It’s time to discuss what’s going on and share your struggles – and your successes.


By Linda & Doug

It’s been a few months since our last Open Mic.  So, let’s do it!

In case you didn’t know, or are new to our site, the Open Mic discussion is where you guys call the shots and discuss the topics that you want to discuss.

We know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.  

We appreciate it as it not only helps to share and get the input from others, but it also helps us with possible issues to address in future posts.  Thanks!

With that said, the floor is all yours!

Feel free to discuss anything…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • What are you struggling with?
  • Have any success stories to share? Big or small. (We especially want to hear some of these!)
  • Wanna share any lessons you’ve learned recently?
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What’s your favorite movie of all time?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
  • Tell us a little about yourself.
  • Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!
See also  Discussion - The Thoughts and Behaviors that Make a Person Vulnerable to an Affair

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.  And please reply to each other in the comments, as each person leaving a comment is not an isolated incident.


Linda & Doug




    40 replies to "Open ‘Mic” Discussion #43 – What’s On Your Mind?"

    • Anna

      I’m new to the group and not sure if I am posting to an old open mic or a new one. Here is my story. My husband and I have been married 29 years, I would describe our relationship as happy, healthy and best of friends. Our only issue has been when he drinks hard liquor. Off and on throughout the years, I have to remind him hard liquor is not his friend! Other than that we enjoy the same activities, love to travel, play golf and get along great. My husband owned an engineering practice, a resort facility which included a restaurant, boutique hotel and had other business interests. He is also a very generous man. The time came to transition from his practice and he wanted to spend more time at our vacation property playing golf. Then in 2005 our managers left the resort facility which left my husband and I to take care of the business. He was more involved than me. There was a time when I was suspect of a female bartender. She would flash her fake breast at the bar for tips, rather classless, not to mention pretty unattractive. My husband denied anything. A few months after working there, we received a great offer and sold the facility. This was early 2006.

      So, this November my husband confessed to having a two time physical encounter with this woman. Yes, 15 years later! He told me one night he was at the restaurant and they were closing up early. Everyone left expect the female bartender. He said they both had a couple of drinks and she unzipped his pants and gave him oral sex. The second time it happened, she showed up at the hotel on site and with drinks in her hands. He invited her in and he said she removed her clothes and the same thing happened. No foreplay, hugs, kisses, affection or sexual intercourse. My husband is ashamed, remorseful, can’t imagine why he would do what he did other than his ego got in the way. He has been willing to do whatever it takes to make our marriage work. While he might be financially successful, he has insecurities and well aware of this issue. I always saw him as confident but, apparently he isn’t. We have been to therapy and our therapist has talked to us individually as well as together. She has given me her assessment and said he is truly remorseful, ashamed and regretful. That this was a meaningless two time off situation which involved alcohol, his ego and poor judgement and boundaries. She also said that the female bartender’s action were not that of someone wanting a relationship but, was looking for something more in the way of financial gain. Perhaps, she thought my husband would hire her to replace the manager that left, maybe she intended to later claim sexual harassment for a settlement or had her hand in the cookie jar and wanted to make sure she could continue filling the coffers. My husband also was told separately by the therapist and then the two of us together. Given the fact that my husband has always been a very honest man of integrity, what occurred is not of his character. He never gave any thought as to why a woman would do what she without something else in mind. Recently, my husband told me he had to be out of his mind to have done such a foolish thing. We are working through this but, none the less it has been painful. He has accepted full responsibility for his actions and said he will absolutely not blame alcohol for his unacceptable behavior.

      I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this. Has anyone else ever been in a situation like this? What kind of woman does this??? Please help me out here.



      • Seenthelight

        Anna, Asking what is wrong with a woman like this is not your problem. Your concern should be with a spouse that does this with someone and goes for years pretending he’s been a faithful spouse when he wasn’t. My ex went for 24 years pretending he’d never had an affair when he finally told me. He acted like he was remorseful and wanted our marriage. You say your husband has integrity, I felt mine did too. Integrity is doing the right thing no matter what the circumstances. Neither of our spouses did this when they were cheating or in setting things right (as much as is possible after cheating) after they cheated. In my case, the lack of integrity colored everything in our life together. He had no intentions of being totally honest or working on himself, since it had been so long since he did it and hadn’t done it again he figured he’d proven himself. The lying and pretending to be a faithful husband was suppose to be a wash as far as he was concerned. For me that was not acceptable, anyone who could pretend to be someone they weren’t/aren’t, have no problem with lying all the time, I realized I didn’t even know him. After couples therapy and therapy alone with two different therapists I got the picture. He wanted to stay married and everything to still remain the same, but had no intention of doing any work. After a year and a half I saw no change and divorced him. I wasted a lot of years with him and thought it would be very hard to go it alone, but it was the right thing for me. Having a life that I’m sure Is honest and above board for the last 6-1/2 years has been a big relief for me.

        • Leigh Ann

          It’s very confusing for me. I don’t understand how they can feel good about themselves and that’s just it, they don’t. We are working with a therapist that takes a nonsense approach. He’s an empty man and suffers from alcoholism. High functioning and has struggled. That’s his struggle, not mine. I’m very hurt and can’t imagine how he would feel if we reversed roles! Thank you for your input.

    • Wendy S Bornstein

      My wayward spouse is passive aggressive and only responds to my needs when I am at the brink of taking action. He tries to control the narrative and claim victimization. Up to this point I have worked hard to stay connected as we are in process of selling our family home. This will change once we close in 2 weeks. The EmpowerME training has been very helpful and I would love a monthly refresher. I am reading The Passion Trap as mentioned on your post last week and it is quite helpful.

    • Eve

      Hi everyone…. I am a very heart-broken woman.
      I first found out about my husband’s infidelity about 16 months ago when the affair partner contacted me to inform me about the affair. This was a one-night affair but they had been communicating for a few months prior to this happening.
      As if this wasn’t bad enough, I later discovered another affair, this time, a long-term affair that had been going on for over 2 years with another woman. I discovered this when I went through my husband’s email (finally, after almost 9 years of marriage at the time). I am not the type who goes through her spouse’s email or phone, but after the first discovery, I decided to do that & this is what I found out. Hotel reservations, flight tickets & a few personal emails between them.
      I have decided to stick on with the marriage solely because of my 2 young children. My husband has been doing a whole lot to show his remorse & dedication to our marriage but I still sometimes feel like I’m foolish to want to remain in the marriage. I still harbour the fear that this might happen again future & the trust is gone.
      Please, I need advice.

      • Why is she crazy

        Eve – I have lived this. Just one affair though and I’m also not the jealous snooping wife but his behavior was off. Let me tell you it was a long road to recovery for us. I too chose to stick it out. It was hard and sometimes I questioned my decision but we are better than ever, better than before the affair. The trick is to love yourself. Realize the true gem you are. Do things for yourself that make YOU feel confident. The happiness you create will radiate and he can either jump on board or not. You can’t make him be faithful. You can only make yourself confident enough to say “your loss” if he takes advantage of your forgiveness or does something stupid.. I went through several months of therapy after the discovery and this was THE BEST advice I was given.

        • Eve

          Thanks a lot for your advice & kind words. It’s good to know I’m not crazy or something. I’ll follow your advice.
          Thank you

    • Missy

      I found out 13 months ago that my husband had an emotional affair with my next door neighbor for months before. During that time he was so abusive to me in every way. For the last few months he has really been working on us. He is genuinely sorry for what happened. Then lately he seems to have just snapped back into this guy I only knew during the affair. I just started trusting him a bit more but now he is lashing out at me when I bring up the affair. (This usually happens when ow next door comes out of her hole into her yard. I can’t get away from it so it triggers me and I ask questions.) I can’t understand why he has regressed. He says he hates her and I’m pretty certain she didn’t stick her claws into him again. Why is he like this again? And how can I trust him when he’s like that?

    • Jennet

      Hi I’m l6 months since DD and for the most part I’ve stopped asking questions now as I’m not that interested in the details as I got them from the beginning all that I wanted to know anyway I just felt you can have too much information going around in your head. It’s enough to know that the person that you totally trusted betrayed you in the worst way possible. After 51 years together it’s been the hardest thing to accept and forgive. Trust not there yet. My main issue is intimacy it’s very scarce and I usually have to initiate any love making this upsets me greatly, I feel as though that side of my life has finished and I’m not ready for that. He suffers from ED occasionally which he has done over the years mainly due to stresd/work but obviously not with the OW seemed to work OK then not really sure of the reasons now as he won’t talk about it, although I have persuaded him to see his doctor for a check up. So I suppose that’s a start. I think guilt and shame have a lot to do with it. He did say the other day that ‘he could never forgive himself for what he has done to me’ I feel he has true remorse for what he did. Doesn’t change the fact that I’ve turned into some sort of paranoid, suspicious nut job which I certainly wasn’t before.
      And as the OW was a so called fried I saw her from a distance the other day and I felt absolutely nothing so I think that is an achievement as before I would have been a shaking angry wreck. So maybe time does heal and things get better. I look back on our life together and it’s been good, happy so I’m not going to let this ruin the rest of my life that’s for sure..good luck to you all jennet

    • Why is she crazy

      Found out about affair almost 1 year ago. We are doing great. However the OW refuses to take “it’s over” for an answer. She has literally left things on his truck. Gone to his work. Left flowers for him on our curb and driven by our house. We had to get rid of all of our social media accounts because of her. Husband changed his phone number and emails. She is still pursuing him. Going as far as to record messages for him on her social media accounts hoping he’d check up on her (a friend of mine on Facebook is friends with her and gave me a heads up). She even went as far as to break into his air BNB account to see if he’s on any trips with me. She believes they are twin flames and meant to be together and she divorced her husband for him and expects him to divorce me. She even told her kids that he is their new stepdad and at one point used his last name. We are in stalking territory here but I can’t do anything about it according to the law in my state since it hasn’t crossed certain boundaries. But I will be honest I am scared. Any suggestions?!?

      • Jennifer

        Get a restraining order against her!! She is threatening you with her behavior!!

    • Kittypone

      Well….it’s been 4 years since DD for me, and even after all the therapy, couples counseling, mentoring, coaching and all that, I just plain stopped loving him. I don’t trust him anymore, any speck of respect for him disappeared into thin air, and I don’t even initiate intimacy anymore. Yesterday was our 32 wedding anniversary and I did not even remember it until he mentioned it around noon!!! He claims that I am only waiting for a big fight or something just to call the marriage off and I can’t quite deny it as a lie, either…..can someone tell me if I am an exception to the rule? I am the betrayed spouse and because I don’t believe ANYTHING he says, I set up a social media account so I could stalk the harlot he was involved with, to see if she hints at being together with him again (she doesn’t know this is really me) and here and there I see her posting things that hint at her not having forgotten him yet…..she is married with young kids and NEVER posts anything about her and husband, no pictures, no stories, no nothing…..everything is about her and her selfies….I don’t feel angry anymore, more like irritated, I just don’t want to be taken for a fool anymore which is why I follow this harlot since I can’t believe anything my husband says anymore…….I AM considering divorce and even started filling paperwork for it, I haven’t filed anything yet giving my h a chance to redeem himself (not that he’s doing an awesome job of it) so……any words of wisdom, anyone?

    • Jennet

      Hi kitty pone, I feel for you this is so hard but I think you have to a cept what’s happened and start thinking about what you want out of your relationship. Checking up. On her only hurts you no one else. You can’t control them only yourself.
      I never thought I’d ever get to a good place again and I have not everyday but most days it’s a roller-coaster ride like no other.
      Do things for yourself. I walked miles every day to clear my head and it works not only that you get fitter and slimmer and that makes you feel so much better about yourself. Educate yourself on infidelity I’ve read and listen to so much stuff and the best I’ve found is this site and also Andrew G. Marshall he is fantastic tells it like it is and helps make sense of everything.
      I think what kept me going was my family friends but mostly my love for my husband if 51 years you can’t let this heartbreak take away all those years of good, happy memories. She will never have them she might have had a small part of him for a short while but she hasn’t got him now.
      Whatever happens I will get through whatever life throws at me. And you will too look after yourself and be the best person you can. Take care jennet

    • Debi

      I would like to know if anyone has tried Ketamine treatments and if they helped. I did my second one with my psychiatrist yesterday. It is helping me with depression and anxiety but it seems to wear off after a couple days. My D-day was almost 6 years ago. I filed for divorce when it became obvious that he would never leave his emotional affair partner. Ended up not divorcing but have been on the roller coaster from hell. Healing attempts have not been consistent, he still defends things in a conversation that suddenly takes a turn and he tries to defend something he has previously admitted was very wrong and he had given a one word “sorry” apology. I don’t feel true repentance from him.
      So, because I can’t seem to be not codependent and because I still love him, I have been on multiple antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications for 6 years. I read about this method that has helped a lot of people that are otherwise difficult to treat and have severe, chronic depression/anxiety. Ketamine has been FDA approved for many years as a “pre-anesthetic drug. It has not been FDA approved to treat depression/anxiety but there are a lot of studies that are positive and and statistically significant numbers that this does help a lot people (at a much lower dose than anesthesia). After my first treatment, I felt like I had been happy for the first time in 5 years. My husband asks: “what are you happy about?” I paused to try to explain. Then, I realized I wasn’t really happy – I just wasn’t sad for the first time in 6 years! That is something to be happy about. Then, I realized what had slowly become my “normal” , I understood why my family is so concerned for me. The next day I was still “not sad or anxious”. Day three, my husband said he doesn’t need to explain why he’s working late. BAM! Sad again.
      My self care is so much better the day of/after my treatment. It is supposed to take 3-4 weeks to be more permanent. I want to ask if anyone has had the full 3-4 weeks of therapy and if they have long term relief from their depression and/or anxiety?

    • PS

      Thoughts on affairs in the time of covid19 stress?

    • Robyn

      It has been 9 months since my husband of 39 years contacted his mistress (she is still with her husband). She on the other hand has tried to contact my husband, as little as four months ago. I have struggled constantly with triggers, as the OW lives close by (small town) I thought I knew this woman before the affair began and butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth, now I know what she is really like! She has even gone so far as to threaten me at different intervals and after the affair ceased. My husband has given up his mobile phone, I have consent to access his email and facebook, he also by his own choice does not go out anywhere! He no longer engages as he used to do with our Sons (who caught him in our bed with his Mistress the first night they slept together! – Horrific! – My husband had sent me away on a holiday!) nor with our grandchildren He is open to discussion to a point, will not discuss her and he has told her husband he will not disparage her! He feels that to tell all would only add to my hurt and he doesn’t want to do that. I have continually gone to counselling, my husband stopped some time ago and feels he is able to manage his ‘Mind Set’ issues himself, he believes that all the literature I read to better equip my self in dealing with my own issues regarding the affair only makes me vulnerable and sensitive to his affair and my capacity to trust him again! Recently it was our 39th Wedding Anniversary and I would like to share a letter my husband wrote to me and placed in our Anniversary Card – Even though I have always worn my heart on my sleeve and still do, and my husband does know I do want to continue being his life partner – one paragraph made me catch my breath! This has thrown doubt on what he says he really wants? My Husbands letter

      My spoken word doesn’t hold water. understandably……
      I don’t have an expectation that my written word is worth any more to you, but I will continue…..
      You never know how life will turn out. Not in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine my life would turn out the way it has. This life, in the majority, the very best of living, has been given to me by You! Sadly, I have let you down and given you the worst of times.
      I know you love me. I know you care for me. I know you want me. I know you would do anything for me, all I need do is ask. Even after all this time I still try to resolve stuff in myself. I believe I can do that but at times I resolve it by turning the wrong way and not ‘Spilling the beans’ before doing the wrong thing. Fears, doubts, wants, needs along the way have to be defined along the way, but through being me, I have failed to do this and up to a point let things evolve to a degree y itself. Now, Talks, Guilt, Sorrow, things I have done that I cannot undo. What is said out aloud, feeds both our fears. Your fears of what I have done and I believe this will go on…. I start to think are yo better off without me? (For your well being) I believe we are about to start a new life together exciting challenges that we can share. I will try o keep talking to you about what ever issues worry, cause concern etc, but there will be no doubt times when I still ‘Clam Up’. When his happens, at the very least, I will still let you know the core reason for unsaid issues. I am going to be there for you because that is what I want. I am reluctant most of the time to use words or phrases that probably re-assure you as I’m not comfortable with the thoughts and concerns you have. I am with you. I am going where you go! No Where Else! Happy Anniversary, My Life, My Wife!

      Whilst I do acknowledge the positives, I do have fears and confusion at some parts of the letter. I would appreciate other perspectives, especially from Unfaithful Spouses!!!!

      • BoundaryBuilder

        Hello Robyn:
        While I’m not an unfaithful spouse, I see you haven’t gotten any feedback so I’m willing to give it a try. I was hoping someone else would tackle this because I have a tendency to be snarky, which may not be that helpful here. For what it’s worth, here goes:
        Robyn, that letter is a huge heaping helping of word salad. No wonder you’re confused! How much more healing a simple heartfelt statement would have been – “I’m so sorry I did this to you. I will do whatever it takes to make things right, to heal our marriage. I love you.” True remorse is what’s needed in this situation. I agree the overall tone of the letter could be construed as “positive.” BUT there’s a thinly veiled intent here all about “talks, guilt, sorrow.” I feel like this convoluted word salad letter is all about HIM (I can’t believe this is MY life, I know you love ME, I know you’d do anything for ME, I am going to be there for you because it is what I WANT, MY wife, etc.) and what he’s saying is that you should just get over it. What I read in this letter is he’s done talking. Now he wants to rug sweep the whole thing and wants you to move on already. He’s having a pity party ’cause “I am reluctant most of the time to use words or phrases that probably re-assure you as I’m not comfortable with the thoughts and concerns you have.” And “what is said out loud feeds both our fears.”
        In a nut shell, the problem is not what he did, the problem is your reaction to it! It’s only been 9 months since YOUR OWN CHILDREN CAUGHT HIM IN YOUR MARITAL BED WITH HER. But it’s clear he wants you (and your family?) to let him off the hook and avoid the subject. If you don’t rug sweep it, watch out “What is said out aloud, feeds both our fears. Your fears of what I have done and I believe this will go on…. I start to think are you better off without me? (For your well being).”
        Robyn, your preamble to his letter is telling.
        He doesn’t want to give you the true story because it will “add to your hurt.” I doubt this. The truth obviously makes him uncomfortable. And the true story of the affair will make him look bad. Robyn, knowing the true story and having a time line of the affair was crucial for me to even start to reconcile with my husband.
        Even though he isn’t invested in healing you or your marriage, he doesn’t want you to continue healing YOURSELF because the literature and counseling will help you to see behind his mask. And maybe give you the tools to impose consequences, or expect remorse.
        He won’t discuss her, won’t disparage her. Even though she THREATENED you on several occasions! She is in your lives because he invited her in. He should be defending YOU not her. Until he gets to the place where he’s willing to admit that a married woman who would do the deed with him in your marital bed is a POS healing your marriage will be difficult. But he can’t admit she’s a POS, because, therefore, he’s a POS also.
        Robyn, this is just my opinion. My opinion comes from my own experiences. My life is not yours. Here’s my two cents, which you are welcome to take or leave. Reconciliation after such a betrayal is a challenging proposition. Rug sweeping the whole thing won’t help you heal, and won’t be a solid foundation on which to rebuild your marriage. As uncomfortable as it makes him feel, true healing can only start from a place of true remorse. True remorse can only happen when he’s honest with himself (and you!) about what he did and why he did it. I hope this helps. My best hopes for you and your husband go out to you both.

    • Phoenix2020

      Oh, Why is She Crazy, you have my heart!
      I’ve lived something close to your horror. Our OW also divorced her husband for her perceived Soulmate/Twin Flame. She licensed herself in our state (from 1000 miles away), sold her home, came to our pretty much backwater corner of the PLANET and is now a daily consideration in our lives. We have installed cameras to capture the drive by events. We’ve locked down social media (as much as we know how), and we’ve been preemptive with select contacts she might sabotage (our children and our priest). Still, she is crazy enough to have upended her life for my husband.
      We do have documentation of her delusion to take to authorities if we need to do so, an we have installed cameras to watch all points of entry to our home.
      It’s a terrible way to need to live life. I am praying that is only a season…for you and for me

      • Why is she crazy

        Oh man thank you for this! Thought I was the only one! Keep telling my husband he dodged a bullet (so to speak). Now he and I just roll our eyes and laugh together because we think she’s is gone and she will pop up with some other crazy thing! We also have cameras and friends watching out for us which helps. Just knowing we aren’t the only ones with a crazy experience helps me personally feel better so thank you so much!

        • Phoenix2020

          A recent comment prompted me back to this thread, and I am curious as to how things are going for you. Is the crazy lady still pursuing?

          After continuing well into 2022 (electronically, US mail, and physically), we finally took the step to charge ours with harrassment. Her social media suggests that she is still crazy as ever, but the consequences of continuing to pursue got VERY real and she backed off…at least in the actionable ways.
          Have things settled down for you? Living scared truly sucks!

    • Nyca

      I am one month out from D-day. Our 35 anniversary is next month. When I discovered his two year (he swears no sex) emotional affair, his first comments were that I wasn’t as fun as she was, I couldn’t do the activities he likes with him like she does, that he has feelings for her and he wanted to separate. Nothing even close to an apology. I begged for counseling, we’ve been together for almost 40. He agreed but in both sessions was a total jerk, then said he wasn’t going back. He said we could do it better ourselves. But he isn’t even trying. He first said he wanted to try then said he thinks the marriage is over. Now he says he can’t live with me and one of us needs to move out. He suggested I go live with my sister 5 hours away. I told him I would just go buy a little condo in town, he doesn’t like that. He doesn’t want to tell our adult children, he doesn’t want me to tell my friends the entire story just a basic one. He only wants people to know we’ve drifted apart. He refuses to stop seeing her. He wants to separate but not divorce. One day he is kind, the next he says terrible hurtful things. The next he is depressed and acting the victim and sobs. He lies and When I call him out on them he goes ballistic and tries to blame me. I can’t keep up. For 3 1/2 weeks I held out hope because he said we had a chance and I didn’t want to throw away the future we had both planned. Now I just want out of the madhouse. I don’t recognize him. He is jerking me around and playing with my emotions. He’s lying to our sons and they know it too and it is hurting them. He told me if I hired an attorney he would “bury” me and I would get nothing. We are in the midst of selling our company and the proceeds go to a consulting company in his name, and then he says he will pay me. But I can’t trust him. He is destroying our entire family. He is killing my spirit. I am exhausted. I don’t know what to do.

      • Kittypone

        Hello, Nyca;
        Sarah P. would be the BEST one to advise you on this one. The first thing she would say is to lawyer up, as your H might be making moves to “bury “ you already. He is not showing any remorse, repentance or brokenness about his actions; why would you trust empty words? Why does he want YOU to move out? 5 hours AWAY? He is HIDING something he doesn’t want you to see or hear. Find out all you can about the affair partner, she might be a spouse poacher and want the life YOU have for herself…..he swears “no sex”? In TWO YEARS? Yeah, right…..he has lied about everything else, why would he be telling the truth on this very basic one? I smell a skunk long before I see it…..only you can decide if you want to repair your marriage or get out; but if he is not going to do his part of the work, you would be trying to repair what HE broke, and without accountability there is little you can do other than focusing on YOURSELF and how to heal and grow FOR YOURSELF. It seems there is money involved, LAWYER UP so you’re not left alone AND broke….. I also have been together with my h for 36 years, and even tho his affair is over (or so he says, he lost my trust long ago) he hasn’t really worked his ass off to try to win me back, so I have started filling out paperwork to file even though I haven’t completed the process, I have peace of mind knowing what steps to take if it comes down to that….our kids are grown also, so there would be no custody fight, but we don’t own a company together, you stand to lose a whole lot more than I do…..cry if you must, but cry all the way to the bank, sister! Not to the poor house!!

    • Phoenix2020

      Amen to that, Kittypone. LAWYER UP NOW!!!

    • Nyca

      Kitty and Phoenix, thank you. This may be weird to say but I could actually feel your power through the email. It so lifted me. Much appreciated. Yes, I have had a consultation with an attorney. She said that I am in a good position financially with assets and pensions. Except for the consulting and buyout proceeds. So I need to navigate in the short term. I am very fortunate compared to most and I empathize with them. The good news is our son is the one buying us out and he knows everything. And is livid with his father because he lied to him separately as well. So I know he will make sure that I am kept in the loop. It is the emotional abuse and emotional destruction that is the main concern. I am devastated and feel worthless, rejected and replaced. And yes, I paid $30 and signed up for one of those verify-type websites to investigate her. She’s been divorced three times the last two with local wealthy men 20 years older than her, declared bankruptcy once and currently shares ownership of a home in a lower valued area with her 87 year old father. With a mortgage 2/3 the value of the home. So yes, she is a gold digger – because one thing I know about him is he is very proud of the fact that we started with less than $1,000 38 years ago and we built a very successful company and he likes to brag. And they met at a bar when she was with her friends during a basketball playoff. So she was trolling because IMO what woman would go out and suffer through basketball in a bar. She’s been to our home when I was away at our vacation home and she knows about both of them. And that he is selling the company for millions. And I am sure during their long days of driving, every single terrible thing I have ever said to him. So she knows exactly what she needs to say and do to be the better choice for him. This maybe tmi, but. He swears they haven’t slept together because she won’t because he is “technically married”, which I am sure is why he is asking for a separation in the middle of a very long and complicated tax consequenced sale. He actually told me she was ‘classy’ and not that kind of person to sleep with a married man. I said, I’m sorry…but a woman who knowingly goes on multiple two-week road trips and spends the night alone in a condo with another woman’s husband does not fit my definition of classy. He said, you’re right. The first and only time he seemed to acknowledge it was wrong. It’s been five weeks of him shifting blame, making excuses and not really atoning for anything. Today I told him that I was tired of being the only one who is working on the marriage these past 5 weeks and I am exhausted. We both contributed to the state of our marriage the last part of 35 years, but his relationship for two years and what I can prove they made trips during covid in 2020 from her many, many, many Facebook posts documenting them…when I thought he was as he said he needed to just getting away to clear his head and disconnect – combined with his lack of remorse these past five weeks – I am done trying. If he wants to save the marriage he better up his game and show me, otherwise let me go and quit trying to control me. So after that he said, I want you to come home so we can try. So I am going to go home and “try” as long as it takes to get the information that I need to get a fair and reasonable settlement and then I am out. Goodbye to him and new life here I come. I have grieved the future life I thought I was going to have with him. I see that I can do it without him. And it will be a little lonely but so much happier. Thank you both. I wish you the best in your journeys and so, so appreciate your support and guidance. and thank you Doug and Linda for this site. It has been one of the lifelines to help me navigate this crazy maze. Aloha.

      • Kittypone

        Nyca; I am cheering you on!! That skank can have your sloppy seconds, she will never hold a candle to you AND your two-timing husband will get all he deserves for cheating!! What makes him so special that she wouldn’t squeeze him dry and leave him to hang? She is a spouse poacher and an envious woman, and whatever goes around, comes around right back!! Good luck with everything and may God bless you!!

    • BoundaryBuilder

      Nyca, I’m adding my voice to cheer you on. Best wishes for your new life without him, and good luck with the coming negotiations. Be sharp! Don’t only rely on you son to “keep you in the loop” – hope your lawyer is a pit bull!
      You husband sounds like a narcissist surfing though the standard narc channels of self-pity, rage and charm. Whatever channel he thinks will efficiently manipulate you in the moment. Your husband is also desperate to control the narrative to service his image management:
      Doesn’t want you to tell family or friends the truth. “We drifted apart” The nerve!!!
      Says he wants to “try”, along with half assed attempts at MC. He wanted to preload the “I tried so hard to save our marriage” narrative!
      He wants you to quietly disappear by moving far away, no divorce. Wants a “separation” (Ie: keep the marital funds intact). You conveniently disappearing also services the “we drifted apart” narrative. “See, she left ME” is easy to say when you’re miles away and aren’t around to refute.
      Wants you (and others?) to believe she is a “classy”, and he has the cajones to expect you to believe they’ve carried on a two year affair WITH MULTIPLE OVERNIGHT TRIPS w/o sex. WTF? I suspect his mental gymnastics around the AP’s character is also to pre-load his image control narrative “we were only friends before Nyca left me.” Wouldn’t be surprised if his plan is to magically produces AP to friends and family as a “new” friend that materialized AFTER your separation.
      Nyca, my alarm bells are ringing. Wouldn’t be surprised if he mounts a character assassination campaign against you when you don’t willingly fade away and do his bidding to support his image. The BS he’s putting you through post D Day is all about his image. So, you, by default, may need to be characterized as “crazy” “cold” “greedy” etc. etc. when things don’t go his way and his heinous behavior tarnishes the version of himself he wants to world to see. Gaaaah. I’m so sorry. Be strong! You can get out in front of his false narrative spinning if you’re prepared to do so. Don’t take the bait and act out if he attempts to push your buttons to get a “crazy” response. Once the cat is out of the bag and you’ve filed maybe let your lawyer do ALL the communicating? In the meantime, be calm and DETACH your emotions during any interactions with him. Again, best wishes and YOU CAN DO THIS!

      • Nyca

        Thank you so much. You have hit the nail on the head. After our first solo then joint sessions, the therapist emailed me and told me to look in to Dr Ramani – her books and YouTube channel. It was like she was talking directly to me. I used to be a strong and independent woman, how did I fall in to this hole? But as they say, the more you know the better you do, so yes I am keeping in a calm state and I have no trouble telling the ENTIRE story, complete with her name, to anyone who asked. Told my eldest today and he thanked me for respecting his 30 year old self enough to tell him the truth. So I am headed back to our home, our town, my friends, and if he can’t live with me then he can move out. And our little town is one where everyone seems to find out everyone else’s secrets so their images are going to get a little tarnished. At first I was worried about being humiliated when people found out, but I am already at rock bottom and humiliated. And he can say he tried to work and went to counseling but part of the narrative also includes the past 5 weeks. I told my eldest that I’ve tried, I am exhausted and I am at the point where even though I could forgive him for his part in our marriage not being perfect, and even if I thought I could forgive him for his affair (which I don’t think I can do), I absolutely can’t forgive him for the last 5 weeks because he knew he had already hurt me and added more knowing exactly what he was doing. My son agreed. So as much as I had hoped to be like Linda and Doug and be able to get through the affair and make our marriage even better, I know we are not going to be one of the successful couples. Thank you all for your comments and wisdom. I wish you all love, peace and happiness in the world and hope you get through to the other side where our new happy lives are waiting. Aloha.

    • BoundaryBuilder

      Thanks Nyca! Maybe I’m paranoid from spending so much time on infidelity support blogs (my own form of therapy :-), but for what it’s worth my internal alarm bells are ringing around your financial situation. Two years are a LONG LONG time for a gold digger to insinuate HER plans into your STBX’s (yes SOON TO BE EX say it with pride) playbook. When you file for divorce I suggest doing a forensic deep dive into ALL finances, both personal and business. As part of the divorce process your lawyer can subpoena financial records, and yes, even depose AP if needed. Any marital or business funds spent to support her? Gifts? At minimum, any spend on the affair can be added to your side of the tally sheet for reimbursement. Sorry if this sounds cold, but you need to take care of you. If as you suspect your STBX is a narcissist, it possible he could be hiding money and moving things around. Especially in the last five weeks and in the months to come. Hope my spider senses are wrong, but better safe than sorry. Hang in there!

    • BoundaryBuilder

      You’ve done nothing to feel humiliated about. You know the true story – he lied and cheated for TWO YEARS with a gold digging ho. Friends and family will rally round once the truth comes out. Those who want to remain neutral or take his side are NOT your friends to begin with. You can hold your head up with pride. NOTHING you did or didn’t do in your marriage is an excuse for him to treat you this way.
      I was thinking this morning about the sale of your business. Sorry if I’m perseverating on this but he did threaten you about money and made it VERY clear he doesn’t want you to seek legal representation. I know managing the emotional abuse is your main focus right now, and money should be low down on your priorities. BUT…. From your posts, it sounds like the business was a joint venture you built together? And he wants the proceeds of the sale to go into an account HE controls and THEN he will pay you? I’m not an accountant but something doesn’t sound right here. Maybe there’s a tax benefit to handling things this way now, but you will be divorcing him soon. In addition to legal representation maybe you should seek professional tax/accounting advice around the sale of the business taking into consideration long term divorce plans? Maybe a forensic look at the books is indicated as part of the business sale initiated by your son BEFORE the money is put in your husband’s name? Maybe this is already happening as a condition of the sale? I know you desperately want to trust and believe your husband. The possibility that he could steal from you AND your son is frightening. I wanted to believe and trust my husband also. It was a rude awakening for me to acknowledge that it was possible that a man who lied and cheated about infidelity could also steal from me. So, I did a deep dive into our finances just to be sure there weren’t any other secrets lurking in our marriage. Lucky me no financial abuse accompanied the emotional abuse. I hope the same for you. But the timing of your financial situation this feels suspect. And your STBX is willfully enmeshing himself with a known gold digger. He refuses to break it off with her. HIS needs are the priority. Again, I hope there’s nothing to find. But no harm in being forearmed with information just in case. My thoughts are with you during this time.

      • Nyca

        Thank you Boundary. Your words, support and insight mean more to me than you will ever know. I sense from your pairs that you are also working though a lot. Be brave and stay strong. I hope someone speaks the same truth to you that you have to me. It is so eye opening to read your words. A complete stranger with such perfect insight. I have friends, I have a sister, I have a therapist. But nothing hit home the way the words you and Kitty sent my way. I am more grateful than you will ever know. I have in place or will most everything that you suggested. I am not the meek,weak woman that I present here. I became that way after years of his emotional abuse but I remember now how strong I used to be. I am a warrior and I am slowly rising up. And it is very much thanks to you and your words to remind me who I used to be. . My heart is broken for everyone who has come seeking this website, we are all so devastated and I hope everyone finds someone like you to help them see it. And that you do too. . I am wishing you all the best in the world and I know you will get through this too. You are a smart cookie!! I know you will find happiness because you deserve it and are worthy of it. Much aloha.

        • Kittypone

          I so wish I had found this site immediately after DDay! This was my life line during those long, dark, heartbreaking, lonely days as H did not break up with the harlot as he promised he would do…..I wish I’d had access to people like the ones here to guide me and advise me, I would’ve been so much better off!! I would’ve avoided a couple of mistakes (like literally trying to murder him after listening to his sex tapes while speaking on the phone to his harlot; he didn’t know I was secretly taping him; I ended up staying for a week in a psych ward for homicidal intent) and a few other things I’m not proud of… thing I am completely clear headed about is that any love I still felt for him has basically disappeared and nothing is left……my heart has grown cold and icy and only my 4 month old grandson brings me a feeling of absolute joy and happiness…..don’t get me wrong, I am not depressed or suicidal, I just have closed my heart to my h and no longer if we make it or not….I was hoping we could’ve come out of this crisis stronger and better, but his lack of remorse and brokenness about the whole situation has shown me that he’s only hoping for time to cure all hurts without him having to actually work much (if at all) and I have just grown tired of his skinny ass not doing a whole lot to win me back, so, I have warned him time and again that I will only stay until I am fed up or fall in love with someone else (not that I am looking to do that, I am so disappointed in men in general, that I probably would be suspicious of any man that approached me). But, here’s my update if anyone cares about it. Thank you all for being the wonderful readers and advisers you are!!

    • Lost in thought

      My husband had an emotional affair 3 years ago. He has not given me a reason to question his remorse until yesterday. I have access to his Facebook and saw that a young lady at his work sent him a message saying thanks for the cookie… When he came home I asked who he gave the cookie to and he said that he had eaten it. I asked why he was lying and he said maybe it was because of how I’d react.
      I told him 3 years ago that lying to me was not an option in this marriage.
      It was a stupid thing to lie about. I didn’t and don’t think there is anything going on but, I don’t understand why he lied. This lady is young enough to be his daughter. He emotionally cheated with a woman 15 years his junior so I am sensitive when I see him interact with anyone that young.
      We have been together for over 30 years.

    • Doug

      A couple of good quotes I received via email yesterday:

      1. Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler Ross on how beautiful people are made:

      “The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen.”

      Source: Death: The Final Stage of Growth

      2. Author T.H. White on learning as a cure for sadness:

      “The best thing for being sad… is to learn something. That is the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honor trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then — to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting.”

      Source: The Once and Future King​

    • Alice

      Recently found this website and painfully helpful. My story. Husband had an EA affair with a work colleague for around 10 years. Worked with her for over 15 years and probably emotionally inappropriate for most of that time, difficult to say when it crossed the boundary to an EA. I have read about few EA lasting this long and would love to hear from others with this experience. I found out 2 years ago, he has had minimal contact with OW for 1 year but I am still devastated and reeling. An EA of a decade is so humiliating and seems to me it wasn’t simply a fling from an essentially ok marriage gone stale but something more. He says he wants to be with me, never considered leaving me – think he liked having his cake and eating it – but also admits that in many ways his OW was a far better emotional match and met his needs better than I did. They had a very powerful interpersonal chemistry and the degree of emotional familiarity and intimacy matured into almost like a married couple over time. Towards the latter end of EA he would try to suggest I behaved more like her (I was unaware of EA at this time) I still feel that gut wrenching visceral pain and anxiety at the thought he basically found a better version of me and wonder if I will ever get over the heartbreak or if our marriage can recover or if he really does want to be with me.

      It is complicated further that he said he didn’t realise his feelings for her were love or an EA even though what he describes is strong infatuation, excitement, strong chemistry and said she was like an addiction he couldn’t resist and needed a bigger fix from. Initially he compartmentalised it at work but over time started to gradually weave her into other aspects of his life. But thought this was just friendship . Their relationship wa a never physical in any way and although he found her physically attractive he has not desire for a sexual relationship. I don’t understand how they could have such a strong interpersonal attraction and chemistry yet realisation it was wrong or no desire to become physical. It makes me doubly myself at times and doesn’t make sense. My husband does have a lot of problems with emotional awareness, difficult childhood, emotionally neglected by his emotionally cold and brittle mother whom he still idol worships but can never please (OW shares a lot of similarities with his mother). I have had therapy because of my ongoing anxiety and pain and inability to get over this and basically told that it wasn’t me who needed therapy but him. Can anyone help or relate? I read so many stories of EA but they usually sound much more short lived or less complicated than my own situation

      Thank you

      • Seenthelight

        Alice, From my own experience, those of friends/relatives and people on this and other affair recovery sites, I would say that you are still being lied to. An EA that lasts so long with no PA? Very doubtful. You would be surprised how long cheaters can lie about their involvement with an AP. While they’re lying they’re acting insulted you would think such a thing of them. They can go for decades.

    • Jennet

      Hi Alice so sorry to hear you are in the same state as most of us on This site. I think your husband is lying to you about not having a physical affair as well as emotional it has gone on too long to be anything else. The trouble is they lie so well and we don’t always want to hear the truth but in the end you have to hear it otherwise you will never move forward with your life. If he as any respect for you he should tell you the truth. That way you can then decide what is best for you. A nd that is the main concern for all of us is to look after ourselves. You are goi ng to have some very dark days ahead this is something that doesn’t go away anytime soon. Educate yourself read, listen watch everything you can to try and understand what hS
      Has happened. Remember this is not your fault he made that choice and now has to help you get to grips with the total betrayal.
      I got a lot of help from A drew G Marshall books this web site and also save the marriage website.
      I am 18 months since discovery of my husband ‘s physical affair that had been going on for 4 years even now I have very dark days but on the whole things are improving it all just takes time.
      Look after yourself I wish you well Jennet

    • theresa

      can the WSs’ out there that have made more than one attempt talk about
      -being rebuffed when you have attempted to hook up for a one and done
      -when the AP ends the affair
      -when in an on again off again situation the AP says no more

    • theresa

      I like to play solitary on line. There are 2 ways to play. The free version tortures me with commercials. Most are other games to help keep your brain tuned up. I just noticed a new game. The cartoon shows a women ca thing her husband in the act. You are prompted to help her decide to either to stay or go. I haven’t played.
      This pissed me off.
      Infidelity has become commonplace. We are being bombarded with pictures of, movies about, online access to, tv shows about, billboard advertisements….
      Now it’s a game. It pisses me off. I did not have one nanosecond of fun while in the clutches of this nightmare. There are injuries that will last a lifetime. We, as a society, have become desensitized to this hurtfull act. Making a game out of infidelity trivializes this, wrong in every way, event.

      • Phoenix2020

        I agree. It is so insensitive and WRONG! I rarely watch TV anymore, and most movies (even some I loved before) are off limits. “Friends” make jokes….and on and on. It’s excruciating.

    • Why is she crazy

      Hi all 👋 I’m back – so here’s a weird one – it’s my husbands birthday this week and he’s out of town for work. But the OW does not know that and she used to make a big deal out of his birthday when they were an item. So I swear to god she followed me up the hill to my house after dropping my kids off at school earlier this week. Then I go to check the Mail and there’s a good luck white crystal (she’s a crystal healing dealer or whatever they are) in my mailbox. No envelope. No packaging. No note. She had legit driven by circled back and put it in. First off – ILLEGAL. Second – what on earth?!? I’ve already posted on this forum that she’s still hung up on my husband but this beyond. He hasn’t had contact with her in over a year. She just can’t seem to let go. Y’all have any ideas here 😬

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