Good Wednesday to everyone!
It’s pretty evident that an overwhelming percentage of people who comment on this site and have chosen to stay in their marriages and attempt to work things out, do so because they still love their spouse.
It is also evident that as the result of the affair, the love between you and your spouse has changed. This week we want to hear just how so.
How has the love changed between you and your spouse after the affair?
Is it more guarded?
Is there something lacking?
Is it better?
Please be sure to respond to each other in the comment section.
Thank you all so much for your contributions!
Linda & Doug
133 replies to "Discussion – How Has Your Love Changed After the Affair?"
My husband and I have been separated for over four months. We have been living in separate states for that long. My husband is still involved in his EA. I would have to say our love has changed a lot. Its so sad we were married for 22 years now we are like strangers. The only time we talk is when we are discussing our children. HE met this woman on the internet. she lives in a different state. HE gave everything up for a woman he has never met. They were going to meet up sometime in February but she cancelled out at the last minute for some reason. I am not sure if this can ne fixed. I would be willing to try but right now he is still really deep in the affair bubble.
Before affair i love my husband with all my life, i thought he’s the best man ever and he never treated me wrong. After the affair he said he loved me even more now, so i asked him ‘you didnt love me that much back then?’ he answered ‘i always love you that much, but now its even more.. i cant explain’.. For me, i dont think he’s that perfect anymore, but still love him that much and that makes everything more difficult.. i cant stop myself from taking care of him in daily basis and in the end of the night i always think that he doesnt deserve it.. I see that he regrets what he did very deeply and he’s been very depressed since he told me about the affair and saw the effect of it on me, and more because he knows that i still cant forgive him even though i still treat him good.. All this make my situation difficult, i feel like this is my time and my rights to be selfish and to do everything i want without thinking about him, but i cant do that because stupidly i still care so deeply about him and it looks like that he need more help than me right now and i’m the only person he has to support him.. I want to prioritize myself in this kind of time but seeing how vulnerable he is, i cant do that.. i know that i’m always the stronger person between the two of us, and i feel like i have to take care of him even now when he’s the one who created all these damages.. i feel that i have to hide my despair, anger, and emotion so his day will be fine.. and every night after all i’ve done to him, i always thought that he doesnt deserve this and i deserve my time and my rights to be selfish.. and when i do release my anger to him, i always feel sorry for him after that..
stillbroken, though your husband can use your help, support and understanding, it’s vitally important that you pay attention to you and your needs. Somehow you need to find a way to do that.
Stillbroken
PERFECT post …..its me.
Stillbroken,
It is true H is more damaged by all this than you are, otherwise he would have never gotten himself in this situation in the first place. But you can do little help and much more damage if you don’t fix yourself first, before helping your H.
I think of it as the analogy of rescuing a drowning person. If you dive in after them without thinking of yourself and your safety, in the panic and fear, the person drowning can easily pull you under and both rescuer and drowning person die.
But if you throw them a life ring, or think about what you may need, or let them tire themselves out first, you have a much greater chance of a successful rescue.
You must be able to understand your needs, access the situation, understand the risks, before attempting to perform a rescue. In other words, take care of yourself first.
I can totally relate to this. Although I don’t feel sorry when I release my anger, but that’s maybe because he isn’t at that point yet himself where he openly is regretful.
I know my love for my H is stronger and better than it was before the affair and I believe my H feels the same way towards me. But it took a lot of time, commitment, work and pain to get to this point …for both of us. I think we have both had moments of being more guarded, and we have both had moments when something was lacking and even now sometimes those feelings can creep up due to a trigger or a bad day. I believe that if the commitment is strong, the work is done, and you can get through the pain – it can be better than ever.
E,
This is my first time responding on this site; however, your situation provides me a bit of hope. After d-day, my W told me that her love for me has declined and because of the EA my love is dissolving daily. We both said that we want to make the marriage work, but the EA makes me see her as a different person completely and now I feel that my desire to say with her is fading.
How long does it take? Did you feel the way I do?
Uneasy, there is hope. The fact that you are both in agreement about trying to stay together is a good start. Yes there were many times when I felt as you do. When I saw my H as this man I did not even recognize and despised him for it. There were many times when I thought there was no way we would survive because the pain was so difficult to bear. If you really want to make it work try remembering your wife as the woman you fell in love with not the person she appears or appeared to be during or even just after the affair. When it came to my husband – I could not tell you who that person was. It’s like I didn’t know him at all. The reality for me is that the man I did know and love was still there. He just needed to feel safe enough to show himself to me again. I hope that all makes sense … I wish you the best.
E,
Exactly the same for me.
I suspect you are no longer on this site, but maybe someone else can tell me how you make your husband feel safe again? I want to tell my husband he can feel safe and comfortable with me but how can I make him feel it?
Excellent point, E: “I believe that if the commitment is strong, the work is done, and you can get through the pain – it can be better than ever.”
Hard to say. We have always loved each other deeply, I think, even in bad times, so it is hard to say that I ‘love him more’. I love him more cautiously now but that isn’t necessarily bad I think. I hold him more responsible for the daily acts and practice of love and I refuse (or would like to refuse) as Linda said the other day, to fall into the trap of being a good wife by making his life easier. So many things I did to smooth his life out and I don’t think I provided the opportunity for him to do this for himself or me. I thought I was doing a good thing in taking care of everything but now I realize that I need a partner who is loving in the everyday acts that maintain a life and I need a partner who asks himself: what does SHE need or want or how can I make her or our life better.
And he is onboard so I guess our deep love will be more than a bond of feeling now and rather something tangible, see-able, concrete in the flows and practices of living together as ordinary people.
I now am trying to love myself more too.
We have changed and for the better, I am grateful.
Thanks for sharing, Hopeful. I’d be curious to hear more about your process of trying to love yourself more. I think that is something that many others can use help with.
Hmmmm…. what is my process of trying to love myself. (And process it is because I struggle sometimes.)
Part of this is asking what I want from this relationship, specifically, and from life, more generally, as opposed to my usual mode of thinking about what everyone else needs without asking for or taking anything. This was not working at all for me and, ultimately, doesn’t allow others to be your partners.
I have TRIED (and failed and tried again) to eat well, live better, do work, clean, maintain peace, meditate, exercise, heal myself…I guess this is about getting busy and getting to work on things that involved me and not the EA. This was and still is a cyclical process.
Part of healing has, and I know this is controversial, includes letting go of my intense hatred of the OW. It has been toxic for me and it was useful to come to a deeper understanding of who she is and isn’t and what might have motivated her. Understanding her as weak and flawed and selfish, rather than evil, and just feeling sorry for her and her obvious pain and problems makes me feel more at peace, though I often feel weak for this tactic (as if standing my ground and hating her would be better and more reasonable). After all, she does not care a fig for me and is a B to me.
Healing has come by standing up for myself and trying to develop the parts of myself I’ve allowed to go undercooked or relied on my H for…This is a lifelong process but since my H is committing to something similar I think I also need to embark on a huge change.
Healing is also for me about finding the coherent whole story (or most of it…which took forever in our case and was the most painful extraction) and then accepting it. Working on triggers with vengeance and diligence. Facing, looking at, processing, dealing with head on the pain, fear, anger, sadness, disgust…rather than submerging it. I knew the only way through would be to tackle it in the open which is initial more painful and explosive but will be better for me longterm. I know some can bracket and move on but my brain needs to process more than some I guess.
Then, learning to forgive him and trust again. Promising to celebrate and commend small changes in H and for us and inhabiting and experiencing the joyfulness again without worrying about when it will end.
Hopeful, thank you for adding this … some things you spoke of I have done, some things I am still working on. But one that I can’t seem to begin yet to work on is “letting go of my intense hatred of the OW” I can’t seem to get there, I can’t even speak her name, it’s like she could possibly become real to me if I do. I still wait for the day or time when we run into her in public. My counselor wanted me to write her a letter (without sending of course) basically to “forgive and let her go” … I wrote the letter, but it basically just stated every possible thing I could think of what I really think of her, what I would like to happen to her, you get the picture. I would love to hear more about how you did this because I know I need to do it for myself. Doug, has this been a topic of discussion or a post?
E., I don’t believe we have discussed the letting go of the intense hatred of the OP in the past. We will be next Wednesday though 😉
E and Doug. I’ll be surprised if there are many BS’s that no longer have some degree of negative feelings toward the applicable OW or OM, and perhaps such feelings are, in fact, hateful ones. I’ll also be surprised if many BS’s have forgiven the OW or OM as the only person who I believe needs to be forgiven to make the marriage have a chance to survive after an affair is the CS. I suppose in some instances a BS may feel the need to forgive themselves for some of the things they did or didn’t do leading up to the affair, although such things would never justify the CS having an affair, but may have created an emotional environment in the marriage that fostered their CS’s attachment to another person (in my case, I wasn’t paying much attention to my wife, and cared very little for her activities outside of our family, and this made it easy for her to lap up the attention given to her by her EA partner who equally lapped up the attention my wife was willing to give to him as a sort of quid pro quo).
For me, I am very disappointed that my former friend chose to become way too close to my vulnerable, people-pleasing, and sometimes immature wife. I don’t know if I “hate” him, but I certainly don’t like him at all anymore and want nothing to do with him or any of his family, which fortunately has been possible to accomplish. I don’t trash this person when opportunities arise, but my actions, inactions and statements make it very clear that we are no longer friends. Oddly, this ex-friend and his wife were sort of brought into a couple of my and my wife’s circle of friends, and it hasn’t been difficult at all to sweep them out of these circles and back to what few friends they had before then and perhaps still have now (this makes my wife sad, and to that I say “SO SORRY!!!”). I have never felt the need as a part of my healing to “let go” of any negative feelings I have for my wife’s EA partner, but certainly had to do this with respect to my wife.
What I found essential is not letting my feelings about the AP negatively affect my life going forward. This sort of went hand in hand with not letting the fact that my wife had an EA negatively affect my life going forward, including not letting her lies and deceipt cause me to not be able to rebuild my trust in my wife to a level needed for a happy and healthy marriage. Because my wife’s EA partner eventually dropped out of sight, I suppose I had it easier in not letting any hatred I felt toward him negatively affect my healing process and forgiveness of my wife, and my life in general. I suppose also that if this person for whatever reason continued to pursue my wife, my negative feelings toward him would be intensified and it would be harder for me to not let them negatively affect me, sort of like affair triggers were for me for some time after D-day.
I have to say I agree with Mark on this. I don’t hate the OM, don’t really even know him, but if we met in a room I would have no problem beating the crap out of him. I think of him as a pathetic little person that can’t own up to what his does. I do felt sorry for his wife as she has to deal with him, but he isn’t in our life and it will stay that way. If he doesn’t then he’ll get to meet my angry side. As the saying goes, “you don’t want to make me angry.”
Hey E, Having just read the below comments and yours, let me clarify: oh hells no I didn’t forgive the OW and I never really will. And, I still have intense feelings of hatred that percolate, but, in my case, it was becoming really, really toxic. The images of her in my mind were intense, vengeance, and damaging to me. I gave her so much power. It was important for me to deflate her from a sexy maven to what she really is: a sad and depressive, unhealed grown woman who is desperate for attention and her desire to be special in the eyes of powerful men as a means of distracting herself from her lack of accomplishments, lack of a partnership, car, house, fulfilling job, child, career. She is getting old but still looks young and I believe is a broken little girl trapped in an aging, emotionally stunted, selfish, cynical, self-destructive and hating woman. The glamourous ways the performance the done up hairdo the smiling in public, the chitter chattery flirting as though she is light as air was EATING AWAY at me and I REALLY KNOW it is an act. She SUCKS.
So, I just mean that I had to deflate her. I don’t forgive her. Rather than worry about her or powerfully hate her, I have tried to focus on letting all the air out of the proud puffed up, fantastical, and false persona she devotes her life to maintaing. She is a prime A narcissist who cannot be truly intimate or close to people because they will learn who she is. And who she is is a broken women who looks good and has some talents, but ultimately who is weak, selfish, hateful, and unaccomplished. I guess rather than hate, I am trying to pity and just see her as a flawed human who sucks. Rather than compare her charms to my own, I think about how sorry I am that she is trapped and stunted in a little girl mentality. Rather than think about the pain she caused me, I smile thinking about the pain she has and will continue causing herself. Rather than think about how she had my husband’s attention and imagination, I try to think about how much he now hates that B.
And so on.
Do I succeed in this trying. Hells no. At least not always, but it helps to try to reassemble my mind to deflate her.
I can answer yes to all of the questions. Sometimes I feel like something is lacking, but can’t really put my finger on what or what brings on that feeling. I am certainly more guarded and right now at 8 months out, I can honestly think that will stay with me forever. We have always had a strong love but it most definitely more intense than ever. My H has stepped up to do anything and everything that I need him to do to make this better. Although I don’t think we really took each other for granted, you do tend to get into a lull after many years together. This was a huge wake up call, especially for my H. He is totally freaked at the thought of how badly he hurt me with the EA and the thought of losing me. Onward and upward…it has been a good week so far. We had a very good session at the MC last night 🙂
CA, thanks for sharing and it sounds as though the future is looking bright for you and your husband. It’s great that your husband “stepped up” and has helped you in your journey. Best wishes!
I have read this site for many months but this is my first response. I have had 3 D Days on this roller coaster ride. One year out with No Contact I can honestly say the love is better, stronger and I know we are now in this marriage together! I still have my triggers and my bad days and husband has his days of guilt but the communication helps us get through them together. The love has grown to a more thoughtful love and a full commitment to our partnership. I am guarded only with my triggers. Love is better and the only thing lacking are the years we lost during the A. We will never take each other for granted ever again!
hurtbythem, Thanks so much for commenting. I’m happy that you feel the love has grown and that there is no taking each other for granted anymore. Great success story. Best of luck.
I can honestly say that the love is there, I can’t say if it’s better, but I’m hoping it will be. We are six months past D-Day. H went to counseling, but refuses to go to MC. I’ve seen my own counselor, and we seem to be doing better.
I’m having a hard time with believing that it’s all over though. I’m trying not to search him out, but sometimes, less than before, but sometimes I have a hard time believing that something isn’t going on. And it’s little stuff for the most part, that set me off. He listens to me, but if I bring up anything about his EA, he gets angry. He REALLY does NOT want to talk about it.
I’m hopeful that it’s just my imagination, and my pain from the EA. I know my husband loves me, and adores our son. I just have to get myself past this.
Before the affair I can say that I definitely took my wife’s love for granted and got way to comfortable in the daily grind rut. After I now realise what I was missing out on all those years by not being there and listening. Now I fully appreciate her but she is so worn out from trying that she doesn’t have much of anything to love me back with. All we can hope for is that time and work will bring it back.
My husbands EA happened 17 months ago. The affair made me, us, stop and think about how much we really, love each other and we were going to do whatever was needed to make the marriage stronger.
We have been married for 40 years and have been through all the stages of love but I have to say now the love is stronger and deeper then ever before. We will continue to be aware of how an EA gets started so it doesn’t ever get to that point again.
I just discovered your blog today, per my husband’s suggestion. It has been a year and a half since I had an EA. I am not sure how to describe our love as a married couple. I’m stuck. I love my husband but I want to love my husband the way I USED to, before the EA, before we were married and couldn’t get enough of one another. I can’t bring that to our relationship because I don’t remember how I did that or who that person is anymore. He wants to love me deeply and I seem to be afraid and unsure. I don’t know how to respond to his love. I want this marriage to work, but how am I supposed to do that when I don’t know how to love him or myself anymore? We have both been to a marriage counselor, who we both felt very comfortable with. But due to financial reasons, we are no longer able to see him. it is hard feeling this way, with no one else to talk to. My husband has been my only support system but I need someone who can relate to ME. He doesn’t understand why I can’t love him the way he loves me. Please tell me this will get better.
Jennifer, I will tell you that it will get better however you need to take some steps in the right direction. The first thing I suggest you to do is work on loving yourself. There are some great books available, many are listed in our library. I just finished a very good one ” The gifts of Imperfection” by Brene’ Brown. It discusses shame, authenticity and belonging. Like many of the books I have read, the contents provided an awareness for me concerning my behaviors, emotions and fears. I have learned that I cannot be the kind of wife I should be until I learned to love myself first.
I also am concerned about wanting the love you used to have. I know that many of us after discovering the EA wanted the same thing. However if you know anything about the stages of love, feeling that way after you have been together for any length of time is impossible. Those feelings are purely chemical based. I will tell you it is possible to have a more deeper, meaningful kind of love. It takes commitment, patience, knowledge and communication. Good luck. Linda
Jennifer,
I commend you on your involvement and contribution to this blog. I am most curious in CS wife thoughts. I understand your desire to find the same love from early in your relationship and not knowing how to love him, but did or do you have feelings of not loving him at all? During your EA did you deny love that was really there?
I am trying to figure out my wife’s feeling of love. We were stagnant in our relationship and I knew she was unhappy about her work, our finances, etc, but the ‘didn’t love you’ stuff was a shocker. She is just starting to show some feelings for me, but they aren’t husband/wife love they are more respectful love. I would be curious to know more about your feelings of love and how/when the waned.
I hope you can find a way to continue counseling or self-study because I believe (hope) that love can return if given a real effort. Good luck.
Thanks Linda. I guess I should have been more clear about wanting the love I used to have before we were married. I had a great relationship with my husband and we dated for six years before we were married. That is what I am looking to have back in my life. It was pure and we were best friends. I remember the ” newness” of our relationship and I do understand that has to do with chemicals in our bodies. Although that was fun I’m looking for my true love and best friend again. And you are right… This all starts with loving me first. Thanks for your help.
I am continually amazed at the depth of the pain this EA has left me in. I have worked through 3 Ddays (is it a d – day if you discover one texted communiction through a 3rd party?). I have worked so hard and long on ME, physically becoming fit and strong, running my first half-marathon last week! I have been going to counselling (he won’t do MC until we both have ‘worked out our own issues’), I have meditated, faked-it-til-I-make-it, cried, talked to friends, prayed and still the pain is breathtaking. I am trying hypnotherapy next. I protect my husband from seeing the depth of my pain. dumb i know, but i guess i don’t want to look weak…..i constantly compare myself (something i’ve done all my life, yes it needs to stop, but this has amplified my sence of low self esteem to deafening proportions.) I just feel sick most of the time…and then i have a good day and then another and then I am blindsided by a bad day, week, month. I just can’t get over how effing huge this is and how smothered i feel by my pain. I do so want my marriage to work, but I’m afraid, i think whenever he is pensive, he is thinking of her….and he’s pensive alot. I guess right now, I just needed to get this out, thank you all for your support, I am sorry you are here, but grateful you are! (there’s a paradox for ya). I’m just really needed some encouragement that this pain will pass, that i can overcome this to fully engage with, trust and love my husband again.
How have things changed? Honestly is is too early to tell, but honesty was THE thing that I wanted from my wife in our marriage. When we were dating, as teenagers, she lied to me and hurt me badly on two occasions. Before we married, she promised that no matter what the circumstances or how painful the situation, she would never lie to me again.
When I broke my vows with a drunken one-night-stand, I admitted my infidelity to my wife. It hurt her, but I was able to keep that promise that I made to her. She however, carried on a long-term EA/PA and then lied for 13 years. (and now possibly 17 years, because I just found out there may be more…it may have been going on longer)
Trust? That is dead. I love my wife deeply, but I don’t trust her at all. I honestly can’t say that I ever will again. She has a piece of my heart, but I don’t know if she will ever hold it again. If I were with another woman, I doubt she would get it either.
I’m with you, Dave, I have never cheated, but did get close, once, when we’d been together about eight years, and had one toddler. I told me OH about it at the time, and we have revisited it since, and he never had any problem with what happened (or didn’t happen, but there was an opening, I just didn’t take it.) We are separated, and I will never give my heart to another person after this, as you put it, maybe they grasp a piece of it, but I can’t allow anyone else to hold it. I have done a lot of work with counselling, etc over the past three years, and tried my guts out to let myself be that vulnerable again, I don’t want bitterness in my life. I’ve taken what Brene Brown has said, and think it is so very true, and a beautiful idea, I just can’t push myself to allow myself to be so naive, and so openly vulnerable again. I did this here, no one understood that my OH and I had a wonderful thing where there was no jealousy, there was complete trust, I was told on a few occasions that you shouldn’t let your spouse be friends with people of the opposite sex. I thought that was such rubbish, we both had close friends of the opposite sex, he just forgot the boundaries with this particular “friend” – or didn’t read the definition of “just friends, lol” I’m disappointed our love didn’t allow us to move forward together, I thought love conquered all, but I didn’t realise that my unconditional love had been altered to something else. Hard to describe, but it was utter, blind, mad, passionate love (naive, maybe, not mature??? Not sure.) and I still feel very let down. Will just have to toughen up and “get over it” now that I am on my own (my call.) Sorry, meant to step away from this site, but have had a tough week, not really about the affair, just life, and no one to share the burden with any more. I still love him intensely, but had to let him go to move the mountain!
My love for my H is as strong as ever but tinged with sadness and disbelief. He is not helping me heal and continues to blame me for all our problems including his month long texting EA. D-day 5 months ago and we are separated. We see each other for our business multiple times per week and he dates me and stays over. He was very sick with a bad cold and stayed 4 days straight with me taking care of him. Next day back to “text me when u get home” and no thank you. I treat him better than he deserves. I think he takes me for granted. My brother tells me my only hope is to back off, but I am a horrible game player. He says he has nothng to work on in himself and with me, that is where the sadness comes in. He will not accept responsibility and I am so devastated that he is not the man I always believed him to be. I have given him everything I have to give and he threw it away for texts with a married mother of two (my H hates kids). He talks about how she made him feel, not about her. NC since D-day. I want to start fresh and he is undecided but still maintaining contact with me. I see him dragging this on until I make decision for him. I still cannot imagine my life without him in it, so I am stuck in this feeling of overwhelming disbelief. I am so very happy for all you BSs with a CS who has recommitted and is doing the work!
Disappointed, for us it took the loss of everything for my H to decide he was really and only in love with me. We are divorced, live separately, and are now hoping to rebuild from the ground up. I never stopped loving him, but I sure as heck didn’t like what he did, to me, to us, to our family, or to himself.
He is becoming the guy I always wanted, and I am able to be emotionally vulnerable with him, which was never safe before. I had lost all hope.
RCR, can I just say about your story … **sigh** 😉
It has made me believe in true love again, that if both involved want true love to win, it can! My H and I did not get quite to the point that you did but we came very, very close. You are so right in that sometimes the CS’s have to lose everything or finally grasp the reality that they could lose everything in order to wake up.
E, I have to add that I know beyond any doubt that the only reason H and I are where we are now is because of Divine intervention and answer to prayer (the prayer of others, not mine). As far as I was concerned, he was just someone to be avoided. I did not want to talk, see, or even think about him. I didn’t even want to drive through the town he lives in. For me to consider being in relationship with this man, let alone even entertain the possibility of loving and trusting him again is not my doing and definitely not his doing, although for the past three and a half months I have seen him work hard to show me he wants us to be healed and have a healthy, transparent partnership. So many things in this life of mine have been like this. I have seen amazing and incredibly positive changes, but almost always after I had given up all hope.
That is awesome! I also believe in prayer and Divine Intervention. I know beyond any doubt that God is at work in my marriage but more importantly in my own life.
How has our love changed? I am still not all that far out from D-Day — about 6 months. I had been in a state of low-level panic over our marriage for years. My H had lied to me before about many little things, and had stone-walled my attempts to do something about our marriage. For 5 or 6 years, I’d suggested counseling, spending more time together, turning towards each other instead of away, making our relationship and family a priority, etc. He’d shut down every attempt by either 1. blaming me for being too much of a worrywort or 2. saying there wasn’t anything wrong other than our busy schedules, and we couldn’t do anything about that. I was so frustrated and unhappy. He almost never helped out around the house or with yardwork or finances or childcare — anything. He didn’t know what was going on in my life or our kids’ lives. He was very, very disconnected. And I was about at the point of asking for a separation. Then I found out he’d been pursuing someone else for 6 months and lying to me extensively to cover it up.
I was so hurt by this, and so angry, and so sick of putting up with his bad behavior in the marriage in the years prior to this, that when he did what most CSs do — tried to put the blame on me — I absolutely blew up. Years of pent-up frustration will come out, I suppose, one way or another. I told him I’d had it with his shit. I told him that no man of integrity would behave as he did. I told him that no matter what I did or did not do as a wife — and I certainly wasn’t perfect — an honest man with courage, a man who actually had a pair, would exit the marriage straightforwardly, not cheat and lie. I told him if he really wanted her instead of me — if he really wanted a lying skanky cheat for a love partner instead of a responsible, hard-working, honest, faithful wife and the mother of his children — then he could walk out right now and good riddance. I told him that I’d had it with being unhappy, and that now that he’d shown me his true character she was welcome to him; in fact, I offered to thank her for giving me the key to my cage. And I meant it; I was not bluffing. Within literally two days of D-Day — during which I also insisted on a separation — he started begging for another chance, cut off all contact with her, made MC appointments & begged me to go, went to confession, etc., etc.
So how has our love changed? Well, he is now saying he’s in love with me and always has been deep down. He’s saying all these things I longed to hear for years and never did. He’s behaving as if he means it — he’s taking on more work around the house, trying to get involved with the kids again, doing some yardwork for once (!!), asking me about my day, being attentive to me and the kids, paying bills (!!), making date plans, bringing home flowers. But the thing is: I just don’t believe him. At least not entirely. On the one hand: why would he be staying and working and not blaming me at all if he didn’t want us to make it? On the other hand: I thought he was basically a good guy beneath everything for years, and thought he loved me deep down — and boy was I wrong.
So: here we are, but it seems like the roles are reversed. I’m uncertain about what I want or whether I can truly love him again. He’s determined to convince me he really loves me. I feel awful saying this, but I feel a bit . . . apathetic sometimes. I tried so hard for so long, and the reward I got was his EA. And in my case, it’s not just the EA, awful as that was; the marriage was painful for me before the EA and he knew it because I felt so neglected. He now admits that I felt neglected because, well, he neglected me. But I feel stuck because I just don’t know if I can love him again, or even if I should. 🙁
While less pronounced, this pattern is somewhat familiar, and while I am weary of labels, you might read about love avoid ant/love pursuant relationships as well as narcissism and co-dependency. You might find the book Love Addiction useful.
I hope it all works out for you and your H. I admire your strength here.
Wow — thanks for the suggestion, Hopeful. I had never thought about this dynamic in the way you suggest, but it does make some sense to me. He said he was drawn to his EA because the OW seemed ‘needy’ and in need of rescue (from her bad marriage — poor baby! But somehow his own wife wasn’t in ‘need’ of his basic honesty? Hmmm). He was the gallant white knight riding to her assistance. Except that in all the fairytales I’ve ever read, the white knight doesn’t cheat and lie. 🙂 So I do see my H in some of this. I am still trying to figure out what I want to do — still fence-sitting, a bit, which I worry is going to feed his desire to be the hero and save everything. But I honestly am pretty divided, so I don’t know how else I can behave.
The ‘hero complex’. My husband does try to help EVERYONE he meets. He’s Mr. Nice Guy, Mr. Savior of the world.
The problem here is, in his crusade to save everyone, he has thrown his wife under the bus more times that I’d care to count.
It never bothered me so much. I used to excuse his behavior and actually “admire” his generosity and his quest for “oneness” and goodness. But after the EA? It now leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I no longer see any of these as qualities, but rather as weaknesses. Weakness of character, lack of integrity.
Ah, Sam, this also sounds familiar. You know…I don’t know how far along you guys are in recovery but I think you’ll find that if he pulls his head outta his ass and supports you fully and consistently with appropriate boundaries that these feelings will sort themselves out. I felt this way, too and it all seemed fuzzy and gray. Eventually, it became clearer how I can love and admire his generosity while demanding and trusting his capacity to draw strong boundaries. One can be generous AND protective and in my H’s case the dangerous woman in need always fit the same profile. Almost to a T. Dude, avoid THAT ONE AND ONES LIKE HER and we’ll probably be ok, or more so.
Anyway, too simple a break down on my part, but… clarity comes slowly sometimes.
Your instincts seem spot on though.
Hi Hopeful,
We’re exactly 10 months and 2 days post Dday… and it has been rough. Physically, I’m doing much better: I finally stopped losing weight and have a little more energy. My house doesn’t look like a disaster zone and I can actually get a full night of sleep at least 3-4 times a week. (I’ve always been a bit of an imsomniac, but things got worse after the EA.) I’m no longer checking his e-mail every 5 minutes, and I don’t steal his phone at night to go through his call log.
It took a while for my H to come around. The first 2-3 months he was in complete denial and kept saying I was overreacting. He kept justifying his EA and calling it “an innocent friendship.” He’d tell me that he was NOT sorry at all about it, and that he was glad he had met her and that it was my insane jealousy that had made him hide things from me. Ugh.
These days, he actually says that it was a horrible thing and that he wishes he could take it all back. I have seen some amazing changes in his overall behavior. I have found no evidence of any further contact with AP, except for a single e-mail she sent in October – and he didn’t hide it. He told me about it right away! I think the fact that he has been “clean” for all these months has helped me to ease up on the spying.
He has finally agreed with me that female “intimate/close friendships” are not okay and that there’s no reason for him to have any ongoing e-mail exchanges with ANYONE of the opposite sex. So, overall, he has been making ammends and I do feel terrible for not being completly “healed” by now.
On good days, I feel very positive that our relationship is better than ever – or at least, better than it was in a long time. Lots of things have come to the surface as a result of his EA and I have come to the realization that maybe things weren’t as “perfect” as I had thought they were. I can see how we were both slacking in our marriage.
On bad days, (and there are more bad than good days, unfortunately) I’m still very hurt and angry. But I’m happy to report I’m leaning more towards “happily married or divorced” and it’s no longer my goal to become a widow! (Ok, that was a bad joke.)
If you had asked me to describe my husband before his EA, I’d have said: generous and incorruptible. If you ask me now? I say disloyal and hypocritical. But I hope that someday I will be able to describe my husband in a more positive light again without flinching.
I do love him, very, very much.
Jeez, Sam, sounds VERY familiar now, even done to the time that has past. We, too, as it sounds for you had mighty battles over his insistence that it was normal to have protected, autonomous close female friends. Oh the battles. Thank God that is over.
Anyway, I know that it takes time and I, too, feel guilty that I am not completely healed. I’ve done everything and still struggling sometimes. More good than bad FINALLY but that is recent.
Hang in there.
I’ve always loved my wife and I’ve always done things to show her. But the way I show her now has changed some and I think I hold back some of my feelings for her. I don’t want to put all my feelings and trust up front like I did before I found out about all the lying and cheating that has gone on for a long time.
I tried to put her first in almost everything and it was putting her first and not challenging what she wanted to do for herself that led to where she didn’t see any problem with what she was doing and became involved with the affairs.
I’ve always done things to show her how much I cared for her but I think she took most of them for granted and I don’t feel like doing them so much anymore. Some days, I’m unsure whether I want to love her more or to be more angry with her. I do think about myself but most of the time I catch myself worrying about how she feels and what she thinks and what I should to help her.
I know I’ve changed and my love for her is more guarded and different somehow but it is difficult for me to understand just how or to know what I should be feeling or doing.
How has our love changed? Well, let’s see. He has ‘realized’ he loves me and the years of being somewhat indifferent are gone. He’s willing to do anything I want to do, and he does many little things to make me happy. He tells me his favorite thing to do is to make me happy. That’s how it’s changed for him.
For me? Before the EA, I thought I was so lucky to have such a great guy. Sure, he had his quirks and was never willing to do anything family related (Christmas parties, etc.), but I chalked that up to something he didn’t like, and in the grand scheme of life who cared. He was all I’d ever wanted and I was, after 14 years, still madly in love with him.
Now? Now he’s the guy that will lie to me and say terrible things behind my back because HE wants attention. He’s the person that will throw me under the bus for no reason at all. He’s the person that cannot be trusted because he’s proven himself a liar.
I’ve read all the comments here. Some I think are honest, and some I think are covering up pain and anger deeper than the writer is willing to admit. I’m not judging anyone on this site. We are all here for a terrible reason, and we all need to deal with it in the way that suits the individual, not the way that pleases the group. I feel that we on this site, the BS group, understand each other in ways that cannot be put into words, and in ways that our WSs will never understand. Even if we, the BS group, were to go out and cheat on our spouses, they wouldn’t feel it, because they would chalk it up to revenge or some other reason derived from their affair. They wouldn’t feel the shame of being discarded for the affections of another. They wouldn’t feel the hurt that the person they love, for no reason, didn’t love them enough to think, even for a moment, about them. They wouldn’t understand the confusion and pain that swirls because, again, they would think that if they hadn’t cheated first, the BS wouldn’t have cheated. So they can place blame on their affair. They did do something terrible, so they can understand being betrayed. We didn’t. We did nothing to deserve being forgotten, and yet we were. Yes, a WS will never understand what all of us BSs understand, and we will never be able to convey it appropriately.
I did read here where one poster is thrilled with their marriage now. If that is true, that’s wonderful. However, the same poster despises the OW. There is a rage there that won’t go away. That I find concerning. The OW is not the one that betrayed any of us. They were an accomplice. The true betrayal was by our spouses. They promised us the moon, and then stabbed us in the back. They are the liars. They are the selfish. They deserve the animosity that we all feel because of the EA. Pushing all of the rage on the OP isn’t, imo, healthy because carrying that rage isn’t physically healthy and I’ve been told by a few counselors that harboring all the hatred for the OP is most likely masking the rage towards the WS, but fear of further disturbing the household and relationship keeps the rage pointed at another. If that’s the case, the rage never leaves because it’s being misdirected subconciously. The rage isn’t at what the person did, it’s at what the person represents – the very real possibility of losing one’s spouse. The reality that their spouse is capable of such betrayal. The reality that this person took their spouse from them, at least mentally, and could probably do it again. Harboring hatred is bad, no matter what the circumstance.
So, in summary, my H is, in part, scum. He’s a liar and he’s apparently fine with that. He is disloyal and selfish. He cares far more about the moment he’s in than in other people. He’s needy and can be very cruel. I don’t say these things out of anger. I say them because they are true. This is what he has proven by having the EA. Sure, he decided he didn’t want it and it had been over for several months before I found out, but the fact that he did such things at all show me, and the world, that he will betray anyone if it benefits him even a little bit. That’s the man I married. That’s the person we all married. Do I love him? Yes, I do. The parts of him that are good are great and I enjoy being around him, more now than before because of the changes he’s made. Do I resent him for blasting my world to hell because he felt like it? You bet I do. Have I learned that he’s got some serious issues? Yes, I have.
Have I learned that I can’t trust my own spouse or how he truly feels about me, because he’s shown he’ll lie to me and continue telling me he loves me when he’s tearing me apart to another? Yes. That will never go away, because no matter what other changes he makes, he is capable of disgusting deceit. That’s not me being angry or hurt. That is a fact. That is who he is.
Wow. You couldn’t have explained myself better. I feel every bit of anger, sadness, disappointment and bitterness.
Our stories are SO similiar. We just celebrated our 15th anniversary last month. Just like you, I thought my husband was just “not very social” or “a very quiet guy” when he chose not to participate or to withdraw from social/family activities. Now I know that he’s NOT really quiet, because during his EA he was a little chatterbox. He wrote pages, and pages of e-mails to that woman. I knew we weren’t perfect – but who is? There were problems here and there, but overall, I thought we had a good marriage. For the past 15 years, I got flowers and gifts, and cards telling me how much he loved me. “Thanks for 11 wonderful years, will you spend 11 more with me?”
Why would someone who was so “miserable and lonely” (in his own words, right after I discovered his EA) be asking for 11 or 12 or 13 more years of torture?! I feel like our entire relationship was a lie.
Do I love him? Of course I do. But I have discovered that the person I thought I married and the person he really is are completely different. I thought he was generous, kind, incorruptible and loyal. Now I know he’s deceitful, selfish, disloyal and a liar. There are days when I wish I could just end the marriage and run away. If I didn’t have two wonderful kids that would be devastated, I’d be gone.
To be fair, since D-day, he has made INCREDIBLE changes. He’s kinder, more considerate, he is REALLY trying to win me back and to be the person I once thought he was. I feel bad for him sometimes, because he’s bending backwards to make this work, but not matter what he does, he will never be able to repay the pain he has caused.
He says he loves me now “more than ever” that he’s a man “deeply in love” and that he’s so sorry, that he wishes he could back in time and erased everything. But he can’t. I know that when he says things like that I should feel better. Instead, I feel more bitter, because to me it translates as “I didn’t love you enough before, but I do now. I was not really in love with you, but I am now.”
He thinks this is reason to celebrate; the re-awakening of our relationship. I can totally see what he’s saying and I wish I could give him another chance. Give US another chance to create something better, stronger. But I just don’t know if I can do it. I’m worried that I might never be able to let go and forgive, and that someday I will look back and wish I had left. I’m also afraid that if I leave, I will look back someday and regret my choice. Regret not being more tender-hearted and forgiving.
What a difficult situation. 10 months since D-day and though there are days when I feel better, there has not been a truly “happy” day for me since this whole thing came to light. I feel as if I’m not really living my life, but rather watching a movie of my life. I go through the motions, but I don’t actually FEEL anything (other than pain) the way I used to. I feel numb.
I have SO much to be grateful for, and I know it – yet I cannot truly feel it.
How has our love changed? Apparently for him, it’s stronger, better than ever. For me? It’s tainted and bitter and guarded and suspicious.
Blah. Maybe I’m just having a bad day.
P.S. Like many here, my hated for the OW is a poison that I drink every morning before breakfast. I wish I could get hit really hard over the head and get amnesia. I don’t want to even remember her name.
Sam,
Isn’t forgiveness better than swallowing the poison your
expecting to hurt them, but actually it hurts you instead.
God asks us to forgive others so we don’t live in bitterness,
instead forgiveness, makes us better.
So do yourself a favor and forgive.
Sam,
I do understand what your feeling, and my ex and I did divorce. However, I do not regret being divorced.
I forgave him and his affair partner a long time ago.
Forgiving doesn’t mean you need to stay in a relationship,
but it means letting go of the past and moving forward.
Sam, its up to you to decide, to stay or leave, if you stay you
need to forgive, if you leave you need to forgive.
So what it boils down to is can you put his affair in the past
and leave it there, or do you want out. Its a tough choice
to make, but your the only one that can make that choice,
because you have to live with the choice you make.
For me I do not regret my divorce, it put a end to a unhealthy
relationship that caused me so much pain. Now I am free
from that pain and that kind of marriage. But what was best
for me, maybe what’s not best for you. Only you can decide
that for yourself. My best to you.
Thanks for your reply, Anita. You’re right. No one can help us decide what is right for us and a decision of that magnitude cannot be taken lightly. I’m scared that if I stay I might be making a mistake; I’m scared that if I leave, I might also be making a mistake. If I stay, at least, my children can be spared from the pain of a broken marriage.
You see, my parents got divorced and I never want to put my kids through such an awful ordeal. (It was bad for me.)
My husband and I are not fighting in front of the kids and we still do things as a family, so even though I feel somewhat “miserable” at the moment, at least my kids aren’t being affected.
I don’t want to play martyr either and know that my kids will grow up and leave and that I have to think about ME. There are days when I know that I want to stay. And then there are days (like today) when I want to leave.
I guess I just have to see what happens…
Sam,
If your husband is willing to do the work of repairing your
marriage and and it shows through his actions, I would
give him another chance. However if he cheats again,
then I wouldn’t stay in that kind of relationship.
Time will heal your wounds and I wish the best for you.
Sam my exhusband last affair was not his first, so I told
him to straighten up or get out, he wanted to divorce so
we did. My feelings for him changed during his last affair
and I was never able to recover them. I forgave him and
his affair partner, and started a new life for myself. My
ex remarried another woman that he met later on, and
as far as I know their happy. We get along fine.
So even though things were horrible at that time, we
both have gone foward and left the past behind. I am
currently waiting for my annulment to be granted.
Again my best to you.
Livingonafence,
Forgiving your husband will make you feel better.
Unforgiveness is like swallowing poision expecting it to
hurt the other person, when actually it hurts you instead.
Those who anger you also control you. If your tired of
carrying the baggage of your husband’s affair, then let
it go, and forgive, so you can start to enjoy your life again.
The past is over and no matter how many times you go
back to revisit it, it’s not going to change, so leave it
behind and press on into to the future.
God gave you a life to enjoy, and he asks us to forgive
others, so you can enjoy life and not bitterness.
However the choice is yours you can remain bitter or
you can forgive and get better.
I feel so much more cautious. Previously I trusted my husband completely, all thie lies have killed any trust I had and also makes me question many things I had believed were true all these years. I have been married for 20years and with my husband for 28 years. I knew my husband had a previous relationship which lasted 3 years when he was a teenager. This girl left him, he never really mentioned her or discussed their relationship although there were hints over the years that he was still thinking of her that I think I didn’t want to admit. 2 years ago they connected again through FB. He has had contact with her on and off since then and lied to me so many times since. I read some of the messages about songs that remind them of each other, all the what if’s and how they have always wondered and wished things had been different and all the feelings they have for each other. They also agreed that unfortunately as they are married now isn’t the right time. So where does this leave my relationship, it leaves me feeling like a consolation prize, that my husband has always had feelings for someone else. He says he is sorry and has cut contact with her and says he loves me and wants to be with me but…. This lack of trust I now live with and i have so many doubts. I don’t know if I can forget all the broken promises. I feel my love and relationship will always be tainted.
Hurtwife,
You stated “they also agreed that unfortunately as they are
married now isn’t the right time.”
What does he mean by this isn’t the right time?
I suggest you both go to marriage counseling and find
out exactly whats on his mind. That statement needs to
be addressed, so you know what your dealing with.
Also what does he mean when he stated unfortunately he’s married???
If thats how he feels, then I’d be concerned also.
My best to you.
Ok Hurtwife, This is my same story. Been married for 24 years dated for 5. I knew my husband had a girlfriend before me, that lasted about 1 year. They worked together. Nov. 2011 he dropped the bomb in front of our 15 year old that hes been seeing his ex girlfriend from 30 years ago when he was 20. He is in love with her. Leaving us to be with her. She brings out the best in him, the are SOULMATES!!! She said that she shouldn’t have given him up 30 years ago and he agreed with her. Ya, so much for me and our 2 boys!!!
Well, I love this man yes he lied to me, betrayed me, broke my heart. He swears that he did not have sex with her. He also told our sons that he didn’t so we have to believe him to move on and heal. So I agreed to do that move on. Well now he doesn’t know what he wants to do. He’s unsure of his feelings to me because I was filled with anger and rage because of what he has done. Now it’s not about that thing he hooked up with for 4 lunches.
At least your husband is willing to give your marriage a try. It’s hard I know. But hopefully you will be able to move past that and have a stronger marriage. Good luck.
Livingonafence and Sam,
That’s exactly how I feel, my H now will plan and take vacations with us, he helps out with the kids, helps with drop off/pick up helps out with their sports. He tells me all the time how much he loves me and that he’s never going to leave me.
To him the fact that I have forgiven him for the EA has given him even more reason to love me… More.
For me I do love him but I don’t trust him and that is it. Just this morning I asked him how do you have a marriage with no trust? It’s almost 2 years since D. Day. I don’t have the obsession anymore of checking phone logs emails etc because basically if he’s going to communicate with her he will. And he knows if he does WE are done. Somedays I think can I make it until the youngest is 18? somedays I think we will make it through this we will be one of the success stories, and then on the news another cheating scandal another wronged wife, and the discussion starts when you were with her wern’t you worried something would happen to you and I would find out you were with her? No he never thought about that, he never thought about me…. So how do I give my trust back to someone who had it and then trampled it to pieces?
The one thing that makes me mad is him or any CS making excuses for their behavior. There are no excuses just the truth as someone here said this is who you are and what you did.
Somedays like today I feel a little (not too much) bad that he has to be reminded of his EA, and then again for me it will never go away.
Surviving & Sam, YES!!! It sickens me when he says how much he loves me and now he appreciates what he has. He has this light in his eyes like he’s discovered the fountain of youth and he wants everyone to be as happy as him that he’s got the greatest wife ever!!! Really, where was this guy when I was alone while he was talking to her? Where was he when I thought he was just outside tinkering with something, and really he was telling her how unhappy he was and that I was all kinds of terrible things? I was always here, always in love, ALWAYS LOYAL!!! You don’t get a prize for being disloyal and then becoming loyal again, because you cannot become loyal again. Loyalty is a one-shot deal. He blew it, and he blew having a wife that adored him. Now he has a wife that doesn’t feel like having to do everything for herself so she hasn’t kicked him out, yet. I’m sure soon enough that day will come.
Surviving, your line that you love him but don’t trust him at all is perfect. I don’t know how to ever trust him again, after all the lies, the sneaking around behind my back, and of course, how do I ever trust he means it when he says he cares. Is that just this time? Or maybe it’ll be true next time? I guess I just have to blindly trust someone that a proven liar? Sorry, can’t do that. It’s not that I don’t want it to work. It’s just that I can’t trust someone that hurt me like that, intentionally and over and over and over. It just isn’t possible.
Anita, yes, forgiving him would make me feel better, and I have forgiven him. I know why he did it – he’s insecure and an attention junkie. He liked talking with his ex and feeling like a 20 year old again. Who wouldn’t? But for most, it’s an innocent walk down memory lane. For him? A full blown love affair between two miserable people that wanted a little excitement and to feel desirable. Great, glad they found it. But to forget I exist to get it?
I know some people can not only forgive but truly move past it. I really don’t know how to do that. How do I know that when I’m in the shower he isn’t online with her? How do I know that when he says he wants to be with me he means it? I’m just not that trusting and he’s proven he doesn’t deserve my trust, so he doesn’t have it. That isn’t me not forgiving him. That’s me knowing what I’m dealing with and behaving accordingly.
And no one, ever, should feel bad that their WS is reminded of the EA. Not until they can honestly say they’ve forgotten completely about it until someone else brings it up. Besides, we all know that if the two of them talked about a certain music artist they both liked, every time that artist comes on they both think of each other. Do you think they’re ever going to tell you that? No, but that fond memory that the two of them had the same taste, probably further truth that they were meant for each other, is there. Maybe they no longer believe they are soulmates, but make no mistake, they both very much enjoyed the EA and I don’t care what they say, certain parts they remember like a giddy teenager remembering what their girlfriend/boyfriend said just before they hung up the phone.
Sorry, but we all know this is true. They enjoyed the EA and they still enjoy some of the memories. They most likely only stopped because they were caught, and then saw the devastation they were causing. They did the right thing and stopped the EA, but that does NOT mean they now hate everything about it. They don’t, so forever we the BS will be innocently sitting with our spouse while they ‘trigger’ in a good way. We will forever be the victim of the EA, the foolish spouse out in the cold while the OP occupies our spouses mind.
No, I’ll never not think about it. So he can think about it too. He can think about how he had what he wants now and blew it. He can think that he has no trust from the person he loves. He can think that yes, he IS the kind of person that cheats and lies. And he can know that I know.
Honestly, I don’t know why he stays. He knows I know what he is. I don’t think I’d stay with someone that knows what a monster I can be and has a very low opinion of me for it. I think they stay because they are once again playing us for the fool and think we don’t think its THAT bad. It is, they are, and we know.
Livingonafence. In my opinion, what’s almost as bad as having an affair while married, is continuing to stay married with someone when you feel the way you do about your husband. The words in your posts very vehemently describe a person that is quite unhappy and who is deceiving herself if she thinks that she has forgiven her husband. Again, in my opinion, if you have truly forgiven your husband for his EA, you would not be having the feelings you describe and would not be asking the questions and making the statements that are found in your posts.
So stop being a monster and do the right thing. End your marriage and give your husband a chance to find a woman that will love him and not hold past actions of his against him. When not faced with having to live with this person that has so hurt you that you can no longer state unequivocally that you want to be married to for the rest of your life, perhaps you can find someone that you can love, respect and trust and forge a relationship in which you feel safe and happy.
And if you can’t, for whatever reason, find the courage to end your marriage, at least share your posts with your husband (I think it important that he not only know that you feel the way you describe in your posts, but are so hurt and angry and whatever that you feel the need to post as you do) and otherwise do what you can to make him fully understand what he is now married to and what he likely will remain married to if your marriage is not ended. At least then, if he decides to stay and later regrets that decision, he can at least know that he did so not under false pretenses. I know that if I felt about my wife the way you apparently do about your husband based on your posts, I would end our marriage. And my wife’s greatest fear after the discovery of her EA was that I would feel that way, and she made it very clear that she could not remain married to someone who felt that way about her. Really, life is too short for you to stay in a relationship with someone who by their very existence causes you so much pain and anger. That said, I will pray that you somehow find your way to genuine forgiveness so that you can stop feeling the way that you do and actually enjoy a life with your husband. But there is nothing wrong with not being able to forgive (if my wife had had a PA, I feel as though I would be exactly where you are right now, except that because of that I would be ending my marriage for the good of all concerned), but it is wrong, in my opinion, to remain married to someone that has had an affair that cannot be forgiven.
Healing Mark…we can’t ALL forgive a fast as you apparently have, but to tell her she should leave her H…the one who is responsible for her extreme pain is just plain WRONG!! And HOW DARE YOU call her a MONSTER??
Excuse me, but you have NO right to say that to anyone! And then to tell her you will PRAY for her? Please!
Her H should “have a chance” to find someone that will forgive him and make him happy? Well, HELLO, he HAD a wife who trusted him and wanted him to be happy…but he GUTTED her by his lies and betrayal!
Livingonafence WILL forgive her H in HER own time…and no one can tell her when that will be!! I am 15 months post Dday and I haven’t forgiven my H 100%…I want to and he knows I do, but I will do that in MY time, not his, and putting pressure on me OR anyone is just plain wrong!
It’s obvious you’re a man…men tend to put things in a box and take it out and look at it, then put it away…never to deal with it again….women don’t work that way, HM,…haven’t you figured that out after the many, many months you’ve posted on this blog?
Maybe that’s why more men tend to end up in affairs than women…they believe they can have their EA and their family also!! Two separate lives!
My H is doing a lot more to help me heal now than he ever has…yet the pain of his EA and the lies he told about me AND to me are still VERY painful and only time will take care of that!
Livingonafence…I hear and understand where you are coming from…please don’t let what HM said bring you down…he’s wrong in his attitude and owes you an apology… ((HUGS)) to you!!
You do what YOU need to do to help you heal…there is really some great advice here on this blog…but you do have to discern what you read, whether it will help you or not!
Yeah. I felt pretty stongly that my post would be controversial. But rare are issues in life that do not provoke differences of opinion regarding the same, and on this site those differences can be eye opening one way or another.
Livingonafence was the one, if you look at her post being responded to, that identified herself as sometimes acting like a monster (her husband “knows what a monster I can be”). I did not call her a monster. I said “stop being a monster” and lord knows I said this enough to myself when the pain and anger and other negative feelings created by the discovery of my wife’s EA overcame me and I behaved like a monster rather than a respectful and loving spouse and partner. Again, my opinion, but I think that it’s too easy of an excuse and one too often used by BS’s (yes, I did this too many times and at a certain point doing this was going to irreparably damage my marriage) that the pain and anger and other negative feelings created by the affair discovery justify acting in ways that would alienate just about anyone forced to put up with such acts/statements/behaviours.
I apologize to Livingonafence if I came across as pushing her toward forgiving her husband at any point in time prior to her being good and ready to forgive. I thought I actually was doing the opposite in a certain respect. And even if it was my opinion that it was taking her too long to forgive her husband, which it is not (instead, my OPINION is that only she and her husband can determine what “too long” is), there is nobody other than this site’s moderator who can keep me from expressing my opinion. It’s just my opinion, and there is rarely a “wrong” opnion (ok, if it was my opinion that the Obama or Bush administrations caused the sinking of the Titanic, it would be fair, in my opinion, for you to say that I am “wrong”). And for all who have read, or do read, any of my previous postings, I have not ever intended for BS’s to feel like there is some sort of magic timeline that must be followed in order to reach forgiveness. Instead, my experience, which is about all I can speak to here, is that neither I nor my wife were very happy until I was able to truly forgive her (the 8 or 10 false starts before that were just that, false starts on a new relationship as unencumbered by the past EA as possible), and for those BS’s and CS’s who truly want to remain happily married, they should do everything they possibly can to reach that point. I challenge any BS visiting this site to post that they are as happily married following an affair as they want to be notwithstanding the fact that they have not yet been able to truly forgive their CS.
Other than as noted above, I disagree that I owe Livingonafence an apology, just as I don’t think that you, ifeelsodumb, owe me an apology for anything that you have posted above, even the inaccuracies. It is quite apparent that Livingonafence is a big enough person to understand that what I have posted are only my opinions, to be taken as lightly or strongly as she wishes. I don’t really care whether she remains married or not, but for some strange reason it bothers me to see someone who feels as badly as she has described in her posts. There usually are things in a relationship that, for whatever reason, one partner or the other or both can identify them as “deal-breakers” (i.e., things that if they have occurred, or do occur, where no forgivness is possible and the relationship should or must be ended). At the time my wife and I renewed counseling after discovery of her EA, I couldn’t say whether her prior EA was a “deal-breaker” or not, but could say that the next one, if any, would be. Part of our recovery process was attempting to determine whether the prior EA was something that I could not forgive, which we all agreed would make it a “deal-breaker”. And we also all agreed (me, my wife and our counselor) that, notwithstanding all the horrible things that a divorce entails, it would be better for my wife and me and our children to end our marriage rather than try to remain married despite my inability, for whatever reason, to genuinely forgive my wife.
It would be silly of me to not agree that posts on this site do show that men and women react differently to many things. But it’s not just men who have cheated who want to put their affair in a box and never look at it again. This is exactly what my wife wanted to do, and it seems to me that there are other wife CS’s who have either posted here themselves, or had their husband’s post, that they, too, wanted their affairs to “go away” and no longer be discussed. It’s human nature, again, in my opinion so that there is no misunderstanding, to want something like an affair to be erased and forgotten forever, not a gender thing. Also, if statistics in this regard are to be believed, it appears that more men, percentage wise, have affairs than women, but the gap is not all that great and appears to be closing. My wife did not have to be a “man” in order to want at a point in time to have 2 separate lives, our marriage and her forbidden and thus exciting EA.
Finally, I see a lot of people on this site who express little doubt that they want to be able to forgive their CS, but are just frustrated or something else by the fact that they have not been able to do so. People who ask, more or less, “How do I do this?”. People who express fears that they may never be able to forgive their CS (trust me, I had these and hated the feelings that they caused). For these people, I believe that they have not yet come to the point where they can say definitively that the affair their spouse had was, apparently, a deal-breaker and that the time has come for the marriage to be ended. There are other people on this site, however, that by the statements and feeling expressed in their posts, appear to have reached the point where they should acknowledge that thier spouse’s affair was a “deal-breaker” and that they are never going to be able to forgive their spouse for the betrayl. Again, there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, for coming to this conclusion. But I do think its “wrong” to come to this conclusion and then stay married for whatever reason (financial comfort, children?), all the while acting at times like a “monster” and otherwise not being able to treat thier spouse like such spouse, affair notwithstanding, deserves to be treated (for example, staying married notwithstanding the fact that they will never trust their spouse like they would have if they had been able to forgive them following the affair, or staying married notwithstanding the fact that they will never love their spouse again in a way that makes the unforgiving BS happy and content in thier mariage). And I think that it is really “wrong” to have such negative feelings toward a spouse as Livingonafence has described and to not communicate them to thier spouse (Livingonafence, I am not saying that you have not communicated these feelings to your spouse – how would I know? – just that it’s my opinion that your spouse deserves to know these things). Whew! Sorry for the long post. And for others who ever disagree with my or any others’ opinions, by all means post/blast away. I venture to say that most people who are willing to post thier opinions on this site understand that not everybody is going to agree with them, nor do they expect or even want everybody to agree with them. Just ask Doug and Linda! 🙂
I have to agree with HealingMark here, maybe it came off harsh but I think I understand the intention. I think we all agree that every one of our situations are different. We are different people. For me and my H – I forgave right away. That was never a problem for me. In fact I told him a few months ago that i would forgive him again – although our marriage would be over at that point. Getting over the hurt and the pain and not completely trusting my H anymore – – that has taken much longer for me and that could have been my deal breaker. Forgiveness is such a personal thing. I think that we all have to do it according to what is right for us. Thankfully I am recovering. And with every step forward I take, I see my H taking another step forward also. He tells me all the time “I just want you to get better”. He is one of those guys who just wants me to be happy and secure. And if I am happy and secure then he feels like he is doing his job. I do agree that if you cannot forgive, and you cannot move on from the pain and anger and you have given it time and given a true commitment to making things work then maybe you really don’t want to make things work. We have some close friends that are much further out from Dday than we are and they are not as far along as we are. Please don’t take that wrong … That is not meant as patting myself on the back. I am simply saying that it is so very different for all of us. But my H and I have both told these friends that he cannot continue to beat her up emotionally about this and expect healing to take place. Venting here is great … But I know that my CS could not begin his recovery if I could not have begun my own. Fair? Maybe not- but I am beginning to feel like I am getting my life back and for me, it has been worth it.
E. I like your multiple step approach. And we are a perfect example of how different people approach/handle the process of potentially healing from an affair differently. And your statement about the H who is hopefully working on ceasing to beat up his CS emotionally about her affair also shows how different people can also struggle with the same difficulties during this process as I, too, had to get past holding my wife’s EA against her and calling her a cheater whenever a conflict between us would arise or a trigger would intensify my feelings of pain, anger and betrayl.
Really based on what my wife felt my forgiveness should entail in order for her to be able to remain happily married to me (again, no forgiveness was a “deal-breaker” for her so I had no problem with her dictating in this regard what we needed to achieve in this regard), we defined “forgiveness” differently than you and perhaps others. Before describing this, I had to first decide, and convince my wife that I had truly made such a decision, whether the fact that I had to accept the fact that her EA occurred and that this could not be changed was going to be a “deal-breaker” for me (clearly it was not), and I also had to truly believe that my wife meant it when she said that she was truly sorry for her EA and its negative consequences (ok, she was not sorry about everything, but we got past this).
My wife and I agreed that genuine forgiveness would be reached once the following were all true: (1) I no longer needed to know any further details about the affair or reason(s) for it developing and being secretly maintained; (2) I was no longer using it against her for whatever reason or otherwise beating her up about having had an EA; (3) I was no longer obsessing about where she was or who she was talking, emailing or texting to (admittedly a component to regaining trust in my wife); (4) affair “triggers” were no longer causing me to change the way I was feeling at that time (early on after D-day, I could be in a great mood and having a great time with my wife talking or listening to music or watching a movie and if the AP’s name came up, I would totally change and everything would be ruined for the remainder of the day/evening); and (5) my level of trust in my wife would have returned to the level that existed throughout our marriage until the point in time that I began to suspect that she was having an affair and certainly after D-day. I thought that #5 was going to take the longest, but for me #’s 3 and 4 took longer and were the hardest.
Finally, my wife also could not begin her “recovery” if I could not begin mine, and she really could not make significant strides until I had, and she felt that I had, genuinely forgiven her for the EA. This never bothered me but I understand how this might bother other BS’s.
I have to agree too. I didn’t even read the entire post he was responding to as it just had too much venom and hatred and spite in it. OK, so your husband did something you can’t forgive. Why stick around and make yourself miserable if you can’t forgive. Mark says do it for him. I say do it for yourself.
Healing Mark,
I am a former betrayed spouse, my ex and I divorced a few
years ago and I am waiting for my annulment to be granted.
I can only speak for myself.
When my exhusband had his last affair, it wasn’t his first, so I faced with a choice do I divorce him now, or make the best of it. Like so many others at first I chose to make the best of it, but I did it for all the wrong reasons. Fear of the unknown was the main reason I stayed. However over time my feelings for him began to change, I no longer trusted or respected him as a husband, my exhusband knew this also. Then came a point where I told him to straighten up or get out, he chose divorce.
At that point in time I was fully loaded with unforgiveness, and I was a volcano flowing with red hot anger.
So when my ex came with divorce papers, I told him to bring them on.
Healing Mark, I know that if I had forgiven him right away and put it in the past we may have not divorced at that point in time, however I chose to leave, because my trust was gone and his past track record was an “F-”
So I didn’t play the loving wife, in fact in one argument I told him to pack his things and move in with her, she could put up with him. So its no wonder were divorced, I can look back as smile and laugh about this now, however at the time it was anything but funny. However I am living proof that time and forgiveness does heal wounds. My ex husband and I get along fine now, and he’s remarried to someone who he met later after his affair ended.
Long story, however for myself I couldn’t stay in my marriage, because I knew my trust was gone.
I said, you intrusive uncaring ‘monster’, that if I were HIM, I wouldn’t stay with someone that knows what a monster I can be, meaning HE CAN BE A MONSTER AND I KNOW THAT.
How DARE you come on here and say the things you said to me? Just because you chose to tuck your tail between your legs and immediately forgive your wife does NOT mean everyone else has to. Your post wasn’t ‘controversial’, it was thoughtless, and stupid.
I have EVERY right to feel the way I feel. You have NO right to tell me I’m wrong to feel this way.
The next time you want to post something so stupid and cruel, don’t. The fact that you think I should be more concerned for my husband finding someone else that cares about him than about ME healing tells me you’re either completely whipped by your wife which is why her cheating earned immediate forgiveness or you’re the one that cheated and you still see nothing wrong with what you did. Either way, nothing you say is of any value to me, so don’t bother responding. ;
Livingonafence, I understand the anger you feel toward’s your husband, and it is completely warranted. I believe that going through this stage and getting past it is a part of what it takes to heal regardless of whether or not you stay in the relationship. If you stay in that stage and cannot move on from it … that is when you could hit a wall. There are so many steps it’s unbelievable and it can certainly be overwhelming!! I literally move from one issue to another and thankfully I feel as though I am making progress with each one. Yes, now I am dealing with the issue of the OW. You are absolutely right about me – I need to get over my anger towards her, most definitely! I am still a work in progress that’s for sure! BTW, “thrilled” with my marriage is a bit strong of a word that I would not have chosen. “Hopeful” … is a better word. I did not have that hope for well over 2 years, so it is a good feeling for me. So take care of yourself and keep moving forward! I wish you the best!
E, first, thanks. The anger isn’t a constant, but it’s there. Second, you don’t need to ‘get over’ the OW. That oversimplifies it so much. In fact, YOU don’t need to do anything except what works for you. I only spoke of what several counselors told me – hidden anger is unhealthy both physically and mentally. In my case, for a period I was so overcome with rage toward the OW I couldn’t even think about what my H had done, let alone accept it as reality. All day, every day I was consumed with thoughts of her. I’d look at her FB, her pictures, everything. I kept myself believing it only SHE didn’t exist I wouldn’t be here in this hell!! I finally realized SHE didn’t do anything to me. She didn’t know me, and she didn’t owe me anything at all. My H, on the other had, owed me honesty, love and respect. He owed me the decency of leaving if he had found another instead of deceiving me for months and saying nasty things behind my back. He owed me the courtesy of not being cruel behind my back. He lied, he broke promises, he broke my heart. She did nothing, and she meant nothing. She was just a toy to him, someone to pay attention to him. So you see, if it weren’t for HER, another HER would have been there. The problem was him. Once I realized and accepted that, I could start looking honestly at my M and if I wanted to save it. You’ve seen from my posts where I am in that process 🙂
For me anyway, hating her was a diversion from the other issues at hand. I was very good at hiding from truths I wasn’t ready to accept. Focusing on her allowed me to hide from the truth that my H had cheated.
Please do your healing on your time in your way. Being force fed a healing strategy most likely will leave you angry with two people – your H because you’re still angry about the EA, and the person that told you to do A, B and C to get over the EA. Healing is a personal journey. You don’t need to do it alone, but you need to do it your way.
I hope you are having a happy day today. If you’re not, try to find one thing to make you smile. It helps.
Healing Mark: you said ‘ (if my wife had had a PA, I feel as though I would be exactly where you are right now, except that because of that I would be ending my marriage for the good of all concerned)
Do you think your wife would actually tell you the truth that she did have sex with her AP knowing how you would feel about her and that you would just leave!? She knows she can never be fully truthful to you because of this. It doesn’t matter whether there was sex really, In her mind she had sex with him, so in fact she had sex with him. It’s whether WS/CS feels the devastation and true cruelty the affair fantasy had on thier spouse, whether it was physically consumated or in thier mind. It matters that they (CS) are asking themselves ‘Who was that selfish shallow creepy person who snuck around and lied- I don’t like what I did and I NEVER want to act or be that person again’ I want to be authentic.
Livingonafence is venting that she is stuck on the trust issue. I think she wants to keep her family together but she doesn’t know HOW TO TRUST someone who HAS LIED. ME TOO!!!! I ‘think’ she said she forgave him but what I ‘think’ she meant is she is faking it like I AM! We’re hurt, smart, deep and scared. We wonder if WS/CS is narcisstic, shallow and manipulative. Or are they being REAL now- with us? Because we are smart we question ‘authenticity’ We just want the TRUTH and maybe they haven’t done enough work on themselves to make us feel safe. We want to believe in them but we’ve been burned. What I found is I don’t know how to communicate all of this without the WS/CS becoming defensive or paying lip service. I don’t know how to tell WS/CS that I am still hurting and frightened. Doug? Any advice?
Hey Blue, I”m not sure how far along you are in the whole process, so forgive me if this does not apply in your situation. I certainly understand your issue with trusting. Your husband has to put the work in to make you feel safe and has to show through his actions that he is capable of earning your trust again. Obviously easier said than done. Depending on the situation, he may not be ready to do this yet for whatever reason. You need to somehow muster the strength and courage to at least ask him to help you. (Perhaps you have already done this) If he is trying at all to make amends and rebuild your marriage, I would think he could empathize enough to understand what you need and how you feel – and decide on his own to act accordingly. If that doesn’t work then perhaps you will need to tell him and/or demand it. Sometimes the cheater is thick headed or needs more of a push. (Read: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/how-to-get-the-cheater-to-help-you-heal-after-an-affair/ ) Regardless, at some point you need to make a decision to stop walking on eggshells and let him know what it’s going to take to help you.
Thank you and I hear you.
When a trigger hits I have to tell him how I need him to treat me, not turn his back on me. He is thick headed in this area- So am I!!! Just like Linda said below about communication. I think we communicated exactly like you before you learned how to ‘reach’ each other, make each other feel safe. The other woman has contacted him ‘again’ yesterday for work purposes, I KNOW she could have found out the info another way. And when he told me and I thanked him, Yet I let it fester and fester and other resentments surged and I was too emotional to communicate so I didn’t and he could tell, but went quiet and I felt so alone and frightened.
We still have a lot of work to do! I wish I was a fly on the wall and listen to how you and Linda communicate.
Blue, something else I have learned is that I don’t always have to be the emotional communicator in our relationship. I have realized that I have a tendency to be emotional and think for the both of us. After some research (I do a lot of reading) I came to the conclusion that if I try to keep my emotions in check, and try not to think aloud as often, this will give Doug an opportunity to step up and meet me half way. I have been reading books by Harriet Lerner and she talks about how in most relationships their is a high emotional person and a low person. Often the high emotional partner will do all the feeling in the relationship, allowing the low emotional partner off the hook. It is important to change things up and react differently than you had in the past. When a relationship is thrown off balance it allows both partners to become more aware of the patterns that exist in a relationship. I highly recommend all of her books. Linda
Blue. My wife wouldn’t tell me the truth about her EA, so I never expected her to be honest about whether or not she had sex with her AP. Fortunately or unfortunately, when checking her texts late one night (D-day) after a bad fight, I discovered objective evidence of the EA and it’s absence of a sexual component (my wife would typically have deleted these types of texts with the AP, and she had planned to delete them before going to bed, but she fell asleep waiting on a response from him and there they were for me to see). I suppose their discussion about continuing a ramped down friendship, which the AP was having reservations about, and their discussion about how the fact that they did not have sex should make it easier for them to continue contact with too much guilt, could have been a ruse to throw me off the scent. But I don’t think so because my wife never expected me to see the texts, not just b/c she planned to delete them before she went to bed, but b/c at the time she had no idea that I would be able to figure out what her phone lock password was.
That said, I agree with your statements about what “matters”. If my wife had not been able to convince me that she felt the devastation and true cruelty you spoke of, and if she had not convinced me that she had asked herself questions similar to what you have described and was certain that she NEVER again wanted to act like that kind of person again, I don’t believe that I would have gotten to a point where I genuinely forgave her for her EA and could trust her again as much as I trusted her before I began to suspect that she was having an affair with her AP. It was not easy to put the EA behind us and move on, and to regain a level of trust that each of us required in order to stay married, with my wife being honestly remorseful for her prior hurtful, deceitful and disrespectful behaviors and fully committed to doing everything she could to repair the EA’s damage and to convince me that a second, marriage-ending affair was not likely to occur. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to get beyond an affair and regain trust in a CS where the CS is not remorseful and/or is unable to convince their BS that positive changes have been made and that another EA or PA is not likely to happen (no guarantee’s that another affair might not occur, of course, but I think that most, if not all, of us had a feeling when we first got married that allowed us to opine at that time that the person we were marrying was not likely going to be one to cheat on us).
Again, I by no means immediately forgave me wife, and much like you was “faking” it a lot before enough time passed (that is, enough for me given the circumstances of my wife’s EA, her remorse and new self-awareness, and the improvements we had made in our communication/relationship) and other things fell into place such that I could leave the hell that was a relationship with a woman who I could no longer adequately trust. Your statement that perhaps the CS has not done enough work on themselves to make the BS safe is so TRUE! This is one of no doubt many reasons a BS might not yet have gotten to where they want to be post-affair discovery, and having been there for much longer than I cared to be, I can and do sympathize with all BS’s that still cannot adquately love their CS’s or cannot adequately trust their CS’s (yes, I’ll admit that I wanted the “hell” my wife and I were living to end sooner rather than later, so I was trying hard to get to genuine forgiveness, but it still took time, much too much time after my wife had shown appropriate remorse and evidence that she had changed for the better as a result of fully understanding the negative effects of her EA, and had my wife had any influence on me to get past the EA, she would have made me get past it almost immediately, which I didn’t, and wouldn’t most, if not all, CS’s want their BS’s to move on almost immediately after affair discovery?).
Healing Mark: Sorry if I got accusitory too. I hope and wish for the day I feel safe with my husband. It’s such a learning experience and long, long process of stumbling and picking yourself up again, being a team. I am learning a lot about myself too which makes me wince sometimes.
Best Wishes to everyone.
Blue. No worries. Your post was fine. Your assessment of the healing process is so true. I also like your mention of the team concept. Teammates share a common goal, and reaching that goal is usually made more difficult if one teammate does something to hurt another teammate. My wife and I share many common goals, one of which is to be happy together. As we stumbled and fell post-D-day, we discovered things that were not helping us reach this particular goal (painful discoveries at times), and worked to exclude these from our lives (continued contact with AP was one such thing). We also discovered things that helped us (improvements in communication, spending time together where we really were paying attention to each other and were not just physically present) and we embraced these and incorporated them into our “new” relationship.
Keep your head up and best of luck with all.
Blue, I believe the problem you have is very common, it is very difficult to communicate these feelings to your spouse. It took Doug and I a very long time to understand and correct the issues we had with communication. Initially we had to become aware and acknowledge that our emotional conversations played out the same way every time. He usually became frustrated and I became emotional, not very conducive to building trust or feeling cared for. After much research and conversations we both were able to learn to communicate in a fashion that allowed both of us to be heard. Doug began to realize that he needed to stop his coping behaviors, (defensive, blame, anger) and begin to be there for me, which helped my healing, and I needed to tone down the emotions which allowed Doug to relax. It took us a very long time to figure this out, and honestly these problems go back way before the affair. However, you can only deal with so much at a time when recovering from an affair. Our communication styles were not so important in the initial stages of recovery. We were just trying to make it through the day. Linda
Thank you so much Linda! I’ve been reading this site for a very long time now, you’d think I would have learned all this by now. I understand exactly what you are saying about communication. My husband and I communicate exactly how you stated. I just don’t know how to take my emotions out of it all the time- I get so pent up! I think it’s only happened a few times where I was able to subdue them and it went well.
It doesn’t help that the OW contacts him at work for things I’m sure she could resolve with someone else. Seems to me manipulation to keep her in his thoughts. She also has contacted me many times (to apologize and tell me her woes) and I vented but tried to be gentle- very scared of the ‘bunny boiler’ effect….I guess this is the next post ‘hatred for the AP’ oops!
Livingonafence…This is a place where you can come and vent…so hopefully you won’t say it to your CS…please don’t let what others say to you stop you from truly expressing what you feel deep inside, burying it will only make your healing incomplete and slow…please feel free to be completely open and honest on this blog…I understand your deep anger and pain…I’ve been there also…. 😀
Hurtwife, my H’s EA was also with an ex, one he also never talked much about, except to say he didn’t care for her at all. Well, fast forward 18 years, throw in a little Facebook, and you get one ruined marriage. You’re right. How do you ever trust again? How do you trust that you aren’t the runner up? What happens if the ex is suddenly single? Are you the one that will end up single?
There is no security in this kind of relationship. It’s a constant rollercoaster, and this feeling of inadequecy, like the mistrust, the anger, the sadness, isn’t going away.
Honestly, I wish my H had just had a one night stand. As horrible as that would have been, it would have been a momentary lapse in judgement without any feeling attached. Instead, he falls in love with someone else. Or infatuation, or whatever we want to label it. She got my romance, she got my sweet nothings, she got the little ‘thinking of you’ texts. In a nutshell, she got my happiness while I was left with a shell of a marriage. She got all the things I would have loved. I would have loved them for even a day. She got them for months. It’s heartbreaking, and it really does make me, and probably you, feel very unattractive and unlovable. At least in my case, I don’t see how it wouldn’t. I was available and more that willing to be involved in some flirting. But he chose someone else. It hurts.
Our relationship sucks and there really is no love anymore. It’s been a year and a half and we just have a bad, unhealthy relationship. I feel alone, unloved and unsupported and my partner feels like everything is unfair- he can’t go where he wants, do what he wants, see who he wants when he wants. His family feels like it was my fault, that he was driven to cheat because of my flaws and inadequacies, and I don’t want to have anything to do with them. For a long time he wouldn’t do anything to build trust, even the things our counselor recommended and then later it turned out his family was coaching him to establish his “power” in the relationship by not listening to me or the counselor. My family and friends try to be supportive but after the 1000th lie and fight and me calling them crying, it’s hard. We don’t have any trust and even when we’re not fighting we never relax around each other, I have pretty much lost the ability to relax around anyone. I lost my trust in everyone, and everything around me. I’m depressed, upset and anxious a lot of the time and so stressed I barely even remember the last year and a half. I have pretty much lost all respect for him, and he feels upset that I don’t treat him with more love and respect. All this fighting and lying, constant betrayals, going back on commitments and promises, refusing to do things the counselor recommended, has taken everything out of me. I used to read these things and think that 2-5 years to get over an affair was so long, but now I realize that this will affect me for the rest of my life. I don’t think I will ever trust another person the way I did before this.
This sounds terrible. I’m pro-marriage (even though I’m having such a hard time staying in mine!) but when someone says “this sucks” the only thing I can say is: Fix it or get out! If you really think that life is unbearable for both of you and there’s absolutely no way you can work it out, then you should leave.
Staying is unfair to both of you.
Best of luck, sweetie.
Sam, what an AWESOME post. You said in a 10th of what I previously posted exactly how I feel. I realize that the CS was wrong to have an affair and is responsible for the pain and other negative consequenses their affair has caused. And I also realize that the CS, as Doug has apparently done, although not as “smoothly” as perhaps he and Linda would have liked, more than likely needs to do certain things post-affair discovery to regain trust, obtain their BS’s forgiveness, and to assist their (why can’t I spell this word correctly so often?) BS with the healing process.
But at some point, and it seems to me that many a BS has gotten to this point, you have to stop throwing yourself pity parties, you have to stop blaming your CS for all that is “wrong” with your relationship, and grow up and take some responsibility for what is going on in your life. For me, I can’t often control how I feel, but I usually can, with some effort, control how I let my feelings affect how I act and how what I’m feeling affects how I am going to continue to feel. As an example, my wife says something in anger that hurts my feelings and makes me angry, which I can’t control since this is truly how I feel after she has said whatever. However, I can control how I respond to her (hopefully, I can’t stop myself from lashing out at her in an attempt to hurt her feelings as well) and I can also control whether I am going to let the fact that she hurt my feelings cause me to be unhappy the rest of the night or God forbid the balance of a weekend.
At some point, even the most apologetic and remourseful CS is going “check out” if it is not apparent to them that there is some hope that their BS is going to at some point forgive them for all that the CS has done. It was certainly hard for my wife to interact with me in positive way during the time when she knew that I had not yet regained the level of trust that is typical of a loving and healthy relationshhip (it wasn’t, of course, “wrong” that such a period of time existed, just that until it ceased to exist, my wife did not feel as loved by me, and could not reciprocate such loving feelings). And while my hurt and anger about her betrayl would cause me to lash out now and then against her (again, I was justified in being hurt and angry, but this did not prevent my lashing out from having inevitable negative consequences in our healing process). And good Lord, if the CS feels that the BS is forever going to hold against them the fact that an affair occurred, why would the CS want to remain married to their BS? So while, yes, the CS was “wrong” to have cheated, if the BS wants to be happily married to the CS, they have to understand that how they feel and act after affair discovery affects whether or not they and their CS are able, after affair discovery, to be happy together and to feel love, respect and trust. True, at the beginning of the healing process the feelings and actions of the BS appear to often get in the way of fostering a loving and healty marriage (no surprise here!). But at some point, if this cannot be stopped, or at least minimized to an acceptable level, then whether the relationship should be continued should be examined, and whether this is done by the BS, or by the CS either knowingly or unknowingly (unknowingly being where the CS appears to the BS to not be “doing what the BS needs the CS to do in order to assist with healing” and, in fact, the CS is no longer doing such due to the “crap” they are having to put up with, and due to how long they have had to put up with such “crap”, and the fact that such “crap” and the length of time that it has been present in the relationship has perhaps caused the CS just stop trying to move on beyond the affair and for whatever reason the CS is not at that point ready to be the one that ends the marriage – perhaps b/c they feel that the blame for the marriage ending will be put on them and they are not then ready to accept such blame).
Again, if a BS or CS feels fairly certain that there is absolutely no way that the marriage can be healed, the marriage should be ended and the parties should move on as life is too short to be in a relationship that is unlikely to ever make one or both of the parties to it happy.
My husband had a nearly seven year EA with a married woman living in a different state. He had met her when he was working out of our home state for a year. We went to marriage conselng twice. I found out about the affair after it had been going on for three years, confronted both of them and demanded it stop. It didn’t. Because we are older, the affair was conducted via US mail. He simply had her letters to him sent to his work. I found out four years after the first time I discovered the affair that it was still going on. I do not love, or even like this man. He has blamed me for everything and says he did nothing wrong. Duriing our second time with counseling, our counselor told him that he was a complete narcisist; everying is his, me, or I. It’s never ours, us, or we. We have been married for forty years and I simply cannot afford to get a divorce. So, while I once loved him very much, now I am totally indifferent towards him. So sad!
Leaving another comment on this topic: how has our love changed…
Well, I went out to a party today. Something I really haven’t done in a while. I used to be very social and had all kinds of friends and concerts and stuff going on – but since the EA, I have withdrawn. I rarely go out unless it’s on a “date” with my husband. (Which we’ve been having a lot lately! Probably more this past year than we had in 15 years of marriage. )
I thought going to a “girl’s night in” would cheer me up! There was a make-up demonstration, lots of junk food and pastries and girly drinks. It was a good time for the most part. I was feeling a little like my old self again – almost happy!
But then a few of the girls there started talking about relationships. One was complaining about her cheating husband and how she had smashed his computer with a baseball bat after finding a string of e-mails from another woman. I immediately got very uncomfortable with this topic of conversation. However, I was (obviously) very sympathetic to her pain. She and her husband have separated and she was saying she’ll only take him back if he agrees to start marriage counseling. Another woman there was like “Why would you take him back? If he did it once, he’ll do it again!” Everyone was chiming in with their opinion. All I could do was just listen and stare, nod every once in a while, but I was frozen. Unable to utter a single word. In the past, issues like this seemed so alien to me. While I was completely aware of infidelity and the struggles of marriage, I never thought this could happen to me. I never thought my husband could do something like this. I thought we were “different”.
Apparently everyone else thought the same because suddenly one of the women in the group turned to me and said “We all need husbands like Sam! He’s the sweetest thing. We can only wish to be a couple as adorable as they are!”
I think I threw up a little in my mouth. I was choking and suddenly wished I was invisible. All eyes were on me.
In the past, I would probably have been smiling. Feeling incredibly lucky and blessed, and I would probably had said “Thank you. My husband is awesome.” Or something along those lines. That was always my response! I never said anything negative about my husband to ANYONE. Even if I was mad at him, I never threw him under the bus. I always felt that would be an act of disloyalty.
This time around it was a different story. I just laughed and said “Well, we’re not perfect. There are ups and downs, like in every marriage.”
Even that ambiguous/vague answer felt both a little dishonest to my friends and disloyal to my husband. I feel like a fraud.
I yearn for the days when I could honestly smile and sparkle when I was talking about my husband. I miss the times when I could brag about how amazing he was.
Add this to the list of things that have changed. Things that will never be the same. 🙁
Sam…I hear that ALL the time about my H and my marriage…I feel like such a fraud! I’ve told my H that maybe I should go to Hollywood…I’m a shoe in for an Academy Award!! :/
Sam, I’m in the exact same boat, everyone loves my ex, and people would say all of those things. He is a lovely man, really lovely, he just had a very long moment of madness, when under extreme duress, and tried his very, very best to extricate himself from the affair without anyone knowing, so as to avoid all of this chaos, and he has worked his guts out to try to repair the damage. I’ve had people (who didn’t know, there aren’t too many of them these days, we live in a small town) say the EXACT words your girlfriends did, my God, it just about made me pass out with the pain! The act you have to put on, just to get out of the door is blimmin’ hard work!
My best friend always says your hubby treats you like a queen (no one knows what he did) same thing I want to scream if you only knew what he did to me you wouln’t think he was so great.
My love for him is guarded…very guarded. He tells me he loves me and we have the best marriage ever about 10 times a day. Some days I hear it others I thik really it was the same as before the EA so why did you do it?
Some days I feel like I cant live like this the rest of my life. I once told my husband that I could live with about anything but an affair was a deal breaker. I am 20 months past dday and still hurt everyday from this. Not as much but its still there. I have no tolerance anymore for his little personality quirks…they just anger me and I do not take ANY of his shit anymore.
HIS behavior has left me antisocial, depressed, lonely, guarded and unable to function like I use to. My actual feelings are what I would desribe as numb. I dont feel angry nor do I feel happy …I am just here..How dare he or anyone else for that matter do this to me.
He no longer wishes to talk about it because he said he doesnt want to be reminded of what he did …..just wonder….is he not remnded everytime he looks into my eyes and sees the light burning out when just 20 months ago it was shining.
I hate cheaters and to Healing Mark I generally reallylove your posts but you were off the money when you said the husband deserved the right to make choises to the other poster. Cheaters lose their right to anything the moment they cross the line. As I have stated before I dont beleive in excuses…I dont beleive in affair fogs…I beleive we ALL know what we are doing all of the time unless we are sick physically or mentally in some way.
The longer this goes on the less I think I can live with this. So yes I love my husband but his behavior has basically destroyed us.
How has our love changed?
Even after a year it continues to change. I thought once my H started loving me again I would feel the same. He does a lot to show me he loves me and is committed to our marraige.
Last night I was thinking, which would be easier 1. To stay with him and try and forgive or 2. Leave him and heal myself and figure out who I am without the constant reminder of the pain he caused.
He has no idea Ive been feeling this way. He never asks how Im doing (emotionally) with getting over what he’s done to our lives. We seem to be just faking our way thru life, pretending like nothing happened. We never talk about his EA! Im petrafied to rock the boat. I feel happy, I mean he’s doing and saying all the right things, but I dont feel right…Does that make sense?
I feel as if there hasnt been closure…I dont know all the details. I think I need them to fully recover.
But like I said, I dont know how to talk about his EA without rocking the boat…
H says he just wants to put it in the past. Well, I do too! I just dont know how to put something in the past that was so devastating and that I dont even know the whole truth about.
The first time he cheated was 4years after we married. It was a one time thing, but it devastated me! I kicked him out and hated him so much, then I went and had a one time thing myself…and felt worse. I dont think either of us fully recovered from that. During the discovery of his EA I also found out that his one night stand was actually a series of one night stands with the same slut! No emotional attachment however.
I dont want to find out years from now that the things hes told me about his EA were lies. I already feel like Im reliving his one nighter even though it was almost 12 years ago.
So as far as my love goes…I dont know…I love my H. I trust him with our kids, our finances, everything…Except my heart! I dont know if I can ever fully recover or give him my whole heart again.
Some days I still feel like his EA was all my fault. I went on depression meds after his one nighter and thru the years they dibilatated me. I was tired ALL the time, not able to really enjoy life.(I would drink those damm energy drinks all the time…trying to wake myself up and be like I use to) He felt alone and found someone to talk to. (When he first started talking to the OW he would tell her things like “i found the right woman (meaning me) youll get married someday, you just havent found the right one,, I know I found the right woman (meaning me again)”
I remember him telling me about this conversation when it happened. Somewhere along the line he started directing those feelings toward the OW. At the time I didnt relize that our relationship was becoming worse. He became emotionally detached from me. I thought it was due to his new business venture (stress). My depression was at an all time high (Im sure it was due to his EA that I didnt know about) we fought like never before. Then I came off the meds (I have to say that I asked him so many times to go to the dr. with me, something was wrong with me and I couldnt explain it to the dr. I wanted his help doing this. His answer to me was…I dont like dr.’s…get him to change your meds.) He would yell at me all the time because I was so tired all the time (fuckin drugs…I hate them..found out I should have never been on them as long as I was…I was depressed about his one nighter and the drugs took that pain away..but they also took away ME!)
So I lost who I was. And when I started comming off of them a month before I found out about his EA, I felt like a fog had been lifted off of me, and i was left with not knowing who or what I am anymore. Then a month later I started looking at our marriage and not understanding why it felt like he hated me so much. so I looked at his phone records and found out about his year and half EA.
So now Im left with trying to figure WHO I am! (the drugs really screwed me up) and figuring out who my H is!
I feel like he had every right to feel lonely, I had no energy for him (although before his EA we did do a lot together. I feel like it was after he started talkin to the OW that is when our relationship really went down hill fast)
So Im left with wondering if it was my meds that caused him to stray? or if he just liked the excitment of talkin to someone new? I really cant tell cause I dont know who the f i am anymore.
I remember asking him a bunch of times if there was someone else. H would always say no, of course not, I would never cheat on you again. Ha. first lie of many to come.
Im constantly questioning whether or not it was my fault. He felt lonely. But I tried reaching out to him many times. He always pushed me away and now I know why…
We dont have money for counseling so we’re doing it on the fly…But I feel like we’re stuck in limbo. I want that deeper connection but cant seem to figure out how to get there.
I would really appreciate some advise! I feel so lost at times and no one understands. Thanx to all of you I can at least not feel so alone….
I’m afraid I don’t have any advice for you, but I wanted you to know you’re not alone — I’m feeling the same way; I could have written many of the same words you wrote. It’s been 11 months, and things are better for me day to day, but I still haven’t seen any real remorse. We talked quite a bit about the situation at the beginning, and he was always willing to answer questions, except I discovered later that he wasn’t always answering them truthfully. So now I don’t know when to believe him. He doesn’t even know the extent of what I’ve dug up on my own (he says it was never physical, just fantasy, but I found proof that it was quite physical indeed), and I don’t know why I’m afraid to bring that up — I guess because I’m waiting for him to confess on his own. I realize that may never happen, but I feel like I won’t be able to completely trust him unless he does. I never knew what a great liar he is!
Well, I’ve gotten off on my own tangent, and I really just wanted to express my empathy and hope for you that you’ll figure out a way to get to that deeper connection. Coming to this site has helped me a lot. You’re not alone!
Jen-I feel the same…I know Im suppose to agree that it was both our faults for where we are…but I dont feel like I deserve any of the blame…is this wrong or selfish??
I dont think we were ever really disconnected until my H started his EA. But due to the meds I cant remember exactly how it went…just going with how I felt at the time.
How can I be the blame in this when I was sick on meds. I asked for his help so many times, I emailed him articles on what I was going thru to help him understand what I was going thru. He just turned his back completely and found someone else. I mean, what if I had cancer or some other disease that affected our lives…would he, will he, do this to me/us again??
Im so angry with him! Ive told him in the past to look at this website and it would help both of us. His response was always the same…”dont beleive everything you read online” One time he actually said “why dont you google emotional abandonment”!!!
I dont see any real remorse from him either!
To make matters more complicated…Saturday the OW texted me to give me her new number. She had changed it, and I just figured it was for the better because I would text her sometimes to ask questions. Thing is…that was her chance to be done with it all and she contacts ME!!
I can only sumize that she is a drama queen and likes attention. And her breakup from her boyfriend has made her life boring now. Not really sure…really weird situation!
I too feel as you do..I think there might have been something physical that he will never confess to me. But I have not found any proof yet.. Im almost scared to really know the truth. I know if he did, than I will not stay with him. I could not go thru a full blown affair. (even while Im saying this, I know I said the same thing about not being able to go thru and recover from his EA, and here I am) No one really knows what they would do in a situation until they are in it!
How long has it been since you and your H spoke about the EA? For me, about 2months…and I dont know how to bring it up without pushing him away…If I figure it out Ill let you know
Best of luck on your Journey!! 🙂
I feel the same way…you are def not alone. In fact I too struggled with depression and that was one of his excuses. Funny though when I decided to never take anti depressants again because they made me feel like you described…was the very time he cheated on me. Ahhhh gotta love their excuse. IT ISNT YOUR FAULT.
Broke-Thank you for your comment! Im not sure why but it made me feel better just knowing that a CS used the same excuse!
My wife had a 9 month long affair with one man and multiple other affairs with other men. I don’ t have any clue that she was unhappy or she had needs that were unfulfilled. I did have a clue after 10 yrs of marriage that she was unhappy. If i am not happy with something I fix it with the person I have am unhappy about. I have always been loyal. I worked my ass off to support her and the kids. I worked 3 jobs for putting food on the table and support her lazy lifestyle. what have I done wrong. It feels like my whole life came crashing on me. What for did i work? for me? no .. who the fuck wants to work 24/7? seriously? unless it is a prerequisite for keeping up the lifestyle that she was used to and supporting my kid? And what do i get for that? Betrayal. Yep!
Now .. I don’t love anyone other than my kid. THe only reason is that my kid has not betrayed me yet. I am not in love with her anymore .. going through life as a lifeless corpse. The only reason I am still alive is my kid .. I need to provide my kid. THe fucking laws in this country are such that I can’t have full custody of my kid even when it is the wife’s fault .. there s no fucking logic… but here were .. going through life as a married couple without love or trust. I can’t trust here at all. I feel like puking when she says she loves me .. I mean WTF? She told me she didn’t love me to my face. On the same day she told the other guy she loved him like her life.
Am I wrong?
Joe, if she has had multiple affair your wife is most likely a serial affair personality and will need professional help to over come it. Have either she or you seen a marriage counselor? If not I recommend it, you seem to need help getting over your rage and she needs it to see why she continues this type of behavior. This doesn’t this mean your marriage will work out, and to be honest, in my opinion I don’t think it should with her repeat affairs but that is for you two to decide.
As far as divorce laws in most states you are right in that infidelity is usually not considered in terms of custody. What is usually considered is the well being of the child and the parents financial ability to provide for the child. If you are the majority income earner in your household and both of you are considered good parents by the court them you would most likely get the majority of custody, not all unless she is an obviously unfit mother. I would recommend looking in to it with a divorce lawyer and she what they say.
Now don’t get me wrong I’m not promoting divorce, if I was I would have left the day after I confronted my wife about her EA, but in cases where one partner is a serial affairist and the other is angry and ‘dead in the relationship it is not good for the child. They can tell something is wrong even if they are not told and growing up in an uncertain and unloving environment it not good for their health and mental well being. They would be better off shuttling between two households knowing that although mom and dad don’t love each other they still love them. Also with time away from each other the parents cn usually come to a point that they don’t hate each other.
What has changed in the year since I discovered his EA? I no longer love him like I once did – I was infatuated with him for 18 years. For 6 months he avoided talking to me, texting, would leave the room, wouldn’t sit and talk, argued nonstop and suddenly cared that he was overweight. I found out he was telling me he was busy, but he was eating lunch with her in “their spot” and texting her while ignoring me. I told him hid had to stop….he said it did…he lied…a few months later I find out they are still meeting, now she’s in the same class as him (he’s a nontraditional college student)…she’s 21 years younger than him for God’s sake. My heart hurts for the love I lost, I’m angry at the lies and the untruth of our marriage. I don’t believe I’m loved, pretty or good enough. I have anxiety attacks, do not trust him (ever) and have gotten almost paranoid. He won’t talk about it, doesn’t have “time” for counseling….so I just exist and cry and rage by myself. That’s what changed because of his stupid emotional affair.
Some of the above rings so true, and having a bad day day so just need to do this.
We’ve been back together 6 months, it took him just as long to see reality and for us to give it another shot after we’d split and I’d filed for divorce, and I do still love him and in the main it’s good it really is, and I know he’s making an effort just not how I’d want but he’s doing things.
It’s buried now for him though, his way of coping which I know means he’s probably not dealt with it but what can I do. Me I still suffer, sometimes a memory triggers thoughts and I wipe them away then other days they consume me, I question things, am I here for the right reasons, do we have a future, is this now intended to be till death do us part if not I don’t want to waste my time with him. It’s this time last year I started to realise things were wrong, really wrong, then all the ddays started and it’s our anniversary at the end of our month and what does that mean, I don’t wear my rings anymore.
When I get like this I’m too emotional to make a decision but are these thoughts real or just a result of me driving myself crazy analysing things. Do I stay or go, if I stay how long will these things really just fade with time or will I get to a point where I realise I can or can’t live with this.
I do still hate her too because she went after him knowing he was married and kids, she wanted him not just the affair but a long term relationship kids and all. I know I need to forgive her to truly let go but I don’t know how.
I wish someone could tell me the right thing to do because I don’t know if I do, we had such a good day yesterday and then today look at me, worst is because I really am at my worse I’m short with my kids they don’t deserve this none of us do.
So yes I still love him, I guess it’s a different love now though. It’s a new relationship we are both different people he’s changed and changed me, the deceitfulness is hardest that the man I married could lie so easily and planned lying – the night away with her, planned as a stag do the what I’m doing today, the thinking of going on a sunbed cause he was going on one with her. I hate him for what he’s done to me but I still love him I’m just not sure it’s enough or that I’ll get what I need from us now I’m more aware of what I want and need from a relationship. Is it wrong to stay for your kids too, if in the main you’re happy.
WOW! I just found this site and have been reading several posts and comments. (It took a while to figure out the abbreviation.)
Right now, I am very confused about how or if I love my wife. At the end of January I discovered she had the EA with someone she knew from before we were married. The OM lives in a different state so I am sure it is only an EA. She “ended it” but I I wasn’t sure we would make it to our 21st anniversary in March. I tried to trust but yet a few days before our anniversary I found out she was still in contact with him. She “ended it again. Blocking him in Facebook and there was no more or calls.
I wanted so much for things to work out. But at the second D-Day, I told her I could not take it a 3rd time. Well the third D-Day was Wednesday. I told her I wanted a divorce. That I cannot live this way. She called the OM and told him it was over. She says that she only wants me and he was helping her to understand me. I cannot believe that line of crap. She says he is a certified counselor. What about ethics???
We spent sometime yesterday trying to reconnect. But I have raw emotions. I really do not want a divorce but I cannot live like this. Today I am depressed and my heart is broken. I have not called an attorney but have created a separate bank account where my paychecks will be direct deposited.
Many of the comments have stood out as I read this morning. They speak of exactly what W has told me. I believe she is still trying to justify the EA so it can continue. Leaving the hard choices to me.
Thanks for letting me vent. I have no one to talk to about this.
Well, Jim, you’ve come to the right place. Please keep reading the posts and the comments. I would warn you, though, limit how much you read each day. There are plenty of great comments with lots of good advice but sometimes reading too much can overwhelm you. And read books. Read and educate yourself.
The first thing is to take care of yourself and your needs. Sorry but her problems right now are hers. You have been hurt and for you to recover you have to take care of yourself. Get counseling. The ride you are now on will have its ups and downs but you need help negotiating it. It also sounds like your W is still in the “fog” and you will have to realize that the truth will come out in bits and pieces or not at all. This is something that we all have had to deal with. You have to decide for yourself whether you can. I am still amazed at how similar all of our problems are as BS (betrayed spouses). Come to this site to vent and to get help. Good Luck!
thanks for the welcome. life is okay today. I know from reading posts that I am just starting this journey. I know I need to get counseling but I have no money for it. maybe I can find a priest or somebody like that the to talk to.
A good friend to bounce your feelings off is very helpful. Be careful about who you talk to – sometimes it can hurt you. I talked endlessly to my poor sister but she is very insightful and was very helpful. I understand about the money – it is expensive. Maybe you could check with your insurer (if you have health insurance). A lot of times they pay for counseling. Just a thought. Please read. A lot of the books Doug and LInda suggest in the library are wonderful and will help you to understand. I thank God every day for these two wonderful people for setting up this site. Hang in there and let us all help if we can!
Unfortunately I do not have insurance. Haven’t since 2010. My wife does but I cannot get coverage.
As far as friends, most have drifted apart. I was and am trying to make new one but you cannot start off by saying “Oh BTW, my wife is cheating on me.” They would think you are a nut case and run away. ;>
My church offerd free support groups for cheaters and betrayed spouses…call locall churchs and see. Especially the big mega churches.
Check with either your insurance or hers, many insurance companies cover multiple visits for therapy under a Wellness program. My wife ‘s covers up to eight visit per year for each of us seperately and eight more together and will cover more if needed. Mine doesn’t do anything since I am self employee and don’t have any.
Hey Jim, Sorry that you are going through this. I’m sure that you have probably thought about this already, but I just wanted to say just be sure that you think things through before acting on anything. Your emotions are running extremely high right now and you need to settle down a bit before making such decisions like divorce. Read today’s post on separation and an earlier one on divorce as well: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/should-you-save-the-marriage-or-file-for-divorce/ Best wishes!
I’m so sorry Jim. An EA hurts enough without finding out they’re still at it, and then to find out again? How painful. I’m truly just so sad for you.
It’s cruel that she did this to you. She saw the devastation the first time, and again the second. She just remains in that selfish world cheaters live in. Everything is fine as long as you don’t find out.
Only you know what the right thing to do is as only you know your wife and your marriage. Whatever you choose, I hope it’s what YOU want. Now it’s time for you to be selfish and worry about you.
There is one known fact here – your wife will lie to you again and again without caring how much you’ve been hurt already. she let you think he was blocked from her life. Only now, at discovery #3, is he suddenly helping her with you and he’s a counselor. That seems more than a little fishy to me.
Jim, do what’s best for you. We BSs have been neglected, abused and deceived by a very selfish person. It’s the time for you Jim. Worry about Jim. I’m so very sorry.
Dear Jim, Let me just say that while everyone’s journey is different, it seems VERY consistent for the CS to have their head up their asses for a long time. It seems nearly impossible for the person to pull themselves out of the affair fog immediately and their justifications have seriously strong holds on them.
Everything you say sounds in the range of normal for the aftermath and that SUCKS and is a process. There is no rationalizing your way out of feeling horrible.
I’d say that reading around here and getting a sense of the range of processes will be helpful. It has only been three months. That is still fresh but I like to hear you putting your foot down.
I recommend reading Shirley Glass’s Not Just Friends. It was SO helpful in this period.
And, my H and I are nine months out and in a good place now (still hard but good) but it took a lot to get to the truth.
Good luck.
Respectfully, I don’t think two false Rs is normal. His wife stated she was done talking to this person, meaning the EA was over, when in fact she had only taken it further underground.
Again, respectfully, I don’t think this is normal. Even one false R is a deal breaker for most, but two? No, It is consistent for the CS to have their head up their ass, defending themselves, the AP, their actions, etc. Two false Rs is very bad. Very, very bad.
What is R and AP?
R is short for reconciliation and AP for affair partner. At three months you aren’t too far in to this and it is very painful at that stage. I don’t think thereare many on this board who have been able to get a complete no contact to work on the first atempt and many did not on the second. Sometimes it does take something as strong as kicking your partner out of the house or filing for divorce to get them to get their head out of their ass and see what they are doing.
With the money issues and pull back of friends you are going to need to find some way to vent and talk about this. If you are religious then I do recommend the priest route as it would help. It’s not for me since I’m agnostic at best and lean more toward atheist. You might also try writing a journal about you feelings or even just letters to your wife, you don’t have to actually give them to her if you don’t want to. Also just reading up on this board and ‘talking’ to us will help you out alot, we’ve all been there and can help you through it.
Greg- Thanks for the explanation and the understanding. I am spiritual but have a healthy respect for any religion. I may be able to talk to a couple pastors (our old church and my mothers). Also I did know a catholic priest that I wanted to get back in touch with. I heard he retired though but he was a friend of mine many years ago.
I am finding that just being able to talk here is helping.
Thank you everyone for listening.
I guess it depends, Living on a fence, what the nature of the contact was, but I agree that regardless it sucks and is disrespectful and the height of crapitude.
My H swore there was NO e-mail and there had been 2 or 3 within the month afterwards. Then, he broke it off via email for real which I read and he lied that they exchanged one more childish and stupid exchange which was the final. Technically those were two more contacts with her, but it was not the same as big romantic letters plotting a future, so it all depends what is meant by no contact, but just observing behavior from people’s stories, it seems that there is always this lag of contact and/or gray area and/or lingering head up the ass feelings that stretch on a bit and seem to require the strength of the BS and time to heal. The BS saying enough is enough and I mean business is critical.
Anyway, this all stinks.
Hopeful – I will check into that book. Currently our library only has one copy and it is checked out. I will search for an e copy though.
Hey Jim, you can buy it on Amazon. Often they have used books that you can get real cheap. There is also a Kindle edition I believe. It’s a great book, btw.
I’m bummed I was out of town last week and missed this discussion when it was first posted — especially since this is an area I’m having so much trouble with and would love thoughts about.
Basically, in the almost four months since D-day my husband has come to the conclusion that he doesn’t know what love is and therefore doesn’t know if he loves me or not. He’s quick to clarify that it’s not that he *doesn’t* love me, but he also can’t say that he does love me. He’s said that he has to learn how to build emotions on a foundation of self-esteem (which he was lacking before) and until he loves himself, he can’t love anyone else.
This is a very frustrating place to be. There are days — weeks! — where our life feels better than before. Our relationship is closer, we spend time together and really listen, we’ve gotten to know each other again better. His EA really made us wake up about our relationship and we’ve drastically changed course. There were moments when I would have sworn he loved me. But then I asked if he did and… he can’t say that he does.
He says he’s committed to the process of going through marriage counseling (and has chosen me over the OW) but at the end of the day, we both have to work on ourselves and then see if we can still be together.
So… that’s where I am. Our marriage counselor is convinced he loves me and that we’ll end up together, but I don’t want to be with someone who won’t recognize and acknowledge he loves me. In the past we both adored each other and showed/said it often. We both felt so lucky to be with the other. Now, there are nights when I think to myself, “I shouldn’t be that difficult to love.” I don’t know if I want to be with someone who can’t figure out if they love me.
I’ve told my husband that I’ll give him some time to figure all of this out, but that I deserve more. He agrees I deserve more. What I don’t know is how long to wait. I feel very much in limbo. I’ve tried to pull back emotionally but it’s hard, especially during the times it feels like we’re almost back to normal — then I have to remind myself “If you asked him if he loved you right now, he couldn’t say yes.” That’s a very very sobering thought in a marriage.
Writerwife, I wouldn’t be too frustrated concerning his feelings right now. It is not that long after Dday and he is still confused about the feelings he had in the affair compared to the real, long term feelings that are present in a marriage.You have to remember he spend a lot of time justifying his affair and having real feelings for his wife were not included. I understand that you want to know how he feels and if his feelings are changing. I felt the same way and asked Doug constantly if his feelings have changed, does he love me again, etc. Looking back I realize this was not the right thing to do, it made me appear needy. I suggest you step back and allow your husband to process his emotions. Give him some time to really think about what he has done. Meanwhile, spend some time thinking about what you want and need and do some things for yourself. Linda
Writerwife,
I totally agree with Linda. It is very early still, and feelings for the OW are still strong. Think of it as your H is addicted to this woman. He likes the feel that the high of the affair gives him. It will take a while to process all the justification rationalized to himself for why he started the affair, continued it for as long as he did, why he betrayed himself, his wife, and family.
My H had to process and think of the question “What is love?”
Is it that exciting feeling when you are initially in a new relationship? He feels he loves you, but not the same way he loves the OW. All new love relationships start out exciting full of hope. This can’t be compared with the long term day to day love, that can be quite dull.
I also, like Linda, found that trying to get confirmation of H’s commitment, love, caring, and devotion to our relationship, got in the way of healing both of us. It made H feel pressure to say things I wanted to hear, when he was too confused to commit to anything or anybody. If H was forced to make up his mind, he would have chosen to give up on the marriage, because he just couldn’t handle the pressure he felt I was giving him.
I know it is hard being in limbo, especially not knowing how long limbo will last. It really is a lot of baby steps, as well as backward steps. This is a huge process of never ending patience. Just learn to treat your H with kindness and understanding, as you also need to do for yourself.
My H had totally lost himself in the EA. Was willing to give up everything he had worked for, for the last 20 years…kids, family, home, security, wife. And this was for someone who had no interest in having a relationship with H (lucky for us). Still for years, he has been, and I believe still is obsessed with the OW. If that doesn’t tell you it is all in the CS’s head, I don’t know what will.
Give it time…and lots of patience. In the mean time find yourself, who you want to be, what you want in life (not only your relationship), what you want to do with your life. Take care of yourself both mentally and physically. And do things you like. Now is the time to take care of you!
For me it is almost 2 years since DDay. We are still togehter and our daily life is as normal as can be, but I feel I have lost my love for my husband, even if I still want him around, I need him and I certainly don’t want him to leave us. We don’t have sex anymore, since almost one year. I want to have sex, really, but I just cannot imagine having it with him. I even suggested an open marriage in order to get the sex we need in our lives (even though it would kill me if he slept with another woman again). I myself have developed a little crush on a man much younger than I am. I am overweight and have absolutely no self-confidence about myself so there is no chance that this crush will ever be answered but it is so good for my mind at the moment, having something when in reality my love-life is a scrapheap.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have my love for my husband back and lead a normal, happy life, but is there a chance at all after 2 years of romantic separation?
If you find the answer to this melli let me know. We’re going on 1 1/2 years of no sex soon and I would really love to sleep with my wife again. Maybe someday she will want to but I know we need to work out our issues, individual and combined, completely first for her to feel comfortable with it.
Perhaps if your wife enjoys being touched, hugged, etc..you can offer to give her a body massage. It may get her in a better mood.
Understand, women want to have sex or intimacy when they feel loved…men want to have sex to show love and be intimate. It is the irony of mother nature.
Show your wife love in the many ways you can that touch her heart. Spend time with her, tell her how beautiful you think she is, hug her and touch her gently without expectations of sex, help around the house to make chores easier for her, take her to places you know she loves, share your life with her, give her tiny thoughtful gifts. Basically, be the best H you can be and woo her all over again, if she is willing. Through this her love will hopefully grow.
By the way, she will need to stop the EA before she will be receptive to all this, but it doesn’t hurt to be the best H ever, so when she comes out of her fog, she will see that what she had really wasn’t so bad after all…in fact, it really was pretty good. Good luck.
Jackie , she’s well out of the EA, it was a result of other deeper issues between us. I actually understand and agree with her reasons for not wanting to be with me sexually. Doesn’t mean I like it but I do understand it. As for the house chores those are not an issue as we have them pretty evenly divided up, I take care of the dishes, we both do the laundry, she folds and I put them away, I take care of breakfast and lunch for the kids she does dinner for all of us, I drop the kids off and pick them up from school and activities then she picks them up from my work when she gets back from her work, the outside of the house is my responsibility, inside is hers, and so on…
Unfortunately she is not the touchy feely type and little gifts seem fake to her she wants to see the effort and end result. I know it’s going to take time to get the emotional attachment back, it was gone well before the EA happened. Just have to keep plugging away at fixing the underlying issues.
Greg,
I found the book “The Five Love Languages” by Gary Chapman, very helpful in this area. It is about how we all need different things from our spouses to feel loved. Too often we may be doing the wrong kinds of things to show love to our spouse, when what they want or need is something else. Of course it is best if we can tell our spouses what we need to feel loved, but I like most people don’t really know exactly what it is that makes me feel loved.
Chapman separates the categories into five areas: Words of affirmation, acts of service, touch, gifts, and quality time. The theory is each of us feels most love primarily in one or two of these areas, and if our spouse is not doing things in that area…we just don’t feel the love that is there.
It is a beautifully written simple book, but makes a lot of sense. It is just another area where all spouses can use improvement to be a better spouse to their significant other.
No book is the answer we each seek, but many hold the keys to the puzzle of how we can improve our marriages and try to make it the best it can be.
I’ve actually browsed the book and it shows some of the disconnects we have. She falls into the acts of service and quality time categories while I fall in to the touch category, duh I’m a guy, and am split on the quality time and words of affirmation. I’m doing some work on myself so that I don’t need the words of affirmation so much and can lean more toward quality time so that we have a more evenly split middle ground and then we can each do some work in the categories that we lack in.
Greg,
of course I can understand both of you.
In fact, somewhen between month 5 and 10 after DDay we had fantastic sex on several days in a row, but it was mainly due to my hormonal state (which is a problem as I am taking antidepressants for almost 10 years now and my libido is as non-existant as can be except on 2-3 days per month…it’s really a sad life). Otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to do it – I just reacted on my hormones, there wasn’t much feeling involved. I wish I could to do this again, but since it is so long now that we live like brother and sister the mere thought of sleeping with him is so weird, almost disgusting for me.
I really feel desperate because I don’t know where this ends. If I have really no more love for him, if I find it disgusting when he touches me (and he tries, in a very gentle and harmless manner), if I only feel well and sexy and alive when I think of this other guy (which is ridiculous, I know, but the feeling is there at the moment) what can come of all this? I don’t want a divorce, I want my family to be intact, my kids deserve their two parents and there is no reason why it shouldn’t be that way, especially if we get along so extremely well in our daily life as long as there is no romantic involved…I’m at a coplete loss and I don’t want to think about it either. I don’t even know if it is worth starting anew with working on our marriage. Probably not at the moment, because I am so confused. When will my mind be clearer? How long can it take to heal? How many years??
Melli, I have a question about the effect of the anti-depressants since my wife is on them as well and actually had to up her dosage during this time. Do they affect you libido so much that you just don’t feel like any sexual involvement or is it just the thoughts of sex with him? If it was someone else would you feel more apt to want to have sex? Sorry if these questions are to forward and you don’t have to answer if you are uncomfortable.
Melli — for a long time I struggled with my low libido (I’ve been on hormone birth control for a decade and added anti-depressants last fall). Every time I visited my OBGYN I begged for help in this area. I didn’t know if the low libido was caused by the meds or not, but I felt like there had to be *something* I could do (I’d read about testosterone cream but my GYN never recommended it, though she did recommend some mail-order oils I never really tried). This was a huge issue in my life and a great source of (buried) conflict in my marriage.
Our marriage counselor is also a sex therapist and the experience has been revolutionary. I learned there were many other reasons for my low sexual desire (which I went into in more depth in the comments to the recent post on sex after D-day). There are still times I struggle with all of this, but I simply can’t express how much seeing a sex therapist has changed me and my life.
Greg,
antidepressants have a huge effect on the libido, especially most of the SSRIs (like Prozac etc.). You don’t have any inclination to have sex at all, your libido just disappears.
As I said before, my libido only shows up on certain days per month, and that is exactly when my menses is just over (I’m sorry if that is too detailed, but that is exactly the reason: it is hormonal as well!!). Then I have feelings, at the moment only for this guy, or better said: I’m craving for sex, only not with my hubby.
What can help a lot is bio-identical progesterone, which is a good choice for women anyway (many advantages).
Thanks Melli, that actually helps a lot.
Healing Mark…..Question? How do you communicate without just feeling physically in each others presence ….I feel that way alot. Like we are together but not much is said. Any pointers on this subject???
We talked ALOT the first year post dday but now seem to have settled into a routine he finds comforting…I find boring.
Broken. I am always happy to respond to your posts. Just so you know, my wife and I find it easy with our family and lives to communicate with everyone but ourselves until we turn in for the night (rarely the same time of night), so we try periodically during the day and night (excludes “date nights” of course) to connect for short periods of time, even if just to complain about the mundane rather than share exciting events that we prefer to share.
To answer your question, the way to do this is to not try to communicate where you are physically present but are not really paying attention to each other. For example, I am trying to tell my wife about my day but she is on Facebook on her phone. Or she is talking to me about something and I am on my laptop checking out whatever. Or we are physically together and one is talking to the other but rather than listenening the listener is paying attention to something else. The foregoing: All BAD. So to communicate contrary to what you have described, a lot is not only said, bu is also listened to with as few distractions as possible. Sounds corney, but my wife and I look at each other and nod because we are going to spend time solely looking at each other and talking with no distractions (usually with glasses of wine!), which we did plenty of times during or marriage, but found ourselves doing this less and less leading up to my wife’s EA, and found ourselves not doing this at all anymore once the EA began to be established and then flourished.
Greg, it would be good if your wife got her hormone levels tested. Hormones decrease with time and very often women in their late 30’s and beginning 40’s have severely low levels of progesterone, but sometimes estrogene and testosterone as well. You’ll only know if these are tested.
writerwife, of course there are hundreds of possibilities why one’s libido is low. I never had any problems until I got pregnant, after the births of my two boys and resulting from this (and the hormonal disorders) the postpartal depression which got chronic.
But it is great that sexual therapy is helping you!
After 15 months from D-day and my self educated PhD in Psychology I’m working each day at being my best self and doing what I can to enlighten my H. I know most of you will think that I am probably a bitchy person who likes to stick it to him, but that’s not true. I had never raised my voice, demanded anything, always encouraged whatever he wanted. But I lost sight of me in always wanting to show him the love he said he never had.
I need him to learn what I have and until last month he was completely resistent. He feels horrible about what he’s done and terrible about what I’ve had to go through because of his actions and has felt that this should be enough for us to rebuild and begin again.
Insanity as we all know is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. I have learned so much about who I was married to in the last year then in the previous 12 years and he’s got a santa bag full of baggage that needs his attention. And I am doing my best to gently help him see himself, change what he can and forgive himself.
How has the love changed between you and your spouse after the affair? A lot. Finding out that he had already stopped loving me for over a year without bothering to mention it has definitely affected my love for him. He, on the other hand, feels more love for me then he ever did. I’m at the , do you even know what love is, stage.
Is it more guarded? Absolutely I am more guarded. I’ve read it all and I know that until the issues are dealt with there a good chance it will happen again. I have lost my safe place, my comfort and my marriage. I think I’m still going through the mourning stage of my loss of my marriage even though I know that what I thought I had with my H was not what I actually had. I.E. my fog. He’s definitely more guarded, but opening up slowly which is what I need for us to go forward.
They say that the level of emotion you feel after finding about about an affair is equal to the level of love you had for your spouse before the bomb was dropped. I have traumatized him from my level of emotion and I now am making it my focus to help him find a comfort zone where he feels safe enough to talk to me.
Is there something lacking? We both have said that what we have missed the most was our friendship. But when he came to me and told me of his affair, he erroneously felt he could tell me this as a friend and not a husband. That was all I was to him at that time, in his mind. So, our friendship has suffered very much. And my idea of marriage is not what I have right now. It’s what he wants, but for me he left the marriage four years ago when he transferred his energy from our marriage to his lust for his co-worker.
Is it better? A bit better. We are both dealing with the fog syndrome and it’s a constant struggle to meet each others needs. His way of communicating his love is through the physical and mine is verbal. I trump in the area of needs right now and his need for the physical is only a reminder of what he wanted with her not me. I’m still having a hard time kissing him goodbye when I go to work. Every time he gets close to me it’s a crowd in the room. Him, me and her.
I know I sound like a bitch to the first degree, but I did nothing but loved him too much and he stomped on my every insecurities and for the first year after disclosure he did nothing to help me. He back slid, told me gut wrenching information I didn’t need to know and gave her more love and affection then he has ever given me. Now he says he loves me, tells me I’m beautiful which is something he never said to me prior to telling me he told her that every day for a year. In all my years and I’m 60, I’ve never felt such pain as I have and that includes losing 3 babies to still birth. I believe he is doing his best to be a complete person and I still love him enough to stay and see where it takes us.
I did pass one test I put on myself this last month. I wondered what I would do if I did get a job. Would I leave him or stay? I did get the job of my dreams and realized that my knee jerk wasn’t to leave. I was actually surprised. That realization told me that I was still in love with him.
My husband of 10 years cheated on me. I caught him with the other woman in her house both undressed, kissing, etc, just before they could be physical. He had a lot to drink, and after the dreadful events of the evening, he claimed that he could not remember a single thing of the evening. This is 4 months back. He still says that he has no memory of the evening, and can therefore not tell me why this happened, as he claims he loves me with all his heart. I find myself in a total stress everytime he has a drink, thinking that this may lead to another event of infidelity. I have good and bad days, but there is not a day that passes that I do not see the images of the two in my head, and think of all that was said on the evening. I find it difficult to believe that he has no memory, or that he may do this again. He is very impulsive and tends to be selfish. What he wants matters most. I still love him, but my love has definitely changed. It is difficult to explain, but I feel different, as if I am constantly analyzing and preparing for the day we are going to split. How do you go forward from this, when you have no answers as to why it happened, and see no real changes made by the person that cheated?