If you’re an ex-cheating spouse whose goal is to reconcile & help your spouse heal, commit to no more lies & to a life of honesty.

no more liesBy Doug

I think it’s safe to say that we all hear of, or come into contact with liars on a daily basis.  Just watch the evening news sometime.  Politicians are lying, Criminals are lying.  Corporate executives are lying.  Super Bowl quarterbacks are lying.  The list is endless.

I’ll admit that I used lie all the time.  I used to be afraid of confrontation so I would justify small, ‘harmless’ lies to avoid that.   I lied in every facet of my life at some point; work, family life, social. 

But I don’t do that anymore. I’d rather live truthfully even if it ruffles some feathers. I can respect myself more that way and knowing that I’m living my life more authentically just feels better than lying about things.

It started at a young age

When I was a child, our family would sit down for dinner promptly at 5:30 most every evening.  Since I had the habit of losing track of time or being out of earshot from my parents, I was given a watch so that I would know precisely when it was time to come home.

In those days, especially during the summer, I was rarely in the house.  I was always outside playing something with friends and I could be just about anywhere in our neighborhood. I hated to come inside for any reason, especially just to eat dinner.  After all, if would take precious time away from playing baseball or from our fort that we had in the woods.

One day I came up with this great idea that would allow me to stay out longer.  I’d simply set the time back on my watch an hour or so.  There’s no way I’d get in trouble since I was going by what my watch said.  Brilliant!

Well, needless to say, that didn’t work too well.  My parents saw right through that little deception and I was grounded for the rest of the week. 

That is pretty much my earliest recollection of an instance of when I lied as a child.  I was about 8-years old then, but I’m fairly certain that I must have told some fibs earlier than that though, and continued to lie on occasion throughout much of my life…

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“I didn’t take the last cookie.”

“No Mom, there wasn’t any beer at the party!”

“Yes sir, my grade point average in college was 3.5.”

“Yes that dress looks great on you.  We’re late. Let’s go!”

“She’s just a client”

How often and why do you lie?

In her research, Bella DePaulo, Ph.D. found that people lie in one in five of their daily interactions. Pamela Meyer, author of Liespotting, claims that we’re lied to from 10-200 times a day.

In my opinion, there are only two primary reasons people lie (or deceive in some way):  to get something they want or to protect themselves in some way.  It’s something we’ve all done since we were small children.

Infidelity and dishonesty go hand in hand

We all know that affairs are fraught with lies.  There are the maddening denials in the face of damning evidence, the lies by omission, the trickle truths, the exaggerations of facts and the straight up lie-to-your-face stories.

The other day I was talking with a woman who is a little more than a year out from her D-day.  Things were certainly rough for her early on but were steadily improving.  Her husband was finally starting to “get it” and she wasn’t dwelling on the affair quite like she used to.  They were definitely moving in the right direction.

Then it happened.  She caught her husband in a lie and she was suddenly catapulted back in time to a very dark place.  The woman knew the affair was over and there was no contact but the lie he told her blew up virtually every ounce of trust that had been rebuilt over these past months.

She was wondering aloud if she could live with a man who she couldn’t trust to tell the truth.


Trust After An Affair is Fragile


Lying of any kind destroys trust

And I hear stories like this on a regular basis, and in many cases the lie that was told had nothing to do with the affair or the relationship.  But the fact that the CS was dishonest makes their spouse’s mind race and can often create all sorts of dire scenarios.  It makes them wonder if the CS was ever telling the truth.

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The importance of honesty while attempting to reconcile cannot be overemphasized. Honesty gives the best chance at real recovery, while lying of any kind can delay or prevent recovery and reconciliation. As the saying goes, “The truth shall set you free.”

And I’m not even going to get into the whole trickle truth stuff where the CS dishes out bits and pieces of truth over time, other than to say that anything that comes out well into the process of recovery sets the entire process back to square one.

If it’s something that was sworn as the truth early in recovery that is later revealed as less than fully truthful, it can undo ALL the work that has been done to that point, and even prevent the process from continuing.

We’ve heard from many a betrayed spouse echo the point that the affair itself was incredibly painful, yet it can be forgiven.  But it is the lying and the purposeful deceit that makes it so difficult to swallow.

Believe me, I get it. 

You may be trying to “protect” your spouse and you don’t want to hurt them anymore than you already have.  But ask yourself if your lying is really about protecting your spouse or saving your own rear-end?

Also ask yourself, would you rather continue to live a life full of so many lies you can’t even keep them straight? Or would you prefer an authentic life, one that can be taken at face value. Honest and clean? Which one is easier?

So if you’re an ex-cheating spouse whose goal is to reconcile while helping your spouse heal, stop the lying and commit to a life of honesty in all that you say and do.

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It will be difficult to admit to all the truths and will be hurtful to your spouse and even you.  And in the end after the truth is told, you can then both decide where to go from there. Maybe telling the truth will get you what you want.

When you’re a cheater, lying becomes a habit. That doesn’t mean that you can’t break the habit. As you practice being truthful in everything, honesty can become your new way.

Some quotes on lying

To wrap this up, I thought I’d include some quotes on lying that may hit home for some of you. (I have no idea who these quotes are attributed to)

  • “You can’t constantly lie and expect people to trust you.”
  • “A single lie discovered is enough to create contagious doubt over every other truth expressed.”
  • “He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it easier to do it a second time.”
  • “Never lie to the person you love. It’s not worth it and they don’t deserve it.”
  • “What I don’t understand is how a person can tell you so many lies and never feel bad about it.”
  • “The worst part about being lied to is knowing that to that person, you weren’t worth the truth.”
  • I would rather be known in life as an honest sinner, than a lying hypocrite.”
  • “Lying is done with words and also with silence.”
  • “Self deception is the most damaging form of dishonesty.”
  • “The truth may hurt for a little while but a lie hurts forever.”

Feel free to add your own quotes on lying in the comment section below and also consider these questions…

Whether you are the cheater of the betrayed, how has lying affected your situation since the affair?

What have you done to try and eliminate lying from your life?

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    145 replies to "No More Lies, Please!"

    • Heartbroken

      So how do you move on when your H lied for an entire year about ending the EA? I do believe that he has ended all contact now but he lied on a weekly basis for a year when asked if he was still in contact with her. I love my husband and I want to move on and I truly believe he does too now, but how do I forgive an entire year of lies???

    • Shifting Impressions

      Many years ago, when I was dealing with an extremely difficult situation a very wise person said to me “It is better to deal with pain of the truth than to deal with the pain of a lie.” That quote really stuck with me.

      This is a really good post….and I struggle with the deception of it all on a daily basis. And yes a small lie (even though unrelated to the affair), on my partner’s part is a huge set-back.

    • Tryingtorecover

      Shifting- great quote and it’s so true. A year after d-day I filed for divorce. I belueve he no longer has contact with the ow, but he continues to lie…Sadly, some cheaters/liars fail to learn that honesty is the best policy for others and themselves. He said he wanted me and yet he continued to lie about details of the affair and superficial things…

      Heartbroken.. If he lied for a year about ending the affair how do you know it’s over?

      I actually contacted the ow for more answers. I learned more from her than what my husband would ever offer- it helped solidify my decision to leave. I know many people opt not to do this..

      I found out about the Ea through suspicion. Over months of asking about another woman, with his denial …eventually I felt compelled to lie about hiring a private investigator to get him to admit the truth. I suffered months of gaslighting. I’m saddened that I had to resort to lying, as I’ve lived such an authentic life. Another reason why I chose to file for divorce. I was no longer the woman who I was at my core- honest, authentic, caring.

      In closing- when he finally admitted to the affair and wrote an apology to her husband via email and one to her that it was over. So I ask – can we ever be sure it’s over if we don’t trust our partner? I don’t believe we can – hence an additional reason why I chose to leave.

      As scary as leaving is- I cry a lot, but I know that my children need a strong mother who respects herself. My love for myself and my children is far more important than fear of abandonement.

      • Shifting Impressions

        I thought of contacting the OW for more information but then I started to think about it. Why would I trust the word of the other woman?? She also lied, by having the EA with my husband in the first place. Can one really know what their ulterior motive might be? In my case I believe she would be willing to sit down and talk with me….and in everyother way seems trustworthy (in her job etc.) Getting more info from the other woman seems risky at best…..I don’t think I would be able to trust that information.

        • tryingtorecover

          I hear what you’re saying, however the same can be said for our husband’s word as well. At some point we need to trust. Whether it be our husband’s, the OW or most importantly – ourselves – this is what I did – I began to trust myself!This was the greatest gift.

          I sorted out what she said and was able to decipher what was embellished for her ego. Much of what she shared my husband actually confirmed. This information he would’ve NEVER disclosed to me otherwise. Some he still denied, though I know she actually wasn’t lying about because it was things he’s said to me before verbatim.

          So you see if we trust ourselves – and know all these years we’ve become experts in our relationships dynamics we can weed through what is shared. I’m a counselor and work with numerous people who struggle with addiction, who are incarcerated, and lie often. I have a great BS detector. I think connecting with the OW is based on the individual, ones comfort level, and what their motivation is. Mine was that I needed to make a determination whether I wanted to stay and work on my marriage or leave.

          The OW shared the affair started over a decade ago and contact was sporadic throughout the years, but was there for a decade. My husband only shared that it was this past year. After she shared this, he confirmed it and I was able to know I wanted to get a divorce. I realized that he continued to hide the full truth and he was still capable of “doing it again” because he already did – for a decade.

          I have great trust in myself, my gut now. For years I felt something was amiss and people talked me out of thinking he was cheating. I think the best gift you can give yourself is trusting yourself – talking to others, though weeding through the information with using your keen judgement.

          • Shifting Impressions

            That makes so much sense. I also knew something was very wrong both times and believe one should listen to that gut instinct. The problem is that upon discovering an afair it is easy to lose trust in yourself. Every thing gets shaken up and it’s hard to find yourself back.

            • tryingtorecover

              Exactly!! I lost trust in myself, the world, humanity… it took almost a year to feel some assemblance of trust in myself. It will be the one year anniversary of D-day at the end of this month and I plan to surround myself with friends and my children. I found that counseling, my children, self help books (one I mention in this feed), meditation, this site, and my dogs helped immensely.

              To open up: something hit me like a ton of bricks about month ago: that my husband repeated the exact same dynamic/life story he had in his childhood. I was shell shocked that my family relived this trauma he promised to protect us from.

              His father cheated on his mother after 8 years of marriage and while she was pregnant with their third (my husband) child. My husband did the same- after 8 years of marriage and as I was pregnant with our third child. The OW was so similar to the woman his father cheated with both are; wealthy, worked with them, hyper-focused on material items, both cheated on their husband to be with them. His father moved after his mother learned of the affair- my husband moved out immediately as well….

              My husband’s mother got a divorce, though she never recovered. She became an alcoholic, sad, bitter, and angry person.

              From this revelation I made a personal commitment: I had no control over my husband replaying his life story on me and our innocent children, but I have all the power not to continue it. I REFUSE to be like his mother. I will be compassionate to my ex- husband, keep trust in myself, learn to trust and love others again, enjoy life, my children, enjoy the sunset, smile, laugh. Most importantly: know that my soon to be ex husband isn’t the driver of my soul. My life story hasn’t ended and it will look more like the life that my beautiful parents envisioned….

              I believe every person on this site has the ability to be the driver of their destiny!

          • Becky

            I agree with every single word you said.. it is up to the INDIVIDUAL whether you see a value in communicated with the OW… I just can’t get on board with this opinion ( and it is a strong opinion I might add) that it is a mistake contacting the OW.. No one has that right to impose such a restriction on another’s reach for resolve….. for me a desire to contact the OW is far too strong to ignore which brings me to my second point…. YOU HAVE TO TRUST YOUR INNER
            INSTINCTS…. all of my instincts have proven to be SPOT ON .. hAd I listened to the advice of others I would still be living a torrential life of gaslighting and abuse. It took me almost 4 years
            To get to FULL DISCLOSURE… I did exactly what you did and fabricated different scenarios of private investors.. counseling advice.. the frosting on the cake was when he thought we were off to do a polygraph… he final drew back the ENTIRE CURTAIN… and it took a full day sitting across from him hearing about all his lies and infidelities…. It caused the most intense
            Painful grief a woman can endure… but it had to happen in order for me to cross that bridge to a
            Complacent, peace of mind life….
            I am still not OK but all the lies, secretiveness, and gaslighting is gone and I have hope..
            You did the RIGHT THING… because you followed your gut and your heart.. I have great respect for you and I hope and pray for your happiness.

        • DJ

          I know that most counselors do not advise this but I think contacting the affair partner or their spouse calmly with a clear goal is greatly valuable. It was for me, just the thought of me wanting to talk to the ea’s husband scared her enough to end the relationship. It wasn’t pretty, but it helped my husband see that she was not going to choose him over her marriage. That alone was very sobering for him. Prior to that, he lied, insisted that she was “just a friend” and refused to honor my feelings. I had expressed my concerns to her earlier so she was not a stranger. The fact that she became angry at me, attacked me verbally to others, told me everything I needed to know. If you can remain in control of your emotions then I highly recommend it.

          • Jennet

            Hi I told the other woman s husband the day after I found out.i spoke to him on the phone
            And then met him and told him everything that I had learned from my husband that it had been going on for 3.5 years while he was working away.he said that happened in her first marriage I don’t know if he was the other person in thst breakup anyway to say he was shocked was an understatement .I told him because I wanted to fuck up her life like she’d had ducked up mine and it did.she called me a liar and that my husband was a good friend and a father figure.
            When I told my husband that he looked shocked but they still were in contact for another 7 months (although he couldn’t meet her because of our strict lovkdown rules)he still texted phoned her.in those 7 months I asked him over and over has it finished are you in contact with her??he said no he wasn’t such a huge lie and I’m so disappointed with him and I only found out 2 weeks ago which would take us to 22 months from DD but because of this it is now back to 15 months in reality the strange thing I wasn’t thst bothered because all those months I kept asking I just knew he was lying so instead of feeling I was going mad and being paranoid I feel relief thst my gut was right along. On the other hand her husband confronted us a year after DD and apologised to me because he wanted to ask my husband some very personal questions I.e.did you have sex with my wife in my bed of course my husband couldn’t deny it because he had already told me that he had so the questions kept coming and I have to say I enjoyed watching my husband squirm with embarrassment as we were in a cafe. It turned out that his wife was still lying to him saying my husband was a friend and father figure .that seemed to shock my husband that she hadn’t admitted being his lover after all that time .perhaps he realised she wasn’t so wonderful after all.I would like to think all contact has ended but it is so difficult to get trust back after such a huge betrayal wrbhzve been together for 52 years and I trusted him completely but I don’t think I ever will again. This is such a traumatic thing to go through I don’t think any of us will ever be the same again
            I’m hopeful we will get through it I love my husband very much and I’m sure he loves me but he is riddle with guilt and shame.
            Although sometimes I still thinks ‘what if,’ !!!!
            It’s a very tough road we travel and I wish everyone Good Luck

          • Shifting Impressions

            I think that anyone thinking of approaching the AP or their spouse should proceed with extreme caution. You have no idea what hornet’s nest you might be stepping into.

            Controlling your own emotions is not the only thing at play here. For example…. to the AP’s spouse, your husband or wife is the AP!! They might not be in control of their emotions. They might even have a history of violence and decide to take revenge on your spouse or worse your family. Or perhaps they are suicidal. Crimes of passion are committed all the time. Be aware situations like this can become volatile!!

      • Done With Denial


        In reading your story I am floored at how similar it is to mine. I discovered my husband’s affair in January while knowing something had been going on with a waitress at the pub he frequented during football season. I started to get an inkling in October of LAST year, but I was stonewalled and gaslighted for the next 4 months until I finally forced him to show me the text messages that were coming in from a strange number. He didn’t end it right away; he took another month and showed me the text that stated he was breaking contact. A woman’s intuition always knows and I never believed he broke contact completely. It wasn’t until after he supposedly ended it that I found out she is a mainline heroin addict who he’d been trying to “save” after he became emotionally invested in her (she admitted she hid it from him at first). Fast forward to one week ago. I saw her number showing up on the phone bill again and I promised myself that if it did, I would contact HER and ask her to leave us alone since my husband has been home and reconciling with me, or so I thought. She responded via text, then we spoke. The question is, who do I believe? My lying, manipulative, despicable shell of a husband or an active drug abuser turned prostitute (she admitted this and I’ve seen her profile online)? She described my house down to the exact detail and also my in-laws’ summer home and told me he’s been telling her all year that we are done and divorcing. When I asked if it was a sexual affair, she began to cry and said yes. He STILL wouldn’t admit anything even with the evidence SHE presented to me! Like you, I learned way more information from her than he would have EVER given me and I believe he will go to his grave with the truth. I believed since January that it was a full blown affair and not just a friendship as he claimed and that HE pursued HER (based on one email exchange I saw and the amount of texts and calls from HIM that were unanswered by her). It’s not for everyone to contact the OW, but because I did, it confirmed my own feelings all along. I, too, have decided to divorce my husband because I don’t feel that this man would know the truth if it bit him. I believe that my husband has narcissistic and borderline personality tendencies. He watched me suffer for the last year and continued his lies. And the fact that he admitted to being emotionally attached and addicted to an addict was enough for me. Game over. Sigh…

    • Falling Ash

      I have been reading this site for well over a year now, but this is my first time posting. I cannot express just how much support I have gained from Doug and Linda’s posts and all the comments. I have read every one and feel I know you all personally. I am almost 18 months post DDay now and it has been the most traumatic event of my life.

      A year after DDay, almost to the day, I caught my OH in a lie about being on the street where she lives. It was for an innocent reason (I believe him about that), but the lying set back my recovery by months. Total honesty is THE fundamental requirement for me. My OH is working so very hard at trying to make amends, but continued lying will kill our relationship stone dead. If he cannot commit to total honesty, we will not make it through this $#1T.

      • TryingHard

        Falling Ash

        I had the exact same thing happen. It was six months post DDay 1 and 2 months post DDay 2. We were WELL into MC. Everything was going great. We were leaving on a driving trip the next day.

        He had to go down to Whoreville for an appointment. He told me he was going. I gave him that look. We even laughed a little about it. Well I had the GPS well hidden in his car. A GPS that HE insisted I install. He was innocent, nothing going on. OK so I got one. I didn’t tell him. What’s the use in that??? Anyway he goes down and once he’s back I retrieve the GPS device and download the contents. Sure enough he drove out of his way to go past her house. Now she wasn’t home at the time and he knew she wasn’t but that’s beside the point. I don’t think he was driving to see her just curious. So when he got home I questioned him if he had done a drive by. He looked me square in the eye and said “No”, I said “Are you sure that’s your answer?”, again looked me square in the eye and said “yes, that’s my answer. I did not do a drive by.” Again I gave him another chance, I looked at him, squinted my eyes and asked “Are you certain that’s what you want to say, that you did not drive anywhere near her house?” Nope, didn’t drive by her house was his answer. Now I swear Falling Ash had I not had the evidence in black and white on the computer I would have believed him. He’s that good a liar. So I said “well come with me. I want to show you something” and I took him to the computer and replayed the GPS data. He almost fell to the floor. He was shocked I had actually gone through and bought the GPS even after he told me to and our MC told me to “keep my eyes wide open”. Well seven different kinds of shit hit the fan! I knew he wasn’t going to see her but he lied AGAIN!!! I was pissed. I was as pissed as I was on DDay 1. I was ready to leave and wouldn’t you know we were leaving the next day for a week long vacation. Well that trip was a trip to remember. I swear at least once or twice a day for a week one of us was leaving.

        So yes, it’s the lies and their continued ability to lie and look you straight in the face and lie. And what’s worse is we want to believe those lies, we want to believe them and in them. That’s what makes it so easy for them. We are complicit in their stories. We judge them by our own values that there is no way I could continue a bald faced lie without breaking down when confronted.

        Well anyway, long story short, that trip was one miserable SOB and I truly didn’t think we would ever get through the last lie. I harped and railed for days. I sobbed, threatened, walked out, you name it. But I am still gobsmacked that it wasn’t until I showed him in black and white that he finally capitulated!

        Indeed, you will not make it without total honesty in the whole relationship.

        • Falling Ash

          TH – Weirdly, I discovered the lie on our way back from a fantastic holiday.I was following our route on a map and turned the page, only to find the next page had the street she lived on it. There was a parking receipt dated earlier that month in the page. I asked him why. At first he tried to come up with an excuse, then realised how futile that was and confessed the lie. Needless to say the rest of that journey was hell! It undid all the previous year’s hard work and tarnished what was a fantastic holiday. I do believe it was a legitimate work reason, and the route he said he went didn’t go past her house, but of course, I will never really know if he did drive by her house or not. Yet another thing I have to take “on trust”. I told him last night about your comment and he swears blind that he did not go anywhere near to her house, because he has absolutely no desire to relive ” that shit” again. He also says if I want to GPS his car, he is happy for me to do so. Not sure I will though.

          • Strengthrequired

            Th, fallingash, I found my ch a few times at the ow home after he had told me he wasn’t seeing her, that he was going out with his mates. Th, you probably remember me mentioning the one time I caught him, I pressed the intercom of the number I thought she was in, and told them to send my husband down, apparently the wrong apartment number, lol. Yet that particular day, I was sure I was going to leave, yet he stopped me, told me he just needed time to let her down easy.
            Yet let me just say, time and time again I kept catching him out in a lie, and yes, he kept denying. That’s what amazes me, they just keep lying to your face even after getting caught out. Yes you want to believe them against your better judgement, so you just keep giving in, until the next lie.
            Honestly they must think we are so stupid. Wouldn’t you actually like to be in their mind when they are caught out in a lie. They must sit there thinking, how the hell did she know, quick think of something, ohh No…. Lol

          • Tryinghard

            Falling Ash
            My h did go to the town for business appointment. The house wasn’t that far out of the way. Regardless I knew he had to be having some butterflies while doing the drive. He went by on his way back. Maybe it was sheer curiosity. He made many, many trips there. He claimed once nailed he wanted to see if it was for sale and maybe that was part of it.

            I told him if he’d called and said “hey I want to do a drive by and see if she has her house for sale” I would have said yes do it. I wanted to know too. I would have loved knowing she was selling her house and moving away but my luck she’d have moved to my town as that’s where she worked.

            The main point was the lie and the many times I offered him up to come clean. He thought I was bluffing. I never acted like I was bluffing. Even once I took him to the computer he still maintained his lie. Plus it was so stupid to lie about it. I even said I would understand. That had I been in his position I would be tempted to as well. I never showed any anger until I showed him the hard evidence. It was almost as if he was playing a sick poker game with me. Well he’s a good liar but a terrible gambler.

            It took me a couple of months to get the nerve to buy the GPS. Of course I didn’t want to. Who on earth ever says “gee whiz I’d like to GPS my husbands car” just for the fun of it? It’s crazy making shit. But I was already crazed after DDat 1 and 2. Carrying through with a totally irrational act like buying the GPS was just the frosting on crazed 🙂 But after that I wished I had bought it sooner. Who knows what I would have found. I did also see some crazy out of the way drives. I think he wanted to “accidentally run” into her. And maybe he did but I couldn’t prove it as GPS does show other cars:)

            I left the GPS on for a long time. Many months. It shows a pattern. But never found much else. I use it once in a blue moon just to check. Especially if I’m gone. I do not regret doing using the device. I hate it that I’ve had to. I hate that my husband is such an accomplished liar. But now he knows I have the smarts to use it if I even have a whiff of dishonesty. After all he’s the one that suggested I get one.

            I think now I am too tired to bother with it. He wants to be an idiot again he knows I’m gone. It’s really all up to him to keep himself in check.

            I would encourage anyone who has doubts to buy one. It is reassuring. I didn’t have to worry or wonder if he was goi g where he said he was going. I had proof and he was never sure if I was still using it or not.

            Such is life for him. He doesn’t like it, there’s the door. Henry Kissinger said Trust but verify. My little GPS helped me with that.

            Seriously I could write a book all the shit I’ve done and been through and now I want peace. Today I neither trust nor distrust him. I’ve put the responsibility of his actions and maintaining his moral compass and commitment to me and my boundaries totally on him. So far so good but who knows, right?

            • Falling Ash

              TH – I told him, if he had told me about the visit honestly, as he should have done, I could have gone with him and sat in the car during his appointment. He claimed he only knew roughly where he was going until he was nearly there. Now that bit I can definitely believe. He is completely crap with directions. I discussed your GPS idea with him and he says to go ahead if I want… that he has nothing to hide anymore. I have asked him to text me during the day to let me know the street address of every visit he does. We will see how that goes. One whiff of a lie and that GPS will look more viable.

            • chely

              There are no 100% guarantees with GPS either. If they even have an inkling that your using one all they have to do is leave car where they”re supposed to be or remove from vehicle (They have scanners to buy to help you find in car) and leave at said location. Also if they think your using one they may do like my asshole and drive around in crazy patterns stopping randomly, etc. They know you wont ask about anything but it’ll drive you bonkers trying to figure out what there up to. This is very easy for my spouse because his job (2hrs from home) allows him freedom to come and go as neccessary. Aughh!!! All I want is the fricking truth!!

            • TryingHard

              Agree they are not fool proof. That’s when you hire a PI

    • David

      I am with you Doug. My affair was with pornography. I struggled with it for years until my wife found out. It was greatly damaging her. I did not love her they way I vowed to in our marriage. I feel woefully short as a husband. Thankfully I am in a much better place, taking an active role in my own growth to become a better man and husband. Each day I am learning to die to self and become more transparent. It is scary at first, no one wants rejection, but as we become more vulnerable the great the opportunities we have for deep connection. A great TED talk on this type of connection is by Brene Brown on the power of vulenerability at https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.

    • TheFirstWife

      All true statements. I read a great quote once.

      People won’t tell you what is wrong in your relationship, they would rather just cheat.

      The pattern and trend is that the CS continues to lie after the EA/PA is out in the open. They just don’t see where that is flawed logic.

      My H found out something about one of our sons a few months ago. Nothing real bad but something he should have told me immediately. When he did tell me and I got upset at his keeping it from me he could not understand why I was upset.

      Because he continued the pattern of lying by omission. Not telling me what is going on with our son.

      So I we t back to my therapist in tears. Ready to just walk out and stop trying to fix it.

      Whenever I ask my H to go to counseling he declines. Even if it is to talk about our kids. He never gives it a thought. I ask him to consider it. Then I get no answer. Then I bring it up again and he says he hasn’t thought about it. So typical b/c he is afraid to face the truth about so much stuff.

      Hard to imagine I married a liar and a coward. The first thing that impressed me about him when i met him 32 years ago was his honesty and integrity.

    • Heartbroken

      Tryingtorecover, I know it’s over because he would talk to her at work, they worked together, but she got moved to a different location in April. He also leaves his phone laying around when he is out of the room which is something he never did before. Can I ever be completely sure that it’s over?………maybe not. But his actions say it is. I too contacted her in multiple occasions and learned much more from her then he would have ever told me. My problem is how do you recover from such a long period of time of him looking me straight in the eye and lying. It haunts me everyday!

      • tryingtorecover

        Heartbroken – I agree that it will take time, but it sounds like you’re beginning to trust him when he leaves the phone out. I think that’s a huge indicator when you see changes in his behavior – as each situation can be different. Sometimes I think we lose sight of this when we connect on this site because so much is similar!

        My husband’s OW moved to Colorado and they continued the EA and the distance actually created more romance… body selfie pics, professing love, her flying out to visit him secretly…Sadly, I felt reassured with her moving so I was mistaken.

        You ask how can you recover for years of lies when he had a straight face? I don’t know. My counselor suggested to just trust him and that I would know again as I did before and just to trust my gut sooner…Others suggested to just focus on me and improving my life. I think both are age advice. I came to the conclusion if they want to cheat they will. They can leave the phone out because there are secret apps that disguise texts, they can create secret emails…. yada…yada.. If there’s a will there’s a way, especially in this day and technological age.

        I think just taking care of yourself. Trusting yourself that you’ll know if he isn’t be true and honest, something is amiss, and that you’ll have the strength to address it, IF it occurs. Maybe even going to couples counseling and connecting on a deeper level where you two feel a closer bond will help improve your trust in yourself and your husband. We can’t just wish things to change we need to make them change actively. You can do this – it will just take positive energy, believing in yourself, and time. I’m sending positive thoughts your way!!!!!

        Lastly, an excellent audio book (on Amazon) that I’m listening to that is helping my healing process is: “Living and Loving After Betrayal: How to Heal from Emotional Abuse, Deceit, Infidelity and Chronic Resentment” by Steven Stosny. I’ve listened to it several times! It has exercises to help heal from PTSD, create positive thinking, self-compassion..and much more! I recommend this to anyone who has experienced an affair whether it be EA or PA. Since reading this book I’ve refinanced the car into my name alone, got a new job, and I’m putting my home on the market. I now value myself and know that I deserve happiness with out a critical and dishonest partner.

        I can have compassion for my husband, but not allow him to hurt me anymore. So many woman are able to move forward and forgive and forget – I believe it’s not only based on themselves, but their partner, their circumstance. It’s so personal! I can’t forget, my husband did’t put in 100 percent after D-day, and he continues to be critical of me.

        If I stayed with my husband I would always question his whereabouts, honesty, and exposed to passive aggressive “jokes” at my expense. I choose not to live like this, though I will always love him. You’ll find your answer internally with time….It’s a process that people can’t answer for you – it’s internal…trust the process and yourself. Warm thoughts.

        • Shifting Impressions

          This is such good advice…..thankyou so much for sharing.

    • Tabs

      You are oh so right, omission and silence are just as bad as lies. Not only does it impede reconciliation, but it makes me wonder if the CS actually feels remorse. When I receive nothing but silence to my questions, I wonder what is it he’s hiding. If I were to believe him, he just doesn’t want to dwell on the “bad” things he’s done. But isn’t that part of healing, understanding why you did something so painful to someone you supposedly love? My H absolutely refuses to go to counseling and that frustrates me. I’ve accepted what he’s done, why can’t he?

      I look back at the man I married. Our marriage used to be about “us”. But it’s now all about him. Wow, where did that the guy go?

    • Falling Ash

      Tabs – My OH says that when he is silent in response to something I say, it is because I have given him food for thought and he is thinking about it. Alternatively he is just “taking on the chin” some of my comments about his behaviour during the affair. Does your H never respond to anything?

      My OH and I went to counselling for a short period and found it very helpful. Of course that was before he lied about being being on her street again. I do wonder sometimes if I should go back for IC. I had a dreadful day last week, where I was completely back in my “pit” again. Clawing myself back out is sooooo exhausting when that happens.

      • Shifting Impressions

        Falling Ash
        I know exactly what you mean about falling completely back in that “pit” again. I have been trying to claw myself back all week. Somedays I think the tears should be done by now only to have them fall in full force again.

        My husband told me he wanted the “Happy Me” back……….well yes I want that too, maybe he should have thought of that before he destroyed me.

        Can you tell I’m still in that pit……..time to climb out.

        Something that has helped this week is to remind myself it that I have CHOICES. We really can’t allow our partner’s poor choices define us. And yes their continual avoidance of the complete truth, has such a negative impact. If they would be willing to give us that, this road to healing might not be quite as painful and long.

        • tryingtorecover

          I think we all get into that “pit.” A year later I experience it about once a week. I actually allow myself to sit there either for one full day and binge on netflix and cry or sporadic times throughout the week. I think it’s okay to take a time -out and feel the pain, but then to get back up and brush ourselves off.

          I hear you when it’s irritating to hear he wants some of the “old you as the happy you” back…. you were you and he cheated… he had the happy you! It’s easy to go there and get angry. When my husband (soon ex) says dumb comments like that I write it down in a journal rather than confronting him. I realized when I confronted him, he would defend himself. This just made me more enraged!

          • Shifting Impressions

            So good to hear I’m not alone and that so many of you understand that whole pit thing.

          • GracieD

            Dumbfuck wants the “old me” back. Too bad he killed her with his lies!

    • TheFirstWife

      Tabs. During my H’s first EA with grad school girl I confronted him over a 2 year period. I got the usual nothing is going on and then silence and no response to any questions.

      Lying by omission. My H has that down pat.

    • TheFirstWife

      Falling ash. I hope this doesn’t come across as too bold but when my H pulls the silent routine and he’s “thinking”. I say that is a load of crap.

      It is avoidance. Hoping I shut up and go away. No answer is what I call lying by omission.

      Being on her street – was it a legit reason that you accept? Or is it suspicious to you?

      I guess for me I don’t fear the OW from his past. I fear the next OW who is unknown.

      I swear they act like 3 year olds. Maddening!

    • Falling Ash

      First Wife – Yes it was for a legitimate work appointment, but he should have told me exactly where it was, not a vague area of the city. Every day we talk about our days to open up communication, so he should have been honest then. It was a week later that I found him out. He claims he lied to “protect” me from getting upset. I told him I don’t buy it, he was protecting himself, not me, and if he does it again he is out! This was 6 months ago.

      I do challenge him on the not responding thing. Mostly he is getting much better at talking and communicating with me about our issues/his affair. He still has a long way to go. Our recovery is still very much a work in progress. I have done lots of research and worked really hard over the 18 months since DDay. Now it is his turn to step up and prove he wants US to work!

    • HP

      This is my first time posting here.

      I believe I maybe or maybe not be the person Doug is referring to in his post.
      Doug has been very helpful over the last year or so since DDay.

      I am struggling with H’s possible contact with the OP, yes the affair is over and has been for over a year. His behaviour etc indicates this. He will not admit that there was any contact, I have tried different ways to get him to admit without success. Even asked him to leave which he said he would but not yet, admitting that he didn’t want to leave.

      My biggest mistake was not following through on my ultimatum, which I didn’t do as I had employment , supporting myself to consider and it wasn’t possible at this stage. So I buffed him and he bluffed right back and won.

      I believe that he is incapable of telling everything due to the consequences he thinks there will be even though I have tried all ways to get him to tell the truth. Personalities also I believe play a big part in the lying depending how strong a personality the CS has and if they think they can control you and fear allows us to let them do it. In my case after a year I know that I am stronger and my thought pattern has changed slightly. Not working on meeting his needs so much and my thinking is now more around would I be happier without him. I know he will never get it, he has the thought pattern of deny is the best policy. He will no doubt have his thinking around why that is , to not hurt me , not lose me etc but is unable to see the big picture. This may very well be what will end our marriage. and I don’t think he will change his thinking even if this happens.

      If I knew a year ago what I know now I would have kicked his arse to the street on DDay, and took my chances. But it is not easy, fear etc play a huge part, you don’t realise how much effort, stress , unhappiness is to come and there is still no end in site.!!

    • Falling Ash

      First Wife – sorry forgot to say, no you are not being too bold. It is good that I am challenged in case my thinking gets too complacent and I start getting naïve again. He lied to me for 8 years and I was oblivious to it all. I don’t want to go down THAT road again! Be as bold as you like.:-)

    • TheFirstWife

      Falling Ash. I just wonder sometimes what they are thinking. My H about 2 months after DDay 2 had a business trip to Florida. His phone auto dialed me and I hear him talking to a woman. (not the OW). Colleague.

      I had a shouting match with him b/c he never told me another female colleague would be there with you. He was mad b/c he did not see anything wrong. Yo dude you just got done cheating on me and you don’t think it is wise to tell me who is going?

      Right we have another issue between us. He thinks he is trying. I clearly do not. You just cannot make them see it from our perspective.

      Sometimes I think their attitude or approach is that we need to get over it. It is the past. No need to discuss it. Because they are good with it.

      That is why so many marriages do not survive infidelity. It is the aftermath that ruins it, and how the CS just doesn’t get it.

      • tryingtorecover

        I agree first wife- that the lack of understanding, compassion and unwillingness to change is a huge factor why numerous marriages fail after an affair.

        My husband and I went to marriage counseling after I found out about the affair and the counselor stated we both needed to invest “100 percent in rebuilding our marriage.” Although he no longer spoke to the OW, he said he needed to “take it slow” in rebuilding our relationship and take care of his own “mental health needs first.” Additionally, he was unwilling to allow me access to our family cell phone account – despite that’s how he contacted the OW and our three children are on the account. He was also unwilling to share a bank account with me, despite the fact he activated a debit card in my name and drained my savings of over 2500. secretly.

        Your husband is still lying- he’s lying by omission. To not share that a woman is on the trip is deceitful and the same behavior that enabled the affair to begin with. These poor boundaries, justification on their part, and dishonesty allow for an affair to blossom.

        I wish you the best, though it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders where you see he’s being dishonest.

      • tryingtorecover

        I respectfully disagree about the idea that “we need to get over it since it’s in the past.” We made marriage vows in the past to love, honor and be faithful….does this suggest that we should no longer respect what was said and not discuss it?

        When the cheater says it’s “in the past” or “just get over it” it’s their defense mechanism to deflect and put the issue on us. It’s not our issue – cheating is a choice! All marriages have issues, but we didn’t cheat.

        You have the right idea by acknowledging we can’t change other people nor how they think, however we don’t need to accept poor choices nor deflection.

        If I were you I’d approach in in a calm manner about this so he can’t minimize what he did and state how it affected you and in the future you’d appreciate his disclosure ahead of time. If he’s unwilling to at least you have a clear idea where your relationship is at. I think when we yell, bargain, shout… they can write us off as. You have very valid points!

    • TheFirstWife

      Falling Ash. I think you will know if something is amiss in the future. But I agree with you that he was only protecting himself by not telling you. Good insight.

      If they want to cheat they can get away with it. Apps, websites, secret email account, coming home a day later from a business trip than necessary, work functions, if they want to cheat they will.

      I don’t check up or do Ny of those spy things. But if I get suspicious and I ask the question, I expect the truth. Next time he knows there is no discussion. We are over.

      I lnow we are not supposed to take their cheating personally but it is hard not to. Damages your self esteem and your ability to trust for quite some time.

      • Shifting Impressions

        Oh, I’m going to take it personally…..as far as I’m concerned, it’s a direct hit. My world was blown apart and I’m not supposed to take it personally????? I know that’s probably what the experts say but I don’t buy it. I know I know….they say it isn’t about me, but that just makes me crazy!!!!!

        • tryingtorecover

          I used to take it personally often….I wasn’t as available since she was a stay at home mother. I wasn’t as wealthy, since she had expensive clothes, motorcycles, trips… How could he do this to me? Both my parents died I have no one, but this family…she has her entire family…I kept comparing myself…

          Sometimes I still do, not very often. I found it was making me go crazy. I was so hurt and offended that she’s ten years older than me, I thought there must be something really wrong with me if he wanted an old lady…I actually resorted to sending her free trials of adult diapers… It was insane.

          The only way I could get out of this endless loop of self hatred and blame was to put it on him where I believe the blame is deserved. tell myself “it’s not me, he’s not well and has serious addiction and attachment issues.”

          I don’t believe either one of you are to blame. It’s so easy to take it personally…it just was a toxin to me though and I became a woman I couldn’t face and didn’t recognize.

          Affairs do attack us personal level is so many facets…family, job, body image,self-esteem, as a woman/man, etc., Sadly it affects us so personally but it clearly is the cheaters issue! All marriages have issues and not all people cheat- we didn’t!

          Like I said – I too will occasionally take it personally, but I try my hardest not too because then I start to go back to that ugly place……

          You are amazing woman who didn’t deserve what happened! You both deserve an amazing person to love and cherish you!! When we get cheated on we are cheated out of good partners, marriages, family, bonds, trust…bad stuff does happen to good people.

        • Strengthrequired

          Shifting, the Cs always seem to make it all about us, as to us being the reason for them cheating, then you have the ap making it all about us too, so how do you not take it personally? It definately is personal,

          • Strengthrequired

            Yet no matter how personal it is to us, it wasn’t our problem, it wasn’t our issues, it was our Cs who had the issues finding ways to give them a reason that it was ok to cheat, because making it the bs problem made it easier to look themselves in the face each time. It’s not about us, it’s about a Cs doing what they want to make themselves feel better, yet it definately is personal at the time. My husband told me how he just wanted to hurt me. So can’t argue with that not being a personal blow.

            • tryingtorecover

              It definitely hurts on a personal level… it may always, I’m not sure if it goes away. What I believe though is the affair is their issue…not our personal deficiency – it’s their defect in their character and moral fiber. If your husband said he did it to hurt you, I can understand why it hurt you personally, however he has serious issues to go out of his way to hurt a person he promised to love and honor. I think the cheater uses many excuses to define what they did and to say he wanted to hurt you is to deflect and give you responsibility for his heinous act. If he’s dishonest and had an affair maybe he’s lying about “getting back at you” so he puts blame on you?

              My husband said that he never had feelings for her despite talking to her for years, exchanging body pictures, saying he loved her, should have been with her, met up with her and her kids, told her he planned to leave me, told her he worked out for her and did marathons for her, the last thing he wants to see before he dies is her laughing face…..I just find what any cheaters says hard to believe…..

            • Strengthrequired

              Tryingtorecover, I agree with you that it is the cheaters deficiency, as well as the lacking of the ow, yet as soon as they involved the bs, your children, your marriage it definately becomes personal.
              My husband also says he was never intending on leaving me, although he definately had her believe he was also. The things this ow used to do to just get me away from my husband so her dream could become a reality. She also wanted my children, my home, my place as my husbands wife, so if that isn’t personal I don’t know what is.
              So I do not take blame on what my husband chose to do, no matter how personal, it’s on him, he owns it. I definately didn’t believe all he said, of course it was his way of justifying his actions, yet it really would have been nice if none of it ever happened.
              I can definately say, it wasn’t my husband who did those terrible things, there was someone else in his place.
              Also he may have wanted to hurt me in the beginning, but that is as far as that excuse could go, because his next excuse, as many other Cs say, is he didn’t want to hurt her, wow how sweet. How humane.
              Yet he wasn’t my husband during that time, he was some stranger I didn’t know.
              Thankfully now he resembles my husband again.

            • GracieD

              Well, in my case it was very personal. OW even engaged a lawyer to see if they could take the house if they kept our youngest son. My father had the foresight to arrange that the house (which was a family inheritance) was held in a trust and rented to us at a peppercorn rent. As soon as he heard he couldn’t take the house, or even half of it, he turned up, after claiming that any affair was all in my head, all in a rage screaming “you f**cked me up”. Oh and yes. She lost interest and slept with a few of his friends.

            • Rachel

              Tryingtorecover, you are Spot on with your comment!

    • TheFirstWife

      Trying to recover. Same exact scenario. Did not love her.

      Saw it in numerous emails.

      Was divorcing me to be with her – he told me about divorce but not about her.

      He was soooo concerned about her stress and mental breakdown Caused her to run away for the weekend. Such drama. All concerned about her feelings. Not so much mine.

      Told me I only married him for revenge on my parents (as his way to justify the affair). I did not respond to that until years later.

      Sent her photos of our children.

      So either you didn’t love her and it was infatuation or you were leaving me for a younger woman that you did not love at all. Either way makes me feel special.

    • Tabs

      What aggravates me are the lies my H tells himself. His EA with a very young OW (2 years younger than our daughter) was on the verge of becoming a PA when I found out about the first OW. Yes, he was trying to seduce a second OW while still pursuing his first OW. My H claims that he had no intentions of sleeping the second OW. I’m positive she didn’t see it that way. She flirted and sexted him continuously, everyday, morning, noon, and night. They were suppose to travel to Taipei for “work”. How does this not turn into a PA?

      Another lie, which my H still won’t admit is his very sporty mercedes slc. He said it was just an OK sports cars and that there are much sporty ones out there. And of course there are. But his buddy always called his car the “babe magnet”. It was a mid-life crisis sports cars. Every time I bring up that point, he denies it. It was just a good deal. Liar Liar, pants of fire!

      Question to all. If you could read your H’s “private” journal, would you? My H has kept a journal on his ipad and I “found” his password. The file starts right at the beginning of his PA with his first OW. On one hand, it’s been four years since the second Dday. But on the other, my H refuses to talk about anything. I could be in and out without him even knowing.

    • Strengthrequired

      Tabs, I think what you need to ask yourself is this.
      Will reading it make you feel any better?
      Will it bring up something you didn’t want to know?
      Do you think it will benefit you, will it benefit your marriage, or will the information be just enough to break you and your marriage?
      Knowing me, I probably find it hard not to read, in which case I would need to ask myself these questions.

    • Falling Ash

      Tabs – My OH’s OW was 23 when he met her… only 2 years older than my daughter, less than half my age and many years younger than him. When OH and I first got together (I am quite a few years older than him) I confessed my fear that he would one day dump me for a “younger model”. He swore at the time, and many times since that this would NEVER happen! Yet another kick in the teeth that this is exactly what he did do. Re your H’s blog…I did read my OH’s journal. It caused me pain, but I am glad I did. Not advocating you do it though, just saying I did. The temptation was just too great for me.

    • TheFirstWife

      I did read the emails the OW sent to me on revenge mode. Glad I did. Otherwise I would have continued to be lied to.

      Two months ago I told my H “I know you made the first move to start the relationship” b/c I saw the email. His email to her to get together to discuss work. At the Blue Note jazz club in NYC. Yup I go there all the time to discuss work with random guys.

      So I am glad I read the emails. I know exactly where I stand. And how he was planning to leave me. He would never admit that to me except I had proof.

      So typical cheater remained a liar even after the fact. black & white proof sometimes is the only thing that stops the lying.

      My favorite email trail is where he is convincing her that his friends will love her and accept her b/c they are together. If he lives her then ALL his friends would love her.

      My H now admits how flawed that thinking is.

      If I didn’t read the emails I would not have known how much my disability played a roll.

      Whatever it I would rather know the truth. 100%.

      • tryingtorecover

        “Tabs”- to your question… I agree with “Strength”- first ask yourself serious questions. “What’s your motivation?” “What is the purpose?” “How will this benefit you?” “Will you be able to heal after reading this information?” “Is this for self-punishment or to punish him or healing?”

        If you’re willing to work on your marriage, I wouldn’t. It seems that it would only bring up more pain and not move your marriage forward. That said – if you’re on the fence and question his sincerity then and presently, I would. I wish I had the opportunity to read any texts or emails he corresponded with the OW…I’m envious of any person who had this chance..I think it would have helped see their relationship in context…not his distorted “we’re just friends” lens. I was on the fence though. I was unsure if I wanted to exert energy in rebuilding or if there was too much toxicity that I had to move on.

        Everyone on this site has a common bond, however we all had some uniqueness to our personal affair story..My husband had an EA on and off with the same woman for a decade, stole money from my and our children’s bank accounts, ran with a drug dealer, and hid credit card debt. I discovered all of this in one week and was shell shock. So I wanted to know everything in order to make a determination if I was to invest time into him any more.

        My point is…you have to see where you’re at in your marriage… If you want it to work and things are going well in your marriage, don’t look. Take care of yourself, do things that bring you joy and you’re passionate about. If you’re on the fence, unsure if he’s honest, and you would seriously leave, then look to make a determination. It boils down to – what would be the purpose? Ask yourself.

        • Shifting Impressions

          That is really good advice. When I first discovered my husband’s EA I went into shock. He had left an email account open which I stumbled on purely by accident. I skimmed the emails and started shaking and called him on the phone. He came home from work immediately. He did not deny but as soon as my back was turned he deleted the whole account. I would give anything to go back and go through those emails more thoroughly. I probably would have seen things that would have been painful…..I saw enough as it was, but I would have had more information and a better picture of what REALLY HAPPENED. The content of those emails have haunted me for almost two years now, as I searched to put all the pieces together.

          I have finally come to the conclusion that he is NOT going to give me anymore pieces to the puzzle and he is NOT going to go to counseling with me and he is NOT going to educate himself on infidelity. I told him those are three major roadblocks for me but to no avail. I even told myself those were deal breakers, but realized that I am not willing to give an ultimatum on these particular issues.

          Were he to start up another EA or go back to the OW………….I don’t believe I could go through this again. If I had a chance to read those emails today I know I would.

          I have decided to stop trying to put all the pieces together….I told him this, because It is too easy to become obsessed with the search. Time to go for individual counseling….time to care for me. Time to let go of the search. I probably need help letting go.

          • Tabs

            I understand exactly where you are coming from. I told my H as loudly and concisely as I can. If anything were to start up again, I’d have to “quit” the marriage just because I don’t think I could go through “this” one more time.

        • GracieD

          I’d rather know …

    • TheFirstWife

      Strength. I sometimes wonder why if the CS “hates” us so much and is so unhappy why don’t they leave? Why is cheating the solution?

      I believe all I read that my H wrote to the OW. So why not just leave? In my mind cheating is having one foot out the door already.

      My H’s mid life crisis was exactly that. A mid life crisis. I turned 50 and 40 and 30 no problem. He always complained about each decade. So I have said in the past 2 years if you want to leave go ahead. But clean up the crap you left behind first. But he would swear he didn’t want to leave.

      I think they get to a point where they don’t know what they want. Funny thing is I do know my future and I do have plans. My sons may not return home from college and I am ok with that. I don’t have a choice.

      I think my H is motivated by money. He wants to earn more and retire soon. I think he earns s good living and could retire comfortably some day, after college for kids.

      I have never complained about $. He has. so I think his triggers are age, career, status, $. So how does a much much younger OW fix that?

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, I don’t think they hated us, even though it seemed very much like they did. I think with my husband he was expecting things to be different at that particular stage of his life, and because they were t the logical solution was to place blame onto me, with the help of the ow, so his anger towards me just built up.
        i had a set back yesterday, we went to a wedding and there were a couple of women I was concerned about seeing, one knows my Cs ow, so of course I wondered on how much they knew about my h relationship with the ow. I had a hello from one, nothing from the other, and that was it. I didn’t know many people yet those I didn’t know didn’t make me feel as uncomfortable as these two women. I mentioned how they were to my h, yet he still went and had s laugh with them. In the end I just left, I just couldn’t stand it any longer.
        Last night made me feel like I just didn’t belong with my h. I get tired of feeling like some sort of leapor and my h is a saint and deserving of better.
        My h said he doesn’t care what people think, yet I believe he thinks it is ok for him to laugh with people that treat me like I don’t exist, as long as no one is treating him that way.
        I don’t know why I let them affect me the way they did, yet it did.
        Right now I feel alone in this world. Like my h is here, everybody sees him, acknowledges him, but I’m in spirit only, pretending to be visible.

      • chely5150

        Cuz it’s “cheaper to keep her” is (I imagine) the reason why my cheating bastard has not left. Yes we are still together (4 years from d-day) and in many ways things are going well. We do many trips, dinners, baseball games and family things, actually renewed vows, gave me new expensive ring took me to the place he originlly proposed (our sons grown but live at home still), so from outside looking in we have moved past it. But it’s the feeling that he is still so disconnected, never cared how this discovery made me feel, never wanted to address the things that led to the affair (claims never physical, but i DO NOT believe that, plus it may have been going on 10 years or more). He claims that he has no contact, but i just don’t know-too many opportunities (works 2 hrs away and must drive right past where she works and lives everyday) he is a very accomplished liar-just too many things don’t add up. I also believe she may just be one of many. The gps is really not much help-sometimes i think he drives around in strange patterns just to confuse me as im pretty sure he knows i have it on his car. I still don’t know what to do my gut wont shut up but i do love him and was willing to forgive the past but its the present that has me wondering everyday. I mean doesnt a man who says he wants to stay together do everything in his power to show you he means what he says? His actions just dont match his words, it’s always poor him who has it so bad (long commute, long hours no time to accomplish anything at home except what he chooses). Everyday i grow further away from loving him, but after 22 years -i dont want to start over (i went back to work, workout after losing 50 lbs after d-day, but im tired of catering to his needs and whims, while he doesnt seem to care about my needs). Im lost and not sure what to do – i look at my mom -alone and unhappy or his mom who stayed through their mess and lives a good life in retirement only to hear a glimpse that she still worries that he may be unfaithful. All I really want is the truth, and maybe to hear him say that he is so glad that i didnt leave him and follow through on his words. Affairs destroy forwhat? To get his rocks off? The fun of the pursuit? To have cake and eat it too? Have I become too obsessed too actually see things clearly? The mountains of evidence that just doesn’t make sense and the technology that now makes cheating SO easy to hide, and the number of womenon these hook up sights just willing to have a quick fuck are more than we deserve. Maybe im a coward, too co-dependant to leave. But why does he stay? Im useful, what better excuse then not being able to commit to any of them than a mentally crazy wife at home. Yes poor him, I’d like to go lorena bobbitt on him -make him sorry he ever tangled with me. But don’t worry IM NOT CRAZY-and he’s not worth going to jail for. I want to wakeup from this nightmare!!

        • Shifting Impressions

          Remember you always have choices…..there’s power in that thought. For now maybe you can focus on self-care and maybe finding a counselor just for you.

          And yes it can all be so exhausting…..

    • Ann

      The First Wife. I like you never complained about $. I was happy in our life, and like your husband mine also hated turning 50, he started the first affair in 2011 and left me for her in 2013. After 6 months living in her building she ended things and he went online and found someone else.
      I took him back in 2014 when he told me things were over with the second OW, but I now know they never were.
      He has kept lying from the day he started the first affair, but when I look back there have always been lying about this or that.
      He still texts the second OW when she gets a hold of him, and another d day begins for me. At this stage of the game I am working on my plan B, unless one day he actually gets things and really starts working on the marriage.
      I believe his triggers are also not enough money, no big house, wants 3 sport cars and a huge shop to put them in, and lots of land.

    • Tabs

      Isn’t amazing what motivates a middle aged man? But, you forgot one item: Ego. Put a notch on the bedpost cause he got himself a much younger OW. Sadly, what the family will remember are his infidelities. My daughter, who is my biggest supporter, sees her father a hypocrite. Here is another lie to himself. He won’t acknowlege the fact that his kids know all about his affairs. How awful is that?!

    • TheFirstWife

      Ann. I feel for you. That is just awful treatment. Glad to hear you have a Plan B.

      Which is why I would always advocate (for me) to want to read the journal or texts or emails.

      It opened my eyes to the kind of H I have. And not the person I thought he was.

      To use my disability against me and as a basis for part of his unhappiness is startling.

      And even though he swears it was that only time I just have a hard time believing it. I mean no one expects to get sick or come down with a disease or have a life altering accident BUT what about staying together through thick and thin? I would never abandon him if he became mentally ill or physically ill or incapacitated.

      I am glad to hear you are moving forward. Living well is the best revenge you can have. Whether with him or without him. ?

      • Ann

        The First wife and I feel for you and all of us on this site.
        I started a Plan B with the first affair but put it on the back burner when things ended with her until I find out he was still involved with the second OW.
        I have read many emails and texts from both affairs, but it’s the second OW who had the nerve to write me a letter 4 months ago telling me that I am abusing my power as his wife and to let him go so he can be happy.
        Trying to tell me that in our business that my H and I started it is all my CH money and his business. She then tells me he doesn’t love me and do the right thing and let him go.
        She goes onto say I am using my disability to keep him. Most people don’t even know I have one and have never used it to hold him back.
        When I received this letter from her I told him to read it, which he did not and all he said was she was crazy, but I still reminded him where the door is.
        I decided the other day that each day he is in contact with her the price of my half of the business goes up that he will have to pay me to exit the business, which I think I want to do so that I will have no more contact with him.
        I know all she wants is HIS money which he has none, because she hates her life and is resentful of her husband leaving her with 3 kids.

    • TheFirstWife

      Tabs. That is terrible that he don’t even sdmit to himself his children know. Mine fo not but they are teens. Would not understand.

      Shifting Impressions. My H refuses to go to counseling as well. I went for 12 months and now when needed. It is so funny how there are so many people (mostly women) that have CS who will not go to therapy. But then the BS does all the work to repair.

      Glad I am not in this boat alone. Funny thing is I think if you polled the CS they would swear they are working hard on the marriage. And the BS would swear their spouse is really not. What irony.

      I got do fed up with the disrespect from my kids and H last weekend that I am now calling it quits regarding the housework and chores. If I use it I clean it or put it away. Other than that they are on their own. My H did not support me on something with my son I threw in the towel.

      I don’t discipline or ask them to do anything. I did not cook dinner or food shop or laundry (except my own). I have now put my H in charge of all of it. I plan on a very nice weekend these next 2 days. H is away for 3 days and I plan on enjoying my boycott to the fullest.

      Hair salon, nail salon, eat out, shop, lay in a lounge chair and read a book. Role reversal is a beautiful thing.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, how true….

    • TheFirstWife

      Ann. Okay I feel bad for you. Like you I have a hidden disability. Most people would not know and my H could leave tomorrow and I would be ok.

      Your H’s OW and mine both sound like they are cut from the same cloth. Her revengeodr was to make me mad (by sending me the emails) so I would throw him out and she could have him. He was already over her the day I found out DDay2.

      If I were you I would call the OW with my H in the room and politely tell her the following:

      Miss (fill in the blank ): “You seem to be under some ill conceived notion that I control another person. That is far from reality. I have told my H he can certainly divorce me to be with you. However he has yet to start the divorce proceedings. So please know that I am not keeping him from you. You would have to ask him why he has not yet divorced me.

      Oh and by the way I am entitled to my fair share of our business. I hope you can financially survive on his share. Because after the divorce he will have less to support you with. Alimony will take a large part of his income.”

      And when I hing up the phone I epuld calmly tell the soon to be Ex-H to leave and you will be filing ASAP.

      And document everything. Living well is the best revenge.

      • Strengthrequired

        Ann, tfw, I believe my h ow is cut from your ow cloth too. Yet instead of emails, she would get others to call me, or do other things to get into my h head when she saw he wouldn’t leave me, she also had people call him to make up stories about me. In the hopes of one of us throwing in the towel.

    • Ann

      Yes I have often thought about confronting her and letting her know that “her man” as she calls him is not all she makes him out to be, but that is because he painted a wonderful picture about himself to her.
      What you have written is perfect for me to say to her, and to my CH.
      SR- thank you also for your response as well.
      I had the doorbell ring at 10:00 at night awhile back and when I went to answer the door, no one was there. Umm never happened to me before.
      Quite pathetic how two grown people will act and say things to win each other over while they lie about themselves and try to tear their spouse down in the process.
      Well off to a Thanksgiving dinner here in Canada at my in laws who love me by the way, and would really be disgusted by their sons actions.

      • Strengthrequired

        Ann, sorry for you are going through. Do you know what you are going to do? Do you plan on staying or leaving? You are right that you don’t have anything to do with how your husband is, it is on him? The ow believe we are automatically the worse wives ever, but that is there way of justifying playing around with a married man. Of course they want to believe that we are holding our husbands away from them, that our poor husbands are being tied up and held against their will, because why else hasn’t the husband left the wife, when they have such strong true love waiting for them with the ow. They are a goddess compared to us, so why would our husbands choose to stay with us, when they are so madly inlove with the ow, and they clearly are the better choice. They don’t want to believe that we have told them to leave if the ow is so important to them, if they can’t decide that we will decide for them.

    • TheFirstWife

      Ann your story is truly a nightmare. SR yours too. It is bad enough our spouses cheat but you are both dealing with a whole other level of crazy. I thought my H had a crazy OW but she could only get to me via her blog. Her emails were blocked and her phone number as well.

      She did try for round 3 with my H but my H refused to answer her. Them the revenge.

      But after that I never heard from her again.

      I know from other women who post that the OW believes all the lies and crap that our CHs tell them. It is our fault we are keeping the “soul mates” apart. How stupid are these women? I guess they are stupid and gullible and clueless.

      My question to anyone who wants to answer is this: does your husband’s family know about his affairs/OW? My H’s family knows nothing as he has refused to tell them. I hold my family right after DDay2 as I was certain I was leaving him. My H has not admitted it to anyone except a few random girls (I don’t know them) that he knew from grad school.

      Gee see a pattern here? He comes across as very opens and honest with everyone else. What a facade. So fake.

      • Done With Denial

        Oh I told my mother-in-law immediately when I found out for sure in January. She was visiting us for the holidays (early December) when my husband allowed her to use his computer. That is when I took the opportunity to look at his history, etc. It’s when I knew something was off. I shared that information with her because we are very close and I knew he would never tell her anything. I needed an ally. Then full disclosure to her when I gathered evidence. I also told his brother all of the details that my H did not disclose to him initially. I thought if the family knew, they would talk sense to him. They tried, but it didn’t matter. He kept right on with his addiction. My family and friends know. It didn’t stop him, but now he says it’s my fault that “our circle of friends has been obliterated” because I opened my big mouth. He’s cutting them all out because he won’t be accountable to them for his choices. Wow. Just wow.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, I don’t understand why I let these people get to me, yet I am definately over it. I should be used to how these people are by now, but now since my husband has cheated, I just don’t feel like tolerating it. I used to just be nice and try hard to ignore the behaviours towards me for the sake of my husband, didn’t want to have arguments with my husband over it. Now I don’t want to argue over it, I just want him to know how I feel and him stand by me. I don’t want him to talk to them about it, I just want him to listen to me and take my word for it, and for him to not engage in conversations with them, when they show little respect for me.
        As for your question in relation to whether the cheating spouses family know about the affair, the answer for me is yes. They knew of my husbands affair, they probably know even more than I do, because the ow is a relative of theirs. So lucky me. Sarcasm……

    • Falling Ash

      TFW – My OH’s family don’t know anything about his affair. I have been so tempted to tell them but his parents are elderly and have health problems so I have restrained myself, more for their sake than his. I haven’t told ANYONE what I am going through except the MC we went to for a while, so this blog is now my only outlet.

    • Ann

      Yes I know my story is a nightmare, it turned into one the day I found out what I thought was truly a great marriage but in the end it is not. I did read somewhere that the CH I have now is truly his true colors coming out. So the man I met 25 years ago was not his true self and what he is today is what he really is.
      Even though it took about 15 years when things started to turn and I noticed things he wasn’t doing or saying anymore before the affairs began. But maybe there had been another affair before these two that I know about began.
      I remember asking him to talk but he never wanted to or he just sat in silence.
      Truly it’s just sad, but I know it’s not my problem when all I ever did was love him, support him and be there for him, but I was still not enough for him.

    • TheFirstWife

      Ann and Strength. It is not that we are not good enough for our CHs. It is we are too good for them.

      They don’t appreciate the love and kindness we have bestowed upon them all these years.

      Yes we ask them to be a good H & father and supporter. Not with $ but emotionally and lovingly.

      I guess that is too much to ask of a partner.

      So they find another woman or women to give them their emotional support and adoration. When it was right in front of them all along but they were too blinded to see it.

      I think for some of these guys it is like an addiction. They get that high from the infatuation and “bad boy behavior”. Like being in school and cutting class. Ooohhhh you got away with something. That is what the affair is like. Illicit. Exciting. Alluring.

      Unfortunately the wives are better than that. We live in the real world. Not some phony made up fantasy-land.

      So I think we all face some tough challenges ahead. But at least we can hold our head up and look in the mirror and know we are better than the lying OW our H’s ran to.

    • Strengthrequired

      Tfw, the only addicted behaviour my husband showed was during his affair. He was very addicted to her, never before have I seen anything like it with him. Thanks midlife crisis for that blow. Yet I have to say the change in him since then has been huge, I honestly didn’t think that he would ever let her go, and was even more amazed on how long it took to let her go.
      one thing I am glad about is that the more time that has been put between them, the better he has become, the more clearer his mind became.
      I often wonder why the men don’t listen when we their wives tell them that to be careful, as this person has an agenda, u til they have already been sucked in.

    • Tryingtorecover

      I agree first wife- I believe most affairs are behavioral addictions. There’s limerance… Feeling like they found true soul mate: the high from that. Of course she’s so perfect, he sees her at her best and they both only reveal that. She definately didn’t hear my husbands gas every morning or his groan to get phlegm out of his throat..

      I also agree that you pointed out an addiction to bring a “bad boy.” My husband has serious attachment issues due to the relationship he had with his alcoholic mother. She was controlling and he basically worked for her in a sense. I believe he transferred his maternal anger and resentment into me, hence when he cheated he was in control.. Not listening to “mom” per se. Even when I asked him why this occurred since I requested he not be connected to her since she’s being gifts to him at work.. His response ” I wanted to make my own decisions and be he friend.” I was shocked at how it sounded like such a child like response to mommy.

      I think there are so many layers to affairs and it’s easy to say just mud life crisis, but I think it’s connected to what was modeled to them as children, morals taught, attachment issues, addiction issues, mental health issues (narcisstic personality disorder) and more.

    • Rachel

      Trying to recover, I love the last paragraph you posted.
      You are absolutely correct.

    • TheFirstWife

      Done with Denial (DWD). Wow that is awful. Cutting out your friends so he won’t feel ashamed or embarrassed?

      I guess he doesn’t really care how this affair affects you. It is truly all about him.

      So sorry for you.

    • TheFirstWife

      Done (DWD). I too had to call the OW to get details and info. My H came and admitted first affair and I gave him credit for admitting a mistake. Still in the fog of how perfect the OW was, she called 6 weeks later and they were back together.

      Thoug I did not know about round2. He used every opportunity to deceive and lie. He was good at it. Never home late. Nothing out of the ordinary routine. Secret email account. No texts or calls as he knew I could see it on my wireless account.

      When he told me 2x in 8 days about divorcing me I knew something was up but had no idea she was still in the picture.

      Finally on divorce day 2 I picked up the phone and called her. She told me they were together the past 4 months.

      I thanked her for her honesty and treated her with courtesy and respect.

      So I feel for you. Having to be beholden to the OW to find out details about your CH is just the worst.

      Then the OW decided to get revenge AT ME by posting things on her blog about me. The funniest is the time she wrote how she could never stay with a guy who cheated and how wives who do that are stupid and clueless. BTW she was so ready to take my place, thinking she was going to be a step mom to my children. Hahahaha like that would happen.

      In any event DWD I think that scenario adds a different level of pain and frustration in having to ask the OW for anything. I feel lucky to have gotten the info I did. Otherwise I epuld have believed half the crap my H tried to tell me.

      A few of his lies :

      1. I don’t know how it started. Well ISO b/c I saw the email where you asked her for drinks at the Blue Note Jazz Club.

      2. I saw the emails where he tried to convince her his friends would live and accept her. He initially told me she was writing that to him. Duh. Black & white proof my H wrote it to her.

      3. How he spent the night in her apartment after lying about coming home from Chicago on business. He told me he would be home Wed. He flew home Tuesday to see her. She told me that.

      4. I threw my H a surprise 50th b’day to prove how special he was. She celebrated with him the day before his b’day. So now his b’day is ruined for me.

      And my H would have lied about all of this to save his neck. If he had told me instead of subjecting me to 18 months of repeated lies including him swearing he did not love her (when I saw it in his emails to her) we would have been over this already.

      Instead it is dragging on b/c I feel alone and distrustful of everyone.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tfw, how funny, my husbands ow said to him, “why does she not just leave us alone? If my husband was cheating on me, there is no way I would stay”.
        When my husband told me that, I said see, yet you still think she is wonderful, she wouldn’t even fight for her marriage if you were her husband and were cheating on her.
        This was at the beginning of his affair, so it didn’t matter what she said, or even what I said, it just didn’t sink in. He still thought she was so wonderful.

        • Strengthrequired

          Thw, honestly if it wasn’t for all the continued lies during the affair, it too wouldn’t be dragging on like it is for me too. I too feel distrustful of everyone, your not alone how you feel there.
          Ohh and the ow had her son tell people my son knew that they were brothers, my son was so offended, he couldn’t believe what he was hearing when his friends asked him if it was true. As I said, she truly thought she had taken my spot as wife and mother, that she was just waiting for my husband to make his move, she even started using our surname.
          People who knew my husband and I, used to tell her, what are you doing with him, find someone else? She would turn to them and say, “no, he loves me, he does not love his wife. When they responded with, “no, that is where you are wrong, he loves his wife, he will not leave her for you. She would then get angry with them and walk off.
          I think that then just made her more determined to keep trying.

    • Tryingtorecover

      First wife- i can relate to so much of what you shared. It is an awful feeling to be beholden to the ow. I think it’s a power trip for them and they feel another sense of power from this. However, I would have never learned things from my husband so I too reached out and I don’t regret it.

      the ow said the same thing to me: that she couldn’t stay with a man who did this: had an emotional affair! Not only did she do this to her husband and expect him to stay with her currently. She stated that she believed if she and her husband did break up my husband was her back burner husband.

      I found a term in the internet that rang true for my ow and may for others on this site. Some ow could be called “spider women.” Getting involved with married men to break a marriage and to have power over an “emotionally regarded” man and hurt the wife. This ultimately gives them satisfaction because in their own last a man deeply hurt them for another woman and it’s pure revenge.

      My husbands ow actually shared this with me after she said she wouldn’t stay with a cheater- how she was so betrayed by her first true love in high school.

      Lastly – she can have my husband and he can have her. They aren’t together. My husband actually hates her now after reading what she wrote about him and vice versa. ( I did enjoy sharing that after they both blamed the other and he called her dumb). I don’t want my husband to “win.” My happiness and children are more valuable than winning a game with a narcisstic, dishonest, immoral woman. I win when I choose myself over him.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tryingtorecover, I have seen that term for the ow “spider woman”. I do believe that it suited my husbands ow to a “T”. My husband was emotionally vulnerable, and well she never liked me being with him. My husband used to tell me how she blamed him for him not being there rescuing her from her husband. How crazy is this, he actually accepted the blame and carried it on his shoulders for her, that’s how manipulative she was with hm.

    • Ann

      TFW Yes we are better than our CH and we can hold our heads up high and I do, but I also say that I am better than the two of them combined.
      Yes it is also like an addiction for him, she has sworn at him in a text and weeks later she is back and they are wooing one another once again.
      I told him that if he leaves me for her, and they have a huge fight she will swear at him again and again because it has already happened in their texting. We would never swear at one another when we had a disagreement.
      I ask him do you want that? he then says no but gets right back into the so called “loving feelings” for her which I then tell him it’s not love but lust you feel.
      Trying to recover
      My husband also has alcohol issues in his family, his father a alcoholic and his mother has been hit by his father when my husband was young. Then my husband had to help his mother with the mortgage while his father lay on the couch drunk. I knew none of this until we were married.
      Now my husband drinks and I also have to deal with that issue. So I say let the OW deal with all his issues as I say enough already.
      All of you have a great day.

      • Strengthrequired

        Ann, my husband would tell me how all they did was fight and argue, he never went through anything like it with me. He said how stressful it would be, but he would just keep going back for more. All. That drama, who wants it, and who just keeps going back for more? Not me, I can’t stand all that drama. I used to say to him, that there would be no way you could live with someone like that, he wasn’t one for drama, and he would agree with me, and now even tells me how the grass is definately not greener on the other side. He used to even tell her that she needed to admit herself into mental health hospital, that she was just crazy.

        • Ann

          All the words my husband says to me about the OW is either “she’s crazy” or she’s nuts”. But will continue texting or sexting her and loves all the drama that she brings to the table.
          I like you can’t stand drama and never gave my husband any of it but I guess he truly does love it along with the ego boost he gets from all the attention she gives him.
          He has even been told by his friends that all she wants is my life, and that she is nuts but he just keeps going back for more drama, until one day I may not be here to pick up the pieces, because for now he knows I am always here for him.
          I do believe that if it were not for me he would have nothing, because when I met him he had nothing.
          Hope you all are having a great day.

    • Heartbroken

      Quick silly question…..why do some of you refer to your spouse as OH? Just wondering.

      • Strengthrequired

        I would assume that means “other half”

        • Falling Ash

          Yes it does mean “Other Half”…well in my case it does. We are not legally married, but I always thought we were in our hearts. As Joni Mitchell sang “We don’t need no piece of paper from the City Hall keeping us tied and true”. Only seems that wasn’t the case with my OH.

          • Strengthrequired

            Fallingash, I’m with you, you do need need a piece of paper. Even a lot of married people call their spouses their other half. Your man was taken, the ow got involved with a man that was not single, plain and simple.

            • Falling Ash

              Strength – Yes she did, and because she occasionally asked him how I was, that made her “innocent” in meeting with my OH behind my back…well in HER mind it did! It has taken me well over a year for my OH to see that what she did was evil and wrong and she most definitely was complicit in his affair.

            • Strengthrequired

              Fallingash, one day I caught my h down the park with the ow, among other words being said in front of so many people, I told my h he could have her that they deserved each other, that I was leaving with our children. I went home, by the time I entered my bedroom my h was home. She was so happy when I walked away that day, but when my h followed me she said to him, ” yes run to her, you always run to her” she cried and cried, yet he left her at the park to stop me from leaving. Not long after that she called him to ask if he was alright, I think to see if I had left him. All for her own self purpose.

    • TheFirstWife

      It seems like they jump into quicksand with these affairs and cannot fight their way out.

      Also I think they get caught up in something and it just takes on a life of its own. They feel needed and want to help it rescue the OW from her poor terrible life. That is how my H Git sucked in. The OW had a string of bad relationships and no one was nice to her. Boohoo?

      And in the end it is all very typical and cliched. And we, the innocent spouse and families and children, suffer the fall out.

      • Strengthrequired

        Exactly, my husband just wanted to help her too. She gave him so many sob stories about her life, and he just couldn’t help but feel sorry for her.

      • Ann

        Yes TFW.
        This affair,It is like quicksand and he doesn’t realize how much is at stake here, but one day he will and it may be too late.
        But while he may be suffocated by the quicksand now, he still should have the sense in him to make a good choice and get out, so I do believe he chooses not to try to get out of the quicksand, possibly because he knows that I am always here, and knows the OW will be there for him on the other side of the fence so he has the best of both worlds.
        For now.

    • Heartbroken

      My H’s family knows because I insisted that he call them and tell them about it after the 2nd D day. It didn’t do any good to stop the EA because they just supported him and told him it was all his fault! What???? How did I cause him to start texting a much younger woman from work and share over 1800 texts with her in 6 weeks. That’s when I found a picture of her on his phone. What a dumb ass!!! I checked phone records after that but he just downloaded a secret app that you can use to text and not have it show up on your bill. Sneaky! I would have never know about the app if the OW hadn’t told me about it. I didn’t get the chance to read any of the texts so I’m clueless as to much of what he said to her. I guess I will never know because he refuses to fill me in. If I had the chance I would read every last one. I deserve to know what was said about me and how big or small the EA was.

    • Heartbroken

      Supposed to say “wasn’t all his fault”.

      • Strengthrequired

        Heartbroken, those apps seem to be a big thing in helping cheaters cheat. My husband started using it too for his affair.

    • CBb

      Okay after reading some of the stories here I really have not much to complain about.

      The fact that the OW started using the same surname is crazy! Her son is telling kids in school that they are brothers is insane!

      The OW is a prostitute and drug addict is horrible.

      The OW calls the wife and tells het that she is abusing her power as a wife! This is like something out of a bad TV movie.

      My H had an affair. She caused some drama but nothing like what I have read here.

      • Strengthrequired

        CBb, my son was out of school, a young adult, these were friends that my son went to school with, that the ow son told. Crazy, that’s for sure, do you see why I needed to get away from it all, I just was losing my coping skills. So we moved, I saw my husband on a weekend sometimes every second weekend, which in a way gave us both time, especially my husband to start thinking about what he had done to us, what she was doing to us, yet being away from him was hard, and wasn’t what I thought would happen, I expected him to be home everyday, and when he wasn’t, it almost broke us. I almost left to go even further away with my children, but then I found here doing and Linda, and somehow I found the strength to keep trying.
        I found I wasn’t alone, and that there are people out there tha are going through or have been through what I have, that they are dealing with ap like I am, and the Cs is doing and saying similar things to what mine did, yet most marriages still survive.
        I honestly thought by the time I moved and my husband was still seeing the ow, that he was never going to stop seeing her, that if he couldn’t make a decision, then it was up to me to, and I was prepared to leave, after all we weren’t seeing each other, it was only on a weekend, but I wouldn’t see him until the Saturday night, so you may as well say one full day a week if that.
        She started pressuring him more after our move, and i think that is what started to wake him up, along with the fact his family weren’t around and she was trying to have him treat her children like they were his.

    • Done With Denial


      YES…I wish none of this were true, but it IS and I have been living a nightmare. My husband went to his therapist this afternoon and promptly came home to tell me that I “slimed” (his therapist’s term for sabotage) all over my husband’s attempts at healing because I contacted the OW. His therapist prompts him to “move forward in his healing and recovery” and basically not allow me to railroad him with any more “digging up of the past”. Wait…WHAT? I explained to my CH that I need full disclosure to move forward instead of this insane trickle truth, omissions, and bold faced LIES and denials. I explained again that I contacted her FOR ME once I saw she was still texting and I wanted to stand in my power and do something about it since HE wasn’t. His therapist said that I am the one keeping her here! He told my CH that “Your wife invited your AP back into your life”. I am BEYOND furious that he would tell cheater that. CH decided to text his drug-addicted escort (I am being nice here) after he saw what she had written to me. HE invited her back by texting her! This was at this point, between OW and me. Like several of you BS on this thread, my H is addicted and emotionally attached to this woman and admitted this a few days before I contacted her (which was a little over a week ago). How on earth am I supposed to believe he suddenly hates her? I told him it’s just a lover’s quarrel and before you know it the withdrawal symptoms will kick in on both sides and they will need contact again. She is definitely a borderline personality disordered person. And he is narcissistic, so they are a perfect match in their drama together. I kept her texts and read them daily. I know this seems unhealthy, but it is the only ting I have right now to catapult me out of my denial and to move on with my life since he is THE master manipulator and sucks me back in EVERY TIME. This has been going on for a year. And he actually wants me to believe that he wants her gone for good because she’s evil (he’s hurt because she said she erased his number and has no feelings for her since she loves her BF (oh yeah, she’s had a live-in, addict BF this entire time of the affair). You can’t make this stuff up!

      • Strengthrequired

        Done with denial, I can’t believe your husbands therapist. I’m sorry that you have to deal with all this. My husband wouldn’t go to a therapist, in a way after reading what your husbands therapist said to him, I’m glad he didn’t.
        Honestly I don’t believe either that after a short time period of not being in contact with the ow, that they just decide to hate the ow. Tbh, I don’t even think my husband hates his ow now and he hasn’t spoken to her for a few years, even though he thinks, or tells me that he thinks she is crazy.
        After almost breaking up your marriage and having your wife and family suffer for a long time for this ow, I can’t imagine it being so easy to lose all those loving feelings for her, yet then again, in must a matter of a week of starting his affair with the ow, my husband had so much hate in his heart for me, so maybe it is possible.

        • CBb

          It might be the right time to get your Plan B going. This sounds like a merry go round but no one is getting off the carousel.

          I don’t know how long you can continue this game called life, but these are the types of situations thatvcause depression, anxiety, stress & physical ailments.

          Get your power back from him. He is not in charge, you are. Refuse to play his game. Refuse to take part in his drama. He is acting like a kid. Treat him like one. Pack his bags for him if you must.

          But do not getvstuck on his highway of hell. Not worth it in the end, even if you get through this and reconcile. Thatvis way too much damage done.

    • Done With Denial


      I understand your pain completely. It IS a dilemma to think we have to rely on the so-called enemy to get disclosure for CLOSURE. My intention from the beginning was to heal my marriage. Contacting her seemed like the logical choice because she was still contacting him. I promised myself over the summer when I left my husband to live in FL for 6 weeks (I could no longer witness his heartbreak and grieving over this woman) that if she contacted him again after he group texted both her and me, then I would contact her myself. His last KNOWN correspondence to her was in July (he hid other correspondence to her, I have come to find out) to say “Please do not contact me anymore. I love my wife and don’t want to lose my marriage over this. Please respect me enough to comply”. She never responded to that text so I naively assumed that was it. I was kind and compassionate with her in my contact. I appealed to our “sisterhood”, one woman to another. It’s who I am, but I also know that she would not want to cooperate with someone who is ranting and full of rage. It worked because she responded within 24 hours AND said that she wanted to help me because she thought I was a sweet woman and that I didn’t deserve what my husband was doing. Could she be embellishing or flat out lying about some things? Absolutely, and her agenda might be revenge against my H since she didn’t think I was in the picture AND she is an addict with addict mentality. But she confirmed many things that I had already discovered myself or had heavy psychic hits on. In a bizarre way she became my ally and not my enemy. Anyway, there are still many holes because we talked on the phone as well, but her phone died and she never contacted me again. I wonder if I will ever hear from her again, but I don’t rely on that since I won’t contact her again myself. Again, one never knows who they are going to “meet” on the other end of a telephone call, but I did it for ME and took the risk. Every BS has to decided that for themselves, but ALWAYS check intention first…make sure it’s from a pure place or it will blow up in proverbial face.

    • TheFirstWife

      DWD. I have lived the hell & nightmare you are now living. My H longed for his AP for months while they were “over”. So for 6 weeks I was compared to her, judged and treated poorly by my H.

      What would I do differently? Nothing b/c I told my H a number of times to leave yet he did not. I was seeing my fabulous therapist who helped a lot. I even discussed divorce mediators at times with my H. None of that changed his behavior.

      It is like trying to reason with a drunk or crazy person. FUTILE!

      It wasn’t until I had one foot out the door did things change. By then HE realized he was done with the affair and OW. BUT those resluzations came a bit too late for me. I was done with living like this.

      BTW your H’s therapist is only getting the dumbed down “poor me” version of the story. Manipulators are able to lie to everyone. What kind of therapist can’t see through your H’s charade. So I suggest ignoring that situation. Do you think your H would come home and admit the therapist said the CH was wrong? Um not bloody likely.

      Suggestion. Stop trying to “fix” this. This was my biggest misconception for me. I thought I could make changes and turn this around.

      Put the effort into healing yourself. You see a therapist to learn to deal with your H. You start a life outside your marriage. Volunteer, exercise, book club, church – whatever it is. But focus your energy on you.

      If and when your husband comes to his senses and “snaps out if it” (as Cher says in Moonstruck), then you have something to work with.

      Until then, you are wasting your energy. This is like dealing with an addiction. You can put someone in rehab but until they are ready to fully commit, you cannot effect any change.

      I think sometimes when they see the Wife is no longer playing, it takes the wind out of their sails.

      Obviously this is my own experience. But to my credit I did not get sucked into the drama my H created b/c I didn’t want him to see me crack. However I was truly a mess but was forced to keep it together for the sake of my kids.

      It is hard to know what to do when you have months where your H is telling you he doesn’t want to be married. But I think they end up where they don’t know what they want BUT are willing to ruin lives to figure it out.

    • Done With Denial

      Thank you to all of you wonderful and supportive ladies who are here gathered in strength and commonality. I have been going to my own therapist since May and she is fantastic, talk therapy as well as energy work to remove the ORIGINAL trauma from childhood stuck in my brain, hence the DENIAL on my part. My rational brain could not handle the overload so I could not see through the lies and manipulation. I came very close to purchasing a GPS myself earlier in the year and thought about it again before I left for my sabbatical in July. But I decided I didn’t want to put the energy into monitoring him to that extent. I guess it’s because I figured a cheater’s going to cheat no matter how much we think we can control it. And in the case of my H, no matter how much hard evidence I provide, he ALWAYS has an amazing cache of lies to cover up his actions. The mental acrobatics my CH has performed in order to continue with his secret is mindboggling. He swears he is doing the work now with his therapist, that he loves me and is back in his rational mind, and wants to reconcile. I am the one putting the brakes on now because I’m so numb and broken down from this. How can I ever trust him again?

      And what is wrong with me that all of this knowledge I now have isn’t enough? Several people in my life have asked me point blank, “What’s it going to take?” I wanted to know if the affair was physical. Maybe I thought that would be what I needed to leave for good. The OW told me it was…CH will deny for the rest of his natural life. Even his crappy therapist doesn’t understand WHY I need to know that info because I went to one session with my H back in June. So even if H wanted to disclose, I doubt he will because therapist is telling him it will just cause me undue pain to give me any details. I explained that it’s the NOT knowing that causes pain because I am left guessing and making crap up in my head. Does anyone else need to know this stuff? Or are they right in that it will just cause more heartache?

      I have a Plan B. My amazing GF and her H have invited me to move to NC for awhile. Big house, open hearts, and tons of opportunity. My children are grown (this is my 2nd marriage–no children involved thankfully), so I don’t have ties to NY. I am now in the deciding phase of this drama. And now I have pressure from family and friends to get out. ?

    • TryingHard

      Done with denial
      Ok just throwing my two cents in. The affair was probably physical. I am very doubtful of all the EA claims. Men are not in it for the emotions. Most men hate that part of relationships. Too messy and they are such clods with emotions. Never really know what the emotion is. Women are different. We live for analyzing our emotions.

      So quit guessing. Assume he’s lying again and in fact the therapist has convinced him not to own up to it. He’s been validated in his cover up by this authority figure. That’s a huge factor. And I will say very wrong on the therapists part but he is a man after all. He’s carrying on the myth of deny deny deny. That’s wrong and sad. Especially in light of you begging for the truth

      Ask your h what was in it for him this supposed EA. What was he getting from it. You know most men do it for one reason. Sex. Now only you know your husband but what kind of man is he? Do YOU really believe he wasn’t interested sexually? I’m going to guess he wasn’t. There’s plenty of testimony here where women were led to believe it was only an EA so no sex which means in their sick mind it wasn’t really cheating only to find out many months or years later it was indeed sexual. Don’t be fooled. You already have one testimony from the OW saying it was sexual. What did she have to gain by saying that? Nothing. She actually had more to lose by confirming it if she thought she could get your husband back. I think you know in your heart the truth but you so want to believe him. I get that.

      Look my h was physically and emotionally tied to the OW and we are still together. Had it been only emotional and not physical maybe he would still be wondering what he missed out on. Who knows. Doesn’t make a difference. It’s really all up to what you can live with. Given he’s still probably lying and denying you are in a tough spot. Maybe a confrontation with her and him together in the same room will bring out the truth for you. Offer that up and see how he reacts. Watch that Ted talk to none up on lie spotting first. Desperate times call for desperate measures my friend

    • TheFirstWife

      Trying Hard and DWD.

      TH excellent points. Both my H & OW said there was no sex. Not sure if I believe it but to me it really doesn’t matter. He cheated. He was leaving me for her. The other stuff is just details.

      DWD. If you have options to leave perhaps you should consider it. But don’t tell your H you are leaving him. Just say you are going on a vacation. Leave it open ended. Don’t day when you are coming back. Leave him wondering IF you are.

      I think at this point you don’t owe him anything. He has manipulated his therapist and found one who buys into his pile of crap. How sad. My therapist told me early on that he thought my H slept with the OW but at the end of the day it is a detail. For some reason I was not hung up on that aspect. His OW told me first time we ever spoke that there was no sex. So it could be true.

      What matters now is the continued has lighting and lying. I would sit down with the CH and in a calm rational way say that you understand his affair and how important it is To him. However you can not have us both so it is time for me to take a break and vacation and figure out what I want.

      Then leave. Don’t give him time to try to talk you out of it. Swift snd quick. No drama. Just an adult conversation. Stay away days, weeks or months. Whatever you need.

      Don’t over analyze him or you. Start to detox from the daily drama. Life will calm down and you will start to be able to make decisions with clarity and confidence.

      Know your absence will send him running to OW. However if he truly wants your marriage he will start to show restraint and commitment and integrity. Make you his priority. Pour his energy into your marriage.

      If not then you know what you are dealing with in terms of his words vs his actions.

      I wish you the best since this is soooo hard and draining. But you can and will survive this once you put yourself first. God bless!

    • TryingHard

      I’ve actually read her book Liespotting. It’s very good. One of my cache of many books I’ve read since DDay. But I think her Ted Talk is really good and make her points better than reading the book.

      The main thing I learned from both her book and her Ted talk is that it is WE who are complicit in the lies. We soooo want to believe the cheater it makes it easier for them to lie.

      I will never forget a statement my husband made one time after a MC session. He actually said “it would be so easy for me to lie to you right now, to fool you again, because you WANT to believe me.” That was without any prompting from me or the counselor. I think that statement was probably the most honest thing he has ever said to me!!! Weird, but honest.

      I do not believe people lie to protect you or another party. They lie to make themselves look good and protect THEMSELVES. Period. I do not buy that liars have any altruistic motive to spare someone’s feelings. I’m not talking about the “does this dress make my butt look big lie” I’m talking about the big lies, the big made up narratives that cheaters and liars tell both the wife and the AP. They lie to construct a different history, a different narrative of their life to justify their actions. And I truly believe that’s why some cheaters claim the EA story instead of the full truth of a PA. They truly believe it’s NOT an affair unless there’s a physicality to the affair.

      The whole liar scenario is apart from the infidelity although it plays a huge part in cheating. Lying is part of someone’s personality and much more difficult to change. Many people can stop an affair but lying becomes a way of life for many. It’s sad and sick. And it’s sadder and sicker when we take it upon ourselves to try to spot it. Particularly in our close and personal relationships. There is no room for it. I hate it.

      • Doug

        Hey TH, Thanks for your insight and I’m with you as to why people lie – self preservation, or self-gain. That’s it. I’ve not read her book but have watched the TED talk (Here’s a link if anyone else is interested: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/how-to-spot-a-liar/ )

    • Falling Ash

      Going off post slightly…last night OH and I were watching a quiz where you have to get the most obscure correct answer. I was racking my brains to think of Kate Winslett films post 2000, when my OH turns to me and says “I have noticed that you are very lacking in temporal awareness.” I looked at him dumbfounded. This from the man who claims he “can’t remember” when he first started having feelings for the OW, when he started emailing her in secret, when he first met with her behind my back, where they met, how often they texted etc. Whereas I remember the date we met, when we first admitted feelings for each other, when we first kissed, first time we had sex, first “I love you”. And I am the one without temporal awareness!!!!

      • Strengthrequired

        Maybe your response should have been ” I must have caught it from you”

        • Falling Ash

          Great response, Strength. I wish I had thought of it at the time.

          • Strengthrequired

            Falling ash, I’m always telling my husband that I have learnt it from the best, him… Lol

    • antiskank

      As usual, I am so sad to see all that everyone must deal with yet glad that I am not the only one and that others know how devastating and tiring all of this is! Some of you have dealt with what would seem to be unbearable and yet are still standing and trying to carry on. What a great bunch of people! I look forward to checking out the comments as often as I can and always appreciate the advice form the regulars as well as the newbies.

      To me, the lies are among the top 3 worst possible things that I have had to deal with. After the lies that there was nothing going on, that they were just friends, that he had ended it , that he had no feelings for her, that he loved and wanted only me……… I was stupid enough to believe him. He knew that there was nothing really between them but a fantasy on his part. She was just playing with him and trying to wreck a marriage to get another notch on her skanky bedpost. He insisted over and over that she was trash (one of his few truths) and that he loved me with all his heart. He was adamant that he was over her. I insisted that I wanted only the truth and asked him not to tell me he loved me unless he truly meant it.

      As time went on and I was sure that they’d had no contact, I assumed that he had come to his senses. It was a huge shock to the system to hear two and a half years after the first D-Day that he still longed for her, spent all his time fantasizing about her, and felt no love for me. He claimed that he had only said all “that stuff” because he knew it was what I wanted to hear! What the hell!!@!!!

      Between those lies and many others that he tossed out like candy, he had said many things to me that were meant to hurt and destroy me. It worked. Being told by the person you most love in the world that you are worthless, old, ugly, not worth even liking – never mind loving – Well that is definitely a tough pill to swallow. I know it isn’t true but still hurts coming from him.

      Since then, I truly don;t know why I have given him any more chances but I have. He begged me to when I asked him to leave. We have been trying to rebuild but I can’t seem to put as much effort or enthusiasm into it as I did before finding our about the ongoing lies.How can I believe that he isn’t lying now? Even if he is telling the truth, I have that nagging doubt in the back of my mind – more about how he sees me or feels about me than any question of him being unfaithful again. I guess I want a grand gesture or a huge effort on his part to show he really knows what he was losing. I want explanations that tell me how he can go from despising everything about me to loving me and being happy with me. I want to feel loved, cherished, wanted. I want to feel I can be me in every way. I want him to have my back, to be a team… Is that too much to ask?

      • CBb

        Anti I have those same issues. You berated me and told me everythingbthat you kept bottled up for 30+ years and when it came spewing out itvwas filled with hate.

        Me on the other hand voiced my few issues or complaints directly to you. Nothing ever ever went unresolved except my H’s inability to tell me when he was coming home or pick up a phone and tell me his whereabouts. I would knowbif he had work related social events after work. He would tell me date& time itvstarted. He would say be home at 11pm and show up at 3am with a Lame sorry, forgot the time. After years of doing everything to change the behavior I gave up. Done fighting & arguing.

        I trusted him and was accepting.

        And then the affair. And I am to blame. My fault. Harsh venomous words.

        I think at that point he was hoping I would end it. I almost did early on but figured I wwas not going to let him get off easy. You want out, you end it. You say it.

        Anti – hard to have that loving & forgiving feeling some days. Those words stick with you.

        But I think and believe that I have forgiven. But I have to stop that little voice from re-playing those words. And I have to stop thinking he will cheat again or will come home and end it. I was so blindsided I now over analyze everything.

        I was never jealous or possessive or doubtful. Now I am every one of those things.

    • Ann

      First of all I must say I love the name you came up with for this blog.
      Yes the lies really do make me want to just get up and leave but I have responsibilities to my father who is 88 and I take care of him as we share a home together. He upstairs and my CH and I downstairs.
      So my CH would be the one to have to leave and I won’t tell him to do that until my father passes away, because when my CH left me for the first affair it really affected my father, so I will try not to put him through it again unless he loses his memory then I can send my CH away.
      Not that I haven’t tried in this marriage but I am very tired of being the only one working on it.
      My CH is always lying. Like when I ask when the last time he and the OW have been texting, he will say “oh it’s been awhile. Meanwhile it had just been hours before.
      I swear he does not know how to be truthful because he also lies to his friends.
      The one thing he has not done is call me any names to my face, but he can’t be transparent at all.
      So he continues this second affair after the first OW ended it, and I took him back because he said it was over. But never say you were stupid to believe him, after all you married this man because you truly believed he loved you. That’s why you took him back. I also believed my CH when he said things were over with her, and I know this gong show I live has nothing to do with me.
      So I also took him back so I could look at myself and say that I tried and not feel bad if the time comes to throw him out with the wash.
      I also want to feel loved and wanted again because I used to be everything to him, he used to put me first. So for now it’s one day at a time.Take care

    • TryingHard

      Hell!!!! No!!!! It’s not too much to ask for and don’t settle for any less. Come up with some ideas of your own. Plan a trip. I don’t care where but make it grand. Plan a renovation. Anything. Just not the same old same old. Rebuild new. Screw the past. The old ways are over. Maybe even a weekly date night, dance lessons, concerts something to shake it up.

      How did you get him to admit 2.5 years later he still fantasizes about the skank? Was it and EA or a PA? How can he be so shallow to still live in his fantasy world? Odd to say the least. I get you giving him another go but there will come a point where you will give up. I hope you are taking care of YOU. let him figure his own shit out

      • antiskank

        Thank you all for your advice and understanding! It is so much more meaningful coming from someone who has been there. It really helps me to sort out my thoughts and feelings when I see your suggestions.

        You bring up some great points. I think I have forgiven the emotional affair but cannot get past the lies and abuse. He is not really doing anything wrong now but I’m just not feeling right somehow. Maybe it’s because I am so stressed over the nasty breakup of my son’s marriage. His wife is a cruel, vindictive piece of work and I worry and feel sad for my son and grandkids. They are in for a truckload of hurt and I just don’t know if he can take it. It adds so much pain and stress to an already bad situation.

        I guess until recently I felt that I was putting everything back into the marriage and relationship that I was able to do. Now I just have nothing left to give. I need to get something back. I have learned so much about who we really are as people. It is odd, I almost feel that I was in a fog as well before finding out about his affair. I felt that he had honesty, integrity, ethics, morals and compassion. Those things are so important to me. I was wrong in so many ways. Was I in denial?

        CBb – Isn’t it amazing how much we are changed by all this. I was also very confident, never jealous, fully trusting. Now – not so much. It is just so hard to get past the nasty things said to me especially about my body which was as perfect as I could ever wish for until the last few years. Come on, I’m 58 years old and pretty good considering, what do you expect?

        Ann – You’re right. We do take them back because we love them and can’t accept that they don’t love us. We need to feel they do. I’m sorry that this also affects your father. That compounds the situation. I sort of feel the same way about my son. He’s rather fragile right now, has been staying with us for the past six months and seems to be very concerned about us staying together.

        TH – you suggest a trip – done that, a renovation – done that, concerts & plays – done that many times. During the first couple of years after D-Day, I planned all kinds of activities to create new memories and reconnect. I thought we were but something was missing. We had gone to counselling – together and separately. He had been given little tasks by them to do but never followed through. We had gone to a couples boot camp to re-establish communication but nothing changed. I had asked him to do a couple of tasks – read a specific book, follow this blog, make a couple of lists, talk to me about his feelings, discuss our relationship, discuss the affair. Although he agreed to do them and made promises that he would talk to me in a meaningful way every day, it never happened.

        I finally confronted him about why he seemed to be doing nothing to help me heal, nothing to repair our relationship. At first I got the lame ” I didn’t think I had to”. When I pushed I had to clarify each of his statements with him. Then I heard that he didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to. I wasn’t important enough to him, he didn’t feel the same feelings for me that he felt for her. He was still fantasizing about sex with her. He wasn’t ready to let go of his fantasy and his feelings for me hadn’t returned. He didn’t feel there was any passion, spark or fire.

        Once again I asked him to leave and get out of my life. I gave him a short time to figure out how to do that. He came back with a request for yet another chance. He was wrong and really does love me, can’t see his life without me, etc….. I truly would like things to work out for us if possible so ever the gullible sucker, I agreed. Now I really need him to be there to help us get through my son’s mess as he really needs our help and support.

        Now he fully admits that the affair was completely his fault, that I had done nothing wrong. He says he knows he was an ass@#*#. I think that our son’s problems have brought home some stark realities to him. I was the only person to always stand by him and have his back no matter what. I did everything for him. Some days I think all I want is to be together, other days I am so sad and angry at what he did that I just want to walk away. It is very difficult when you have been with someone for so long. I have been with him since I was 16 and we have been married 41 years now. I realize I’m not quite ready to give up yet but am soooo tired of feeling on edge and unsure. Arrrrgh!! Like you say – one day at a time!

    • Strengthrequired

      I just find it so amazing that all of our poor spouses suffer from short and long term memory loss for the time period of their affair. How so convenient and lucky for them. Can I hold my hand up for affair memory loss. How lovely it would be to forget that time period. Somehow I am envious of our spouses for their selective memory loss.

    • Falling Ash

      Yep. Most of the details of my OH’s affair are engraved into my brain. It would feel like bliss to be able to forget even some of that crap!

    • Done With Denial

      I think it may be the LYING at this point, and NOT even the affair itself, that has me so enraged and heartbroken. Like so many of you, I gave my H ample opportunity to come clean with lies I could confirm (like calling a Motel 6 at 4:30 am, calls to rehabs that same day, because remember, OW is a smack addict, and later that evening, a call to a room service provider called Order Inn who services, guess what?? YES…Motel 6 among other places). He deny, deny, denied and made up an excuse for EACH call and they were almost believable. I put every last discretion I’ve ever had in my entire life on the table for him, exposing my vulnerability, in order to show I was all in and we could start fresh. He CHOSE to continue lying and covering up, stating he RESPONDED to her contact and cries for help because he “felt obligated for leading her on”. PLEASE. It’s s CHOICE. Choosing to have an affair and then choosing to lie about it, even years later like some of you have dealt with, is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE. They do it because they WANT to and they CAN because they know us so well. They know what buttons to push and how much we love them. Like my therapist said this week when I told her how hard it is to detach: YOU DIDN’T choose this…HE did and now you are left with the broken pieces.” The healing burden is on US. WE have to do the work ourselves just as Trying Hard and First Wife and so many others have said. I realize that he chose, but I can choose for ME. I can’t trust a word that comes out of his mouth because the lies started a year ago and continue to this day. It’s always an individual choice whether to leave or stay, but there has also been berating of my family and kids, blame for our biz failing and subsequent bankruptcy, compulsive need for attention from other women, and now he’s getting physical with me. I have to draw the line somewhere. My H has a big perception problem. I stayed for a year supporting him in his health and recovery, but he chose to give in to his lack of impulse control due to his arrested development. I have to make a decision.

      • Strengthrequired

        Dwd, if you feel unsafe around your h, can you stay with someone. I just worry about you and him getting physical with his behaviour towards you. I hope I was misinterperutting what you wrote.

    • TheFirstWife

      DWD. It is heartbreaking to have to face the fact that you know your H is lying.

      But I think it is like all the other addictions – drugs, alcohol, sex, food, shopping. As a rational personal you ask yourself – what are they getting out of this?

      Makes no sense to a sane rational person. But in some respects that is not what you are dealing with.

      So maddening and frustrating. Like a toddler at times.

      It appears he may be afraid to leave you. Give up a nice life for ??? The unknown. The fear of what could happen. Or what his life will be like without you. HARD!!

      It comes down to what are YOU willing to tolerate? 6 months was my breaking point.

      • Theresa

        It’s a lot more than lying.
        How about no more dishonesty.
        Limiting the offensive behavior to something specific plays into the cheaters hand. The master manipulators will use the word game to protest their innocence, He may not be lying, but he failed to include some of the more interesting details. He has taken away your choice to form a truthful picture and thereby limits your ability to form a realistic responce.

        Lying , misinform, omit, exclude, all of them mean essentially the same thing

        And the advantage goes to… Not you.

    • TryingHard

      What SR said. Cheating is one thing. Physical abuse and cheating?? Two words–Get Out. No Get Out Now. Take your children and go. Find someplace safe. This guy isn’t and who knows what’s next.

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, exactly….

    • Done With Denial

      My children are grown…no worries there. I have many offer of places to stay, hence I am considering NC since it’s far away. You did not misinterpret what I wrote, SR. He choked me back in January a week after D-D #1 when I found he was hiding her number under his brother’s name. I called him out on it at 4:30 in the morning and he didn’t take kindly to that. In his unconscious rage, he came after me. I was one of those women who swore if a man ever laid his hands on me I would leave forever. Then it happened to me. I was in such a state of shock, confusion, despair and my OWN unconsciousness due to having left (by myself to see family) for a planned vacation the day after I found out. I was out of town for 8 days immediately after D-Day and had not processed it. So when he did that a week later, I felt so mentally and emotionally beaten down that I became paralyzed to do ANYTHING. Once I talked to the OW 2 weeks ago, that rage came back and he grabbed me and blocked my path so I could not leave the room I was in. He’s also raised his fist to me in threat. This is not the man I thought I married 5 years ago and have been with for 14 years total. So I told him that if he EVER touches me again, I will call the police AND his family (who already know about the OW). His reputation is the most important thing to him…believe me (he’s a well-known local musician). My friend is married to a cop. She told me how to start a paper trail.

      • Strengthrequired

        Dwd, I’m so glad you have people watching out for you. It’s so I hard to believe how an affair can bring out the worst in people, but it truly does. It makes you wonder why people hate affairs knowing that it causes so much pain. Affairs truly change people.

        • Strengthrequired

          Dad, just wanted to just say, please take care…

          • Strengthrequired

            Dwd, not dad

    • Sar

      I’m now coming up to six months from d-day and during that time I’ve continuously been lied to, yet finding myself wanting to believe him. Over this time he’s been leaving on three occasions, yet whenever it has come to the crunch he has changed his mind or convinced me he’s wanting to give it another go and is committed, that is until the last couple of weeks when he has physically left to be with her twice, and come back twice with me actually allowing him back. Until a week ago the only people aware of his betrayal have been my friends, however when he left this time the kids were made aware we were having some time apart and I told our parents exactly what he had been doing. I feel like I’ve almost been protecting him by not telling the family, and now it’s all out in the open. So again I’ve let him back and am hopeful that him being aware of the devastation he is not only causing me but the rest of the family too is enough for him to now be genuine and to actually stop the lies. He has told me (again) that it’s over between him and the ow, and that she will be handing her notice in at work. I’m finding it so hard to understand how the man I’ve known for over 30 years and been in a relationship with for 13 is able to lie and treat me this way, or for me to even understand where that man I thought I knew has gone. I know that if any of my friends were going through what I’m going through I’d now tell them enough is enough, yet don’t seem able to do this for myself. I can’t quite decide if I’m a determined person not prepared to give up on my love for him and something that I believe in, or a complete idiot. I’ve read so many of the articles from this website, and in many ways feel that his behaviour and actions are pretty much text book with very little deviation, but when do I say enough?

      • TheFirstWife

        Sar. We have all been there. We understand it all.

        You are doing the right thing for now. Trying to protect your family and children is the right step (for now). Forget about all the other crap. Family is first.

        You are in the reality of the affair fog (as it is known). Your H cannot make a rational decision. He doesn’t know what he wants. He is acting crazy. Unlike himself. Mine did too. Same situation. Was about to leave me. Changed his mind. Tried to leave again but could not bring himself to do it.

        It is 2.5 years for us and we are still together and happy.

        It can work. It can be fixed. It can resolve itself. IF (and this is where push comes to shove):

        You set boundaries for your H. He abides by them. When I had enough of being a yo-yo for my H (as you are) I told him to leave. I was done. Could not tolerate any more.

        Once I had my power back there was a HUGE shift in our relationship. He had cut all ties and contact with OW. When she tried to contact him a third time he did not respond. He saw her for what she was.

        He starts to tell the truth about everything.

        I would suggest couples counseling but most men refuse to go. If so you go for yourself on getting past this and dealing with the task of putting the relationship back together. A majority of women here will attest that the wife or betrayed spouse does more of the work here. The guy very often does not know what to do.

        Do not rely on him telling you 100% of the truth. He will hide things that make him look bad. Trust me they all do it. My H told me he did not live the OW. I saw in writing where he told her he did. I saw in writing how he was planning to leave me. I saw the emails that he wrote to her planning their future together. And he lied and denied it even with black and white proof. If you lower your expectations a bit here you will not be devastated like I was. I expected 100% truth and honesty and when I did not get it, I was shattered.

        Learn to accept your H for the liar and cheater he is. Not to say it will continue but you will see your H in a new light forever. My issue is I married my H b/c he was so honest and a stand up guy. Such admirable qualities.

        Please hang in there. This is the worst time of your life going through this ordeal. But you will survive and it will take time. You did the right thing by finally telling family members. My H actually called each and every one of my family members and apologized.

        • Sar

          Thank you for your response. It’s now been seven weeks since I told him to leave, and that I was exhausted with the lies and deceit and couldn’t carry on anymore and needed to start living my life again. Faced with this he made the decision he wanted to stay and try to make things right between us, though I strongly suspect that having left me twice to be with the ow, only to return of his own accord, that she has told him enough and returned to her husband. They still work together, and I don’t have any trust in him at this point in time, but things have started to feel as if they are slowly improving, and he is definitely more present within our family. In fact it’s noticeable how much he had withdrawn from our family unit over the last couple of years by the change in him now. I have no doubt he is still in the ‘affair fog’ but am hopeful this has lessened a little, or am I clinging to that because I want things to be right again? We are not really talking about what’s happened, I’m trying not to bring anything up as I feel I have more control over my emotions than I have for months and don’t want to let him regain any of this back, but I feel this is contributing to being in a different sort of limbo than we were in previously. I still don’t know if I’m doing the right thing.

          • TheFirstWife

            You will never know what is right or wrong. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.

            The turn around for me was regaining control of myself. Emotions, finances, power, etc. I was now in charge and calling the shots. My very wise friend told me to have my H sign a post-nup. Any $ in my name he has no access to if we divorce. That was a condition of me not leaving him or throwing him out. This was 1 month after DDay2

            So you write that he went back & forth (or you suspect he did) even though he said he wanted to stay married. That can be normal but you must stop that from continuing. That can just prolong his fog. And affect you.

            You can and should talk about ANYTHING you want to. He should answer openly and honestly. Be prepared for his continued lies. It happens to many. My H told me he did not love her and he was not planning on leaving me. Well hell he wasn’t I saw it in writing and multiple emails. The continued lying to save his butt is what almost ruined our marriage.

            Take it slow. Make calm and rational decisions. My therapist told me if you end up divorced you want to leave the marriage with no regrets. No unfinished business. You tried your best and unfortunately you could not make it work. This way you lessen the guilt and anger and sadness that goes along with divorce.

            Take each day slowly. Try to put you first. Not him. Feel good about yourself and your choices and the rest will fall into place. At the first sign of any suspicious behavior you should call him on it. Keep it rational but don’t let him get away with anything. Once the backsliding starts to old behaviors it can be hard to get them under control.

      • tryingtorecover

        SAR – I’m feel differently than TFW. I won’t accept more lies. My husband of 19 years continued to lie..about the affair… other little things that had minimal impact on the marriage. My counselor told me to read the book “Uncoupling” and it changed my life!!!

        “Uncoupling” states that the “initiator” is the person that pushes the partner away throughout the marriage in subtle ways though giving the appearance that at times they still want to be in the marriage – heed the warning: THEY DO NOT!

        After reading half of “Uncoupling,” I realized that this was my marriage – and my husband wasn’t fully committed to me or the marriage for years. Once this starts it’s so hard to get it back- impossible? Not impossible, but it takes, honesty, recognition on their part, hard work and a strong commitment to work on the marriage 100 percent.

        I have filed for divorce – I’m sad that my marriage is ending, but I realized the process began years ago,…even before the affair. It began with him sleeping on the couch when he was upset with me, stonewalling me, the criticisms, not inviting me to events, being a workaholic to avoid me….I just began a process that was legal. He began the emotional divorce process.

        I come to realize this is so painful though it will dissipate…if I stay in this marriage I will suffer indefinitely. I have one life toile and I cannot devote my life to forever sadness, dishonesty, looking over my shoulder…

        I recommended everyone read this book!!!!

    • theresa

      Sat, if you have not already done so check out the site Marriage Builders. Their philosophy is to expose the affair. I think you may find some support and very helpful advice for your journey through the minefield you find yourself in.
      And then come right back here. EAJ IS STILL THE ROCK.

    • Angela

      Can’t get my WS to understand that even his “little white lies” set any healing all the way back to zero because being a liar just shows mw I am still dealing with the same person he says he he was 5 years ago when it all started and I now believe he lied to and betrayed me in other ways from the beginning of our relationship, so I’m grieving the years before the event with the OW as well as the.”mattiage I thought I had” before that.

    • Camper

      My H still doesn’t “get it.” He sent a proper no contact letter to the OW months ago. It included a warning that if she contacted him, he would immediately inform me. A few weeks later I asked him if there had been any contact and he swore there had not been any, but added “you’ll never believe me.” He wanted to sweep the whole thing under the rug and for me to “just get over it.”

      Fast forward a few more months, and I found evidence of contact. It took weeks for me to get up enough nerve to ask him about it. He said that it had been only her emailing him, and he even gave me the login and password to the account he was using so I could verify it. Still, it was not so much her contact that hurt me, it was the fact that he hid it from me in contrast to his earlier pledge to be transparent.

      He sent another NC letter to her, so she started sending him emails to yet ANOTHER email account. He has refused to provide me with access because I would “get upset.” Again, he DOES NOT GET that I am more upset about lack of transparency than I am about the emails. My suggestion to simply terminate the account is met with resistance because he doesn’t want to rock the boat with the OW due to her mental issues and potential volatility.

      I don’t know fore sure whether he is looking at these emails or just letting them land quietly in an account that he rarely uses. But I do know this is NOT how trust is rebuilt.

    • Seenthelight

      In my case, my cheating H had a problem with telling the truth right from childhood and making everyone think he was anything but a liar. Some people evidently can’t tell the truth yet feel no guilt, never mind any deep feelings of guilt. He felt that if he wasn’t caught in a lie, it wasn’t a lie. “It’s only a lie if it’s found out to be a lie.” This was evidently the way he was raised along with, “If you don’t talk about a problem it isn’t a problem.” He was a master at avoidance and I was raised to confront problems no matter the consequences. When he finally admitted he had been an adulterer for at least 24 years I knew what the right thing to do was, yet I figured after being married for over 34 years I’d see if we could recover from this. He said all the right things that many of the recovery groups said needed to be said, but his actions never changed. He went to therapy 4 times with me, but was not coming clean or trying to do what the therapist said we needed to do. He went 2 times on his own and decided it was a waste of money. So after a almost a year and a half I filed for divorce. He couldn’t understand it, I did get more information out of him, which may or may not have been true. He figured it was time to totally come clean, as he put it. He wanted me to stop the proceedings and as soon as I discussed that with him he was back to his old self. I didn’t stop the divorce and as scary as it was to leave him at 61 I can say it was the smartest decision I had made for myself in years. My life is no longer entangled in a bunch of lies I feel like I have been set free. I accept that he had no idea how to actually care about another person or be honest.

    • Connie

      How do you begin to move on again after you’re thrown back down into that abyss of betrayl trmoil after another “found out lie”. My husband claims he thought I already knew about his continuing the affair for another 6 months after he promised me he’d stopped. Now it feels like our marriage has been a lie through this whole process of recovery. It feels like months and months of hard work just went back down the drain. We were on vacation when I found out ( the first we had taken in almost 25 yrs). I don’t know if I have the emotional strength to start the process over or even continue the process. Are there any resources out there to help. He still is refusing to go to counseling with me or even by himself.

    • Seenthelight

      I found out my X had been a world class liar his whole life. Like Doug he lied about many things while he was growing up. I believe that lifelong habit is how he lied so well once he had started cheating and the following 24 years of lying. Though we agreed before marriage that “Honesty is the best policy” he was still a world class liar. I realized this was something he liked (maybe even loved) to do. I had no illusions he could or would quit his lying. We went to counseling to try. After a year and a half of me trying to recover, he was still lying. In our state both parties don’t have to sign the papers for a divorce and infidelity is one of the reasons that just calls for paperwork to go through the system without a hearing. So I filed for divorce and 2 months later it was final (October 2015). Smartest thing I have ever done. Now I don’t have that concern in my life. He also broke my habit of believing that just because you have an. agreement (verbal or on paper) with someone doesn’t mean the other party will honor it. For me the lies that are most destructive have stopped.
      In a way, lying has affected my life positively, once I was aware of the depth of the lies and accepted the character or lack there of in my now X. I am more aware that most people have no clue how to be honest at all, never mind 100%.

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