microphoneIt’s been two months since our last open mic discussion – where you guys discuss the topics that are most important to you.

This is Open Mic #21 and we know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.

Anyways, the floor is all yours!

Feel free to discuss anything…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small. (It would be nice to hear some of these!)
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
  • How’s your favorite football team doing?
  • Who’s going to win the World Series and why?
  • What’s your favorite TV show?
  • Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

 

See also  Discussion - When You Contract an STD as a Result of Infidelity

    174 replies to "Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #21"

    • Shifting Impressions

      It’s the ROLLER COASTER RIDE that I’m finding so difficult. Progess seems to be made only to be dashed after one bad fight or one great day for that matter, I knew this was going to be a difficult journey but the one step forward and two steps back makes me crazy. I’m getting close to the two year anniversary of d-day and the crazy ups and downs of emotions are still there.

      Of course as we try to recover, life with all of it’s challenges marches on. Two deaths, illness and a wedding in the family topped off with major renovations….is enough to drive me to the edge. It all gets mixed up into one big bundle of grief.

      I no longer want to burden any of my close friends or family……they have been wonderful but I’m sure they are weary of listening. Thank goodness I can come here and feel understood and gain more understanding. Thank you for that Doug and Linda and all of you that comment.

      Does any of this sound familiar??? I phoned a therapist today and made an appointment. Probably overdue.

    • TheFirstWife

      Shifting. I am on the SAME boat and it is almost 2 years to DDay2. Ironically I was going to post the same thing.

      Even though my H is doing everything he can to the best of his ability, I just cannot shake the thought that:

      I suspect he will cheat again (he did have a strictly EA 16 years ago). Never admitted until last EA 2 years ago.

      I over analyze everything.

      I fear when he travels he is flirting or cheating behind my back in some other city with some random person (he has always traveled extensively for work but I never actually thought he would cheat).

      I fear he is secretly planning on divorcing me.

      I keep thinking he is really NOT happy being married.

      I put myself on this roller coaster at least 3x a week. Most times I don’t say anything but it is not good to walk around with these feelings.

      • Shifting Impressions

        Same boat for sure…..he also had an emotional affair about 16 years ago which I accidentally discovered a year after the first D-day almost two years ago.

        I read a fabulous post by Jeff Murrah (How to cope with cheating spouse) regarding fairness. He talks about how there is nothing fair about an affair. But he also goes on to talk about there are many things in life that are simply not fair. Part of his point was that if we don’t that accept that unfairness and try to equalize what happened we can find ourselves in the role of PUNISHER!! Tempting to be but sure, but that’s not the way to go.

        After reading, I made a list about everything that was unfair about the affair. As I read over the list, I realized that several points were things that happened in the PAST. Things that cannot be undone. I know that I have to make peace with the things on this list, whether we make it or whether we don’t.

        I noticed something else, some of the points were PRESENT BEHAVIORS. Present behaviors that totally are unfair………this is the stuff we need to be dealing with. I often have to stop midway the ROLLER COASTER RIDE, and ask myself what is true now? Or, what is fair now? I know some of his PRESENT BEHAVIOR is in NOT dealing with the past. I’m trying to stay in what is and what isn’t working NOW. I’m not sure if this will help but as soon as I read this post, something seemed to click into place.

        Your worries and yes, mine as well are about the FUTURE, which is yet to be determined. I hope that pulling myself back to the present will help in this regard as well. During both EAs my gut instinct told me that there was something very, very wrong. I’m trying to trust that instinct, that if it were to happen again, I would know.

        Like I said…..I’m off to the therapist, next week, for ME.

        My husband is a wonderful person and I sometimes wonder if that doesn’t make it even harder to make sense of it all. I have told him that I don’t believe I could go through this again.

        • Tryinghard

          SI
          I know what you’re saying. I went back to therapy do at your point and I’m glad I did. I stopped for many months but now I’m back in therapy again because of a terrible family rift with our son. Really bad right now.

          Going to the therapist is a great way to get an educated experience point of view and clarity. Sometimes I come out of there feeling as tho I’ve been through physical therapy. It’s exhausting.

          One thing you need to focus on is what you already know. You must build on it and that is what s happening today. Yes he could be lying and fooling you. But you only feel this way because of the past. It may OR may not be true.

          We are constantly examining the flip side of the coin. Which actually my therapist says she admires in me and my thought processes. There will always be a flip side, we can’t change that. It’s a known given. Now knowing the given gives you power. Instead of letting it throw you for a loop use your known given to make your decisions. And here’s the thing, you are so experienced and no longer a naive innocent you WILL know should he decide to cheat again. You will. My therapist assured me of that as well. You won’t ignore the red flags and you will see them because of your new found knowledge.

          Keep reading the literature and blogs. Keep getting support from folks like us and your therapist. You will get off that roller coaster

          • Shifting Impressions

            Thanks, Trying
            I think you are absolutely right.

    • TheFirstWife

      Great points. My issue is the long ago EA I was suspicious but that was before EAs were a form of cheating. Back then it was “ok”.

      This past affair I had no clue except I had a dream on 6/8!(how ironic it was the OWs b’day but I would not have known then). Anyway in my dream my H comes home in Julyband tells me he does not want to be married anymore.

      PS I have many many dreams that have come true.

      Anyway so did this one. I remembered how vivid and real the dream was and I started to pay attention but there was no obvious signs. Not home late. No extended business trips. No unaccountable time. No obvious lies.

      So that is my distrust. Being blindsided. And his asking for a divorce 2x in 1 week even though he was telling me how happy he was and how greater were together.

      Again it is control and my confidence that is shaken and suffering.

    • Tabs

      I am totally envious! I wish I had dreams that could clue me into reality. I had no idea my H was so desperately unhappy. By the way, I decided to read my H’s electronic journal. Talk about a roller coaster ride! The affairs started a year after my mother was diagnosed with cancer. I noticed our marriage was taking second place in my life. But my mother was dying and I knew I’d never have a second chance to spend more time with her. I don’t regret any minute of my decision. I just thought my H would understand my grief. That’s the PAST. (I hope.)

      So I need to focus on the FUTURE. My father is frail and will require more attention soon. I will be my father’s sole care provider. My fear is that things will repeat themselves. So, I laid down an ultimatum: Cheat, PA or EA, and I will leave. My husband was upset and asked why I want to get rid of him so quickly. What an ego centric answer. I had to remind him that I couldn’t go through any more pain, mentally and physically. I lost 35% of my body weight, which I still haven’t recovered from. Weight loss is one thing. But when you lose muscle mass, you open yourself up to a bunch of problems.

      Thanks everybody for your insights. You’ve proven more effective than my $160 therapist.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tabs, when I had moved away, I had a dream that my father who had passed told me that my husband was still seeing the ow, I was telling my father that no dad, he has told me he isn’t, that I need to give him time to prove himself. My father told me to just know it was not finished.
        I woke up crying, missing my dad and hearing his voice, but also having him tell me that my husband was still involved in his affair. My husband asked me what was wrong, I told him about my dream and he said, no babe, I’m not there is nothing to worry about.
        Well low and behold my father was right, he was still in his affair. I knew deep down he was, but about a month later my husband had ended his affair.
        I’ve had other dreams, and my husband actually gets spooked by them. Lol

        • Falling Ash

          Just before DDay I had a dream that my OH was having an affair. It was the latest in a long line of “infidelity” dreams. I am sure that is the reason why I looked at his phone that fateful day and discovered messages to the OW about how lovely it was meeting for lunch and that they should do it regularly. Of course what I didn’t know then was that it had been going on “irregularly” for 8years prior to that. I thought it was just starting up!

    • TheFirstWife

      Okay friends you are not going to believe this one. I swear I do not make this crap up.

      So I know in past posts I have mentioned that my H had a 3 yr EA with a girl in grad school. It only ended when I finally got so FURIOUS that he wanted to go to a party in the city at her apartment. He just did not get it. He gaslighted me for years about the true nature of the relationship. 1st time I met her I told my H to watch his back.

      That EA ended in 1998.

      Guess who just sent him an email? You got it – grad school girl. Haven’t heard from her in 17 years. Why now?

      But her message was odd. Definitely not spam. It said “hope you are ok. Please let me know”. How odd sounding.

      So my H is away and I called him. Told him about it. He had not seen it. He was upset.

      I swear you cannot make this crap up.

      Why would she email him after 17 years of no contact? Is she hoping he is available?

      Please weigh in here. I don’t want to be naive and clueless b/c I doubt my H has contacted her at all. His last EA was with someone else.

      I also don’t want to over-react, which I haven’t yet. I just kind of dismissed it.

      Looking for your perspective. Thanks.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, I would tell your husband that you do not want him making contact with this woman, that you will not go through any more deceit. To me this woman is hoping that he is available. After 17 years of no contact, I believe there is an altering motive behind it. Then again, I don’t trust like I used to, especially having my h ow contact him after 20 years of her not being in his life and she claiming she had always loved him.so I am first to say, keep her away from your husband.

        • Strengthrequired

          Get your husband to block her email….

          • Lynsey

            TFW, Don’t dismiss this! Tell your husband absolutely no contact, block her email, phone, etc. My H had an on again/off again EA with a parasitic whore who only contacted him when she needed a “sugar daddy” to pay for her expenses, buy gifts, etc. (I know this from seeing some of her past emails, but my H was too far into the affair fog to see her real motives.) This went on for about 12 years. My H was very good at deceiving until too many things began to add up for me when he became overly addicted to her. Anyway, my H’s whore kept him on a string for too long and he took the bait every time. And yes, these whores can turn up anytime. These people are selfish and only look out for themselves. I would not trust her motives and only partially trust your H.

      • Ann

        TFW
        Yes I believe there is a motive here with her trying to contact your H after 17 years. I think she is fishing to see if your H will bite. If your H loves drama he may bite, but that is just me not trusting.
        If it were my CH 17 years later, I think he would bite and not tell me since my h loves the attention and drama that goes along with the affair. But I really never realized that about him until his affairs.
        Oh, and I believe you when you say you don’t make this crap up. I know that from the OW and the e mail she wrote me. Just nuts.
        So I hope your H has the strength and does not give in and I will say a prayer for you.

    • TheFirstWife

      My H is highly upset she emailed him. And since I have his email account on my phone I know there has not been contact.

      This “friend” was on a 3 year plan to try and get my H to be with her. The last time I spoke with her she called me to ask if my H would be “allowed” (by me) to accompany her to a wedding as her date b/c she did not have a boyfriend. The whole 3 years they were in school she had no boyfriend as she was hoping it would be my H.

      He knows this looks bad (for him).

      I just want an outside opinion in case I am missing something. Her email just comes at a bad time b/c this EA was NEVER acknowledged or admitted to by him.

      He gaslighted me every step of the way. This was before the term EA was coined. And like others he believed no sex = nothing wrong.

      This EA has played a HUGE role in conjunction with his last affair. I knew this EA (from 17 years ago) was happening but I had to let it go. No proof since there was no texting then. My H saw her 4 nights a week in grad school so it was all face to face.

      My recovery from the last EA was severely impacted by this long ago affair. He has now cheated 3x – the last affair was with the same OW twice.

      So you can see my position. I trust almost no one.

      I will admit I emailed this woman pretending to be my H. I want to find out her motivation. It was a five word email.

      My H knows I did this. He understands why. Maybe I need closure or something. But she will be blocked via email soon.

    • TheFirstWife

      I am wondering if she may not be divorced and now is hoping that he is too. I’m just sayin…..kind of fishy she pops up 17 years later.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, exactly… My h ow left her h, decided to contact mine, lonely, needed help to support her family and herself, etc. my h fell for it hook line and sinker.

    • theresa

      Intuition or paranoia?
      The tone or content of an email may be a clue. Especially if there is contact between them after assuming there was “nothing to worry about” since the last episode.
      I had discoveredi an email from the AP. The content was “hi…..”. Truthfully my “should I be alarmed” bell had been ringing for a while. This message did not sound,as if they hadn’t communicated for a while. I got the feeling it was more intimate. More like a “couple” shorthand. (I had even posted here to get some opinions) guess what, She had just transferred (2 days ago) back to his department! He would have known.. And he said norhing, and was stupid enough to try to deny it.

      I got the same kick when I read your post.
      I hope I’m wrong.
      Trust yourself.

      • Strengthrequired

        Theresa, sorry you are now having to deal with the ow around your h again. I truly hope your h doesn’t fall into her trap again. My h ow is a cousin, so I will always be worried about him seeing her again.

        • Theresa

          Thanks for the thought. Unfortunately, he was the one to pursue her.
          It all boils own to opportunity and resolve. And I never held her accountable. I don’t have any animosity to her. I may think she lacks morals and integrity. But she never made any promises to me. She never lied to me, misled me, intentionally hurt me.
          He did.
          The fact that he was dishonest again (and all that word encompasses), shows his resolve to have his cake and eat it too.

          Having been betrayed by two people in your own family is horrible. I don’t know how I would deal with that..
          In being in this unenviable membership has shown me “it could be worse”. But while you’re in the thick of it, it’s hard to imagine that.

          This is the oasis. I come for support, validation, hope and resolve. And maybe to give back a little. All our stories are important, not just mine.

          .

    • pat

      Last night I went back in time. To the beginning of my life with her. She always told me she was in love with this boy down the street from her house, but he did not feel the same. We are dating now. Now she my girl friend and we are going to get M in the fall. I now think she had her FA with him before we got M. She wanted to test our love and we took a break from each other for 2-3 weeks. During that time she dated him. She told me nothing happen and they kiss and she did not feel anything. We got back together and move forward. But I now think she did not tell me everything and that was the starting point.

      I now think she must have other people in her life to fill her needs. Not always Phy. But she must bond with other people. So I now understand I cannot fill her needs by myself alone. She a people person and must be in the center of group.

    • Cindy

      It has been 4 years from my D day. He went through the affair fog and the depression etc. we have made huge progress and things were practically back to normal. I even started to trust him again which I thought would never happen in a million years. I was looking at the phone acct to see if I could get an upgrade ( haven’t looked at it in years) and guess what I saw. Yep ! She started texting him again. There was no contact for 4 years. There were hundreds and hundreds of texts. My knees actually buckled and I was short of breath. I went to his office and confronted him within 10 minutes. I was actually shaking when I was driving. Immediately he went on defensive and used all the same old excuses from 4 years ago. He told me she started texting him and she wants him back. He told me he wants nothing to do with her. Yet , he texted her back and forth for over a month before I saw it. He said he was just ” catching up”. Seriously??? For a month

    • Cindy

      I have him an immediate ultimatum. Her or me. No more games. When my first d day occurred I was completely blindsided and I lost weight , started taking better care of myself to attract him etc etc. this time I told him he was done. We blocked all her numbers as best we could and he swears he hasn’t heard a word from her. This was in June. I will NEVER EVER let my guard down again. I know that sounds ridiculous way to live but that’s where I am now

    • Cindy

      The problem now is she is a family friend. A friend of my in laws and my mother in law is dieing so this cow is using it as an excuse to get back into our families good graces. I am worried about the wake and funeral and etc. she will be there with bells on and I can just see her floating in and making a b line for my husband. I swear I will have to. Punch her. It will be like a jerry springer show. I am very worried about that. I know my hubs won’t want to cause a scene so he will be mad at me and not her. This is weighing heavily on my mind

      • Shifting Impressions

        She is more like a family ENEMY!!!! He needs to stand by you!!!

      • Theresa

        And while she is bee-lining to your husband, you should bee-line it to her car and flatten a few tires. (I lived in Manhattan. Parking spaces were sacrosanct. There were a few times that someone literally stole,my spot from under my nose. I employed this skil. Get a small stick and shove it in the pin (no damage done) of the curb side tire. Sweet.

        • TheFirstWife

          Theresa I am from NY as well. Haha on the flat tire idea.

          I LOVE the movie Waiting to Exhale. When she takes his suits and clothes and stuffs them in the Mercedes and lights it on fire – best revenge tactic ever.

          And when Whitney Houston / Savsnnah FINALLY realizes her married man is NEVER going to leave his wife and what a fool she has been – well good for her.

          So I’m my case, I would get my revenge in the divorce. Make him pay. Hit him where it hurts most. Financially right now I have the upper hand. It is called a post nup. He has no access to any $ in my name if we divorce.

          Payback is a &itch AND karma is worse.

    • Tryinghard

      Oh Cindy. Totally unacceptable. What in earth made him think it was ok to respond to her texts let alone not tell you? So glad you randomly checked. I’m at the same point you are in time and healing and this would bring me all the way back to DDay 1 emotionally and psychologically. My h would be sleeping with one eye open. He just threw whatever he accomplished both personally and for your marriage down the toilet. And for what? Stupid asshole!!

    • Tryinghard

      First Wife
      Are you absolutely certain that first “EA” wasn’t a PA? Seriously? They meet 4 x per week for how long and it never got physical in the least? Sorry, not buying it. I call bullshit!!do you really believe your husband didn’t want it to become physical? Is he that kind of man? I don’t know many men that are.

      I truly believe if he kept an “EA” from you for so long he’s keeping more about the affair from you. You don’t have all the truth about it I’m afraid. And now 17 years later she makes contact when there hasn’t been any?? 2 + 2 isn’t adding up to 4 in this case. Just sayin….

      • CBb

        You are right. They were in class 4 nights a week. She made sure shecwas in every one of his classes. Back then I had no proof so I had to drop it (for my own sanity).

        My H travels extensively for work. International & domestic. I know he could have cheated on me for years & years. Always was a possibility. But I never believed he would.

        Now I am not so sure he has been faithful all these years.

        The one from grad school I have doubts whether strictly EA or more. But it is just a detail. When this last EA developed he told the current OW about how I accused him of cheating w/ grad school girl and how he believes there is nothing wrong with having female friends. OW told me he admitted cheating w/ grad school girl. Who to believe?

        Me. I knew something was going on and I confronted him 17 years ago. Complete gaslight. At least I have validation of “something” going on.

        And believe it or not, guessvwho sent him an email 2 days ago? Grad school girl. Boy was my H upset. Could not have come at a worse time. He has and will not respond.

        Don’t worry I am not stupid. I have learned far too much from these forums.

        Thanks for your concern thoughb. I love we all look out for each other.

        • CBb

          CBb is samevascThe First Wife.

    • Cindy

      He insists the feelings were gone. He had no feelings towards her whatsoever and she was actually mad at him because he wouldn’t meet her out for drinks or anything. She is like a parasite. I know she was not to blame for the initial affair ( I didn’t marry her) , however , this time it is her fault. She is pure evil and she does things like this just to see if she can. That’s why I’m worried about the wake and funeral. She will be all over my husband and she will look at me with that evil glint in her eye. I know that sounds crazy but she is certifiable. I already told the hubby that if he gives her a second glance at funeral we are finished. He said he’s not going to make a scene ( it is his mom). I understand that and I know how he feels but I have no idea how I’m going to react after this latest bout of texts

    • Cindy

      And I also know how selfish I sound. My mother in law is dieing and I’m worried about the cow. Like seriously?? Maybe I’m certifiable. Lol.

    • TheFirstWife

      Cindy I am so sorry for you.

      Take a step back and think about his actions vs his words.

      That is what I base all decisions on. What do I see?

      I had 2 Ddays with my H and OW months apart. Secret email account and no calls or text since they knew I could see the wireless account details.

      If he did it for a month that is your first clue that he is “not over it”. How do I know? Because when the OW contacted my H to start up again for round 3, after DDay2 he never responded. No call, email, Skype, nothing.

      She got soooo mad she sent him a screw you ranting email (drunk at 2 am is no time to write an emal). But she got the message. No further contact.

      So I would be more suspicious of your H’s actions than hers. She could string herself up nude in front of your house and if your H was truly not interested he would ignore her and walk on by.

      Your H may be going through issues with the serious family medical situation. However that is no excuse to talk to the OW. Period

      Stand firm. Don’t bend. Be prepared to kick his butt when necessary. Don’t be fooled.

    • Tryinghard

      LOL indeed you can’t make this shit up!!

      So of course I worry the last AP might try to contact my husband again. Of course I worry he won’t tell me. My choice to assume that risk. And the odds are likely she has or will. And the odds are high he may choose not to tell me.

      Here’s one instance for all of you. So 40 years ago when my h went to college and I was still in high school he cheated on me with another girl. Yep he kept me on the side and dated her too. I had no clue. My BFF in high school told me. I promptly broke up with him and started dating. I was heartbroken but I was young so WTF, right? Well he broke it off with her and begged his way back. Yes it was sexual and we were intimate as well. Shocking right? And I was young, pretty and hot so no excuse there right? So we make up and get back together. He swears and promises fidelity, hhhmmm sounding like a pattern right? I’m a slow learner. Ok so college girlfriend is gone he even transfers to another university. No more contact or maybe there was. I have no real evidence there was or wasn’t

      Forty years later!!! Forty long fucking years later who sends him. FB friend request but old college girlfriend!!! 40 years later!?!?!? Well of course he wanted to choose to ignore the request. Not me!!! I sent her an answer asking her why on earth she wanted to “friend” my h on FB when they had no one and nothing in common and that perhaps I should tell HER husband that she was reaching out to her former college boyfriend!! Never heard from her again.

      So yes folks they will try to contact again. There’s no guarantee they won’t. Stay vigilant and I say intercede to great length and voracity with your interventions of their communications. Remember the power and thrill is in the secret. I bet old college girlfriend got a real thrill when she pushed send on this FB request. Not so much when she read the follow up.

    • Cindy

      I emailed the cow as well. I was so furious there was no way she wasn’t going to get some of it to. Back story – she had a high paying management job at same place for 24 years. She was fooling around with yet another married man and his wife went to her place of business and was screaming at her like a lunatic. The cow lost her job after 23 yrs. since then she has worked crap jobs for several years. She just this year got a huge management position making more money then before. I emailed her and told her if she ever talks to my husband again she will not only NOT have him she will not have her new job either because I made copies of al the text records and the texting was done during business hours. I told her I’m sure her new bosses would love to know what she does during the day. Sadly I never rcvd a response

      • Tryinghard

        Make no mistake Cindy. The OW is a wicked, evil sociopath he doesn’t have the right to even breathe the same air as you. She’s a useless waste of space on this earth. Of course she does what she does. She’s a pro. She’s a narcissist. She’s everything that is vile in this world.

        That said, she had nothing to do with your husbands actions to text her back much less keep it secret from YOU. That is all on him. Makes no difference what his feelings are or aren’t from her. He lied and deceived you again. Yes she instigated the contact but he WILLINGLY went along with the communications. He willingly and purposely did not tell you for whatever reason he rationalizes. Wrong wrong wrong and wrong.

        It would take a team of horses to drag me to that funeral. And if I had to go it would be very short. Does your mil know who she is? If she does it’s a shame on her. If it’s so important for her to be there at your expense than you really have your answer. She has no right to be there if it’s a family funeral. She’s causing trouble and everyone is letting her. Particularly your husband.

    • Cindy

      This is where it gets dicey. She was a friend of the family. She was very close to my MIL. His family knew the affair was going on and chose NOT to tel me. My mother in law who says she loves me like a daughter still talks to this woman. I have told my mother in law repeatedly that it is hugely disrespectful to me , not to mention it gives the cow a leg to stand on to lord it over me. Now my MIL is very Christian and God fearing and is genuinely a nice person. But my MIL insists that its no big deal that she continues to talk to this woman. This is why the cow will feel she has the right to attend funeral and wake. I have to be there for my kids who are taking this hard. Believe me I don’t want to be in the room with that cow

    • Cindy

      I actually feel terrible that I’m making this about me. But c’mon. How much can 1 person take

    • Cindy

      You know how the family gathers at a home between wake hours and /or after? I can guarantee she will be there. This is going to be make or break for my hubby. My kids will be there and I need to be there for them. I can’t make this about me.

    • TryingHard

      Lol CBb/ first wife. I was confused :). Well good. I’m glad you know what probably did happen. Yes we do look out for each other and I welcome the same kind of feedback.

      One of my pet peeves is when we know the damn truth and yet we try to minimize it or speckle over it. If we expect our cheaters to be honest, it is our responsibility to ourselves to be just as honest and authentic. If he tells you it’s an apple and you call it an orange because it suits your narrative what on earth do we gain or learn?? Nothing!! It puts us back to square one. And that is stupid!

      We must learn to call a spade a spade and when people tell us or show us who they are, believe them! Denial is no place to live.

      Glad your h didn’t answer her. Hopefully it sends a message to back off. I, however would have made it much clearer!! If you know what I mean:) but that’s just me

      • theresa

        TH, take a look at denial. The title was …”future politician?”. I think this child has a lot in common with my husband!
        http://youtu.be/k08w0Ob7E5I

    • TryingHard

      Cindy
      I have news for you. Your mil is not a friend of yours. She is not good for you. Don’t care about her christianess. This is NOT Christian in my eyes. If this is what Christian is I’m turning faiths! She is horribly disloyal to you and is devoid of empathy. She’s a fake!

      How old are your kids? If they are more tha 10 or 12 they don’t need your sacrifice for them. You can be there before or after the funeral. You sure as hell don’t need to go to the after the funeral party if you are sure she will be there. I’m shocked your h expects you to go. Sheesh, what’s with these people???

      And by the way yes it is about you. Why do have to put yourself out there for hurt and ridicule? Look it’s not like she borrowed a book from you and didn’t return it. She actively pursued a married man and continues to do so and that married man is your husband!!!! You are not a terrible person. You are surrounded by selfish assholes!!

    • Cindy

      You’re right. I am. Inc my husband who understands what I’m feeling but tells me he doesn’t have the right to tel his mom who to talk to. He could certainly back me up and at least let it be known ! A lot of the guilt he is feeling is because she was a family friend for years and he ruined that. He blames himself ( rightfully so). The cow doesn’t have many family members or friends ( I wonder why) and he feels guilty that his actions caused this. Which of course they did. But he has to worry about my feelings right now and stop worrying about being the ” good guy”

    • Cindy

      I have explained myself and my feelings to H. And he says ” my mom is dieing, I can’t worry about the cow ( he doesn’t say cow) right now “. Then of course I feel bad which is exactly why he said it

      • TryingHard

        Oh bullshit Cindy. We are all dying. You could be hit by a bus today and you are dead!! That’s a lame excuse. And what a cowardly card to play on his part. So trample my wife’s needs and feelings and text the OW because mom is dying?? Really?? What a chicken shit. Don’t buy it. He just likes that doormat tattoo he wants you to wear

    • TheFirstWife

      Cindy. I say go to the funeral. Stick close to your H like glue. Do not leave his side. Give her no opportunity to even attempt to speak to him.

      Your H needs you as well. Be a physical presence. And know that as if that moment you will no longer have the disrespect and issue with family.

      She is friends with your MIL. End of story. She can be friends with the SIL and BIL BUT that has nothing to do with you.

      if you don’t go to funeral it will be her opportunity to laud it over your H’s head. And she will. She will use it as a way to get the conversation going.

      This is an emotional family time. Be the rock for your family. Put on the brave face. Don’t let the crazy OW control you. YOU control her. Stand your ground. you are family. She is not.

      Your MIL is misguided and clueless. Don’t hold it against her. Deal with her ignorance by being the better person. You will be glad you did in the end.

      My therapist gave me advice. IF your marriage does not survive the affairs and lying and cheating, you will want to know at the end of the day that you gave it your all before you walked away from the marriage. So you can have a clear conscious and heart that you did your best and leave with no regrets.

      My best to you. It is a rough time and you need it. Deal with your H and his issues after the passing. Just try to be supportive to your family now. They need you and you are the rock.

    • Cindy

      And to be honest , after 4 years of no contact I wasn’t even worried when my MIL was first diagnosed. I figured cow would be there but I could handle it now. That was before I found out she wants him back. Stupid tramp

    • Cindy

      Thefirstwife. That was initially my plan. Hold my head up. We are solid. He ” chose ” me. Blah blah. Be the Rock and the smarter one. That’s my plan. However this woman will goad me and give me the evil eye. I know she will. She will purposely do something whether it be a hug or a wink or who knows what , just to get a rise out of me. I can guarantee it. So in my head I am preparing all my comebacks , my sarcastic comments , what I will wear , will I have my nails done etc etc. tell me I am not the most pathetic idiot you have ever seen

    • Cindy

      It absolutely kills me that after all this time and all of our progress as a couple that she has the ability to turn me into a whimpering sop. I am a strong person , smart , funny , a great mom , I have a ton of friends and this bitch turns me into jello. I hate that about myself

    • TryingHard

      YES!!!! That’s the Cindy I want to hear!! Good guy and $2.50 gets a cup of coffee at Starbucks! Don’t placidly go along with that fake remorse. He owes YOU and no one else. He doesn’t have to tell his mom anything. Not his responsibility. You are now. He can be kind to her but where the OW is concerned he is a no show. Regardless if he’s the one that made the mess. He did make the mess and now it’s time he clean it up in how OWN backyard. Not moms, or your kids anymore they are adults but yours and his backyard. Then he can go and build the rest. The OWs presence is a deal breaker for everyone including the sainted mother

    • TryingHard

      No you are not pathetic. And we are here to hold you up. If you go and you probably have to because undoubtedly your h will go, then look good. Don’t look at her. Tell your h he better not even talk to her even if she approaches. Put yourself between him and her and make it a shirt visit. Ugh my heart goes out to you.

      By the way Cindy. Who died?

    • Cindy

      No one died yet. My MIL was diagnosed with bone cancer so she is dieing. Since the diagnosis the cow is insinuating herself back into our lives. This is me worrying about things that haven’t even happened yet. Which is not something I would have done before the affair.

    • Cindy

      It’s like the cows last ditch effort to gain another foothold. Once my MIL dies she won’t have any access to my family at all. But seriously after 4 years with no contact she still wants him and missed him? Girl, give it up

    • Cindy

      That made me laugh out loud Theresa

    • Tryinghard

      OMG!!! Wait, I missed that part somewhere! You’re talking about if and when Mommy dearest dies and the OW will come to HER funeral, the mother of her affair partner, to go give comfort to him and his children?? Seriously?? You’re even considering letting this happen?? Oh.Hell.No

      Look here’s what you say: dear husband. When your mother dies there will be a strict and enforceable denial of her coming to the funeral and any before and after funeral parties. I will hire a private agency to keep her OUT. You will call her or text her or email her and tell her under no circumstance will she be welcome. Should she show up the cops will be called.

      Your mil, her only attachment to your family WILL BE DEAD. She won’t know if she’s there or not. She can visit her now when she’s alive all she wants and all your mil wants. Weird but whatever. You can’t control that. But once she’s gone, HELL NO. I can believe your husband in any remote light thinks this is ok, let alone you.

      Sorry but your h is using the same old tired story of “we are just friends” which keeps her involved and encouraged to think she has an in.

      I’m sorry but your h is just as culpable and maybe more so as her with his panty waist passive aggressiveness to this woman gives her the power she wants. I couldn’t live like that but each to his own hell

    • Cindy

      She won’t be coming to comfort him and my kids would never go near her. She will be coming to put on a show. And even if my hubs did email her not to come , she totally would

    • Tryinghard

      And BTW Cindy. Allowing their fathers mistress whore attend their grandmothers funeral to show condolences dies not make you a rock for your children. It makes you a fool. That’s not what rocks do. How can you be a rock for someone else when you can’t even be a rock for yourself?

      Sorry if I sound harsh. I am gob smacked at the ridiculous and audacity of this impending event. Good luck. Can’t wait to hear what really happens

    • Tryinghard

      Well she’s that brazen, vindictive and dangerous then definitely hire a security guru to usher her out. Unbelievable

    • Cindy

      Harsh is good. That’s why I come on this site. Lol. I’m NOT allowing her to come or even inviting her. Hopefully when the time comes , maybe she won’t even find out about it (doubtful). As for hiring security that would be a big No. Her children grew up with my MIL. They are like 24,22 and 14. My MIL practically raised the 14 yr old. So that’s not going to fly. I will just have to hold my head up and act with dignity and class. I’m worried she will say something to me and all that dignity will go out the window. Lol

      • TheFirstWife

        Never stoop to the cow’s level. You have class. You have what she wants. She will try to ruin YOU b/c of her jealousy.

        You are better than that.

        When you act with class and grace you show your family and others how an adult acts in terrible times.

        As an example when I was 98% sure my H was leaving me, my sister wanted to come over and kill him. Let him have it. And I told her no. We knew the OW address and name DNS everything. My sister wanted to let her have it. I said no way. We are better than that.

        I believe my H’s OW will get payback some day. Not from me. But I hope she gets a boyfriend or H and some OW does to her what she did to me. She is so crazy and emotionally wak she would never survive it.

        So Cindy my advice still stands. Hold yur head high. Don’t acknowledge the cow. Don’t look her way. Look past her if you have to. Know she will be envious of you. Know her evil ways will come back to her.

        Let her play her game. Let her put n the show. She will look foolish in the end, not you. If you don’t engage with her you will have no regrets and no be n your family can say anything about you.

        You can ban her from a luncheon or family gathering. It is your choice to do so. But a the funeral or wake you just pretend she is not there. And stick like glue to your H. Make sure she has no opportunity to chat with him AT ALL.

        Once those days are over you can then decide your next move. Stay strong and be a class act. You will be proud of yourself for it.

    • Newbie

      I found out about my H’s EA/PA around 4 months ago. It hurts so bad knowing that he took advantage of my post partum state to traipse around with this OW. I just had a baby and you go f around with another woman?!?!

      He eventually ended it with her after a few months but continued a EA with occasional sex (to make each other feel better since they were both guilty of cheating on their spouses). WTH!!! The knife in the heart for her was that we got pregnant again. I think that’s when she knew he was never going to leave me even though he told her that.
      What kind of man cheats on his post partum and then pregnant again wife?! I feel like I will never get over that part.

      Those of you who are further in the journey- does thinking about the affair ever get better- where it doesn’t hurt your heart as much or you don’t get so emotional about it anymore? My anger still rises up a lot but I’m learning to stop myself before I get into a rage.

    • Cindy

      Newbie. My dday was over 4 years ago. When i found out I thought my world as I knew it had ended. I cried for months. A profound sadness. I can remember sitting in the porch thinking that that awful sadness would never go away , how can I get past this, what have I done wrong etc etc. in that moment I could not fathom a life where I didn’t cry every day or feel sad It was incomprehensible to me. But it does get better. Trust me. You have to realize that you were in absolutely NO way at fault. It’s a problem with them , with their character, their morals , an addiction, maybe even something that got out of control and they don’t know how to fix. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you and nothing you could have done ” better”. When my dday happened I lost weight , took better care of myself, cooked and cleaned more , tried to be the woman I thought would make him happy. I cried , pleaded and even begged at one point for him to stop. Looking back, I am not proud of who I became . However, after 4 years I can say I am happy again , I feel empowered again , I’m not walking on eggshells etc. somewhere along the way I really started working on me and what makes me happy. If it happens again, I can honestly say that I am a much stronger person and would handle it quite differently and it wouldn’t destroy me. Have faith. It looks really bleak right now , but you can get through this

    • Cindy

      The OW in our life keeps popping back in as she was a family friend that won’t go away. And while it makes me nervous and unsure of how hubby will react to seeing her or vice versa, the profound sadness and depression that I felt is gone. I’m stronger and coming from a different place now. You will get there

      • blueskyabove

        Cindy,

        You seem to be having a lot of confusing emotions now.  I just wanted to let you know that I recognize the temporary, insane thoughts that are currently in charge of your life right now.  After 4 years and a lot of forward progress in rebuilding your marriage it can be unsettling to discover the power we still allow the other person.  I have no doubt this is weighing heavily on your mind.  No one in your situation would willingly want to lose control if they were concerned about being confronted by their spouse’s former affair partner.

        You shared a number of emotions that have left you feeling disappointed in your thoughts about yourself, while expressing an immense fear about the future.  After reading your comments it appears you feel as if you have no recourse in what will likely transpire at the funeral and I’m going to guess this throws you right back into the feelings you had right after D-Day.  I’m going to suggest to you that it doesn’t have to be this way.  I’m also going to suggest that you take your focus off the other woman and what she will or won’t do, and place it on what will benefit You and Your family during this upcoming event.  In other words, decide right now how you are going to act.

        See yourself acting with dignity and grace.  Know you are setting an incredibly magnificent example for your children who might one day need to remember it for themselves.  Give your husband one more reason to remember not only why he asked you to marry him in the first place, but also why he wanted to stay with you.  There is a reason for both of those choices he made.  Instead of fearing what might happen, look on it as an opportunity to excel!

        Practice Gratitude.  Daily.  Write it down in a journal if that helps.  Do you know that gratitude will give you freedom from suffering and struggle – in an instant?  That’s its purpose.  Actively seeking reasons to be grateful steers your mind in a different direction.  The egoic mind is looking for conflict.  That’s it’s purpose.  If you’re struggling with something in your life, then it’s happy.  It’s up to you to decide which way you want to live.

        For all you know, Cindy, the other woman might die before your MIL dies.  None of us has any guarantees in life.

    • Beckyb2

      You have the legal right to have a peace warrant served on her to keep her away from places you frequent . She would not be allwed within 500 feet of you and wouldn’t her eyes fall out being served by the police. Karma can always use help.

    • TryingHard

      I guess if you are forced to eat another shit sand which, you may as well be dignified and elegant and don’t forget grateful as it’s fed to you!!

      So I say, hell yeah get the mani and buy yourself a new outfit for the festivities!!

      Good luck to you Cindy.

      • TheFirstWife

        kill ’em with kindness (while looking good ) while you are at it.

    • Strengthrequired

      Cindy, I agree with tfw, be the better person, but don’t let the ow have a chance to get near your husband. Hang off him like glue, be affectionate to him, and show the ow, that her place is not with your husband. Show her where she does not belong, let it be uncomfortable for her to see you and your husband together and smile.
      The other day I had to attend a gathering which i was expecting to see the same women that treated me like I didn’t exist the week before. Funny thing happened, only one of the women turned up, so she was alone. Tbh, I actually felt bad for her, she looked bored. I let it go for a few hours, and I kept thinking I should be nice to her, that’s just me, but then I would think, why the hell should I after how she treated me. In the end, I asked her if she was ok, blah blah blah. I think she actually wanted to talk more, but my husband wanted to leave, so we left.
      As I said to my husband that night, I find it so hard to be mean I felt like I needed to make sure she was ok.
      Now if she was the ow, and I see her at a family function, although I have no good feelings about her, I have this feeling if I saw her all sad, lonely etc, knowing me I would struggle not asking her if she was ok. How ridiculous is that? After all she has done to me, I’m worrying that I would feel bad for her, have to make sure that she was ok. Me just saying that feels strange to me, especially how I feel towards her.

      • TheFirstWife

        I was in the same boat. When the OW appeared suicidal and all on her blog I called her and spoke with her.

        Believe it or not I would have felt bad if something happened even though it was not my fault and I had nothing to do with it.

        And how did she repay my kindness? I never said one unkind word to her. I needed her to give me answers and help me figure out why my H was acting crazy. She apologized and I accepted it.

        She bashed me for a year in her blog. Called me names, mocked me and ridiculed me for trying to keep my family together. She actually goes not know if we are together or not. She can only assume. I never revealed my situation to her.

        She posted nasty hurtful things.

        At least I can look at myself in the mirror and know I acted with class. And compassion. Better than she did.

        • Strengthrequired

          Tfw, I don’t want to stoop to their level, if there is anything I can look myself in the mirror and say, is that I’m not a liar, a cheater and I don’t go out breaking other people’s marriages. I would like to say that I wouldn’t take pleasure out of seeing the ow feeling the pain she put me and my children through, yet I’m not sure I could say that because you know deep down, I think I may feel that bit of that ah ha karma has hit her moment, one that is well deserving for her actions, and brought upon herself, not me.. I would probably think woohoo finally. Maybe For the ow i would just feel pity for her, because she brought it all on herself, and at the time she did what she did, she didn’t care about the price she paid for trying to break a family, that in itself is pitiful.
          I think feeling sorry for this woman the other day, had me think about how I would react if I saw the ow in that way, yet there is a difference, the woman I saw, didn’t try to steal my family and break me in the process, unlike the ow. So maybe that’s why I was able to feel sorry for this woman, and had me question how I would be towards the ow.

    • TryingHard

      Have you never heard the story about the scorpion and the frog?? Seriously, Google it.

      She’s just being she!! Biblically speaking it’s called “casting your pearl before swine”!!

      What do you care if they are happy or sad or suicidal or not?? Not your problem and besides what on earth can you do to help them? Nothing that’s what. They were effed up before your husband’s met them and they are still effed up.

      Whew, being too nice is certainly NOT one of my problems. Screw those people. I HOPE they are miserable. Matter of fact what can I do to make you more miserable 🙂

      Save you goodness for those that deserve it and there are PLENTY.

      Sorry but no Assholes get nothing from me but a cold, uncaring shoulder. It’s a waste of time and definitely casting your pearls to swine!!

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, gosh I love you, lol….. You are the best… I haven’t seen the ow yet, and yes I would love to see her miserable, yet I do worry I would feel sorry for her, lol. I just hope when that day comes, I don’t feel anything, nothing at all….. How nice would that be, to just feel nothing.

    • Cindy

      I will try very hard to remain classy and a pearl no matter what happens. Feel sorry for her? No way ! I can’t even imagine 1 instance that that would ever happen in this lifetime. No matter what happened to her , that is not a feeling I could ever conjure up. I would just like to get past the absolute hatred and get to a place of nothing just for my own well being. It’s been 4 years and I can honestly say I have never in all my life hated someone more than I hate her

    • Strengthrequired

      Candy, absolutely, that feeling of feeling just nothing, that is where I would like to get to. Yet getting there with class.

    • TryingHard

      You guys crack me up.

      That feeling of feeling nothing?? That’s called dead!!

      No thanks. His actions killed a lot for me but dead? Hell no

      I hate no one as well but the OW. I hate. I could care less what happens to her and when bad happens to her, well let’s just say I’m no stranger to schadenfreud:). Sucks to be her. Meanwhile I’ll save my nice and pity for those deserving of it.

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, lol, no not the feeling of nothing with everything else, just towards the ow, lol. Now your the one that cracks me up. I love the way you view things. Out of everything that has happened to my life, I’m glad I’ve come across you. Lol.

        • Strengthrequired

          Ohh and th, it certainly felt like I was going to lay down and die when dday hit, but I dint either.

    • TryingHard

      You too SR:). You are a sweetie:)

    • Falling Ash

      Cindy – I can totally relate to hatred for the OW. With regards to your MIL’s wake, I am in the “stick to your H like glue/hold your head up/ignore her completely” camp. She is not even worthy of your contempt.

      I have never met my OH’s OW but I have seen several photographs. In all of the posed ones on social media she has this coy, simpering, yet knowing smile. I will never be able to forget that this smile was one that “inspired” him to write “Despite your smile making me feel that life has a reason” and “A smile can still break this cynical shell”. Makes me want to throw up!

    • antiskank

      TH – I so wish I could have some of your attitude!! I absolutely love your no nonsense approach. I tend to be more like SR regarding wishing evil on others. I heard this week that my H’s OW has been having difficulties withe her son – drugs, arrests, charges, etc. For a brief moment I thought about the possibility of karma, but immediately I felt bad for her. That is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
      I would have to admit that I still despise her and always will but still place most of the blame on my H. She isn’t worth my time so don’t waste much thought on her. That’s probably easier to say because I don’t have to deal with her socially. She was originally a friend of my son’s so if they ever renew their friendship, I may be getting some pointers from you!

    • TryingHard

      Antiskank
      I love SR. She is the gentlest of souls!!! And you know what down deep so am I but don’t tell anyone:)

      As for the OW. I am pretty sure you don’t possess the abilities of a genie in a bottle. I doubt seriously you have magical wishes. Whether or not you wished her problems on her has no bearing. What’s more, you have every right to wish misery on her. That’s your silent revenge.

      As to her having problems with her son? Big shock there right? Yes, it’s sad this young man is choosing the wrong path, hhhmmm like mother like son???, but it is not shocking given the horrible example set by the mother. You don’t know what went on behind closed doors with the raising of that son. The mother is a liar and an entitled cheater, borderline personality disorder, narcissist, even maybe a sociopath, who knows. We do know she is at the very least one of these things. You think those are good qualities for raising children? And what about the father in all this? Sounds like this poor kid didn’t have a chance from the very beginning!

      No you didn’t wish it on her but do you think she gave one iota of caring thought toward you or YOUR children when she was sleeping with your husband? Do you think she even gave any thought to her own children when she was running around acting like a common whore? I’m going to go out on a limb and say clearly, NO. So why on earth would you waste your time giving this useless person any of your pity? Do you think she even cares or would change if she knew you had pity for her? Again, NO. So why waste any thought or energy on her.

      Hey there is NO gold metal at the end of all this for you good heartedness towards the person who was eager to facilitate your biggest heartbreak and misery. I’m not wasting my time with it and frankly I have better people to help and feel pity for.

      When the OW in my life came down with terminal cancer, no the bitch isn’t dead YET, it was news a lot of people wanted to let me know of. I think mostly to see my reaction. Well I did not feign any kind of compassion or pity. I was not sad in the least. I got a lot of that “I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy too”, I think because people might think it will bring THEM bad luck if the expressed it. I would laugh and say I never wished cancer on her, I wished a Mack truck would run her down!! My wishes are definitely NOT powerful!

      She will die a painful death from this cancer. I hear she’s in a lot of pain now. The cancer is eating all her organs. Gross, but not sad for me! She felt no pity for me when I landed in the psyche ER two days after DDay. Nope not one bit. Matter of fact she made dinner for my h and they had sex that night!!! Pretty sure they didn’t even give me another thought. She had no pity of me when my husband and I were trying reconcile and all she could do was council him not to reconcile and pulled every trick in the book to try and reel him back in her web. She just kept going after what SHE wanted. So yes, in her case Karma has been a bitch but only because she is.

      I don’t sit around and think “ooo I can’t wait till that bitch dies” but trust me when she does I will be raising a glass to ME!!

      Then again I could be hit by a Mack truck tomorrow 🙂

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, ohh I’m blushing, lol. Takes a good soul to know one.
        I have to say, I do agree with you th, the ow in my h life couldn’t wait to try and destroy me, she kept on trying her many ways at keeping my husband and getting rid of me, one trick after the other. I think even now, if I was to die, she would be the first one dancing on my grave and then feeling like she can have her prize, my husband and children. So I agree, I was definately not in her thoughts, nor were my children, upon me giving her repeated requests to leave my family alone. Yet I will never forget what she put my two eldest through having them see their dad in a romantic pose with her and a flower inbetween them on her wall, that was when they first found out.
        So yes, definately no morals, it was just a game to her and the casualties left in her wake did not concern her.
        even pleading her to lead as a good example for her children, especially her daughter, yet that didn’t work either.

    • TryingHard

      You know what Antiskank? Feel sorry for this poor son of hers. That’s someone deserving of pity and kindness and empathy. Not his vapid, soulless, morally bankrupt mother.

      That’s a pity with which I can get on board !

    • Cindy

      Hahahahahahaha. Love it. I told my hubby I wouldn’t spit on her if she was on fire. Oh and The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. The cows daughter ( I think she’s 22) is going out with a married man too. Unbelievable. !!

      • TryingHard

        LOL Cindy–wouldn’t swerve to keep from hitting her with my car!

        Oh brother, it runs in the family huh??

        There are children’s cancer wards all over this country filled with people on thousand times more deserving of heartfelt pity.

        This ain’t Calcutta and I am NOT Mother Theresa, not even close!

        • Strengthrequired

          Th, before I decide whether I want to do counselling to help others, have been thinking that maybe I wouldn’t be good at it, not sure why, so I have been thinking of volunteering at the hospital with women that are grieving a loss of pregnancy/child. I have been thinking that if I start there, then maybe I would feel like I’m doing some good in this world, and actually feel like I can be a good counsellor. I’m still not sure, really what I want to do, my youngest starts school next year, so maybe I will know soon what it is I am meant to do with my life, instead of just mother and wife.

          • Tryinghard

            SR
            I think you would be great at counseling. I don’t know what your educational background is or what the requirements are at your hospital but I definitely think this would be your calling. Your are such a kind gentle empathic person. I say start looking into it

            You know there are many places to help. We have women’s shelters here call Oasis and it’s a shelter for women and children to escape physical and mental abuse from men. These women leave with nothing. Nothing but the clothes on their and their children’s backs. They are always looking for volunteers to help. Not all direct counseling but at least helping.

            When I was in the months after DDay my lawyer forbid me from getting a job. I needed something to do to be needed and keep my mind off all the drama. We have a large major children’s hospital in my neighboring city and I applied and went through the screening process as a volunteer.

            Then the whole reconciliation process started and my h asked e to come back to work in our business. So between work, reconciliation , marriage counseling , grand babies I’ve had to put my volunteering on hold. Heck I’m tired!!!

            Anyway I would love LOVE volunteering at that hospital doing anything, ANYTHING to help the children and their families. I’m actually scaling back my work load so that I can squeeze some time in maybe next year to do that volunteer work. I would feel so useful and appreciated. I think it would be personally fulfilling.

            I say go for it SR!! I think you’d be great and appreciated too:)

            • Strengthrequired

              Th, thankyou for your kind words, I would like to think that I was made for this world for a purpose. To help those that are going through what I have experienced. As a young child my sister was kidnapped, I was raised with a blind father, I have had several miscarriages and have felt the sheer pain and loss, I have watched one of my babies at 9 months of age fight for her life on life support feeling helpless, unable to help her, I have had my youngest in nicu, after birth, and have had both of my youngest children at paediatricians since birth, being told during pregnancy that they may have Down’s syndrome, poor growth and weight resulting in low birth weights. Thankfully they are perfectly normal, just very petite, but fiesty little ones. Then my husbands affair, the one thing I felt I could never get through, yet somehow that strength I needed was found. So I wonder, why would someone go through so much, experience all this depression etc, and it not be for a reason for the great of good. So I wonder is it my calling, because why else have I endured so much, when I can say to someone going through something I have, that I understand how you feel.
              I remember when I was only in about year four, and our school had us go to a disability centre for children, I remember thinking back then how I would have loved working with these children when I am older. I remember how beautiful those young children were, how nice they were. I remember how they loved our small Christmas play we did for them, and how all of us in my class loved seeing them smile.
              So here I am looking back on everything, trying to figure out what my purpose in life is meant to be, and it keeps going back to helping people.

      • TheFirstWife

        Are you kidding? The cow’s daughter is as stupid as her mother?

        Wow is that sad.

        The last conversation I had with OW I asked her who in her family knew about her affair. She said her mom knew. So I asked her what her mom said. She said that her mom was OK with the affair and just wanted her to be happy.

        I said well your mom is more tolerant b/c my mom would not approve and would have a few choice words to say to me.

        So ladies I think that some parents set the wrong values. As long their choices make them happy they rationalize it is ok. And that is why affsirs are pervasive today. No morals, no decency, no right or wrong values, as long as it serves their purpose it is ok.

        I hope when the cow’s daughter gets dumped she will wake up and realize her mommie dearest is wrong about something. Maybe we should out them on Facebook (ha ha ha)

        • Strengthrequired

          Tfw, my h ow’s family, her parents and siblings were all involved in my demise. They supported her breaking my family, even held an engagement party for them, telling my h that he had to protect her name. Nice hey

          • TheFirstWife

            Oh my freakin’ word!

            Engagement party? Someone would be dead if that were me!

            I am just not that nice!

            The crap you had to endure. So sorry for that.

            Wow! Dumbstruck ……,,,

            • Strengthrequired

              Tfw, my husband went to visit, and there was a party going on, they told him it was an engagement party for him and their daughter because if he wanted to hang around her they had to be engaged, to protect her name.
              This was when they were overseas, I had no clue, didn’t even know she was there with him.
              Of course on their return, my husband didn’t want to tell me what happened, yet the ow had someone call me to tell me, she thought it would end us. We did seperate for a month, he also told me, that he didn’t tell me about the engagement because it didn’t mean anything to him, that he was told he had to protect her name, so he just went along with it.
              Apparently he got very upset when I found out, but I guess not upset enough to stay away from the ow, it carried on for a bit over a year.

          • Tryinghard

            An engagement party while he’s still married??? Are you freaking kidding me?? What his current wife and children were just pesky annoyances and certainly wouldn’t be on the invited list?

            Ugh these people are a special kind of stupid aren’t they?

            • Strengthrequired

              Yes, an engagement party forced onto my husband, I believed it was planned by the ow and her family, throwing my h into the deep end.
              Yes, it didn’t matter to that family that my husband had a wife and children waiting for him at home, they just wanted my husband to be with their daughter, to make her happy. I still find it very hard to come to terms with.

            • TryingHard

              And don’t even try to come to terms with that crap because it is so ridiculously absurd!! Protect her name? How about teaching your daughter not to sleep with married men for starters? Since when does happiness trump good morals? These people are freaks!!!

            • Strengthrequired

              Ty, yes they are, it’s hard to fathom that this is the family I married into. Yet I did. I believe they believe they are upstanding people, who are godly people and that God brought my h and their daughter together, so why would a little wife and children be a reason to stop their union, just ignore the fact that he is married with children just a minor glitch in details.

    • antiskank

      I don’t know how you do it but you guys just make me smile every time I read your posts!! Thank you:) I love your insight and advice. Bring on the Mack truck!

      • TryingHard

        Hey Antiskank. Maybe I should get my CDL and buy a Mack truck. I could take an ad out on Craig’s list “got a nasty cheating whore in your life? Call me. I’ll flatten her like a pancake!!” Kind of a Mack truck driving Dexter ridding the world of nasty whores!!

        Hey I think I’m on to something:). My children’s hospital volunteer work may have to be put on hold:). I think I have a higher calling

    • Cindy

      The cows kids , her ex ( who cheated on her) her mother and her relatives all knew about my husband. The whole family is whacked. She was so devastated when her own husband cheated on her she cried for weeks and then she went and did it to me. Stupid cow. She had a new boyfriend like a week after dday and guess what. Karmas a bitch because he cheated on her too. Apparently she ain’t all that

      • TheFirstWife

        Boy do you know the enemy.

        This is like something out of a movie.

        Now it makes sense why she contacts your H bs he has no morals, brains, dignity or self respect. And he is the only one that gives her any attention.

        No one else wants her. You are right she ain’t all that.

    • TryingHard

      SR
      You’ve indeed been through it and underservingly so. I think you are on the right path. You have a lot of love and understanding to offer to people less fortunate. I hope you follow through with this idea. I think it would be great for you and everyone else.

      If there were ever a husband on this site id like to throttle it would be yours. Yep punch him right in his stupid nose for treating you with such disregard after all you guys have been through!! Good thing you’re down under and too far for me to get to him:)

    • Strengthrequired

      TH, I was lucky to have been raised by great parents, ones that were good and kind, my father may have been blind but he was very skilled and intelligent, he was very much a family orientated man too, so I grew up everyday with him around. He never took anything for granted. He loved being around us. I am glad my dad was not around when my husband chose to treat me the way he did.
      As for being undeserving, I don’t think anyone deserves to be cheated on, it is just cruel and it hurts so many people not just the bs.
      You know, I think if you were here it wouldn’t have made a difference with my h at the time, there were friends who were trying to talk sense into him back then, and really it did nothing, he was too far gone and focused on how deserving he was and how deserving the ow was for them to be with each other, and how undeserving I was for him not to. You know how they seem to think we were the ones that had something wrong with us and give themselves that lame excuse that ” I thought you didn’t love me anymore”.
      At the start of dday, I thought I wouldn’t be able to make another day, at times I wished for it to be years later, so I wouldn’t feel so bad anymore, and here I am now, years later and not feeling so bad anymore. Still hugely disappointed, still amazed at the audacity of the ow and her family, yet so grateful I have made it through the worst.

    • Beckyb2

      I’m having really bad family problems nothing can change it nothing can make this better my 31 year old son has cystic fibrosis he has been in the hospital all but 3 weeks and 3 days this whole year he is dying. His sisters and brothers aren’t taking it well either. My son was cheated on by his wife while he has been fighting for his life she was busy having a sexting / online cheat with what she thought was a 20 year old she is 34 but it turned out she was cheating with a 16 year old from Europe /London ? She hasn’t been charged but it could happen not what any one needs not what my son needs to deal with . My son was told in August no transplant center will do a transplant his hope was ended his world was deliberately destroyed by his serial cheater wife my son is dying and pardon the term his wife/whore is an immature attention whore she called whining about poor her she has to go to work two days a week and poor poor her she hasn’t been the mother she used to be telling me my son had been trying to come home this week then he had another major lung bleed so here she is stuck with a sick kid at school and she was at work she’s upset about her her her not once did she express concern for her husband my son just whining about poor poor her argh truly the most selfish self entered mentally arrested at some teen age and she has no clue how she has negatively affected my sons mental and physical health . I am at my wits end I seriously need a long break from daily life and death and idiotic drama queens and kings . Please keep my 7 other children in your prayers our 16 year old isn’t handling this well and neither is my 18 year old daughter she has cystic fibrosis so this is just too much sometimes. I’ve been living this life and it sucks the happiest and fun things right out of life .

    • Strengthrequired

      Becky2b, I’m so sorry for what you and your family are going through, especially your poor son. How terribly sad. Your son deserves better than this wife he is married to, what a terrible thing she has been doing to your son, no morals whatsoever. I will keep you and all of your children in my prayers, during this heartbreaking time. Please take care.

    • Beckyb2

      During my husbands first year of cheating he became uninvolved with our children they became in his words a pain in his ass and not his problem to deal with and that has pretty much been his role . Our children cry on my shoulder they go to him like he is their bank of Dad he has no close emotional relationship with anyone ever. Makes this part of life harder

    • Strengthrequired

      Beckyb, my husband became uninvolved with our children too, he spent more time with the ow and her children than he did ours. He thought that seeing our children for luckily 39 minutes a day was enough. When he moved out at the start of the affair (for me. Dday) he didn’t come everyday to see them. He does not believe that he wasn’t spending much time with them. Thought he was doing a wonderful job being a father to them.

    • Fragments of Hope

      Beckyb I just wanted to add my thoughts and support to everyone else’s. What you are dealing with and have dealt with is just overwhelming. I feel for you in this heartbreak. It seems that when the going gets tough in life, some people just become selfish, can’t cope and instead of reaching out to those in need become completely narcissistic. You’ve been carrying, holding and uplifting others even in the midst of your own pain. I wish you strength, you must feel shattered but you should be proud of yourself.

    • theresa

      Cindy, how much angst are you creating for yourself by assuming worst case scenarios? I’ve given away too much time in my head to this. It’s like giving away control, makes you feel helpless. But you’re not helpless.
      I,have been trying to isolate the triggers. Take care of today’s events. Orchestrate this scene, you are writing the script. Make sure your husband knows his lines. Practice your own lines.
      Write a script that has only one one role for you and your husband, regardless of her role. No matter what she does. There is only one script.
      Make her involvement be no more than of a pesky gnat. No matter what she does. You are the director.
      You can not control your feelings, but you can control your reactions. So acknowledge your feelings but stick to your lines.
      Maybe you can see yourself with a fly swatter. She’s that gnat. If she tries to come in for a bite at you and/or your husband and /or your children, what should you do with the fly swatter? Swing away? Or walk away, without any acknowlegement. It’s just a gnat.

    • theresa

      Gotcha! (Previously posted)

      I forget the source,
      Husband and wife in divorce court. He is accused of having an affair. And he won’t come clean . He is testifying that there was no a0ffair. The wife’s lawyer proceeds to ask a series of specific questions and he denies or justifies or does not recall, in response.
      Where were you on this date?
      Business meeting in Ohio
      Not in Boston?
      Oh wait, I forgot, the meeting location had changed to Boston.
      Where you at the xxxxx hotel?
      No. Oh right, went to meeting there
      What did you do after the meeting?
      I had dinner in my room
      Did you go to the bar?
      Oh, stopped for one drink and left
      Did you meet anyone at the bar? (Can you hear it coming?)
      Oh yeah, Just a few of the other people at the meeting
      Did you leave with a woman.?
      No.
      Did you have someone with you coming and going to the airport?
      No….oh wait I walked her to the cab stand.
      Please look at these pictures.
      Who is the woman in the photo, at the bar, walking to your room?
      Why did you lie?
      I didn’t know you had pictures.

      http://youtu.be/k08w0Ob7E5I

    • antiskank

      Completely off topic… Has anyone seen the Gwen Stefani video for her new song “Used to Love You”?

      It is interesting in light of her recent divorce announcement. I may be seeing it all wrong but it hit some triggers for me. She begins with the the pain and disbelief that he’s gone, realizing that she thought she was the best thing that ever happened to him, thinking that he had loved her – moving on to hating him, knowing she was the best thing to happen to him, and disbelief that she once loved him.

    • Beckyb2

      My 31 year old is dying today. In reading all the prayers and comments I stumbled on a shit pile my exnonfriendsluttywhore felt her comment was needed pissed me off to the point I responded and told her to leave my family alone we didn’t need or want . I said go to hell and leave my whole family alone. No more comments from the peanut gallery.. I hate this day I hate whores and I wish my son wasn’t dying

      • TryingHard

        Beckyb2

        I am so sorry. My prayers and heart are with you. I hate this day too for you. Of all the horrible things people endure in life, losing a child at any age is the worst. I am so, so sorry and I am sending you loving prayers that God shows you and your family his Mercy.

        Also, good for you for unloading on her. I hate her for you, so don’t spend any more precious time or energy doing it. I got your back sister 🙂 I will bet the whole Emotional Affair Journey clan will hate her for you too so you don’t have too!!

        Just love your son while he’s here with you.

      • TheFirstWife

        I am so sorry for you and your family. It is awful some people are so rude and obnoxious they would interfere with your family at such a critical time.

        My prayers are with you and your family. Your EA journey family wishes you peace.

        • Strengthrequired

          Becky2b, i am sending to you my love and prayers, for you and your family. It is a terribly sad day for you all today, but know we are all thinking of you here today.
          I for one can not believe the nerve of this ow, she must be delusional to think that her input would be well received. Good on you.. But as th said, forget about her, she is not worth it, spend this time with your son. Please take care… I am thinking of you and your family.

      • Doug

        We’re so sorry BB2. Our prayers are with you.

    • Beckyb2

      Thank you all for the kind support. This morning at 12:40 am surrounded by a dozen people who love Joshua held him hugged him kisses him and told him to fly high to breathe deep and let go of the pain . His almost 32 year struggle to breathe in this world ended as he lived a struggle to let go. Monday was his older brothers 34 th birthday he fought to not die on his brothers birthday he won ! Thank you for your help .

      • Strengthrequired

        Beckyb2, my deepest sympathies to you and your family. May god fill you and your family with love and strength to get through your grief, from your precious loss. How my heart breaks for you. Please take care and know I am thinking of you.

    • Antiskank

      Beckyb2, I am so very sorry that you have lost your son. You must be incredibly strong to endure all that you are dealing with now. My thoughts are with you.

    • theresa

      I can not imagine losing a child. This is an insurmountable loss. I hope there is a day when you can look back and feel him smile. This is what you hold on to. The pure joy of loving those around us. Feeling just one smile.
      The strength a parent must have when knowing their child will die is beyond my imagination. I think God has a special place for those who care for them, nurture them. That try to give them joy while they are here. Isn’t it amazing how much compassion the dying have? How often their last wishes are those for others? He’s in God’s hands. He left you with his undying love.

    • Rachel

      Becky b2,
      I am so sorry to hear the loss of your son.
      My thought are with you and your family.

    • Laura

      Why does no one talk about the positive side of affairs? The negatives are definitely there, but there are positives as well.

      I have been the OW twice, neither one was planned. The first was a longstanding, multiyear emotional affair with my boss. We were deeply in love. It was very difficult for each of us and led to a “break-up” that neither of us wanted, but which was forced by an unexpected move for his wife’s job. That was many years ago and we are now distant friends, but it was tortuous to get to this point. I wouldn’t recommend that kind of affair to anyone (he was married with small kids, I am not)

      But I have recently found myself in a physical affair with a colleague at work who is married and 20 years older than me (he is mid 60s, I am mid 40s). He has been married 30 years, most of which have been unhappy. In fact, his wife moved to another state 5 years ago for her job and they see each other at most once a month. He had an affair 20 years ago with a woman he loved deeply and has stayed in touch with her, seeing her twice a year. His wife has never found out and he still considers leaving his wife for this woman (he didn’t do it then because his children were small and he’s a very committed dad.)

      I didn’t go looking for this. In fact, we worked together closely for over two years before the thought of something more with him even occurred to me. He is much, much older. But at a dinner we both admitted to our other affairs and suddenly we felt connected. We have slept together a few times, all of which has been a surprise. We can’t even always have sex….the unexpected problem of having an affair with a man in his 60s. But we are emotionally, intellectually, and physically connected.

      This is not a long term relationship. I would never ask for him to leave his wife. In reality, his battle is whether he stays with his wife or leaves her for his longterm lover. But interestingly, his fling with me is making him look at his relationship with his wife in a way he hasn’t for years. He thought all the guilt in his relationship with me would be towards his lover, but in fact it drove him to re-examine his relationship with his wife. He has been to visit her every weekend for 6 weeks, since we first slept together, the most time he has spent with her in years

      What do I get out of it? He is a smart, handsome, sophisticated gentleman who is kind to me and wonderful in bed. I work a ridiculous number of hours and don’t have a lot of time to date. In fact, before he and I started being physical it had been 4 years since I had had sex (what really happens when you are single and 40 and NOT slutty). He makes me feel sexy and desired and young. And I love our connection

      I have encouraged him to get to the bottom of this split between his wife and his lover. Make a decision after 20 years and truly be with one of them. I’m sure I will feel a little hurt when I finally lose him, but neither one of us is planning on falling in love. The thing that is amazing to me is that our relationship may be the catalyst that brings him back together with his wife

      I felt enormous guilt in my first affair, I don’t in this relationship.

      • TheFirstWife

        I wonder if you believe your web of delusional lies.

        Congrats on stealing – you have been a world class thief. Stealing another man’s time and attention and emotions from his wife and kids.

        You sound smart but in reality you are too dumb to realize your “man” is not being honest. He is not so unhappy he got a divorce. He is not so miserable to use his kids as an excuse. He is not so STUPID that he could not make a divorce situation work if he really wanted to.

        You are just not savvy enough to believe the crap your “married men” tell you.

        Reality – my H planned a fabulous 25th wedding anniversary for is a few years ago in the midst of his affair. HE planned it on his own. He appeared perfectly happy. He did nice things for me. I am not some old and boring shrew as you probably believe or are led to believe. We, as a sisterhood of wives, generally love our H and care about them. Are there bad wives? Yes. But still no excuse for cheating.

        I hope some day you come out of your fog and realize you have been a thief for most of your adult life. I would appreciate you not trying to help my marriage in any way. I can take cate of my problems without your help.

    • Cindy

      You felt enormous guilt for your first affair and then gave it another shot with another married man? You aren’t the catalyst that is bringing him back to his wife. That is your rationalization. He never left his wife. He may have had young children during his first affair , however , those kids are now grown, his wife works in another state and he is still married to her. He doesn’t want to leave his wife. I will never understand how any other woman can say they are deeply in love with another woman’s husband. How can you deeply love a man that doesn’t give 100% to either of you? Yes , the sex might be fun , the dinners great, pillow talk exciting etc … But the bottom line is he is married. Of course he is going to tel you that you have a connection or he has feelings for you or he’s not happy at home! If he told you he loved his wife and was never going to leave her would you have sex with him? My husband had a mid life crisis and ultimately an affair. The OW told me that my husband loved her , wanted a life with her etc. I told her ” if he wanted a life with you , he would be with you ” and ” would you have slept with him if he said he just wanted some mid life sex”

      • TheFirstWife

        Spot on!!!!

    • TryingHard

      OMG. “Laura”, that’s the name you’re using today:). I was JUST thinking of you the other day and how you haven’t posted since you decided to “go dark “.

      I love it when you post. You stir such lively discussions. You must have nerves of steel to come here and post what you do! You have no idea how much you validate my beliefs about OWs when you post. I really appreciate it!

      So no date last night and you decided to troll BS websites? Oh well a girl has to get her kicks somewhere right??? How’s the job going? I hope you’ve settled into your new neighborhood by now and have met lots of nice new friends. I guess they were all too busy for you last night?

      Lol I swear I have ESP this kind of stuff happens all the time to me. Weird right?

    • Cindy

      You stated you are 40 something. You mean to tell me in 30 years you couldn’t find your own man? A man that would give you 100%? It doesn’t matter how many crazy hours you work , if you have time to be with someone else’s man , you have time to find your own. I’m not trying to blast you because it took courage to write what you did. But I do think you probably have some really bad self esteem issues going on. You settle for 2nd best and less than 100% from a man and justify it by saying he’s attractive and good in bed and you work long hours? Yes , my hubby had an affair (mid life crisis) and yes it devastated me beyond belief. But he was In It for the sex. Period. We have a history together. Kids , business, family, deaths , births, holidays , day to day life , etc. he had sex with a desperate whore who gave it up willingly and then cried when it was over. How can you sleep with a man for a couple hours or text or have an online affair and then claim deep love? Deep love is the day to day drudgery and the accomplishments and the achievements and the family and the history and the bond you can only get from direct day to day contact. Not a couple of texts or rolls in the hay. The OW told me my hubby stayed with me because of kids , finances etc ..: My kids are grown and if we split everything 50/50 we would both be ok. if you found your own man and he gave you 100% of his time and attention , you would finally realize true love. True love and deep love isn’t a couple hours a week. That’s a distraction , a little excitement etc. it absolutely kills me when OW say that hubby isn’t happy , or marriage isn’t good , or they have been unhappy for years. That’s how you justify your guilt. You know right from wrong. Believe me , if it was deep and true love he wouldn’t be with his wife and yearning for you and pining for what might have been. You ” feel” like you were the catalyst that’s bringing them back together?? Maybe he realized that sex isn’t all that or he got his thrill and it’s over. Maybe just maybe he’s letting you down easy. Before you go and do it again, ask yourself if you deserve second best

    • Laura

      You are writing things I didn’t write. My current lover has never said he loved me and has been explicit that he will either stay with his wife or leave her for his long time lover. He is clear he won’t leave his wife for me and I wouldn’t ask him to. I am not in love with him either.

      I have pushed him about the same things you have brought up, if he really loved this other woman, why didn’t he leave his wife when the kids hit their 20s. He doesn’t have a good explanation, which is part of why he’s trying now to make a decision once and for all between them. I think he’s relieved to finally have someone he can talk to about this struggle he’s gone through for decades between his family and a woman he is in love with.

      I’m not stealing any time from his wife or kids. The kids are in their late 20s, married, and live in other states. His wife lives in another state. If he wasn’t spending time with me he’d either be alone or with friends. We have a connection and in another lifetime may have dated, but for now we enjoy each other’s company, talk about our day, and enjoy physical intimacy. That’s about it

      As for my first affair, the EA, yes I loved him very much. But he never said he would leave his wife for me, nor did I ask him. I thought he did the right thing in saving the marriage with three kids under ten. They are still together, which is great for all of them. It doesn’t mean he didn’t love me as well, it just means he made the right choice when he was forced to. And hopefully I did as well by not fighting it and letting him go.

      So to answer your question, I am sleeping with a man who is clear it’s about sex. He cares about me as well and we really enjoy each other’s company, but I’m not under any delusions this is anything but an affair. I find it very interesting that he is still in love with the woman he had an affair with 20 years ago, though. Shows that many of you are wrong about why men stay–he is very clear it was for the kids. There is no reason for him to lie to me, I don’t care one way or the other why he stayed

      The other man, whom I loved dearly, was clearly not out for sex as he never got any over the several year EA we were in. And yes, he could have left his wife for me but it would have been the wrong thing to do and both of us agreed.

      And one last thing, I never said the wives were boring or shrews. That is your language. In fact, I think I would like my current lover’s wife very much. She’s incredibly smart and independent and does interesting work. He agrees we would get along great. I have no desire to meet the first man’s wife, she represents many things I don’t agree with. But I wil be the first to say she’s very pretty, much prettier than me and in fantastic shape.

      When men say they are unhappy in their marriages, they rarely make the wife look awful. I’ve never heard either say a bad word about their wives. They talk about the relationship, where they think the issues are, when things started to go off track, how they have been a bad husband at times. It’s a conversation. I would say with the one I was in love with I didn’t want to hear about her so we rarely discussed the marriage. But I have no trouble being a listening ear with my current lover. I think his wife sounds amazing, they just seem like a difficult personality fit. Which might be why SHE decided to move away 5 years ago

    • Cindy

      And I would love for any other woman on this site to answer me an honest question. Would you sleep with a married man if he told you he was bored , or just needed some excitement , or wanted something different in bed or wanted to screw a younger woman again. Would you sleep with a married man that was going through a mid life crisis or some other crisis he needed a break from? There’s not a married man on the planet that would actually tell you that and still expect sex from you. That’s absurd. When another married man tells you he’s not happy in his marriage , wait until the divorce. Because chances are he just wants some extra sex

    • Laura

      Sorry, was I not clear that we both know this is for sex? We enjoy each other’s company and are both interested in having sex with each other. If he’s using me, I am using him just as much. We’ve been friends for several years and this is a safe option for both of us. We trust each other to be discreet and honest, which we have been so far.

      As for self esteem issues, I’m sure I do have them. When you get to your 40s and are still single and have an extremely busy professional life it’s hard to believe you will find love. So I stopped looking, particularly after my EA ended. I don’t have the energy anymore. I don’t want to go through any more heartbreaks, that one was enough for a lifetime. So say what you want, my long term relationships that weren’t affairs didn’t lead to marriage and neither did my EA. Am I supposed to be romantic and hopeful at this point of my life? I would be a fool to say yes

    • Beckyb2

      Laura you are such a pitiful example of what this site is dedicated to eradicating from our lives . You are the lowest limb on the whore tree actually you could be a twin to the maggots that feed off decaying and dying toxic waste. Being a married whore fuckers whore seems to be your biggest lowlife screw up. Go play retarded whore on a screw the whore site if your insane whore shit is your reason for being here CEASE and DESIST go back to the retarded slime who uses you to escape reality leave your shit covered excuses and go find your whore site and FUCK YOURSELF. My apologies to the ones from this site this pervert is sick and I for one will NEVER listen to or waste my valuable time reading the cruel self centered asinine crap whores feel entitled to shovel like horse shit from a barn. Rant over

    • Beckyb2

      Laura you are down under the maggot bucket and your gutless ability to delude yourself is exactly what you deserve. You are LEGALLY a serial ADULTERER I pray you pay eternally . May you see your own sickness and I pray you NEVER know love . May you forever be flat on your back cause you are the epitome of l(legs)o(open)v(very)e(easily) your ignorant illogical and self destructive marriage wrecker service is ghetto rap crap. You are just like the whore who called three weeks ago when my son died may you receive the exact things as it did in your life . You are as sick as the rest of the whores in the world.

    • Laura

      Becky, I am very sorry for your loss. No one should ever have to bury a child, you must be in enormous pain. May God watch over you and those you love

    • theresa

      Laura, every touch, every kiss, every thoughtful gift, every special gesture, every secret shared, every minute of time, every minute of joy, every dime spent, every sexual encounter, shared between you and your married affair partner was stolen from his wife.
      In addition, it is ludicrous to believe that the affair does not have any effect on the marital relationship. No matter how you define the affair, even if it’s just sex. Whether or not his wife ever knows about the affair. This level of dishonesty makes a mockery of the marriage.
      And that’s on him. I feel that respect is a requirement in marriage. I can not think of anything that is more disrespectful than his disregard of the promises he made to his wife.
      You may not have made any promises to his wife. That does not make you unculpable.
      It’s just wrong.

      • Laura

        I see how you feel that way. The reason I don’t feel guilty with my current lover? I’m probably the 6th or 7th person he’s cheated on her with. He’s had his long time lover for 20 years and has had about 4 or 5 one night stands since his wife moved away 5 years ago. She’s never known about any of them (that he is aware of).

        The reason his affair with me has made him re-examine his relationship with his wife is that he realized he is now “cheating” on his long time lover. I’m the first since her that he feels he is dating, not just a one night stand. He realized that maybe there is something wrong with him and not just his marriage, which I assume you agree with.

        This is clearly not a long term situation for me. It’s just hard to feel guily when two adults in their 60s have for all intents and purposes already separated–and he’s been cheating on her for decades. They are not divorced, I get that. But if he wants to be with his lover after all these years, he should go do it. If he doesn’t, he should reinvest in his wife and make more effort to see her. And stop having affairs. But until he decides, I will continue to enjoy his company

    • Laura

      As a follow up, my relationship with the older man ended in January because he decided to really invest in his marriage again. I was happy for him and supported this, especially because he finally cut off contact with the woman he had been having an EA/PA with for 20 years. so it seems real this time

      He and I work together and see each other every day. It was a little tough at the beginning to “break up” as we had become very close, but we had a good discussion about what boundaries to put in place and honestly, everything is fine now. We get along well at work and just make sure to follow the rules so we don’t slip up (we don’t speak on the phone after work, no dinners alone anymore, we don’t sit next to each other in meetings). And, because the boundaries are truly in place, we haven’t spoken about his marriage and how things are going.

      He mentioned at the time that the affair with me is what woke him up that he had to take responsibility for his marriage and his life. He had been so bitter with his wife for moving away, he was spiraling out of control. Drinking too much, having multiple one night stands, continuing this long term affair with a third woman. But I was different–a close friend and colleague, someone whose trust and friendship he valued. Also someone he works with on a daily basis. It was so risky and stupid, it made him take a step back and say whatever happens, I owe it to myself and my wife to invest in that relationship. He also thought he owed it to me, as someone 20 years my senior at the company, to stop putting me at risk as well.

      Honestly, we care about each other. I pushed him to think about his wife and marriage in a more positive light and he pushed me to ask why I find myself in a second affair. We both asked each other the hard questions. Maybe this was easier than my EA because neither of us ever thought we were in love, we just really like each other a lot and are attracted to each other.

      I bring this up to say affairs are different things to different people. For him, he needed to reach a breaking point. I was the final straw of his crisis. But he doesn’t hate me or blame me. I don’t hate him or blame him either–for me he was a crutch to get through a very stressful period of time.

      • Becky B2

        Laura FYI his wife hates your guts he hates your whole selfish self serving greedy psycho self . You can bet he has no use for you or your empty words . You can fantasize all you want you will never bring a smile to him he knows you are low he knows you don’t have a care for any one but you that’s the greedy whore he now is faced with seeing you without the blinders of playing what lie do I tell next with you. Count on it you are the bad taste he spits out when he is reminded he thought any thing about you was a lie. Best wishes on continuing down your path of self delusional self destruction. Try the adult thing keep your mind on business at work they don’t pay you to commit adultery and play predator in other peoples marriages or to play what if do your job stop whoring on company time. If you must then take yourself to the local street corner you are a dime a dozen nothing special nothing worth any time in the real world you lost any worth by your sick choices. May you find life gives to you exactly what you have asked for.

        • Laura

          His wife doesn’t hate me because she doesn’t know about me. Nor does she know about his 20 year affair, nor does she know about his many one night stands since she moved to a different state. I’m sure she would think very little of me if she did know, obviously, but I also doubt she would blame me for what has been a long pattern of infidelity on his part.

          And no, he doesn’t hate me. Not at all. If anything, he hates himself for crossing the line with a close friend. It was as much him as it was me, we were equal players in this. Why does everyone assume the woman seduces the man? It was equal, it usually is, anything else you hear or believe is a lie, no one is “tricked” or “forced” into cheating. We are still very good friends and honest about the fact that we are still attracted to each other, we just don’t act on it

          You seem to be in a great deal of pain and clearly what you write reflects your experience. But in reality, you have no idea how other affairs come to be or end or how the people involved feel. Maybe his wife actually does know about all of us and just doesn’t want a divorce at this point in her life. Maybe she doesn’t really care what he does, I have no idea, I don’t pretend to know. You don’t know either

    • TryingHard

      Becky B
      APs have no concern or remorse for betrayed wives. They truly believe their affair was “different”. They wholly believe in their specialness which comes from a place of sociopathy or anti social behavior. They feel no guilt. None. Trying to teach them empathy or guilt is nothing but an effort in futility. That is why it’s so important not to have any kind of meaningful conversations with them. They are not normal people with normal emotions. They are incapable of it. It’s sad but we can learn from them. By those OW who post here you can apply the same character traits to the OW who intruded in your life. They are truly pathetic, desperate people. Really should be pitied.

      • Laura

        Considering how many people in the world have had affairs, do you really believe all APs are sociopathic or anti-social? And why do you believe it’s always the AP and not the CS who has those traits? Nothing you say is logical, it just shows how much you are still blinded by the emotion of your situation.

        Everyone involved in an affair is just a person. They have good traits and bad traits, the same way you do as well. Some have very bad traits and I’m sure do have psychologic disorders–whether a CS or an AP. Of course they exist. But I hate to burst your bubble, the vast majority are just normal people who make bad decisions.

        And as for believing their affair was different? All I can tell you is that my EA of several years and PA of just a few months were like night and day in terms of experience, what led to the situation, what happened afterwards. So while I am not proud to have been involved in two affairs, I can tell you from personal experience that no two affairs are the same, even when one of the people is the same. I guarantee your husband knows that, he just won’t admit it.

        Making the OW into a monster won’t solve your problems. The problem is the one living in your home. Beware the CS who puts all the blame on the AP and says she is the one who is unstable. Sometimes it is the behavior of the CS that can cause an AP to become unstable. The same way that no one knows what is really going on in a marriage, you have no idea what actually happened in the affair, only his version.

        And sometimes the CS is the one who invades the AP’s life–that has happened with me with the man from my EA. I don’t want to get into details, but he continues to not leave me alone despite still being married and has put me in a very difficult spot. It’s been over two years since things ended and yet he continues to do these things. I’m sure if his wife found out, like many of you, she would blame his actions on me and say I enticed him to keep contacting me. But he is the one responsible.

        Sometimes the BS needs to wake up and see their husbands and the situations for what they really are. Creating a fantasy in which the OW is an unstable temptress who trapped the CS won’t get you to a better place in your marriage. Or help you find peace if you are divorced

        • TheFirstWife

          Hey Laura. Thank you for allowing us innocent victims to see our CS gor what they really are.

          You should be proud to be part of the family of people who are so STUPID as to believe the crap the cheater tells you.

          So let me tell you about me. I made my H’s life a dream. He travelled on business while I stayed home and took care of kids, ran the house, paid the bills, was socially active, made family time and him a priority. He played basketball every Saturday morning. I never had a day to sleep late (no complaints). I volunteer and do charity work and sctive in my church plus my own job and hobbies. I weigh 10lbs more than when we married and exercise and keep fit.

          He golfed with friends, had weekend golf trips with the guys 2-3 times a year. We were a team.

          When I was aware of the affair EVERYONE said no way, not my H. He would never do that. His friends would say WHY? He has a great relationship with you. I often heard guys say they wish their wife was more like me as I harfly nagged and gave him plenty of freedom.

          His issue? Boredom. Mid life crisis.

          What he told her? A bunch of lies which she believed. I don’t hang out in bars, I don’t run up my credit cards, I don’t lie or cheat or steal. I am not covered in tattoos, I don’t do drugs and I have never been arrested.

          We hardly fought and got along great. He seemed happy. Never expressed a complaint or issue.

          So excuse me for not jumping up and down while you lend an ear to “help” some guy or be his friend. You are both acting inappropriately – crossing the line – whatever you call it.

          I hope the show is not on the other foot and YOU are madly in love with a guy and you find out he has done to you what you have done to us – our kids and families and friends. Trust me you are not strong enough to withstand the emotional impact a CS brings to your life.

          To my credit I still get hit on even though the guys are married and I am married. I laugh in their face and think what a jerk they are for even trying to see if I am interested. I lose all respect for them and feel bad for their spouse.

          And now I know my H is one of those guys.

    • Cindy

      Choosing to sleep with or become emotionally involved with a married man isn’t a bad decision. Choosing pizza over salad might be a bad decision. Choosing to be involved with someone part time and accepting crumbs shows a real lack of self esteem , narcissism , lack of empathy towards others , self indulgent, etc. so ya , the affair partner has a whole litany of personality disorders. And yes , all affairs are built on the same premise. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know you think that your affair partner was different. You probably believed and still do that you were the love of his life , the unattainable princess and he was stuck in a loveless marriage. Ha. Don’t you find it odd at all that you fall for married men? Whether it’s an EA or PA , you choose crumbs over substance. I’m also sure you think your EA was full of substance and long talks into the night and sharing ideas and dreams and just talking about your day. That is the fantasy life you created for yourself. Not the fantasy life we create. If your affair partner wanted a life with you they would be with you. Period. No excuses. As for your EA still not leaving you alone after 2 years. Please ! Maybe he has a wife that works 60 hours a week and children that need to be tended to. Maybe he missed ” the talking” , but sweetie if he missed you, he would be with you. He’s trying to get those CRUMBS back and if you didn’t want to hear from him there are ways to avoid it, so apparently you are getting a little pleasure out of the crumb seeking ass.
      I don’t blame the slut that slept with my husband. I blame them equally 50/50. In my case, my hubby was bored , needed a little excitement , something different etc. So yes , he is equally to blame. The difference is that I forgave him after endless talks and counseling sessions. I don’t forgive the slut. She gave up her body for
      Nothing. She got a couple crumbs , maybe even an I love you after a good roll in the hay. Lol. But when all was said and done , she was out in the cold. No explanations , no long talks , no counseling. Because she was nothing ! She didn’t deserve any talks or explanations .
      All affairs are most definitely the same. The cheating spouse is getting something he thinks he is missing. Period. Could be sex , attention, “talking”. Doesn’t matter if it’s a man or woman they are seeking something they think they are missing.
      Yours was no different then anyone else’s. It’s happened time and again since the beginning of time and will continue because there will always be women like you who have such low self esteem that they will accept crumbs instead of a real relationship and try to convince themselves that those crumbs are the real thing

    • Laura

      It is easy to judge others and make assumptions. It is also much, much easier for a BS to believe everything they read that fits their preconceived notion of how things are than to actually read and listen and realize they may not be right.

      Your husband knows the truth. The OW knows the truth. Just because he went through counseling and has been trained to say the right things doesn’t mean there isn’t a whole world of things he thought and felt that he hasn’t told you. It also doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you and want to be with you–but when a BS says something MUST BE SO, I think the CS feels they must go along with it to be forgiven. As a result, the BS all get on these blogs and say that anything that doesn’t fit exactly what you want to hear is wrong.

      You can say what you want, but my experience doesn’t fit your experience. And it doesn’t come close to the experience you imagined for me above. A lot of assumptions, all of which are wrong

      Not all men stay in their marriages because they love their wife more than the OW, there are multiple other reasons–finances, children, image–that go into that decision. It’s a matter of whether all of those things outweigh the chance to be with someone you love. And many men, at some point, decide that the family they built is more important than being in love. I’ve been on the other side, I have seen how this goes, from a man that was clear about staying with his wife to one that still struggles with it. I don’t blame them for making that decision. But–if there was real emotion involved in the affair–it also doesn’t mean he didn’t love the OW.

      I realize you will never accept this, but it’s the truth. And anyone who believes in soul mates or being the love of someones life past the age of about 30 knows nothing of the reality of life and relationships. You can love someone and give them up. You can love someone and not end up with them. You can love someone, marry them, and grow apart. You can love someone and fall in love with someone else. Nothing is guaranteed or predestined.

      I know the truth about my relationships and am pretty honest about them. Don’t assume you know everything there is to know about every OW–I guarantee you have friends who have been an OW and you have no idea. As long as they are nameless and faceless on a blog you can heap hatred on them, but if you realized who in your life was having an affair you would probably be shocked

    • cindy

      Bravo ! Only an affair partner would discount counseling. Lol. Seriosuly, we went through counseling and the counselor trained my poor , uneducated , mindless hubby what to say. Wow. Now who’s judging? Sounds to me like you’ve used that excuse in the past. Yes , my affair partner left me because he was brainwashed by a counselor. Lol. I can see how that might give you a little comfort after you got dumped. And I’m sorry, but the only person male or female that doesn’t think you can have a soulmate or a love of your life just haven’t found them yet. Perhaps if you tried to woo a man that wasn’t aready married you too, could find yours and not settle for crumbs. And if my best friend was having an affair with a married man , I would definitely suggest counseling or a physiatrist for HER ! And I would also try to help her. Lol. If that happened , I would gently explain to my best friend that her self esteem and self worth must be so low that she needs professional help. No one should have to settle for 1/2 or 1/3 of a relationship. And no one I actually know would settle for that

    • cindy

      ” it’s a matter of those things outweighing being with the one you love”. Direct quote from you above. You are all alike. Doesn’t matter the circumstance. You all believe that the man is in love with you but can’t be with you because of finances , children , jobs, image etc. sweetie , those are all excuses. If they wanted to be with you , they would. Period. I know those excuses keep you warm at night , but perhaps if you tried to get your own man , you would have more than excuses to keep you warm.

      • Laura

        I didn’t settle for part of a relationship nor do I claim both men were in love with me. One was a PA with a good friend, we like each other but were never in love. The other was an EA and we were very much in love. You have no idea how it ended or why, but it wasn’t simple. It was mutual, so that both of us could have a chance at a better life.

        I’m not saying anything crazy by saying sometimes people stay together because of the children. That isn’t exactly earth shattering news. It happens when there are affairs and when there aren’t affairs. I didn’t say it happens every time, but it happens sometimes. Sometimes the man really does realize he loves his wife more than anything. That is the difference between you and me–I can see many different ways that things play out. You can only see one

        Look, if it’s easier for you to believe that every single person who has ever had an affair has the exact same reasons and things end in the same way and all the OW are cookie cutter, then go ahead and believe it. But it’s not reality. You can write it a thousand time, but it still doesn’t make it true.

    • Laura

      And by the way, I didn’t say counseling was bad or anything specific about your husband. Marriage counseling is a good thing, as is individual therapy in these situations. I went to a therapist for the first time when my EA was blowing up. I had two–one was very helpful, the other not so much

      What I have noticed, however, is a crazy amount of the same story coming out of couples who have gone through counseling about affairs. The man always, ALWAYS, admits to affair fog, never admits to having had any feelings for the OW, and is there truly and only out of overwhelming love for his wife. I just don’t believe that can really be true in every case. I think it becomes very clear to the man what he needs to say for it all to be “over.” And I think at some point they will say just about anything for things to start to go back to normal.

      It’s not about brainwashing, I don’t think they really believe it. But I think it’s extremely clear what they have to do and say to be let back in, by both their wife and the counselor

      • TheFirstWife

        Hey Laura. One last thing. If a real man is that unhappily married he doesn’t cheat. He doesn’t have an EA. He either gets counseling to figure out what is not working in his marriage OR he shows enough respect for his wife and family and speaks to her first and is honest about what he is feeling.

        If the marriage cannot survive then a divorce is inevitable. But he acted with integrity.

        I told my H for many years if you get bored or tired of me please tell me. It would be ugly and heartbreaking but I would get over it. Please don’t cheat on me b/c that is low class.

        He chose to soothe his mid life crisis with an affair. My friend’s husband bought a bar during his mid life crisis. Something for him and his wife to do together.

        You have not had relationships with a real man. Real men face their problems. Cowards try to hide and bury their issues with affairs. See the difference ?

    • Strengthrequired

      Laura, not all Cs love the ap, and I’m sorry if that hurts you in any way, but most of the time they really do love their bs. There are so many reasons a Cs will go into an affair, and also in is not because the bs is a terrible person, although they do like to make us out to be that way. Not all the time a Cs decides to stay married because of the kids, they decide because their is history, they also, I know hard to believe, but they do actually love their bs, more than the ap, now that has to be a shock.
      Now I know this is hard to believe, but if a Cs wants to be with their ap, they would, they have already made that step in that direction after all. If the ap is truly what they want, nothing will stand in their way, nothing or no one.
      Why do you think a Cs can leave a bs, but then come racing back wanting to keep trying to save the marriage? It’s not because of the kids, or finances, etc, it’s because there is that history, the familiar, the love built over years. How many marriages end up in divorce, where the children have not been the deciding factor on whether to stay married or not?
      People do drift apart, especially when raising a family, work, finances etc, what life is all about takes hold, but a lot of the time that life that was built over the years, is hard to just toss away for an ap.
      However if that life was as bad as what had been made out to be, then I can tell you, then there would be nothing holding the Cs back if he/she was truly Inlove with the ap.
      So I am sorry, but if your ap was more Inlove with you than his wife, then he wouldn’t stay with his wife, he had his cake and ate it, but he stayed with his wife. Now he wants to keep you hanging because he wants to continue his cake eating.
      Don’t you think, you deserve better than having his wife’s leftovers. If you don’t want him to contact you, then there are ways you can stop it, maybe even letting his wife know, that her husband won’t leave you alone.
      One thing I hope for you, and that is, that you find a single man, that can devote himself to you, and you alone, one that can give you his whole self, one that wants to marry you and create a life with you, without any baggage. Don’t you think you deserve that type of love, not a half hearted love, from a man that has no problem with cheating on his wife, because the situation presented itself.
      I do though hope that when you do find that single man that you end up marrying, that after years of you both building your life together, and you thinking all is fine, and you end up finding out that he is cheating on you. I can tell you, it is a pain that you won’t ever forget, and I do hope, that then if it does happen, that you will see that the ow that your husband is cheating on you with, really doesn’t give a shit about you or your family that you created with him, she only cares about what she wants, and trust me, she won’t let up, on trying to break your marriage.
      Also, you will see a change in your husband in such a short amount of time, where one day, he is so Inlove with you, the next he is looking at you with sheer hatred, and you will be left wondering why.

      I do hope you find the love that you deserve, one that is not a married man. All the best

      • Laura

        This was a nice note, thank you.

      • Strengthrequired

        Laura, reading through my post, I was just wanting to clarify something, I don’t hope that your future husband cheats on you, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, what I do hope is if he does, that you finally understand what it was it had been like for us, the bs.
        I

    • cindy

      It ended because he was married. All the other women claim he has to stay with his wife for financial reasons, kids, image, etc… When the reality is that if he didn’t want to actually be with his wife , he wouldn’t be. Instead of listening to all his excuses , why don’t you wait until the divorce papers are actually in his hand to make your your move. If these married men didn’t tell lies , how many woman would actually become involved with them.? I.e.: If he told you right from the start he was having a mid life crisis and was never going to leave his wife , would you become involved anyway? I would have to guess NOT. So why would you become involved with a married men whether sexually or emotionally knowing full well his heart belongs to someone else? I will never understand that

      • Laura

        You will never understand because of your assumptions about how they start and why people get involved. You immediately reject every single thing I have written. Do you really think every OW is a total idiot? That every OW is out to “steal a man” or “invade your life” or is so stupid they “believe every lie” told to them? Do you think they actually want your life? I never, ever wanted the life of my EA’s wife. Ever. My PA’s wife is pretty awesome, I would take her life but having nothing to do with her husband, she’s just a badass

        It’s not that simple. Nothing is as simple as you make it out to be. I’m not sure either man ever told me lies. I never “made a move,” it doesn’t work that way. I’ve never heard a bad word about their wives. And there are many things I know to be true just because they are facts (such as my PA’s wife moved to a different state 4 years ago and doesn’t visit). And they can be shockingly honest about what they are struggling with. It’s not what you think. It’s not butterflies and rainbows and unicorns.

        I think my PA affair partner loves his wife. He has struggled for a long time, but I think he truly loves her and our affair woke him up to the fact he had been reckless for a long time. That being said, I have known many men who stay with their wife for reasons other than being in love with them. To think otherwise is to be painfully naive about life. Wives do it as well. And the man I was in love with? I don’t know if he really loves his wife or whether she loves him, but I didn’t give him the option of coming with me. Does that even compute with you? I didn’t give him the option of leaving her for me. Period

        I’m going to sign off now, it’s clear you will only believe what you have been told must be true, it’s useless to engage.

    • cindy

      You claim you were Both madly in love and we don’t know the whole story and we don’t know why it ended. If he wasn’t married it wouldn’t have had to end. Just help me to understand why you would become involved? What was the end game? Was it the thrill of the chase? The thrill of taking someone else away from their family , the sex , the ” talks” , the fantasy? I truly do understand why married men and women cheat, I truly understand their reasons and why they believe they can or should. I just do not understand why another person, male or female would actually choose to be with a married ” person”. I am being honest. What’s the end game. No matter how it goes , someone will be hurt. Either you or the spouse. Why would you want to inflict such pain on another human being?

      • Laura

        There was no thrill, there was no chase, there was no sex. We worked together and fell in love, I didn’t have it as a goal and thought for a long time it was just me that had feelings for him, although everyone else could see what it was mutual. It went on for years and was torture. I loved him, I don’t know what else you want me to say. It wasn’t until things starting exploding around us that he admitted his feelings for me and we had to deal with the situation, which ultimately led to us walking away, not only from each other but from our respective jobs It was a horrible experience for both of us. It was devastating when it ended, we both fell apart and ended up on antidepressants. She never found out

        What is it that you want to hear? That’s the story, it isn’t pretty or fun, i never said it was. All I ever said was that we loved each other but walked away. No one goes into these situations wanting an affair, especially an EA. Who wants that? They are different from PAs, it’s very unclear when the line is crossed. It is isn’t as conscious as sleeping with someone, which is an active decision. In my experience it was innocent until suddenly it wasn’t, until I realized how deeply involved I was, until this man I had spent the majority of my waking hours with for years turned to me and admitted he loved me and was lost

        It damaged my life. But I don’t blame him and I won’t tell a different story than the one I experienced. I know he doesn’t blame me and I know he still cares about me. I just keep him at arms length because it’s bad for both of us unless he gets divorced. At this point, though, even if he got divorced I’m too far gone from the situation. I don’t think I could ever open up to loving him again, it took me too long to get over the situation

        There you go, that’s all I have to say. I loved him and it was completely awful.

        • Strengthrequired

          Laura,
          Of course it is no thrill, when you aren’t the only woman in the picture. So why put yourself in that position, knowing that this man you are involved with is married? It just hurts everyone involved, but most of all it hurts the children of the married couple. I’m glad you aren’t letting this man back in your life, you do deserve so much better than being a side piece, and I have to say, so do we the bs.

    • cindy

      And before you tell me that you were in pain at the end , please tell me how you thought you would escape the pain? You set yourself up from the beginning no matter how it ended

    • TryingHard

      WOh crap does that mean Laura is signing off like some all knowing little delicate butterfly that can’t take the backlash? I had legitimate questions. WTF? Aren’t we all adults here? I guess NO

    • Cindy

      My question was : what is the end game for you? Does that compute? Why would you start a relationship with a married man? That was my question. Dont care about the lies on either side . Don’t care what reasons the men have you. I’m asking you , what do you get out of it? Why would you put yourself in that position? Heartache all around. You and the spouse. What’s the pint?

    • TryingHard

      Cindy. Great questions too. Laura–can’t you answer the questions? What are you so afraid of? You came on this blog with your pronouncements and points of view, we are just asking follow ups.

      I think Laura makes some good points. I think BS sparkle but OWs sparkle as well. We can learn from everyone

    • TryingHard

      Doug. Where are my comments?

      • Doug

        Sorry, TH For some reason yours always need to be approved. Not sure why. Anyways, I was in sleepy town when you wrote these. 😉

    • TryingHard

      First Wife. Ditto. LOL a woman yelled at me from across the parking lot today ” TH you are the most beautiful woman in this town. Mr TH is lucky to have you”. I wanted to crawl under my car but I agree with one thing she said. He IS lucky to have me!!!!

    • Becky B2

      Laura you fell in love while working with a married man. Not a true love just your sick fantasy why do I call your “love” fantasy while at work you nor the married man ever had to live real life you know the dirty dishes the dirty laundry the garbage and the bills the kids the cats the dogs nor did you have to live with the very intentional deliberate cruelty YOU and your married man made life for the real people who experienced all of life’s ups and downs . Excuses for your self centered selfish piss poor excuse you call ” fell in love” you are sick for latching on to a married man like the life sucking parasite you chose to be love isn’t stolen moments from a married man that you know is married to someone else that’s called being a thief stealing a wife’s time that is her time with her husband. You are what is known as easy you can even call yourself less than you are worthless useless a thief a cheater bluntly put you are a low life less than any man chose to marry. Climb up out of the sewer you put yourself in walk in the real world wear a shirt that says I am a lowlife cheating serial whore advertise put the truth out there take the shit you so richly have earned let the world know just how low you go there is a world of lowlife’s to keep you company stop advertising to married men their families never signed on to share life with your maggot infested less than life. You would be shocked to hear yourself described by the married man and you can be assured you are never going to be described as anything but an embarrassment and a less than good memory you are a passing afterthought you know the one after a fart that shit stinks so do you and your delusions of “love” you are never going to be the more you fantasize you were you are less than anything wanted love is permanent you are temporary how sad you are less than .

    • TryingHard

      Hi Lauea
      I think you tried to answer my questions.

      Am I understanding you right that you believe you couldn’t help falling in love with your EA partner? Do you believe you have no control over your feelings even though you are aware it will bring you problems? I’ve never been in that state where I just have no control over my feelings. I’ve worked with people I like and admire but there was always that line. I was married . I was never so swept off my feet that I would jeopardize my job or my marriage so I’m a little curious how people get there that’s all. Sorry if you were offended

      • Laura

        Not offended.

        It was like a lightening bolt with him. I did try to control it, but from the minute we met there was a weird connection between us. And believe me, I’m not a love at first sight kind of person. But I thought it was just me that felt that, he later admitted that on meeting me his feelings were so strong that he immediately decided not to mention my name to his wife, despite the fact we were colleagues. I know it bothered him as well and there were several times he pushed me away without warning, which I didn’t understand at the time because we were not open about our feelings for most of the EA. It was a huge elephant in the room for many years until we were forced to discuss it and everything came spilling out

        So I don’t think either of us felt in control of our feelings, but we stupidly both thought we were managing the situation–until it was clear we were in no way managing it and it spun out of control. Not sure if that makes sense

    • TryingHard

      Hey Laura just one more follow up question. Given you had such an awful experience, your words, do you think you are capable of avoiding that kind of attraction the next time someone married comes around that you are attracted to? Have you personally learned anything from past actions that caused you so much distress?

      • Laura

        Well obviously on one hand, no, since I recently was involved in a PA. Although that was all triggered by my second AP guessing I was in love with the man from my EA (they know each other) and admitting to me that he had had an affair as well. Once that came out and we shared that secret with each other, one thing led to another (we had been very good friends for years, but I had never thought of him romantically until that point in time). In part I think it happened because I was stressed about developments with my EA partner last summer and this became an outlet for me. And since my PA AP had had several affairs over the last 20 years, which he was open about, it felt different somehow. He was also very clear he wouldn’t fall in love with me and I shouldn’t fall for him either. It was just a very, very different situation from the beginning

        On the other hand, I don’t think I could ever be in as screwed up a situation as I was in my EA again. I don’t know how I would avoid it, since it seems to happen at work for me, and avoiding colleagues you work closely with is difficult. But I would never let a situation go on like that. I would either avoid it or try to have the honest conversation much earlier.

        The only common denominator between the two is that in neither case was their wife ever in same town, I’m not sure I could deal with that. In both cases the men basically worked somewhere different than where their wives live. My EA would see his family on the weekends, but my PA will sometimes go weeks without seeing his wife. So that somehow felt different for me, there was never an issue of them leaving me to go meet their wife and the guilt that would cause. And I never had to worry about running into her. That may be the way my head wrapped itself around the situation. I’m not using that as an excuse, just the one thing that links the two for me. Probably made it much easier for them to compartmentalize as well

        • Strengthrequired

          Laura, thanks for being so open, I still stand by what I said to you before, I hope you find a man that you can connect with that isn’t married, someone who will be your one and only and you his. it is way too painful for everyone involved when you add a third person into a relationship, so many people get hurt, but even the ones that cop a lot of the collateral damage and upset to their life, the children. They suffer so much.
          Please think about the children, if you happen to find yourself in a situation like this again, maybe it might help you make the right decision, trust me it will save a lot of grief and pain from all sides, but it will save you going through any more heartache too, and having people think bad of you for trying to break up a family.
          Don’t give yourself that image, don’t be the one that gets the blame for breaking a marriage,a family. you don’t want that name tag. Be good to yourself and don’t settle foe second best. All the best.

    • TryingHard

      Thanks Laura. To your question no I do not believe all OW are sociopaths nor are all cheating spouse not sociopaths. However sociopathy runs in a continuum. I do think most cheater and AP have personality disorders from one extent to the other. I thinks it’s a very sad experience for everyone involved. I personally could not fathom entering into such a relationship based on lies and deceit. But that’s just me. I’ve kind of learned to feel a little compassion for AP women because we women give relationships our all. And I think some men take terrific advantage of that fact. There are people who use other people for their own personal gain without any thought of who they are hurting. It’s a sad existence if you ask me.

      Thanks again for answering my questions

    • antiskank

      Laura
      I have to assume that since you are on this site, you are also suffering somewhat from your involvement related to affairs. I can’t say that I fully understand since I am in the position of being the betrayed as opposed to being the betrayer but do realize that there is a process involved in getting your life back to normal.

      I want to thank you for your contributions because it does give a different perspective which I personally need on occasion. I don’t agree with your views but I would expect them to be very different given that you were involved in affairs with married men, something I feel strongly about.

      I don’t agree that there are positives to an affair. Even though some people can shut off their conscience while engaged in the affair, they all seem to admit after it’s over that it wasn’t worth the resulting pain all around. I can speak from my experience that there was nothing at all positive about my husband being emotionally involved with someone else. Do I blame the evil other woman? I do to some extent as I know her and am aware of her skanky behaviour. She was married when she first became involved with my H and had cheated on her H a few times. But, in my case, I believe that the damage caused to me and my marriage rest quite comfortably on the shoulders of my cheating husband. He is the one who made vows and promises to me, the one who said and did all the hurtful things to me. He is the one who must regain my love and trust.

      As for the affair being planned or looking for it to happen – I understand that sometimes people have a connection that can lead to more but many of us know how to say NO! We look at what is right and wrong and determine that affairs involving married people, regardless of who is the aggressor – are wrong!

      I, too question the legitimacy of the “affair fog”. I think to some extent is is another means of justifying poor behaviour. And although most do claim to have been in the affair fog, you are wrong in saying that they do not admit feelings for the AP. They do claim to have had feelings, it may even have been their “one true love”. Often they examine their feelings and come to the conclusion that it wasn’t really love, especially when faced with losing their spouse over it.

      Do they say things they think you want to hear? Absolutely!! It doesn’t have anything to do with being “let in by their wife and counsellor” however. You’re right that they do just want it to be over so they can get back to life as usual, I’m sure. Believe it or not, sometimes they do the work and go to the counselling because they realize how stupid they were and they will do what they need to do so they don’t lose the wife they love but betrayed.

      Regardless, I will never be convinced that affairs are a positive thing. People that engage in this selfish behaviour have made a choice to do so, they don’t just happen. The betrayal is devastating and life changing in all the wrong ways. Recovering from the effects of an affair on a marriage and a family are difficult and exhausting. There are no winners where affairs are involved.

      I hope that you will never have to experience an affair from the position of the betrayed. It is not something I would wish on anyone. I hope that you can understand our perspective a little better after the many comments you have received.

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