The Ultimate Poach: When Your Husband Gets the Other Woman Pregnant

When Your Husband Gets the Other Woman Pregnant

By Sarah P.

Wives, knowing what your husband has done with the OW, does not have to ruin your marriage.

Linda and Doug have been receiving many emails lately where wives have unfortunately found out their husband’s mistress is pregnant OR their husband already has had a child with his mistress/OW. So they asked me if I’d like to create a blog post on the topic.  I said absolutely!

This is going to be a very harsh and unforgiving post for “other women” of this world. But, it is going to be even more unforgiving for the “other women” of this world who make the choice to go off their birth control and who intentionally get pregnant.

Today I am going to write about the icky realities of what happens when the other woman gets pregnant. Note: married men are half of the problem in these situations. So, I will talk about them later in the article. Finally, I will discuss what options wives in these situations have.

Let’s just dive right in….

A Message to the Other Women Who Get Pregnant or Plan to Get Pregnant

In this modern age where you can get an IUD that lasts 10 years and costs very little money, it always amazes me that other women pretend pregnancy just happened.

Oops. They spilled the milk – sorry—things happen.

Pregnancy is not a simple as spilling milk. It is more than an “Oops, these things happen.”

Getting pregnant with a married man’s child, is simply the ultimate tactic to poach another woman’s spouse.

If any mistresses are reading this and have gotten pregnant by a married man, please do not tell me that you are just so fertile that IUD’s, birth control, and condoms are no match for your Fabulous Fertility. You are lying.

I too have Fabulous Fertility- the second I am off the pill and have one experience with my husband, a new child is conceived. I have learned how to ensure that my Fabulous Fertility is under control.

So, if you are the other woman, please do not tell me that this was an “oopsie” on your part. Please do not tell me that your fertility is a thing of legends and you can get pregnant if a man stares into your eyes from across the room. I bet you say your uterus can slay dragons too.

Other women of the world: you know that is not how it works, so please do not pretend to be an innocent ingénue. Please do not pretend that you were jogging in the park, minding your own business, tripped on a rock, and then suddenly found yourself grinding your body on top of a married man.

Woman to woman, we both know that is not how it happens.

Considering there are studies that demonstrate many women of the world prefer married men, drop the act. I know how it went down. You pursued him—you hoped he would leave his family—he did not. You intentionally got pregnant.

Other women of the world, you knowingly got involved with a married man. Maybe it was because you fooled yourself into believing this person who was cheating on his wife was your soulmate. (Not a very smart move on your part—your soulmate is someone who ruins the life of his family and who lies and cheats? That says a lot about you.)

Or maybe he was one of those sad, sad, sad men who told you with lowered and ashamed eyes, that his wife never had sex with him. Ever.

His five kids? Oh, those were conceived simply by looking at his wife. They never actually had sex.

You see, it turns out that his wife was actually more like a common cuttlefish. The wife wore her eggs in her face and waited for his face to deposit sperm into her face eggs. He just deposited sperm into her face eggs with his face tube, but they never actually had sex. See a humorous video about the cuttlefish where they demonstrate face-mating.

But, alas, the man is only a mere human and so is his wife. So he could not possibly have face-mated with his wife.

That act is reserved only for cuttlefish. In fact, cuttlefish are also monogamous and more intelligent than most human beings are. Just go to your local aquarium, find the cuttlefish tank, and start holding up your fingers.

The cuttlefish will communicate back by mimicking the gesture and holding up it’s own face fingers. No joke.

I went to the Monterey Aquarium and did this with the friendly cuttlefish in the tank. The aquarium employee said they were a tank full of males. (Poor things). She pointed out how the one cuttlefish I was speaking with (via holding up different fingers) was changing colors in an attempt to show me how he had it goin’ on. He thought himself to be one handsome cuttlefish and liked my fingers.

Talk about open minded. The cuttlefish males are so desperate; they are willing to seduce a human hand, which I suppose could look like a cuttlefish in the right lighting. But, at least when a cuttlefish finds its sweetheart, he is monogamous.

Onto the less monogamous species, humans…

We never have sex…

I have spoken to the wives in these situations where a man claims to have never had sex with his wife. (Doesn’t that mean the marriage can be annulled?) Moving on… the wives of such men have usually told me they were having very frequent sex with their husbands.

So, why would you believe a man who is a liar and who is trying to get your sympathy? If he is lying to his wife, he is telling you—a stranger—the truth.

You don’t think he was capable of lying even though he was capable of cheating with you?

Wow, it’s your lucky day!

I have some unbuildable swampland in Louisiana where you can build a future casino, if you would like. Funny thing that this actually happening—building a casino in swampland, correlates to the very odds that a married man will actually leave his family for you.

Around 90% of cheating men choose to stay with their family (if they have the choice and aren’t left by their wives.) But, if their wives leave and you marry them, you will be just “another relationship.”

The cheater you married will be bored before you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and off he will go on his steed searching for yon sexual conquest.

At one time or another, you will probably figure out that the cheating man will not leave his family. Hint—it is around the time he starts giving you a million reasons why he cannot divorce.

Maybe his wife broke her toe, maybe his wife stepped on a garden snail and is overcome by grief, maybe the dog barfed on the carpet and your married lover cannot leave until the new carpet arrives. But, he and his wife don’t have the cash in the bank to buy new carpet, so they need to save up for new carpet—and that may take years. Re-carpeting a living room costs millions of dollars.

You have probably developed a deep hatred for the evil wife who stands between you and your fonfon ru. (Futurama reference, equivalent to soulmate.)

You are so frustrated and you want to have tadpoles with your fonfon ru.

So, getting pregnant with a married man’s child somehow seems logical to you. It does not sound logical to me—it sounds like the biggest nuclear bomb you could ever drop on a person’s life and yet you do it willingly.

And if you succeed, you will have to live with your choice and so will a bunch of innocent people who will get emotionally obliterated in the fall-out. It will be the emotional nuclear winter of your life and theirs.

But, that is okay because that married man is being held hostage in a tower in Beverly Hills by a wicked witch aka his wife. Having his baby will prove to him that you are the Princess and he will gallop towards you on his white horse and breathlessly ask you to forgive him for not seeing that his wife was the wicked witch all along. Gosh, that wicked witch of a wife cast a spell on him and you having his baby will break the spell!

Sorry, it is not how life works.

Your life will NOT be happy. In fact, your life will be hell.

First, he will probably not leave his wife. If you have a child, his wife will double-down, turn into a grizzly bear, and try to protect her cubs. The wife’s mother bear instincts will kick in and both you and your cub will be her target. Why is that?

Because you are trying to steal what was never yours to take. The wife was never a wicked witch. She was always the princess and you got played. Sure, you might get the state to garnish his wages, but you will be ostracized. His wife will not allow him to see your bastard child born from your affair with him.

There will be no Christmases and birthdays or anything else where daddy attends. You will have a very, unhappy life.

No matter what the affair statistics and what some evolutionary psychologists say, our minds, the structure of a functional society, as well as a peaceful future depend upon monogamy.

Cheating is not proof that people are genetically wired to be cheaters. Cheating is one of many destructive behaviors in which humans engage. Here are some other destructive behaviors in which humans engage but these behaviors are NOT hard-wired:
• Gambling
• Taking addictive substances
• Alcoholism
• Being abusive
• Embezzling money
• Promiscuity/sex-addiction
• Beating their children or pets
• Stealing from family members
• Sexually abusing children or animals
• Emotionally abusing others
• Refusing to be empathetic
• Being jerks
• Abusing the elderly
• Robbing banks
• Becoming televangelists
• Having their dog have potty breaks on the neighbor’s lawn

All of those things (except for the dog doo-doo on the lawn) are considered psychological disorders of one kind or another by the vast majority of psychologists. They fall within a five-axis system that help psychologists identify and treat each client in a successful way. No two clients are alike.

A small part of the population has a genetic disposition that might cause them to have a higher risk of behaving in unhelpful and destructive ways. But, a genetic disposition does not make the man.

Genetic dispositions do not have the ability to control us.

Also, only small parts of the population have such dispositions. These people are not “the norm” as in “normal.” The world normal simply points out that most people universally behave in certain ways—the norm.

But, here is the most important message. Push everything else aside and consider this: if you willingly had an affair with a married man and are carrying his child to manipulate him, you qualify as evil.

Here is why: you are bringing an innocent life into the world who is going to be used as an object. You are having your child so that you can use this innocent soul in your cheating chess game. You intentionally get pregnant thinking you can manipulate the married man by sending baby pictures and saying the baby misses his dad. This is one of the highest forms of evil—bringing an innocent being into the world for your selfish gain.

 

Sandrine’s Sad, Sad Life

I know a woman my age that is the product of such a relationship. Her mother targeted a wealthy, married man and hoped she could break up his marriage and make him leave his four children and wife. He was happy to have sex with this woman’s mom occasionally, because he was using her.

This was not enough for the woman’s mom. She believed that if she got pregnant, he would leave his wife and four kids for her (the mistress.) So, she got pregnant and gave birth to the woman I know. (Let us refer to her as Sandrine.)

When Sandrine was born, she and her mother lived in poverty. The married man paid bills sporadically because he had to hide this child from his wife and family. Sandrine’s mom was basically lazy and selfish and did not want to work. Sandrine’s mom had many affairs with married men, hoping one would leave his wife. None did.

Sandrine lived her life watching a parade of men come in and out of her mom’s life. As Sandrine got older, many of those men her mom brought home attempted to sexually molest Sandrine. She had to fight them off since her mom did not believe her.

Sandrine never met her dad. Sometimes her mom would stalk the house that Sandrine’s bio-dad owned with his wife and family. Sandrine got glimpses of her bio-dad here and there.

When Sandrine’s mom tried to confront the wife, the husband told his wife that Sandrine’s mom was crazy and was trying to blackmail them for money because they were a wealthy family. The wife believed him.

Sandrine had a narcissistic mom, Sandrine had to fend for herself, Sandrine focused on school and the day she could attend the university.

As an adult in her late-40’s, Sandrine goes from man to man. The last time I heard from her, she was somewhere in the Caribbean with a boyfriend from France. His problem was that he was too kind to her—so kind that she did not want to marry him.

He had a solid job and money—he wanted to marry her, have a family with her, and to care for her. I met him and he was a very solid person. He had his act together and I could not imagine him abandoning Sandrine even though she pushed him away.

What happened to dear, old mom?

Sandrine’s mom?

Well, she died of cancer all alone and on welfare. Sandrine’s bio-dad never even acknowledged it. Sandrine’s mom had been dead to him for years anyways. Her mom was one of many sperm repositories.

Sandrine’s mother chose to get pregnant to use Sandrine as a pawn to force that married man to leave his family. As you can see, life did not work out well for Sandrine or her mom. Sandrine is innocent in all this and her mom was a selfish narcissist who saw Sandrine’s only value as a pawn to break up a marriage. Using a child in this way is one of the biggest acts a woman can commit.

Mistress, let’s say you got pregnant and claimed it is not intentional.

I do not believe you.

But, let’s say for laughs you know how to seduce married men, but you don’t know how to use birth control. That does not speak well for you in terms of being a reliable parent. If you can’t put a condom on your male lover, you probably cannot open soup cans or milk cartons either.

If that is the case, I beg you to give up your parental rights, give your child to a two-parent loving home where the couple is unfortunately infertile. Those people want a child more than anything in the WORLD. They will love it and NOT use it as a human pawn for the purposes if blackmail.

Yes, it takes two to tango, but it is evil to get pregnant intentionally to try to trap a married man. Your child will live a life of hell and you should have such a child taken away and given to a stable family.

Here is an addended story from an Australian newspaper about how her pregnancy worked out with her married lover:

“I MET Dean* at a friend’s party. There was an instant attraction between us. I checked his wedding finger, no ring. When he asked me out I said yes. I fell in love very hard and very fast. Then I found out he was married with two children. He told me over dinner. I cried. I stormed off. When he arrived at my unit the following day, I opened the door. I couldn’t turn off my feelings for him. It was too late.

We started seeing each other a couple of times a week. He’d take me out for dinner; we’d spend the night in a hotel. He’d leave in the early hours. He’d tell his wife he was working late. Yes, I felt guilty about it — if I let myself think about it. I blocked it out. I didn’t see him at Christmas, New Year or Valentine’s Day. None of that mattered to me. I knew he had a wife. I let him get on with what he needed to do. He made time for me when he could and I always loved spending time with him. He took me to Paris for our first year anniversary. It was a short trip. I didn’t care. The thought, the love, the commitment, it was there. I was madly in love. We dated for six years. I knew he’d never leave his wife. As time went on, I adjusted to my new normal. I was happy. He was happy.

Then it took a turn. My period was late. We’d been careful and always used condoms but nothing is 100 per cent reliable, I know that. I knew he loved his wife, he had no intention of leaving her and I’d never thought that was what I wanted.  But, that changed when I found out I was pregnant. I wanted the baby. I knew I couldn’t keep it.

I went to the clinic with a girlfriend who sat in the waiting room while I went in. Tears ran down my face as we walked back outside to her car. She stayed that night with me to check I was OK. I said I was. I wasn’t, of course I wasn’t. The grief was overwhelming. It was a wake up call. I never knew what I wanted until this point. I know that sounds selfish. I never knew I wanted a baby until I couldn’t have it. I could never have what I truly wanted with him.

I’ve learned that the only chance you have is to be very careful about who you fall in love with in the first place. Never trick yourself into believing that a fraction is all you want.
I should have walked away when I found out he was married. I didn’t. I can’t regret any of it. In the end I lost everything. I lost the man I loved madly, and the baby that couldn’t be. I have to live with all of that too.” (1)

 

I am not without compassion. I feel sad anytime someone has an abortion. Before I had children, I had no idea how children would change my view of abortion. I went from being a vehement pro-choice to being a vehement pro-lifer. I am a pro-lifer in my own views, but I would not get in the way of what another woman wants to do. I do not want this to turn into an abortion discussion. I do not judge anyone who had an abortion—ever.

All I am saying is that abortion is sad and I feel bad that this woman was so selfish to get herself into a situation where one was required. Once again, the would-have-been child was innocent in all of this. His or her fate was determined by the selfishness of others. I find that heartbreaking.

In cases where a mistress gets pregnant, I believe the most moral thing a mistress can do is approach an adoption agency and break it off with her married lover. One time I spent a very short time talking to women who were on the fence about whether or not to have an abortion.

We had books full of profiles of infertile couples, pictures of the couples, information about religious beliefs, wealth, and everything else of couples. I would show women these books of people whose biggest dream in life would be to have a child to love.

I never tried to sway a woman one way or another. I told her the factual, medical details about abortion. I told her what could happen psychologically in terms of trauma and loss.

I was not there to judge—just to educate.

When I was alone, I would flip through these books full of profiles of infertile couples, see their photos, reads their life philosophies and why being able to adopt a child meant the world to them. I would burst into tears each time. I know couples that have failed fertility treatments and if they cannot adopt for whatever reason, they live with broken hearts.

I never told the women I counseled what I thought. I had volunteered for an organization that liked to show both sides and the facts. (As much as that is possible.)

I do not judge anyone who had an abortion. Everyone finds themselves in situations where it is the right decision. I have had miscarriages – after my fertility was endangered because of having to be treated for cervical cancer—and they are overwhelmingly heartbreaking. So, I do not judge. I know if a miscarriage tore my heart in two an abortion tore another woman’s heart in two. Therefore, I just cannot judge. Childbirth, miscarriage, abortion, and stillbirths are things that unite all women and they can be happy or sad. (Mostly sad.)

My point? If you are a married man and having sex with the other woman, you must always wear a condom. If you are a mistress, please, for God’s sake, get an IUD. It is NO FAIR for an innocent human being to be a life-long pawn who does not know where he or she fits; who feels the hatred of others just for existing; and who always know he exists for the purpose of being a pawn.

Having an affair is evil enough, but don’t bring children into it.


A Message to the Wives of Cheaters with Children by the Other Woman

Wives, whatever your husband has done, it cannot take away from the genuine love you once had. The other woman has no ability to erase the history you have had with your husband and she cannot erase the good times either.

Wives, I am so very sorry that your husband cheated on you. You did not deserve to have your husband cheat on you. Shame on him for breaking the vows that he said in front of God himself. Double shame on him for getting another woman pregnant AND possibly bringing STD’s home to you.

If your husband is vacillating between you and the other woman and being non-committal, it is time to get that vacillating husband a vasectomy. He is using bodily appendages as weapons of mass destruction of lives. These weapons will blow up your marriage and family.

I do not believe that most married men really want to get their mistresses pregnant. It will create a whole lot of hell for everyone. Most cheating men just want free, recreational sex on the side.

I have seriously heard some men refer to extra-martial sex as “recreational.” They claim extra-marital sex is really no more different than a sport such as tennis. I guess these men are right.

Extramarital sex is a recreational sport like tennis. Here’s why: In both cases, someone’s balls will get hit (by an angry wife) and one person is likely to get served (with divorce papers).

But, it doesn’t matter if extra-marital sex and tennis have that in common, extra-marital sex is wrong.

And if it is indeed no different from tennis, then just play tennis and do not cheat on your spouse!

What is a wife to do if she knows the other woman is trying to get pregnant in an attempt to spouse poach? Well, if the wife without children, I would really consider a divorce.

If you as a woman do not have children and your husband is actively trying to get another woman pregnant, it is time to cut your losses. If you stay, there will be a lot more losses than gains. It might be time to leave the game and let someone else be his tennis partner. He will cheat on whatever tennis partner he plays with.

Do not be that tennis partner. You can give that job – and the hell that comes with it – to the other woman. Once your husband marries her, she will be boring and he will acquire a new tennis partner. Time to get out.

If you do not want to get out—read the next section.

 


How to Keep Your Family Together

You can stay together, but it will require work and sacrifice.

There are the wives who have been married to men for MANY years who find out that their husband is going to have a child by another woman. You have too much invested in your marriage and likely you want to keep your marriage.

Final reminder: if you do not want to keep the marriage or are not sure, call the best divorce attorney in your area. They can help you figure it out; case closed.

If you do want to keep your marriage, this section is about what to do when your husband has completely lost his mind and thinks “finding himself’ means impregnating another woman.

He wants to find himself in yet another person’s face—his new child’s – because it was not enough to ‘find himself’ in the faces of his real family. Shame on him; that is narcissism to the 10th degree.

Wives, I do not care if the other woman has made the stupid decision to carry your husband’s child.

You too have rights.

But, let me back up. There are two solutions to this: the Christian solution and the secular solution. I need to present both parts.

The Christian Solution

Here is an addended story about a Christian family and how they solved it:

““It’s time for you to tell the truth,” Lori said. Terry [her husband] confessed everything. The affair began when things weren’t going well at home … when he was longing for attention. What first began as a friendship at work gradually changed into something much more. “I guess she made me feel like I was somebody,” he said.

Terry told Lori about the day Vicki [the other woman] told him she was pregnant and talked to him about the possibilities. Should she get an abortion? If she had the baby, would he support the child?

Of course he would support his child, he told her.

But, if Lori found out about the baby, he thought his marriage would surely end. He loved Lori and their two boys, and he didn’t want to be like his father and desert his family. So before Lori even knew about the affair, he did all that he could to make life miserable for her—so she would leave him.

As Terry admitted all this to Lori, his words seemed all jumbled in her mind. “I could have handled the affair,” she says, “but something about her being pregnant with the child shifted some things.”

She felt betrayed, rejected, and lost. But she didn’t feel hopeless. A new follower of Jesus Christ, she sensed God asking her to do what felt impossible: forgive Terry and stay with him.

The next time Lori saw Vicki was when Kirk was born in August of 1994. As she gazed through the nursery window of the hospital, she couldn’t help but stare at the beautiful baby boy. She kept looking at him, asking herself, Does he look like my kids? Like Terry? Can this really be?

And then she went to see the mother of her husband’s child.

Vicki’s and Lori’s eyes met. It was a silent, awkward moment. The air was thick between the two women.

Lori said something like “You have a beautiful baby,” and Vicki thanked her for the visit.

Once again Lori found herself asking God how she was supposed to love another woman’s child. And once again, she had no step-by-step answer. All she knew was that God was somehow leading her through a difficult process to healing and restoration.

Lori says that Kirk was not born of her flesh; he was born in her heart. When she looked at Kirk she did not see her husband’s sin. Instead, she thanked Christ for forgiving her sins.

Kirk was about 6 weeks old when he made his first visit to the Rigdons’ home. It was an exciting time for the family as the boys met their new brother. “We made a big deal out of it,” Lori says. “I took pictures and acted like it was a normal process of bringing a baby home.”

Kirk’s next long visit was around Christmas, and then he came every other weekend. Lori often picked Kirk up from Vicki’s house, and the two women began to form a better relationship. By the time Kirk was about 8 months old, his visits seemed to be a part of normal, everyday life.

“Our contact with Vicki was on such a regular basis,” Lori says. “There was no awkwardness anymore. All of that seemed to fade into the background.”

Vicki became a Christian when she was pregnant with Kirk, and several years later she married a godly man. Together, Vicki and Shane and Terry and Lori have raised Kirk. They’ve shared family birthday celebrations and ballgames.

Twenty years have come and gone, and Lori has stayed true to her promise. She told Terry that she would love Kirk as her own. “And she’s done that,” he says.

Both Vicki and Lori have raised their children to love God and to know that nothing is impossible for Him—not even healing dead marriages and broken hearts. Not even bringing two moms together to love one son.

Lori has told Kirk, “You’re the good thing that God brought out of a bad situation. … God has a great purpose for your life and for your future.”

No one is more amazed by how God has answered her prayers than Lori. How He somehow put the two families together. “He’s the one who can rebuild and restore,” Lori says. “He is a God of mercy and forgiveness.” (2)

 

If we have non-Christian readers who read that, they probably think that Lori was “out of her mind.” This is what I have to say. Literally, Lori was out of her mind—instead of focusing on what she wanted, she asked God what he wanted. Lori put her thoughts of herself aside and prayed.

I have followed the One God my entire life. I have attended Christian church and Jewish temples. I have studied Buddhism and some Hinduism. I have read the Tao Te Ching. But, I adhere to Judeo-Christian values.

I try to put myself aside each day to see what God has for my life and I spend time praying every day and listening to God.

If God would have asked me to go through what Lori went through, I would have blocked God on Facebook, Twitter, and on my cell phone. I would have sent an angry email to God’s Gmail account and said, “You are a bad influence and have outrageous ideas—so stop calling and emailing. You are officially blocked!”

Actually, that was meant to be humorous.

I do not know what I would do in such a situation. But, I do know one thing. When I see an innocent, newborn baby for the first time, I do not care how it came to be. I do not care if its mother used crack during her entire pregnancy. I do not care if the baby was a result of people I do not like. I do not care if the baby’s mom was a prostitute. I do not care if the baby is black, white, orange, green, yellow, or red.

As hard as it could be, if my husband had a son by another woman, I do not think I could hate that baby. I might hate the other woman and despise the ground she walks on, but I could not hate the innocent child who was used as a pawn by his selfish mother and my stupid husband.

Please God, do NOT send this trial into my life. God, this is not an invitation to test me. You know all of the trials and tests I have endured in life even before the trial with my ex. Since many are not about infidelity, I rarely mention them. Thank you, God. And I promise I won’t block you from Gmail if you never send this trial into my life.

Okay, let’s be completely serious. I think with a lot of prayer, a lot of communication, and clear boundaries, Christians can get through this. But, the husband MUST put his wife first. He may have someone else’s child, but the other woman and her child live elsewhere. The wife should be able to set the boundaries in this situation. Period.

 

For the Secular People Out There

If you are secular and don’t believe in God or do not want to bring religion into it, it is perfectly fine. Everyone has whatever belief system works for them and I accept them no matter what they believe.

So, here is your leverage:

  1. Get an excellent attorney. Everyone usually offers a free consult. Ask the following questions…
    o What rights do I have as a wife based on how long I have been married and based on the ages of my children?
    o What are the legal rights (not emotional rights) that the other woman has in this scenario?
    o Is my spouse legally obligated to spend time with his new child?
    o Is my husband legally obligated to support the child and how much will he owe per month?
    o Can I legally ask for an independently done DNA test after the child is born? (Hint: many mistresses have several men going at a time. Most other women are Petri dishes on legs. Got a disease? No problem! They have one!)
    o If paternity is established—what is the bare minimum that your family must legally do to support this other woman and her child?
    o Can you file a restraining order?
    o Can you create a post-nuptial agreement that determines assets divided upon divorce?
    o Can you create legally enforceable boundaries that you, the wife, determine?
    o Is there anything else you need to think of in terms of legal obligations, the possibility of being sued—etc?
    o Is there anything else?
  2. Get an excellent individual therapist
  3. Get a separate marriage therapist
  4. Set up an emotional support network
  5. Figure out what personal boundaries you are willing to set with your husband

That is really all there is to do.

I found a question online that has to do with this. Depending on where you live, the laws change.

Here is the question:

“My husband left me in September of 2013 for a woman at work. He got her pregnant in Feb of 2014. And filed for divorce from me on March of 2014. We have not been to court yet. And don’t have a court date. The baby is due November of 2014. What legal ramifications does this have on me, being the wife. If we are still married when the baby is born , can he sign the birth cert. If they , meaning my husband and his mistress are not married , and we are, will he have to legitimate this child. And how will this effect my court case, it child support awarded?” (3)

Here is the answer of a Georgia lawyer:

“Unless his mistress is married to someone else, the child will not be legitimate when born. He will need to file a Petition to Legitimate this child or marry his mistress after you divorce. The only ramifications it will have on you are that the child born of his mistress will probably be a “qualified child” when calculating support awarded to you (although it wasn’t exactly clear in your fact pattern whether or not you had children). Certainly it should have an affect on your divorce because adultery is grounds for divorce and when establishing divisions of property and alimony, the court looks to conduct of the parties as a factor. It sounds like his conduct wasn’t very good. There are, however, many other factors to be considered. Also, he can still sign the birth certificate when the baby is born if you are still married.”

 

Unfortunately, all states have different laws and to complicate matters, all situations are different.

Please, TALK TO AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE.

Here is another woman’s story about the day her personal world stopped turning– the day the mistress showed up to introduce her love child to the wife and the wife’s children. I have addended it, for brevity.

“Once upon a time, my husband’s mistress unexpectedly showed up at our doorstep with a toddler in the car. As you might guess, a slightly emotional scene occurred.

The next day, as my daughters and I were heading out for ice cream, my 6 year-old asked:  Mommy, is Connie’s son Daddy’s too?

My heart stopped. I’d been dreading the day that question was asked. Inwardly I was still raw from the news myself and furious that I, not my husband, had to deal with the big question.

I’d been scouring books, unsuccessfully, to learn the best way to handle the inevitable. The closest I came to an answer was that mental health experts deemed family secrets a huge, unhealthy burden for families, and that kids instinctively know the truth.

So, with all the non-judgmental feelings I could muster, I answered “Yes.” My heart was pounding, dreading the questions to follow and wondering if I’d just ruined her life.

After a moment my daughter simply grumbled, “That’s not fair, I don’t want to share any of my things with him.” My 3 year-old, excitedly kicking her car seat, chimed in “Me too!” I couldn’t have agreed more.

But, how do you move on when your husband and his mistress (a woman who’s been to your kid’s soccer games and a guest in your home) present you with the reality of a love child?

There’s a whole new world to consider. The mistress told me she could not wait to see my daughters excitement when they met their new baby brother.

I cried for a year straight about how the baby had destroyed the idyllic family I’d worked so hard to create.

As often happens, the mistress went to great lengths to make it clear to me that she was my husband’s true love. She sent me pictures, via certified mail, of the two of them and yes, the three of them. She called me frequently acting as my “best friend” kindly explaining that I was the reason my husband was so unhappy.

When I’d disagree, she’d scowl, “How can you keep being such bad role model for your daughters by staying with a man who doesn’t love you?”

Of course, afterwards, I’d run all of her words by my husband. He’d shake his head and say, “She’s crazy, she just wants my money.”

I offered to raise the child as our own, because it wasn’t the baby’s fault and, according to my husband, the mistress didn’t care about the baby. Neither of them took me up on it.

In the end the mistress got my husband, his money and legitimacy, while I got a divorce decree that my surgeon ex didn’t uphold.” (3)

 

Well, well, I have never heard about such a heart-warming story as this. Have you? The wife took the high road and emotionally prepared herself to raise someone else’s child since it was not the child’s fault. The wife was right—the child was innocent.

The issue is, the people who actually do these things—the surgeon who gets his mistress pregnant and the mistress who thinks it is exciting when the wife’s children meet the new family member —well, these people come from an alternative universe.

In their upside down and perverted universe, the things that make sense to decent people make no sense to them.

In their universe, the wife should rejoice when the mutual friend her husband was having sex with was in the wife’s bed. The wife should be happy when another woman presents the ‘fruit of his loins’ to the wife. Why, the wife should shout, “Hooray!” in this sick universe.

And of course the wife should nod and agree when the mistress tells the wife the wife is a horrible example to her daughters because she will not let her daughter’s father leave already!

The wife is such a bad example by trying to keep a sense of normalcy in her children’s lives by using every fiber of her being to keep her family together.

Oh no, the mistress thinks the wife is setting a terrible example by trying to keep her home in tact.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Obviously, this wife in the story was a lot more civil than I would be. First off, the mistress would have never made it to my doorstep. There would have been a restraining order.

If the mistress introduced her child to my daughters, I would say out loud and in front of the mistress and my children:

“This is a very instructive situation, girls. Take a good look at the woman before you. The common word for her is “whore,” but of course, others might call her a “bitch,” which would also be true. But, most of all, the woman who stands before you is an evil entity called “a home wrecker.” Gaze into this evil-eyed creature because she is the stuff of nightmares. She is here to steal your father, take our house, and take half of our money. She is like a cockroach that your father decided to bring into our family and the cockroach infested the house. I am so sorry I did not marry a real man and that you don’t have a REAL father.”

Oh is that harsh?

No, it is calling a spade a spade. Women who get pregnant and audaciously tell the wife that the wife and her kids are keeping the mistress and the mistresses child from true love with a married man need to be kicked off the planet.

Elon Musk, if you could send these audacious and entitled home-wreckers on a one-way trip to Pluto that would be great. Mars would work too. Oh—and one last tip for the engineers building the rocket—please make sure that you design the rocket to explode in mid-air while we all watch. Thanks, SpaceX, I hope we can count on you when we need you.

You know what? Elon Musk may even take me up on this idea. Do you know why? Elon Musk’s old, dried-up father just had a baby with his own (step) daughter.

I am getting flash backs all over again to the time when Woody Allen married one of his adopted daughters. Woody also molested another adopted daughter, Dylan, when she was seven.

Just when you think society has sunk as low as it can go—there is always some father out there ready to enthusiastically molest and impregnate his daughter. (Please do not comment on how since they are not blood relations, it does not count. You are WRONG. Molesting, impregnating, or marry a daughter is about as messed up as it gets.)

I never would have been capable of saying such things before my ex did what he did. I was always Miss Nice Girl—the one you could trust—the one you could walk all over—the one who could trust you even if she saw what appeared to be lipstick on your shirt (and you were a boyfriend.)

Wives—get an attorney. Knows your rights. That’s all you can do.

Bonus Thoughts: Is your husband’s mistress prettier than you are, or more special?

Oh yay! We get a bonus section on wife versus mistress. Who will win the title of the better woman? (Hint: the wife). But, go ahead and read it for yourself.

M. Gary Neuman interviewed hundreds of cheating men. He asked them if the mistress was prettier than the wife or had something that was better than what the wife had. Around 87% of men said, the other woman was inferior to their wives.

Here is a photo montage (along with my commentary) of famous men, their wives, and their affair partners. You be the judge. Res ipsa loquitur…

1. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s women

                                                                                                              The Other Woman                                                       The Wife

Mildred (the housemaid and the mistress) versus Maria Shriver (part of the Kennedy family, extremely successful, well-bred, beautiful, and intelligent.) Arnold sired a son with Mildred the maid, well after he married Maria Shriver. In my opinion, Maria Shriver got the short end of this stick. I can guarantee Arnold would currently be a has-been and forgotten C-list actor, if he had not married into the Kennedy family. This is the ultimate betrayal because Maria is responsible for Arnold’s political career and he thanked her by siring a child with the woman who cleaned toilets. Bravo, Arnold. You were so lazy that you could not even make a phone call to the nearest super-model to have a romp in the hay. No wonder California “is in the state it is in.” (Pun intended).

 

2. Robin William’s Women

The First Wife

Valerie Velardi, Robin William’s first wife, to whom he was married for 10 years. Coincidentally, his years with Valerie were also the most successful years of his career. Valerie bore Robin a son, whom they named Zachary. Unfortunately, their relationship ended contentiously. Robin just could not understand why Valerie was so upset and angry during their divorce. After all, the only thing that he did was impregnate the nanny that Valerie had hired. (Robin, you were a terrific comedian, but a lousy father and husband.)

The Other Woman

The nanny, Marsha, pictured with her own child, which was conceived during the affair with a married Robin Williams. I can just picture the whole scene now. Valarie, who was Robin’s first wife, hired Marsha to be the nanny for Valerie’s own son, Zac. But, in Marsha’s eyes, the fact that Valerie was married and she was being paid to care for Valerie’s child was of no
consequence to her. I can picture Robin and Marsha, alone together with Robin’s son, Zac. I can picture Robin’s son, Zac, crying because he was hungry and being left alone in a “baby jail” aka pack-n-play while Marsha convinced the married Robin that she could conceive a child with him instead.

It is like this: you cannot be two places at once. If Marsha was busy trying to conceive her own baby with Robin, I can guarantee poor, little Zac was getting neglected. I do not like to say mean things about people’s appearance. But, if a woman is trying to break up your marriage and she also happens to look like a witch, I can guarantee this is not a nice person. Very occasionally, a person’s face matches their interior. This is such a case.

 

3. John Edward’s Women:

The Wife: Mary Elizabeth Anania (Edwards)


Elizabeth Edwards could have been a beauty queen, but she was destined to be much greater. Beauty and brains. From Wikipedia: Edwards began her career as a law clerk for a federal judge, then moved to Nashville, Tennessee, in 1978 to become an associate at the law firm of Harwell Barr Martin & Sloan. In 1981, she and her husband moved their family to Raleigh, where she worked in the Office of the Attorney General, and at the law firm Merriman, Nicholls, and Crampton. She kept the last name Anania until 1996, when she retired from legal practice upon the death of her son and changed her name to Elizabeth Anania Edwards in Wade’s memory.

Much of her time after leaving legal practice was devoted to the administration of the Wade Edwards Foundation. She taught legal writing as an adjunct instructor at the University of North Carolina School of Law and worked as a substitute teacher in the Wake County Public Schools. In August 2009, she opened a furniture store in Chapel Hill. In September 2006, Random House published her first book, Saving Graces: Finding Solace and Strength from Friends and Strangers, focusing on the ways in which various communities have helped her through the trials of her life, from her itinerant military childhood to the death of her son and her early bout with breast cancer. In May 2009, they published her second book, Resilience: Reflections on the Burdens and Gifts of Facing Life’s Adversities, further discussing the return of her illness, the deaths of her father and son, the effect of these events on her marriage, her husband’s infidelity, and the general state of health care in America. Both books are best-sellers.

 

John Edwards and The Mistress

From Wikipedia: Rielle Hunter (born Lisa Jo Druck on March 20, 1964, also known as Lisa Hunter, Lisa Jo Hunter, and Rielle Jaya James Druck) is an American former film producer. She is known for having had an affair and conceiving a child with former US Senator John Edwards, while he was a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008. She is said to be the basis of a character in a Jay McInerney novel.

The National Enquirer, a U.S. tabloid, cited claims by an anonymous source that Edwards had engaged in an extramarital affair with Hunter during Edwards’s 2008 presidential campaign and that Hunter was pregnant. After a report by the National Enquirer on December 19, 2007, Hunter announced she was pregnant with the child of Andrew Young, a married man who is a former staffer for John Edwards’ presidential campaign. Young, his wife Cheri, and their young children were living outside of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, at the time in the same “Governor’s Club” complex where Hunter was renting. Soon afterward, the Youngs and Hunter moved to California. Hunter became pregnant with Edwards’ child in May 2007; she later said she found out she was pregnant only in July. She gave birth to her daughter on February 27, 2008, in Santa Barbara, California, but did not list the child’s father’s name on the birth certificate. She gave her own name as “Rielle Jaya James Druck” on her daughter’s birth certificate, but gave the child the surname “Hunter”.

Yeah, she was a real winner.

 

4. Dr. Martin MacNeill’s Women aka the story I hate the MOST.

Michele Marie Somers (married name MacNeill),


Michelle McNeil was a wonderful and beloved mother and wife. I followed this case from start to finish. I just could not fathom why her husband, Martin MacNeill, would plan her murder in cold blood along with his mistress. After Martin killed his wife, he moved his mistress, Gypsy, into his home and said Gypsy was the new nanny and mother of the house. Then, Martin and Gypsy stole the identity of one of his oldest, adopted daughters and sent her back to Russia.

To top it off, one of Martin’s oldest daughter’s awoke to find her father performing sexual acts on her rear end. As his shocked daughter awoke, Martin said he mistook his daughter for his dead wife, Michelle. Come on now, of course there is always family resemblance, but mistaking your adult daughter for your dead wife (who you killed) takes it to a whole new level.

Crazy does not even describe Martin MacNeill. Evil is not even an appropriate term for Martin MacNeill. He is something worse. I know he is not in heaven, but I tend to believe even the devil has standards. 

 

Martin MacNeill and the Mistress (Gypsy). Were these two toasting because they had just figured out how the murder would go down?

Michelle (and Martin) MacNeill’s Daughters

Michelle’s daughters were obviously beyond distraught over what happened to their wonderful and innocent mother, who was well-loved by many. (Except her husband and the other woman. Funny how that works.)

 

5. Hugh Grant’s Women

Hugh Grant has always had a “colorful love life.” (Pun intended.) Way back when, he was in a long-term relationship with the gorgeous and Oxford educated, Liz Hurley. Yes, she is gorgeous and has an even more gorgeous IQ. He almost ended his career the night he was caught with a prostitute in Los Angeles. Hugh Grant provided the foundation for many jokes in the coming years.

Liz and Hugh

 

Hugh and the Prostitute (Did the cat eat your smile, Hugh?)


You know, I thought Hugh could not top that one. Truly. But, the old boy still had something up his sleeve: two different and dueling baby-mommas, who are playing “the pick me” dance, and seeing who can “out baby” the other to win Hugh’s affections. I did not even know “out babying” existed until I saw these two women and thought of the concept.

 

Meet Contender #1 aka the first Baby Momma, Tinglan Hong


Tinglan gave birth to Hugh’s baby number one and baby number three. Tinglan’s claim to fame before that was working as a waitress in a hole-in-the wall Chinese restaurant in London. Considering she was an absolute nobody, it was her lucky day when she met Hugh Grant. She did not give up on pursuing Hugh, got pregnant, and had his first child. Tinglin became an instant millionaire (child support payments) and got an expensive house in London where she now lives with her mooching mom. Tinling’s mother taught her well—that the easiest route to wealth is to open your legs and become impregnated by the wealthiest man possible.

 

Meet Contender #2 aka the second baby-mama, Anna Eberstein, new wife of Hugh Grant, and official winner of the “pick me dance.”

Anna is the daughter of attorneys, who currently hold positions in the Swedish government. She is well educated, well-bred, and a successful television producer in her own right. She could have dated and married anyone. But, instead, she had Hugh’s child #2 and child #4. Oh Anna, you are a beautiful, educated, and an accomplished woman and chose to compete with a nobody.

Anna you persisted and won the “pick me dance.” Couldn’t you take a look at pathetic Tinglan and realize open legs is all she has and will ever have? How could you even compete with a nobody? You already won in the game of life because you are someone and you could have found someone a million times better than Hugh Grant.

Winning the pick me dance is not really winning anything. When you win a cheater (as a result of the pick me dance), you lose monogamy, you lose trust, you lose the reassurance that he might stay. You married a cheater who bounced back and forth between a somebody (you) and a nobody (her). One day he might get bored and ask the other women to join the pick me dance again. Oh, and she will be happy to try to ‘out baby’ you again. What then? I say get an annulment while you can. Anna you can do better.

In Summary

Other women: Don’t sleep with married men. (Duh). If you do sleep with them (shame on you) but please use birth control. (Duh) If you think you are going to win the lottery by having the baby by a married man to get him to leave his family, I would reconsider that thought. Not all married women take being chumped “laying down.” Some married women will spend their husband’s entire life savings hiring the best attorneys.  Their children, who all have scissors and baseball bats, will also flank those same married women on each side. At the end of it all, you will inherit a man who is broke (in all ways) and you will have to work to support him and your child with him.

Best scenario? Don’t sleep with married men. It is called preventing problems.

Wives: If your husband is having an affair, it is time to hire a detective and get proof. If you choose to stay with such a man, send him in for a vasectomy. If your husband is impregnating or has impregnated another women and you just found out, transfer all assets into your name and hire the attorney with the reputation for being the most ruthless. Find out your legal rights and ensure you use your rights to their fullest. Best of all, move to one of the seven states where you can sue for alienation of affection.

Most of all, wives, don’t be the sucker of such a married man.

Just when you thought it could not get worse, I have saved one of the more outrageous stories for last.

I was sitting in a local coffee house the other day working on this post. There was a couple sitting next to me, who appeared to be in their late 20’s or early 30’s, and they were speaking very loudly since they had decided to pick a public venue to argue.

The husband yelled, “Do you expect me to be loyal since you had a hysterectomy?”

That got my attention—a young woman with a hysterectomy and a husband who correlates his loyalty or lack of loyalty to her missing uterus. Interesting. I listened for more.

The wife said, “You know I was battling cancer. What was I supposed to do?”

Cancer? Uterus removed? Hmm… sounds like cancerous HPV to me. I kept listening.

The husband haughtily replied, “Well, I am happy to stay married to you, but I think I will explore other opportunities if they come up.”

Other opportunities? Opportunities for employment? Opportunities for more vacation days? Opportunities for affairs? What opportunities?

The wife said, “What if you get another woman pregnant? Then what?”

Ahhh… opportunities with other women.

The husband said, “If you let me see other women, then I will schedule a vasectomy with my doctor. I promise. I love you and want to stay with you and I am happy to get a vasectomy if you let me see others.”

Whoa now, that is a BIG jump. So, now he is saying he will stay married to her if she lets him have sex with other women. Additionally, he will do her the honor of getting a vasectomy so that he can have all the extra-martial sex he wants without impregnating everyone. I wanted to insert myself between them and tell the wife to get up, grab her purse, run away now, and don’t stop running until she has out-run the sorry excuse of a human being she was married to. But, I did not. I took notes.

The wife fell silent. It appeared she was thinking about his offer to stay married, to allow her husband to have sex with countless others, not impregnate them, and always come home to her.

The wife finally said, “Okay, let’s go talk to the doctor together.” They commenced holding hands and looked lovingly at each other.

Was this a joke? If it was, the punch-line would have been: “Those millennials—they are so open minded their brains leaked out!”

Only, this was not a joke or a comedy club.

This is only one of the many outrageous conversations I have overheard, when I write at one of the local coffee houses. 

Married women: Do NOT be that woman who has been made to believe she is a second class citizen because she had a hysterectomy. Please—have enough dignity. Vasectomy or not, your husband can still bring home STDs.

I could not help but wonder if that woman had to undergo a hysterectomy because of cancerous HPV. (And I can guess he had always been a cheater too). If he has a vasectomy, he can still bring home cancerous HPV all over again. When it returns, she might lose more than her uterus—she might lose her life.

Having a uterus does not correlate to fidelity. A hysterectomy takes nothing from a woman except for a body part, which is not so useful after menopause. But, it does not take anything away from a woman’s innate wholeness and it certainly does not take away from her femininity or womanhood.

The husband sitting in the coffee shop was probably always unfaithful, but now he had a bargaining chip – aka the lowest tricks in the book. He implied that because his wife did not have something irrelevant to her humanity, she was a second-class citizen. False. I hope one day she wises up.

Cheating Husbands: Put your selfishness aside long enough to not be a jerk. If you are a jerk, please be courteous and tell your wife you are a jerk. Then, be a gentleman, hand over all your assets, and quietly leave. (Wayward spouses who are working on your marriage and who have not impregnated others, this does NOT apply to you.)

Men who have been cheated on: This also does not apply to you. If your wife gets pregnant and you suspect it is someone else’s child, you too must play hardball. You are not (emotionally) required to raise the love-child of your wife. Call an attorney and see if you can get the sperm donor to pay for the love child. Meanwhile, you can leave with your biological children and attempt to sue your wife for spousal support, if she works.

It’s an equal rights world—both cheating women and men need to pay for what they have done to an innocent spouse. Women, you do not get special treatment because you are a wayward woman in a marriage where your husband has never had an emotional or physical affair. Life does not work that way for either gender. The ones who plays, pays—whether they are male or female.

Readers, are you in this situation? Do you know of someone who is? How did it turn out? Are you an adult child of a situation where your bio dad did not leave his family for your mom?

 

Sources:

What It Is Like to be the Pregnant Mistress of a Married Man. From: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/dating/what-its-like-being-the-pregnant-mistress-of-a-married-man/news-story/bc932706149f7eb070d9dc6c9cfadf7c

Mary May Larmoyeux, Are You Pregnant with my Husband’s Child? From https://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/troubled-marriage/infidelity/are-you-pregnant-with-my-husbands-child/

Sharon Zarozny. When Baby Makes Three … Extramaritally. From https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharon-zarozny/post_1741_b_824597.html

 

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85 Responses to The Ultimate Poach: When Your Husband Gets the Other Woman Pregnant

  1. TheFirstWife June 5, 2018 at 11:19 am #

    I guess keeping it classy isn’t the motto here.

    I would never lower myself to be so ill mannered that in front of my own children I would degrade another person by trash talking.

    Really not the Christian thing to do. And it does not model the right behavior to children.

    I don’t know how I would handle this situation. But I know myself well enough that I would not behave in an embarrassing way in front of my children.

    That “woman” is still someone’s mom even if the baby was born under less than ideal circumstances. And sometimes it is better to be “classy” than trashy.

    I know I would be furious with my H if money had to be paid to the OW and child. I don’t deny that. But I would never take it out on the child.

    The child is an innocent victim in the middle of two families. And it is up to the parents and extended families to make sure the child’s best interests are taken into consideration.

    IMO calling the OW names in front of your own children is not acceptable. Under any circumstances.

  2. Joey June 5, 2018 at 12:13 pm #

    Always thought-provoking, Sarah!

    It was interesting when you said that unfaithful husbands are still intimate with their wives. In my situation, my ex’s AP went back to his wife after number ddays and false reconciliations, and his wife and myself finally said enough is enough. A few months after that, his wife was pregnant, and my ex couldn’t believe it… He told her they were in a sexless marriage. Well when I talked to the wife, she was open with me that the affair blindsided her because they were still very sexually involved throughout the whole thing.

    On the other hand, my ex did everything to withhold sex because she felt she was cheating on her AP. Her words, not mine – heavy eye roll…

    Thankfully, a pregnancy did not occur even though they never used protection. He is happy living his life with his family (which I am happy for because his wife is an amazing woman and their kids deserver two parents). He is just living the life I thought I would be living now. With a wife and kids, and here I am trying to figure out if I will ever be emotionally healed to ever be in a relationship.

    Is it bitter of me to think why is his life going so well after all the shitty things he did to people?

    • Tired June 5, 2018 at 12:31 pm #

      I think it would be hard not to be bitter in your situation Joey. But in some way I think your wife is getting her just desserts in that he stayed with his wife and not her. What an awful pair. Perhaps you should of married HIS wife.

    • Sarah P. June 5, 2018 at 10:24 pm #

      Hi Joey,

      You are one of the good guys and you will find love again. I remember being your age, my relationship ending, and wondering if I would ever get married or have children. I wanted to be married and have children. Many women want to be married and have kids. You just need to find them.

      I do not know how much you put yourself out there on the social scene. Do you do on-line dating or speed-dating? Also, do you have a good relationship with your mom and if so, is your mom a good judge of character? If she is, be sure to introduce any new girlfriends to mom. That’s probably the quickest way to find a nice girl. And if you have a mom who is fair-minded and wants the best for you and if mom says, “Run far away from her,” believe your mom. Trust me on this. I cannot tell you how many bad marriages could have been avoided if sons listened to their Good Moms. (Not bad moms. Don’t listen to bad moms. They will just pick out someone like them. Or a bad mom will hate a good woman. So if you have abad mom and she hates your girlfriend, you probably have a good girlfriend.).

      Are you allowed to be bitter? OF COURSE!!!!!! Joey, you (and the other man’s wife) are the victims here. Victims are allowed to be bitter all they want. Victims are allowed to say, do, and think things that are normally considered ‘out of character.’ An affair is both an abnormal and highly painful situation.

      People are not going to have the restraint of the Queen of England and sit down, drink a cup of tea served in fine china, and eat a nice scone when they are going through affair recovery. Nope, they are going to be throwing the fine china against the wall, dumping the tea in Boston harbor, and putting a scone filled with laxative on the other person’s doorstep. That is “normal” affair recovery behavior. And so is bitterness. Bitterness is absolutely normal. When people say they are not bitter, I take a good look at their teeth to see evidence of grinding. If their is evidence of teeth grinding, they are bitter, but refuse to admit it to themselves because of some silly notion that victims are not allowed to be bitter.

      Joey, I am bitter on your behalf. You did not deserve this. You are one of the nice guys who actually wants to settle down and have a family. Unfortunately, you fell in love with someone who you never thought could do something as horrible as cheating on you.

      I do not understand how people who do such horrible things can (seemingly) have such good lives.

      On the other hand… people have read stories in the past of Devious Doctor and Nasty Nurse. Nasty Nurse was married, had three small children and targeted Devious Doctor who was married and had three older children. The two divorced their spouses and got married. It seemed that they were getting away with it for a while. Then there was some bad luck. Nasty Nurse got fired for NOT doing her job the entire time she worked in the organization (hint– she was too busy spouse poaching). Ex-wife of Devious Doctor, who is actually a saint, got a nice, financial settlement. In an attempt for Devious Doctor to make money back, he joined a get rich quick scheme. He put almost all that was left of his retirement in said scheme and he just announced he lost ALL OF IT. Hmmm…. Nasty Nurse was fired, Devious Doctor loses almost all of his retirement and must pay alimony to ex-wife, and Devious Doctor gets to raise three small children that are not his. Devious Doctor’s college-aged children have gone no contact. Even Devious Doctor’s church kicked him out. Additionally, Nasty Nurse is an atheist and has a problem with Devious Doctor looking for a new church. When these two got married, I believed they got away with it. But now almost a year later, things are not looking up. I am sure reality is setting in. Each one is probably looking at the other side-ways and the reality is hitting them that they each “won” a cheater. We also know that financial issues generally cause turmoil in marriage. They are now having those too. And he is asserting his right to go to church and is apparently going without her.

      Seems to me that things are starting to take a turn for the worse.

      Maybe it appears that your ex-fiancee’s other man and his family are doing well. And I am sure his wife is great– men cheat on great women all the time. But, surely the other man’s wife cannot be too happy with him behind closed doors. She has proof he is a cheater. The wife knows that even having a frequent love life with her husband did not matter. The guy is probably incapable of staying loyal. Somehow I doubt things are all sunshine and rainbows at chez cheater’s home. His wife probably keeps him on a short leash. His children have probably found out one way or another.

      And thank God for miracles that your ex did NOT get pregnant. I call that Divine Intervention.

      But, don’t lose hope, Joey. There are many great women. You need to determine what it is you want personality-wise in a woman and look for that. I understand physical attraction is always part of the deal. But look at a woman’s heart first. Don’t shut yourself out from possibilities. Just write a list of the personality qualities and VALUES you want in a person. Look for that. A woman can always lose weight, gain weight, grow long hair, color her hair, get new clothes etc. So, don’t put too much emphasis on looks since looks can be both improved and lost.

      What was the wife in this situation like? How did she react to the news? Did she confront him? How many kids did they have?

      Hope all is well,

      Sarah

  3. Tired June 5, 2018 at 12:27 pm #

    I feel sorry for any wife in this situation. How people manage to get through this I do not know. This is the ultimate betrayal and I don’t think I could find it in myself to accept a child born in these circumstances. I would have to leave.

    I agree with you TFW that the child should be left out of these arguments entirely. It is not their fault they were conceived by such ugly people. I really have to wonder that if a wife accepted the husband’s child if the child would not still feel it in some way? I don’t think it is possible to be so selfless that a wife could just accept this horrible insult and totally welcome this horrible reminder of the husband’s transgression.

    What an awful scenario.

    And that douche bag in the coffee shop really is something else. It is very hard to believe that anyone would put up with that either. I think the wife should leave. It sounds like she is young and would definitely have plenty of time to find someone decent.

  4. Rose June 5, 2018 at 4:23 pm #

    The only thing I have to add here (since I haven’t personally experienced this) is that my daughter is right now undergoing a miscarriage…she got pregnant with her IUD in place. It happens to less than 1% of IUD users but it does happen.

    • Nearly Normal June 6, 2018 at 10:40 am #

      Very sad situation. Must be hard on her, I imagine.

  5. Sarah P. June 5, 2018 at 8:41 pm #

    Hello All,

    Indeed it is not the child’s fault he or she was conceived in such situations. See the paragraph I wrote above the photo of the woman holding the baby. Also, note that I call doing this to a child as an evil act. Essentially someone is using an innocent human being (a child) to be no more than a human pawn to break up a marriage. I feel terrible for this child and agree the child should not be brought into the fight. I would never shame a child or be mean to a child if my H conceived a child with an OW. I was referring very specifically to a situation where the other woman shows up at the wife’s house with OW’s child in tow and attempts to agress the wife and the wife’s children. Very specific situation. And the child does not deserve to be shamed. But it is pretty audacious for the OW to show up at wife’s house without warning and agress the wife and her children. This takes away the wife and the children’s rights to know these details in a way that is not traumatic for the wife’s children or the child of the affair. What child wants to be dragged to a strangers home and shown that “daddy” has a real family and real children and that the illegitimate child we’ll never (realistically) see daddy, know daddy, or live in a nice two parent family with daddy. That is the context in which my comment was written.

    Most men never leave their first family for their second. An illigimate child will be cursed from the day he or she is born (unless he or she is adopted into a 2 parent family who were unable to have children).

    The child born from an illegitimate relationship is not to blame. I have compassion for these children and nothing angers me more than when a person gets pregnant in order to use another human being as a pawn.

    That is terrible. The child should not be the object of hatred but because of mom’s poor choices, the child will never fit in.

    My ire was directed at aggressive other women who arrives at the door and shows the wife’s children that they have a sibling they did not know about. The OW is bringing both her child and the wife’s children into a traumatic situation intentionally. It feels like a revenge tactic on the part of the OW and all children get hurt. That is the very specific situation I have a problem with. That is the situation where a woman would need to be called out for showing up hoping to get revenge.

    My only hope is that mistresses who come across this article think twice. Because in the end, her child will get hurt the most. It’s such a cruel thing to bring an innocent baby into the world as a mere pawn. And that breaks my heart. Every child is innocent and cannot help under which circumstances he or she was born. I just wish adults would be less selfish.

    Sarah

  6. Sarah P. June 5, 2018 at 9:37 pm #

    Rose,
    That is horrible news for your family and I am so very sorry. 😔

    I hope your daughter heals quickly and I hope she has an excellent physical and emotional support system in place. I also hope your daughter can treat herself with compassion and care during this time. 🙏 😢

    Sarah

    PS- Has anyone else suffered this pain?

  7. TheFirstWife June 5, 2018 at 11:33 pm #

    I stand by my post.

    OW shows up with kid (other child).

    Not appropriate for the Wife to trash talk or address the situation in front of the child. The children should not be a party to those conversations. Ever!

    It is wrong. It is unChristian.

    Again – the role of all the adults – to act in the best interest of all the children. No matter what the situation is. The adults are to model the appropriate behavior at all times.

    Sorry – I call it as I see it.

  8. Lou June 7, 2018 at 11:39 am #

    100% of the blame for any of It cannot be on the OW. The CS needs to own half the responsibility for the affair, birth control & 100% of the responsibility for betraying their spouse. I don’t agree with this post at all. Sure there are some women out their looking for meal tickets or targeting married men BUT men that are married should not be having affairs. Period. I know lots of cases of affairs and even in my own marriage I know my CS led the OW on. He told her lies about our marriage, led her to believe they were meant for each other – now was the OW smart for believing that? No. But they both can split that responsibility.

    The only person who has any obligation to the spouse is the married partner. Not the OW. Birth control is a two person responsibility. Men are not released from being responsible for birth control. If a child is born in an affair relationship then the CS has just as much responsibility in that as the OW does.

    When i was cheated on it was easy to blame the OW and try and relieve my spouse of his role in it but that’s not reality.

  9. TheFirstWife June 8, 2018 at 6:45 am #

    Lou you raise an excellent point. The Married Man (MM) is not a victim. He is responsible.

    Yes there are poachers out there. We have all seen them. They are our friends and co-workers and fellow parishioners and relatives. Even strangers.

    Just b/c a person makes advances or suggestive comments – the “target” can walk away. And decline.

    Regarding an A – it cannot happen without two consenting parties. (I am not including drunken ONS here). Specifically an A – it takes two.

    • Shifting Impressions June 8, 2018 at 8:21 pm #

      Lou
      I agree with TFW, you make some really good points here. Sometimes it’s easier to blame someone other than our partners but you are so right in saying that just isn’t reality.

  10. Exercisegrace June 9, 2018 at 4:08 pm #

    My first comment didn’t post so take 2!
    There is a huge difference between the forgiveness my faith asks of me, and the reconciliation that it does not require. Asking and receiving forgiveness for our sins, does not remove the consequences of our sin. The Bible makes the abundantly plain as well.

    I would be extremely cautious about giving a woman a window into my world, who has shown herself deranged enough to conceive a child for the sole purpose of destroying my marriage and family. My concern would be her ongoing manipulation of all involved, including the child! I couldn’t risk accusations of abuse, etc. being leveled at me or WORSE one of MY children. My first and only job is the safety and well being of my children. When dealing with an OW of this level, they are capable of anything. I have dealt with a true bunny boiler and trust me, you want to keep that kettle of crazy as far away as possible. Still, I would feel nothing but pity for the child himself. The door would be open for a relationship when s/he was 18, and able to have one independent of his/her mother.

    If the situation warranted some contact, it would come under the boundary of continued no contact with the OW herself. All communication would take place via a qualified third party. Including any drop off and pick up for any visits. But even this would be very limited.

    Sadly this is another circumstance where people outside of the situation want to throw additional burden onto the shoulders of the betrayed spouse. Think of the child, they plead! He’s so innocent! Well, yes he is. But he isn’t my concern. His mother must shoulder the consequences of her own actions, and offer whatever explanations she has to her child as to why that child is growing up without a father. My husbands OW always insisted on providing the condoms. I asked him if it ever occurred to him that she might have been tampering with them. Nope. It did not. Absolutely 100% he shouldn’t have been sexually involved with her. But unless a man just doesn’t use any protection at all, I don’t think he is obligated beyond whatever financial support is legally required. Thankfully we dodged that particular bullet!

    • Sarah P June 10, 2018 at 11:00 pm #

      Hi ExerciseGrace,

      As I recall, you were aggressed by the other woman and if I recall correctly you incurred some very real health issues because of your husband’s affair. I still want to email you about that. I have some questions that should be taken off-line. Let me know if I am able to email you privately.

      Caveat: Nothing said in emails is used for the blog UNLESS someone gives me a story they ask me to tell. So far, I have only used one and it was in the post about sexual addiction. That person was not a reader of the blog. Then, I told my observations of the situation and not the person’s words, even though I had been given permission.

      I agree with everything you have said in your comments. Unfortunately, I was also aggressed by the other woman and she did not stop until she got my life.

      I heard from neutral third parties that it had become her obsession over a period of months and that she started it. He did not even know who she was until she picked him out of a crowd, asked someone if he was taken, and when she learned he was taken and had a new home in one of the most expensive zip codes in the country, she announced she would take my life. Literally. And she did.

      The people who witnessed it assumed she was drunk and talking due to an altered state. They apologized for not telling me (until after the poach) because what they heard her say she was planning to do was so outrageous, they dismissed it. (They were all also Christians and she was allegedly one too. And so was my ex.) They could not conceive why someone would announce she got off on destroying the lives of other females and that he and I were her new target. If I had been in the situation of the witnesses, I would have assumed she was really drunk and saying things she would never do. Because who announces those things to large groups? She did.

      And she did take my life (that former life) and got to live in my house until it sold, which happened over a 2 year period. As a parting gift, I got stage one cervical cancer. I had seen the same MD for years and was always getting STI checks because it was what I did. It had become a habit. The MD was able to look through my records and say with 99% certainty, it was passed along to me due to the affair. The operation that I had to have endangered my ability to have children. Luckily, through a lot of prayer, I was able to heal and have them.

      Here is the thing, I never treated her as she treated me. I have a “no revenge” policy on how I conduct my life.

      I sent all communications through an attorney and kept it focused solely on the details of selling a mutually owned home where I had contributed more to the down payment and where I was first on the title.

      You are absolutely correct in your views about bringing someone else’s child into your home. It could be the Christian thing to do, but in these situations you are probably not dealing with someone who is a Christian. That person would probably use that child to infiltrate and destroy your marriage even if you as a person did the so-called right thing.

      While a person can be Christian (or Jewish) it does not obligate them to put themselves in situations where they know it would be an un-wise decision. There is nothing in the Torah or the Bible that indicates a person must put themselves into a ‘den of thieves,’ so to speak. (At least in this sense.)

      Another thing is that even though Christianity uses the Old Testament as part of the Bible, it was written within a Jewish context and that context was guided by Jewish law. I started studying Judaism 10 years ago when ‘the family secret’ came out. That is, I am actually fully Jewish on my mom’s side and a descendent of many well-known rabbis. The family secret came out after I had a DNA test. It was a good thing I had been married to a Jew for 6 years before I knew this. He does not study Judaism, but I have taken to reading their very long interpretations of the Old Testament.

      I would recommend any Christian to study Jewish interpretations– not because you want to become Jewish, but because it will provide food for thought on the verses in the Old Testament. It is very interesting if anyone likes to study the Bible and its interpretations in general.

      There is a reason why I wrote that prior paragraph. Judaism has a very different opinion on how children of affairs should be treated. In the past, when a child born to a Jewish woman was a product of an extramarital affair, it was given the label “mamzer” and a stigma was put on the entire family for the end of time. (Quite literally). The child was recognized as unholy and this thought continued for many centuries. Thankfully, these old customs have gone away since the child of these relationships did not choose to be born into such a situation.

      Still, I was surprised to hear this custom sometimes continues to this day. I am copying and pasting part of an article from the New York Jewish Week. Note, I am NOT the Sarah they speak of. They changed the woman’s name to Sarah for identity protection:

      “He was an acquaintance, someone Sarah* had known for years, so she didn’t worry when she found herself alone with him one wintery day. She discovered she was pregnant soon after he raped her. In her thirties, childless and aching to be a mother, she decided to raise this unexpected baby on her own.

      Back then Sarah, who had divorced a few years earlier in a U.S. civil court, had no idea that her child could be considered a “mamzer” – the closest thing Judaism has to a bastard or an untouchable – not because her child was conceived during a rape, but because, according to Jewish law, Sarah had been married when she was raped.

      A mamzer is a Jew born from an incestuous relationship or a relationship between a married Jewish woman and a Jewish man who isn’t her husband.

      According to Jewish law, a mamzer can only marry another mamzer or a convert. “Mamzerut” – mamzer status – is inherited, so all descendants of a mamzer will be a mamzer, till the end of time.”

      OUCH. In the past, these children born into Jewish families were reminded everyday of their lives of their “unholy” status and so was the family where these things occurred. The family was cursed forevermore. That is quite a burden to bear and the Jews I know threw away this custom long ago.

      But, I really wanted to speak to the cultural differences between how Christians view children born of affairs versus how (a small percentage) of Jews still view children born of affairs. I have intuited that we have a lot of Christian readers and I think it is interesting to discuss the way Christians handle this issue versus Jews. (After all, we are joined by the Old Testament and Jesus was a Jew.)

      But, before I go, I will say one thing about how some other women aggress wives. There was a woman who was sitting in her house on a Saturday night with her tween. Husband was working late. She suspected husband was having an affair, but was not ready to face that fact and did not tell her child. She told her female family members to be on prayer alert and they were. She sensed an affair and sensed she was in danger and asked for prayer. Soon, husband came home high on a drug that made him aggressive and holding a loaded gun. A very calculated and collected woman, his lover, (who was not drunk or high) was right behind him suggesting that they could be together if he killed his wife and child. Luckily, wife and child made it out alive and I have no doubt in my mind it was Divine Intervention. That is all I am willing to say about this true story. Affairs are ugly and very few people will tell exactly how ugly because they are afraid of being judged. Even I have never told how ugly my situation was. Also, let’s not forget Mary Jo Buttafuoco. She had to live it and was not lucky enough to escape the gun. It will be a memory she never forgets.

      Sarah

  11. TheFirstWife June 9, 2018 at 4:40 pm #

    I think my position needs clarification. In response to the child of the A and the OW appearing at the doorstep of the BS – that is my very specific focus that such a scenario – with a child being present – is not the time to be venting your feelings towards the OW.

    In that scenario – as presented in Sarah P.’s article – I take the position that the adults need to take the lead and behave respectfully in front of the child.

    It is the responsibility of the parents to not name call or disrespect each other in front of the child.

    My position – to make sure I am not being unclear or ambiguous – had nothing to do with the BS taking any responsibility for the OC.

    The BS (in my opinion) is only responsible for behaving respectfully and responsibly towards the OW in front of the child.

    Please re-read the post starting at the point where the OW has introduced the OC to the children of the BS. The next paragraph is what I am very specifically referring to.

    In no way do I assert any opinion on what the BS should do in terms of accepting responsibility for the OC.

    IMO no one should be using words like “whore” in front of any child.

    Children should not be dragged into adult issues.

  12. Exercisegrace June 9, 2018 at 6:42 pm #

    TFW, my comment was not in response to yours in any way, and was not written as a criticism of how you feel things should be handled. I was simply addressing the issue in general. What my own feelings would be if a child had resulted from my husbands affair. I hope you don’t think I am saying that you are “wrong”. I’m sorry if my post seemed like it was directed at yours, or was directed at yours.

    I agree that adults should conduct themselves in a dignified manner in front of kids. I hope if I was placed in such a horrible, situation that I would be able to conduct myself in a manner aligned with my beliefs. But when it comes to the trauma of an affair, sometimes we react in ways we aren’t proud of. The betrayed spouse has my sympathy in this situation. The OW was going (in my opinion) for a scorched earth/shock and awe-style attack. If she had been conducting herself as a reasonable adult would, she NEVER would have delivered this horrible news without warning and in the presence of the children. Personally I believe the best thing the wife could have done would have been to shut the door in her face, and refused any contact until the husband and wife could discuss the situation with their attorney. It’s probably best to not not react too negatively OR too positively in the heat of the moment and make statements that could come back to bite you.

    Sadly, sometimes children get dragged into these situations against their (and our!) will. My husbands OW decided to reveal vulgar and graphic details of her sexual relationship with my husband, to my 15 year old daughter via social media. Thankfully my 12 year old son didn’t see, but she intended him to do so. My older two WERE stalked and harassed, we received anonymous death threats (among other threats) phoned at all hours of the day and night. The OW created fake social media profiles and infiltrated private church youth group and school pages so she could keep tabs on where the older two were. We had to alert their schools of a potential threat. We had to explain to our kids what was going on. I could go on and on about what my husbands bad choices subjected me and the kids to. Six years after d-day, random things still happen. I explain all this to simply say, sometimes it isn’t as easy as believing we should respect each other and sometimes kids are safer knowing the full reality.

  13. TheFirstWife June 10, 2018 at 12:27 am #

    EG. I remember reading details of your story and the ensuing nightmare. I feel terribly that things continue to occur so many years later.

    Fortunately your children are st an age they can understand things. They are not 2 or 3 yo – who don’t have the capacity to understand what is going on.

    Obviously the OW is mentally unstable and could have been the lead in Fatal Attraction based on her harassment of you and your family.

    It’s too bad you have not been able to have her arrested for stalking or some other charge.

    I know of another family being harassed by the BS – a make – whose W had an A and after it ended she went off the deep end and ended up in jail. The BH is now harassing the man (and family) of the guy his wife had an A with.

    Interfering with the former CH’s business, emailing his clients and causing the former CH to lose business. He is in revenge mode to destroy this man. No matter what.

    I hope the stalking of you & family stops for good. No one should have to live like that. I would have thought by now the crazy AP in your case would have moved on.

    So sorry for you.

  14. Sarah P. June 10, 2018 at 1:12 am #

    Hi ExerciseGrace, I got this comment from you in my email– is it the one that went missing?

    “Sarah, very good article! Sometimes I think our society confuses two concepts: forgiveness and reconciliation. As a Christian, my faith asks me to forgive those who have hurt me. It does not however, require me to reconcile with them. Further, even once a person has sincerely repented and been forgiven of their sins, they are not free from the consequences of their sinful choices.

    In many (if not most) cases, the OW has ZERO remorse for her actions. I think that is why we betrayed spouses often have such anger directed toward her. Our husbands have demonstrated their remorse through words and actions. The OW often has done the exact opposite. In our case, she went full bunny boiler, stalked, harassed and phoned anonymous death threats (among many other things).

    As much pity as I would feel for a child cold-heartedly conceived as a weapon of destruction against my marriage and my children, I would not necessarily feel obligated to bring this child into our home and family. It’s highly doubtful that the OW would have a sudden change of heart, and there is NO way I would give her an open channel into our home. The child would almost certainly be used by her to seek any and all information she could use against us. What a nightmare if she chose to make accusations of child abuse against you, and manipulated her child to falsely accuse you? Or worse! Accuse one of your older children! As a betrayed spouse, my only responsibility would be to protect my own children from harm. Remember, the OW has likely already been told what sub-par wives and mothers we are. They have shown who they are and what levels they are willing to sink down to in order to get what they want. Believe them.

    If I felt the situation warranted more involvement, I would only agree if there was absolutely no direct contact with the OW. A third party social worker would be hired to facilitate contact and to pick up and drop off the child. The OW would not be given a chance to manipulate emotions by using her child as a pawn. This is not on me, as the betrayed wife. Again, as sorry as I would feel for the child, it is his or her own mother that chose the circumstances of the birth. Yes, both parties are responsible for birth control. But I have read blogs where condoms were sabotaged and even dug out of the trash and used to impregnate the OW. Crazy! But it happens.

    I am thankful beyond words we never had to deal with this. My husband said the OW always brought the condoms and in fact insisted on it. I asked him if it EVER crossed his mind that she might be poking holes in them or something and he looked horrified. Nope never occurred to him. They truly are idiots when they are having an affair.”

    Thanks,
    Sarah

  15. Sarah P. June 10, 2018 at 1:59 am #

    Hello to Those Who Are in this Situation,

    For those of you who are going through this very frightening situation as we speak, was this article helpful for you? Did it clear up the questions you have or is there anything else you need to know about your situation? Please understand that you have rights and you have a voice. I pray that you find peace and solace and that your wayward spouse is willing to understand what he has done to harm your family. I pray that your spouse is able to reconcile with you and move forward as best as you can as a family. I know this is something you have never wanted to deal with– none of us do — and I know this is a difficult time for you. I hope you are able to surround yourself with supportive people who can help you keep on an even keel despite the drama your spouse has visited upon your family. Please let me know if I can help if anything else comes up.

    Many Blessings,
    Sarah

  16. Gina June 11, 2018 at 2:41 am #

    Hello All,
    Unfortunately I am in this situation. Thank You so much for speaking about this situation with compassion and humor. I have to laugh or check myself into the mental hospital.
    This year will be my 12th wedding anniversary, we have been together 21 years. My husband helped me raise my 2 children from my first marriage since my son was 6 months old. He is 22 now and my daughter is 25. I thanked God everyday for him. We are 10 years apart, with him being younger. I wanted a child with him and he did not want children, he loved mine. Now they won’t speak to him.
    When the kids were teenagers they got into trouble and my H seemed to be going though stuff of his own, but not sharing his feelings. I dove into the kids so that I would not loose them to drugs. My H dove into a coworkers crazy life. Her H abused her and my H was a knight in shining armor. All I know is that they have known each other since 2012, my H stopped sleeping with me in 2014 when my son graduated high school and left the house. I thought that he was having empty nest syndrome, but he announced he wanted a child and wasn’t sure he wanted to be married anymore…I was 48. I knew that my chances were slim to conceive, I was angry and hurt. I think that this was the time that he was falling for her. To top it off my daughter turned up preg with a man that abused her and that’s when everything fell apart even further. We slept in the same room but never were intimate, I knew something was up, but he would not talk.
    I found out about the baby before I knew that he was involved in a physical affair. I found out though an email about how baby bear misses his daddy, that was the day after Mothers Day 2016…..he lied to me and said that he decided to be a sperm donor to a woman at work who was married..she was now divorced and he decided to be in the kids life, he was 8 months old..I told him that I would like to be also, lets raise him together…I believed it for a day…even sat the kids down and told them that story, they didn’t believe him either, but we all lead him to believe that we did.
    The week after I found out I asked to see a picture…he was beautiful. Then without her knowing he brought him to me. That was May 2016. It wasn’t until Aug 2016 that I met with her to get the story. Found out baby was conceived the old fashioned way and they were in love. Then she said that she was done with him because he wouldn’t leave me. She lied to her entire family, told them he was divorced. We cried together and I told her to please respect my marriage now and let him go…..Its now June 2018 and she is still trying..my H is in therapy and we all go to the same person. I had him go to a session with her because they were not communicating, that’s when she told him that she didn’t have this child for him and I and that anyone else would have been gone by now. I realized that she did this on purpose and he was too stupid to see it. Even now he still cannot totally let her go. We had to sell our beautiful home because of child support and now we live apart but in the same complex.
    Since the day that I met his son, he was my son also. He will be 3 in Sept and he adores me. OW is angry that her son has a relationship with me, she hears about me almost everyday.
    I believe that he is slowly letting her go and grieving the fact that the white picket fence will not be built with her. We are now spending most weekends together and giving his son the family time that he deserves. She keeps using baby to manipulate, cause guilt and shame. On wed night he told me that he still wants her but he knows the best thing for his son is him and I, then on thurs night she told him that she bought a townhouse and its closing next week. I’m sure he is devastated since he lost his home, his kids, and the respect of his family and coworkers. He now feels betrayed again, the first time was last year when she began to date and sleep with other men cause he wouldn’t file for divorce. Why would he still want her? The guilt I believe causes him to not want to see her for who she really is because then he could not justify to himself what he did. There is no describing the pain that I feel sometimes, but I have come so far, why would I stop now? God has been there for me, he is why I stand.
    I hope to reconcile with my H, he is the greatest love I have ever known and the worst pain, but I cannot wait forever. I live my life and look forward to the times together. I use the pain to grow and am reflecting on my part in the demise of the marriage so I won’t make the same mistakes. We still do not sleep together, we only hug when we part.
    These women are victims and they get lost in the idea that they deserve a good man no matter who he belongs to. She has caused so much devastation in my life. My only wish is that she starts dating again and meets the man of her dreams. When we met she even said that the baby was her idea, she knew he wanted one. I looked at her and thought, damn, you saw a way to get him to leave and you took it. You just didn’t realize how strong and in love I was with my H. I really don’t think they were sleeping together too long before she got preg, maybe 6 months. All I know is that she uses baby to cause guilt so he cannot move on with me. He feels a responsibility to her…I hope now he sees that she just wanted money and control. She never loved him, only the idea of him. She doesn’t even know my H, only the parts that he wanted her to see. She says that she is jealous of me. Why? Cause not only do I have the man you wanted but I have your son also? Karma is a bitch.
    Would love to hear other stories, it makes us stronger.

  17. Tired June 11, 2018 at 12:00 pm #

    Hi Gina. I really feel for you because I found myself in a similar situation. My husband also said he didn’t want children. Then the other woman came along and all of a sudden he did. The first I heard of it was when I caught him out in an affair and all of a sudden he started saying he wanted children. I am glad I caught him when I did because I think the other woman had a similar plan to your other woman. But it was exposed before she could put it into action. The relationship never quite got off the ground and we stayed together. She had worked on him for months before my husband even realised it was becoming inappropriate…pretending to be his ‘friend’ and advising him about our fertility problems. But it was all an act to wheedle her way in. She thought SHE would solve this problem by having his child! What a thoughtful ‘friend’ she was!

    I think it is amazing that you have accepted the child and made him a part of your family. I do not think I could do this. This must be very hard on you. I can just imagine how manipulative the other woman is, hoping your husband will leave you to be with her. I don’t know how a woman can be so cruel to destroy someone else’s happiness and life for their own selfishness. There are so many men in the world, why do they have to choose someone who is married to someone else? I suspect it is not because they are victims, but because they are desperate. How old is the other woman? Ours was mid thirties and of a culture that expects women to marry before they are thirty. I think she went after my husband because he was unhappy in his job, weak and vulnerable and thought it was much easier for her to poach him than to find a single man of her own.

    When our other woman did meet someone else, after pursuing my husband for months after he ended their ‘friendship,’ she was off with the new man very, very quickly and got pregnant almost immediately. Everyone thinks she tricked him into it. I just hope this man was single and not another married one. It really seems like she didn’t care who the man was as long as she got a baby. Her doing this really made my husband see what a manipulative liar she is. Maybe you could feel sorry for them that they are so desperate, but it is just such an evil way to try to get a man. I can have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

    Your other woman probably thought getting pregnant would seal the deal, she probably didn’t expect to end up as a single mother. No wonder she is jealous. I hope she does meet someone else too, so at least you won’t have to worry about this any longer. It must be so emotionally taxing. Your husband has stayed with you though, and your accepting his child so graciously would really make him see who the better person is. But he is very cruel to be telling you he is in love with her and that he wants her.

    I hope things work out for you.

    • Gina June 13, 2018 at 10:55 am #

      Tired,
      Ha, your name is how I feel!!
      It is not cruel that he tells me that he loves her, I am being a safe place and listening to his heart. I know that those are just feelings because she spit his child out and he lives in a fantasy wanting the family life he never had as a child. He realizes that nothing is perfect and he struggles with letting that go. We have always been best friends and I see this as a healing and rebuilding process.
      I am 10 years older than he is, and she is 8 or 9 years younger than him. She is around 34, too old to be doing something like this I would think….mentally more like 16, but hell they both are. When I met with her I asked her to respect my marriage, 2 weeks later she was back in full force. She is evil.
      I have to let go of the past and rebuild. I let a little bit more go everyday and every time I get to talk about it to people that understand it heals me. He cannot do this for me in this capacity, he cannot process strong emotions coming from me right now. So thank you for your time and thoughts. I feel listened to and validated.
      I am sitting here outside my apt as I write this….so this happened right now….my H just came walking up with a bday card and present. I am taken by surprise. Its things like this that tell me what I am doing is right. God is good.
      I wish my H had the strength to end things with her, he just avoids her, not really telling her anything. Just saying he needs time and she is free to move on with her life.
      When she did date last year he was angry, jealous, torn….the person he gave up everything for just gut punched him cause her needs were more important. Hopefully he saw how selfish she is. She shows it again and again.
      What I show is that I am a child of God and that I follow his plan. It is a balancing act to give selflessly and not be a doormat. I know that I am showing strength, what is written in this card tells me so.

      • Tired June 14, 2018 at 10:35 am #

        Hi Gina. Yeah, that’s why I used that name. I think nowadays I should change it to Ultra Tired. I’m sick of the whole business.

        Nobody who was a decent person would do what this woman has done to you and your life. When you say you hope your husband would ‘end things with her’ do you mean they are still having an affair or do you just mean you hope he would come to closure about it?

        I’m glad you said that about the therapist. I was wondering how you could all see the same person and have that work out. What if they mix up all the details and spill things you have said in confidence? I’m sure therapists are more professional than that, but I wouldn’t want to be seeing the same person my husband and the other woman were both seeing! It does sound like yours is taking sides. I hope your husband will stop seeing her as well.

        I suppose if the boy is almost 3 you have had some time to process all your feelings about it all. I am still amazed that you have been able to accept this so graciously. I don’t think I could do so.

        Happy birthday Gina. Hugs

        • Gina June 15, 2018 at 8:11 am #

          Hi Ultra Tired,
          no they haven’t been physically together for 2 years. He has honored my boundries and has not spent time with her and has been trying to emotionally cut himself off from her. He is being transparent and treating me good. He has not told her that there is not a future for them, because he doesn’t know for sure that’s what he wants. They are both selfish. He is emotionally immature and she uses the baby to manipulate him. He needs to grow some and stand up to her. I can’t do it for him, he has to find his voice. If he doesn’t he will loose me. We have such a great time together, but he tells me he sees me as a friend only…ouch. Because of his immaturity I think he is waiting for the butterflies to return. I admit, I miss them too, but I would much rather have a mature responsible man next to me then someone addicted to puppy love. I told him he will never feel anything for me unless he lets her totally go. From his actions I believe that is what he is trying to do, but he needs to do it in his own time so he cant say he was forced into anything. Our lease is over dec 1, so by Oct 1 he needs to decide to try us again or not. I don’t want to give him a time limit, but he is too comfortable and needs to shit or get off the pot.
          I am adopted and have issues with rejection and abandonment….I did not want this little boy to feel that. I didn’t want him to suffer because of the stupidity of his mother and father. He is a beautiful soul. I do not see or think of his mom when he is with me. He is here for a reason. He has taught me unconditional love, he changed me. Loving him is loving the rejected part of me.
          I agreed to see the same therapist because I wanted her to hear all sides from us directly. I wanted her to know what was really going on between my H and I and not from the OWs side. I believe that it was a good thing, but she is too much like the OW so we both stopped seeing her. He needs some time to think and reflect. I wish I knew someone that he could relate to. What therapist wouldn’t just tell me to run away? Who has been in this situation and can talk to my husband about what he is feeling? I found one group, Marriage Helper, and they helped me a bunch, but the plan is to totally cut off the OW…we can’t do that. So my H has to find the strength and balls to keep her in her place, talk about the child only and cut off emotional/personal communication. I need someone that can help with that when he gets weak.

          • Tired June 16, 2018 at 11:22 am #

            Your husband is telling you that he sees ‘you as a friend?’ How long are you going to live in limbo? This man probably hasn’t been celibate for 2 years. If it is not with you or her, it is with someone else. He is a man. It sounds to me like he is sitting on the fence. And playing you for a fool. Trying to get the best of both worlds. You play the mother, she plays the excitement. Gives him sex, and the child binds both of you to him. He is pitting you both against each other in a contest where only he can win. HIM! …he will get one of you. Nothing to lose there, If you want to win you need to stop allowing him to do this. But I’m not sure what prize you will win in the end. No one wants the booby prize. I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but I think it is true.

            • Gina June 17, 2018 at 10:38 am #

              thank you for wanting to protect me…my H did not go after sex, if he did he wouldn’t be so stuck in emotion he would just be on to the next. My H is very emotional and it drives every part of him, especially his sex drive.
              It would be very easy for me to take what you said and project it onto him, but I won’t. I know him, he didn’t have sex with her right away and he didn’t have sex with both of us at the same time. He followed the feelings that he thought she was making him feel and she went for it. The last time they were together july 2016 was the the first time in months before that. They never went anywhere together, he always came home. She was a temporary escape. I told him to go live with her and he didn’t. When you give someone permission to be with their lover, the wanting/excitement dies.
              Limbo is hard, I am using the time to better myself and be a better person. In doing that I am seeing if I really want this relationship to continue. But the more we talk and spend time together, the more we align. I don’t want him to rush back if he is just going to do this again, I want him to be sure that he knows who he is and makes the choice to be with me. He has done so much to cause me to build trust. When we sold the house in Dec and moved apart, I told him that he had a year to find himself and decide what he wants. So there is an end. When something takes awhile to build (their relationship) it will take awhile to let it go. We have been together 22 years so it would take forever to let us go.
              If I even had a feeling that he was with someone else I would have filed.

              • Sarah P June 18, 2018 at 8:33 pm #

                HI Gina,

                I just read this comment after the one I posted about unconditional love. I am so glad you have set the right boundaries and have given him a date where he needs to find out what he wants.

                It is so true that if you give a spouse permission to move in with their lover, that usually causes the lover to lose their ‘specialness.’ If a H moves in, he will see that his lover also has metaphorical and literal dirty laundry, dishes in the sink, bad hair days, and a face without make-up and fancy hair in the morning.

                You are handling this the right way. I just wanted to reiterate that as a daughter of God, you have infinite worth and no experience in this mortal realm can take away your God-given worth.

                Sarah

                PS- This is a little off-topic, but I wanted to show the women and the men here reading that the “other woman” is not some fantasy lady. Most times (especially if a man meets an affair partner at work) they see only the best of that person. They are dressed well and (generally) well behaved. They appear to look more like a mythical Goddess than a very human wife they come home to. But, that is because of the CONTEXT and even more true if the OW uses insane amounts of make-up, false eye lashes, and hair extensions. Here is a youtube video by a famous make-up artist. You all need to watch it because what this woman can do with make-up is nothing short of miraculous. If the ‘other woman’ is excellent at applying make up and wearing the right clothes, she creates a perfect illusion. But, if a husband marries an OW like this, one day the make-up will come off and the man will be shocked. Check the video to see what I am talking about. Anytime I watch this woman’s videos my jaw is in the floor. Literally. Kandee does a make-over for someone going through a hard break up. I love Kandee because even though she does make-up, she is positive and empowering to women. Love it.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9SR_07AD78

                • Gina June 19, 2018 at 6:31 am #

                  Sarah,
                  Yes peoples jaws drop when I tell them that, but it is a fact. Affairs always end unless they are so co dependent and full of shame that they stay to prove a point, but they are miserable. She is surely showing her true colors now. He realizes she had the baby to manipulate him and get me to leave. She is now keeping the baby from him….I have an event (Kyle Cease, hes fantastic) in Calif and asked my H if he wanted to ride along and visit his Dad with his son while i’m at the event. All was worked out until she heard that I was going, then she flipped and said that her son was not going on a family vacation!! Well sorry sweetheart, we have already done that a few times. Then she took the baby fri night crying that she didn’t spend anytime with him, when she dropped him sat night she told my H how he is grumpy and Grandma said he didn’t go down for a nap till…..wait….WHAT?? He was livid, and this HAS to keep happening for him to fully SEE her…and he knows it.
                  He says that she wants everything I have, she wants to be me. Then he said that she will never be me, EVER.
                  So yes, we are in limbo, but he is continuing to move forward. He is working on himself. He is not having sex with anyone, He is being transparent and being truthful when questions are asked. I cannot go for a post nup because this will say “I don’t trust you” and will push him away. I don’t trust him, I trust that God is now guilding him to do whats right.
                  I was raised Catholic, but stopped going when I thought I had my life under control. (boy was I wrong) I also believe that most religions are the same. They all have a “God” “Higher Being” and the main message is love. My God doesn’t give you anything you can’t handle, but when you are in a season that you cannot understand or that brings pain, that is your chance to move closer to Him and surrender. I now listen to Pastor Furtick and my H started listening about a year ago also. He has helped us so much. If anyone is interested start with “It had to happen” find him on youtube.
                  So we are on a journey, apart, but also together. I stand back and watch my H loose everything and be in pain, I just listen. When I’m quiet and listen the response voice he hears is God. I cannot protect, I can only support or he will never learn the lesson. I want to ring his neck….he is a man, he has no logical brain. He always goes the long way around, I want the shortcut. So I accept that this is the way he is, its the way he learns. He has to keep feeling the pain of what he did in order to see that it was wrong even though it resulted in a son.
                  As for going after the baby, there is no court that would take him away. If we said that she is unfit, the baby could go to her sisters or mother and that would be worse. He is not in any physical danger and when with us we love, love, love him. Let her dig her own grave, we will gladly take him when she finds some one else to screw.
                  All this and I have kids too, 25 and 22, that now hate him. Fathers Day was fun but bittersweet. I didn’t mention them, but I know it hurt. He loved them, provided for them, gave them everything and the only thing they see is all the wrong. One day, when he decides to work on the marriage we will approach that battle. We will have to be strong, there is too much pain.
                  I will surely watch those videos, was never much into makeup but it cant hurt since she is almost 20 years younger then me. The good thing is my H is 10 years younger than me but can see her immaturity now. She is a selfish, crazy bitch.

  18. Tired June 11, 2018 at 2:38 pm #

    Sarah, your article was hilarious, but true. Of course it is a tactic…unless the affair partner is a silly teenager! I think most women know that getting pregnant is not a good idea unless it is a stable relationship! But these women think: “Hey, I don’t have a stable relationship. I’ll get pregnant and then he will stay with me.” Wrong on so many levels. One, if you love someone you have enough respect not to push them into commitment. Two, if you have to force someone into a relationship, is it really a relationship?? This is terrible. If you love someone you will not put them in a situation they do not want. I knew I was older than my husband. He told me he did not want children. I could have got pregnant to force him to stay with me when I was a bit younger, but I had respect for him as a person and I did not do that. I thought that doing this was wrong. It seems I may suffer for this now. It is like it has been all thrown back in my face, now that a pregnancy is unlikely.

    I have no respect for the type of woman who does this. I don’t know how any cheating man who is involved with someone who does this can have either. Can’t they see they are being taken for a fool?! But it seems men’s brain is wired to their penis. They think with the little head. Hoping to make it bigger I suppose. They all seem to think that the bigger the penis, the happier their woman will be, when all we want is loyalty and love. I hope I am not offending any men out there. I am talking specifically about cheating men. The loyal and faithful man will be the one who has the most adoration and love from their wife.

  19. Sarah P. June 11, 2018 at 10:43 pm #

    Hello Tired,
    First off, thank goodness you laughed. The post had many satirical elements and it occurred to me today that I should probably highlight all content that is satirical versus my real content.

    People who have known me in person always brought me to parties to be the impromptu stand up comedian. No one had to drink to laugh and so they had an even more hilarious time when they were drinking. I do not drink, by the way. I just have a mind that spends all day filtering real life through the lens of satire. In person all these over-the-top things are said in gest and my friends laugh because they know I can say things in gest things I would NEVER actually do in real life. That’s part of the humor. I am a mom who writes/works from home and the way I show up in real life (which is generally conservative and thoughtful) makes people laugh more when the satirical observations start to fly. The way I show up doesn’t necessarily match my humor and that makes it funnier to people. They expect one thing to come out of my mouth and get another. A long time ago I had this experience at work after the break up with my ex. One of the people who reported to me ask me to attend a Garden Party at her house with others. When I arrived I realized it was a different kind of garden party. She opened the door and I saw about 40 coworkers smoking things from the garden. They looked up at me standing there and their faces were a mix of frightened, deer in the headlights, and shocked. And that was hilarious to me. (They assumed someone who looked and acted like me at work would call the police.) The woman announced, “I know she looks quiet and conservative but she is cool.” I did not smoke but I did entertain all 40 of them with imitation voices of the South Park characters Eric Cartman and his mom. I could and can imitate both voices and started talking about bad Mr. Kitty who was trying to eat the cheezie poofs and how Eric was telling his mom stories about Mr. Kitty and his mom’s reaction to Mr. Kitty’s said abilities. During that party people were shocked and in awe because they had only seen me at work where I kept it dead serious all the time. They all came up to me at work later and said they had NO idea I could imitate all kinds of voices and create satire on the fly. They were like, “you are always so serious and all about business. We had no idea!”

    So, when people know me and hear it, they chuckle and realize I am not being serious. I am making a satirical comment that hopefully makes the flaws in human nature look funny.

    Unfortunately more satire comes out in these posts than I intend. But I have always seen life through a satirical lens. It has been part of my personality since I was a little kid. I was born satirical. (Note: sarcasm and satire are two different things. Occasionally I am sarcastic, but 95% of the time, I am writing satire and not sarcasm.)

    And when I am talking about dead serious topics like infidelity, my inclination is to write satire to give people something to laugh at so they do not cry. These posts are a mix of dead serious and satire and I jump back and forth between the two so often that I probably come off as cynical or unkind. It is never my intent. I am trying to find humor is these crazy situations so that readers can (hopefully) laugh.

    But about your situation, that seriously makes me angry. There is more than one man who has done that “I don’t want kids” bait and switch until the wife is almost too old to conceive. Note, I am not referring to readers or people who have emailed me. I am referring to observations I have made over the years involving acquaintances and also referring to all the conversations my parents had in front of me when I was growing up. They never filtered anything. They spoke very matter of factly about why a friend of theirs was at the house crying. I would ask and they would tell me. Most of my content comes from those long-gone aquatintances of my parents, things I have over heard while working from a coffee shop, or things that are completely open information, or things from college, or from some of the other comments I read on message boards. But a lot of it also comes from people I don’t know. I will be standing in a grocery line and a stranger will tap me on the shoulder and tell me their whole life story. Or I will be in the bank line and tell me about their terrible divorce. I cannot tell you how shocked my husband is when he sees this. After they leave he will say he was unaware I was friends with that person and wow they were dealing with difficult experiences. And I will say it’s the first time I have ever met them. They started talking to me. It doesn’t matter if I am in Europe or the United States or anywhere. People approach me and tell me their life story. I have no idea who they are but remember tid bits and share those tid bits if they are relevant. I have thousands of life stories accumulated just from going out in public. No joke. I need to say these things because if something remotely related to anyone I am speaking with privately appears to be about them, I assure it’s not. You see, humanity has a big problem. That big problem is called “human nature.” Because human nature is so very human the very same story could be happening to thousands of people at the same time and all of them could be different nationalities. I have spent time in 23 countries because I was looking for a place that did not have the issue called “human nature.” And yet, I found it again wherever I went even if the culture was radically different. Even if we look different on the outside in terms of purely objective physical traits, I will say we are all the same on the inside both literally and metaphorically. If anyone has watched a surgery on YouTube you will know what I mean. Inside we all have the same organs and they are some shade of pink depending on the blood flow accessing an organ or not. But inside we have mental traits that recur repeatedly. These traits cross all cultural boundaries. I like to remind people of that because there are days I will hear an identical story from three different people in my own personal life, in the coffee shop, or wherever. Why? Because people all have the same problems. Maybe the ages, names, and the cultures change, but we all have the same problems. I just felt that was important to state. I don’t need to use confidential information to create posts. I have enough non-confidential material to last several lifetimes. And the most ironic thing is that all these Devious Doctors and Nasty Nurses I mention create their own gossip chain. They tell everyone who will listen about why they had to divorce wife and kids to go with Nasty Nurse. They even do it within the patient areas. It is shocking to me. No one has to gossip about them because they gossip constantly about what they did to the family they left and try to frame it as a good thing. They seriously have these 20 minute monologues they will start in front of patients and strangers about their affair. I don’t know if this is the affect social media has had on society or what because these people WANT others to hear all the gory details. I am seriously puzzled by this phenomenon. Affairs in themselves are outrageous and then the person who left their family for their (fake) soulmate has to tell complete strangers all the gory details. It is light the Twilight Zone or something. There was this thing called “shame” that used to exist. Normal people still have it but I have met an inordinate amount of wayward spouses who don’t have shame. Even worse they scream their self righteous affair stories to anyone in a 30 mile radius.

    Tired, you said your husband was a doctor, right? If so, does the same thing go on in your area or is this a reflection of the mega, ultra liberal state I live in?

    Tired, how are you feeling these days about you and your husband. Any progress to report? I sure hope so!!!

    And of course you can talk about penises since they are generally part of the equation. LOL. If we are on this website, I am pretty sure someone has one or has experienced one due to their male spouse.

    My dad says cheating men have a “case of testosterone poisoning.” And that is probably where I get my sense of humor. My dad is also big on cultural satire and pointing out irony.

    And you are right that we women only want to find a man who loves us and is loyal to us. Once women reach a certain age OR number of partners, it is definitely not about what is in the pants — unless we are referring to wallets. Women want a loyal man who loves them and when they reach a certain age they also hope NOT to spend retirement homeless. Seriously.

    Let us know how things are going. Is “La Skank” moving on to another sucker?

    Sarah

    • Tired June 14, 2018 at 9:58 am #

      You are very funny. I love your comment allowing me to discuss penises. But I just think men way over-rate this. It is more their competition against other men. Women don’t care about the size, if it is banana shaped, or whatever. Testosterone poisoning! Hilarious.

      Yes, he is a doctor but no, I can’t say that I have experienced this behaviour amongst our work colleagues, but then we are both pretty reserved and neither of us are the type of people anyone would say that in front of. Like people think of you, they would think that we’re too serious. Not true, but yeah, we look like that. What we hear is mainly gossip about other people. So I don’t know if it is the ultra liberal place you live in. I personally feel that anyone who goes on like that in front of work colleagues is doing their professional reputation a lot of harm!

      I have thought about our marriage a lot. I think that he is really genuine in that he has no intention of doing such a thing again. He just does not want to be reminded of the things that he did because he is ashamed of it. It is frustrating for me because it has taken so long to drag all these things out of him. But that knowledge was imperative for me to be able to risk being hurt like that again. And I needed independent evidence that would back up what he said. And what I found out was that she was pursuing him, and that he has not contacted her pretty much since when he said he last did. With him being silent, I could not know that for sure. Yet he has been angry that I’m still bringing it up.

      La skank moved on to another sucker ages ago. She’s already had a child to him and they are getting married. More fool him. I just hope he was not another married guy.

      • Sarah P June 15, 2018 at 12:57 am #

        Hi Tired,

        You were dealing with a spouse poacher extraordinaire. Indeed, “La skank.” Or “La Pute” or “La Puta.” Anyway you slice it, this lady was experienced at what she did. I am glad that some other sucker gets her because she will probably leave your H alone. I also hope it was not a married man.

        For whatever reason this reminded me of a guy I know. I feel sorry for him. Several years ago, he was taken for a real ride. He was single. A woman in her early 20’s knew he came from a prestigious family (money) and that even though he had a blue collar job, the family made sure he had a nice house and vacation. He is a very nice guy. He did NOT want to date this women because she came on so strong. She was also physically attractive, but I could see she had a rotten soul to the core. He saw it to (without anyone telling him) but she wore him down. She kept saying he was the most handsome man and she would die without him. And she wanted to have 6 kids so she could see his face in 7 different people!! And she told his family and friends the same thing. The lady was quite an actress and I saw through it completely. However, I kept my mouth shut. I was friends with his elderly parents but not with him. My husband knew what I thought and hoped I was wrong. Anyhow, this little lady who mooched off others got married to this poor guy. His parents bought them a new house. (This lady had never had a job…she just mooched on people. She never went to school either. She just spent all her time looking for suckers.) So they got married and she talked about their huge future family but for whatever reason she did not get pregnant. The guy was starting to wonder. Then one day she came and told him he had a choice: get a divorce or a vasectomy. She had decided her beautiful body could not be subject to something as lowly as a child. (I am being LITERAL. She said that.) His heart sank and he got a vasectomy. Then 6 months later, he found his (male) best friend in bed with his wife.

        The wife and his best friend convinced him he was weak and did not know how to satisfy her. The guy believed them. The guy allowed himself to be bullied out of living in the house his own parents bought. His parents tried to step in but their son begged them not to– he said she was right– he was a loser and did not deserve anything.

        I am going to say something truthful. I met this woman right after the affair came out and I wanted to take her to court on his behalf. This woman was a sociopath. She destroyed his soul and took everything she could from him then got engaged to his best friend. I hope karma comes to get her and his best friend. These are disgusting people.

        He did find someone else who loves him and I would say he was probably meant to be with this woman. He knew her husband and she and her H had kids. Her young husband got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and asked him to ‘take care of’ her and the kids. His dying friend told him he could marry (the dying friend’s) wife or he could take care of her and make sure she and the kids are ok. I am not sure if they married, but they did move in together after they dated. The kids were so young, he raised them as his own and obviously with his friend’s blessing. The guy is a good guy and since the real father of the kids died, he really is the best father the kids could hope for. He is a very kind person and I am sure he is a good husband/boyfriend to the wife. By the way, this was not a creepy situation since he had to be convinced by his dying friend that the friend “chose him” to help with the kids. He felt bad because he did not want to go with his friend’s wife. But after the friend died, he helped the wife platonically as friends and they fell in love the old fashioned way. It worked out the way it was supposed to work out, I suppose. He deserved a great woman who loved him unconditionally and he found her. And the kids love him too and he is the best dad (since they cannot have their own.) Very sad.

        I hate it when people are mis-treated but maybe he needed to be available because he was the right person to step into the situation after the husband died and left a wife and two children under the age of 3 years old. These are the Good Men of the world– the Heroes. They are still together after 10 years and they appear to be happy.

        I just wish people could find their true loves and not have to meet a lot of users along the way.

        I wish the good people of the world could get together and leave the bad people to each other. But the biggest problem is, the bad people don’t want each other because they would have no one to take advantage of. The bad people seek out the best of people because the best of people don’t expect to see them coming. Thus, the best people can be fooled and used up. And on and on it goes.

        Sarah

        • Gina June 15, 2018 at 8:14 am #

          that’s disgusting and tragic. Because of my situation, I accept it and continue to see the lesson and have it change me for the better. Not gonna lie, the pain is unbearable at times, but I continue to heal.
          He deserves all the happiness life can give

          • Sarah P June 18, 2018 at 7:22 pm #

            Hi Gina,

            I hope I do not offend you, but I wanted to give you a little bit of my own view of God. Full disclosure: My view is different than most. My mom’s side of the family is Jewish (but they do not practice and my dad’s side are Protestants from the British isles. Additionally, I am married to a Jew who does not practice Judaism. I study both Christianity and Judaism. I am also interested in what Buddhism can teach us on a philosophical level. Having said that…

            I believe that God restores the years that the ‘locus hath eaten.’ I believe that everything God does is eventually for our ultimate good, but God does not send other women and cheaters our way. (They come of their own free will). God protects our hearts as best as he can during these trials. God can help you grow through this situation and I wanted to re-iterate that God does not agree with what your H and the OW are doing. What they are doing defiles the laws in the 10 Commandments. If people want to be under the protection of God, they need to live their lives according to the 10 Commandments. You are living your life correctly. But, do not ever feel like you need to be a position where you save your husband from himself. You are also allowed to be angry at your H and the other woman. You are allowed to rise up like a lion and try to pursue custody of that child. He was not born under perfect circumstances, but he needs protection from his mom who will be a lousy parent. I have found that people usually don’t do something really terrible in one aeea of their life, only to be a saint in other areas. Bringing a child into the world to be a pawn is evil. That child needs your protection since you can see him as a child of God (which he is) while everyone else is playing life-destroying games. You are also allowed to have righteous anger over this situation. Jesus had righteous anger at appropriate times. My oldest son talked about Jesus being ‘a wimp’ one day. Then I told him the story about how Jesus went all ‘incredible hulk’ when people were defiling the holy place of God. After that he liked Jesus. My youngest one loves Jesus but cracked up when he heard about Jesus throwing tables and pushing over the tables of people who were treating the holy temple as a bank.

            Please don’t ever lose sight of yourself and of your right to be loved and understood. I know your H went through trauma, but so did you. Unconditional love is great, but please give it to yourself FIRST and then to the child second. We can give unconditional love to people who hurt us, but we must ensure that it does not turn into enabling.

            For example: let’s imagine you had a teenager who decided to start using marijuana and he started doing really bad things to get ahold of it. You would love your teen unconditionally, but you would rebuke the harmful thing that your teen was engaging in. You would set boundaries with your teen and enlist the help of professionals to set boundaries without alienating your teen. If you only gave the teen unconditional love, he would realize there was no real penalty for engaging in an activity that could destroy him and others. One time someone said: don’t be so loving that you turn into a squishy jelly fist, but don’t be so punitive that you turn into an iron fist. There needs to be a balance between unconditional love and consequences.

            Know this: however you handle this, I SUPPORT you.

            But, if I am writing to you it is because I am scared for you and want to ensure you know your rights as a human being and your rights as a beloved child of God. God does not send these trials, but he can love us through them. He also does not want us to feel pain due to another’s actions. In the end, God is the only one who can save your husband and he needs saving from himself. I don’t know quite what he experienced as a child, but it is apparent he is trying to “out run” something painful. In these cases, affairs can be used to self-medicate. It is a distraction and can work for a couple of years, but then the new and shiny wears off and it is on to the next thing.

            No matter what happens, I send you blessings and the hope that you can feel God’s tremendous love for you.

            Sarah

        • Tired June 17, 2018 at 7:29 am #

          This is a very evil woman. Why would you ask your husband to get a vasectomy? If you don’t want children there are other ways to not get pregnant. Probably she was thinking that if there was an accident and they had a child together he might get custody and get to live in his own house. That would have got in her way of getting the house for herself and his louse of a friend. But this story is even worse than just that…it’s like it wasn’t enough to dump him for his friend, she wanted to take everything from him, destroy him, and then stop him from moving on to a family of his own.

          Sometimes I just wish I could un-know some of the things I have found out about how other people will do any ruthless thing to get what they want. I never would have believed it was possible to be that low. Chalk it up to life’s experience I suppose. And being too trusting!

          • Sarah P June 18, 2018 at 6:53 pm #

            Hi Tired,

            I think the woman who made her husband get a vasectomy and “stole” the house and his best friend is a sociopath. There is a book called The Sociopath Next Door. It is a must read. Why?

            Because all of us (including me) generally have the idea that if someone is a sociopath they might be in jail, or they might walk around all day kicking cats, or they cannot hide their behavior.

            But here is the thing– only 15% or less of the prison population qualifies as a sociopath. Sociopaths kick cats and other animals or humans but only do so in private. Sociopaths copy the personalities of benign people and use it as a way to fool– the typical wolf in sheep’s clothing.

            I will tell everyone about the time I encountered a sociopath. I have mentioned this person before, but only in regards to her affair.

            Here is what she looked like on the outside: a tall, super-bubbly, blond who could feign concern when needed. She was married and worked on the same floor as her husband. (She was on our team.) She was always organizing celebrations and team building events and schmoozing with the managers.

            But, here are the things she did and said when there were no witnesses. She was the one who seduced that upper manager who was married with 6 kids. Once he gave her the managerial position she needed, she went to HR and claimed he raped her over a period of three years. HR escorted him out the door in hand-cuffs. (Remember, she was also married– and she also asked her husband to get a vasectomy even though she is not the lady I wrote about in the above paragraph.) I had several Twilight Zone experiences with this lady. One time she accidentally took home the manager’s laptop and the manager asked me to get it. (I was senior on the team and in a team lead position).

            Her husband was not home yet. I saw two Siamese-hybrid looking cats cowering under the dining table. I told her they were beautiful cats. She said they were stupid and then showed me how “stupid” they were. She took both of them out and started screaming and chasing them around her condo. The cats dove under the couch. She laughed and said “they fall for it every time. I am just playing.” I did not know how to react because these cats were frightened to death. (I don’t treat animals this way and never have.) I got the laptop and left.

            Several weeks later, she accidentally brought the laptop home again. She called my fiance and asked for him to come and get it. He showed me the email correspondence. I went with him and sat in the car. When she saw I was there, she handed it over.

            Several months after that, she was a lead on some kind of project my fiance was working on. She would sit next to him in meetings. (Here is a side note. She was still married and her husband still worked on the same floor– she was also having sex with the manager with 6 kids AND with a very buff guy she had hired straight out of the military.) In these meetings, she sat next to my fiance and would put her hand in his crotch under the table. He would move and she would move and do it again. He told me about all of this. He was disgusted a married woman would do this. (But, he had no problem when a single woman came to poach him!!!!)

            This lady did so many other things that included fraud on company cards and everything else. It’s such a long story. But this is a snap shot of what a sociopath actually looks like. Most are not in jail and most only do their dirty work in front of one other person. That way there will be no witnesses. It is very sad. Sociopaths are difficult to spot. But I recommend the book The Sociopath Next Door to everyone.

            I believe many of the other women that commenters describe are probably sociopaths. But that is another story.

            Sarah

            • Tired June 20, 2018 at 4:07 am #

              Sarah, that is terrible. I have actually read that book…because I want to be able to spot one next time before they derail my life! I suspect our other woman was one too. She found the next man so quickly…I think he was probably around all along. Maybe he was the one who left his wife. In actuality I have no idea if he was married or not.

              And thanks for the make up video! Lol, I feel motivated to go glam up now 🙂

  20. Sarah P. June 11, 2018 at 11:40 pm #

    Hello Gina,

    Thank you for honoring us by telling your story. Thank you for laughing at my satirical comments. They are there so you can laugh instead of cry about these terrible situations.

    Anytime, I have gone through profoundly traumatic experiences, God and humor gets me through. Otherwise I would crumble to the ground. I write these blogs to validate the betrayed spouses of the world and I am very hard on the folks who knowingly make choices to destroy the lives of others.

    Jesus had righteous anger and many people forget that whether they follow Christianity or Judaism. Well, Jews don’t worship Jesus, but many admire him and his message. (I worship the One God and not Jesus. However I do believe he is the Son of God and he provided the perfect example to live by. I also believe he healed and believe people can heal today by asking God or Jesus or both for healing. My views are complicated since I am half Jewish and half Scottish/Swedish/general wasp countries.) Anyhow there is one thing that always stood out to me. Most people think of Jesus as the ultimate model for love and compassion. And he is. But, they forget the strong rebukes he gave. The Jewish Temple and the Christian church body is a metaphor for marriage and God or Jesus is the metaphorical head of the marriage. When the money changers came to defile the Temple, Jesus went nuclear. I am sure he had some choice words while he was going all Incredible Hulk and throwing tables around. He was angry because the Temple was defiled. Get my drift? Well since marriage is a symbol of the temple of God, affairs defile that Holy Temple. And like Jesus, we are allowed to have Righteous Anger. That is why I am hard of wayward spouses and spouse poachers like the one in your situation. They have defiled the holy temple of marriage and my satirical words are my way of throwing tables at money changers.

    I am just so sorry what you have gone through and once again your real life story is proof these people are not nice people who merely just happened to lose their way.

    I am angry on your behalf for losing your home. I am angry on your behalf since you did the right thing (accept the beautiful and innocent child) just to have him turn from you. The only chance that little boy has is being raised BY YOU. And you have taken in this little innocent soul as your own, he has come to love you, and OW punishes you for that. As I have said before. These are NOT nice people!! Even though you accepted what she saw as a pawn (as your own child) she is so selfish she cannot stand the thought of her child having a stable home. Say what???

    Here is what I would like to know. Is the therapist you see helping? Do they specialize in these topics? Here specialize only in this topic, have the life experience and the credentials to specialize. When I was in graduate school they had no affair recovery curriculum. I have created my own by doing my own research and cobbling together what hopefully might one day be something remotely helpful. My theories have a very heavy bias towards family of origin (both genetically and speaking purely in terms of nurture and not nature). My theories are also biased toward trauma and trauma bonds. I am just seriously curious at to what your therapist says. Does the therapist make both your H and OW take accountability? Also, if therapist starts to hone in on you and wonder what you did to create a cheating husband, run far away. There is so much research now to show there is nothing a person can do to “make their spouse cheat.” It’s an old theory that is both completely wrong and needs to be thrown away for good.

    You are very brave and courageous to share what you have been through. These situations are messy and you found the right place. I have graduate credentials in psychology, but try to keep the blog “real.”

    Please let us know how we can help you navigate this terrible situation. It’s a very supportive group here and hopefully you can find some solace. Everyone has their own, unique horror story and rest assured I love everyone no matter how big or small the story. But most of all, helping people navigate these issues is my life calling.

    Finally, I am sorry your H is treating you like a frenemy. You deserve much better than platonic hugs and separate beds. You deserve validation especially since you are going through such a tough time. You did not cause this and yet you took the highest road. I am just sorry that your husband and the OW won’t let go already. In a perfect scenario, you and your H would get full custody and OW could find someone else (single) and hopefully not have more children. I am not getting the idea that OW makes good mom material. All of us are imperfect. But let’s say some people have small flaws that are easily overcome while others are walking train wrecks. All we can hope is that the walking train wrecks of the world don’t encounter us. And yet they always manage to do it anyways.

    I will pray for you, Gina, for whatever it is worth.

    Sarah

  21. Gina June 13, 2018 at 9:50 am #

    thank you Sarah. I stopped going to the therapist, she wasn’t helping. She wasn’t open minded, she was going by tradition. She is divorced and I knew early on that I would never go to her for us as a couple, it would cause too much damage. That’s why I told my H to go with the OW, it was a man bash. Recently my H stopped seeing her also because she told him that he is crazy for wanting to continue a relationship with me and no one does this….funny that was the same thing that came out of the OWs mouth..”she should have been gone by now” Anyway, to give my husband some credit, he is trying to do the right thing. His emotions are still trying to rule his life, they always have. He needs to mature, to sit and feel the pain of everything he lost and to learn from it. We live separately so hopefully he takes advantage of the time alone, as I do. The OW is a train wreck, she is all about drama.
    My H just found out she bought a townhouse. I’m sure it hurt him to see her moving on, but hopefully shows him that he wasn’t that important to her anyway..I say hope cause it could just be a ploy and she will ask him to move in like she has been doing for the last 3.5 years.
    It’s ok that he tells me he loves her, I know it is just a feeling, a fantasy stemmed from his childhood trauma. When I sit and listen to his heart I show him my unconditional love. We have always been best friends and it gives me a chance to rebuild our friendship. Its the only way we can have a future. He listens to me also and if a hug is all he can do, then I accept it gratefully. he is a good man that did a bad thing, he doesn’t like who he became and he wants to change and try to forgive himself for all the pain he has caused.
    Today is my bday, I am 53. I am sad that my relationship is still not what I would like it to be, but I know it is because there are things I still need to do and people, like u, I need to connect with…this is my therapy. Thank you for being here.

    • Sarah P June 15, 2018 at 12:21 am #

      Hello Gina,

      Happy belated 53rd birthday. I sincerely hope you got a break from all of this pain. Please feel free to talk to us here all that you need to. I also have an email if you prefer to speak privately. All emails are free and confidential.

      I am glad that you can see very clearly what is going on with your H in terms of childhood trauma. It does a number on people. It leaves an empty and sometimes un-fillable hole in their hearts and they use life to frantically search for someone to heal their wounds. Men who experienced trauma often use affairs to fill these holes, especially if they had a mean mom or a mom who was indifferent or neglectful.

      Still, I want you to ensure that whatever happens with your H, you need to be taken care of financially. You lost your house and she gets to have a townhome. That really makes me angry. You are by far the bigger person here and have a wisdom most of us do not have or cannot practice– that is you can provide unconditional love in the face of pain. Please do not forget you also need to heal.

      I am really angry that the OW uses this dear child as a pawn. She has given birth to someone who she will manipulate and use as a tool of manipulation. You wanted to take the high road because this child and she took that away.

      I hope your husband becomes clued in. I wish he would pursue custody and raise the child with you. The woman in this scenario is too selfish to be a good parent. One more child is born into dysfunction and will be at the whims of someone who will cause that child to have a hole in their heart when they grow up. On and on the cycle goes, when it stops, nobody knows. I wish “nobody” would tell us when these sick cycles will stop, by the way.

      Anyways, we are here for you. I don’t know how big you are on prayer, but sometimes it is helpful to petition a higher power to step in and give guidance and help hearts chance. What I know of “God” is that God does not want people to sin or to suffer, especially not this little child.

      We are here to listen and help.
      Blessings,
      Sarah

      • Gina June 15, 2018 at 8:13 am #

        Thank You Sarah,
        I answer publicly in case there are others who I can help..it helps me heal.
        God and prayer has gotten me though the worse times. I believe I am doing what he wants me to do, HIS will be done.
        My H was abused by his father both physically and emotionally. He was also molested by a priest and I believe shamed for it. So yes I knew that he was very broken, I was also because of my abuse, I thought he was healed but I guess he just shoved it down and it exploded. My thought is that you would never abandon a child who does something stupid because of trauma or immaturity, so why leave your H. Yeah I know, they are adults and should know better, but that is an expectation. An expectation I had without knowing the whole story of his trauma, now it all makes sense.
        His Mom is all he had and his siblings went their own way…then Mom moved home to Thailand, I believe this hurt him. She never calls and took the news of the baby hard. She was angry with him and would avoid the subject. She loved my kids and would call them her own, I’m sure her avoidance hurt him. His Dad has found God and turned around, trying to be the best that he can be. Sometimes my H finds things that he does like his Dad does, not sure if its ok with him or if it scares him.
        He financially takes care of me. His check still goes into my account and I transfer funds. He pays my car payment so we are left with equally the same amount….YES it pisses her off. When she found out we were living in the same complex she flipped out. When her son talks about me she gets mad. Sorry honey, but I’m not going anywhere…
        She doesn’t trust him and she gives him shit about things he does unless it goes along with what she wants. She continues to make him feel bad about himself. I wish I knew someone that he could talk to, someone that he could relate with and open his eyes to the fact that what he feels is not real love, its limerence, a fantasy, a guilt trip, a void filling mistake that didn’t work cause the void is still there. Fillable only by God and healing of the past.
        The card he gave me for my birthday was heartfelt and loving….he loves me, he just doesn’t trust his feelings cause they lie to him. He is stuck, trying to move forward only to get smacked back down by her drama.
        Know of anyone?

        • Tired June 15, 2018 at 9:40 am #

          She doesn’t trust him? I wonder why. You would think getting involved with a married man who is lying to his wife would be a big red flag. But no. I mean, how dumb are some people. No wonder these relationships almost always fail. Even if they get the man they would be always suspicious of him. And the man would think the same of the woman. My husband only a couple of weeks after this ‘affair’ started was asking to come back home. And the first thing he said was that she couldn’t be trusted. I still wonder what it was that made him come to this conclusion, but that is what he said. But then I guess there are some women who just don’t care because they are so low that they would conceive a child as some sort of insurance policy, as Sarah mentioned. Well I’ve never had to do that Gina, and either have you. And that is probably why our husbands are still with us.

          As for using the child as a pawn…well that is about as low as anyone could go. These women are scum. They will also raise scum. I agree that the child is better off with you. That’s the only hope for this child. His father knows it and that is why he is with you.

          • Gina June 16, 2018 at 9:50 am #

            thank you for giving me a place to say what I really feel….she is scum. The only reason I wish her happiness is for the sake of her child and me!! I will always feel that she will be after my H unless she is happy with someone else. Please someone take her away!!
            I will keep praying for my H heart to turn towards me, to look to God for answers, and heal from all his trauma..He is a good man.

        • Sarah P June 15, 2018 at 8:00 pm #

          Hi Gina,

          Thank you for sharing your story publicly. I admire you for doing so and using it to help others. No one should have to feel shame about what they are going through, but I always offer email as an alternative.

          It is easy to see that your husband never got healed of the trauma he experienced. When people have been traumatized and have not healed, they act out. You are right that he is experiencing limerence and fantasy. You are also right that he has a hole that is only fillable by God.

          Unfortunately, people have to often hit their own ‘rock bottoms’ before they are willing to seek God and/or a therapist. All you can do is keep praying and asking God to personally intervene in this situation. God may be intervening now, but when we are in the moment, we cannot see what will happen in the end. Sometimes when things look their worst, God is still working in the background and it takes time for ‘His will to be done.” It is a process. But you are extremely wise and see the situation for what it is.

          What I can encourage you to do is to ask God to show you your husband through God’s eyes– to see him how God sees him– and to see him how God sees him each day. Gina, I am so glad that you are using prayer to get through this situation. I will say quite honestly that I cannot get through life’s trials without turning to the all-loving and unconditionally loving God. I am all too human and I personally need both prayer and an understanding of psychology to work through life’s trials. (But, I do admire people who can get through life without prayer.) Here is a Brandon Heath song:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5AkNqLuVgY

          • Gina June 16, 2018 at 9:51 am #

            thank you

  22. TheFirstWife June 16, 2018 at 12:12 pm #

    Gina. Sometimes they hit rock bottom and still continue to make poor choices.

    It is hard to watch someone you love make the wrong choice and continue to live with it.

    It is hard to watch someone you love throw their life away.

    But in the end you can only be who you are – and you are a person with kindness and compassion. Your H is missing out.

    He’s just too blinded to see it.

    • Sarah P June 18, 2018 at 6:31 pm #

      Hello TFW,

      Don’t know if you saw Gina’s question about post-nups. But it would be awesome if you could tell Gina the in’s and out’s of a post-nup agreement. You are the only person I have met (online or otherwise) who successfully put a post-nup together. I believe it is the smartest thing a betrayed spouse can do, but I have no idea how to set them up. (I am also aware it changes from state to state.) TFW, if you could tell Gina (and the rest of us) where to begin. If you have the time to do so, that would be awesome.

      Thank you so much,

      Sarah

  23. Gina June 17, 2018 at 10:39 am #

    I know, its so hard. Just like watching your kids make bad choices and all you can do is love them and be there when they fall. This is what I believe unconditional love to be, paired with trying not to be a doormat. BOUNDRIES and loving yourself first is the thing to do.

    • Tired June 17, 2018 at 12:26 pm #

      I am sorry Gina if I sounded harsh. But I am only worried about you. But I still think you should think about what I said. This is your life, Gina. Don’t let anyone other than yourself make those big decisions.

      I thought you had advice already about getting a post nuptial agreement. I cant find it. I think you should do this now before anything worse happens. And I also think I should take my own advice!

      • Gina June 18, 2018 at 5:53 am #

        what is a post nup? if I was worried about him not taking care of me I would file for separation….his paycheck still goes into my acct, I don’t have a problem.​

  24. Sarah P June 18, 2018 at 8:52 pm #

    Note to all the betrayed women reading here….

    I don’t care how old you are in biological years. You can always be gorgeous and even look 20 years YOUNGER with the right make-up. Here is an empowering video by Kandee Johnson. She takes 20 years off her mother’s face.

    Betrayed women, do not ever allow someone to make you feel less than in terms of your appearance. Even if you have natural beauty, you can use make-up techniques to enhance your beauty and be reminded of it.

    I am an advocate for betrayed wives and helping them look and feel beautiful. This is NOT shallow. This is a way to contradict the ‘self talk’ that betrayed wives struggle with on a daily basis. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people whisper comments judging the appearance of betrayed spouses. People should not judge a book by its cover– but they do. Many betrayed wives take these comments to heart. (Not all, but some, and these views further erode a woman’s self-esteem.)

    Because they are judged, I do believe the right kind of make-up can do wonders for a betrayed spouse. She can be affirmed that she is beautiful– she is enough– and the other woman is not better. Her advantage is that she is new AND she presents the very best of herself in a way that is tightly controlled.

    Here is a quick video for betrayed wives about taking 20 years off your face. Love it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjAnrgxipis

    • Tired June 20, 2018 at 8:18 am #

      Yes, I agree, 20 years. I wish the video was a bit slower so I could see how to do it myself! I shall search the annals of youtube for more!

  25. Thefirstwife June 19, 2018 at 6:41 am #

    Gia. A post nup is like a pre-nup but it is signed after the M.

    I have one after my H’s A.

    It is basically an agreement that spells out assets and division of property in case of a split.

    Example: if there is a divorce the wife and children can remain in the house until last child is 21. Or if there is a D the H gives up all rights to the wife’s IRA or retirement accounts.

    In mine, my H has no claim on any of my assets. Everything on my name alone is excluded as marital assets.

    I had him sign a post nup as a condition of R. I had to protect myself and children b/c he wanted a D during his A. And he said it numerous times.

    • Gina June 20, 2018 at 6:53 am #

      thank u for the info…are you reconciling?

  26. Amy July 3, 2018 at 6:52 am #

    Hi Sarah and all,
    I have been reading your articles and comments – all these are very interesting and encouraging especially for the betrayed spouse (including me). I found out my husband had an affair with his Russian colleague at the end of Nov and for few weeks I didn’t know what to do and since I lost 5 kg of my weight within two months. This happened after he came back from a conference in Russia and since was constantly on his what-Sapp so, I thought he had an affair with a Russian woman whom he met in Russia (which he bluntly admitted and lied about). However, as a wife I had a strong feeling that it was not this Russian woman in Russia that he is having an affair with, in fact it is the Russian woman whom he worked with. Well, I don’t think it matters, what matters is, my husband is having an affair and lied to me. Since his affair, he started to put a password on his phone, change his email passwords etc. Their ‘love’ affair was so intense that he didn’t even sleep until about 3 to 4am every night because he was so carried away chatting on his whatsapp with the AP. The AP is a single mom with her 5 year old daughter. Of course, like other cheaters, my husband has also told her about our unhappy marriage (although we have been married for 17 years) to create sympathy.
    After about a month of doing research and reading articles (including from this lovely website), I slightly gained my strength and was able to control myself and confront him in the best way I could. I did not beg him to break the relationship with his affair (which I did at the beginning) – instead I told him off to stay with her, since he has promised that he would move in to her apartment in next Sept. He even helped her with house-moving, purchased expensive bed and mattress, painted their ‘future’ room etc in the new house. I have even suggested to have a temporary separation with him so that he knows what he wants to do but he refused. I also told him that with or without him, I will survive with my two sons. I have now received an offer to work in Saudi Arabia and I told him that I am planning to go in September/ or latest early next year.
    Out of sudden, he just changed his mind – from the plan to move in with the OW in September, to now he wants to come with me or find another job within the same area. He also suggested us both to move anyway in other country, ie. Asian countries (not UK where we both are based now). His reason was that, he realised that he has made a mess and that he doesn’t want to break this family and he loves us very much although he does ‘love’ that OW as well. (it seems now that he ‘loves’ that OW a little less – in contrast to what he used to say ‘he loved me but very little and he loved that OW very very much that he was not willing to let her go – this was back in November when he personally told me! He said that he considers that OW as his friend and has told her about his intention of moving away from the UK, although he did not specify that he wanted to return to us. Well – this is kind of good news.
    However, the dark side is still happening although he does it openly and I am aware about it too. He has requested me to be patient until September (or until we move away from the UK which is expected to be in September or January next year). For the time being, he has to still stay at that OW’s property for two nights (he has been doing this since his affair started), because he needs a place for his work – which I think is not a good excuse, although the distance from our home to his work is about two hours’ drive. For the sake of the kids, I agreed to let him but I have emphasised that this cannot be like this forever and if he cannot decide, then I will make my own decision. From what I saw, he has not gut to leave the OW, probably because of his position (senior level) and that OW is a junior colleague. He kept on saying how much he loves this family and me, but it is very hard to trust his word now, especially when he is still not being transparent (lock his phone etc) and gave reasons for continuing to go to this OW’s place although his job does not really requires him to be in the office all the time. I continue to feel that he is fooling me around.
    To be honest, I know I have don’t quite well, but at some point I really feel that I want to leave him and just move on. I wanted him to openly say that he has decided to leave me and stay with that OW, but his response was “please don’t force me to make a decision that will make me (or us) feel regret”. Perhaps it is a high time for me to give him an ultimatum.
    If you can shed some lights to help me with this ‘never seem to end’ drama please—I really appreciate it.

    Thanks
    Amy

    • Gina July 4, 2018 at 7:27 am #

      Amy,
      First off, I am so sorry this is happening to you. There is a thing called limerance, it is like an addiction to another…find info on you tube under marriage helper. My H also Loved his AP, she even had his child….so its up to you. Make a decision whether you want to stay married or not an stick with it. Ask yourself, is he a bad person doing a bad thing, or a good person doing a bad thing. Affairs have nothing to do with the partner, its all because of a void or a self esteem issue in the cheating spouse. The AP is like a drug he cant get away from. Time for boundries which you can find in marriage helper also.
      I decided to stay and our relationship is stronger, but after 4 years there is a lot of healing to do. If you need anything don’t hesitate to ask.

      • Amy July 4, 2018 at 5:41 pm #

        Hi Gina

        I have read about this from the marriage advisor website and listened to the audio – it was very good and helpful. I do think that my H was on limerent. He seems to have woke up a bit from this limerent. As I said, he has told the OW that he has decided not to pursue with her but just to treat her as a friend (He read a response from the OW in front of me to prove that he has mentioned about his intention to move away and not to move in with her in September. The OW now seems to be reluctant to let him go – I think this is where he is getting stuck. He has no gut to completely cut the relationship off because of the risk that his reputation may be damage (something which he shoulld have thought all the way long before he put his dick inside her!!).

        I have sent him an altimatum, ie. after we come back from our holiday in the September, I will leave him if he continues staying there for two nights. No reason whatso ever to stay at the OW’s house, he could have stayed in a budget hotel (like he used to) if he needs to.

        • Gina July 5, 2018 at 8:12 am #

          good job on the boundries. they will vacillate back and forth. having them together will make the limerance die faster. Its his character he should worry about, reputation is what others think of you and who cares.
          You are a strong woman. If you want your marriage then stand strong, I will help you as much as I can.
          You are correct and cannot force him to leave her, you can only be patient. Invest in yourself and look for a good coach, you will both need one.

          • Amy July 6, 2018 at 8:38 am #

            Hi GIna,

            For the sake of the kids, I do want my marriage but it really hurts me to know that he is still seeing that OW although he seems regret with his actions.

            I didnt really ready all your posts, but are you still with your H or have you divorced him? What did you do to make you marriage work.
            My H asked me to work on this marriage, he wants my patience, emotional connection and touch etc which I did. The thing is that, I started to become very rebellious or agressive (after the affair started) when one small thing happens. Then we have to go back to where we started. Trust is the main problem that takes role in this relationship.

            I feel that I have been patient enough since Nov last year, despite how hurt I was when he confessed about his affair.

            Thanks Gina.

            • Gina July 9, 2018 at 9:22 am #

              I am still with my husband. I have gone though a lot of what you have been though.
              I joined this blog because I wanted to support women who wanted to stay with their husbands with a child involved. Patience is key and what is doing is just a matter of perception. He is doing nothing to you, he is destroying his life, the life you happen to share with him. This process is long, been at least 4 years for me. We are friends again and his”love” for her is now hate and the guilt/shame overwhelm him at times. 2 weeks ago I slept for my H for the first time in 4 years, he hasn’t been with her in 2 years. The whole process is a marathon. Sounds like you want your H in your life, then just work on you and leave that love open and strong. This is his journey and your strength will bring him back. I would warn him about STDs and possible pregnancy, which is what this AP did to try and get him to leave me. He sees her manipulation and control now, but we lost so much. I am there when he needs me, but otherwise I just live my own life.
              google “I am the Wife” it will encourage you. I also follow Kyle Cease a transformational coach.
              To everyone else, we all have our own journey and process. I am here because I love my H not to control him. Just because you are with your H and he doesn’t complain doesn’t mean he is happy. Just because he is sleeping with someone else doesn’t mean he is happy….One thing I have learned is to not listen to what they are saying, actions speak louder than words.

              • Amy August 3, 2018 at 3:05 am #

                Dear Gina,
                Thank you – you seem to have persevered so much , 4 years is not a short timeframe. And I do not know whether I have the patience to that long. Till before we went for summer holiday back to his country, he was still sleeping with the OW. And even now, I suspect he still texts her – although he kept on saying that he treats her as his friend now, (typical excuse to justify him continue contacting her). Honestly, I dont understand why he has no balls to tell her frankly that he want to end their dirty affair – which makes me assume that he really loves her. I agree with you, action speaks louder. That is why I still have doubt about his words to me (and even his brother back home – he told his brother that he wanted to get rid of this OW that was why he was applying for a job somewhere else). To me, he is not solving his problem, in fact he is running away from his problem. I told him that he has no balls to tell that OW that he wants to end their affair.
                Your word of encouragement helps me to be strong but I do not know how long can I hold on to this – thank you.

    • Sarah P. July 5, 2018 at 11:06 pm #

      Hello Amy,

      I apologize for not answering sooner and I am grateful that Gina, Rose, and TheFirstWife have been giving you such great advice.

      Your situation is difficult and I have been thinking it over. One of the things in your situation that my response depends upon is any cultural elements involved. Unfortunately, I am very familiar with “the dark side” of Russian culture/Russian women who get involved with married men and it’s not positive. I would like to know if you and your H are from a Western culture or not and if you are religious or not. These details of culture and religion will affect my advice.

      I have lived in and spent time in 23 different countries and I am bi-lingual. (Russia is one of the countries I have spent time in).

      It sounds like you and your H are used to working in other parts of the world.

      I am aware of jobs in Saudi Arabia and they pay very well, but I wonder how you would be treated as a single mom as sons and where you would work– that is would you work on a US military base (which is very protected) or would you work within the Saudi culture.

      Your cultural background will also impact how Saudis view you and your situation and how you will be treated. This is why more information will be great. My dad’s American friends taught English in Saudi Arabia but were able to live in one of the American compounds. Outside of the compound, life was brutal because the wife in this couple was actually from Iceland but raised in the US. I have never met someone who made it to adulthood with naturally (almost white platinum hair) paper-white skin, and enormous blue eyes. Burkas could not hide who she was and they experienced many problems.

      In your situation, I really need to know what culture you are from and your husband is from
      and have an idea how you might be viewed if you took a job as a single mom in Saudi Arabia.

      Of course, the standard affair advice applies. Get an STD check. That is a MUST.

      If I were you, I would hire and attorney and a detective. You need to know what your H is telling the Russian woman and if there are more women he is seeing and also if there are men men SHE is seeing.

      Also, sometimes men have been known to have their mistresses clandestinely follow them to their new location with their wife (as they allegedly work out their marriage.) You need to know what they are saying to each other. And you need an attorney.

      And moving to Asia? Depending on what culture you are (again) you would fare better staying in the UK in terms of YOUR rights.

      Sarah

      Sarah

      • Amy July 6, 2018 at 8:07 am #

        Hi Sarah,

        Thank you very much for your advice. Well, we both are Asian origin (I am from Asian country and my H is from a small country near South Africa, but he is of an Asian origin). My husband is a professor in one established university in UK and I am a senior lecturer in the UK as well. (Unfortunately his professor level has yet to make him mature enough to understand how ‘good’ Russian women are). We both have UK citizenship. And the OW is his mentee (junior lecturer in the same university where he works). I am religious, my husband was, but since he met this OW he started to claim that he is liberal. To be specific, we both are Muslim, hence the reason why I intend to move to Saudi. In addition, my brother has been working in Jeddah for many years now. I was invited by my friend to apply for a higher position in the university where she works – and I have been offered (now waiting for the formal offer letter), with good package including compound accommodation, allowance for international school, flight tickets, medical and insurance. I do understand the culture of Saudi people. I am well aware that they are generally hot tempered – we just need to know how to deal with them. I have met some friends from Saudi including the one who invited me to work in her university.

        Regarding the Russian woman, unfortunately I have to agree with you, they have a record of having too many dark side. In fact, at the beginning of their affair (which was at the end of Nov – Dec), my H told me that although he did not intend to divorce me religiously (according to Islamic law), but we may have to annul our civil marriage certificate in order for him to marry her, to enable her gain her and her daughter’s British passport. Because of the intense feeling (probably lust as well) he had towards that OW, he was willing to sacrifice our 17 years of marriage. Apparently that OW was divorced from her Swedish husband a year or two ago. Ironically, my H called her ex-H a bastard for leaving their 5 year old daughter. I thought, what about you – you are leaving your two sons to take care of other’s daughter, it doesn’t make any sense at all. I was so furious and of course devastated, but I kept quiet. The next morning, I said to him, “ok, I am ready whenever you are ready to annul our certificate”. I think he was a bit shock, and smiled at me and said: “well, it is not going to be too soon, it may be after a year” … huh…

        During that time, he also said to me, “I love you less and less, and I really love that OW very much that I can’t afford her to fall into other man”. I think only us, the betrayed wife can feel how hurt it is when our own H said this to us. At home, he was not like he is, constantly on his phone and would stay very late at night to enable him chatting with the OW, whilst me at the same time trying to figure out the problem and I managed to do some research. I then concluded that my H is on his mid-life crisis and he is on his limerence.

        I think this OW is very aggressive and manipulative (well I don’t know if their education and family background may affect their personality – both dad and mum are doctors). From my silly H’s perspective, of course he sees her very sweet and that she loves him very much and that she really wants him to move in with her in Sept. I would say the most horrible time was starting from end of November until April when I could see he started to calm down although the affair is still on until now.

        OK – I don’t really know what made him change him mind and wanted to come back to the family when back last year, he made a plan to leave us and was very certain that he would move in. In fact, in February, he helped her with her house move, bought an expensive bed and mattress (for them according to him), expensive microwave which unfortunately went off (burnt) after two months of use – I guess this is part of karma  and other things including furniture for the daughter. He also painted their room etc (found out all these from his bank statement). So basically the moving plan seemed serious.

        Last night, I was almost tempted to suggest that we divorce after we come back from our holiday, ie. in September. I don’t know if this is not a good decision, so I did not tell him.

        Now, as I said in my previous posts, although he admitted that he made a mess and he wanted his family back, I find it difficult to believe because of the fact that he is still staying with her for two nights. I have given him an ultimatum until September to decide. I gave three options which he needs to decide, otherwise I will leave him (1) leave the OW completely and back to the family; (2) leave the family and he can stay with the OW; (3) leave all of us and stay on his own. He said he loves that OW but less now, and he really loves me and the family, that is the reason why he has chosen not to move in with her, and why he wants us to move away from the UK. To me, he has no gut to tell that OW that he wants his family back although he will have to work at the present institution. Now that many colleagues have noticed about their affair, and they both are on panic mode.
        Sadly, I was told by my son who just finished his GSCE last month. He accidently saw a nude picture of the OW on his dad’s phone – what a shame. And my son was disgusted and he just didn’t want to think about it because he was having his exam at that point of time.
        Nowadays, my H always said he loves me and asked me if I also love him – I find it difficult to answer to this question. Yes, I do love him, but I hate his action and what he has done to me and the kids. He said he really wants an emotional connection between us like before and he really wants us to make this marriage work again. He tried hard to have an intimate relationship with me but most of the time he failed – I know this sounds personal, but if you can shed some light why this has happened(I don’t know why, probably because of the guilt, or because he is now getting used to the way that OW treated him…) The problem is that, I just cannot accept the fact that he is still seeing the OW whom I think is trying to pursue him, knowing that he has declined to stay in with her.

        If you may give me some advice or information – you have mentioned that you did work in Russia and know a lot about these Russian women, can you tell from your perspective about them.
        Thank you Sarah.

        Yes, I totally agree with you, I have read many negative things about Russioan women

      • Amy July 6, 2018 at 8:13 am #

        Hi Sarah,
        Thank you very much for your advice. Well, we both are Asian origin (I am from Asian country and my H is from a small country near South Africa, but he is of an Asian origin). My husband is a professor in one established university in UK and I am a senior lecturer in the UK as well. (Unfortunately his professor level has yet to make him mature enough to understand how ‘good’ Russian women are). We both have UK citizenship. And the OW is his mentee (junior lecturer in the same university where he works). I am religious, my husband was, but since he met this OW he started to claim that he is liberal. To be specific, we both are Muslim, hence the reason why I intend to move to Saudi. In addition, my brother has been working in Jeddah for many years now. I was invited by my friend to apply for a higher position in the university where she works – and I have been offered (now waiting for the formal offer letter), with good package including compound accommodation, allowance for international school, flight tickets, medical and insurance. I do understand the culture of Saudi people. I am well aware that they are generally hot tempered – we just need to know how to deal with them. I have met some friends from Saudi including the one who invited me to work in her university.
        Regarding the Russian woman, unfortunately I have to agree with you, they have a record of having too many dark side. In fact, at the beginning of their affair (which was at the end of Nov – Dec), my H told me that although he did not intend to divorce me religiously (according to Islamic law), but we may have to annul our civil marriage certificate in order for him to marry her, to enable her gain her and her daughter’s British passport. Because of the intense feeling (probably lust as well) he had towards that OW, he was willing to sacrifice our 17 years of marriage. Apparently that OW was divorced from her Swedish husband a year or two ago. Ironically, my H called her ex-H a bastard for leaving their 5 year old daughter. I thought, what about you – you are leaving your two sons to take care of other’s daughter, it doesn’t make any sense at all. I was so furious and of course devastated, but I kept quiet. The next morning, I said to him, “ok, I am ready whenever you are ready to annul our certificate”. I think he was a bit shock, and smiled at me and said: “well, it is not going to be too soon, it may be after a year” … huh…
        During that time, he also said to me, “I love you less and less, and I really love that OW very much that I can’t afford her to fall into other man”. I think only us, the betrayed wife can feel how hurt it is when our own H said this to us. At home, he was not like he is, constantly on his phone and would stay very late at night to enable him chatting with the OW, whilst me at the same time trying to figure out the problem and I managed to do some research. I then concluded that my H is on his mid-life crisis and he is on his limerence.
        I think this OW is very aggressive and manipulative (well I don’t know if their education and family background may affect their personality – both dad and mum are doctors). From my silly H’s perspective, of course he sees her very sweet and that she loves him very much and that she really wants him to move in with her in Sept. I would say the most horrible time was starting from end of November until April when I could see he started to calm down although the affair is still on until now.
        OK – I don’t really know what made him change him mind and wanted to come back to the family when back last year, he made a plan to leave us and was very certain that he would move in. In fact, in February, he helped her with her house move, bought an expensive bed and mattress (for them according to him), expensive microwave which unfortunately went off (burnt) after two months of use – I guess this is part of karma  and other things including furniture for the daughter. He also painted their room etc (found out all these from his bank statement). So basically the moving plan seemed serious.
        Last night, I was almost tempted to suggest that we divorce after we come back from our holiday, ie. in September. I don’t know if this is not a good decision, so I did not tell him.
        Now, as I said in my previous posts, although he admitted that he made a mess and he wanted his family back, I find it difficult to believe because of the fact that he is still staying with her for two nights. I have given him an ultimatum until September to decide. I gave three options which he needs to decide, otherwise I will leave him (1) leave the OW completely and back to the family; (2) leave the family and he can stay with the OW; (3) leave all of us and stay on his own. He said he loves that OW but less now, and he really loves me and the family, that is the reason why he has chosen not to move in with her, and why he wants us to move away from the UK. To me, he has no gut to tell that OW that he wants his family back although he will have to work at the present institution. Now that many colleagues have noticed about their affair, and they both are on panic mode.
        Sadly, I was told by my son who just finished his GSCE last month. He accidently saw a nude picture of the OW on his dad’s phone – what a shame. And my son was disgusted and he just didn’t want to think about it because he was having his exam at that point of time.
        Nowadays, my H always said he loves me and asked me if I also love him – I find it difficult to answer to this question. Yes, I do love him, but I hate his action and what he has done to me and the kids. He said he really wants an emotional connection between us like before and he really wants us to make this marriage work again. He tried hard to have an intimate relationship with me but most of the time he failed – I know this sounds personal, but if you can shed some light why this has happened(I don’t know why, probably because of the guilt, or because he is now getting used to the way that OW treated him…) The problem is that, I just cannot accept the fact that he is still seeing the OW whom I think is trying to pursue him, knowing that he has declined to stay in with her.
        If you may give me some advice or information – you have mentioned that you did work in Russia and know a lot about these Russian women, can you tell from your perspective about them.
        Thank you Sarah.

  27. Rose July 3, 2018 at 10:54 am #

    He is sleeping with OW at least 2 nights a week? He’s made his choice. Dump his stuff on the grass. Don’t do the “pick me” dance.

  28. TheFirstWife July 3, 2018 at 9:17 pm #

    Amy. I am so sorry for you. I really am. You deserve better and you ate in no way responsible for his decision to cheat.

    You have done so much right. You have made some excellent decisions to get away from his infidelity.

    Now down to the A and your M. My H did the same thing. He thought he could “test drive the OW” and was going to tell me a few months down the road what he was going to do.

    Hell no! He had to make a decision – her or me!!

    I was not going to do the pick me dance. I deserve better. As do you.

    I can see from what you have posted he is on the fence. For whatever reason he stays at her home. Hell No!! He is still cheating and disrespecting you.

    Plain & simple – you are being lied to and disrespected.

    You indicated your desire to move and take another job. It’s in another country. I’m not saying take it or don’t take it. But you need a plan B in case your M doesn’t last.

    And moving to a new job is a good solution. You are not obligated to take him with you. You know it – he knows it too.

    He offers up all kinds of scenarios – he will go with you or you will all go somewhere else. He is trying to control the situation and keep his A and M.

    Do not let that happen. Do not listen to anything he says unless and until he is no longer seeing the OW in any way shape or form. No excuses from him – it is either 100% no contact – or nothing!! He cannot have both of you.

    Follow his actions and not his words. His actions will show you exactly how committed he is to you. His words are worthless – he is still cheating.

    He is showing you his selfishness. He is showing you his lack of commitment to your M. He is showing you that he truly believes you are going to wait around for him. You need to see a commitment from him to the M. Not for one day. Or one month. But a consistent demonstration of actions that he is committed to helping you heal, repairing the damage he has caused to your N and his 100% commitment to fidelity.

    He is gambling with his M and family.

    He is stupid!

    • Amy July 4, 2018 at 5:52 pm #

      Hi TheFirstWife,

      Thanks for your comments which i fully agreed. can you tell me what did you do and whether your H came back to you eventually?
      As for my case, when I backed off from him, he realised that and started to show some positive sign. Nowadays, he even is being jealous and does not like it when I meet some other male colleagues or collaborators. But who cares. I wanted to show him that I am still attractive and I can do what he does, well not that I actually did it.

  29. TheFirstWife July 3, 2018 at 10:43 pm #

    Amy. He is asking YOU to not ask HIM to make a decision that would make HIM feel bad – meaning he doesn’t want to give up anything or do anything where he cannot get his own way.

    Seriously he should have just said “I don’t stop seeing the OW”. Because that is in essence what he told you.

    Read up on the 180 U Turn. Google it.

    It will give you tips on how to move away from his infidelity. It is not designed to stop the A – but it can have that affect.

    At DDay2 I had enough and told my H I was D him (he had said he wanted a D for 6 months) and I decided to no longer live in limbo. He was still cheating with the OW.

    I no longer do his laundry and have not for 5 years. I don’t do his errands. I decided if we R I was not being the maid etc. I changed the dynamics in our M.

    I did it for me. I have less chores b/c I believe he was not appreciative so I stopped doing. He does it all on his own now.

  30. Amy July 4, 2018 at 4:55 pm #

    Hi Rose, FirstWife and Gina,

    Thank you for your useful comments. For some reason, I cant see your comments (even my posting in here) , hence I am responding here.

    It very hard and brain-straining – He was a good and responsible man and puts dedication to his family until one day I just found out he was constantly on text messages. He told me he was feeling depressed and out of sudden this OW came in his life through lots of meeting at work, conversation etc. Well, of course he said everything was superb about the OW and I was ‘an evil’ who was trying to stop his affair. It was really out of sudden when he complained that he has not been happy to me, some of the things he made up by saying that I have always argued with him, – no basis at all!.

    Nowadays, the tone seems to change a lot – but the fact that he still stays at that OW’s house for work reason is not logical at all.

  31. Rose July 4, 2018 at 5:54 pm #

    Amy…it was hard for me to face the truth about what went on with my H and I think you are having the same issue. He is NOT staying there for work. He is having sex with this OW twice a week. And you are allowing him to do this for the next 2 months at least? Also are you familiar with the expression “having your cake and eating it too”? Your H is a cake eater. He thinks he can have her AND you with no consequences.

    • Amy July 5, 2018 at 4:07 am #

      Hi Rose, indeed it is true he is trying to be on the safe side. By the way two few weeks we are going to his country to meet his family, so this OW will be on her own no sex (from him lol). That is why I was willing to give him until September, that is when we come back from the holiday. If in September things do not change, then I will leave him. (this was my decision and I clearly said to him). I have made up my mind to move abroad for work as well, unfortunately I cannot move in September due to the work notice requirment, so the earliest I may move job in in December/January. How I wished that I can just go in September.

      Yes, I heard about the expression “having you cake and eating it too” – this is what he is doing. He openly admitted that he love that OW but at the same time he loves his family, but he is stuck in the middle. He needs to clear his mess, but by looking at it, he isnt doing anything by keep doing the same thing every week.

  32. TheFirstWife July 5, 2018 at 6:35 am #

    Amy. My H ended his A on DDay2. But it was a really terrible day b/c he walked in the door that day and out of the blue decided he wanted a D. Now three days earlier we saw our Marriage Counselor and he said that he was committed to the M and was very happy.

    Now at this point I thought we had reconciled and the A had been over for 5-6 months. The truth was the A was still going on.

    Later that evening – after seeing the MC on DDay2 and my H is adamant he wants a D, I finally had enough. He then says “oh sorry I changed my mind I really do not want a D”. Please take me back.

    He had done this same exact thing the week before. Wants a D and then changes his mind. And I willingly took him back.

    But now in DDay2 I’m not playing this game. He spent a whole day insisting he wants out. Out of the blue.

    So I find the OW’s phone number and call her. I don’t know why but I thought she might have an answer for me. We spoke for 3 minutes (no yelling or cursing but calm and rational). She told me the A had been on- going the last 6 months.

    I finally snapped. I was furious he played me and that I was doing everything to R but the A was still going on.

    So I confronted him and he admitted the A had been in-going but he had ended it a few hours ago. He decided he wanted the M. Not the A.

    Two days later I told him I was D him and he had to leave. He said he would not leave. So I called a friend to make arrangements for him to go there and stay until he found another place to live.

    Now in between all of this we had a very unexpected death in the family. It was horrible and my whole world was imploding. Plus kids and holiday time etc.

    So he had a temporary reprieve on the move out date. He needed to stay b/c emotionally I was having a rough time and he needed to be there for the children’s sake.

    And he used that opportunity to do everything he could to start making amends. I could see by his actions things were very different.

    But in my anger of being played (his A continuing while I thought we were Reconciling) I demanded a post-nup for even considering allowing him to stay.

    I needed to financially protect myself. And I was still furious at him. So I then did the 180!- which continues to this day.

    I no longer do his laundry, errands, ironing, cooking (exceot if for the whole family), banking or any of it. I am no longer his maid service. That is how it has been for 5 years – and it works for me.

    And he does not complain. Ever.

    He now knows he was given a gift to R this last time and he will not make any mistakes. I was a doormat for most of our M b/c I was just flexible and understanding. He worked hard. He deserved time to himself. I never complained about his extensive travel schedule or work hours when he had to work at 2 am due to the different time zones etc.

    I thought we were a team. I did everything I could to make his life easy for 25 years.

    Now it’s different. I took back my power and restored my self esteem and out my happiness first.

    I watched my husband do the pick me dance when I told him I was D him. He did it for years. So now he knows what it feels like except I did not have another guy. I just did not want him after what he did to me.

    Two different As. His last one he wanted a D. Two different DDays. His refusal to be respectful and call when he was going to be late. He waltzed in and out like he was single. He always told me where he was -,work dinner or meetings etc. but he would forget to tell me when his flights landed or meeting ended at 8 pm – he would show up at midnight. Oh yes thecteam decided to go for drinks – I forgot to tell you or forgot to call.

    And my “favorite” was the be home @ 12pm and show up @ 2 am. And no call. Ever. That conversation went on for 15 years until I stopped asking for a call. He would always say “I did not want to wake you”.

    So yes – at DDay2 – I finally snapped. My patience and tolerance was exhausted.

    So yes my threat of D rocked him to his core and he finally realized I was no longer playing. And for two years we faced every issue – including his lack of communication. And it has changed.

    And if it did not we would be D. And he knows it. There is no room for error.

    I outlined the D to him when I told him I was D him him and he was free to be with the OW. I no longer cared. Same way he was when he had one foot out the door.

    He was facing financial challenges paying for two households. I was not leaving until kids finished school. That was at least 6 years.

    He was facing being a part time dad. And my kids would never have contact w/the OW until they were older.

    His relationship w/OW would be limited due to his work schedule and seeing his kids on the weekends.

    His loss of friends – I know quite a few friends would no longer be available due to the wife. The OW was much younger and a millennial – covered in tattoos and lives a different lifestyle. my H now admits his core group of friends would not accept her.

    I now realize that his commitment to our M was not what my commitment was. Sobering thought.

    He is deeply ashamed for all of it. He wishes he could take it back. But the damage is done. We just have to pick up and repair what is broken and do better each day. And we do.

  33. TheFirstWife July 5, 2018 at 6:54 am #

    Amy. Sorry for the long post.

    But here is a summary of a few things I learned:

    No one can stop the A exceot the CS. There is very little the BS can do. Talking or reasoning or being kind or loving – it doesn’t work. Falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

    The CS believes “infatuation” is true love and a connection.

    The CS will do almost anything to keep the A going – including financial devastation, facing STDs and deadly diseases, loss of family etc.

    The A ends only when the CS decides to end it – for whatever reason. Not a minute before.

    The CS will do whatever – and I mean whatever they need to do to keep the A going. Amy like your H staying two nights with the OW. Totally ridiculous and unacceptable behavior.

    My H told me he was going to decide in 2 months what he wanted to do – and let me know. Two days later it was a “her or me” showdown. Completely ridiculous behavior! But at the time it made sense to him. SMH still!

    I wonder how the CS would react if we (the BS) pulled any of this crap on them.

    Every person always needs to have a plan B. That is where I was caught off-guard. I did not have a back up plan. And my H was D me with two weeks notice (no joke). I found out about the A (which in his words was “nothing”) and 10 days later he is D me.

    Every person needs to have their own life. Separate and apart from the M. I had my own social circle of women all along – but I have expanded it. Like Rose taking up kayaking. Excellent choice. Smart move.

    • Tired July 8, 2018 at 12:14 pm #

      Amy. I agree with the others on here. You can’t let your husband keep doing this. He IS cake eating. He has a wife and a girlfriend. How can you allow him to get away with this? It is disrespectful to you and it is also allowing him to sit on the fence. No wife should have to put up with this! It is disgusting behaviour. They can only justify it because you go along with it.

      I see how you mentioned you had gone out with other men, or something, This is the worst possible thing you could do if you want your husband back. I know you are angry, but this will only reinforce his ‘righteousness’ about what he is doing. After all, he will rationalise to himself that you are doing it too. Therefore what he is doing is ok. The fact that he caused that action in you will be lost on him. Men are very naive.

      He will keep doing this as long as you allow him to. Instil some real consequences. That is the only way he will wake up. Get a divorce lawyer. Move out, or get him out. In my experience, the only way they can see out of their stupid fantasy is when it starts to hit them hard in real terms. He will not see that as long as he still has the best of both worlds. Expose him to all your friends, and his.

      They only realise when they see the cold hard consequences of what they are doing. Be aware, when they come back and you haven’t been hard enough, they will still try to carry on the ‘friendship.’ So put it up on the table now, and save the heartache.

  34. Rose July 5, 2018 at 10:20 am #

    Amy…get tested for STDs!!

  35. Sarah P. July 7, 2018 at 2:21 am #

    Hi Amy,
    I had tried to post a long comment earlier but it didn’t post. I will re-create the essential ideas and I apologize for my frankness:

    1) You know the rules yourself about what will happen if you and your husband move to a Muslim country together, especially if he follows you to Saudi Arabia. The laws in Saudi Arabia are still extremely “primitive” from a Western viewpoint. If your husband followed you there and wanted a divorce, he would not be required to go to court. All he would have to do is make it known to everyone that “he divorces you in his heart” and that would dissolve the marriage. You would have no recourse if it happened there. It could be a very nightmarish situation. I found a Saudi blog about this earlier today and the author confirmed this still occurs.

    2) If you are both UK citizens, it could be very tricky if he announces a divorce in Saudi Arabia and then returns to the UK. It would be a legal and a cultural nightmare.

    3) If a Russian woman wants a visa and/or citizenship and has said this herself, she is not going to play fair. She will break all laws of human decency in order to break up your marriage, marry your husband, wait long enough to get citizenship, and then she will divorce him. When that happens he will crawl back to you. But what a nightmare to put your children through.

    Here is my opinion and this is NOT a substitute for professional advice:

    1) Get a female attorney in the UK who is not a Muslim and who knows your rights as a woman with citizenship in the UK. I believe this is necessary.

    2) It might be wise to stay in the UK until this is sorted out. I would not leave the UK but would instead bring your husband to see a non-Muslim marriage therapist in the UK.

    3) Get some kind of post marital contract drawn up in the UK.

    4) Start making friends with women outside the Muslim community.

    Now some are probably wondering why all this talk of making sure people who help are NOT Muslim?

    Well, it’s like this. I have had friends from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, and Algeria. (All very different cultures but they are also all Muslim cultures.) I know what my female friends were up against since typical Western values and the roles of Western women are diametrically opposed to the roles of Muslim women. I saw my Muslim friends trying to bridge two cultures that in many ways cannot be bridged. My personal fear for my female Muslim friends was that they were caught between two worlds and sometimes things did not go well for them.

    I have come to believe that if Muslim women have citizenship in a Western country like the UK and a marriage is in trouble, they need to stay in the UK and learn their legal rights as female citizens of the UK.

    I am not hating on Islam. Islam has many beautiful traditions. However, I am also aware that women in Islamic countries live radically different lives and do not have the protection of the law to ensure they are treated equitably if something goes wrong in their marriage.

    If a Muslim woman has UK citizenship I believe she should go to the secular UK law, secular UK therapists, and socialize with women who can reiterate her rights as a woman and a human being. I have had many Muslim female friends from different Muslim countries. I am a very “moral” Western woman. I do not believe in or agree with the craziness that has become the Western world. Westerners have become extremely immoral, selfish, self-centered, and do not care for family. These are very negative things.

    However, the Western world also has laws that protect women and give them equal rights to men. There are trade offs but at the end of the day, I accept flaws in Western culture because women have equal rights to men in all ways. This is extremely important so that women are not at the mercy of abusive husbands.

    It is my opinion, Amy, that you stay in the UK. Period. I would not take off for Saudi Arabia knowing what could go wrong. If you move to Saudi Arabia, that makes me fear for you because of the ambiguity that would occur in terms of your marriage.

    Russian women do not give up easily when it comes to wanting citizenship in Western Europe, Canada, or the United States. I have spent time in Russia. I would not want to live there either. However, there is no justification for using immoral ways to solve one’s alleged issues. But this is also a cultural thing. Some Americans refer to this type of Russian woman as a “Svetlana.” It’s a common Russian name, but it’s the name some Americans use for this group who is willing to break up marriages for wealth or citizenship. These types are also skilled manipulators. (Not all Russians, just these types.)

    Gosh I am just so judgmental, aren’t I?

    No, I am not judgmental. I have spent time in all kinds of different cultures and have had friends from every corner of the earth. I have listened to story after story.

    Amy, everything you do is up to you and again my opinion does not constitute professional advice. However, I still feel it is my duty to be absolutely honest with you so that you can think about your future. I want to ensure you find yourself in a position where you are empowered to make choices rather than living at the whims of an easy manipulated husband and his so-called mistress who will not give up easily. I want to make sure you and your children are okay.

    Big hugs,
    Sarah

  36. Sarah P. July 7, 2018 at 2:35 am #

    PS-
    I also wanted to say I am NOT anti-Muslim. All religions are welcome here. And if people don’t believe in God, they are welcome to. I do not judge people based on what religion they are and do not believe one way is better than the other. I have my way of worshiping God and hold no judgment in my heart for those who choose their way to worship God or not.

    If I could wave a magic wand, I would love to see Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, agnostics and atheists all here embracing one another.

    It would be my dream if we could one day set up a group of Muslim, Jewish and Christian women who embraced one another as sisters. That group would pave the way for peace in the Middle East. This is not a political or religious blog but I have always had the dream of creating a group of women from these three religions who banned together and paved the way for peace. The men have not been able to do this and what a beautiful thing if us women set aside our religious and political differences and stood together and showed a new way to relate to one another. I am in. Are there any other women out there reading who want to take a pledge of peace and sisterhood between these three religions? ❤️💕🌹❤️
    I raise my hand. Will anyone stand with me?

    Sarah 💕❤️🌹

  37. TheFirstWife July 7, 2018 at 1:26 pm #

    It would be nice if women took an oath of sisterhood and stopped being the OW in a M or relationship.

    Forget the religious aspect – it is for the good of all cultures and countries.

    Women need to stop poaching and being a cancer in another woman’s M.

    • Sarah P. July 7, 2018 at 7:13 pm #

      Hello TheFirstWife,

      I hear you loud and clear and you are 100% right on this (just as you are on so many of these issues discussed on this blog.).

      Thank you for bringing this up as well. This is a topic I have wanted to talk about for SO LONG, but I have been afraid to offend people.

      Ever since I was a little kid, I watched everyone, listened to everything, and asked my parents questions.

      I remember being in second grade and we were out at a BBQ that the radio station my mom worked for was sponsoring. (She was the head of their sales team, not a DJ).

      She brought me and my dad around and introduced us to the station owner and his wife. The station owner was this smarmy, extremely tall, fast-talking man who appeared to be of American (Greek) descent. Many Greek families had settled in this area and I was always begging to go to their house for dinner. LOL. The wife of the station owner was very quiet and looked very ill at ease. I don’t even remember what she looked because she was so ill at ease, that’s all I saw.

      My mom introduced me and my dad to some of the other couples and their wives, and on and on. Then my mom brought me to meet these two women everyone referred to as “the two Debbies” because they were both named Debby/Debbie. Everyone laughed when someone made a joke about the Two Debbies. I found the joke both too obvious and offensive (even as a 2nd grader) to be funny. I did not get it. (Maybe it was because I could tell everyone was implying these two women were inter-changable?) How can a second grader know these things?

      Well, my mom had headed the feminist organization (the one called NOW) for her small, very conservative mountain town she lived in. She and her feminist friends had a march on Main Street and my mom took me in my stroller to the march (I was about 2) and she had me hold a giant NOW sign. At the time it made the front-page of the newspaper because the male reporters were so out-raged that she was single-handedly indoctrinating the next generation of women to know their rights. (How horrible of her!!) My mom has told me this story and I still laugh hysterically thinking about it because my mom did it intentionally to rile up the very conservative and sexist men of that town. (Note: My mom abandoned feminism years ago and is a conservative type who spends all her time at church). LOLZ!

      But, back to the story. My mom was full into her “I am going to conquer the world” career phase when she worked at the radio station and she would come home and tell me all about what idiot was doing what (by idiot I mean infidelity).

      It was sometime around 1979… and so, there we were at the park BBQ with the entire radio station staff (when I was in second grade) and there were no other kids. I resorted to people watching. The most obvious thing I noticed was that each of the Debbies looked similar and had the same hair style. One had gone platinum blond and the other had her natural brunette hair. The two Debbies wore stiletto heels and cocktail dresses to the afternoon park BBQ. (And I was there in what I considered “nice clothing,” which was my white, Izod t-shirt and my favorite khaki shorts and my blue tennis shoes and my very long hair which I had actually brushed that day because if I did not, my mom would get embarrassed.

      Eventually the wife of the station owner was sent off by her H to start ‘greeting’ the other employees. Once this happened, things got interesting. I was sitting there eating my chips and the station owner went over to blond Debbie. They started whispering and his hand was suddenly on the small of her back and then quickly settled square on her rump.

      Say what? (Or what I said at the time was, “Whatcha talkin’ about, Willis?”)

      That got my attention. Because the guy was married and I knew enough about the birds and the bees to know that married men did not rest their hands on the rumps of women other than their wives.

      Then the station owner straightened up and worked the crowd. Then he meandered over like a pervert river to Brunette Debbie. Brunette Debbie looked up at this man pleadingly, with her sad, doe eyes. He looked like he was begging her to do something and she was sniffling and crying and maybe he was begging for her to stop. He kept looking around to see if his wife was looking. Nope. She was not looking. Finally he hugged Brunette Debbie and during the hug the hand went briefly wandering. Then, he went back and worked the crowd.

      I was sitting there thinking most adults are crazy.

      During the ride home, I told my parents about the Debbies and the station owner’s wandering hands. My mom blandly announced that he had been having “affairs” with the two (single) Debbies for about 5 years on and off. I asked what that meant (in real detail) and my parents told me in real detail.

      I told them that was just about the most insane thing I had ever heard.

      And I still believe it.

      I have on a serious level thought about starting a petition on change.org.

      Not poaching the husbands/fiances/boyfriends of others?

      I took that oath a long time ago. I raise my hand and continue to pledge not to take the husbands of other women. (But, the thing is, men is relationships have always been very UN-attractive to me even when I was single.)

      My pledge of not poaching other women’s husbands extends to areas that most people never consider. I have noticed that married women have a game where they subtly try to flirt with the husband of another in order to assert some kind of sick power that they think they have. They tilt their heads, their flip their hair, they giggle, they touch a man’s arm and these are married women doing this to other married women most often in front of the wives themselves.

      I have figured out that these married women think they have some kind of power over a man if they can get him to flirt back in front of his own wife.

      But, really, that is no super power. What they are doing is the equivalent of dangling a kind of meat a lion has never had in front of a lion. The lion is going to check it out because that is what lions do. You get a lion to do what it does even when you are not around? That is not power. That is called PATHETIC.

      I have never played that game and never will. I don’t do that to men and I did not do it when I was single either. I was never a flirt like that even when single. I find it contrived and ridiculous. But, what do I know?

      Who else takes a pledge to STOP poaching husbands and being a cancer in another woman’s marriage?

      I take that pledge!

      Who Is with me?

      Sarah

  38. Sarah P. July 7, 2018 at 7:30 pm #

    PS- That was ambiguous:

    Who pledges to STOP poaching husbands because this act of poaching is equivalent to being a cancer in another woman’s marriage? Who pledges to stop poaching the husbands of other women and to stop poaching no matter what the circumstance?

    I take that pledge.

    I heard a terrible story yesterday. My H has a colleague who works both at (normal hospital) where my H works and also works at “General Hospital” as in the soap opera. There is a different hospital system around here that has a real name but I call it “General Hospital” because a happily married person starts working there and exits as a divorced person who was poached by a coworker.

    So this doctor who works at General Hospital has a wife he cannot leave alone…. she is young, maybe in her late 30’s. The doctor cannot leave her alone because she has some kind of scary degenerative disease and no one knows how long she will live. She needs 24/7 care. Not a good prognosis.

    I very seriously asked my husband if he could ask the guy if I could contact the wife and get a prayer chain going. They have exhausted what medicine can do for her and prayer does not hurt. When I hear of such situations I kick myself if I have not stepped in and at least offered prayer.

    But, that was not my point. I picture this doctor with the ill wife walking into his job at “General Hospital” and all these nurses around him secretly licking their chops, taking notes, and figuring out the exact time they should start making their move to “groom” him so that when his young wife passes away, they will be officially on his arm at the funeral.

    By the way, this particular doctor is NOT like that. He is fully dedicated to his wife. Some doctors are less moral. Not this guy- he sees his wife and his wife alone.

    And of course, that makes him an even better poach for spouse poachers because she will poach someone loyal. I can picture all this in my mind because it is a hospital filled only with Nasty Nurses. All the Nasty Nurses in my area go to work there because everyone knows if you want to break up a marriage, you go and work at “General Hospital.”

    I am heart sick. In fact, I need to actually sign off for the day because I am so heart sick over the latest turn of events with this doctor’s wife– that is she was stable, but took an irreversible turn. I am beside myself with anger and rage because she was supposed to live a long life with her husband. And I know there are probably 30 different nurses marking their calendars and taking notes on when to move in. Watching these real-life horror shows is so bad, I think I need to see my own therapist!! (Quite seriously).

    Sarah

  39. Tired July 8, 2018 at 11:51 am #

    It is a nice thought Sarah. But it won’t work. Women will still try to poach husbands as long as the day is long. It seems inherent in some women’s nature. Equally, i doubt a petition for men would work either, because they are completely clueless. All we can do is hope there is enough love to stop them leaving us.

    • Sarah P. July 8, 2018 at 9:20 pm #

      Hi Tired,

      Here is a long comment….

      I agree that we can hope there is enough love and I have tried to cultivate that in my marriage. But, I have also sadly learned that there is no way to affair-proof a marriage as long as there are spouse poachers. I do my best and hope for the best.

      However, I have been wanting to bring up “the elephant in the room” for quite some time. The elephant in the room = the women who very intentionally poach married men. Married men are half the problem, but often times clueless, as you mentioned.

      So, here is a statement I am going to make and I want to hear what other married women think. Here it is:

      There can be no sisterhood until women decide on a large scale to stop hurting one another.

      And this “hurting” that women do to one another can take many forms even outside of spouse poaching. A woman hurting another woman can be done through:

      -Spouse poaching

      -Intentionally spreading lies about and intentionally sabotaging the work of another female coworker

      -Intentionally setting up other women to fail at work in order to gain a promotion

      -Being part of a group of women where some of the women single out another woman and all the women freeze her out. (The freezing out is not based on something the target/victim did. The freezing out is based on the insecurity, envy or small-mindedness of the other women in the group.)

      -Being petty and small to nice women

      -When one woman wants everything for herself and instead of working hard for it, she sabotages all the women around her or sleeps with the supervisors to get ahead. She refuses to cooperate and be a “team player.” She sees all other women as enemies (even when they are not) because the company only has room for one woman– and that would be her.

      -When other women support the female bully of the group because they are too intimidated to stand up to the bully. So let let an innocent victim suffer.

      -When female victims are blamed for whatever happened to them by the other women in the group.

      I started writing a piece on the subtle blame-shifting that still occurs between women when a married woman has been the victim of the affair. I keep finding age-old assumptions that I have been relying upon and I recently uncovered another age-old assumption that most of us women make and it’s a big one. Even though it was obvious and so huge, it was ingrained as truth in my own thinking, even though it is not the truth at all. I will be writing a post about this age-old assumption that most of us (including me) take for granted and will be piecing part why this assumption is completely incorrect and needs to go.

      I have also discovered that we use these age-old assumptions as a way to set up a false sense of security in our minds. This is not the thing I will be writing a blog about, but it fits into this category. For example, if a woman in middle-age is left for a woman 15 years younger, I have often heard how she is talked about socially when she is not around. A group of women might be sitting around talking about that woman’s divorce (when the woman is not there.) They might say things like:

      -“Well, she didn’t watch her waist line, did she.”

      -“She did not take hormone replacement therapy to keep a healthy libido.”

      -“She did not get the trendy clothing or trendy haircut. No one wants a dowdy wife.”

      -“When she and her H were at parties, she could have tried a little harder to wear trendy clothing and flirt with her husband so that he knew he was desirable.”

      -“She should not have been a stay-at-home mom.”

      OR

      -“She should not have been a career woman.”

      -“She should have gotten a facelift.”

      OR

      -“Her facelift looked terrible.”

      All of these things are a type of victim blaming, but I think women do it in general to feel safe. They talk themselves into why another woman’s husband cheated on her and why they are not that woman and so they are safe. (They are not safe at all).

      But, it subtly reinforces victim-blaming and plays right into the narrative that if a husband wanders, that is the wife’s fault.

      I know this is all off-topic.

      A long time ago I remember my ex making an observation about the women in France. Both of us had been in longterm relationships with French people (and broke up with them) before we met each other. (We were both single and we had both come off of longterm relationships with French people who we had thought about marrying.) I remember him making a statement about his ex French girlfriend. He said: “French women know how to keep their husbands at home. If one woman tries to seduce him, she will take his attention back by being even more seductive.”

      Well, what he was describing was the French version of Chump Lady’s “Pick Me Dance.”
      At the time when he said that, I took a mental note where I realized I had to be ‘the ultimate woman” for him. And I tried and attempted to excel in all areas.

      After he broke it off, I had to see a therapist for the first time in my life. I had avoided therapy and had avoided depression and had avoided trauma up until that point. I gave the female therapist (who had been practicing for 30 years) a very detailed description of what being “the ultimate woman” entailed and she dropped her clipboard. She said, “Seriously? You did that? That is not a joke?” I looked at her and said, “NO, that is not a joke. That was how I was with him in my quest to being the ultimate woman.” The therapist said, “I have never in 30 years heard of a man leaving a woman like you.” And I told her that was one of the fundamental issues– I did everything in my power, including learning to cater to men’s needs in every area, and I still failed.

      The therapist had NO answer because she had always been coaching her female clients to do all those things I had done. She had never heard of these things failing. I assumed they would not either.

      And this is one of the reasons I know that a woman can literally become ‘perfect’ in ways that most men would consider someone perfect. But, that does not guarantee a man will stay at home.

      I was with the most “well fed” and “well loved” lion (Leo on his horoscope) and I went out of my way to ensure he had everything. It did not work. It failed EPICALLY.

      And this is one of the reasons I know that a woman cannot make a man cheat or make him un-cheat. If that were true– if women had that ability– my ex never would have cheated let alone participate in such cruelty.

      It doesn’t matter if a woman is Miss Universe.

      A man is completely responsible for infidelity right along with the other woman.

      However, if a woman has any faults, a cheater will magnify them, blow them out of proportion, and play a mind game to make his wife believe she drove him to cheat.

      Nope. Not possible. It’s an excuse cheaters use to make themselves look like victims. (This applies to female cheaters too…)

      I am still trying to figure out how my ex had the stamina, the time, or the inclination to go with that skank.

      Sarah

  40. Lou July 14, 2018 at 6:31 pm #

    I don’t believe in “spouse poachers”. Happily married men who don’t make themselves available are simply not available. When you are happy and in love you aren’t able to be “poached”.

    I really believe that whoever we marry and when we take those vows we need to mean them and stand by them. My ex had an affair and as much as I knew his AP was attracted to him – I would notice things here or there- I 100% expected him to behave appropriately. When I found out he cheated It devastated me but I don’t want to be with someone who can be “poached”. I want to be with someone who is as happy with me as I am with them. I don’t have eyes for anyone else no matter how hard they try. That’s what I expect in a partner.

    The truth is if you don’t have a partner who is as dedicated to you as you are to them then women who turn on their charms may be an issue, Emotional connections may be an issue, texting or inappropriate behavior at times may be an issue. I for one am not going to work to be perfect in every way just so I can try my best to keep my husband away from someone trying to take him. That’s too exhausting and affairs are zero reflection on the behavior of the betrayed spouse.

    Bottom line is there is no way to prevent an affair (in my opinion). The only way to prevent It is to have a spouse who wants to stay in a marriage through think and thin, who communicates when issues arise, who stands by their word and vows and who is unapproachable. You can put that type of spouse in any situation and It wouldn’t matter.

  41. TheFirstWife July 15, 2018 at 4:39 am #

    Lou. I agree and this is an excellent point.

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