When Your Husband Gets the Other Woman Pregnant

By Sarah P.

Wives, knowing what your husband has done with the OW, does not have to ruin your marriage.

Linda and Doug have been receiving many emails lately where wives have unfortunately found out their husband’s mistress is pregnant OR their husband already has had a child with his mistress/OW. So they asked me if I’d like to create a blog post on the topic.  I said absolutely!

This is going to be a very harsh and unforgiving post for “other women” of this world. But, it is going to be even more unforgiving for the “other women” of this world who make the choice to go off their birth control and who intentionally get pregnant.

Today I am going to write about the icky realities of what happens when the other woman gets pregnant. Note: married men are half of the problem in these situations. So, I will talk about them later in the article. Finally, I will discuss what options wives in these situations have.

Let’s just dive right in….

A Message to the Other Women Who Get Pregnant or Plan to Get Pregnant

In this modern age where you can get an IUD that lasts 10 years and costs very little money, it always amazes me that other women pretend pregnancy just happened.

Oops. They spilled the milk – sorry—things happen.

Pregnancy is not a simple as spilling milk. It is more than an “Oops, these things happen.”

Getting pregnant with a married man’s child, is simply the ultimate tactic to poach another woman’s spouse.

If any mistresses are reading this and have gotten pregnant by a married man, please do not tell me that you are just so fertile that IUD’s, birth control, and condoms are no match for your Fabulous Fertility. You are lying.

I too have Fabulous Fertility- the second I am off the pill and have one experience with my husband, a new child is conceived. I have learned how to ensure that my Fabulous Fertility is under control.

So, if you are the other woman, please do not tell me that this was an “oopsie” on your part. Please do not tell me that your fertility is a thing of legends and you can get pregnant if a man stares into your eyes from across the room. I bet you say your uterus can slay dragons too.

Other women of the world: you know that is not how it works, so please do not pretend to be an innocent ingénue. Please do not pretend that you were jogging in the park, minding your own business, tripped on a rock, and then suddenly found yourself grinding your body on top of a married man.

Woman to woman, we both know that is not how it happens.

Considering there are studies that demonstrate many women of the world prefer married men, drop the act. I know how it went down. You pursued him—you hoped he would leave his family—he did not. You intentionally got pregnant.

Other women of the world, you knowingly got involved with a married man. Maybe it was because you fooled yourself into believing this person who was cheating on his wife was your soulmate. (Not a very smart move on your part—your soulmate is someone who ruins the life of his family and who lies and cheats? That says a lot about you.)

Or maybe he was one of those sad, sad, sad men who told you with lowered and ashamed eyes, that his wife never had sex with him. Ever.

His five kids? Oh, those were conceived simply by looking at his wife. They never actually had sex.

You see, it turns out that his wife was actually more like a common cuttlefish. The wife wore her eggs in her face and waited for his face to deposit sperm into her face eggs. He just deposited sperm into her face eggs with his face tube, but they never actually had sex. See a humorous video about the cuttlefish where they demonstrate face-mating.

But, alas, the man is only a mere human and so is his wife. So he could not possibly have face-mated with his wife.

That act is reserved only for cuttlefish. In fact, cuttlefish are also monogamous and more intelligent than most human beings are. Just go to your local aquarium, find the cuttlefish tank, and start holding up your fingers.

The cuttlefish will communicate back by mimicking the gesture and holding up it’s own face fingers. No joke.

I went to the Monterey Aquarium and did this with the friendly cuttlefish in the tank. The aquarium employee said they were a tank full of males. (Poor things). She pointed out how the one cuttlefish I was speaking with (via holding up different fingers) was changing colors in an attempt to show me how he had it goin’ on. He thought himself to be one handsome cuttlefish and liked my fingers.

Talk about open minded. The cuttlefish males are so desperate; they are willing to seduce a human hand, which I suppose could look like a cuttlefish in the right lighting. But, at least when a cuttlefish finds its sweetheart, he is monogamous.

Onto the less monogamous species, humans…

We never have sex…

I have spoken to the wives in these situations where a man claims to have never had sex with his wife. (Doesn’t that mean the marriage can be annulled?) Moving on… the wives of such men have usually told me they were having very frequent sex with their husbands.

So, why would you believe a man who is a liar and who is trying to get your sympathy? If he is lying to his wife, he is telling you—a stranger—the truth.

You don’t think he was capable of lying even though he was capable of cheating with you?

Wow, it’s your lucky day!

I have some unbuildable swampland in Louisiana where you can build a future casino, if you would like. Funny thing that this actually happening—building a casino in swampland, correlates to the very odds that a married man will actually leave his family for you.

Around 90% of cheating men choose to stay with their family (if they have the choice and aren’t left by their wives.) But, if their wives leave and you marry them, you will be just “another relationship.”

The cheater you married will be bored before you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and off he will go on his steed searching for yon sexual conquest.

At one time or another, you will probably figure out that the cheating man will not leave his family. Hint—it is around the time he starts giving you a million reasons why he cannot divorce.

Maybe his wife broke her toe, maybe his wife stepped on a garden snail and is overcome by grief, maybe the dog barfed on the carpet and your married lover cannot leave until the new carpet arrives. But, he and his wife don’t have the cash in the bank to buy new carpet, so they need to save up for new carpet—and that may take years. Re-carpeting a living room costs millions of dollars.

You have probably developed a deep hatred for the evil wife who stands between you and your fonfon ru. (Futurama reference, equivalent to soulmate.)

You are so frustrated and you want to have tadpoles with your fonfon ru.

So, getting pregnant with a married man’s child somehow seems logical to you. It does not sound logical to me—it sounds like the biggest nuclear bomb you could ever drop on a person’s life and yet you do it willingly.

And if you succeed, you will have to live with your choice and so will a bunch of innocent people who will get emotionally obliterated in the fall-out. It will be the emotional nuclear winter of your life and theirs.

But, that is okay because that married man is being held hostage in a tower in Beverly Hills by a wicked witch aka his wife. Having his baby will prove to him that you are the Princess and he will gallop towards you on his white horse and breathlessly ask you to forgive him for not seeing that his wife was the wicked witch all along. Gosh, that wicked witch of a wife cast a spell on him and you having his baby will break the spell!

Sorry, it is not how life works.

Your life will NOT be happy. In fact, your life will be hell.

First, he will probably not leave his wife. If you have a child, his wife will double-down, turn into a grizzly bear, and try to protect her cubs. The wife’s mother bear instincts will kick in and both you and your cub will be her target. Why is that?

Because you are trying to steal what was never yours to take. The wife was never a wicked witch. She was always the princess and you got played. Sure, you might get the state to garnish his wages, but you will be ostracized. His wife will not allow him to see your bastard child born from your affair with him.

There will be no Christmases and birthdays or anything else where daddy attends. You will have a very, unhappy life.

No matter what the affair statistics and what some evolutionary psychologists say, our minds, the structure of a functional society, as well as a peaceful future depend upon monogamy.

Cheating is not proof that people are genetically wired to be cheaters. Cheating is one of many destructive behaviors in which humans engage. Here are some other destructive behaviors in which humans engage but these behaviors are NOT hard-wired:
• Gambling
• Taking addictive substances
• Alcoholism
• Being abusive
• Embezzling money
• Promiscuity/sex-addiction
• Beating their children or pets
• Stealing from family members
• Sexually abusing children or animals
• Emotionally abusing others
• Refusing to be empathetic
• Being jerks
• Abusing the elderly
• Robbing banks
• Becoming televangelists
• Having their dog have potty breaks on the neighbor’s lawn

All of those things (except for the dog doo-doo on the lawn) are considered psychological disorders of one kind or another by the vast majority of psychologists. They fall within a five-axis system that help psychologists identify and treat each client in a successful way. No two clients are alike.

A small part of the population has a genetic disposition that might cause them to have a higher risk of behaving in unhelpful and destructive ways. But, a genetic disposition does not make the man.

Genetic dispositions do not have the ability to control us.

Also, only small parts of the population have such dispositions. These people are not “the norm” as in “normal.” The world normal simply points out that most people universally behave in certain ways—the norm.

But, here is the most important message. Push everything else aside and consider this: if you willingly had an affair with a married man and are carrying his child to manipulate him, you qualify as evil.

Here is why: you are bringing an innocent life into the world who is going to be used as an object. You are having your child so that you can use this innocent soul in your cheating chess game. You intentionally get pregnant thinking you can manipulate the married man by sending baby pictures and saying the baby misses his dad. This is one of the highest forms of evil—bringing an innocent being into the world for your selfish gain.


Sandrine’s Sad, Sad Life

I know a woman my age that is the product of such a relationship. Her mother targeted a wealthy, married man and hoped she could break up his marriage and make him leave his four children and wife. He was happy to have sex with this woman’s mom occasionally, because he was using her.

This was not enough for the woman’s mom. She believed that if she got pregnant, he would leave his wife and four kids for her (the mistress.) So, she got pregnant and gave birth to the woman I know. (Let us refer to her as Sandrine.)

When Sandrine was born, she and her mother lived in poverty. The married man paid bills sporadically because he had to hide this child from his wife and family. Sandrine’s mom was basically lazy and selfish and did not want to work. Sandrine’s mom had many affairs with married men, hoping one would leave his wife. None did.

Sandrine lived her life watching a parade of men come in and out of her mom’s life. As Sandrine got older, many of those men her mom brought home attempted to sexually molest Sandrine. She had to fight them off since her mom did not believe her.

Sandrine never met her dad. Sometimes her mom would stalk the house that Sandrine’s bio-dad owned with his wife and family. Sandrine got glimpses of her bio-dad here and there.

When Sandrine’s mom tried to confront the wife, the husband told his wife that Sandrine’s mom was crazy and was trying to blackmail them for money because they were a wealthy family. The wife believed him.

Sandrine had a narcissistic mom, Sandrine had to fend for herself, Sandrine focused on school and the day she could attend the university.

As an adult in her late-40’s, Sandrine goes from man to man. The last time I heard from her, she was somewhere in the Caribbean with a boyfriend from France. His problem was that he was too kind to her—so kind that she did not want to marry him.

He had a solid job and money—he wanted to marry her, have a family with her, and to care for her. I met him and he was a very solid person. He had his act together and I could not imagine him abandoning Sandrine even though she pushed him away.

What happened to dear, old mom?

Sandrine’s mom?

Well, she died of cancer all alone and on welfare. Sandrine’s bio-dad never even acknowledged it. Sandrine’s mom had been dead to him for years anyways. Her mom was one of many sperm repositories.

Sandrine’s mother chose to get pregnant to use Sandrine as a pawn to force that married man to leave his family. As you can see, life did not work out well for Sandrine or her mom. Sandrine is innocent in all this and her mom was a selfish narcissist who saw Sandrine’s only value as a pawn to break up a marriage. Using a child in this way is one of the biggest acts a woman can commit.

Mistress, let’s say you got pregnant and claimed it is not intentional.

I do not believe you.

But, let’s say for laughs you know how to seduce married men, but you don’t know how to use birth control. That does not speak well for you in terms of being a reliable parent. If you can’t put a condom on your male lover, you probably cannot open soup cans or milk cartons either.

If that is the case, I beg you to give up your parental rights, give your child to a two-parent loving home where the couple is unfortunately infertile. Those people want a child more than anything in the WORLD. They will love it and NOT use it as a human pawn for the purposes if blackmail.

Yes, it takes two to tango, but it is evil to get pregnant intentionally to try to trap a married man. Your child will live a life of hell and you should have such a child taken away and given to a stable family.

See also  Video: Meeting the Needs of Your Spouse

Here is an addended story from an Australian newspaper about how her pregnancy worked out with her married lover:

“I MET Dean* at a friend’s party. There was an instant attraction between us. I checked his wedding finger, no ring. When he asked me out I said yes. I fell in love very hard and very fast. Then I found out he was married with two children. He told me over dinner. I cried. I stormed off. When he arrived at my unit the following day, I opened the door. I couldn’t turn off my feelings for him. It was too late.

We started seeing each other a couple of times a week. He’d take me out for dinner; we’d spend the night in a hotel. He’d leave in the early hours. He’d tell his wife he was working late. Yes, I felt guilty about it — if I let myself think about it. I blocked it out. I didn’t see him at Christmas, New Year or Valentine’s Day. None of that mattered to me. I knew he had a wife. I let him get on with what he needed to do. He made time for me when he could and I always loved spending time with him. He took me to Paris for our first year anniversary. It was a short trip. I didn’t care. The thought, the love, the commitment, it was there. I was madly in love. We dated for six years. I knew he’d never leave his wife. As time went on, I adjusted to my new normal. I was happy. He was happy.

Then it took a turn. My period was late. We’d been careful and always used condoms but nothing is 100 per cent reliable, I know that. I knew he loved his wife, he had no intention of leaving her and I’d never thought that was what I wanted.  But, that changed when I found out I was pregnant. I wanted the baby. I knew I couldn’t keep it.

I went to the clinic with a girlfriend who sat in the waiting room while I went in. Tears ran down my face as we walked back outside to her car. She stayed that night with me to check I was OK. I said I was. I wasn’t, of course I wasn’t. The grief was overwhelming. It was a wake up call. I never knew what I wanted until this point. I know that sounds selfish. I never knew I wanted a baby until I couldn’t have it. I could never have what I truly wanted with him.

I’ve learned that the only chance you have is to be very careful about who you fall in love with in the first place. Never trick yourself into believing that a fraction is all you want.
I should have walked away when I found out he was married. I didn’t. I can’t regret any of it. In the end I lost everything. I lost the man I loved madly, and the baby that couldn’t be. I have to live with all of that too.” (1)


I am not without compassion. I feel sad anytime someone has an abortion. Before I had children, I had no idea how children would change my view of abortion. I went from being a vehement pro-choice to being a vehement pro-lifer. I am a pro-lifer in my own views, but I would not get in the way of what another woman wants to do. I do not want this to turn into an abortion discussion. I do not judge anyone who had an abortion—ever.

All I am saying is that abortion is sad and I feel bad that this woman was so selfish to get herself into a situation where one was required. Once again, the would-have-been child was innocent in all of this. His or her fate was determined by the selfishness of others. I find that heartbreaking.

In cases where a mistress gets pregnant, I believe the most moral thing a mistress can do is approach an adoption agency and break it off with her married lover. One time I spent a very short time talking to women who were on the fence about whether or not to have an abortion.

We had books full of profiles of infertile couples, pictures of the couples, information about religious beliefs, wealth, and everything else of couples. I would show women these books of people whose biggest dream in life would be to have a child to love.

I never tried to sway a woman one way or another. I told her the factual, medical details about abortion. I told her what could happen psychologically in terms of trauma and loss.

I was not there to judge—just to educate.

When I was alone, I would flip through these books full of profiles of infertile couples, see their photos, reads their life philosophies and why being able to adopt a child meant the world to them. I would burst into tears each time. I know couples that have failed fertility treatments and if they cannot adopt for whatever reason, they live with broken hearts.

I never told the women I counseled what I thought. I had volunteered for an organization that liked to show both sides and the facts. (As much as that is possible.)

I do not judge anyone who had an abortion. Everyone finds themselves in situations where it is the right decision. I have had miscarriages – after my fertility was endangered because of having to be treated for cervical cancer—and they are overwhelmingly heartbreaking. So, I do not judge. I know if a miscarriage tore my heart in two an abortion tore another woman’s heart in two. Therefore, I just cannot judge. Childbirth, miscarriage, abortion, and stillbirths are things that unite all women and they can be happy or sad. (Mostly sad.)

My point? If you are a married man and having sex with the other woman, you must always wear a condom. If you are a mistress, please, for God’s sake, get an IUD. It is NO FAIR for an innocent human being to be a life-long pawn who does not know where he or she fits; who feels the hatred of others just for existing; and who always know he exists for the purpose of being a pawn.

Having an affair is evil enough, but don’t bring children into it.

A Message to the Wives of Cheaters with Children by the Other Woman

Wives, whatever your husband has done, it cannot take away from the genuine love you once had. The other woman has no ability to erase the history you have had with your husband and she cannot erase the good times either.

Wives, I am so very sorry that your husband cheated on you. You did not deserve to have your husband cheat on you. Shame on him for breaking the vows that he said in front of God himself. Double shame on him for getting another woman pregnant AND possibly bringing STD’s home to you.

If your husband is vacillating between you and the other woman and being non-committal, it is time to get that vacillating husband a vasectomy. He is using bodily appendages as weapons of mass destruction of lives. These weapons will blow up your marriage and family.

I do not believe that most married men really want to get their mistresses pregnant. It will create a whole lot of hell for everyone. Most cheating men just want free, recreational sex on the side.

I have seriously heard some men refer to extra-martial sex as “recreational.” They claim extra-marital sex is really no more different than a sport such as tennis. I guess these men are right.

Extramarital sex is a recreational sport like tennis. Here’s why: In both cases, someone’s balls will get hit (by an angry wife) and one person is likely to get served (with divorce papers).

But, it doesn’t matter if extra-marital sex and tennis have that in common, extra-marital sex is wrong.

And if it is indeed no different from tennis, then just play tennis and do not cheat on your spouse!

What is a wife to do if she knows the other woman is trying to get pregnant in an attempt to spouse poach? Well, if the wife without children, I would really consider a divorce.

If you as a woman do not have children and your husband is actively trying to get another woman pregnant, it is time to cut your losses. If you stay, there will be a lot more losses than gains. It might be time to leave the game and let someone else be his tennis partner. He will cheat on whatever tennis partner he plays with.

Do not be that tennis partner. You can give that job – and the hell that comes with it – to the other woman. Once your husband marries her, she will be boring and he will acquire a new tennis partner. Time to get out.

If you do not want to get out—read the next section.


How to Keep Your Family Together

You can stay together, but it will require work and sacrifice.

There are the wives who have been married to men for MANY years who find out that their husband is going to have a child by another woman. You have too much invested in your marriage and likely you want to keep your marriage.

Final reminder: if you do not want to keep the marriage or are not sure, call the best divorce attorney in your area. They can help you figure it out; case closed.

If you do want to keep your marriage, this section is about what to do when your husband has completely lost his mind and thinks “finding himself’ means impregnating another woman.

He wants to find himself in yet another person’s face—his new child’s – because it was not enough to ‘find himself’ in the faces of his real family. Shame on him; that is narcissism to the 10th degree.

Wives, I do not care if the other woman has made the stupid decision to carry your husband’s child.

You too have rights.

But, let me back up. There are two solutions to this: the Christian solution and the secular solution. I need to present both parts.

The Christian Solution

Here is an addended story about a Christian family and how they solved it:

““It’s time for you to tell the truth,” Lori said. Terry [her husband] confessed everything. The affair began when things weren’t going well at home … when he was longing for attention. What first began as a friendship at work gradually changed into something much more. “I guess she made me feel like I was somebody,” he said.

Terry told Lori about the day Vicki [the other woman] told him she was pregnant and talked to him about the possibilities. Should she get an abortion? If she had the baby, would he support the child?

Of course he would support his child, he told her.

But, if Lori found out about the baby, he thought his marriage would surely end. He loved Lori and their two boys, and he didn’t want to be like his father and desert his family. So before Lori even knew about the affair, he did all that he could to make life miserable for her—so she would leave him.

As Terry admitted all this to Lori, his words seemed all jumbled in her mind. “I could have handled the affair,” she says, “but something about her being pregnant with the child shifted some things.”

She felt betrayed, rejected, and lost. But she didn’t feel hopeless. A new follower of Jesus Christ, she sensed God asking her to do what felt impossible: forgive Terry and stay with him.

The next time Lori saw Vicki was when Kirk was born in August of 1994. As she gazed through the nursery window of the hospital, she couldn’t help but stare at the beautiful baby boy. She kept looking at him, asking herself, Does he look like my kids? Like Terry? Can this really be?

And then she went to see the mother of her husband’s child.

Vicki’s and Lori’s eyes met. It was a silent, awkward moment. The air was thick between the two women.

Lori said something like “You have a beautiful baby,” and Vicki thanked her for the visit.

Once again Lori found herself asking God how she was supposed to love another woman’s child. And once again, she had no step-by-step answer. All she knew was that God was somehow leading her through a difficult process to healing and restoration.

Lori says that Kirk was not born of her flesh; he was born in her heart. When she looked at Kirk she did not see her husband’s sin. Instead, she thanked Christ for forgiving her sins.

Kirk was about 6 weeks old when he made his first visit to the Rigdons’ home. It was an exciting time for the family as the boys met their new brother. “We made a big deal out of it,” Lori says. “I took pictures and acted like it was a normal process of bringing a baby home.”

Kirk’s next long visit was around Christmas, and then he came every other weekend. Lori often picked Kirk up from Vicki’s house, and the two women began to form a better relationship. By the time Kirk was about 8 months old, his visits seemed to be a part of normal, everyday life.

“Our contact with Vicki was on such a regular basis,” Lori says. “There was no awkwardness anymore. All of that seemed to fade into the background.”

Vicki became a Christian when she was pregnant with Kirk, and several years later she married a godly man. Together, Vicki and Shane and Terry and Lori have raised Kirk. They’ve shared family birthday celebrations and ballgames.

Twenty years have come and gone, and Lori has stayed true to her promise. She told Terry that she would love Kirk as her own. “And she’s done that,” he says.

Both Vicki and Lori have raised their children to love God and to know that nothing is impossible for Him—not even healing dead marriages and broken hearts. Not even bringing two moms together to love one son.

Lori has told Kirk, “You’re the good thing that God brought out of a bad situation. … God has a great purpose for your life and for your future.”

No one is more amazed by how God has answered her prayers than Lori. How He somehow put the two families together. “He’s the one who can rebuild and restore,” Lori says. “He is a God of mercy and forgiveness.” (2)


If we have non-Christian readers who read that, they probably think that Lori was “out of her mind.” This is what I have to say. Literally, Lori was out of her mind—instead of focusing on what she wanted, she asked God what he wanted. Lori put her thoughts of herself aside and prayed.

I have followed the One God my entire life. I have attended Christian church and Jewish temples. I have studied Buddhism and some Hinduism. I have read the Tao Te Ching. But, I adhere to Judeo-Christian values.

I try to put myself aside each day to see what God has for my life and I spend time praying every day and listening to God.

If God would have asked me to go through what Lori went through, I would have blocked God on Facebook, Twitter, and on my cell phone. I would have sent an angry email to God’s Gmail account and said, “You are a bad influence and have outrageous ideas—so stop calling and emailing. You are officially blocked!”

Actually, that was meant to be humorous.

I do not know what I would do in such a situation. But, I do know one thing. When I see an innocent, newborn baby for the first time, I do not care how it came to be. I do not care if its mother used crack during her entire pregnancy. I do not care if the baby was a result of people I do not like. I do not care if the baby’s mom was a prostitute. I do not care if the baby is black, white, orange, green, yellow, or red.

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As hard as it could be, if my husband had a son by another woman, I do not think I could hate that baby. I might hate the other woman and despise the ground she walks on, but I could not hate the innocent child who was used as a pawn by his selfish mother and my stupid husband.

Please God, do NOT send this trial into my life. God, this is not an invitation to test me. You know all of the trials and tests I have endured in life even before the trial with my ex. Since many are not about infidelity, I rarely mention them. Thank you, God. And I promise I won’t block you from Gmail if you never send this trial into my life.

Okay, let’s be completely serious. I think with a lot of prayer, a lot of communication, and clear boundaries, Christians can get through this. But, the husband MUST put his wife first. He may have someone else’s child, but the other woman and her child live elsewhere. The wife should be able to set the boundaries in this situation. Period.


For the Secular People Out There

If you are secular and don’t believe in God or do not want to bring religion into it, it is perfectly fine. Everyone has whatever belief system works for them and I accept them no matter what they believe.

So, here is your leverage:

  1. Get an excellent attorney. Everyone usually offers a free consult. Ask the following questions…
    o What rights do I have as a wife based on how long I have been married and based on the ages of my children?
    o What are the legal rights (not emotional rights) that the other woman has in this scenario?
    o Is my spouse legally obligated to spend time with his new child?
    o Is my husband legally obligated to support the child and how much will he owe per month?
    o Can I legally ask for an independently done DNA test after the child is born? (Hint: many mistresses have several men going at a time. Most other women are Petri dishes on legs. Got a disease? No problem! They have one!)
    o If paternity is established—what is the bare minimum that your family must legally do to support this other woman and her child?
    o Can you file a restraining order?
    o Can you create a post-nuptial agreement that determines assets divided upon divorce?
    o Can you create legally enforceable boundaries that you, the wife, determine?
    o Is there anything else you need to think of in terms of legal obligations, the possibility of being sued—etc?
    o Is there anything else?
  2. Get an excellent individual therapist
  3. Get a separate marriage therapist
  4. Set up an emotional support network
  5. Figure out what personal boundaries you are willing to set with your husband

That is really all there is to do.

I found a question online that has to do with this. Depending on where you live, the laws change.

Here is the question:

“My husband left me in September of 2013 for a woman at work. He got her pregnant in Feb of 2014. And filed for divorce from me on March of 2014. We have not been to court yet. And don’t have a court date. The baby is due November of 2014. What legal ramifications does this have on me, being the wife. If we are still married when the baby is born , can he sign the birth cert. If they , meaning my husband and his mistress are not married , and we are, will he have to legitimate this child. And how will this effect my court case, it child support awarded?” (3)

Here is the answer of a Georgia lawyer:

“Unless his mistress is married to someone else, the child will not be legitimate when born. He will need to file a Petition to Legitimate this child or marry his mistress after you divorce. The only ramifications it will have on you are that the child born of his mistress will probably be a “qualified child” when calculating support awarded to you (although it wasn’t exactly clear in your fact pattern whether or not you had children). Certainly it should have an affect on your divorce because adultery is grounds for divorce and when establishing divisions of property and alimony, the court looks to conduct of the parties as a factor. It sounds like his conduct wasn’t very good. There are, however, many other factors to be considered. Also, he can still sign the birth certificate when the baby is born if you are still married.”


Unfortunately, all states have different laws and to complicate matters, all situations are different.


Here is another woman’s story about the day her personal world stopped turning– the day the mistress showed up to introduce her love child to the wife and the wife’s children. I have addended it, for brevity.

“Once upon a time, my husband’s mistress unexpectedly showed up at our doorstep with a toddler in the car. As you might guess, a slightly emotional scene occurred.

The next day, as my daughters and I were heading out for ice cream, my 6 year-old asked:  Mommy, is Connie’s son Daddy’s too?

My heart stopped. I’d been dreading the day that question was asked. Inwardly I was still raw from the news myself and furious that I, not my husband, had to deal with the big question.

I’d been scouring books, unsuccessfully, to learn the best way to handle the inevitable. The closest I came to an answer was that mental health experts deemed family secrets a huge, unhealthy burden for families, and that kids instinctively know the truth.

So, with all the non-judgmental feelings I could muster, I answered “Yes.” My heart was pounding, dreading the questions to follow and wondering if I’d just ruined her life.

After a moment my daughter simply grumbled, “That’s not fair, I don’t want to share any of my things with him.” My 3 year-old, excitedly kicking her car seat, chimed in “Me too!” I couldn’t have agreed more.

But, how do you move on when your husband and his mistress (a woman who’s been to your kid’s soccer games and a guest in your home) present you with the reality of a love child?

There’s a whole new world to consider. The mistress told me she could not wait to see my daughters excitement when they met their new baby brother.

I cried for a year straight about how the baby had destroyed the idyllic family I’d worked so hard to create.

As often happens, the mistress went to great lengths to make it clear to me that she was my husband’s true love. She sent me pictures, via certified mail, of the two of them and yes, the three of them. She called me frequently acting as my “best friend” kindly explaining that I was the reason my husband was so unhappy.

When I’d disagree, she’d scowl, “How can you keep being such bad role model for your daughters by staying with a man who doesn’t love you?”

Of course, afterwards, I’d run all of her words by my husband. He’d shake his head and say, “She’s crazy, she just wants my money.”

I offered to raise the child as our own, because it wasn’t the baby’s fault and, according to my husband, the mistress didn’t care about the baby. Neither of them took me up on it.

In the end the mistress got my husband, his money and legitimacy, while I got a divorce decree that my surgeon ex didn’t uphold.” (3)


Well, well, I have never heard about such a heart-warming story as this. Have you? The wife took the high road and emotionally prepared herself to raise someone else’s child since it was not the child’s fault. The wife was right—the child was innocent.

The issue is, the people who actually do these things—the surgeon who gets his mistress pregnant and the mistress who thinks it is exciting when the wife’s children meet the new family member —well, these people come from an alternative universe.

In their upside down and perverted universe, the things that make sense to decent people make no sense to them.

In their universe, the wife should rejoice when the mutual friend her husband was having sex with was in the wife’s bed. The wife should be happy when another woman presents the ‘fruit of his loins’ to the wife. Why, the wife should shout, “Hooray!” in this sick universe.

And of course the wife should nod and agree when the mistress tells the wife the wife is a horrible example to her daughters because she will not let her daughter’s father leave already!

The wife is such a bad example by trying to keep a sense of normalcy in her children’s lives by using every fiber of her being to keep her family together.

Oh no, the mistress thinks the wife is setting a terrible example by trying to keep her home in tact.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Obviously, this wife in the story was a lot more civil than I would be. First off, the mistress would have never made it to my doorstep. There would have been a restraining order.

If the mistress introduced her child to my daughters, I would say out loud and in front of the mistress and my children:

“This is a very instructive situation, girls. Take a good look at the woman before you. The common word for her is “whore,” but of course, others might call her a “bitch,” which would also be true. But, most of all, the woman who stands before you is an evil entity called “a home wrecker.” Gaze into this evil-eyed creature because she is the stuff of nightmares. She is here to steal your father, take our house, and take half of our money. She is like a cockroach that your father decided to bring into our family and the cockroach infested the house. I am so sorry I did not marry a real man and that you don’t have a REAL father.”

Oh is that harsh?

No, it is calling a spade a spade. Women who get pregnant and audaciously tell the wife that the wife and her kids are keeping the mistress and the mistresses child from true love with a married man need to be kicked off the planet.

Elon Musk, if you could send these audacious and entitled home-wreckers on a one-way trip to Pluto that would be great. Mars would work too. Oh—and one last tip for the engineers building the rocket—please make sure that you design the rocket to explode in mid-air while we all watch. Thanks, SpaceX, I hope we can count on you when we need you.

You know what? Elon Musk may even take me up on this idea. Do you know why? Elon Musk’s old, dried-up father just had a baby with his own (step) daughter.

I am getting flash backs all over again to the time when Woody Allen married one of his adopted daughters. Woody also molested another adopted daughter, Dylan, when she was seven.

Just when you think society has sunk as low as it can go—there is always some father out there ready to enthusiastically molest and impregnate his daughter. (Please do not comment on how since they are not blood relations, it does not count. You are WRONG. Molesting, impregnating, or marry a daughter is about as messed up as it gets.)

I never would have been capable of saying such things before my ex did what he did. I was always Miss Nice Girl—the one you could trust—the one you could walk all over—the one who could trust you even if she saw what appeared to be lipstick on your shirt (and you were a boyfriend.)

Wives—get an attorney. Knows your rights. That’s all you can do.

Bonus Thoughts: Is your husband’s mistress prettier than you are, or more special?

Oh yay! We get a bonus section on wife versus mistress. Who will win the title of the better woman? (Hint: the wife). But, go ahead and read it for yourself.

M. Gary Neuman interviewed hundreds of cheating men. He asked them if the mistress was prettier than the wife or had something that was better than what the wife had. Around 87% of men said, the other woman was inferior to their wives.

Here is a photo montage (along with my commentary) of famous men, their wives, and their affair partners. You be the judge. Res ipsa loquitur…

1. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s women

                                                                                                              The Other Woman                                                       The Wife

Mildred (the housemaid and the mistress) versus Maria Shriver (part of the Kennedy family, extremely successful, well-bred, beautiful, and intelligent.) Arnold sired a son with Mildred the maid, well after he married Maria Shriver. In my opinion, Maria Shriver got the short end of this stick. I can guarantee Arnold would currently be a has-been and forgotten C-list actor, if he had not married into the Kennedy family. This is the ultimate betrayal because Maria is responsible for Arnold’s political career and he thanked her by siring a child with the woman who cleaned toilets. Bravo, Arnold. You were so lazy that you could not even make a phone call to the nearest super-model to have a romp in the hay. No wonder California “is in the state it is in.” (Pun intended).


2. Robin William’s Women

The First Wife

Valerie Velardi, Robin William’s first wife, to whom he was married for 10 years. Coincidentally, his years with Valerie were also the most successful years of his career. Valerie bore Robin a son, whom they named Zachary. Unfortunately, their relationship ended contentiously. Robin just could not understand why Valerie was so upset and angry during their divorce. After all, the only thing that he did was impregnate the nanny that Valerie had hired. (Robin, you were a terrific comedian, but a lousy father and husband.)

The Other Woman

The nanny, Marsha, pictured with her own child, which was conceived during the affair with a married Robin Williams. I can just picture the whole scene now. Valarie, who was Robin’s first wife, hired Marsha to be the nanny for Valerie’s own son, Zac. But, in Marsha’s eyes, the fact that Valerie was married and she was being paid to care for Valerie’s child was of no
consequence to her. I can picture Robin and Marsha, alone together with Robin’s son, Zac. I can picture Robin’s son, Zac, crying because he was hungry and being left alone in a “baby jail” aka pack-n-play while Marsha convinced the married Robin that she could conceive a child with him instead.

See also  An Emotional Affair Lacks a Strong Bond

It is like this: you cannot be two places at once. If Marsha was busy trying to conceive her own baby with Robin, I can guarantee poor, little Zac was getting neglected. I do not like to say mean things about people’s appearance. But, if a woman is trying to break up your marriage and she also happens to look like a witch, I can guarantee this is not a nice person. Very occasionally, a person’s face matches their interior. This is such a case.


3. John Edward’s Women:

The Wife: Mary Elizabeth Anania (Edwards)

Elizabeth Edwards could have been a beauty queen, but she was destined to be much greater. Beauty and brains. From Wikipedia: Edwards began her career as a law clerk for a federal judge, then moved to Nashville, Tennessee, in 1978 to become an associate at the law firm of Harwell Barr Martin & Sloan. In 1981, she and her husband moved their family to Raleigh, where she worked in the Office of the Attorney General, and at the law firm Merriman, Nicholls, and Crampton. She kept the last name Anania until 1996, when she retired from legal practice upon the death of her son and changed her name to Elizabeth Anania Edwards in Wade’s memory.

Much of her time after leaving legal practice was devoted to the administration of the Wade Edwards Foundation. She taught legal writing as an adjunct instructor at the University of North Carolina School of Law and worked as a substitute teacher in the Wake County Public Schools. In August 2009, she opened a furniture store in Chapel Hill. In September 2006, Random House published her first book, Saving Graces: Finding Solace and Strength from Friends and Strangers, focusing on the ways in which various communities have helped her through the trials of her life, from her itinerant military childhood to the death of her son and her early bout with breast cancer. In May 2009, they published her second book, Resilience: Reflections on the Burdens and Gifts of Facing Life’s Adversities, further discussing the return of her illness, the deaths of her father and son, the effect of these events on her marriage, her husband’s infidelity, and the general state of health care in America. Both books are best-sellers.


John Edwards and The Mistress

From Wikipedia: Rielle Hunter (born Lisa Jo Druck on March 20, 1964, also known as Lisa Hunter, Lisa Jo Hunter, and Rielle Jaya James Druck) is an American former film producer. She is known for having had an affair and conceiving a child with former US Senator John Edwards, while he was a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008. She is said to be the basis of a character in a Jay McInerney novel.

The National Enquirer, a U.S. tabloid, cited claims by an anonymous source that Edwards had engaged in an extramarital affair with Hunter during Edwards’s 2008 presidential campaign and that Hunter was pregnant. After a report by the National Enquirer on December 19, 2007, Hunter announced she was pregnant with the child of Andrew Young, a married man who is a former staffer for John Edwards’ presidential campaign. Young, his wife Cheri, and their young children were living outside of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, at the time in the same “Governor’s Club” complex where Hunter was renting. Soon afterward, the Youngs and Hunter moved to California. Hunter became pregnant with Edwards’ child in May 2007; she later said she found out she was pregnant only in July. She gave birth to her daughter on February 27, 2008, in Santa Barbara, California, but did not list the child’s father’s name on the birth certificate. She gave her own name as “Rielle Jaya James Druck” on her daughter’s birth certificate, but gave the child the surname “Hunter”.

Yeah, she was a real winner.


4. Dr. Martin MacNeill’s Women aka the story I hate the MOST.

Michele Marie Somers (married name MacNeill),

Michelle McNeil was a wonderful and beloved mother and wife. I followed this case from start to finish. I just could not fathom why her husband, Martin MacNeill, would plan her murder in cold blood along with his mistress. After Martin killed his wife, he moved his mistress, Gypsy, into his home and said Gypsy was the new nanny and mother of the house. Then, Martin and Gypsy stole the identity of one of his oldest, adopted daughters and sent her back to Russia.

To top it off, one of Martin’s oldest daughter’s awoke to find her father performing sexual acts on her rear end. As his shocked daughter awoke, Martin said he mistook his daughter for his dead wife, Michelle. Come on now, of course there is always family resemblance, but mistaking your adult daughter for your dead wife (who you killed) takes it to a whole new level.

Crazy does not even describe Martin MacNeill. Evil is not even an appropriate term for Martin MacNeill. He is something worse. I know he is not in heaven, but I tend to believe even the devil has standards. 


Martin MacNeill and the Mistress (Gypsy). Were these two toasting because they had just figured out how the murder would go down?

Michelle (and Martin) MacNeill’s Daughters

Michelle’s daughters were obviously beyond distraught over what happened to their wonderful and innocent mother, who was well-loved by many. (Except her husband and the other woman. Funny how that works.)


5. Hugh Grant’s Women

Hugh Grant has always had a “colorful love life.” (Pun intended.) Way back when, he was in a long-term relationship with the gorgeous and Oxford educated, Liz Hurley. Yes, she is gorgeous and has an even more gorgeous IQ. He almost ended his career the night he was caught with a prostitute in Los Angeles. Hugh Grant provided the foundation for many jokes in the coming years.

Liz and Hugh


Hugh and the Prostitute (Did the cat eat your smile, Hugh?)

You know, I thought Hugh could not top that one. Truly. But, the old boy still had something up his sleeve: two different and dueling baby-mommas, who are playing “the pick me” dance, and seeing who can “out baby” the other to win Hugh’s affections. I did not even know “out babying” existed until I saw these two women and thought of the concept.


Meet Contender #1 aka the first Baby Momma, Tinglan Hong

Tinglan gave birth to Hugh’s baby number one and baby number three. Tinglan’s claim to fame before that was working as a waitress in a hole-in-the wall Chinese restaurant in London. Considering she was an absolute nobody, it was her lucky day when she met Hugh Grant. She did not give up on pursuing Hugh, got pregnant, and had his first child. Tinglin became an instant millionaire (child support payments) and got an expensive house in London where she now lives with her mooching mom. Tinling’s mother taught her well—that the easiest route to wealth is to open your legs and become impregnated by the wealthiest man possible.


Meet Contender #2 aka the second baby-mama, Anna Eberstein, new wife of Hugh Grant, and official winner of the “pick me dance.”

Anna is the daughter of attorneys, who currently hold positions in the Swedish government. She is well educated, well-bred, and a successful television producer in her own right. She could have dated and married anyone. But, instead, she had Hugh’s child #2 and child #4. Oh Anna, you are a beautiful, educated, and an accomplished woman and chose to compete with a nobody.

Anna you persisted and won the “pick me dance.” Couldn’t you take a look at pathetic Tinglan and realize open legs is all she has and will ever have? How could you even compete with a nobody? You already won in the game of life because you are someone and you could have found someone a million times better than Hugh Grant.

Winning the pick me dance is not really winning anything. When you win a cheater (as a result of the pick me dance), you lose monogamy, you lose trust, you lose the reassurance that he might stay. You married a cheater who bounced back and forth between a somebody (you) and a nobody (her). One day he might get bored and ask the other women to join the pick me dance again. Oh, and she will be happy to try to ‘out baby’ you again. What then? I say get an annulment while you can. Anna you can do better.

In Summary

Other women: Don’t sleep with married men. (Duh). If you do sleep with them (shame on you) but please use birth control. (Duh) If you think you are going to win the lottery by having the baby by a married man to get him to leave his family, I would reconsider that thought. Not all married women take being chumped “laying down.” Some married women will spend their husband’s entire life savings hiring the best attorneys.  Their children, who all have scissors and baseball bats, will also flank those same married women on each side. At the end of it all, you will inherit a man who is broke (in all ways) and you will have to work to support him and your child with him.

Best scenario? Don’t sleep with married men. It is called preventing problems.

Wives: If your husband is having an affair, it is time to hire a detective and get proof. If you choose to stay with such a man, send him in for a vasectomy. If your husband is impregnating or has impregnated another women and you just found out, transfer all assets into your name and hire the attorney with the reputation for being the most ruthless. Find out your legal rights and ensure you use your rights to their fullest. Best of all, move to one of the seven states where you can sue for alienation of affection.

Most of all, wives, don’t be the sucker of such a married man.

Just when you thought it could not get worse, I have saved one of the more outrageous stories for last.

I was sitting in a local coffee house the other day working on this post. There was a couple sitting next to me, who appeared to be in their late 20’s or early 30’s, and they were speaking very loudly since they had decided to pick a public venue to argue.

The husband yelled, “Do you expect me to be loyal since you had a hysterectomy?”

That got my attention—a young woman with a hysterectomy and a husband who correlates his loyalty or lack of loyalty to her missing uterus. Interesting. I listened for more.

The wife said, “You know I was battling cancer. What was I supposed to do?”

Cancer? Uterus removed? Hmm… sounds like cancerous HPV to me. I kept listening.

The husband haughtily replied, “Well, I am happy to stay married to you, but I think I will explore other opportunities if they come up.”

Other opportunities? Opportunities for employment? Opportunities for more vacation days? Opportunities for affairs? What opportunities?

The wife said, “What if you get another woman pregnant? Then what?”

Ahhh… opportunities with other women.

The husband said, “If you let me see other women, then I will schedule a vasectomy with my doctor. I promise. I love you and want to stay with you and I am happy to get a vasectomy if you let me see others.”

Whoa now, that is a BIG jump. So, now he is saying he will stay married to her if she lets him have sex with other women. Additionally, he will do her the honor of getting a vasectomy so that he can have all the extra-martial sex he wants without impregnating everyone. I wanted to insert myself between them and tell the wife to get up, grab her purse, run away now, and don’t stop running until she has out-run the sorry excuse of a human being she was married to. But, I did not. I took notes.

The wife fell silent. It appeared she was thinking about his offer to stay married, to allow her husband to have sex with countless others, not impregnate them, and always come home to her.

The wife finally said, “Okay, let’s go talk to the doctor together.” They commenced holding hands and looked lovingly at each other.

Was this a joke? If it was, the punch-line would have been: “Those millennials—they are so open minded their brains leaked out!”

Only, this was not a joke or a comedy club.

This is only one of the many outrageous conversations I have overheard, when I write at one of the local coffee houses. 

Married women: Do NOT be that woman who has been made to believe she is a second class citizen because she had a hysterectomy. Please—have enough dignity. Vasectomy or not, your husband can still bring home STDs.

I could not help but wonder if that woman had to undergo a hysterectomy because of cancerous HPV. (And I can guess he had always been a cheater too). If he has a vasectomy, he can still bring home cancerous HPV all over again. When it returns, she might lose more than her uterus—she might lose her life.

Having a uterus does not correlate to fidelity. A hysterectomy takes nothing from a woman except for a body part, which is not so useful after menopause. But, it does not take anything away from a woman’s innate wholeness and it certainly does not take away from her femininity or womanhood.

The husband sitting in the coffee shop was probably always unfaithful, but now he had a bargaining chip – aka the lowest tricks in the book. He implied that because his wife did not have something irrelevant to her humanity, she was a second-class citizen. False. I hope one day she wises up.

Cheating Husbands: Put your selfishness aside long enough to not be a jerk. If you are a jerk, please be courteous and tell your wife you are a jerk. Then, be a gentleman, hand over all your assets, and quietly leave. (Wayward spouses who are working on your marriage and who have not impregnated others, this does NOT apply to you.)

Men who have been cheated on: This also does not apply to you. If your wife gets pregnant and you suspect it is someone else’s child, you too must play hardball. You are not (emotionally) required to raise the love-child of your wife. Call an attorney and see if you can get the sperm donor to pay for the love child. Meanwhile, you can leave with your biological children and attempt to sue your wife for spousal support, if she works.

It’s an equal rights world—both cheating women and men need to pay for what they have done to an innocent spouse. Women, you do not get special treatment because you are a wayward woman in a marriage where your husband has never had an emotional or physical affair. Life does not work that way for either gender. The ones who plays, pays—whether they are male or female.

Readers, are you in this situation? Do you know of someone who is? How did it turn out? Are you an adult child of a situation where your bio dad did not leave his family for your mom?



What It Is Like to be the Pregnant Mistress of a Married Man. From: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/dating/what-its-like-being-the-pregnant-mistress-of-a-married-man/news-story/bc932706149f7eb070d9dc6c9cfadf7c

Mary May Larmoyeux, Are You Pregnant with my Husband’s Child? From https://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/troubled-marriage/infidelity/are-you-pregnant-with-my-husbands-child/

Sharon Zarozny. When Baby Makes Three … Extramaritally. From https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharon-zarozny/post_1741_b_824597.html


    286 replies to "The Ultimate Poach: When Your Husband Gets the Other Woman Pregnant"

    • TheFirstWife

      I guess keeping it classy isn’t the motto here.

      I would never lower myself to be so ill mannered that in front of my own children I would degrade another person by trash talking.

      Really not the Christian thing to do. And it does not model the right behavior to children.

      I don’t know how I would handle this situation. But I know myself well enough that I would not behave in an embarrassing way in front of my children.

      That “woman” is still someone’s mom even if the baby was born under less than ideal circumstances. And sometimes it is better to be “classy” than trashy.

      I know I would be furious with my H if money had to be paid to the OW and child. I don’t deny that. But I would never take it out on the child.

      The child is an innocent victim in the middle of two families. And it is up to the parents and extended families to make sure the child’s best interests are taken into consideration.

      IMO calling the OW names in front of your own children is not acceptable. Under any circumstances.

      • LK

        It’s always assumed that the OW wants the CS all to herself and to ruin his marriage. Dare I say it??? I was the OW! Was I in love with this CS? Nope!!! He was just a FWB and I enjoyed his company. I knew he was married and I never wanted him for myself and I wasn’t out to poach a spouse. I had no desire to wake up with him everyday, be the one who cooks for him, or be the one to do his soiled laundry. I didn’t have romantic feelings for him. He gave me a few laughs and mediocre sex, but that was it. For me, he was nothing more than a much needed distraction to take my mind off of my own issues that I was struggling with at the time. The CS and I were lovers for 8 years. He swore up and down he had a vasectomy so why use condoms? I was naive and I believed his story about the vasectomy. But after 8 years, I ended up pregnant. Contrary to popular belief, I DID NOT GET PREGNANT ON PURPOSE! After finding out I was pregnant I did not feel that it was fair for me to bear the financial burden alone so I took the CS to court for child support. He has his check garnished every 2 weeks and is providing financially for our daughter, as is required by law. So I hate to disappoint everyone out there who wishes the OW a life of hell and misery. For reasons I can’t get into now, my child has brought me Incredible luck. My life couldn’t be better! My daughter is now 5 yrs old and she is the biggest blessing life could ever give me. She is a miraculous gift and I’m the luckiest mother in the world.

        My beautiful daughter understands that I’m enough for her and that not all little girls have a father. In fact, my daughter’s father was emailing me every month or so asking me if he could see her. I think it’s a horrible idea so I have asked him to stay away from us. So far he has respected my wishes. No drama from his wife, and why would there be? I’m not trying to steal her husband or break up their family.

        My gorgeous child has the love of our immediate family and she is the happiest, healthiest child that I have ever known. She is very affectionate and playful. She wakes up in the morning laughing and giggling. It’s beyond precious. Again, I hate to disappoint everyone out there, but my life (as a single mother) turned out to be quite fulfilling despite being the OW. The daughter that I never planned on having has given me the motivation to get further in my career and to do my best at work. I have a professional job and my daughter and I live a very comfortable, peaceful, and stress free life. Being a devoted mother has taught me patience and numerous life lessons that I was not prepared for.

        All this to say, I was never trying to steal another woman’s husband. And as far as me being ostracized, by who? By you? By anyone reading this? By the “holier than thou” individuals who don’t even matter? Trust me, I’ll be just fine! Cheers!

        • Supporter


        • Em


          You being on these message boards and writing the message you did is helpful. You show by your message that your standards are so low (no commitment, no strings) that they aren’t visible. It shows how little you care – just stumbling on an internet site about other woman and affairs & having to comment despite your oh so happy life! Its the lies we tell ourselves that are the worst.
          As a mother with older children than yours I can tell you that children need and want both parents and its a shame you have robbed your child of that. Having been a parent much longer than you I read your message with a smile knowing that parenting is a marathon and not a spring and honey, you are just at the starting gates.
          I will say that Its good to be reminded how delusional the OW is and can be. Makes It easier to see how affairs can happen. I hope everyone got as big of a laugh as I did!

          • LK

            Delusional? No, I think people want to insist on stereotyping the OW and let the CS off the hook and not hold him accountable. The OW threw herself at him, right??? She forced him against his own will. Poor poor CS he can do no wrong and he’s the victim. Just keep judging the OW, but temporarily “forget” the basics of biology and “forget” how it all works and that it takes two. Again, not all women get attached or fall in love after having sex with a married man or any man. So if a woman has sex with a married man she is all of a sudden a husband stealer? Don’t be so sure, it’s 2019 and times have changed. Did it ever occur to you or to anyone that some women just want sex? It’s not about standards being “so low they’re invisible” (clever comeback though); it’s more about timing. Not every woman wants a relationship. Not every woman wants to combine her finances and share her space. Again, look at the calendar it’s 2019. Not every woman is longing to be swept off into the sunset by her Prince Charming. Unbeknownst to you, women are more independent these days and are actually OK being single, especially when they have careers and can provide for themselves and their children. I know that can be a challenging concept to grasp, but not everyone is as eager to be in a relationship or marriage. What your message is saying is that women who want no strings/ commitment are lower than women who want a serious relationship.

            Not that I owe you or anyone any further explanations. My previous message was received just as I thought it would (people are so predictable). My message was received with doubt and hatred and disbelief. How could I possibly be happy w/ out having the CS in my life? I’m not really happy, I’m just delusional, Hmmm ok! As badly as you want the OW to be miserable and “living a life of hell”, in some cases she’s not. And as much as you want to believe that she’s pining over the CS? She’s not! And as much as you want to interpret me enjoying my daughter as me saying that parenting is easy, I know parenting is difficult. However, I can still enjoy my daughter at the same time and enjoy all the “spring and honey” moments. As far as me robbing my child of both parents? Oh, bless your heart. Nope, what you interpret as robbing my child of having 2 parents I see as sparing my daughter the heartbreak of an absentee father. Or are you saying that having a neglectful father is better than none at all? I’m sorry but I don’t subscribe to that notion. And as much of a laugh as you’re getting out of my previous message (and present message), the feeling is mutual and yours gave me quite a chuckle too! Have a beautiful day and thanks for your input.

            • Rose

              You are seriously barking up the wrong tree here, OW. Not even sure why you are here trying to lose the shame you have of yes, being a husband stealer. At the very least you are a creepy, unethical, immoral person and need to go away. I’m sure there are plenty of unmarried men (or women) to fulfill your sexual needs. You just had to have THAT one, right? Because you could? Because you are a narcissistic jerk, like the married man? Find somewhere else to spew your venom. This is not the place.

            • Me

              I am not quite sure why you are here. This is a site that helps betrayed spouses recover from the life-changing emotional, financial, and physical affects of betrayal.

              This site is not necessarily about letting the cheating husband of the hook either.

              I am going to analyze this purely from a behavioral pattern. The man you were involved with made you laugh, but the sex was mediocre. Women love it when a man makes them laugh and gives them attention. Women hate mediocre sex. You had a man with whom you could laugh, but had mediocre sex. A man such as this is not worth poaching. On the other hand, getting pregnant with this man’s child and garnishing his wages certainly ensures that:

              1) You get to be a mom.

              2) A man who you don’t have to see or have mediocre sex with pays the bills.

              3) You get to have a wonderful daughter without a bothersome husband. Yet, that man still pays your bills.

              If women want to have a child and choose a sperm donor, they are not entitled to financial help.

              But, this is a perfect situation for you. You get a child and money to raise a child and you are not required to be tied to a man who wants to have mediocre sex with you.

              That saves many weeks of time (over a lifetime) thinking of excuses to deter a man who is unable to please you in bed. You don’t have to waste time saying that you have a migraine, or it’s that time of the month, or the dog peed on the rug and you can’t possibly be in the mood due to the smell.

              That leaves more time for manicures, pedicures, Botox, personal shoppers, and finding the perfect hairdresser.

              It seems to me that you wanted a child and wanted someone to pay for a child. Since the other man was married, you got a child, you got his wages garnished, and you threw him back to his wife.

              Maybe you like your daughter, but if you love her, please stop taking money from a man who is not even allowed to see his biological daughter. Please support your daughter with your own funds since in the end, the other man was a sperm donor.

              Alternatively, the other man has a wife and children that he must feed, but you are garnishing his wages which takes away from his own family budget. Having an affair is unethical, but getting pregnant and garnishing his wages is unconscionable.

              Since you claim to be a professional woman from 2019, then do the actual things that some liberated women in 2019 have chosen to do. They support themselves and their offspring with their money alone. They take ownership.

              You can’t have it both ways. That just makes you an opportunist, but we already knew that. I seriously hope that the other man hires a guardian ad litem. You are someone who solely lives for herself and you really have no business being a parent. Why? You don’t have the emotional maturity or self-sacrifice that is required to be a good parent. If you wonder why on earth I would say that, just read your own post over again. If you have no insight into who you are, you are totally lost and I regret that a child is involved.

            • boxingday

              Your message isn’t being poorly received because you’re supposedly happy without the person you cheated with. Your message is poorly received because you’re an unbelievable sociopath.

              “It’s 2019, some of us just want to have sex”

              NOT WITH A MARRIED MAN! Guess what, you are free to have sex as much as you want – WITH OTHER SINGLE PEOPLE and no one else cares about that. There are literally millions of other single people out there who don’t want relationships or any strings attached but want sex. MILLIONS. There are men begging for this all the time. You can get them anywhere! A dime a dozen. Go sleep with them! Yet you made a choice not to. You chose to screw a married man. For a reason that had NOTHING to do with “no strings attached.” YOU HAD AN AFFAIR WITH A MARRIED MAN FOR 8 YEARS! That wasn’t just wanting sex – sex that you call mediocre. You’re lying somewhere in your messages about your true feelings and intentions. No one screws a married man FOR 8 YEARS because he’s funny despite being bad in bed because they want no strings attached sex. They’d move on to someone who pleases them better. I believe it’s closer to what “Me” says – you’re a loser who is poaching money.

              You actually sit here talking like you’ve done nothing wrong. There were innocent people involved in this, you insanely self-centered jerk! You weren’t screwing a single person. You weren’t screwing a person in a bubble with no consequences. YOU HURT INNOCENT PEOPLE. But you’re so selfish and self-centered you don’t care about the innocent woman you hurt or this man’s children who are hurt and have their lives altered forever and even their extended family and friends. Destruction from affairs touches everyone in the couple’s lives. But you just flit away from the destruction you helped cause because you don’t have to deal with that LIFE-LONG FALLOUT and you don’t give a rat’s ass about it. It didn’t happen to you! You just caused it though. You rolled a grenade into these people’s lives and smiled and walked away from the destruction. WOW! And you’re taking money away from his poor wife and kids. You don’t care about anyone but yourself. What a sociopath! YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON. Someone who doesn’t care about anyone but themselves and is a stunning sociopath about the pain she causes is going to be a great mom! I feel sorry for your kid. And don’t worry, karma will catch up with you, honey.

              Every time an “other woman” comments here it does nothing but solidify my hatred for these women. At least cheaters come here and express remorse. They admit they lied. They feel terrible about what they’ve done. They try to take responsibility and make things right. So that honestly makes me hate them less than the people they cheat with.

              These OW though? Pieces of crap through and through. They are all broken, dishonest, delusional, pathetic, losery, horrible sociopaths! They do nothing but continue to lie, cling to lies, make excuses for themselves while never taking responsibility, get defensive, and blame, hate on, lie about, and demonize the poor innocent wives they’ve hurt and never even acknowledge what they’ve done was horrible and wrong. They just don’t care. Or they minimize what they’ve done and act like they’re sooooo mistreated for a “little mistake.” Some of them will even sit here while cheaters openly say “Yes, I lied about my wife and marriage to people, especially to my affair partner. None of it was true.” and the OW on here stick their fingers in their ears and scream “NO NO! The wife really is crazy and horrible! I am justified!”

              The astronomical levels of selfishness and sociopathy is stunning.

            • Sharon

              The real message you fail to receive in ALL OF your good cheer and fabulous life with your fatherless child is this…
              HE WAS MARRIED! MARRIED MEN ARE OFF LIMITS! DOESN’T MATTER WHAT SONG AND DANCE HE GIVES YOU, HE IS MARRIED! 8 YEARS?! REALLY?! 8 F*CKING YEARS! You say your intent wasn’t to ever take this lying cheating thief from his wife. Amazing! Absolutely amazing!! Your intent! You knew he was married! 8 years! You should be ashamed of yourself! ‘Well he was a grown man.. I didn’t make him…I call bullsh*t! Well…well ah…well uh?! Please! You just don’t get it do you?! Married?! Would you like it if a woman made their way into your grandmother’s bed? Your aunt’s? Your sister’s? Your daughter’s? I’d ask if you’d like it if it happened to you but clearly it wouldn’t bother you a bit! You can honestly say without hesitation that the above mentioned family members absolute devastation wouldn’t faze you a bit? That their ability to ever trust another human being for the rest of their life was destroyed does6nt bother you at all? Let me guess… your mom was a mistress too? Your dad had mistresses? Your grand parents, aunts, uncles and everyone else in your life have all had extra marital affairs and it was perfectly natural? You are a special kind of cruel. A special kind if disgusting. A special kind of pathetic.
              Let me guess your retort… he didnt have to keep having the affair with me. If course he didn’t. But did YOU need to keep having the affair AFTER you found out he was married? If you say anything except no you are a liar. My husband would always say ‘well, everyone I meet knows I’m married.’ OF course they do! The ones that have some sense and self worth walk away and never speak to him again. The trashy ones that have no moral value or ethical fibers running through their body alWAYS stick around! With intent to steal a married man or not! Trap it trick! Whatever your reasons are they aren’t good enough! Not one of them!
              Did you know that in biblical days a man would be committed to death if he committed adultery? Guess what?! So would his mistress! Adultery is one of the only 2 sins God does not just pass out a forgiveness pass for. He forgives you of that sin but you WILL stand before him on your day of judgment to explain yourself then you will pay for that sin. How embarrassing will that be?! How humiliating?! Explaining why you were so greedy you had to take a married man!
              I’d be mortified! Actually! That’s never going to happen to me! I know better! As I’m sure you did too!
              But hey! You’re not with mediocre sex guy any longer, you ARE collecting a check, and his DNA isn’t half bad because your kid looks cute. 2 parents that had zero ethics or morals equals a kid with even less morals even less ethics? I’m sure she’ll follow in her harlot moms foot steps and take a married man of her own one day instead of getting her own husband. How proud mama will be! Just like her dear sweet mom! I hope for her sake (and if you care about your daughter even a little) she doesn’t meet a man, fall in love, get married with an expectation that her husband will be faithful, because after all he did promise her… . Then he takes on a harlot that resembles her own mother and becomes the cheated on wife. What will you tell her? Its ok as long as the mistress doesn’t love your daughter’s husband it’s ok? That that one factor alone cancels out any wrong doing against her? Makes sense! P.s. I’m not writing this because I too have a husband without a brain or a care in the world who also chose to commit adultery. I am writing this for every woman out there that for whatever reason doesn’t get it… like yourself .. IF A MAN IS MARRIED YOU DO WHAT? STAY AWAY FROM HIM! IF YOU WANT A MAN STRING OR NO STRINGS GET YOUR OWN! THIS IS FOR SURE NOT FOR THOSE WOMEN THAT WOULD NEVER BE WITH A MARRIED MAN. Hell no! They have the good sense God gave them and happen to have a conscience telling them would be silly now wouldnt it?!

            • Kilie

              If this isn’t the most disturbing and embarrassing excuse for a woman and mother then I don’t know what is . I’ll keep it short and sweet . Psych 101 you are the prime example of what happens when you grow up in either a single parent household , abusive household , childhood trauma , neglected as a child , no accountability for bad behaviors etc…or all of the above . You’re an idiot also forgetting that karma doesn’t usually hit us directly , it happens to either the ones we love the most or where it hurts the most . Sleeping with a married man for 8 years shows you have no love for yourself . Clearly you don’t care or fear about getting your karma so you will most likely be spared but will get it where and when you least expect it. Cheers sweetie and good luck !

          • Ms

            Em- if anyone is delusional here, it’s you. This forum has got to be the most toxic get together of women. As Someone who has been cheated on, men go to extraordinary length to lie to the other woman. And shaming a woman for wanting something noncommittal? What’s wrong with that? if you would spend half the time being more mad at the person who actually cheated on you, the person who committed to you, and not some random lady you probably would never be in this position anyway. You clearly have no self-respect and I’m sure there’s a reason your husband cheated on you.

        • E


          8 Years huh? That’s a long time to invest in mediocre sex? I’m not judging it was part of your statement that popped out to me and from the perspective of the OW. To me that’s a lot of time to invest in someone that you didn’t love. That part confuses me because that means it was more than a fling.

          Can I ask a question because I’m not here to judge you? Obviously from you posting here you have seen the posts and know some of my story. None of my questions are for attacks or holier than thou judgement. It’s based on my own curious viewpoint because you are the OW and with the CS’s child.
          Why are you on this blog? Your not a betrayed spouse and not the cheating spouse and you are the OW with a child. I’m only curious because I didn’t judge your story in any other way other than curiosity. I would have thought that a website like this would not have attracted the OW based on my own experiences with one that the lack of caring and complete meanness and calculated strategies to make my H pay for the affair being known and him not leaving me for her.

          I came to get support, to learn and to figure out the puzzle pieces of the chaos of my trauma and life? I just wanted to know if it was to defend yourself or to find out what the betrayed wife feels or maybe some other reason.

          One thing I want to caution you is the fact that your child’s father is not seeing his daughter. I want you to be aware that because he pays child support he could take you back to family court and force custody and or visitation, he has that right and the courts will see that also. (been there and done that and the true colors of the AP show especially when the child gets involved based on control. )


          • LK


            I do believe you when you say you’re not here to judge me. I read some of your posts and nothing I say will mean anything to you or hold any weight. But I am amazed by your strength and wisdom, I’ll leave it at that. True, 8 years is a long time to invest in mediocre sex. The CS and I had a friendship in addition to the intimacy. I did enjoy his company even though the sex wasn’t the best. You are correct, it was more than a fling and we did have a friendship and he was easy to talk to. Many people will never believe that I could have a sex with a man for 8 years, but not be in love. I know the truth and I have no feelings for him. I was intimate with other single guys at the same time as the CS and I had romantic feelings for some of those men.

            A big part of me replying to some of these comments was to defend myself indeed. Then as I was reading more of the comments, I was interested in knowing the wife’s point of view and what she is feeling. I do regret making a poor choice by sleeping with a married man. Reading your posts in particular made me realize the hurt that my actions caused.

            But it’s a daunting task to defend myself against such ignorant comments (not you in particular). I’m referring to the other posts. There are so many assumptions about the OW and how they will do anything to get the man to leave his wife. Many women resort to extreme tactics, but not me. I’ve already stated that all I felt was friendship for him. I was not poaching a husband and I did not get pregnant on purpose. I did not ever foresee a child in my future since I was already 41 and enjoying my carefree single life. Obviously I was shocked when I found out I was pregnant and I was also very scared. I told the CS that I was pregnant and he swore the child was not his because he was still insisting that he had a vasectomy in 2005. So much was going on in my head that I did not force the issue. My life would be changed forever and I did not want to put my body through unnecessary stress. A baby would be born very soon. A few days after the shock, I was happy that I was pregnant. I realized that many people out there wanted what I had, a chance to be a mom. Meaning, I personally knew a couple of individuals at the time that were trying to get pregnant, but couldn’t. I became excited about being a mom. I was not excited knowing that the years go by quick and before you know it my daughter will need to know the circumstances of her conception. I also know that life is unpredictable and I may cross paths with CS’s wife or be confronted by her. She would never accept an apology from me, but I would apologize to her nonetheless.

            You are correct, the CS would be in his right to take me to court for visitation since he is legally the biological father, but that is not likely because he does not have the freedom to visit his daughter regularly. By going to court for visitation, he is sending a message to the judge (and to his daughter) that he’s willing to commit to regular visits and I know his situation does not afford him that flexibility. His family would never allow him to see his daughter anyway and I would fear for my daughter’s safety if she were ever in the same room with the CS family. It’s understandable that they would feel hatred for my daughter and I as they probably believe that I’m in love with him, and they would be uneasy knowing that he has contact with me. So, it’s just easier to keep things as they are; no contact. The CS situation now is that his 3 kids are now adults. 2 of them are well into their 20’s.

            Anyway I thank you for your message.

            • Rose

              So if we read this correctly…you were sleeping around. He meant nothing to you. You could have had anyone, so you did. One was sure to get you a kid, right? Just happened to be the married one. The one who maybe meant something to another family. You fu*ked up and you know it. This is NOT the place for you. As far as “going away in my own time,” there are moderators here who decide who gets to post. I just cannot believe the cajones you have to come to a place where so many people are hurting, and you wave this abhorrent behavior in their face. Are you looking for forgiveness? You won’t find it here. Go Away.

            • Rose

              Also, this is like a skinny person with an extremely high metabolism waving an ice cream sundae in front of someone who is overweight and has diabetes, and saying “No, I’m not ashamed because you can’t have it. Too bad for you!” This is disgusting. You started the post, so if you can dish it out but can’t take it, you’d better leave. It’s like people on FB who post controversial things and then get offended when there is an argument. You WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOURSELF HERE.

            • E


              I certainly appreciate you answering my questions. It was good to see a perspective and I know that us betrayed spouses are going to be hostile and you must understand why.
              It is a painful thing to find out much of your life is a lie. I’ve had 3 years of intense therapy to be a the point where I am not lashing out at you because of you being the OW. I’m sure at reading the pther posts and stories that you see that the pain is raw and some of the betrayed spouses have more raw feels and jusgements that others and I won’t defend them, I won’t argue with with them because everyone has a story with the affair and right now I am curious about you because I see you as this open puzzle piece that I will never get in my world and I welcome it.
              The OW in my story is not like you, I know that. It’s also why I am not going to be hostile with you or mean because I am more curious about you than you may be about me.
              The OW in my story he used my family for years, lied to everyone including her own child to help keep the deceit and lies going and the used the excuse of having her son as the reason for the affair. My children were raised with her son. I changed his diapers, I watched him take his first steps and helped raise him. I don’t think you would be happy if another woman who lied to you had an emotional relationship with your children like this woman has with mine. The bonding theory of psychology is deep rooted in my children and how they feel about her. The don’t hate her, they don’t want to be around her and it’s because they know that the affair and the reason that she was in their life was morally wrong. These are the sins that she has and will carry with her for life. Lying to children and creating a fake life is something i think isn’t forgivable. (these are my judgements).

              The OW since the truth is out and she isn’t getting her way has pretty much avoided her son and of course it’s because she used him with the custody and child support as a weapon against my H so that she still had some pull in my H’s life.
              I know that my situation is very different than yours. I also know that your life is not as happy as you present, and no I’m attacking you, I also have read many blogs, posts and articles about what is in the OW’s mind. Also, how could it be happy when you are on a website like this and trying to see how the truth will affect your child? I believe when your daughter asks about the truth, the truth will be a lot easier as a mother to handle than lies and yes integrating her into his family (which she is a part of) will be hard on everyone. But, withholding her from him turns you into the person that we all hate and it’s not that we don’t see that our CS was also part of the issue….. It’s easier to blame the OW because we don’t see them every day, we aren’t having connection and trying to work with our lives and recover with the mistress. She doesn’t hear our pain and see the struggles of our lives. She gets to go and live her life and not think about the aftermath and chaos that comes with participating in a the lies.

              I don’t know the family of your ex. I can assure you that it might not be as you think it will be. It depends on the person and it depends on how much that Ex has worked on repairing his marriage and relationship with his kids. Yes, your daughter is a symbol of the affair and she will seen at first and this may have some rejection. This we can not predict nor can we control either. I also have read many articles about how the children feel and deal with the affair especially when they are a product of one.
              I will tell you the first years after the truth was known it wasn’t easy for my H’s relationship with his son. My daughter who is now an adult has rejected her brother more than I have or his brother. in the last 3 years this attitude from my daughter has changed towards him. My H’s son is now with us every weekend and I think that is more uncomfortable for a teenage boy than being a child because he knows the moral implications of his birth and upbringing and also knows why his brother attempted suicide 4 times this last year. Lots of pain to hold on to and know what your parents did and what you represent. It’s heartbreaking.
              No, it’s not going to be hard. It will bring some pain, and the BS will hate you. I still hate the OW in my H’s affair more than any person and that is because of the lies and deceit more than anything.


            • HEM

              So, you were having sex with a married “FWB,” and sex with other men, as well. You didn’t want a real relationship, just sex. Since sex was mediocre, it boggles the mind that you would continue to have sex with an unavailable man, along with others. You don’t see anything wrong with having an adulterous affair for 8 years, are upset that some may judge for your promiscuity?

              Now, after you have your child, you seem to foster a certain hatred for your partner’s family and a disgust towards them, virtually accusing them of being capable of harming a child if they ever came around your daughter? You are all good and right and harbor no ill-feelings towards your affair partner, but he and his family are vindictive a-holes who will harm your precious baby. While ignoring that you have harmed that man’s family?

          • LK

            Of course I understand the hostility and name calling that I’m receiving. Everyone needs a scapegoat and I made a choice as the OW to chime in to this blog, so vicious comments were expected. I expressed in my previous message to you what brought me here. Recall, I was inquiring on whether or not the BS can take the husband’s affair child away from the biological mom. When doing a search on affairs all sort of things come up including this website. It has been eye opening.

            Thank you for sharing more details of your situation. I admire you for opening your heart to the OW’s child. That’s truly selfless of you. I couldn’t imagine my daughter ever being in the same room with the BS. That would scare me.

            I do stand by what I said earlier that my life is happy. Perfect? Of course not. My life is happy because I don’t have any complications in my life and my child is healthy. I had to deal with some fallout when I was pregnant and also after my baby was born because of my unusual circumstances, but my loved ones were understanding and assured me that they love me and my baby. Don’t get me wrong, I still had some explaining to do. I had to come clean with my parents and loved ones about the CS and my part in knowingly sleeping with a married man. I am not looking for sympathy and I know it sounds cliché but the OW is still someone’s daughter, sister, aunt, best friend, and colleague. I needed support when I found out I was pregnant and I got plenty of it. I never wanted to be a mom because I didn’t know if I could handle that type of responsibility. That was for everyone else, not me. Anyway, I got more love and understanding than I ever thought possible when I was pregnant. Nobody passed judgement on me and I knew that I would never sleep with a married man again. My loved ones were excited that a baby was on the way despite the fact that she was conceived from an affair. Like I said in a previous message, I notified the CS of my pregnancy, but not because I had any expectations. He needed to know that he has a child on the way. He denied paternity up until the DNA test proved otherwise.

            Allow me to reiterate why I am keeping my daughter from her father. It’s not about control or having pull. I’m protecting my daughter from her flakey father. He’s already met her a few times, but every visit has been less than an hour and of course I knew why. The last time he saw her it was only for a few minutes; my daughter was in the middle of playing and coloring with him, he looked at his watch and he bolted out. My daughter looked at me and asked why he left. I told her the truth; he has to go home to his family. She didn’t ask anymore. Fast forward, he emailed me about 5 weeks later asking if he could stop by that same day and I told him “no” and I told him why. He accused me of wanting a life with him and I had to spell it out for him. I boldly told him that I don’t love him, never have and never will. I only ever cared for him as a friend.

            But if in the future he ever made himself more available (for our daughters sake) and his visits were consistent I would be on board with my daughter getting to know her father. I can only speculate that he’s in trouble right now with his wife and his adult children that still live with him. He needs to focus on his family and his wife needs to feel confident that he and I are no longer involved. The first time that the CS met his daughter he was under the impression that we would be intimate again. I rejected his advances and he seemed disappointed.

            Lastly, I had an unpredictable father while growing up who would stand me up almost every time we had scheduled a visit. I would sit on the curb full of excitement because I was looking forward to miniature golf and pizza, and sometimes I would wait for hours. I hated coming to the realization that he was not showing up this time and that I got stood up again. So, when I tell the CS that he cannot visit his daughter because he isn’t reliable, I am protecting my daughter from the heartbreak that I went through having an absentee father. People are entitled to their opinions and are free to hate me because I will not settle for sporadic visits from the CS. I’m not willing to sit there and watch my daughter’s heart break. My loved ones support my decision and that’s all that matters.

            E, you sound like an amazing woman. If the OW knew they were hurting someone as kind as you I can only hope they would have second thoughts about sleeping with your husband and manipulating your family. I know some of the CS paint a picture of their wives being neglectful and say they were cheated on too, which is what I was told perhaps to clear his conscience. I bought the story to clear my own conscience. I’ll never know if any of it was true.

            Thanks again for your insightful messages.

            • boxingday

              You came to a forum of people you knew were upset and hurting about this in their lives and said to the people who are victims “It’s just sex!” shrug! No care, no remorse, and like you don’t even think it’s wrong. You’re getting rightfully blamed here. Rightfully called out for some serious BS.

              It would be one thing entirely if you expressed some kind of remorse for having an affair with a married man, admitting it was wrong, and acknowledging anything about the pain you caused innocent victims of your affair (his wife and kids) while also saying you didn’t want to marry the guy so this part isn’t true for all APs. I don’t think anyone would have had the reactions they had to you if you had said anything like that.
              Even if you just would have said “I had an affair with someone I didn’t want to marry” and that’s it with no explanation that would have been better than what you said.
              I sure wouldn’t have said a word to you if you had done either of those.

            • boxingday

              And I’m calling you out for this serious BS too:
              “If the OW knew they were hurting someone as kind as you I can only hope they would have second thoughts about sleeping with your husband and manipulating your family. I know some (<Let me fix this for you: ALL) of the CS paint a picture of their wives being neglectful and say they were cheated on too, which is what I was told perhaps to clear his conscience. I bought the story to clear my own conscience. I’ll never know if any of it was true."

              1) If people here are angry with you it doesn't mean they're not kind people or deserving of being cheated on. They're pushed to their limits and have had ENOUGH. I am sick of letting crap slide.

              2) You are telling us you believe it's okay to sleep with married men if you *THINK* his wife might be terrible. Like someone not being a perfect person makes sleeping with their husband okay?! Do you think it's punishment for them and they deserve it? You talk about viciousness and hatefulness – this is it right here! A woman you've most likely never met and have never known at all and you feel like you know all about her and she deserves the incredible pain and destruction you caused because you *think* she might be horrible? So do you think you deserve someone doing this to you since you definitely aren't a perfect person?
              And the ONLY reason you even think the things you do about her or their marriage is because a man who wanted to cheat on his wife – the least credible source of information on his wife and marriage at that moment – told you this.
              Despite it all, you WANTED to believe it, like you said, to clear your own conscience. This also gives me evidence for my own theory that OWs use any excuse they can to cross the "but you're married" barrier. They want to have the affair so as soon as they have some reason to justify it to themselves, they take it. The lie sparks and fuels the affair. He lies to you, and you know he's lying, and then you keeping repeating the lie to yourself. Lies sparked the affair and keep it going.

              Doug has posted about telling these exact same lies on here. Other cheaters come here admitting they told these exact same lies too. And they all say it is almost never true. Every single cheated on person here has repeatedly talked about how they were lied about.

              Although, again, even she was neglectful that gives you NO RIGHT or EXCUSE to do what you did. Seeing this at the end of your post? Now I know the reason you sit here talking to us like what you did wasn't wrong and don't seem to care at all about the innocent victims of your actions is because you've convinced yourself they're not innocent or victims. You *DID* hurt innocent people.

              Just wait until you're on the other side of this. When you get to experience the reality of the pain you've caused someone else: When you're a wonderful wife who thinks her husband is the love of her life. You work hard at having a good relationship. You love your little family. You build a beautiful life together and after decades of being together, you're still excited to see him everyday. Then you have to deal with the insanity-inducing, soul-crushing pain of having the love of your life cheat on you with some two bit whore he just met. You get to hear all the horrible, hateful lies he's told about you. You get all this new, inexplicable abuse – mental, emotional, and even physical and sexual because he becomes a monster to you (isn't great to know that OWs CAUSE abuse?!) out of guilt. Do you have any idea how painful it is to hear the person who is supposed to love you say things like that? How painful it is to have your partner and HUSBAND screwing another woman? And that ignorant POS says "It's okay. She's horrible because he told me so!" When SHE'S the one so horrible, and selfish and immoral to have an affair with a married man?
              After your life has been completely destroyed and you're homeless living on an f'n couch having to completely rebuild, having trust issues for years, having to deal with the anger and pain every single day, waking up to a completely new life and reality you didn't deserve to hear some hussy say "It was just sex! shrug!" It wasn't just sex to your now destroyed life, was it?! Oh but's it's okay as long as she thinks your'e awful because he told her you were and as long as you're "awful" sleeping with your husband is a-ok! Like I said, you threw a grenade and pranced away because your actions didn't affect you and that's all you care about.

            • Sharon

              Scapegoat?! Poor poor you! You have some audacity! The victim who played the ground work to be victimized… willingly! Didn5 get pregnant on purpose… he had a vasectomy. So you’re saying you werent trying to get pregnant by any other the numerous other lovers you were having sex with? Sure it wasnt on purpose. Definitely not on purpose! WoW! This is a new level and crazier example self righteous sanctimonious. Let’s add narcissist to the ‘name calling’! After all… if the shoe fits… its gotta be yours! (If it isn’t yours it should be thrown at your empty skull!)

        • VW


          I’ll be unpopular, too, and say I see a LOT of incorrect assumptions in this blog post. A young woman who’s had a hysterectomy is automatically assumed to have cancerous HPV? Oh, my. Judge-y much? And some people who have affairs with married people do it that way precisely so that it will stay casual. They don’t want to steal a spouse, because they don’t want a spouse. I get that. What I don’t get is why anyone would ever even consider taking back a cheating husband (or wife, for that matter) ESPECIALLY if they have children. What kind of example is that for daughters? And even worse, what kind of message are you sending your sons? I guarantee, if I ever found out my husband cheated, I’d be gone INSTANTLY. No do-overs. No second chances. That’s a hard limit. It’s called self-respect. “Fool me once” and all that jazz.

          While you may not have made 100% flawless decisions your entire life (who does?), I think you’re dealing with the fallout pretty well. Lemons into lemonade and whatnot. Just so you know, someone saw you, and is on your side. As to the other side…maybe some of these wives should consider living in a place like Saudi Arabia, or some similar backward-thinking country, rather than to undermine the progress women have made in the developed world.

          Before anyone asks, no, I’m not an other woman, a cheating wife, or a doormat. I just stumbled in here while surfing, and became a little outraged at what was being promoted. Smh…

          • Sarah P.

            Hello VW,

            You are pretty invested in the content even though you just stumbled upon here. I wanted to talk about some things you mentioned.

            1) Having a hysterectomy could be due to many factors, including the presence HPV. There are many reasons for hysterectomies.

            2) Having an affair is NEVER casual. The people having an affair want to believe it is casual, but it simply cannot be casual by definition. I have a casual relationship with the man who bags my groceries at Safeway, But, if one day I were to permit that man to penetrate my vagina, the relationship in no longer casual. It would mean I have just begun an affair and penetration makes things very serious indeed.

            3) Progress is not measured by whether or not a society is more cavalier about their views on married strangers penetrating each other in 100 different configurations. (Providing hip joints and hopefully rubber band like bodies will accommodate). Otherwise, it’s just the old missionary. Oh the horror; the missionary position. It’s so 18th century missionary, isn’t it.

            4) If you align the concept of sexual license with progress women have made in the developing world, wrong again. Nope, does not hold water. You see, us women had to fight long and hard to disband to get sexual license on the terms of men alone. Women were otherwise property, their bodies connected to the whims of powerful men, and the law of prima notca. What the heck is that? Prima nocta is the semi-historical legal right of a monarch to have sex with any female subject, particularly on her wedding night. Yes, women in the past were deflowered by the KIng, whether they liked it or not. And if Cinderella was real, the King/Prince would have deflowered the sisters regardless of glass slippers. The image of a glass slipper shattering is quite poignant. (Don’t tell the kids, but I am pretty sure the glass slipper has a double meaning. Nudge, nudge). And it;s kind of like the shattering if glass at a Jewish wedding,,, not subtle at all!

            5) Sigh… VW, I am being VERY SERIOUS here. If you read the site a little more, you will find many women who used to have the same rule as you do…. leave that man if you find out he had an affair. These women find themselves here because they realized that they would leave their husband if he had an affair….then he did,…and life just is not simple.

            Thanks for stopping by, WV,


            PS- Anyone watching “The Morning Show” made by Apple? Its one heck of a fictional drama and infidelity is at its center. I give it 5 stars.

            • E

              Oh Sarah…. How I appreciate your words of wisdom.


            • Sarah P.

              Much love to you, E. How are you doing, my friend?

            • Sarah P.

              PPS- A word about HPV. The Human Papillomavirus is a virus that is responsible for all warts on the human body. There are three kinds that are essentially dangerous because they have the possibility of becoming cancerous. There are over 200 kinds of HPV and some of them are sexually transmitted while others are not. The ones that cause physical warts that you can see on your genitals generally do not become cancerous. But, anything is possible.

              The HPV virus that does become cancerous OFTEN shows up on a pap smear before it shows physical symptoms IF a woman gets regular screenings.

              I say get screened once a year to be safe, but anyone else’s MD could advise otherwise depending on many factors.

              Now onto a quick anatomy lesson. If a woman has a hysterectomy, what HPV does or does not do has nothing to do with a hysterectomy. If a woman has cancerous HPV and happens to have a hysterectomy, she is still infected with cancerous HPV. It could be hiding out in her vagina or anus.

              Unfortunately, HPV is a slippery thing. CONDOMS DON’T PREVENT IT. HYSTERECTOMIES ALSO DON’T PREVENT IT. A person can use a condom and if they have HPV, it will be transmitted. It could manifest as a nasty wart that looks like white cauliflower filled with oozing puss OR it can look like nothing at all. HPV can infect: the anus, the vagina, the cervix, the uterus, and the penis and testicles.

              Hope no one just threw up in their mouth. So sorry!

              Speaking of mouths… you can get HPV in your mouth and throat if you are performing or receiving oral sex. Imagine hundreds of those white cauliflower things on your tongue. I know, right?

              So, let’s just pretend we are all hip and cool with spouse swapping and key parties and people being the baby mamas to married men.

              HPV is still there. It does NOT matter if we are cool with affairs or not.

              There is only one way to protect oneself from HPV:

              1) Get tested to ensure you don’t have the virus; then join a nunnery.

              2) Get tested to ensure you don’t have the virus; then go live alone in a cabin in the woods with Ben the Bear.

              3) Get tested to ensure you don’t have the virus; then get your spouse tested to see if they do or don’t have the virus. Then get tested together every, single year. (If they have the virus, run far away). Have a post-nup agreement drawn up that says if you get HPV, you get ALL the money. But… even then….Don’t have any form of sex until someone has proved themselves worthy of the sacred vessel that is YOUR BODY.

              I still prefer option #2.

              But, you see, I had cancerous HPV and it was a surprise because I did not know that:

              a) There was another woman.

              b) That cancer could be transmitted via sex.

              Judging from my blog posts some might think I am a goodie two shoes. There is a song from the 80’s that explains me… “Don’t drink, don’t smoke, what do you do?”

              Truly, I don’t know how the guy found time to have an affair. Sure, at the time, I was working late on what has proved to be one of the most important projects in entire world: building 3G and 4G technology infrastructures. But, we had time together twice a day for the duration of our relationship. I found him extremely attractive and he appeared to be equally amorous.

              But, whoops, one day…..some woman spread her legs and he fell and tripped into her vagina. And I got HPV. Let me tell you how fun that humiliating and life-shattering situation was. (SARCASM!)

              Anyways, I don’t like loop holes. There are NO loop holes when it comes to infidelity. There is no getting off Scot free. There is no way to have an affair that prevents others from suffering. That just does NOT exist.

              If you are one of those women or men who said “I will throw the cheating bastard out if he has an affair” and then did NOT throw the cheating bastard out, raise your hand….

              If you kept the cheater, I don’t blame you. I am here to support YOU.

            • boxingday

              I think this is probably LK herself using a sockpuppet, a friend of hers, or this is another crappy OW pretending like she doesn’t have a dog in the fight so that she can hate on wives and try to justify herself. She says she’s not a cheater or OW, sure Jan! She sure sounds exactly like one.
              It wasn’t easy to find this site when I was researching affairs. This didn’t come up in my searches until it was too late for me so it’s pretty hard to just stumble in here without specific search terms or following links which means she could be reading articles or forums about cheating.

              And it’s amazing – amazing I tell you! – that she immediately and only identifies with the other women even though she totally isn’t one. But she truly cannot understand how a wife who’s been with her husband for decades and loves him and made the what’s supposed to be a life-long commitment to marry him would want to work past cheating as if it’s never been done before. She’s totally not an OW! LOL
              She plays up acting like cheaters can never change like they’re the worst people so we should immediately leave them but she doesn’t say the same about the OW. Someone needs to tell her to try not to be so obvious about being an OW next time.

              I laughed out loud at her absolutely insane and ridiculous comment. I LOVE the gaslighting and hysterical assertion that we’re unsupportive of other women because we don’t let them get off scott-free f’ing our husbands because that’s a totally normal, cool, and very progressive thing now. LMFAO!!!!

              And the assertion that we should live in oppressive countries because we think women shouldn’t sleep with married men?! Just wow. This person is batshit insane. Clearly insane and not living in reality when making the assertion that f’ing a married man is somehow a definitive way to have casual sex without a relationship. THE ONLY WAY! So we should be totally cool with it. Because no one ever caught feelings with a married man and no single men who chomp at the bit for casual sex are ever able to keep it strictly no-strings-attached. Love how she expects us to swallow this utter bullshit!

              Her comment has the classic OW script too: 1) The downplaying of cheating with a married man as simply “not being perfect” and it’s a mistake “anyone can make.” ROTFLMAO!!! I think they really do believe everyone else is as terrible as them and have as bad character like they do but maybe they think we’re all lying that we wouldn’t do it. NOPE! The rest of us have self respect and morals. None of us are perfect and we all do have flaws and make mistakes, but we would NOT do that! I am a human and definitely have flaw and makes mistakes, but I respect other people’s relationships even if one of the parties in it doesn’t and I would NEVER want to hurt another woman or her children like that. And I’m simply not selfish or immoral enough to do it. The whole idea of that is horrific. 2) the demonizing of the the only people who haven’t done anything wrong: the innocent cheated on wives who are victims of the OW and cheaters. Don’t you know how horrible we are because we don’t buy the lies and excuses the OW feed us and we tell them some hard truths about themselves instead of congratulating them on destroying families and hurting people? We are soooo horrible! How anti-woman of us to not be cool with someone who so assininely and selfishly tries to destroy our families! And we totally deserve to be cheated on if we dare angrily talk back to these B-words and point out truths about them.

              NO ONE CARES if you personally caught feelings for the husbands or not. Some OW don’t and some do. Your existence as someone who didn’t doesn’t negate the ones who do. NO ONE CARES if you started the affair because you just wanted casual sex or did it to poach a spouse. NO ONE CARES. You know why? Because no matter why you did it and no matter how you felt doing it, you still destroyed marriages and families and hurt innocent people. Your actions and the effects of your actions on others are exactly the same regardless. Your choices make you a bad person. Baseline decent people don’t this. If that fact hurts to hear, then maybe do something to change your moral compass.

            • E


              I’m doing okay as I can this time of year. The holidays when dealing with affair recovery gets tricky especially when the OW was there celebrating for many years with my family…. Extremely cruel of her and yes I am hateful more so towards her this time of year. Who does that? Takes what should be happy memories and twists it to become a Krumpis nightmare.

              However, I’m working on staying positive… Even though I’m lonely this time of year. It’s hard to vocalize to family and friends those feelings because they don’t understand the pain of betrayal and a broken heart.

              This year i started a new job a couple months ago so my husband is visiting his family out of the country and my son is with him because i didn’t want to leave him home alone. Last year at this time he was in a hospital with his 4th suicide attempt so i feel much better knowing he’s there. Also i don’t trust my husband so having my son there makes my anxiety at ease. I couldn’t get the time off and so I’m alone this holiday season.
              I told my personal therapist that i needed more sessions over the holiday season just to keep my head on straight.
              I’ve cried alot over the last couple weeks but more for missing my mother because she died a couple years ago and I’m not sure why but this year I’m thinking more about her so…. That sums up how I’m doing.


        • NoNamedPerson

          You have given me Hope. I might be pregnant by a married man. We did it for two years before he ever even told me he was married. I didn’t pursue someone’s husband. We were in a long distance relationship but still managed to see each other a couple times a week. Like I said it’sin two and a half years now and for the last six months he has been begging me to stay in his life and promising me that that relationship is over.when we first started dating he told me that he had a vasectomy and only after everything came out about him being married did he admit that he does not have a vasectomy and that’s only because his wife told me! I have never been on birth control and my whole life and quite frankly birth control is not something that I’ve ever wanted in my body. but nobody is out here trying to get pregnant on purpose. He moved to my same city and got a job here just to be with me. He has played with my head for 6 months and now I’m most likely pregnant. He promises to be there and wants to take care of me and the child but this is just not how I envisioned our future together. Even though hehe had a vasectomy in the beginning he used to talk about wanting a baby with me all the time I should have seen this as a red flag why would a man get a vasectomy if he desired to have more children in the future. He has always talked about me having a baby for him. I was just stupid enough to believe that he would do it the right way with me. Either way once I get over the shame that my family will have for me in the beginning this child is a blessing and I know that they will love me and my child and that we will be okay.

          • HEM

            Good grief! Do you honestly think you can have a decent, truthful relationship with this man? Having an affair for two years, even after you found out he is married and doesn’t have a vasectomy? Then, you think you are pregnant, because you “haven’t had birth control in your body?” How about condoms?

        • Shanika


        • The Wife

          You sound stupid as if your living a fairytale. According to the Bible, your child is a bastard and you will NEVER have any good luck. 🍀 You didn’t get pregnant on purpose? You sound stupid for real. Your
          Karma is coming just like the rest of these hoes.

          • B.

            You miserable women REFUSE to make these men take ANY responsibility. I never knew he was married. so some how it’s still my fault that her husband lied, painted a completely different life than he lived. Went to great lengths to cover it up. Manipulated all parties. For god sakes he moved to my same city and made me have no question that he was a single man, so wtf are you delusional bitches talking about. Maybe your husbands clearly see that y’all are delusional. And no i wasn’t trying to get pregnant “on purpose” in the ways that this thread is implying. Like it was some desperate attempt to trap someones husband. This website comforts the delusions that your husbands are incapable of stepping out without being brainwashed, by some overtly sexual demon goddess who sucks men dry of will power and semen. GET A GRIP!!! your relationships had problems and you might have been too delusional to see it or accept it! I didn’t steal that man from anyone and i damn sure didn’t know about it. Many of you women fail to admit on these posts that you may have been with your husbands 10-15+ years, but you have either caught him cheating or had suspicions of him cheating several times throughout your marriage. Yet it’s everyone elses fault that you didn’t have the self esteem to do better. You desperately need it to be the other woman’s fault no matter what the facts are because you women are not strong enough to accept that the person you love, fell in love with someone else, by his own will. And FYI i ended up not being pregnant. And he fell to the ground in tears because he was so upset. And i don’t let bitches on the internet tell me what my Karma will be. Because it will be his, not mine. I didn’t lie to someone and trick them, i didn’t dishonor my marriage, i didn’t commit adultery, i didn’t do any of that. He did that. And YOU accepted that as love. You want to stay with your husbands because that is love to you. You love being cheated on. You love being bitter and hurt. You love coming on the internet to redirect your anger at yourself to the woman your husbands made you believe is better than you. If you didn’t believe it you wouldn’t be on here doing this Bullshit. Meanwhile, i get to be free. I learned a very big lesson about how to recognize a manipulative person, how to ask more questions an i learned what i WILL NOT settle for as a wife. I am freeee, you are stuck in your bitterness by trying to hold on to the person who has betrayed you. so that you can come online and defend your delusions as to why you love being unloved by someone who’s in love with someone else.. i guess i would hate the other woman too…

            • E

              In my experience affairs aren’t about love. They are about selfishness. It’s not easy to give up a 20 year marriage like you think it would be especially when there is more than husband and wife involved. I’m not judging you as being the other woman and your opinions are yours.
              Affairs have a lot of pain in them and the lies that occur to keep secrets and the lengths to keep them sometimes hurt more than the hidden relationship. Yes, being another woman in this blog will probably be hard and i do understand why you are being defensive. The married woman here are not delusional, they are in pain. Being in pain after you discover an affair especially with a mistress having a child is very painful and takes years to recover from if anything. I personally have had 4 years of intense therapy, my husband also has had 4 years of intense therapy. We have been in couple counseling, family therapy… It’s been harder than i think you understand. My own son has tried 4 times to take his own life….. And that is because he discovered the affair and tore him upside and destroyed his innocence. How is that delusional when the mistress isn’t there to be accountable for her being apart of lies that have destroyed a family? You said these women aren’t being accountable… I think it would be a good thing to review your words and realize that the mistress doesn’t pick up the pieces from damaging a family she of course is free because she doesn’t have to be accountable…. I also find it interesting that you say your free, yet if i was free i probably wouldn’t be on this blog.


            • Me

              Hello B,

              Sarah doesn’t write the blog for other women with your very defensive and cruel attitude. This is not a blog where other women like yourself are welcome UNLESS you would like to have a civil and polite conversation with betrayed wives in order for each side to gain some understanding. If you would like to have a civil conversation with betrayed wives and understand their side of the story with an open mind, I would venture to guess that you would be welcome here.

              But, judging from your comment you are here to do several very UNPRODUCTIVE things, which include attacking betrayed wives. These unproductive tactics you take do not lead to civil conversations. Where civil conversation does not exist, it’s very difficult for people with opposing views to create a metaphorical bridge in which each person can express their viewpoint and their viewpoint can be considered. I would recommend the book “How to Win Friends and Influence People” so that you can learn the art of civil conversation.

              Relationship problems do NOT cause infidelity. That is a well-researched phenomenal in infidelity studies that are done for psychologists by psychologists. Read M. Gary Neuman’s books. People have affairs because they can. The data indicates that a husband can rate his own marriage as both sexually and emotionally satisfying and he can still have an affair.(Source is M. Gary Neuman). It’s very simple really. Men are visual. If a half-way attractive woman engages them in conversation and that woman sends out signals that she might be up for a fun time, then many men will go for it, if they can get away with it. If a woman is not attractive, but strokes his ego, that can also be enough. Ego stroking is powerful. And if a woman is not attractive, paper bags come in handy and since they are environmentally friendly, this is certainly a plus. Paper or plastic, such a tough choice!

              Yes, you are indeed “freeee” as you put it. Using four “E’s” is a nice touch. I am sure the married man who you had an affair with appreciated the fact that you are freeee. Times are tough and money is tight. A freeee woman is so difficult to find these days. I am sure he thanks you profusely for your generous and freeee service. Call girls are so expensive these days. Truly. The corona virus and social distancing has caused their prices to sky rocket.

              Judging from your comment, you are not here to have a real dialogue. So, neither am I.

              But, I do thank you for giving a peek into the minds of how other women such as yourself think. The way you present yourself just proves the point of the spouse poaching article.

              Regarding the concept of a sexual demon Goddess. That is an oxymoron. Goddesses come from higher planes of existence. Goddess = the female version of God. Demons live on the lowest plane of existence.

              A Demon Goddess doesn’t exist. The term you are looking for is succubus. A succubus is a sexual female demon who does indeed prey on men. She seeks them out with a singular focus: to hope they follow her to lower realms of existence. There is so much fire in hell that it doesn’t sting as much if there are more souls to share tbt burning sensation. I guess you can’t blame them.

              If you don’t wake up, you are going to find yourself miserable, old, and alone. Old and alone is not a good place to be. Take a look in the mirror and look at all the choices you made to bring you to this place. You are the bitter one. You lost.

              The betrayed wives here are here due to people like you who came along like a tornado and tore up everything that was meaningful to them. And after most people get hit by tornados, they choose to rebuild their house as a family.

              I sincerely hope you get therapy so that you can stop haunting a blog written for innocent betrayed spouses who played no role in their own destruction.

              I do agree that men should not take the bait, but mistresses also make a choice to open their legs. Practicing keeping your knees closed is an exercise I would recommend. If you are not good at it, industrial duct tape does the job.



            • B

              you don’t think I understand that emotional affairs have pain. But the reason why I say delusional is because the majority of the women on this blog sitting here acting like every woman that a man has cheated with who is married just saw something that they wanted and went after it when that is not the case. That’s the point that I’m trying to make. And no I’m not going to be accountable for damage that I caused in your marriage because I didn’t fucking do it on purpose so I’m not going to sit here and take responsibility for something I didn’t know I was doing or was even aware about. He needs to take responsibility but take the bullshit somewhere else with acting like it’s anybody else’s fault truly but his. I was responding to the person who responded to my comment calling me a hoe and saying that my child would have been a bastard when how is it my fault that he lied to me the same way that he lied to his entire family. He had me around his mom and his siblings I had no clue that he was married they didn’t even act as if it was a thing. Their marriage was estranged at some point. They acted as if they were ready to welcome me into their family and everything so pardon me if I feel that is delusional to act as if I poached someone’s fucking poor unwitting husband. If you think that that is okay to continue to spend that narrative you are in fact delusional. I’m aware that things like this cause pain after I was cheated on as well regardless of whether you think that it doesn’t count because he was married I went through a similar devastation finding out that the man that I was in love with and was planning a future with had already promised a future to someone else. And I wasn’t looking for sympathy on this blog I simply came across it because at the time I thought that he had gotten me pregnant but it turned out that I wasn’t pregnant. And I just felt like I needed to stick up for the women that they would love to believe Are just so evil that there was nothing better to do than to steal someone’s husband. And actually yes I am free now because I choose to be free not sit online and bash other women for the choices of others. You cannot heal by being better. This was not the first or the last time that I’ve been cheated on. obviously yes these women are in pain and I recognize that but they need to realize that their husband’s actions are his own and yes there are women that do know that a man is married and get involved but in most cases and at least in a lot of cases men lie and they mislead people and that’s exactly what happened to me. And I will not be paying out as some type of hoe or homewrecker when the wreckage was in fact hidden from me.

            • B


              Again delusional LOL. You ignore the comment where she called me a hoe in my would have been child a bastard but yet I’m divisive and unwilling to have true dialogue. My original comment was actually non divisive Toward the married women at all. I simply told my experience about how I did not know that the man I was dealing with was married and I still got attacked and called a hoe. This is my point exactly delusional. and I didn’t come on here to Hunt married women you sound fucking ridiculous. I was at a time that I was also hurting. And I came across this thread.you guys literally are making up all these scenarios are what you think the other woman was doing in your head.even other commenters that were the cheated on spouse have, that how this blog is biased and nurturing very divisive emotions. And yes I am free sweetheart.and that was cute how you tried to imply that I was a call girl and how I was going to end up bitter and alone. But look at you bitter and alone and on a blog about how your husband has Falling into the arms of someone else. Mean while I was able to learn from the situation and walk away from it. I could have continued to settle for him and then madly in love and try to fight for him back but I simply looked at him and said. I do not want to be her and at this point you have nothing to offer me. Yet you want to be mad at me because that’s the shit that you want to believe it’s love like I said delusional. You want me to hate myself but the truth is I want and I never will because I DIDN’T KNOW. My original comment was almost 6 months ago and the original incident of me finding out has been almost a year and I’ve already moved on but I keep getting email notifications about replies to this thread. Just thought that I’d given update that I’ve moved on my life and no one is hunting poor hurt wives. Like I said I was also going through something at the time and I could really care less if you guys don’t sympathize for me I don’t expect you to I’m just saying don’t get lost in your delusion.

            • E

              I don’t always respond on this blog unless I feel like a need to. Getting sympathy for being part of the affair isn’t the reason this blog is here and I do understand you want to be heard. I think that the way you went about it doesn’t get a response you hopefully expected and only justified why the OW is hated by betrayed spouses.
              To be accountable for an affair as the other woman to me would mean her ending all contact and getting professional help for herself. I personally don’t want anything not even knowledge that my H’s baby mama is alive. It’s not hate it’s because nothing good came from a relationship of lies and only gave pain. If you really want respect and to be heard, then don’t be. Like the post you made. No one listens to someone when they attack others. Of course 3 years ago I might have said horrible things to you in this blog because I was in a different stage of recovery and wouldn’t have thought about my words.

              I just want you to see the perspective from a betrayed spouse about being defensive. Being defensive in the world of betrayed spouses shows that you are hiding things, that you want to not talk about things that were of your doing and you know it hurt others and blame shifting to minimize your own accountability or that guilty feelings are at play. There isn’t an attack here with what I am saying it’s me advising to have open dialogue both people have to have respect.
              I wasn’t perfect in my marriage. I also didn’t cause my husband to cheat. Cheating is a personal choice and it hurts everyone including the mistress. Just let’s be respectful in this blog going forward so maybe you can be heard and that doesn’t mean you won’t see haters. It happens, it’s how you respond that will show what kind of person you are.

            • HEM

              But, you still stayed with him and continued the AFFAIR after finding out he was 1) married and 2) didn’t have vasectomy?

              No one here has excused their cheating spouses, ever. The women know their husbands are wrong. But, so are the people who are the affair partners. Granted, if you didn’t know he was married. But, when you found out? Why stay with him

        • Adekiite

          You are a fraud and a liar.

        • Dre


        • Artemis8u

          So for 8byears you slept with a married man? Take himnfor support and then deny him visitation?

          • Apple P. Scott

            Artemis8u, your life of hell will come in time. You should’ve been using condons to prevent you from giving the wife a STD. Women who sleep with married men have no problem with sleeping with any/everyone. Your judgement day is coming if you haven’t start experiencing it. Remember the power of God.

        • Tasha Welch - A Missouri Native

          It’s truly entirely disgusting how openly and nonchalantly you discuss emotionally and financially destroying a fellow female and her right to her hopes and dreams and to keep her family intact. You clearly had no regard for her life, her family, and their future . You act as if you were doing nothing wrong sleeping with her husband and forcing her to accept your illegitimate child . This wasn’t just one bad decision that you made in a moment of weakness. But for 8 long years! Over and over again you chose yourself and your happiness. Seemingly having no guilt or shame over your treacherous deceit. I don’t believe it is possible that you truly thought that having this illegitimate child would or could ever be an acceptable thing for this family. The fact that you felt you had the right to steal money from this woman’s household because of your very bad decision making skills is trifling at best. Why should she have to support your child ? Shame on you AND he BOTH!! IT IS A BIG DEAL! You should try to at least pretend have a modicum of decency and respect… Women like you tear the fabric of friendship and loyalty among women.. How can women ever make their way
          In this “man’s world” and show how strong we can be when we undermine each other? Our right to be respected and held in high regard by everyone equally comes crashing down around us when we forget to lift each other up. As trivial and mundane as you may think it is, our decisions in life set the stage for future generations. You make a mockery of us all and what we stand for. Women need to uphold each other to set the example for our daughters’ and their daughters after them. Strong independent women DO NOT undermine each other. Or so easily disgrace and degrade themselves with sad manipulative attention seeking behaviors. Being a husband stealing home wrecking tart doesn’t set the bar very high. Tweak The assumption that women are weak, fickle and slaves to their hormones and emotions. Real women don’t so desperately seek male approval that they’re willing to be a “side hoe (Yep, I said it. It had to be said) Honey, thats what our fathers are for.. Now If your father never told you as a lil girl that you were important & pretty & that he loved you.,.. Well, that’s what therapist’s are for . Not another woman’s husband. You really shouldn’t try to deal with your “daddy issues” lying under a married man who told you you were pretty in an attempt to get laid. We show the world how how we want to be treated. You clearly don’t respect yourself. Which is why I have no problem whatsoever in not showing you no respect either.
          Sincerely Repulsed,
          Tasha Welch

        • Anna w.

          Fuck you. Your a whore like it or not. You should have known better. These desperate for love bitches are a disgrace to society. They should be hung for their disgusting behavior. No one really wants you, so you go after a married man.?? Are you mentally sick? Then if you get pregnant z after knowing what the consequences could be, then you go after him for money? Just like the man needs to be held accountable, the whore should be punished for what she intentionally did and the abomination should be either adopted out or remain with the mother with no help. You knew pregnancy was on the table, as did he, but woman are being rewarded for this type of behavior.

          • Miranda

            Ladies let’s be real the men are the ones who initiated any sexual desire if not her than the next one. If you’re with a cheater, you’re with a cheater and no, they don’t change. Sorry at the end of the day a snake will shed. Its skin a million times but it’s still going to be a snake. It’ll never be a f****** rabbit. However, I dated I’m still in dating somebody who in fact had a baby while we were together with another woman. I was upset truly. At first it really hurt me and I don’t like the fact that he talks to her. But for the sake of their child I feel it’s acceptable and much needed. I grew up without a father in my home. I didn’t know what it feels like to watch another man raise somebody else’s baby while leaving you out. I don’t want that feeling for anybody especially not if I can help it. He’s 100% completely involved in his child’s life and I expect it to be that way. As a mother of two children, I’d expect the same for my own kids father no matter what the circumstances were. So we were together for 5 and 1/2 years. So the kids that I have do not belong to my boyfriend. And it was before he ever came around. So my kids’ dad is very involved. My kids go there every weekend and we co-parent just fine. The fact that my boyfriend got another girl pregnant while we were together broke my heart, but as a mature and responsible woman of two kids, I feel that it is necessary for him to be in his child’s life. Therefore, custody battle for 50/50 rights is necessary. Him being in the child’s life is necessary. The baby did not ask to be born. Nor did it ask to have the parents that it was given. So I don’t feel like the baby should be punished because two grown adults couldn’t manage to drink and not keep it in their pants. Did I choose to stay with him? Yes and that’s a choice that I thought about long and hard but at the end of the day everybody makes mistakes. Do I think that he loves me and only me no do I know he looks at other girls probably. Do I doubt that this will ever happen again? Probably not. But I love him for exactly who he is. I accept him for all his flaws and at the end of the day. Unconditional love means being with somebody without judging them. I don’t know what kind of boy he was trying to fill He says he was because she had a lot of money and he was just trying to get her to pay for some of his stuff and give him money and it was an accident and only happened one time. But either way regardless it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day it was a choice that he made. And now a consequence that he will have to deal with for the rest of his life. The other woman doesn’t know about me even though I was here first. I know everything about her and all about their relationship and even though she was the mistress, I respect his stupid ass boundaries and his stupid ass wishes to stay a secret in order to make sure to keep everything simple for when he goes to court. However, as a mother I would do everything I can to make sure that he is the father that he should be to a child but he bears. And any other woman who would try to hold a man away from his child, regardless of who the mother is is childish and just as absurd as the woman who slept with him. We are not to judge nor are we to no what was said to this woman or the things he did in order to woo her. Or the secrets that he kept. She should not be punishing nor should that kid. And at the end of the day if you’re going to stay with your cheating ass husband, it’s not something you should be bitching about anyways, because the only time you should really be complaining about something is if you’re going to leave. Otherwise you’re just opening your mouth for no reason. And nobody likes a nagger. Either leave or suck it up in a be an adult and let him be the father that he needs to be to both your child and that other child. Grow up for all adults

        • This article was dumb but here I am

          He wants to see his kid why don’t you let him? Heck your knew him for right years 🙄

        • Jenny

          Thank you for your reply. It is brave in the face of this article. I hate the sanctimonious tone of the author. One line I’d love to shove down her throat is when she called the cleaner a nobody. As though her job makes her less of a human.

          Personally I am sorry for wives hurt by cheating husbands but it is totally illogical to blame another person for their dishonesty.

          If you set yourself up as someone who can comment on the morals of others then you must yourself be without moral flaws. Those flaws are 100% evident in the author. Maybe she’d personally never be the other woman but she is clearly no saint because of how she views other people. Her article makes no attempt at compassion or understanding. I can’t see how it genuinely will help anyone.

      • Heather

        Personally, I do have a universal benefits system. Although, I also have a no doormat belief system as well. K. If I was married w children and surprise baby mammA came over unannounced making demands to include herself in our lives. I would tell her she needs to go back where she came from write down her license plate. I would e plain to my children what the woman has done to our family and their father and they could f o emerald the I r own opinions as to how they respond to thrives. Next, I would sit my husband down to see if he wanted to be w me or her or both of us. And, if he said me I would have him first get fixed and tested f sets h I v before anything else, counseling before I gave my self to him. Next, he will get a laser to obtain full custody of our child we will than change the child’s name to Ishmal from the bible or if a girl Hagar. And, DNA test. Next, I would have all interaction w the mother if th e ‘re was a visitation. I would use her for loss of affection of my husband, in which she would have to get a lawyer and waiting f a DNA test w out child support and working 2 jobs paying f day care she will not have time f a baby because of working 2 jobs. Although, if she called up and told the news I am pregnant, I would say that is wonderful,notify us when our baby is here so I could name my child. And, have our lawyers there f d n a t eat so the baby could go home with his parents. I have to go now because I will be registering f baby shower gifts and having my husband buy us a crib f our new baby. Thanks, again f the news. Although, if I did not have children I would divorce and run to never look back.

      • Apple P. Scott

        Heather, your opinion is no match for someone who has this experience. I am pretty sure you would have done and said worse if you were the wife in this situation or if this happened to a family member that you love. It sounds as if you are the other woman… are you?

    • Joey

      Always thought-provoking, Sarah!

      It was interesting when you said that unfaithful husbands are still intimate with their wives. In my situation, my ex’s AP went back to his wife after number ddays and false reconciliations, and his wife and myself finally said enough is enough. A few months after that, his wife was pregnant, and my ex couldn’t believe it… He told her they were in a sexless marriage. Well when I talked to the wife, she was open with me that the affair blindsided her because they were still very sexually involved throughout the whole thing.

      On the other hand, my ex did everything to withhold sex because she felt she was cheating on her AP. Her words, not mine – heavy eye roll…

      Thankfully, a pregnancy did not occur even though they never used protection. He is happy living his life with his family (which I am happy for because his wife is an amazing woman and their kids deserver two parents). He is just living the life I thought I would be living now. With a wife and kids, and here I am trying to figure out if I will ever be emotionally healed to ever be in a relationship.

      Is it bitter of me to think why is his life going so well after all the shitty things he did to people?

      • Tired

        I think it would be hard not to be bitter in your situation Joey. But in some way I think your wife is getting her just desserts in that he stayed with his wife and not her. What an awful pair. Perhaps you should of married HIS wife.

      • Sarah P.

        Hi Joey,

        You are one of the good guys and you will find love again. I remember being your age, my relationship ending, and wondering if I would ever get married or have children. I wanted to be married and have children. Many women want to be married and have kids. You just need to find them.

        I do not know how much you put yourself out there on the social scene. Do you do on-line dating or speed-dating? Also, do you have a good relationship with your mom and if so, is your mom a good judge of character? If she is, be sure to introduce any new girlfriends to mom. That’s probably the quickest way to find a nice girl. And if you have a mom who is fair-minded and wants the best for you and if mom says, “Run far away from her,” believe your mom. Trust me on this. I cannot tell you how many bad marriages could have been avoided if sons listened to their Good Moms. (Not bad moms. Don’t listen to bad moms. They will just pick out someone like them. Or a bad mom will hate a good woman. So if you have abad mom and she hates your girlfriend, you probably have a good girlfriend.).

        Are you allowed to be bitter? OF COURSE!!!!!! Joey, you (and the other man’s wife) are the victims here. Victims are allowed to be bitter all they want. Victims are allowed to say, do, and think things that are normally considered ‘out of character.’ An affair is both an abnormal and highly painful situation.

        People are not going to have the restraint of the Queen of England and sit down, drink a cup of tea served in fine china, and eat a nice scone when they are going through affair recovery. Nope, they are going to be throwing the fine china against the wall, dumping the tea in Boston harbor, and putting a scone filled with laxative on the other person’s doorstep. That is “normal” affair recovery behavior. And so is bitterness. Bitterness is absolutely normal. When people say they are not bitter, I take a good look at their teeth to see evidence of grinding. If their is evidence of teeth grinding, they are bitter, but refuse to admit it to themselves because of some silly notion that victims are not allowed to be bitter.

        Joey, I am bitter on your behalf. You did not deserve this. You are one of the nice guys who actually wants to settle down and have a family. Unfortunately, you fell in love with someone who you never thought could do something as horrible as cheating on you.

        I do not understand how people who do such horrible things can (seemingly) have such good lives.

        On the other hand… people have read stories in the past of Devious Doctor and Nasty Nurse. Nasty Nurse was married, had three small children and targeted Devious Doctor who was married and had three older children. The two divorced their spouses and got married. It seemed that they were getting away with it for a while. Then there was some bad luck. Nasty Nurse got fired for NOT doing her job the entire time she worked in the organization (hint– she was too busy spouse poaching). Ex-wife of Devious Doctor, who is actually a saint, got a nice, financial settlement. In an attempt for Devious Doctor to make money back, he joined a get rich quick scheme. He put almost all that was left of his retirement in said scheme and he just announced he lost ALL OF IT. Hmmm…. Nasty Nurse was fired, Devious Doctor loses almost all of his retirement and must pay alimony to ex-wife, and Devious Doctor gets to raise three small children that are not his. Devious Doctor’s college-aged children have gone no contact. Even Devious Doctor’s church kicked him out. Additionally, Nasty Nurse is an atheist and has a problem with Devious Doctor looking for a new church. When these two got married, I believed they got away with it. But now almost a year later, things are not looking up. I am sure reality is setting in. Each one is probably looking at the other side-ways and the reality is hitting them that they each “won” a cheater. We also know that financial issues generally cause turmoil in marriage. They are now having those too. And he is asserting his right to go to church and is apparently going without her.

        Seems to me that things are starting to take a turn for the worse.

        Maybe it appears that your ex-fiancee’s other man and his family are doing well. And I am sure his wife is great– men cheat on great women all the time. But, surely the other man’s wife cannot be too happy with him behind closed doors. She has proof he is a cheater. The wife knows that even having a frequent love life with her husband did not matter. The guy is probably incapable of staying loyal. Somehow I doubt things are all sunshine and rainbows at chez cheater’s home. His wife probably keeps him on a short leash. His children have probably found out one way or another.

        And thank God for miracles that your ex did NOT get pregnant. I call that Divine Intervention.

        But, don’t lose hope, Joey. There are many great women. You need to determine what it is you want personality-wise in a woman and look for that. I understand physical attraction is always part of the deal. But look at a woman’s heart first. Don’t shut yourself out from possibilities. Just write a list of the personality qualities and VALUES you want in a person. Look for that. A woman can always lose weight, gain weight, grow long hair, color her hair, get new clothes etc. So, don’t put too much emphasis on looks since looks can be both improved and lost.

        What was the wife in this situation like? How did she react to the news? Did she confront him? How many kids did they have?

        Hope all is well,


      • HEM

        No, it’s ok to be bitter. They hurt two families and he gets to have a baby and intact marriage. While you are in limbo

    • Tired

      I feel sorry for any wife in this situation. How people manage to get through this I do not know. This is the ultimate betrayal and I don’t think I could find it in myself to accept a child born in these circumstances. I would have to leave.

      I agree with you TFW that the child should be left out of these arguments entirely. It is not their fault they were conceived by such ugly people. I really have to wonder that if a wife accepted the husband’s child if the child would not still feel it in some way? I don’t think it is possible to be so selfless that a wife could just accept this horrible insult and totally welcome this horrible reminder of the husband’s transgression.

      What an awful scenario.

      And that douche bag in the coffee shop really is something else. It is very hard to believe that anyone would put up with that either. I think the wife should leave. It sounds like she is young and would definitely have plenty of time to find someone decent.

    • Rose

      The only thing I have to add here (since I haven’t personally experienced this) is that my daughter is right now undergoing a miscarriage…she got pregnant with her IUD in place. It happens to less than 1% of IUD users but it does happen.

      • Nearly Normal

        Very sad situation. Must be hard on her, I imagine.

    • Sarah P.

      Hello All,

      Indeed it is not the child’s fault he or she was conceived in such situations. See the paragraph I wrote above the photo of the woman holding the baby. Also, note that I call doing this to a child as an evil act. Essentially someone is using an innocent human being (a child) to be no more than a human pawn to break up a marriage. I feel terrible for this child and agree the child should not be brought into the fight. I would never shame a child or be mean to a child if my H conceived a child with an OW. I was referring very specifically to a situation where the other woman shows up at the wife’s house with OW’s child in tow and attempts to agress the wife and the wife’s children. Very specific situation. And the child does not deserve to be shamed. But it is pretty audacious for the OW to show up at wife’s house without warning and agress the wife and her children. This takes away the wife and the children’s rights to know these details in a way that is not traumatic for the wife’s children or the child of the affair. What child wants to be dragged to a strangers home and shown that “daddy” has a real family and real children and that the illegitimate child we’ll never (realistically) see daddy, know daddy, or live in a nice two parent family with daddy. That is the context in which my comment was written.

      Most men never leave their first family for their second. An illigimate child will be cursed from the day he or she is born (unless he or she is adopted into a 2 parent family who were unable to have children).

      The child born from an illegitimate relationship is not to blame. I have compassion for these children and nothing angers me more than when a person gets pregnant in order to use another human being as a pawn.

      That is terrible. The child should not be the object of hatred but because of mom’s poor choices, the child will never fit in.

      My ire was directed at aggressive other women who arrives at the door and shows the wife’s children that they have a sibling they did not know about. The OW is bringing both her child and the wife’s children into a traumatic situation intentionally. It feels like a revenge tactic on the part of the OW and all children get hurt. That is the very specific situation I have a problem with. That is the situation where a woman would need to be called out for showing up hoping to get revenge.

      My only hope is that mistresses who come across this article think twice. Because in the end, her child will get hurt the most. It’s such a cruel thing to bring an innocent baby into the world as a mere pawn. And that breaks my heart. Every child is innocent and cannot help under which circumstances he or she was born. I just wish adults would be less selfish.


    • Sarah P.

      That is horrible news for your family and I am so very sorry. ????

      I hope your daughter heals quickly and I hope she has an excellent physical and emotional support system in place. I also hope your daughter can treat herself with compassion and care during this time. ???? ????


      PS- Has anyone else suffered this pain?

    • TheFirstWife

      I stand by my post.

      OW shows up with kid (other child).

      Not appropriate for the Wife to trash talk or address the situation in front of the child. The children should not be a party to those conversations. Ever!

      It is wrong. It is unChristian.

      Again – the role of all the adults – to act in the best interest of all the children. No matter what the situation is. The adults are to model the appropriate behavior at all times.

      Sorry – I call it as I see it.

    • Lou

      100% of the blame for any of It cannot be on the OW. The CS needs to own half the responsibility for the affair, birth control & 100% of the responsibility for betraying their spouse. I don’t agree with this post at all. Sure there are some women out their looking for meal tickets or targeting married men BUT men that are married should not be having affairs. Period. I know lots of cases of affairs and even in my own marriage I know my CS led the OW on. He told her lies about our marriage, led her to believe they were meant for each other – now was the OW smart for believing that? No. But they both can split that responsibility.

      The only person who has any obligation to the spouse is the married partner. Not the OW. Birth control is a two person responsibility. Men are not released from being responsible for birth control. If a child is born in an affair relationship then the CS has just as much responsibility in that as the OW does.

      When i was cheated on it was easy to blame the OW and try and relieve my spouse of his role in it but that’s not reality.

      • WifeOfOneMomOfTwo

        Lou, you are so right. Why is the BC the responsibility of the OW who did not take vows and is probably being played right alongside the wife. I’ve seen situations where the man would say he was single until he was found out months later, what about those women who were lied to? The women who were led to bed with lies of the man being single or otherwise? What does that OW do when she ends up pregnant and finds out during her pregnancy that he is married? Is it her responsibility to kill a life that has a heart beating inside her? Just curious here, if the men who were cheating had protection would that make what they were doing better? I don’t see any call for accountability for the men in this post. This is definitely a biased piece of work. How can someone who has never been the other woman, know what it is like? Or what happens in those relationships? Here is a clue, the man takes his ring off, or he’s legally separated and he goes parading around as if he is single, sometimes for years. All of a sudden he gets involved with someone new and doesn’t feel obligated to share all of his information since, its not a functioning marriage and just as they say ‘on paper’, so he says he is single to the women he meets. He meets a woman and they hit it off, for months, maybe a full year, dinners, vacations nights out, he introduces you as the love of his life or his fiancé or whatever suits him the time to gain the affection he wants and boom, one magical night your pregnant. Now, your happy because you and your love have something wonderful, and now there is a somber face on him telling you he is legally married, and that the woman is crazy and he begs you not to leave him. What do you do? Do you traumatize yourself and your body for the comfort of his lie to prove your loyalty or do you let the baby live? Maybe you even asked that you guys pay more attention to protection over the time of dating and he chose to disregard it and claims he wants to have children with you. See, a lot of times people write these articles and they just write from one vantage point, in order to give out the best information, you have to have an unbiased approach. I’ve been a wife, and been cheated on, I”ve been the girlfriend and been lied to until he had to tell the truth. And I am here to say men have to at some point be held accountable for all the big messes they make. Yes, a woman hunting and married men to poach is sick, I’ve been there. But hey, I’ve also been chased down by a man claiming he was single on our first date, only to find out, he’s separated by a random woman in a parking lot a year later. Some women are the problem, but the common denominator in the equation is all the problematic men.

    • TheFirstWife

      Lou you raise an excellent point. The Married Man (MM) is not a victim. He is responsible.

      Yes there are poachers out there. We have all seen them. They are our friends and co-workers and fellow parishioners and relatives. Even strangers.

      Just b/c a person makes advances or suggestive comments – the “target” can walk away. And decline.

      Regarding an A – it cannot happen without two consenting parties. (I am not including drunken ONS here). Specifically an A – it takes two.

      • Shifting Impressions

        I agree with TFW, you make some really good points here. Sometimes it’s easier to blame someone other than our partners but you are so right in saying that just isn’t reality.

    • Exercisegrace

      My first comment didn’t post so take 2!
      There is a huge difference between the forgiveness my faith asks of me, and the reconciliation that it does not require. Asking and receiving forgiveness for our sins, does not remove the consequences of our sin. The Bible makes the abundantly plain as well.

      I would be extremely cautious about giving a woman a window into my world, who has shown herself deranged enough to conceive a child for the sole purpose of destroying my marriage and family. My concern would be her ongoing manipulation of all involved, including the child! I couldn’t risk accusations of abuse, etc. being leveled at me or WORSE one of MY children. My first and only job is the safety and well being of my children. When dealing with an OW of this level, they are capable of anything. I have dealt with a true bunny boiler and trust me, you want to keep that kettle of crazy as far away as possible. Still, I would feel nothing but pity for the child himself. The door would be open for a relationship when s/he was 18, and able to have one independent of his/her mother.

      If the situation warranted some contact, it would come under the boundary of continued no contact with the OW herself. All communication would take place via a qualified third party. Including any drop off and pick up for any visits. But even this would be very limited.

      Sadly this is another circumstance where people outside of the situation want to throw additional burden onto the shoulders of the betrayed spouse. Think of the child, they plead! He’s so innocent! Well, yes he is. But he isn’t my concern. His mother must shoulder the consequences of her own actions, and offer whatever explanations she has to her child as to why that child is growing up without a father. My husbands OW always insisted on providing the condoms. I asked him if it ever occurred to him that she might have been tampering with them. Nope. It did not. Absolutely 100% he shouldn’t have been sexually involved with her. But unless a man just doesn’t use any protection at all, I don’t think he is obligated beyond whatever financial support is legally required. Thankfully we dodged that particular bullet!

      • Sarah P

        Hi ExerciseGrace,

        As I recall, you were aggressed by the other woman and if I recall correctly you incurred some very real health issues because of your husband’s affair. I still want to email you about that. I have some questions that should be taken off-line. Let me know if I am able to email you privately.

        Caveat: Nothing said in emails is used for the blog UNLESS someone gives me a story they ask me to tell. So far, I have only used one and it was in the post about sexual addiction. That person was not a reader of the blog. Then, I told my observations of the situation and not the person’s words, even though I had been given permission.

        I agree with everything you have said in your comments. Unfortunately, I was also aggressed by the other woman and she did not stop until she got my life.

        I heard from neutral third parties that it had become her obsession over a period of months and that she started it. He did not even know who she was until she picked him out of a crowd, asked someone if he was taken, and when she learned he was taken and had a new home in one of the most expensive zip codes in the country, she announced she would take my life. Literally. And she did.

        The people who witnessed it assumed she was drunk and talking due to an altered state. They apologized for not telling me (until after the poach) because what they heard her say she was planning to do was so outrageous, they dismissed it. (They were all also Christians and she was allegedly one too. And so was my ex.) They could not conceive why someone would announce she got off on destroying the lives of other females and that he and I were her new target. If I had been in the situation of the witnesses, I would have assumed she was really drunk and saying things she would never do. Because who announces those things to large groups? She did.

        And she did take my life (that former life) and got to live in my house until it sold, which happened over a 2 year period. As a parting gift, I got stage one cervical cancer. I had seen the same MD for years and was always getting STI checks because it was what I did. It had become a habit. The MD was able to look through my records and say with 99% certainty, it was passed along to me due to the affair. The operation that I had to have endangered my ability to have children. Luckily, through a lot of prayer, I was able to heal and have them.

        Here is the thing, I never treated her as she treated me. I have a “no revenge” policy on how I conduct my life.

        I sent all communications through an attorney and kept it focused solely on the details of selling a mutually owned home where I had contributed more to the down payment and where I was first on the title.

        You are absolutely correct in your views about bringing someone else’s child into your home. It could be the Christian thing to do, but in these situations you are probably not dealing with someone who is a Christian. That person would probably use that child to infiltrate and destroy your marriage even if you as a person did the so-called right thing.

        While a person can be Christian (or Jewish) it does not obligate them to put themselves in situations where they know it would be an un-wise decision. There is nothing in the Torah or the Bible that indicates a person must put themselves into a ‘den of thieves,’ so to speak. (At least in this sense.)

        Another thing is that even though Christianity uses the Old Testament as part of the Bible, it was written within a Jewish context and that context was guided by Jewish law. I started studying Judaism 10 years ago when ‘the family secret’ came out. That is, I am actually fully Jewish on my mom’s side and a descendent of many well-known rabbis. The family secret came out after I had a DNA test. It was a good thing I had been married to a Jew for 6 years before I knew this. He does not study Judaism, but I have taken to reading their very long interpretations of the Old Testament.

        I would recommend any Christian to study Jewish interpretations– not because you want to become Jewish, but because it will provide food for thought on the verses in the Old Testament. It is very interesting if anyone likes to study the Bible and its interpretations in general.

        There is a reason why I wrote that prior paragraph. Judaism has a very different opinion on how children of affairs should be treated. In the past, when a child born to a Jewish woman was a product of an extramarital affair, it was given the label “mamzer” and a stigma was put on the entire family for the end of time. (Quite literally). The child was recognized as unholy and this thought continued for many centuries. Thankfully, these old customs have gone away since the child of these relationships did not choose to be born into such a situation.

        Still, I was surprised to hear this custom sometimes continues to this day. I am copying and pasting part of an article from the New York Jewish Week. Note, I am NOT the Sarah they speak of. They changed the woman’s name to Sarah for identity protection:

        “He was an acquaintance, someone Sarah* had known for years, so she didn’t worry when she found herself alone with him one wintery day. She discovered she was pregnant soon after he raped her. In her thirties, childless and aching to be a mother, she decided to raise this unexpected baby on her own.

        Back then Sarah, who had divorced a few years earlier in a U.S. civil court, had no idea that her child could be considered a “mamzer” – the closest thing Judaism has to a bastard or an untouchable – not because her child was conceived during a rape, but because, according to Jewish law, Sarah had been married when she was raped.

        A mamzer is a Jew born from an incestuous relationship or a relationship between a married Jewish woman and a Jewish man who isn’t her husband.

        According to Jewish law, a mamzer can only marry another mamzer or a convert. “Mamzerut” – mamzer status – is inherited, so all descendants of a mamzer will be a mamzer, till the end of time.”

        OUCH. In the past, these children born into Jewish families were reminded everyday of their lives of their “unholy” status and so was the family where these things occurred. The family was cursed forevermore. That is quite a burden to bear and the Jews I know threw away this custom long ago.

        But, I really wanted to speak to the cultural differences between how Christians view children born of affairs versus how (a small percentage) of Jews still view children born of affairs. I have intuited that we have a lot of Christian readers and I think it is interesting to discuss the way Christians handle this issue versus Jews. (After all, we are joined by the Old Testament and Jesus was a Jew.)

        But, before I go, I will say one thing about how some other women aggress wives. There was a woman who was sitting in her house on a Saturday night with her tween. Husband was working late. She suspected husband was having an affair, but was not ready to face that fact and did not tell her child. She told her female family members to be on prayer alert and they were. She sensed an affair and sensed she was in danger and asked for prayer. Soon, husband came home high on a drug that made him aggressive and holding a loaded gun. A very calculated and collected woman, his lover, (who was not drunk or high) was right behind him suggesting that they could be together if he killed his wife and child. Luckily, wife and child made it out alive and I have no doubt in my mind it was Divine Intervention. That is all I am willing to say about this true story. Affairs are ugly and very few people will tell exactly how ugly because they are afraid of being judged. Even I have never told how ugly my situation was. Also, let’s not forget Mary Jo Buttafuoco. She had to live it and was not lucky enough to escape the gun. It will be a memory she never forgets.


    • TheFirstWife

      I think my position needs clarification. In response to the child of the A and the OW appearing at the doorstep of the BS – that is my very specific focus that such a scenario – with a child being present – is not the time to be venting your feelings towards the OW.

      In that scenario – as presented in Sarah P.’s article – I take the position that the adults need to take the lead and behave respectfully in front of the child.

      It is the responsibility of the parents to not name call or disrespect each other in front of the child.

      My position – to make sure I am not being unclear or ambiguous – had nothing to do with the BS taking any responsibility for the OC.

      The BS (in my opinion) is only responsible for behaving respectfully and responsibly towards the OW in front of the child.

      Please re-read the post starting at the point where the OW has introduced the OC to the children of the BS. The next paragraph is what I am very specifically referring to.

      In no way do I assert any opinion on what the BS should do in terms of accepting responsibility for the OC.

      IMO no one should be using words like “whore” in front of any child.

      Children should not be dragged into adult issues.

    • Exercisegrace

      TFW, my comment was not in response to yours in any way, and was not written as a criticism of how you feel things should be handled. I was simply addressing the issue in general. What my own feelings would be if a child had resulted from my husbands affair. I hope you don’t think I am saying that you are “wrong”. I’m sorry if my post seemed like it was directed at yours, or was directed at yours.

      I agree that adults should conduct themselves in a dignified manner in front of kids. I hope if I was placed in such a horrible, situation that I would be able to conduct myself in a manner aligned with my beliefs. But when it comes to the trauma of an affair, sometimes we react in ways we aren’t proud of. The betrayed spouse has my sympathy in this situation. The OW was going (in my opinion) for a scorched earth/shock and awe-style attack. If she had been conducting herself as a reasonable adult would, she NEVER would have delivered this horrible news without warning and in the presence of the children. Personally I believe the best thing the wife could have done would have been to shut the door in her face, and refused any contact until the husband and wife could discuss the situation with their attorney. It’s probably best to not not react too negatively OR too positively in the heat of the moment and make statements that could come back to bite you.

      Sadly, sometimes children get dragged into these situations against their (and our!) will. My husbands OW decided to reveal vulgar and graphic details of her sexual relationship with my husband, to my 15 year old daughter via social media. Thankfully my 12 year old son didn’t see, but she intended him to do so. My older two WERE stalked and harassed, we received anonymous death threats (among other threats) phoned at all hours of the day and night. The OW created fake social media profiles and infiltrated private church youth group and school pages so she could keep tabs on where the older two were. We had to alert their schools of a potential threat. We had to explain to our kids what was going on. I could go on and on about what my husbands bad choices subjected me and the kids to. Six years after d-day, random things still happen. I explain all this to simply say, sometimes it isn’t as easy as believing we should respect each other and sometimes kids are safer knowing the full reality.

    • TheFirstWife

      EG. I remember reading details of your story and the ensuing nightmare. I feel terribly that things continue to occur so many years later.

      Fortunately your children are st an age they can understand things. They are not 2 or 3 yo – who don’t have the capacity to understand what is going on.

      Obviously the OW is mentally unstable and could have been the lead in Fatal Attraction based on her harassment of you and your family.

      It’s too bad you have not been able to have her arrested for stalking or some other charge.

      I know of another family being harassed by the BS – a make – whose W had an A and after it ended she went off the deep end and ended up in jail. The BH is now harassing the man (and family) of the guy his wife had an A with.

      Interfering with the former CH’s business, emailing his clients and causing the former CH to lose business. He is in revenge mode to destroy this man. No matter what.

      I hope the stalking of you & family stops for good. No one should have to live like that. I would have thought by now the crazy AP in your case would have moved on.

      So sorry for you.

    • Sarah P.

      Hi ExerciseGrace, I got this comment from you in my email– is it the one that went missing?

      “Sarah, very good article! Sometimes I think our society confuses two concepts: forgiveness and reconciliation. As a Christian, my faith asks me to forgive those who have hurt me. It does not however, require me to reconcile with them. Further, even once a person has sincerely repented and been forgiven of their sins, they are not free from the consequences of their sinful choices.

      In many (if not most) cases, the OW has ZERO remorse for her actions. I think that is why we betrayed spouses often have such anger directed toward her. Our husbands have demonstrated their remorse through words and actions. The OW often has done the exact opposite. In our case, she went full bunny boiler, stalked, harassed and phoned anonymous death threats (among many other things).

      As much pity as I would feel for a child cold-heartedly conceived as a weapon of destruction against my marriage and my children, I would not necessarily feel obligated to bring this child into our home and family. It’s highly doubtful that the OW would have a sudden change of heart, and there is NO way I would give her an open channel into our home. The child would almost certainly be used by her to seek any and all information she could use against us. What a nightmare if she chose to make accusations of child abuse against you, and manipulated her child to falsely accuse you? Or worse! Accuse one of your older children! As a betrayed spouse, my only responsibility would be to protect my own children from harm. Remember, the OW has likely already been told what sub-par wives and mothers we are. They have shown who they are and what levels they are willing to sink down to in order to get what they want. Believe them.

      If I felt the situation warranted more involvement, I would only agree if there was absolutely no direct contact with the OW. A third party social worker would be hired to facilitate contact and to pick up and drop off the child. The OW would not be given a chance to manipulate emotions by using her child as a pawn. This is not on me, as the betrayed wife. Again, as sorry as I would feel for the child, it is his or her own mother that chose the circumstances of the birth. Yes, both parties are responsible for birth control. But I have read blogs where condoms were sabotaged and even dug out of the trash and used to impregnate the OW. Crazy! But it happens.

      I am thankful beyond words we never had to deal with this. My husband said the OW always brought the condoms and in fact insisted on it. I asked him if it EVER crossed his mind that she might be poking holes in them or something and he looked horrified. Nope never occurred to him. They truly are idiots when they are having an affair.”


    • Sarah P.

      Hello to Those Who Are in this Situation,

      For those of you who are going through this very frightening situation as we speak, was this article helpful for you? Did it clear up the questions you have or is there anything else you need to know about your situation? Please understand that you have rights and you have a voice. I pray that you find peace and solace and that your wayward spouse is willing to understand what he has done to harm your family. I pray that your spouse is able to reconcile with you and move forward as best as you can as a family. I know this is something you have never wanted to deal with– none of us do — and I know this is a difficult time for you. I hope you are able to surround yourself with supportive people who can help you keep on an even keel despite the drama your spouse has visited upon your family. Please let me know if I can help if anything else comes up.

      Many Blessings,

    • Gina

      Hello All,
      Unfortunately I am in this situation. Thank You so much for speaking about this situation with compassion and humor. I have to laugh or check myself into the mental hospital.
      This year will be my 12th wedding anniversary, we have been together 21 years. My husband helped me raise my 2 children from my first marriage since my son was 6 months old. He is 22 now and my daughter is 25. I thanked God everyday for him. We are 10 years apart, with him being younger. I wanted a child with him and he did not want children, he loved mine. Now they won’t speak to him.
      When the kids were teenagers they got into trouble and my H seemed to be going though stuff of his own, but not sharing his feelings. I dove into the kids so that I would not loose them to drugs. My H dove into a coworkers crazy life. Her H abused her and my H was a knight in shining armor. All I know is that they have known each other since 2012, my H stopped sleeping with me in 2014 when my son graduated high school and left the house. I thought that he was having empty nest syndrome, but he announced he wanted a child and wasn’t sure he wanted to be married anymore…I was 48. I knew that my chances were slim to conceive, I was angry and hurt. I think that this was the time that he was falling for her. To top it off my daughter turned up preg with a man that abused her and that’s when everything fell apart even further. We slept in the same room but never were intimate, I knew something was up, but he would not talk.
      I found out about the baby before I knew that he was involved in a physical affair. I found out though an email about how baby bear misses his daddy, that was the day after Mothers Day 2016…..he lied to me and said that he decided to be a sperm donor to a woman at work who was married..she was now divorced and he decided to be in the kids life, he was 8 months old..I told him that I would like to be also, lets raise him together…I believed it for a day…even sat the kids down and told them that story, they didn’t believe him either, but we all lead him to believe that we did.
      The week after I found out I asked to see a picture…he was beautiful. Then without her knowing he brought him to me. That was May 2016. It wasn’t until Aug 2016 that I met with her to get the story. Found out baby was conceived the old fashioned way and they were in love. Then she said that she was done with him because he wouldn’t leave me. She lied to her entire family, told them he was divorced. We cried together and I told her to please respect my marriage now and let him go…..Its now June 2018 and she is still trying..my H is in therapy and we all go to the same person. I had him go to a session with her because they were not communicating, that’s when she told him that she didn’t have this child for him and I and that anyone else would have been gone by now. I realized that she did this on purpose and he was too stupid to see it. Even now he still cannot totally let her go. We had to sell our beautiful home because of child support and now we live apart but in the same complex.
      Since the day that I met his son, he was my son also. He will be 3 in Sept and he adores me. OW is angry that her son has a relationship with me, she hears about me almost everyday.
      I believe that he is slowly letting her go and grieving the fact that the white picket fence will not be built with her. We are now spending most weekends together and giving his son the family time that he deserves. She keeps using baby to manipulate, cause guilt and shame. On wed night he told me that he still wants her but he knows the best thing for his son is him and I, then on thurs night she told him that she bought a townhouse and its closing next week. I’m sure he is devastated since he lost his home, his kids, and the respect of his family and coworkers. He now feels betrayed again, the first time was last year when she began to date and sleep with other men cause he wouldn’t file for divorce. Why would he still want her? The guilt I believe causes him to not want to see her for who she really is because then he could not justify to himself what he did. There is no describing the pain that I feel sometimes, but I have come so far, why would I stop now? God has been there for me, he is why I stand.
      I hope to reconcile with my H, he is the greatest love I have ever known and the worst pain, but I cannot wait forever. I live my life and look forward to the times together. I use the pain to grow and am reflecting on my part in the demise of the marriage so I won’t make the same mistakes. We still do not sleep together, we only hug when we part.
      These women are victims and they get lost in the idea that they deserve a good man no matter who he belongs to. She has caused so much devastation in my life. My only wish is that she starts dating again and meets the man of her dreams. When we met she even said that the baby was her idea, she knew he wanted one. I looked at her and thought, damn, you saw a way to get him to leave and you took it. You just didn’t realize how strong and in love I was with my H. I really don’t think they were sleeping together too long before she got preg, maybe 6 months. All I know is that she uses baby to cause guilt so he cannot move on with me. He feels a responsibility to her…I hope now he sees that she just wanted money and control. She never loved him, only the idea of him. She doesn’t even know my H, only the parts that he wanted her to see. She says that she is jealous of me. Why? Cause not only do I have the man you wanted but I have your son also? Karma is a bitch.
      Would love to hear other stories, it makes us stronger.

    • Tired

      Hi Gina. I really feel for you because I found myself in a similar situation. My husband also said he didn’t want children. Then the other woman came along and all of a sudden he did. The first I heard of it was when I caught him out in an affair and all of a sudden he started saying he wanted children. I am glad I caught him when I did because I think the other woman had a similar plan to your other woman. But it was exposed before she could put it into action. The relationship never quite got off the ground and we stayed together. She had worked on him for months before my husband even realised it was becoming inappropriate…pretending to be his ‘friend’ and advising him about our fertility problems. But it was all an act to wheedle her way in. She thought SHE would solve this problem by having his child! What a thoughtful ‘friend’ she was!

      I think it is amazing that you have accepted the child and made him a part of your family. I do not think I could do this. This must be very hard on you. I can just imagine how manipulative the other woman is, hoping your husband will leave you to be with her. I don’t know how a woman can be so cruel to destroy someone else’s happiness and life for their own selfishness. There are so many men in the world, why do they have to choose someone who is married to someone else? I suspect it is not because they are victims, but because they are desperate. How old is the other woman? Ours was mid thirties and of a culture that expects women to marry before they are thirty. I think she went after my husband because he was unhappy in his job, weak and vulnerable and thought it was much easier for her to poach him than to find a single man of her own.

      When our other woman did meet someone else, after pursuing my husband for months after he ended their ‘friendship,’ she was off with the new man very, very quickly and got pregnant almost immediately. Everyone thinks she tricked him into it. I just hope this man was single and not another married one. It really seems like she didn’t care who the man was as long as she got a baby. Her doing this really made my husband see what a manipulative liar she is. Maybe you could feel sorry for them that they are so desperate, but it is just such an evil way to try to get a man. I can have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

      Your other woman probably thought getting pregnant would seal the deal, she probably didn’t expect to end up as a single mother. No wonder she is jealous. I hope she does meet someone else too, so at least you won’t have to worry about this any longer. It must be so emotionally taxing. Your husband has stayed with you though, and your accepting his child so graciously would really make him see who the better person is. But he is very cruel to be telling you he is in love with her and that he wants her.

      I hope things work out for you.

      • Gina

        Ha, your name is how I feel!!
        It is not cruel that he tells me that he loves her, I am being a safe place and listening to his heart. I know that those are just feelings because she spit his child out and he lives in a fantasy wanting the family life he never had as a child. He realizes that nothing is perfect and he struggles with letting that go. We have always been best friends and I see this as a healing and rebuilding process.
        I am 10 years older than he is, and she is 8 or 9 years younger than him. She is around 34, too old to be doing something like this I would think….mentally more like 16, but hell they both are. When I met with her I asked her to respect my marriage, 2 weeks later she was back in full force. She is evil.
        I have to let go of the past and rebuild. I let a little bit more go everyday and every time I get to talk about it to people that understand it heals me. He cannot do this for me in this capacity, he cannot process strong emotions coming from me right now. So thank you for your time and thoughts. I feel listened to and validated.
        I am sitting here outside my apt as I write this….so this happened right now….my H just came walking up with a bday card and present. I am taken by surprise. Its things like this that tell me what I am doing is right. God is good.
        I wish my H had the strength to end things with her, he just avoids her, not really telling her anything. Just saying he needs time and she is free to move on with her life.
        When she did date last year he was angry, jealous, torn….the person he gave up everything for just gut punched him cause her needs were more important. Hopefully he saw how selfish she is. She shows it again and again.
        What I show is that I am a child of God and that I follow his plan. It is a balancing act to give selflessly and not be a doormat. I know that I am showing strength, what is written in this card tells me so.

        • Tired

          Hi Gina. Yeah, that’s why I used that name. I think nowadays I should change it to Ultra Tired. I’m sick of the whole business.

          Nobody who was a decent person would do what this woman has done to you and your life. When you say you hope your husband would ‘end things with her’ do you mean they are still having an affair or do you just mean you hope he would come to closure about it?

          I’m glad you said that about the therapist. I was wondering how you could all see the same person and have that work out. What if they mix up all the details and spill things you have said in confidence? I’m sure therapists are more professional than that, but I wouldn’t want to be seeing the same person my husband and the other woman were both seeing! It does sound like yours is taking sides. I hope your husband will stop seeing her as well.

          I suppose if the boy is almost 3 you have had some time to process all your feelings about it all. I am still amazed that you have been able to accept this so graciously. I don’t think I could do so.

          Happy birthday Gina. Hugs

          • Gina

            Hi Ultra Tired,
            no they haven’t been physically together for 2 years. He has honored my boundries and has not spent time with her and has been trying to emotionally cut himself off from her. He is being transparent and treating me good. He has not told her that there is not a future for them, because he doesn’t know for sure that’s what he wants. They are both selfish. He is emotionally immature and she uses the baby to manipulate him. He needs to grow some and stand up to her. I can’t do it for him, he has to find his voice. If he doesn’t he will loose me. We have such a great time together, but he tells me he sees me as a friend only…ouch. Because of his immaturity I think he is waiting for the butterflies to return. I admit, I miss them too, but I would much rather have a mature responsible man next to me then someone addicted to puppy love. I told him he will never feel anything for me unless he lets her totally go. From his actions I believe that is what he is trying to do, but he needs to do it in his own time so he cant say he was forced into anything. Our lease is over dec 1, so by Oct 1 he needs to decide to try us again or not. I don’t want to give him a time limit, but he is too comfortable and needs to shit or get off the pot.
            I am adopted and have issues with rejection and abandonment….I did not want this little boy to feel that. I didn’t want him to suffer because of the stupidity of his mother and father. He is a beautiful soul. I do not see or think of his mom when he is with me. He is here for a reason. He has taught me unconditional love, he changed me. Loving him is loving the rejected part of me.
            I agreed to see the same therapist because I wanted her to hear all sides from us directly. I wanted her to know what was really going on between my H and I and not from the OWs side. I believe that it was a good thing, but she is too much like the OW so we both stopped seeing her. He needs some time to think and reflect. I wish I knew someone that he could relate to. What therapist wouldn’t just tell me to run away? Who has been in this situation and can talk to my husband about what he is feeling? I found one group, Marriage Helper, and they helped me a bunch, but the plan is to totally cut off the OW…we can’t do that. So my H has to find the strength and balls to keep her in her place, talk about the child only and cut off emotional/personal communication. I need someone that can help with that when he gets weak.

            • Tired

              Your husband is telling you that he sees ‘you as a friend?’ How long are you going to live in limbo? This man probably hasn’t been celibate for 2 years. If it is not with you or her, it is with someone else. He is a man. It sounds to me like he is sitting on the fence. And playing you for a fool. Trying to get the best of both worlds. You play the mother, she plays the excitement. Gives him sex, and the child binds both of you to him. He is pitting you both against each other in a contest where only he can win. HIM! …he will get one of you. Nothing to lose there, If you want to win you need to stop allowing him to do this. But I’m not sure what prize you will win in the end. No one wants the booby prize. I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but I think it is true.

            • Gina

              thank you for wanting to protect me…my H did not go after sex, if he did he wouldn’t be so stuck in emotion he would just be on to the next. My H is very emotional and it drives every part of him, especially his sex drive.
              It would be very easy for me to take what you said and project it onto him, but I won’t. I know him, he didn’t have sex with her right away and he didn’t have sex with both of us at the same time. He followed the feelings that he thought she was making him feel and she went for it. The last time they were together july 2016 was the the first time in months before that. They never went anywhere together, he always came home. She was a temporary escape. I told him to go live with her and he didn’t. When you give someone permission to be with their lover, the wanting/excitement dies.
              Limbo is hard, I am using the time to better myself and be a better person. In doing that I am seeing if I really want this relationship to continue. But the more we talk and spend time together, the more we align. I don’t want him to rush back if he is just going to do this again, I want him to be sure that he knows who he is and makes the choice to be with me. He has done so much to cause me to build trust. When we sold the house in Dec and moved apart, I told him that he had a year to find himself and decide what he wants. So there is an end. When something takes awhile to build (their relationship) it will take awhile to let it go. We have been together 22 years so it would take forever to let us go.
              If I even had a feeling that he was with someone else I would have filed.

            • Sarah P

              HI Gina,

              I just read this comment after the one I posted about unconditional love. I am so glad you have set the right boundaries and have given him a date where he needs to find out what he wants.

              It is so true that if you give a spouse permission to move in with their lover, that usually causes the lover to lose their ‘specialness.’ If a H moves in, he will see that his lover also has metaphorical and literal dirty laundry, dishes in the sink, bad hair days, and a face without make-up and fancy hair in the morning.

              You are handling this the right way. I just wanted to reiterate that as a daughter of God, you have infinite worth and no experience in this mortal realm can take away your God-given worth.


              PS- This is a little off-topic, but I wanted to show the women and the men here reading that the “other woman” is not some fantasy lady. Most times (especially if a man meets an affair partner at work) they see only the best of that person. They are dressed well and (generally) well behaved. They appear to look more like a mythical Goddess than a very human wife they come home to. But, that is because of the CONTEXT and even more true if the OW uses insane amounts of make-up, false eye lashes, and hair extensions. Here is a youtube video by a famous make-up artist. You all need to watch it because what this woman can do with make-up is nothing short of miraculous. If the ‘other woman’ is excellent at applying make up and wearing the right clothes, she creates a perfect illusion. But, if a husband marries an OW like this, one day the make-up will come off and the man will be shocked. Check the video to see what I am talking about. Anytime I watch this woman’s videos my jaw is in the floor. Literally. Kandee does a make-over for someone going through a hard break up. I love Kandee because even though she does make-up, she is positive and empowering to women. Love it.


            • Gina

              Yes peoples jaws drop when I tell them that, but it is a fact. Affairs always end unless they are so co dependent and full of shame that they stay to prove a point, but they are miserable. She is surely showing her true colors now. He realizes she had the baby to manipulate him and get me to leave. She is now keeping the baby from him….I have an event (Kyle Cease, hes fantastic) in Calif and asked my H if he wanted to ride along and visit his Dad with his son while i’m at the event. All was worked out until she heard that I was going, then she flipped and said that her son was not going on a family vacation!! Well sorry sweetheart, we have already done that a few times. Then she took the baby fri night crying that she didn’t spend anytime with him, when she dropped him sat night she told my H how he is grumpy and Grandma said he didn’t go down for a nap till…..wait….WHAT?? He was livid, and this HAS to keep happening for him to fully SEE her…and he knows it.
              He says that she wants everything I have, she wants to be me. Then he said that she will never be me, EVER.
              So yes, we are in limbo, but he is continuing to move forward. He is working on himself. He is not having sex with anyone, He is being transparent and being truthful when questions are asked. I cannot go for a post nup because this will say “I don’t trust you” and will push him away. I don’t trust him, I trust that God is now guilding him to do whats right.
              I was raised Catholic, but stopped going when I thought I had my life under control. (boy was I wrong) I also believe that most religions are the same. They all have a “God” “Higher Being” and the main message is love. My God doesn’t give you anything you can’t handle, but when you are in a season that you cannot understand or that brings pain, that is your chance to move closer to Him and surrender. I now listen to Pastor Furtick and my H started listening about a year ago also. He has helped us so much. If anyone is interested start with “It had to happen” find him on youtube.
              So we are on a journey, apart, but also together. I stand back and watch my H loose everything and be in pain, I just listen. When I’m quiet and listen the response voice he hears is God. I cannot protect, I can only support or he will never learn the lesson. I want to ring his neck….he is a man, he has no logical brain. He always goes the long way around, I want the shortcut. So I accept that this is the way he is, its the way he learns. He has to keep feeling the pain of what he did in order to see that it was wrong even though it resulted in a son.
              As for going after the baby, there is no court that would take him away. If we said that she is unfit, the baby could go to her sisters or mother and that would be worse. He is not in any physical danger and when with us we love, love, love him. Let her dig her own grave, we will gladly take him when she finds some one else to screw.
              All this and I have kids too, 25 and 22, that now hate him. Fathers Day was fun but bittersweet. I didn’t mention them, but I know it hurt. He loved them, provided for them, gave them everything and the only thing they see is all the wrong. One day, when he decides to work on the marriage we will approach that battle. We will have to be strong, there is too much pain.
              I will surely watch those videos, was never much into makeup but it cant hurt since she is almost 20 years younger then me. The good thing is my H is 10 years younger than me but can see her immaturity now. She is a selfish, crazy bitch.

    • Tired

      Sarah, your article was hilarious, but true. Of course it is a tactic…unless the affair partner is a silly teenager! I think most women know that getting pregnant is not a good idea unless it is a stable relationship! But these women think: “Hey, I don’t have a stable relationship. I’ll get pregnant and then he will stay with me.” Wrong on so many levels. One, if you love someone you have enough respect not to push them into commitment. Two, if you have to force someone into a relationship, is it really a relationship?? This is terrible. If you love someone you will not put them in a situation they do not want. I knew I was older than my husband. He told me he did not want children. I could have got pregnant to force him to stay with me when I was a bit younger, but I had respect for him as a person and I did not do that. I thought that doing this was wrong. It seems I may suffer for this now. It is like it has been all thrown back in my face, now that a pregnancy is unlikely.

      I have no respect for the type of woman who does this. I don’t know how any cheating man who is involved with someone who does this can have either. Can’t they see they are being taken for a fool?! But it seems men’s brain is wired to their penis. They think with the little head. Hoping to make it bigger I suppose. They all seem to think that the bigger the penis, the happier their woman will be, when all we want is loyalty and love. I hope I am not offending any men out there. I am talking specifically about cheating men. The loyal and faithful man will be the one who has the most adoration and love from their wife.

    • Sarah P.

      Hello Tired,
      First off, thank goodness you laughed. The post had many satirical elements and it occurred to me today that I should probably highlight all content that is satirical versus my real content.

      People who have known me in person always brought me to parties to be the impromptu stand up comedian. No one had to drink to laugh and so they had an even more hilarious time when they were drinking. I do not drink, by the way. I just have a mind that spends all day filtering real life through the lens of satire. In person all these over-the-top things are said in gest and my friends laugh because they know I can say things in gest things I would NEVER actually do in real life. That’s part of the humor. I am a mom who writes/works from home and the way I show up in real life (which is generally conservative and thoughtful) makes people laugh more when the satirical observations start to fly. The way I show up doesn’t necessarily match my humor and that makes it funnier to people. They expect one thing to come out of my mouth and get another. A long time ago I had this experience at work after the break up with my ex. One of the people who reported to me ask me to attend a Garden Party at her house with others. When I arrived I realized it was a different kind of garden party. She opened the door and I saw about 40 coworkers smoking things from the garden. They looked up at me standing there and their faces were a mix of frightened, deer in the headlights, and shocked. And that was hilarious to me. (They assumed someone who looked and acted like me at work would call the police.) The woman announced, “I know she looks quiet and conservative but she is cool.” I did not smoke but I did entertain all 40 of them with imitation voices of the South Park characters Eric Cartman and his mom. I could and can imitate both voices and started talking about bad Mr. Kitty who was trying to eat the cheezie poofs and how Eric was telling his mom stories about Mr. Kitty and his mom’s reaction to Mr. Kitty’s said abilities. During that party people were shocked and in awe because they had only seen me at work where I kept it dead serious all the time. They all came up to me at work later and said they had NO idea I could imitate all kinds of voices and create satire on the fly. They were like, “you are always so serious and all about business. We had no idea!”

      So, when people know me and hear it, they chuckle and realize I am not being serious. I am making a satirical comment that hopefully makes the flaws in human nature look funny.

      Unfortunately more satire comes out in these posts than I intend. But I have always seen life through a satirical lens. It has been part of my personality since I was a little kid. I was born satirical. (Note: sarcasm and satire are two different things. Occasionally I am sarcastic, but 95% of the time, I am writing satire and not sarcasm.)

      And when I am talking about dead serious topics like infidelity, my inclination is to write satire to give people something to laugh at so they do not cry. These posts are a mix of dead serious and satire and I jump back and forth between the two so often that I probably come off as cynical or unkind. It is never my intent. I am trying to find humor is these crazy situations so that readers can (hopefully) laugh.

      But about your situation, that seriously makes me angry. There is more than one man who has done that “I don’t want kids” bait and switch until the wife is almost too old to conceive. Note, I am not referring to readers or people who have emailed me. I am referring to observations I have made over the years involving acquaintances and also referring to all the conversations my parents had in front of me when I was growing up. They never filtered anything. They spoke very matter of factly about why a friend of theirs was at the house crying. I would ask and they would tell me. Most of my content comes from those long-gone aquatintances of my parents, things I have over heard while working from a coffee shop, or things that are completely open information, or things from college, or from some of the other comments I read on message boards. But a lot of it also comes from people I don’t know. I will be standing in a grocery line and a stranger will tap me on the shoulder and tell me their whole life story. Or I will be in the bank line and tell me about their terrible divorce. I cannot tell you how shocked my husband is when he sees this. After they leave he will say he was unaware I was friends with that person and wow they were dealing with difficult experiences. And I will say it’s the first time I have ever met them. They started talking to me. It doesn’t matter if I am in Europe or the United States or anywhere. People approach me and tell me their life story. I have no idea who they are but remember tid bits and share those tid bits if they are relevant. I have thousands of life stories accumulated just from going out in public. No joke. I need to say these things because if something remotely related to anyone I am speaking with privately appears to be about them, I assure it’s not. You see, humanity has a big problem. That big problem is called “human nature.” Because human nature is so very human the very same story could be happening to thousands of people at the same time and all of them could be different nationalities. I have spent time in 23 countries because I was looking for a place that did not have the issue called “human nature.” And yet, I found it again wherever I went even if the culture was radically different. Even if we look different on the outside in terms of purely objective physical traits, I will say we are all the same on the inside both literally and metaphorically. If anyone has watched a surgery on YouTube you will know what I mean. Inside we all have the same organs and they are some shade of pink depending on the blood flow accessing an organ or not. But inside we have mental traits that recur repeatedly. These traits cross all cultural boundaries. I like to remind people of that because there are days I will hear an identical story from three different people in my own personal life, in the coffee shop, or wherever. Why? Because people all have the same problems. Maybe the ages, names, and the cultures change, but we all have the same problems. I just felt that was important to state. I don’t need to use confidential information to create posts. I have enough non-confidential material to last several lifetimes. And the most ironic thing is that all these Devious Doctors and Nasty Nurses I mention create their own gossip chain. They tell everyone who will listen about why they had to divorce wife and kids to go with Nasty Nurse. They even do it within the patient areas. It is shocking to me. No one has to gossip about them because they gossip constantly about what they did to the family they left and try to frame it as a good thing. They seriously have these 20 minute monologues they will start in front of patients and strangers about their affair. I don’t know if this is the affect social media has had on society or what because these people WANT others to hear all the gory details. I am seriously puzzled by this phenomenon. Affairs in themselves are outrageous and then the person who left their family for their (fake) soulmate has to tell complete strangers all the gory details. It is light the Twilight Zone or something. There was this thing called “shame” that used to exist. Normal people still have it but I have met an inordinate amount of wayward spouses who don’t have shame. Even worse they scream their self righteous affair stories to anyone in a 30 mile radius.

      Tired, you said your husband was a doctor, right? If so, does the same thing go on in your area or is this a reflection of the mega, ultra liberal state I live in?

      Tired, how are you feeling these days about you and your husband. Any progress to report? I sure hope so!!!

      And of course you can talk about penises since they are generally part of the equation. LOL. If we are on this website, I am pretty sure someone has one or has experienced one due to their male spouse.

      My dad says cheating men have a “case of testosterone poisoning.” And that is probably where I get my sense of humor. My dad is also big on cultural satire and pointing out irony.

      And you are right that we women only want to find a man who loves us and is loyal to us. Once women reach a certain age OR number of partners, it is definitely not about what is in the pants — unless we are referring to wallets. Women want a loyal man who loves them and when they reach a certain age they also hope NOT to spend retirement homeless. Seriously.

      Let us know how things are going. Is “La Skank” moving on to another sucker?


      • Tired

        You are very funny. I love your comment allowing me to discuss penises. But I just think men way over-rate this. It is more their competition against other men. Women don’t care about the size, if it is banana shaped, or whatever. Testosterone poisoning! Hilarious.

        Yes, he is a doctor but no, I can’t say that I have experienced this behaviour amongst our work colleagues, but then we are both pretty reserved and neither of us are the type of people anyone would say that in front of. Like people think of you, they would think that we’re too serious. Not true, but yeah, we look like that. What we hear is mainly gossip about other people. So I don’t know if it is the ultra liberal place you live in. I personally feel that anyone who goes on like that in front of work colleagues is doing their professional reputation a lot of harm!

        I have thought about our marriage a lot. I think that he is really genuine in that he has no intention of doing such a thing again. He just does not want to be reminded of the things that he did because he is ashamed of it. It is frustrating for me because it has taken so long to drag all these things out of him. But that knowledge was imperative for me to be able to risk being hurt like that again. And I needed independent evidence that would back up what he said. And what I found out was that she was pursuing him, and that he has not contacted her pretty much since when he said he last did. With him being silent, I could not know that for sure. Yet he has been angry that I’m still bringing it up.

        La skank moved on to another sucker ages ago. She’s already had a child to him and they are getting married. More fool him. I just hope he was not another married guy.

        • Sarah P

          Hi Tired,

          You were dealing with a spouse poacher extraordinaire. Indeed, “La skank.” Or “La Pute” or “La Puta.” Anyway you slice it, this lady was experienced at what she did. I am glad that some other sucker gets her because she will probably leave your H alone. I also hope it was not a married man.

          For whatever reason this reminded me of a guy I know. I feel sorry for him. Several years ago, he was taken for a real ride. He was single. A woman in her early 20’s knew he came from a prestigious family (money) and that even though he had a blue collar job, the family made sure he had a nice house and vacation. He is a very nice guy. He did NOT want to date this women because she came on so strong. She was also physically attractive, but I could see she had a rotten soul to the core. He saw it to (without anyone telling him) but she wore him down. She kept saying he was the most handsome man and she would die without him. And she wanted to have 6 kids so she could see his face in 7 different people!! And she told his family and friends the same thing. The lady was quite an actress and I saw through it completely. However, I kept my mouth shut. I was friends with his elderly parents but not with him. My husband knew what I thought and hoped I was wrong. Anyhow, this little lady who mooched off others got married to this poor guy. His parents bought them a new house. (This lady had never had a job…she just mooched on people. She never went to school either. She just spent all her time looking for suckers.) So they got married and she talked about their huge future family but for whatever reason she did not get pregnant. The guy was starting to wonder. Then one day she came and told him he had a choice: get a divorce or a vasectomy. She had decided her beautiful body could not be subject to something as lowly as a child. (I am being LITERAL. She said that.) His heart sank and he got a vasectomy. Then 6 months later, he found his (male) best friend in bed with his wife.

          The wife and his best friend convinced him he was weak and did not know how to satisfy her. The guy believed them. The guy allowed himself to be bullied out of living in the house his own parents bought. His parents tried to step in but their son begged them not to– he said she was right– he was a loser and did not deserve anything.

          I am going to say something truthful. I met this woman right after the affair came out and I wanted to take her to court on his behalf. This woman was a sociopath. She destroyed his soul and took everything she could from him then got engaged to his best friend. I hope karma comes to get her and his best friend. These are disgusting people.

          He did find someone else who loves him and I would say he was probably meant to be with this woman. He knew her husband and she and her H had kids. Her young husband got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and asked him to ‘take care of’ her and the kids. His dying friend told him he could marry (the dying friend’s) wife or he could take care of her and make sure she and the kids are ok. I am not sure if they married, but they did move in together after they dated. The kids were so young, he raised them as his own and obviously with his friend’s blessing. The guy is a good guy and since the real father of the kids died, he really is the best father the kids could hope for. He is a very kind person and I am sure he is a good husband/boyfriend to the wife. By the way, this was not a creepy situation since he had to be convinced by his dying friend that the friend “chose him” to help with the kids. He felt bad because he did not want to go with his friend’s wife. But after the friend died, he helped the wife platonically as friends and they fell in love the old fashioned way. It worked out the way it was supposed to work out, I suppose. He deserved a great woman who loved him unconditionally and he found her. And the kids love him too and he is the best dad (since they cannot have their own.) Very sad.

          I hate it when people are mis-treated but maybe he needed to be available because he was the right person to step into the situation after the husband died and left a wife and two children under the age of 3 years old. These are the Good Men of the world– the Heroes. They are still together after 10 years and they appear to be happy.

          I just wish people could find their true loves and not have to meet a lot of users along the way.

          I wish the good people of the world could get together and leave the bad people to each other. But the biggest problem is, the bad people don’t want each other because they would have no one to take advantage of. The bad people seek out the best of people because the best of people don’t expect to see them coming. Thus, the best people can be fooled and used up. And on and on it goes.


          • Gina

            that’s disgusting and tragic. Because of my situation, I accept it and continue to see the lesson and have it change me for the better. Not gonna lie, the pain is unbearable at times, but I continue to heal.
            He deserves all the happiness life can give

            • Sarah P

              Hi Gina,

              I hope I do not offend you, but I wanted to give you a little bit of my own view of God. Full disclosure: My view is different than most. My mom’s side of the family is Jewish (but they do not practice and my dad’s side are Protestants from the British isles. Additionally, I am married to a Jew who does not practice Judaism. I study both Christianity and Judaism. I am also interested in what Buddhism can teach us on a philosophical level. Having said that…

              I believe that God restores the years that the ‘locus hath eaten.’ I believe that everything God does is eventually for our ultimate good, but God does not send other women and cheaters our way. (They come of their own free will). God protects our hearts as best as he can during these trials. God can help you grow through this situation and I wanted to re-iterate that God does not agree with what your H and the OW are doing. What they are doing defiles the laws in the 10 Commandments. If people want to be under the protection of God, they need to live their lives according to the 10 Commandments. You are living your life correctly. But, do not ever feel like you need to be a position where you save your husband from himself. You are also allowed to be angry at your H and the other woman. You are allowed to rise up like a lion and try to pursue custody of that child. He was not born under perfect circumstances, but he needs protection from his mom who will be a lousy parent. I have found that people usually don’t do something really terrible in one aeea of their life, only to be a saint in other areas. Bringing a child into the world to be a pawn is evil. That child needs your protection since you can see him as a child of God (which he is) while everyone else is playing life-destroying games. You are also allowed to have righteous anger over this situation. Jesus had righteous anger at appropriate times. My oldest son talked about Jesus being ‘a wimp’ one day. Then I told him the story about how Jesus went all ‘incredible hulk’ when people were defiling the holy place of God. After that he liked Jesus. My youngest one loves Jesus but cracked up when he heard about Jesus throwing tables and pushing over the tables of people who were treating the holy temple as a bank.

              Please don’t ever lose sight of yourself and of your right to be loved and understood. I know your H went through trauma, but so did you. Unconditional love is great, but please give it to yourself FIRST and then to the child second. We can give unconditional love to people who hurt us, but we must ensure that it does not turn into enabling.

              For example: let’s imagine you had a teenager who decided to start using marijuana and he started doing really bad things to get ahold of it. You would love your teen unconditionally, but you would rebuke the harmful thing that your teen was engaging in. You would set boundaries with your teen and enlist the help of professionals to set boundaries without alienating your teen. If you only gave the teen unconditional love, he would realize there was no real penalty for engaging in an activity that could destroy him and others. One time someone said: don’t be so loving that you turn into a squishy jelly fist, but don’t be so punitive that you turn into an iron fist. There needs to be a balance between unconditional love and consequences.

              Know this: however you handle this, I SUPPORT you.

              But, if I am writing to you it is because I am scared for you and want to ensure you know your rights as a human being and your rights as a beloved child of God. God does not send these trials, but he can love us through them. He also does not want us to feel pain due to another’s actions. In the end, God is the only one who can save your husband and he needs saving from himself. I don’t know quite what he experienced as a child, but it is apparent he is trying to “out run” something painful. In these cases, affairs can be used to self-medicate. It is a distraction and can work for a couple of years, but then the new and shiny wears off and it is on to the next thing.

              No matter what happens, I send you blessings and the hope that you can feel God’s tremendous love for you.


          • Tired

            This is a very evil woman. Why would you ask your husband to get a vasectomy? If you don’t want children there are other ways to not get pregnant. Probably she was thinking that if there was an accident and they had a child together he might get custody and get to live in his own house. That would have got in her way of getting the house for herself and his louse of a friend. But this story is even worse than just that…it’s like it wasn’t enough to dump him for his friend, she wanted to take everything from him, destroy him, and then stop him from moving on to a family of his own.

            Sometimes I just wish I could un-know some of the things I have found out about how other people will do any ruthless thing to get what they want. I never would have believed it was possible to be that low. Chalk it up to life’s experience I suppose. And being too trusting!

            • Sarah P

              Hi Tired,

              I think the woman who made her husband get a vasectomy and “stole” the house and his best friend is a sociopath. There is a book called The Sociopath Next Door. It is a must read. Why?

              Because all of us (including me) generally have the idea that if someone is a sociopath they might be in jail, or they might walk around all day kicking cats, or they cannot hide their behavior.

              But here is the thing– only 15% or less of the prison population qualifies as a sociopath. Sociopaths kick cats and other animals or humans but only do so in private. Sociopaths copy the personalities of benign people and use it as a way to fool– the typical wolf in sheep’s clothing.

              I will tell everyone about the time I encountered a sociopath. I have mentioned this person before, but only in regards to her affair.

              Here is what she looked like on the outside: a tall, super-bubbly, blond who could feign concern when needed. She was married and worked on the same floor as her husband. (She was on our team.) She was always organizing celebrations and team building events and schmoozing with the managers.

              But, here are the things she did and said when there were no witnesses. She was the one who seduced that upper manager who was married with 6 kids. Once he gave her the managerial position she needed, she went to HR and claimed he raped her over a period of three years. HR escorted him out the door in hand-cuffs. (Remember, she was also married– and she also asked her husband to get a vasectomy even though she is not the lady I wrote about in the above paragraph.) I had several Twilight Zone experiences with this lady. One time she accidentally took home the manager’s laptop and the manager asked me to get it. (I was senior on the team and in a team lead position).

              Her husband was not home yet. I saw two Siamese-hybrid looking cats cowering under the dining table. I told her they were beautiful cats. She said they were stupid and then showed me how “stupid” they were. She took both of them out and started screaming and chasing them around her condo. The cats dove under the couch. She laughed and said “they fall for it every time. I am just playing.” I did not know how to react because these cats were frightened to death. (I don’t treat animals this way and never have.) I got the laptop and left.

              Several weeks later, she accidentally brought the laptop home again. She called my fiance and asked for him to come and get it. He showed me the email correspondence. I went with him and sat in the car. When she saw I was there, she handed it over.

              Several months after that, she was a lead on some kind of project my fiance was working on. She would sit next to him in meetings. (Here is a side note. She was still married and her husband still worked on the same floor– she was also having sex with the manager with 6 kids AND with a very buff guy she had hired straight out of the military.) In these meetings, she sat next to my fiance and would put her hand in his crotch under the table. He would move and she would move and do it again. He told me about all of this. He was disgusted a married woman would do this. (But, he had no problem when a single woman came to poach him!!!!)

              This lady did so many other things that included fraud on company cards and everything else. It’s such a long story. But this is a snap shot of what a sociopath actually looks like. Most are not in jail and most only do their dirty work in front of one other person. That way there will be no witnesses. It is very sad. Sociopaths are difficult to spot. But I recommend the book The Sociopath Next Door to everyone.

              I believe many of the other women that commenters describe are probably sociopaths. But that is another story.


            • Tired

              Sarah, that is terrible. I have actually read that book…because I want to be able to spot one next time before they derail my life! I suspect our other woman was one too. She found the next man so quickly…I think he was probably around all along. Maybe he was the one who left his wife. In actuality I have no idea if he was married or not.

              And thanks for the make up video! Lol, I feel motivated to go glam up now 🙂

    • Sarah P.

      Hello Gina,

      Thank you for honoring us by telling your story. Thank you for laughing at my satirical comments. They are there so you can laugh instead of cry about these terrible situations.

      Anytime, I have gone through profoundly traumatic experiences, God and humor gets me through. Otherwise I would crumble to the ground. I write these blogs to validate the betrayed spouses of the world and I am very hard on the folks who knowingly make choices to destroy the lives of others.

      Jesus had righteous anger and many people forget that whether they follow Christianity or Judaism. Well, Jews don’t worship Jesus, but many admire him and his message. (I worship the One God and not Jesus. However I do believe he is the Son of God and he provided the perfect example to live by. I also believe he healed and believe people can heal today by asking God or Jesus or both for healing. My views are complicated since I am half Jewish and half Scottish/Swedish/general wasp countries.) Anyhow there is one thing that always stood out to me. Most people think of Jesus as the ultimate model for love and compassion. And he is. But, they forget the strong rebukes he gave. The Jewish Temple and the Christian church body is a metaphor for marriage and God or Jesus is the metaphorical head of the marriage. When the money changers came to defile the Temple, Jesus went nuclear. I am sure he had some choice words while he was going all Incredible Hulk and throwing tables around. He was angry because the Temple was defiled. Get my drift? Well since marriage is a symbol of the temple of God, affairs defile that Holy Temple. And like Jesus, we are allowed to have Righteous Anger. That is why I am hard of wayward spouses and spouse poachers like the one in your situation. They have defiled the holy temple of marriage and my satirical words are my way of throwing tables at money changers.

      I am just so sorry what you have gone through and once again your real life story is proof these people are not nice people who merely just happened to lose their way.

      I am angry on your behalf for losing your home. I am angry on your behalf since you did the right thing (accept the beautiful and innocent child) just to have him turn from you. The only chance that little boy has is being raised BY YOU. And you have taken in this little innocent soul as your own, he has come to love you, and OW punishes you for that. As I have said before. These are NOT nice people!! Even though you accepted what she saw as a pawn (as your own child) she is so selfish she cannot stand the thought of her child having a stable home. Say what???

      Here is what I would like to know. Is the therapist you see helping? Do they specialize in these topics? Here specialize only in this topic, have the life experience and the credentials to specialize. When I was in graduate school they had no affair recovery curriculum. I have created my own by doing my own research and cobbling together what hopefully might one day be something remotely helpful. My theories have a very heavy bias towards family of origin (both genetically and speaking purely in terms of nurture and not nature). My theories are also biased toward trauma and trauma bonds. I am just seriously curious at to what your therapist says. Does the therapist make both your H and OW take accountability? Also, if therapist starts to hone in on you and wonder what you did to create a cheating husband, run far away. There is so much research now to show there is nothing a person can do to “make their spouse cheat.” It’s an old theory that is both completely wrong and needs to be thrown away for good.

      You are very brave and courageous to share what you have been through. These situations are messy and you found the right place. I have graduate credentials in psychology, but try to keep the blog “real.”

      Please let us know how we can help you navigate this terrible situation. It’s a very supportive group here and hopefully you can find some solace. Everyone has their own, unique horror story and rest assured I love everyone no matter how big or small the story. But most of all, helping people navigate these issues is my life calling.

      Finally, I am sorry your H is treating you like a frenemy. You deserve much better than platonic hugs and separate beds. You deserve validation especially since you are going through such a tough time. You did not cause this and yet you took the highest road. I am just sorry that your husband and the OW won’t let go already. In a perfect scenario, you and your H would get full custody and OW could find someone else (single) and hopefully not have more children. I am not getting the idea that OW makes good mom material. All of us are imperfect. But let’s say some people have small flaws that are easily overcome while others are walking train wrecks. All we can hope is that the walking train wrecks of the world don’t encounter us. And yet they always manage to do it anyways.

      I will pray for you, Gina, for whatever it is worth.


    • Gina

      thank you Sarah. I stopped going to the therapist, she wasn’t helping. She wasn’t open minded, she was going by tradition. She is divorced and I knew early on that I would never go to her for us as a couple, it would cause too much damage. That’s why I told my H to go with the OW, it was a man bash. Recently my H stopped seeing her also because she told him that he is crazy for wanting to continue a relationship with me and no one does this….funny that was the same thing that came out of the OWs mouth..”she should have been gone by now” Anyway, to give my husband some credit, he is trying to do the right thing. His emotions are still trying to rule his life, they always have. He needs to mature, to sit and feel the pain of everything he lost and to learn from it. We live separately so hopefully he takes advantage of the time alone, as I do. The OW is a train wreck, she is all about drama.
      My H just found out she bought a townhouse. I’m sure it hurt him to see her moving on, but hopefully shows him that he wasn’t that important to her anyway..I say hope cause it could just be a ploy and she will ask him to move in like she has been doing for the last 3.5 years.
      It’s ok that he tells me he loves her, I know it is just a feeling, a fantasy stemmed from his childhood trauma. When I sit and listen to his heart I show him my unconditional love. We have always been best friends and it gives me a chance to rebuild our friendship. Its the only way we can have a future. He listens to me also and if a hug is all he can do, then I accept it gratefully. he is a good man that did a bad thing, he doesn’t like who he became and he wants to change and try to forgive himself for all the pain he has caused.
      Today is my bday, I am 53. I am sad that my relationship is still not what I would like it to be, but I know it is because there are things I still need to do and people, like u, I need to connect with…this is my therapy. Thank you for being here.

      • Sarah P

        Hello Gina,

        Happy belated 53rd birthday. I sincerely hope you got a break from all of this pain. Please feel free to talk to us here all that you need to. I also have an email if you prefer to speak privately. All emails are free and confidential.

        I am glad that you can see very clearly what is going on with your H in terms of childhood trauma. It does a number on people. It leaves an empty and sometimes un-fillable hole in their hearts and they use life to frantically search for someone to heal their wounds. Men who experienced trauma often use affairs to fill these holes, especially if they had a mean mom or a mom who was indifferent or neglectful.

        Still, I want you to ensure that whatever happens with your H, you need to be taken care of financially. You lost your house and she gets to have a townhome. That really makes me angry. You are by far the bigger person here and have a wisdom most of us do not have or cannot practice– that is you can provide unconditional love in the face of pain. Please do not forget you also need to heal.

        I am really angry that the OW uses this dear child as a pawn. She has given birth to someone who she will manipulate and use as a tool of manipulation. You wanted to take the high road because this child and she took that away.

        I hope your husband becomes clued in. I wish he would pursue custody and raise the child with you. The woman in this scenario is too selfish to be a good parent. One more child is born into dysfunction and will be at the whims of someone who will cause that child to have a hole in their heart when they grow up. On and on the cycle goes, when it stops, nobody knows. I wish “nobody” would tell us when these sick cycles will stop, by the way.

        Anyways, we are here for you. I don’t know how big you are on prayer, but sometimes it is helpful to petition a higher power to step in and give guidance and help hearts chance. What I know of “God” is that God does not want people to sin or to suffer, especially not this little child.

        We are here to listen and help.

        • Gina

          Thank You Sarah,
          I answer publicly in case there are others who I can help..it helps me heal.
          God and prayer has gotten me though the worse times. I believe I am doing what he wants me to do, HIS will be done.
          My H was abused by his father both physically and emotionally. He was also molested by a priest and I believe shamed for it. So yes I knew that he was very broken, I was also because of my abuse, I thought he was healed but I guess he just shoved it down and it exploded. My thought is that you would never abandon a child who does something stupid because of trauma or immaturity, so why leave your H. Yeah I know, they are adults and should know better, but that is an expectation. An expectation I had without knowing the whole story of his trauma, now it all makes sense.
          His Mom is all he had and his siblings went their own way…then Mom moved home to Thailand, I believe this hurt him. She never calls and took the news of the baby hard. She was angry with him and would avoid the subject. She loved my kids and would call them her own, I’m sure her avoidance hurt him. His Dad has found God and turned around, trying to be the best that he can be. Sometimes my H finds things that he does like his Dad does, not sure if its ok with him or if it scares him.
          He financially takes care of me. His check still goes into my account and I transfer funds. He pays my car payment so we are left with equally the same amount….YES it pisses her off. When she found out we were living in the same complex she flipped out. When her son talks about me she gets mad. Sorry honey, but I’m not going anywhere…
          She doesn’t trust him and she gives him shit about things he does unless it goes along with what she wants. She continues to make him feel bad about himself. I wish I knew someone that he could talk to, someone that he could relate with and open his eyes to the fact that what he feels is not real love, its limerence, a fantasy, a guilt trip, a void filling mistake that didn’t work cause the void is still there. Fillable only by God and healing of the past.
          The card he gave me for my birthday was heartfelt and loving….he loves me, he just doesn’t trust his feelings cause they lie to him. He is stuck, trying to move forward only to get smacked back down by her drama.
          Know of anyone?

          • Tired

            She doesn’t trust him? I wonder why. You would think getting involved with a married man who is lying to his wife would be a big red flag. But no. I mean, how dumb are some people. No wonder these relationships almost always fail. Even if they get the man they would be always suspicious of him. And the man would think the same of the woman. My husband only a couple of weeks after this ‘affair’ started was asking to come back home. And the first thing he said was that she couldn’t be trusted. I still wonder what it was that made him come to this conclusion, but that is what he said. But then I guess there are some women who just don’t care because they are so low that they would conceive a child as some sort of insurance policy, as Sarah mentioned. Well I’ve never had to do that Gina, and either have you. And that is probably why our husbands are still with us.

            As for using the child as a pawn…well that is about as low as anyone could go. These women are scum. They will also raise scum. I agree that the child is better off with you. That’s the only hope for this child. His father knows it and that is why he is with you.

            • Gina

              thank you for giving me a place to say what I really feel….she is scum. The only reason I wish her happiness is for the sake of her child and me!! I will always feel that she will be after my H unless she is happy with someone else. Please someone take her away!!
              I will keep praying for my H heart to turn towards me, to look to God for answers, and heal from all his trauma..He is a good man.

          • Sarah P

            Hi Gina,

            Thank you for sharing your story publicly. I admire you for doing so and using it to help others. No one should have to feel shame about what they are going through, but I always offer email as an alternative.

            It is easy to see that your husband never got healed of the trauma he experienced. When people have been traumatized and have not healed, they act out. You are right that he is experiencing limerence and fantasy. You are also right that he has a hole that is only fillable by God.

            Unfortunately, people have to often hit their own ‘rock bottoms’ before they are willing to seek God and/or a therapist. All you can do is keep praying and asking God to personally intervene in this situation. God may be intervening now, but when we are in the moment, we cannot see what will happen in the end. Sometimes when things look their worst, God is still working in the background and it takes time for ‘His will to be done.” It is a process. But you are extremely wise and see the situation for what it is.

            What I can encourage you to do is to ask God to show you your husband through God’s eyes– to see him how God sees him– and to see him how God sees him each day. Gina, I am so glad that you are using prayer to get through this situation. I will say quite honestly that I cannot get through life’s trials without turning to the all-loving and unconditionally loving God. I am all too human and I personally need both prayer and an understanding of psychology to work through life’s trials. (But, I do admire people who can get through life without prayer.) Here is a Brandon Heath song:


            • Gina

              thank you

    • TheFirstWife

      Gina. Sometimes they hit rock bottom and still continue to make poor choices.

      It is hard to watch someone you love make the wrong choice and continue to live with it.

      It is hard to watch someone you love throw their life away.

      But in the end you can only be who you are – and you are a person with kindness and compassion. Your H is missing out.

      He’s just too blinded to see it.

      • Sarah P

        Hello TFW,

        Don’t know if you saw Gina’s question about post-nups. But it would be awesome if you could tell Gina the in’s and out’s of a post-nup agreement. You are the only person I have met (online or otherwise) who successfully put a post-nup together. I believe it is the smartest thing a betrayed spouse can do, but I have no idea how to set them up. (I am also aware it changes from state to state.) TFW, if you could tell Gina (and the rest of us) where to begin. If you have the time to do so, that would be awesome.

        Thank you so much,


    • Gina

      I know, its so hard. Just like watching your kids make bad choices and all you can do is love them and be there when they fall. This is what I believe unconditional love to be, paired with trying not to be a doormat. BOUNDRIES and loving yourself first is the thing to do.

      • Tired

        I am sorry Gina if I sounded harsh. But I am only worried about you. But I still think you should think about what I said. This is your life, Gina. Don’t let anyone other than yourself make those big decisions.

        I thought you had advice already about getting a post nuptial agreement. I cant find it. I think you should do this now before anything worse happens. And I also think I should take my own advice!

        • Gina

          what is a post nup? if I was worried about him not taking care of me I would file for separation….his paycheck still goes into my acct, I don’t have a problem.​

    • Sarah P

      Note to all the betrayed women reading here….

      I don’t care how old you are in biological years. You can always be gorgeous and even look 20 years YOUNGER with the right make-up. Here is an empowering video by Kandee Johnson. She takes 20 years off her mother’s face.

      Betrayed women, do not ever allow someone to make you feel less than in terms of your appearance. Even if you have natural beauty, you can use make-up techniques to enhance your beauty and be reminded of it.

      I am an advocate for betrayed wives and helping them look and feel beautiful. This is NOT shallow. This is a way to contradict the ‘self talk’ that betrayed wives struggle with on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people whisper comments judging the appearance of betrayed spouses. People should not judge a book by its cover– but they do. Many betrayed wives take these comments to heart. (Not all, but some, and these views further erode a woman’s self-esteem.)

      Because they are judged, I do believe the right kind of make-up can do wonders for a betrayed spouse. She can be affirmed that she is beautiful– she is enough– and the other woman is not better. Her advantage is that she is new AND she presents the very best of herself in a way that is tightly controlled.

      Here is a quick video for betrayed wives about taking 20 years off your face. Love it.


      • Tired

        Yes, I agree, 20 years. I wish the video was a bit slower so I could see how to do it myself! I shall search the annals of youtube for more!

    • Thefirstwife

      Gia. A post nup is like a pre-nup but it is signed after the M.

      I have one after my H’s A.

      It is basically an agreement that spells out assets and division of property in case of a split.

      Example: if there is a divorce the wife and children can remain in the house until last child is 21. Or if there is a D the H gives up all rights to the wife’s IRA or retirement accounts.

      In mine, my H has no claim on any of my assets. Everything on my name alone is excluded as marital assets.

      I had him sign a post nup as a condition of R. I had to protect myself and children b/c he wanted a D during his A. And he said it numerous times.

      • Gina

        thank u for the info…are you reconciling?

    • Amy

      Hi Sarah and all,
      I have been reading your articles and comments – all these are very interesting and encouraging especially for the betrayed spouse (including me). I found out my husband had an affair with his Russian colleague at the end of Nov and for few weeks I didn’t know what to do and since I lost 5 kg of my weight within two months. This happened after he came back from a conference in Russia and since was constantly on his what-Sapp so, I thought he had an affair with a Russian woman whom he met in Russia (which he bluntly admitted and lied about). However, as a wife I had a strong feeling that it was not this Russian woman in Russia that he is having an affair with, in fact it is the Russian woman whom he worked with. Well, I don’t think it matters, what matters is, my husband is having an affair and lied to me. Since his affair, he started to put a password on his phone, change his email passwords etc. Their ‘love’ affair was so intense that he didn’t even sleep until about 3 to 4am every night because he was so carried away chatting on his whatsapp with the AP. The AP is a single mom with her 5 year old daughter. Of course, like other cheaters, my husband has also told her about our unhappy marriage (although we have been married for 17 years) to create sympathy.
      After about a month of doing research and reading articles (including from this lovely website), I slightly gained my strength and was able to control myself and confront him in the best way I could. I did not beg him to break the relationship with his affair (which I did at the beginning) – instead I told him off to stay with her, since he has promised that he would move in to her apartment in next Sept. He even helped her with house-moving, purchased expensive bed and mattress, painted their ‘future’ room etc in the new house. I have even suggested to have a temporary separation with him so that he knows what he wants to do but he refused. I also told him that with or without him, I will survive with my two sons. I have now received an offer to work in Saudi Arabia and I told him that I am planning to go in September/ or latest early next year.
      Out of sudden, he just changed his mind – from the plan to move in with the OW in September, to now he wants to come with me or find another job within the same area. He also suggested us both to move anyway in other country, ie. Asian countries (not UK where we both are based now). His reason was that, he realised that he has made a mess and that he doesn’t want to break this family and he loves us very much although he does ‘love’ that OW as well. (it seems now that he ‘loves’ that OW a little less – in contrast to what he used to say ‘he loved me but very little and he loved that OW very very much that he was not willing to let her go – this was back in November when he personally told me! He said that he considers that OW as his friend and has told her about his intention of moving away from the UK, although he did not specify that he wanted to return to us. Well – this is kind of good news.
      However, the dark side is still happening although he does it openly and I am aware about it too. He has requested me to be patient until September (or until we move away from the UK which is expected to be in September or January next year). For the time being, he has to still stay at that OW’s property for two nights (he has been doing this since his affair started), because he needs a place for his work – which I think is not a good excuse, although the distance from our home to his work is about two hours’ drive. For the sake of the kids, I agreed to let him but I have emphasised that this cannot be like this forever and if he cannot decide, then I will make my own decision. From what I saw, he has not gut to leave the OW, probably because of his position (senior level) and that OW is a junior colleague. He kept on saying how much he loves this family and me, but it is very hard to trust his word now, especially when he is still not being transparent (lock his phone etc) and gave reasons for continuing to go to this OW’s place although his job does not really requires him to be in the office all the time. I continue to feel that he is fooling me around.
      To be honest, I know I have don’t quite well, but at some point I really feel that I want to leave him and just move on. I wanted him to openly say that he has decided to leave me and stay with that OW, but his response was “please don’t force me to make a decision that will make me (or us) feel regret”. Perhaps it is a high time for me to give him an ultimatum.
      If you can shed some lights to help me with this ‘never seem to end’ drama please—I really appreciate it.


      • Gina

        First off, I am so sorry this is happening to you. There is a thing called limerance, it is like an addiction to another…find info on you tube under marriage helper. My H also Loved his AP, she even had his child….so its up to you. Make a decision whether you want to stay married or not an stick with it. Ask yourself, is he a bad person doing a bad thing, or a good person doing a bad thing. Affairs have nothing to do with the partner, its all because of a void or a self esteem issue in the cheating spouse. The AP is like a drug he cant get away from. Time for boundries which you can find in marriage helper also.
        I decided to stay and our relationship is stronger, but after 4 years there is a lot of healing to do. If you need anything don’t hesitate to ask.

        • Amy

          Hi Gina

          I have read about this from the marriage advisor website and listened to the audio – it was very good and helpful. I do think that my H was on limerent. He seems to have woke up a bit from this limerent. As I said, he has told the OW that he has decided not to pursue with her but just to treat her as a friend (He read a response from the OW in front of me to prove that he has mentioned about his intention to move away and not to move in with her in September. The OW now seems to be reluctant to let him go – I think this is where he is getting stuck. He has no gut to completely cut the relationship off because of the risk that his reputation may be damage (something which he shoulld have thought all the way long before he put his dick inside her!!).

          I have sent him an altimatum, ie. after we come back from our holiday in the September, I will leave him if he continues staying there for two nights. No reason whatso ever to stay at the OW’s house, he could have stayed in a budget hotel (like he used to) if he needs to.

          • Gina

            good job on the boundries. they will vacillate back and forth. having them together will make the limerance die faster. Its his character he should worry about, reputation is what others think of you and who cares.
            You are a strong woman. If you want your marriage then stand strong, I will help you as much as I can.
            You are correct and cannot force him to leave her, you can only be patient. Invest in yourself and look for a good coach, you will both need one.

            • Amy

              Hi GIna,

              For the sake of the kids, I do want my marriage but it really hurts me to know that he is still seeing that OW although he seems regret with his actions.

              I didnt really ready all your posts, but are you still with your H or have you divorced him? What did you do to make you marriage work.
              My H asked me to work on this marriage, he wants my patience, emotional connection and touch etc which I did. The thing is that, I started to become very rebellious or agressive (after the affair started) when one small thing happens. Then we have to go back to where we started. Trust is the main problem that takes role in this relationship.

              I feel that I have been patient enough since Nov last year, despite how hurt I was when he confessed about his affair.

              Thanks Gina.

            • Gina

              I am still with my husband. I have gone though a lot of what you have been though.
              I joined this blog because I wanted to support women who wanted to stay with their husbands with a child involved. Patience is key and what is doing is just a matter of perception. He is doing nothing to you, he is destroying his life, the life you happen to share with him. This process is long, been at least 4 years for me. We are friends again and his”love” for her is now hate and the guilt/shame overwhelm him at times. 2 weeks ago I slept for my H for the first time in 4 years, he hasn’t been with her in 2 years. The whole process is a marathon. Sounds like you want your H in your life, then just work on you and leave that love open and strong. This is his journey and your strength will bring him back. I would warn him about STDs and possible pregnancy, which is what this AP did to try and get him to leave me. He sees her manipulation and control now, but we lost so much. I am there when he needs me, but otherwise I just live my own life.
              google “I am the Wife” it will encourage you. I also follow Kyle Cease a transformational coach.
              To everyone else, we all have our own journey and process. I am here because I love my H not to control him. Just because you are with your H and he doesn’t complain doesn’t mean he is happy. Just because he is sleeping with someone else doesn’t mean he is happy….One thing I have learned is to not listen to what they are saying, actions speak louder than words.

            • Amy

              Dear Gina,
              Thank you – you seem to have persevered so much , 4 years is not a short timeframe. And I do not know whether I have the patience to that long. Till before we went for summer holiday back to his country, he was still sleeping with the OW. And even now, I suspect he still texts her – although he kept on saying that he treats her as his friend now, (typical excuse to justify him continue contacting her). Honestly, I dont understand why he has no balls to tell her frankly that he want to end their dirty affair – which makes me assume that he really loves her. I agree with you, action speaks louder. That is why I still have doubt about his words to me (and even his brother back home – he told his brother that he wanted to get rid of this OW that was why he was applying for a job somewhere else). To me, he is not solving his problem, in fact he is running away from his problem. I told him that he has no balls to tell that OW that he wants to end their affair.
              Your word of encouragement helps me to be strong but I do not know how long can I hold on to this – thank you.

      • Sarah P.

        Hello Amy,

        I apologize for not answering sooner and I am grateful that Gina, Rose, and TheFirstWife have been giving you such great advice.

        Your situation is difficult and I have been thinking it over. One of the things in your situation that my response depends upon is any cultural elements involved. Unfortunately, I am very familiar with “the dark side” of Russian culture/Russian women who get involved with married men and it’s not positive. I would like to know if you and your H are from a Western culture or not and if you are religious or not. These details of culture and religion will affect my advice.

        I have lived in and spent time in 23 different countries and I am bi-lingual. (Russia is one of the countries I have spent time in).

        It sounds like you and your H are used to working in other parts of the world.

        I am aware of jobs in Saudi Arabia and they pay very well, but I wonder how you would be treated as a single mom as sons and where you would work– that is would you work on a US military base (which is very protected) or would you work within the Saudi culture.

        Your cultural background will also impact how Saudis view you and your situation and how you will be treated. This is why more information will be great. My dad’s American friends taught English in Saudi Arabia but were able to live in one of the American compounds. Outside of the compound, life was brutal because the wife in this couple was actually from Iceland but raised in the US. I have never met someone who made it to adulthood with naturally (almost white platinum hair) paper-white skin, and enormous blue eyes. Burkas could not hide who she was and they experienced many problems.

        In your situation, I really need to know what culture you are from and your husband is from
        and have an idea how you might be viewed if you took a job as a single mom in Saudi Arabia.

        Of course, the standard affair advice applies. Get an STD check. That is a MUST.

        If I were you, I would hire and attorney and a detective. You need to know what your H is telling the Russian woman and if there are more women he is seeing and also if there are men men SHE is seeing.

        Also, sometimes men have been known to have their mistresses clandestinely follow them to their new location with their wife (as they allegedly work out their marriage.) You need to know what they are saying to each other. And you need an attorney.

        And moving to Asia? Depending on what culture you are (again) you would fare better staying in the UK in terms of YOUR rights.



        • Amy

          Hi Sarah,

          Thank you very much for your advice. Well, we both are Asian origin (I am from Asian country and my H is from a small country near South Africa, but he is of an Asian origin). My husband is a professor in one established university in UK and I am a senior lecturer in the UK as well. (Unfortunately his professor level has yet to make him mature enough to understand how ‘good’ Russian women are). We both have UK citizenship. And the OW is his mentee (junior lecturer in the same university where he works). I am religious, my husband was, but since he met this OW he started to claim that he is liberal. To be specific, we both are Muslim, hence the reason why I intend to move to Saudi. In addition, my brother has been working in Jeddah for many years now. I was invited by my friend to apply for a higher position in the university where she works – and I have been offered (now waiting for the formal offer letter), with good package including compound accommodation, allowance for international school, flight tickets, medical and insurance. I do understand the culture of Saudi people. I am well aware that they are generally hot tempered – we just need to know how to deal with them. I have met some friends from Saudi including the one who invited me to work in her university.

          Regarding the Russian woman, unfortunately I have to agree with you, they have a record of having too many dark side. In fact, at the beginning of their affair (which was at the end of Nov – Dec), my H told me that although he did not intend to divorce me religiously (according to Islamic law), but we may have to annul our civil marriage certificate in order for him to marry her, to enable her gain her and her daughter’s British passport. Because of the intense feeling (probably lust as well) he had towards that OW, he was willing to sacrifice our 17 years of marriage. Apparently that OW was divorced from her Swedish husband a year or two ago. Ironically, my H called her ex-H a bastard for leaving their 5 year old daughter. I thought, what about you – you are leaving your two sons to take care of other’s daughter, it doesn’t make any sense at all. I was so furious and of course devastated, but I kept quiet. The next morning, I said to him, “ok, I am ready whenever you are ready to annul our certificate”. I think he was a bit shock, and smiled at me and said: “well, it is not going to be too soon, it may be after a year” … huh…

          During that time, he also said to me, “I love you less and less, and I really love that OW very much that I can’t afford her to fall into other man”. I think only us, the betrayed wife can feel how hurt it is when our own H said this to us. At home, he was not like he is, constantly on his phone and would stay very late at night to enable him chatting with the OW, whilst me at the same time trying to figure out the problem and I managed to do some research. I then concluded that my H is on his mid-life crisis and he is on his limerence.

          I think this OW is very aggressive and manipulative (well I don’t know if their education and family background may affect their personality – both dad and mum are doctors). From my silly H’s perspective, of course he sees her very sweet and that she loves him very much and that she really wants him to move in with her in Sept. I would say the most horrible time was starting from end of November until April when I could see he started to calm down although the affair is still on until now.

          OK – I don’t really know what made him change him mind and wanted to come back to the family when back last year, he made a plan to leave us and was very certain that he would move in. In fact, in February, he helped her with her house move, bought an expensive bed and mattress (for them according to him), expensive microwave which unfortunately went off (burnt) after two months of use – I guess this is part of karma  and other things including furniture for the daughter. He also painted their room etc (found out all these from his bank statement). So basically the moving plan seemed serious.

          Last night, I was almost tempted to suggest that we divorce after we come back from our holiday, ie. in September. I don’t know if this is not a good decision, so I did not tell him.

          Now, as I said in my previous posts, although he admitted that he made a mess and he wanted his family back, I find it difficult to believe because of the fact that he is still staying with her for two nights. I have given him an ultimatum until September to decide. I gave three options which he needs to decide, otherwise I will leave him (1) leave the OW completely and back to the family; (2) leave the family and he can stay with the OW; (3) leave all of us and stay on his own. He said he loves that OW but less now, and he really loves me and the family, that is the reason why he has chosen not to move in with her, and why he wants us to move away from the UK. To me, he has no gut to tell that OW that he wants his family back although he will have to work at the present institution. Now that many colleagues have noticed about their affair, and they both are on panic mode.
          Sadly, I was told by my son who just finished his GSCE last month. He accidently saw a nude picture of the OW on his dad’s phone – what a shame. And my son was disgusted and he just didn’t want to think about it because he was having his exam at that point of time.
          Nowadays, my H always said he loves me and asked me if I also love him – I find it difficult to answer to this question. Yes, I do love him, but I hate his action and what he has done to me and the kids. He said he really wants an emotional connection between us like before and he really wants us to make this marriage work again. He tried hard to have an intimate relationship with me but most of the time he failed – I know this sounds personal, but if you can shed some light why this has happened(I don’t know why, probably because of the guilt, or because he is now getting used to the way that OW treated him…) The problem is that, I just cannot accept the fact that he is still seeing the OW whom I think is trying to pursue him, knowing that he has declined to stay in with her.

          If you may give me some advice or information – you have mentioned that you did work in Russia and know a lot about these Russian women, can you tell from your perspective about them.
          Thank you Sarah.

          Yes, I totally agree with you, I have read many negative things about Russioan women

        • Amy

          Hi Sarah,
          Thank you very much for your advice. Well, we both are Asian origin (I am from Asian country and my H is from a small country near South Africa, but he is of an Asian origin). My husband is a professor in one established university in UK and I am a senior lecturer in the UK as well. (Unfortunately his professor level has yet to make him mature enough to understand how ‘good’ Russian women are). We both have UK citizenship. And the OW is his mentee (junior lecturer in the same university where he works). I am religious, my husband was, but since he met this OW he started to claim that he is liberal. To be specific, we both are Muslim, hence the reason why I intend to move to Saudi. In addition, my brother has been working in Jeddah for many years now. I was invited by my friend to apply for a higher position in the university where she works – and I have been offered (now waiting for the formal offer letter), with good package including compound accommodation, allowance for international school, flight tickets, medical and insurance. I do understand the culture of Saudi people. I am well aware that they are generally hot tempered – we just need to know how to deal with them. I have met some friends from Saudi including the one who invited me to work in her university.
          Regarding the Russian woman, unfortunately I have to agree with you, they have a record of having too many dark side. In fact, at the beginning of their affair (which was at the end of Nov – Dec), my H told me that although he did not intend to divorce me religiously (according to Islamic law), but we may have to annul our civil marriage certificate in order for him to marry her, to enable her gain her and her daughter’s British passport. Because of the intense feeling (probably lust as well) he had towards that OW, he was willing to sacrifice our 17 years of marriage. Apparently that OW was divorced from her Swedish husband a year or two ago. Ironically, my H called her ex-H a bastard for leaving their 5 year old daughter. I thought, what about you – you are leaving your two sons to take care of other’s daughter, it doesn’t make any sense at all. I was so furious and of course devastated, but I kept quiet. The next morning, I said to him, “ok, I am ready whenever you are ready to annul our certificate”. I think he was a bit shock, and smiled at me and said: “well, it is not going to be too soon, it may be after a year” … huh…
          During that time, he also said to me, “I love you less and less, and I really love that OW very much that I can’t afford her to fall into other man”. I think only us, the betrayed wife can feel how hurt it is when our own H said this to us. At home, he was not like he is, constantly on his phone and would stay very late at night to enable him chatting with the OW, whilst me at the same time trying to figure out the problem and I managed to do some research. I then concluded that my H is on his mid-life crisis and he is on his limerence.
          I think this OW is very aggressive and manipulative (well I don’t know if their education and family background may affect their personality – both dad and mum are doctors). From my silly H’s perspective, of course he sees her very sweet and that she loves him very much and that she really wants him to move in with her in Sept. I would say the most horrible time was starting from end of November until April when I could see he started to calm down although the affair is still on until now.
          OK – I don’t really know what made him change him mind and wanted to come back to the family when back last year, he made a plan to leave us and was very certain that he would move in. In fact, in February, he helped her with her house move, bought an expensive bed and mattress (for them according to him), expensive microwave which unfortunately went off (burnt) after two months of use – I guess this is part of karma  and other things including furniture for the daughter. He also painted their room etc (found out all these from his bank statement). So basically the moving plan seemed serious.
          Last night, I was almost tempted to suggest that we divorce after we come back from our holiday, ie. in September. I don’t know if this is not a good decision, so I did not tell him.
          Now, as I said in my previous posts, although he admitted that he made a mess and he wanted his family back, I find it difficult to believe because of the fact that he is still staying with her for two nights. I have given him an ultimatum until September to decide. I gave three options which he needs to decide, otherwise I will leave him (1) leave the OW completely and back to the family; (2) leave the family and he can stay with the OW; (3) leave all of us and stay on his own. He said he loves that OW but less now, and he really loves me and the family, that is the reason why he has chosen not to move in with her, and why he wants us to move away from the UK. To me, he has no gut to tell that OW that he wants his family back although he will have to work at the present institution. Now that many colleagues have noticed about their affair, and they both are on panic mode.
          Sadly, I was told by my son who just finished his GSCE last month. He accidently saw a nude picture of the OW on his dad’s phone – what a shame. And my son was disgusted and he just didn’t want to think about it because he was having his exam at that point of time.
          Nowadays, my H always said he loves me and asked me if I also love him – I find it difficult to answer to this question. Yes, I do love him, but I hate his action and what he has done to me and the kids. He said he really wants an emotional connection between us like before and he really wants us to make this marriage work again. He tried hard to have an intimate relationship with me but most of the time he failed – I know this sounds personal, but if you can shed some light why this has happened(I don’t know why, probably because of the guilt, or because he is now getting used to the way that OW treated him…) The problem is that, I just cannot accept the fact that he is still seeing the OW whom I think is trying to pursue him, knowing that he has declined to stay in with her.
          If you may give me some advice or information – you have mentioned that you did work in Russia and know a lot about these Russian women, can you tell from your perspective about them.
          Thank you Sarah.

    • Rose

      He is sleeping with OW at least 2 nights a week? He’s made his choice. Dump his stuff on the grass. Don’t do the “pick me” dance.

    • TheFirstWife

      Amy. I am so sorry for you. I really am. You deserve better and you ate in no way responsible for his decision to cheat.

      You have done so much right. You have made some excellent decisions to get away from his infidelity.

      Now down to the A and your M. My H did the same thing. He thought he could “test drive the OW” and was going to tell me a few months down the road what he was going to do.

      Hell no! He had to make a decision – her or me!!

      I was not going to do the pick me dance. I deserve better. As do you.

      I can see from what you have posted he is on the fence. For whatever reason he stays at her home. Hell No!! He is still cheating and disrespecting you.

      Plain & simple – you are being lied to and disrespected.

      You indicated your desire to move and take another job. It’s in another country. I’m not saying take it or don’t take it. But you need a plan B in case your M doesn’t last.

      And moving to a new job is a good solution. You are not obligated to take him with you. You know it – he knows it too.

      He offers up all kinds of scenarios – he will go with you or you will all go somewhere else. He is trying to control the situation and keep his A and M.

      Do not let that happen. Do not listen to anything he says unless and until he is no longer seeing the OW in any way shape or form. No excuses from him – it is either 100% no contact – or nothing!! He cannot have both of you.

      Follow his actions and not his words. His actions will show you exactly how committed he is to you. His words are worthless – he is still cheating.

      He is showing you his selfishness. He is showing you his lack of commitment to your M. He is showing you that he truly believes you are going to wait around for him. You need to see a commitment from him to the M. Not for one day. Or one month. But a consistent demonstration of actions that he is committed to helping you heal, repairing the damage he has caused to your N and his 100% commitment to fidelity.

      He is gambling with his M and family.

      He is stupid!

      • Amy

        Hi TheFirstWife,

        Thanks for your comments which i fully agreed. can you tell me what did you do and whether your H came back to you eventually?
        As for my case, when I backed off from him, he realised that and started to show some positive sign. Nowadays, he even is being jealous and does not like it when I meet some other male colleagues or collaborators. But who cares. I wanted to show him that I am still attractive and I can do what he does, well not that I actually did it.

    • TheFirstWife

      Amy. He is asking YOU to not ask HIM to make a decision that would make HIM feel bad – meaning he doesn’t want to give up anything or do anything where he cannot get his own way.

      Seriously he should have just said “I don’t stop seeing the OW”. Because that is in essence what he told you.

      Read up on the 180 U Turn. Google it.

      It will give you tips on how to move away from his infidelity. It is not designed to stop the A – but it can have that affect.

      At DDay2 I had enough and told my H I was D him (he had said he wanted a D for 6 months) and I decided to no longer live in limbo. He was still cheating with the OW.

      I no longer do his laundry and have not for 5 years. I don’t do his errands. I decided if we R I was not being the maid etc. I changed the dynamics in our M.

      I did it for me. I have less chores b/c I believe he was not appreciative so I stopped doing. He does it all on his own now.

    • Amy

      Hi Rose, FirstWife and Gina,

      Thank you for your useful comments. For some reason, I cant see your comments (even my posting in here) , hence I am responding here.

      It very hard and brain-straining – He was a good and responsible man and puts dedication to his family until one day I just found out he was constantly on text messages. He told me he was feeling depressed and out of sudden this OW came in his life through lots of meeting at work, conversation etc. Well, of course he said everything was superb about the OW and I was ‘an evil’ who was trying to stop his affair. It was really out of sudden when he complained that he has not been happy to me, some of the things he made up by saying that I have always argued with him, – no basis at all!.

      Nowadays, the tone seems to change a lot – but the fact that he still stays at that OW’s house for work reason is not logical at all.

    • Rose

      Amy…it was hard for me to face the truth about what went on with my H and I think you are having the same issue. He is NOT staying there for work. He is having sex with this OW twice a week. And you are allowing him to do this for the next 2 months at least? Also are you familiar with the expression “having your cake and eating it too”? Your H is a cake eater. He thinks he can have her AND you with no consequences.

      • Amy

        Hi Rose, indeed it is true he is trying to be on the safe side. By the way two few weeks we are going to his country to meet his family, so this OW will be on her own no sex (from him lol). That is why I was willing to give him until September, that is when we come back from the holiday. If in September things do not change, then I will leave him. (this was my decision and I clearly said to him). I have made up my mind to move abroad for work as well, unfortunately I cannot move in September due to the work notice requirment, so the earliest I may move job in in December/January. How I wished that I can just go in September.

        Yes, I heard about the expression “having you cake and eating it too” – this is what he is doing. He openly admitted that he love that OW but at the same time he loves his family, but he is stuck in the middle. He needs to clear his mess, but by looking at it, he isnt doing anything by keep doing the same thing every week.

    • TheFirstWife

      Amy. My H ended his A on DDay2. But it was a really terrible day b/c he walked in the door that day and out of the blue decided he wanted a D. Now three days earlier we saw our Marriage Counselor and he said that he was committed to the M and was very happy.

      Now at this point I thought we had reconciled and the A had been over for 5-6 months. The truth was the A was still going on.

      Later that evening – after seeing the MC on DDay2 and my H is adamant he wants a D, I finally had enough. He then says “oh sorry I changed my mind I really do not want a D”. Please take me back.

      He had done this same exact thing the week before. Wants a D and then changes his mind. And I willingly took him back.

      But now in DDay2 I’m not playing this game. He spent a whole day insisting he wants out. Out of the blue.

      So I find the OW’s phone number and call her. I don’t know why but I thought she might have an answer for me. We spoke for 3 minutes (no yelling or cursing but calm and rational). She told me the A had been on- going the last 6 months.

      I finally snapped. I was furious he played me and that I was doing everything to R but the A was still going on.

      So I confronted him and he admitted the A had been in-going but he had ended it a few hours ago. He decided he wanted the M. Not the A.

      Two days later I told him I was D him and he had to leave. He said he would not leave. So I called a friend to make arrangements for him to go there and stay until he found another place to live.

      Now in between all of this we had a very unexpected death in the family. It was horrible and my whole world was imploding. Plus kids and holiday time etc.

      So he had a temporary reprieve on the move out date. He needed to stay b/c emotionally I was having a rough time and he needed to be there for the children’s sake.

      And he used that opportunity to do everything he could to start making amends. I could see by his actions things were very different.

      But in my anger of being played (his A continuing while I thought we were Reconciling) I demanded a post-nup for even considering allowing him to stay.

      I needed to financially protect myself. And I was still furious at him. So I then did the 180!- which continues to this day.

      I no longer do his laundry, errands, ironing, cooking (exceot if for the whole family), banking or any of it. I am no longer his maid service. That is how it has been for 5 years – and it works for me.

      And he does not complain. Ever.

      He now knows he was given a gift to R this last time and he will not make any mistakes. I was a doormat for most of our M b/c I was just flexible and understanding. He worked hard. He deserved time to himself. I never complained about his extensive travel schedule or work hours when he had to work at 2 am due to the different time zones etc.

      I thought we were a team. I did everything I could to make his life easy for 25 years.

      Now it’s different. I took back my power and restored my self esteem and out my happiness first.

      I watched my husband do the pick me dance when I told him I was D him. He did it for years. So now he knows what it feels like except I did not have another guy. I just did not want him after what he did to me.

      Two different As. His last one he wanted a D. Two different DDays. His refusal to be respectful and call when he was going to be late. He waltzed in and out like he was single. He always told me where he was -,work dinner or meetings etc. but he would forget to tell me when his flights landed or meeting ended at 8 pm – he would show up at midnight. Oh yes thecteam decided to go for drinks – I forgot to tell you or forgot to call.

      And my “favorite” was the be home @ 12pm and show up @ 2 am. And no call. Ever. That conversation went on for 15 years until I stopped asking for a call. He would always say “I did not want to wake you”.

      So yes – at DDay2 – I finally snapped. My patience and tolerance was exhausted.

      So yes my threat of D rocked him to his core and he finally realized I was no longer playing. And for two years we faced every issue – including his lack of communication. And it has changed.

      And if it did not we would be D. And he knows it. There is no room for error.

      I outlined the D to him when I told him I was D him him and he was free to be with the OW. I no longer cared. Same way he was when he had one foot out the door.

      He was facing financial challenges paying for two households. I was not leaving until kids finished school. That was at least 6 years.

      He was facing being a part time dad. And my kids would never have contact w/the OW until they were older.

      His relationship w/OW would be limited due to his work schedule and seeing his kids on the weekends.

      His loss of friends – I know quite a few friends would no longer be available due to the wife. The OW was much younger and a millennial – covered in tattoos and lives a different lifestyle. my H now admits his core group of friends would not accept her.

      I now realize that his commitment to our M was not what my commitment was. Sobering thought.

      He is deeply ashamed for all of it. He wishes he could take it back. But the damage is done. We just have to pick up and repair what is broken and do better each day. And we do.

    • TheFirstWife

      Amy. Sorry for the long post.

      But here is a summary of a few things I learned:

      No one can stop the A exceot the CS. There is very little the BS can do. Talking or reasoning or being kind or loving – it doesn’t work. Falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

      The CS believes “infatuation” is true love and a connection.

      The CS will do almost anything to keep the A going – including financial devastation, facing STDs and deadly diseases, loss of family etc.

      The A ends only when the CS decides to end it – for whatever reason. Not a minute before.

      The CS will do whatever – and I mean whatever they need to do to keep the A going. Amy like your H staying two nights with the OW. Totally ridiculous and unacceptable behavior.

      My H told me he was going to decide in 2 months what he wanted to do – and let me know. Two days later it was a “her or me” showdown. Completely ridiculous behavior! But at the time it made sense to him. SMH still!

      I wonder how the CS would react if we (the BS) pulled any of this crap on them.

      Every person always needs to have a plan B. That is where I was caught off-guard. I did not have a back up plan. And my H was D me with two weeks notice (no joke). I found out about the A (which in his words was “nothing”) and 10 days later he is D me.

      Every person needs to have their own life. Separate and apart from the M. I had my own social circle of women all along – but I have expanded it. Like Rose taking up kayaking. Excellent choice. Smart move.

      • Tired

        Amy. I agree with the others on here. You can’t let your husband keep doing this. He IS cake eating. He has a wife and a girlfriend. How can you allow him to get away with this? It is disrespectful to you and it is also allowing him to sit on the fence. No wife should have to put up with this! It is disgusting behaviour. They can only justify it because you go along with it.

        I see how you mentioned you had gone out with other men, or something, This is the worst possible thing you could do if you want your husband back. I know you are angry, but this will only reinforce his ‘righteousness’ about what he is doing. After all, he will rationalise to himself that you are doing it too. Therefore what he is doing is ok. The fact that he caused that action in you will be lost on him. Men are very naive.

        He will keep doing this as long as you allow him to. Instil some real consequences. That is the only way he will wake up. Get a divorce lawyer. Move out, or get him out. In my experience, the only way they can see out of their stupid fantasy is when it starts to hit them hard in real terms. He will not see that as long as he still has the best of both worlds. Expose him to all your friends, and his.

        They only realise when they see the cold hard consequences of what they are doing. Be aware, when they come back and you haven’t been hard enough, they will still try to carry on the ‘friendship.’ So put it up on the table now, and save the heartache.

    • Rose

      Amy…get tested for STDs!!

    • Sarah P.

      Hi Amy,
      I had tried to post a long comment earlier but it didn’t post. I will re-create the essential ideas and I apologize for my frankness:

      1) You know the rules yourself about what will happen if you and your husband move to a Muslim country together, especially if he follows you to Saudi Arabia. The laws in Saudi Arabia are still extremely “primitive” from a Western viewpoint. If your husband followed you there and wanted a divorce, he would not be required to go to court. All he would have to do is make it known to everyone that “he divorces you in his heart” and that would dissolve the marriage. You would have no recourse if it happened there. It could be a very nightmarish situation. I found a Saudi blog about this earlier today and the author confirmed this still occurs.

      2) If you are both UK citizens, it could be very tricky if he announces a divorce in Saudi Arabia and then returns to the UK. It would be a legal and a cultural nightmare.

      3) If a Russian woman wants a visa and/or citizenship and has said this herself, she is not going to play fair. She will break all laws of human decency in order to break up your marriage, marry your husband, wait long enough to get citizenship, and then she will divorce him. When that happens he will crawl back to you. But what a nightmare to put your children through.

      Here is my opinion and this is NOT a substitute for professional advice:

      1) Get a female attorney in the UK who is not a Muslim and who knows your rights as a woman with citizenship in the UK. I believe this is necessary.

      2) It might be wise to stay in the UK until this is sorted out. I would not leave the UK but would instead bring your husband to see a non-Muslim marriage therapist in the UK.

      3) Get some kind of post marital contract drawn up in the UK.

      4) Start making friends with women outside the Muslim community.

      Now some are probably wondering why all this talk of making sure people who help are NOT Muslim?

      Well, it’s like this. I have had friends from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, and Algeria. (All very different cultures but they are also all Muslim cultures.) I know what my female friends were up against since typical Western values and the roles of Western women are diametrically opposed to the roles of Muslim women. I saw my Muslim friends trying to bridge two cultures that in many ways cannot be bridged. My personal fear for my female Muslim friends was that they were caught between two worlds and sometimes things did not go well for them.

      I have come to believe that if Muslim women have citizenship in a Western country like the UK and a marriage is in trouble, they need to stay in the UK and learn their legal rights as female citizens of the UK.

      I am not hating on Islam. Islam has many beautiful traditions. However, I am also aware that women in Islamic countries live radically different lives and do not have the protection of the law to ensure they are treated equitably if something goes wrong in their marriage.

      If a Muslim woman has UK citizenship I believe she should go to the secular UK law, secular UK therapists, and socialize with women who can reiterate her rights as a woman and a human being. I have had many Muslim female friends from different Muslim countries. I am a very “moral” Western woman. I do not believe in or agree with the craziness that has become the Western world. Westerners have become extremely immoral, selfish, self-centered, and do not care for family. These are very negative things.

      However, the Western world also has laws that protect women and give them equal rights to men. There are trade offs but at the end of the day, I accept flaws in Western culture because women have equal rights to men in all ways. This is extremely important so that women are not at the mercy of abusive husbands.

      It is my opinion, Amy, that you stay in the UK. Period. I would not take off for Saudi Arabia knowing what could go wrong. If you move to Saudi Arabia, that makes me fear for you because of the ambiguity that would occur in terms of your marriage.

      Russian women do not give up easily when it comes to wanting citizenship in Western Europe, Canada, or the United States. I have spent time in Russia. I would not want to live there either. However, there is no justification for using immoral ways to solve one’s alleged issues. But this is also a cultural thing. Some Americans refer to this type of Russian woman as a “Svetlana.” It’s a common Russian name, but it’s the name some Americans use for this group who is willing to break up marriages for wealth or citizenship. These types are also skilled manipulators. (Not all Russians, just these types.)

      Gosh I am just so judgmental, aren’t I?

      No, I am not judgmental. I have spent time in all kinds of different cultures and have had friends from every corner of the earth. I have listened to story after story.

      Amy, everything you do is up to you and again my opinion does not constitute professional advice. However, I still feel it is my duty to be absolutely honest with you so that you can think about your future. I want to ensure you find yourself in a position where you are empowered to make choices rather than living at the whims of an easy manipulated husband and his so-called mistress who will not give up easily. I want to make sure you and your children are okay.

      Big hugs,

    • Sarah P.

      I also wanted to say I am NOT anti-Muslim. All religions are welcome here. And if people don’t believe in God, they are welcome to. I do not judge people based on what religion they are and do not believe one way is better than the other. I have my way of worshiping God and hold no judgment in my heart for those who choose their way to worship God or not.

      If I could wave a magic wand, I would love to see Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, agnostics and atheists all here embracing one another.

      It would be my dream if we could one day set up a group of Muslim, Jewish and Christian women who embraced one another as sisters. That group would pave the way for peace in the Middle East. This is not a political or religious blog but I have always had the dream of creating a group of women from these three religions who banned together and paved the way for peace. The men have not been able to do this and what a beautiful thing if us women set aside our religious and political differences and stood together and showed a new way to relate to one another. I am in. Are there any other women out there reading who want to take a pledge of peace and sisterhood between these three religions? ❤️????????❤️
      I raise my hand. Will anyone stand with me?

      Sarah ????❤️????

    • TheFirstWife

      It would be nice if women took an oath of sisterhood and stopped being the OW in a M or relationship.

      Forget the religious aspect – it is for the good of all cultures and countries.

      Women need to stop poaching and being a cancer in another woman’s M.

      • Sarah P.

        Hello TheFirstWife,

        I hear you loud and clear and you are 100% right on this (just as you are on so many of these issues discussed on this blog.).

        Thank you for bringing this up as well. This is a topic I have wanted to talk about for SO LONG, but I have been afraid to offend people.

        Ever since I was a little kid, I watched everyone, listened to everything, and asked my parents questions.

        I remember being in second grade and we were out at a BBQ that the radio station my mom worked for was sponsoring. (She was the head of their sales team, not a DJ).

        She brought me and my dad around and introduced us to the station owner and his wife. The station owner was this smarmy, extremely tall, fast-talking man who appeared to be of American (Greek) descent. Many Greek families had settled in this area and I was always begging to go to their house for dinner. LOL. The wife of the station owner was very quiet and looked very ill at ease. I don’t even remember what she looked because she was so ill at ease, that’s all I saw.

        My mom introduced me and my dad to some of the other couples and their wives, and on and on. Then my mom brought me to meet these two women everyone referred to as “the two Debbies” because they were both named Debby/Debbie. Everyone laughed when someone made a joke about the Two Debbies. I found the joke both too obvious and offensive (even as a 2nd grader) to be funny. I did not get it. (Maybe it was because I could tell everyone was implying these two women were inter-changable?) How can a second grader know these things?

        Well, my mom had headed the feminist organization (the one called NOW) for her small, very conservative mountain town she lived in. She and her feminist friends had a march on Main Street and my mom took me in my stroller to the march (I was about 2) and she had me hold a giant NOW sign. At the time it made the front-page of the newspaper because the male reporters were so out-raged that she was single-handedly indoctrinating the next generation of women to know their rights. (How horrible of her!!) My mom has told me this story and I still laugh hysterically thinking about it because my mom did it intentionally to rile up the very conservative and sexist men of that town. (Note: My mom abandoned feminism years ago and is a conservative type who spends all her time at church). LOLZ!

        But, back to the story. My mom was full into her “I am going to conquer the world” career phase when she worked at the radio station and she would come home and tell me all about what idiot was doing what (by idiot I mean infidelity).

        It was sometime around 1979… and so, there we were at the park BBQ with the entire radio station staff (when I was in second grade) and there were no other kids. I resorted to people watching. The most obvious thing I noticed was that each of the Debbies looked similar and had the same hair style. One had gone platinum blond and the other had her natural brunette hair. The two Debbies wore stiletto heels and cocktail dresses to the afternoon park BBQ. (And I was there in what I considered “nice clothing,” which was my white, Izod t-shirt and my favorite khaki shorts and my blue tennis shoes and my very long hair which I had actually brushed that day because if I did not, my mom would get embarrassed.

        Eventually the wife of the station owner was sent off by her H to start ‘greeting’ the other employees. Once this happened, things got interesting. I was sitting there eating my chips and the station owner went over to blond Debbie. They started whispering and his hand was suddenly on the small of her back and then quickly settled square on her rump.

        Say what? (Or what I said at the time was, “Whatcha talkin’ about, Willis?”)

        That got my attention. Because the guy was married and I knew enough about the birds and the bees to know that married men did not rest their hands on the rumps of women other than their wives.

        Then the station owner straightened up and worked the crowd. Then he meandered over like a pervert river to Brunette Debbie. Brunette Debbie looked up at this man pleadingly, with her sad, doe eyes. He looked like he was begging her to do something and she was sniffling and crying and maybe he was begging for her to stop. He kept looking around to see if his wife was looking. Nope. She was not looking. Finally he hugged Brunette Debbie and during the hug the hand went briefly wandering. Then, he went back and worked the crowd.

        I was sitting there thinking most adults are crazy.

        During the ride home, I told my parents about the Debbies and the station owner’s wandering hands. My mom blandly announced that he had been having “affairs” with the two (single) Debbies for about 5 years on and off. I asked what that meant (in real detail) and my parents told me in real detail.

        I told them that was just about the most insane thing I had ever heard.

        And I still believe it.

        I have on a serious level thought about starting a petition on change.org.

        Not poaching the husbands/fiances/boyfriends of others?

        I took that oath a long time ago. I raise my hand and continue to pledge not to take the husbands of other women. (But, the thing is, men is relationships have always been very UN-attractive to me even when I was single.)

        My pledge of not poaching other women’s husbands extends to areas that most people never consider. I have noticed that married women have a game where they subtly try to flirt with the husband of another in order to assert some kind of sick power that they think they have. They tilt their heads, their flip their hair, they giggle, they touch a man’s arm and these are married women doing this to other married women most often in front of the wives themselves.

        I have figured out that these married women think they have some kind of power over a man if they can get him to flirt back in front of his own wife.

        But, really, that is no super power. What they are doing is the equivalent of dangling a kind of meat a lion has never had in front of a lion. The lion is going to check it out because that is what lions do. You get a lion to do what it does even when you are not around? That is not power. That is called PATHETIC.

        I have never played that game and never will. I don’t do that to men and I did not do it when I was single either. I was never a flirt like that even when single. I find it contrived and ridiculous. But, what do I know?

        Who else takes a pledge to STOP poaching husbands and being a cancer in another woman’s marriage?

        I take that pledge!

        Who Is with me?


    • Sarah P.

      PS- That was ambiguous:

      Who pledges to STOP poaching husbands because this act of poaching is equivalent to being a cancer in another woman’s marriage? Who pledges to stop poaching the husbands of other women and to stop poaching no matter what the circumstance?

      I take that pledge.

      I heard a terrible story yesterday. My H has a colleague who works both at (normal hospital) where my H works and also works at “General Hospital” as in the soap opera. There is a different hospital system around here that has a real name but I call it “General Hospital” because a happily married person starts working there and exits as a divorced person who was poached by a coworker.

      So this doctor who works at General Hospital has a wife he cannot leave alone…. she is young, maybe in her late 30’s. The doctor cannot leave her alone because she has some kind of scary degenerative disease and no one knows how long she will live. She needs 24/7 care. Not a good prognosis.

      I very seriously asked my husband if he could ask the guy if I could contact the wife and get a prayer chain going. They have exhausted what medicine can do for her and prayer does not hurt. When I hear of such situations I kick myself if I have not stepped in and at least offered prayer.

      But, that was not my point. I picture this doctor with the ill wife walking into his job at “General Hospital” and all these nurses around him secretly licking their chops, taking notes, and figuring out the exact time they should start making their move to “groom” him so that when his young wife passes away, they will be officially on his arm at the funeral.

      By the way, this particular doctor is NOT like that. He is fully dedicated to his wife. Some doctors are less moral. Not this guy- he sees his wife and his wife alone.

      And of course, that makes him an even better poach for spouse poachers because she will poach someone loyal. I can picture all this in my mind because it is a hospital filled only with Nasty Nurses. All the Nasty Nurses in my area go to work there because everyone knows if you want to break up a marriage, you go and work at “General Hospital.”

      I am heart sick. In fact, I need to actually sign off for the day because I am so heart sick over the latest turn of events with this doctor’s wife– that is she was stable, but took an irreversible turn. I am beside myself with anger and rage because she was supposed to live a long life with her husband. And I know there are probably 30 different nurses marking their calendars and taking notes on when to move in. Watching these real-life horror shows is so bad, I think I need to see my own therapist!! (Quite seriously).


    • Tired

      It is a nice thought Sarah. But it won’t work. Women will still try to poach husbands as long as the day is long. It seems inherent in some women’s nature. Equally, i doubt a petition for men would work either, because they are completely clueless. All we can do is hope there is enough love to stop them leaving us.

      • Sarah P.

        Hi Tired,

        Here is a long comment….

        I agree that we can hope there is enough love and I have tried to cultivate that in my marriage. But, I have also sadly learned that there is no way to affair-proof a marriage as long as there are spouse poachers. I do my best and hope for the best.

        However, I have been wanting to bring up “the elephant in the room” for quite some time. The elephant in the room = the women who very intentionally poach married men. Married men are half the problem, but often times clueless, as you mentioned.

        So, here is a statement I am going to make and I want to hear what other married women think. Here it is:

        There can be no sisterhood until women decide on a large scale to stop hurting one another.

        And this “hurting” that women do to one another can take many forms even outside of spouse poaching. A woman hurting another woman can be done through:

        -Spouse poaching

        -Intentionally spreading lies about and intentionally sabotaging the work of another female coworker

        -Intentionally setting up other women to fail at work in order to gain a promotion

        -Being part of a group of women where some of the women single out another woman and all the women freeze her out. (The freezing out is not based on something the target/victim did. The freezing out is based on the insecurity, envy or small-mindedness of the other women in the group.)

        -Being petty and small to nice women

        -When one woman wants everything for herself and instead of working hard for it, she sabotages all the women around her or sleeps with the supervisors to get ahead. She refuses to cooperate and be a “team player.” She sees all other women as enemies (even when they are not) because the company only has room for one woman– and that would be her.

        -When other women support the female bully of the group because they are too intimidated to stand up to the bully. So let let an innocent victim suffer.

        -When female victims are blamed for whatever happened to them by the other women in the group.

        I started writing a piece on the subtle blame-shifting that still occurs between women when a married woman has been the victim of the affair. I keep finding age-old assumptions that I have been relying upon and I recently uncovered another age-old assumption that most of us women make and it’s a big one. Even though it was obvious and so huge, it was ingrained as truth in my own thinking, even though it is not the truth at all. I will be writing a post about this age-old assumption that most of us (including me) take for granted and will be piecing part why this assumption is completely incorrect and needs to go.

        I have also discovered that we use these age-old assumptions as a way to set up a false sense of security in our minds. This is not the thing I will be writing a blog about, but it fits into this category. For example, if a woman in middle-age is left for a woman 15 years younger, I have often heard how she is talked about socially when she is not around. A group of women might be sitting around talking about that woman’s divorce (when the woman is not there.) They might say things like:

        -“Well, she didn’t watch her waist line, did she.”

        -“She did not take hormone replacement therapy to keep a healthy libido.”

        -“She did not get the trendy clothing or trendy haircut. No one wants a dowdy wife.”

        -“When she and her H were at parties, she could have tried a little harder to wear trendy clothing and flirt with her husband so that he knew he was desirable.”

        -“She should not have been a stay-at-home mom.”


        -“She should not have been a career woman.”

        -“She should have gotten a facelift.”


        -“Her facelift looked terrible.”

        All of these things are a type of victim blaming, but I think women do it in general to feel safe. They talk themselves into why another woman’s husband cheated on her and why they are not that woman and so they are safe. (They are not safe at all).

        But, it subtly reinforces victim-blaming and plays right into the narrative that if a husband wanders, that is the wife’s fault.

        I know this is all off-topic.

        A long time ago I remember my ex making an observation about the women in France. Both of us had been in longterm relationships with French people (and broke up with them) before we met each other. (We were both single and we had both come off of longterm relationships with French people who we had thought about marrying.) I remember him making a statement about his ex French girlfriend. He said: “French women know how to keep their husbands at home. If one woman tries to seduce him, she will take his attention back by being even more seductive.”

        Well, what he was describing was the French version of Chump Lady’s “Pick Me Dance.”
        At the time when he said that, I took a mental note where I realized I had to be ‘the ultimate woman” for him. And I tried and attempted to excel in all areas.

        After he broke it off, I had to see a therapist for the first time in my life. I had avoided therapy and had avoided depression and had avoided trauma up until that point. I gave the female therapist (who had been practicing for 30 years) a very detailed description of what being “the ultimate woman” entailed and she dropped her clipboard. She said, “Seriously? You did that? That is not a joke?” I looked at her and said, “NO, that is not a joke. That was how I was with him in my quest to being the ultimate woman.” The therapist said, “I have never in 30 years heard of a man leaving a woman like you.” And I told her that was one of the fundamental issues– I did everything in my power, including learning to cater to men’s needs in every area, and I still failed.

        The therapist had NO answer because she had always been coaching her female clients to do all those things I had done. She had never heard of these things failing. I assumed they would not either.

        And this is one of the reasons I know that a woman can literally become ‘perfect’ in ways that most men would consider someone perfect. But, that does not guarantee a man will stay at home.

        I was with the most “well fed” and “well loved” lion (Leo on his horoscope) and I went out of my way to ensure he had everything. It did not work. It failed EPICALLY.

        And this is one of the reasons I know that a woman cannot make a man cheat or make him un-cheat. If that were true– if women had that ability– my ex never would have cheated let alone participate in such cruelty.

        It doesn’t matter if a woman is Miss Universe.

        A man is completely responsible for infidelity right along with the other woman.

        However, if a woman has any faults, a cheater will magnify them, blow them out of proportion, and play a mind game to make his wife believe she drove him to cheat.

        Nope. Not possible. It’s an excuse cheaters use to make themselves look like victims. (This applies to female cheaters too…)

        I am still trying to figure out how my ex had the stamina, the time, or the inclination to go with that skank.


    • Lou

      I don’t believe in “spouse poachers”. Happily married men who don’t make themselves available are simply not available. When you are happy and in love you aren’t able to be “poached”.

      I really believe that whoever we marry and when we take those vows we need to mean them and stand by them. My ex had an affair and as much as I knew his AP was attracted to him – I would notice things here or there- I 100% expected him to behave appropriately. When I found out he cheated It devastated me but I don’t want to be with someone who can be “poached”. I want to be with someone who is as happy with me as I am with them. I don’t have eyes for anyone else no matter how hard they try. That’s what I expect in a partner.

      The truth is if you don’t have a partner who is as dedicated to you as you are to them then women who turn on their charms may be an issue, Emotional connections may be an issue, texting or inappropriate behavior at times may be an issue. I for one am not going to work to be perfect in every way just so I can try my best to keep my husband away from someone trying to take him. That’s too exhausting and affairs are zero reflection on the behavior of the betrayed spouse.

      Bottom line is there is no way to prevent an affair (in my opinion). The only way to prevent It is to have a spouse who wants to stay in a marriage through think and thin, who communicates when issues arise, who stands by their word and vows and who is unapproachable. You can put that type of spouse in any situation and It wouldn’t matter.

    • TheFirstWife

      Lou. I agree and this is an excellent point.

    • E

      Hi Everyone,

      You know I know this topic well considering my husband and his mistress had a child together. The ironic part is that while she was pregnant I was too and the boys are about 2 months part. They both lied to these kids and now they are teenagers who were raised thinking they were cousins and weren’t. They are more best friends then anything. Did my husband leave for her. No…. However, I have heard the stupidest reasons for her staying around and they were because she was pregnant and it was for the baby.
      Really? for the baby so that he has a warped view of family, marriage, relationships. The lies are really something that even a 15 year old boys sees is morally wrong. However, having the teenagers involved really places boundaries on the relation as co-parents and that is strained between them because when d-day happened she wanted to run and hide and decided that since she wanted to work and work all the time her 12-13 year at the time spent more time with our family and less with her. I have issues plain a simple with her. I hate her for the lies…. Lying to children about who they are and where they come from is far worse and especially when you use them to continue the lies of an affair. The emotions that are felt….. The children have more pain… Anxiety, my son also attempted suicide over the summer and is in intensive therapy now still. It’s a nightmare all because someone couldn’t bare to lose the affair and thought poaching was wise. Do I think she wanted that? yes, even after I’ve heard all the other crap involved. Problem is that he wasn’t wanting to lose everything and wasn’t wanting to give her more than the affair.

      Things along this journey I have found. This boys is beautiful, I have huge teaching moments with my husband’s son that he will never get from his own mother which gives me a gift and purpose. I love him as if he was my own. Is there pain—- Yes, every damn March 4th. He knows that it is a trigger date and I told him that I want to celebrate his life more this next March and not cry about it. Healing from pain is the hardest. Do I think a woman should use a child as justification for stupid lies and actions. No, I think this boy would have been happier with a full time father not a part time father and a full time mother with morals, and priorities that show she is wanting to be a mother.

      Word advice to a woman who is pregnant with her married lover’s child. If your idea is to take the place of the wife, it will only end in pain. Stop thinking about yourself for once and think about the future of the child you carry, and the children he may already have with the current family that he has that you are not a part of. It’s not a place that is easy, it’s difficult and painful and you will regret more than what you already do and even if you poach the husband. He will do the same to you as he did to his wife or it will end and not be a happy ending. Statistics show it.

    • Sienna

      I’m so glad I have read this article I am in this situation as we speak and it has been one of the hardest things in my life I’ve had to go through….it all started when me and my spouse were going through a very difficult time he was constantly traveling for work leaving me to care for our little ones at home alone . I started to become so suspicious of this one woman who he had recently met mind you she was younger than us she was a single mom on her own as well . When I first had suspected something was going on I had messaged the other woman to ask her of anything was going on between her and my spouse she replied and said no there isn’t I told her we had a family a home we built everything together . She had then replied and said she was going to keep her distance from him as she didn’t know he was a taken man. Time went on he travelled back to work passwords were being changed I had the worst feeling in my stomach that something was going on while I would be working and taking care of our children and then it happened I seen a photo of her wearing his sweater I got him for Christmas having hickeys all over her neck I was so heartbroken I drove to the town to confront him and only him of what he was doing behind my back to my surprise she was with him she ran as fast as she could away from the confrontation. It was only supposed to be a conversation between him and I for me to find out the truth and I sure did. I was so heartbroken at what I had come to find out . A week went by she put a restraining order on me and was laughing about everything she had done to me behind my back literally laughing at all the hurt she was putting me through for her to know about our relationship and our family and to continue to go behind my back was so hurtful I cried so much I had to watch my children alone while my heart was so broken a month went on my spouse realized what he had done to me. He had tried to make it right we took it slow and talked about everything where things went wrong and why it went as far as it did . She then sent him a message that she was pregnant my heart sank what was this girls intentions why was this happening to me and my children I have never prayed so much in my life for strength as I do now. She constantly begged him to be with her saying she was so in love with him saying how she would keep it quiet behind my back . She just will not give up on him she makes countless profiles parading her love for him. Now for my spouse as he seen the hurt he caused to me and my children its like something snapped in him he is constantly making it up to me putting us above anything else he quit that job to move to a different job where he can be at home every night here’s where it gets even more tangled I’m pregnant with our 4th child I had no idea she was also pregnant when I had found out it was the worst situations to be put in . Now she’s wanting to take him to court for child support she has a restraining order on me . Why is this person doing this to me ?? Was I wrong to forgive him and to save my family I know he is truly sorry for his actions as he has tried to make it up to us every day and still does what does this OW want out of him why won’t she leave us alone. Reading the article about how the wives had forgiveness to his other child being born and I’m not sure I can except this child into my life I’m so confused and lost it hurts a lot with my baby being born and hers their only gonna be months apart everything we have together she is going to take him to court for. I feel as if she is winning and she is succeeding at ruining our family as I have no trust what so ever in my spouse I feel stuck in a situation that should have been avoided

    • E

      Hi Sienna,

      I feel your pain. The situation is a tough one. Have you been seeing a therapist because if you haven’t I would encourage you to see especially because working through the stress and emotions are difficult alone. I still see my therapist often because the insecurities are great and affairs have long lasting emotional pain that even with working on the marriage can be a strain. The journey will be tired and exhausting and also eye opening to things.

      When he is dealing with her taking him to court and using the child as a pawn for revenge he sees the truth of the person that you don’t want to be. This is part of why I accepted the child into my life, because I didn’t want to hate the child for what his parents did, I wanted to love the child for what I can bring to that child’s life.

      Why is she there? Who really know except for her.

      With my story it’s painful. My kids were teenagers and my son was 12 as he discovered the affair on a video downloaded to his phone accidentally from the server at home as he was playing a children’s game. My H’s son was known to him as his cousin at the time not his brother. The truth was gut wrenching and my son to this day is punishing himself for something that isn’t his fault….. He’s 15 now. The affair has great consequences that only years from now I will understand the full ramifications of. Do I hate the OW. Yes, very much. Do I want to talk to her again? No, not unless I have to by force. Is my H’s affair over. Yes, because in the aftermath he learned who she really is and used the child as a pawn to get what she wanted and revenge for ending it. have I forgiven my H? Yes, I did and do everyday. There are somethings within the affair and the story I am still working on forgiving which involves the initials lies that started everything.

      My son and his brother are a couple months apart. My first reaction when I found out the truth was anger towards everything including someone who was innocent and that was the child. It’s a hard bunch of emotions especially when you have already been in the child’s life under a lie that was extremely damaging to not only your own children but for him as well. Shame is a horrible thing because on one side you are thinking you can’t accept this child? The other is what kind of person are you being? I chose to be the person that can make a difference to someone that I loved because he didn’t know, he didn’t ask for things, and I can be a better teacher for other things in his life with purpose. This is the thing that also made my husband choose to stay and work on the marriage.

      In my journey I learned that love is a great power and forgiveness happens daily not just one time. You need to take care of your baby and worry about your health and pregnancy. Self care goes a long way with everything.


    • Sarah P.

      Hello E and Sienna,

      I am so sorry for both of you. E you are further along in your journey and have much needed perspective. Sienna, I am so sorry for what you are going through.

      Sienna and E, I hope you are able to share thoughts in this comments section and if anyone else has something to say to Sienna, please let her know.

      Sienna, here are some things you can do now if you have not done them:

      -Join a large church: they often offer FREE pastoral counseling and sometimes have reduced or free daycare. You need to speak with a counselor and need a break from your children so that you can develop a plan. (That is why I recommended daycare). You need just enough time alone to make phone calls to attorneys, to friends, and to do whatever else you need to do.

      -That baby may NOT be your husband’s baby. Even if it is, it is essential that he cuts all contact with the OW. If it is his baby, he will be writing a child support check to her each month, but he has no other legal obligation to her. (Right now, he must cut all contact. Period. If he is named on the birth certificate, hire an attorney and the attorney can arrange for a DNA test).

      -Call the courthouse and ask how to contest the restraining order. Also, it might be wise to tell your husband to get a retraining order against the OW. She should not be near him.

      -Call and attorney who gives free consultations: find out what rights you have and ask the attorney what laws are present in your state that benefit you and your children.

      -Consider moving to a state where you can sue the other woman for alienation of affection.

      -Talk to friends and family members you can trust.


      Sienna, I have not been through this experience and can only imagine the heartbreak. I can imagine its the kind of heartbreak that can level a woman. But, don’t let that happen.

      E, you gave wonderful advice to Sienna. Do you have anything else to say to her in terms of how to deal with this on a day-to-day basis? What got your through the situation during the early days? Did you have friends to speak with? E, can you tell Sienna how you dealt with this on a day to day basis?

      Thank you,

    • E

      Early days….. Omg, if I have regrets it would be that first 8-9 months of rage, and mass triggers along with many other things to get revenge. Revengeful words, actions are not helpful. You’re best revenge is going to be love even though it seems opposite of what you want immediately.

      In first 9 months I wanted to make both the OW and my H pay and my advice is stop talking to her. Block contact, if he is wanting you and 4 children and more complex legal drama divorce is he will stop contact and get a lawyer and pay child support and accept the consequences of having visitation even if it’s super complicated. If you’re not in MC or seeking help with a pastor or clergy to work through things I suggest this because when the OW gives birth she’s going to want more.

      With my situation the lies had the OW living in my home under lies that kept a long term affair going. I live in a state where I can sue for alienation of affection which if you do is such a big tool in the toolbox because the minor pay looks really good for child support. The courts won’t give mass amounts of child support based on the amount of children also because you have more with him and depending on the income the amount of children really impacts what she will get. Get advice from an attorney. I did.

      Day to day is still complicated even after 2.5 years. There is no contact now. All money and concerns are addressed in court. My H’s son is at my house more often because he’s almost 16. However, my husband chose to be a part time father for him because it was the better choice especially because the first year she denied him visitation and it was complicated with me too due to my own emotional instability which my advice is…. please seek your own private therapist. One who specializes in trauma and affairs. I have deep insecurities now with my ability to be a mother and struggle with my confidence in the connection I have with my children. The affair, having a child with the OW etc is just a painful situation.

      In this journey I learned about taking care of myself. I can only imagine being pregnant now and having the stress anxiety and uncertainty in my relationships and not knowing what to do. Your unborn child is important and you need to take care of you so that child feels the love that you have for them. You can’t change anything about the past, it happened. You can change the outcome of your well-being and that is part of the journey.


    • E

      Also Sienna,

      I won’t judge your situation…. Mine is complicated and delicate and there is nothing wrong with being angry. Talking about my whole story is still something that I don’t do often now because I see that others have just as crazy stories and it’s about taking everything moment by moment and day by day.

      Telling someone to accept the child is like telling someone to stick a thousand needles in there eye and expect the pain not to be there. I know this because I have felt that before. However, in my journey I would rather get a hug from a 15 year old boy because he knows I am always there for him instead of the pain of knowing that he doesn’t feel loved and decides to drift to other means to hurt himself because of it.

      Things you can do now……

      It’s quite early for you in the recovery. The trust is hard to build and the boundaries have not yet be set for you with your spouse. This was something done with mine in MC. It was hard at first because he was desperate to be a part of his son’s life and was willing to unhinge things because he felt that he could drift far into the boundaries. That changed fast because I told him that I was done and if he wanted to have that he couldn’t keep me. I wouldn’t recommend that for anyone and yes I was staring at divorce papers at the time ready to sign.
      Boundaries and no contact. These are the keys to starting the recovery process. Boundaries include passwords, closing social media, cell phone, and when a child is involved you have to see how the whole idea of visitation and custody works. in your situation i would look into a third party meeting place so that they can’t meet alone and specific hours if the visitation is granted or look at having the child part of the year like holidays and summer. It’s not going to be easy and you have to do things that place boundaries that make you feel safe.

      I don’t share an account with my husband, it’s not that I don’t know where his money is it’s because I don’t want to write the check for child support. It’s a no go for me. I don’t want to feel like I am giving her more than I already did and I keep it because even though we are working on things I need my own money for my own stuff. It’s not for everyone and some of the boundaries are part of keeping things feeling safe.

      Boundaries for us were that I am not going to her home and she does not come to mine. It was part of the mediation for the visitation.

      These things are not for everyone. It’s not like a divorce and not like what you think because one moment your now a step mother and you don’t know what your suppose to do because your not the step mother. it can be confusing, thus the boundaries.

      so….. let me know if you want more insight and advice…. I won’t tell you that your feelings are wrong, i may give a different insight or perspective.


    • K

      I am so glad I found this article this morning. This past Saturday my husband told me that he had slept with another woman twice and that she is now saying that she is pregnant with his baby.

      Our marriage had taken a rocky turn last December and he had told me that he wasn’t happy. He was working all the time, hanging out with these men that he worked with and was completely changing. I was heartbroken because up until then he had never mentioned being unhappy or things bothering him in our marriage. It was a roller coaster from there and was constantly up & down. I turned to my in laws for help because I was so desperate to keep my family and to figure what I could do to help things. They immediately were telling me all these things to do and things that he was “supposedly” doing and they had no idea that we were having issues until I spoke to them about it. I had asked him to leave a couple times because he was staying out late and not being present and when I would ask him what he wanted he could never tell me. Come to find out they were going to him behind my back and telling him the complete opposite of what they told me. They were turning us against one another and saying that I said things that they had told me and vice versus with him as well. I realized what a fool I was for thinking they cared about me and our marriage. Eventually we kept working on things and our marriage finally seemed like it was getting back on track and things were good and then he told me about this. I honestly had suspected him of being with someone else but I never ever thought he would tell me that she thought she was having his baby.

      My heart isabsolutely crushed. I didn’t ever think I would be in a situation like this and I honestly wanted to die that day. We have two children and the thought of this baby being his makes me want to be sick. He told me that one of the nights after I had asked him to leave he went and got drunk and had sex with her and then said that she threatened to tell me about it unless he would do it again. So he got drunk another night and did it. He said she told him she was on birth control but then said she’s pregnant. I asked him if he was sure and he said all he has to go on right now is her word but has heard that she was with 2 others at that time as well.

      He told me that it was only those 2 times and that he would do whatever to make it right and didn’t want to lose our family. He went to a lawyer to see what he needed to do and is going to get a DNA test for sure. I do love him and I don’t want our family to be split up and I honestly feel stupid for feeling that way. I have so many emotions running through my head and it has absolutely killed me. I told him that the only way I know to work through this is counseling and he said he would go so I am going to get an appt. I just feel like this is such a mess and it’s so hard to see that their will be a light at the end.

      I will gladly take any advice and help that you all have on here. I am just trying to take it day by day and be there for my kids.

      • Gina

        Hi K,
        I am so sorry that you are here with us. I understand your pain and utter disbelief. I have used the pain to transform and he has also. The affair was from wrongs on both sides and we are now healing. The baby turned 3 in Sept and i have accepted him. My H and I live apart so we can heal and grow, but I am with them every weekend he has him. It was an emotional affair and so the attachment was intense. It just finally ended on both sides and there is grief and sadness. We have become best friends again, and that the best start we can have. I’m not sure what will happen, but just know that it is possible to continue this marriage. I’m going to refer you Marriage Helper, Joe Beam has great information about why it happened. If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask.

    • E

      Hi K,

      I’ve been where you are right now. It’s rough, hard, painful experience that I still go through. It’s been almost 3 years since I found out about my H’s affair, the truth of his son with her and having to find myself again in the chaos. Somedays it’s excruciating and somedays are surprising and you learn more about what things are important. I used to be angry. There anger still comes, the sorrow is still deeply in my heart and I’ve wanted to die multiple times.
      When I look back to 3 years ago I never realized that my marriage was unhappy. I also love my husband and having deep love means that I had to accept him for all the flaws, even the horrible lies which some days even now I struggle with.

      You’re not alone, it’s a hard journey. The innocent child is complicated emotional struggle that can go either way. I know it’s difficult and I also believe you are a strong woman.
      If you’re not seeing a therapist, definitely do that because the journey is really hard and my therapist has helped so much with working through the vast emotions that come with this painful journey you’re on.

      I’m a friend.


    • K

      Thank you all so much for your support and advice. I am currently looking for a therapist in my area because I know it’s the only way I’m going to be able to cope with this. I find myself hoping this is a bad dream I can wake up from. I never in a million years would have thought I would be in this situation and facing something that is so big.

      I have begged God over and over to let tnghis baby be someone else’s because I feel like I don’t know how I will be able to handle it otherwise. I have been wanting another baby for sometime and my husband and I had discussed it and decided we weren’t ready at this time and I feel like she is getting that. That she is getting the baby that I wanted to have. I have been looking back into my life the last few days trying to figure out where I went wrong and what I did or could’ve done differently to prevent this from happening.

      I have struggled with a lot of things for my entire life and had a damaging relationship with my dad growing up and I have transferred the way he made me feel into every other relationship in my life. And even in this situation that I know I did not do I find myself blaming myself for this happening. I am just really struggling with so much and I am looking forward to finding a therapist and talking about it all.

      I am so thankful I found a space where I can share my feelings and situation without judgement and can get insight from others who have been where I am. Thank you all again

      • Shifting Impressions

        You are NOT to blame for your husband’s poor choices!!! None of us had “perfect” marriages or were “perfect” partners before our partners made the choice to betray us.

        I’m glad you are looking for a therapist….but should the therapist or anyone else cast even the slightest bit blame at you….run and find a different therapist. Find a therapist that is willing to deal with the betrayal, rather than just give you ways to “fix” the marriage.

      • Gina

        the other woman had the baby that I wanted with my husband also…so I embraced that baby and now he is part of me.

    • E


      It’s a rough journey. I’m sorry you’re going through it. I too felt shell shocked at the discovery of 15-16 year lies, deceit and just manipulation. for months I thought it was a dream and needed to wake up from it. I actually cut my wrists 2 years ago to check if I actually had blood in my veins. I don’t recommend it because usually it means there’s more you need to work on.

      With the child. It’s complicated, I had my tubes tied after my son was born, I did it because of dealing with immigration and I thought it was the right thing to do and regretted it because I wanted a 3rd child. The shock of my husband already having another child with the OW was overwhelming because it’s a stab in the heart that can’t be undone.
      I’ve been in therapy for 2 years, I will be seeing her indefinitely because some days I can’t handle my emotions, my memories, and it’s pretty painful and tough.

      I learned that love, kindness and forgiveness go a long way. I also learned it’s about going at your own pace not what the articles or books say. Marriage after an affair gets complicated and a little more work when a baby or child from the OW is involved. I also learned to self care… you have to learn to care for you or it’s harder to handle all the other things and emotions.

    • K

      Hey you guys.

      I got some news today that I was not prepared to get and I feel so helpless. My husband told me that this baby is being born tomorrow and I wasn’t expecting it at all. I don’t know how to feel, how to act, or how to cope with this. I have cried until I feel like my tears have all been used. I want so bad for this child to not be his and I feel selfish at the same time for feeling this way since he didn’t ask to be brought into this. I have told my husband to make sure to get a dna test ASAP so we can know for sure if the child is his and it doesn’t feel real even saying that.

      I appreciate your all’s advice and kind thoughts. They have helped me so much and helped me feel like I’m not alone. I would appreciate any good thoughts or prayers you can send my way. I feel so weak and I need strength for my kids. I am trying not to let my feelings show in front of them. Thank you all again.

      • Sarah P.

        Hello K,

        I wanted to step in personally. I am sorry that you are going through a situation that is truly the stuff of nightmares for all the wives out there.

        The first thing you need to know is you are not alone.

        Note to all readers… if you are IN this same situation or know someone who was or is in K’s situation, would you please respond to this thread, even if you have not commented before.

        I have said this before, but I will say it again. Even though this is a massive website, there are only three of us who run it. We have no assistants, we don’t farm out administrative tasks, we write all our programs, and when one if us responds, you are hearing directly FROM us and not from a publicist hired to answer comments. In other words, this is as authentic as it gets. All three of us (Doug, Linda, me) split tasks– literally.

        So, when one of us steps in, you are hearing from us (the actual person) behind the site directly.

        I like to think of this site as one big family of people who are at different stages in their journey, but who are here to help people going through a wife variety of situations, even serious ones.

        So how can we step forward and help K? K needs us to rally around her right now. Behind each screen name there is a real human being going through real struggles. We may not know each other, but we are still all humans who shed tears and have struggles.

        Does anyone have words of wisdom?

        K, here is what I have to say:

        1) Require a DNA test and be there throughout the process

        2) Talk to an attorney who provides a free consult about YOUR rights in this situation. Also, if the child is your husband’s, ask about what he is legally required to do and how it affects you and your family.

        3) Your husband may have made some absolutely insanely stupid, selfish, idiotic, and crazy decisions, however, you MUST remember that for all his stupid decisions you have choices. There are many things you can do, boundaries you can set, and boundaries you can enforce. If a boundary is broken, you can enforce a consequence.

        Most of all, I need to make an extremely important point about the psychology of infidelity. The number one tactic of a wayward spouse is to intentionally make a betrayed spouse feel as if they have no choices. Many (not all) wayward spouses want to make a betrayed spouse feel like a metaphorical jelly fish who is carried wherever the ocean currents take it.

        Big HUGS and love to you, K,


    • Sarah P.

      PS- We help people go through a wide variety of situations… not ‘wife variety.’ LOL. The D and the F are next to each other on my keyboard and sometimes I don’t catch typos.

    • E


      Breathe….. just keep breathing… I know it’s a lot all at once….. you can this and the most important thing you can learn is breathe…. today I would take a bubble bath, I would cry just like you. Yet you can do this…. because you are a strong power woman and right you don’t feel strong but you are. Just breathe tonight.

    • Sarah P.


      E is absolutely right. Learning how to breathe correctly actually calms the nervous system.

      There are also other natural ways to stay calm. Some people believe in “chakras,” which are energy centers within the body. I believe there is something to it, but have not studied it in depth. What I have studied in depth are sacred sounds and how they affect the body positively. There is solid research behind using sacred tones for healing stress. Here is a link to a video using sacred tones to heal the heart chakra. Does it work? I do not know. However, I would recommend laying down alone, covering your eyes, and listening to the music. It is music without narration using sacred tones. Such videos help me reduce stress, especially if I am intentionally taking deep, rhythmic breaths while listening to the music. It does cause my body to feel more relaxed and grounded, so that really is a plus. I hope it helps you. If you believe in God, please reach out to God or a higher power via prayer. As I have said before, I am an extremely spiritual person and I study a combination of Christianity, Judaism, and some Buddhism, but everyone is welcome here whether they believe in God or not. However for those who do believe in God, always feel free to email me and I can send you ideas on how to pray.

      Here is the music.


      Big hugs,

    • E

      Hey Sarah,

      My therapist told me they did studies on tones and music and highly creative people respond to tones and music. During my last 2-3 years I’ve learned that tones, chimes and chirping birds relax me. Since I have so much trauma due to the affair I often prefer silence because music can be a trigger and too much noise and activity can cause anxiety attacks so breathing and soft tones or something to grasp and focus on helps to be grounded.


      Just keep breathing. We are with you.


    • K

      Thank you so much Sarah and E. I couldn’t sleep last night or eat as my stomach was turning. As I was taking my daughter to school it was all I could do to hold back tears. My husband went to a lawyer and asked him what he needed to do in the situation and he told him that in our state if he doesn’t go to the hospital at all when they baby is born and it does turn out to be his that that can be held against him in the future. So he is planning on working then going when he gets off of work and thinking about it makes me wanna be sick. I have so much anger towards the OW even though I know my husband took part as well. I just can’t help but wonder if she did this on purpose. I am really struggling today and praying my heart out for strength. Please send any prayers you know my way that may help me.

      I know I may be commenting on here a lot but I feel like I don’t have anywhere else to go right now. Thank you all again for your support. I am so thankful that even though I’m going through this situation that I found a place like this. I am doing my best and taking every day a day at a time. We are supposed to be celebrating our 6th anniversary this weekend and I feel like there is nothing to celebrate. I am the type of person that loves to celebrate any birthday, holiday, or special occasion but I honestly wish I could just skip that day this year. My heart is so broken and hurting this morning. Please keep my in your thoughts and prayers through out the day.


      • E


        I still feel anger for the OW. This is something that in my journey and with this blog and all the reading etc that I have learned isn’t abnormal. I do still hate the OW. I don’t think that going through this pain and life journey that you won’t feel that disgust, anger and many other things especially knowing a baby is part of it. There is the obsession factor that will tear you apart and learning good coping skills and how to relax is a great part in overcoming most of that.

        I’ve had almost 3 years to work through some things. Granted I still have great issues and pain and cried yesterday myself because of deep insecurities about my own ability to be a mother and wife.

        The best thing I will advise is to maintain no contact with her and same with your H, even if the DNA says it’s his that will be something that you will have to work through with your H with courts and lawyers etc. and it’s best to also have that 3rd party therapist to help you with working on things.
        When I found my therapist I looked for one that specialized in infidelity, grief, and PTSD. She also deals with trauma and eating disorders because when D-day happened I stopped eating and lost 80 lbs. Eating now is a great struggle for me because my stomach can’t take it and there is a lot more involved due to the trauma of the affair. It really took a part of me that no longer exists and the person I once was is gone. I had to rebuild so much and I can tell you it’s hard and some days can be worse than others. Defiantly look at articles about PTID which has similar symptoms of PTSD.

        This time of year is really tough so my heart is with you. I also have great distress around the holidays and guess what that is why this blog is helpful.

        I struggle deeply with holidays, random trigger days and many things that over the last couple years have gotten better yet something hits me when I least expect it. You are not a lone.

        Breathing, self care like eating crackers and soup and go on a run or walk to help give some endorphins.

        You can do it. We are here.


    • K


      Thank you for being so open with your journey. It is helping me keep a somewhat level head dealing with this. I have went through so many emotions over the past few days that I don’t know what to feel and I sometimes let all the thoughts that come to my mind bother me so bad even though I know some aren’t true but it’s hard not to have them and let them affect you.

      I have stuff to get done around my house but I have had almost zero motivation to want to do anything this week. I tend to shut down and it effects everything and I just feel like I can’t do anything. I know it would probably help me to keep busy though.

      All I can think about though is her having that baby right now and the possibility of my husband having another son. I just am so angry and have asked God “why me” all morning. What have I done to deserve this and to have to go through this. I just don’t understand and I think that’s what bothers me the most is the question why.


    • E


      Hey, my advice is actually you don’t have to do anything around the house. You have your little ones to care for and yourself to take care of and motivation is part of something that it’s okay not to have. Dealing with all the emotions is a tough thing and guess what I still 3 years later do it. Motivation to wash dishes is okay. Yet we are human and it’s okay to stare at them too today.

      Set some goals today. They don’t have to be big ones. Taking care of your self and your girls is the main thing needing to be focused on. Cleaning the house and all other stuff, it’s not as important, I had to learn this and still try hard to remember that. Because the stress of worrying about everything tends to have our mind everywhere setting goals to slowly do one thing at a time and focus only on the task is best. Try that today.

      You can’t control that she is having a baby and can’t control if it is your H’s. And yes, I know that is painful to hear and to see in text too. You can control what you do today about relaxing, breathing, eating and taking care of yourself and your own children.

      Kind Regards,

    • K

      I have washed some clothes and dishes and stuff but other than that I am just blah. My husband just texted and said he got a text that the baby was almost here and is going to leave work soon. I just don’t understand why he is has to be there if he doesn’t know if the baby is his? Like what is he supposed to do? If you all have any insight or can help me understand please do.

      • E


        And my question for you is why aren’t you going with him? It may be hard but it shows her that you are united together in the marriage recovery.

        My husband has to speak in English to the OW when they speak because it shows that we are united and he shows his loyalty to me that way.And they don’t speak without me present to hear things. Boundaries are the key. By him going alone it says he is still in the affair and sharing that emotional connection. Just something to think about.

    • K

      Honestly we didn’t even discuss it. I am a stay at home mom so I have my son and my daughter gets out of school in 45 min or so. But His lawyer told him that I don’t need to have contact with her. And I honestly did even bring it up because I couldn’t imagine it. We haven’t even started therapy yet. I finally found one. But in all honesty when he told me about this on Saturday I was expecting to have a little more time than just a few days before the baby was here.

      I guess I just don’t know how to navigate this and what to do.

      • E


        Thanks for the background. So boundaries are not there. Got it. Okay so this is going to be a rough bunch of emotions. today is just one of those bad days in the process and guess what I have no judgments. My story is so crazy to me still that there are moments that I can’t believe it and have to be reminded it happened. And yes it happened and no it’s not fair and no it’s not right. it still happened and you are a survivor and you can do this. Yes, it’s painful, yes it hurts, I still am trying to keep a family together even with a retainer at an attorney to file divorce at any time because I also want him to know that I can leave whenever I want and anytime I want. It’s the pain of having trust lost and trying to rebuild everything.

        The kids are priority today, You are a priority today. Got it. So, let’s make them a snack. let’s watch cartoons, breathe and hey you got this. It’s a rough day. If there was a way I could PM you which I don’t have. I would

        Let’s put on some soft music, nothing that reminds you of your husband or anything like that or the affair. Wind chimes, or Tibetan chime bowls etc Look at mindfulness and research some techniques. Research some of the materials and information about it.

        Today you need a little bit of that stuff to make it through today.

        Don’t be like me and turned to loud snoop dog and awful filthy rap music out of anger to prove a point. I regret not making my kids a higher priority when they needed me even with my pain welling in my own chest.

        Kind Regards,

        • LK

          Would like to first answer the universal question here of why I’m even on a blog like this as the OW. People have been responding and essentially telling me to go somewhere else. I will go away, but at a time of my choosing. Why was I on this site in the first place? Someone I know who is a betrayed spouse was concerned about the child support that her own husband has to pay, and was wondering if her income would be considered in calculating the amount he has to pay. She makes more money than her own husband and was even talking about possibly taking the child away from her biological mom and then no child support would be owed since they would have full custody. Anyway, that whole thing got me curious, so after doing numerous searches on the topic I stumbled on to this site and here I am. I knew if I chimed in here I would be insulted, and why wouldn’t I be?

          Sure I look like a gold digger. But I earn a lot more than the CS. So his financial support is not going to my manicures, botox, etc. His support is adding to a savings account for my daughter. And, as far as “taking money” and “getting his wages garnished”, in the state of California they call it child support and it’s the law for the biological father to provide for his offspring!! This adds credence to the fact that the CS is not to be held accountable, and he has the sympathy of numerous individuals on this blog. Poor CS has his own family to feed. So you’re suggesting that him being held accountable by the courts to financially provide for his daughter is “unconscionable”. Expecting child support for my daughter has earned me the label of a “sociopath” (thank you boxingday). Now that’s twisted!!! People see what they want to see and because you ladies on here are letting the CS off the hook, and insist on placing all the blame on the OW! The CS apologies for cheating may not be heartfelt. Those CS are just “sorry” they got caught. How presumptuous of some people to judge me and think that I’m simply mooching off of the CS. I’ll repeat, I earn more than he does and he didn’t start paying child support until the child was 4 yrs old. So the individual on this blog who told me to “take ownership” needs to stop thinking that they have me all figured out. No, he does not pay my bills as the child support money is going into a savings account for MY DAUGHTER. I pay my own bills and I own a home and it’s been this way long before I received a dime from him.

          Concerning not letting my daughter see her father. Again, having no father around is better than having an absentee father who can only sneak away every few weeks for a few minutes while he out for a jog. Then all you “holier than thous” are calling me a bad parent and that I’m lost. A bad parent is one that would subject her daughter to that type of instability and heartbreak of a father who is unpredictable. But these are also the same women who are letting the CS off the hook and relentlessly shaming the OW, so your vantage point on this situation makes total sense to me; in other words, just settle for a flakey father and watch your child get hurt time and time again. Me, on the other hand, I will not do that to my daughter. Also, the CS having any type of custody is not likely. I know lawyers in my circle of friends and because the CS is married, no judge would ever allow my daughter to engage in overnight visits, (let alone custody) for fear of placing the child in a hostile environment. His wife and family would definitely hurt my child. The courts also know that the CS denied paternity (until the DNA test told the truth) so his chances of taking my daughter for extended periods of time is highly unlikely.

          • boxingday

            You disingenuous git!
            I laid out exactly why you’re a sociopath and you know it’s not because your’e simply trying to get support for your daughter. IT’S YOUR FLIPPANT ATTITUDE. How many times do I have to say it?!

            Funny how you don’t answer or care about anything I said that would cause you to answer for any of your actions. You just cry about being “mistreated” on here. Anything that makes YOU feel like the victim, huh?

    • K


      Thank you so much. Honestly. Waiting for your reply is what’s keeping from completely losing it. Because I know you can give me advice. I wish we could’ve gotten to that place of boundaries and stuff before hand but we didn’t. I am trying to focus on things I can control in the moment and I am definitely going to listen to the calming music. in all reality I want to scream and hit things and destroy anything I can get my hands on but I know that isn’t the thing to do. I am guessing she is having the baby now because I haven’t heard from him in a little while.

      I thank you all again for the support and advice. I feel like I can’t get through this but each word and thought is helping me.


      • e


        It’s a hard situation and hard to be going through. My advice is just what I do to help me get through the day. The recovery after an affair and with a child involve is difficult. The OW, I don’t know if she did it purposely, I don’t have her insights and I actually don’t really want to because I have my own jaded views of Mistresses and women that sleep with married men. I also think horribly about them and hope they eventually get their own kharma.
        I agree a bit with Rose and would consider peeking into the hospital yet with your anger levels I would caution you not to. Your not at a point of recovery process that it would be good in my opinion and lack of boundaries, yet you can still. Emotions firing at all cylinders can be a dangerous situation for yourself and you may do things you greatly regret and your children don’t need that. I would chose my children over my husband any day because he’s a grown man.

        Kind Regards,

      • E


        You’re welcome. I didn’t know this blog existed until about 6-8 months ago. I also wasn’t as stable in my thinking and emotions till probably about 3-4 months ago. I don’t think my advice is the best. I only think about how I make it through my days because some days are hard. For me yesterday was a hard day. Today has been a good one. In the first year I think most days were hard. Everyday I raged and was angry because it was easier for me to be mad then to show my grief. I still have days that I can rage all day, not so much now and I have better, happier days then I’ve had even during the marriage with the lies. Things take time to process, focus on you.

        If he wants the marriage to work and he wants to save his family even with the new complicated addition (and yes it’s complicated) he will have to make those choices. I suggest reading some of the other blogs on this website especially about ambivalence because that is something that is painful within this whole recovery process because it can take a long time before the affair fog dissipates.

        I learned a lot about friendship. People have wide and bias views about affair recovery and cheaters. I more have my views towards the OW and mistresses because I think it’s an awful thing as a woman to know that he’s married and put yourself in a place that isn’t healthy or morally right. Shows little respect that someone has for any family and let alone themselves. I don’t speak to people that are not friends of my marriage because I am the one that has the emotions and investment not others. I won’t tell you to divorce, I won’t tell you to stay either. I will tell you that it takes 2 people to keep it together and boundaries are going to make it easier and he would have to put the effort because if he doesn’t then there isn’t a reason to put yourself in that situation. MC is something that is important. having an individual therapist that isn’t bias is also important because working through things is going to be a personal journey and it will be like a roller coaster on steroids if it’s bad now it can get a little crazy and you have to be ready for every twist and turn coming at you.

        What you do in your situation is what is best and feels right for you.

        I do get updates in my email and will check from time to time even this evening. Having support is important for just making it through one moment at a time.

        Kind Regards,

    • Rose

      Just IMO, but I’d get a sitter and go there, in her face. And yes, she probably did this on purpose.

    • Qwerty

      I pray the child is not your H’s.

      But if it is, you need to set the rules in visitation – if he will be part of the child’s life and in what way.

      You (and the court) set the rules on support. It is “x” amount of money – that’s it. nothing more for the OW. But you can give more to the child directly when older.

      This is an innocent baby. I am hoping the OW is a good mother. If not, you need to have a plan on what you will do. You & your H.

      No one did this to you. You are an innocent person in this mess. But you can focus on your own children and make sure you have a loving stable home for them. You will need to tell them at some point about this child if your H is the father.

      Life goes on and so will you. But whether you have this OW and child in your life or not, you need to be prepared at all times With a plan B. Because you just never know unfortunately.

      Please keep us posted when paternity is determined. We are hoping it works out for you.

    • G

      I am not sure if this will be on time, but if your H wants the marriage, I would go to the hospital. You don’t have to be in the room, but outside as a support to your H. He is terrified.
      After DNA test make sure H name is on birth certificate or he will not have rights in may states, will have to get them though the courts.
      You might say, support him? why? With me, this is my H, I married him for better or worse and love him unconditionally. Yes he REALLY messed up and should not have had an affair, but he never asked for a baby. My H OW did it on purpose, she even stated that I should be gone by now. Have you asked him what he feels about her? You have to know that before deciding what to do next. My H was in limerence (love) with her and has taken years to have him realize that she is not “the one” Now he is trying to get himself back, trying to release guilt, shame, and forgive himself. I use this time to forgive and heal. There are good and bad days.
      Refer to Marriage Helper 911 website or youtube. They have many podcasts about what I mentioned above and ways to deal with it.
      May God be with you and thank you God for K’s strength in this highly emotional and confusing time. It is not because of you that this happened, it was his choice.
      This baby is innocent. Since the Mom is unstable, you might be the only stable Mom it will have. She will try to control and manipulate you and your H with this child. Be ready, but don’t fight, that is what she wants.
      What a blessing it can be to be here for the life of a soul that wasn’t born though you, but to you and your husband. It is all about perspective. Only talk to us, anyone that loves you will tell you to run….the choice is yours.
      If you need anything just ask.

    • Grace

      Hi Gina

      I’ve been searching the internet for some advice on this matter. Have been married for 7yers just found out a few weeks ago that he has a little gal with some girl who disrespected me on the phone. Have never met her or the baby, he says they had sex once n it was a mistake, he says he has no feelings for her or wat so ever…I know his lying..I want to stay n make things work, I love him so much but things have changed, I fear wat our future will look like wt a child n a disrespectful baby mama involved our future which once seemed so bright is now so dark all because he couldn’t zip his pants. I feel so sad n so angry. Please help

      • Gina

        I am so sorry that this has happened. None of what happened is about you. Your husband had a moment of weakness for whatever reason and now is paying the price of potentially loosing his family. I know that what I say will be hard to understand, but here it goes.
        Get a hold of your emotions. Take a few days to center yourself and see that it wasnt something he did to you, it was a bad choice on his part. Find out, if he will tell you, why he thinks it happened and have compassion. Take responsibility for anything that might have been your fault and talk though it.
        The baby is an innocent victim of circumstance, accept the child if your husband wants the child in their life.
        Marriage Helper is a great place to find resources to help you. They have tons of videos online.
        Most important is to take care of you and decide what you want.Always come from a place of love and compassion.
        See that other woman as a desperate, lonely and lost soul who tried to keep a good man, or paycheck, by getting pregnant. You rise above that and by Gods Grace show what a great woman you are.
        We teach people to lie to us…please do not react to the things he tells you, make it safe for him to talk to you. Creating a safe place for him to open up to you. His guilt and shame is overwhelming, be loving. If he is still involved with her then it is to end and you set boundries.
        You will get though this
        I will pray for you…

    • K

      Hello guys. I know it’s been a little bit. I just wanted to kind of give an update. My husband and I are still together. We are facing financial struggle and haven’t been able to start therapy yet even though I am wanting to so badly. He hasn’t seen the baby since it was born and we had agreed to get a DNA test done but were just waiting until we were able to get the money because it was going to cost us $350 to get it done. Last night he told me that he felt bad that he hadn’t seen the baby since he was born. And that he was not going to get the DNA test because he could look at him and tell that he was his. I don’t know how to handle it. I of course don’t want the baby to grow up without a dad but I don’t understand why he wouldn’t want to get the test done regardless of how sure he was just so we could know with 100% certainty. I am very confused and don’t understand. I was hoping some one may be able to help understand why he wouldn’t want to do that. In my mind I feel like why would you introduce this baby into our life and our kids life without knowing for sure that he is his. What if we do and turns out he isn’t his? I am really struggling and am just looking for some insight. I love my husband and I told him I wanted to work through it but I feel so conflicted. He told me last night his emotions have grown cold and he is just numb. He is supposed to be going out of town for work to a job that pays more money and will help us get straightened out financially and I don’t see how this is going to work. I am really struggling and I feel like I can’t see any hope or light and the end of the tunnel. I want my family to be together and I even talked to him last night and told him if he wasn’t going to put in the work that he needed to just to tell me so we could move on. I never imagined I would be going through this and I feel like I don’t know what to do. Thank you all for your responses. They mean a lot to me.


    • Em

      K – I’m so sorry you are dealing with this! My advice would be to look at your husbands actions instead of listen to his words. His actions are that he cheated and now is going to bring a baby into your lives without the confirmation you need to move forward. His actions are telling you he is not trustworthy and that your needs don’t necesarily matter to him. In my opinion.
      If I cheated on my spouse and had a baby I would do ANYTHING I could do to show how wrong I was and how sorry I am. If a DNA test is what you need that decision should be a no brainer. If he truly had sex one time with this person I would think he would be needing confirmation on his end as well.
      My thoughts are that you deserve more from your husband. A lot more. I would start there. And if I was you I would contact the other woman and ask what the extent of the relationship was. Not in anger but as a wife and a woman who needs answers. I think this whole situation is bringing to light things that you haven’t been seeing.

      I feel for you but having had a similar experience I can tell you that these bad things lead to a lot of good down the line. Don’t sell yourself short. Demand the relationship you deserve. Don’t let your husband use the fact that you want your marriage to work as his leverage to behave badly.

      Good luck and you should be proud of yourself. It’s very brave to reach out and ask for help! Praying for you

    • Sarah P.

      Here is a question for all….

      Is there anyone here who would like to have others pray for them? If so, raise your hand.

      And is there anyone here who wants to pray for others?

      While this is a secular blog, praying is part of my everyday life.

      In my opinion, there are many situations in life where it doesn’t hurt for others to pray for someone who is struggling. I am happy to pray for anyone who asks.

      So just let me know if you need prayer. And any prayer warriors out there, raise your hand.

      Also, prayer can be something as simple as intentionally sending good thoughts another person’s way and intentionally hoping that they find all the support and direction they need during a tough time. Or it can involve a higher power.

      Who needs prayer?

      With love,

    • Em


      I too have prayer in my everyday life. I was lead to find my spiritual compass when I was cheated on in my marriage. So many things in my life changed for the positive out of that negative situation.

      Like you I believe that prayer or sending good thoughts changes things. I have seen It happen. Add me to the warriors!

    • Sarah P.


      I am so glad you have seen the good that comes from prayer or even sending positive thoughts. It’s real. I too have experienced it.


    • K


      I would absolutely positively love prayers sent my way for guidance and direction and that I can do he best thing for me and my family. Just over me in general. I believe in the power of prayer and I know it’s real. I honestly feel like that’s something that can change everything for your life. So I will gladly take all of the good thoughts, good vibes, prayer whatever it maybe my way. I think I am just so confused at this moment and I don’t know what I want what I want to do or feel like I even have an inkling of an idea. So please please pray for me.


      • Sarah

        Hi K. Please may you give us an update of how things are going now. I am not married and I don’t have kids but I am finding it very hard to leave my partner of three years as he confessed he slept with someone when we had a break and he only found out a month ago that she’s 5 months pregnant. I am so distraught every day is a constant battle for me. He has accepted his mistake and says he will be responsible for the child as his dad wasn’t there for him so he doesn’t want the child to suffer. The baby is due in 4 months every day gets harder for me and every day he begs and begs me to stay with him and he’s going to be a changed man and do anything in his power to make it work. He has said I don’t have to be around the baby at all and him and the other woman do not want each other at all they had a one night hook up. She said she can look after the baby on her own and she has cried because she feels horrible that she’s ruined our relationship. But I just can’t make someone choose between their unborn child and me I don’t think it’s fair. I am torn whether I should give him a chance to make up For his mistake or just cut him off cold. Please can someone respond with their email address I have no one to talk to and feel so low

    • Madison

      My husband is trapped by a woman with 5 kids and claims the 5th is my husband but all I know her kids are from 4 different man. My husband is very confused the woman has done lots of spells on him she is 3 years older than him we have 3 children. My husband has never spent a night from home and she knows he is married from start. My husband is foolish he keeps going to see her alone and comes back very confused and inappropriate she obviously does something to him. He will stay away for 3-4 months then she must do something to make him go there. Very strange and frightening from a conservative loving husband to a totally different person. I know he isn’t himself. Its very strange last week when my husband returned from seeing her he tried to lie he was working but I saw everything in his phone then my husband began to make satanic signs with his hands and laughing ???? about everything and praising himself and the bad situation. It took 3 days for him to return to normal and stop this happens every time he sees her he becomes inappropriate celebrating his situation. Oh God prayers needed.We have been married 12 years so I know this isn’t normal.

    • LK

      Holier than thou Rose, are you there? You are quite full of yourself thinking I want your forgiveness??? I was just telling my side of the story by keeping it real. IT TAKES TWO!!!

      • Rose

        Sure, I’ve made mistakes, but never the one you made. I don’t care if you want forgiveness but it seems that is what you are seeking, and you won’t find it here. Also…no one gives a DAMN about your side.

        • LK

          Rose, I’m not asking strangers for forgiveness. I certainly dont give a damn about you. I just wanted to make it known that not all OW out there long to poach these cheaters who you, Rose, will always view as blameless. Dont be too eager to judge and never say never. Don’t get so bent out of shape by my posts. Oh so now you speak for everyone??? Nobody gives a DAMN about my side? I beg to differ. My earlier post elicited a question or 2. Don’t get so worked up Rose! Have a great day!

          • X


            This mistake is made. I’ve been tricked before, you’re not alone. The problem is the men who hide their marriages not the women. The women are too weak to leave so they craft a story where everyone is to blame and everyone knew better. Be mad at him, not the OW, depending. You’re a person that deserves respect just like anyone else.

            • E

              I do give LK respect and LK also knew that posting on this blog would be rough for her so i respect her for those things. She’s not my H’s OW so i don’t hate her and i don’t hate you either. However, please don’t defend all OW’s actions because having a relationship with a married man is selfish and cruel and coming on this blog and rubbing any salt about it doesn’t get you any respect nor will ur replies be heard because like them, i see your reply as the the OW for whom we all despise. When I say I gave respect to LK, that’s because i felt she had guts and didn’t say her part in the affair was glorious and didn’t make it sound that way……. She was curious about the betrayed spouses thought process. I respect that about her and that she is willing to accept that she would not be received well. Does that change her part in the affair? No….. I do think that i respect that she is listening and for that she has my respect…… X, stop blame shifting and deflecting and accept your part of the affair. On this blog honesty, and accountability are better defenses.

        • Me

          Hi Rose,
          You are ???????? awesome. LK is a sociopath and a troll looking for attention. Each time LK answers a comment, LK further exposes her nature. You are helping everyone see LK’s true nature, which LK is happy to show. This is actually a good thing you are exposing her because LK is showing betrayed spouses that the other person truly has sociopathic, narcissistic, and often both types of tendencies.

          But, for now, LK is providing this forum with words that will never go away. That’s powerful because any time a betrayed spouse reads this thread, they can be validated in knowing what they already knew: the other person is not a good person who made one bad decision. The other person is generally a bad person who made harmful decisions for years. Someone should send LK’s words over to The Chump Lady and have the Universal Bullshit Translator deal with LK. In fact, maybe that’s why LK is here. LK knows the general tone of this site is diplomatic.
          LK’s story would not survive Tracy’s Universal Bullshit Translator.

          • boxingday

            If OW really cared what betrayed spouses thought or felt, they would take the time to listen to us, put themselves in our shoes, accept our justified anger and pain, read the articles and really take them to heart, and do some serious self reflection, but they don’t.
            If they really cared, they wouldn’t get on here spouting off the same hurtful crap and lies that fueled their affairs or expecting their stupid, flimsy, and extremely offensive excuses to be accepted by those who know better than to accept that crap.
            They wouldn’t get on here and be so flippant towards the spouses when they know how deeply painful it is to be cheated on .

            Then they have the audacity act like they’re the victims when their butts aren’t being kissed or no one is letting them off easy. And god do they want to be let off easy. They don’t even think they should be blamed at all.
            OH BOOO HOOOOO You’re being called out on your lies, excuses, and crap! You’re being rightfully blamed for your actions and choices?! People are pointing out your glaring flaws?! That must be sooo horrible! POOR YOU!!!! Yes, YOU’RE the victim here.

            I love when they tell us that we’re excusing our cheaters and unfairly blaming them. LOLOLOLOLOL! As if cheaters don’t get blamed! Everyone blames their cheaters, but we also know just as much blame lies with the OW. They’re the equivalent of being a knowing getaway car driver in a bank robbery. They’re just as guilty as the robber. They’re just as much part of it. Just because they’re not part of the marriage they’re helping to destroy doesn’t mean their behavior isn’t unethical, horrible, immoral, and despicable. Not being part of the marriage doesn’t excuse or absolve their poaching behavior.
            I had an OW who talked to me on another forum and you know what? We had a civil and even, dare I say, affectionate conversation. You know why? Because she was trying to be a decent person, unlike LK.
            She told me how it wasn’t until she inadvertently came across another affair partner of the same married man she was screwing that she took a good look at herself. She told me how she sat there listening to the other OW cry because she didn’t know he was married and it made her reflect on herself for the first time because she realized this other OW wouldn’t have made the choice to be with this guy if she knew he was married and it made her feel guilty because it hadn’t mattered to her. She had made flimsy excuses for her grossness. She admitted that she knew the married man was lying to her about his wife being terrible but she used it as an excuse. She talked about what an ego boost it was to think she was better and more valuable she thought she was to her AP than his wife and now she realized none of that was true. It made her realize just how terrible her own character was (her own words) and she decided to become a better person. Too bad most OW don’t have the decency or self-awareness she has.

    • Sam

      Hi. I am really disgusted by this post to say the least. I have known my child’s father for 10 years we broke up in 2013 & he got married at the end of 2013. While married he still maintained contact with me. I moved on but somehow my child’s father felt jealous that I moved on and things went horrible between me and my ex finance coz somehow my child’s father still wanted me in his life. I fell pregnant by my child’s father in 2015 my daughter was born in 2016 and things have gone really bad in the beginning but somehow today I can proudly say my daughter has been intergrated into his family and my daughter is with her grandparents every day while I am at work and my daughter has a bond with both her father and his wife. They have accepted my daughter and never treated her as an outsider she spends birthdays holidays with them. And currently my child’s father is telling me that he loves both me and his wife and wants to be married to both of us. In our religion it is allowed. I just don’t think I am comfortable and would be ok with being a 2nd wife. I am also conscious that this has been difficult and emotional for his wife as well as his family and would not wish this on anyone. I do know we all learn from our mistakes and only human. So before u start judging please keep in mind that EVERY situation is different and stop being so judgement. My daughter is a blessing to me and I love her to bits and would not trade or change her for anything in this world. Name calling a child as being a bastard child is very childish and mean and disgusts me to think woman can actually call a child a bastard child???? I hope your life is perfect as you claim or make out. Who knows what life has in store for you? Mus not have made any mistakes hey? Please look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself does it make you better to call a child regardless of circumstances a bastard child? Also these men know that they are married why are they having sex with other women? Do they not value their marriage enough to stay away? Stop blaming the other woman when I can assure you many of them don’t force these men to have sex with them. They can turn away and go their wives but they don’t.

      • E

        Wow Sam,
        You would consider polygamy? I’m in a state where first hand I’ve see the chaos of it and known many people involved with that type of lifestyle. Just so you know it’s not an easy life. The 2nd wife is not at all in charge and her money is used by the family not kept as hers. Basically she’s a glorified babysitter and sex slave because the 1st wife has all the legal paperwork and control and say in how the relationship is between the other sister wives and her husband …. many of these women live is fear of abuse and many are uneducated young women…. often teenage girls basically given to slavery who’s son’s from the relationship are eventually banned from the community. Often second wives are given to other polygamist husbands too because that’s their version of divorce…. oh please have some self respect….I don’t even understand why you would consider that sort of crap?

    • Elizabeth

      I am a betrayed spouse. My husband began an affair this yr in April and ended things for good in October. I knew about the affair almost immediately. He confessed. (Although i had seen signs before he confessed) Anyway this OW, the homewrecking whore as i call her told my H she couldnt get pregnant. She had a scare in May but got her AF in June. Then in July falls pregnant. She planned this. Idc wat anyone says. ( I have two child myself w/my H. ) My H said he’d break things off numerous times but didnt. Hence her falling pregnant in July. I gave him an ultimatum. Our family or the OW and innocent bastard child. But if he chose our family i would not tolerate him being involved w/OW or child. If things had happened differently (for ex. If it was just a one time thing or he had ended things the FIRST time i asked) i may feel differently but at this point she is just using the unborn child as a pawn and i have no trust in my H or the OW to co-parent w/o going behind my back again. We dont even know if its his (she claims so on social media) or if she’ll even pursue a dna test or CS. My H chose our family and if it is proven he’s the father he’ll sign over rights. I have been through so much more (since april 2019) bc of the two of them that its honestly tooooo much to type out on here but our marriage counselor suggested i get on meds for my ptsd, anxiety, depression, and insomnia. Ive never spoken a word to this whore nor has she to me. As soon as i have the money (waiting for my tax return next yr) ill be pursuing legal action against her and ill speak to a divorce lawyer in my state about my rights. My H has completely changed for the better since breaking it off for good but im scared it might be too late for me…….the pain i feel is indescribable. I cant even eat some days. I do wat i must to make sure my babies are cared for but its hard everyday for me. Things are still so fresh and raw and i still cant believe this has become my life. And plz dnt lecture me on my ultimatum bc i know what I CAN handle and wat i cant and im not about to be looking over my shoulder the rest of my life waiting to be hurt again bc this traitorous bitch is still in the picture. I dnt have to consider the child bc its NOT mine, i didnt ask for this-nor do i have to deal w/it. Im in pain all the time, i love my H and through therapy we’ve began to understand why he did this in the first place, he wants our family. He made a mistake. A huge mistake. He’s trying to prove himself. He is NOT forgiven but i pray one day ill get there. My anger is indescribable towards her especially. Seeing her belly grow is torture and knowing theres a good chance it may be my husband’s is worse. Im feeling sick now physically just thinking about it. God and my children keep me going. If its of any help to any other hurting wives out there remember please….. the thought of knowing that no matter what my two kids and me will survive and be ok. I’ll make sure of tht. Tht thought keeps me going. I repeatedly tell myself this. So please u do the same. “You will survive this”

      And to the OWs on here all i can do is laugh. YOU ARE THE DIRTY MISTRESSES AND YOU ALWAYS WILL BE BECAUSE NOTHING YOU EVER SAY OR DO WILL CHANGE THE FACT THAT YOUR LOW ENOUGH PETTY VILE DEMONS WHO LAID WITH A MARRIED MAN TO BEGIN WITH!!! Nothing you ever say on this thread/site will ever be taken seriously or cared about bc TOUR THE MISTRESS IN THE FIRST OLACE NO ONE CARES ABOUT U. And yes the Husbands that cheat are evil too, i pray the wives on here can help their husbands be better and that your husbands do better ladies. ……And the bastard children (children born out of WEDLOCK) u go push out nine months later……i truly pray for those innocent lives born of this circumstance for too many reasons to list. Those children are doomed from the start bc they have have YOU DIRTY MISTRESSES AS MOTHERS. You evil whores already lack some of the most basic human emotions and morals. Your actions prove that. I’ll pray for your bastard born children.

      • Sarah P.

        Hello Elizabeth,

        I 100% support your views and I support the way you feel about your situation.

        Other readers: please do not judge Elizabeth for her views or her language in terms of what she says about the mistresses of the world.. For now, Elizabeth is the victim here and Elizabeth is the victim along with her two children. The destiny of these three INNOCENT people has been irrevocably altered by the selfish acts of her husband and the other woman. For the other woman to flaunt this pregnancy on social media is the lowest of the low. May CPS take custody of this child upon birth and adopt it out to a prescribed couple who is both unable to have children and who is also perfectly equipped to be loving parents. Note: this is not a statement against single moms. Single moms rock.

        But, this is a statement against what the other woman in Elizabeth’s situation is doing. Also, I am not naive. This woman knew she was dallying with a married man. She chose to get pregnant. Now the other woman chooses to flaunt this on social media. This is a mistress who has chosen to act with vengeance when she is the perpetrator in her part of the equation. It’s enough to get pregnant with the child of a married man and then to flaunt it as a badge of pride? That poor child that she is going to give birth to with be the pawn who was shamelessly flaunted on social media as he or she was gestating in her mother’s womb. This is how inter generational trauma starts.

        Elizabeth is entitled to her feelings and she is entitled to her raw and emotional feelings. She has to live her life and walk each day in her shoes. We do not have to walk in her shoes. Therefore, we must be here to support Elizabeth through her personal tragedy.

        A reminder to all readers: I side with the betrayed spouses of the world, whether these are betrayed women or betrayed men. I write for the benefit and emotional support of the betrayed.

        Elizabeth, I cannot believe this female slime bag flaunts her pregnancy on social media. Some of these women are shameless. I am thinking of how far society has fallen.

        I am thinking of the book The Scarlet Letter. I would imagine that anyone who graduated from an American high school read this book.

        Here is the plot of the book for refreshers: the heroine of the book is a young, beautiful, and childless WIDOW whose husband was killed at war.
        A new minister – who is also young and completely single – becomes the minister in the town church. She and the minister (both single) fall into a deep and passionate love and naturally they have a passionate sexual relationship and she conceives a child. Here is the issue: her husband who was killed in some far off war returns to town. (Conveniently he came back from the dead). Her belly is swollen by this time and she refuses to give that name of the father. The townspeople force her to wear a large, scarlet A on her clothing at all times so that she will be known as the town adulteress. Despite her (very abusive) husband’s pleas, she conceals the name of the true father. She gives birth to a daughter. The minister, who is the real father, gets ill due to his consuming guilt. He dies in her arms. She leaves her husband and she moves to Europe with her daughter so that there will be no stigma on her daughter. When she grows old and ill, she returns to the town and she dies and is buried next to the minister.

        Back in the day, someone like her was treated as the town pariah. But, when she and the minister had the relationship, they were both two single people who had fallen in love. (Until her husband returned. But, for all she knew, she had been a widow. Widows were not forbidden to find love again). When she did what she did, she was for all intents and purposes a widow and the minister was also single. No third party was bathed during the time of their love affair. And of course she broke it off as soon as she learned her husband was alive. Yet, she got to be the town pariah. In today’s society, especially in the hook up culture, two single people hooking up falls within the bounds of morality. Both are single, consenting adults and our society doesn’t blink an eye.

        And if such a thing happened in today’s society where a widow conceived a child with a single man and then later found out her husband was alive, this would be tragic. She would be seen as noble for breaking off the relationship with the genetic father and expecting nothing from the genetic father while also protecting his reputation.

        Times sure have changed!!

        Elizabeth, PLEASE consult an attorney. PLEASE ask about post nuptial agreements. Talk to an attorney about how to protect assets that belong to your biological children. Ask an attorney how to protect yourself. Elizabeth, plan for the worst case scenario so that you are not caught off guard. Educate yourself about every aspect of your rights in this situation. Knowledge is power. If you stay with your husband, I implore you to ask your husband to sign post nuptial agreements written by an attorney. These documents must protect you and your bio children.

        I am so sorry that you and your children have to suffer the fall out of the actions of two selfish people. This is not okay!!!

        And finally, if you stay with your husband, it’s time for a vasectomy.

        I am cheering for you.

        Sarah ❤️

        • Elizabeth

          Thank you for the support Sarah. The vasectomy is already planned, happens a few months from now. That was one of my conditions for continuing in this marriage. And he told me he would do whatever it takes. Im confident he would sign anything i ask of him going forward. He tells me his inexcusable lapse in judgement should not and will not effect our INNOCENT childrens way of life and he will do whatever he must to see that they are always provided for regardless of whether i choose to end the marriage or not. I was a SAHM for the last 5 yrs as he and I initially agreed, but since this has happened i secured a work from home job myself. (which was a must especially bc we have a special needs child whom needs his mother the most) I have reviewed laws in my state, and i CAN take legal action against the OW. I plan to do this when i secure a lawyer indefinitely. Again thank you for the support. I am sorry to any other BS whom find it hard to digest my strong language but i am in great pain and know this is a safe place to express the raw emotions of my broken heart. Sending my love and light to all. Please try to enjoy the upcoming holidays everyone.


          • Sarah P.

            Hello Elizabeth,

            I am so happy you are suing the other woman. Please tell us how it turns out because not everyone knows that this is a possibility. OR, they don’t live in a state where it is a possibility. Take screen shots of everything this woman does. Get a hold of all texts. Document everything. EVERYTHING. Go after this woman with a vengeance. Also, please consider getting CPS involved. The child she conceived is INNOCENT and this child deserves a clean slate. This woman will NOT be a good mother.

            Please know that I have absolutely NO ISSUE with your strong language. I am capable of it myself. I can be deep in prayer one moment -praying to the One God of Israel and of some of my ancestors – and the next moment I can be riffing on something Mrs. Maisel style. Rather, that’s what one of my best friends told me yesterday. She had asked me for some prayers and I sent her some prayers. After she was feeling better, we started talking about her ex husband. I went on a texting rant and she said I was “a regular Mrs. Maisel.” That’s a compliment. I love that show. But, in Mrs. Maisel’s case, her husband did not get the other woman pregnant. Or, if he did, I have not seen it. I have only finished the episode where Mrs. Maisel gets divorced and she starts dating an MD. I paused it when she told the MD she was ready to go up to his apartment for the night. (wink wink).

            For all betrayed women out there, Mrs. Maisel IS the show to watch. It takes places in the 1950’s in New York city and it’s about an educated and fairly well-off family, but it deals with infidelity. And anyone woman who has been betrayed by her husband because he decides to start having sex with a coworker – a teenage coworker- can relate. (86% of affairs in today’s world are related to the workplace in some way.) Doesn’t matter if the betrayed wife is a 1950’s New Yorker, her pain and shock is something we can relate to. After all, she is a married, stay-at-home mom of two children until her husband decides to have sex with his teenage secretary. OUCH. Am right? Age of consent laws. Am I double right?

            Here is Mrs. Maisel at her best. And for those readers who don’t like swearing, you might think the show is not for you.. But, for every female, betrayed spouse, it’s for you, even if you don’t like swearing and even if you think the show is not for you.

            Mrs. Maisel is a loyal wife and the stay-at-home mom doing her mom things until she finds out her husband is having sex with his teen secretary. Her husband leaves her and she also finds out her husband is broke. She loses her home and has to move back in with her parents. Then she gets busy reinventing herself. She happens to wander into an underground comedy club – while drunk – and she takes the microphone and vents, That is where her awesome and empowering but also painful projectory that moves her forward begins.


            Elizabeth and everyone else who is betrayed, speak your truth in your words.


      • E


        I’m perfectly okay with the strong language. I have been where you are and the pain doesn’t stop it can minimize after time. I didn’t have small children when i learned about the truth, the affair and massive lies. I also learned that the child who was a product of lies was innocent and decided to open my heart. I won’t judge you for being angry and i won’t judge you for any thoughts. Taking care of a child who is part of your husband’s lies is not easy emotionally and not everyone can put themselves there.
        My heart goes out to you. I worked over 3 years in personal therapy to get my head on straight. I’m glad you are in a state that you can take legal action against the OW. It helped me in my situation because she backed off super fast realizing i was about to take her for everything she had. If push comes to shove I’m not against it.

        I still hate the OW. The lies and damage that she helped cause in my children’s lives and her own child’s has been difficult to pass on forgiveness and honestly i hope nothing but horrible things happen to her. So I’m okay with your harsh words.

        I also wanted to say that my statements to LK are for my own healing not for anyone elses and i did warn her i won’t defend her because she is the OW…… I just am not mad at her because she’s not my H’s OW.

        • Sarah P.

          I am perfectly okay with Elizabeth’s strong language as well. I am a deeply spiritual person, but I admit that my “sin” is that I am capable of swearing like a sailor.

          I will say that I have seen other commenters in the past get offended when someone uses strong language on the site, including myself.

          So, that was my way of telling anyone who might be offended to know that I support Elizabeth wholeheartedly.

          Strong language does not phase me when it is warranted. And it is 100% warranted when a betrayed spouse is describing their feelings. That’s what swear words have been created for; they are the only words that come close to describing an innocent person’s JUSTIFIED shock and anger.

          E, you are a great commenter on this topic because you are further along in this very situation and your perspective is invaluable.

          • Sarah P.

            PS- People – in the past – have been offended by MY strong language. Strong language does NOT offend me.

    • E

      Sarah, I appreciate the blog. It’s been a great treasure to read others thoughts and stories. It’s also hard when you know how they feel and going through the growth in the journey is a difficult and sometimes lonely one.
      2 years ago my words would have been stronger and with lots of color. I choose not to use strong language because I’ve worked hard in using coping skills taught in therapy for PTSD due to my H’s affair. I also have watched my own son fight an inner demons of self loathing and blame and work everyday to find joy in life…. It’s not easy….. Yet even today i am grateful i have chosen love over hate and even with every trigger in the last few weeks and with the holidays coming I want my family and I can’t have that if my anger is the first thing they see and hear….. I’d rather have laughs, food, and good moments….. Even with pain often in my heart.

      • Sarah P.

        Hi E,
        Well, you have given a lot of awesome advice.

        I understand that you are in a phase where you can choose joy. It probably took a lot hard work to get there.

        I am worried about your son. I can only imagine how he feels. Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal for a wife. But, when a father brings in a new half-sibling born of an affair… ouch!! Does your son still suffer?


    • Elizabeth

      Sarah- Again thank you for the support. And i will most certainly let you know how everything turns out. I do document everything. Screenshot all her social media etc. Believe me. I do feel lucky that i live in a state where i CAN pursue legal action. Let this be a eye opener to any OWs on here….you dirty mistresses make the choice to lay with a married man…..Remember, Your actions do have consequences! You dont all just get away scott free no repercussions. Some women dont have to take this laying down, no pun intended. Be warned you traitorous mistresses can be SUED. Marriage IS CONSIDERED A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT. And when you violate tht in certian states the law is NOT ON YOUR SIDE OR IN YOUR FAVOR. I wish every state had the opportunity for BS to be able to take action. We all deserve that right after the nightmares we endure.

      E- I truly appreciate your words and support. Thank you so much. Sending your family love and light always. ❤️


      • E


        Hang in there. There journey it’s going to be easy. Be careful because even though you are fighting the OW there is someone innocent involved and legally your H has responsibilities that the courts will hold him too. I used the alienation of affection laws to minimize. The OW’s desire to use her child as leverage. It turned out that she was more willing to accept minimal child support and us having him every weekend.
        I was angry enough that i wanted to withhold his parental rights because I felt that with the lies he wasn’t being a father and his child didn’t know him as his father so I felt it was all confusing and damaging…. It was also something later that in CC i learned actually hurt some of our recovery. I had to work on knowing that even with her there, she wasn’t part of our family and there had to be strict boundaries in place to make sure i felt safe, my kids felt safe, her son felt safe and that my H was being accountable for the damage and the affair.

        I’m not shy about how I feel about the OW. I think that she’s a pathetic person who used everyone including her child to keep something that wasn’t hers and lacks respect and that she’s a whore. However, she hasn’t been in my life for at least 3 years and my H is only a part time father which is the sacrifice to keep his marriage and be able to work on his relationship with all his children.

        I wish you happy holidays.

        • E

          Not**** damn cell phone— it’s not going to be easy

    • E

      He’s doing really good. Last couple years were rough because the self blame and trauma of watching your family fall apart led to 4 suicide attempts a 4 month stay in a treatment center and a summer of intensive day treatment. I’m certainly grateful this Thanksgiving holiday because he’s stable and makes jokes and laughs. There is much positive things that this journey has taught me and especially my H. It doesn’t mean it’s perfect. My marriage is still very complicated and intensely unpredictable with triggers on both his and my side.
      Positive things are there is better communication and boundaries. The intimacy is better and we try hard to be teammates not enemies. With being teammates it’s help stabilize my son, talk about the affair in different ways and figure out a different marriage than before.

      I would never want anyone to experience what i have gone through because it’s awful, exhausting and my heart is still broken. The biggest damage is what was taken from me and that part of me no longer exists… I still mourn it.

    • Elizabeth

      E, thank you for your advice. It’s appreciated and so is the support. My H and i have discussed alot and in great detail. There is still much we need to discuss. I have made my boundaries clear and he know what I expect going going forward. I have made it clear what can and can not tolerate. I’m familiar with the laws in my state. I will try to remember keep everyone posted on how it turns out. Again thank you for your insight. ❤️

      • E


        I hope your journey isn’t as difficult as mine has been these last few years. It’s a roller coaster for sure. Please do pop in every now and then.
        I hope your kids are doing okay with the chaos because i know in my situation it’s been difficult with them.

        The holidays get rough during affair recovery because the memories are more vivid and i the last couple years I’ve distanced myself from many friends and family who were not friends of the idea of trying to work on my marriage.

        Be strong, you have support here.

    • SMB

      I‘m a 36 year old mother of 3 boys and I’m pregnant with my 4th boy. The child I’m pregnant with is fathered by a married man. Let me tell my story and you all can tell me if you think I’m the evil Jezabel that this article has painted all OW out to be.
      I met the baby‘s father in February of this year. We live in a big city, in the same neighborhood and I would run into him often when I was out running errands, corner store, bakery, supermarket etc. He would always hit on me and ask for my phone number, and I was flattered to be honest. I had been living with shared custody (kids lived with me during the week, father on weekends) of my three boys for about a year at that point after having gone through a four year long divorce with their father, whom I was married to for 14 years, and it was just so long ago in my life that I had flirted with anyone. It felt good, but he was just a stranger from the neighborhood so I said no to giving him my number for a long time, until of course I finally gave in, that was May. Like I said, it had been so long since I had been in the dating game, plus now I was a mother of three and I was really nervous about it, but finally I decided to give him a chance since he was so persistent , I thought he was cute, and I was honestly starting to feel a bit lonely. I gave him my number and we starred chatting over messenger. Talking with him felt really natural and it really flowed. We got to know each other a bit over chat and it turned out he was a father of three too,(separated from mom, according to him), so he had no problem that I was a mom, and we just seemed to have a lot in common. I finally agreed to a first date in the middle of June. It was a great date. He picked me up, took me to a nice restaurant, had more nice conversation, dropped me off and we hugged goodnight. Before the date I was nervous again because I didn’t know if he’d want to get physical afterwards and I knew I wasn’t ready for that, so I was surprised, relieved and happy with the hug at the end of the date. He texted me about an hour after the date telling me what a good time he had and how he‘d hope to see me again. I wanted to see him again too.
      The next time we met he said he wanted to explain why he had only hugged me after the last date. Apparently he was a very serious Muslim and we could only have physical contact if we were to ever get married. I told him I was very happy to take things slowly and was really happy with idea of getting to know one another before anything physical came into it. So far everything was going great. We continued to date over the next months and I started falling in love. He told me he was falling in love too. Here was a guy that treated me really great, he worked really hard, he really loved his kids and family, believed in God, ( that’s the picture he painted of himself anyway).We got along great and always had a lot of fun together.
      Things got more and more intense, we would sometimes have a forbidden kiss or he‘d hold my hand, until one evening after a particularly romantic night, we couldn’t keep our hands off of each other. We ended up walking through the park, sat in the grass and kissed like two teenagers. He said we should go back to his place, he couldn’t resist me anymore. He had a studio apartment attached to his warehouse( he has a business selling vintage furniture) where he told me he’d been living since his separation. I resisted a bit, but I also felt totally overwhelmed by my desire for him. We went. It was amazing, explosive, like having sex for the first time, but of course in all of our lust we used no protection. We made love all night. The next morning he was feeling guilty because of his religious beliefs, and needed to wash and repent. But he also admitted he was crazy about me and didn’t think he could resist being physical anymore and asked if I would marry him that day so that we could touch freely without sin. I was in a daze of love, I did something impulsive, I said yes! In a Muslim marriage all that is required is two witnesses and vows to be said and you’re married. He said he’d arrange witnesses by the evening. That morning we also talked about my birth control situation. I wasn’t on anything. I said I would buy the morning after pill that day and make an appointment with my doctor to get an IUD ASAP. He said he didn’t like condoms, but would wear one until I got on my birth control. When I did end up meeting my gynecologist she said I had to wait until after I got my next period to arrange the IUD. He asked what would I do if I became pregnant, I told him I didn’t believe in abortion , I had one when I was 20 with my first husband which hurt me emotionally and damaged our relationship, I promised myself I would never do it again and would rather get an IUD.
      We went on our separate ways for the day, me arranging morning after pill , he arranging witnesses for our marriage that evening. We met around 6pm that evening and married in a ceremony that lasted about 10 mins, that was the 1st of September. I was very happy but felt strange too, like now what? He took me too a beautiful, romantic hotel that night, but something felt different about him instantly. He asked me that night what would I do if I found out he wasn’t who he said he was. The question gave me the chills but I didn’t really answer any clear and the subject was changed. Around three in the morning his phone rang and he went into the bathroom to answer, he came out and told me his daughter was sick and we had to leave right away. We left the hotel and he dropped me at home. I felt hurt that that’s how my wedding night would be, but his daughter was sick, I had to respect that, right?
      After getting married he was never the same, no more sweet talk, no more late night video chats just to be able to see me, barely time to see me during the week. It was like he bought me and now that he owned me the negations to win me were over. We still went on dates but maybe once a week. Before the marriage he would find time to see me everyday, even if just for 30 mins before I picked up my kids from school. Of course I demanded to know why such a switch. He finally confessed he was still with his wife, but told me to please trust him and give him time to show me how it could be, he explained a Muslim man is allowed to have up to 4 wives. I could deal with being a second wife maybe I thought but only if his first wife knew and agreed. He had already lied so much., everything became bitter. He told me he did that because he wanted to show me what kind of man he was before I judged him for having a first wife that I needed to first understand Muslim culture. I had a lot of feelings for him and said I would stay but he had to tell his wife. He agreed. He brought it up to her as an idea, like “what if I took a second wife?” She reacted so badly to just the idea of it that he said he could never tell her. I said I could never be a secret woman. Our marriage was basically over in four weeks. We decided to stop talking but he didn’t divorce me. In a Muslim marriage a man simply tells the wife she’s divorced and it’s over, a woman can’t do the divorcing, and the man has to wait until the woman gets her period before he’s allowed to say it. So we agreed it was best to go our separate ways, it wasn’t going to work, and I would just contact him when I got my period so he could divorce me.
      Anyway weeks start going by in October, period started to be very late, my last period was August 20th, but I had taken the morning after pill and that makes you late, so I thought there was no reason to worry just yet. Then one morning I was in a bakery and the smell of fresh baked bread made me feel sick to my stomach and I knew. Took a positive pregnancy test October 18th.
      I contacted him right away, he was shocked on the first day, but became supportive the day after. The thing was he still wanted to keep it a secret, he wanted to move me and my kids to house outside of the city, remember we live in the same neighborhood, and have us be his secret family. I told him I would never tell his wife, that it was his responsibility, but that he had to know that the situation would never stay a secret forever and that the longer it took to come out the worse the consequences. The reality began to hit him, he started to panic and demand I have an abortion. He said I lied about taking a morning after pill, and tricked him into getting me pregnant because I’m old and would never have another chance. He called me a whore, a slut, a bitch and told me his wife was his queen, he became verbally abusive because he could simply could not face the responsibility of his actions. He started threatening that his wife and he would take the baby from me and raise it in a “proper“ family.
      His wife overheard him on the phone with a friend talking about the situation one evening and everything came out finally, what a relief, she left with the kids for the weekend, but came back and demanded he never have anything to do with me or the child. He clearly told her lies about how our relationship started because he called me with her listening to tell me that he never wanted anything to do with me or the child and that the whole thing was my fault for going after a married man! He blocked me on everything after that and I’m haven’t talked to him since the 27th of October. I will never go after him for child support, I know where he lives, and where he works I could go after him, take him to court, but I will not. But my heart breaks for my child that he has such a coward of a father. I had sex with this man 7 times, once unprotected which is obviously the time I got pregnant, and told him straight away I don’t believe in abortion, I never lied and never tried to poach a married man.
      I can say I’m guilty of being naive, childish, dumb, gullible for falling for this man so quickly, but evil?! A bad person?! I was maybe too desperate to be in love again and let myself get taken advantage of. But even if he were to be in the child’s life I would never want him as man after such behavior. Also I understand how crushed the wife must have been, I had my own heartbreaking marriage, but to block the child from contact with their father, to punish the child?! To me that seems so cruel. Her husband broke his vows, he cheated on her, and they are Muslims she knows since the beginning he’s allowed to have other wives, but this man was too cowardly to admit to her that he had taken this right that the religion they follow allowed him. He ran around town doing whatever he wanted with me or his guy friends, taught his wife that you don’t question a man about his whereabouts, used her as a cleaning woman and babysitter, and when his choices lead his world to crumble he turned into a pathetic little boy who realized how much he took his wife for granted. But the child really doesn’t deserve to be blocked for life. I wish I could meet her and talk to her, but I wouldn’t dare to just go to her. I wish she knew my truth, but I’m confident the truth always comes out in the end. And I don’t need to have anything from him or seek revenge, God will take care of that. As I mentioned several times, we live really close in the same neighborhood, it’s certain he will see me with the child at some point. I’ve lived in this neighborhood for 16 years and I plan to move after the baby is born. When my son asks about his father, I can’t bare to tell him how he wanted nothing to do with him but also lives right down the street! I believe the man has the majority of the blame in this case, and honestly I’m in shock and disbelief anyone could do the things he did.
      I’m embarrassed as hell about the situation I’m in, but I’m am not this evil OW you’re describing, just feel like the biggest fool idiot in the world.

    • Amanda

      LOL×10 @ all the OW and their sympathizers blasting these comments. You know exactly what you did. But you are selfish in every imaginable way, and so is the husband if he does the worst and chooses you. You deserve WAY more than some PG13 cuss words, you deserve total obliteration. Which is what you did to the husband’s real family. And I hope with all of my heart that every wife in this situation gets every ounce of asset and you are left to survive on Top Ramen for the remainder of your years.

    • Sarah Dyme

      Can someone please email me I need advice and everyone has posted a while ago. I am in this situation I am struggling

      • E

        Hi Sarah,

        I’m sorry to hear that your struggling with this painful situation…. This forum is here to help and if u want you can post and i can assure you there will be advice and understanding.

        • Sarah

          Thank you I appreciate that the only thing is that he’s not a husband he’s just a long term boyfriend but if I am still welcome to post then here goes.

          We were together for two years and I honestly feel like I will never meet someone again who I have deep feelings for. I know 2 years is not a long time but in those 2 years we have been through a lot. I will try to keep the story as short as possible.

          4 months into our relationship I became pregnant. It didn’t even cross my mind that I would be pregnant and my boyfriend told me to take a test as I had missed my period by one day. Turns out I was. Anyway it was a shock to me and I was really emotional as I didn’t think I would be ready for a child with him. I only knew him for 4 months then and we both worked retail jobs. He was in and out of jobs and he lived in a house share. I live one hour away from him with my family. I panicked and told him we weren’t ready to bring a baby into this world so we briefly spoke and I made a decision to have an abortion. Looking back at it I feel really guilty and I regret it every day. I wish I wasn’t scared to tell my mum and I wish I didn’t let fear take over me but unfortunately I did. He was not happy at all, he said he would provide for our child and he strongly disagrees with abortion. It goes against his morals. After speaking about it he said he will support me no matter what I decide. Anyway I couldn’t find any appointments only ones that were 2 months away and I didn’t want it to grow so I would feel even worse so I visited my sister and went with her to get the abortion. He wasn’t happy about this as he said we were supposed to do it together and that we rushed the decision to abort it. I went through with it. Before this he was amazing to me and he was really close to my sisters. He made me so happy, but after the abortion our relationship went downhill. He started acting cold towards me and always angry at me. I stayed because I didn’t think much of it just wanted us to get through the hard time together. 8 months later, a week before my birthday he ended the relationship he said he’s going through a lot but he would never open up to me. He doesn’t really have a solid family unit he is not on good terms with his mother or father. I spent my birthday crying in a hotel by myself and I lost so much weight in the 3 months we separated.

          I don’t know how but we started talking again and we saw each other and still slept together. Eventually we ended up back together and our relationship seemed stronger than ever. We were happy again and everything was going well. He ended it with me AGAIN 2 months later because he said again that he is going through a lot and that he doesn’t want to drag me down with him. I didn’t understand and I was really really hurt. But again, we spoke as normal and I ended up seeing him. He started acting like we were together again and that nothing had happened. So we were on the right track again and he told me to forget about it that he loves me. In November 2019, it was just a normal day I went to see him and went home the next day. The day after he asked me what I’d do if he had a child and I said it wouldn’t change anything because I thought it was before me. He called me and confessed to me that on our first break up he slept with a random girl at a party and never contacted her again. But she called him on an unknown number a week before he saw me to tell him that she’s 5 months pregnant. I was devastated and I said a lot of horrible things about him and her both. I started regretting the abortion all over again and beating myself up for it.

          I told him I would be there for him and I love him but it’s been a month now and I keep going back and fourth with my thoughts. He drove to me around two weeks ago to finally open up about everything he was going through and said the abortion destroyed him. He begged me not to leave him and said he will only speak to her regarding the baby and that he loves me and not her. That he still wants us to build our future together and go through with our plans of moving out together.

          But ever since then I have been saying a lot of horrible things to him via text and apologising and then repeating it. My head is completely lost but now he has given up trying to fight for us. His brothers wife said that he is tired of going over the same argument with me every day that he loves me but I’m stressing him out because he didn’t want a baby with this woman but I keep going at him. He’s not replied to me in 1 week now and has told me to move on if I can’t accept his child. His brothers wife told me that he still loves me a lot and wants to work it out but if I can’t accept his child I need to move on.

          I love him a lot and I’ve been trying to forget him but I just can’t. I’ve been trying to talk to other people to distract me and everybody is telling me to move on. I really want to make this work he said he will only talk to her for his child and that he wants to be responsible because he never had a father figure in his life so it’s the right thing to do. He said I can look at his phone any time and I can pick up the baby with him so he doesn’t see her on his own. He deeply regrets it and said he’s made a mistake. I still don’t know what to do and the baby is due in February/March I am stressed the closer the due date comes.

          Just wondering if anyone has been through this? Any advice will help me. Thank you xx

    • E

      Wow Sarah, that’s a lot to go through. I’m not going to beat you up on any of your own guilts and pain because regrets are painful and you are the one that has to live with those choices because they happened and you can’t go back and undo them. I also want you to know that I’m not judging you as a bad person or holding the decision of an abortion to make you feel worse. That’s between you and yourself to workout.

      As of this man. He technically is cheat by moral standards and you don’t have to accept any child if you don’t want to and I’m not going to tell you that your wrong or right by those feelings.

      I will advise that your not married so you have legal obligations to him and even though you want the relationship the unresolved guilts and demons will be something that impacts the relationship and any future ones so i do suggest finding a personal therapist to work out your own pain, shame and guilt and just in the process keep in mind that staying in relationship with him her child will be first the unresolved resentments won’t make it work out like in the fairy tales because the pain u have now without the right advice will only make things worse.


      • E

        Fyi…. I write by phone so corrections are you are not married so there are no legal obligations to him.

      • E

        Also Sarah,

        I don’t trust any man when he says it was a one night stand after a break up considering my story and background you wouldn’t either. I call him a cheater just because he probably knew and was contacting her long before the pregnancy was told to u. I’m only telling you my perspective which could be wrong too. However, my H told his kids, all his friends, my family that the woman who was his AP that was living with us for like 13 years and helped raise my kids was his sister. So my views are probably a little bias about any man saying it was a one night stand and he doesn’t love her and loves you….. Fyi, it’s classic cheater justifications and gaslighting.

    • Twalisha

      Thank you for writing this. It was very helpful. I am currently in this same situation where my husband has recently had a baby with another woman while in an affair with another woman all while being married to me. He uses the same lines on both women saying that he is miserable with me and that he never wanted to be with me let alone marry me. The first woman fell hard for him i guess because the affair carried on for 5 years until woman number 2 got pregnant. All i wanted was to keep my family together so i tried to ignore it but up until this day, I feel like things are worse. Baby momma tells me that my husband has been talking to her like he wants to be serious with her but while she was pregnant she was telling me that she was very fertile and that it was an accident that neither one of them wanted it to happen and he says that he and the first woman were arguing all the time because he didn’t want to leave his family. So in my mind i believe baby momma got pregnant on purpose because she felt some sort of sorry for him and thought she could get him out of his made up situation or she is after money. Supposedly the no longer speaks to the first woman anymore, which i know he is lying because i found receipts from resturants with her name on them in his car from just last month. He tells these woman that if he leaves that i will not let him see his children which is not true. He is very emotional, mentally and verbally abusive to me, i guess hes doing all of that to get me to kick him out so he can run into the arms of his baby momma. Hes always telling me that she is not evil or conieving and that she wants the best for him. I have asked for my children and me to see the baby but hes telling her that i am crazy and not to trust me because its weird that i am not angry or mad that he fathered a child outside our marriage and that i might try to steal the baby or do something horrible….and she is so caught up in what he tells her that she believes it, I just want my children to meet their baby brother… is that wrong? He goes to her house and stays several hours visiting the baby who is only 5 months and he says that they dont mention me at all (which i know is a lie). Honestly, I could write a whole book on my marriage to this thing of a man/husband, but right now i am trying to figure out what to do? My family is already breaking apart so what more can i do to try to save it?

      • E


        I’m so sorry your going through all of this pain and chaos right now. I’m not sure what advice would help u the most. Your H is not being an honorable man to multiple women and that alone is heartbreaking for you and children.
        My family fell apart after the truth of my H’s affair and lies came out. I too want to keep my family together. However, our desires don’t always work out the way we want and even within my own story and family the wants of a cheater are not something i want or deserve. Any abuse is abuse you deserve better and if he is hitting you then he deserves the consequences of it which means calling the police when it happens. Your children don’t deserve to watch and learn the disrespect.

        My advice is to work on yourself. To learn all the laws in your state and to find a therapist or even call a domestic violence hot line. I won’t given justification for any abuse. You don’t deserve it and your H doesn’t deserve you because your a better person than him. Please read about abuse because it will help you see some different things about ur relationship. Abuse in any form isn’t love.

        I commend you for watching the siblings to know each other, my own judgement is that I’m not sure it’s the right timing for it with what you have shared. I feel that your emotions are high and that’s okay I’ve been there and when we act with high emotions we sometimes do the wrong thing.

        I won’t tell you to divorce or separate. However i couldn’t continue living with my H if he was doing what yours is. I have boundaries that we put in place to make me feel safe. If he wants to be married to you then those need to be established with a third party like a therapist or clergy.
        As for his children with the other women. Those are not ur responsibility. You need to only worry about ur children which means you need to seek legal advice even if you don’t use it.

        I don’t share any bank accounts with my H. I’m not going to pay for child support. He needs to do that and child support means that you need to know legally what would be paid to you if u separate.

        You can demand a DNA test etc… I would go myself to a dr and gets tested for STDs because he’s obviously getting around and you need to take care of urself.

        There’s so much more.. Read the blog here.

        • Leonine

          I have something to say, I have been on both sides! Married & the mistress. First of all, who are you to trash the mistress! Remember it takes two. If your husband was happy at home, he will not seek love/ attention/ sex or what ever you choose to call it. It’s always easy to blame others, is just the coward way out! How about look at your self in the mirror, first.
          So all you disgusting humans out there, who wants to blame others. Work your issue out with your husband. Or maybe your husband don’t love you and is only pitting you. It’s quite pathetic to blame the other woman! Please remember it takes two!

          • Me

            Thank you for leaving your very honest opinion. It’s very instructional for us. You call us betrayed spouses disgusting human beings. That says a lot about you. I have been studying infidelity for years, have several graduate degrees, and you could not be more wrong about infidelity. If a man has a ring on, you can always say NO. If you choose to say YES, that makes you an accessory to adultery. You are exercising your free will – making a choice – to have an affair with a married man. That is 100% on you.

            Glad that you have shown your true colors to the blog. Betrayed spouses, take notice.

            Leonine, you should be disgusted to look at yourself in the mirror due to your thinking and your behavior.

    • Sarah P.


      I am aware that there are men out there who pretend to be single and they are a type of con artist. Con artists come in all kinds of flavors. Some con artists scam money off of other people. Some men are serial cheaters who attempt to scam single women into relationships.

      It’s interesting that you say his family acted as if everything was normal. Seems you came across an extremely dysfunctional family system; probably a narcissistic family system. I have never heard of a situation where the lie goes so deep that his family plays along. (Even with estrangement).

      I would like you to realize this blog is a safe harbor for betrayed wives to come and work through their pain together.

      Until you have been in a 30 year marriage with kids, grandkids, assets, and shared memories, it is impossible to understand what it’s like to have the rug pulled out from under you. It’s a situation that you must live in order to know. The women who come here have all had the rugs pulled out from under them. If you could hear the stories of some of the women whom I counsel, I think you might be surprised. Due to confidentiality clauses I am not able to mention the 100% concrete consequences that betrayed wives live through. Not only does it destroy a woman’s mind, body, and soul, it destroys children and grandchildren. Adultery leaves a metaphorical trail of bodies in its path. It is the most devastating situation a wife can face. It can never be taken back, even if she divorced her spouse. The pain and complexity of the betrayed goes deep.

      This post is about spouse poachers. A spouse poacher is someone who knowingly pursues a married man. She does not pursue a single man. She pursues a married man, with the singular purpose of destroying a marriage and family. The context of this post has to do with spouse poached, not single women who were tricked by men pretending to be single.

      This is where the sadness of the wife comes from, the idea that a single woman was knowingly pursuing a married man. A spouse poached is in an entirely different category.

      I think we all know a woman or two in our personal lives who thought she was dating a single man. Some men will go to great lengths to appear single. That’s not ok.

      Please be aware this is a post about spouse poachers. Please read the women’s stories knowing these betrayed women were victims of spouse poachers, not single woman who believed they were dating single men. The context here is extremely important.


    • Anon84

      Omg I feel so validated. Literally just found out about my husband getting another woman pregnant (I still want to stay together). He said she didn’t get pregnant intentionally and I told him yes, she did. She was “on birth control” and he wore condoms (but may not have when he was drunk). So no, I do not believe this was an accident. He was deployed and told her in the beginning that he didn’t want anything serious. When she found out she was pregnant (the day he returned from deployment, interesting timing no?) my husband told me everything. She didn’t believe him when he told her that I wanted to stay with him and cried when he asked her what she expected would happen. The only thing this doesn’t cover is what to do if your husband wants to be involved in the child’s life? My husband is great (outside of this, but please save me from all the well if he was great then…scenarios) and he is an even better father and he can’t be absent. Or he refuses to be anyways. So how do I deal with that? The constant reminder of what happened? And my other thing is, I don’t know how to tell my family. My whole family legitimately loves this man and has a great relationship with him and I think that trying to make things work will be difficult with my family hating him. If she had decided not to keep the baby I would have just not said anything but I am going to have to.

      (I do want to add that we have a child and although it is not the only reason for staying it is one of the biggest)

      And a question for the OW reading this. Why? Why do you want to have the child of a man that doesn’t want to be with you. A man that has a wife and child? How could you do that to someone and live with yourself? I legit do NOT get it.

      Also OW do you ever apologize for being a trash human and ruining another woman’s life? Where is my apology?! FUCK you OW.

    • T. G


      I feel your pain…I am currently going through the same situation. My husband and I have 3 children together plus 2 that I had before I met him. We have been married for 5 years now but together a total of 15 he has always cheated on me on and off, I would kick him out and he’d come running back a couple of months later and of course me being stupid I’d take him back and now this….he claimed it was an accident that the OW got pregnant but not only was he dealing with her but there was yet another woman involved that decides that she’d had enough and left him alone after finding out that the OW was pregnant (and did I mention, the ow knew that he was married and that he was cheating on me already with someone else but decided to go ahead and be the 3rd wheel) once he told me he pretended that we were gonna start from scratch and deal with this together and I agreed to do so but as soon as the baby was born the narrative changed, he started tell her that I was crazy that he only stays with me bcus of our children and that he is miserable with me that he wanted to be with her and the baby which in my mind is a load of bs bcus it’s the same scenario that he used with the woman before her ( how do I know this you might ask…bcus I personally spoke to both women face to face) But nonetheless he is still here! But fast forward to now he is in the baby’s life he claims that he has nothing going on with the mother but he goes there and stays over 5 hrs there supposedly spending time with the baby. The baby has only been to my house 3 times but never that long and I am not allowed to hold him or interact with him and he would tell me “how do you think the other woman would feel knowing that u held her baby if I let u hold him?” Like seriously…the baby was crying and being the mother that I am I wanted to hold him so he would calm down…and so he stopped bringing him over and says now that he is still a baby and attached to his mother when the baby will b 1 in August (I mean like what is the appropriate age for the child to b able to bond with his other siblings?) I mean like the whole situation is really fuk’d up… I here like I want my marriage we have some much already built so much time invested and for what? For someone to come in and tear it apart and he’s letting them… it’s so frustrating… my husband is so back and forth like he doesn’t kno what he truly wants and it’s driving me bananas and I bet the OW is loving it… there’s so much more that I could write but my advice to you is sit down with your husband and have a heart to heart conversation and think really hard about everything including how it’s now going to affect your children and family then come up with a plan and set ground rules, be open and honest about ur feelings…if he’s serious about your marriage and what it means to you both he will accept the terms and conditions in order to make things work out and let him know that since you and him are one then that means you will be present in that child’s life as well and stand firm! I know that was mistakes that I made with my husband and that’s why he kept running out on me bcus I didn’t understand and know how to b firm and mean what I say…. with him I should have been like that from the get go and maybe things wouldn’t have turned out like this where he’s living two separate lifes and doesn’t want to combine them and it’s causing chaos in our marriage and our family and at this point I’m not too sure on what to do! But I hope my advice helps you. Have a blessed day!

      • Bel

        So to hear. Husband is being manipulative. I think it’s better not to have anything to do with it. Otherwise the two play around with you. Have nothing to do with it for your sanity you have enough babies you don’t need anymore!!!all the best

    • Sharon

      I am going through this except I just had our first child and 20 minutes after I delivered her, my husband told me that she was pregnant. I honestly don’t know how to deal with all this.

      • E

        That’s really an awful thing to hear after giving birth. Especially when your physically and emotionally exhausted and already hormonally depleted. I’m sorry that your going through this.
        You need to take care of yourself and the baby first. Because going through the emotional rollercoaster and obsessive thoughts is going to be hard because I have been there too. I didn’t find out the same way you did and I still have days of obsessive thoughts. Your baby needs you and you need to make sure your taking care of them.
        Please check into getting advice from an attorney too so you know your options and I always reccomend seeking a good therapist because I don’t think my head would be on straight without one.
        It’s okay to cry, I still do 4 years later and just breathe…. You are tough girl and proved it by giving birth.

      • Shifting Impressions

        That was unbelievably cruel on your husband’s part! E has given you some good advice. Do you have someone close that you can talk to? This is to much to handle alone…..especially just after giving birth.

        • E

          Shifting Impressions,
          I agree that Sharon’s husband was cruel to give the news in that situation. I can only imagine the post pardum shock and then top it off with a gut slam. Sharon girl… I don’t know you and I am totally your friend. I will listen in blog all day. I spend 17 years of my marriage under lies and deception and 4 years after the truth was known I can tell you it’s better with my heart even though it is broken badly. There are bad days and I assure you July is not my favorite month due to Dday. I have been angry and revengeful and was for the first 2 years after Dday. I caution you with these things because yes you can feel them and it’s okay too. Acting on them causes more pain. I won’t tell you to get divorced and I won’t say work it out. That’s for you to decide. The first few months after Dday your emotions run crazy, you will feel crazy. My H and I divorced just a few months ago because the aftermath and recovery was to hard on our family. My son tried to commit suicide 4 times and the grief and pain just is to much sometimes. Virtual hugs today because your not alone and congrats on your new baby even with pain it’s still a celebration for their new life.

      • Bel

        Husband is being cruel just ignore it’s not time to fight but look after Bub. Be prayerful

    • Dre

      This wasn’t “harsh”. It was downright nasty. Not everyone in this situation is living it the way YOU see it. I was the OW, but was with the man for several months before he told me he was still married. He also told me at that same time that he was in the middle of a divorce. I ended up moving in with him, and lived with him for 4 years. We ended up pregnant, and yes, I wanted a baby, but not for money. I always wanted to be a mom. I got my baby. I never wanted more. After a while, I started to feel that he was lying, because he told me he was working things out to get his divorce, but it could take a long time because he had so many assets. I came from a poor family, and didn’t have any idea about these things, so I believed him and stayed. It wasn’t until I called him out that things got nasty, and he broke up with me. It’s been almost 3 years and I have never asked for a dime. I let him see our daughter, but he has not let her meet her sister still. I will not step on toes, and do what I truly want to do, because it’s not right. I know I should’ve left when he said he was married, but I didn’t. I don’t regret my child though. I also think that if you think I can’t raise my child because I was a mistress, you can bite me. My daughter is amazing, smart, sweet, funny, and more than anyone could ever deserve…but I get to be her mama, and God made it so. I made mistakes. Her father made mistakes-oh boy, did he make mistakes! I never lied, but was lied to for years, and ended up hurt. Now, as a single mother, I went from being a girl from a poor family, to a woman who has found the strength, and courage to start a business, live comfortably with enough to spare, go to school for a degree, and not only take care of myself, but also my child, my father, my brother, and many other people without wincing, or asking her dad for help. However, I have stayed his friend, so when he needs me, although he’s the millionaire, I’m always just a call away. I learned my lesson, and what I’ve done does not make me any less of a person. Before deciding what all OTHER WOMEN are, maybe you should find more stories, because we aren’t ALL the same. Many of us were tricked into what we thought was something real. And if Christianity is your way, I recall a verse saying “judge not, lest you be judged”. I’m pretty sure it applies to all actions, and people. I won’t let you cut me down to whatever size you’d like me to be. God gave me a gift, and I will only grow from here on out. This toxic post that is meant to shame people like me will not work on this hard working, forever loving mama. I handle my own. Your comments are unsustainable. I hope and pray YOU find peace to forgive anyone who has hurt you or caused confusion in your relationships or life. God bless you all.

    • Anon2020

      Dre. While you make some very good points about your mistake in believing your child’s biological father about getting a Divorce and being misled for many years — the fact is you still remain the Other woman. Being a “phone call away” is just one aspect of the deception you live with.

      The fact that this man’s wife doesn’t appear to know about your child is the second deception. You are complicit in his behavior and actions.

      While admirable that you pulled yourself up by your own efforts and became successful financially, you are still cheating on another woman. You can spout your own philosophies but you are still being controlled and manipulated by this man. You just don’t see it.

      Keep living the lie. Keep perpetuating this fantasy that you are a step above others b/c you allow the bio father to shirk his financial responsibilities to your child. Keep letting this guy lie to you and his wife. How sad you don’t see him for who and what he really is.

      • Dre

        Anon, I think you’re right. I never looked at it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. I will definitely back off of being a call away, and find any way to stop being a part of the lies. It’s not fair to anyone involved. Thank you.

        • Sharon

          Anon put it perfectly Dre, take the advice. Stay away from married man. A way to imagine is how feels is you are a woman you mention you had a family imagine your mother and father and you as the daughter. Then go back to the teaching we tell our children treat others how you like to be treated. You will never have true security eat them insecurities of others. Always put yourself in others shoes. Personally, I do not like my husband to have contact with other women directly for social things. I would be very upset if someone told my husband they are a phone call away. That’s what I am there for too. It’s like a competition. Lady find your own man, a father figure for your daughter cut your losses and move on with a new family. Stay away from married man no excuses. He is not available. This approach will attract more blessings into your life and your daughters by living an genuinely exemplary life based on kindness (not finances) not fantasies. I hope you don’t find this harsh see it this way to someone you and your child are a trauma that is probably why other women don’t want their children mixed up with OW. You don’t seem to understand this part you created trauma the moment you proceeded with a married man. That is why I said in future stay away from married man no excuses. You have to undo what you did as much as you can and don’t take what happened lightly. It’s a bad situation. It’s always better to get a commitment first with social media and all its not hard to know people. I don’t understand how you found out 4 years later. I don’t believe it myself unless you are so naive. Most OW know because the man cannot take you home and many other reasons.You probably thought a child would glue him in, but no. Man love their wives and children. You will be playing second wheel and doing so much harm by making yourself available. Good luck with the future please do not do anymore harm.

    • boxingday

      It’s been pointed out in this very thread that this post isn’t about you or OW like you. This is about other women who purposely and intentionally do this. You are just as much a victim as the betrayed wives here. You were lied to too. So why are you trying to wear a shoe that doesn’t fit and then berating us for our justified reactions to poachers and pointing out their psychology? This has nothing to do with your situation.

      My ex’s sidepieces who didn’t know he was married get no ire or hate from me at all. This wasn’t their fault. They may technically be OW but not because they wanted to be. They are victims of him too. They were lied to. Why would I hate or blame an innocent person who got caught in his BS?
      The B word who knew he was married? Now that’s a different story. I despise her.

      So you’re not telling anyone here things they don’t know about OW. Don’t come here condemning the poor wives. No one is condeming OW like you.

      • Dre

        That was not my intent. I apologize if it seemed that way. I feel bad for any woman who has to deal with jerks, or has to deal with women who know about them and still attempt taking a piece of their heart out. Again. I’m sorry. I might’ve misinterpreted this blog. I do apologize.

        • boxingday

          I’ve been sitting here reading through your comments and you sound like someone who’s been taught at a young age to take on the responsibility of other people’s actions or feelings. Maybe a parent who would make you a scapegoat? You’re taking on guilt that doesn’t belong to you: you are not a poacher (someone who intentionally tries to steal someone else’s partner) yet you’re sitting here on a blog about poachers feeling guilty for being in a situation that wasn’t your choice to be in. You’re taking on guilt that belongs to the manipulative asshole who lied to you and his family. You are not responsible for his atrocious behavior.
          You are responsible for your own actions, decisions, and your character in how you deal with the situation from here on out now that you know the truth. I know he’s threatening you to keep you quiet so you’re being forced to be complicit in his lies now, but you don’t have to listen to him. He only wants you to think he’s powerful. He’s not. He only has power when you give it to him. His wife and kids deserve better than this and so do you.
          A counselor would be a good idea to help you deal with everything he put you through, but also to help you unlearn scapegoat behavior and start taking control. Maybe a forum for victims of narcissistic abuse would be helpful for you too. Good luck in all of this.

          • Dre

            BoxingDay, thank you for this advise. I will be looking into it. Very appreciated. ❤️

    • Anon2020

      Dre. You and the bio father keeping this kid a secret from the XW or first birth mother To this man (whatever her status) is dangerous.

      You don’t think these kids will or could possibly find out about each other?

      What is one child needs a life saving surgery and your child could be a match – are you going to keep it a secret then?

      Forget how the situation came to pass. You were an unwitting OW but remained in a relationship being lied to. No blame or judgement from me.

      It’s after the fact that I don’t understand your choices. Innocent lives of children are at stake. And you have the ability to do the right thing but yet you have not. That’s the lie you are complicit in.

      • Dre

        Anon, I have no desire to keep my child a secret, and never have. I just don’t know how I should be the one to decide that. I’m not saying I shouldn’t, but I really don’t know how to fix it. I messed up. He messed up. The kids don’t deserve this. My daughter has always known about her sister because I told her. The father just wanted to have everything so it wouldn’t hurt him. In the long run, I know we all get hurt, and I’m partly to blame. I wish I could make things better for everyone who deserves it, but I can only try and make things better for my child and myself. The father is a powerful man, and I’m not overstepping any boundaries that might make him take my baby away from me. He’s threatened it so many times, and on no causes other than his willingness to hurt me. It slowed down, but I’m still somewhat afraid… but I stay his friend to keep the peace, and my daughter. If you have suggestions, they are fully welcomed. I never wanted to hurt anyone.

        • Kendall


          This post is not about you, so I don’t understand why you are here. This thread is a safe place for women and men who have been betrayed by their spouses.

          The only reason I would think this post would make you angry is because it hits too close to home for you and that would mean you are not telling the whole truth.

          In the end, this post is about a very specific category of women. This post is about women who know a man is married from the very beginning and then this type of woman chooses to doggedly pursue a married man without cease until she gets what she wants, whether it be money, a baby, or even a marriage.

          You may not be a classic spouse poacher, but you got what you wanted: a baby from a male millionaire who was married and you knew this and you still chose to get pregnant with this married man, since you wanted a baby.

          That’s not really fair to the child.

          Also, not everyone here is a Christian. So, please don’t bring out a Bible verse. But, if you want to talk about the Bible, you are a willing partner in breaking the 7th Commandment that forbids Christians to commit adultery. If you dive into the Bible, both people who commit adultery are held accountable, even if one person is single. They are still a willing accessory to breaking a commandment.

          Asking people not to judge is completely bogus. Here is how life works:

          A) A person chooses to do something hurtful of their own free will.

          B) Consequences often follow harmful acts ,that a person engaged in, of their own free will.

          C) Other people who observe a hurtful act will often hold you accountable for your hurtful act.

          Accountability is different than judgement.

          You wanted a baby; that is terrific, but a sperm donor would have been a better option.

          Your daughter will never have a biological father who is truly engaged in her life. She will be the “family secret” even if you love her. She will always know the truth and it will be quite devastating. One day she will wonder why her daddy didn’t want her. And it will really hurt her when that day comes.

          I would recommend that you read the stories of betrayed spouses here and get a feel for what life is like in THEIR SHOES. This blog is here to help people who have been betrayed by their spouses. This is not a blog or a support group for mistresses who got pregnant. I am sure your church family has an adequate support group for you. I would recommend going there. In the meantime, please leave this thread in peace as it is not appropriate to your situation. That is, unless you want to confess your sins here, repent, and truly understand what it is like to be a betrayed spouse.

          Peace out, Dre,


          • Shifting Impressions

            I beg to differ….It’s simply not up to you to SHUT DOWN Dre’s comments. If you don’t want to hear Dre’s story….then don’t read it.

            • boxingday

              I agree. Dre is the victim of a cheater too. She didn’t want to hurt anyone and definitely wouldn’t have been with this guy if she knew he was married. She was lied to, manipulated, and now being bullied into silence. I don’t even consider her to be a real “Other Woman.” She’s a good person and I feel bad that she’s wrestling with guilt for being in a position that isn’t her fault. There’s room here to help cheating victims like her.
              I don’t mind when OW post here if they’re victims too – like Dre – or if they’re remorseful poachers as long as they don’t come in bashing the betrayed spouses. The ones who knew they were having an affair with a married man and aren’t remorseful? F them! F them especially when they come here without remorse to bash us and then refuse to take any responsibility for anything they’ve done. They should get verbally ripped apart every single time and banned.

          • Dre

            Kendall, I told the whole truth. My daughter wasn’t just something I wanted from a rich man. I got pregnant before I knew he had money like that. I believed he was in the middle of a divorce, and yes, I am just as much a sinner as he is. I should’ve told him to pursue a relationship with me after he was divorced, but I Thomas’s the mistake in believing lies. I feel bad for all the spouses who’ve been betrayed, and more so for being a person that was the cause of it. I’m so sorry on behalf of the OW who knew and ones like me who didn’t know, that are still responsible for aiding in affairs. I am sorry.

        • Shifting Impressions

          I’m sorry that so much judgement was thrown at you. I agree with Anon2020…..you are being bullied. It might be wise to get some legal counsel.

          Thank you for sharing your story.

          • Sharon

            Kendall is right sorry Impressions it’s insulting for her to come to this blog for sympathy. This group isn’t for her I agree. She has not been honest. She thought a child would make her married. No one is bullying her she is insulting women here. She must confess that she did this knowingly…… she is not innocent stop shielding her please. She should go to her church group let them tell her what I am saying.

            • Shifting Impressions

              I’m sorry but I disagree. Dre has every tight to share her story here. It’s not up to us to say who can or who cannot share their story here. Also the bullying comment was in regard to the father of her child.

        • Anon2020

          The issue is she found out after a few months he was still married yet she remained with him for years.

          It’s tough to understand staying with him. I’m certain he promised “I’m getting a D” for years so yes Dre was lied to and manipulated.

          She’s still being manipulated by this lying cheater of a jerk. Her child is a secret from half-siblings and he threatens custody.

          I already suggested the next time he threatens custody for her to tell him that she’s glad he’s established paternity which makes the child support request via the courts even easier.

          • boxingday

            Oh! I misread that. I thought she was with him for four years, lived with him, had a baby, and then found out he was married. Now I feel like a dumbass for defending her.

            • Shifting Impressions

              Boxing Day
              There is nothing wrong with showing some compassion. Yes Dre made some poor choices but as Anon2020 says she was manipulated and lied to and it sounds like she is STILL being manipulated and lied to. She was caught in his web of deceit!!!!

    • Anon2020

      He cannot just threaten to take your child away. He needs grounds. He needs verifiable reasons. If you are employed and your child is in school and functioning and living in a safe environment he does not have the right to just decide he gets custody.

      It doesn’t work that way.

      And think of this. The first wife or XW (whatever her status) doesn’t know abiyt your child. Do you think he’s going to take custody of your child and he’s going to suddenly ell her the truth? That there is another child in his life?

      Now I know why you don’t get child support. He’s a manipulative bully.

      Next time he threatens to try to take custody you should inform him that once he demands the child live with him you will be more than happy to obtain child support from him. Because then he will have established paternity.

      He’s not powerful. He’s a bully.

      Get a lawyer. Establish your rights. Demand he sign a custody agreement that you get full custody. Not him. Legally he can take this child from you and move. Yiu then have a court battle. Because you have no custody agreement in place.

      Is he still married to the other birth mother? If so that is your leverage. If he doesn’t want her to find out you can use that to get everything you want.

      If not married to the wife, you need to inform her of the existence of your child. She has a right to know. An attorney &/or private investigator can help. Google this guy’s name. His wife’s or XW’s name will appear.

    • Sarah P.

      Hi All,
      Noticed this thread is getting a lot of activity. All kinds of comments are coming in concerning Dre.

      Dre, can you give me a linear time line of events in terms of what happened in your life?

      When did you meet him and how did you meet him? Through friends? Online? At a volunteer group?

      At some time you discovered he was married.

      Did you continue to live with him after you knew he was married ? Did he string you along with false hope?

      That is, did you know you were with a married man when you lived with him and happened to get pregnant?

      Where was the wife? Usually a man lives in one house or the other.

      Where is the wife in all of this today? Is he still married to his wife?

      Does his wife know?

      I am also seeing that he doesn’t give you child support. Is that correct?

      But, yet he wants to take your child from you? Why?

      Once again I wonder where the wife is in all of this.
      And why does he want your child? If he is married, some wives may not be thrilled about taking another person’s child Into their home.

      What are his motives for wanting your child? I don’t understand what he wants or why.

      I have no idea where you live, but if you live in the USA, you simply head to an attorney and ask the attorney to establish that your child is also his genetic child. If this is the case, most states will garnish a man’s wages. (This is NOT a substitute for legal advice!! I am simply making an observation on one path you could take.)

      Dre, how did you find yourself in this situation?

      I mean no disrespect. I am simply trying to figure out the dynamic that is occurring in your life and why it is happening.

      How did you find yourself on a spouse poacher article? I haven’t read all the comments.

      Here is an article about spouse poaching:


      Again, I haven’t read all the comments and I cannot necessarily say you are a spouse poacher.

      How can we help you?

      • Dre

        Sarah P., I looked up on google “what do mistresses get from a narcissistic married man if he gets her pregnant”. The back story has a lot more detail. I was working at a bar when I met him. He had pursued me for a couple of months, and asked me to hang out with him, but I never would just go home with a man I didn’t get to know first. After a while, I had talked to him through the months, and he had been telling me he was divorced, so I believed him, and hung out with him. We went to one of his places (I only knew of that one at first), and there were no signs of a woman around, so it was even more believable. He then told me he lived in Dallas area, so I just assumed (like many others) that the house I saw was his vacation home. After a few months, I had been to his place in Dallas, and there were no signs of a woman living there either, which made it more believable again. I fell in love with a divorced man, but shortly after that, he called me up around Valentine’s Day and told me he had to admit something. I was ready to bail, but he said he was in the middle of a divorce. This was in 2014. We started seeing each other in 2013. As for being in the middle of a divorce, I juggled the decision in my head for a bit, but decided to stay with him, because I thought he really was, and he had already professed his love to me, so I believed him, and didn’t want to lose who I thought was perfect for me. At that time, I still had no idea about the amount of money he had. I spent a lot of time with him over the next several months, and ended up moving in together around November of 2014. He kept telling me that his divorce was in the works. In December of 2014, I got pregnant. I found out on February 3rd 2015, and I juggled with the decision to stay again, because I started to think he was lying to me. Me decision to stay was based on my child having both parents. He is on her birth certificate. After she was born, I started to pry more about the divorce, because I wanted to know the truth, and I was uneasy, but scared to parent alone. It’s no excuse, and I know that now, but hindsight is always better. I kept quiet most of the time, but would sometimes let the built up pain and resentment out, and he would threaten to take my child from me, because he had what she needed, and I had nothing (his words). Finally, in March 2018, I had called him out for the last time, and he ended it with me, and has threatened to take my child from me several times since then. I know I should’ve left before. I shouldn’t have had a baby with him, and I shouldn’t have believed anything he said, but I did all those things, and I am sorry I messed up. I feel remorse for my actions, and sometimes I really don’t like who I am for it. I knew better. I didn’t follow my gut. I just wanted my child to be happy, even though I wasn’t.

        Ladies, I am so sorry I added to this thread. I felt a sting when I thought everyone thinks we’re all the same. I would change so much about my life if I could, but I do love my child, and she saved my life. I hope y’all can find it in your hearts to forgive me for chiming in where I had no place. I truly would never hurt anyone. I don’t like offending anyone either. I was just trying to make a point that I am not the same.

        • Sarah P.

          Hello Dre,
          You are not a spouse poacher. I also hesitate to call you “the other woman” due to how circumstances unfolded.

          As Shifting Impressions pointed out, it is short sighted time think all other women are spouse poachers. Spouse poachers appear to take up a small proportion of the population (in terms of other women). The reason I wrote this article years ago is because a true spouse poacher will create a situation in a marriage that is like a couple being exposed to a level 8 earthquake on the Richter scale. Everything they once knew will be completely destroyed by a true spouse poacher. Everything. (Also, a spouse poacher is someone who knowingly and deliberately pursues a married man when she sees his wedding ring. These women feel a thrill in pursuing the forbidden).

          Nothing in your story indicates that you are a spouse poacher. Nothing in your story indicates that you were an “intentional other woman.” You didn’t even know that this man was married. He pursued you. You were single. You thought you were dating a single man.

          Also, if you read some of my more current articles they are less dramatic than this one. My writing has evolved. (I guess that would be the phrase for my writing… it has evolved.)

          You don’t need to ask for anyone’s forgiveness because it’s no one’s business but yours.

          In a way, both you and this man’s wife are in the same position: you were both DUPED by a man who (by your account) knew very well how to lead a double life and cover his tracks immaculately. When you found out he was married, you were already metaphorically “neck deep” in water. Since we are humans, emotions make it very difficult to navigate these situations, especially when a woman is dealing with a malignant narcissist.

          The way you describe your daughter’s father makes him appear to be a malignant narcissist. They are masters of deception and masters of twisting the minds of others. Most people don’t even know they have been hit by a malignant narcissist until after the damage is done. A person is left sitting there wondering what the heck just happened.

          If he is on your daughter’s birth certificate, it would make sense to get a free consult with a lawyer and ask what your rights are involving child support. Since it is his child, he owes you some kind of monetary payment, so that you can buy food, shelter, and clothing for your daughter. He helped create her; surely he must take responsibility for her ongoing wellbeing.

          There is an interesting TV show that HBO made and there was a character in the show in a slightly similar situation to Dre’s. It’s called Big Little Lies.


          In this TV show, Nicole Kidman is unknowingly married to an executive who flawlessly leads a double life. Little does Nicole Kidman know that a woman she has befriended was raped by Nicole Kidman’s husband and gave birth to a child. Now, Dre, you were not raped. But, the male character in this show carried on such a flawless double life that there was no hint that he had other lovers or that he raped unwilling women. The show is hard to watch. But, in the end, all the women realize they MUST stick together instead of being each other’s enemies. Once the women learn the lesson of solidarity, is true justice done. The male character with the double life “gets his”
          while the women in town find shelter in each other. It’s a good show.

          Dre, I still want to know where the wife is in this. I just cannot imagine this guy’s wife being okay with him bringing someone else’s child into her home. Many women would tear their husbands a new one for carrying on a double life and then finding concrete proof of his double life, in the form of a child. Also, I would hope wives in this situation wouldn’t take it out on the child. How does he benefit by stealing your child? To what end? How does it benefit him? Is he a coward? Is he hoping that when he presents your child to his wife that his wife will file for divorce so that he doesn’t have to be the bad guy? What I do know is that he doesn’t want your child out of the goodness of his heart. So I wonder why he would bully you into giving her up. Any ideas, Dre?

          Finally, I will share a personal story. I didn’t date until I was 19-years-old. I was terribly afraid of intimate relationships. I wanted to finish college and was afraid of pregnancy. So, I started college early and waited. My first boyfriend was also a college student, but he was two years older. I went to planned parenthood and ensured I got what I needed. Anyhow, he and I had talked about getting engaged. We were both from religious homes (at the time). I had met his parents and on and on. One day, he got an STD and it wasn’t from me because I insisted on condoms and all kinds of things. In the end, I found out he was leading a double life….. with 5 different female students on campus. They were his so-called “friends with benefits.” When I found out, I was enraged with HIM. I broke it off. It turned into a real mess because he couldn’t understand why I could not accept his double life. In the end, I had my family member, who is a well known attorney, send him a cease and desist letter. It also went to his parents house and his dad told him to cut it out. I knew the names of several of the women who were his “friends with benefits.” One day I met one in person. The topic of him came up. She was aware he had a (sort of fiancée) which was me. When she figured out I was his former fiancée, she apologized to me. I told her that she was one of FIVE women and I held no ill will toward her. She, of course, was shocked to find out he had other friends with benefits. He had told her that she was the only one and that she was so beautiful not just couldn’t help himself. He told her on and off he had broken it off with me. And she kept being his buddy.

          But, after I broke up with him, happened to meet her, and after we compared notes, she and I became friends. (LOL). She was so shocked to know that at the time he had me, he had her, and he had four ADDITIONAL women he was stringing along.

          That was my first experience in the dating world. My first serious relationship. And he cheated on me constantly withFIVE other women. I saw him as the problem then, and I see him as the problem even today, when I think back on that experience. He was 21-years-old and had already absolutely nailed the behavior of leading a double life. His father was an executive at a car manufacturer and he felt he was extremely entitled to cheat on me due to his social status. That absolutely did not fly with me.

          I feel compassion for whomever he married. If he had nailed the art of having a double life at the age of 21, I cannot imagine how much more harmful he is today in terms of him leading a double life. Who knows how many women he has gone through with all of them thinking he was either separated or single. I blame him, not the other women.


          Readers, what do you think? I am aware not all women who date married men are other women. I have witnessed events in my personal life where a man has gone to extreme lengths to lure in a woman who is single and who is actually against dating married men. Yet, some men are so good at leading a double life, a single woman has no idea that he is married.

    • Shifting Impressions

      Once again…..THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY!!!! It’s much easier for a BS to put all of the blame on the OW than blame their spouse. In my opinion, it’s shortsighted to think that all the Other women are poachers!!!

    • Sarah P.

      PS- My post to Dre does NOT undermine all the betrayed spouses here.

      Anyone who has read my story knows that my ex got involved with a very calculating spouse poacher when I was nearing 30 years old. My ex and I shared a home together. My ex and I worked together. My ex and I planned on staying together for the rest of our lives. Then, a spouse poacher met him at a networking event and I wasn’t there. I was too busy working on a very high stakes project: bringing 3G cellphones to market in the United States. I was working 14 hour days trying to bring 3G technology to market before our competitors did. I was greatly rewarded by my professional work. But, I didn’t have a lot of time for him, even though he and I slept in the same bed each night and I gave him my full attention after I came home each day. After this spouse poacher succeeded in moving into MY house, did I find out the truth. My ex had been cheating on me. As a result of his infidelity, I got cervical cancer. I had to have surgery to remove the cancer, which endangered my ability to have children. He and I did not have children. But, his affair endangered my ability to have children. I was bullied so that I would leave the house we owned. He had no legal means to remove me from my house, so he and the other woman broke me emotionally until I could no longer do the emotional battle. I could no longer fight to stay in the house and I had to deal with cervical cancer. Here is the most chilling part of my story. My ex was a complete idiot. He gets the blame. But, here is the chilling part. She wanted to meet all of our mutual friends immediately. Over the course of 5 months I had about 30 DIFFERENT people approach me to tell me when she was at dinner parties, she bragged about how she took me down. She had never even met me. She took so much pleasure in destroying a woman she had never met that she bragged about it constantly and I would hear the same thing from various sources. Well, all those mutual friends of ours stopped talking to him after they met her. I did NOT ask anyone to choose a side. That’s not fair. But, when people saw who she was, they wanted NOTHING to do with either of them. My ex had a male best friend that hr had known since he was a toddler. I got along great with his best friend and when we traveled his friend always came with us. His friend was like his brother and I didn’t want to come between their friendship so his (male) best friend was always welcome for dinner, always welcome to go to events, always welcome to travel with us, and the three of us got along well. His best friend was so relieved that I considered him like a family member and invited him everywhere. His best friend got married around the time my ex dumped me for the other woman, who I was not aware of. When my ex introduced his life long best friend to the other woman, his best friend went no contact. Someone told me that his best friend was so shocked at what my ex did, that he realized his “best friend” wasn’t trustworthy. Further, his best friend didn’t understand. His best friend came to regard me as a sister and couldn’t fathom how badly I was treated, since I treated his best friend with such kindness. My ex had no real friends. He lost them all. But, he does have the other woman. And she is keeping a very close eye on him to this day.

      So, I have been through it. I lost my house and got cervical cancer due to a relentless spouse poacher. My story is on the extreme end. And truthfully it still haunts me. My ex was able to carry on a flawless double life for quite a long time. And his selfish actions could have killed me due to a fast growing form of cervical cancer. And I lost my house. I lost my down payment as well. And I lost the person whom I thought was the love of my life. It was BRUTAL. The consequences for me falling in love with the wrong person were far-reaching. And the other woman was a TRUE spouse poacher. The second she found out he was spoken for was the second she decided to relentlessly pursue him. She told people that I knew that it made her feel powerful and awesome to do what she did. And again, she had never even met me. This spouse poacher just took joy from destroying women she didn’t even know. That is what a spouse poacher is: someone who decides to pursue someone she knows is a married person because she takes extreme pleasure and even joy in causing harm to innocent people. That’s a spouse poacher.

      • Dre

        Sarah, your story made me fight back tears, and feel angry at that horrid woman. I just pray that karma is real and they both get what they truly deserve. I’m sad for what you went through.

      • E

        Wow Sarah and other peeps, I miss a lot on this blog in 2020. I guess getting divorced and moving out to your place to figure the next part of your journey takes you away from things. (yes, after 4 years of trying we divorced). Your story always makes me so sad when I read it and I have a few times on other blogs on this website.

        Dre, I don’t have a reason to pick on you or get angry. I feel for you with great compassion and thank you for sharing your story. Gaslighting is a complicated thing. It’s also the one thing that angers me most with the way cheaters create their double life and I’m sorry you experienced what you have. I also think that affairs are not black and white because the story tells more than the assumptions we have. My Ex lied for almost 17 years to everyone. He and the AP both knew and had a double life that is so crazy now for me to even wrap my own head around it. His lies were so intertwined that he had his son with the AP calling him uncle and our kids thinking he was a cousin, then the truth came out. The teenage years were not good for the kids because in the 5 years his son (whom I adore) had a mother who decided to avoid him and he still feels lost in this world as he approaches his 18th birthday. His son with the AP doesn’t speak that much to his father now and the resentment now is there and I can see it. This young man is my friend, I decided that I will be there for him because he didn’t deserve this double life and to find out his true family tree at age 13. my Ex now has to work on building a relationship of any kind with his 3 children (2 of them are mine). My son, he stopped talking to his father about a year ago because he felt that even with all the therapy and family bonding, that his father was still not being accountable. I think there is a great sadness to that because as father my Ex also didn’t try harder.
        I think it’s sad for a person to have a double life, it still doesn’t make sense to me and because it doesn’t make sense to me I can’t judge someone’s elses story either.

        The divorce was the best thing that happened in 2020 for me because even though it was painful to decide to do this it opened a world up to me that staying with my Ex would have. I have much to work on and hope the best for everyone.

    • Reasonable

      Clearly the author of this (as well as most of the target audience) are just as deluded as the author portrays the “other woman” to be.

      What about when the married couple has an open relationship? (Actually open- as in, the “other woman” has hung out with the wife and her boyfriend). Yes- the agreement was to sleep with other people, and nothing more…

      But what happens when birth control fails? Yes, I was one of the 2-3% of people using birth control correctly who became pregnant. No, I definitely did not want to be.

      Regardless- years later, my daughter is perfect. Her father and I do the best we can to work together to put her first. No, I didn’t expect him to leave his family. Yes, he does the right thing and financially supports my daughter, and is a big part of her life.

      Is it ideal? No. Is it what I expected my life to be like? No. Is my daughter surrounded by a loving family, a devoted mother, and secure that she has a daddy that loves her? Yes.

      I feel sorry for the women who the author directed this post to. Vilifying the “other woman” is so easy and perhaps psychologically almost necessary. This post is so fear-driven. Fear is so much on the opposite spectrum of love. When discussing a child- a blameless, wonderful creature- it’s frustrating to read something so caustic. Then again, I realize I’m not the intended audience.

    • Laughing

      Racist (the “colored” comment about about Hugh grant), supposedly “Christian” woman furiously posting alone in coffee shops to other bitter, Karens. Fun fact, not surprising you find your husbands looking elsewhere.

    • Feyfey

      My partner cheated on me and got the other woman pregnant and a little girl was born. I did not find out about the child until she was almost 1 years old. By this time me and him had seperated on a break. It was heart breaking for me as we have a daughter together (she was 2-3 at the time) and I also have a son from a previous relationship and his father did the same thing with multiple children being conceived!
      Me and him did resume the relationship after time apart and decided to make it work.
      The problem is he will not introduce my daughter and the younger daughter.
      My daughters now almost 7 and his younger daughter almost 5.
      He refuses to let them meet. We argue about it every couple of months as I find it unacceptable.
      Me and the mother of the younger child are on common ground. We communicate often (without his knowledge) and the girls have actually met twice (from bumping into each other at parks) but not introduced as sisters.
      He will not give me a reason why he doesnt want them to meet up. He says when hes ready he will do it.
      My issue is my daughter is older and is on the ball, shes very smart and the longer its left the older she gets and the more confusion and questions she will have.
      I dont want her to resent her dad when she figures out how her sister was born. And I also dont want her to resent me and be mad I have known and kept her away from her sister.
      Hes VERY stubborn and hard headed and I can not get through to him. He says if I go behind his back they will both have no dad!
      Any advice??

    • Anon

      Get yourself some professional counseling and advice.

      I think your daughter has the right to know.

      And he can disappear from the kids’ lives but still legally obligated for child support. Any man that says”no dad” is not a man (first of all). He’s hiding something (second of all) and he’s a terrible person for threatening to ghost his children.

      Not sure why you let this sad excuse for a dad boss you around. You can tell anyone anything you wish. If he doesn’t like it — he can leave (which he will do anyway).

      So the children should be lied to b/c if a morally bankrupt guy who has no pride or morals? For someone who doesn’t care to do the right thing?

      I’m sorry. You and the other mom know this is wrong. It’s time to do something – like doing the right thing for those innocent girls.

    • Danielle

      I have a 2 experiences to share…. two stories.

      When I was 19 years old I was dating a man from work. He never wore a wedding ring, never talked about a wife. No one at the factory knew he was married. My mom didn’t like him, said that there was something off about him, but she didn’t really get a say in who I saw as I lived in my own apartment. I worked with my mom as well, so she knew the guy I was seeing. He was only my second lover, the first having been an abusive man who I eventually kicked out when he tried to sell me (yes sell me), and I honestly did not know he was married. He would drive me home from work every night, sometimes he’d stay for a few hours, a very few rare times he stayed the entire night. He lived with his parents, he said, and they needed help. Nights were especially hard for them as they had to take medicines and would often forget. The last time we slept together the next morning about 5 minutes after he left my apartment there was a knock on my door. Standing there with a baby on her hip, a toddler clinging to her leg, and out to here pregnant looking like she was going to give birth any moment was a crying woman. She was sobbing so hard I had to ask her to repeat what she said when she asked me why I was trying to steal her husband. I was shocked. I had no clue he was married let alone had kids. I even asked her who she meant. I confronted him at work that night, and he admitted to me that he was married, and then fed me all the lines I’m sure both of my husbands fed to their mistresses. “She doesn’t understand me. She doesn’t love me. We don’t have sex anymore.” Really? So what? Those kids are all immaculate conceptions? Yeah that didn’t fly and I broke it off immediately. Even though I didn’t know that I had stepped in someone else’s marriage I felt guilty for years. The memory of that poor woman and her children still haunts me over 22 years later. I still think of them, and the pain that she went through. When my first husband started cheating on me in a way I saw it as karma.

      The second story… I was married twice. The first husband I was married to for 18 long years. There were some good times, but mostly there was nothing but pain. He left me about 3 months after we married, left me for another woman. Then he came back a few days later. He was sorry, he’d never do it again. He loved me, and it was just that being married was so final, such a giant leap…. in the 18 years we were married I’d guess that we lived together maybe a total of 13 years, maybe less. I couldn’t have been more than that though. He’d start an affair and leave, then when that relationship died he’d come back. The last affair was the last straw, she was the 8th that I knew of (one of them was my own sister who came to me crying when she caught him “cheating on me”, so yeah he had 2 affairs at the same time there,) and I just couldn’t take it anymore. He hadn’t cheated for at least 3 years, he developed ed and when that happened he stopped cheating, but his doctor fixed his problem and he started seeing the same girl who was his “first ever girlfriend.” I kicked him out and went to my mom and sobbed my heart out. Mom’s gone now, she died about a year later. The first man I met after kicking my first husband out I fell hard for. He gave me all the attention that my first husband had denied me for years. He treated me as if I were special, as if he loved me. We married 4 days after my divorce. 3 months later he left me for another woman. She left him a month later for another man, and then he got a new girlfriend, one who he’d been talking to our whole relationship. She’s pregnant with his child from what I understand. I was told to have an abortion when I got pregnant, and was told it’s not his when I was always faithful. I was ignored my whole pregnancy and adopted the baby out. I hear he’s just thrilled over this baby. My baby is more loved than he will ever know, and I’m still in his life although just on the outskirts of it. I could have kept him, raised him alone with a father who would be gone (my husband has 3 children with his first wife who he’s not seen since he divorced her in 2014), but I just couldn’t. I’m disabled, and my income is so low that after paying the bills I only have $50 left a month. I struggled with the decision for months, the people who adopted him have more than enough money, and they love him. They’re connected to me and always will be and so I have my son in my life still. He’s just 1 month and 11 days old as of today. He’s loved by them, by me. He has a father and a mother. My heart and my mind keep playing this sick game on me, where I imagine my husband coming home. Telling me how sorry he is. That it’d be kind of like it was with my first husband where I forgive, bury my head in the sand, and we have a life together. In those imaginings I explain to my son’s new parents how I need my son, how I love my son, how much it hurts knowing he’s alive, he’s there, and he’s not mine. They gladly give him back to me and my husband, son, and I live happily ever after (well not happily because I know my husband would do it again I found out he cheated on literally everyone he’s ever been with multiple times) or as happily as we could. I know that the woman he’s with now he had sex with while we were still engaged, so I do consider her to be the other woman. In a way too though…. I have compassion for her. They’re engaged, and have been since December (he left in September and moves quick). I know the life she’s in for, and probably is living now. I know he’ll cheat on her if he hasn’t already. Part of me screams she deserves it, part of me says she should expect it knowing what he did with her when he was with me, but part of me says no one deserves this pain. Especially not the child she’s carrying. Especially not my son, who some day I may have to explain it all to and who might not ever understand. There are so many many innocent lives being torn apart, or that will be torn apart, by my husband and his actions. Mine, my son’s, hers, her daughter’s, her unborn child’s, his family will never know my son, so much pain everywhere. So much destruction all caused by one man. Sure the other women who both of my husbands have been with are in the wrong. To me they are more in the wrong than my husbands IF they knew he was married, but… in the end they were just tools used to inflict hurt. My husbands were the ones who made the choice to be unfaithful. Sorry, I just wanted to add in my 2 cents.

    • Paul

      I am a husband and I will say frankly (I know everything about the human reproductive system) NO (most) woman gets pregnant by ‘accident’; wives or mistresses (except for teenage girls and boys?)! So, if a man has a wife who is educated/modern and gets pregnant – he has the best (christian/Godly?) wife. If I had a mistress and she got pregnant, I would love her even more! Sex is recreational and healthy, but,frankly, it becomes a ‘reward/punishment” (drag) system in most marriages/affairs sooner or later – mostly sooner and sometimes on the honeymoon…. (have a title experience of over 30 years of doing random marriage counseling).

      Frankly – men AND women we not built to have a single wife or be the only wife, respectively. The Arabs have it right!

      Point: Want to keep you man to yourself – be ready to have babies and don’t have frequent ‘headaches’…

      • Paul

        I would like to add:

        Don’t ‘fake it’, enjoy it. I don’t consider polyamory, open relationships a bad thing if both are agreeable. Cheating is the problem!

        Please excuse the typos above:
        “keep YOUR man to yourself’
        “…AND women WERE not…”

    • Sarah P.

      A bit on monogamy. There is a myth that humans are not meant to be monogamous.

      That does not hold up when reading the right research. Humans are wired to have offspring and to protect offspring. The average child needs to spend 18 years in a stable, monogamous household, where all financial and emotional assets are spent on that couple’s child.

      When another person – the other woman – enters the picture with a biological child, the emotional assets and financial assets are now divided between children who don’t belong to the same two parents. This leads to tremendous instability and instability is NOT how humanity thrives.

      Humanity thrives on stability, order, clear moral codes which are upheld, and healthy family systems. There is no such thing as a “healthy” polygamous family system.

      I was watching a professor from Stanford who is one of the top behaviorists in the world. He happened to mention that people who are prone to affairs are actually MISSING a gene. The bulk of the population has genes that are wired for monogamy and stability. But, a portion of the population is missing a gene that is responsible for monogamy. This missing gene also predisposes a person to life-long addictions.

      Now, let me clarify. Someone who is a serial cheater is most likely missing the gene responsible for monogamy.

      Someone who is a one time cheater, is often acting out of opportunity that is irresistible, in that moment. The person can still be wired for monogamy, but a series of events can happen, which I refer to as “the perfect storm,” and someone who believed they could NEVER have an affair, finds themselves in an affair. The perfect storm is usually due to mid-life crisis, an unexpected death, job loss by the primary bread winner, and on and on. That can cause someone who never cheats, to find themselves in an affair.

      As for the Arabs….

      If plural marriages ever became legal, I would not get married or date. You see, any time someone has sex, they are actually mingling their bacterial biomes. I don’t want another woman’s bacterial biome, inside my body. 🤢

      Men, it also goes both ways. If a woman is having sex with multiple men, she will carry a man’s bacterial biome with her. So, if you have an intimate moment with her, you will be getting another guy’s bacterial biome. 🦠🦠🦠🤮🤢

      I dunno. Just my 2 cents.

      • Paul

        Great comment, I do not wish to enter into a long debate about this, so I will state some points on what I believe and discovered over the years:

        1. Professors, Universities and similar work towards getting grants from governments and businesses. Their task is to make ‘economics’ work (and justify the grants). Divorce/Separation etc are FANTASTIC economic tools which keep lawyers in business.Happy marriages don’t help anyone.
        2. Yes, some are not built for monogamy and some are built that way. That is why there are very successful monogamous marriages in cultures where polygamy/polyamory is practiced.
        3. The BIOLOGICAL (SCIENTIFIC) FACT is that men need sex at least twice a week (to keep a healthy prostrate, etc) while women ‘need’ it only once/twice every 28 days. Women need foreplay – men don’t. Women need sex when they are ‘happy’, men need it when they are stressed/unhappy (mostly). Hence why all busy and successful men have affairs (I said ALL).
        4. Today, COVID-19 (Coronavirus) has proven one thing – that Politicians, Scientists and Doctors are incompetent – to say the least, or this is exactly what they want because the top 1% is getting ‘richer’…

        Your own answer/comment has all the answers, think about your own answer by re-reading it.

        If you have the time and opportunity read: The world, A brief History (combined volume)’ by Felipe Fernandez-Armesto

        Somebody also wrote: ‘Liberalism is a mental illness’ – but the Mainstream Media (MSM), for obvious reasons, discredits it.

        Stay safe.

        • Sarah P.


          Love your intellect. Please comment as much as you want. We learn by discussing different viewpoints.

          Okay, I am going to drop a rated R bomb. (Sorry Doug and Linda).

          In the past eight years of doing only infidelity work, I have discovered that there are many women who would be happy with sex twice a week. Some women would be happy with sex once a day.

          I have met men with a much lower libido than their wives. It is devastating to the wives who have higher libidos.

          Yes, men need sex for prostate health. And I am going to write an informational (long) limerick about how to solve prostate issues, while NOT having an affair.

          Pretty Miss Rosy Palm grew up on a farm,
          Her constant availability had a certain charm,
          She never bored men with idle chatter,
          Doesn’t care if you are getting fatter.
          And she has relocated to the end of your arm.

          She doesn’t care if you watch porn.
          For this is when she is in full form,
          Sometimes she even makes dinner.
          And Rosie won’t call you a sinner.
          Best of all, she’ll never make you feel forlorn.


          Your turn.

          • Paul


            My (late) father knew a real-life ‘Rosie’ when he worked for the world’s richest enterprise (not American but still is the richest). He was given the task to find out why she was doing what she did because it was not prostitution. She told my father “Sir, these boys and men have come thousands of miles away from their wives and girls to give them a better life, but I have seen how these girls/women ‘enjoy’ the money… so, I decided to come here to show them my gratitude and appreciation which their wives/girls don’t”. She was discharged, honourably (without punishment of any sort). I trust she is doing well somewhere. I have known two more ‘Rosies’ in my life in two different countries… all three ‘Rosies’ I have known (of) have belonged to 3 different races.

            1. If there is a ‘God’ who says he/it is (only) a Hindu God, Jewish God, Buddhist God, Christian God, Muslim God, etc; then I will state without reservation – that is not a God, that is a madman.
            2. Since institutionalized marriage and monogamy stems from ‘religion’…
            3. Most men in the world are greateful to Hue Hefner (and the likes) and their bathroom/washroom for their prostate health and sanity; a few lucky ones are be able to afford the real thing and a precious few have had the pleasure of a ‘Rosie’.
            4. Politics is a religion where money is God!

            Something (seemingly funny) when we advice young couples:

            ‘When you are 20, the man can go 20 times per day or more and the woman wants it only a few times per month; when you are 60+ the man can barely go once a week and the woman (especially on HRT) can go many times per day/week.”

            MS Media likes to harp on how COVID has increased ‘domestic violence’, etc. The fact is that all the marriages and families we know that had issues have been able to sort out the problems because of COVID lockdowns.

            Women and men with low-libido should read up on Proviron (Mesterolone) {get medical advice…) – I am NOT a doctor!

            Stay safe – signing out.

    • Sarah P.

      Oh boy… are you American?

      That poem I wrote was a joke. Since we are all adults here, Rosie Palm is NOT a human being and Rosie Palm is NOT a woman.

      Rosie Palm, is the hand at the end of a man’s arm.
      👍 🙌🏼

      As for God, I suppose you will meet that “mad man” for yourself, one day and ask Him all about the meaning of life. 🎉❤️🙏

      Also those stereotypes about alleged sexual libido mis-matches, no longer apply. It’s just that older generations of women were told – when they were teens – that only horrible girls enjoy the touch of a man. It took many women years to shake that stereotype.

      To all male readers, 80% of women require a lot of external stimulation before and DURING the act. If you can master that, women’s migraines will evaporate. 👍


    • Sharen

      This is absolutely flawed. You ought to be certain that your statements are 100% applicable to every individual comprised in the “other woman” group before you go on a misguided and misinformed rant about the “other woman’s” intentions. Shame on you for writing this and shame on you for supposing the circumstances around becoming pregnant by a married man. This article is neither wholly accurate nor helpful. I trust that cognitive dissonance will make it impossible for you to recognize just how flawed your approach and reasoning is; however, I implore you to try.

      • Sarah

        The article is not written for you. It’s written for betrayed wives, who have to live with the fallout of events, they did not choose.

        People take vows, when they get married, that they forsake all others.

        There are some great support groups for affair partners. I would kindly ask you go to those support groups.

        This website is a safe space for innocent betrayed men and women, who have been deeply harmed, due to infidelity.

        Thank you, Sharen,


      • boxingday

        No, no one needs to make anything 100% applicable to any group. She’s talking about specific types of other women. This is generally applicable to that group. I’m sorry you have zero reading comprehension skills to understand that from the very straightforward article. Maybe your defensiveness got in the way of your reading comprehension skills?

        Here are things that are 100% applicable to all “other women” who knowingly sleep with married men. (In case your lack of comprehension doesn’t understand this, “knowing” means those who know the man is married and choose to have an affair with him for any reason whatsoever. So that means this group doesn’t include those who didn’t know the man was married):

        1) Other women are selfish above and beyond normal people because it takes a vast amount of selfishness to do something like that.
        2) Other women are immoral.
        3) Other women are narcissists who think they are above criticism and can’t handle hearing the TRUTH about themselves and think they are above the rules. They have no problem hurting someone else but think they don’t deserve the slightest bit of criticism back or suffer any consequences of their own choices and actions.
        4) Other women never take responsibility for their own behavior. They always deflect and blame others or minimize what they’ve done.
        5) Other women are extremely dishonest.
        6) Other women are broken and have no self respect. People with self respect and basic human decency don’t knowingly sleep with married people. FULL STOP.
        7) Other women are losers at life because they’re so pathetic and desperate that married people are their best prospects since they can’t get a quality person on their own.
        8) Other women are anti-women because they don’t care that they hurt innocent women and destroy their lives and the lives of the children as well. They’re always hateful and evil towards the poor, innocent wives they hurt.
        9) Other women have bad character. It doesn’t matter what other nice things they do in life to cover up their inner nastiness.
        10) Other women are immature, have low intelligence, and are ugly inside and out,

    • Sarah P.

      The one common thread here is that this thread is for betrayed spouses.

      We have all experienced the devastation of being betrayed spouses.

      This is our place, to safely support one another, in this journey.

      Until a person’s marriage has disintegrated into thin air, due to an affair, no one can truly understand, except for those of us who have experienced it first hand.

      The trauma caused by infidelity is often something that cannot be put into words. But, betrayed spouses, have LIVED the experience, and we all have an understanding of the feeling.

      This is a safe zone for betrayed spouses, who require a safe place, where they are understood, and uplifted by others, walking similar journeys.

      If there are any “other women” or “other men” reading this thread, I would implore you NOT to troll this thread. I would implore you to find a support group for yourselves. 🙏


      • Elena

        Trolling or telling it like it is? Seems like this thread is to bash mistresses and not hold the cheating men accountable. This mentality is the very reason why men will continue to cheat. Leave married men alone and the mistresses are trash.. ok! The married men are saints who were forced to sleep around. They are innocent and should be rewarded. Poor married men they can do no wrong. Damn the mistress for stealing him away and forcing him to be unfaithful. The married man forgot he was married right? Blame it all on the mistress…

    • Paul not Hardcastle

      I am Back (no, I am not Swartz-a-neeger) 😀 . Paul again,

      Just some very sincere advice to all concerned:


      All problems in the world have multiplied by a tangent since world war two and now politicians are using COIVD to accelerate even further. Women have been dealing with pregnancies, mistresses, abuse etc for thousands of years. Suddenly after WW2 natural things are ‘difficult’. Nobody talks about the countless abuse men and boys undergo by women. Nobody talks about the countless women who take multiple men/boys (Histresses?).I knew women (plural) who go to colleges/high-schools and ‘poach’ upto 3 boys for ‘afternoon entertainment’ regularly.

      I believe that it is I who brought to light the countless boys/men who get ‘abused’ by married women, bosses and teachers, etc in a G7 country.

      Every big-shot, especially ‘royals’ have mistresses. The British Royal family is a perfect example.

      This website is important (as a business too) – nobody should ‘condemn’ this site. To be blunt (appreciatively) it is a crutch for the men and women who feel it is always the mistresses else’s fault.

      Stay safe. I cannot expose myself too much. But we are all victims of a world-order that creates misery as a powerful economic engine.

      I fell ‘out of love’ with Bruce Springsteen after I learned what a shameless liberal crony he is (opinion), I own all his songs until 2017. Quotes from a couple his songs:

      ‘Badlands, you got to live it everyday, let the broken hearts stand as the price you got to to pay…’

      ‘Spare parts and broken hearts keeps the world turning..’

      The next quote (from Bruce) is a what I am doing right now about the world order:

      ‘I am gonna sit back right easy and laugh, when the scooter and the big man busts this city in half’.

      And to end by quoting Sting (POLICE):

      ‘Synchronicity’ (yes all you wives, mistresses, this web site, myself, etc all are part of ONE BIG synchronicity’

      Don’t believe me? Look at Japan right now! The olympics have always been entertaiment for the ELITE! Througout the years then have progessively eliminated the commoner as a spectator (the commoner as an ‘athlete’ who is there to entertain the ‘elite’ are allowed.) So, Olympics happen while the poor mom-and-pop operation has to shut down. Wimbledon is another GREAT example!

      BTW: I am ‘elite’. My family has been ‘elite’ for the last 8 generations! Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Vishnu were all ‘elite’.

      I wonder if any women dealing with a ‘mistress problem’ has ever thought of ‘polyamoury’ (legal in Canada and some other countries) and ‘threesomes’. Life just might become worth living, fun and easy – especially economically.

      Stay safe, love one another (as I have loved you).

      • boxingday

        Why are you here?

        What in your mind thought gee, I should go to a forum for people who were cheated on and recruit for poly lifestyles? This is really gross.

        Please go away

    • Agnes

      No Paul I for one cannot think of threesome my aunt recommended but I think sometimes our makeup values do not allow us to do it. Might be better to leave and meet a new person than continue with a problem. Life is tough!

      • boxingday

        I’m pretty grossed out by the suggestion that if we get cheated on we should just somehow magically be okay with that and “open” the marriage and that will somehow make it all better.

        The poly community is pretty gross. Very few of them are truly able to handle it because there is a lot of poaching that ends up happening and destruction. They have a very hard time keeping women in the community too so they’re always out trying to recruit them. It’s almost like it’s totally not worth it and the majority of women are only pressured into situations like this by selfish men not because they really want to be.

      • Paul not Anka


        Happily for me you seem to be the only one on the right path to understanding my abstract philosophy. I am not being literal in any of my suggestions.

        The ‘trending’ NEWS these days is about the (thousands of) unmarked graves of children in Canada MURDERED by Catholic nuns and priests. My family has had catholic fathers (and nuns) since the year 1505, thankfully, not in Canada.

        I have lived amongst the 1st nations. What the ‘Europeans’ did not get is that the 1st nations had (and have) ABSOLUTELY NO NOTION of ownership (that is how the Europeans were able to ‘colonize’ all regions such as Africa and Asia) . They don’t know and understand the concept of ownership, especially in the North of Canada (to date). They have zero value for Gold.

        So, the ‘Europeans’ just could not deal with it. They owned nothing! A couple got ‘friendly’, had sex, had a child and the community nurtured the child, and it went on. Even to date, they ‘borrow’ idling bikes, boats, vehicles and just leave them after use. I know a 1st nation who borrowed a boat to go fishing and then returned it later.

        The ‘European’ also could not deal with ‘sexy’ women in India, Sri Lanka, etc – especially Sri Lanka, who did not cover their breasts. For South Asians the breast were there to feed the offspring (1st nations covered the breast because of the cold) – an important tool for survival of the human race – and not to get ‘horny’. The working class were required to wear a ‘bra’ because they could ‘damage’ the breasts and not be able to feed the offspring… women with children were generally not allowed to work especially if they were breast feeding… A lactating mother would feed other children in the community. The ‘common feeding’ still happens in families and close communities. The British, especially, (actually Irish, Scottish, Yorkshireman, Welsh and a very little English) just could not handle it while the Portuguese (and Spanish) and Dutch were more prone to ‘enjoy the scenery’…

        The frustrated, celibate, priests and nuns (especially the nuns -even to date) just could not understand a community thriving without ‘Jesus’ while ‘humping-around’. So, they killed children in their quest to give them ‘Jesus’ (I am really upset with the church of today and also the Pope for not accepting blame).

        Another thing the 1st nations did not understand is penalizing and jails. If somebody got out of line he/she was counseled…

        So, the point: OWNERSHIP and PENALIZING is the problem (selfishness stems from ownership and penalizing stems from the need to take revenge – and divorce lawyers make millions…). Something the ‘European’ had and the 1st nations/(South) Asians did not have! It is OWNERSHIP that leads to ‘poaching’ and “I have a headache tonight honey…”.

        I will say one thing: If a man cannot AFFORD to have two or more wives and families he should not be screwing around! That is perverse. Use the ‘lady of the night’. This is why ‘having a mistresses’ is taboo for the poor-class and not for elites like Prince Charles!

        Again, you can correct and control ONLY yourself. If you don’t accept this basic rule of life which is taught in every management course/degree then you cannot manage your life, husband, cash, mistress.

        My daughter is very highly educated. She earns well. Married and pregnant. We taught her that education gives her the freedom to live without being dependent. She is a perfect wife and a fantastic cook. He husband is the master of the house. She is ‘christian’ but knows that ‘other lifestyles’ are not necessarily a bad thing. As Canadians say “to each’s own- Eh?”

        “If you love somebody, set them free” – Sting.

        I am a political history ‘scholar’ as well. By the 1500s the church got tired of being called ‘the poor man’s religion’ – so they did a ‘deal’ with the European monarchs. The monarchs wanted the ‘cardinal sin’ to be something else other than wealth/money. So, the church picked on ‘sex’ as the cardinal sin, and ‘all hell broke lose’. If the monarchs were found to be ‘philandering’ the archbishop was able to absolve them of sexual sins because monarchs were representatives of gods on earth unlike the peasants… Keep in mind that the Jesuits also became estranged with the church around this time because they found a relationship between the stars (astrology) and the birth of prophets…

        “Imagine there’s no heaven,… Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man, Imagine all the people -Sharing all the world” John Lennon (executed!)

        ’nuff said 🙂

        Stay safe. A cheating spouse and a poaching mistress (histress) is the least of your worries in the present world!

        Unsolicited advice: Try to unite with the ‘poacher’ and form an economic bond where the three of you can nurture the offspring and reduce your economic burdens. Even if not sexual, it will make the world that much more peaceful and beautiful.

        This is a great website. I wish they had a PayPal ‘donate button’.


    • Anita

      I AM THE MOST HAPPIEST WOMAN ON EARTH RIGHT NOW FOR NOT LOOSING MY HUSBAND TO A DAUGHTER OF JEZEBEL. So sad my Husband was having an affair with a college girl whom he didn’t know I knew about. Everything little mistake my husband would pick on me and leave the house for weeks.

    • donna

      I was married 25 years before I divorced. As far as I know, my first husband did not cheat on me, but my second husband cheated before we were married a year. I would NEVER intentionally get involved with a married man and cause another woman the hurt I experienced, but I have dated married men because THEY ARE LIARS. Half the guys on dating sites are married men pretending that they are single. Some married men use LinkedIn to look for dates under the radar. I dated for a long period, a man who I had dated some years ago, but who had since married and didn’t bother to tell me.

      Yes, there are women who pursue marry men because I have several who flirted openly with my husband, but many more women become involved with married men because your husbands are LIARS. The things I have seen your husbands do behind your backs, makes me feel sorry for you. and has soured me toward marriage. You will never get rid of the women who want married men, but the odds are, your husband LIED to the woman with which he is having an affair and she did not know about you in the beginning. The blame for your husband’s affair is 100% his fault because he is the one who made the commitment to you and who betrayed you.

      • boxingday

        Thank you for schooling us, Donna. You clearly have a superior intellect. I know I would never have known such an obvious fact that most people over the age of 12 know if you hadn’t just schooled me.

        You came to a forum about women WHO PURPOSELY GO AFTER MARRIED MEN and then proceeded to NOT read it and have the audacity to tell the mostly women but a lot of men too who in pain and who are the innocent victims that they’re stupid and how they should think and feel because this other thing over there that has nothing to do with our situations happens. You must be young.

        Funny, I bet you didn’t seek out whores and cheaters to school them. But somehow only us victims need the talking to by you.

        • E

          Amen Sister totally said perfect!


    • boxingday

      To the cheating partners or self-righteous jerks who might feel the need to comment here to school the cheated-on partners:

      1) We KNOW the cheaters are to blame. We do blame them. OBVIOUSLY. Just because we’re venting here about their asshole cheating partners doesn’t mean we’re not also blaming the people who cheated on us. You dummies realize people can do both those things at once, right? Talking about one right now doesn’t mean we don’t also talk about the other. DUH.

      1A) We KNOW cheaters lie to their cheating partners (and everyone else). HELLO?! How would we not know that very obvious fact?! We know they lie about us. We’ve heard it. We’ve caught them lying to our faces (obviously), we’ve gotten wind of the lies they tell their whores and others about us and our marriages. It’s PAINFUL! We try hard to tell people the things they say are lies. Our marriages weren’t horrible like they portray to their cheating partners. We are awesome and not monsters like they lie to about to their cheating partners. Funny how NO ONE sticks up for us when talking about cheater’s lies when they’re about us and no one wants to listen to us when we scream to the rooftops about their lies.

      1B) We KNOW cheaters lie to innocent women who wouldn’t otherwise choose to be a cheating partner. WE AREN’T STUPID! NO ONE blames them. NO ONE is hating on them. THEY ARE NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT HERE. You would know that if you actually read it. So STFU about it. If you come here because you were unwitting cheating partner, you obviously feel guilty or else you wouldn’t be looking it up. It’s not your fault. No one is blaming you. If you’re feeling butthurt about us talking about the people who knowingly and purposely go after married people ask yourself why you’re choosing to wear that shoe that right now if it doesn’t belong to you and why you’re getting angry at the victims?

      1C) We KNOW cheaters lie to innocent women because SURPRISE SURPRISE some of us have been on that side too! Isn’t that amazing that we are actual real people and we amazingly have life experience too?! When I got divorced after my cheater cheated and left, it was disgusting and stunning that I had married friends I’ve known for years suddenly contact me behind their wives backs giving me a bullshit sob story about their “terrible” “unhappy” marriages. I was pissed that they’d think I would be that stupid after my lying sack of shit ex told those exact same lies about me and our marriage! Did they really think I would fall for that?! Did they really think I would do that to their wives after what happened to me?! That was insulting. Despite the insane pain I was feeling, the jealously of other couples, the desperate need to feel validated, loved, and wanted…I am not a selfish piece of crap asshole so I wouldn’t do that to other people and I called them out. As if we’re soooooooo stupid we don’t know this happens! YES, WE KNOW.

      2) People who poach are EQUALLY to blame. It is DISGUSTING, IMMORAL, and f’ed up to cheat with married people and to seek it out. There is no excuse. They do it because they are terrible, broken people who think that by “winning” a married person they are better than someone else. It’s an ego boost because they know they’re lowly shit that doesn’t measure up to other people and this is the only way they feel good about themselves. If you are one of these people who come here because you knowingly and purposely had an affair with a married person, aim the anger you’re projecting at the wives back on to yourself where it rightfully belongs. Go to therapy.

      2A) We are allowed to talk about and criticize these screwed up, terrible people and hold them accountable for their choices and actions!!!!! Their actions not only deeply hurt people, they literally destroy lives. EVERYONE should talk about them and hold them accountable. Everyone should feel disgust by that.


      Ask yourselves why you’re so angry at the victims? It’s not hard to put yourself in our shoes and think about how you’d feel and what you’d want to vent about. I hope you all dig deep and ask yourselves why you need to seek us out to take your f’ed up anger out on and why you feel the need to police us and our emotions. But you don’t go after cheaters and whores at all. Isn’t that really funny? This just makes you a screwed up, uncompassionate jackass.

      I hope no one in your life treats you the way you feel like you need to treat us when you go through a life-altering, hugely painful event. I hope the people in your life have more sense and compassion than you do so you get the space to heal and understanding that you need when it happens to you. I hope no one goes to you while you are processing through the pain, confusing, grief, and anger to police your feelings and thoughts because they think you should think or feel differently (especially when they haven’t been through it).

      If you have that weird compulsion to comment and tell us these things, just stop and stfu. Do some soul searching.

    • Yours Truly 🙏

      Here is an interesting observation. In my offline life I am aware of two separate single women fighting tooth and nail to break up the marriages and families of two wealthy men in my community.

      One of the women talks quite openly about it. She has met the wife, knows they have three young children, BUT she speaks to anyone who will listen about how she got an online tarot reading, and allegedly the tarot reading said this married man was her soul mate. She believes it’s now her duty to fight dirty to break up his marriage. She believes she is “saving him” from being married to the wrong person. (She believes this married man with children is the right person due to a tarot reading).
      She calls him her “twin flame” and it’s her duty to save him from being married to someone else. She also wants to start a family with him. 🤷‍♀️

      I wonder if she has one of those plastic 8 balls at home where you ask it a question, shake it, and it says “yes, no, maybe.” Do they make those anymore? If they do, it’s probably her other source of advice.

      Who in their right mind believes she is saving a man by doing everything to break up his marriage and break the hearts of his wife and children?

      No one in their right mind thinks this way, yet this spouse poacher somehow has a reasonable job and has an excellent social facade. She refers to herself as someone who brings “love and light” wherever she goes.

      They exist and the whole “love and light” thing is a red herring they use hoping people will let their guard down.

      And the two male (recipients) in these situations were NOT looking for anything.

      Spouse poachers: if you are reading here is a bit of advice.

      1) You are not special.

      2) He lies to you just as much as he lies to his wife.

      3) He continues seeing you because you are not turning down his advances. Umm… grandma talks about cows and free milk. 🐄

      Grandma is smart. Listen to her.

      4) You are not “better” than the wife and can never be since you are starting a relationship off on the WRONG foundation. 🚫

      5) He and his wife DO have a love life and sleep in the same bed. 🎊🛏

      6) If you succeed in breaking up his relationship, congratulations, you just bagged a cheater 🎉🎁

      • boxingday

        Yep! You knocked it out of the park with your comment! And you spoke the TRUTH!!!! It’s funny how they think we’re the ones who are blind and not living in reality when it’s the other way around especially after we’ve discovered the affairs and live with the aftermath.

        I love how the Other Women think they’re not being lied to at all when they live in a bubble of lies. Nothing they know is reality. They think the person dishonest and immoral enough to cheat on his wife is the one telling the truth. How delusional is that?!

        One thing I want other women to see and really take in and I mean really let this sink in:
        They lie to YOU about EVERYTHING.
        I caught my ex talking to his whore and I heard the lies he told her. He even lied about little stupid things like what he liked to eat!
        I saw receipts for places they went to eat that I know he HATED. And no, he didn’t tell me he hated it because they went there and he wanted to keep me away from it. He told me he hated it because he did! He hated that place long before her skank ass ever entered the picture. I actually called him out on it and he stumbled lying “Oh, well that location is good” (there were 3 locations) No it’s not!

        He’s miserable choking down food he hates because whore has terrible taste and he has to pretend to be a different person to her to fit her better – he has to pretend to be more like her to mirror her and lie to her so she thinks he’s her soulmate and they have more in common than they do. Seriously, whores, let that sink in because that is the truth and reality right there.
        That illusion can only last so long. So I hope you whores know that when the ego boost and thrill of doing something bad wears off and reality sets in, the person he “suddenly changes into” was the real person he was all along. He was just lying to you and pretending to be someone else in the beginning.

        And he hated her when he met her. And no, he wasn’t trying to throw me off the scent of his affair. He was laughing at how ugly she was and talked about how much he hated her until they their affair started. He went after her because the people he was actually fishing for had enough decency to turn him down. She was the only loser willing to do it. So when you’re sitting there feeling smug that you’re better than his partner- YOU ARE NOT! He chose you because you’re a pile of trash who was willing to do it. Not because he actually likes you. And that, ladies, IS THE TRUTH!

        And honeys, just know that no one of quality ever allows themselves to be stolen. You can only “steal” trash. You deserve the trash you steal because you are trash too. Only trash people poach. You will never be better than the wives because you’re not even a baseline decent person.

    • A girl with respect for self

      Ironically I was searching for articles about child birth as I am 8 months along and getting antsy. I am married to my husband and no issues here, but I decided to read your article out of boredom. Firstly thank you for writing something that happened to distract my anxious thoughts. Secondly before stumbling on your article I was reading about so many things that can happen during labor. I was thinking you do not speak very empathetically toward child birth. I understand you must come from a scorned point of view but declaring it was Hugh Grants girlfriend’s lucky day to get pregnant by a asshole? I mean come on even the other women you talk about were swindled by a married guy and now have to raise a baby alone that’s so sad. I would never keep a cheating husband because I respect myself more than that and I would have sympathy for anyone else afflicted by such a harmful person aka the cheater. Your talking about babies mamas and calling the babies bastards! Don’t you understand child birth is life threatening/altering? You call the wife a princess as opposed to bring the other woman. Yeah a princess that kisses frigs and is happy to claim that title of frog wife I spose 🙄

    • A girl with self respect

      I can not edit my comment but, just wanted to say I’m sorry that the women in here are going through this and anger is totally legit in this situation. I just feel like I wouldn’t work it out if it were me. I mean there is so many fish in the sea. Also, I do hold people that sleep with married people accountable but I do feel like my husband is my friend first and i guess if he didn’t love me like that anymore it would hurt but I would move on. I was single for awhile when him and I met and am just independent that way. I have faith their is other people that would be great as well. I think I would be sad because I would miss speaking to him everyday and learning to be just friends. But, even if I love him I love myself the most and could not possibly allow that kind of disrespect. I don’t think any of you women should either. Be good to yourselves and you will attract a good man. I feel like some of your willingness to be together at all cost maybe paved the way for a disrespectful person to enter your life. If you have string boundaries and a confident disposition I feel that is like repellent to assholes.

    • MP3 JUICE

      I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through this difficult situation. It’s heartbreaking to think that your husband would betray your trust in this way, and it’s understandable that you’re feeling hurt, angry, and confused. It’s important to remember that you don’t deserve to be treated this way, and that you deserve to be loved and respected by your partner. Take care of yourself and seek support from loved ones during this difficult time.

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