By Sarah P.
A couple of weeks ago, we had a seven-hour flight ahead of us. As always, I get the very back row. I do not care if the seats do not recline or if it is by the restroom. I choose the back row.
This time I told my husband I was taking the seat across the isle because I wanted to catch up on work and intended to spend the seven hours ahead of me working on some of the new programs we will be releasing soon.
The kids had their iPad’s and headphones and he agreed to sit with them just across the isle.
I thought I had lucked out because no one bought the two seats next to me. Ahhh… paradise. Airline seats are getting smaller and the legroom is also getting smaller.
No such luck.
A very pushy woman had bought the window seat and wanted in. As soon as she got in, she spread her stuff out on the seat between us without asking if I wanted to put some of my stuff there too.
I politely introduced myself and she nodded, but did not say her name .
So, I took out my laptop and started working.
And I got the inevitable question: “What do you do for a living?”
So, I explained to her that I write for an affair recovery blog and that our hope is to help people recover their marriages and/or recover themselves.
Then, the woman told me her entire affair story, from beginning to end, but it had a twist. Since her story was different and since she was so candid and made no excuses, I asked her if I could write about it.
She shrugged and said, “Sure.” She had the confidence of someone who did not care what strangers thought of her and figured if she was going to say it out loud, it was fair game for discussion. She literally did not care what I thought.
I watched a TV show called The Facts of Life when I was younger. While the woman on the plane looked nothing like the character called “Jo” on the TV show, she had the same kind of unshakable confidence and a bit of an edge just like Jo.
Only this Jo was now in her mid-60’s and looked like a very suntanned Italian grandmother. (Yes, I have an Italian immigrant on one of the many sides of my family- so not offense to Italians.)
I am going to share this conversation with her, not for you to judge her. I am sharing this because it provides a very rare perspective that most people would NOT admit to, let alone tell a stranger.
I am representing her attitude exactly as it was and using the same specific words and phrases she used.
This conversation is important because it is an example of extreme hypocrisy, but it is also an example of what the other woman thinks of the wife. I am not trying to hate on her. I just want you to read “from the horse’s mouth” exactly what was said, rather than speculating.
Since this woman saw herself as guiltless, she did not care if I shared her affair story where she framed herself as a victim. More people got to hear about her victimization? Well, that was all good from her perspective.
Jo’s Affair Story
I will call this woman Jo and the conversation went like this:
Jo: So why do you write about helping people put their marriages back together? I kicked my husband to the curb after 30 years.
Me: Why did you do that?
Jo: Found out he had one girl slightly younger than me and a fling older than me. If he couldn’t realize I was the best woman, there was nothing to work out. So, I divorced him.
Me: Do you regret having the marriage end?
Jo: Why would I regret it? I know I am better than anyone else out there and if he couldn’t figure that out, I wasn’t wasting my time.
Me: Do you guys have kids and are they okay?
Jo: Yeah, we have them. But, that doesn’t matter.
Me: Do you ever regret not being married?
Jo: No, why would I regret it? He was supposed to be loyal to me. And if he couldn’t see he had the best, I wouldn’t stick around. People should not have affairs on their spouses and if your spouse has an affair, you gotta kick ‘em to the curb. That’s the only thing to do. He messed with the wrong person because no one cheats on me and gets away with it.
Me (in debelief): It must have been very painful to lose your marriage.
Jo: People shouldn’t cheat on their spouse. It’s wrong. And these women were wrong to go after my husband. They REALLY went after my husband too—you should have seen those bitches.
Me: Yes, I understand. I was in the same situation. Someone went after my ex too. I am still recovering from it.
Jo: You broke up?
Me: Yes and I am so glad we did not have children although I lost a house in it.
Jo: It doesn’t matter; you can’t waste your time with these jerks and these stupid bitches who go after married men.
Me: So, have you been able to remarry or find a long-term partner?
Here is where her affair story has a big twist….
Jo: Yeah, there was a guy I knew for years. We had been friends and such and sometimes me and my husband had dinner with him and his wife. He was in a big circle of people I know. We were pretty close to them as a couple.
Me: So what happened?
Jo: We had an affair—it was real passionate and crazy sex.
Me: Was he still married?
Jo: Yeah, what does that matter? I was single.
Me: Well, you were cheated on and pretty upset about it. Did it bother you knowing that you were dating a married man?
Jo: Actually, that was not a problem. I was single, you see. I am a very beautiful and desirable woman and I cannot help it if he fell in love with me.
Me: But there was a wife and you knew her…
Jo: That doesn’t matter. I was single and obviously she didn’t know how to keep her husband at home. That is her problem. He and I had a real connection; a real love connection and he didn’t love her at all.
Me: Do you still date him?
Jo: That dog? Do I still date that dog? No, I do not.
Me: Did his wife find out?
Jo: No, we were careful and smart – of course she did not find out. But, we are all in the same big circle of friends. I was invited to their 35th wedding anniversary and I went so it wouldn’t look weird since she was my friend.
Me: So it really did not bother you that you were having sex with the husband of a friend you had known for years?
Jo: Why should I care about her? I told you I was single and it is her problem. I did absolutely nothing wrong and I am guiltless.
Me: So what happened at the anniversary party? Did she find out?
Jo: No. You should have seen that traitor. You should have seen the way he looked at his wife. Her looked at her as if he actually loved her. I could see it in his eyes; he loved her and he had lied to me. That dog had tricked me!! That disgusting dog used me for sex while he loved his wife all along. Can you believe that?!
Me: That must have been a very strange experience to be there and see it for yourself. Did you break up?
Jo: Yes because I hated that f***ing dog after that. He called me for sex and I told him to f*** off because he used me and he lied to me. Can you believe he did that to me? He said he loved ME. But he lied.
Me: Unfortunately, I have to say that your story is a common one because men can separate sex and love. I am sorry.
Jo: Then why didn’t my husband stay with me?
Me: I thought you said you left… given time he would probably would have let them go. Affairs appear to have a life-cycle and if you stick around long enough and set boundaries, some men will stay. Not all – just some.
Jo: Well, I left, but he made me leave because of those women. I am too beautiful to take that. I refused to stay if he could not see my greatness.
Me: Have you been able to find someone since? I sure hope you have found someone.
Jo: No, I have not. But I know I am a beautiful woman and any man would want me. I need to get out more.
Me: Have you tried online dating?
Jo: Yes. Can you believe that guy tricked me? He sent me a photo from 15 years ago! He was an old man in his 60’s.
Me: May I ask how old you are?
Jo: I am in my mid-60’s but it doesn’t matter. I am a beautiful and desirable woman and I deserve someone handsome. I don’t deserve to be tricked again. He had hair in the picture!! He was bald, can you believe that?
Me: Well, people age and I understand why you prefer honesty.
Jo: It was not that. I wanted the young man in the picture and not the old version. I didn’t even stay and talk to him.
Me: Well I sure hope you find someone.
Then a flight attendant came over and told us there had been an “irregular incident on the plane.”
She asked if the seat between us was taken. I told her is wasn’t. The flight attendant said she would be moving another passenger between us because of “an issue.”
Then, a mom of six children introduced herself and slid in between us. At that point Jo rolled her eyes and faced the window for the rest of the plane ride.
The mom said a man who appeared to be in his 20’s was trying to fondle her own 16-year-old and so somehow this mom ended up between us. Don’t know why, but that was that.
That woman also had an affair story within her own extended family. It was the usual nastiness—families divided—children harmed—and no good came from it.
Nothing new to report there.
Jo’s affair story was interesting for several reasons:
- She had left her husband due to his affair—because he victimized her (in her mind) by having an affair. Many men and women feel victimized but hers was more about her ego.
- Then she had a long-term affair with her friend’s husband and saw herself as completely innocent in the whole thing.
- When she saw her married lover actually loved his wife (her friend) she felt victimized again.
- She never saw the fact that she was having sex with her friend’s husband as an issue—she was guiltless and doing nothing wrong since she was single.
- She also believed that if her friend knew how to keep her man, he wouldn’t have to go to her—her friend forced her own husband to have sex with Jo. (In Jo’s mind because obviously she (Jo) felt herself to be the better woman.
- She told the story with complete candor and had no insight into how it sounded to someone outside the situation and she did not care.
It’s very rare to hear a betrayed wife tell a story about having affairs with married men after her divorce. They can happen, but I don’t hear them often.
Sometimes wives wonder if the other woman has any conscience whatsoever about how the other woman is destroying the wife’s family.
Well, the answer is many times the other women see themselves as completely guilt-free. They see themselves as desirable women and feel hostile toward the wife who “is not woman enough” to keep her own husband.
Or they want to take the place of the wife. They want her entire life.
A long time ago, someone had called these women “skin suits.” I do not remember who originated the term, but it certainly describes what they want. It is the term I use for these types of other women. They are the scariest of them all.
Often, the other woman does not think about the wife at all. In their mind, it’s just them and a regular guy who are falling in love. Sure, he might be married, but that does not matter because Vaseline removes wedding rings in two seconds flat. Then it is like he isn’t married at all.
What wife? What family? Many other women live in a delusional world where they feel as if they are dating someone single who could be a future husband. They never think about how much harm they will do. Often wayward spouses occupy this same bubble.
The wife is not the other woman’s concern.
In Summary
It’s rare to hear that kind of affair story from a stranger especially since she was using complete candor.
She was an “N of one” and surely does not represent all other women. However, from my experience, there are other women who feel the same way as Jo.
Betrayed spouses…
- Do you think if you divorced you could have an affair with a friend’s husband or wife and feel guilt-free?
- Do you have any stories where the other woman or man displayed her/his “true colors” in terms of how little she/he cared?
- Knowing what you went through, how does this make you feel?
- Is the other woman or man truly “guiltless” if she/he is single—or is she/he a co-conspirator to a crime? (The attempted murder of a marriage)?
Wayward spouses…
- What did the other person (your affair partner) tell you and did they know your betrayed spouse?
- Was your affair partner callous toward your wife/husband and family or did he or she pretend to want a “fun and non-committed” relationship?
How do you all view Jo? Was this a hurt woman trying to get even in the wrong way or is this someone with a double standard? That is—she can do what she wants, but the second someone does it to her, that person is “kicked to the curb”?
Let’s hear from everyone!
Doug talks with several ex-unfaithful persons who share their experiences, thoughts and feelings. They answer the most asked questions betrayed spouses typically have for the cheater.
Photos credits:
coloredgrey
Ricardo Liberato
Ashley Webb
51 replies to "Mile High Affair Club: The Affair Story on a Plane"
There is only one word to describe this woman.
Delusional.
I’ve met a lot of people like her who justify their own actions while severely condemning others who do the same thing.
I would never cheat on my wife because I’ve felt the horrifying effects it has on the betrayed spouse. It doesn’t matter what I’m entitled to – no one should feel the pain I’ve been through.
NearlyNormal
I agree. I would not cheat b/c two wrongs don’t make a right and just b/c someone cheated on you doesn’t give you the “pass” to cheat on them.
I learned this @ 20 yo. My BF cheated on me. Then he dumped me and then decided he wanted to get back together. It wasn’t going well (second time around) so I cheated on him by going out with another guy a few times. It was wrong and I never did it again.
People have this attitude if “I deserve to be happy ???? “. Yes everyone deserves happiness but not at the expense of their M or children or family (or breaking the law).
Honestly when guys hit on me (and/or have made “suggestions”) I immediately lose all respect for them and think they are lowlifes. And then I feel sorry for their spouse or GF.
My husband’s EA partner knew me (we were not close friends) but she was two faced around me and obviously didn’t care one bit about my feelings.
I don’t think I have it in me to betray one of my friends by cheating with their husband….actually, I know I could never do that.
The woman on the plane is completely self focused and has a complete sense of entitlement!!!
I do not comprehend this at all. I will never be that person. I never considered a revenge affair or anything like that. I have and will always remain true to myself first and what I believe in. That has been a critical ah ha moment that my husband was not true to himself and he betrayed himself first. From there it was a slippery slope downward. It does not make any of this easier.
OMG some people are just beyond redemption and any kind of sympathy. I’m so sorry you had to endure an 8 hour flight next to that!
My guess is the real story is Ms. Entitlement’s husband left HER. HE kicked HER to the curb. And being the small minded, materialistic person she is, she decided if she got crapped on she’s going to crap on somebody else and unfortunately the nearest person to crap on from her perspective was her friend. I’m sure she saw her husband as easy pickings. Cheaters put off that vibe. Didn’t take much for her to close in on him. What a lazy biotch! Couldn’t even bother to go beyond her own circle.
I find it laughable, and I don’t know how or if you actually contained yourself Sarah, that she call the MM a rat because he loved his wife. She could see it in his eyes at their anniversary party?!?!? And she went to her MM affair partner’s anniversary party!!! Wow, just Wow.
Most the time beautiful self confident people don’t have to tell others how beautiful/handsome they are. Especially when you are face to face with them. I also love how OW are so anxious to believe the MM when she KNOWS he’s a proven liar/cheater. HAHA and they call BW desperate!
Date a married man??? LOLOLOL, were I to find myself single again I am hard pressed to find myself dating ANY man let alone a married man. So HELL NO to “would I date a MM”?? Well maybe if he were George Clooney. Yes I’d make an exception for George Clooney!!! But then again he would have to have a brain tumor to date me when married to Amal 🙂 So, again No Thanks.
TH. Very funny by post.
Yes the cheating divorced woman on the plane is a piece of work. So she was D b/c her H cheated and then she cheats and is OUTRAGED the lying MM ❤️ (loves) his wife.
Don’t women get that when you have an A with a MM or OM you are merely a side piece? The OM “loves” you. Yeah until his W shows up lol. Then you are thrown under the bus as the OW!
And BTW – my friend’s H looks like George Clooney. He really does. Everyone says it. And he hates to go out to parties b/c women throw themselves at him all the time. He has to peel them off him at parties etc. and it is nauseating to say the least. I feel bad for him b/c he is a very moral person.
It’s not even funny anymore unfortunately. Some people have no respect.
TFW— thanks. I’m glad i could make you laugh.
ugh. I can’t stand boorish women who do that. George is handsome for sure but I’d never humiliate myself to throw myself at his look alike ????. Now the real George mayyyyybe. But I’d have to do something with that darn Amal!!
Hello All,
Thanks for the comments all. ????
For any prayer warriors, light workers, or senders of “good vibes,” please send them all towards our beloved Hawaiian Islands. These islands are about to be hit by the largest hurricane in recorded history.
My husband, children and I came here to Hawai’i for a vacation. However, our return ticket is scheduled for next Monday. By next Monday there may be no airport. We are going to be here when the hurricane hits whether we like it or not. (And all outbound flights are booked).
I fear for my youngest who suffers from autism. He also gets extremely anxious if anything is different. He panics and his panic attacks are painful to watch. He cries, screams, and nearly shakes himself (metaphorically) out of his body. I am always there to hold him and calm him, but he has such a hard time.
So anyone who believes in intervention from a higher power that answers prayers, please send prayers to these beautiful islands and all the tourists and locals who are here. The locals who live here full time will be in even worse shape than the tourists. So, include all in your prayers.
????????❤️????????
Many blessings,
Sarah
TryingHard,
Lol times a million. Thanks for your response. I needed a laugh. More of your style of humor, please.
In the moment, I was so shocked that I was hearing this woman’s story and the way she told it that it was like being a deer in the headlights. I was too stunned to laugh.
But when everyone was boarding the plane I had a moment where I couldn’t stop laughing because I was not in the conversation.
There was this very tall woman in her 20’s who was wearing a bra and no shirt. She had all these facial piercings. The female flight attendant who appeared to be in her 50’s told the 20-something to get a shirt out of her bag or she would be kicked off the plane. The 20-something kept yelling, “I am not wearing a bra! This is a shirt! I can’t help it if you are not smart enough to see it’s a shirt!” Then another flight attendant arrived and gave the 20-something a very preppy looking shirt to borrow. She either wore the preppy shirt or she got kicked off the plane. She had a tantrum again and then finally opted to wear “the preppy shirt of shame.” She was horrified that she had to wear a preppy shirt over her bra. And yes, she was wearing a bra before that. I laughed a lot at that.
Sarah
TH, I second the motion for George!
Sending happy safe vibes out to the universe for you Sarah, as well as my coworker, good friend, and all the Hawaiian people.
I’m glad i could bring humor to the subject of infidelity. I really believe laughter is the best medicine. We take ourselves wayyy too seriously sometimes.
Of course im going to say i wouldn’t date a MM. because that’s where I’m at right now.
But i don’t know Miss Airplanes circumstances. I believe her experience with her husbands cheating traumatized her to an extent that maybe she changed her moral code and chose to cheat with a MM as well. I do know emotional trauma and physical trauma as well changes people and sometimes for the worse. No one really knows what they will or will not do in the future. During DDays i know i did many things i swore I’d NEVER do!! But something primal took over and i still can’t believe to this day it was me who did those things. The brain is a weird thing.
Personally I’ve learned to stop saying “I would never do x,y,z” because i just don’t know for sure. Life has taught me this. So who knows? I could very well hit my head and decide to start wearing sparkly spandex, go to the nearest bar and shake my boom boom money makers at the nearest stranger who could be a married man!! But for right now, today, no thank you. I’m good ????
Sarah, Sending lots of positive thoughts your way. Both for your safety, your son and you coping with this stress and the people and islands of Hawaii. What is interesting is I have not seen one news report of this hurricane. The new coverage is dominated by the current chaotic political environment. It is a really challenging and sad time for our country right now. Stay safe!!
I think Trying Hard hits the nail on the head. As Ashley Judd said once in her amazing TED Talk, trauma untreated is trauma transferred. In my opinion those who experience the trauma of betrayal have two choices when their lives are torn upside down: either face the fear and the pain and use the opportunity to look within to learn about ourselves, warts and all, and become a better person (both within and outside of a relationship), which takes a lot of really hard and scary work. Or live in denial and come up with excuses and blame and never take that step to look at the person we are – not only do we not grow when we make this choice but we then become the very people we despise through our own actions. Sometimes we deny for a while and focus only on our own pain so much until it becomes too much and choosing the first option becomes the only option to start living again (that was me anyway). but I feel blessed that I started that process, even if some days are brutal. Some people just can’t go there. The woman on the plane has a great deal of self-loathing. Women who love themselves have boundaries and don’t sleep with married men or believe the lies these men tell.
My husband said his affair partner was the nicest person he had ever met. When I finally told her husband that she and my husband were having an affair, she texted me this: “If my husband leaves me over this, I will FUCK your husband”. I later found out she was already fucking my husband. Poor her. She pursued my husband bc she was a bored housewife, poor thing. My husband had lost his job so they were spending their days together (in my storage unit…grosser than gross) while her husband and I were working to support our families. Yeah, she’s such a nice person.
Wow. The woman on the plane is something. My husband’s OW started out being an acquaintance and we went out with her and her husband a few times. When I first met her, the hair on the back of my neck bristled, but I didn’t listen. Later, she found out her husband was having an affair. She quickly threw him out and they divorced. My husband was more friends with her than I was and he helped at times. I thought nothing of it because he’s a good guy. Then odd things started to happen. it seemed like it was an emotional affair. I addressed it with him. He assured me it was nothing. Then, there were late night conversations, text messages I came across, emails. I gave him an ultimatum. He said he left her. I saw her in the grocery store. Told me he lied. We exchanged text messages at times. She told me that “when he leaves you it will be because he loves me. You pushed him to me. You can’t hold your man.” Etc. – like the woman on the plane. I told her “married men don’t leave their wives, the wives leave them. And if you think he’s not lying to you, you are a fool”.
To keep this short, my husband and I are still together, figuring it out. Last year, there was one last incident with her. She felt she did nothing wrong. It “just happened” and they both deserve to be happy and in love. I told her she was a pathetic, middle aged divorced woman for going after another woman’s husband. I called her a “w ***e”. and explained the definition. which is a woman with not morals. And I could not believe that she consciously made the decision to be the OW. I also said I could not believe she allowed her daughter to be aware of their affair, especially after the girl’s father was thrown out for cheating. She eventually did tell my husband that he had to leave me if he still wanted t be with her. As I said, he and I are figuring it out.
I am amazed at the “holier than thou” attitude. The rationalization of doing something wrong. The denial that because they are single it is okay to be with a married man, if the wife isn’t “doing anything to keep their man”. I could not be the other woman. I could not disrespect the wife. It goes against my grain.
Thanks
TLS— i heard the very same thing. “She’s such a nice person. I wish you two could sit down and talk” ????. To which i replied “oooo I’d love to ‘sit down and talk with her’ Haha. I’d have cleaned her clock. In fact in the end i did.
And NO they are not nice people. Nice people don’t take from others. Nice people have moral compass. Nice people consider others. Nice people don’t conspire against other people particularly children. Indeed you proved she was not a nice person.
Long after He said those dumb words i reminded him he said that. He was horrified. Cheaters say so many stupid things when they are confronted. And apparently what your h and mine said is pretty common. It’s all deflection because it justifies the affair. Hey he chose a “nice person”!! How can anyone hate on that?!?
After D-Day, the affair continued, though my H told me it was over (several times). I finally confronted AP face-to-face. (I had never met her before, and she didn’t seem to know who I was until I told her) She was shocked and horrified when I showed up, introduced myself and told her I wanted her to see me, that I was a real person, and that she was f-ing with my life. I appealed to her ‘woman-to-woman’ … “real women don’t do this to each other. Mothers don’t rip apart the lives of children and families”. She apologized. The next day she called me (H still denies having given her my number) and said it was over. I actually thought I had gotten through to her. Thought that maybe she was ‘nice’ , was a person with some semblance of integrity, and that she had come to see the reality of what she was involved in. Guess again. It continued … for several weeks. Eventually, when H kept insisting that it was over, i emailed her (of course I had her email address from all the communication between them) and told her that if there was ANY more communication, I was going to tell her husband. Seemed to do the trick – for a while. Then i found more emails between them. I told her the emails were all ready to go to her husband, BUT I would delay that if she gave me information that I needed about the affair. She agreed to meet – well, let me tell you, it was an interesting meeting. Got lots of good info that I needed to confront H. And to be honest, she wasn’t an evil person, she wasn’t the slut/whore/temptress I had created in my mind. She was ‘nice’. And, that kinda helped me in a weird way. I could see how the ‘friendship’ could have started between them, and while there is no excuse for the EA …. again, in a twisted, weird way, I was somehow relieved that my H did not go after some stereotype I have of the OW. Just sharing real feelings … I may be doing all kinds of unhealthy protecting of my H, creating a fantasy that somehow helps me cope … I don’t know. But wanted to share .
Ostara—. It is you who have hit the nail on the head and put it much more eloquently than i. Very very good comment.
Dealing with trauma is not easy at all. Some go with the path of least resistance such as turning around and having a revenge affair. Although most likely Miss Airplane wouldn’t call it or even be aware what she was doing was a revenge affair. She was mad at the world for her shitty hand. So to feel better she’d make sure she got hers!!
I agree that woman had a lot of self loathing
TryingHard- thank you for your comments. My h and I are in counseling and are also working things out. They just ended their affair on July 19th, so really we are just starting in the process. I still get hung up on him STILL putting her on a pedestal (she made him feel whole, he could tell her anything about himself, good or bad, bc she listened without judgment, she complimented him, blah blah blah). These were comments made to me just last week. I just want him to see her as the liar and cheater and NOT NICE person she is. Please tell me that he will at some point!!! He has been trying, but still won’t talk much about it and obviously still thinks highly of her which is frustrating. I’m just trying to look at the progress that has been made, and hope the rest will come.
TLS – Hang in there. My H told me much of the same, when asked. I am only a few weeks ahead of you in the EA being over. My H admitted along the long road of breaking it off that he was having trouble doing so due to the friendship, how she made him feel … yuck. But a couple of weeks ago I noticed a change in him (seemed to be less withdrawn, less mopey) and asked him what was up. He said he was relieved it was over. That he feels he is over her. It took awhile (probably 2 months of no contact between them) but it was a huge turning point. I am hoping the same for you and your H. Keep focusing on the progress (easier said than done, I know)
stay alert-he is not mopey? My guess ids that he has reconnected.
I am confident he has not – My gut instinct has become my greatest tool, and I am trusting it.
After experiencing the unbelievable pain of my H’s affair, I simply don’t have the capacity to inflict that pain on another woman, especially a friend.
I naturally felt worthless so I did fly out of town to visit my girlfriend in another state leaving my 3 children with my H. I did join her and a group of single girls for a night out at a lounge. (Not normal for me, as I never did that!) I had men “hit on” me, which by dancing with them I felt a little boost to my wounded ego and I felt a little better about myself. But, a dance and a little conversation on the dance floor was all there was.
My H also told me that his OW was such a nice person. She told him he was the nicest man she had ever met. That threw me into a frenzy & I said “So this nice younger woman, willingly committing adultery with a married man with a wife & 3 kids, is nice? And you’re a nice man, lying to your wife and children, spending money on her that should go to his family, ignoring all responsibilities at home, is a nice man? How low have you both placed the bar on nice??”
This post really resonated with me, and for the first time since my husbands’s affair (DDay is at the end of this month… 3 years), I am leaving the safe haven of being a passive reader to coming out and actively commenting. TLS – I heard the exact same comments, and it took time for the reality of who she was to sink in to my husbands fog. And having a third party pointing it out.
My H’s affair was very traumatizing, but the short of it was that he was depressed, mentally sick (yes he had a nervous breakdown) and unemployed at the time. His response was to blame his unhappiness and circumstances on me. And being very vocal about it. A victim of my choices, etc. There is more, but it would be too long to relate. I gave him an ultimatum to stop blaming others, work on himself, learn gratitude, and for emotionally abusive ways (stonewalling, threatening to leave and divorce me if I pushed any issues) and he refused saying that I didn’t love him for “who he was.” Left with his crossing of the line in the sand, I asked him for a break to spend time working on myself (there was so little left of who I had been). We had done this early on in our marriage and it had worked wonders, but we were now dealing with 30 years of bad habits. While I was dealing alone with kids,home, bills, pets, etc.he decided to start all over again fresh rather than owning up to responsibilities and dealing with marital issues. So he agreed to be set up by a “friend” (no longer), and I had no idea. Their “friendship’ progressed, and quickly became physical. But the thing that I STILL cannot wrap my head around is that she was one year out from a divorce that resulted from her husband’s affair. My husband asked for an expedited divorce within a couple weeks of meeting her, and when asked REPEATEDLY, he denied that there was anyone else. When he had his breakdown, his therapist forced him to confess ( I didn’t know this until later) and I had to confront her to find out if it was true or just delusional (nervous breakdown) thinking on his part. This is the part that still feels like a cruel form of gaslighting to me. She denied it (he had already confessed the progression to a physical affair), and then went on to tell me about how much worse her experience had been about discovering her own husband’s affair (WTF??). And that she was just helping my husband out as a “concerned friend.” She told me how her son had discovered her H’s affair inadvertently and how it had destroyed and hurt them immeasurably. Now I know that she is an intelligent person (her job demands a high level of it), so I know that she must on some level been aware of the hypocrisy.But HOW could she calmly sit on the phone discussing her similar experience, compete in the pain olympics, and then lie to me??? (he had already confessed to the physicality that had been initiated on HER part)
Here are my thoughts.
I believe that no one can fully understand the complete and utter devastation unless you go through it. So, what is her excuse to deny that she is doing that to someone else? Second, how could she buy into the lopsided blame story? I guess because she wanted to believe that I was all evil and deserved it. AND WHY DO I CARE AND NEED TO UNRAVEL IT ALL? On good days I don’t care, but at anniversary times like this, it sucks me down into the black hole and I struggle to understand how someone who supposedly loved you, could paint such an ugly picture and leave you alone to deal with it all? Bills, broken family, dying pet…
I see this in my wifes AP. He was cheated on and divorced for seven years when the affair started. Granted he said he would stop replying to the continued contact 6 weeks after d day. This was after my wifes best friend talked to him to stop. Six months later my wife reached out to him and the affair was back on. I contacted him to remind him of his previous commitment not to respond or contact my wife. He responded that i needed to basically become a better man “like him” if i was to keep my wife. I told him to go eff himself. If he thought his moral compass was so straight he should let all his friends, ex-wife and kid know that he was now having an affair. He never responded back after that. They see themselves as the victim. Why should they care if the cheating spouse pursues a single person. The faithful spouse must be a inferior person than themselves. I had met him and feel he is a type of person that has a lot of blaming tendencies. It was one of the laments my wife could affirm him on how bad his job, coworkers, situation was because of other people negative energy. The only thing that those three things had in common was him. He would talk to people about how to shift other peoples negative energy to change the situation. It was his energy that needed changing.
Yes it’s one thing to dehumanize someone you’ve never met or seen. But it’s another when they have spoken with you and the situation becomes real. I guess they have to build a story in their head.
Struggling, most of my H’s issues happened when he was unemployed and bored so I can relate. He naturally has no self confidence anyway so these times made it even worse. I mean, the last thing I would do if I was feeling miserable is turn to another man so I’m not sure why these guys think that is acceptable.
Rose, thanks for the response.
I guess I was used to some humility, but i never thought another would solve my issues. I gave up a promising career because he traveled, and we had some big challenges with our three kids. I accept that that was my choice too. My counselor really called him out. Pointed out that he was “entitled” throughout our relationship. And I allowed him to be because I was afraid he would leave. But he did anyway, so my worst fear happened.
I know my part in it. But I really believe that trying times can either challenge you/one to grow and change, or they/you can repeat, repeat, repeat and remain miserable. I hope I have learned and grown from this experience. and that is all that I can control. That, and my response to him. The pain is receding, but sometimes it catches you by surprise and knocks you down. I refuse to let it define me, though, and know that I won’t let it beat me if it happens again.
Interesting how similar our experiences are.
The AP is a “nice” person. Our CS is a very “nice” person.
Because it is all false. It’s Fantasyland.
The A is not real life and the participants are pretending to be something they are not.
No one in an A deals with sick kids (together) b/c that is left to the BS. No money problems (at least they are not admitted), no excessive drinking (b/c the APs ate out drinking together and that’s not a problem exceot hit the BS) etc.
They “communicate ” and “understand each other”. The AP “listens” and “supports them”.
Well if my H shared half the crap he shared with he OW I would have listened. He claims I never supported him (what a load of utter crap) and I didn’t understand him. ????.
He was so far from reality during his A it was laughable.
Good news! Now I am the move if his life and the best thing that ever happened to him.
Please make up your freakin’ mind already! This is worse than middle school romances.
We are 5 years out and R but during his A I felt insane!!!! He had me like a yo-yo. He wants a D. Changes his mind. Wants a D. Doesn’t want a D. But of course never admitted the OW was still around.
????♀️ SMH
Same 🙁
The “pick me” dance in full swing. I think the shock stops us from really processing what is happening and we just react.
H’s AP was so “nice” that he told our daughter that she would love her and that she would get along with her great! I finally gave up when he left me for the third time in three months and started drawing hard boundaries. He filed and I looked for a very tough lawyer. I had reached my limit despite my shock. When their affair was in the open and they were free to carry on in public… it was not such a fantasyland. Too bad they had to leave a path of destruction in their wake before the thrill wore off.
TryingHard…well said! This is my credo too! “Never say never” and try not to judge because you don’t know the situation of the other person until you are in his/her shoes! And I too did some really surprising things I thought no way that’s inside me during this 1 year of EA rollercoaster…yes exactly like something primal takes over you…but I glad those primal feelings and behaviors came out and now I know I’m not just that really calm and nice wife I have other darker feelings and I can show them not just burying it inside….I believe those helped me understand myself better , look even deeper in my heart and use the whole EA situation for personal growth! Still not finished ????
And as to the unbelievable(?) situation in the story; yes unfortunately it’s true they live in the bubble where no wife and family exist! I was outraged when I first heard about it from my husband…we are (H and OW) not responsible for the CSs (both side) , the spouse has to deal with it and if she OK with it my H and OW have no bad feelings what she’s/he’s doing with him that’s just their personal business…my H behaves like the OW is single, I had to tell him many times,: you are not just a cheater you are a OM too to a CS you are hurting somebody…in the real life, in another continent she is married for more than 25 years (the affair still hidden from the husband, she has been gaslighting him now for 2 years) with 3 children (but they are adult so my H and OW think it will not affect them or the OW !!! Seriously?) When I first heard that I couldn’t believe it and this is a clear indication for me affair bubble/fog real and have a strong hold …I really don’t understand how they don’t see how much pain and suffering they inflict on everybody; spouses, kids, family, friends… if they love each others so deeply as they telling everybody, especially for each other, if it’s the real deal, the LOVE of the century…how they can cause pain even to each other, asking the other to change themselves to a person without honor, integrity and honesty and family…what they think will happen when the fog is lifting and they have to face with the mess they made, the problems they inflicted on the people they love????
Somebody please explain it to me????????????
Hi Polly
It’s funny how life teaches us lessons. It takes a while to learn to say, never say never. But it’s true. As far as judging I know we shouldn’t but if you think about it we judge every day all day. It’s innate and an instinct. So don’t be too hard on yourself if you are judging something/someone. It’s ok really. The trick is NOT saying your judgement out loud 🙂
Yes I was def on the crazy train during DDay and it’s aftermath. I’m a rule follower. Speed limit says 50, I drive 50. Don’t even think about crossing that double no passing mark on the roads not even if there’s a tractor driving 10mph. Rules are in place to keep society in order. I always wanted to play my part in keeping societal order. Well DDay tossed all that out the window. And yes maybe I did somethings that could have gotten me arrested where it not for my innocent old lady “who me???” face! Do I regret it? One part says yes I do. I regret lowering myself to that level of desperation and lack of emotional control But then there’s that little voice that says damn right!!! So hey there’s that and I did what I did. I’m telling you when I say I lost my s^*t I am not even kidding. And it was very scary for my family and that part I reallllly do regret. Making them worry about me.
As to if they know they are hurting people with their affair? I say Yes they do know and they don’t care. Cheaters have a million excuses for their choices. They truly excuse it away. Of course they know they are hurting people, THEY DON’T CARE. I know it seems impossible that someone YOU care for so deeply is capable of not caring, but it is true. Once the BS figures this out that whole WHY/HOW question will disappear. At least that is what worked for me. Once I figured out that my h carried on a 4 year affair regardless that he knew he was hurting me if I found out (and BTW they believe we will never find out because they are so clever at hiding it), and regardless the guilt he felt (because he KNEW what he was doing was wrong on so many levels), he simply did.not.care. He bathed himself in justifications, excuses, and entitlement. It’s called self preservation and we are ALL capable of self preservation.
Anyway once I figured this out my little rule following pea brain gave that whole HOW/WHY circular argument a rest. Learning that someone doesn’t care is MUCH easier to grasp then any answer to How or Why.
So I hope I’ve helped you. And yes your husband sounds like he is in full blown “I don’t care” mode. I hope he figures it out soon or I hope you figure out not to wait any longer and quit putting up with his “I don’t care” mode of total disrespect to you.
Hugs to you Polly. It does get easier I promise you.
Trying Hard
Interesting isn’t it!!!! I asked my husband recently (nearly five years after d-day) if he even thought about what it would do to me if I found out about the EA….he said NO!!! It that doesn’t say I don’t care….I don’t know what else does. Yet he becomes rather offended if I say he didn’t care about me, during that time.
Like your husband mine struggled with guilt….but you’re right he just didn’t care enough to do something about it.
SI
LOL! Yes admitting to not caring would imply one is a heartless bastard. Cheaters may do despicable things, but they are also heavily into impression management. We grew apart, I love you but I’m not in love with you, she’s a nice person, she’s my soulmate etc etc etc. All that crap is impression management. They do not want anyone to think they are heartless or cruel etc. Victims of their stupidity is ok though 🙂 AND they only admit that once the affair is over!
We all know those people who simply generally in life do.not.care. There are those who go about day in and day out acting as if the world is their oyster. They do not care. I will say that our mates while in and affair become one of those people. Whatever they are getting out of the affair does enough for their ego or psyche that they simply do not care. Like drug addicts. Addicts know they are hurting themselves and the people around them. They don’t care. They only care about the drug. Cheaters in the affair fog are like drug addicts. At least in my experience.
I think this notion of not caring is very curious. I never really thought about not caring until I saw someone post one time on FB or Insta that they were giving up caring for lent! Think about it what caring has done both for yourself and against yourself. LOL I think I may give up caring for Lent next year 🙂
Maybe your H hasn’t given enough thought to the idea that he didn’t care. And I get that. No one wants to admit they are uncaring.
TH
I like that term “Impression Management” It would pain my husband greatly to have the world view him as “uncaring”!! The thing is he does genuinely care about people and treats them with kindness and caring. So for him to admit he “didn’t care about me” would go against his own moral code.
He just didn’t care enough….what I thought became irrelevant!! During his affair I BECAME IRRELEVANT!! His own needs and issues called louder.
I think that is still part of what I struggle with….he has never lied and betrayed anyone in his life as badly as he treated me by cheating. Yup….and the experts tell us it’s not about us. It was nothing personal….right. So why if it was nothing personal, was I the one left picking up the pieces…..crying everyday for at least three years??
It will always be a mystery to me…
Polly it is difficult to explain what goes on in the cheater’s mind during the Affair.
But the A is an addiction and escape. All at once. The cheater doesn’t have to be a parent or be responsible or pay bills. She/He can be a sexy skanky person whose only intention is to have sex with the AP.
The cheater lives happily in Fantasyland. It’s so wonderful b/c the AP doesn’t ask questions like “did you bring home the milk?” Or “do we have money to pay the rent?”
The AP listens. Because they haven’t heard the same stupid story 500 times. Or they aren’t distracted by a kid having a temper tantrum. they have no responsibility except show up and have sex!!!!
Sounds like a nice gig if you can get it. But it’s not real. And most of us realize that an A is wrong AND it’s fake. Fake love. Fake person. Fake relationship. The thrill of the secret and iliicit – that is what makes an A work.
I just laugh when I hear the soulmate crap. Because at DDay the AP is thrown under the bus. “It didn’t mean anything”.
Gee if the AP meant “nothing” then what were in the emails and Snapchat messages all hours of the day and night? Why were they hidden if it was “nothing”?
I learned you just cannot make sense out if an A or cheaters. It is completely illogical.
TFW
I totally agree with what you are saying…..an affair is totally A FAKE RELATIONSHIP!!! What a great way of putting it.
Polly. I forgot to add that the first night my H kissed the OW (up that point it was an EA) – he came and told me. He was ashamed of his behavior.
However 10 days later he wants a D.
He then became your average garden variety snake. He was no better than the rest of the cheaters.
I thought better of him b/c he at least was honest. Little did I know – he was planning to D me to be with the OW.
Thanks, all for some of the best comments ever. I laughed at the “old lady face”! I have that down as well.
Thank you TryingHard and TheFirstWife and all of you here !
You both helped me a lot with your kind words and advices …if nothing else you guys in this blog show me I’m not alone in this s###t and the EA not a “rare never-ever happened huge LOVE story” because I can read your stories and they all kind of follow the same universal script and all of us, BS on the other side of the affair feels the same, goes true the almost same stages and grows enormously as a person, survives and even trives…and this is definitely gives so much hope for people who are just started this journey or stucked somewhere you to will trive at the end!!!! I can’t believe the road I traveled in this past year … I was a totally devastated mess…crying every day, not sleeping, loosing weight, a nervous rack…and now I’m finding my confidence and happiness again…learning so much about myself and relationships…realizing how to communicate affectively…going for new adventures!
And where are the cheaters ? still stuck in fantasy land left way behind in personal growth or at least understanding the situation… it’s really sad, actually devastating when the ONE is left behind still going through the same circles everyday, still in fog is the person you love most …and you want to help him/her but you can’t …you always try (books, blogs, website or just explaining, try reasoning…I tried all) but you realize after the 100 attempts you can’t and won’t they have to go through their journey alone and grow or be stuck for a long-long time …and you have to watch them and find a hope to believe they will find it before you are so way ahead of the road there is no point where the roads are coming together again…
And as the “don’t care” part …yes I kind of realizing it’s there but still can’t accept it… my H are really sorry all the time, really ashamed, telling me how bad of a person he is doing …yes I know he wants me to feel sorry for him so he can feel less ashamed…. And yes he still doing it…so yes in some level HE does not care or not enough or not in deep enough…I think the addiction so big and runs so deep now he can’t see clearly …or choose not to listen to the inside voice… just go through the days without drama and making sure he is getting his “drug” every day !
But reading the blog and a story of Linda&Dough shows it’s not impossible to came out together and stronger, happier! So I’m still choose HOPE … because at the end of the day my family is the most important thing and I truly believed/ believing in my marriage vow “ for better and worst” …maybe I’m naive and I’m not strong enough in the eyes of other people some even on this blog…but I know and I always will; I was kind, understanding and loving and I did everything in my power to give a chance to my marriage and hold my family together… I’m doing it for MYSELF not for him…so I could look back and say I was the person I can respect!
Polly
The main thing you need to take away is to always do what is right for YOU. Some will come here and ask for advice and then when it’s given well they don’t like hearing what has worked for us.
But what has worked for us may not necessarily work for another. We all get that. And we all have different “lines in the sand”. So don’t feel like you need to march in goose step with what the rest of us are saying or that you are being “judged”. TBH I don’t know if there is a wrong and right way when facing this stuff. So I guess what I’m saying is make sure to take what we say for what it is worth. It’s simply our own personal experience with infidelity and it’s aftermath. What has worked for us and what hasn’t
I hope you will continue to read and come back to this site because there are lots and lots of very good smart people here. Some even have compassion 🙂
Polly
TryHard is right….you need to do what is right for you. Only you will know when “enough is enough” or what that line in the sand is for you.
I hope you are taking care of you. Do you have a counselor or close friend that you can talk to? Also, It would be good to know what your legal rights are.
Polly. Just another nite along the same lines. What works for one cheater or BS may not work for another.
It’s hard to get anyone to “see” the damage being caused if they do t want to see it.
As an example / Tiger Woods cheated before, during and after his marriage. why get married? He knew what he was doing was wrong. But he decided not to care – because he put his Affairs as a priority.
Many cheaters do that. Their “needs” come first.
That is why you need to take care of you and do what is best for you. Whatever that may be.
So sorry ladies ..TFW, TryingHard and ShiftingImpression!!!
I know you have compassion if I would thought otherwise I never ever have written down my opinion and my situation on this blog …I was absolutely sure you guys read my post with the outmost kindness and understanding! And yes I will continue to read the blog because I really like the people here, their loving attitude and always helpful posts…
So again, so sorry if my post come across like something else…some “I know better than you” post that was not my intention and I believe me I truly see your points, I’m giving them serious thoughts !!!
I was just and still interested on what do you think of my situation and my thoughts and I’m curious if there is somebody with similar views!
And thank you for asking if I’m taking care of myself …yes , I have an awesome group of friends, I have my kids and I travel, read, walk on the beach , paint, crochet, bake!!!
No excuse for being an affair partner period! It amazes me the total selfishness, lack of self control, immaturity, lack of integrity and self loathing certain individuals have that would cause anyone to lower themselves to such a betrayal of thier own self worth.
No justification in the world excuses lust ful willing lies, betrayal, excuses, and abuse that walks hand in hand with adultery/betrayal period.
The arrogance of considering oneself of having or being of more value is ludicrous under such circumstances. Such is the case with the parasite on the plane. And to do it to a friend? Now that’s about as low as a person can get!
To many people suffer forever for the sins of ego driven individuals who lack self control and have no remorse nor dignity and find excitement in inflicting pain on numerous others . Some suffer the ultimate death. Like Shan’Ann, her daughters and her unborn son.
Like those who inherit contagious deadly diseases, PTSD, lose a parent, home, livelyhood, dignity, social status, jobs and so on, like the disease it is it sucks everything that is absolute and good from the lives of the innocent.
No excuse! None, at all!