It’s been a while since our last open mic discussion – where you guys discuss the topics that are most important to you.
This is Open Mic #22 and we know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.
Anyways, the floor is all yours!
Feel free to discuss anything…
- What’s on your mind?
- Have any successes to share? Big or small. (It would be nice to hear some of these!)
- Got a question? Ask it.
- Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
- Any good books you’d like to discuss?
- What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
- What’s working or not working?
- Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
- What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
- What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
- Is there a Presidential candidate worth voting for?
- Valentine’s Day is fast approaching. What are your thoughts on it and how do you plan to manage the day?
- Tell us a little about yourself.
- What’s your favorite TV show?
- Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!
Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.
Thanks!
Linda & Doug
Have You Ever Been Confused About What to Do?
A Mentor Can Help You Find Strength, Hope and Direction.
We Understand What You're Going Through. We've Been There.
We've Felt the Same Way. We've Made the Same Mistakes. We Survived.
So Can You!
85 replies to "Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #22"
I don’t do Valentine’s Day since DDay. Two and a half years in to my OH’s 8 year EA, he bought me a beautiful bouquet of red roses for Valentine’s Day. Needless to say, out of guilt, although he denies that. Never going to “celebrate” THAT day again!
On the positive side I have had a whole two weeks where the EA has hardly entered my mind. Progress I hope.
Well, that certainly sucks about V-Day but I’m happy to hear that the EA is not entering your mind as much. Baby steps!
I am struggling with how to talk with my husband. I am at 11 months post dday one and 6 months since dday 2. Nothing has been the same for me since dday 2. I am really struggling with how he was supposed to open up and told me for 5 months how glad he was that he was finally being honest with me and there were no secrets between us anymore. We had what I thought were some major discussions and major progress. But dday 2 has really rocked me. He is so set on he has told me whatever he remembers. Things don’t match up though. I feel like he has just thrown out whatever he thinks sounds good or gets him out of a discussion. Or maybe at the time he really does feel that. So much of what he has said is contradictory. He says that none of it makes sense to him and it was all fake and fantasy. But what he is telling me that there was no depth and it meant nothing to him does not compute. Yet how do you have two 10 year secret relationships/affairs with no depth or meaning. I don’t know. Things just don’t match up but I feel like we are at an impasse since he says there is nothing else to say.
And in the meantime he is gushing sweetness. He does not stop which is nice and is so sure about how he feels about me and us. All nice but it almost makes me feel dirty, it is hard to believe him.
Hopefull, I’m sorry you’re struggling right now. I think you’re probably correct when you say he’s just basically telling you what you want to hear or what saves him from talking about it. I also find it hard to believe there was no depth to such long affairs. Often the CS stories don’t make sense and they tend to change several times. If you haven’t already, I think you need to call him out on these issues that bother you and are causing you to be stuck.
Don’t let a 3rd happen
I’m not a big fan of Valentine’s Day. If you can’t treat me kindly with love every day then get lost.
I don’t believe in a “special day” set aside for love. I want it every day. And finally I get that. <3
Yay! So pleased you have found happiness at last, Rachel. No one deserves it more than you after all you have been through. Completely agree on the show me love every day sentiments.
Thank you falling Ash!
During my CH’s affair, when I was still unaware of it, I tried to make a loving connection with him on Valentine’s Day. We had been going through some really nasty family turmoil after the death of his father and we had both agreed that we needed to focus on “our” family and the people most important to us. I wanted to show him I was there for him.
He was still trying to sleep when I left for work so I kissed him goodbye and told him that I loved him. I left a mushy card and gifts and chocolate where he would find them when he got up to have his coffee. I left a note on the message board that said “Happy Valentines’s Day. I love you”.
I was at a conflict resolution workshop an hour away for the day. I tried calling him several times on my break to wish him a happy day but he didn’t answer the phone at home or his cell phone. I texted him to say Happy Valentines Day and tell him again that I loved him. His response – “Happy Tuesday. It’s one day closer to Friday” Finally, after he went to work at 4 pm, I called him and spoke to him. I was going to take dinner to him at work. He agreed as long as I didn’t arrive until after 5 pm. Silly me, I waited and took him a great dinner after 5.
It was a disappointing day but typical of his behaviour at the time. Still I didn’t clue in that anything was amiss. Months later, when I discovered his texts to this AP, there were texts to and from her with Happy Valentine’s wishes. And he hadn’t wanted me to arrive with his dinner too early that day because he was spending time with her before she left work for the day. Guess where the chocolate went that I had given him? He had done everything he could to not say he loved me while trying to see as much of her as he possibly could! I still get angry thinking about it.
I still don’t feel that there is anything for us to celebrate at Valentine’s Day. He still refuses to talk or do anything at all to help us get over his despicable behaviour. I have told him that I would like him to leave since he can’t be bothered to put out any effort. Unfortunately, our son’s marriage recently fell apart and our son is devastated. In order for him to get a new place to live, we have had to help him out not only with the care of our grand kids but emotionally and financially with down payments and furniture, etc. We have also co-signed his mortgage so this severely limits what I can do financially if I were to have to live on only my income. For this reason, I am giving my CH even more opportunities to get his act together. I will be shocked if he actually does anything constructive!
I wish you all a Happy Valentine’s Day with the one you love. I think that even though it was not one of my favourite occasions, now I would be happy to feel special to someone on that day.
You are very brave and strong. I cannot imagine living like that.
Know you deserve better and maybe one day things will change for you.
My husband had a 20 year on/off relationship with a skank from his work. I know of 2 full blown affairs that happened in that time, but my psychologist says it is highly likely there were more.
When it came to holidays, birthdays, etc., He many times used the excuse that he’s so busy at work and he “didn’t have time” to shop, stand in line, etc. to get me anything for Valentines, Christmas, birthday ( his affair partner and I have the same birthday). Some years I would get a card and occasional flowers but it was rare during our almost 38 year marriage. After the most recent affair supposedly ended, the skank sends me text pics of all the jewelry, cards, clothing, boots, etc he gave her for our birthday, Christmas, Valentine’s …
The skank sent me a picture of the gorgeous gold dipped Valentine’s porcelain roses with the question “will you accept this rose” that he somehow found time to buy for her. The pic is burned indelibly in my brain. I found the charge on our credit card for those roses and they were incredibly expensive as they came from a jewelry store. He wore a gold chain for years that he told me he found in a pawn shop…it was really one she gave him that belonged to her father who had recently passed. She gave it to MY husband, not her own husband because my husband “was a special man in her life” according to her text.
So now it is three years since Dday 1 in which he convinced me that he was having only an emotional affair, 20 months since Dday 2 when I found the length, depth, and REAL truth about the deception and both affairs with the physical aspects and 9 months since the last bit of trickle truth that rocked my world a third time. I am emotionally dead.
I won’t celebrate anything with him. I will only be with him at Christmas to celebrate with the kids and grandkids. I pretend all is normal that day for their sakes. I want no gifts from him. I want no birthday celebration (especially since the skank’s birthday is the same day). I want no Valentine’s nor anniversary celebrations. He had time all those years for her, not me. It seems fake to start now. I am 60 years old, too old to start over. I Feel robbed of 20 years of my life, which I consider now a huge lie. I don’t know for certain that his affair is over although it genuinely appears to be and he is trying to make amends and show me he loves me. I don’t know whether to believe him or not, so I choose to not believe. Why should I? He lied for 2’decades, over half of our marriage. im trying to forgive, but to me our marriage is dead. Nothing to celebrate. Everything was a lie. Im in therapy to see if I can change my hurt and thinking and finally forgive so I can live again, but it’s a slow go. I celebrate HIS birthday with a gift and cake as I have always done but now with “a friend” birthday card, I will get him a Christmas gift to keep up appearances, but there will be no Valentine’s, birthday, or anniversary celebrations that I will celebrate with HIM. Too many triggers and too painful.
I am sorry this happened to you. I completely understand your perspective. My H had an EA in late 90s and denied it. I suspected something but there was no proof (no texts or emails). Then he had a mid life crisis affair 3 years ago. And that OW told me he admitted to her about the EA in 97.
I now look at my H as a liar and a cheater and the type of guy I always despised. A player. Those guys are strictly out for themselves and I a always steered clear.
Except in reality I married one. He did it behind my back. Flirty with the women when I wasn’t around.
I don’t know how he lives with himself. Of course NOW he has deep regret and wishes he had not done any of it. But all those years he had no respect for me at all. Just did what he wanted. Had me totally convinced he wasn’t one of “those guys”.
And he ruined our 25th anniversary that he planned for us by texting the OW about him going to dinner and what he ate blah blah blah without any mention of me or the occasion. He has ruined my favorite song, one of my favorite movies, our anniversary, his birthday etc.
It is hard to accept reality at times when the reality you were living was just a charade
How do you get the therapist to help with trying to get the WS to answer questions? and is it the therapist who should be helping the WS be introspective to figure out what the WS vulnerabilities are to infidelity are during couples therapy? The therapist asked me this ” did you come to therapy so you could listen to figure out why she had the affair?” and said “Yes” That would be one of the main goals so we could move on. She just smiled uncomfortable, and my wife was just like ” jesus!” What is the goal of couples therapy if it is not that?
Every therapist works differently. I have read slot about marriage counseling – both good and bad. Clearly you are trying to move forward and address the issues. I did the same thing.
However some therapists take a different approach. They feel you should focus more on the “getting past the affair”.
The guy I went to (alone b/c my H refused to go and said we did not need it which was utter crap and really he did not want to go b/c he was still seeing her even though I had no idea). My therapist explored what do I want? Divorce or separation or stay together or open marriage. The first year I wantedu the marriage. By year two I was so sick of being lied to continually I almost asked for a divorce.
In any event it may make sense to see someone on your own. It gets tricky b/c some therapists feel another therapist “interferes” on the couple. Some will see you both as a couple and individually but many will not do that.
If you feel your wife and therapist are not on the same page then find someone else. Who picked this person? You or her? That could make a difference.
My therapist tried to help both of us. But for reasons more to do with my H it ended up that I saw him mostly. Many of the CS refuse therapy. Guilt ridden and shame or even ego stop them from moving forward.
I don’t think your request was out of line and I would consider you may not be with the right therapist for you.
Thanks for your insight. I don’t know if Doug or Linda would like to give me their take on this issue? I choose this therapist precisely because my CW refused to go to the best qualified one I found but was 20 miles away and would require her to leave work early. This therapist she practices being mindful and meditation so that resonates with her & 10 minutes away. This was the original plan was to do couples then occasional individual when needed. I don’t really see her as being the right fit now. We are going to see a Gottman therapist next Tuesday. Some of the logic I have read in his books makes me think this may be my issue as to being unable to forgive. I told her I forgive her but I think i am just really saying I am resigned to the fact she cheated.
Forgiveness is a long process. There are days you truly forgive and days you are truly resentful and angry.
You will have to learn to accept your wife for the liar and cheater she is now. That is hard too. She is no longer the same person you married. And that is hard too.
I married my H b/c I was so impressed with his honesty and he did not play games. We met and fell in love and married. No bull no games just a really great relationship. So now I have to accept he became a different person. And his needs and wants were first and I was not. And I now believe he was or is different than the person I believed him to be
And that will never change.
I believe I have forgiven him but will never trust him 100% like I did. He blew that with me. He is a great father and all that. But failed in the H category.
I think my therapist worked for months with me in getting me to accept my H for what he had become. That is hard. But I did it and I now am accepting of our new marriage. He now talks more about his feelings. Or what bothers him. Or his job. Or anything. He checked out of our marriage not me. All of this may have prevented his affair. He felt disconnected. He felt unhappy with his job and turning 50 and other things. But he just joked about it like he always did.
So things can change and they can improve if both parties really want it.
But the trust will never be 100% again. That is reality.
I was upset my H refused counseling butI look back now and I am glad he did. I learned how to deal and heal and work on me. And I am better for it. It has helped tremendously with teens and other issues.
TFW
You have great wisdom. Forgiveness is a long process.
I was able to forgive my husband for his first EA before I knew it was over ( six months after he left me). It felt like a huge weight had lifted off my shoulders.
With his second affair that began within a month after the first one ended I don’t believe I have forgiven him as he continues this EA ( which had turned into a PA for four months) on and off.
I was led to believe the affair had ended when he returned home.
Hard to forgive someone when he chooses not to end the EA, and I agree with you when you say that I have to accept my husband for what he is today, as he really isn’t the man I married.
He appears to have a hard time saying no to this woman, and will see what becomes of us down the road.
For now one day at a time.
My H had his mid life crisis affair and admitted it and ended it after a few months. I was trying to be supportive and understanding because he was upset it happened and he admitted it.
They were still in contsct and he decided to end our marriage. Out of the blue. No signs or warning. Just walked in and said he wanted out.
So a few weeks later after he has me like s yo yo with his staying/leaving I vonfront him and out of fear he swears up & down he loves me and decides to stay. I am not 100% sure he is telling the truth but I believe it.
Those months they were apart were hell. He was cruel and nasty and unleashed 25 years of unhappiness at me. Stuff that happened years ago (more than 20 years in the past) were revealed. More crap to deal with.
Tells me again not sure if he wants to be married. This is August.
In September he refuses marriage counseling so I continue to go on my own. He had seen s therapist once or twice and stopped. He plans a very romantic 25th anniversary for us in October.
November he asks for a divorce again. Next day changes his mind and doesn’t want a divorce. Early December he walks in the door and wants a divorce. I was so done with this routine. I had enough of the yo yo routine. I had no where to turn plus dealing with a family member who was critically ill ((out of the blue).
So I track down the OW and call her. I had her number. And she told me they were still seeing each other. And he admitted his EA from 17 years ago to her.
I am more angry about the EA 17 years ago. Angry at myself. I confronted him for years and all he would say was there is nothing going on. I knew this girl was madly in love with him for years. Told him to watch his back. He denied everything.
Right there was the proof that he was not the guy I thought he was. But I refused to believe it. Since I had no actual proof 17 years ago I had to move past it. And I did. And I trusted him 100%.
Now? I trust me. I call our things when they don’t add up be specially my kids. I have no tolerance for being lied to.
When my H travels for business I just accept it because if he wants to cheat he will. I cannot stop it. But he has to live with himself. But if I find out we are over with no questions asked.
He fooled me completely when he went back to his OW for part 2 (as I call it). He strung me along. She sent me all the emails between them where he was planning on leaving me. So I know exactly what I am dealing with.
Now mid life crisis is indeed a psychological syndrome. And I know all about it. It has broken up tons of marriages. I get it.
But that is a poor justification for cheating.
But we have moved past it. He regrets all of it. He is more open and communicates more. He is remorseful and tries hard every day to make amends. And that is a good place to start to try and repair the damage. I am good with that. But I not trusting if anyone 100% ever
TFW – You have described my OH and our situation to a T!
The biggest shock to me was that his behaviour was the polar opposite of what I thought him to be. I thought him to be a man of integrity, not a cheat and a liar. I don’t think I will ever fully recover from this. The best I can hope for is acceptance, and I am 90% there with that.
The good thing (at least for me) is that once you have acceptance and forgiveness you feel a tremendous weight off your shoulders. And that is when I put my future first. I focus on me. I sort of do my own thing.
And it works for me.
Coming up to 4 years since D Day. (Still single myself)
You’ll all be happy to hear that the ex wife’s AP, her boss 12 years younger, left the company 17 months ago, and left her. I saw his new GF on Facebook, figure she’s about 10 years younger than him. (Cute as a button) So he went from a 54 year old to a 32 year old.
Kids still live with me.
So the end result…. she lives alone and is alone.
What a waste.
Karma. ?
Ken,
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Beware of a call from your ex who will want you back.
antiskank
Not sure if have told you that I love your pen name.
Like you my husband refuses to talk about his two affairs one right after another. he left me in 2013 for the first EA because she was the one but he never said it to my face, it was in an e mail. He has never said he fell out of love or it was my fault, but off he went and moved into her building and became the maintenance man to pay for his rent.
She ended things six months after he moved out of our house, and within a month was online and started another affair but this one turned into a PA, I did not know about the second affair until he confessed it to me four months later.
So at that time he tells me he ended it and I believed him and he moved back to the house.
It is two years this month that he started the second affair and it has not ended. It’s on again off again. She cries about how much she loves him and he gets sucked right back into the fantasy.
I have told him three times where the door is but don’t think he takes me seriously so last week I said that I married you for life, but that doesn’t mean I have to live with you. he appears to be more attentive right now after I said that to him.
So Valentines Day was never a celebrated day for us because my H used to bring me flowers several times during the year.
But like you it would make me feel special if he brought me flowers or jewelry this Valentines Day even though I am not a materialistic person. I didn’t get anything last year on V. day and to top it off my B Day is the day after Valentines! Will see what happens. Not holding my breath.
Oh wait! he won’t have time to get me anything for either day as he may be searching for the perfect gift for his “true love”. Have a great day! 🙂
So how was Valentines Day for everyone?
Very nice. Spent the day inside with freezing temps with good friends visiting and our sons home. ?
My Valentine’s Day was terrible. I tried to focus on my kids which was the bright spot. This was the first vday since dday and I am not one to expect material objects. But no card no letter no note nothing. He was verbally telling me about how much he loves me and how I am the most important thing in his life etc. but I was sad. And my 10 year old was the only one that noticed which made me more sad.
And to top it off at the end of the evening he got very angry with both of our kids. It was so upsetting. He never acts this way and I get it they were up later than he expected but he did nothing to help. One of our kids was finishing up their laundry which I think is great it was getting done all on their own. The other one he yelled at her about her homework since it was to be done with an adult. She specifically asked him to do it with her. It was horrible. I did not back down and told him to leave them alone. It just capped off a crappy day already.
I am frustrated since I thought he might make what I consider is bare minimum effort and get me a card. I feel like that is a pretty low level of expectation. He through the years has always told me birthdays and holidays do not matter to him. When we first met they did. I don’t know. He says the right things in general but I am feeling really down and not sure if I am making too big of a deal over it.
Sorry to hear your V-day sucked so bad, Hopeful. Just wondering if you voiced your displeasure with him at all for his not acknowledging the day with a note or card or anything?
I was going to but I struggle about bringing things up. Our kids were around. It just was not right. I feel like I have been upset about various things and felt it would not the best time for me to bring it up. I knew i would probably just break down. I have found it is better for me to pull all my thoughts all together. I find it is better for both of us. At my request we have set up a once a week meeting time to talk. So I had planned to bring it up then. He did come home today with flowers and a card and said he felt bad for not doing anything and more of his sentiments towards me gushing. So I was glad mostly that he acknowledged and recognized that he did not handle it well.
I understand completely – especially when the kids are around. As long as you air your thoughts and feelings at some point. I guess it’s good that he eventually got you something. Did he happen to mention why he didn’t in the first place?
Yes he did. He said it right away that he felt a lot of guilt for not doing anything or acknowledging the day. So in a way I wanted him to address it first rather than me having to say it so I am glad I waited.
Well he was working part of the day from home and just got lazy. He said he likes getting me things and doesn’t feel like it is a chore or obligation. He has never been a planner. As I told him if he would have written me something on notebook paper that would have been meaningful. I also feel conflicted since through all the affair years he gave me gifts and meaningful cards. He would write how much he loved having me as his wife and loved life together. So I find that balance hard wanting the connection but feeling almost jaded that it could be fake or mean nothing.
I am sorry to hear this. When the words say one thing and the actions tell a different story it is hard to know what to do.
Follow the actions I believe is the truth. During my H’s affair there were signs he wanted out and I called him on it all the time. You may say one thing but your actions show something else.
Also my H was good at playing both sides. He loved me and her. By the second DDay I had no clue they were seeing each other I was that fooled. But looking back I did pick up on things that seemed irrational or made no sense. And he was preparing to dump me. And he was trying to pave the way.
So keep your eyes and ears open. His frustration level may be on edge and if he is unhappy he may take it out on the kids or you or small things. I saw that with my H. I could not say anything at times without an argument. He was never like that.
Watch his behavior. I believe that reflects their true feelings.
I had a very relaxing Valentines Day. It was our 50th Valentines Day that we have been celebrating since we were teenagers, except for one year when he had his EA. He was told NOT to give me anything as I would not accept it which hurt him the most because for all those years he gave them from his heart. We had dinner at one of our favorite restaurants which we both enjoyed. Hope your day, Linda and Doug was a nice one also.
Glad your day was nice, Patsy. We actually had a good day as well (our 36th V-Day), though we kind of celebrated on Saturday by going out for a nice dinner and then listening to a band. Sunday, we got back to work and finished up our home remodeling project for this winter – redoing the laundry room.
I hate Valentine’s Day. Partly because if the affair. Well mostly but it’s so contrived and so much pressure. Buying me a card does nothing for me. I’ve gotten plenty if beautiful gifts from my h even during the affair. He’s a very good gift giver. He totally spoiled me for Christmas fir gifts. Plus he was very helpful with all the holiday stuff. We are having major turmoil with our youngest adult son so the holidays were less than pleasant family wise. But he still treated me very nice.
I told him not to buy me anything g for Valentine’s Day as he went overboard for Christmas and there is nothing I need or want. But he was very loving and kind to me on V day. Lol we actually went to our favorite French restaurant the weekend before to avoid the specticle of valentines dinner. So it snowed here and was nasty. We had our grandson Saturday night and we both loved that. I guess all in all V day was ok even good. I asked for nothing and expected nothing so I was happy.
Things are good and I’ll be damned if I let some bogus love day ruin it for me. Screw you Hallmark!!!
“Awaiting moderation”???? What the heck Doug:)
Yeah, I know. It’s set to not require moderation once someone posts their first approved comment, but something is screwy and it isn’t always working. Trust me, it sucks because I sure don’t want to have to moderate comments from all the regulars.
My posts are always awaiting moderation, I must have been bad. Lol
HA! No SR you’ve been a very good girl! I think it’s due to a security plugin we’ve been using. I have the blog set to only moderate for a person’s first comment, but for some reason it’s doing it more regularly than that – though not for everyone. So it’s something I need to figure out because I don’t like to have to moderate these things any more than you like to be moderated! Keep commenting please!
Ohh thanks doug, glad something thinks I’ve been a good girl. Lol
You know I check up in here almost everyday, I at times start to make a comment, and then end up deleting it, or I let it go through and for some reason it disappears completely, like I’ve never entered anything. I end up then just reading.
I have to say though doug, it’s still a bit of a life line for me here. I do try and give myself a break though, and try not to think about affairs. Which has been good for me actually. Yet I’m still not quite ready to move away from here just yet. I actually like to see how all you lovelies are going.
SR, I hear you. I’m glad that you still check in each day, but we do miss your thoughtful and insightful comments! Those readers who are new to the wonderful world of infidelity can always use another experienced point of view. Trust me, it can be therapeutic.
Doug, thank you, sometimes I find however when I do go through with a post, that once I enter it, it doesn’t show. I find it especially on the older posts, where maybe it’s because there is just too many comments.
Hmmm. I’m not sure why that would happen as the blog settings aren’t such that one can’t make comments on older posts and they’re not limited in quantity. I’ll look into it further though to try and figure out what could cause that to happen.
For some reason now all posts from this blog goes to my Junk Mail which is bad because I get about 75 junk mails a day and just delete all of them without checking what’s in there. This is a new occurrence. I get the need for firewalls. We have such strict firewalls at work but if hackers wanted to get through I’m pretty sure it would be easy pickings.
I’m not sure if the security plugin we’re using would have any bearing on posts going to your junk mail. I think it has more to do with the email provider you use and “whitelisting” us, or if Gmail, drag and drop one of the emails to your Primary folder and that should do the trick. I know with our other email accounts it’s quite common for emails to go to spam all of a sudden and sporadically for no apparent reason.
What do you feel is your most important, meaningful, insightful, observation ( journal, blog, post) that YOU have created?
My most important observation has been that at the end of the day, I am responsible for my happiness. And my H is responsible for his happiness.
And no excuse or justification can allow cheating on your spouse to be an acceptable choice.
Hey Theresa, Wow that’s a tough question. You know, we’re approaching our 1000 post, so it’s kind of hard to pick one. However, my own personal favorites that I wrote are a toss up between: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/10-elements-of-a-successful-marriage/ and https://www.emotionalaffair.org/recovery-and-trust-after-an-affair-trusting-the-rope/
I’m not sure they qualify as the most important or insightful, but they’re my favorites. If I thought harder I could probably throw a few more on here as well!
Here’s why I dislike Valentines Day……Valentines Day, 2014, fell about 3 weeks after DDay #1. I thought he had given the EA up to honor me but boy was I wrong! I had made us a complete turkey dinner that night to celebrate. I found out 6 months later, from her, that he was still talking to her and that he had bought her a rose bush for Valentine’s Day!!!! Phone records show that he even texted her in the bed that night right under my nose! We are still together and I honestly think that we are more in love now than we have ever been in our 28 year marriage, but Valentines Day, for me, is still a major trigger.
Heartbroken – My DDay was just before Easter 2014 so we are at a similar time frame in our recovery. I found the text messages that he had lain beside me in bed texting to his OW to arrange to meet up. Still cuts me up whenever I think about it. We are doing OK. As long as he never lies to me again, we just might make it. One thing that really interested me about your post was that you said you were more in love than ever. I find it impossible to tell him I love him, although I think I do…some of the time anyway. But definitely not like I used to. I often wonder if that deep love I felt for him before I found out about his betrayal of me and of us will ever return.
That is a good question. My DDay1 was July 3rd in 2013. Second one was thanksgiving week. Like you my H emailed his OW from our bedroom telling her he had asked for divorce and to please hsng on as thngs are changing.
He did not leave and we are still together. I love him. But we will never have the same marriage. I will never be on Rick solid ground again b/c he talked about divorce. The last time he told me he was leaving me for her I didn’t know they were still in contact. I had to call the OW to find out what was going on.
Also he announced he was leaving me out of the blue. After swearing up and down 3 days before in front if our thetapist he really wanted to stay married. Ha! Fooled even the therpist.
Also he did lie to me after the fact about details surrounding the affair. Soooo while he has not cheated since then he still lied to me to cover his butt.
The whole thing makes you just shake your head in disbelief.
So yes you do love him. But I think the relationship changed after infidelity. That just cannot be helped. That is just my humble opinion. You just cannot undo infidelity. It lessens over time but it will always be there. ?
Falling ash, I feel the same way, I know I love my Ch, but I am unsure if it is that I have been so hurt by him that I am afraid to love him like I used to, like I am guarded, or that the love I have for him is not as strong. Like a part of me no longer feels the same way, I used to. If that makes sense. I do think that maybe it is the first one, that the hurt is still a major factor and I am just protecting myself, guarding myself, because if I feel too attached to him, and he does it again, then it will be easier for me to let go of him. Unlike before when I felt we were ok, and he ended up breaking my heart. So deep down I think that is what I am doing unconsciously, stepping back in the hopes if it happens again it will be easier for me to do what I need to, instead of being a complete and utter mess.
TFW – You are right that infidelity changes everything about a relationship. I cannot see my OH as the person I thought I knew before his betrayal. He is working at changing, but will it ever be enough?
Strength – I think you are right. I believe my “lesser” love is through thinking that allowing him into my heart again, will lead to him taking my love for granted again. I know it is a leap of faith I need to take to have a fulfilling future with him, but I am not there yet. Ongoing self-preserving behaviour on his part has definitely slowed down my healing. Even last night, he at last admitted something that I knew in my heart was the case but he had always said he “wasn’t sure” that had happened. It never ends!
Describes exactly where I am. Wish it could be different.
This is way, way off topic here, but I wanted to mention something about security.
One reason why some people have there comments “awaiting moderation” I suspect is due to a security plugin we’ve started using. Websites are hacked all day everyday. Once we got the plugin and reviewed the results of the scans, it was quite shocking how often this site is attacked by people with malicious or devious intent. Luckily they have not been successful yet.
There isn’t a day that goes by that we don’t get an alert that says some hacker from China or Russia or Turkey has been blocked because they tried too many times without success to login to the admin dashboard. And that’s just for our little old site. I can only imagine what it’s like for larger sites. They obviously need full time workers to monitor this shit.
Anyways, I wanted to explain that a bit further. I know it sucks to have your comments in moderation if you’re a regular poster, and trust me I hate to have to check on it several times a day, but that’s the reason why it’s happening. Maybe I need to figure out a tweak that can fix it, but who knows if I can.
Also, depending on the browser you use, sometimes when you get on the blog it might be showing you a cached version of the site and you won’t see new posts or comments. Just refresh the page and it should clear that and update things.
Thanks for your patience and thanks for everything else!
I’m grateful to have a place to write out something that happened that I’m almost embarrassed about, but not quite. I’m more in….’awe’? Short version: Husband has almost 2 year affair. Mean, awful things said and done to me and my family. At the beginning of affair I give birth to child number 4-Husband is not any type of husband during this time nor father. Brink of divorce. He sees the light. Talks with pastor, sees his wrongs, works for us to reconcile. We do. This is 5 years ago.
Takes me A LOT of time to work through things. After over 3 years, I still fight but he starts to have the attitude that this is too long, what more can he do?, what’s the point of even trying so hard, I’ll just wait until she’s over it.
More time passes and we work through each day. I’m feeling better and better, stronger and stronger about things. Just one little nagging thing though. I don’t like the way things are starting to feel with my good friend and him. We go out with her and her husband who is a very close friend of my husband. Nothing I can put my finger on-just little things. She drinks too much and is on my husband’s lap-he says it was very uncomfortable. I don’t feel right so I check phone records and see that they talked for over an hour while he was away for business on our 4th child’s birthday nonetheless. I was furious!!! He said she was concerned that I was upset with her or something like that. Few months later as I’m really starting to feel good and happy with my life, I find out that they have been talking with each other-A LOT. A month prior he started with his talk of that we really don’t have anything in common and am I happy, blah, blah, blah-I asked if he was talking to someone.
Anyway, I caught them together at MY house. However, she was telling him they couldn’t do what they had been doing anymore. She came and talked to me also.
I went to visit the attorney. I was ready to be done.
Needless to say we talked and worked things out. I thought to myself this is only until we move and I get myself settled then we will see.
ok-so things have gone really well this past year. We are closer than we have been in a long time. (Here comes the kind of but not really embarrassing part) During this time he has grown a beard. I came home last week and he had shaved it right off!!! My body totally reacted-not my head but my body. I couldn’t look at him. I couldn’t hardly talk to him. Definitely could hardly kiss him without shutting my eyes tight. I only felt like I wanted to run! It was a terrible feeling! I realized that I had learned to trust that bearded man and the one now looking back at me was the same face that betrayed me twice.
I couldn’t tell him. I didn’t have anyone I could tell until I saw the open mic and knew I could at least write it down here.
Sorry my story is so rambly but I can’t believe how my body reacted to him. I’ve done a lot of self talk that this is still the man that I have been close to for the last year-looks don’t matter. It is a lot better but occasionally catches me off guard.
Amazing what the body and mind deal with.
Thanks for letting me let loose!
Tdleea
Sounds like you have been through a lot. I totally understand the beard thing. My husband had a beard, which I hate, when his EA started. He shaved it off at some time during the affair. Every time he neglects to shave for a week or so or mentions his desire to grow a beard, I cringe. It a major trigger. The bearded man made a choice to cheat on me. It may sound silly to some but I understand.
It’s all about triggers. I cannot hear certain songs as they remind me of the OW.
It has ruined July 4th, our anniversary, my favorite song, my favorite movie, etc.
The CS really has no idea. My H had to get a new car after I found out she was in his car.
I totally get the beard thing!
The car is an ongoing dilemma for me. It is MY car and I loved him (it is a boy car) to bits. BUT, knowing he would pick her up in the car and take her places is a big deal for me. The text messages I saw on DDay arranging to meet up included the words “I should have the car so we can explore”, makes me shudder whenever I think of it. I am torn between reclaiming MY car back for ME, and selling it and making HIM buy the replacement.
I guess I got to the point where I got so mad that my life was revolving around and, at times, directed by these triggers that I made it my ‘mission’ to reclaim ( I like the word! ) my life and the things I like without thinking about the other things. Amazing what anger can do when directed positively!
Thanks for the understanding! It’s getting better each day. Guess maybe I was caught off guard because I’ve learned when triggers occur how to work myself through them with ease. This was a full blown in my face that didn’t go away as easily.
I’ve worked my way through most songs with the exception of one-it gets turned off immediately. This is a relief because I love my music! However, he will never own the same type of vehicle he owned at the time. I can still see his handprint on the passenger window which made me wonder why it was there at the time (since it was before I knew anything was going on). I’ve worked super hard into accepting our relationship in the now and the present and enjoying it. Things are good right now-be present for it-stop worrying-it doesn’t do me any good-he will always be in charge of his own decisions. And, if at some point, he decides to stray, I will be done and move on with my life and I’ve really become ok with this thought process. I feel much happier in my life. At times, while we were rebuilding and I would have fear and anxiety, I would think about all the things I would do without him as my husband and be able to see/know that life would go on for me-life is good. Focusing on the good and replacing bad thoughts with good has become a strong part of my healing.
Feeling raw today as it is the 2 year “antiversary”of their last meeting. I asked him earlier in the week to take ME to lunch today. At 12.15 he still hadn’t said anything so I told him, “we have to go now!” Not how I had hoped it would be. He hadn’t booked anywhere. Hadn’t planned anything. So I got him to drive me somewhere and sat there at the table quietly falling apart. So much for “exorcising” the evil date. It is just as present as 2 years ago. I am a fool to myself for even attempting to reclaim these dates for me.
My valentines day was nothing special. He did not remember that it was valentines day until my daughter reminded him. He just wished but throughout the day never made any effort to buy me flowers or a card. We went out to a mall for his work and came back!
I never want to celebrate Valentine’s Day again. He was in the hospital. The day before he made arrangements with a friend to give him some money, so when I got there he had me take him down to the gift shop in his wheelchair so he could buy me chocolates and have me pick out a stuffed animal. I thought it was so sweet and romantic. At midnight he called to wish me Happy Valentine’s. I later found out that at 12:05, he was texting HER. She sent him a message that said “Crazy for You”. So I’m done with that day now. Our wedding anniversary is coming up next week. I already told him that I don’t even want to acknowledge it. I feel like our marriage is a sham, so there is nothing to celebrate.
They just don’t get it and do the STUPID things again and again. Hugs to you for not hitting him upside the head with your chocolates.
Guys, I need help! After thinking that things were hunky dory (and they seemed to be), I have found out that the OW is back on the scene – in a professional way, it seems (she works in the same industry as my husband). However, despite having asked him for transparency (ie to tell me when he meets her at events, which I would find OK as I believe he is unlikely to transgress), he hasn’t told me about ANY of these meetings. She was at a conference he chaired last Friday and I realised through twitter…He never told me. Now it transpires that she has been at several other events he has gone to.
I have expressed how awful I feel about this. I asked for transparency. I thought he would understand. It feels like we’re back to square one: he’s lied (by omission), hidden his meetings with her (however innocent) and I’ve lost my trust in him. I do love him and I think overall our relationship was going well BUT this has knocked me for six and I don’t know what to do. Especially as raising the subject in itself was difficult as he always plays passive-aggressive, accuses me of ruining everything (‘if I’d told you, this is exactly what would have happened, you would have gone crazy!’), pleads total innocence and refuses to accept that he has not shown any respect for my request to disclose her presence at events. I really would find his being open a lot less scary than finding out by myself and feeling bewildered, betrayed and scared. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? I don’t think so and I just feel I’m losing the battle, again, and that he will never change. What do you think?
Melissa,
I have had something to a lesser extent with my husband. One of my major boundaries I said I expected was if he goes out that he needs to tell me who he is with and where he is with also. And if they change spots or decide to grab dinner really anything different or extended from our intitial discussion he needs to text or call me. In addition not staying out late and limiting his drinks which was his idea. So I thought my request was pretty easy and something any professional adult can handle. Well sometimes he is able to respect my request. Last week though he went to watch games and he called to tell me they were going somewhere new. Then I knew there was no way he was going to stay in one spot for as long as they were out. So I used the find my iPhone on his iPad and sure enough he was not at the last place he called me from. I have decided I am going to be calm and give it some time maybe he was giving one of his friends a ride home. Well he finally called and was all happy. He thought he had done so well. Yeah not! And at first he got defensive. I just told him we need to sit down and have a serious discussion since I could bet my house he did not just stay at the same place and I never got a text or call. Which I already knew was true. Well long story short he had various lame excuses. In the end he felt like he was so well behaved and innocent. But I told him the issue I have is even if he did nothing how will I ever trust him if he cannot respect me enough to follow the most simple request to make me feel safe. And I said this whole affair thing is a slippery slope and what he did is not a way to make me feel safe.
He always says I am trying so hard. And he says I want you to be happy. Yet with these types of actions it has the opposite affect. Lots to discuss later this week.
Based on what my therapist has said once you set the boundaries they need to be followed. And he has said no contact and the boundaries I mentioned above are more than reasonable. Are you seeing a therapist even for yourself? That has helped me assert myself and realize what is reasonable.
Thanks so much for your note. No, I’m not seeing a therapist (our original counsellor moved away and I just can’t afford it at the moment). I so agree with your thoughts about your H not respecting you enough to follow the most simple request to make you feel safe. What is wrong with these guys? I really thought we were out of the woods but I feel I’ve gone back five years. v sad.
Hang in there. Sorry you cannot see anyone right now. I have found reading books has helped me a lot also. I think the therapy has made me realize my expectations are totally normal if not still a little soft. I love when I was telling my therapist about something my husband wanted to do with friends. And my therapist said if my husband was there he would say too bad. You have lost your right to do what you want. You lost that when you had two long term affairs. You had all of that trust and flexibility. It will be a long time before it is earned back. And I do play back and use my therapists words which has helped a ton. I wish my husband would too but since he is in the business he thinks that is okay. I keep telling my therapist that I feel like I am his therapist. Why am I the one to alert him that he is spending too much time on his cell phone and getting too many texts. Through all of this I think my teenager has better judgement than him.
What I was trying to explain to him is if he cannot do something so basic how can he ever be trusted to not slip up. The time will come most likely when he is out, through work or some other setting. And I said to him last week I just want him to make the right decision on his own without me having to say or ask for what should be done. I understand we all have selfish moments but I just don’t think this stuff is that hard. Saying that it obviously is hard for someone who is more self centered than I ever realized. It is amazing how someone can hide who they are for 25 years. It is so hard to comprehend these men. One thing I know more than ever is who I am and I will not compromise my integrity for him or anyone.
Melissa
No you are NOT making a mountain out of a mole hill. People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. He is lying, no matter how you slice it. This is a deal breaker in my book. He didn’t tell you not because of you or your reaction, but because he is covering his own ass. It’s irresponsible and mean of him to hide it from you. And he did hide it. He chose not to tell you. It’s also a power play on his part. If he keeps it from you he has power over you.
I’m happy you are so certain you will make it. Were my h doing this I wouldn’t be so certain.
Thanks, TryingHard. it’s really hard. I had the full works this morning (screaming, swearing, telling me to shut the f** up, blaming me for everything – but not once has he acknowledged that what he’s done is wrong. I’ve asked for some time to sit down and discuss but nothing so far… I despair.
Hi Melissa. I am sorry you are here in this position. Please note I have been in your exact position. affair is out in open and CH continues to screw up. Why?
Selfish behavior and choices by the cheater.
When I finally had enough of my H lying and cheating I told him I was done. I did not ask for an explanation. I did not ask for “the truth”. I asked him to leave.
ALL OF A SUDDEN he realized what he had done. Suddenly when I am kicking him to the curb he had his “aha” or come to Jesus moment.
I then asked for the truth and expected him to come clean. He lied to cover his butt thinking that was a better path than the full blown honest truth.
In your case your H has been doing the same thing. Not living up to his commitment to you, continuing the texting/behavior that got him in trouble, lying by omission AND trying to blame you for the problems.
Call it affair fog, denial, whatever you wish.
He has shown his hand at all times. I always follow the actions of the cheater not their words. Every signal is screaming “I do not want to be married”.
Get your plan B together now. Finances & place to live & co parenting plans and all that need to be in your mind.
My very wonderful thetapist told me that for a divorced person to be successful in their future – you want to leave the marriage with little regret. Meaning that you can walk away knowing you did your very best to try and make it work but you could not stay or make it work. You can give yourself permission to be strong and put yourself first.
Right now your H is putting himself first. His needs. His wants. So you need to do the same now. You can ask for what you want/need from him. But if you don’t get it you can then decide your next course of action. With no guilt at all.
You can give yourself permission to be a capital I instead of allowing him to make you a lowercase i. Example is you tell him “Here is what I want from you ……” instead of saying “i hope you can be honest with me”. The first is making you a capital I by stating what you want and the second is asking for something but putting the choice on him to be honest.
Once you get your power back you will realize he is no longer in the driver’s seat of your life. You are. And you should be.
Melissa
I am so sorry. I feel so sad for you. I hope you have read this blogs latest post. It’s a great list for how to move forward.
I know I’m going to tell you things you already know so please forgive me. Affairs are fueled by secrecy. For some reason your h wants to keep at least the fantasy of the affair alive in his mind. This is why he reacted si angrily, this is why he’s not telling you about seeing her even as innocently as he portrays these interactions. An affair, even one that he says is over can reignite very quickly when there is no contact not firmly in place. You are very right to be angry and suspicious of him/them.
He has broken every rule of reconciliation with his actions and choices. Now that you realize it, it’s time for you to take action for yourself. He still wants his cake and you too. He’s being very egotistical and selfish. He is not willing to stop or help you. And that’s his choice. You can’t force him to do the right thing. But you can’t sit quietly by and allow him to deceive you. I know it sucks and it’s hard but you have to know this is no way to live. You’re a young woman. You have your whole life ahead of you. Your marital foundation has been broken and one person alone cannot fix it.
His unwillingness to be honest and get help should be a deal breaker for you. His lashing out at you and telling you to shut the fuck up should be a deal breaker for you. His blaming you should be a deal breaker for you. We’re I you I’d start investigating your plan B if you agree with me. He has to see what he will lose. It has to hit home with him. No more pretty sanding for him. Time to turn your back on him and make plans for you.
Yes, this blog is brilliant and I’m so glad I came back to it. All the comments I’ve received have been helpful. I made my point very calmly last night and hope that things will trickle into my H’s consciousness and he will make amends. I don’t think he’s done anything specific to rekindle the relationship with the OW but his lying by omission has set me back a good couple of years – although I find I’m a lot more sanguine about this than I was.
As to Plan B, it’s quite hard. I’ve got very little freelance work and cannot manage financially on my own. I could go and live abroad where we have a small house but I don’t speak the language and would need to find some sort of work to make ends meet. Not that it’s impossible, but it’s scary. Most of the time – and up till this set back – we get on really well and I really thought we were a much better couple but my H has a huge problem with communication and it’s difficult to even get close to making him understand he needs to change his behaviour.
Melissa – My heart goes out to you. After a whole year of recovery following discovery of my OH’s 8 year EA, I found out, on our way back from my 60th birthday trip away, that my OH had hidden from me a work-related trip to the street where his AP lived. The double whammy was this appointment had taken place on the anniversary of what should have been a tryst between them had I not seen the texts arranging to meet on that date and confronted him on DDay! His excuse for not telling me? “I didn’t want to upset you just before for birthday”. So, the upshot was that me finding out he had lied by omission was far far worse than if he had told me himself. They just can’t seem to get it that transparency and honesty means exactly that. He has since admitted that the only person he was protecting was himself. It set our recovery back by months. I know exactly how you must feel because I have been there. Sending you a big hug.
Thank you so much. We had ‘the conversation’ yesterday and although it was hard work (my husband has a habit of throwing mud when cornered and talking about lots of other thing, then he usually threatens to cancel a holiday or a trip or work that he’s undertaken… then he compared me to his first wife who was a terrible nag and ‘that’s the reason why I divorced her’…). You get the drift.. However, what I want to say is that his reason for not mentioning seeing the OW as pretty much the same your H gave ‘he wanted peace and quiet’. I have re-iterated that I trust him NOT to rekindle the relationship (for some reason, unknown to me, he does seem to absolutely hate the OW with a vengeance these days) BUT that I want to know when he meets her, however ‘innocent’ the circumstances might be. I think he got the message. Whether he acts on it is another matter. We’re going to be away for five months which makes it easier in some ways although he will be coming back to the UK for work on his own a couple of times and that is a big trigger for me.
Thank you again for your thoughts, really much appreciated.
Why does the CS continue to do things that undermine the healing process ?
I remember when my H was ending the affsir in Dec 2013. The OW had written an email to him. He looked at me and said I don’t know what to do here.
I looked at him and I was furious. Gee darling you had no problem telling me you wanted a divorce. He literally walked in the door out of the blue and said he wanted out (after speaking with her). Then he changed his mind and wanted to end the affair.
And he didn’t know what to say to make her go away. In reality he was trying to make her go away and not cause any trouble so he could lie his way out of the affair.
And the lies continued for another 9 months when it came to the facts & details of the affair. It almost cost our marriage in the end.
And then there were the 3 emails – one from his EA from the late 90s after 17 years of no contact, an email from the recent Ow after a month of no contact and one very flirty email from another girl from grad school.
They certainly don’t help your case here innocent or not. He did not respond to the emails (that I know of) but it undermines my faith.
I trust he has not done anything to invite these emails b/c I have that email account in my phone (at his insistence). However the fact that they were received can lead to suspicions if I was that kind of person. And I told him he already has 3 strikes and he had better watch it. One slip (even an innocent one) and he knows the next steps. I am done playing this game and being put into the “mother” role. Honestly it is like having a third child.
Melissa
LOL yes dear it is sadly the same story. But it’s the opposite that is true. They come to us and say “this is very hard for me to talk about but I saw the OW” and then go on to explain what happened. Adds so much to their credibility.
You know he’s kashing out because he’s ashamed and afraid and when those feeling arise it’s fight or flight. He fights. Poor guy has very little control. Sounds like he likes to blame others for his problems which is very narcissistic.
You tube has some excellent videos to learn about narcissism. Maybe it would be helpful to you to watch them. I hope you are taking care of yourself
My Valentines Day was a sham as has been almost 2 years of my marriage. I was alerted to the EA the first week of February. The additional revelations came in dribs and drabs. For VD, we went out to lunch and had a nice time. At the time I had only known about him looking the OW skank on facebook. I didn’t know how often he was FB trolling. I found out a while later that he kept track of his happy moments with her by drawing smiley faces in his pocket calendar. Valentines Day was no exception. This was the last entry in his calendar for that nonsense. He could be chronicling this elsewhere – I have no idea.
I have to tell you I have been reading a book called Not “Just Friends”. It goes into detail about EAs and PAs and how EAs become PAs. There was even a quiz about If it indeed is an EA. My husband took it and of course the quiz tabulated that he is in an EA.
We “celebrated” our 18th anniversary. It was a painful one. I had been married once before to someone who still abuses alcohol and drugs. The sad part is none of our anniversaries were as painful as this one.
We work to save our marriage. I hope to come through everything healed and have a marriage better than ever. Only time will tell.
My husband and I have separated for about three months now. I dont want to maintain contact, but we have two kids and I am still financially dependant on him. I dont mind the separation as it is much better than constantly living with a person whom you cannot trust and continued to cheat. We are amicable with each other but I still do feel sad about him loving the other woman… it really sucks. I do so much inner work for peace and sense of balance but these thoughts just come and bog me down. Has anyone experienced what I feel and how they dealt with it.
Yes Amy I do understand the pain that you are going through. It is really hard but you do have to put you and your children first. The thoughts are hard when they weigh on our broken hearts. I would use the stop sigh approach. When the thoughts would appear I would put up the stop sign in my mind. It really does work.
My now ex and I didn’t separate. He wanted to with the understanding that if it was good out there we would divorce and if it wasn’t good, he’d be back.
I kicked him out and we divorced. Nobody was going to disrespect me like that anymore.