So, it’s time once again for an Open ‘Mic” Discussion. It’s been 3 months since our last one, so we were due.
In case you didn’t know, or are new to our site, the open discussion is where you guys call the shots and discuss the topics that you want to discuss.
We know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.
Anyways, the floor is all yours!
Feel free to discuss anything…
- What’s on your mind?
- What are you struggling with?
- Got any vacation plans this summer? What are they? (We’re headed to Colorado for a couple of weeks)
- Have any success stories to share? Big or small. (We especially want to hear some of these!)
- Wanna share any lessons you’ve learned recently?
- Got a question? Ask it.
- Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
- Any good books you’d like to discuss?
- What’s your favorite movie of all time?
- What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
- What’s working or not working?
- Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
- What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
- What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
- Tell us a little about yourself.
- Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!
Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below. And please reply to each other in the comments, as each person leaving a comment is not an isolated incident.
Thanks!
Linda & Doug
36 replies to "Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #35 – What’s On Your Mind?"
I’l get the ball rolling…I’d like to know more about some of the lessons you’ve learned (mistakes made) from your experience. Lessons about yourself, about your spouse, relationships, marriage, human nature, etc. And I’m hoping that both unfaithful and betrayed people could contribute. Thanks!
Hello Doug,
Thank you for posting this fantastic open discussion topic. The thing that I wanted to talk about today was how different my view on affairs were BEFORE I was betrayed by my ex. In fact, if people start with my older blog posts, they will notice that my views on infidelity have been evolving.
When I first started writing for this site, I truly believed that “affair-proofing” a marriage was possible. But, now that I have been studying infidelity exclusively and for a period of years, I found out it’s not possible to affair proof a marriage.
Now a caveat: it is possible to make your marriage the best marriage. But, since two people are in relationship, both people have to desire to make a marriage work.
Both people have to CHOOSE to stay faithful even when someone very enticing comes along. Since we cannot control others and can only control ourselves, the only thing we can do is to control our actions and set boundaries for ourselves and others.
So, in the beginning I believed it was possible to affair proof. Now, I do not because I know that we can only control ourselves.
Here is another myth I believed; but this was a myth I believed when I was a teenager. I believed that people could actually drive their spouse to cheat by not being “good enough” in some way. This belief was not only incorrect, it was absolutely TOXIC. It put the blame for the affair on the victim of the affair and I cannot believe I was ever stupid enough to think such a thing.
Now, I know that the blame for the affair falls on the shoulders of the cheating spouse and the other person IF the other person know they are dating someone who is married. The other person is especially to blame if they are a spouse poacher. Remember, spouse poachers set out to intentionally break up a marriage because they get a high from the power that they feel from destroying another person. While a married person must give in to a spouse poacher, it is not as easy as it seems. Spouse poachers are psychopaths and they are very intentional in their actions. When they set their sights on a target, they will pursue that target relentlessly. If this is a female spouse poacher and if she sees someone she believes she MUST have, she won’t give up unless another prospect comes along. She will do whatever it takes to have a man fall for her. Spouse poachers are called poachers because they are very intentional hunters who are “hunting” something that is not theirs to hunt. They are like wild animal poachers sneaking around in darkness, looking for an elephant who has the biggest ivory tusks. They will track that elephant for weeks and shoot him.
So, someone can be poached and they can so NO, but sometimes it is difficult to do so. They get full blame for their actions, but anyone who “hunts” a married person shares the blame.
What “myths” did you believe about infidelity BEFORE you found out your spouse cheated?
Or were your views of infidelity the same before and after being cheated on?
What are some of the most “bitter pills” you have had to swallow if you are recovering your marriage with your cheating spouse?
What feelings are so strong that they take your breath away?
What events occurred that left you speechless and unable to think?
Did you have any health consequences from your spouse’s affair? I got cervical cancer due to my ex’s wanderings. That was a bitter pill indeed.
BIG HUGS to all,
Sarah
I agree with everything you said Sarah. My husband is 100% responsible for what he did. Ultimately he committed to be in a relationship/marriage with me. We had extensive discussions while dating, before getting married and as a married couple related to our expectations of being committed to each other and being faithful. And yes my husband should have said no. He said once he cheated one time he felt like he could not undo it or go back and the damage was done. Both ow were very aggressive. They did not take no for an answer and pursued him. The one worked for 3-4 years to secure his cell phone number. She would find out from other people where he was and show up. He told me he told her no more times than he can remember of the years. Neither ow was married and neither wanted a relationship beyond what was happening. None of it will ever make sense from either side.
What “myths” did you believe about infidelity BEFORE you found out your spouse cheated?
-so many… basically anything that is perpetuated in society
-The betrayed must have done something wrong to cause it.
-They must not be having sex if someone cheats.
-The ap is better looks, personality, success/career than the betrayed.
-The affair was fun/amazing.
-The wayward is in love with the ap.
-The wayward does not love the betrayed.
Or were your views of infidelity the same before and after being cheated on?
Not at all. Before dday they were similar to what I see on tv/movies or read in books. Usually it is amazing and a fantasy. Not many negative consequences. And the betrayed often is at fault. I always knew we never really knew what goes on in people’s lives and there are two sides to every story. But yikes. People would have no idea what has happened with us.
What are some of the most “bitter pills” you have had to swallow if you are recovering your marriage with your cheating spouse?
-The fact I will never know all of the details.
-At a certain point I felt I just had to accept all that went on. It is not something I can ever “get over” but have to accept. Nothing will ever make it okay or right.
-The fact that my husband chose to spend time with these women instead of me and our family.
-That he could love me and do what he did.
What feelings are so strong that they take your breath away?
-That feeling on dday when he first told me. At times I still have flash backs to that moment. He does too so I guess that makes me feel a little better. It was a shock for me but really hard for him to tell me.
-The time he told me we should have never gotten married.
-Dday 2 set me back the most. I knew things were not adding up. He kept with his story line and telling me that was it. Finally I wrote him a letter and he broke down and gave me the entire truth. The new information was not ideal but it was the fact that after dday and telling me he wanted to try and make it work that he then lied to me and gaslighted me for five more months. He made me feel like I was crazy.
What events occurred that left you speechless and unable to think?
-He told me one time that I would like and be friends with one of the ow if we met.
-He had unprotected sex.
-He told me since one of the ow was a nurse that she had tests done to ensure she was “clean” meaning she had no STD’s etc.
Did you have any health consequences from your spouse’s affair?
So far no physical consequences. I did loose a lot of weight and that has set off health issues over the past four years. I have had doctors as me what happened four years ago that so much in my body changed then. Luckily nothing like you. We did go to get tested together. I know it was hard for him but it was a non negotiable. He did go at one point during the “affair years” and had a full set of tests done at a confidential lab. I guess in a way that makes me glad that it worried him enough to do that. It was not lost on him what he was doing was reckless. Not that it stopped him but that did weigh on him. It was not all fun and games.
Hi. My husband had an emotional affair for one month with his Masters student via WhatsApp. They met 3 times in his room to discuss her thesis. He felt sorry for her because of her divorcee status with 3 kids and wanted to take her as a second wife ( We are in a Muslim country).He assured me that he didn’t do any sexual thing with her and he didn’t go out with her. After the affair ended (she finally backed off after I told her off on Facebook), I told him to delete her number, her messages and unfriend her on Facebook. He tried his best to inform me everything about their relationship, with too many details actually.However her number is till there as she was part of a postgrad group on his phone. I blocked her number, and yesterday after 80 days of them not contacting each other ( I made them promise this to me), the number was unblocked on my husband’s phone. Throughout this 80-days my husband has been fairly positive towards me, helping around the house, being nice, etc, but he did get angry a few times when I asked him more details regarding this affair. Now, I am still not quite over the issue. I am still shattered actually.How do I keep believing in him ? Hubby is 46, I’m 45, the lady is 43. We’ve been married 20 years with 4 kids and this is the first time a woman actually reciprocated his advances. She says she’s getting married this June with her boyfriend she met last October, and her boyfriend confirmed this on Facebook.
One cannot affair proff a marriage. And if you’ve bought into that than I’m sorry you’ve been duped both financially and emotionally.
So many of us were completely taken off guard when we found out our spouses were cheaters. We were going along with our happy little lives ASSUMING all was well. Never even considering the prospect of having to affair proof our marriage.
What I’d like to see is more info instead of “affair proofing” is more info that if you suspect something is amiss, and surely we all had those red flags, here’s some actions you can take. And first and foremost is check the phone bill. Dump that info into a spreadsheet and sort. You will get a ton of information from that one simple action.
One can hire a PI and that’s the fastest and most efficient but also expensive. And it seems people are scared to do that. But there’s a lot one can do by themselves with technology. Unfortunately a lot of infidelity happens when we are older and maybe not quite up to speed with technology. Most older BS aren’t aware of GPS devices, key loggers, tracking software, multiple email and social media accounts, chatting apps, even games that have charting apps. It goes on and on.
It’s important to know about these technologies we all have access to. There’s a great on line store that sells and also if you call they can advise you what to use and how to use it. Google these resources. There’s one in particular i found very trust worthy called Spy Store. Lol sounds ominous doesn’t it.?
I wish earlier on I’d have known about these resources. I wish I’d have known about voice activated recorders i could have put in his car. I’d have found out a lot sooner especially after the first red flag that i ignored because oh hell no he’s not stupid enough to cheat and risk losing everything he’d worked his ass off to attain!
Yes i wish there were a resource to use to find this information all in one place listed with recommendations and how each technology works. All i can advise is IF you suspect get very smart. Do your research in technology or hire a PI if you feel you can’t handle using the technology yourself. You will save yourself a lot of time and grief.
So interesting all of your thoughts. We were not older, mid 30’s but neither of us are tech people. My husband especially is not into technology. He somehow figured out how to create fake emails and fake FB pages though…
Throughout the ten years of his affairs I had confronted him with general questions if he was ever approached women, did he approach them, did he ever communicate with women etc. He always told me no never. I should have trusted my gut much earlier. He had one friend who never liked me. I never was his biggest fan either. My husband would hang out with him and never tell me or leave his name off the list of friends he was hanging out with. This friend happened to be the one to introduce him to both ow. I remember I found out one day he was out with him the night before. I did go on his phone since I knew the pass code and read through all their texts. I just felt something was off. I checked through all his messages etc. Nothing. Since dday he has told me he never had either ow’s contact information saved and would erase any and all communication immediately. However I think you are right about the cell phone bills. I pay all the bills and had access to them all those years. If I had just gone through the phone bills I would have learned so much. His affairs were sporadic so there would be months with zero contact. One thing I found interesting was every time he went out with friends he would call me at the end of the night on his way home. If I did not answer he would call one of the ow. If I answered he would come home and not call them. There is not logic in any of this. but I agree I wish I had looked over those phone records sooner.
Hi Hopeful. I hope all is good with you.
Even though I’m older i have kept up with technology. No not a techie for sure. I guess i learned as i went. Yes first thing i did was get the phone data. He wasn’t much of a texter. Still isn’t so all the data were talk data. My h did the same thing. He’d call me in the way to her house to find out where i was. I knew because of the phone. Tower bings from her area :). Then he’d call me as he was leaving g. So i know how long he stayed there. Not long!!
I used the key loggers to see if he had started a new email account. He didn’t. I had a filter on his work account too with words highlighted to grab certain messages. Nothing again. I did find one burner phone early in reconciliation she’d given to him but that was only a couple weeks old. I also learned how to log into his work computer, don’t worry nothing illegal it’s my business was too, and found all the financial infidelity. Soon. After i purchased a GPS that i used for a year. I wanted to trust but i needed verification. I also learned how to log into his Google account and it shows all his searches from all his devices including work and phone. That Google tool also shows where he’s been. I used that to verify as well.
I don’t use any of this stuff anymore. Done playing marriage police. He wants to act ignorant i know I’ll find out. I know what to look for. But all this technology ga e me a little peace of mind too. Had i had any inkling again I’d hire a PI in a New York second
Yes! I went through all of the police detective for a while. I honestly think it was a phase I had to go through. Eventually I told him I was done with it and could not live that way. It was taking up a lot of my time. I used find my iPhone app which worked well. I don’t think he knew i was using it. In the end though I got to the point of if he wants to cheat he can find a way in person or digitally. And due to my husband’s work I will never have access to his work email, work computer, or work phone. I agree about hiring a PI. I would do it again and be at the lawyer’s office immediately. He claims if we separated that he would give me what I asked for etc. but not so sure that would happen at this point. He claims his family would be on my side. I have all of the records of everything. My big thing is he would have to tell his family and a light version to our kids. I would refuse to give this lame explanation of we grew apart… For now not a worry but I feel like I have to watch out for myself.
A side story is we got in a small fight/disagreement about how I feel women get the raw end of the deal in divorces. Basically it came up recently several couples divorcing and the women getting child support and half the marital assets. I feel that is not enough. The reason my husband is where he is today is I paid for his education, I paid for our moves and living expenses while he gained the necessary training, I covered his business expenses early on and I sacrificed my career to set his career up. And he has done really well. It is great but my issue is I did not do all of that to have it cut off in 2019 or whatever year. It felt like an investment since I thought we were a team. He say whoa nothing is happening to us and it is not an issue for us. But I find it very upsetting. In the end he is right there is nothing to worry about but the entire concept is upsetting.
Changing topics: I would like to hear your thoughts about having the AP apologize to the other woman’s spouse. I feel this would help bring closure because then I know the other woman’s spouse is fully aware of everything. Have the AP take responsibility for their actions.
DE, I think it varies depending on the situation and the knowledge one has of the the OP and his/her spouse – and needs to be thought out carefully. I can see where on one hand it could possibly be a meaningful gesture and experience. But on the other hand it could go horribly wrong.
Here’s a discussion we did on this topic some time ago where the comments reflect a variety of opinions: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/discussion-should-the-cheater-ask-for-forgiveness-from-the-affair-partners-spouse/
I am 18 months post DDay and have been reading this forum for a long time. I have recently just had another trigger moment and I don’t know if they will ever end. My problem is that I don’t think he would ever tell me if there was contact with any of his previous APs and I still have many questions that I know he hasn’t answered fully or truthfully. The only time I ever got the truth or some version of it was when I had hard facts, he always played everything down, so now I can’t trust a word he says. I now go with my instinct and know it’s the truth if it hurts to hear it but before I used to believe every word he said. I think I am very good at burying things and going with the flow but then I get triggered and i think it’s mainly to do with the unresolved issues but I am tired of always being the one to raise the discussion about what happened, I wish he would but he won’t ever. My mum stayed with my dad after discovering multiple affairs and my home life growing up was so bipolar. Sometimes everything would be lovely and ‘normal’ and then they would have a drink and all of the past would be dragged up in huge arguments and fights. I am terrified of doing this to my children so I tend to hold it all in, I am even managing to hold my triggers inside and pretend normal. I always swore that an affair in a relationship would be the end of the relationship as I saw what it did to my parents relationship. My husband knew this and I believed for 15 years he had the same principles as I do. I am so shocked that I have stayed in the relationship and I wouldn’t have if we hadn’t gone to therapy. He has changed massively since then and is ‘being the person he always wanted to be’. The therapy focused on him which threw me as I had believed (and he had made me believe) that the issues were all mine from my dysfunctional upbringing. The therapist really took him to town and stripped him right back.
He has come out of it like a superhuman, always there for the kids, listening to me, valuing me and trying to help me etc. It doesn’t sound like a lot but before he was totally absent and when he was around he was so horrible, I just wanted to be somewhere else.
He just isn’t helpful if I bring up the affairs. He gets angry and upset and says I’m not living in the now and choosing to live in the past (something the therapist spent a long time on) Perhaps I am, but I also realise now that it’s a great tactic for shutting me down and I guess it’s working.
It makes me so mad that he can waltz away from what he did and ‘live in the now’ and that’s my bitter pill.
What takes my breath away is how I can hold these things inside and pretend normal.
Bubble burst
I am so glad that you recognize that what your husband is doing by getting angry and upset when you bring up the affair is exactly that…A TACTIC and yes it’s working. I totally understand that you don’t want want to put your children through this turmoil…but stuffing your feelings is probably not the wisest way to go.
Something that we did and I know that Hopeful and her husband did this as well is set a specific time every week to tall about the affair….concerns, triggers and questions etc. We also kept the conversation at no longer than an hour…..that seemed to keep things contained a little better. This way I would know that I had a set time to address my concerns and my husband was not being blindsided. This was really quite helpful but trust me even then he had a way of evading our set time to talk.
I agree the battle that we are left to fight after our partners betray us is ABSOLUTELY EPIC!!! It’s a long hard process…18 months is not that far along in that process. My husband had plenty of tactics to avoid talking about the affair or listening to me talk about my pain. I started to call him on it. Maybe not right in the moment but a bit later when things were calmer. If I approached him in the morning he would say I had ruined his day. If I approached him in the evening he would say I ruined his night’s sleep. If I approached him during a meal he would push his plate aside in a sad manner say I ruined his appetite! And on and on……until I called him on it.
Please don’t pretend normal…. allow yourself to grieve….and trust me there is “anger” in grief.
Hi @shifting impressions. Thank you for your response.
I think one of the other tactics my husband tried to use is that he said post trigger once that I was being abusive, angry and hysterical and painted a picture of himself as a victim of my irrational behaviour. I called him out on it straight away. And made him define exactly what he meant by the terms he had used and how I had shown them as I knew I had not displayed any of those things. Yes I had got upset and angry but not to the degree he was implying. He tried to take back what he had said but I told him that if he seriously believed I had behaved in any of those ways then we had to call it a day there and then. I told him that he wanted to believe I was behaving like that so he could turn around and say to everyone ‘I tried everything but in the end she just couldn’t get over it and had become abusive so I had to leave’.
He hasn’t tried it since. But it might have worked as a tactic because I feel less like trying to talk to him when I am triggered or to talk about what happened.
DE,
I knew the OWs partner knew about the affair because I told him.
Iniatially, I regretted it as he then started to threaten to come around and fight with my husband. Not that he ever did. I don’t think any apology from my CS would have cut it and would probably have added fuel to the fire.
In the following months I met with him a few times to discuss our CSs and that helped as I only had the version of her from my husband and I wanted to know who she really was. It also helped to share the sadness and dismay at our partners behaviour. We even managed to laugh a few times.
The downside of it was he then started to want to meet in a hotel and wanted to progress the relationship. I had no interest in that whatsoever so I stopped communication with him.
So in answer to your question, I don’t think an apology would ever cut it no matter how heartfelt. Telling the OWs partner myself, helped me but can have pitfalls.
DE,
I wrote to the OW, told her “don’t bother to apologize to me.” Instead, if she’s really sorry about what she did, she should just fix her marriage problem instead of looking for attention from a married man. She told my H that she’s not happy in her marriage, that’s why she pursued the relationship. I don’t want my H apologize to her H either. I don’t want the risk of opening contact with OW again. I would rather him working on our marriage after his betrayal. I haven’t gotten a heartfelt apology from him, but he did stop all contact with OW and now we’re on MC. We’re moving slowly towards recovery.
About 2 months after D-Day (10 days ago), I sent the OW’s H a message, told him what happened between his W and my H, hoping that any decision he makes after getting the information will be the best for him or his marriage. I didn’t hear anything back from him, so I don’t know if he got the message or not. I honestly do not expect any communication with him, I just thought he has the right to know the truth. I know 2 months after D-day was a little late to tell him about the EA, but maybe it’s one of those things that’s better coming late than never? I’m not sure, but I do know, I’d rather have the truth than being in the dark.
Deeper Thought- Thanks for your reply. I feel that I personally would like an apology from the OW. She used to be a friend. Or maybe just clarification as to where she is at re: her actions and if she has even acknowledged her own actions in this entire situation. If she does not want to apologize, I will accept it. I feel that I need to know either way.
My husband had apologized repeatedly, owned his behaviors and is making efforts to move our marriage forward. He even mentioned apologizing the OW spouse. Who also used to be our friend. I am going to strongly encourage my husband to apologize. This way the OW spouse will truly know the extent of his wife’s actions. I truly believe if you are adult enough to have an EA, you should be adult enough to own your behaviors to all involved. Hope this makes sense.
I do understand your point, DE. The difference in my situation is that I think both my H and his EA partner are immature. The OW manipulated me and my H, pretended to be a friend just to get to my H. I could see that from a mile away but my H was naively thinking it was a real, normal friendship. It seemed to me that he thought he wanted the friendship when in fact he just liked the ego boost from her. Even after D-day, he still thinks that EA was not a big deal, he said sorry few times but that’s about it. He did stop any contacts with her and trying to make it up to me. I appreciate he’s doing that, though I wish he’d do more.
I’m on my way to recover but far from healing. Apology from the OW (or from my H to the OW’s spouse) is not my biggest concern right now as I’m working on my own recovery and healing, also rebuilding trust in our marriage. I would rather keep her off my life and my mind. I don’t know if it would make me feel any better if she ever apologized. I’d like to think it makes no difference because the last thing I want is to have anything to do with her ever again. My life was perfectly fine before she came along. I was a very positive, happy person before the EA. Now I’m good enough with just being a “somewhat happy” person. The thought of running into her is like a nightmare. We live in different parts of the same city, so I’m praying that I will never have to be in the area where I might see her in person.
I admire that your H took responsibility for his actions and apologized to you and the OW’s spouse. I think it’s one of the very good steps to fix the damage. I can see it brought some peace of mind for you. I might come for me one day, but I don’t count on it. I’m working on what I can do to get myself in a better place.
Hi DE,
I think I’m confused on the idea of the AP apologizing to the spouse. Here is my feelings.
I’ve had the OW apology shortly after DDay…. to me it was a joke even if she was remorseful or not. It was 3 months after the truth came out and I was emotionally all over the place and trying to pick up the piece. I didn’t accept her apology and actually told her that she didn’t have any idea what she was apologizing for. I even asked her What’s there to be sorry for? Having sex with my H? Getting caught? Destroying a family? I really let her know that she wasted all those years and created lies for what? Love? She even told me she didn’t know if she had feelings for my H. Just a cluster **** of garbage.
If she apologized today, I wouldn’t accept it either because how I see it is…. Is she going to pay my son’s medical bills from all 4 hospitalizations because of suicide attempts? Is she going to pay for 3 years of therapy sessions for my children, me and my H? There is no reason for her to ever have any contact with my family, children, me or especially my H. Her best apology is to stay far away.
I do have so many issues with any AP wanting to apologize only because I can’t see it as sincere nor do I think any contact makes closure. I’ve been lied to from my H and the OW and to me…. both are culprits in this saga. At least my H understands the consequences and is working on himself and our marriage. I don’t think I’ll know everything that happened in my H’s 16-17 year affair and I have to accept that I won’t. Why would I even want her side of the story either? It’s all lies that come out. I also know in my healing journey I still hate her, I’m still angry at her, and I don’t want to hear an apology when after the words “I’m sorry “ pops out other justification and excuses. (Yes, that’s happened)
I’m a firm believer of the no contact rule. This boundary is put there for reason.
Look I’ve read so many articles about how the OW feels and yet. I still don’t care, I don’t want apology from her, I want her to remain out of my family’s life and if she wants to sniff around I’m okay with getting a lawyer to sue for inflicting pain and alienation of affection…. just no contact is the best solution.
I was married for 20 years. I had noticed my scum bag liar cheater 55-year-old husband had been different in the past few months. I knew he was cheating. I when through this 10 years ago. I found out he was cheating with a neighbor. He swears he didn’t have sex with her. They were just talking, but now I think he told me that so I could forgive him. And I did. I forgave him never forgot. We never talked about it, every time I brought it up, he would get mad. So, I would just let it go. So, here I am 10 years later I saw the same signs. Distant, unattached, telling me he didn’t want to be married anymore. That minute I knew he had someone else. I asked him he said NO. In million ways he told me NO. Come to find out he had been having unprotected sex with a married coworker. Apparently, she’s a body builder that looks like a man. I was shocked to find this out how could he do this to me again. When I asked him why he said he wanted someone new. Not that I was a bad wife. Till the day I found out all this. Everyday texting me letting me know how much he loved me. Even the day he was at a roach motel with her he texts me telling me to have a good day sweetheart. How could he. All this happened on Easter Sunday. I moved out. Divorce most definitely. I’m so hurt. We didn’t have the perfect marriage, but we were perfect for each other. So, I thought. I feel I’m damage goods. I wonder if he will ever regret what he lost. Ok let me tell you what he lost. A great family, grandkids, a beautiful home, money in the bank, stability, a loving wife. That would have taking care of him till his last breath.!!!!! ;(
A bitter pill for me would be the fact that after dealing with DDay and the affair recovery, the crisis felt like it was sucking the life out of me and the more I cried and suffered, the less my h cared for me……tables are now turned, he is no longer involved with the harlot (or so he says) and I’m the one who doesn’t care much for him now…..I feel like we are on autopilot and I just can’t muster the feelings of love and devotion I used to have for him…..I still felt butterflies in my stomach for my h even after 30 years together……now? I mostly feel irritated around him…..
It’s been a wild ride to say the least. It’s been 4 years since D-day and, like others have posted, it’s not something I will just “get over”. I’ve never really gotten any details and that will always haunt me. The one myth that I always believed before? IT CAN’T HAPPEN TO ME!
My daughter gets married two weeks from today. I pray daily that she and her husband will never experience the pain and sadness of an affair. I look at them and see my wife & me. An affair? Never. That can’t happen. We are too much in love. We are meant for happily ever after.
I know that, no matter how much you invest into your marriage, bad things happen. Both spouses have to be fully invested. We just celebrated our 25th anniversary. We were talking about the affair that day (I know, odd to talk about the worst part of our marriage). I showed my wife a screen shot of a text exchange from right after D-day. It was not flattering for her. She said, “wow, I was awful and a real b*tch to you. I said, yes you were. Then, I said that the easy thing would have been to just give up. I told her she should have known how stubborn I was. I told her that I knew who she was and had been since the first day I met her. I wasn’t going to let her off easy and quit on us. I knew the girl who I fell in love with was in there somewhere. We just had to ride out the storm until she came back. Was it as soon as I’d hoped? God, no. She sent me through hell and back. But she works every day to build back trust, love, friendship. Will her affair be the defining moment of our marriage? It could have been but that’s what we work on every day.
Our marriage will survive. It will grow. And, hopefully, my children’s marriages will never know the destruction of an affair.
Hello,
I would like to start a discussion on how to protect your finances after the BS returns to the marriage. My CH did some really hurtful things during the affair during the divorce process financially. Even though now he has returned to the marriage and showed some positive changes, the underlying personality is such selfishness and narrow mindedness, I cannot trust him would properly protect the financial interest of our two kids if our marriage runs into problems again. We have agreed to put some measures into place now so that the kids are well protected no matter what happens.
Just a little background, we were together starting at a young age and built everything together. We did not come from rich families but we built a comfortable life together. I did not stop working full time with the two kids and have always earned a comparable salary to his except for the two years when he had the A. I was always supportive and instrumental to his career path. I was his backup when he decided to switch major in grad school. I was instrumental in getting his grad school offer and financial aid. We were also prepared for me to support him through his studies if he did not get aid but he did in the last minute. His first job after graduation was referred to by me. I moved with him when he made a major career move without any questions asked. When we started to accumulate a little bit of money, I also let him to send a significant chunk back to his family without asking any questions – I always felt maximizing a family’s overall financial gain is the right thing to do. I never thought in terms of “me “, always thinking about “we”. He had two good years income wise but that was also the time his ego went into overdrive and found someone who was very low in every aspect to get his ego validated. The OW would be the type of person that men would be ashamed to bring to social occasions as the other party. He has lost his job due to the A and now earns a fraction of what he used to do.
We are thinking about working out a partition agreement with lawyers. The main goal is to split up our existing assets, plus put in terms on how to split things financially should we ever divorce. I’m also thinking about having him sign over his life insurance to our kids as irrevocable beneficiaries. Questions to discuss:
– Have you ever taken any steps to protect yourself and kids financially after the A?
– What are the tools/steps available that are legally binding and irrevocable?
– what would be a fair split of assets (70/30? 80/20 in your view?) I feel I deserve more because I was the one who drove the direction we were going throughout the years, he was extremely passive and did not want anything in life. We have significant savings because we were living under our means which was his wish and I cooperated with him on that. I also will shoulder the majority of the childcare responsibilities with divorce which will limit my future earning power.
– what other factors/aspects should I be thinking about that I have missed.
– If we stay in the marriage a few more years then split, how do I protect the earnings during these years if he continues to earn a fraction of his old salary? If he has another affair in the future, and the result is divorce for sure, is there any way to condition the terms on whether the reason for divorce is due to another affair or not?
Thank you all for your input.
Great question. I felt very ill prepared financially when DD hit. I still am unprepared if it happens again. Has anyone started secret saving post DD? If so how are you doing it?
I expressed my concern about financial security after DD and he said that if it happened again I could have it all, house, pension and any inheritance. I know that was just to appease me and that in the battle of DD2, when I would definitely walk and not go through the trauma again, he would not honour that statement.
@who knows, maybe there’s some form of post nuptial on division of assets should divorce occur due to infidelity?
Is there anyone who has had something similar drawn up?
Hi, everybody. I wanted to check in after months of nothing from me.
I have been concentrating on working on my stuff (polite word) with my wayward spouse. After some EMDR I felt ready to engage more in talking directly with my wife about our marriage issues. The therapy really helped, and triggers have been far less (almost nonexist) and far less intense.
But this brings up more problems. Now that I am engaging more, it brings more painful issues to the surface. Sometimes my wife says things that hurt terribly. Once she said that she doubted my forgiveness, which put me in depression for a long time. She does not seem to understand that forgiveness does not mean no more negative feelings.
Overall, doing better. More positive feelings in my life about my marriage, and about life in general. But there will always, I think, be some dips in the road.
Hi NN–I am so happy to hear you are doing well. Also with regards to your wife’s statement. Many people hear what they want to hear and judge words by their own beliefs and values.
Words like forgiveness, love, etc are individually subjective. Are you certain your idea of forgiveness is the same as hers? Maybe ask her what her idea of forgiveness is before you take it personally and let that statement hurt you feelings? I don’t know. I know I was very sensitive too about anything he would say and would take it as he was ambivalent about being in the marriage. When really he was just saying stuff.
I guess what I’m hoping for you is to be careful and not take her words personally. Dig a little deeper about what she’s saying.
Yeah and thanks for the response. Yes I’m aware she does not see forgiveness exactly as I do. My problem is more in the area of having lack-of-safety feelings that are not completely rational. She says something and I take it COMPLETELY personally. And I rationally know I’m being stupid, but I’m locked into feelings that I just have to ride out. Maybe this makes sense, maybe not
NN, I know where you are coming from. I would not say you are “being stupid”. Your feelings are valid. And from my experience it is traumatic being cheating on and has a lasting effect no matter how great the wayward is and how much work you do. I explain it to my husband that I know things from an intellectual perspective but the “feelings” I have at times are in my gut or instinctual. I think for us communicating and me being very direct with what I need from him has been helpful. I also tell him when he does or says something that I like or don’t like. I decided after dday one of my key expectations of our relationship is that we have strong open communication. My husband and I talked about being authentic and transparent. Our entire relationship has changed. And the other thing is this takes a long time. We have gone over certain topics/points over and over almost hashing it out. When we talk about forgiveness my husband knows I will never be okay with anything he did or any decision he made but he has taken 100% responsibility so I have forgiven him. That does not mean we never talk about it. Actually the opposite we talk about it more often than i ever thought.
And the feeling that after engaging more brings more pain to the surface happened to us/me. My therapist helped me through this a lot. My therapist sees that all the time. It is easy to put on a somewhat hard exterior and not be vulnerable. That way you protect yourself from getting hurt. Once you start to be more vulnerable it is scary, unknown, reminiscent of pre dday etc. My therapist said that was really the post important part of our work and the final step. It was really hard and some time I still close up. My husband and I have talked about it a lot and what I need to not be so guarded all with the urging/support of my therapist. My therapist basically told me I was ready and I needed to decide if I was going to move forward otherwise sometimes it is not worth continuing in a relationship if you cannot be vulnerable. Without being vulnerable it is hard to fully love or have a deeper relationship without that risk of hurt.
It’s been 1.6 years since Dday. Yesterday I found a coffee card in my husband’s bedside table. It was for the coffee place he used to meet his AP at everyday at work. I had a look at his work emails and found a bunch of meeting appointments disguised as a customer meeting with just the two of them going up to July last year. That means they continued to meet up 6 months after D day. I don’t actually think they talk anymore. She has a boyfriend and seems happy so why would she bother with an older married dude? But why would he keep that stupid coffee card? I’m really upset about this.
Thoughts?
You are totally right to be upset at this. He has been hiding things from you (AGAIN!) But talk to him first you need to know exactly what is going on. Watch out for gaslighting (not sure if he’s the kind of guy to do that). I’m kind of angry for you right now, so maybe others have more level headed advice for you
NN. It makes total sense. It takes a while to put rational thinking back in place after betrayal. And it doesn’t help she continues to keep secrets from you i.e. who was the AP?
NN,
I could be called petty and immature, but I have deleted pictures, addresses and texts from my husband’s phone when I have felt triggered by them, so, had I found that card, I would’ve shredded it to pieces and dared him to complain about it…..why in the everloving green earth would he want to keep a reminder of a place where he betrayed you? Aren’t his memories enough for him? I am kind of militant in my attitude, especially after DDay and I have told my husband a million times that this is the only affair he will ever have, because if I even SMELL any evidence of ANYTHING untoward happening, I will leave so fast that his head will spin around….and for a man to have an affair, one of the participants has to be married for it to be called an affair, so, he won’t be married to ME to have another affair…. like they say in the streets:”homie don’t play like that”…..stand your ground and he better start making the right choices, you are no doormat for him to step all over…..
Oops! I meant to address this to Struggle Street, not NN…..my apologies….
Kittypone,
no problem. I appreciated your words anyway
I don’t want him to know I checked his computer so I don’t want to directly confront him. I want to keep some channels open that he wouldn’t expect me to review, otherwise he will be sure to delete anything he doesn’t want me to see. I obviously do not trust him. His AP was a girl he worked with, though she changed jobs last August. Really he should have changed jobs and that still drives me crazy. Now that I know the name of their regular cafe I can check his private spending to see if he still goes there. But to keep the coffee card? Ugh
The night before dday and the months following I took screen shots, photos or copies of everything. I wanted to have documentation. I still have all of it. I feel like it was critical. After 10+ years of gaslighting it was what I needed to do. I did not sit and look at the information but felt it was proof/documentation when confronting him and also if I proceeded with divorce/child custody. And I think it is smart to not tell him if you are gathering information still. Once you are ready to confront him you will have what you need. AT a certain point I was done looking but that was more based on his behavior improving.
Hi: although my husband and I are working on things, we no longer live together. It’s not my choice and I have a really hard time with it. I live in a small town and have run into his (former) AP in town a number of times. She’s a married woman and her husband has no idea that she was sleeping with my husband. Has anyone struggled with not telling the other spouse? He’s a nice man. I feel bad for him that he is the only one that doesn’t know and on difficult days, it feels very unfair that she gets to go on with her life as if nothing happened while everything about my life and my children’s is in complete shambles. How do you cope with this? 8 months since d-day.