What would upset you more…sexual infidelity or emotional infidelity?

The article below came across our desk earlier in the week and we wanted to get your opinion on this.

Impact of Sexual vs. Emotional Infidelity

In the largest study to date on infidelity, Chapman University has learned men and women are different when it comes to feeling jealous. In a poll of nearly 64,000 Americans this study provides the first large-scale examination of gender and sexual orientation differences in response to potential sexual vs emotional infidelity in U.S. adults.

According to the findings, heterosexual men were more likely than heterosexual women to be most upset by sexual infidelity (54 percent of men vs. 35 percent of women) and less likely than heterosexual women to be most upset by emotional infidelity (46 percent of men vs. 65 percent of women).

Participants imagined what would upset them more: their partners having sex with someone else (but not falling in love with them) or their partners falling in love with someone else (but not having sex with them). Consistent with the evolutionary perspective, heterosexual men were more likely than heterosexual women to be upset by sexual infidelity and less likely than heterosexual women to be upset by emotional infidelity. Bisexual men and women did not differ significantly. Gay men and lesbian women also did not differ.

“Heterosexual men really stand out from all other groups: they were the only ones who were much more likely to be most upset by sexual infidelity rather than emotional infidelity,” said David Frederick, Ph.D., and lead author on the study.

Sexual and emotional infidelity can cause harm to both men and women, including leading to broken hearts and relationships coming to an abrupt and painful end; as well as abandonment, partner violence, and loss of resources when these resources are invested into affair partners.

“The responses of men and women to the threat of infidelity range from intense pangs of jealousy to elaborate displays of attention to woo their partner back. Jealousy can also trigger harmful and violent behavior, so it is important to understand what are the most potent triggers of jealousy,” said Dr. Frederick.

distraught womanThe evolutionary perspective notes that men face a problem that women never face: paternal uncertainty. They never know if their child is genetically related to them, there is always a chance the child could have been fathered by another man. In contrast, women never face the problem of maternal uncertainty. Thus, while it is expected that both men and women experience sexual jealousy, men may exhibit particularly heightened responses compared with women. Further, while women do not face maternal uncertainty, they risk the potential loss of resources and commitment from partners if they channel their investment to another mate.

Sociocultural perspectives have generally claimed that no difference would be expected between men and women. However, this study notes that men are socialized to be masculine, which includes having great sexual prowess. If a man’s partner commits sexual infidelity, this brings into question his sexual prowess and therefore threatens his masculinity, which leads him to react more negatively to his partner committing sexual rather than emotional infidelity.

In contrast, women are taught to think relationally and to be the emotional nurturers in a relationship. If their partner commits emotional infidelity, this may threaten her sense of self more so than if her partner commits sexual infidelity.

“There has been significant disagreement about whether or not men and women tend to differ in their responses to sexual and emotional infidelity. Most research relies on small samples or college samples. We set out to examine a broad and diverse sample of Americans,” said Dr. Frederick.

Consistent with evolutionary perspective, one’s reaction to sexual verses emotional infidelity is likely shaped by environmental and personal factors. This gender difference emerged across age groups, income levels, history of being cheated on, history of being unfaithful, relationship type, and length. Factors such as age, income and whether people had children were unrelated to upset over sexual versus emotional infidelity. However, younger participants were notably more upset by sexual infidelity than older participants.

A review of ethnographic accounts from 16 societies found that infidelity was the most common cause of marital dissolution. A meta-analysis of 50 studies found that 34 percent of men and 24 percent of women have engaged in extramarital sexual activities. Infidelity in dating relationships is even higher.

A total of 63,894 participants ages 18-65 years completed the survey. On average, participants were in their late 30s.

Original article can be found here.

 

So what are your thoughts?

What would upset you more…physical infidelity or emotional infidelity? Why?

Please share and discuss your thoughts in the comment section below.

 

    92 replies to "Impact of Sexual vs Emotional Infidelity"

    • gizfield

      I think it’s really unfortunate that they choose to use the word “jealousy” as the thing to focus on in this article, for a couple of reasons. First, as always, it’s makes it sound like the issue is the betrayed spouse’s reaction, not the cheating itself. Second, I think jealousy is a pretty simple emotion and doesn’t accurately describe what you are feeling. Throw in rage, disgust, incredulity, etc, andnd you might get a little closer to the truth. Also, like most statistics, it focuses on what it wants to. By that, I mean, the percentages shown say a certain amount of people feel this way. But the others do not. Hope that makes sense, it’s early.

      • CookieMomster

        There seem to be a lot of unfortunate conclusions drawn here. What if your children are grown and the wife has no fear of being able to support herself alone? Then that grief of being betrayed by an emotional affair has to be from something much deeper than loss of “potential resources”. And while I believe it’s true that my spouse would be more upset if I committed physical adultery rather than emotional adultery, I don’t think it would be rooted in any doubt of paternity. Bottom line, the conclusions seem true in that it really does seem that women care more about emotional infidelity and men care more about physical infidelity but the reasoning given here feels faulty at best.

      • Doug

        I didn’t like the word jealousy being used either, Giz. I think they changed it later on in the article to “upset” if I’m not mistaken.

        • gizfield

          Thanks, Doug, for the info. “Upset” is kind of a mild description of the Betrayed Spouse’s feelings but it is a major improvement over “jealousy”, lol.

          • Strengthrequired

            I hate the word jealousy, being used for infidelity. The only one that can be given that word is the ow, om, because they are the ones trying to take what doesn’t belong to them. The betrayed are merely just trying to hang onto wha tthey have, it is not jealousy for the betrayed. Not at all.

      • exercisegrace

        Giz,

        I totally agree. I have always HATED the word “jealousy” when associated with anything related to affairs. I was branded “jealous” when I began asking my husband about his relationship with his co-worker. In truth, I was REACTING to a very REAL situation. It was a healthy, protective reaction. I just wish I hadn’t let him shame me into backing down. I was made to feel I was “crazy”. That I was “going to damage his career” and my favorite…”do YOU want to go out and get a job when you make me lose mine because you’re being paranoid?”

        • Strengthrequired

          Eg, I was told, when I questioned ” you can go out and do my work, take on all the stress and pressures, and I will sit at home and do nothing”

          • exercisegrace

            SR, omg. I heard those exact same words and many like them. I was ready to check our basement for a pod! It was always about how I was trying to ruin his career with my “jealousy, paranoia, craziness, etc etc”. He also would threaten to quit, “and then we’ll see how long we last!!”. He always managed to make me cringe away. Our therapists have all said he was just desperate to make me back away from a truth I was getting WAY too close to.

            • Strengthrequired

              Eg, that’s the thing, they use our trust and our position as wife and mother to carry on their affair, by using work as a tool, and if they didn’t work how hard they work then we wouldn’t have what we have.
              So we just feel bad for pressuring them.

    • Gizfield

      Personally, I dont much subscribe to the whole emotional vs. sexual affair thing. To me cheating is Cheating. It’s more a way for Cheaters to convince you they Didn’t Do Anything Wrong! I told my husband that the fact that he was alone with the whore at her apartment was enough evidence to me that they had sex. He can’t disprove it, and the burden of proof is on him, not me.

      Like emotional abuse always accompanies physical abuse, emotional infidelity always accompanies physical infidelity. Unless they just meet up, screw, and leave. Which is a whole new level of disgusting to me anyway. Thats psychopath activity.

      I do think the sex act does UP the Ick factor significantly. I do hope if he had sex with this nasty skank, he sanitized his penis each and every time. Eeeeewwww.

    • Paula

      I agree entirely wirh Giz. And in the beginning the emotional aspects of his affair were incredibly painful. With time, the sexual part of his affair has caused the most physical, emotiinal and mental damage to me. Not being able to achieve sexual safety or orgasm I over three years – due to both the mind movies and numbness I now face the world with – causes my immense unhappiness. A huge loss of my identity and femininity, not to mention exercise, and release of endorphins. However, I was told by one counsellor that my mind is wired in a fairly masculine way, and HIS in a feminine way – he had coped with infidelity – to a degree – in a previous relationship. I kinda knew I couldn’t. Despite much understanding, love and a fair degree of forgiveness, unfortunately I was right

    • exercisegrace

      My husband’s affair was both an EA and a PA. It lasted just over a year, and he ended it without me catching them (although I had been very suspicious).

      For me, the physical side has been much harder to take. We have been married 27 years, were high school sweethearts and were each others’ first and only. To know he could throw away the purity and sacredness of that is unbearable. To realize she lied to him about having HPV and to know he then had sex at least two more times AFTER he knew her disease status? Excruciating. I had to have a hysterectomy at roughly the midpoint of their affair. It was my second surgery for bleeding so severe, I had to be transfused. Twice. My doctor says while we can’t prove it this late in the game, it was likely caused by exposure to HPV. My health has been put at risk, and this cancer-causing STD could rear it’s ugliness years in the future. I am sure I don’t have to tell you all the horror of the mind movies. They had sex in our home, in several different places. Including once in the bathroom I still use daily. And yes, we could sell it but it would cripple us financially and put our retirement at risk. She has done enough financial damage already, so I wait. When the time and real estate market is right, this “whore house” is gone.

      The emotional piece of it is difficult as well, but for me it has taken a back seat. It is easier for me to understand working with someone, sharing your day with them, chatting about things, and letting boundaries slip. I can see where talking about personal things could gradually increase. A co-worker overhearing a frustrating call from home, lending a sympathetic ear, etc. My husband’s whore openly admitted she “fished” for him for a LONG time before he ever knew she was changing the rules of their friendship.

      I can also see where depressed, lonely people get too caught up in giddy back and forth texting. They enjoy the attention and it escalates further than they mean for it to. It is WRONG. But I can see emotions getting out of control and things being said that should never be said. Because emotions can be fickle things. They are based on feelings and feelings can change with the wind. However, I’m not going to say it doesn’t devastate me to know he declared himself in love with another woman. Even though now he says it was never what he felt for me, and he knew it at the time. Even though he refers to it as an “escape” and even at the time he saw it as a form of self-destruction. T

      • Paula

        Yep, EG, you know how similar our experiences were. I was a virgin, he was not, and that was fine. He and I both had many friendships with people of the opposite sex. I was never jealous, but in retrospect, AFTER he cheated, I have questioned whether all of these friendships were appropriate? I think so, but cheating changes boundaries, and makes you question so much! I have also been exposed to HPV – which the OW denies – I think that is a mind game she played with me to make me think there were other affairs – after much investigation, I don’t think there were, and mine was totally open and honest from the beginning (well, how do you ever know?) She gave us chlamydia also, so the likelihood he got it anywhere else drops again… Although I haven’t had to endure a hysterectomy – and I feel sick for you about that – I have had early cervical cancer treatments, and they were not a whole heap of fun either. Being constantly monitored for something that I had rammed home to him, and our kids for decades (safe sex, assholes – no outside sex is the ideal, but for God’s sake, use protection if there is ever anything less than ideal, think of MY health, please – although I wasn’t aware until after I got HPV that condoms are of little use against this) about, stings. His shame, sorrow and remorse don’t take any of the hurt and my unfounded intense SHAME about contracting STIs away.

        • exercisegrace

          Paula, yes my dear we are unfortunately twins in this awful journey. But at least we can talk to each other and know we are not crazy! I have done the same thing. Basically reviewed our entire 33 year history together with a fine tooth comb. But even my husband remains adamant that this was his issue and his failing. There has been nothing (even after two years of marriage counseling) that has come out as a huge issue pre-affair. They all tell me it was his depression, childhood issues, and major life stressors. The perfect storm, they call it. Does this help? Honestly, not really. I envy those who know their marriage was on the downhill slide prior to the affair. If you can identify a failing then you have something to fix. And once you fix it, you have some amount of reassurance it will never happen again. My husband crapped all over something that wasn’t broken. Hopefully he is getting his emotional health where it needs to be so he never makes these choices again.

          I too feel intense shame. When I went to the doctor’s office to get tested for STD’s, I had to fill out a new health history. When it asked “have you ever been to exposed to…..” and then listed a bunch of STD’s? I started crying right there in the waiting room. Awful. I checked yes and wrote in BIG letters…because my husband CHEATED. He has made me feel like I am some kind of whore and at the same time I feel violated, almost raped by what they did.

          Hang in there my friend!

          • Holdingon

            To me it is like rape, your being forced to have sex with people against your will, probably many people, who knows. If they can cheat after 23 years I’m sure that it happened before.

    • Strengthrequired

      I was devastated when my h started his ea, declaring his love for the ow and not for me. Deep down you know that it will get to a pa, if it hadn’t already, and when you find out that it was pa as well, it’s like more intense pain, you never thought possible.
      Like eg and Paula, my h is my first, and feel that our innocence is gone. Nolonger does our marriage feel sacred. There is a hole now where before there wasn’t, and I don’t know if the hole can be filled again. I am so disgusted that he took a chance with my life for the sake of someone else. Selfish selfish selfish act. If it was me that betrayed him, he would not be here. Even though he tells me he would. I don’t believe it, and the truth is he knows I would never have done that to him. I often think about leaving, because I’m not sure how to get past what happened. Tbh I felt differently when it was just a ea, add a pa to it, it’s a completely different playing field. I truly hope he was well and truly sanitised after poking that trash. Sickening…..

    • theresa

      Paula, I’ve missed you. Your thoughts and grace have always given me a sense of peace.

      This is a hard one for me. He has had a PA in the past, more than one.

      D-day #1 for this episode I heard the scripted bullshit, “only friends, helping her with her career path, she understands me re the job, you told me not to bring the job home (PURE BULLSHIT), I don’t really know anything about her, I did nothing wrong!
      Get out the shovel!
      After being confronted with evidence to the contrary, he paused in his dance long enough to admit a physical attraction. But “nothing happened”. Pile it on! It wasn’t for lack of trying.
      Since the affair continued for another year (and I knew something was up) I haven’t believed one f&$@# word.
      So which is worse for me? I think it’s the fact that he never considered what affect his actions had on me, especially since it continued.
      As far as the physical aspect it ‘s more rage. I’m in healthcare. I’ve seen more than once the fallout on the betrayed when the spouse has bought an infected individual into their bed! The absolute disregard not just for my feelings but especially for my physical well being.
      I understand that men and women feel differently about sex. Women make love, men have sex. This does not absolve them for the betrayal. It’s still emencely painful.

      We both took vows, made promises. This betrayal is what rocks my foundation!

      He has done his best dancing this time

      I don’t “elieve one f&@¥#%~word he says about that. One communication I unearthed was trying to arrange a liaison. He has admitted to trying to get physical only afteronted by

      • Blue

        Teresa, I’d like to ask you the same question I just asked Joan. What are you going to do? Are you going to still try and keep your marriage together?

        • theresa

          i’m stuck in the mud right now due to illness (m-I-l in Florida, I’m not, so I’ve been spending a lot of time down there) and finances. What I’m trying to do now is to try to let stuff go. I’ve stopped working on it. I’d like to say it’s an in house separation, but it’s not really feasible in a 2 room apartment. And he just does not get it.

          What I have been doing is to stop taking his crap and call him on it as it comes. This helps greatly. My requirements and needs are known explicitly. This limits a lot of his stupid stuff, and stupid excuses.
          I’m not happy but I’m not miserable, but still a long way out.
          And I’ve been looking forward, not backward, and living today.
          Paula described her situation a while back and I have taken some help from her current solution.
          This is definitely temporary, and there is a light out there, with or without him.

      • Holdingon

        I don’t know who told you men don’t like to make love, just sex, but it’s far from the truth. Making love is way more exciting, I pretty much only want to make love, on occasion we might just have a good hard f###, but making love, to me that means a lot of body contact and a lot of kissing, can’t get better then that. I’ve never been with anyone I didn’t think I loved, I’ve never had casual sex, never will, to me there is no such thing.

    • Joan

      I think how one phrases these questions makes a world of difference. A one night stand at a convention is to me sexual infidelity. A repeat occurence is both emotional and sexual infidelity, even if there is more a desire for the physical part in the relationship because the CS was emotionally compromised by the need/want/desire to be with the OP. I believe the handle used should be “emotional betrayal” because “emotional affair” brings up connotations that are often not true. The word affair is usually used in context with sex, which if it did not happen doesn’t mean either party didn’t want it to happen. The desire itself to get closer to someone else and infatuation and affection they feel is already an emotional betrayal. Whether or not the other person feels the same way is immaterial if the CS is focusing on the OP rather than his or her marriage. The excitement and “affair” in his or her brain is very powerful stuff. He or she may have an inappropriate infatuation with another person that grows in his or her mind because he or she doesn’t believe that to be a problem for the spouse because he or she feels better about themselves and they are not having sex after all. But they spend all their time thinking of this OP and what they will write them in their next email or talk with them about. They will primp and dress better and think less and less about their spouse and their kids. maybe they have this infatuation with someone much younger in an effort to stay young themselves.
      They may try to deceive themselves about the intensity and begin to justify it by secretly blaming their spouse for not giving them the same emotional thrill and disconnect . (They get the dopamine effect with the OP).
      How do I know? My husband has this type of infatuation three years ago with an 18 year old college girl we knew. He became very angry when I found the emails. Then he went behind my back and lied to the counselor and me about ending it. he could not stand losing this “friend” who was “so emotionally mature” and whose “friendship” he valued so much. Once In an angry rare he told me I didnt know what it was like to love someone and not have them love you back. He swears he was just upset then but the way he said it was with heart rending sobs. It was real in his mind even if she didn’t know. He was working on her in daily emails, flattering her and writing her with wit and humor and showing great interest in her deep thoughts and feelings and interests. Very flattering for a young woman to feel they are on equal footing with a man they knew from church whom they respected greatly.
      We went through 2-1/2 years of marriage therapy and he went through two years of individual therapy which I believed was useless as he just became more entrenched that I needed to move on and get over it although he was not empathetic for me and knew I had seen him act desperate when I made him stop emailing and talking with her.

      . Health insurance changed and now if is too expensive to go to therapy or a marriage counselor. He is 40 years her senior and we have kids older than she is as well as a daughter who is a friend of hers. Of course all of this is secret as he told me I just want to embarrass him.

      So emotional betrayal is very real and sexual infidelity is real. I think it is extremely difficult for a marriade to survive both, but if one has a closed down husband who doesn’t show much emotion then he will likeky not want to feel badly about himself so he will always avoid talking about the EA. no easy answers.

      • Blue

        Are you going to stay with him Joan? Do you love him still? He doesn’t seem to have gained any wisdom, just undying limerance for this girl.

        Does he treat you like his beloved wife?

    • theresa

      My apologies. My iPad keeps dropping my connection, been going on for a while. As a result my posts are usually a mess.
      Can I edit my own stuff?

    • antiskank

      I have been dealing with my cheating husband’s emotional affair for almost 3 years since D-Day and it was obviously going on before I found out. I mostly believe that it never became physical due to the circunstances around the whole thing.

      Knowing the pain that this has caused me and continues to cause daily, I cannot even begin to imagine more pain than this. If a physical affair is that much worse, I don’t think I could survive it! Knowing that my CH felt that he was in love with another person, taking time away from me, spending time with her whenever he could, the cruel things said to me, the declaration that he had never loved me, that she was his only love, comparisons to her – all part of a traumatic event that nearly destroyed me.

      Although to my knowledge, my CH’s affair never involved sex, his fantasies sure did for another two and a half years after D-Day. On occasion, I have imagined that if they had progressed to a physical affair that he would realize that real life with her could not possibly measure up to his fantasy. She wasn’t the most perfect being to ever grace the universe, sex wouldn’t be so fantastic as to be the ultimate out of body experience, they wouldn’t spend every minute of every day with each telling each the other how fantastic they are. If this had happened I am sure that he would not have taken so long to stop obsessing over her, longing for her, fantasizing about sex with her so he would have gotten over her much sooner. A bit of a catch 22 I guess, I’m sure I would not have gotten over it so easily!

      I admire anybody that can deal with these situations and come out healthy at the end of it. The pain is so intense that it affects all aspects of our lives. I feel so badly for those people that have to deal with the added dimension of a phyical affair. And the associated health risks are just downright scary! What disgusting irresponsible behaviour – how can they do this to us?

      When it comes down to it, whether a physical or emotional affair, a one night stand or long term affair, a one-timer or a serial cheater, man or woman – cheating in any form is wrong, irresponsible, selfish, inconsiderate, disrespectful, disgusting and IT HURTS!!!!

    • tabs

      EG,

      I too had a hysterectomy roughly around a year after my CS started his affair. I had all the same symptoms: heavy, continuous bleeding, and severe anemia. I never made a connection between the affair and HPV until I read your blog. I will have to do some research and see if there are connections.

      • exercisegrace

        Tabs,

        My doctor tells me they have learned a lot about HPV in the last year or two. They now attribute all cases of cervical cancer to this virus. He told me it is the worst STD to get because they can’t cure it or even treat it and it causes cancer. It can also stay dormant in the body for years. It causes cancer in other places too and they have even found HPV in breast cancer tissue. While they have not yet found a causative link between endometriosis and HPV, they HAVE found HPV in endometrial tissue. My doctor thinks it’s just a matter of time and told me he thinks my sudden onset of symptoms was no coincidence. After the first surgery, I was told the endometriosis could come back but it would be a very slow return. But within just a few months it was back severely enough to warrant a hysterectomy. They wanted to preserve one ovary, so I wouldn’t be suddenly thrown into menopause, but they were both too far gone.

        I will also note I had other signs, which I have since been told are a dead give away. I had multiple urinary tract infections, and two vaginal infections. My ob/gyn even asked me if I was having sex with someone else or if my husband could be. At the time I laughed. I had no idea the whore was even on his radar screen, let alone having a full-blown affair. As someone else said below, THIS is another reason why affairs and secrets are so devastating. They can literally cost someone their health if not their very life.

    • Steve

      My wife had an PA for several months, the # of months keeps changing with each telling, and then continued an EA for another year +-. I too suspected not only the affairs, but that she had contracted Genital Herpes. Since we were separated at the time, she denied both the affair and the GH each time I asked her. After she came back to our marriage and we started having sex, I “assumed” she would never put me at risk of getting herpes. so I again “assumed” she must have been telling me the truth. I WAS WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS! After about of year of being back together I contracted herpes, and even after telling her my Dr. suspected herpes, and we were just waiting on the test results, she continued to say “well I haven’t been with anyone else” . The day the nurse called to confirm I had herpes, she finally confessed. That was 2 years ago tomorrow.
      Due to my having a rare form of Lymphoma my having chemo could cause the herpes to go to my brain and do serious damage if not kill me. Yes, we are still together, my wife is doing all of the “right” things, but I am having a very difficult time even after two years, accepting what she has done. The way I view it she took all, of what should have been my decisions to make, away from me.
      Ironically she works in the medical profession which means she had access to the same knowledge about genital herpes that I now possess. It’s an incurable STD which can be transmitted at any time by a carrier. The carrier can infect a partner even if they are not having an active outbreak. The only safe way to not transmit it is to avoid all contact with an uninfected person. Her excuse for having sex with me and informing me was she didn’t think she could give it to me if she wasn’t having an active outbreak!
      I cannot change what is done, but I also cannot, as of this point in time, forget or even accept. I keep hoping time and hard work at overcoming the damage my wife has caused will eventually allow me to have some peace with all of this. We shall see.

      • Blue

        And some ignorant people wonder what’s so wrong with extramarital affairs if you don’t know about them?!!!! It’s not just about emotions, it’s about protection from STI/STD! Eventually, emotional infidelity had no place to grow except into physical infidelity. If it’s just an EA- I would call that an Emotionally Transmitted Infection. I’ve RARELY heard of an EA that produced any good feelings for a marriage.

        The exact purpose of marriage is to ‘protect’ your spouse through the vow. That the legal insurance a spouse has.

        If I didn’t think keeping my family together and happy wasn’t the most important thing in the whole world, it would be only fair to charge these 2 AP with dumbass illegal behavior, whether they’re infected or not. APs are not under a legal vow to fidelity but a spouse is under a legal contract to their spouse for fidelity. Am I right? (just a fantasy to charge their cheating arses but I’m not going to do it)

        I Hope everyone finds their happiness some way, some day. (At least we know there are truly some honest people out there also)

        • Strengthrequired

          Blue, how are you coping with finding out your h affair was pa as well? I know you found out about a month or so after I found out last year. I still feel quite devastated. even though I know what’s done is done, and nothing can change what he has done, even if we wanted it to, but in all honesty it eats at me. It’s like that pain just doesn’t go, no matter how much I want it to. Its like I can’t see past his failure as a husband and to our vows.
          So I was just wondering how you are coping?

          • Gizfield

            Strength, I am SO PROUD of you for saying HIS failure as a husband, and to his vows. It had nothing to do with you. it’s all on him and cousin IT. EEW. I don’t see how you keep from killing him, lol. Please don’t though, hes not worth it.

            • Strengthrequired

              Giz, Thankyou, I’m proud of you too. It is definately our cs failings, not ours. Hopefully they have learnt from how they failed to make them better at protecting and looking after what they should have all along, our marriages and family. Hopefully they don’t need to make the same mistake all over again to decide to be better.

          • Blue

            Hi Strength, I was out last night and have to work today, but will try and reply tonight. Hope everyone has a day of more good thoughts than bad.

            • Strengthrequired

              Have a good day at work blue.

          • Blue

            Hi Strength, hope you are doing well!

            I was trying to think how to respond to how I’m coping. Some days are great, he is great and loving and thoughtful. If I know OW is going to be at a meeting or that he’s gone out to coffee with a bunch of women from work, I lose my faith in him. ‘Trust but verify’ is easier said than done when he was very good at lying. If I had one wish it would be to that I could Trust him because he was truly being trustworthy. How do I know what he’s like at work? You see, my husband loves women’s attention and he’s still joking around with lots of women at his work. This is how OW became so infatuated with him- a man showing interest and trying to make her laugh. Our therapist once said I can’t take away his ‘happiness’ at humdrum work or else he’ll resent me. I feel quite defeated sometimes. I’m constantly second guessing my intuitions. He treats me like his queen- but for all I know he treats all women like this but I’m the one who gets to do his laundry.

            I’d love to say everything’s great, because it is usually. His unfaithfulness has made me lose my romantic innocence. Now I feel like a caged tiger. I still feel resentment that the person who was supposed to protect our family didn’t, that he was a selfish little coward and I don’t know. Now that I’ve lost my innocence whether this seamy character of his lurks beneath or whether he can be my hero again? I’m sorry, having a bad week for a bunch of stupid reasons. My thoughts get so muddled when I think of it all. One minute I’ll feel euphoric about him and the next repulsed by how he got sucked into the relationship with his swooning, predator coworker.

            I’m going to start working (again) on not letting their stinky actions of the past define me. I’m going to be the best person I can be. This is my goal!!!!

            • Gizfield

              Blue, I sincerely hope this Quack is no longer your therapist. On my opinion he/she needs whateverLicense to dispense that sort of horseshit revoked. Normal people at work “find their happiness” by actually like working, or having appropriate relationships with co workers. Maybe even goofing around on the internet sometimes. They dont treat it like they are at Match.com. Put your foot down. He has no right to resent you for putting an end to his crap. Resent away. And can it with the Coffee Dates with the women, too.

            • Gizfield

              Oh, wow, I forgot to mention, did you all see that story from Australia where two Cheaters at work were having sex in the office after work. The windows were tinted so I guess they thought they were invisible or something. They weren’t, and an entire bar full of people were watching, taping it, and putting it on You Tube. How ridiculous can you get. I told my husband about it and we had a good laugh at the stupidity of these two adulterers.

            • Blue

              I know Giz. I feel like a such a weakling sometimes. I’d love to be the woman who says ‘I don’t need no man’ I don’t really, but I love the intimacy- that’s just me.

              When I’m speaking to H, everything comes out wrong or bitter. He mirrors me, actually he mirrors everyone. If you’re hot for him, he’s hot for you back, if you resent him he resents you. Maybe I’m like that too. I’ll have to think about that.

              Take Care! off to work now..

            • Gizfield

              Blue, you are not the weakling here. He is. As are any of the work Twits who are flattered by inappropriate attention from a married man. staystrong, and have a great day !

            • Strengthrequired

              Blue, how many. Times you have felt the way I feel astounds me. One minute I’m full of so much love for him, the next minute, I feel disgusted. Disgusted he did what he did to us. My head goes from one extreme to the other, one minute I’m able to see a wonderful future ahead with him, next minute I struggle to keep from just leaving, because let’s face it, it is damn hard, and way to draining. It is a full on roller coaster ride of emotions, and resentment.
              All I want is to be able to trust again too, the innocence of our relationship is gone, and just left tainted.
              It’s funny, last night we were joking around and he said
              “Don’t touch what you can’t afford” my response was “I can afford you, you practically gave yourself away to someone else, actually you paid her to have you, so I can definately afford your cheap ass” lol
              So really he can’t tell me again, that I dont touch what I can’t afford, not anymore, that joke has no more meaning. Lol.
              Tbh, I couldn’t help but say that too him, just spilt out like water from a tap.
              I too believe we are truly good most days, yet it really is the trust that I struglle with, i feel exactly like you described, where I cannot trust my own thoughts as well, I’m damned if I do and da,end if it don’t.
              Im happy that you are returning to work soon, I’m still studying, so need to get my ass back into rhythm now that the kids have returned to school. Yet I’m also waiting for my h to move our business to a new premises, so when that happens I will go to work there everyday.
              Thankyou too for sharing , I was hoping I wasn’t still feeling the way I do, like I should be better by now, yet we seem to be at the same place.

            • Blue

              Thanks Giz and Strength, Having you guys here not only makes me feel less lonely in my situation but it truly gives me strength. I know I’m not alone. I just can’t talk to anyone about it that could really understand what I’m going through. It’s just so painful!! and scarey!! I hope I can be as good a friend to you one day.

            • Gizfield

              You are welcome, Blue! I’m so happy it is helping you. I think we all learn from each other. Thank goodness we have this place, right? You are right, nobody understands but we do and thats what counts.

            • Blue

              Strength, I forgot to say very quick and witty response to your H about his ‘cheap ass’ This made me laugh. Usually I think of witty responses too late. What was his response?

              I still fantasize how I could have handled things through all this, but I doubt the outcome could be better than it is being who I’m dealing with. So with everything that happens I try and weigh what the outcome will be and it could really go any way bad or good no matter what I do or did- because I’m not dealing with someone who’s shown much integrity.

              I hope it all works out well with your H business move and that you’ll be an integral part of it. Remember, it’s a big learning curve getting back out there in the paid workforce but soldier on! I bet you’d be an excellent employee!

            • Strengthrequired

              Blue, we started the business together, he does all the hard work, I do the office, has always been like that. i just never get paid. Lol now who’s the cheap one.
              My h responded to him being cheap pretty quietly, just said, ohh so I’m cheap? So of course I had to remind him again of why. Lol
              i hope some day soon blue, we both you and I get to put these dreadful times behind us.

    • Angela

      It certainly supports the overall impression of hetero men as emotional lunkheads and why women find friendships with gay men so satisfying.

      • Blue

        and gay women. They don’t flirt with your husband.

      • Holdingon

        You just need to find the right man, or the man has to be with the right woman.

    • TryingHard

      If the affair is a PA then it is undoubtedly and EA as well. I think a lot of people cop to an EA thinking it’s not as bad as a PA. And yes at least with an EA you aren’t going to worry about STD’s. However, if one’s mate is involved in an EA they should use precautions as the fact that they are still minimizing and lying is a VERY real possibility.

      I have never been jealous of anyone for anything. I’m happy when people get to do nice things, live in nicer homes, drive nicer cars, take nicer vacations etc. That is their experience not mine. So to use the jealously card is an insult to all involved in an affair, both BS and Cheater. Jealously has nothing to do with it. Look you find someone else you like better than me, go for it. BUT what you can’t do is have me and the other person at the same time AND if you do your life should be made a living hell.

      No way I was EVER remotely jealous of the OW. In fact I felt sorry and disgusted for the pathetic cockroach. She def got the wrong end of the stick!! Matter of fact I don’t know anyone more pathetic than she. How on earth or why on earth would I ever be jealous of a sad person that has NOTHING!

      If anything she was jealous of ME! And rightfully so. I am everything she wanted to be. So to say the BS is jealous is nothing but an ignorant assumption. But this does bring up a curious question. I wonder if I were to ask my H what he would say? HHMMM LOL maybe I’ll ask him. Of course if he answered to the affirmative I may just have to turn him into a capon!!!

    • Gizfield

      Trying , when I read something with a word I dislike, I replace it with what I think it should be, lol. For example, instead of Jealousy, I used “anger and disgust”, much better…

      Actually, I think most Jealousy is a Lack of Trust, that has been activated by the person’s calling you jealous’s actions

    • Tryinghard

      Absolutely Giz!! Why do they jealous when it was probably the lack of jealously that made us so naively trusting!! That’s just stupid. Yes ANGER, hurt, disgust are better words.

      My H could never accuse me of jealously. I have good self esteem, I know who I am and what I’ve accomplished in my time on this earth. I even look at beautiful successful celebrities and never feel a twing of jealousy. Never wanted anyone else’s job or promotion nothing. If anything I think I’ve been the object of others jealously, although I truly believe they have nothing for which to be jealous of in me. I don’t know but my parents raised me with that value so I think it stuck throughout my life :/

      • gizfield

        When we were dating, for three years, I heard how I was different from other girls, not jealous, or a game player, or a drama queen,etc. etc. His friends liked me, I never had problems with anyone. I’m not high maintenance, demanding, any of that crap. Laid back.

        He starts dating the whore, suddenly I’m accused of being jealous, crazy, demanding, psycho. I didn’t think twice about this skank when I met her. But she really got her jollies thinking I am so JEALOUS of her. I didn’t change, you are either a jealous person or you’re not.

        My first husband was an extremely jealous person. He compared everything about everybody. Jobs, hours, cars, looks, personality, intelligence. He was jealous of everything in my life. Family, friends, cats, books, cross stitch, church. Every single thing.

        • gizfield

          Oops, should be houses, lol. I think true jealousy is a personality disorder. One day my first husband accused me of being a lesbian cause I wanted to go to a cat show with one of my girl friends. He called my friend a bitch. Her husband heard, and said some stuff to him, and they got into it while we were on the phone. Needless to say, I did not go to the cat show. That is pathological jealousy.

          A lot of stuff that isn’t jealousy gets labeled as such. Today at work, one of the girls who works at home came into the office with her five month old baby. She was turning in her equipment because she is moving to Nebraska. She is young, beautiful, smart, sweet, kind. She is getting married in a few months, her fiance got a promotion, that is why they are moving. She had the prettiest ring I’ve ever seen. We asked, she said it is three and a half carats. I wasn’t ” jealous” of this girl. I did feel a tiny bit “wistful”. That’s kind of like a feeling of missing your past, or maybe how you wish things might have been for yourself. But it doesn’t direct any ill will toward the other person, or even yourself. It’s a fleeting feeling, don’t get it very often. That’s about as close to jealousy as I get. I’m damn sure not going to be jealous of someone who dates other women’s husbands.

          • gizfield

            You know, it’s really amazing the stuff you forget. I just remembered that I had to get like an advance “approval” from my first husband before I went anywhere. I kid you not. Preferably as soon as I knew about it, so he could deliberate about it and give me grief as long as possible. I had to supply details like who would be there, where it was, and most importantly, when I would be back.

            Once, I went to a Christmas party for my office friends at a coworker’s house. I missed the curfew and got home at 11p.m. instead of 10 p.m. I think. He was waiting for me like I was a bad child. Yelled and cussed at me a while. Shoved me, I fell over a chair. Clumsy me. He also hit me on the arm, with his fist, or possibly a broom. I’m not sure exactly but I know there was a broom in the mix. I had a nice big bruise for a few days. Good times, lol.

    • Rachel

      Giz, I like that. Jealousy is a lack of trust.
      Very true!

    • gizfield

      Thanks, Rachel!

    • Rachel

      Giz,
      Been reading the book all night because of the loud winds shaking my whole house this evening. I live in Connecticut smack in the middle of that annoying blizzard.
      Wow is all that I can say about the book!!! It is my ex all the way!!!
      Have to say the best $3.00 I have ever spent.
      Been reflecting lately about the comments that the ex would some how feel privileged to say to me. That is what angers me, as I never opened my mouth to defend my self. took it all in and let it eat away at me. I have to remember that I will never have that again and that is total relief and peace.
      I got my hair cut last week somewhat shorter in length than usual. I was tell my new man about it on the phone and he said I’m sure you still look just as beautiful.
      The ex would have made this a full blown argument and said, “why did you do that? You know I like long hair! Don’t you want to do things to make me happy?”
      My response should have been No!
      It’s not about you. But I never did. Just let the comments sit with me and roll in my head wondering why I could never please this man.
      I finally get it now. Took some time, but I get it.

      • Gizfield

        Stay safe, Rachel. The weather service said our area hasn’t had over one inch of snow in about 1500 days, lol. Thats a while.

        I’m so happy you like the book. I did think your ex fit the profile. My first husband too. I think all betrayed spouses should read that book. Most cheaters display many of the characteristics listed. They display the initial aspects toward the affair partner, and the devalue and discard behavior toward their spouse. Truly chilling when you think about it.

        • Gizfield

          First hus was obsessed with my appearance. Had to get Permission to cut hair. Never granted so I would finally just do it and listen to him bitch for weeks afterward.

          One particular Christmas Eve, he was not home when I got there after work. This was before debit cards and I had no money to buy food for Christmas dinner. This was probably the early 90s. I had to go borrow money from my grandmother. I was mad and decided to cut my hair since I had been wanting to and he’d been complaining about it.

          He got home very late and very drunk. Began harrassing me about the haircut. I told him I was tired and laid down on the couch to try to sleep. He proceeded to get a loaded gun, put it against my head, and tell me “why don’t you just sleep forever, bitch?” That scared me, so I ran to my neighbors in a t shirt and panties to call the police.

          • Gizfield

            Continued. He was arrested and charged with Aggravated Assault, a felony. apparently, they gave him access to a phone the night he was arrested, and he spent the rest of the evening calling me, cussing me, and threatening to kill me when he got home the next day.

            I’m not telling this story to get sympathy or upset anyone. But like I said, I don’t excuse my first husbands behavior due to alcoholism, or current husbands behavior due to affair Fog. Take note of the behavior, you will likely see it again. Whatever they do is within their valve set and they do choose it.

      • Holdingon

        Guilty, I would hate for my wife to cut off her hair, I wouldn’t be mad if she did but I would wonder why.

    • Tryinghard

      That’s awful Giz. Sounds like your first husband had a lack of maturity and control issues.

    • Gizfield

      Yes, Trying, he was the Total Package. Vietnam Veteran with a penchant for killing things. Mostly just threatening it. alcoholic. Porn addict.minor theif. Egomaniac.

      The worst thing is that when my current husband was dating the whore, he acted EXACTLY like husband one, minus the physical abuse. He even had the same satanic look inhis eyes.

      It’s why I don’t subscribe to the Affair Fog theory either. These people are aware of their shitty treatment of you and nasty behavior and they CHOOSE it. they take advantage of your kind nature to abuse you.

      • TryingHard

        Giz
        How many times did stuff like this happen before you got out? This sends chills up my spine. You always hear about stuff like this in the news and I have a family member who’s a cop so I hear plenty of stories, but I don’t know anyone who’s lived like this. I cannot imagine living with someone this mean.

        Do you think he had PTSD from Viet Nam? Lots of guys came back a lot crazy and a lot addicted because of that war, (don’t even get me started on the current wars we are in and the crazies we will be dealing with in the future as repercussions of the war). Was he kind before Viet Nam?

        I know what you are saying about the fog. I’m not much for that word either. I think they are in a place of indecision and quite frankly wanting to keep the status quo before the spouse found out. They still want their cake and eat it too. It worked for them until it didn’t.

        I know my H tried it but it back fired on him. Must have been horrible juggling two women’s emotional tantrums! They definitely have the capability to make the same bad choices. And I guess we’re naive fools for hoping they won’t :/ I suppose I will be forever vigilant and looking for red flags.

    • Gizfield

      You know, trying, truthfully I don’t know how many incidents there were. It varies in intensity, with the gun thing being one of the worst. I’ve pretty much forgotten them until something like Rachel’s haircut comment brings back a random memory. I was with him about twenty years til he died of a massive heart attack.

      I was 20 when I met him, after my freshman year in college. He was nine years older, had been married seven years, and divorced. I later found out about abuse against the first wife. I never knew him pre vietnam but he probably did have ptsd.

      I never talked about this when he was alive, to anyone. Most people probably dont. It’s very insidious in it’s development too. I guess he was a psychopath, I dont know.

      This may be a controversial thought, but I believe some affairs are based on abusive behavior. All the key factors are isolation, intimidation, and obsession with another person. I’m not excusing anyone’s behavior but I have seen comments on here about behavior between affair partners that I would consider abuse. They may not be aware of it, or too afraid of the consequences to do anything.

      • TryingHard

        Twenty years is certainly a long time to keep giving someone chances but I get it. Of course you don’t talk about it because everyone says “well why didn’t you leave?” like you are so stupid that that thought never occurred to you. It’s embarrassing for the victim of the abuse so you just keep your mouth shut. I’m sorry Giz this happened to you.

        Like I said VN did horrible things to many nice young men. It was a horrible war and horrible atrocities and run (more accurately mis-run) by a bunch of power hungry politicians. OOO how I wanted to protest it in my teen years, but my father would have disowned me given I’m a military brat!! PTSD from that war could have undoubtedly turned one into a psychopath!

        It sounds like he had a pretty miserable existence during his short time on this earth. How old was he when he died? Massive heart attack? Well abusing alcohol or drugs certainly has it’s physical repercussions. Did you have children with him?

        Sorry if I’m asking too many personal questions 🙂

    • Gizfield

      Actually I still dont talk about this in real life. a few people know a little but the only person I told it all to was my current husband. That was probably a mistake.

      If you think infidelity stories are met with looks of shock and horror, you should see the looks this kind of thing gets.

    • Gizfield

      The questions are no problem. Especially if they can help anyone else.

      He died one month before his fiftieth birthday. Alcoholism was listed on his autopsy report as one cause of death.

      The reason you dont leave. There is no one reason. In my case, I was isolated, parents dead, no close sibling s. financially strapped. He no longer worked and I was responsible for the bills. He had gotten very violent with me by then’ having

      • TryingHard

        Yeah it’s called Fear. Fear of the unknown. Just plain fucking fear of everything. Leaving, not leaving, it is insidious. Also Stockholm syndrome and it affects all of us one extent or another. It’s all fear.

        I was sexually abused as a young girl. I never told anyone till I was 25 and it all came out. I was pregnant with my second child and the SOB came to my house with a relative (he was a relative’s brother). I refused to come out of the room as I was napping when my H came to get me. Once they left he asked me why I wouldn’t come out and I told him. I also told my parents at the time. Needless to say NO ONE wanted to hear it and thought I was making it up. I let all that anger out and allowed myself to hate that son of a bitch! Amazingly no one wanted to talk about it with me and was even asked not to tell my in law whose brother had done it to me. As if it was better to protect my in law than deal with my pain of being sexually abused. Like I had done something wrong!!! I push it down and away but you know even the people that supposedly loved me and were supposed to protect me betrayed me by wanting to keep it hidden and secret. The SOB died and he too was an alcoholic and I never showed any remorse or expressed my sorrow to my in law whose brother he was. I was glad he died, I hoped he suffered. I felt like I had been abused again by having to continue to keep the secret and act like nothing had happened. People are fucked up to say the least.

        LOL it’s a wonder I have ANY kind of sanity!!! Well I hope it helped getting your abuse out if even just to cyberspace my friend. Sounds like we all have a lot to “let go”!

    • Gizfield

      Oops. He was having blackouts by this time, pretty much drinking continuously. Threatening to kill my cats. I truly was terrified of this guy. I looked at apartments but when you have a mortgage it’s pretty much a no go. I considered packing a few things and the cats in the car and heading out but that would mean no home, no job, no money.

      The news in most every city has stories daily of people who are killed or hurt every day trying to leave an abuser.

      • Holdingon

        If I was a woman and I was being abused by a mad man I think I would wait for him to fall asleep. ….

    • Gizfield

      What an awful story, Trying. Sorry that happened to you.

      Regarding Fear, you can never imagine if it hasn’t happened to you. I have never experienced anything like it.

      All this is why I get so pissed when someone tells people to “own their part” and similar horseshit when people cheat. It is 100 percent on the cheaters.

    • gizfield

      I have finally figured out something that has been puzzling me. How can cheaters ignore what they know to be true about their co cheaters? They KNOW they are cheaters, and liars, and shouldn’t be trusted. But they “love” them, trust them, and even marry them. How can this be so?

      My theory is that they just haven’t met “Monster” yet. I didn’t make that term up myself, I saw it on an infidelity blog. Anyway, you know who I mean. That nasty, ugly, psychopathic acting person cheaters turn into after an affair. The one you are supposed to excuse due to Affair Fog. They haven’t met Monster, yet. But they likely will, and will see what you have seen. Eeeew.

      I really would like to divorce my husband, I can’t really love him after what I’ve seen in him. But, that would bring Monster back into my life. I can’t really face that again. My arrangement suits my purposes anyway. I don’t want to date other people. I don’t want to have sex with him, or anybody really, for the most part. My daughter is happy, we have an enjoyable time as a family, and it’s just easier to stay married.

      But some of you will think “Oh, Gizfield, he deserves better!” Oh, really? He is the liar and cheater here. Not me. He is the one who wanted to stay married. Not me. I told him I will never trust him or forgive him. He made the choice to accept that. Not me.

    • Gizfield

      Oops, I forgot the rest of my comment. Dont I realize that I’d better Straighten Up and treat my husband “better” or he will Cheat Again?? You are absolutely correct, he will. If he is still a LYING, CHEATING JERK. otherwise, he won’t. Simple as that.

      The world is full of skinny, beautiful, wonderful, housework loving people who get cheated on everyday. This is why I separate my qualities as a wife from his cheating. Do I really want to spend my life wondering if I’m good enough to keep him faithful? Its a never ending cycle. What is the “tolerance ” level. If it’s ok to cheat on me cause I’m fat, what weight is necessary to prevent it. 150, 140, 120, or probably just whatever I’m NOT. Do you see how unacceptable this line of thinking is.? At least, to me.

    • TryingHard

      So Giz are you saying as soon as your daughter is of an age you’re out of the marriage?

      I agree fat people, skinny people, dumb, smart, pretty, ugly, housewives, career person, doesn’t make any difference. If one is so inclined to cheat they will. And I don’t know if your H will or not. Maybe, maybe not. The only way to predict the future is from the past sometimes.

      I don’t think he deserves more in a relationship, I think YOU deserve more. Why a woman your age wouldn’t want to have and really need, an emotionally and sexually fulfilling life? I know you’re younger than me and I’m telling you I will not live like that ever again. Hey I may be old but I’m not dead!!! I think sexual intimacy is tremendously important in a marital relationship otherwise you’re just roommates.

      I guess if you answer to my first question is yes then an intimate relationship is a moot point? I’m not criticizing Giz. I totally get that you aren’t interested in dating or having sex with strangers but you’re in a marriage and I just truly believe if there’s no intimacy it’s pretty hollow. I might be wrong 🙂 just sayin…

    • TryingHard

      And BTW if I’m not exciting enough or sex with me is old hat, been there done that, too borrrring to put any effort into, then I will dump him! Matter of fact this will be the topic of conversation tonight. I need to see more prioritizing in this area on his part. If he had time to take out of his busy schedule for 4 fucking years to be with her he can certainly to the same for me given how much he “loves and needs ME”. Don’t get me wrong. We have sex and it’s pretty good but I want more. Work, fatigue, stress, COLDS, distractions (effing TV in the bedroom!) sometimes trumps sexual intimacy. Not standing for it anymore!

      Thinking about changing my name from TryingHard to Notstayinonthebackburner!

    • Gizfield

      No, Trying , I’m not really sure whether I’ll be out of there when my daughter is an adult. I am definitely sure I will put him out if he cheats. Like you say, I dont know if he will or not.

      As far as sex and emotional stuff goes maybe I’m jaded or something, but it just really doesn’t mean that much to me. With, without, I’m equally good either way. I had my first sexual relationship with my boyfriend at 16, off and on for a few years. Then, with first husband 20 years. Lots of sex, all the time. Whatever else he was, he was an excellent sex partner. Then, I had an ok sex life with the current norman

    • Gizfield

      Damn tiny phone buttons. Ok sex life with husband three years dating, five years married til cheating. Then the whole post cheating Hysterical Bonding, ughhhh. So I’ve devoted a lot of my time/life to sex/love/emotions, etc. I’ve had it, and I’m just really not missing it that much, if at all. Each person is different though.

      My husband and I do have intimate times, sexually and otherwise, but it’s really just another part of life, not a real focus.

    • Gizfield

      P.s I didn’t feel criticized at all. And I dont know any “cu rrent norman”, lol.

    • Gizfield

      P.s. S. Please don’t change your name, Trying. It will be too long for me, lol.

      • TryingHard

        LOL ok Giz I won’t just for you!!!

        And maybe I’ll come up with a more hip hop, gansta name like Fo Shizel No mo Dradizel!

    • Gizfield

      Oh my, I don’t know what to say about that new name, lol.

      Maybe I need to think of a new one, too.

    • Strengthrequired

      Giz, trying hard, just wanted to say how sorry I am about all you both have been through. You both deserved better than what you were dished out. Hugs to too strong beautiful women.

      Also trying keep your name, lol

      • Gizfield

        Thank you, Strength ! You are a strong beautiful woman too ! We all are.

        • Strengthrequired

          Thanks giz…. I don’t think I’m as sweet as I used to be lol. I think I have a jean streak emerging. Lol

    • TryingHard

      I don’t know ladies. I think I need a bad ass, gangsta, type name. And damn Rhianna is already taken!!

      SR thanks for saying that. My abuser was a trusted extended member. For years I kept quite because I thought it was my fault. Then when it came out I was expected not to talk about it as if it didn’t happen which only drives the idea home that I could have prevented it!!! I know it’s not true but my family did nothing to help me or even show anger at my abuser. I’ve let it go and now it’s just a fact about me. But I also know if something like that happened to someone I know I’d sure as he’ll each out to them and not expect them to keep quite for my own comfort level. Same with my Hs affair. I didn’t ask for it and I know he’d like it to all go away well life don’t work like that. It’s part of his history and part of him not me!!!

      • Blue

        TH & Giz, I hope what didn’t kill you, made you stronger. The world is so f*cked up sometimes I sink into cynical states but then I listen and talk to people like you and I know there are truly honest, good people out there trying to be better.

        It just haunts and irritates me that there are so many fakes out there worried about ‘world peace’ when they can’t even be decent to their own neighbors?! They truly don’t get that kindness and charity begins at home.

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, that is what makes you the person you are, loving and caring. Your family should never have turned their back on what happened to you. Hugs.

        • TryingHard

          You are so sweet SR. And yes I think all the past bad stuff sometimes does make you stronger.

          I don’t feel like my family turned their back on me. I think they just weren’t educated enough in abuse to know what to do so the easier way was to put their head in the sand and act like it didn’t happen. I think they felt my in law needed protection from the shame of knowing his brother did it to me. His brother was quite a low life so I can’t imagine he would have thought any less about him. This guy deserved to die an early death. He did lots of awful things and was an awful useless person. I didn’t really need my relative to show me sorrow or pity about what his brother had done because it wouldn’t have changed the fact. Now my parents should have dealt with it a little more empathcally and also they were the ones that put me in his care when the abuse happened. They were religious people and I’m sure they “prayed” on it….whatever. Truth is they just didn’t know any better. I guess things could have turned out worse for my life because of the abuse. I didn’t turn to drugs or alcohol but I did learn to turn to myself and my inner strength and maybe that was my parents prayer. I’ll never know. So it is what it is and I’ve accepted it a long time ago but I have and will never forgive that asshole for doing it. I still hate him and he’s dead!!!

          • Strengthrequired

            Th, I do believe I used the wrong word for your family, I think you expressed it better than what I did. I agree, it was just easier to put their head in the sand. Quite unfortunate for you however.
            As you said, you did not let this person drag you down along with him, you grew into a strong good hearted person, you should be so proud of yourself, and quite honestly thank goodness you had good people around you.
            Why wouldn’t you hate this man, he did a terrible thing, I think I would be more worried if you didn’t. I was asking my h, is it bad of me to want him to hate cousin it as much as I do if not more? Yet that was never me before, I disliked, but didn’t have hate. I used to always tell my h, to not keep hate in his heart, to just keep the losers out of your life, so it’s actually quite funny that I want him to hate her. Lol
            It’s a whole different ball game when your the target of someone else’s plan to hurt you.

    • Gizfield

      Thank you, Blue. I always hope to help someone though this mess.

      I’m not sure all this makes you stronger always, unfortunately. I do think sometimes it gives you Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. it does usually make you wiser, at least. My advice is to just educate yourself about the habits of Cheaters as much as possible. They act in amazingly similar ways for the most part. Stay strong!

    • Tryinghard

      Oh no SR I didn’t take offense at your words. I guess I’ve just learned through pain and experience other people’s motivation and the importance to hold tight to your own inner strength. People, even and sometimes especially family, falls way short of good behavior because of sheer ignorance. My parents would never have knowingly hurt me. I don’t feel any bitterness towards them.

      You know I never confronted that jerk as an adult and called him out. I wish now I would have but what good would that have done. It would have been wasted words. I feel that way about the OW. I’d love to tell that whore off and I guess I did in the first email but I sure have a lot more to say. I hope she rots in hell too just as she’s rotting away here on earth! I’m not going to waste my words on her. I’d rather tell those that I love how much I love them:)

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, I know you didn’t lovely. I didn’t like how I worded it. I’ve learnt being a parent is hard, it’s not easy, we make mistakes, no one is perfect, we don’t always have the answers, and we deal with things the best we know how to. I do believe your parents thought they were doing the right thing for you at the time, protecting you the best way they knew how. I am sure they watched over you a lot more after that, their way of keeping you safe. I am sure it was always in the back of their minds.
        Strength comes from within, and I’m hoping if everything you gave faced, giz has faced and what I have faced as well as everyone else here has faced, over the years, that if it was a test from God, I hope we have finally passed these life tests and we get to live life what is left happier and content. Yet full of wisdom.

    • Tryinghard

      Oh boy is it ever. I’m glad my parenting days are over but now I have two little grandchildren to worry about but it’s not the same as raising your own children.

      Yes life is very difficult sometimes and I’m constantly wondering if I’m doing the right thing. Who knows. Everyone gets dealt a shitty hand eventually in this life. Got to be really smart in figuring out how to play them

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