How Does A Betrayed Spouse Heal from Cheating?

heal from cheatingAs many of you may know, we are about to depart on an adventure of sorts.  We will be heading out west for about 2 weeks, visiting the Badlands, Yellowstone, Grand Tetons and pretty much wherever we want to go from there.

We will be roughing it for the most part and really don’t have any itinerary or schedules and are going to “wing” this whole thing.  Whatever we want to do we’re going to do it!

This is the first extended vacation that we have taken by ourselves since our kids were born and the first time ever that we have taken more than one week’s vacation at a time. 

We’re a little nervous about the whole thing for a few reasons: 

  • 5000 miles of driving in a car
  • Limited access to showers and bathrooms (a major concern for Linda)
  • Grizzly bears
  • Leaving our 13 year old dog behind with family (she’s been sick)
  • Wondering how many parties our son will have at our house while we’re gone
  • Black bears
  • Are we in good enough shape to tackle some pretty strenuous hikes at higher elevations?
  • The fact that our daughters will be in Europe while we’re gone with their rich aunt.  (Ever see the movie “Taken?”)
  • Will we be ready to kill each other by the time these two weeks are over?
  • Will we ever want to come back home?
  • And…Grizzly and black bears!

We will be taking our I-Pad, I-Phones and a laptop with us and we may check in to see how you all are doing – or we may not.  This may be the last post until we get back, or we may shoot one out to you while we’re out west.  We really don’t know for sure what we’re going to do.

We did want to present you with a post and with links to other posts that should be quite helpful for you though and should have some staying power, just in case you don’t hear from us until we get back.

So…

A week or so ago, one of our readers who we believe considers herself healed, passed along a very lengthy article that details the trauma that infidelity creates.  Now we have dealt with this before of course, but this article is a little different and is also offered from a betrayed person’s perspective.

The article pretty much sums up the way I felt during the early stages following D-day and through much of my own personal healing process.

We wanted to present a portion of the article to you that touches on the author’s ideas on what it takes for a betrayed spouse to heal from cheating. Please read on!

How Does A Betrayed Spouse Heal?

heal from cheatingIt’s important to remember, healing from infidelity is a process – you cannot will yourself into healing. It is okay if you feel angry or upset reading about the process of healing, especially if you are in the crisis stage. You may have an idea of how things “should” be and feel an overwhelming sense of injustice that they are not.

Stop the self-blame cycle. Understand that blaming yourself may give you a sense of control, by believing that if you change something about yourself, infidelity will never happen again. This is very hard when your spouse is most likely saying you are the cause of the infidelity, so you start taking inventory of every part of your character and behavior. Your character and/or behavior CAN NOT CONTROL how your spouse CHOOSES to behave. You cannot be held responsible for how someone chooses to respond to their own feelings – you are not responsible for someone else’s choices. Release yourself of the self-blame burden.

Stop labeling yourself. You are not stupid, naive, too caring, etc. You are the accumulation of your life experiences, this is what makes you uniquely you. No one is without faults, embrace yours as part of who you are, and do not shame yourself for them. If you have a flaw you’re not proud of and it causes YOU disappointment, set out to change it for yourself – not for your spouse.

Grieve the loss of who you were. Trauma changes us, it steels a part of our innocence and is a death to part of who we are. This is one of the very hardest parts of infidelity because it is so unfair. Through someone else’s choice, your life has been profoundly affected, yet you are left holding the consequences of those actions.

  • The Loss Of Innocence: With infidelity, the abuse of trust (a key element of innocence) is redefined from a positive quality that blesses a relationship, to a dangerous activity that is now akin to naiveté. When that happens something precious is lost, but we often view this experience exclusively as a wound to be healed and overlook that it is also a loss to be grieved. Many betrayed spouses wish they could go back in time to recapture their trust in people that existed pre-affair. Before we were assaulted by an affair, many of us believed that people acted according to their words, and trust was, blind faith in that word – trust was something that was given. That sort of innocence was effortless and uncomplicated. After an affair, our assumptions about trust are shattered. We feel ashamed for being so gullible. Reframing how we evaluate trust is part of our healing process.
  • The Loss Of A Dream: Infidelity affects how you see your future. The loss of your dreams is part of how you built the future in your mind. You may feel hopeless about the future because your dreams have been shattered. You feel robbed of the way your life was supposed to unfold.
  • Loss of Safety and Stability: If the loss of innocence is past tense grief, and the loss of a dream is grief for the future, then the loss of stability is grief for today. With the loss of stability, the idea of our own “identity” has been lost. To acknowledge the loss of stability often requires a significant change in self-perception. However, unless you are careful this change can be a time when many lies and self-deprecating concepts enter our sense of identity. This is when we need to be especially careful not to enter the self-blame cycle.

Regain Your Identity

Establish Boundaries: Personal boundaries are guidelines, rules or limits that a person creates to identify for themselves, what are reasonable, safe and permissible ways for other people to behave around him or her, and how he or she will respond when someone steps outside those limits. They are built out of a mix of beliefs, opinions, attitudes, past experiences and social learning.

Assess your world view: The World View is our standard of how things are or should be in the world we live in. If you’ve lived your life believing in the fairness of a just world, convinced that being a good person and doing the right thing will keep you from suffering, you may feel especially resentful and hopeless. The world is an unfair place, there are innocent victims, and your behavior can not control the choices of others. In the beginning of this paradigm shift (a world view that controls the way we understand the world in which we live. A paradigm shift occurs when the dominant paradigm is replaced by a new paradigm), you may want to cling to your old belief system, as it feels safe and predictable. It is natural to want to believe you can control the world around you. Slowly, as you release yourself from trying to control the world around you, you feel a sense of relief that you are the only one you can control.

Work On Self Esteem

Assess your behavior toward yourself. When you feel anxious, depressed or stressed-out your self-talk is likely to become extreme, you’ll be more likely to expect the worst and focus on the most negative aspects of your situation.

  • Identify yourself based on skills and abilities: Instead of identifying yourself by achievements and failures.
  • Identify Your Worth: Many of us have identified our worth based upon the love of the people in our lives. The more you make your psychological identity dependent on your job, your wealth, love or any external object, the more likely you will lose this identity when you lose that external object.
  • Work On Resilience: When you have resilience, you harness inner strength that helps you rebound from a setback or challenge. It is a belief in yourself that you can get through any challenge. Resilience is the ability to overlook what should have been and accept what is. When stress, adversity or trauma strikes, you still experience anger, grief and pain, but you’re able to keep functioning — both physically and psychologically. Resilience isn’t about toughing it out, being stoic or going it alone. In fact, being able to reach out to others for support is a key component of being resilient…
  1. maintaining good relationships with close family members, friends and others
  2. to avoid seeing crises or stressful events as unbearable problems
  3. to accept circumstances that cannot be changed
  4. to develop realistic goals and move towards them
  5. to take decisive actions in adverse situations
  6. to look for opportunities of self-discovery after a struggle with loss
  7. developing self-confidence
  8. to keep a long-term perspective and consider the stressful event in a broader context
  9. to maintain a hopeful outlook, expecting good things and visualizing what is wished
  10.  to take care of one’s mind and body, exercising regularly, paying attention to one’s own needs and feelings.

Transform trauma into something meaningful: Depending on where you are in your healing, this statement likely makes you very angry. You may say to yourself, “I will never assign positive meaning for something so immensely painful!” Don’t mistake this statement to mean – giving credit to the trauma. It means giving credit to yourself, for overcoming the trauma. Using your hard earned lessons to give some meaning to all that you’ve been through. Transforming undeserved hurts and suffering into something that you went through – not in the name of nothing, but to turn the senselessness of it all into something that you can think of as “useful knowledge.” Whether that knowledge benefits you or someone else. If you skip the step of grieving the loss of your innocence, you cannot move into this stage of healing.

We encourage you to read the entire article and then come back and post your thoughts and your experiences in attempting to heal from cheating. 

Since this may (or may not) be the last post we do until we get back, we want to see at least a hundred comments!   

With that said…Git along little dogies, we’re headin’ out West!

 

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291 Responses to How Does A Betrayed Spouse Heal from Cheating?

  1. chiffchaff July 5, 2013 at 5:56 am #

    Have a really brilliant time both of you! enjoy your freedom and don’t watch any movies involving bear attacks before you go.

    • Doug July 5, 2013 at 9:31 am #

      Ha! Indeed. Funny you should say that as we watched a great show that was on Discovery called Bear Stakeout. These guys camped in Alaska for 5 months and documented various bears and their activity. Quite interesting. Sometimes these guys would be filming and these huge grizzlies would be no more than 10 feet away. They had to be peeing their pants.

  2. forcryin'outloud July 5, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    I get the bear fear. A few years back I was hiking with a friend and our kids when we heard a VERY large breathing or chuffing sound directly behind us in the woods and then pounding on the ground. Nothing came of it but I picked up a foot long stick and my friend started laughing asking me what the heck is that going to do. My advice take better protection than that. LOL!
    Have an awesome vacation and winging it usually leads to the best trips!!! Stay safe!

    • Doug July 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm #

      That would be scary. We’re gonna buy some bear spray and carry it while hiking. Hope that we never have to use it though.

    • Doug July 8, 2013 at 9:52 am #

      I know what you mean. Several years ago Linda and I were backpacking in Colorado and had a wonderful hike only to arrive at our backcountry campsite to see a sign reading “Warning – Recent Heavy Bear Activity…” I don’t think we slept a wink that night!

  3. Hopeful July 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    We had better not see any posts from you. Enjoy your time!!!!

  4. Lynsey July 6, 2013 at 7:29 am #

    Doug & Linda, have a great vacation. Sounds like a wonderful trip. You two deserve it !

  5. Paula July 6, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

    The trip sounds divine. I’m sure you will enjoy! (Bears aside, ;-) )

    The world view comment is the most relevant to me. I am not so naive to think that bad things don’t happen to good people, but for some reason, maybe I thought that excluded me, lol! That is the thing that still infuriates me – I was so damn self-sacrificing (far too much, in retrospect, although I think I kind of knew it at the time, too, my partner used to tell me how much he appreciated me, and how he was so pleased I was not high maintenance, like most of our friend’s and their wives) – ring any bells, mothers? – that it makes me SOO pissed off that this happened to my beautiful 21 year (at the time of D-day) love story. The OW, an old friend of mine, has never sacrificed anything, always me, me, me, and she go to walk in and take a dump on my life that I so carefully constructed, without any consequences to her. My sense of justice is so offended – STILL! I know it is of no help to feel this way, but how the heck do you stop feelings??? I have found, with research, counselling, etc, you don’t you just find a way to live with and around them.

    Interestingly, the tips to rebuild self confidence/self esteem, whilst on the money, are pretty infuriating, too! I was a pretty confident, reasonably out-going individual prior to D-day. I don’ think I had any real self esteem issues, I was grounded and confident. I have struggled to rebuild in the four years since. Don’t get me wrong, I have forced myself to take steps I would have never taken if the apocalypse had never occurred. I know I am strong, have always known that, but this sure tests me daily, to this day – and I have accepted that this is my new life – doesn’t mean I like it! The loss of the dream/innocence and lack of safety have been especially hard on me, I guess I am no different to most, I truly, madly, deeply, SO passionately, loved my partner, we talked a lot about affairs, and how to avoid hurting each other over the years, about honesty, truth in conveying feelings, both good and bad, what to do if there was ever an error of judgement, etc, somehow maybe I thought we had affair proofed us? Who knows, my sense of safety, especially emotional and sexual safety, is forever ruined. I recall reading Not Just Friends (Glass) with the outcomes of several woman post-affair, long term, those who healed their marriages beautifully, those who eventually chose to end theirs, or their partner ended it. One of the women chose never to engage in another relationship, lived a full life otherwise (is that an oxymoron?) and I remember thinking, “wow, that seems extreme, poor thing, to be THAT hurt, FOREVER,” but, guess what, I truly believe that is how I am – that is what I feel now, four years deep, I never want “love” again, I had the best love, the MOST wonderful man and relationship, and even that wasn’t enough somehow. I will never put myself out there again, I have read a lot of work on vulnerability (Brene Brown, etc) and intellectually I know that you have to, but I just can’t put my heart back on the line again, I did that completely, and it just hurt far too much, so much I nearly didn’t survive. My choice is my sanity and my children’s well-being.

    The tips here are wonderful, and if you haven’t already worked this all out, please do read and absorb, as they are key to your personal growth and survival going forward.

    • Blue July 7, 2013 at 12:28 am #

      Paula, I truly hope you are wrong about yourself loving again, be it the father of your children or someone else. It can never be the exact same love but it can still be good love. Maybe I’m just a romantic and want that in my own life but I feel you have so much good love to give a man and so many men out there would appreciate and be grateful for that love. I hope you don’t condem yourself for life denying this special gift of intimacy not only for someone else but for yourself. I hope you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face:) you are far too precious for that! I want for you what I want for myself.

    • tryinghard July 8, 2013 at 11:23 am #

      Paula

      Exactly!!! There is NO way I would open myself up to this kind of hurt again. Plus there are soooo many con artists out there and I would be just the kind of dumbass they were looking for! I just don’t think I could live without having sex again and well it is kind of nice if you somewhat like or trust that person. UGH why can’t a woman be more like a man? said Henry Higgins :)

      • Paula July 9, 2013 at 6:41 am #

        Blue, I didn’t mean for anyone to feel sorry for me – it is a choice, and one I am becoming okay with, I don’t want “different” love – I feel like it would all be “less” than I had – rightly or wrongly, it just is not a priority, I am completely okay about singleness, and do not want another relationship, that was probably my point, that we all end up in a different place, and I know most people want a loving relationship – but I have had that, and it was wonderful, and I don’t need “less,” just like the lady in the Shirley Glass story who also chose singledom.

        tryinghard, I was so like you, we had a truly wonderful sexual relationship, twenty-three years of AMAZING! After D-day, when we both felt we would recover fully, we had an EVEN better eight months or so (hysterical bonding) and for two years post D-day, our sex life was really great fun. We were a VERY adventurous couple, trying and enjoying most of what you could name, or imagine, and after two years, it just stopped, and I no longer have any sexual feeling, whatsoever! It is bizarre, I got my hormone levels checked, I have tried sex therapy, and grieved the loss of my once voracious appetite for sex, very, very badly. My problems occurred because of: a previous rape, the fact that he was the only man I had ever trusted enough to be sexual with, and an inability to stop the mind movies of the two of them engaged in all kinds of adventurous sexual acts – despite the fact that there was no adventure, none whatsoever, apparently happened, as she is without imagination, or “sexiness” (he kept asking himself what the heck the attraction was, why was he carrying this on, as she was so useless in the sack, lol) – and with the STIs contracted, there was a lot of “mind stuff” about him engaging (especially orally) with her, and then me – vivid mind movies of truly disgusting things. This is my pathway to survival, the only way I have found to breathe, to give it all up. It does seem strange that it took two years before this disgust became so huge – I had no problems at all in the first two years, none whatsoever. But, it is not all sad, this is just my personal journey.

        • Blue July 9, 2013 at 10:14 am #

          Paula, it was out of line for me to push love. I do get what you are going through. Sometimes, I just think if I say it that’s the way it will be, it’s me donning my rose coloured glasses.

          You, like I are very much the same in some ways. The ‘movies’ playing over and over, easier said than done to erase them. If there were a magic pill….

          I also think that you (and I) have gone through PTSD. Shock and denial has a way of keeping you breathing and moving. I’m having a bit of a low day today so kind of feeling like you are with the ‘sc*w love’ I am a bit manic and just want to stabliize. Good Luck to all of us.

          • Paula July 9, 2013 at 5:12 pm #

            Hi Blue, not out of line, at all! I value your take on this, and I think it is quite a logical, and caring one. Most people want love, even after being hurt. I guess I was just putting across my story, another viewpoint from four years out – an alternative for those, like me, who really struggle with healing. I am glad it doesn’t happen like this to most, most people seem to be able to heal with romantic love still a big part of their lives, I just had to find another way, as it was tearing at the very fabric of who I am to keep chasing the elusive trust, romance, and true, decent forgiveness in the way that I guess we all think we would like to forgive. I have forgiven my partner for his actions, I understand the very sad and lonely place he got to in order for him to choose to act this way, but understanding that did not “heal me.” He has really great understanding of what happened, and why, he is ashamed and surprised that he took that path, rather than talking it all out with me, he just got trapped in a cycle of extreme doubt and pretty typical male midlife crisis questioning of his whole raison d’etre, and typically male, tried to “solve it all” himself, VERY POORLY! I believe he has done, and continues to do, the work, and he will never make such selfish and damaging choices again. However, I am dealing with a new diagnosis of a (hopefull fully treatable) cervical cancer, directly due to the HPV virus I contracted during his affair, and that makes things a bit tough, I think he has forgiven himself for that aspect, but I don’t think I have forgiven him for THAT part of the selfishness, not to choose to use protection, so that, the “dumb” party, ie me, had a way of protecting myself from disease.

            Sorry your day is a bad one, but, as we all know, “tomorrow” will be better :-)

            tryinghard, yes, I hear you, but don’t panic! If you are both doing the work, you will get to the place you need to get to – very zen of me, but true, if that is apart, you will mourn, but you will know you both did your best, and worked hard, and (more likely) if you stay together, you will be okay, too, because we all have CHOICE, and you will have chosen to stay, for the right reasons. I believe the change is that once we felt secure that “staying” was a given (pre-affair) because of the love, but now staying is a daily choice – and one we would rather not have to make daily, lol! Initially it was definitely the emotional aspect of the affair that ripped at my heart, but as time went by, the sexual aspect just tore at me, self doubt, lack of belief in my own sensuality, all that jazz (she is slimmer and more athletic looking than my hourglass shape – hey, I look great for three kids, curves and 45 years – quite the sex pot, lol, not really overweight, maybe a couple of kilos, but no more, and I run almost daily, but I AM curvy, I have great legs and luscious boobs and booty, but a small waist, a true hourglass!)

            TTW, when you say your H’s affair was not emotional, does that mean he only met her for no-strings sex? I wasn’t quite sure? I agree with your feelings, I will never love mine the way I once did, either, BUT, we have a wonderful working friendship, we still have two high school kids at home, and we co-parent, and attend activities together, he is the best friend I have ever had, and I haven’t lost that, yay! He still tells me that he loves me, daily, but I can no longer reply in kind. But, for now, I am in slightly less turmoil, because of the choices I make daily, FOR ME, and that is something I never did before, four other people came first, but now I try to choose ME at least sometimes.

            I started back at uni yesterday! Just two papers this semester, doing a completely different degree to the study of my youth. I converted my full time job to a part time one, I have a long commute to the uni (I felt I needed to attend, at least for the first semester back, to get my act together, distance learning was not really an option for this lazy study!) and I was TERRIFIED! New referencing systems, new technology, new library and protocols to negotiate, aaargh! But I have worked out how to get the help I need to stay on track, or when I get stuck – I never asked for help as a young law and commerce student, to my great detriment, so I am approaching this differently – and it is HARD for me to ask for help, I am outwardly confident, but inside a terrified puppy! But I have identified my weakness, and am determined to do it better this time around. Feel the fear, and do it anyway – I know most don’t get it, why this fear, but it is genuine, and I am miles out of my comfort zone here! But first day down, phew…

            • Tryinghard July 9, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

              Paula
              I know your fear. I went back to university when my children were in school. I was scared shitless. The first time I made an A I thought there was some kind of mistake. After the third and fourth A I thought I must have the dumbest professors in the world. It took a while to figure out hey I’m NOT stupid. I even made the deans list a couple times. I worked my ass off to get a double major in business and french. It was the best thing I ever did. After DDay I went out to CO Nd hiked BY MYSELF. I was scarred shitless. I was so out of my comfort zone. I hiked in snow up to my knees in June, on rock slides and through streams. I saw bear and moose and not another human being for six hours. I felt I had conquered the world and I knew as long as I had ME I would be ok. It took major life events to do these two things for me but it proved that I really am stronger and smarter than I thought I was. You can do this and I’ll bet you’ll do it with honors! Rock on sister. By the way I have 14 years on you. Just sayin…..

              • Strengthrequired July 9, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

                Th, you go girl too, what a accomplishment you have made.
                Our self confidence takes a beating, but knowing that we can overcome all sorts of obstacles is more empowering.
                Funny you say that about thinking maybe your not so stupid sfter all. I kept finding excuses to not make that first step into studying again, thinking o myself, what if I’m not smart enough, it’s been so long since being at school, I didn’t want to waste a heap of money for failing what I set out to accomplish, I kept thinking it will just make me feel even more worthless.
                What I was failing to see, was I’m not stupid, I had ambition, I still do, I have life experiences unlike when I was at school.
                I am smart, just because I chose to be a stay at home mum to be with my children, doesn’t mean I’m stupid and lost my ability to learn and grow. I was scared of failing, scared of failing my h, my children and myself, like I felt I failed my h and our marriage. Yet it wasn’t me who failed him, or our marriage, it wasn’t me who put our marriage on the line it was him.
                I’m not the failure, I made myself out to be.

              • Paula July 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm #

                tryinghard, that is SOOO cool – my little brother (41) who thought he was “dumb” just graduated from uni this past semester, with an A average overall of his 24 papers – 88.84% – top of his class! Inspirational. He was a really good, French-trained chef, but went back with a stay at home wife, at the time, baby son, and since then, a baby girl just born a few months back, to do an Applied Science degree – I think he is amazing! Interestingly, he and I are more “successful” (both personally, and professionally) than our other brother, the middle one, who was a scholarship student, and pretty much a genius with stats and algebra. Life experience counts for so much xxx

                • Strengthrequired July 15, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

                  Congratulations to your brother Paula, that’s wonderful. I agree life experience helps.

            • Strengthrequired July 9, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

              Paula. You are an inspiration, you are a strong woman, I’m sorry you are battlng cervical cancer, knowing that it was caused by your h affair due to std’s, just living with that in yoir mind everyday would be excruciating.
              I can only imagine the guilt your h would feel and honestly so he should. He took your life in his hands and didn’t think twice, for that I’m sorry.
              I can understand how you arrived at the decision you did, parting ways with yoir h, but I’m also happy to hear that you both are still best friends. I truly wish you all the strength in the world for you to best that terrible disease, and a long and happy life.
              I have started study too just recently. For me however I chose distant learning as childcare costs s fortune. I have been looking deep down at what I want for my life, to help my family, my h, our business, I have been looking at wanting to help others.
              So my decision was to first work on my accounting skills, then once I am happy, knowing that I have confidence within myself and what I can do, at the same time working better at helping my h with his business, I will then look at becomin a counsellor, so I will be looking at doing a bachelor degree.
              I figured if I can do this study at home, become self disciplined, at th same time learning what I need to first, then I will know that I have the confidence at further my study into helping others.
              I think my confidence has been shattered for so long, that I needed to really look at what I can do to gain it back again.
              I am wanting to rebuild my life, learn to smile again, without feeling like I’m forcing that smile. When I find myself, it won’t be for my h or or my children it will be for me. After being a stay at home mum raising our children for more than a decade, being left in a position like when my h told me he found his new love and he no longer loved me, knowing I had no income that will support my children, knowing that my working skills are out dated, knowing that my marriage is not as safe as I thought. Thinking what am I going to do, yet determined that if my h left I was not going to drown and not work on supporting my children myself without his help, I knew that part of me was still there, that independent person I was when met him, that person that wasn’t going to let herself be dependent on another person. She is still there, and she won’t let a situation like this happen again, where she worries about not having an income to support her family. I won’t be put in that position again.
              My h has told me how his “cousin it” will always want him, Even though she knows she can’t have him, the truth is, I will be prepared to wave goodbye to my marriage if he ever sways into her direction again, or to any ow’s direction for that matter. I will be self sufficient, and in no need for his help.

              • Paula July 9, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

                Go us!!! Just goes to show, all these smarts, all this sex appeal, all this taking care of everyone, and still somehow we manage to feel like shit about us because of SOMEONE ELSE’S selfish choices. And the worst of all of that is, most of us already knew how wonderful we were! The logical and the emotional parts of our psyches are amazing (and incredibly frustrating, lol.)

                Some of my frustration comes from the fact that the OW in our case grew up with me, and has never had to think of anyone but herself, she has never had a long term relationship, so seemingly peered into my life, and thought, “cool, I’ll have some of that.” and helped herself. Under normal circumstances, that would not have been a problem, as my partner would have never looked sideways, but we had a set of extenuating circumstances (stressors) that lined up perfectly to make him incredibly vulnerable, and me so busy I could barely breathe. Not a good time to bring a known narcissist back into my life – one thing I have learnt, some “friends” cannot, and will not ever be trustworthy, and I kind of knew it about her, but I trusted HIM. Silly me ;-)

                • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 5:13 am #

                  We had stresses here too that made my h very vulnerable, he too would never have looked sideways any other time. This ow was my h cousin, who had just left her h, needed someone to listen to her sob story, someone to help her with her children and finances, just so happened my h was the sucker she chose.
                  If only our h knew how to deal with their midlife crisis, their stresses with work, etc instead of falling victim to some woman that was only looking out for herself.
                  I trusted my h too, hopefully I will learn too again, that will take a long time.

            • tryingtoowife July 10, 2013 at 5:59 am #

              Wow girls! TH, Paula, SR – Any doubt about strength here? NO. You are amazing people! I have not gone back to Uni, but took a new language course during this hard time of healing, and now I am mastering one more language! I have been reading books like a good’un! It has been my refuge!
              TH – this is one more mountain to hike and you will know when you get to the top which view is the best one for you!
              SR – Small steps and certain are the best, one at the time, but surely and certainly. Fear not, success is on you way.
              Paula, I am so sorry to hear about your diagnose. Things like this, put into perspective all the rest. Go, go girl. You really rock!!!! I will be rooting for you!
              And yes. According to my husband, he never loved his whore. She was merely someone who boost his self-esteem, by chasing him tirelessly, and offering no string attached sex (she is single),but the whore changed her mind and fell in love with him, and decided to remove me out of the way, so she could have him! In her sick mind, I was the problem! He hates her now! But, one day, he threw away all we had for this piece of trash! We were still having sex by the way! He claims that he never told her that he loved her. But, by accepting her, in spite of us, he gave her power to believe he loved her. Intensified by the lies and sneaking around to be with her. We had a VERY busy life, and I nearly went mad trying to keep ours and our children lives in order, while holding a full time job too. By doing that, I freed time for him to spent with his whore! He also did not use protection, stupid! He hit midlife crisis ,as he also dealt with lots of family issues, death of father and brother, and lost the plot. It is the usual story here. Well you know the rest.

              • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 9:24 am #

                TTW, when my h was overseas starting his ea, while I was st home ltaking care of our children, painting our house, doing the bookwork for his business, as well as wondering why he wasn’t answering my calls, or my messages and when he did was so cold and uncaring all of a sudden, he would just say to me, that he has lost the plot, he wanted to forget all his worries, so he just partied and would just loose the plot. His words.
                So I guess it must have been love for the ow in my case lol, as sh was part of his losing the plot. What way to start a relationship,. Thank god when we got together and fell in love, none of us had lost the plot. What does that say about these ow in our lives, they could only get our h when they were not themselves, someone who tried to forget their worries by drowning themselves into someone else’s troubles, so they could feel like a hero, and in return be chased after like a school boy being chased by school girls in the play ground.
                Crazy, sheer madness.

            • Blue July 10, 2013 at 9:12 am #

              Paula, You and so many others on this site have been the ones who have given me strength to go on. It’s scarey yet comforting knowing I am not alone. It’s sad yet eye opening how many of our stories are similar in so many ways. I AM SO SORRY YOUR PHYSICAL HEALTH HAS BEEN COMPROMISED! (I know you don’t want that kind of pity but I would want someone to feel that for me, the full trauma of someone elses bad choices)

              I did not get an std, yet for one whole year after DD he denied even having sex with this subdinate coworker. I was in huge denial, he would actually yell his response that NO he did not have sex with her and I had to believe and trust him or what was the point! Then bam, after one of my WTF happened then meltdowns, he told me that he did in fact did have sex and didn’t use protection. For the first time he cried like a baby. He was only too willing to get tested for STD’s. I stayed…again….but honestly it is a day to day fight within myself to have any respect for him. I just had to give it my best before I gave up on our family. He’s a great dad, and really tries now to be a great husband, but deep down it scares, saddens and repulses me to think he’s kind of just a half wit even though he holds a fairly good position with our government and is charming and well liked.

              On a higher note, it’s most of you women and men here that are trying to keep your families together, even if apart, trying hard to rise above other people’s crappy behaviour that truly inspires me to carry on. In my bleakest moments YOU PEOPLE I HAVE RESPECT AND DEEP ADMIRATION FOR. Maybe this is sad to say, but you’re some of the few people I would trust.

              • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 9:56 am #

                Blue, where else can you find a group of people that you can truly trust, than on a ea site, with bs’s all trying hard to keep their families together, others fighting for what is the most important part of their lives.
                We all find strength we never expected to have, we all find strength here as well from each other, and if there is anything that we can take out of our experiences is that ” we are not alone, and that there are people out there that don’t believe in hurting anyone”.
                You ladies and gents have been a godsend to my life, when there was no one else to turn to, when feeling alone in my living nightmare.
                So I want to thank everyone here too, you are all amazing.

                • tryingtoowife July 10, 2013 at 11:28 am #

                  Blue. If was not for Linda and Doug putting their hearts open here, and all the others that posts, I would have given up days after the DDay. In fact I left for a month to put my mind in order, and when I was back husband showed me this site. I then learned that I was not alone in my pain and confusion (sad!) and that it was possible to survive this. Then I promised to give him a chance. I have been very careful since, and come to this site often to get knowledge, support and strength. Sometime I stay away for a while, but somehow it does not last “for good”. I trust and talk about it with no one else but here. So yes, I only trust you people here too. Thanks for your posts blue, because you are usually full of support and positive. But in the end, we are just human and we have to take our time. I just hope that we all did not have to live in pain. But this too will pass. We know were our strength lies.

                  • Blue July 11, 2013 at 8:24 am #

                    You are spot on TTW that we are all lucky that Linda and Doug give their time to do this site and tell their story and listen to ours. I get so much from hearing other’s stories and advice and how so many of this group really supports each other, very heartwarming since none of us have met.
                    And thanks for your nice comment also.

              • overwhelmed July 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm #

                This needs to be repeated again and again,

                On July 10, 2013, BLUE wrote:
                “On a higher note, it’s most of you women and men here that are trying to keep your families together, even if apart, trying hard to rise above other people’s crappy behaviour that truly inspires me to carry on. In my bleakest moments YOU PEOPLE I HAVE RESPECT AND DEEP ADMIRATION FOR. Maybe this is sad to say, but you’re some of the few people I would trust.”

                Thank you for this Blue. I believe my marriage would be in a very different place right now had I found this site just a few months earlier. :(

        • tryinghard July 9, 2013 at 10:25 am #

          Paula
          This is exactly what I am afraid of that I will have wasted another two plus years ( including his 4 years with the OW) only to say it’s over. Sometimes I look at our long marriage and wonder if we really have reached the end. I’ve known him since I was 15. We’ve been through a lot in our many years together, mostly good and some bad but I looked at it as a pretty normal marriage. I’m lucky as the sex part of the affair hasn’t really affected me that much. It’s the emotional betrayal and the things he told her about me that I find reprehensible. I think the sex in the beginning was pretty heady but he too has said it was nothing great. He was very nervous the whole time and well had “performance” issues. His goal was to impress in all ways, made him feel good about himself. That is a pretty serious character flaw that I don’t think anyone can overcome very easily especially for a more “mature” person. I’m sure part of it was a mid-life crisis mixed with parent issues and boredom in the marriage. All that makes for a pretty sad cocktail!!!

          I go forward everyday, one day at a time and watch his actions. As I’ve said before I will not put up with any kind of disrespect anymore. I too would be just as happy alone. I would figure it out. Not saying it would be easy but neither is this.

          I don’t see you as sad at all. I see a strong woman who has made a decision for herself. All we want is peace, one way or another. I’m sure the second chapter in your life will be just as fulfilling as the first, with or without another romantic relationship. Thanks for answering.

        • tryingtoowife July 9, 2013 at 12:39 pm #

          Hey Paula! As painful as it is to admit, even though I am still together, I will never love my husband as I used to! So, never mind someone new in my life if this does not work! Death of dreams, loss of innocence and Safety and Stability, I feel it deeply! I understand what you are saying about having had a great relationship prior to the shit hitting the fan! I also believed we had a love story here. People used to comment on our connection, and up to when he forgot me in his life, It might have been right, but it changed into this monster that ate us! I also have done pretty much in this healing road and I am running out of ideas, steam…. what is next?!
          As trying hard said. I also still take one day at the time, one decision at the time and so I go. With some good days, and hoping the bad ones pass quickly. Even though my husband’s affair was not emotional (so I was told by him, how will I ever know for sure!), I struggle with everything, the lies, lack of care, the betrayal and the mind movies, that are on and off, intermittently, it weakens me! He tries hard to show he is changed and I am looking at him, I see it! When we are good, we are very good, but when is bad, it is unbearable!
          Good luck Paula. You show to be a strong person, so I really wish you happiness in this new life. Hand on my heart, we have been here for a very long time, hope this is the beginning of something new and good for you. Wishing you all the best.

  6. Blue July 7, 2013 at 1:08 am #

    Linda and Doug, WooHoo! Your trip all alone together sounds exciting! I would advise a whistle to scare off the black bears and a rifle to scare off the grizzlies. Also bug dope srayed selectively so you don’t get eaten alive when you just might duck behind a bush together on one of your hikes for some quick lovin’! and I hope you giggle together about ‘Who would’ve thought we’d be ducking behind the bush for a bit of lovin’ and pawing each other at the age of 50!’ I remember my husband and I doing something slightly risque outside and he beamed, ‘I’m not ashamed because you’re my wife and I would be ok to get caught with you!’ It warms my heart thinking about those words, especially now since the EX-OW (who btw made a promise to me without my asking and broke it within a year) just emailed us to say she HAS to take a job that may have contact with my husband. We both literally cried!

    I do hope you get to experience this wonderful feeling of ‘In it together and proud of that’. SAFE & EXCITING TRAVELS !!

    • Doug July 8, 2013 at 5:12 am #

      Thanks Blue, Nothing better than a little nature sex, btw ;-)

  7. suziesuffers July 8, 2013 at 1:33 am #

    Paula….I’m there with you…I almost didn’t survive the last affair…and not sure some days if survival is even what I want. I was just blessed with a wonderful new job….couldn’t dream of a better set up and money, but it’s dimmed by the loss of my marriage..He didn’t go off with the last of the many he engaged with….he chose a new one and is living with her and we’ve gotten divorced. He chose to divorce because I was so obsessed with talking about the affairs….he left…Well, not sure why he left..he never spoke to me when he suddenly after months of me talking and talking about the pain and how stuck I was….he just left one day…even though he had just told me I was the love of his life. He is believed to have borderline or narcissism….ptsd…ADD….recovering alcoholic/addict possible sex addict….Gee, I didn’t dodge that bullet….it hit me square in the head. But thru 35 years with this man….5 in sobriety, but engaged in serial cheating during that time with someone in AA or Alanon, I guess he finally escaped and has divorced me…moved in with the latest woman to support him since he rarely has any money and is now on social security….was an architect that never really earned any money and relied on me as the bread winner…but now he’s a part time security guard to make just enough to survive..he never was much of a worker and always had get rich quick scam stewing…but never did get rich. And you SAY …this is what I’m missing….problem was there is this charming, gentle soul that I feel in love with…but something took over his brain. I hurt because I wasn’t a perfect wife in my reactions to the abusive behavior, but I always hoped he would suddenly “get it”. I miss a relationship and the closeness to that someone special…but I don’t want to jump from one to another like my ex in order to “deal” with the issues….It’s a rough ride….GET professional help. My ex refused to be honest…transparent…or get help…all he thought he needed to do was talk to AA guys!!! There lives are all screwed up….

  8. EyesOpened July 8, 2013 at 2:38 am #

    Doug and Linda – Enjoy your bear hunt. You’re not scared. You’re gonna catch a big one! :-) Missing you already.

    • Doug July 8, 2013 at 9:54 am #

      Just so we’re the ones not being caught!

  9. Patsy50 July 8, 2013 at 10:10 am #

    Linda and Doug— Have a wonderful FUN filled vacation!

  10. tryinghard July 8, 2013 at 11:19 am #

    Linda and Doug

    I will be thinking of you two and your great adventure. I love the big cities but I love the physical challenges of being in the wilderness too. I am such a girlie girl, when I do those things it really takes me out of my comfort zone and gives me confidence. I would love to try the whole camping/hiking thing but I am not sure my marriage could handle it yet. He might just feel tempted to push me off that cliff, hahaha, he already did emotionally who knows what he would do physically!!! For now I think hiking and then hotel is best. HAVE FUN!!!! Wish you could post some pics of it.

    • Doug July 8, 2013 at 11:49 am #

      Thanks Trying. We’ve had many hard and physically demanding adventures over the years and they were a bitch while we were doing them, but we always felt a sense of accomplishment afterwards. Don’t be afraid to get outside your comfort zone!

      I was actually thinking of uploading some pics too.

  11. overwhelmed July 9, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    Wow, what an amazing thread. I sit here wallowing in my own misery and this thread really hit home. Actually, I’m not really wallowing, that was for dramatic effect ; )

    So many of you here are struggling with situations so much more difficult that mine, and you are all navigating it brilliantly. Every one here is an inspiration to someone else and that is beautiful. Until now, I haven’t felt “qualified” to comment on other threads, especially in the forum, but now I realize there is no such qualification. Share your experience and the knowledge you’ve gained and it just may help someone else get through the next hour.

    Best $10/month I’ve ever spent.

    Linda and Doug, I hope you have a truly spectacular trip. Nekked in the woods!!! Oh, that takes me back. W and I got caught once when we were just 20-something kids. We’ll have to do that again, God willing.

    • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 5:26 am #

      Overwelmed, You definately deserve and qualify to have your say in all threads. Your right we all may have something to say that just may help someone else.

  12. suzie suffers July 10, 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Paula, I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles. You husband deserves to feel guilt…that would be the easiest part of fighting this disease…..All of our spouses were selfish….mine too swore he used protection….untile after months after asking him and nagging him and talking about the fears of some disease we might not know about if he wasn’t careful……….he finally confessed that he hadn’t used protection and she had revealed to him some VERY risky behavior on her birthday in Las Vegas!!! STUPID….but it was just a continuation of the lies he had already told…..and at some level I can almost understand that most of these spouses are very immature and selfish…and along with that comes the little boy afraid of the punishment of being a very bad boy!!! Avoidance of that responsibility puts US at risk….He may have guilt that pops in occassionally…but you live with this disease forever. I talked to a therapist he had gone to….without the therapist revealing anything specific, I had told him that I was over viligant in asking questions about the affairs….I couldn’t let it go…of course, his behavior was still interacting with women at AA….always looking for the hookup….at least that’s how I saw it…maybe he was changing but at some level, but I didn’t see it…of course, our intuition and belief in ourselves is gone….I question everything i have said and done from the day I found out about the first affair…and second….and third….and fourth…..and all the “dates” he had searching for the affair…..there is nothing left of my self esteem…but after the last EA/PA….getting over the sex was bad…all the questions about my body came up…all my self esteem issues…I was about 40 lbs over weight…stress..I was also the breadwinner…We still had a very good sex life…I thought….but maybe it was just alot of testosterone…not me…I was just the backup plan to his other women…after 30+ years of marriage..the EA portion just compiled the pain….not only was I not good enough with my body….but WHO I was wasn’t good enough because he found someone that fulfilled that for him…making him feel better about himself than I could ever I guess….He constantly seemed to be on the lookout for the next woman…..he reconciled with me after the last major affair……..but he didn’t want to be transparent or honest…it was more about what I was DEMANDING he do than what he was willing to do….His attitude was get over it …I have…after all SH*T happens….and his MOM, the 14 marriages religious addict, condoned every affair…even “blessing” each women he was finally HAPPY with because she knew how hard it was being with a Bi*ch like me…she even met a couple of the women he was having the affairs with and would make comments to him about how nice these women were….often they were alcoholics before he became sober…but back to his therapist….I was telling the therapist how I was constantly probing for the “truth” and my husband avoided it (think there was alot more women stories in the closet he didn’t want to reveal…i only knew about 10+ sexual encounters/affairs that came to the light when he got sober (5 of the affairs were when he was sober)….well, his counselor said he was of the mind set that discussing details about the affairs was not what he thought was healing and it should just be talking about what was going to happen in the future…he didn’t seem to support transparency or honesty because that was an invasion of his privacy!!! The therapist was saying that details and info about the affairs would just make me feel worse and stick with me, so I should have abandoned any knowledge seeking…but I told him that my spouse revealing to me that this woman/women had flaws and were not as perfect as I imagined….or as my spouse first professed to me….because the last one was perfect to him when she first dumped him….she was still perfect to him in his eyes….she was his soul mate dream come true…only after 2 months……….WELL….the therapist said to me….he has lied to you…why do you think he is telling the truth about the negatives about the woman…maybe just to minimize and make you feel better about how he felt because he saw it hurt you so he lies about how he really felt and instead is telling you that she wasn’t that good in bed….that she wasn’t always that nice….ect. BOY….DID THAT BURST MY BUBBLE…..So YA…..How does ANYONE ever trust their spouse again…mine divorced me….he had been pursuing another women…now in Alanon….then he found another great codependent after the last one in Alanon…and as soon as the divorce was final….he was moving into her place….since he’s now on SS retirement…and broke with his 50,000 in cc debit…..but he professes that this jewish south american women treats his like a king….not like how his wife treated him….that the best thing about south american women is they treat american men like kings…not like how american women treat their men…..so I’ve failed again?? Will love evade me….like Paula states…I’m not sure it’s that I don’t want love…..I have such an attachment to my husband……..but codependents are glue to a narcissist….and when I ended as his supply I was dumped (I had gotten laid off from my job after 16 years and unemployment had just run out…I was with my mom during her cancer surgery and he secretly left when I was outof town…so I had a major coward too….He NEVER spoke to me after that day….but of course, he had already put out bait to catch the next one….and He caught one alright…amazing how they can make up feel like we are worthless and unlovable….whilst this person we devoted our lives to was really the immature selfish person we denied was there inside this person we fell in love with…..

    So Paula….my heart goes out to you…and to all the other wonderful women and men on this site that are struggling or have moved to the point of healing…either because their true self confident selves are emerging with or without their spouses….I want that ….I want that inner peace that I have value…not by how I look or don’t….not by how much money I earned (luckily am now divorced and don’t need to support him with alimony because I wasn’t employed…but NOW just got a job with 6 figures!!! WE are smart!!!)….but for who I am…I want to be cherished for WHO I AM…..even though at this point in my life…I DON’T KNOW WHO I AM…OR WHETHER I AM WORTHY OF THAT LEVEL OF LOVE……..Good luck everyone on the journey we are forced to endure to get back to ourselves….to be who God meant for us to be without the projections and baggage our spouses have placed on us and we have accepted as our own!! This site has been a staple for the last 3 years…sometimes holding me up…when I thought I couldn’t go on another day because of the pain…..THANK YOU!!!

    • overwhelmed July 10, 2013 at 8:12 am #

      Worthy? WORTHY? Oh no, you’ve got it all wrong. The only ones that are not “worthy of that level of love” as you put it are our cheating spouses. We, the ones who stood by them as they tore our lives and families apart are the ones that are worthy of limitless love because that’s what we are capable of and we have all shown it.

      So please, don’t ever question your own worth.

      • Blue July 10, 2013 at 9:35 am #

        You got that right Overwhelmed!

        It’s a freak of nature how the BS is the one to feel the most worthless when we are gaging our worth on someone who sneaks around like a slimey rodent and the loser affair partner pushing them to be that way. WTF!!!!! though when egos are stroked people get pretty puffed up and confident with themselves neglecting how shallow and creepy they may become.

        And, that’s why they are soulmates. I asked a spiritual friend what a soulmate really was and her take was there are good and bad ones for your. The bad ones can bring out the worst character in you making you selfish, heartless, seedy and greedy etc. So next time anyones CS calls thier AP a soulmate this is food for thought.

        • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 9:47 am #

          Well blue, our cs’s surely met their matches then, they al became greedy, selfish, liars, heartless and mean, and only though of themselves. It amazes me how it just takes one person, to either make or break another.

        • chiffchaff July 10, 2013 at 12:42 pm #

          My H frequently said that the OW ‘brought out the best in him’ and when I was in more confident times I replied with something like ‘well, if that’s the best you are I want nothing to do with you’, which usually shut him up with that stupidity.
          My H even emailed her after the second Dday thanking her for the positive changes that she had inspired in him. what he didn’t add was that those changes were lying to his family, his parents, his best friends, his boss, his employer and himself.

          • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

            Chiffchaff, I would like to think we brought the best out in our spouses. We have had these long term marriages, still loving our spouses through all the ups and downs, all the good and bad, we accepted them for who they were.
            If after all those years our spouses think that the om/ow brought the best out in them, then that just shows you how deluded they are really. When he traits that come out of our spouses are becoming liars, cheats, careless and heartless, hurting those that have loved them wholeheartedly, then they are definately not traits that we have brought out in them, we showed them a lifelong path of goodness, it is the other person that has shown them the traits that are undesirable, bad behaviors , insensitivity, shown them how to lack in good morals and self esteem, if that is someone they are happy to have known, someone that has helped ruin their families lives, then, maybe they deserve each other, because a decent person wouldn’t sway another to be unfaithful, to hurt those closest to them, their spouse or their children.
            I can say that if our spouses have truly looked into the person they had become when looking in the mirror, then they wouldn’t need to hide, they wouldn’t feel shame and remorse, they wouldn’t prefer to just forget what they have done.

            • overwhelmed July 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

              This is beautiful. I am saving a copy of this. Thank you SR.

          • Disappointed July 11, 2013 at 1:14 am #

            My H talks like the OW was his muse and made him feel alive again. Said I depressed him and made him feel dead. What is so ironic is that all things he says to me are projections of what he does. I haven’t been able to find a way to break the pattern. the ow is divorcing and will soon be available. and they are setting the stage for a reunion in the public eye, but the truth is almost 2 years in private. a friend total me tonight that they don’t want to hear about ho I am a victim any more. that I like it and accept it. the basically hung up on me. I did not ask for this. I did nothing to deserve this. and I am not the one doing wrong. why does everyone just want me to shut up, kick him out and start over? how come I can empathize? This pain is millions of times worse than the death of my father and people so flippantly say ditch him and start over a great new life.

            • livingonafence July 11, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

              Disappointed, I say this as gently and compassionately as is humanly possible. I’m sorry your friend was that cold with you. However, it has been 2 awful, heartwrenching years. I’ve begged you to leave this horrible man that is killing your soul. We’ve all begged you. I’m betting your friends have done the same.
              I know you love him, or loved the him you used to know. Again, it’s been two years. That man is gone. In a few months you’ll be forced to witness the two of them publicly celebrate their love. We asked you to tell her H. Did you do that, or did he find out on his own? I wonder why it is they’re divorcing.

              Disappointed, please, seek therapy. Serious therapy. There is a very unhealthy dynamic in your life and you seem very stuck in it. We’ve all been there at some point, but you can’t or won’t try to remove yourself from what is clearly a very bad situation. This man, this situation, has broken you down and you can’t see beyond it. I know it hurts to think about it, but you need to do that. You need to think about a life without him. I’m not flippantly saying that. I say that with a heavy heart and a sad mind, but I do say it. You’ve tried hard enough, you’ve waited long enough, you’ve hurt more than enough. They are on a train to their future, and it’s been so long that now your feelings aren’t even being considered.

              Please, find a therapist and some family support, and try to break away from this.

            • tryinghard July 11, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

              Dis
              I too will hopefully say this as compassionately as I can for you to hear. It is the old cliche “laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone”. Your friends and family are only willing to listen to the same story for only so long. They love you and can’t stand to see you suffer. Maybe they are trying to use some “tough love” on you to help you accept what may be the inevitable. Yes there is a chance that maybe just maybe he will change his mind but it sounds like you have given him plenty of chances to do that and he has chosen not to. He may even regret it 5, 10 years down the road but are you willing to put your life on hold for that long? To take someone back not because they want you but because all else has failed? HELL NO you are worth more than that!!!! Sometimes I feel I need to talk to my friends but I don’t, I need to keep a little more sense of pride. They know I and my marriage are still a work in process and to tell you the truth they should be doing the same thing! They should be looking at their H’s, and marriages and their lives. I also think that is a concern for them. When their friends go through this they are scared to death it will happen to the.

              I hope you are seeing someone to get you through this time. It’s awful but I have faith you can get through it. We are all here for you. Peace my friend.

              • overwhelmed July 11, 2013 at 5:52 pm #

                I think you speak the truth Tryinghard. One of my sisters, who raised two boys on her own, put it this way, “I’ll gladly take the kids for the weekend, or an overnight here and there, no problem. We even have a camp at my place that they can go to. I’ll help as much as I can. But don’t expect me to do this a year from now.”

                And she’s totally right. She offered everything and anything, but made it clear that I must get back on my own feet and come up with a plan to care for the kids during summer break, holidays etc.

                So maybe, just maybe, that’s what your family and friends are doing, demanding you get back on your own two feet. Only their not getting their message across as compassionately as my sister. Food for thought.

                • Tryinghard July 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

                  Overwhelmed
                  That is exactly how I feel. Even in the middle of the hell I always kept a sense of humor with my friends about my situation. I needed them but I also knew there was a line. Two years later they know I’m still dealing with the aftermath but I don’t go into it with them. I save it for you lucky people:)

                  My son is going through a divorce and I am giving him the same space. He has been pretty angry towards me for little or nothing and I let him. I know he is only doing this because he can’t show his anger to his soon to be ex wife. Hes frustrated and angry at everything. I can relate. He knows he can show his anger to or at me and I will still be there loving and supporting him. I’m not however going to take it for too much longer:). That “kick me” sign will be coming down.

                • Paula July 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

                  Dis, ditto to all said above. I know how hard it is, your heart feels like it can’t cope, but even you can see he doesn’t want you – that is in no way your fault, but his choice. (And besides, who needs a narcissistic douchebag.) If you can’t get the help you need, you WILL end up with no friends, sadly, as was illustrated above, no one wants to hear about it after some time, they just see you as “choosing to wallow.” No one chooses to wallow, and I know you can’t fix your heart, look at me, four years out, and still heartbroken, but you have to find ways to move forward, for you. Doesn’t change your heartbreak, but NOT doing anything to help yourself makes you look less and less attractive, to all around you – and I don’t even care if he finds you attractive, or unattractive – it is a matter of pride. Damned if I will be seen as that poor bitch, but no wonder he cheated, look at her, she’s pathetic! I owe it to myself not to dwell so low. Don’t get me wrong, it’s BLOODY hard, but you have to do it. Even here, we, who understand better than anyone, WE will get sick of hearing it – if not already, and I do not say that to discourage you, just to try to help you take those steps you need to take, for you, sweetie.

                  • overwhelmed July 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

                    And this is what I had forgotten. Well put Paula!
                    I had forgotten to show her the strong ME that I am now. I had forgotten to show her that I KNOW I will be OK on the other side of this. I, once again, began trying to show her everything she was doing wrong and how much she was hurting everyone else around her and forgot that it doesn’t help at all. I MUST feel good. Not about this nightmare, but about ME. I know I’m a good person. I’ve been faithful for 20 years, without fail. I will continue to be faithful either to my wife-ish until the divorce papers are final or when I meet someone new. I AM GOOD. I AM FAITHFUL. I AM STRONG. I AM RESILIENT. I AM ME.

          • Recovering July 15, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

            funny how they are all okay being the sick, lying, cheating homewrecker that 90% of people hate… If they really thought it was all so great and okay then they wouldn’t have to lie about the whole cheating thing now would they? Is kinda funny… the other day I was watching the most disgusting movie ever (at least until I turned it off – maybe it ended well, who knows… ) “He’s Just Not That Into You”, and it sent me into a tizzy to see Bradley Cooper making excuses to be around Scarlet Johannsen when he was married! Ugh! I was SOOOO upset that I deleted the movie from the DVR and didn’t CARE how it ended, yet now I am curious… The lying that cheaters tell themselves, and the support that cheaters get from their friends…”maybe his wife isn’t REALLY the one he was meant to be with”… blah blah blah!…. anyway, after a few days I calmed down and realized that that movie had done a number on me in more ways that one! Obviously it was a major trigger, considering for days all I could do was pick fights with my husband and cry, but now… He OBVIOUSLY wasn’t “that into ” HER, the OW, the slut, the whore, whatever! He hid everything they ever did, took himself to a low level and became someone that he wants as few people to know about as possible. He is ASHAMED! Now this isn’t as good as being completely disgusted with himself, which I hope he really is that he knocked some sense into himself, but that attitude of “I can do what I want” is completely gone! If he really had been “that into” her, he would’ve left me… it wouldn’t have been 2 years of sneaking around and lying…. He was getting his ego stroked. Sick. True. But beyond that she was nothing but trash. Sick. True. I am a better person than them both – and hopefully he can heal from being so sick and recover… be a GROWN UP and a decent human… If not at least I can say that I tried and gave him a second chance. It will probably kill me if he cheats again, but I will always be able to live with myself since I never sunk to their low! EWWW!

            • Strengthrequired July 15, 2013 at 6:38 pm #

              Recovering, I wad just saying today to my h how his ow had very little respect for herself, because wanting to have a title ” home wrecker” shows no self respect. I told him any good person would have told him to work on his marriage, if his situation changed, and divorced then he can see her then.
              She didn’t say that.
              I said, could you imagine marrying this person, meeting people and they ask ” how did you get together ? ”
              ” well we cheated with each other behind his wife’s back, hurt a lot of people and decided we just had to get married”.
              I said ” could you imagine the looks on these people’s faces, their comments would be ” ohhh my, that’s nice”. Really thinking something else, just couldn’t say it.
              I told him how I prefer to show my girls how not to hurt someone else by being selfish and breaking a family. I an only imagine how her daughter is raised, thinking it’s ok to go after a married man and break a family. Not a good way to be raised with morals in the trash.

              • overwhelmed July 16, 2013 at 9:10 am #

                I know exactly how you feel Recovering. I had been looking forward to Steven King’s Under The Dome miniseries. That was one of the best books I’ve read in a long time. The first episode, a wife cheats. Last night, he rescues her and the scene with him carrying her out is so lovingly filmed, I wanted to puke. I wanted to scream at the TV, THAT’S NOT LOVE, THEY’RE F’ING CHEATERS!

                It’s infuriating how cheating is glamorized.

              • Recovering July 16, 2013 at 9:39 am #

                Strengthrequired,

                I said the same thing to my husband! I asked him how his parents would feel about her! How would he be in being a stepparent to dealing with her 2 boys? How is it that you are terrified of her husband, yet you weren’t afraid enough to NOT do his wife? EW!! Anyway, he didn’t think of these things… didn’t think that his kids would suffer in any way… he had that total delusion that the kids would be better off and would be fine… that him being a lying cheater wouldn’t make a difference to THEM (they were 9 and almost 12 when I found out). My husband and I have cute stories about how we ended up together – almost the “meant to be” stuff I used to fully believe in… yes… they would have to say… “she hit on me while I was drunk in a bar and we went out and made out in her car, and we fingered each other and the next day we said “last night was crazy” and then I made shit up in my head to make what I did okay and then I screwed her in the back of a car behind a bar a couple of times until she booked a cheap hotel room and she brought wine from her husbands stash and we got drunk and screwed in a bed for the first time.” IT WAS MAGICAL I BET! What a couple of sick whores! Yes… am still angry when I think about it. The text that I saw from him to her the night I found out said “Bring your sexy naked ass over here”.. they were again at another “work” outing where they would sneak behind the bar and screw… but the thing is… I don’t think he ever even saw her ass naked!! In a car you cant check much out, and in the hotel room they just “did it”, no special fun or anything, and he got up immediately and showered so he would “get clean” because he thought doing it in a hotel would make him feel better about screwing her – didn’t stop them, but he says he didn’t feel really great about it… wish I believed that, but I am not stupid regardless…. Anyway, wouldn’t THAT be the love story of the century!?! And to say… “yeah, the whole while nobody knew and we snuck around, and oh yeah, we were both still sleeping with our spouses”… is so disgusting! What I think is so comical in a demented way is that after all was said and done, and she had finally left the company, she was coming back 10 months later to the company and most people didn’t want her to come back because they couldn’t stand her!!! Really?!!! A person like that they couldn’t stand?!? And it wasn’t ME feeding my husband how awful she was, but people who had worked with her for years! They couldn’t STAND her!! Mr Critical of Everyone because He is So Perfect had picked someone to cheat with that everyone else hated!!! He CERTAINLY couldn’t let these people find out then what he had done!! Oh the embarrassment!! And it wasn’t even ME that had to point it out! Had he had his brain in his head instead of in his pants… Man he felt stupid… and rightfully he should!

                Some days I would LOVE to tell EVERYONE just so this isn’t my secret to bare… but I also don’t want everyone to know my humiliation and that I have stayed with someone who could be so sick and who could treat me so badly…

                I am drafting a “Post-nuptuial Agreement” that he is going to sign. He says he will sign anything, though I am not going to be unreasonable – I need this to be a legally binding document in case he ever did cheat again! Clearly the marriage certificate wasn’t enough of a deterrent! In it it will clearly state that he cheated, with whom and when, and that I will get the kids, the house, my car, the pets, blah blah blah, and that if I leave because I just cant live with what he has done then he will pay a percentage of the debt and alimony… And if he cheats again he gets ALL the debt, alimony, gives up rights to the kids, etc. I WILL NOT take the risk of staying with him for it all to go up in flames again. I need some sort of control… some sort of protection. And I hope that I never need it – he insists that I won’t, but for my own comfort level I need this… I felt like a jerk for even thinking about it, and then I was terrified he’d be mad for me bringing it up, but we are getting to that point where I need to decide – where I feel like I need to decide if we are gonna REALLY work or not… Of course it will be notarized and the whole thing – totally legal. The government wants to say who can and cannot get married, but they don’t give a crap what you do once you ARE married… is so stupid! If you are gonna have a cow about who CAN get married, and it is such a big issue, then help PRESERVE marriage!!! Sure, there is one person I would kill if it were legal… if we had a Purge day… but it isn’t and the price I would pay wouldn’t be worth it since it is NOT legal… we need that for cheating too!!! It IS a legal contract to be married is it not? Im not saying that I want the government in everything I do, but they are already in it, so frigging help me already! My state doesn’t even have “adultery” as an option for divorce!! If I left him because HE CHEATED, it wouldn’t be any different that if we just couldn’t get along anymore!! How messed up is that!!???

                Anyway, he had no good story with the whore… all his good stories have been with me – the mother of his children, his support, his anchor… his WIFE. His story with IT is sick and disgusting, and nobody really wants to hear it!!

                • Disappointed July 16, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

                  Every lawyer I talked to discouraged me about doing a post nup. they said they are easy to deem invalid later. My h has no assets but I do. legally he would get half my 401k and I would need to take half his debt. I wanted him to sign saying he would waive and my lawyer said I needed to offer him a portion so that he was getting appropriate consideration for the waiver. just as an fyi – that’s what I was told. I did not proceed.

                  • Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

                    That’s n interesting point disappointed.
                    I’m glad you came back…..I hope youvare doing ok.

                • Strengthrequired July 16, 2013 at 6:01 pm #

                  Recovering, how comical are these ow, thinking that they had the best love story with our husbands, if anything I think it is more degrading in any standards. What stories they would have had, if a couple I met, told me how they met and it was full of deception, lies, cheating then my whole way of thinking of this couple would change, don’t think I would want to associate with them, I would be making excuses not to.
                  I can only imagine though how a couple that have married after hurting so many people, would be sugar coating the way they got together, they wouldn’t mention that one or both of them were married at the time, I had also told him that, if you have lie and cheat to be with someone, how is that good? Surely just the lying would eventually torment a person that hated lying who would never have lied before. If someone can bring the worst out in you, and not the best person out in you then they shouldn’t be in your life.
                  As for the post nuptial, that’s good if your h will sign it, I haven’t even thought of it myself.
                  How good if the governments would stand by the betrayed spouses. If only it were illegal. Maybe a few of these affairs wouldn’t start and a few bs would be saved.

            • Rachel July 15, 2013 at 8:33 pm #

              Recovering,
              You are not alone. I can’t watch that movie either.

              • Strengthrequired July 15, 2013 at 11:05 pm #

                I haven’t watched that movie, probably before the ea, I may have been able to sit through it, but when it hits so close to home, I can’t imagine being able to watch it, not completely. If I did and my h was sitting next ti me, I think all the snide comments will come out of my mouth, and it wouldn’t make my h feel good. He would know that it would be somewhat a dig at him.
                So now I know what that movie is about I will steer clear of it.

      • Strengthrequired July 10, 2013 at 9:41 am #

        Well spoken overwhelmed. If there is anything we can all be proud of is our ability to completely love another person, through the good and bad times, something that our cs, haven’t been able to do.
        So yes we are worthy of unconditional love.
        There was one day, I don’t know why I looked but I did. I was feeling at a low, so decided t check up on an Internet dating site, “I didn’t know people could advertise for just a “friend”, I can’t believe how many married people are looking for someone just fir a good time. Maybe I am just a bit slow at catching up with the times, but I just found it wrong. Anyway, I was browsing some of the available men, some that were widowed with children, divorced with children, and around my age, and these men were hoping to find someone that would be trustworthy, loving, someone that they could enjoy time with. I have ti say, although I would never even think of getting in touch with any man, besides my h, but just knowing that there are men out there that want to truly settle down and just love someone else with there whle heart, just made me feel like now my marriage has lost that feeling of nothing could break us, and seeing those men looking for what my h and I had, and hopefully will have again as I learn to trust him again with my heart and my love, I just really missed it. I felt sad. I really miss what my h and I had, now it is just tarnished.

  13. suzie suffers July 10, 2013 at 12:44 am #

    Well….at least I lost the 40 lbs…stress over an affair can do that!! I look good and just got a great dream job….I have 3 beautiful children that are disgusted by the behavior of their father…..his family (except his mommy) hasn’t spoken to him in 15 years…including my family…He’s surrounded himself and his narcissistic supply with LOTS of lies in his Alanon group…including us not being together in the last 3 years.(I was away while he was FINALLY going to get a job and try to support us…although he moved home with mommy after the affair and finally his step dad kicked him out after a year…He was 62!!!) LIES…lies lies……..does it ever end….will I ever trust anyone…He was my first true love at age 18….it’s hard to imagine I won’t always be suspicious of the next guy…always on guard….doesn’t seem worth it…while my ex is living the life of his dreams without an even second thought about me…just him and his GF…. THANKS….I needed alittle venting tonight…even after all this….the hurt runs deep….I need so much to have a life back!!! My life!!!

  14. tryinghard July 10, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    I guess I kind of compare this sisterhood/brotherhood to people on an airplane. They are all strangers and don’t even acknowledge each other until some disaster happens and then they are all united in the trauma. That is us. We are people from all walks of life who have been hit with trauma. Our stories are all the same and what is truly sad is the new ones coming up. I can’t help but look when I am in a crowd of people, “hhhmm I wonder who here is going through what I am going through?” I too feel a friendship I suppose in our mutual doubt, misery, efforts, spirituality etc. I look forward to all your posts and it’s sad to say sometimes this is the only place where I feel people hear me, understand me. I know there is hope for peace. I’ve long given up on happiness. I’m okay with that. As we age nothing gets easier. I have friends with fatal diseases, my son is divorcing, my husbands parents are aging, old friends are gone, so happy no, hope to find the peace to deal with issues is all I can try to find.

    Overwhelmed, I love you analysis on the whole “soul mate” stance. It’s brilliant.

    Love and peace to ALL my friends here!

    • overwhelmed July 11, 2013 at 10:35 am #

      Ya know, I’ve found myself doing something very similar. Driving in my car, I see someone walking and I wish them a happy life. Wonder what nightmare they’re struggling though at this time. This has changed my entire perspective of life. Instead of calling that other driver a jerk, I remind myself that he could be living some hell right now much worse than mine.

      And that’s was Blue’s comment about “Soulmates” and I agree, it’s beautiful. I will have to tell my wife-ish that when the time is right. It’ll be fun. ;)

  15. Paula July 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

    And to adding to that thought, I often think of all of those who are being cheated on, but don’t know yet, are blissfully unaware (as I was for sixteen months) and then those who never will know. Mine said he was extricating himself for months, hoping against hope that she would let him go, making it difficult for her, missing “hookup” times, letting her down, so she would let him go (but obviously, not ALL the time, dumbass, lol!!!) as he could see the train wreck he had caused, but that he felt he had learned what tipped him over the edge into risky and dangerous behaviour, and I would never know, and he had “fixed” himself, and NEVER wanted to do that (have another affair – he has only had the one) again, as it was a terrible time for him, not a good one. He was completely rapt, and madly in love with me – apparently even during the affair, just lost and confused (spoilt brat) that I was not longer at his beck and call, as I had been for the first twenty-odd years! I often wonder what would have happened to us if she hadn’t told me – we had already re-connected in a fabulous way before she did, we just had one of those crazy years, and so I resigned from my job to make our family more functional, and happier, we were again working together, having sex about three or four times a day, all over the farm (we were always a very sexual couple, even during the fifteen months he was involved in his affair) – and I had not a clue about his affair, absolutely none. I may be naive here, but I think he had worked it all out, and worked it through his system, decided what he wanted, ME, and how, and if I didn’t know, maybe, just maybe, we would still be the madly in love couple we were for the first 21 years. Coulda, woulda, shoulda…..Didn’t happen that way, and he says he is glad I know, that he doesn’t have to keep that secret, that he was given the opportunity to work on himself so thoroughly. He is confident he could have gone to his grave with the secret (and I believe him, he was a master liar during those fifteen months MASTER!) but that he doesn’t know what damage it would have done to his soul.

    • Tryinghard July 11, 2013 at 9:32 pm #

      Paul’s
      My H said the same. He tried many times to make her angry so she would leave and no it didn’t work. Yep he kept going back. He has said the thing he feared most was her telling me so he kept it up, he compartmentalized and thought he could go to his grave with the secret. He kept hoping she would tire of it. She didn’t. He was her sugared daddy WTF she’s not stupid!

      School is the best thing for you right now. You will study your ass off. You won’t have time to think about anything else and that’s good. You can have peace because you know you did everything to make it work and it just didn’t. Now it’s all about you and you are awesome.

      I like that. BLOODY DOUCHEbAGS!

      • Strengthrequired July 11, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

        Th, Paula,my h told me the same thing, he wanted ti get her ti make the decision to walk away, he would get her angry, he would talk terrible to her, yet she still kept being there, she would not walk away. She wanted him right or wrong, she only wanted someone to look after her and her kids, nothing else. Which has me wonder why would they settle for second best, it just shows me that they dont think very highly of themselves, they are willing to settle for anything.
        Crazy and delusional. Why our spouses got caught up in such a person is beyond me, all that negativity that the other person shows just brushed off onto our spouses and dragged them to a very disgusting low.
        My h would tell me how she wasn’t very smart, she doesn’t know much, well hello, she was pretty damn smart to play you.

  16. Disappointed July 11, 2013 at 9:04 pm #

    I know you are all trying to help. I do see a counselor but will never have any of the closure or answers I need. Yes I hear loud and clear he no longer wants me. I am in this alone. I will go on because I wouldn’t have the balls to kill myself and break my mom’s heart. But I don’t believe any more in anything. I am sorry my grief and pain are inconvenient and boring. I will do my best not to bother anyone else with it. But it never leaves me. I never got to grieve the death of my dad 15 years ago because I had to care of everyne else. I will grieve as I need to and if that means alone so be it.

    • overwhelmed July 11, 2013 at 9:40 pm #

      You are absolutely NOT in this alone Disappointed. You are here, as I have so fortunately found, with a group of people who are willing to listen, willing to help, willing to put their souls on display because we know your pain and we hope that in some small way we can help one another to get through even the next 5 minutes. We know it and live it every day. My W has told me in no uncertain terms that “She can’t live with me anymore”. I know your pain. I have 2 young children. We are living without Mama. Each moment of each day is filled with dread of the moment when the children must be told that Mama is never coming home. But that doesn’t change my mission. While my immediate mission is to try whatever it takes to spare my children from this hell, my secondary mission is to make me a better me.
      You can do this. You certainly can. You just have to want to. It’s all about attitude.

      My father passed away on December 1, 2012. My wife-ish chose to tell me about her affair on that very same day. I know all too well about not having the opportunity to grieve for your fathers passing. All too well. It haunts me. But you need to find some mission. Some purpose. Some reason to get up in the morning and move on. There is something there for you. You have to look for it. It’s there, I promise you.
      I have felt totally lost for so long, desperately wanting my wife back. We’ve had 15 great years out of 20. But I’ve realized recently that maybe, just maybe, there’s some very lonely woman out there right now just waiting for me to find her. And it will be beautiful.

      Maybe that woman is my wife-ish. Maybe it’s someone totally new.

      But it will be beautiful.

      Choose your own destiny. Do not allow anyone else to define who you are.

    • Tryinghard July 11, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

      No no Disappointed. We are here for you. You do need to grieve. All of us do. Please don’t take what I said negatively.

      We are all led to believe if we work hard enough, and are good enough, and do good things, life will be good to us. Well that is a fucking fairy tale! Bad shit happens and when it does we HURT. It was insensitive of your friend to treat you that way. I don’t ever want you to be treated that way. Unless someone has been through this experience they do not know what we are going through and this makes them feel helpless. They truly don’t know what to say. This is why we have all suggested you talk to a professional. They do know what to say and they get paid for it. Don’t even think of killing yourself over that dirtbag husband. He is not worth it.

    • Strengthrequired July 11, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

      Disappointed, I want you to know I’m hear for you. Do as much venting as you like, if I was near you, I would let you cry on my shoulder. Unfortunately our friends, family don’t fully understand what we are going through. I can honestly say, when my brothers wife had affairs behind his back, left him on his 40th birthday, etc, I didn’t know what to do for him, I didn’t know how ti ease his paIn. He just kept working and drowning in his grief. It has been many years ago since that happened and she still takes what she can from my brother.
      My brother last year told me, “at least you still have your h”. I hadn’t mentioned to him anything about what has happened with my h and I, I guess he heard from my mum. They dint know all that has happened either, if I do mention anything about my h ea, with what they know, I get told by my sister, I don’t want to know, so I just don’t mention anything, keep it for here. My sister is not married, no bf, so she has no idea on the pain I have been in, so of course I know there isn’t anything she can say, it would be nice just ti have someone listen but we do need to choose correctly on where to vent. Lessons I have learned, through this.
      Please just keep coming in here, get all that pain off your chest before it consumes you, this is the place to do it.
      With us.
      You have a wonderful heart and soul, don’t give up on yourself, find yourself, become the person you know you are, since before all of this heartache. Know that this pain will get easier, and that there is someone out there wanting a wonderful person like you in their life, and would cherish you.
      I know it won’t be easy, but remember, you had the best part of your h, now the ow she has your leftovers. She has taken the person that is untrustworthy, dishonest and uncaring, you had and always will have had the better part of your h.
      Your h on the other hand always had the best of person in you, what does he get, he gets the worse part of himself, her.
      You have to know that your life is going to be the wonderful, the person you meet will be wonderful, your chilldren are next to you, they are your best support, they are on your side. Just keep on loving and love yourself most of all. Don’t let your h ea consume you, because you are your h greatest loss, he may not see it now, but you are.
      That will be his suffering when he sees that you were able to move in without hum and have a wonderful life, with your children and grand children, and a wonderful new partner. It will all fall into place for you, in a great way. Just make those first few steps to moving forward in creating the person you can be now. Do the things you have always wanted to do, it’s your turn to enjoy your life the right way.
      One step at a time and you will make it. Loadsof cyberspace hugs your way.

    • Rachel July 11, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

      Disappointed , I hear and feel your pain. We will come out of this because we are strong and we matter. Some days are tough but the next day will be better. One step at a time.
      Good luck!

    • exercisegrace July 12, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

      Disappointed, my heart breaks for you. I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but I think when it is finally “over”, when he is actually “gone”, is when it will start to get better. You have lived in a hellish limbo for the last two years. No one can fault you for trying to save your marriage, for hoping and praying he would come to his senses and see what he is throwing away. it is the ending you wanted, but perhaps in the long run not the ending you need.

      I encourage you to hang on. I hope and pray your family and friends will recognize that there may be a few more very dark days right after he leaves. BUT. You WILL be ok. You WILL find your feet again. Let the closure come. Plan your support, map your next move. DO something for yourself. Maybe go back to school or contemplate some other thing that is just for YOU.

      Praying for you!

  17. Paula July 12, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    Disappointed, I hope my comment was no the catalyst for your despair. Believe me, I DO understand. I attempted suicide, twice. And I have three kids. First attempt was five months in, and the second was nearly two years in. It is embarrassing to admit that, I am not usually that selfish, but I just couldn’t bear the pain, and I felt I was a poor example of recovery to my kids, and even though I knew it would damage them, I just couldn’t be there for them, and felt they would eventually understand. I really do understand. None of us want you to feel alone, and so desperate. We are here, and if this is your dumping/venting ground, do that, it needs to go somewhere. I am with SR, friends don’t get it. Not at all. And they are impatient, “get over it already.”

    What does your counsellor offer? Has she any techniques to help? I have talked to a few, and found that they are not all created equal. Some good ones are still not a fit for what you are dealing with. Lately I have found ACT therapy was the closest thing to help, a little, nothing else did. It is no magic potion, it takes a long time, and constant practice, but it doesn’t try to tell you to “forget it, leave it behind,” that is IMPOSSIBLE! It helps you to try to make your way in the world, WITH this as a part of you, living with the pain, and making small amounts of room for the tiny specks of good. I am not leaping for joy, but it has been a long time since I felt truly suicidal, and I am still here, loving my kids – you have your Mom to do that for. I am very sorry if you are feeling low, and unappreciated, even here – it takes hard work, and a VERY long time to start to make inroads into this stuff. Hang in there, we care

  18. livingonafence July 12, 2013 at 9:24 am #

    Disappointed, no one here is saying we don’t want to hear it. Quite the contrary. There is genuine concern for you however. As I said, you seem very stuck. It has been 2 years, and you’re still trying, still hoping he will return. That doesn’t seem like grieving, it seems like ignoring. I say that with concern, not contempt. It seems as if you don’t want to accept that it is over with your H. I won’t say “man” because he’s not. He’s selfish, immature, and just plain mean. You never speak about your former marriage, or former relationship. You only speak of how he is still at it. Of course he is, he isn’t in this marriage any longer. You’re alone in a marriage, and that’s scary and painful, as we all know.
    Again, grieving is fine. Venting is fine. Anger is fine. It doesn’t seem like you’re grieving or venting or angry. It seems like you’re sad that your H hasn’t come back to you yet but you’re still waiting for that day. Please, please, please, grieve the loss of your marriage and husband. Grieve the loss of your prior life. Grieve the loss of the dreams you had for the future. But please, accept that it’s over and start the rebuilding.
    We’re all here for you, all the time. We all think you can do this. You need to believe that too.

  19. Paula July 12, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

    Oh, and Disappointed, I was thinking of you overnight, and I just wanted to share something that happened to me recently, to illustrate that I TOTALLY get what you are saying, and what you are feeling. My best friend in the world, who I have known since I was 10 years old, who also grew up with the OW in my case, said something to me the other day, that was quite hurtful. I haven’t shared any of my agony in the “real world” for over two years. She should have NO IDEA how much I still hurt. But, in my hurt, I have isolated myself, somewhat, I felt I had to, to try to stay away from the judgement of many – not bad judgement, a lot of sympathy (pity?!) – so I have changed my social life completely. I see no one, sometimes going a month or two without any social contact. Partly because I got sick of how inane I found many of my friend’s lives now. Wine, gossip, moaning about their husbands, children, where they are taking their next holiday, and I found it all so bland and selfish after this apocalypse in my life. And I couldn’t share. I did for a while, and this friend, she was my biggest support, but I had to learn to stop leaning on her, it was “time.” So, I hadn’t seen her for several months (we used to catch up several times per week) and she asked how I was, I replied that I have made a rule not to talk about any of this anymore to friends, it just opens the floodgates. She was good, and then later in the night, she said something to me, and I said, “actually, I’m bloody lonely,” my partner had told her this about a year ago, that I felt isolated, and needed fun and friendship more than ever, she was all, “oh, yeah, yeah, no worries, we’ll go out, have some fun,” she rang me, we caught up for lunch – once. Time marched on. I got it, she has five young children a demanding husband, a teaching career, and she is VERY social, always out and about. I keep in touch, and she texts, etc, from time to time. But, when I said, “actually, Sweetpea, I am bloody lonely,” she turned to me and said, “well, darling, that is really your choice.” In retrospect, she is partly right. I kind of knew it all along. But, boy, it hurt like hell to hear it! (Not that I let her know her words hurt me – I guess she would call it tough love.) I have lost the connections I had with the people I associated with. I feel like I have little in common with many of them, and I am learning to love my own company more than ever (I was always happy enough spending alone time, but I always knew I had plenty of friends when I needed them, I don’t feel that way really, any longer) and look for outside interests. It feels really hard, really lonely, but this is the way my life is now. This is my point of acceptance, and it isn’t great, but I am doing okay. You just have to keep pushing yourself, to take the next baby step, to realise that the setbacks occur, but you are stronger than you know! Stay with us, Disappointed, this is a long ride, but we are all on it together!

  20. Strengthrequired July 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm #

    I hear you with the loneliness, I stopped seeing my friends, my family, I shut alot of people out. I needed to do that for me, it was the only way I felt like I could heal in peace. Still healing….
    My h told me something similar to what your friend said to you. I know he is right, but things changed the moment he entered into an ea.
    One step at a time and I will find a new social life, right now not ready, trusting anyone is hard.
    It’s a shame we all aren’t close by, maybe all of us who are lonely would be able to have our new social group, with those of us that truly understand each other.

    • Paula July 13, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

      So right, sr. Trusting anyone IS hard.

      Same friend, same night asked me how my health is now. She knew I contracted Chlamydia. I hadn’t shared about the HPV and the six monthly smears since. I told her. And I told her I have now got an early cancer diagnosis because of it. I told her there is absolutely not one instance of cancer other than mymother’s mid-20s Hopkins Lymphoma, in my entire extended family. The condition I have should be fully treatable we have it early. But friend J said, “just have a hysterectomy, you’ve finished your family. I was gobsmacked. And left it there.

      • Tryinghard July 14, 2013 at 7:12 pm #

        If I can’t trust the person closest to me I can trust no one. This is not to say I’m not pleasant but I don’t take anyone’s word for anything and no way I let them in my heart. There’s only one right now and that is my 3 year old grandson. So trust is a word forever banished from my mind. I might like or enjoy some people’s company but trust will never be a part of any relationship and I am ok with that. I keep A LOT to myself.

        This whole thread has gotten me thinking about dignity and our own sense of pride. I’m not saying prideful but a sense of pride in how we comport ourselves. After DDay I did some things that I never thought I was capable and looking back were stupid and dangerous. I got away with it and was forgiven and well yes probably goes down locally as legendary crazy woman behavior. Yep most women and even some husbands said good for you I’d have done the same. Well you might get away with that kind of spiteful behavior but done again just looks pathetic to your friends and family. When they ask how you are doing I doubt sincerely they really want to hear the tacky truth, “We’ll actually BFF I’m doing pretty bad when I’m alone with my own thoughts. You see I just can’t get that vision out of my head of my husband fucking that skank. And well yes I am still mad and bitter that he gave her money all the time.” No way I would say that because I won’t put my self in the position of maybe having to hear her say “get over it”. Yeah I don’t trust anyone not to say that. When asked I say I’m doing GREAT couldn’t be better. Then I walk away and think to myself “eff you, you don’t really want to know” but I need some sense of pride and dignity. Besides what else can they say or do to help me. Nothing. We need to help ourselves through counseling, books, blogs like this, and sometimes although not most talking to our spouses but sometimes that isn’t helpful either. As for me I believe my husband soft soaps the reality of what happened. Yes I see changes but he is not much help in my healing and I have to be very careful with my conversations and emotions to get anything out of him. It works for me.

        Paula your friend was cruel and col hearted with her response to you. Jeeesh karma just may come back and bite her in the ass too and who will she turn to? Haha you, that’s who. Ugh life is cruel. Wonderful but cruel.

    • Recovering July 16, 2013 at 9:55 am #

      It is so sad that in the time that we need support the most, we run away… I pulled away from everyone too… am now after 25 months trying to reach back out, but some of those who I cared for the most are gone. I didn’t want to be a burden on them… I didn’t want to be a burden on myself because I just couldn’t be who THEY needed during the past 2 years… and most of them have NO IDEA why… I wish I could explain, but I can’t take the risk… can’t open that can of worms again. So I am lonely for my friends. I am lonely for my sister, who I never told what he did to my family… to me… She would hate him… there is a new void that will always be there – his secret… OUR secret…. I have a new friend… a friend since the cheating, and I don’t tell her either. I don’t want that to tarnish things… I am not who I was before… I am a bit jaded, bitter, and no as understanding of people. I used to think people were generally good… not anymore. I even watch this new friend interact with my husband… I am like a hawk with a secret… paranoid, yet not to the extreme, lonely yet not a loner… I exist… My goal has become to exist almost invisibly so I can see who people REALLY are… I am alone the same way I’ve been since this nightmare all started. Trust in people is gone. Now they all have to earn the trust first… I am jaded… and I hate that about me! Does it go away?

      • Strengthrequired July 16, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

        It’s funny you say that about watching your new friend like a hawke, I would be doing the same. Don’t trust anyone, not when it comes to my h, my family. I just can’t do it. Look what happens when you trust those close to you.
        Not anymore, not setting myself up for such a huge disappointment again. I guess that’s why I haven’t gotten close to any new friends. Not ready.
        I miss my sister too, we have drifted part since my h ea, I just don’t know how to get our relationship back how it was, we used to talk daily, now every few months maybe.
        Nothing is th same anymore, not ev with my mum. Yet the ow, wtf has she lost, certainly nothing of value to her.
        When do these people that get their kicks out of ruining others lives finally have their karma hit? It just seems so unfair, that they lose nothing after the chaos they caused.

  21. Paula July 13, 2013 at 6:43 pm #

    *Hodgkins

    • overwhelmed July 14, 2013 at 9:13 am #

      My God that’s cold. How can a friend be so uncaring?

    • Teresa July 18, 2013 at 1:53 am #

      Paula, you already KNOW how I feel about J so I won’t say it here….but you know I love ya and you’re a very special friend….and you are soooo much better off without her!

  22. Rachel July 14, 2013 at 8:42 am #

    Paula,
    So sorry to hear about your health and what you are going through. You are a strong woman. Good luck and peace to you.

  23. Roller Coaster Rider no more July 15, 2013 at 6:58 am #

    This is an amazing thread; was hoping I’d never be here reading and replying again. What pain, and it’s only beginning since I’m still in the early days where there’s a lot of shock to give that momentary numbness. I feel for each of you, share some of each story. Had my final D-Day last week, after nearly three years of crap dished out in varying shades of deceit, plenty of look-you-straight in the eye and lie, unbelievable hypocrisy and pretense. My life should seriously be made into some kind of ironic comedy. But enough about me for now. Thank you for being a caring community of support and an honest place of refuge. Thank you for speaking truth. Doug and Linda, I’m really glad you’re able to have this trip. I wish you well.

    • Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

      I’m sorry roller coaster, come in and get as much support as you need from us here, it’s a great place to vent and when there is little to no hope of healing in sight, it may not look like it now, but time does make it easier. There is hope, for a brighter future.

    • Teresa July 18, 2013 at 1:52 am #

      Rollercoaster rider….are you the same person who was here 2 yrs ago, and remarried your CS??? Oh goodness, I HOPE not…but I think you are!
      I’m I Feel So Dumb from 2yrs ago! Changed over to Teresa after I FINALLY figured out that I was NOT the dumb one, my H was!!
      So sorry you’re back here again, RCR! I just pop in every now and then, to see how some old friends are doing and to see if I can offer any helpful advice….being 2 1/2 yrs out…I’m an “oldie” :)

      • Strengthrequired July 18, 2013 at 2:08 am #

        Here here Theresa, we were not the dumb ones, our spouses were the ones. All we did was to trust the person we felt we could trust. That isn’t dumb.

        • Teresa July 18, 2013 at 2:23 am #

          Exactly SR….thats why the name changed! : D I’m PROUD of who I am, and have nothing to hide, because I did nothing wrong!

  24. Strengthrequired July 15, 2013 at 5:50 pm #

    What a friend is all I can say, if that is what you would like to call her. I’m sorry but that response is exactly what turns you away from some people.
    Your a strong woman surround yourself with people that are there to support you through this that has turned your life upside Down and inside out. You need positivity and encouragement and most of all a true friend.

  25. Gizfield July 16, 2013 at 10:18 pm #

    It’s like I said not long ago, Strength. The Karma is interrupted, the cheaters dont usually lose anything if you dont leave them. Sucks, I know.
    One thing that gets me as well. The Cheaters are free to ” walk among us”, unexposed. The other night I was around agroup of my husband.’s old friends, who know his girlfriend. Really wanted to say, “by the way, your friend — thinks it’s ok to date peoples’ husbands. Then act sanctimonious like she did nothing. Then threaten and cuss the wife (me, lol). But no, she and my husband go along their merry unexposed (for the most part ) ways. Very unfair.
    I just wonder how many of these night crawlers there really are. My husband’s brother divorced a couple of years ago, not sure of the whole story. Anyway, in February he came here with his new girlfriend. She was cute and nice. The ex wife was nice, but sarcastic and overweight. Not my H.s Type. This chick could be. Before I would have thought nothing of it. as it should be. Now, if I caught them emailing or talking I would lose my shit. I know my h emailed the ex cause I saw jokes and stuff they sent. His girlfriend was also on there, lol. Guess I get to be painted as the jealous, psychotic bitch wife from here on out. Whatever it takes I guess’s.. Anyway, it’s just sad you can trust no one. Even family. Trust is the cheater’s biggest Ally.

  26. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 5:21 am #

    Gizfield, my h has lost a lot too due to his ea, hasn’t been able to have a decent rest to get ournfinances backmunder control, so he works way too much. He hasn’t been that well either. I worry he is working himself into the ground. As for the ow, skanky cousin it, well she has cost nothing, not a thing, and you can’t say lost my h because really she never really had him to begin with. Yet I would love to see some sort of karma come her way for what she deliberately did to my family.
    She isn’t tormented day in day out from the pain she caused, she isn’t struggling ti trust, she hasn’t lost her family, friends, money, integrity or self respect (hard to lose those twomif you didn’t have it in the first place). It’s a joke that someone can walk into your life and within a blink of an eye, think that it’s theirs to take.
    Hopefully one day, I will hear through the grapevine that karma hit hermin a big way. I just don’t think it will happen though.

  27. Rachel July 17, 2013 at 5:37 am #

    Suppose to be going to court again tomorrow. Wonder what the ex has up his sleeve this time??
    My youngest is not speaking to me. His father said he would buy him a car. I’m not agreeing because my attorney said no new purchases during the divorce. The ex told my son that I’ll have to pay half of the car after the divorce. Dont think so!! Now im the bad guy.

  28. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 6:44 am #

    Ohhh Rachel, I’m sorry about your son, looks like your h is playing with hyoid sons head, unfortunately. Your son is angry, at most likely everything thats happened, most likely blaming you for everything, thanks to your h. hopefully I’m wrong.
    Good luck and all the very best for tomorrow, hopefully it all goes ahead for you so this nightmare can be finished with. Fingers crossed your h doesn’t come up with anything new to use as an excuse to stop the divorce proceedings.
    Hang in there honey

  29. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 6:45 am #

    That was supposed to say your sons head, who knows where tha other word came from.

  30. Gizfield July 17, 2013 at 4:43 pm #

    I’m not sure I agree with the advice of not confronting the homewreckers or exposing the affair, in mostcases. Like child molesters, they ruin your life and move on to the next victim under the cover of anonymity. It is disgusting that women can apparently no longer trust anyone. Friend, coworker, relative, enemy, anyone. These sluts are a scourge on society. !! It needs to stop. They are so whorish they dont even think they are whores any more.I wish I had exposed it all inmediately. Not just to my friends, but his and hers. All mine know and I lived through it, so should they.

    • overwhelmed July 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm #

      Well, let’s not leave out that fellas shall we? What about the divorced fathers of 9 year old sons who feel no compunction whatsoever is actively participating in tearing apart another family, all in the name of love. Right…. Love.

      As far as exposing the affair, I believe it must be done with great care. I have told every family member on both sides of the family about W’s affair and now regret it. Why? Well for starters, I completely let her off the hook. She no longer has to explain to anyone why she’s not living with her family. To make matters worse, everyone and I mean everyone has essentially told her she’s an idiot and this has only succeeded in pushing her farther away. At this point, I might argue that this is not such a bad thing, but the bottom line is that if can get my wife-ish back, HEALED, this is the outcome I would prefer, mainly for he benefit of the kids. Do I want her back “as-is”? Not on your life.

      As far as confronting Mr. Wonderful (who’s so wonderful they sleep on a pull-out couch, lol that just kills me!), well, I don’t really see the point. Would it make me feel better to rip him apart? Maybe for 5 minutes. But to what end? I would only be lowering myself to his level. I’m better than that.

      Rachel, I’m very sorry to hear the problems with your son. Hopefully, he will someday be able to realize that you are the one who tried to keep it all together when his world was blown to smithereens. :(

      • Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 7:59 pm #

        Overwhelmed, definately nit forgetting the om who believe in destroying the lives of families, they are just as bad as the ow.
        They dint care who is left laying on the ground struggling to get back up with some sort of dignity.
        Well MR wonderful sleeping on a fold up couch, lol, what a prize catch your wifeish chose. talk about downgrading.

        I dont understand why these om and ow, can’t find someone that is available, there are so many people out there that are unattached, why choose someone that is attached, has a family and commitments to the person they married. Where are their morals, why is hurting people not a concern to them? I will never understand how people can be like this.

      • tryinghard July 18, 2013 at 10:52 am #

        Overwhelmed
        LOL we could never forget about you!!! Your wife/not the wife sounds like a real prize. I mean WTF she is married to you and living with pull- out- sofa -bed- boy??? DO NOT TELL ME HE LIVES IN HIS PARENTS BASEMENT!!! Quit making it easy for her. Even if she does come back I think you will find it very difficult to accept her back and she won’t be the same person. None of us are.

        Hit her where it hurts, start moving on, cut her off financially. Does she work? If not make it so she needs to get a job. You deserve better, keep saying that to yourself.

    • Recovering July 18, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

      tryinghard,

      I totally agree, and I left nasty messages on the whore’s phone but I didn’t know her or her husband, so for like the first 6 months I was in a complete daze and didn’t have much of a coherent thought, and then by the time I seriously considered telling the whores husband she was gone from the company and I wanted my marriage to work. Now I carry the burden that her husband doesn’t know. I probably would’ve been doing her a favor if I told since she complained to my husband about how awful her husband was all of the time… yet 2 years later she is still married to her unknowing husband… he must have been SOOOO awful, or she is a coward!! LOL! She IS a coward, and a liar!! But I can’t bring myself now, 2 years later, to hurt her husband and children… especially since sometimes I wish that it would’ve ended with them (as it would’ve anyway) and I never would’ve known…. fairytale land I know, but… she does deserve to die in a single car accident or something where nobody else gets hurt… am starting to doubt the existence of Karma… it is testing my patience badly!!

      • tryinghard July 18, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

        Recovering
        The day after DDay the OW lover/ex step son called me and told me my husband was having an affair with his girlfriend. Of course I already knew but we had quite the conversation. Boyfriend/Ex Step Son didn’t know about my H and the OW kept swearing that he and I were like sister and brother to her!!! WTF I never had anymore than a perfunctory conversation with her as an employee. He also told me she was having sex with other guys here at work while my H was seeing her. My H didn’t know about the boyfriend (but was figuring it out) . The boyfriend was pretty upset and drunk when he called me that day but I thanked him and was very gracious. He had just gone through a divorce and I think he liked her a lot. He wasn’t much, after all he was effing his father’s ex-wife, I know very Jerry Springer. Well anyway I talked him into calling my H and well I guess it was some conversation. Told him he saw his car down at her house in the afternoon when he had just had sex with her in the morning so he got his sloppy seconds. Very tacky!! He also threatened to kill my H, I still laugh at that! Anyway I really believe his phone calls to my H helped shake him out of his affair fog. He thought she was totally loyal to him!! What an idiot!!! So he got his too.

        I think the OW”s husband deserves to know and I would send a letter anonymously. He deserves to know. He deserves to know what he’s married to.

        As to Karma, how do you know her insides aren’t rotting out!!!! Hopefully her husband is an asshole and she is stuck living with him. But mostly I hope she is miserable knowing your husband chose you and NOT her!

        • Strengthrequired July 18, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

          TH, omg are you serious, sleeping with his fathers ex-w, it makes me wonder if he left his w for her. Sleeping around with peolple in the office the same time as being with your h. How blinded was your h. My goodness, what a dirty ass ow she is. Goes to show you how deluded our spouses have been, them thinking we were the trash, ye all a long they were giving themselves to someone who deserved the name trash. These ow and om are very good masters of manipulation, and I believe it is a game to them. They try and try to destroy families, then when it doesn’t happen the keep trying, when it does happen they get tired, they conquered the war was won, so they move in to the next victim.
          If our spouses don’t feel damn foolish for falling into these people’s traps, and risking the loss of their family, then they are idiots.

      • Strengthrequired July 18, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

        Let’s hope karma hits like a nasty bitch when it finally hits.

        I try and believe that cousin it knowing that my h chose me over her is her karma, but honestly that is no where near the pain that she caused me and my family. Karma is supposed to be worse than that the other person dished out.

  31. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 6:27 pm #

    Your right, how good would it be if these ow aren’t on.a name and shame list.
    We have to continue trying to pick up the pieces from cyclone ow, the master of mass destruction. The cyclone that doesn’t care who is in her way, she just goes over those in her way and takes her casualties along with her.
    It’s disgusting how they can’t be held accountable for what they have done.

  32. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    Overwhelmed your right, I did come across that site one day, how tempting is it, lol. I just couldn’t do it.

    • Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

      I wonder how legal that sight would be.

      • Recovering July 18, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

        The site is VERY legal, and it has been challenged in court already!! LOL! Am VERY tempted on a regular basis to put the whore on there… only thing is that I don’t want the picture of my whore, um, I mean husband, on there too!! I don’t want the whole world knowing… But it IS a tempting way to tell HER husband!!!!

        • Strengthrequired July 18, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

          Yet the thing is, what’s the chances of her h seeing it anyway?
          I dont want my h up there either.

  33. overwhelmed July 17, 2013 at 7:38 pm #

    And here it is, post # 100 in this thread. Doug asked us to do it and we have complied. ;)

  34. Strengthrequired July 17, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    Woohooo……

  35. Gizfield July 17, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

    Roller coaster, very sorry to hear that. If it’s any consolation, his Karma ass biting can begin. You did what you could, and more. About the lying, I think it just ingrains itself in them. He will be someone else’s problem now. Unfortunately, after they do so much of this they are hardly worth having anymore. They need to be with their own kind.

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 18, 2013 at 9:46 am #

      Gizfield, thanks. Sometimes I feel there can be no consolation in this sorry mess. Well, we do usually reap what we sow and the reaping process for him has already begun. I definitely did more than most would, and gave it my all. And Theresa, yes, I’m the same one from two years ago. The nice thing for me now is that I have gone through a lost of the ‘stuff’ that accompanies betrayal and adultery and now know I’m done. I’m grateful beyond words for the support I have. My h not only has hurt me and destroyed our marriage (again) but with kids, their spouses and our three grandchildren, there are 11 other individuals in our immediate family that he has done this to. Not to mention siblings, friends, those who have been cheering us on and hoping against hope we could overcome his insane choices. I’m calling myself Saw the Light as I certainly have, but I also see the light at the end of this very long tunnel. Our history began over 42 years ago, but as of 7-6-13 it’s done, I’m done and I can move ahead into a future that will be more peaceful and I even get glimpses of joy. I wish all of you good things instead of the pain and anguish and anger and all that you’re currently experiencing. I’ve been going through shades of it since the end of 2010, so I know. And for those of you who, like Overwhelmed, have children at home, I am so sorry. Even for me with grown kids, the desire to have my family together (even though it had been broken apart and crapped on by h) was one of the biggest factors in remarrying. It really sucks.

  36. Rachel July 17, 2013 at 10:34 pm #

    No court tomorrow . The ex doesn’t want me to get an increase in alimony when he gets a raise. He’s going against the judges request . Ugh! And the drama continues.

    • Strengthrequired July 18, 2013 at 12:35 am #

      Sorry Rachel, I don’t understand if he waits for his raise to come before he goes to court wouldn’t he have to pay extra anyway? I’m not in the us, so we don’t have alimony here, so that’s why I ask,
      Jus I would av thought if he goes to court before his raise it would be different. Just trying to understand what’s his problem, he isn’t making any sense continually delaying the court.

    • Teresa July 18, 2013 at 1:56 am #

      Well Rachel…all he’s doing is pissing off the judge…and letting everyone see exactly WHY you’re divorcing him! Because he’s a JERK! Bet you can’t wait to be FREE!!! :)

  37. tryinghard July 18, 2013 at 10:46 am #

    This is probably my biggest fear and source for nightmares. Yes he cheated, yes he lied, yes he betrayed me in the worst possible way, yes I am trying to forgive and it is happening layer by layer BUT I am so fearful that as you have said the lying becomes so ingrained that they can’t stop. I don’t know if he’s still “in love” with her or not. I don’t know if he misses her or not. I doubt it. I have given him every reason to go to her and he still chooses to be with me. I’ve read every possible book on infidelity and have gotten the answer to why and it’s pretty damn simple, BECAUSE HE COULD. So the whys are answered for me. There isn’t too much more I need to know. I don’t understand how once the affair is out they would continue to carry on in secret. Now they freaking know you are hurt so they can’t use the old ” I didn’t think you would get hurt because you weren’t supposed to find out!”. If you are so unhappy in your marriage get divorced but quit the damn deceitfulness! Quit acting like stupid fat third graders wanting to have your cake and eat it too!!! As for those of us who keep giving chances we need to quit it. Quit making it so damn easy for them to lie to us. Lay the ground rules and boundaries out and if they cross them, bye bye! Yeah divorce sucks and it isn’t easy especially if you have children but plenty of people have gone before us and plenty more will follow. Get a good lawyer and move on! Yeah I think there are some of us who can recover from infidelity, but not all of us. I see so many one sided relationships here. So many of us trying and the CS continuing to do what they want. It’s sad. Yes the affair partners are low life assholes, but I got to say our cheating spouses aren’t much better and yet we choose to do everything to stay with them including making ourselves sick and miserable. To what avail??? A stupid relationship? Hardly seems worth it.

    I don’t care if you stay with the CS or leave them we still have to deal with the betrayal. It doesn’t just go away because you aren’t together any more. The one thing I am totally sure of is if my marriage ends I will be able to hold my head up and know I did everything to make it work. Then I will go out and get the biggest bad ass lawyer and fight for every thing that belongs to me! I just don’t want to feel like all this effort is a waste of time and energy.

    Roller Coaster, I cannot believe you are having to have another DDay. I don’t know your story because I don’t go back that far. I am sorry for you though.

    • forcryin'outloud July 18, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

      Th, I agree with everything you are saying! My H’s OW was and probably still is a worthless, low class/self esteem, dollar sign seeking damsel in distress, but my H was an idiot, shithead, spineless bastard. And that pill I hate having to swallow every time I think of it. I spent 24 years with blinders on that he was capable of this gross negligent behavior, but now I have spent 3 yrs knowing it and trying to figure out how to salvage this relationship or more pointedly my relationship with him. I will never trust him ever again that I know. I think that’s more sad for him than me because I cannot imagine having my words and actions constantly evaluated over and over and over. And he has reached the point were he has realized I will never trust or love him like I once did. No matter what he does or says.

      Like you TH I hold my head high that I have given this my all for the sake of my family and for my belief in the vows I took. And I don’t care one bit that I looked like the “crazy lady of the village” because my heart was ripped out and shredded and he just stood there dumbfounded that his actions had such an atrocious effect on me. I truly believe he cannot comprehend the damage he did to me, us, himself and our child. And maybe he doesn’t want to…I sure as hell wouldn’t want to see that person in the mirror.

      TOWANDA my friends!

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 18, 2013 at 7:03 pm #

      TH, my D Day on July 6th was the 6th one since March of 2011. My story makes me want to puke today, so I think I will spare myself and not tell it (I am going to a gathering tonight comprised of a bunch of people who attended our remarriage at the end of last September, so that’s probably why I’m feeling particularly depressed today). Anyway, I’m sure I’ll be talking about it more as time goes by. Thanks for caring. It matters.

      • Teresa July 21, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

        RCR, my gosh, I’m soooo sorry!! I know how hard you worked to recover from the betrayal and how you fought your way back to “normalcy” , and even remarried your CS!
        So very, very sorry it’s come to this! Gather those you love close around you and just let them love you!

      • Tryinghard July 21, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

        Saw the light
        Yes I do care and its weird as you know but honestly this is the only place I find support. My H and I seldom talk about the affair. But I still have triggers and it brings me right back to square one.

        Sounds like your first DDay and mine coincide (mine was march 19, 2011) and we renewed our vows in Paris October 2012. We are together 24/7 and if there is anything left over between her and him it would be phone conversations but its not on his current phone unless he has a secret prepaid phone which he could but it doesn’t seem like it. He is a very good liar. My main sticking point is the last time he saw her was just 31 2011 and aug 1 2011 we went on a long vacation where we drove and he told me the whole story. I was so stunned I didn’t know what to do. Here I was in a car in the middle of Kansas and I was getting the whole fucking story. Well once we got back home he committed to going to the marriage counselor and tell the truth and work to put together our marriage. I also went back to work in our business where I promptly called the loan he had made her to buy a car. She sent one email in the subject line, WTF. Well I answered that email and told her wtf that her reign of terror was over, along with a lot of other things. Since then he swears he never heard from her again even after I turned her into unemployment for fraud because she was working and collecting unemployment, haha he signed the letter to unemployment calling her out. She had to pay back over $10,000. She sent one card to the house, unsigned of course, which I am sure was to get me but it didn’t work. Not a word since. Now one would think after a four year affair things would just not end suddenly. Maybe on one or the others part but both???? I’ve key logged his computer and GPSed his car and nothing. Maybe he is being honest, errr or not!

        I’m so sorry you’ve had 6 DDays. I’m sorry he didn’t take you renewal seriously. What an ass. I hope you had fun with you friends today

        • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:26 pm #

          It’s hard to imagine them not communicating with each other especiallymafter hundreds of phone calls, daily ones, to all of a sudden just stop, I guess it’s natural for us to feel that way. However maybe we can think kof it like this, our spouses threw us under a bus, al of a sudden had this hate for us after decades of marriage, without a second thought, so maybe it isn’t so hardmto bel

          • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

            Sorry hit send by accident.

            So maybenit isn’t so hard to believe that they could drop this other person just as sudden. They talked themselves into having no love for us their spouses, and they talked themselves into loving this other person, at the same time, so form them to turn around and just drop this op for the sake of us, then maybe just maybe they are speaking the truth.

  38. tryinghard July 18, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    I hope Doug and Linda are feeling confident that all of us “crazies” are holding down the proverbial fort while they are on there Great Adventure. LOL!!!! Get back Doug and Linda the inmates are running the asylum!!!

    I hope I wasn’t or haven’t been too long winded in my comments. I should probably start my own blog but I am having a helluva time navigating Word Press. UGH!

    One of my main problems is too much empathy. I’m working on that. I really am trying to become hard and uncaring. Not easy when you have never been like that. I read your stories and I just so feel for everyone of you.

    On the above comment I was feeling Roller Coaster’s pain. It is my biggest fear that through all this work I’ve been doing for the past two years everything will fall apart anyway.

    I think all you are awesome here. You all really get me thinking. YIKES maybe that’s not what I’m supposed to be doing either. UGH can’t win right?

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 18, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

      P.S. TH the empathy thing really strikes a chord. My h always knew how to play the ‘feel sorry for me’ card in a way that I have never been able to resist. This time I’m not talking to him, have put my sister who is the closest thing to a pit bull in between us so all communication happens via her, and he still tries to manipulate and passive-aggressively deal with things. And I get the fear. Boy do I. I have hung in there for such a long time.

      • Teresa July 21, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

        Saw The Light….my H has also been diagnosed as passive aggressive….and yes, I have TO much empathy, while my H has none! He’s making great strides now, but goodness….I still sometimes worry and wonder if it’s all for “show”….he seems sincere….but he’s also passive aggressive, so who REALLY knows!?!?

        I started counseling 2 weeks ago…2 1/2 yrs after Dday…because I need to learn to stand up for myself and stop letting my H “off the hook”…and to hold him accountable when he says one thing and does another!

    • Battleborn July 19, 2013 at 9:30 am #

      Trying, the lack of empathy will make you an animal. As a human being you will always be a caring empathic person, it is who you are. What you will become is someone who can step back and become a “helper.” This site is full of emotions and those who are just beginning their journey need people who can give insight as to the roller coaster ride. This is what you have become, a conductor of sorts, with a wide range of emotional insight. Like LOAF, Paula, BB2 and many more, you are a valuable resource because you do not hide your emotions. Don’t wish to become hardened and uncaring… It is not who you are. BTW, I am as hardened as they come, it is not always the best way to be.

  39. Surviving July 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    OMG
    The inmates are running the asylum

    Best laugh I had in a long time

  40. Rachel July 18, 2013 at 8:05 pm #

    Omg me too! Surviving.
    Good one trying hard! I’m telling you, I needed that laugh!!

    • tryinghard July 19, 2013 at 9:54 am #

      Surviving and Rachel
      LOL glad I could make you laugh. I think keeping a good sense of humor is paramount in life! Sometimes laughing at the absurdity of our situations keeps us from truly going insane :)

  41. Strengthrequired July 19, 2013 at 12:11 am #

    Love it TH, who knows what happens when you let the crazy loose to run amuck.

    I was talking to a man today, my little 2 yr old thought it might have been daddy, so I told him that, and he said it’s the most beautiful thing in the world hearing those little voices.
    Then he precedes to tell me how he lost his daughter not long after she gave birth to her third child, this was 18yrs ago and he said he still struggles as if it was yesterday.
    It was sad, we spoke a litttle bit, yet you can still hear the pain in this mans heart losing his little girl, and.I miss not being able to talk to my dad.
    It was showing me even more just how much my h would have suffered not having his daughters around him. He loves his children so much it would have broke him. I never want him to feel the pain this man is going through, never being able to hold his daughter again.

  42. overwhelmed July 21, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

    OK, this thread is dying. I’d like to read more about all of your experiences. So I will pose a question:

    If you could have done one thing differently during the early days following D-Day, what would it be and how do you think it would have changed things?

    • Teresa July 21, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

      Overwhelmed, I wish I would have kicked my H out of the house!! I regret that to this day, that I didn’t tell him that he had lost ALL rights to live in the house with me and my children, and that I wanted him OUT!!!
      Instead I cried and asked Why? And pretty much accepted his excuses that he wasn’t happy because of ME!!! Grrrr….still pisses me off when I think about it! :/

      • overwhelmed July 21, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

        I am right there with you on that one Teresa. I believe I found this site too late. I did the same exact thing. “Please, please, please, please, please, please. I’ll change, I’ll be better, I promise…..etc”

        Makes you feel dirty doesn’t it.

        But now we know better. We’re the better half.

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 21, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

      Overwhelmed, this is a great question and will probably provoke some very good discussion. How about you? For me, I think I’m better off looking at what I’ve learned because I have tried different things, and ultimately I came to the conclusion that it just wasn’t and isn’t about me. My husband’s choices are what brought about every D-Day and it wasn’t what I did or didn’t do. I did kick him out the first time. But I guess I wasn’t done. I took him back after about 3 weeks, some counseling, lots of tears and talk. I then said to him, “I will only do this once.” So on the second D-Day six months later, I left him and didn’t talk to him, filed for divorce and attempted to move into my future without him. One of the things that hurt the most was the fact that we’ve been together so long; it just seemed like my beautiful family and all the past we’d spent was being thrown away…and for what? He somehow slowly convinced me that he was changed, and I bought it. We decided together that we would still go through with the divorce as we wanted a new marriage, and we both wrote letters of intent to our four adult children to help them see our motives. Unbeknownst to me at that time, he had begun a second illicit relationship. We remarried at the end of last September after being divorced for six months. I had lived alone since leaving him the year before, and really was excited and happy to be able to say, “Look what God has done!” Now, another almost year has passed and I have had several more D-Days. In all this mess, my husband quit his job, therefore losing a very good income. He appears to have serious mental illness and has lied so much, not just to me and our family and friends, but to himself, the worst kind of deception. I have no idea what will become of him now. Thankfully, it’s not my problem anymore. I can be finally done, and not ask why. I now know the answer.

    • livingonafence July 25, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

      I wish I would have kept my mouth shut. It started 7 months before I found out and it ended 4 months before, but there were still the random texts here and there. Had I shut up and dug, I would have found things much easier. Me flying off the handle immediately gave him the opportunity to delete most everything. I was able to retrieve some of it, but most of it is gone. It was all electronic. She had sent him over 100 pics. I was able to retrieve about 30 of them, and none that he sent her. The texts? Gone except for about 100 that I was able to retrieve off of his phone. The fake FB account was all but destroyed. The saving grace was that he still had all the messages in his inbox from FB saying he had a message, and those contained the messages from her, so I had all of those, but none from him to her. Also, I was able to get a lot of the chat from a program that does this, but not all of it.

      I wish I didn’t lose my mind on him immediately. That’s my biggest regret. I don’t regret throwing him out at all. That’s when reality smashed him in the face.

  43. Surviving July 21, 2013 at 10:58 pm #

    @saw the light, you are back among friends
    @overwhelmed
    I found out when I heard my H telling her he couldn’t see her anymore. What I would have done different? I would have taken a leave from work and spent the time getting better emotionally I was a wreck, physically I was a wreck, that’s what I would change take the time just to concentrate on me.

  44. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 21, 2013 at 11:35 pm #

    Surviving, it is so true we as betrayed need to take care of ourselves. I have had several massages ( which normally seem like too much of a luxury) but I believe that learning I could still work after being run over was a wonderful revelation. I didn’t have to feel good to do my job, and I gave myself permission to do it less than 100% for a season. The massages were important to me because I felt so abandoned and alone in my first weeks after having left my h; I needed the touch as well as the therapy. I have a great counselor who has helped me tremendously. Overwhelmed, I think things would have been very different if my kids were young and still at home, but I just had to tell them. I am too close to them to hide this, and I felt they needed to know. The first time around they were angry, but pretty supportive of their dad. When I left after the second D-Day, they were livid. That’s why I totally understand their fear and mistrust through the year and a half since we got back together. Now three out of the four are sick of his lies, and have distanced themselves from him. I also have a large group of supportive friends. It makes a huge difference now that I’m alone again, but while we were married and trying to make it work I sometimes wished we could move somewhere where nobody knew us. I tried to suggest and encourage that a lot. Again, hindsight, now I know that h didn’t want to leave town because his mistress lives here too. Duh.

  45. Gizfield July 21, 2013 at 11:49 pm #

    I think if I ever catch my husband in contact with his nasty skank, I won’t even say one word to him.. Walk back out the door, file for divorce blast both their nasty asses on facebook and to everyone I know. Move to another state and forget either one of them ever existed. I would hate to but I would do it.

    • Tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 12:19 am #

      Giz
      Amen to that. And add to that ANY kind of disrespect not just if he hooks up with the skank again.
      Overwhelmed
      There’s not too much I would do differently. My H told me and left. Never even had the balls to talk to me. He was scared shitless. I went crazy. All the text book movie crazy. Filed for divorce that week. Emptied out the checking account. Got the meanest bad ass lawyer, went to the office and confronted the OW, almost slugged her you name it. We didn’t talk for a while. I went to California for a week and that’s when we started talking. He wanted back. The one thing I wish I would have done is hire a private investigator when he said it was over and it wasn’t. I wanted to trust him. I couldn’t imagine he was lying to me again when he said he wasn’t. He didn’t stop lying, as far as I can tell, until August when ALL the truth came out. I went to Colorado in June and that really scared him. He knew he was going to have to come clean with all of it if we had any hope. It took 6 weeks to get it all.
      Saw the light
      So all during the reconciliation he was playing you? How did you not know? Did you not use GPS, etc? UGH my biggest nightmare. We are 39 years too. Was his passive aggressiveness that he would say yes to your face and do the opposite or was it just that he couldn’t be honest, ever?

  46. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 22, 2013 at 12:58 am #

    TH, he’s always had a problem with hiding. There were the drugs in the 80s, drinking in the 90s and now the past 33 months the women. I was so codependent in the early days that I put up with being treated like crap, him turning things around. He’s a lawyer so he’s good with words. He has such a low opinion of himself (wonder why) that the only thing that ever much mattered was everyone else thinking he was such a great guy. Loved playing hero to everyone but his own family. I decided when I agreed to be in relationship again that although it was certainly a risk, I didn’t want to be always checking up on him. So I waited. The evidence just kept piling up and piling up. I really loved this man, but the disrespect is so overwhelming. He got better at covering his tracks. All I know is: trust your gut. Mine has been right every single time. And eventually he would always slip up. Funny thing is, I think he now is done with #2. It’s like it doesn’t work for him if he has to come out of the dark. If he doesn’t have a wife, too, to make him somehow look legit. On the final D-Day, 7-6-13, we actually went to her house together. She described their relationship as two cockroaches creeping around in the dark. Man, they deserve each other.

    • tsd July 23, 2013 at 6:22 am #

      Saw the light, RCR, I have been on this site as long as you, kinda hiding in the wings for months, thinking my life was on its new path…I’m five years out after dday 1 and three from dday 2, and I remember your story well…so well that I used you as a model of inspiration to make my marriage work…so your recent input made me upset, and ironically, I’ve been having issues too…it’s sad when the BS works the hardest only to fall first while the CS gets the get out of jail free card…however, I feel, we have learned the most about ourselves and will become the better person each and every time. So knowing your past, I believe you will be fine…I know your kids will rally to your side….you will be ok…I know it…just as I know I will too…I accept my husband as a flawed man who still cannot do what I ask because he cannot change. I did, and I like the new me…I will be ok too…no matter what we do, and no matter how little they do, we create our future by the past…hang in there…sorry and glad to see you on this site again

  47. Paula July 22, 2013 at 1:10 am #

    Saw the light, you are doing incredibly well, this has obviously been the worst kind of nightmare. I am so thankful you are using your sister as an intermediary, as you need this protection. I know you know it, but STAY AWAY, FOREVER, he is sick. I am also very glad you now see the light, and that he cannot hurt you anymore. Mentally ill is so right. I love how you say you even feel snippets of joy, that is precious. You obviously have an incredible heart, and an incredible family. I know how hard it has been to let all of the past, your entire adult (and then some) life with this “man” – and I use that term VERY loosely here. Thank goodness for wonderful friends and family.

    Overwhelmed, I don’t have any regrets in the actions I took post D-day. We have had several separations, three periods of a total of eight months in the first two years. We have had loving, passionate honeymoon hysterical bonding. We talked. A lot. We got counselling. A lot. I lost it with him a few times, but I never “lost it,” I feel I mostly retained my dignity! That said, I have cried rivers and oceans of tears, and they haven’t fully stopped yet! I still have the odd moment, and I wasn’t a crier before this. I don’t regret telling my kids, this is real life, they know the deal ( I had signed lease on a rental property, they had to be told something, and the truth was my only option, nine months after D-day) they are disappointed in the terrible choices he made, they were angry he did this with her, whilst they were present, feeling like fools (although they all swear they never knew a thing until I told them, but they worked out pretty quickly the “who.”) We have both been very open and honest with them, they haven’t asked a lot of questions, they have seen us treat each other with a huge amount of respect, care and love. They were young adults and early to late teens at this stage, so older than yours, but we just used age appropriate descriptions and explanations, and told them that they were ALWAYS welcome to ask either of us anything, and we promised to tell them the truth. I think seeing us treat each other with respect was great, but I was lucky and it was over before I ever found out, so he was “back” and through the selfish phase already. Like anything, trying to maintain consistency with them, when I was a complete mess, has been very difficult. But they are fine, and doing well. I just treated everything I said and did with and “to” him as I would my children, follow through on things I said I would do, consistency, he got away with nothing, no minor lies, nothing. And when we were separated, I meant it, no folding my tent, although I desperately wanted to, because I loved him and missed him completely. He saw me at my worst, and he saw my strength. And I made sure my strength was on display often, yes, I came here and vented, raged, I vented and raged at him often, too, but I tried to maintain SOME shred of dignity amongst our community (who all knew :-( ) It has meant a loss of many friendships, those I realised would never, could never understand, those who lacked compassion. I know I am better off without them, but it has been a very lonely journey.

  48. Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:11 am #

    It Is a very lonely journey, I agree with you.

  49. Rachel July 22, 2013 at 6:57 am #

    How does a father stay out of touch with his children for an entire weekend. This bothers me so but they seem to be ok with it. Yes, my boys are older but I do love spending time with them. The three of us watched their friend golf at a tournament yesterday and I had a blast. Something I have never done before.
    I feel I am hurting for my boys because of this man. I feel they were ripped off of having a good father.
    A trial date is now set for September because ex is all over the place with the divorce proposal. His argument is now against what the judge said during the pre trial.
    Ugh, more stress.

  50. overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 8:12 am #

    Paula, I didn’t really mean “regrets”, although I guess that’s really what it is. I think more importantly, it’s just about not knowing what to do when you suddenly feel like a cornered animal upon learning of your spouses indiscretion.

    For me, I lost 3 months because I was ill-equipped for the job at hand. 3 important months where I could have possibly turned things around.

    Wednesday is our first custody hearing. I can’t believe she really wants to go through with this. It’s nuts. I’ve asked her point-blank, “Do you really want to stand before a judge and explain your actions?” Incredibly, it seems like she does!

    And Saw The Light, I think my wife-ish is very similar to your husband in that she can’t seem to stop lying, her actions are nonsensical and she appears unable to understand why she does what she does. She’s almost certainly mentally ill.

    Rachel, I’m wondering the same thing myself. How does a mother stay away from her children? Oh she’s told me being away is “tearing her up”, but she doesn’t seem to understand that how she feels, how I feel is nearly irrelevant. What she’s doing is tearing up our children. And I can’t come to terms with that. A few nights ago, I found my 6 year old son in bed holding a picture of Mama, crying silently. Sheer torture.

    Thanks everyone for replying. It’s great reading these brief synopses of each of your situations.

    • chiffchaff July 22, 2013 at 11:57 am #

      When I was a student I worked on a farm during the holidays. On arrival at this very remote farm I discovered that the week before the farmer’s wife had abandoned him and their children to go and live with her OM. their boys were 3 and 7. The father was devastated and in a terrible state but those boys, it really affected me at the time just how stunned they were. they were like rabbits in headlights and their father was in no fit state to help them. Every evening after work, because I lived in the farmhouse, I used to be just inundated with these boys wanting to sit with me or ontop of me! the 3 year old particularly just wanted to be hugged all evening. it broke my heart to leave them in their situation at the end of my contract. I just could not believe that any parent could’ve left them like that. now I know what selfishness CSs exhibit it no longer surprises me.

      • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

        That’s sad, chiff. They wanted a mummy figure and chose you.

    • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:15 pm #

      Overwhelmed, I’m having trouble trying to post a reply. I’m struggling trying to get my words out. There is alot that i could say, but I keep holding my hand over my heart. The amount if times I start a post, I get to the endmof it and then delete it. I’m not sure why, but I just can’t keep it up.
      I guess I hold alot of fear in my heart, fear of what the future holds, and at times I just don’t want to know, at times I would love to forget what happened, but can’t, it s like a nightmare that I keep living. The tears aren’t as often as what they were, daily for over a year, now not very often, but thenpain and heartache, that haunts me.
      .I told my h the other night, how I wished he had never chested on me, because he tells me how he just wants to forget, and I told him that he is lucky to be able to forget, because it’s a nightmare that haunts me everyday. I wish I could forget. Well admittedly he got upset, after I told him I had lost over a year of my life. A year I wish I could forget so easily.

      • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

        I read something from a very wise person a few months back who basically said that, “…worry is useless. We worry about the past, we worry about the future, neither of which we can change. You should focus on now. Today is the only thing you can change.”

        I found great courage in those words. Easier said than done i know, but it’s a great philosophy.

        Stay strong!

        • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 8:59 pm #

          Thanks overwhelmed, somedays it’s one step forward and two step back. I often try to focus on today, but then you see all these lovely woman and men in here, who have fought for their marriages and it ends up maybe years later that it just didn’t end up lasting.
          That Is sad, that eventually no matter how much you love someone , this error in judgement that our cs had, couldn’t be repaired. Either the cs ended up cheating again, or the bs just couldn’t get over the betrayal.
          We can’t change the past, but I really hope for a bright future.

          • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

            I’d have to agree with you there. I worry that so many good people here are still struggling, some of them are years down the road, even though their spouses have professed their love for them. Mine utters no such words.

            What worries me the most. (Ha ha, i can’t even follow my own advice.) is if somehow we end up patching things up (almost impossible at this point and I honestly don’t think I want that anymore) it seems as though it would be much worse if things fall apart again down the road.

            • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 11:43 pm #

              That’s it, I think it comes down to, how committed both sides are at staying together. Can the cs stay faithful, and can the bs get over all the hurt? I guess none of us will know right away, if only there was a crystal ball, an insight into what the future holds, that shows us what we are in for.

  51. Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 8:58 am #

    I won’t ever understand how anyone can choose another person over ones children, whether father or mother. It just seems to be the normal, our spouses chose another person over their families, they tell themselves t the time, that it is them choosing the other person over their spouses and that they are notmhurting their children because they still love their children, they are blinded to the reality that their children are hurt, they feel everything, they know things aren’t right. We may try and hide the pain we feel, but don’t be fooled our children know, they feel it too. Our spousesmjut don’t see it, they think their children are ok, but the truth is they dint know, they aren’t with our children seeing them cry, misbehave, throw their tantrums, it is their way of saying to us, I’m hurt, why is mummy or daddy wanting to see me, be with me?

    The trouble is, unless our spouses see it, they dont know what’s really going on with our children, because theymreally did turn their backs on them too, for the sake of an adult that wanted to hurtntheir family, someone who wanted to destroy their family, and didn’t care who got in the way. Our children are just collateral damage to them.

  52. Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    That wasmsupposedmto say not wanting to see me.

  53. tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 10:12 am #

    Saw the light
    There is no consolation. What you should know is YOU did EVERYTHING to help him, keep you marriage together, and make things work. Sounds like he is very addicted to that “high” they get from being sneaky. You’re right you have taken away is supply by distancing yourself. I have no doubt that he loves you and you him but is that enough? I question that all the time. My H gets a high from being sneaky. He has smoked for over 40 years however seldomly smokes in front of anyone but me. His own sister and parents didn’t know he smokes. He has never smoked in front of his sons. I know the affair was his way of having a secret life. It’s addictive too. It’s sad when people choose these problems as if “normal” life isn’t hard enough. You are right too I need to trust my gut.

    Overwhelmed and Rachel
    I have asked the same question about my daughter in law. Her son is 3 1/2. He will never be cuter than he is right now and how she chooses to be away from him 5 days a week and live in a neighboring state I will never know. So many people struggle to have children or have children with physical problems and here they have a beautiful healthy son and she is choosing to screw him up at such an early age. I can only say she is spoiled and selfish. I also think being a mother is too overwhelming for her and she WANTS to be a part time Mom. People are effed up! The only thing you can do is be there for your kids. I never say anything bad to my grandson about his mother. Matter of fact I praise her to him. I will never do that to him. No matter what my relationship is with her or my opinions, she is his mother and he loves her. These spouses are effed up people. Selfish, shallow, short sighted and no matter what we do or say, they will not change. They have to want to change and it’s just easier for them to go with what’s easy or feels good for the moment. The fact is we hope that our spouses care as much about the children as we do, but obviously they don’t. Hell my H brought his mistress to work in the same place as his son!!! How effed up is that. Thought he was clever enough to keep it under wraps. Talk about an egotist. HA everyone at work knew about her and him. His son even saw it but gave him the benefit of the doubt that he would never betray me let alone with a skank like her. OK news flash, THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. And that includes their children sadly.

    Overwhelmed, I hope your custody hearing goes well. Maybe your kids are old enough to have some input at the courts, however I don’t think a judge is going to grant too much to a mother who is married to one man and living with another ON HIS FOLD OUT SOFA!!!. Not healthy for the children and that is what they always look at. Rachel your husband is acting in his own interest as usual right?? Now he’s playing the money game. I hope you have a bad ass lawyer and that you let him loose on your H!

    UGH makes me want to find a desert island and live. These selfish assholes make me sick.

    • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 2:51 pm #

      If you find a deserted island, I’ll come too, with the kids, lol

    • rachel July 22, 2013 at 7:59 pm #

      Trying hard,
      you said it these people are selfish and shallow. Sick! We need to put them on their own island together!!

  54. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 10:48 am #

    Sadly, this type of Mother is nothing new. My own mother divorced her husband for no good reason, in the fifties.she also declined marrying my father when she got pregnant with me. Left a trail of abandoned, broken children in four states. Some othert m otherherless children left when their mother killed herself due to my mother’s pregnancy with her husband’s child. What a good friend. I will watch your kids and screw your husband. I keep those thoughts to my self with my siblings. They talk about this whore like shes mother Teresa. Sad.

  55. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    I knew I sound cynical, but I spent over 30 years trying to pretend to myself that I had “daughter ly” feelings for this lady. I realized recently that I have none. I met my sister for the only time in 2005. Thats when I found out about the suicide of her father’s wife. I was done st that point but still kept trying. Then one day I just thought WHYYYYYY?

    • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 11:43 am #

      What a horrible situation. I can sympathize to some extent. While my mother-in-law was not quite that heartless, she did leave her family and I saw the effects of it on my wife-ish first hand. She hates her mother. Now she’s done the exact same thing, except our children are only 6 and 9 years old.

      • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

        That’s the thing overwhelmed, they know how hurt they were when they were left as children, yet they do it.
        My h is from a broken home, he couldn’t stand his step mother, he barely got to see his mother growing up as a child.
        He swore he would never do that to his children, he never wanted them to come from a broken home.
        Yet he almost did have them come from a broke home, and he did choose his ow over them. Time and time again.

  56. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    Yes, it is pretty vile. I dont hate her. I just have No Use for her, basically. She died in the late 90s. On Mother Day, my brother tagged me in her photo. It was always on my facebook page and I couldn’t get rid of it. it was really irritating me. I’m like I don’t want this womans photo on my page.

    • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

      Oddly enough, that’s exactly how my wife-ish would phrase it, “..have no use for her.”

      There is an untag option in Facebook somewhere.

    • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

      I’m sorry gizfield. I’m glad you had your father who made up for what your mother couldn’t. You turned out to be a wonderful person, no thanks to your mother.

  57. tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    Giz
    You’ve had your share of heartache for a lifetime but you sound like a smart strong woman in dealing with all this hurt. It’s just so hard to figure out why people make the horrible choices they make and not think it’s going to affect others. Especially their children. The only thing I can say is if they knew better they would do better. Sometimes they do know better and still choose the wrong pah. That is when we have to separate ourselves from it. My H knew better but still he chose otherwise. They come up with all kinds of excuses, “i’m not happy” blah, blah, blah, well I say grow the eff up and be responsible. My DIL did the same thing. Her parents divorced when she was 17 and it put her over the edge. She was and has been in therapy and on Lexapro ever since and then she turns around and does the same thing to her own son. I don’t get it. I feel so sorry that she is such a stupid cow!!!
    Overwhelmed
    You have to be the good one in your little ones lives. Your wife is going to have some sort of roll and you will have to deal with it for them. You have your work cut out for you but I know you will rise to the occasion. You have done everything right. You are going to be more than ok once the shit show is over. Your wife, hhhmmm not so much

  58. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm #

    Thank you, trying hard. Like everyone else, I dont see how you can give up your kids for a “piece of ass” but people do it every day. I just found an old album of my trigger’s baby and toddler photos, and I think I would marry satan if thats what it took to be around her. And thank you overwhelmed, that is odd about the phrase. I didn’t untag the photo cause it might upset my brother. He worships this woman. I just tagged another photo and it took it’s place so I dont see it.lol.

  59. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    (oops, should say daughters baby photos. Damn autocorrect android phone.

  60. overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 5:01 pm #

    I’m wondering if I should call my mother-in-law. She doesn’t know what’s going on as far as I know.
    My sister, brother-in-law and my mother met her on a trip recently. When I spoke with my mother on the phone, she could not stop talking about the change in my mother-in-law. Caring, genuine, polite…words never used to describe her in the past. She had emailed my father-in-law a few months back only this, “I’m sorry for ruining your life.”

    Even though I believe it was a mistake getting the whole family involved, I can’t help but wonder if her mother calling her and telling her what a huge mistake she made leaving her family all those years ago…..
    But no, it would probably have no affect whatsoever.

    • Tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

      Over
      I have never regretted anything I’ve said or done, well ok there was that one New Year’s Eve ……I’ve only regretted what I haven’t said or done. What do you have to lose??? I vote do it! Maybe she can get through to her.

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 22, 2013 at 5:53 pm #

      It’s so sad to hear the stories about how marriage partners fail and cheat and lie, and hurt their own children. The legacy that is being passed on in such families can be horrible. But it doesn’t have to be. We can stand for our kids and grandkids. We aren’t perfect, but we are committed and we admit our failures and mistakes, learn from them and grow up. My kids have had a dad that was very conflicted, and rather than make the choices he has made have entered young adulthood strong and wise, and I believe I’ve had something to do with that. My own mother was not a great mom. I can give her some grace now (although she’s been deceased for 28 years), because I know she didn’t have inner strength and a lot of the tools I’ve accumulated, but her alcoholism profoundly affected me. I remember so well when my kids were teens, thinking “I’m so glad I get to be there for them, I get to be the parent to them, I never had.” Parenting alone is hard, but when the single parenting is due to adultery, the pain is worse. But we are still standing. And Overwhelmed, my experience is that a cheater does not learn from the words of others. They never seem to self-apply all these lessons that abound. They are in la-la land, and they don’t want to leave it. I personally could not deal with the guilt I would feel. I think I would have taken a gun to myself long ago if I had done the things my spouse has.

    • forcryin'outloud July 23, 2013 at 12:11 pm #

      Overwhelmed,
      The only regret I have is not calling my H out on his bs behavior when i knew he was up to no good. Should have packed up my son and belonings and moved back to my hometown. Got on with my life, but I was “trying” to do the right thing and be the right person, right wife. That’s so comically now as I type those words because it was him who was not right in head, body, soul, choices, etc. My only advice is follow your gut – it will never let you down, NEVER!
      Also, as far as contacting family I would do it. I say this because my H was still lying between his teeth for months until I called his brother who let the cat out of the bag about the extent of involvement my H had with the OW. You just may get some answers you’re looking for but beware the truth can be brutal even when you want to know it.
      My heart aches for you and especially your children. My son is a tween and this has been an unfair life lesson entirely too early in life. Like many of the others I am stunned at the carnage cheaters are willing to heap on their children, the selfishness boggles my brain.

      • overwhelmed July 24, 2013 at 12:16 am #

        Thank you FCOL. I’ve learned to follow my gut for sure. It’s very odd how over time you start to trust it. You get this feeling of uneasiness which slowly grows to panic and suddenly you know. You know she’s with him. And one way or the other, be it questioning or following a paper-trail or whatever, you find out your panic was justified. You were right. Again. Sometimes, I find it quite frightening how accurate it is.

        I’m so very sorry your son has had to deal with this. I often wonder, what is the best age for kids to deal with this horror. The correct answer is never….. :(

        • forcryin'outloud July 24, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

          I’ve read she’s with him and for that I’m sorry your heart is aching. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise with my comment about “the extent of involvement.” I just know when I started digging deeper w/ family, I found out my MIL had been involved in my H’s EA. She actual encouraged it and facilitated it and involved my son (he was 8 at the time it began). She has been a huge problem in our recovery and continues to try and usurp me with my husband and now even moving onto my own mother. She’s mentally unstable and somedays I wish I could remove her from my life completely!
          These affairs are always more tragic and tangled than any of us could have imagined in the beginning.
          Again I didn’t mean to imply you didn’t know what was up with your wife-ish just that as the skeletons fall out the closet don’t be surprised who may have helped put them there.

          • overwhelmed July 24, 2013 at 5:15 pm #

            No worries, I didn’t take it that way at all.

            I was really referring to before she moved in with Mr. Sleeps-on-a-pull-out couch-Wonderful. How that 6th sense kicked it and I learned to trust it after I realized it was right every single time. Scary.

            I think it freaked wife-ish out a bit too. heh heh heh

            • Tryinghard July 24, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

              Over
              I hope you keep freaking both of them out. Also remember, the ball is in you court on so many levels. I think when Mr-pull-out-sofa realizes she can’t pay her way anymore he will be seeing little Miss Wonderful in a whole different light. My vote is on you friend. But and this is HUGE, don’t be nice! You’re probably sick of hearing my parents sayings but I really love this one and it is effing true. My mom was french but she would say, “sometimes you have to show your teeth”. Like a dog who shows his teeth when they feel threatened. Don’t roll over trying to win her back. Show you teeth and let her know you mean business.

              Now get out there and win one for the Gipper!

  61. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 22, 2013 at 5:56 pm #

    Overwhelmed, I do agree with Tryinghard that there is probably nothing to lose at this point. But more than anything, I would think about you and what you need. That would produce something worthwhile.

  62. Paula July 22, 2013 at 6:34 pm #

    Saw the Light, very true, some people have to “do” the crime to “learn the lesson” whereas many of us can learn by observation – I believe that is what happened in my case – I had seen it time and again, KNEW I could never do that – but so had HE, instead, he chose to act, to experience, he knows the devastation first-hand now!

    On a more controversial note – people who leave children, whilst we all like to lable them as monstrous – and I believe it is not a choice I would make, certainly not when they are so young – sometimes they are just downright desperate – so desperate they will even do this, to try to escape what they perceive to be a miserable life (even if it doesn’t look so bad to those of us around them.) Regrets, well, they will have a few!!! Exit affairs, even when they didn’t start them trying to exit, but just trying to temporarily escape. Incredibly sad. And DEFINITELY NOT the betrayed spouse’s fault – DEFINITELY NOT!! Just my attempt at understanding why anyone who is blessed with the care and love of children are able to act in such destructive ways.

    • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 9:14 pm #

      Paula, I think you just described my wife-ish. I’m fairly confident that with her it’s an exit affair. I never wanted to admit it to myself, but the way you described it makes a lot of sense. She has said she’s been unhappy for a long time and never meant the affair to happen. Yes, I know common response for CS’s. But your words just make too much sense to me right now.

      It’s just so unbelievably sad that my kids are the ones who will pay the highest price.

      “BLESSED with the care and love of children” Indeed.
      How many people out there would kill to be able to have a child of their own? :(

      I was sitting outside with my good friends and neighbors yesterday and their son and daughter-in-law announced they were pregnant with their 2nd child. I congratulated them and with a smile on my face told them those were the happiest days of my life. And then it hit me and I started tearing up.

      • Tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 10:46 pm #

        Over
        I have been dealing with my own misery and then my son tells me his marriage was ending. That sure made me refocus because no matter how bad you problems are, and I don’t care how old your children ever get to be, nothing tears your heart apart more than your children’s pain. Makes me want to smack that dumb ass daughter in law of mine. Ugh I hope she gets the clap! Just hearing you say that made my heart break for you and my son. He’s a great guy. Handsome, smart, funny, great sense of humor and the sharks are already circling. He’s already seeing a really great woman that I like, haha she was a french major too. Overwhelmed you sound like a great guy too and you probably won’t believe me but you will find someone who deserves you and appreciates you. Just be picky I also told my son that! Yes all CS say they haven’t been happy for years. Well lets just see how happy she is without her kids and financial security and she’s SLEEPING ON A PULLOUT SOFA! You happy now fool?

        • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm #

          Thank you. You made me sad, then ended with a chuckle.

          I wish the best for your son!

          You know, the more I read lately the more I realize that I’m really looking forward to meeting someone new.

  63. Surviving July 22, 2013 at 8:24 pm #

    Would the cheaters really want to be on an island with other cheaters just like themselves?

    • Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

      Maybe that would feel right at hime, on that island with one another. However, there wouldn’t be anyone there they could trust unfortunately.

      • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 9:07 pm #

        Now there’s an idea for a reality show. One I could actually stomach. An island full of cheaters tearing each other to shreds. Love it!

  64. Surviving July 22, 2013 at 9:24 pm #

    True, but at least they would know up front they all can’t be trusted
    And the other island would have all of us people who can be trusted

    • overwhelmed July 22, 2013 at 10:44 pm #

      …but are afraid to trust.

      Ironic isn’t it?

  65. Tryinghard July 22, 2013 at 10:48 pm #

    Seriously Doug and Linda better get their happy traveling asses back soon. We have run amok on their blog!

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm #

      Maybe we can come up with another question for each other. How about, what have you learned about yourself as a result of your spouse/partner’s infidelity? (I’m pretty sure this question has been posted before, but I have huge gaps in my memory for the past 33 months, so it will all seem new to me! :-)

  66. Surviving July 22, 2013 at 10:56 pm #

    Over,
    Heard a song on the radio today made me think of you but change dad to mom
    Cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin

    • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 9:06 am #

      Oh, there’s no way I can listen to that song right now. I know it too well. :(

  67. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    Lol, too funny, Trying Hard. I do think it’s funny they all say and do basically the same things. With a few notable exceptions. Myhusband, too, hAd not “been happy for years.” He’d sure as shit “seemed” happy , coincidentally, til he started sneaking around with the Road Whore. So what comes first, the chicken or the egg. I guess I just couldn’t compare to her Perfection, lol. Which explains why shes getting dropped like a hot potato every time she turns around. Lol.

  68. Gizfield July 22, 2013 at 11:47 pm #

    I was being a real smart ass tonite. We were watching The Bacholorette, and everytime one of them would say something like “you can’t start looking for your next wife while you are married to the first one” I would make a comment like “I heard that works pretty good, or, thats not what I heard” lol. Satan was on the prowl tonite…

    • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 12:01 am #

      Giz, can someone tell our spouses that, they didn’t hear the news report about not looking for a new spouse while still married to another.

  69. Strengthrequired July 22, 2013 at 11:54 pm #

    Giz, Th, they all say that. One of the things my h said, was ohh I wasn’t happy for years and I’m not about to live another 10years like this.

    He too certainly didn’t seem that miserable. Funny how they seem to come up with this logic when they find the thrill of a new “so called” love with the other person.

    One thing my h never wanted to forget about our life together, how interesting he wants to forget his moment in time with her, must have been really happy times.

  70. Surviving July 23, 2013 at 12:22 am #

    I have learned I’m much stronger than I ever thought. All we can control and count on is our selves. Before the EA I trusted my H 100 percent, now I live with the fact I don’t trust him, but I’ve given up all my obsessions with FB, phone records etc, and I’m much mentally healthier for that .

    • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 12:31 am #

      Surviving, I can agree with you on feeling healthier about giving p on checking phone records etc. I think it can become too much of an obsession and it isn’t healthy when it gets to that stage. I know focusing on what my h was lying about was making me sick. Its not my sickness to own.

      • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 9:09 am #

        I started a topic about this on the forum some time back. With the software I installed on W’s PC, I could see everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. It literally became an addiction. Spending at least 1-2 hours a day poring over log files and screenshots. Definitely not healthy.

        • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 11:37 am #

          So when my gut was bugging me, I also started to look at phone records. I even paid the 99 cents to a few of the web services that will give you a name in a reverse phone number directory. But I didn’t like how it made me feel, and it didn’t really help me, because my H was using text messages and my phone company doesn’t give me access to those, even though we are on the same plan. The problem wasn’t that I needed to look, to check up on him. The problem was that he never really changed and he was actually doing the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing (which is a ramped-up version of “have your cake, eat it too”). Whenever I asked him directly or just tried to talk about my trust issues, he lied. And the sick thing, is that despite our many years together he was just using me instead of letting me go, allowing me to have my own life.

    • Patsy50 July 23, 2013 at 10:24 am #

      I have also learned that I am much stronger then I thought I was, and I would be just fine without my husband in my life if that’s what to be.
      I have learned so much from this EA. Pain— it does eventually go away. Trust— never trust 100 percent but there is trust again and life can be a happy place again for me.

  71. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 12:45 am #

    My husband is getting it from all sides tonight. We were watching The Munsters, lily got a secret job, and Herman thought she was cheating, lol. There was even a touching scene where Herman was talking about how horrible it is if you think your wife is no longer in love with you, but in love with someone else. You know that had to be uncomfortable for him. Serves his ass right!

  72. Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 2:02 am #

    Giz, if our h’s have found their morals and dignity and they really regret the choices they made, then they would be feeling pretty low about what they had done to us. So these little digs that come from who knows where, whether it be in the radio, on a tv show, it will hit home and so they should feel bad, so these little gentle reminders have them not cross the line again.

  73. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 9:15 am #

    I have also found a strength and ability to have grace under pressure that I previously did not know was mine. I believe the suffering has helped me have more compassion and empathy. I discovered an ability to make good decisions, to give a second chance, and more, and to face the truth even when it isn’t what I’d hoped for. I’m now looking to evaluate things on the basis of how they affect me, and on what’s good for my life. That’s not natural for me. I’ve discovered the importance of community and support, and that I must have some outlet for sharing my story. Most important, I think, is the discovery that being betrayed and lied to can’t ruin my integrity and I don’t have to be wounded forever. I can accept a healing that, while it may take much longer than I would want, will be complete and awesome one day.

    • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

      Saw the Light, You made me think of something I’ve gained that I didn’t know I had lost because of all of this mess. I’ve gotten my extended family back. It’s not that I lost them, it’s more like we’ve all drifted apart over the years and I now feel so much closer to them and to my close friends as well. I end every conversation with those close to me with “I Love You” and feel good about it.

      There can be positives!

  74. tryinghard July 23, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    Saw the Light
    You exemplify the power of experience and gained wisdom. I hope you will continue to contribute to this site. You have no idea how much you are helping.

    I feel and have felt the same strength emerging from me as well. I now know what I want and don’t want. I hope my H stays on the honest path but he could fail too. I try to keep the the faith that he will but you know there is always that little voice warning me to stay alert.

    Can I ask, how did you find out he was cheating again? Normally they go to huge extremes learning from their past mistakes and become more covert than ever.

    TSD
    I can’t imagine going through another DDay 2 years later as I am at that 2 year mark. Why would he go back to the same behavior that caused both of you so much pain? Was it with the same person or a new one? Mostly, what the hell was his story the second time?

  75. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    My final D-Day happened as most of the rest did, with him getting careless. The cheating turned him into someone who basically couldn’t think straight, although yes he was conniving and cunning. He left his cell phone on the car seat for a few minutes and I picked it up and opened it to find a recent text series he had forgotten to erase. For the rest of that day, most of the lies came out (but to tell the truth, there are other things I think now that he lied about, and it’s hard to know. Don’t care really anymore). As for going back, I don’t think he ever really stopped. There were two other women involved, but I have begun to suspect that he’s so screwed up he has probably either been with others or is at least trolling for them. The funny thing is, this man is the opposite of macho. He has a persona that is very sweet and shy and humble, but it’s all a part of an illness that needs to be needed and never is secure in himself. But man, can he play the role. He should win an Oscar. TH, someday I’ll tell the whole flipping story. It’s long enough to be a book. Hmm…

  76. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    Yes, they always get careless. Your right, saw the light, he has a serious problem. Just glad you found out nite and not years down the road. If they set a few rules for themselves they would probably never get caught. What brought my husband down was his road whores incessant need to blurt every thought (I use that term loosely, lol) that flitted across her tiny little mind to him. And this skank thinks I’m insecure? What a joke. She wrote the book on insecurity.

  77. tsd July 23, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    Trying hard, he did go back to same woman…he is such a fool…we have been working hard for past couple years, but I’ve noticed when I try hard, he does nothing. When I do nothing, he attempts to put effort in. But as of today, I’m done working hard on us. I realized I can move on and do my own thing and can be ok. When someone makes a Mistake, the best way to correct the bad behavior is to change your habits. I have done that. He has not. I realized my marriage is not the romance I thought it was. It’s good, but after an EA it will never be great. I have changed and he cannot see he must do better. Until that happens, we just ARE…nothing great but roommates…nothing deep just superficial…nothing special just a new normal…and truth is, he created the new me…jaded, not trusting and at times, cold.. Topper is, we celebrate our 25th this fall…six months ago, I told him I wanted him to plan something..now I don’t want to go anywhere unless he fully understands this is our normal life and you’ll get more if you give more….

  78. overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 11:54 am #

    To answer Saw The Lights’ question from above:
    “what have you learned about yourself as a result of your spouse/partner’s infidelity?”

    I have learned that I have a capacity for inner strength that I never knew existed. I don’t know where it came from or how I got it, other than praying for a thimbleful to get me through the next hours and receiving a bucketful that got me through the next days. This has amazed both me and my loved ones as well.

    I suppose I found this strength out of sheer necessity. I need to be strong for the kids. Whatever the case, I am strong!!!

  79. forcryin'outloud July 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    STL’s – “What have you learned about yourself as a result of your spouse/partner’s infidelity?”

    Massive inner strength, humility, compassion, ferocious temper, low tolerance for stupidity. I found out some friends are scared to look at their own lives for fear it may happen to them or it’s happening to them and it’s too painful to admit or worse they are so shallow they think their life is too perfect to have such drama enter it. On the up side of that I found out who my real friends are and who are my “facebook” friends. LOL!

    I have the courage to start everything over in middle age (or later) if it means getting away from a person who’s willing to throw me under a semi- truck then back up over me. My H has his one chance. There won’t be another.

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

      Sorry to be so wordy today, but you struck a reminder for me…Has anyone seen the movie “The Impossible”? It’s about a family who goes through the tsunami of 2004 in Thailand. After watching the incredible pain and drama, I told my H, “I’m that woman” referring to the wife/mom in the movie who is just mauled and against all odds, survives…but she’s horribly injured and well, just to know now that he did that to me, and has done it again. I also said there wouldn’t be another chance, but I chose to believe him again. Vision is better now.

      • Disappointed July 23, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

        The Impossible left an impression on me and I thought to myself, I love like these people do. and how sad that my partner does not. I hope someday I know what it is like to be loved and cherished. Nothing is more important than the people we love and keeping them safe. All of this affair crap is pathetic, self indulgent and empty. Yesterday I was told by my h that I am one of the most petty, self absorbed people he has ever met. Projection anyone?

        • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 10:41 pm #

          Disappointed, he is talking about himself. Not you. U dint think there is anything mire petty than getting back at a spouse who apparently wasn’t worth talking too about problems in the marriage, so chose tom hurt that person in the most inconceivable manner, by betrayal.
          Now that’s petty and pathetic as well as self absorbed. So really he is looking in the mirror, it’s his reflection he is seeing nit yours.

          • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 10:59 pm #

            I agree with your assessment 100% SR. All of the things my wife-ish has complained about, all of her “reasons” really don’t amount to much of anything. They were all addressable if she had the maturity to simply talk about it. Oh she’s said she couldn’t talk to me, and on some levels that’s certainly true, but I think what she doesn’t get is before you decide to go elsewhere, you really oughta grab you spouse by the ears and ask if you’ve gotten their attention and if so, tell them. “We’re dying!”

            Because you know what, I knew we weren’t great, but I didn’t think for one moment we were dying.

            We could have fixed this, but now it’s too late.

            All of her excuses are self-justification for her own selfish actions and it sounds like your H is doing the same Disjointedness. :(

            • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 11:01 pm #

              What the hell, stupid auto-correct. Very sorry Disappointed.

              • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 11:21 pm #

                That stupid auto-correct is good for a laugh, no? I’ve been so livid when my h tried to ‘fix the marriage’ because the problem has never been our marriage. Yes, there are always things to work on. Yes, communication has been difficult. But what kind of communication can you have with someone who simply wants to make you the bad guy, then sneak around with someone else?

              • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

                Reading back on my comment, my goodness all the errors. Using the iPad so isn’t great

  80. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    Overwhelmed, it’s also really cool when you are strong just because that’s the kind of person you are (or are becoming). You may not feel strong, but you do what you need to do, what is honorable to do, what is helpful to do (including not enabling someone else’s dysfunction or horrible choices). The answers to prayer are manifold when the prayer is a sincere cry for help. His strength for my weakness.

    • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 4:38 pm #

      Thank you for that. :)

  81. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    Saw the light, I personally like “wordy” cause it makes things more interesting. Except when it is a person who says the same thing, repeatedly, like we didn’t get it the first thousand times. Or a person who tries to tell you what to do, like they actually know. You are not either of those. I would like to be wordier but using this android phone screen is a pain, lol. So I keep out short as I can, or split it into a couple of posts.

    • tryinghard July 23, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

      LOL, sorry if I’m one of those who gets a little tedious :(

      • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

        Me too…..

  82. Paula July 23, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    Never tedious, you guys. Just here, dealing with crap in the most gracious way, with strength, determination, wisdom (oh, how I love that word – even named my firstborn for health and wisdom) and guts! “Keeping it real,” lol.

    tsd, what you wrote above, oh yeah!!! With you there sweets. Mine has actually worked pretty hard, even when I have been done, but other than that, we are at about the same stage, we will be 25 years this December, so not far behind you. And I am becoming more and more independent, flying solo more and more. I like him, he’s actually a good guy, but I am not “with” him any longer. We get on as the very best of friends, “soul mates,” lol! – BTW, that is my pathetic attempt at a joke – all our friends saw us this way for two decades, we were so great! Just not sexual partners any more, I have lost that part of me. But, the thing is, I am becoming okay with that – scary, huh? ME, asexual??? WTF?? So not who I used to be. Anyhoo – yes, tsd, I am one of those who seems incapable of rebuilding trust – for anyone – after this, and boy, have I tried. I guess background of loving and in love parents split by cheating – although my father was living a lie, he is gay, and didn’t have the knowledge (extremely conservative upbringing) to understand this until he had over 18 years of marriage, farms, other assets, and four kids, and a wife who loved him, and he loved her – brutal rape by a friend of a friend, then my “friend” has an affair with my “best friend, lover, dreamboat-of-a-partner” for fifteen months, in my house, on my farm, in my vehicles, while my children were in the same house, well, I guess that makes trust hard to rebuild. Never mind, I can rely on me – mostly, lol. And I am pretty reliable, and I admire me :-)

    • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

      YOU…GO… PAULA!

      I love this: ” Never mind, I can rely on me – mostly, lol. And I am pretty reliable, and I admire me”

      Words to live by!

  83. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

    So now we get to award ourselves the award for ‘most posts in the recent history of EAJ’….Go US!

    Hope you’re having fun, Doug and Linda. We kinda miss you, though…:-(

  84. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    you know, earlier I was thinking that we were all really doing well, getting along, being respectful, posting a lot, lol. It’s really been great!

  85. Surviving July 23, 2013 at 8:31 pm #

    It’s been like one big group therapy session….

    • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

      It’s like the parents are away and the children are learning to get along.

  86. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

    We’d better not tell them, though, they may think don’t need them. We better get to fighting, or mess up the house like Andy and Opie did so Aunt Bea wouldn’t feel unneeded, lol.

    • overwhelmed July 23, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

      Apparently Doug has been the problem all along.

    • Strengthrequired July 23, 2013 at 10:37 pm #

      We don’t want them to think that we are too responsible.

  87. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 10:28 pm #

    Bingo, Disappointed, that is how it all goes around. The cheaters assign all positive traits to themselves, and each other. They gather all the negatives and put them on the betrayed so they can 1. justify what they are doing 2. Feel better about themselves. 3. Strip thebetrayed of their self esteem so they will try to “improve” themselves and “fight” for their love. Ingenious, right ? They really think they are a prize cause they found someone to sneak around with them and buy into their bullshit.

  88. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 23, 2013 at 11:15 pm #

    So right because if they ever applied an ounce of self-reflection they would have to change. Or kill themselves. My h tried to claim the way he was able to deceive and betray me continually for the past 2 and a half years while pretending all was over was ‘compartmentalization.’ No way. It’s just more lying, to himself, about the man he has become.

  89. Gizfield July 23, 2013 at 11:50 pm #

    So true, ssw the light. They want to direct all your attention to what is what with you so that you dont have any time left to focus on what is wrong with THEM. which is plenty, lol…

  90. overwhelmed July 24, 2013 at 12:02 am #

    Oh dear, what a fool I am. For some reason, I opened the folder where I’ve stored everything I’ve written for my wife-ish since 2009. I have tears streaming down my face, partially because of the loss I feel, but I think more importantly because of the utter fool I have been. I have literally poured out my heart and my soul, laid bare everything for someone I loved so desperately and in all these years since, received nothing in return except heartache and pain. What was I thinking all these years?

    I wrote this in 2009, and as usual received no reply, no reaction, nothing. How could I have not seen it. It’s so clear now. She hasn’t loved me in a long time and I’ve spent years literally begging her to love me again. No!

    For You6/16/2009

    I lay here lonely
    Hurting inside
    Just wanting to hold you
    So the pain will subside.

    I pray to God
    With all of my heart
    Awaken her now!
    Please touch me.

    You gently roll towards me
    Your slumber breaks
    Your hand falls on my arm
    And my soul rejoices.

    A simple touch
    A smile on your face
    The scent of your hair
    A warm embrace.

    These bring life to my core
    Wash away all the pain
    All I want in my life
    Is you.
    You.

    I Love You

    • Teresa July 24, 2013 at 12:36 am #

      That’s beautiful, Overwhelmed! My H could NEVER say anything like that to me, let alone write it down! Wow!
      Your wife’s a fool!! Let her go, concentrate on you and your children…like it’s been written on here before….she was gone a long time ago…any mother who could do what she’s doing to her kids…she’s selfish and doesn’t deserve to have them in her life!!

    • Tryinghard July 24, 2013 at 7:51 am #

      Over
      That was beautiful. I can relate to finding solace in a simple touch. That was beautiful. Early in marriage counseling we had to write a letter about how we loved each other. I wrote a beautiful letter which brought tears to the marriage counselor s eyes. He wrote a letter like a memo with bullet points including how he loved the meals I cooked for him. It took all of 5 minutes. We all three sat there and laughed at it. A romantic he is not. No my H could never say those thing either let alone write them. I’ve even asked him to write me a love letter and am still waiting.

  91. Strengthrequired July 24, 2013 at 12:20 am #

    I’m sorry overwhelmed, your wife-ish is a fool. Throwing away a man like you for the sake of a bum. So sorry.

    • forcryin'outloud July 24, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

      DITTO!

  92. Tryinghard July 24, 2013 at 8:33 am #

    Saw the light
    How nice that he could pull that handy excuse out of his repertoire. You know maybe that works the first time they are caught but seriously to keep using that is just insulting to you. Compartmentalization is just a marriage counselor s fancy term for “I’m acting like a big fat third grader because I want my cake and it it too”. Ssssoooo glad your not letting his excuses manipulate you anymore. Yes you have taken away his supply and I am sure he is miserable. Most addicts are once the supply is gone. What a thrill these CS have seeing two people wanting them. You’re H and mine too needs to be humbled. We and the OW has stroked their egos long enough. We talk about the CS affairing down. Maybe we need to see that we have married down. It’s obvious to me we are all too good for our spouses and they truly don’t deserve our goodness and love let alone our forgiveness.

    Overwhelmed
    Start taking care of you. See your life as better without your selfish, ego driven wife. I just know there is a wonderful, beautiful woman waiting for you. Get busy finding her. Time to call it a day. My dad always said, “don’t cast your pearls before swine”, well I think he got that from the bible but it is true and I keep that in my thoughts all the time. Keep is tuned in though. I want to see you happy and moving on from her. Your kids will be great and only because of you. I know wonderful women who have taken their step children on as their own and loved them equally.

  93. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 24, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    Wow, this blog is amazing. And I’m so glad to be a part of it. Overwhelmed, I too, have written these kinds of things through the years for my soon-to-again-be ex (how great is that title!) but the crappy thing is that for many, many years he was the card-maker, poem-writer. I literally have a large collection of the cutest, most original and artistic cards made for every occasion, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, my birthday, our anniversary and Christmas. He was also the decorator for our kids’ birthdays. It is terrible to love someone who falls off the deep end into an abyss of selfishness.

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 24, 2013 at 11:24 am #

      Oh, and p.s. I couldn’t agree more with TH’s encouragement to start taking care of yourself, Overwhelmed. It doesn’t even need to be a search for someone else. It can just be a journey of discovering the life God has for you now, with the friends and family that are good and helpful and healing. Just because wife-ish wants a disgusting existence and a momentary fling that she believes is her ticket to happiness, doesn’t mean you aren’t a worthwhile and capable person. I told a friend earlier today that I’m so glad I have seen what a faithful and committed person I am, because those qualities are always in high demand for any relationship, be it co-worker, friend, adult child, sibling, parent, or potential spouse.

  94. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 24, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    Oh, one more thing (guess I’m going to be wordy again today!) but I have to add that for me, forgiveness isn’t something I do for the cheater. It’s something I do for me, acknowledging my own need for grace and mercy as I fall short a lot, and to avoid the bitterness pit that I’m sure I’ll wallow in if I withhold it. I’m still working on that. It’s definitely not a feeling, but a choice to let go of my right to be paid back for the wrong done to me and to allow God to deal with all that. It’s really pretty freeing if we can get there. It doesn’t mean the cheater skates off, scot-free. In our case, I’m pretty sure the consequences of the choices made will last a lifetime.

  95. Gizfield July 24, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    Do ya’ll remember the book, Hes Just Not That Into You? I glanced though it at the library and one “sign” thats he is just not into you is that he is married to someone else. Simplistic, lol. If he won’t leave his wife that shows you where the loyalty really lies. Even if they temporarily forget. When push comes to shove, most spouses, even cheaters, have to be pried out of their home and marriage with a crowbar. Yet the Other Woman/Man always believes the cheater would really be with them, “if they could,” news flash, they could, if they wanted to. They dont.

  96. Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 24, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    My h’s other woman, when confronted by both of us (my h’s last ditch effort to prove to me something, not quite sure what) claimed she knew full well she was settling for an unhealthy, cockroaches-in-the-dark kind of relationship, and yet, she would say one thing and do another. I think she may have been hoping for some kind of plan B to unfold once I kicked his sorry butt to the curb. They both had some sort of fantasy about their friendship, and he claimed the power for him came in her affirming him, no matter what. Well, excuse me, I’m sorry I don’t affirm your lowlife, scumbag decisions and unacceptable, pass-the-buck and feel sorry for me attitudes.
    Nope. Not gonna do it anymore.

  97. Gizfield July 24, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

    God, what is it with the Other Woman and the cock roach analagies? Probably spelled that wrong. My husbands girlfriend also compared herself to the Might y Cockroach, and that she “would survive”. I actually laughed when I just wrote that. Lol. Not messing with other women’s husband would be a great start, honey.

  98. Gizfield July 24, 2013 at 3:03 pm #

    Since we haven’t had any new posts in FOREVER, I thought of something that might be fun, and helpful. Does everyone have an older post or two that they find to be extremely helpful to them.

    I have two, myself. One is dated May 17, 2010 and the title is The Amazing Story of My Husbands EA. ie, bus girl. i know some people didn’t like it due to the humorous nature that out was told with, but if you read all the way through this lady knows whats shes talking about. Finally figured out what my husbands girlfriend was getting out of all this, and saw her for the loser she really is. Him too, for that matter.

    The other post is dated April 2, 2012 entitled What is Limerance? This one even explained my obsession with my own affair partner/boyfriend all those years ago. And my husband and his girlfriend. And any nonsensical relationship s I know about. I even ordered Dr. Tennov’s book on my Kindle and loved it.

  99. Gizfield July 24, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Wow, these other people are a piece of work, as Momma would say. My husbands GF couldn’t even afford an apartmen t and lived on her brothers couch. Wish I’d known that when I talked to her and she called me a fat, lazy hoarder, lol guess theres a lot to do when you are only responsible for a couch… Wonder what she did worth her money. She had a job and got child support. Guess she spent it all on her psychotherapist and sushi.

    • overwhelmed July 24, 2013 at 9:36 pm #

      Giz, I doubt she was responsible for the couch. It was her brothers was it not? :)~

  100. Gizfield July 24, 2013 at 9:44 pm #

    Too tooo funny, Overwhelmed! I enjoyed that !

  101. Surviving July 24, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

    When is Doug and Linda coming back?

  102. Surviving July 24, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

    I meant when are Doug and Linda coming back?

    • Doug July 25, 2013 at 9:05 am #

      You guys are too funny! ;-) We are back!! We rolled in late Tuesday night after a great trip. We were jolted awake yesterday morning by township workers jack-hammering the street where we live. So much for the peace and quiet we experienced in the mountains!

      Yesterday was spent playing catch up – big time. It’s amazing how many emails pile up after 2 weeks – more than 1000!

      Anyways, once we get our brains to function again we hope to work on a new post today that we can publish tomorrow. In the meantime…thank you so much for all of the comments and activity while we were gone. You guys are the best!!!

      • overwhelmed July 25, 2013 at 10:50 am #

        Welcome home!

  103. Tryinghard July 24, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    LOL Surviving. Probably never and if or when they do they will disown all of us. We have taken over their blog and ruined their good names.

    Screw it. Lets all get divorced and start over. Lets blame them for leaving us high and dry and to our own devices. Doug and Linda can start a blog about camping and traveling and how to not cannabalize each other during the trip.

  104. Surviving July 25, 2013 at 12:04 am #

    Trying Hard,
    They’ve abandoned us!! They took iPad with them…. They know we have “issues”…..
    Too funny the camping forum!

  105. Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 12:23 am #

    Maybe they are enjoying their alone time behind the bushes, maybe even found a nice cave to have some quality hanky panky.
    Maybe they will send dougs ow a nice picture postcard, describing in detail their romantic travels, just to rub it in her face, and to show her she has nothing over Linda.

    Goooo Linda, show these nasty ow that the good wife can win over a dirty ass home wrecker.

  106. Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 12:26 am #

    Just to say Doug Linda, I’m so very happy for you guys, enjoy yourselves, you both deserve this time, you both have worked hard and have come so far.

  107. Gizfield July 25, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    Yes welcome back. I thought we might have to issue an APB. LOL. We were good though, for the most part. Glad you had a good time !

  108. tryinghard July 25, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

    Yeah Welcome Home Doug and LInda. Man we tore. it. up. when you were gone! Totally dominated your blog and probably scared off some readers.. Poor “Was in a Fog” got raked over the coals and probably won’t be coming back :( Sorry, but man those OW/OM are sure easily scared off. LOL most cockroaches are easily scared. Looking forward to hearing about the trip.

    • Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 5:03 pm #

      Welcome back Doug and Linda, two weeks when your on holidays goes wa too quick. Enjoy getting back into the swing of things.

      Th, I was thinking tha yesterday, we certainly did give poor in the fog a hammering. Yet these om/ow can’t expect us to just keep taking the bs and just leave our spouses for them.

      • overwhelmed July 25, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

        What thread was that in? I must’ve missed that one.

        • Tryinghard July 25, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

          Over
          It’s on the June 21 post. You should go see it. Ruffled my feathers:). That’s okay though she is no match for me!

          • overwhelmed July 25, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

            No match for you? I’ll say!
            Wow, that was something else. I’m very impressed with your reply TH.

            Not sure how I missed that. I participated in the 1st half of that one and missed the rest.

        • Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 8:32 pm #

          Overwhelmed, this one

          http://www.emotionalaffair.org/after-the-betrayal-should-you-stay-or-should-you-go/

  109. Gizfield July 25, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    I dont think any thing inappropriate was said, I’ve had worse said to/about me, lol.

  110. forcryin'outloud July 25, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

    Welcome home Linda and Doug. Glad to see the bears let you come back. :-)

  111. Rachel July 25, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    I wish a bear would take my ex husband away!!
    My boys and I are going away for a few days. Been looking forward for this for a long time. Ex found out and told my oldest that he wishes he could come and would like to pay for us to stay an extra night???? Wtf!!! This man is a nut case!

    • Tryinghard July 25, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

      Ok Rachel that made me laugh because I was visualizing your H with his phone in his hand texting and a big ass grizzly comes up behind him and takes him away!!! We are all cheering for the bears!

      Isn’t he quite the hero. You know that’s the card he’s going to play just to try and win the boys. Tell the boys well he can come if he wants. Call his effing bluff. Sure he can pay for an extra night, tell dad to give you his credit card. I’d call his bluff every time and make him wiggle his way out of it. He knows you will protest and he will look good. Ugh what a narcissist

      • Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

        Hang on, if he wants to go away with you then he should be paying for the whole trip not, just a damn night.
        I agree Rachel, he is only wanting ti play the hero card wit the kids, he wants to show the boys that he really wants to be with the family, but your mum doesn’t want him to. He wants to show the boys that it is all your fault he isn’t home.
        I would all his bluff, but say if he wants to come, is he going pay for the whole trip? Let’s see how he finds an excuse on not coming, let’s see the excuse he throws at your boys as to why he can’t go.

  112. Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    Ok, here’s a question for you lovely ladies and gents.
    Have ay of you been able to really concentrate on anything that requires time.
    For me, I’m trying so hard to get my study in for a diploma course I’m doing. Normally I would have been able to breeze through it without a second thought. I would have been able to remember things. Now I can’t focus, it is pretty annoying because it’s not me, but I just can’t get myself to focus, to have what I read sink in, all I read is blah blah blah and more blah.
    I’ve noticed it’s the same with names. I meet people they share their names, yet for the life of me, I cannot remember their names. Like today, there is a man who I have met a couple of times, have spoken to in quite lengthy conversations with, we ll he came up, waited for me to get out of my car to say hi. Honestly, I don’t remember his name, he remembers mine, I felt awkward with how to greet this man, so go to shake his hand. Next thing he leans in for a kiss on the my cheek. Now he is a lovely guy, and someone who is so full of energy and positivity, which let’s face it, I need that sort of energy around me right now to boost my energy up, but it’s like I have forgotten how to communicate with others in this sort of situation, I can’t remember names and I can’t for the life of me focus.
    Normally, I wouldn’t have felt uncomfortable with this kiss on the cheek, as I know it’s nothing, but I feel as though I have lost this comfortableness around people.
    Is anyone else feeling this way, or is it just me. I feel like I have lost all senses on how to function in the real world.

    • overwhelmed July 26, 2013 at 9:22 am #

      I find myself completely losing my train of thought mid-sentence. This happens with alarming frequency.

      • Strengthrequired July 26, 2013 at 9:38 am #

        Overwhelmed,am I glad I’m not the only one. Totally feel like I have lost the plot. I dont like not being able to concentrate, but this is ridiculous. Hopefully it doesn’t last too much longer, as I only have 3 yrs to complete my diploma, yet I should be able to finish it within a year. I really don’t want it to take 3 yrs. Lol

    • tryinghard July 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

      HUH, what, What were we talking about??!?? OMG I totally crack myself up. Yes SR constantly and it was a huge red flag for me to knock it off. No matter what is happening emotionally, we have to continue with our lives, jobs, school, responsibilities. Life does not stop just because we have jerks in our lives. We are giving this wayyyy too much power and it starts to control us. I actually tell myself out loud “focus”. What you are doing getting your education is hugely important to you personally and it is vital for you to continue your education. Not only for you but for your children as well. I went back to college when I was 30 and two small children and graduated 5 years later with two majors. My H and I were having problems back then so I made sure I got my education in case I ever needed to support myself by myself. This has been the singular best thing I have EVER done for myself.

      I find I have the most problems in social situations. I am at a loss for words in groups of people so I don’t say anything. So not how I used to be. I just feel tongue tied, self conscious, etc. The thought of going to a party makes me very nervous. I went to a party last month and honestly went over every conversation in my head with everyone I talked to hoping I didn’t do or say anything wrong, insulting, offensive etc. I think it’s called paranoia. Just easier for me to opt out!!

      I am sure you are a very beautiful woman with a very beautiful soul. That man that kissed you on the cheek saw it. Take it as a compliment. I know you would never let it go any further so just relax about it. Who cares what his name was, he was nice to you and damn it all we need that right now. Personally I like the guys at Starbucks and the health food stores that are nice to me!!! I don’t know their names either.

      • Strengthrequired July 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

        Th, That really nice of you to say, and I love your sense of humor. We have to remember no matter what life throws t us, we need to keep that.
        In relation to the study, I thought this will be my test at seeing if I can handle a bachelor degree in counselling or psychology. I’m starting o be glad I chose this first, I don’t know what I would have done finding out I couldn’t concentrate doing something like my bachelor degree. I really would have felt like a failure.
        As for the man that kissed my cheek, well although it was just a greeting kiss on the cheek, funny how something so innocent felt so wrong to me now since my h ea, as it never would have felt wrong prior. However I ave always been the sort while being married, if I was driving along in the car or whatever and some guy pulled up next to me and want to chat, I would pretend not to see them and put my head down. I never wanted to put myself in the wrong situation.
        You know something, I think if m h and I ever separated I wouldn’t have a clue on how to date again, it is a scary thought for me. Funny how cousin it was able to throw herself at my h after being married for 20 yrs before she decides to leave him, even though he wax supposed to have been abusive to her. Here I am wouldn’t eve know what to do and how to act. Funny that.
        In any conversation I have about her to my h, it’s always cousin it, I have been dying to send him a picture of the hairy cousin it and saying here is cousin it, this ones cuter and nicer lol

    • Saw the Light (formerly Roller Coaster Rider) July 28, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

      SR, I was just saying today that sometimes I am so uncomfortable I want to crawl out of my skin. It really is pretty horrible. As for forgetting things, yes, all the time, but I have been using this website called Lumosity which involves games for brain training and it has helped my memory a lot! And this in the middle of my last and final D-Day earlier this month. I also have the tendency to lose focus when it comes to getting things done. Sometimes I think it’s just pure grief.

      • strengthrequired July 28, 2013 at 11:12 pm #

        STL, I think it is largely to do with grief, life as we knew it, is no longer life as we knew it. I find it pretty hard to concentrate, it is so annoying, especially when I am trying to improve my life. Good thing I have three years to complete my diploma, looks like I may need it.lol

        I haven’t been well for the past few days, my two youngest have been sick too, yesterday my gorgeous h, looked after me at the same time looking after the sick kids too, as well as th not sick kids.

        It was nice being looked after for a change, because I could barely sit up.

  113. Strengthrequired July 25, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    Ohh and Doug, a question for you.

    You know how us bs go through trauma from the cheating. I would like to know, do you in someways think you were traumatized too?
    I feel my h has been traumatized by it, in a different way to me, I feel he is still struggling to deal with the whole mess it left behind. I see it.

    • Doug July 26, 2013 at 8:56 am #

      I don’t think I really felt traumatized if you look at the strict definition of the word. But, yes at one time I struggled with the guilt from all that I caused. Still do at times. I must have missed your description, but how is your husband struggling? Is he depressed or what? I’m sure there are cases where a cheater loses his/her family, job, friends, money, etc. and can indeed suffer trauma as a result.

  114. Strengthrequired July 26, 2013 at 9:31 am #

    My husband has been struggling keeping our business running,working more than 12 hours days 6 days a week just so we dint kiss our hime, bills paid, having our two eldest children living outmof our home due to our move. His body is showing him that he can’t keep this up, yet he tries to make amends to me so we don’t lose what we have built over 20 yrs of marriage, as during hisnea, he was unable to “work”. So alot of what he is trying to do is guilt driven, I believe.
    For me, I see him struggling, emotionally, physically,and I know that he was depressed before this ea happened, yet I think it has added to his emotional wellbeing, him trying to be the best husband, father, provider, business man, and ploughing through each day, not complaining, as in his words, he believes he deserves all this struggle.
    Yet I see his spirit, the light that he had before his ea is dim.
    As for me, I would prefer to have my h healthy, without the stress of trying to keep all of our possessions, I would prefer to have him around for many years to come, knowing that he isn’t working himself into the ground before his time.
    Unfortunately, my h would take that as failure. That isn’t how I would see him.
    So it was just something I was thinking about, especially if the person was depressed and was vulnerable enough prior to having an affair, but then after the affair find themselves riddled with more guilt, more stress, finding that their problems have been made worse not better, the damage it caused those he cared about. I can only imagine that it would be traumatic for that person, because it was by their own hand, and for someone who never would have imagined hurting anyone I can only imagine once reality hits how devastating that would be for them.
    So that’s my reason for the question.
    As a bs, sometimes we tend to forget the full impact an affair has on our spouses, because we can’t believe what they did, so it would have to be just as hard to believe and comprehend for the cs.
    So thank you Doug, for answering, I believe more now that it can be possible for a cs to suffer trauma to some degree, even if it is ever so slight.

  115. Paula July 26, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    SR, you wanna see how this has physically aged my partner – he sounds a bit like yours, he is a little more forgiving of himself, but working himself too hard, and I can’t stop him. He has lost just as many friends as I have over this – we don’t see many real, live people anymore, lol. I have also aged badly – I used to be the spriteliest, bubbliest, sparkliest person, looking a decade younger than I was, and the truth is, happiness is beauty. I see it every time I look in the mirror. It is one of the things he said to me a lot, especially in the early years, “I made you lose your sparkle, how can I help you get it back – you were so glittery and positive before.” Only I can do that. And I try every day – mindfulness, noticing the tiniest pleasures, or glimpses of warmth. Of course, a genuine person who made a mistake, as opposed to the serial, unrepentant types of cheaters, will feel some small amount of trauma-like feelings, they have effed up a lot, including their own sense of self, safety and well-being. And I DO have huge sympathy, and realise that it is kind of like a mental illness, a mistake they never “intended” to make, that kind of just “happened” – of course it didn’t, we are all in control of our choices, but kinda? I guess, I see a one night stand as a “mistake” and a long term sexual affair as just making hideously selfish choices, no longer a mistake. Sorry, just blah-ing on – two essays due next week, one finished, and the one I am hating only just started, ugh! Better stop procrastinating ;-) I hear ya on the concentration! And I have been “talking” about finishing one of the four degrees I started for years, doing it now, actually , a different one – but got a whole year cross-credited from other papers in other degrees begun (I know, I am not particularly consistent about study, law, commerce, vet, now Social Sciences!) – and it is not giving me as much pleasure as I hoped, but I am at least committed to this semester. I just have huge, overwhelming waves of self doubt, which almost bring me to tears, daily, and that is NOT who I used to be, I used to be a world beater (at least in my head :-) ) Pisses me off, this crap, lol!

    • Strengthrequired July 26, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

      Ohh with my h, he is genuinely a good kind hearted person, one that lost the plot…..

  116. Strengthrequired July 26, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

    I hear you Paula, it pisses me off too. From all the stress and depression I have had over the years, I had the grey hairs starting to spread, but you know over the last year, I swear the grey hair amount have tripled thanks to my h ea. I don’t think I faired to well with the light turned out completely with my spirit.
    Your right it’s up to us to find that spark in ourselves, it’s for us to work on.

  117. strengthrequired July 28, 2013 at 11:15 pm #

    I started a few days ago, along with my h, where we both have to say 3 things we are grateful for each day, holding by doing this we can focus on all the good in our life.
    Let’s face it, there is alot to be thankful for when we just open up our eyes and see past all the bad.

  118. Sammers August 1, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

    This is off topic but I’m new here and don’t know where else to post to get some opinions/advice. My fiance of 8 years recently had 2 affairs (one with his married cousin he flew out of state and spent 4 days f@%$ing while I was getting a root canal). I’m 2 months into discovery. We were going to get married in Jamaica in a few weeks. He still wants to go to “reconnect/rebuild”. I don’t want to, it feels like impending doom as opposed to a great vacation. We went when we first started dating and it was wonderful. Now though, what should’ve been our wedding and honeymoon seems less than appealing to me even though I know all of the sites and books say a vacation is a good thing. Also, should mention I have to work it – I teach the fitness classes at the resort and we get to stay for free. Another reason I don’t want to go, it’s really not a vacation for me especially since I now have triggers that I can’t always control and I’ll have staff and vacationers observing me the whole time. What’s worse is not only do I feel pressure from him telling me it’ll be good for us, I feel inner pressure from me because I feel like I should want to go but I don’t. I don’t know what to do. The last trip we took, he was thinking of her most of the time and I had no idea. He even brought up Jamaica when he was still with her so this whole thing, to me has her written all over it and I don’t see how this can be a good thing for “us”/me.

    • tryinghard August 1, 2013 at 2:05 pm #

      Sammers
      Since you are new here you probably don’t know so I will warn you. I will tell you bluntly and like it is. There are so many red flags in this post I can’t even begin to know where to start so I will keep it to few words. Short and sweet. GET THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM!!!!! Do not go on vacation with him. Go by yourself and for crying out loud whatever you do DO NOT MARRY HIM!!! An 8 year engagement should be your first indication this guy wants his cake and eat it too. I’m sure you are a beautiful,smart, young woman, you do not need this in your life. Why would you want to start you life out with a known cheater. Do you two have children? Please say no… It is very hard to do this and if you don’t have that much invested either financially or family, get the hell out. There are wonderful people out there. I know you probably love him but trust me that is not enough. Plan your vacation to Jamaica and don’t tell him. Yes a vacation will do you good but NOT with him. You need to get away from him and think this through.

      I warned you :)

  119. Sammers August 1, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    tryinghard
    Sorry, we’ve been together 8 years, not engaged for 8. No children. Wasn’t planning on marrying him since I discovery. We are in counseling and to his credit, he stood there and allowed me to scream and cry for the past two months while he cried and puked several times (at the thought of effing his cousin and how sick he was to do it). He has changed jobs, shut down all email accounts except one that is both of our names, changed phone numbers, called her husband to apologize to him and come clean, told his immediate family so they don’t give his new info to her, etc. I am guessing because I don’t feel I can trust my judgement right now that he is extremely remorseful – doesn’t change what he did and certainly doesn’t change the fact that I am extremely leery of him now. I also don’t get this part of it…I have 2 masters degrees and was attending Hopkins for a third which my full time job was paying for when this happened. I have a side dance fitness business and am an ex pro football cheerleader (still a size 4). His cousin is married, fat, ugly and dumb as a rock. Has no job and didn’t even call her 4 kids while she was effing him on vacation in Chicago to see how they were doing. He says he was “confused” at the time and had a hard time deciding who he ultimately wanted to be with – can anyone figure this one out? The cousin wanted him to move in with her and the husband and kids and continue the affair thinking no one would know because they’re cousins. Uh huh…My degrees are in science so I enjoy logic – can anyone find the logic in this because I can’t and it drives me up a wall somedays.

    • tryinghard August 1, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

      Sammers
      Well if there is any logic in any of this please let me know as well. I’ve turned this mess upside down and inside out trying to find the logic. I’ve read 20 books on the subject. Do not look for logic because there is none. You want logic? Here’s a simple succinct syllogism for you: All Cheaters Are Assholes, Some men are cheaters, therefore your man is an asshole cheater!!! Sorry it doesn’t get any better or simpler than that. There is no rhyme or reason they do it because they can, they want to and they think they are so clever you will never find out!

      Men affair down. He could impress her. You intimidate him blah blah blah…. She’s a delusional sleazy whore just like all the other OW here on this site (Not you Eyes Opened :0). How about the sleaze bag Jessie James who cheated on Sandra Freakin Bullock?? What about the creeps Anthony Weiner is sexting with compared to his beautiful accomplished wife. It’s not about you. Yeah we can kind of understand it if it’s some beautiful siren beckoning our mates and poor things just couldn’t resisit. That only happens in movies. You say he’s had two? Well those are the only two you know about. No you won’t ever trust him again and I take it you are a young woman. Do you really want to live your life with that in the back of your head? Because it will be there. It will ALWAYS be there. He’s a creep, you’re not!!! Go to Jamica, TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!!

  120. Gizfield August 1, 2013 at 3:08 pm #

    You said he had 2 affairs. What are the details on the other one?

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