Open House Discussion

Hello everyone!

In our last survey, there was a question that asked if you all had any suggestions for topics that you’d like to see addressed on our site.

One reader had the suggestion for “The occasional ‘open house’ to talk about anything you like.”

We liked that idea very much.

Not only does it allow you all the opportunity to talk about anything that is on your mind, it allows us to not have to come up with a topic this week!  😎

If this goes well, we will continue it as a feature that we will post from time to time.

What would be really great is to get some awesome interaction going.

Another thing…assuming all goes well, what would be a good name for this feature?  Not sure if we’re sold on “Open House,” but we certainly can’t eliminate it.  So throw out your ideas for a name (after posting what you want to talk about) and we’ll take your ideas and pick one.

Thanks so much.

So…what’s on your mind?

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282 Responses to Open House Discussion

  1. chiffchaff August 28, 2013 at 7:35 am #

    ‘Open House’ is a good name IMHO.
    The stuff that’s on my mind at the moment is whether or not I’m happy with the current situation we have. Ostensibly everything’s grand but I’m trying to work out whether I will ever, truly, be able to relax in my marriage again. It isn’t about the OW or anything like that, it’s the character of my H that was revealed by what he did. I constantly worry that if I do a certain thing or say a certain thing he’ll be off again – putting me in a box labelled ‘no fun wife’ and blaming me for difficult periods of life.
    I am a bit stressed at the moment because we’re planning a holiday where we spend the first weekend with his friends and the second weekend with his folks. His friends are nice enough people but these are the same ones that tried to encouraged me to leave him because the OW was ‘the one’ and I ‘shouldn’t get in the way of true happiness for my H’. I don’t really want to go. I want to go on holiday, I just don’t want to see these people. ever. I hate that they know what happened and I secretly feel like they think that the OW would’ve been better for my H than staying with me. But if I say I don’t want to see them then, in the past certainly, my H would get all upset that I didn’t like his friends. Much like in the past these are the same friends that we used to visit and I would be dumped at the door while he went off to ‘have fun’ with them. fun usually meant getting wasted on beer and whisky and then vomiting in the bath.
    My H’s experiences of visiting these friends of his is entirely different to the experience I have when we go there.

    • Battleborn August 28, 2013 at 8:07 am #

      CC, It sounds like your H is still running the show, just as he did with the affair. IMO he doesn’t care one iota about your feelings. This is one time that I would stand up to him and let him know that no, you don’t like his friends, the ones who wanted you to leave so he could have his “true love.” If he is really intune with your marriage and your feelings then he should be able to make the decision very quickly; that you are more important than “having fun” with HIS friends.

      I feel for you as you have an uphill battle on your hands. Honestly your mental and physical health are at stake here. If you go and make the best of it you are just torturing yourself in order to make him happy. Sorry but your H is nothing but selfish about this.

  2. Broken2 August 28, 2013 at 7:50 am #

    Chiffchaff I would never go visit those people and I don’t want to upset you but your husband is selfish for making you do it. Your needs and your comfort should come first.

    • livingonafence September 1, 2013 at 10:58 am #

      Exactly. These friends encouraged his affair. He shouldn’t even be hanging around with them anymore. He lost that right when he decided to bring his girlfriend into the circle. These aren’t friends of your marriage and they aren’t friends of yours. Why is your holiday his friends and then his family? What about your friends and family?
      No, this is wrong. I hope you tell him that his friends are out. That’s not right of him at all. I assume he knows that they told you to back out?

      I do know what you mean about learning more about his character. That’s a really sad part about this. All of our digging often turns up more than just the affair, and usually these hidden areas aren’t pretty.

  3. Gizfield August 28, 2013 at 7:56 am #

    You seem much too dignified for those friends, Chiffchaff. My husband has a group of friends like that from high school. They are about 50 and act just like high school. Everything is an excuse to get together and drink. They went on a canoe trip last weekend and posted a photo on facebook. Someone commented “four fingers and a crotch grab”. Nice. Lucky my husband wants very limited contact with them. (the four fingers were Birds for those not familiar. Very immature)

  4. Strengthrequired August 28, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    I’m sorry chiff, i wouldn’t be so overjoyed at visiting people like that either. Great friends, is all I can say. I can only imagine how uncomfortable visiting them is going to be for you.
    Would be the same.
    I asked my h one day, what would you do if your aunty wanted to see you, or any other of cousin it’s family, what would you say. He said he didn’t know, he hadn’t thought about it, yet he said, I dony think they want to see me anyway after everything that happened. My Rez sone, why would you want to see these people that tried to make you leave your wife and kids? Why would you want to have anything to do with them?
    He just nodded… agreement. I truly hope they don’t call him or want to see him ever again. Is that being bad…lol.
    People who deliberately set out to help someone ruin your marriage, as far as I’m concerned don’t belong in your life.
    It just makes you wonder, what the he’ll they think of us if all this time these people were happy to see our marriages fall apart.
    Hang in there chiff and I wish you all the best….

  5. chiffchaff August 28, 2013 at 9:55 am #

    thanks everyone.
    We’ve had some great holidays since DDay and these have been because they haven’t involved friends or family, to be honest. Adding in a visit to his folks is being sold to me as getting it out of the way so they won’t demand us for Christmas (yeah, right).
    I’m taking my running kit with me and my plan is to get out and run if it becomes too much.

    • tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 1:38 pm #

      OK I couldn’t stay gone for long!!! Chiff, DO NOT GO! These people are not friends of the marriage and certainly NOT of yours. All you are going to be doing for this visit is being witness to a lot of torture directed at you. These are unkind people.

      Are you able to run 24/7?? I doubt it. We used to travel and go out with a lot of people/friends. Since all this I can only do a couple of hours of being with others. And they were friends!! To both him and me. I cannot imagine being with people like this for longer than 10 minutes.

      Tell him he is welcome to go by himself, but you are staying home, and mean it. His decision will tell you a lot! He is being a selfish bully even suggesting it. Totally disrespectful.

      They are NOT your friends and what an asshole thing for them to have said that to you. Write them off forever and let your H know that is what you are doing. Don’t cry just be firm in your resolve when you tell him. What a nerve he has wanting to put you in this situation and calling it a Holiday. Cheap ass bastard!

      You are too classy and sweet to have to spend one minute with these boors.

  6. tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 2:06 pm #

    I think this is a grand idea and takes some stress off you.

    I’m probably in the same place as Chiff Chaff and rest of you who are a couple years out. I keep re-evaluating the relationship. Yes he has done MANY wonderful things, yep I’ve seen lots of changes, yep he’s very attentive, more so than ever, but then I have a memory/trigger and I’m back to thinking I want out. It just isn’t that easy with this stupid, effing business. I think it’s almost harder than if we had young children at home to consider. Seriously a divorce right now would decimate our business, I mean kill it, so this would be no easy decision. WTF was he thinking???

    Does anyone here subscribe to Hope Now? Today’s piece was on breaking off from the affair and it is very enlightening. During those early months I was so deep in my own shock, pain and despair it never even occurred to me what my H was feeling over the break up with her. We’ve talked about it, but OF COURSE he blew it off. Said he didn’t care. The point is NOT whether he cared or not the point is the level of trust in communication. To be able to say “yes, it did bother me, yes I did struggle because she lost her job, car, benefits etc. and here is what I did to deal with it”. I guess I just need real honest dialogue even if he perceives it as being hurtful.

    We hear a lot from the BS and what the CS tells them. I wish some CS’s would come on, even anonymously and tell their story about this. I do think it is probably harder for the women who cheated because women are so stupid about emotions and love, myself included so don’t take offense! Men not so much. Maybe it’s easier to figure out their egos were being stroked while being played for all she could get and that makes it easier to chalk it up as a humongeously poor decision.

    I’m trying really hard not to look at this from my own perspective. Any ideas?

  7. EyesOpened August 28, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    I Like ‘Open House’ – does what it says on the tin!

    TH – hello! Are you ok? This cancer the OW has, has shaken you hasn’t it?

    I had an argument with my h last night because he keeps trying to call me at my new job and I just can’t talk. I was trying to explain that it’s difficult in a new role at close proximity to new colleagues and he flew off the handle screaming about when he found out about my affair – how he’d been interrupted at work etc etc. I stayed calm but feel exhausted as to when the crap I caused will ever end. If he questioned me now about my feelings – I would find it hard to be completely truthful because I just don’t think he can cope with any more pain. Often I just want to walk away to see if he could be happy without me. My hunch is he would find someone much better than me and be the happiest ever – but that kind of thought just won’t come out right no matter how I say it! Controversial I know, but you asked for honesty!

    CC – horrendous situation for you. I’m with TH that you need to stand up for yourself. So what if he thinks this or that? You are awesome and he needs to appreciate that -or lose you. I would book some ‘me time’ or your ‘run’ and leave him to explain whatever reason he comes up with that you’re not there. I think if you care a lot less about what he thinks – HE will care more. If he doesn’t – then life is set to be very unbalanced.

    • tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm #

      Hi Eyes

      I’m good. Yes it has affected me. I have NEVER hated anyone so much! I know all the crap about hating someone and trust me I have prayed and fought it. I even prayed for her recovery. Maybe partly so I can kill her–KIDDING! Really she never did a damn thing to me other than the obvious. She could have been anyone for the affair but it was her and she played her part. I don’t like this part of me. I hate thinking these thoughts and it is all because he chose to have an affair with her. The poor woman has certainly suffered enough and now this cancer. How can someone feel hate and sympathy at the same time? I think I hate my H for putting me in this place. He’s the one that did this to me and her, well not the cancer part. She doesn’t even have insurance to cover her treatments!

      Thank you for your honesty. You have no idea how much it means to me. No it doesn’t hurt. I’m past that.

      Your H still hurts. When we can’t make contact our thoughts go crazy. And by the time he gets home he is ready to boil over. He may or may not be happier without you. Can you keep your cell handy so he can text you? He understands the logistics of the phone calls I’m sure but he’s still fearful and hurting. The bigger question is do you want to stay? Divorcing is not the end of the world. You wouldn’t be divorcing because of someone else which is a stupid reason to divorce, but you would be divorcing because you can’t live with him anymore. If you can do it and really believe you would be happier maybe you should consider it. Life is too short to be miserable right? I’m sure it’s hard for you to be constantly reminded about your faults too.

      I haven’t reacted badly for many months now. I listen calmly and with emotional restraint in order to encourage open dialogue. Not so much in the beginning though. My H is not the type of guy who is too willing to look too deeply into his emotional self. He always has avoided any kind of conflict and is very adept at saying what he thinks others want to hear. This won’t change, he’s too old. I may print the article off and see if he has any comments. I will stay calm, I will stay calm, I will stay calm…

      Stay tuned. Thanks for replying Eyes. How’s the renovation going?

    • livingonafence September 1, 2013 at 11:14 am #

      EO said: I stayed calm but feel exhausted as to when the crap I caused will ever end. If he questioned me now about my feelings – I would find it hard to be completely truthful because I just don’t think he can cope with any more pain.

      EO, I appreciate you coming here and telling your side of the story. I’m going to be honest here but I don’t say it to be cruel or judgemental. I say it so you will see how your words sound and maybe rethink your thinking.

      First, you wonder when this ‘crap’ you caused will end. You add ‘I caused’ so that we all know that you realize this is your doing, but what you really want to know is “When will this crap end.” Well, when does it get to end for your H? When does he get to stop thinking of it? Of you behaving like that with another man? Of you betraying him so deeply? When does it end for him? This statement you make is remarkably selfish and really lacks any empathy for your H. He is in his own mental hell and you want the ‘crap’ to end. How very unfair. Every time he brings it up, or gets upset, or seemingly loses it, he is hurting. All you want is the ‘crap’ to end. I’m sorry, but you cheated. You betrayed someone you promised to love. Hie is tortured by that and torn between hating you for bringing this hell into his life and loving you. Again I ask,when does that get to end?

      You had the fun of the affair and now you want your nice normal life back. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

      Regarding being honest – I often doubt if CSs really want to spare any pain. I believe they don’t want to expose the truth because of the shame associated with it. I believe CSs want to hide from what they did and who they really are, or at least who they are capable of being. If I’m wrong, then don’t worry about bringing more pain into your H’s life. Having your gut scream one thing and someone you love lie and tell you another is far more painful and lasting than just hearing the truth, absorbing it, and deciding what to do with it.

      Just my two cents. Carry on

  8. kelbelly August 28, 2013 at 5:31 pm #

    Hello everyone, Been awhile since I have been on here. Things have been pretty good, Alot of stressful events have happened in our lives and we have handled well together but I feel something is going on with me emotionally and I dont understand it. I have been feeling emotionless toward my H.

    It has been about three months since it happened and it came on gradually but I definitely see and feel it now and am wondering if anyone else has gone through this in their recovery process. My H has not done anything bad and is very attentive but I feel myself pulling emotionally away from him for some reason and I don’t understand it or like it.
    I have no desire for intimacy at all and this is not like me. The last time we were intimate, it took everything I had to get in the mood and then I just wanted it over. That was almost 3 months ago and since then the mood has not even come upon me once.
    I cannot even say it is just my H because I think if someone tried to come on to me, I would punch them in the nose. I am going in for my yearly physical the end of Sept.. If you have gone through something similar, I would really apprieciate hearing how you got through it.

    • tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 6:11 pm #


      Maybe it’s just a phase. You know kids are home for summer, it’s hot, maybe you haven’t been on a date, etc. I go up and down too. I think that’s normal. We have to work at wanting to be intimate with them, now more than ever, right? After so many years it is not like we want to tear their clothes off nor they us! You don’t think you’re just sick of him and all the crap he’s handed out to you do you? It could be that too.

      The reader Paula has had a lot to say about this.

      • kelbelly August 28, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

        Boy Tryinghard, I am not sure what it is. I know we have had a incredibly stressful year with his car accident, the loss of our beloved dog, children moving home, finding out we are going to be grandparents, other kids having difficulties in their relationships, our youngest son with all his sports. I thought going on vacation the last two weeks would bring on something and it didnt.
        And on top of all that, I have this horrible fear that if I dont get sex drive back, it will cause more problems. We are having a great time time othrwise,

        • Tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 6:57 pm #


          Yeah it sounds like its been very busy and stressful! That will have a definite affect on you sex drive. Hell you Gus are tired. But now you are adding more pressure by fearing if you don’t have sex with him he will find it somewhere else. Yep there’s a chance he will cause we all know what cheaters are capable of. Just remember even those with great sex lives cheat. Just try to turn to him and make him important not the problems. He will show it back and then maybe it will start rolling again. Sounds like a phase IMHO. Ummm hormones have a lot to do with it too. Menopause symptoms maybe? OY. I rember that shit show. Imperative to get that sorted out.

      • Paula August 29, 2013 at 12:48 am #

        Okay, I must have felt summonsed, TH, lol 😉 I have talked about this a lot, but unfortunately, I don’t really have a lot of answers, Kel, sorry. I have some past issues that have been keenly reawakened in the aftermath of this. Sex was fab before, during and even more so for two years, after the affair. Then it stopped. I felt dirty, violated and disgusted in myself. I sought sex therapy (didn’t help, seemed too generic, “reconnecting,” non-sexual touch, etc, etc) and I have mourned hard for the loss of this for myself. I don’t want anyone, either. Not him, not me, not anyone. And I have searched and searched for answers. A friend I met on this site a couple of years ago (I KNOW! IT’S BEEN SO LONG!) sent me a link to a webpage the other day. I am not a Christian, she is, but she thought it mentioned my feelings, a bit of the “why” – partly to do with the emotional abuse aspect of an affair, lies, making you feel crazy when they are the ones with the problem, that kind of thing is what I mean. Here is the link: I found it explained some of my difficulties with this. If you are like me and not religious, it still makes sense. The rape analogy was spot on for me.

        I also got my hormone levels tested, as I am mid-40s, but that was not the problem, I know it is a myriad of reasons, some of which I mentioned above, some relating to my earlier rape, some relating to my lack of trust issues surrounding men due to that earlier sexual violation, the fact that I “waited” for the right man – him – and he threw that special gift away like it meant absolutely nothing to him, some relating to my (mistaken) perception that I must be useless in the sack (compared to HER) and that she must be more beautiful/sexy/intelligent (and believe me, not one of those things is true, she is thinner than me, I am an hourglass shape, she is straight up and down) But my sub-conscious is constantly trying to sabotage me. He has told me over and over and over how terrible she was at sex, and I actually believe this, as she was his ex – and my friend – and we talked about it in the early years together, her promiscuity, but lack of skills learned (weird, I thought, I grew up with her, and she had plenty of guys – she also cheated on him with about four guys for around six months before he finally caught her and threw her to the curb) and how he has NEVER had orgasms like the ones we have had for more than two decades, but somehow my mind won’t believe any of that?? Terribly, terribly frustrating, and although I wasn’t so worried this far out about repeat cheating because of lack of sex, of course I totally understand that train of thought. (After all, he was leaving our hot, hot, hot bed, to hop in her one with the cold fish who had no sexual imagination, just lay there, causing his first ever erectile dysfunction, on a very regular basis, a problem he has only ever hesitated briefly with ONCE – and that was DURING THE AFFAIR, riddled with guilt – with me, in fact, I would have said he was one of the last people who would ever experience it, a very virile and intensely sexual being.) So I know that loads of top quality sex does not stop a man from cheating, and he is not always after better, just different, and someone to fawn over his stupid little ego, yuck, yuck, yuck!

        I hope you find some peace surrounding this, Kel, keep in touch xx

  9. C August 28, 2013 at 5:37 pm #

    This is my first time commenting but I thought the “Open House” was good opportunity to share/vent/complain in the hope some of you would have some positive insight to help me out of a funk.

    It’s been 4 1/2 months since D-DAY, and 1 month since I insisted my H make a choice, OW or me. For over 3 months I tried to be patient and allow him time to decide if he wanted to stay married, or go try it out with OW. It was the most painful time of my life, living with my husband while he carried on his EA. But it was important to me that I didn’t force/rush a decision on his part. I only wanted to be with him if he truly wanted to be with me. After a series of lies over the course of a few days, I gave the ultimatum and he chose to stay and work on the marriage, and reluctantly ended his EA with the OW.

    For the past month, I’ve been living with my husband who has a broken heart after ending his relationship with the OW. It has been excruciating. When we are together, he is doing everything he can to show me he wants to be with me, even though I know he doesn’t have the same feelings for me that he did when we first met, or the same feelings he had for the OW. When we are apart and he is alone, he has told me that he has difficulty and things about her and mourns the loss of his relationship with her.

    I know that he cares about me and “loves” me. We’ve been together almost 20 years (married 12) and I think we still consider each other best friends. We have a new baby and we are wonderful parents and I know we will be whether we are together or apart. But I miss feeling “romantically” loved by him and I question whether he will ever feel that way about me again. I desperately want that and contemplating ending it with him because he can’t give that to me is not something I feel capable of doing right now. And I also know that it may take time for those feelings to rekindle.

    How long should I let him grieve? Is it possible to regain those feelings of romantic love when the trust has been broken? When you know that he fell in love with someone else? When you know that he still thinks about that other person and their relationship with such fondness and respect? Will I ever feel safe and secure again in a relationship with him?

    • Lynsey August 29, 2013 at 7:49 am #

      Hello C, My story is very similar to yours so I’ll share what I know. It’s been a very short time since D-Day for you and your H. This is a very long healing process with many ups and downs along the way. It’s very frustrating and there are no easy answers or magic cures. My H continued his EA after D-Day until the OW and he had a fight and when she came to my place of work. The Affair Fog ended that day. My H did grieve-I could see that. I knew I had to let him grieve, even though it was so hurtful to me. But, my H was really finally trying to repair our relationship by being attentive again, and he even suggested counseling which we did. We found a great therapist who worked with both of us, and then my H continued on with individual counseling. If you aren’t in couples therapy, I’d suggest it, or at the very least, your H should be talking to a counselor to sort out his feelings. I know my H felt sadness at the loss of his relationship with the OW parasite. He was jolted out of the affair fog and began to see the OW as the parasite that she is. He was also feeling guilty and embarrassed for what he had done to me and our finances. (she conned him out of alot of money via gifts and cash). It is excruciating to live with someone who is mourning another. But you said he is trying to work on the relationship. Hold on and notice the little things that he does for you. Continue working on you. It takes time, a very long time. Your old marriage is gone and it will never be like that again so let that go. Work on moving forward with your H if that is what you want. You, and everyone in this situation has been able to find an enormous amount of inner strength and patience. Use it to make your “new” marriage even better.

  10. tryinghard August 28, 2013 at 6:07 pm #

    Here is the link to the Hope Now article about breaking it off with the OW. I think you will find it very helpful. You H is mourning and that won’t help you heal. He is being honest with you and there is something to be said about that. He’s struggling with this as much as your are. BTW 6 months is NOT a long time in the healing process. Everyone is still raw. I did not know that at the time. Hell my H wanted it to be over the day after he told me everything. He’s also missing the high of having 2 women fighting over him. Lots of emotional stuff going on. Hang in there.

  11. Gizfield August 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    Kelbelly, I have/am going through this myself. I dont really see it changing in myself. Basically, my hub lied to me a period of a couple of years about contacting his skank. In October 2011, I confronted the bitch. I also told him if I caught him contacting her ass again I was DONE with him. June 2012 caught him. Tossed him out a couple of times, I’m thinking he straightened out but it’s just a little too little a little too late, lol. He wormed his way back but the last time I caught him just like the Grinch, my heart turned kinda black toward him and shrunk a couple of sizes. That, people, is the REAL KARMA, not what happens to some skanky whore. I could divorce him but really, why bother? I don’t want anyone else, and I dont want to raise my daughter by myself. I also do not want my daughter exposed to any road whores either. I have some one to call or text if I’m lonely, someone to help around the house, a father for my child. We go places, do things, I enjoy his company. I love him like my family now, sometimes more, but usually not :~). Thats just the way it is. I have no regrets for my choices. If he “loves” me like he says he does, that is Karma too, cause like I said I’m DONE with that.

  12. EyesOpened August 29, 2013 at 2:52 am #

    Hey TH – I totally get the hate/sympathy thing. You are obviously an amazingly empathetic person and you just can’t help but care about others. Your comments are always so very very fair and rounded too and it’s this amazing ability you have to view from anothers perspective. Of course you are allowed to be deeply angry at that woman – but you are also experiencing compassion for another human. You are a very special person indeed – and I truly hope you don’t feel any guilt for your venom towards her. You obviously care enough about so many other people. You’re a good, kind and loving person who did not deserve this. If the same awful thing happened to my body – I would EXPECT my APs W to be happy – she hates me so much. You have true compassion and ANY bad feelings towards that woman are utterly justified – particularly as you are clever enough to place blame justly, fairly and intelligently on all levels.

  13. EyesOpened August 29, 2013 at 2:54 am #

    Ps TH Finally got first building quote through. Permitted development for too floor approved. Downstairs planning permission knocked back! Feeling like things are moving forward though FINALLY!!

  14. EyesOpened August 29, 2013 at 3:26 am #

    The whole sex debate is fascinating to me. I am a CS and one of my pre-affair issues was not wanting sex with my h. He wanted it all the time and I just lay there for years. During affair – sex with h improved because of fantasy in my head and feelings of ‘fantasy happiness’. Since Dday I have been through counselling and become a stronger person but as part of this process have just ‘shut down’ sexually. I feel so guilty for all the crap and hate myself but just don’t want to have sex if I don’t want it. I am trying to figure out if loads of people just live like this and get on with it regardless of desire – or whether Im a freak. My h is being punished over and over but my deep problem is – I couldn’t care less if I never get intimate with anyone again. The ONLY reason to make an effort is to make my h happy – which is a good reason but its one of the things I blame for our marriage downfall and am scared to reinstate it in case the whole horrible ordeal tears us apart again. Meanwhile h is trying to be patient as best he can but really suffering ( been 3 weeks to put this in perspective). He is already talking about finding it elsewhere because he is so ‘uncomfortable’. I just don’t want to go there. I have previously suggested he tries to find sex outside the marriage and we can just stay as friends and love each other forever but I just don’t think I can be a lover again. He says he wants all or nothing ( ie stay and love him and be intimate or he will leave and cut off ALL contact) … But where does that leave the kids?

    Really not expecting any advice at all as my situation is so different from all on here – and I’m aware I deserve my problems – but let’s face it – sex is mighty intriguing no matter who is or isn’t at it!! You did say open house!!!

  15. Gizfield August 29, 2013 at 7:55 am #

    One thing I have noticed about myself through the years , and I’ve never discussed it with anyone, so I dont know if it’s normal or not but my interest in sex has always varied WILDLY. Even when I was young sometimes I would go months not even thinking about it, and sometimes I was a complete slut (not sleeping around, just with the same guy). I dont think it is the indicator of “relationship strength” some people feel it to be. It has usually just kept me in bad relationships, lllll. Hormones have soooo much to do with this. I am 54 years old, and had menopause about a year after my husbands cheating was revealed. Interest in sex had increased for years, but after catching him in contact with Skank last summer, I could care less. It’s great, I csn take it or leave it, very liberating…

  16. Battleborn August 29, 2013 at 7:56 am #

    LOAF, You such an inspiration to many of us. The no-nonsense talk that you send out is usually right whether we want to admit it ourselves or not. Besides, some of it is pure wit and makes us laugh.

    Once again as I have said many times before, if someone doesn’t like or need the advice given on this site, then don’t take it. We all have the same goal, give our opinion and perhaps it will help someone. NO ONE is required to take anothers advice.

    As for apologizing for your bad week, don’t. We have all been there and done it. I am sorry that little t and bsa have decided that you are tortured soul… aren’t we all because of our CS?

    I, for one, am glad that someone takes the bull by the horns and lays it on the line. You state what I wish I had the guts to say to some here. No offense… LOL

    Love you LOAF! Carry on with your insight and wicked, wicked ways!!!!!!!!!!! :}

  17. our journey August 29, 2013 at 7:57 am #

    I agree with TH. Check out the affair recovery article.

    My WS participated in their “Hope for Healing.” He said it was the best money he ever spent. (They let you break it up into payments.) He also said it was better than any counseling he received. Having said that, he wasn’t in the deep mourning you describe, but I would still check it out. Copy and paste this link to get the information for it:

    We were 18 months after DDay when he started. I wish he had started sooner.

  18. Gizfield August 29, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    My lack of interest in sex was very sudden too, like a switch had been thrown to Off. I think another factor people who question their relationship have is this: you just get damn tired of rewarding a cheater, lol. You read all these books, and work on yourself (even though you are not/were not the problem), and think you have to be a little sex slave to boot, so they wont “stray”. Like I said I got damn tired of the effort.

  19. E August 29, 2013 at 9:06 am #

    I’ve been away from this site for quite a while now, but I am looking for a little help and encouragement this morning  and since the discussion is “open” to anything I thought it might be a good opportunity. Quick background, I am well into recovery (2 yrs +), reconciled with my husband, our marriage is stronger than it’s ever been (married 25 yrs +) and we are certainly closer than we’ve ever been. My husband has and continues to do everything right when it comes to our recovery, there isn’t any reason for me to doubt him, we are way beyond that. As you all know, however, the trauma of an affair never really goes away we just learn to accept it as part of our past and use the pain for healing and improvement (for those new to recovery – yes, this can happen!). So here is my problem … the OW still continues to try to contact my husband. Not often, but every few months or so, or when she gets an opportunity). They are very subtle attempts, e-mails with small talk, etc. (no way to avoid her having his e-mail address, btw) They are certainly not stalking or harassment, or anything like that. My husband ignores these attempts of contact and does not respond to her …but yet she still continues. I believe she thinks she can still try to be friends with him, that in her mind that is perfectly acceptable – this is not acceptable to me, of course. I can’t help wondering whether or not she will ever go away. So do I just let this go? I believe I need to … but difficult to do.

    • chiffchaff August 29, 2013 at 10:34 am #

      If the contact is always by email then your H needs to put her email address(es) on a ‘junk’ list so they go straight to delete. problem sorted. you can’t stop her trying but you prevent having to even see them.

  20. Tryinghard August 29, 2013 at 10:14 am #

    This one’s easy. No you do not let it go. Good everything is good with H and the recovery but rember there were two people in the affair. He may be over it but she isn’t. This is passive/aggressive behavior. She’s throwing it out there. Do not put your head in the sand about this. It is too dangerous. Respond to her email
    Please do not ever contact us again. We are not interested in anything you have to say
    John and Jane Doe

    This way she knows you are seeing the mails. She’s smart she knows not to say anything inflammatory. If she responds again send another meaner email signed from the both of you again. You need to embarrass her. She has an agenda and its not Just Being Friends. You ignored the red flags before. Don’t do it again

  21. Broken2 August 29, 2013 at 10:21 am #

    Kelbelly…..yes on the flat emotions. I went through it too…it will pass. Hang in there just ride with it.

  22. Gizfield August 29, 2013 at 10:25 am #

    I agreewith trying hard. She is just trying to reinsert herself into your world, where she does not belong. My H Skank did the same thing. “how are YOU??” “the sky is blue” ” it’s the WEEKEND”, “I love sushi”. Anything to make contact. Can you add her to your spam list so you never even see them?

  23. tryinghard August 29, 2013 at 11:27 am #

    Yeah you could send it to junk mail. Even better is to block her but she needs to hear from you that you and your H do not think she is cute, funny or interesting. No Contact means No Contact. She is contacting. She needs to be told to stop. If she’s blocked or sent to junk mail she thinks she is still relevant. I’m sorry some people just don’t/won’t get it till they are told.

  24. E August 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    Thank you all!! Great advice, I had not thought of the junk mail idea. Tryinghard – I totally agree with you also. That is exactly where the conversation with my husband and I ended last night, that he/we would respond instead of ignoring (since that has not worked), and it would be short, direct and would make it clear that she needs to stop attempting contact. If she still continues, that’s got to be grounds for something, right? Feeling better already 🙂

    • tryinghard August 29, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

      Absolutely!! And that is why you want to keep the email string. You can take that and get a restraining order against her. It will cost you but it will be worth it. So happy your H is in agreement with you on this. Ignoring may be taking the high road, the right thing, the easy thing, etc. whatever and blah blah blah… But sometimes you have to show your teeth!!!! I would not take this as being something innocent. IMHO!!!!

    • Teresa August 31, 2013 at 3:13 am #

      E…respond and tell her this “Skank, your emails to us are really very boring, so boring in fact, we are now designating them to junk mail status…because thats what they are…junk.
      We are now off to Hawaii, for sun, sand and sex! Life IS good! Why don’t you try to get one??

      Mr and Mrs. Perfect Couple!

      LOL!!! Now, wouldn’t that be fun??

      • Tryinghard August 31, 2013 at 9:18 am #

        HAHA. That is freaking awesome! Do it just like that E. it’s perfect and says it all.

  25. Paula August 29, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    E, we had this issue for over two years, and mostly it was ignored, but occasionally, with my knowledge, he would reply – I told him to starve her of oxygen, but later on, when it didn’t stop, he would reply – always with the message, we are done, move on, you are making a fool of yourself now, let us heal, do not contact either of us again. She was told by several people to stop. Telling them to stop often doesn’t work, like a child, ANY attention was good attention to this nutter. I asked him to change his phone number (she contacted him via text – we never let her have our email address, and he doesn’t really use email or social networks – old school farmer!) It took until we were into the third year for him to realise this. He did it, we have never heard from her again. She didn’t have the contacts to discover his new number, and she was scared of me (I think, either that or I didn’t exist to her) so never got in touch with me. Cut them off, don’t let them hurt you further, block her or change addresses.

    • E August 30, 2013 at 9:17 am #

      All good thoughts Paula, thank you. Maybe when we get to that third year, she will finally go away. I think she lives in her own dream world, that I don’t exist, and that she still has a chance.

      • Strengthrequired August 30, 2013 at 11:30 am #

        That’s how we all got here, we didn’t exist in the sick and twisted mind of the ow.

  26. Disappointed August 30, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

    I am the first to blame the OW who actively pursued my husband, but in truth the only reason we are here is because we ceased to exist in the mind and heart of our spouse. That’s why the pain is so great and lingers on and on.

    • Teresa August 31, 2013 at 3:18 am #

      Correct Disappointed! We stopped existing in the mind of our partners. I can’t stand the cow who my H had the EA with..primarily because she isn’t a bit sorry for her behavior.
      But my H is responsible for his behavior towards me…and that’s what hurts. That I was no longer foremost in his mind, that he never considered the pain his “secret life” would cause me, because he never planned to be discovered.
      He was content to live a lie for the rest of his life….how pathetic and sad.

    • Linda T January 10, 2014 at 1:13 am #

      As I have read all these sad, some uplifting comments, yours hit it on the head for me. I keep asking myself 25 yrs. after I found out about the A, WHY! I loved him so much, showed him love, attention, flattery, built him up, was not good but great in bed. I can’t think of anything he was lacking. I loved him as much 25 yrs. later as the day I married him, if not more as we had worked so hard together to be where we were. So what was the reason he strayed? I would have bet a million bucks this would have never happened and to say that I was shocked after finding out doesn’t even touch the surface.Yes, I still blame the OW as she actively flirted with my drinking husband at a business convention and they both worked for the same company, just different offices. She eventually got to the headquarter’s building where he saw her more. He loved this kind of attention, he was 40, we had been married 23 yrs. and no one had come on to him like this. He was the executive and she was a secretary, married with 2 children. We have 3, not that it matters, but 2 were still living at home and this 3 yr. A really affected her as she was a Daddy’s girl. but he made the phone call (she could have suggested it) to get together for lunch sometime. He called her and that’s where it started. So your accurate comment, “The only reason we are here is because we ceased to exist in the mind and heart of our spouse. That’s why the pain is so great and linger’s on and on.” PERFECTLY SAID! Otherwise, why wouldn’t they have thought of that loving spouse at home before acting on an impulse that could destroy their family, work and everything they had built together that should have mattered to them. Thanks for opening my mind to the perfect reason.


  27. Tryinghard September 1, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    Boy said a lot there LOTF

    When it gets down to it it’s not only the affair it’s the sneaky , lying character flaws that precipitated it. No they don’t want to look at it and frankly we don’t either otherwise we would have all fled. Instead we stay out of “love”, obligation, money, children you name it. I’ve had to look deeply into my own character as to what character flaws I have to give him a third / fourth chance at this. Yes they want the crap to end because it is too overwhelming to face your demons. With or without us they have to face their demons and fix them before they end up killing themselves. Many CS do just that and I know I could not live with myself if my H did that. I would probably follow suit! That’s a big thing to say. I would just feel too guilty for leaving him when he needed me. He threatened it to his sister when I filed for divorce and that’s when I went to the office and had a showdown with the O W. yep it was embarrassing but I do not regret it. That was the start of his awakening from his “fog”. It took a strong person like me to tell her get the eff out. Took 2 months but she’s gone!

    Now today I have to go to a party that my MIL is throwing. The same MIL that came to my house and had a full blown narcissistic blow out in front of my grandson. The one who has accused me of stealing from her. My H doesn’t want to go either but doesn’t have the will to say no to her. UGH. How much more ignoring, forgiving or tolerating am I really expected to give for this family? I’m sick of all their sick twisted asses. Oh yeah I forgot last weekend I got to spend 4 hours in the ERIC with my sister in law (who is really a very kind, loving woman, but with a major drinking problem because of their family dysfunction) was so drunk, off the charts alcohol level, we thought she was going to die! Yep I may call a spade a spade but its only because no one else will!

    Sorry for the rant, not feeling it today. I need to go to the office and take care of what takes care of me instead of going to patronize this sick egotistical blowhard nut my H calls Mom.

    Hhhmm I think I am just going to fantasize about a one bedroom cottage for just me and my books…..

  28. Gizfield September 1, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    I dont think the CS, in most cases, wants to avoid discussing the affair because it was so “wonderful” or the affair partner is do “special” etc. I think it is because any way you go at it, it is an admission of FAILURE. if it was not great, special, true love, etc. but you risked everything important for no thing, it is FAILURE. if the AP is your “soulmate” , special, true love, blah, blah, blah but you are still married to someone else, that is FAILURE as well. Who would want to talk about it???

    • Theresa October 21, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

      Do you think it’s also way to control us (the betrayed spouse)?

  29. Tryinghard September 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    Well that is one way of looking at it but I have failed and failed greatly. I lost my business. Had to shut Dow and personally ate the loss. It was one of the most horrendous experiences of my life. Yes I had shame , guilt, embarrassment all the same feelings my H has about his “failure”. But we talk and talked about it. I learned a lot from that failure. I always do. I never wanted that to just go away. I wish it hadn’t happened but so much was put of my control. The affair was totally in his control. I believe talking about you failures helps you learn and grow. No this is much more than not wanting to talk about a failure. Yes they failed us but mostly they failed themselves and one is only living in a fools paradise by not acknowledging, and delving into their emotions or needs to explain why they chose a road to failure.

  30. Gizfield September 1, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    Trying hard, it’s great that you talk about it if thats what you want. I do think cheating is a “special” kind of failure, separate from whatever else is going on in your life. No legitimate except for it. I say that as a former cheater.complete failure.

  31. Left behind September 1, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Can anyone provide suggestions on how to deal with the pain of the knowing that the OW is getting to do 1st with my child in place of me. It hurts so much that my baby girl (2 1/2) is having these special moments with her instead of me.

    • Doug September 3, 2013 at 11:29 am #

      Left Behind, Perhaps you can provide a little more detail on your situation. Forgive me if you have previously.

  32. EyesOpened September 2, 2013 at 3:56 am #

    LOAF – even if it is going to hurt – I really appreciate your perspective – thank you. The reason I come to this site is to try to FEEL the pain I caused my h. I know it on an intellectual level but there is something wrong with me that I can’t feel it.

    It seems also that I appear to be the only CS that has cropped up on here for a while. Honestly , my thinking is that if I raise my head above the ground – another CS might chip in. I could go easily to another site and have my actions and feelings validated – but I know I’m wrong and I am working so hard to make amends . My h is incredible in his reaction – too good on so many levels …. We made some good progress over the w/e after he’d been to see a counsellor – who explained to him that I had pulled away and let go completely, emotionally and that without our kids I would no longer be with him. It made him see the effort that I have put in too – post affair – to save our marriage.

    I am aware that some of the things I say will make blood boil on this site – but in the way that I am trying to learn from you – I really hope that in my being honest (even if it does not meet with everyone’s approval ) that others may benefit from honest insight.

    It’s a bit egotistical of me (and yes I am fully aware of the fact that as a CS that is a bit of a given) – but when I read through everyone’s posts and ‘take’ so much from this site – I feel compelled to ‘give’ back. I could write all the things that I know you want to hear, and construct all my posts clinically and carefully so as not to offend – but no one would gain any real insight then. The reason I can’t be honest all the time with my h is my fear. My fear of all the things you have listed above (facing my failiure, admitting my selfishness etc) as well as my fear of hurting him more.

    I promise you there are hundreds of sites (and people) who will tell me I did nothing wrong, I was justified in my actions etc etc… But I choose this one. The one that proves I was wrong, viscous, selfish and that I should try to keep my marriage together. THAT is the path I’ve chosen and I’m sticking with. I don’t always FEEL it – but looking at all your posts – I will get there eventually – I just need to keep working at it.

    Your comments are valid and respectful LOAF – and again I thank you and appreciate it.

    I think cheaters do not post here because they feel that unless they say what everyone wants to hear – they will be chased off the blog – and frankly if I conform – then none of my posts will be of any benefit to anyone!

    I’ve said before that my posts on here are selfish – by my feeling like I might be helping – I feel as if something good might possibly come out of something bad.

    Honestly – if just one person asked me not to post – I would stop immediately – because the last thing I want to do is cause additional pain.

    Part of what I am trying to grasp is why the heck my h even wants me any more. It’s baffling to me – but I appreciate all his effort. My feeling is that he should just say ‘to hell with you, you lying, cheating b-&ch’ but he doesn’t – he says he loves me, likes me, that I’m the kindest, most gentle wife and mother he knows and that he just wants to ‘start again’ ….. So when we do start again he yells at me…… So I do ‘get it’ because I read all your posts. And for that I am truly grateful.

    So sorry that one went on a bit – but I hope it helps to clarify.

    Finally a thank you to EVERYONE on here I know it can’t be easy. I am not sure I would be as accepting if the shoe were on the other foot.

    • Doug September 2, 2013 at 10:47 am #


      Many people from our survey commented that they wished that more CS posted of the site. So your view points are indeed valuable and desired. Remember that only about 1% of the visitors post comments but I know that many, many more read them. Keep posting!!!

      • Tryinghard September 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm #


        So are you saying 99% of your readers are “creepers”? Yikes!

        • Doug September 2, 2013 at 6:10 pm #

          HA! Not creepers, just shy!

    • theresa September 4, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

      I’d like to say thank you. It can’t be easy to say things knowing you will get blasted for. After typing that last period, do you take a deep breath? what kind of armor are you wearing when you open this back up? Your experience and insight has been invaluable.
      But, and I hesitate to say this is ….we need more men. We need their insight. Doug, sorry. You’re just not enough.
      Gizfield, my thanks to you also.

      • Doug September 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

        No need to apologize. I agree 100%!

  33. Gizfield September 2, 2013 at 8:10 am #

    Eyes Opened, you are not the only Cheater who posts on here. I am a “reformed” Cheater myself. I have posted directly to you in the past myself. I say EXACTLY what I think, and I have taken a lot of “feedback” for it but thats all right. I’ll be honest with you, one reason Cheaters dont post much is that they dont have much to say. My first husband was an alcoholic, so being the dutiful caring wife I was, I read everything I could on helping an alcoholic. I soon learned one thing, no matter how special they thoughttheir story was, it was just like all the others. Only the names have been changed. Same with Cheaters. Only the names have been changed.

  34. Tryinghard September 2, 2013 at 10:23 am #

    I think I have been one of your biggest advocates here. Please don’t leave and please keep saying what you feel. I wish you would lose your fear of saying what you believe to be true for you to us and especially to your H. We’ve all said I’d rather be smacked with the truth than kissed with a lie. I think my H did that in the beginning when he was grieving the loss of his lover no matter what he has realized about her character since the fog was lifted. The grieving was just a fact of that time. I also believe that grieving was mixed with a lot of negative emotions as well. We’ve weathered that storm. Yes it hurts to think of my H grieving another woman but I had to face it to move on.

    Second I do not advocate staying in a marriage at all costs. I think divorce is sometimes the best answer. What I will never advocate is cheating under any circumstance. If you are so unhappy in a marriage get the eff out first.

    Third I believing cheating is much different for a man than for a woman. Women but so much emotion into their love lives. Men do not, therefore I believe when a woman cheats she has already emotionally left the marriage and that is a very hard thing for a woman to get back. That being said I am baffled you are still in your marriage since it seems as though you are only there out of obligation. You may “love” your husband but maybe not the way you should. Can you give hime the kind of wife he wants and deserves. When a wife cheats her husband takes that as an attack on his masculinity. They get mad when that happens. I don’t believe you when you say you have no empathy for his feelings. You do come across as being very kind and gentle. Maybe that’s how you got in you mess with the OM?

    I hope you hear me when I tell you I do not judge you. Yours are always the first posts I look for. You have never said anything that offends me and if you have I want you to not care! That is your right and everyone’s right here. We don’t always have to agree. Matter of fact it’s better if we don’t. How boring would a discussion be if everyone came to a subject matter from the same place?
    I hope I have helped you and given you things to think about too. I’ve appreciated so many people on this site, cheaters, betrayed all. Even some of the cheaters who I have reamed have taught me great lessons in helping me move forward. And to those CS that that don’t post, you are chicken shits, IMHO! You Eyes are not a chicken shit and for that reason alone you have my great respect! Not all betrayed spouses are simpering whining women. We are strong smart women who just happen to be married to lying fools. I hope you aren’t judging us all in one basket either.
    I totally get when you question when will this crap be over, well actually never. It is the black holes in all our marriages and it will be a constant daily struggle dealing with it and facing it. I make a conscience decision every single day since I found out to stay in this marriage. Yes why is the constant question but I am aware of my whys. You can’t question why he does you can only question why you do. Hugs to you and don’t drop out.

  35. EyesOpened September 2, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

    TH – you are one of my biggest advocates, and your no-frills responses are so full of good advice. You are strong, wise and I really feel like you appreciate my posts (but I appreciate yours more)!

    I am keen not to look like I am saying ‘please ask me to stay’ like some needy attention seeker – just want to ensure it doesn’t just look like I’m posting away thoughtlessly !

    However – I have taken your words to heart and will try not to care so much :-)!

    With regards to the other points you’ve mentioned – you do seem to have an incredible understanding (and as i have mentioned before TH an unbelievable empathy which I have not witnessed previously) You really make me THINK. Maybe I’ll employ you as my counsellor!!!!

  36. EyesOpened September 2, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

    Doug – thank you for your support.

    Gizfield – I keep forgetting you are a CS – sorry!

    LOAF you were very encouraging with your response earlier as well as flagging up how my words appear – so thank you for that.

    Thank you all for having me in your open house and letting me share too!

    • Linda T January 10, 2014 at 1:42 am #

      Would you mind letting me know when you first did a post and if you told you story on how and why you became a CS? I haven’t been on here but off and on as I tried to stay away for a while to give my brain a rest from the stress of trying to stay in a 52 yr. marriage after finding out that my CH who I loved so much betrayed me for 3 yrs. I only found out because the OWH sent me the love letters that my CH wrote on her 3 birthday cards. It took 5 yrs. of therapy, we both went, but he really didn’t participate. I basically did all the work and he went to appease me. After being lied to for almost a yr. with trickle truth did I discover that his one yr. A was actually a 3 yr. one, consisting of 2 weekends also. So I went through 4 D-days. Almost took my life twice and would have if it hadn’t been for my 3 children and twin grandson’s. It wasn’t because of my CH, I just couldn’t handle the stress, pain, depression and disappointment of what he had done and what we had lost due to his A with a married woman with 2 little girls, whom he had the audacity to take me to their home for a Christmas party. Now 25 yrs. later, due to his continued drinking (not a falling down drunk, but an alcoholic just the same) anger, loss of money in the stock market and not wanting to make love to me again for up to 3 months. I didn’t know what was happening as I didn’t suspect the first A as I never though he would do that to me. So this time I knew the signs and I became suspicious as the behavior was almost identical. He wasn’t having an A however, it was just as I mentioned and his hormones were out also. So fast forward about 2 yrs. he has given up drinking, still has anger issues as now I want answer’s to the questions that I never got 25 yrs. ago and he claims to have forgotten so much of what went on between them and how much he loved her. I don’t know when your A happened and how long ago it was, but I would be curious to know if you remember what you did with the other person, if you were in bed with them. How strong your feelings were for this person. Did you have a hard time ending it and did you still think about them months later? So you can see why I really need to read your story. I’m thinking of separating as I can’s even stand the sight of him anymore. I can’t imagine how he could look me in the eyes, make love, laugh, etc., while cheating on me behind my back? I know that it’s not in me to be able to do that and live with myself. Thanks for listening and reading my book. Glad that you are on here and as all the other’s have said, “Please don’t leave.”

  37. Tryinghard September 2, 2013 at 2:28 pm #

    LOL Eyes you could do much better for a counselor! Curiously a counselor will say something and I will look at it cynically like they are saying so I don’t go out and swallow a bottle of pills or something. But if someone observes through my words they are understanding me on a deeper level and I take their words much more seriously. It’s like we already have the answers and you guys validate them.

    I’m glad I’ve said things that make sense to you. I hope I’ve helped and made you look at the situation through a different lens.

  38. EyesOpened September 2, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    TH – you have helped me beyond belief. Thank you so very much .

  39. tryinghard September 2, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    Doug and Linda

    I have something I would like to submit to you for your next Open House forum. Maybe not even in the Open House part you could use it however you like. How do I go about sending it to you to publish? What I have in mind is a subject that has not ever been broached on any of the comments and will be funny in nature. HA imagine that!!!

    • Strengthrequired September 2, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

      Imagine that TH…….. We could all do with a good laugh. A good laugh is good for the healing soul.

    • Doug September 2, 2013 at 6:10 pm #

      TH, Sounds great! If you look to the right (sidebar) of the page there is a little picture of an envelope where it says “Connect With Us” You can send it to that address. Sorry I can’t be more direct but if I type our email address out, we’ll get bombarded with spam. Looking forward to seeing what you have put together.

  40. Strengthrequired September 2, 2013 at 4:55 pm #

    Eyes, just want you to know that what you post is also something I look for. I have seen you become a stronger woman since the day you first posted, a woman that is moving into a better place day b day.
    I would be saddened to no longer see your posts. As I have mentioned to you before, you have helped me understand the cs before, during and after the affair. So for that I will thank you again.
    Don’t hold back on your feelings, tell us how you feel, better out then in.
    TH is full of great words of wisdom…. As is loaf, gizfield, ( love you ladies) but we may not all agree at times, and that’s fine. Its the support from everyone here that keeps us moving forward through our healing, we may be mostly betrayed spouses here, but you as a cheating spouse needs healing too, we learn from each other. You are such an inspiration to me, because you are here, when not many cs are. You have what it takes to make a difference to the lives of so many because you have opened up, just like Doug ( and Linda of course). I will say it again, I’m proud of you.
    As for your h, keep reassuring him, he has been greatly hurt, so when he has his triggers, be understanding with him, as with time these triggers will become less. We all have alot of healing to do, so don’t be hard on yourself either, it is going to take time to rebuild what was lost, the memories may not go away, but it doesn’t have to rule our lives, and it doesn’t have to define you, it doesn’t have to leave us labelled as either a betrayed spouse or a cheating spouse for the rest of our lives. We all do things we regret, it doesn’t make us a bad person, not if we learn from them.
    You need to let go of all your guilt, start rebuilding your marriage, go out on some date nights or something if you haven’t already, get that intimacy back, look back on some of your old photos of you both and remember the good old days of when you fell in love. How much you wanted him and he wanted you.
    I believe you are holding back, because of the guilt, you feel. Let go of that guilt. Your h wants you, he sees you as the wonderful person you are, now you need to see yourself as the wonderful mother and wife you are, one that has made a terrible mistake only, and move forward, don’t let your mistake hold you back from experiencing the love you deserve with your h. That’s if he is what you want. Just do yourself and your h a favor though, don’t stay together for the wrong reasons. Stay together because he is what you want…..

  41. EyesOpened September 3, 2013 at 2:24 am #

    SR – you are too lovely for words. I think the ‘not defining ourselves’ is something I’ll take away today. I’m not going to define myself as a person I don’t like any more – I’m going to redefine myself as someone I do like! I am so glad to have ‘met’ you, TH and ALL the others. The input of everyone’s comments is what makes Doug and Linda’s site worth coming to.

    Thank you so much SR. You’ve seemed quiet recently – so nice to see you back. Hope you are getting some of the happiness you deserve .

  42. Strengthrequired September 3, 2013 at 5:17 am #

    Thank you EO. I have mostly been reading, at times I start to post but i end up deleting it. Strange I just can’t seem to find the words I am happy with, without thinking I can’t post this.

    So much going on, we are trying hard not to lose our home. Some health issues for me too, which I’m just not sure I want to do the further testing, I’m worried what might show up. So just a few things going on in my mind, that has me hesitate posting.

    Please keep posting…. I’ve noticed when I type something, even if I delete it, it’s like a load has been lifted off my shoulders, until the next time anyway.

    Be good to yourself…..

    • forcryin'outloud September 3, 2013 at 9:11 am #

      I’m glad I’m not the only “post deleter.” I’ve probably written three times as many comments than what I’ve actually posted. I’ve finally realized my self confidence is completely gone. Often times I read how strong some people have become and wonder where my train derailed. Too much upheaval and the death of my Dad has sucked the life out of me. Plus we may have to move to another state, again.
      I get what you’re saying about your health, but take care of yourself. You’re so kind and gentle of spirit which I find inspirational.

  43. Gizfield September 3, 2013 at 9:21 am #

    Lol. I ALWAYS post from my android phone, and it loves to delete stuff for you. it just disappears right before your eyes. If I’m writing something long I usually break it into several parts.

  44. EyesOpened September 3, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    SR – I am so sorry to hear about the house and the illness. How much does someone have to deal with in one life?! You must be exhausted through and through. I know something amazingly wonderful will happen to you to make up for all this one day. I just hope it’s soon. Big cyber hugs over the ocean to you.

  45. Left behind September 4, 2013 at 12:07 pm #

    Doug, the other day was the 1st time I had ever posted. I had been directed to your web site little over a year ago, when my niece felt very strongly that I had described my husband as having an emotional affair with his co-worker. After reading the story on your opening page, I agreed with her, and had printed the story & shared it with my husband. He of course adamantly denied he was. However, by my sharing your story, he too became knowledgeable of your website, so I was leery of posting. Our divorce was finalized last week, so I guess there is now nothing to loose by sharing more of my story.

    I 1st became aware of the OW when I was pregnant with our daughter. Her and my husband became close through their involment in our union. He had become the assembly president & she is the Vice President. We all three work for the same employer, but each of us works in a different office. The summer I was pregnant with our daughter, other union members tried to have the OW ousted from her position, because of her alleged collusion with management. In the midst of that scandal she was also accused of breaking up another co-workers marriage. My husband defended her, and kept her from loosing her position in the union. I of course became uncomfortable with their relationship & asked that he stop speaking with her so much. He told me I had no right to tell him who he could or could not be friends with, & said I was just buying into the rumors about her & I was just being insecure. Within just a few months of our daughter being born, both of our mothers were dignosed with cancer & both passed away within the same year; his July 2011, mine December 2011. He then told me February 2012 that he was divorcing me, but continued to deny it was because of the OW. That spring I told him that he had to leave our home, because it was indecent for him to continue living with my daughter & I while pursuing his new conquest. His father then bought him a house, enabling his son’s affair & once again saving him from the consequences of his poor choices. My husband continued to deny his relationship with her, until our daughter started talking & started telling me that the OW & her son were spending the night at Daddy’s house. He is now openly dating the OW. After 19 years of being together, we are now divorced. He acts proud of what he has done to his family & is now allowing the OW to share 1st expriences (like going to the beach on vacation, to the circus, etc.) with my daughter, in place of me.

    • Doug September 4, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

      Left Behind, Thanks for sharing and I’m truly sorry for what you have experienced. It must be heartbreaking to witness his acting “proud” and bringing the OW around your daughter. I’m not sure that there is anything that you can do about that whole situation (legally or otherwise) but it appears that it’s something you’re going to have to learn to live with for the foreseeable future – as painful as that might be. If you haven’t already, you might want to find support through therapy, clergy or friends that can help you to better deal with the emotions and such. Also, I think it’s important that you find ways to be good to yourself – exercise, meditation, hang out with friends, etc.

    • Strengthrequired September 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

      Left behind, I too am so very sorry, the pain your in would be heart wrenching knowing your baby is with this disgusting home wrecking ow. My hear aches for you. My youngest had just had her 1st birthday when my h ea came out. She is now 2 1/2, I wanted my children to have nothing to do with her. It was hard enough knowing my h was running around with her, but any of my children spending time with her was unbearable to think about.
      Thankfully my h and I are still together, but it haunts me just thinking about knowing my h ow tried many times to talk my h into leaving me, that I was a terrible mother and if I didn’t want my kids she would help raise them.
      She was relentless in her quest at taking my family and claiming it as hers, to the extent to this day she uses our surname as hers on FB, who knows where else.
      So again I’m so sorry that you are living with this ow in your life, who has broken your family and dreams.

  46. Gizfield September 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

    Left Behind, your story is just heartbreaking. My daughter was five when my husband committed his infidelity and I think the thought of someone nasty enough to date a Married Father being around my child was worse to me than the thought of her being around him. Luckily, that never happened. I know it’s hurtful, just try to make the time with your child as special as possible for you both.

  47. Gizfield September 4, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    Thanks, Teresa. Truthfully, I know what I did was wrong, and never try to defend it, so really theres not much to say that would upset me, cause I’ve already thought/said it myself. And yes, we need more male perspective!

  48. Left behind September 5, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

    Thanks to all who have commented. I am admittedly jealous of those of you who have the option to choose whether or not you want to stay with your spouse, that you are valued enough to be given that choice. I wanted more than anything to keep my family whole, but my husband was un-wavering in his quest to end our marriage so he could be with the OW. He honestly believes there is nothing wrong with what he is doing and has shown no remorse. He has stated that it is ok to do things for his own happiness, and that he just needed a change. The crazy thing is that he is the one who wanted to have a child for several years, but I had been reluctant to; because I believed his over involvement in things outside the home would essentially make me a single Mom. He had promised he would cut back on things if we were to have a child, so I finally agreed. So I guess that is one of the reasons it hurts so much that he is now doing family oriented things with the OW. All I had ever wanted from him was to be part of his agenda, to be a real family. We had even won a vacation from a radio station that we did not take, because he would not take time off work to do so.

    I’ll never understand why he would throw away his family, friends, & reputation for the OW.

    • Disappointed September 6, 2013 at 12:07 am #

      This is where I get stuck too. How did I become nothing and the OW everything? Our life nothing and 5 minutes with her precious? I wanted children, he did not. She is divorcing and has two children. So it makes me feel that he thinks she is worth it and I am not. In a cruel twist of fate during this time I had to have a procedure that makes it impossible for me to have children. I can’t imagine having to share my child. I am so sorry. I am afraid we will never get answers. and even if we did, would any answer really cover it? Our h’s chose to invest in someone else, so we never had a chance. I still struggle to accept it and it is keeping me from doing the right thing for me. If I Ever figure it out I will share my epiphany.So much pain… wouldn’t wish it on anyone but the OW;)

  49. Rachel September 5, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

    Left behind,
    It sounds like you were married to my soon to be ex husband.
    I ask myself every day, why would he throw all of us and this away?
    We need to move forward as difficult as it all is.
    There is someone better out there for us . We deserve it!

  50. Sadsomuch September 5, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    I have never posted on anything before but wanted to say to all of you “Thanks”. This has been the most difficult thing I have ever experienced and I wouldn’t wish this hell on anyone. I don’t know what the future holds for me and my family, but I know that what ever it is we will survive.

  51. Tryinghard September 5, 2013 at 7:23 pm #


    Yes it is awful. One of the most awful experiences short of death. I am so sorry you are going through it. Hang tough, stay calm, listen, don’t take any crap, get out of the house, cry when you feel like it but do not blame yourself. Stay here with us. We’ve all been where you are. Ask away and comment away. Cyber hugs sister

  52. Strengthrequired September 15, 2013 at 11:02 pm #

    Well cousin it the ow, sent my h a couple of photos of herself in tight clothing looking all skinny, having a pose of sorts showing off her figure, back in may, I only just found the pics on his phone yesterday. It was like a brick wall had collapsed on top of me, seeing these pictures of her, there was no messages, no response from him either just these two pics.
    My h was sleeping on the lounge at the time, as I walked into see him, not impressed that these pics were there, and that he hadn’t mentioned to me she had contacted him since her last encounter with him in February, the day he told her that he didn’t want her, he wanted his wife and children.
    I threw the phone at him, told him I couldn’t do this anymore, I didn’t want to be with a man that couldn’t choose between his wife and the ow, that we should separate.
    Poor thing just got hit with a phone in his sleep, stood up dazed, wondering what was happening. He told me he has had nothing to do with her, he isn’t interested, he doesn’t know why she sent the pics, and admitted he should have deleted them when he received them, but he was so busy he had forgotten. I believe him because I know how busy he is with work.
    Stupid as it may seem, I believe him that he hasn’t seen her or messaged her, and tha it is over.
    She hasn’t sent photos of herself before, so I believe it was her way of showing him, look what you are missing out on. She is that shallow that she thinks my h really cares if she lost some weight, that it will make him want her.
    I just wonder when will this ow understand that he doesn’t want her, that he wants his family, his wife,.
    Anyhow, now I have a new image of her in my head, and now I just can’t shake it. I’m so tired of her, I want her to be a distant memory, not one that keeps popping up.
    I have asked my h to tell her again, if she sends another message or tries to see him or call him, that he does not love her, she needs to move on and if she doesn’t understand the next time he will press charges of harassment.
    He agreed to, but we will see.
    Sorry just needed to let some steam off. Feeling very unattractive and undeserving of my h right now.

  53. Gizfield September 15, 2013 at 11:47 pm #

    Strength, like you, I just have to wonder WHYYYYYY these scum buckets are so hard to get rid of. Maybe he is telling the truth cause it would be really stupid to leave those photos on his phone. I mean, he could have forwarded them to his work email or something and he would never have gotten caught. I’ve heard nothing of my husband’s slut in about 15 months but of course that doesn’t mean shes not skulking around somewhere. I doubt he would volunteer the information if he did.

    • Strengthrequired September 16, 2013 at 12:26 am #

      Thank you giz, it amazes me how these ow think they are so wonderful that of course the cs wants them, of course ithe cs couldn’t possibly want the wife and family over her.
      Why this ow thinks I am so pathetic that my h couldn’t possibly want me is mind boggling considering we have built a life and family with each other for the past two decades. Just because she is available now that my h wants to run right into her arms now and forget he has a family already. She must hold very high tickets on herself, yet at the same time degrades herself with her own self worth by thinking if she just showed off her body more my h will come running.
      It’s crazy to think that’s how low and shallow she thinks my h really is, if she thinks that is what he wants in his woman.
      Maybe I should feel quite flattered that she has to feel she has to compete with me when I’m not on the skinny side, and my h still wants me.
      Now if only I can get these images of her out of my head.

  54. Broken2 September 16, 2013 at 10:27 am #

    Strength…… thing you said is completely wrong …it is your husband that is undeserving of you girl…NOT the other way around…don’t forget that!
    I know EXACTLY how you feel because the OW contacted my husband and he never told me. I don’t think I would have ever found out unless she tried again and I was sitting right beside him when her voice came over the speaker in the car. Puke. It is like opening a sore that starts to bleed again. It hurts and it sets you back to a place you never wanted to go again. It set me back a few months because I felt like if you are hiding this what else are you hiding? Hang in there….this too will pass.

    • Strengthrequired September 16, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

      I know it will pass, I see my h so much stronger since she isn’t around in his ear.
      My h has no interest in this ow, the fad has faded away in his mind, she is no longer a toy he wishes to play with.
      I think this ow, until she is happy with someone else, she will keep trying. I believe she will still contact him some way whether it be 6 mths, a year, or even two years from now, and probably even further down the track, she will still make some sort of contact, her reason would be because he is her cousin she wants to see how he is, maybe even if she does find somebody else, she will probably make sure he knows to see if he gets jealous or something.
      This is just how this woman works.

  55. tryinghard September 16, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    I am so sorry this has happened. You are a better woman than I because he would have had to have the phone surgically removed from his ass had I found the pictures!!! Sorry I don’t feel sorry for “the poor guy” being awakened by the phone being thrown at him. He was dishonest AGAIN by not telling you. That would be a deal breaker right there for me. Also why didn’t he delete them? Maybe he wanted you to see them? She is a nervy bitch for doing that this far out. She must have a very high opinion of herself. It’s too bad your H can’t figure out that he needs to tell you when these things happen. He would NOT get a pass from me with the excuse “he forgot” Again I call BULLSHIT!!! Hugs to you Strength

    • Strengthrequired September 16, 2013 at 8:47 pm #

      You know what I have been thinking, when I saw the pics, I should have saved them on his screen saver or on his wallpaper, then waited until he look at his phone. If only I could have thought of it at the time. Wonder what his face would have looked like. Of course I would have been next to him, just to see his face. Ohhh well, hopefully no next time,mother wise that may be what I will do.

  56. Gizfield September 16, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    Strength, just because a nasty skunk loses weight, or is skinny, does not change the fact that it is STILL a nasty skunk. Please do not be jealous of this pathetic creature. In your place, I would consider exposing her nasty ass. I bet my husband wouldn’t tell me if his skunk contacted him. It’s just too much of a boost for their sad little egos, unfortunately.

  57. Strengthrequired September 16, 2013 at 5:48 pm #

    Thank you everyone, I do honestly feel my h isn’t in contact with her, he has changed so much since the days she was around. I think it was her last ditch effort to get him back before she moved from the place he rented for her.
    I think taunting him with her presence. Showing him I’m still here.
    I think she is just one of those crazy ass psychotic women that just don’t take no for an answer. I know she doesn’t believe he could possibly love that chubby wife, even though he has been married to this chubby wife for 22yrs and have 6 children together. Noooo of course he is only with the chubby wife because of the children. She thinks she is so beautiful, yet she couldn’t even get him to seal the deal with her no matter how many times she tried. Honestly I hope god forgives me saying this but I hate this woman so much. I can’t ever seeing me being able to forgive her after the terrible things she has done to my family.
    Yet I wish her well, and wish her far far away from my family.

  58. cbj545 October 2, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    Hi..I am new to this. D-Day + 10. My wife has been in a EA for as near as I can tell 5 months. I didn’t discover it. I was actually visiting friends out of state and texted her what we were doing. She nomally doesn’t drink but she replied she was on her 5 beer and miserable. Then she texted she met somebody but walked away. Please can any of the woman explain why she would tell me if it was over. ( i do now they texted for another week but has stopped the past 4 days. Although now she knows that I looked at the new phone bill a last Sunday. She says nothing happened but checking records I know they have sent Saturadys together.

    Now she claims it was nothing and that she just needs to work on herself so she has nothing to say about us or what happened. Financially she is more than capable of moving out and if she was so miserable before why did she stay. Between the pain and trying to work through this I dont know who to talk to. No family in the area and because I am not sure exactly what is going on don’t want to smear dirt. There are about 3-4000 texts in 4 months put some phone calls. She went to visit her family overseas for 6 weeks and the first thing she did on returning was text him before I picked her up. The next morning she said she was going to visit friends but only had contact with him and spent the day with him. Just looking for some perspective from a womans point of view.

    • Trying Hard October 2, 2013 at 7:12 pm #

      First I want to say how sorry I am that you are going thru this. The questions you are asking are the same all of us have asked a million times. Why is she doing it? Simple answer because she wants to AND 1st thing to know is not to blame yourself. You did nothing to make her cheat. Also don’t believe anything she says right now. She will say lots of things mostly lies and hurtful things toward you. Don’t listen. You need to get the truth right now and she isn’t going to cooperate. Trust me on this. Doug and Linda have an added site here that will really help you. It’s the members site. It’s in two parts. One just starting out with discovery and one for those of us further on. I suggest you join. I wish I had known about it in the beginning I would have done things a lot differently.

  59. cbj545 October 2, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

    Thanks for the support. I am still baffled why she told me? Then turns around and says it was nothing. She could have just not said anything.
    7 years ago she had a friend that she did things with and didn’t tell me. It went on for 3 weeks. Again just friends. I had a job transfer and were moving so she let me discover it the day before we left. It was nothing like this. minimal texting and not alot of calls but lying where she was going and where.

    • Strengthrequired October 2, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

      I second TH, don’t let her blame you, this was her doing, she is an adult so should be able to take responsibility for her own actions. They all like to pass the blame onto us for their wrong doings. Especially at the start. The lies can go on for a while, I think the lying is what destroys your trust in a person more than the betrayal itself, at times. Especially when you are trying to believe what you are getting told, then things start not adding up, then the lie is found out. When it happens over and over again, the bit of trust you had is lost, then it is the task of waiting for them to earn your trust back.
      It can take a while.
      Your wife probably thought she was being kind by telling you about her ea, yet I think it had more to do with the guilt overrunning her conscience. I am glad she told you though because you have the opportunity to protect yourself. Better tha being an unknowingly unwilling participant in her ea. Now you know you get to choose on how to handle the situation, but read what you can first on here, learn, knowledge is a powerful resource to have on your side, as TH mentioned I too wish I had found this site at the beginning, it may have saved alot of distress, I was going through this alone for a long time, then I found people like me going through the same as me, all speaking the same, most experiences the same, all cs behaviours and the other persons behaviors,it’s scary how remarkably similar they are.
      I no longer feel as though I am alone, I found people that understand and listen and offer advice.
      All I will say is be strong, I hope all works out for you.

    • Trying Hard October 2, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

      I can’t say for sure but maybe she thought you caught her. I’ve read three on liars, not to mention my own up close and personal experience, and liars will tell you the truth in an exaggerated way. Tell you something in a manner that you won’t believe it. Maybe she thought if she admitted it and followed up with “it was nothing” you wouldn’t asker any questions or start tracking her. Almost like calling your bluff in reverse.
      Two and a half years prior to DDay we were cleaning his car an I found an earring. I questioned him and questioned him and he lied so well I believed him. I took a picture of that earring, don’t ask why I something told me to do it, and when DDay came I looked that picture up and found the date I found it. That gave me a hint how long the affair had AT least been going on. I found out later the affair had been going on a year prior to that date. If she is living about where she is it is NOT nothing. She is going to lie her brains out and make like its nothing to cover it up and send you in another direction. You have your work cut out for you my friend.

    • chiffchaff October 3, 2013 at 6:29 am #

      Hi, from what you wrote it sounds like she was feeling really low when she told you. If she was on her 5th beer and admitting to being miserable then it looks like she ‘needed’ to tell you. My H mentioned a few times that he had got close to telling me about his affair when it was becoming too much for him to handle. I think that the guilt occasionally overwhelms them and allows their true, more moral, selves to appear for a brief time. It’s possible that she’s frightened of the repercussions of her rare honesty about what’s potentially going on and so it;s no surprise she wants to downplay it now. But it’s essential for you and your health that you don’t let her downplay it. Something is very wrong with what she’s been doing and may still be doing and you both need to work out what it is. You need to be allowed into the detail in order to exercise your right to choose whether or not you will put up with what she’s doing. By lying and keeping secrets she’s stopping you from having any choice in things. That has to change.

  60. Trying Hard October 2, 2013 at 10:13 pm #

    Ok so that was 3 books on lying. Also if she is lying about where she is going and with whom it is not nothing. Do not believe anything she tells you right now. She is not in her right mind. Get stealthy. Look on line for resources to download her texts phone calls key loggers whatever helps you get your answers. GPS devices worked great for me. You can’t afford to be stupid or trusting.

  61. cbj545 October 3, 2013 at 10:15 am #

    Thanks for the comments and support. I am American born and my wife is not. We both speak Russian and she is active in the Russian community. Last night I received a call from a friend who had been at an event with my wife last Friday. She said the rumor in the community was that starting a few months ago my wife was talking about her unhappiness ad seperation and divorce. There was speculation about the EA or something. I approached my wife with this and told her her secret was not so secret and that the community was gossiping about it. She exploded. Said she hated me, wanted to move out, well just ugly. Through the whole thing I told her I still loved her but if she would not face what she is doing I was OK with her going. I just told her that at this point I just need to take care of myself.
    After this hour long mess she took a shower and then came back and said I was losing her friendship and thinking about working but now she just wants to be alone. Then she sat and cried foe another 45 minutes while I explained that I still care and love her but can’t do anything about her feeling. I need to help myself. Maybe I am exhausted after a few weeks of little food and sleep. We have another house out of state and I plan to go there tomorrow for a week. I need to recharge. She needs to face the reality of what she is doing. i still need to support the family and my head is so foggy that I am not performing at work. If I am not careful this thing could destroy my job also and then the mess just gets bigger.

    • Trying Hard October 3, 2013 at 10:26 am #

      Excellent! You reacted perfectly. Good for you for getting away for a while. I did the same and it was the best thing I did for myself. She needs a cold shock of reality to see what life will really be like with out you and if she wants that or not. She may want that so prepare yourself for that possibility. Right now she is in her “fog” and you are not in a fog but shock! You sound like you are thinking very clearly and communicating to her what you will accept and what you will not accept. Good Going and I hope your time away does you good.

  62. Gizfield October 3, 2013 at 10:30 am #

    cbj545, I agree with trying hard. Your reaction is the best I’ve heard. Do you think the gossip helped you be prepared for this? Cause most if us were totally blindsided.

  63. cbj545 October 3, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    I only heard about the gossip last night. I have reached out for 2 weeks just to get spit on. I wont take that. I understand she is in terrible pain but she is responsibile. I am not a kid and went through a divorce 18 years ago. I waited years before I got involved again. It takes a lot of time. I survived that and I will survive this but I dont want to just survive. I want peace and love. She has never really been on her own and I think this for sure scares her. I just can’t fall into the hole with her. As everybody has said. I need to take carry of myself. In the end one of us will need strength if she decides she wants to work on the marriage. I still have lots of questions because she wont be completely honest. I haven’t given up but until she accepts reality not a lot I can do for a while.

  64. cbj545 October 7, 2013 at 12:00 pm #

    I have been reading on denial. The thing that I need to accept is that she may never take responsibility. I have gone to our other house, giving space. Also really trying to take care of my own sanity. I was feeling a bit better but it is scary what can trigger this emotion. I was at the grocery store and it hit like a ton on bricks. I could breath, thought I would survive getting out of the store. The rest of the day very depressed. This morning I feel better but man ……..

    I dont know what to think about where she is at. She seems to be completely withdrawing. Very deep depressing, crying a lot, not talking to anybody. She told me she cant see anybody right now and needs to work on this by herself. Although we are only D-day +16 I need to be patient. Does anybody have the CS that completely withdraws and remains in denial. Or are they actually not internally in denial and eating away at themselves just hoping it will all disappear.

    • Trying Hard October 7, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

      Oh yeah, I did the whole grocery store freak out thing too. As I was buying 2 oranges for myself it hit me! “Wow TH, WTF happened. You are all alone in this world buying enough food just for you…FOR THE WEEK…two lousy oranges. It was awful. I didn’t think I would make it out of the store either. Thank God I wasn’t eating during that time so I didn’t have to go to the store very often. I believe it’s good giving her some space and you especially. Yes she needs to process what she is doing. It’s been all fun and exciting for her up until now. She has to face the dishonesty and trust me denial is a much more pleasant space than facing your own terrible flaws. AGAIN, focus on you and your needs. It’s hard and vague I know but put her feet to the proverbial fire and TELL her exactly what you need. Also tell her EXACTLY what you will NOT put up with. Do not soft soap you boundaries, BIG MISTAKE. Do not offer up ANY type of forgiveness at this point. She has to understand what she and she alone is doing to you and your marriage. She needs to be shaken out of the “fog” and seeing that she will lose EVERYTHING is a good place to start. She probably is confused, but she did that to herself with her choices to lie and cheat. She’s probably also trying to figure a way out of this without hurting herself first and you second. They are always going to protect themselves first so unfortunately the lying continues for a while. She’s in lala land. Feeling euphoric over the attention she’s gotten from whoever and her guilt and shame (hopefully).
      I hope that helps. It’s just my opinion and experience that I speak from so if I’m off, I’m sorry. I’m sure there will be others on this site that will have great info for you. We’ve all been where you are in some form or another. The good thing is we are all here for you to help offer our insight and support. Remember to BREATHE 🙂

  65. cbj545 October 10, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    Well, I have been away from her at the other house. I am not sure if I made a mistake but as I reflect on our relationship she had told me there was a specific event that took place that I hurt her very deeply. The event actually took place about the time she started the EA and it seemed to be the trigger that accerlerated her EA. This is not to say we didn’t have lots og problems before and the EA would have grown regardless of the mistake I made.

    Part of this process is self healing and being responsible for your own actions. When I thought about what I did I realized I had been wrong and selfish also. So before I left I wrote a letter of aplology and sent it to her. It made me feel better. I’ve just decided I need to take responsibilty for me. I am not letting her off the hook at all but need to work on my stuff.

    The reaction I got from her was a surprise. She said receiving the letter was a life changing event, I was the first time in her life somebody was actually sorry for hurting her.

    It totally changed the conversation tone. In fact yesterday we probably had the most intimate conversation in years. Expressing our feelings about some of the events over the past few years that got us to this point.

    We talked about the affair in a calm manner. Not much detail. We talked about how we need to move forward although we are still not at that point. I told her that the only way to work on the marriage was to cut it off 100% and she would still need to answer my questions. I gave her the puzzle example. She said she didn’t think she could do that. I told her she didn’t need to do it now but it would be necessary for both of us to heal.

    I told her I wasn’t sure the relationship could survive but the only way it could is that it needs to be just us. If it just us and we try and it doesn’t work then our ability to move forward alone will better.

    It was really the first good honest conversation we have had since this started. She was reseptive to lisening to my feeling without being defensive.

  66. cbj545 October 10, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    I think at the end of this we need to take responsibility for our own role in what happened. She felt negected and I have to understand what I did. If I dont I will repeat again in this relationship or a future relationship. I am not making excuses for the cheaters. Some cheaters are just cheaters. Selfish and self centered.

    But in my case I need to listen to what she is saying. Work on my self. I have aboslutely no control on what she does or what she feels. On another blog I read what Bob said. There are very few men on these sites. We don’t communicate our feeling very well and we get stuck. I promised myself that I will express them regardless of how she talks them.

    • tryinghard October 10, 2013 at 11:44 am #

      Hey good for you CBJ. Sounds like you are making some progress. Yes it will take time to get the story from her. It’s called trickle truth here and that’s why so many of us have more than one DDay. Be patient and of course listen. We all have to admit we have done things that contribute to the break down of communication in the marriage HOWEVER, that does NOT condone or give an excuse to having an affair. Two different problems. Sounds like you are doing all the right things for yourself and your marriage. Good to hear from you.

  67. cbj545 October 13, 2013 at 10:07 am #

    Well, D-Day 22. I feel so good that I found this site. Reading dr. Huizenga Marrige Crisis material I went to his site and bought some of his books. Read everything the past few days. In Break Free for the Affair I was able to identify which type of affair I am dealing with. One stood out with a mixture from one other. As I read I realized mistakes I had been making the past weeks.I am incorporating stratigies that he showed and dont feel helpless. Working and focusing on me now. I feel much better. Breaking everything down I realize there are 3 things going on here. Working to save the marriage ( which need to be delayed) unitl I can confront the affair and understand if I should go forward. Working on myself. Nothing I can do about her. She needs to make her own decision.
    Now I have a new delimma. My wife has been going to the doctor starting a few days after D-Day. They discoveried abnormal cells and told her she had pre cancer development. She has been told that they will do a LEEP procedure. She is very scared. On Tuesday night we talked for about an hour then on Wednesday evening we talked and had the most intimate converstation in years. She said that I am the only one that she can really talk to about what she is feeling and how afraid she is. The next day I received an email telling me she appriecated the support and had felt close again but that we have a pattern of saying sorry but not fixing anything. Since then we have been silent. Just a few text. I realize I need to just back off based on the type of affair. The delimma is how can I be supportive for the new medical issue while dealing with the other affair and marriage issues. I need to show compasion for her as a person very freignten but not lose track what we both really need to do to move the marriage forward.
    After one and a half days of complete silence she sent me a text with pictures of my dog dressed up with my step daughter. I answered very cute and then total silence again. I am wondering why she would send the pictures.

    Last night I hit a big trigger. All day feeling better. Walking a lot, reading working on my stuff. i went to an Octoberfest party with about 100 people. Had a few beers then found my self feeling few lonely and sinking fast. I stopped drinking immediately. Came home and wrote in my journal.
    But now I am struggling with how to support during the medical stuff. I want to.

  68. Gizfield October 13, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    Cbj545, I can appreciate your dilemma in that you want to support her on the medical crisis. This may sound harsh, but this may be a really good opportunity to let her reflect on her own choices and the repercussions they have. Like not having unconditional support when she needs it. shes not telling her affair partner it’s cause she thinks he’d dump her. Which he probably would…

  69. cbj545 October 13, 2013 at 10:42 am #

    Well, I agree. I have had to fight the urge to comtact her since our conversation Wednesday. I to let her have time to reflect and I has allowed me to concentrate on myself. In fact the affair type strategy Dr. Huizenga suggest is to bacl off. So just following the stategy will give her time to reflect.
    But it is hard but need to stay the course.

  70. Gizfield October 13, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    We know it’s difficult. Wishing you the best !

  71. cbj545 October 14, 2013 at 7:21 pm #

    Just returned from the 10 days. Huge help. Got out and did things and didn’t spend 24/7 thinking about all this. Read a lot of Dr. Huizenga’s material. Really is helping get things in perspective. Been able to concentrate better the past few days. Based on my affairs type I just need to back off right now. Easy over the weekend but tonight we will be in the same house. I certainly feel stronger to face this evening.

  72. Strengthrequired October 14, 2013 at 7:48 pm #

    Good on you for taking care of yourself. It is the best thing for you right now is look after yourself. Wishing you all the best tonight, imdo hope things work out for you.

  73. cbj545 October 15, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    Last night a new reality hit me. like a ton of bricks were lifted. Before I returned home I sent my wife a letter. Setting some boundries if she wanted to move forward. I also told her to do what she wanted regarding the relationship. I was no longer going to make myself crazy. I told her I will get through this either way. I want us to be together but I have no control over her choices. I told her that to work it has to be zero contact with the third party and that at some point need to fill in the puzzle for me.

    When I got home I doid not talk about the relationship but the conversation go into her fear with the medical issues and her inter demons. I told her that unless she addresses those things from her pass there is no healing. I told her that she has a choice. She is in pain now so now is the time. It my extent the pain a while but it is better than covering and having it pop up in the future and repeat the cycle.
    She really is the one fighting the demons. I am hurt from the betrayal and I have thing to work on but in general feel good about myself. I am following Dr. Huizenga’s advise. Backing off and taking care of myself. In fact I want to move forward. I feel 100% better today. I am not going to lose anymore sleep because I realized I have no control over what she is doing or what she is feeling. I let it go. I hope that she will get to a point of wanting to work but I have to be true to myself. I wont wait forever. I know I need to wait at least 2-3 months before making any decisions so I am just getting on with my life and looking out for myself.

  74. cbj545 October 17, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    Well D-Day plus 23. Last night was interesting. We had about a 90 minute conversation. She was upset that I told my son about the medical issue and that it was personal and not their busiess. She said that I say I am sorry but then go and do stuff like that. But the converstation developed into more. I talked about what she had been doing the past two years and that she had checked out of the marriage a long time ago. We then talked about the affair and I told her what I felt after learning of it. That the pain was almost the same as losing a child and that I am sure I said and did things the past two weeks that were without much thought. Conversation was calm. She said she was glad I was hurt and didn’t regret anything. I told her she was looking for that adolecent love, tingly feeling and was walking right by a much deeper love. Somebody that had stood by her through years of her dealing with her internal pain and past hurts.Then she mentioned that they were very similar. I told her she was living a fantasy. That the relationship was built on lies, decit and betrayal and that his only responsibility in the relationship was to validate her. I asked her for 1 example of how they were similar. She paused for about 30 seconds and stared off then responded I am not going to tell you because its not your business.

    We continued to talk about forgiviness and her inability to forgive. I told her I know of two big mistakes I made in 12 years and one was recently after she had long left the married. I said that actually it was not a bad track record. Both dealt with money.

    Finally I told her I would not go back to how it was. I could not live with somebody that would not take responsibility for there actions or have the ability to find forgiviness.
    For the first time I told her I was not sure I wanted to stay in the marriage and need time to just work on my self.

    Pushing hard to move forward.

    • tryinghard October 17, 2013 at 11:31 am #

      cbj, It sounds like you are doing all the right things. This is the hardest phase of working through infidelities. Getting the spouse to wake up and see what they are doing. It’s also the most important phase where you put your foot down and state unequivocally what you will and will not put up with. It’s also important for them to see you are ready to move on if they don’t get that. You almost have to turn you back but you also have to let them know you are willing to listen at a later date about the problems in the marriage when and only when they are not seeing or having ANY contact with the other person. PERIOD. Yes she is going to have to tell you everything. It will NOT work any other way. That is non negotiable in my opinion.

      My heart goes out to you and so does my support and understanding of this horrible place you are in. I will say it does not last forever, one way or another :/

  75. cbj545 October 18, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Thanks tryinghard. This morning I had a new revolation after a short conversation with my wife last night. With all the reading and studying I have done I am finding a new focus on taking care of my self. What I want, boundaries etc. I have been keeping very busy and I feel much better and the knot in my stomach is srinking. She has noticed the change and actually said to me she wish I would have done this 4 years ago. In 2008, I was an executive with a majot firm. When the crisis hit I lost about 70% of my wealth and in March lost my job. I had huge financial responsibilities and started sinking fast. I started a consulting company and did well for about 18 months but things started to dry up and the financial sink whole got bigger. By 2011 I was deeply depressed, lost my desire for almost everything but was able to keep everything afloat. By may 2013 I was able to sell off the large house find a new job and in my opinion it was the first time the day to day pressure had been lifted. By then she had already mentally left the farm.

    Crisis management and adapting to change is a skill I have learned for business and personal experience. I understand the process I need to go through. Believe me know the process doesn’t make it any easier to go through but it does help in getting up faster and moving even though the pain, confusion and anger is still there.

    My need concern is as she see this transformation I believe in her mind that the affair caused it and that the end justifies the mean. She still hasn’t awknowledged any wrong doing or shown any signs of being sorry. I know she is struggling with she own internal battle and confusion but my moving forward I think will block her from realizing what she did and take responsibility.
    I can’t really worry to much about it. I told her my boundaries. But it has created a new fear that her not accepting her role will be the end of the marriage.

    • tryinghard October 18, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

      There’s a really good book I’m reading right now about detaching from a man going through a mid life crisis and really saving yourself. It does not address saving your marriage although if that is what you want she wishes you well. It deals with saving yourself because as we all know, we go through many kinds of hell on many different levels. I wish I would have had more knowledge and support in the early days of DDay to know about taking care of yourself. I would get all these patronizing comments, “we love you. Take care of yourself”. I was like OK but WTF does that mean. Now I know and it means almost turning your back on them, putting your foot down IMMEDIATELY and giving them the boundaries necessary to even start the convo. It’s not about yelling or fighting accusing or the rest. I didn’t know that because, well gee whiz I didn’t get the manual on how to handle things when your dumb ass husband decides to have an affair. Who does, right?

      The one thing I would like to caution you on if you want any chance to save your relationship is to keep reinforcing how much you love her and how you would like to work on your relationship and possibly save your marriage. She needs to wake up.

      I feel your pain. They pick the best times to have affairs, right? My H decided it was a good idea to have an affair when 1. My soon to be ex DIL started having an affair, devastating his son’s life 2. I lost my business and personal investment and 3. Skin cancer surgery. Nice, right that they are so uncaring in our time of need. I can only imagine what a mess he would be if he lost his business!!! The last thing I would do is act selfishly and have an affair. How he looked himself in the mirror knowing the pain and anguish I was going through losing my business is unthinkable to me. It’s really a tough decision to learn how to forgive someone who acted so horribly during your time of need. Makes me wonder if I ever had a health issue if he would do the same??? Your fears are valid.

  76. cbj545 October 18, 2013 at 1:28 pm #

    I feel your pain tryinghard. I feel really lucky in finding this website, the blog and other sources. I really like the material from Dr. Huizenga. After reading I completely stopped saying I love you to her. It has been over a week since I said it. I told her I will make it with or without, I hoped it was with but I accept that may not be possible. I have taked about working on the marriage but not about counseling. I am reading and learning and creating my own path. I told her she need to learn to take responsibility for her own actions and I was tired of hearing everything was my fault. Learn how to “charge nuetral” really helped. I can express what I want and let her blow up but I am not getting into it.

    You case sounds terrible and finding a way to take care of yourself is difficult when you just want to sit and cry. But by focusing on me and as much as possible not dwell on her it helps. I still check the text and phone record on line 3 time a day but the pain associated with it is decreasing. Her activity is really down. I cant check her email which I am sure they are using but what the F.

    • tryinghard October 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

      Well Congrats then. You are doing all the right things. Thoughts on checking the texts and emails. Really it doesn’t make any difference what’s being said and if you think that is how they are communicating then it is. Listen to your gut.

      Thanks for the kind words of understanding. I’ve cried my eyes out enough. No more tears here. I’m seeing a therapist and yesterday I signed up for Pilates. I will get rid of this stress before it kills me. I didn’t ask for it nor do I deserve it. I’m taking care of ME now that I know how to. As far as divorce it will always be on the table I think so I don’t threaten it or worry about it. I know if I do ever decide that I don’t want to be in this marriage he will NEVER see it coming! How’s that for neutral 🙂

  77. cbj545 October 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

    Tryinghard I went back and read some of the earlier blogs. You seems to have a good perspective. No sure how far you are since D-Day. I liked what you wrote to eyes.

    In my first marriage she had 2 affairs. One after 2 years and one after 14 years. When we divorced I did not get involved for years. Focueed on being a single dad of 3. When I did date I only did when the kids were with there mother. I did not want to bring another person into their lives unless I was serious. My ex wife didn’t hold this value.

    This time its an EA. I agree that the spouse (wife) leaves the marriage before she has the affair. In fact that is certainly true. About 18 months or more. I think that is what creates the most pain. To feel that they completely dumped you in the trash and there was absolutely no consideration for you feelings. Althrough it I supported her as best I could.

    Even today I don’t have a clue where she is at. I did tell her that as long as I am still at our home I am hopeful. But if I decide I am don’t I will tell her at once and be gone. At this point I certainly have no expectation they would give us fair warning and they have lost the right to get one.

  78. Strengthrequired October 18, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

    TH and cbj, they do like to choose good times to have an affair. When had my youngest the anatheasist (sp) punctured my spine, I went through depression too. For a year I was suffering with the after affects of the spinal puncture, as well as fighting this depression. I went to the dr’s and specialist, had scans etc. I used to ask my h to spend more time with us, he just kept on working. I needed his support, I needed him. I was going through god only knows what, but I needed him.
    Then my h went overseas, i had already planned how I was going to work on myself because I just couldn’t stay like that. So I started, my little girl had just turned one, the day after he left for his holiday. Two weeks later my h, no longer said I love you, no longer said I miss you, would start being unloving and uncaring. Wouldn’t even answer my calls or txts.
    I had no idea, that 10 days into his trip his ow arrived and started her attack.
    Until he arrived home, did I see what was happening. I saw this depressed man, I saw him attaching himself to someone else. It didn’t matter what I did or didn’t do, it still wasn’t good enough. He would tell me I didn’t get help for what was wrong with me, he knows I tried. Was I supposed to get help like he got his help, in the arms of another man ( for me his of course ow). He turned his back on me when I needed him.
    Maybe I have shown him now, how not to turn your back on someone in need, ohh hang on the ow was in need. He already knew how to be there, he just misguided it.
    Yet I saw how he was in his one depressed state, unlike him I didn’t turn my back and focus on someone else, I stood by him.
    Here I was fighting one type of depression and replacing it with another. Great for the good old self esteem. Yet I too won’t let this shit beat me. Lol

  79. cbj545 October 18, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    Since there seems to be few men here I have a question for the women. Like I said my wife detached about 2 years ago but we still had an OK relationship. About a year ago it seemed to get farther apart and she seemed angry a lot.
    My questions without knowing all our details (nothing really bad except seem to be going in opposite directions) How detached did she need to be and anm I just wishful thinking that this can be saved? We were really close friends and even in the 2 years I provided her a lot of support but I know I was talking to a didn’t person.

    Also, I mentioned before that she stopped wearing her ring over a year ago claiming it didn’t fit when she lost weight. Maybe I am reading to much into it but about 3 days ago she started wear a diamond tennis braclet I gave her 4 years ago. She nomally doesn’t wear it because its expensive and she worries about losing it.

    • tryinghard October 18, 2013 at 6:24 pm #

      Oh gosh, I hate to say this but you asked my opinion. Others here may have a different perspective or disagree, and they will have very valid points, so I am only giving you my take on what I have read on your posts. I also am not a professional by any means but I’ve read a lot like most people here.

      I believe it’s worse when the woman goes outside the marriage. There I said it! I truly believe that any woman with any kind of integrity, sense, morals, and good self esteem will put up with a lot to keep her family together. A woman has too much to risk going outside the marriage. Finances, the children, the marital home, the risk of her husband becoming physically violent etc. Also women don’t take sex quite as lightly as men do. If it’s an EA, which it HAS to be for her to take it to a PA, she’s deep into fantasy land. Women LOVEEEEE that crap. They get totally into all the stuff the guy is saying,( and trust me he is saying the right stuff to her or she is parsing his words so she believes what he’s saying). She is reading EVERY romantic word, look, action to suit her fantasy of what she means to him. Either way it’s not about the sex for her, it’s the emotional involvement and that is a hard dragon to slay. In order for you to have ANY hope of reconcillation she has to understand she is going to lose EVERYTHING before she wakes up and sees it’s a fantasy. Sad to say, sometimes she is willing to lose everything for that fantasy. Way more addictive for women.

      Your wife probably did leave the marriage emotionally as soon as it started. Yes she was mad because you are blocking her from being with Prince Charming (in her mind). She stayed for the children, the money, her lifestyle, whatever. When it comes down to it she wanted her cake and eat it too, really just like cheating men do. My H did EVERYTHING to hide his affair from me. He never wanted me to find out because he was scared to death I would leave him or worse. For him the emotional part was easy to drop/forget about for lots of different reasons that I won’t bore you with. Yep, she took the ring off symbolically because she couldn’t/wouldn’t in real life. She’s playing games. She’s wearing the tennis bracelet to send out the signal that she is high class and likes nice things. She may be willing to give you up but NOT the money!! She sounds like a spoiled brat!!!
      Yikes–two wives who cheated on you!! That’s pretty awful. Some of us are just bad choosers right :)?

      I may be all wet and I’ve already said it’s only my opinion BUT I will tell you I KNOW WOMEN!

      • Strengthrequired October 19, 2013 at 3:54 am #

        Your right TH, women do love that crap, we hope to marry our prince charming, lol after years of hoping our prince charming will emerge within our husbands, we learn to accept that our husbands may not be prince charming but are still pretty good, we learn to accept what we have within our husbands. Then they decide to have an ea, start showing this ow a new side to them, one that all of a sudden they start calling constantly, talking forever on the Boone with, have to see this ow otherwise it’s like their world will fall apart if they don’t, they start paying so much attention to this ow, and they walk all over their wives just to do it.
        Then we the wives look at all the effort they have put into this affair, and look at all the effort we tried to get out husbands just to come home and spend time with us instead of working all the time, and this ow was able to have him all giddy. She was able to have him concentrate more on her than what we have in ages, yet we just accepted long ago that it won’t change. She was able to get him to do all these things have wanted and couldn’t yet we were the ones that had their children. Go figure…..
        I for one now know that my h is capable of doing all the things I have asked of him since before his ea, so now he has opened up a can of worms that unless he can be more involved in our family, then he knows I will question, why he could do the things he did for her, and still can’t do it for me.

  80. cbj545 October 18, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    I appreciate you comments. Spoiled yes. Maybe too much history. We meet in 1998 and has and dated for a while. We went our seperate ways. She married an acholic, wife beater and left when she got pregnant to save the baby. She left everything. She was living in a country where woman have little freedom. We had talked on the phone before she left him and I think knowing I was still there gave her the strength to go. I supported her for about a year without expecting to see her again. She final called and asked to meet. We were at that point just friends. It took months before it moved to romance.

    I was a Sr. Exec with a major firm in Internatinal sales, we lived in London, her daughter went to private schools we traveled the world. When I lost the job after the crash and most of the money. I was crushed. Had to try and redifine myself. By 2011 keep sinking. This is about the time when she told me to get professional help because I was depressed. The funny thing is it really wasn’t depression it was just high stress levels. Trying to support a kid in college, huge mortage etc. I made it. Nobody really had to change their life style.

    In the end I changed mine and in mid 2012 telling everybody I was cutting way back and not going to kill myself for the almighty dollar. It had never made me happy. I am not materialistic. I am actually a country boy at heart.

    I admit I neglected the relationship but when she left the bedroom I was to tired to fight. We talked about it but by then I knew she had left. What she would say up until 4 months ago is ” I love you but a bit different” She wanted that tingly feeling of romance. Even through it all we remained fairly close and when she had her recent medical issues we talked and she told me I was the old person she could actually talk about real personal stuff, not even to her girl friends.
    I do believe that it has been too easy for her. I am not a controller and support what she is doing on the personal growth. Your right she is looking for a fantasy Prince Charming.
    I dont think she is wearing the braclet in public. She has gone out very little this week because she has been ill but you could be right also. Its why I asked. My first wife……My best man cried at the wedding knowing what a mistake. too young.

  81. cbj545 October 21, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    Tryinghard. In your comment you mention PA. What is that?

    This weekend we spend quit a bit of time talking. I got a few more dribbles able the relationship but still not a lot. At least I know there is still some communication. She said she walked away but I asked if he was still chasing. She said “yes” but not much.

    She has mention to me a few times a book called ” The 5 Love Languages” I decided to read it this weekend. I picked mind out right away and I already knew hers. But what was interesting is it ask you to rate the 5 as important to you and then rate your spouse. Have your spouse do the same. She agreed.

    I had her 1 and 2 but missed the third. But how she rated me was kind of funny. She had read the book 2 years ago and then again about a year ago. What she said was my love language was actually my number 5 or least. My number 1 was last on her list of importance which means it is extremely difficult for her to deliver her love in a way that is important to me.

    Its a quick read but I think a very good one.

    • tryinghard October 21, 2013 at 10:45 am #

      PA=Physical Affair. EA=Emotional Affair which sometimes happens with a Physical Affair (ie, not a one night stand).
      I read the book very early in recovery. It’s a good book and I agree everyone has different languages that conveys and receives love. I think on the continuum all humans see those 5 “languages” as being relevant to any kind of communication of love from everybody, not just spouses. Sometimes though the gift language can get out of hand. ie Koby Bryant buying the humongous pink diamond for his wife when he was busted for raping that hotel maid in CO. I’m just saying, sometimes, and especially men, think that if they buy a big enough and good enough gift they are cleansed of their sins by the wife. Now maybe some wives work like that, and I love a great gift just like anyone else, but sometimes it’s pretty obvious. What’s important about the book is it gets you guys talking about your needs, don’t you think? Maybe if you feel she doesn’t know your needs you could encourage her by complimenting her on when she meets them? Viceversa too! Glad to hear you two are talking.

  82. cbj545 October 21, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    Tryinghard I agree with you. Its almost funny because what I need I kept passing to her by communicating the way I wanted her to communicate love back. It was last on her list so I might have just been better talking to the wall.
    It does help. Guys don’t like to talk needs. We assume a role and think that taking care of somebody is what is necessary. In a lot of ways we don’t even have a good feel for what are needs are or when they are not met how we respond to our spouse.

    We take the daisey approach. She loves me she loves me not. Women are just so much more atune to their emotions and certainly register the hurts quicker. I read years ago in long term marriages the wife started to realize the marriga was in trouble or heading for divorce years before the husband. I went back and looked at some of the cards she gave me for B-days and other holidays. Today I realized there was a shift over 2 years ago. The cards were basically the same but what she wrote was a big shift.

    In many way we are clueless to our relationship.

    • tryinghard October 21, 2013 at 12:42 pm #

      So here’s what really makes me crazy. Yes we all assume our roles and over time maybe we get less demonstrative about showing how much we care. Don’t read books about the languages of love, didn’t know about these books and because we didn’t think we NEEDED TO!!! We go along with our busy lives. We are tired, there’s the kids, the dogs, the inlaws, the leaky roof, whatever and things seem ok because well we have settled that this is what are lives are. We just coast along. We look around at other couples and don’t see ourselves as being much different. It’s ok, it’s good, we are whatever our meaning of happy is. Maybe we don’t see our mate as being particularly responsive or even dismissive of our feelings. Yeah ok so we aren’t what we were at the beginning of the relationship but who the hell is??? Now if my H would have said, “You know honey, I need more attention from you. I’m feeling disconnected from you. I hate it when you do X,Y, Z, I would have happily addressed the problem. I would have read the effing books. I would have told him yeah ok I hear you and I would like this x,y,z as well. BUT hellllll no, instead he turns to a complete stranger. What a chicken shit thing to do to have an affair. Hell he could have even said, I want a divorce, which not only did he not do that before he decided it was a really good idea to have an affair, he didn’t even do it during the affair. Now you would think after a year or two of carrying on with someone else you would have a pretty good idea if you wanted to really be with her. I just don’t get the whole affair bit. I think it is and INCREDIBLY disrespectful and immature way to choose to live one’s life! Male or female.
      I hope you are dealing with the affair FIRST because until that is done and over ANY attempt at marriage therapy is a moot point in my opinion. Yeah ok I give her that maybe she wasn’t thrilled with you and Prince Charming is just soooo much better so why not, right??? Right now IT IS the affair that is coming between you and your wife NOT your lack of communication styles. You have to slay one dragon at a time.

  83. Broken2 October 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm #

    cbj545…you are so right in that guys just don’t get (for the most part) the needs of their spouses until a major crisis such as an affair occurs. Sometimes that is what it takes to wake them up. Men aren’t programmed the same as woman it doesn’t come naturally to read a persons face and see and feel emotions and talk about feelings. You can change though….and so can she. You have to really want to change because I think for men it is really hard to be someone they aren’t programmed to be. You make a valid point that you think that taking care of someone is what is required of you and if you are successful at that then you are showing love but it is so much more. I have read a lot on the subject as well and from the men that post on this site….I see a common thread….that woman try to have their needs met for years and years and then they “check” out of the marriage. Usually it is much harder for a marriage to be saved when a woman checks out because she has tried for so long to make it work and her efforts go unnoticed or in all fairness..unrecognized. I think what is most important even though she has hurt you immeasurably is communication. SHe needs to know if she comes back to the marriage that there is real change and therein lies the hard part because she hurt you and your angry as well you should be.

  84. cbj545 October 21, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

    Tryinghard. I couldn’t agree with you more. We go through a process of trying to save the marriage and it doesn’t really matter at this point. I am working on myself and trying to just get a non confrentational dialogue. I have layed down boundaries so doing 99% of the work. Fact is she Fu….ed up. And until she actually realizes it nothing will move forward. Both stuck.
    Your comment is right on the money. There are lots of options other than starting an affair. I was lonely too but never looked at an affair as an escape. Its absolutely the worst place to think you can make decisions about your relationship or future.
    Since the affair is selfish and worse she may never accept responsibility, or feel remorse or work on anything.
    Last friday when we were taking she said she was glad she hurt me because then I would understand her pain. But there is not comparision between the issues. I did a stupid finanacial decision that hurt her because I didn’t include her. Affairs are a factor of 50 worst because it generally continues after finding out and they blame you for what they did.

    When she made the comment I told her she could tell me everything because I didn’t think she could hurt me any deeper. She said, Oh ya I can. So talk about making somebody paranoid.
    What really has been going on. Is this the first or is there a lot more.

    • tryinghard October 21, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

      EGADS!!! I feel for you. I’m sure she has more to say. You need to stop her from assigning blame on you. You don’t need a pissing contest right now who is the most to blame. Nothing accomplished there. I’m glad to hear you are working on yourself and YOUR needs. There is soooo much superfluous conversation mainly because she will want to divert the attention away from her and the affair and onto your flaws that “made her” do it.

      My H actually said during that time, “how do I know you didn’t have an affair”! WTF, I stopped that conversation in its tracks immediately. He would also try to get me to talk about my legal rights and how he would never cheat me out of money.. I told him I didn’t need his advice, I have a GREAT lawyer who is taking care of my best interest. That drove him crazy!! What I’m saying is they are desperate right now. Be very careful how you steer the conversations. The ball is in YOUR court, not hers. Believe her when she says she has a lot more to say that will hurt and it will. GIRD YOUR LOINS!!! She’s not playing you with those words, she wants to tell you. Make it so she can. DO NOT BLOW UP you have plenty of time for that. You need the whole story NOW.

      I’m sure you are doing everything right. I’m just giving you some advice from my own personal experience and the mistakes I made.

      And remember, When Everyone Is After You, Paranoia Is Only Good Thinking!!!!

  85. cbj545 October 21, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    I guess I am still a newbie in all this. Hoping I can fix the machine quickly. As time drags I am sure I will realize the machine is still broken and will take a lot of time to fix.

    I really appreciate the comments. It helps a lot although the message has been one of a truth I probably am trying to avoid.

    The only thing that I am really sure about is taking care of myself. I have learned how to control getting into a pissing contest and my during the converstaions I talk about things very matter of fact. If I feel the emotion starting to escalate I stop the converstation.

    This sh..t is tough. Funny you mentioned you husband accuse you of an affair. She asked me a couple of times if I was seeing anybody. That was before I know about the EA. Passing the guilty and redirecting back at the betrayed spouse seems to be universial from the CS.

    • chiffchaff October 22, 2013 at 7:37 am #

      It’s fairly classic for CSs to pass the buck onto the BS as it means they can continue thinking they were right all along and it means they never have to accept what they’ve done to themselves. It was always someone else’s fault is an easy, lazy way to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions. My H did it for months after DDay and is still prone to turning things around to this day such as small things like ‘I know you don’t like X so I did Y’ – which gets shut down immediately as it’s an assumption that he’s used to do something without asking me. He is at least alot better at understanding why I don’t let even small things like that pass me by anymore.
      Unfortunately until your wife accepts that she did what she did of her own volition and cannot blame that choice on your actions progress will be slow. It’s a long and very hard road. Definitely worth it if it works though.

      • tryinghard October 22, 2013 at 10:05 am #

        That is interesting that you say that. I do the same thing. I used to let that crap go because well I just didn’t want to fight. Now I call him out on it. I don’t get loud I just let him know I won’t stand for it. Some times he will jokingly say “well it’s your fault”. And I will laugh and say oh yeah that was my fault and give him “that look”. He knows but it’s a way of lightening it up and him acknowledging his responsibilities without making it some big deal. I’ve been going back to a therapist and she has encouraged me even more not to hold things in. I’ve been really keeping a lot to myself and not asking any more questions. My therapist said the reason I have so many questions is HE brought her so deeply into our lives so of course I still have questions and probably will for a long time. She’s encouraged me not to stifle those questions but go ahead and ask and DONT wait for the perfect time either. So far it’s been working for me. She also encouraged me to speak up when I disagree with him or when he is treating me as a doormat. As I’ve said before I will not live with someone who disrespects me anymore AND he wouldn’t even have to have another affair to do that. Yep we all change and maybe that’s a good thing.

  86. Gizfield October 22, 2013 at 9:56 am #

    I I agree, chiffchaff. They wil l do anything to get the attention off of what they DID. They have no problem with being the center of attention otherwise, so it can be confusing sometimes.

  87. Broken2 October 22, 2013 at 10:44 am #

    Trying…how long has it been for you again???

    • tryinghard October 22, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

      Two years. The affair was a PA/EA. Therapist says it takes a lot longer to recover since he brought her so deep into our lives by bringing her into the business etc.

  88. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 11:24 am #

    Thanks for the comments. It seems everybody here is at different stages. For me I am just in week 5 since D-Day.
    I am still stuck in the detail of what happened trying to fill in the blanks.
    I considered last night a small break through. We started talking about something she wants to do and it is something that I have supported her on for years. Its a career change but she has been to scared to try. She mentioned that he didn’t think it would work and should focus on a more traditional career with a steady paycheck. He just didn’t get what she really wanted and apparently it started an arguement. This guy is a software developer so I asked what he did in his spare time. She said lots of things so I asked for an example. She struggled answering the said he collects things. I asked what. And she said “guns”. No comment from me was necessary.

    Next we were talking about different issues and I told her that we both understood that the marriage was falling apart and we really didn’t work on it for different reasons. Then I told her that there were alternative choices she had to address the marriage other than having an EA. Foe the first time she agreed.

    What makes this so hard is accepting that it is going to be a slow painful process and I question myself if I can or really want to do it. Is there an upside to sticking in there.
    But when I dig deep she was my best friend for 12 years and that fell apart as we divided but its is also a rare thing in marriage.

    I really appreciate what you are telling me and it helps me so much her it from a woman’s point of view. One thing she told me was she thought I was an emotional wreck because I could never express my feelings or needs.

    Something I am working on and so far I have found she is more receptive in listening. Although I also understand its easier than addressing her own issues and mistakes.

    • chiffchaff October 22, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

      the time involved really is hard to accept at the early stages. I can empathise with that. I just didn’t want to believe the articles I read. I found it helpful to just decide not to make any big decisions for a year and that included leaving, unless it as so blatant that my H wasn’t prepared to a) give the OW up and b) be honest with me and c) stop lying to everyone including the OW and himself.
      Do you see even tiny snippets of the wife you want her to be/used to be in good times? that’s pretty essential at this stage.

  89. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 12:23 pm #

    Interesting point. The answer is “yes”. I know we are both struggling and there seems to be a new sensitivity toward each other. Before we talked for hours. For the first time 2 years we have started doing that again. The converstations are light but when we hit a sensitive subject we seem to be able to discuss without a blow up. She recognizes that she is struggling with self esteem issues and basically has said that she needs to work on herself. She doesn’t want to feel dependant on me. I agree, love is a choice and I told her that it is the only way it can work in the future. If we choose to stay in the marrige. I truely understand what issues she is working through and for her it will not be an easy task. That is why I am working on myself.

    There is still a lot of affection there but the love has been seriously damaged in both of us. We are both growing and in many ways I like some of what the changes are. Because of the self esteem issues I think I believed in her more than she did. What I felt was support she took as forcing because she was afraid to move forward. Now she seems ready to move forward and it actually give me some joy. But it is still a very long road.

    We also talked about triggers to our pain and the impact it had on the relationship. I think a small attempt to better understand our deeper pains, not just the EA.

  90. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    Man, there is a lot of strength you woman are showing. To hang in there and work through this. Right now I feel very lonely and wonder if I have the strength to hang in.

    You girls are fantastic. to give the support that you have torward the CS. Do they ever realize the insanity and the risk they took. I keep thinking about how she actually was really ready to throw her life away over a feel good high. Did it ever occur to her what she was risking. Not about me but to her daughter. Her daughters life would have been turned upside down had I reacted differently and just kicked her out.

    • tryinghard October 22, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

      Hell no CBJ, it’s like being addicted to cocaine. Literally. No they aren’t thinking how it’s going to ruin their lives. They feel so good BUT it’s false high just like drugs. Lives are definitely ruined by infidelities NOT just spouses. Hell we had people quit their jobs over my H infidelity. Our friends lost all respect for him and us as a couple and probably me too. They are in one mode only, ME mode. They are totally delusional. Again I’m not saying all marriages are good until an affair happens or that people shouldn’t divorce. On the contrary. As a sub-note to the commandment that says THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTARY, there should be something that says, AND IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY IN YOUR MARRIAGE ASSHOLE, GET A DIVORCE AND THEN GO FIND SOMEONE ELSE!!! Again affairs are a chicken shit way of handling you problems. Glad to help and guess what you help us too. That’s what this blog is all about so just blow away at us. We care and we KNOW exactly what you are going through. Those folks who have never been through this have no idea what you are going through so don’t waste your breath. Put on a smile and tell them everything’s fine!

      • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

        Don’t we wish we knew that at the beginning of the ea roller coaster. “just tell everyone your fine, because unless they have been through it the don’t know”.
        This s my outlet, right here.
        TH, when you go through something like this and people start turning their backs on you, it definately shows you who are your real friends.
        We had employees leave us too, as well as loss of friendships due to this. You’re not alone.

        • tryinghard October 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

          And you know what SR, I don’t miss one of those phony bastards!!!

          • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

            I don’t either TH, my h has noticed now his eyes are opened that he has less tolerance of others now, he sees now that they are only in it for themselves, where before e thought they were friends, he would bend over backwards, not anymore. So many turned their back on him when he was in need of a true friend.

  91. Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

    Ohhh guess what everyone, I passed my first assessment. Lol
    I was struggling concentrating on it at first, nothing wanted to sink in, and I don’t think it has still. Seeing all the study I need to do started having me question whether or not I could actually do it,in fear of all my once used brain cells that were normally functioning are still in recovery mode. I honestly didn’t think I would finish the first assessment.
    Felt good to pass, shows me I can do it, even when I think I can’t.

  92. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 4:27 pm #

    Thanks SR and TH.
    One of the things I did was very early decided to contain who I told. I told my best friend. Actually he was sitting with me when I got the text. The only other was the friend who told me about the rumors in the community group.

    It wasn’t out of embarrassment or worried about protection her but I knew inside that over the first week or so I was in shock and scambling. Running to others wouldn’t do any good because I actually didn’t know anything other than she had an EA. I didn’t even understand what an EA was.

    After reading a lot and getting some perspective from this website I realized I was in deeper shit than a one night stand. I had lost all her emotional being. That just scared the hell out of me. I understand it didn’t happen overnight.
    At first the seperation seemed like a rough spot and what she tells me is that she tried for a year to get me to listen. How she did it was totally wrong based on where I was emotionally and (completely missed my love language. Because she was working of what she thought it was and it was actually was my least important.

    I actually understand hers and can reflect honestly with myself on how I shut her down also. Most people are good people and think they are trying but as you drift apart you begin to accept it. But the marriage with all its flaws has boundaries. EA and PA are about as far crossing the boundaries as you can get. Its not sticking a toe in the water to test the temperature. Its totally F. U. everything. No returning back. Have have to begin all over regardless if you stay or leave the marriage, Its the nuclear bomb response to ( I’m not happy )

    • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 4:38 pm #

      Cbj, it is so Fu, that it’s ridiculous. My h though started his ea while he was out of the country, I had no clue, until he returned. In just a few short weeks he now thought h was ” in love” with the person he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. That was until I screwed it up for him. He just became confused, then started to think he was in love with two people. Until he realized that he was just feeling sorry for this ow. He did tell me right at the beginning, he did not want a divorce, funny that, considering he found his true love and all, and I was the one that damaged him, and how he didn’t want to live another year need alone ten more years of his life with a wife that damaged him. He thought the ow saved him. What a joke, what ever made him feel good about hurting his family, just pass the buck onto someone else.

  93. Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    Ohh and my h didn’t realise at the time all the baggage he would have had to take on iif he stayed with her, the crazy h whom she was separated with, the family etc. He only wanted her and nothing else that came along with her. He was enjoying all the time alone they had together, because he would take her out and didn’t need to worry about his family, her family, business, finances or anything, it was just about the two of them. When reality strikes he realized it’s not just her, he has to take on all of her problems, all of her family as well.
    Ohh and it also showed him how often he had arguments with her, how looney tunes she would go if she didn’t get her way. If only I was a fly on the wall on those days, so I could sit back and have a laugh at his so called love and him fighting.
    One thing he said to me was, he had never argued with me the way he did with her. He was the first to admit, he couldnt live like that.
    It’s all about fantasy at the beginning and hanging out for the big doomsday finale, which is bound to happen when reality hits.

  94. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    SR and TH
    It appears that you 2 have had a long journey and that it still has some distance togo. Do you ever regret trying to keep it together or do you feel that in the end it will be worthwhile.

  95. Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    Cbj, my h and the ow separated ways back in feb. He told her he wasn’t leaving his family for her because she told him she wanted him to choose her over me and his children and leave us to be with her. she told him though that she would “always love him” .
    I lived with the torment of her being in our lives for over a year trying to break my family apart, but I kept the fight up to keep my family together, to protect my children from the likes of the ow. I won’t regret it at all. I love my h, I needed to help him get back to himself, so he can then be the man that I married, the man that protected his family at all costs.
    He was in a depression, midlife crisis, questioning his worth, the ow just played on that.
    I know I would have regretted turning my back on him when he needed me to stand up for our family and for him.
    No regrets, was not about to hand over my life, my husband, my family to this ow. No way. My baby was just a year old when she tried to break my family, what type of woman does that. Definately not a role model I wanted my children to around.
    You know cbj, it’s the recovery from all the hurt, that is what takes more time to get over, the triggers, because it is those days that make you second guess your choices, those days that make you wonder was it all worth it. These are the days that you have to remind yourself of all the progress made, all the hard work your spouse has done to keep the family together and be apart of the marriage as a couple, you have to remind yourself, that seeing your children happy that the family is together because you didn’t give up, that they aren’t having this ow apart of their lives, that makes it all worth while.
    My h knows what he has with me, if he didn’t he would have left us at the very beginning and would not have looked back. Yet here he is holding onto his family, working hard to keep our family together, and repairing the damage caused from the fallout.
    If you asked me at the beginning if it would have taken this long and if I would have stuck around, I probably would have answered no.

    • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

      Yet it almost didn’t, I almost left several times. I was ready to leave, and it was then the last time I had told my h I was done, that it finally hit him, he had to not give in to her, he had to let her go, no more looking at her feelings, he had to protect his family.
      That was around the same time I found this site, and all these wonderful people going through what you are right now. I wasn’t alone and I had a place to vent, and finally see what his ea was, and how very similar our stories are. This site helped me to keep going in many ways too.
      So I agree very much with not making a huge decision in your life in the first year, unless really necessary, because you run on a high for so long, your emotions are all over the place, and half the time you don’t know which way is up or down.
      It doesn’t matter that we want it to end quickly, but it does take time, and each day can get better than the last if the positive changes are being made and you get to see them. Just like you have recently.
      Hang in there.

  96. tryinghard October 22, 2013 at 5:29 pm #

    Two long effing years!!! Heck yes I have regrets, but I also have a lot of gratitude. Have I thought the whole time, “Oh yeah TH you’re doing the right thing”. Hell no. I have no clue what I’m doing. I take it day by day. Only in the last few months have I allowed myself to plan further than a few days out. We planned a trip to Europe last fall and I made sure everything was refundable. Do I think I should have kicked him to the curb, EVERY FREAKING DAY! BUT I have also seen lots of positive changes and we are together working to build a much better marriage. Am I still pissed about his actions, absolutely because he did so much and for so long. Yes he dropped a nuclear bomb on our life and just like Japan I am rebuilding my foundations. I’m still working through it. Like all the books say, this is not a process for the weak of heart and I am a fighter. I have worked hard to rebuild a new relationship and it has been at the expense of my health, sanity, and self esteem. But I have grown so much and learned so much about myself and this phenomenon called infidelity. Through this process of working through this very negative experience in my life that if I do decide to “kick him to the curb” I KNOW I will be ok. So CBJ whether you decide to stay and try to make a new relationship with your wife or move on and divorce her, you still have to work through all the shit. So who knows if it’s truly worthwhile or not. Those folks who are many years out say “Yes” so maybe I won’t know for a while yet. You know I think once all of us are on our deathbeds we can say, Yeah I did the right thing…. One of the mysteries of life, right???

  97. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 5:31 pm #

    Actually when I think about it. They have hurt themselves maybe even more than us in someways. Both they lost control of reality but when they wake up the room maybe empty.
    For us the pain runs right through the heart and well I am not telling you anything new. But we stay because we choose to which means we accept the shit that we will suffer. If we go the reality of losing everything for them will need to be faced and will suffer many years as few will seek help.

    I think most affairs are not intended to end marriages. they lose perspective and begin a narcissistic fantasy. Went reality reappears they are lost and very defensive and again try yo not face reality. We are that contant reminder of reality and they don’t like it.

    • chiffchaff October 23, 2013 at 7:23 am #

      the watnign to hold on to the fantasy once reality hits is pretty much another way of looking at the ‘fog’ concept. reality arrives all at once and their continued denials and shifting responsibility is just a vain attempt to slow the real world down until they can cope with what they’ve done.
      or not as the case maybe.
      I think this is why BSs have to be firm and honest with them, to stop them delaying the arrival of reality because the sonner they accept it the sooner things start to get better, but they don’t want to know because it involves bloody hard work and looking at their own failings.

  98. Paula October 22, 2013 at 5:58 pm #

    CBJ, I am four years and five months out, we were in great recovery for about two and a half years, it was awful, agonising, but we were mostly making good progress, then I hit a wall. We have separated four times now, first two were brief, a few weeks and a couple of months, the third, at the two year mark, I kicked him out again, for around four months. I thought we were done. He has done all the “right” things, other than for the first two years, he tried to “control” the situation – with a bunny boiler – there is no control – just suffocation, starve them of oxygen, I tried to make him see this, but it took two years before he got the point, and now can’t see why he couldn’t see that – I know he was trying to protect me and our kids from her insanity, but it was the wrong thing to do. We have had thousands of dollars worth of counselling, and we didn’t make it. That said, we have been separated now for around five months, and he is still my very best friend in the world, and I like him a whole lot – I still love him dearly, and desperately, I wish I didn’t quite often, lol, the love has been dented and damaged pretty damn badly, it was once such a pure, truly wonderful thing. You are right about affairs and the intent to end marriages, most are just selfish self soothing about a problem, or myriad of problems that the cheater has, and lacks the correct communication skills to share with his or her partner. Some are exit affairs, but in my experience, those ones end the marriage quickly, they make the decision early on, and jump, not lingering in the doorway. My friend and ex-partner has hurt himself pretty damn badly. I wish I could find a way to be with him without the mind movies and imagery, but that is my nightly ordeal, dealing with the graphic pictures, and my daily occupation, keeping busy enough to try to drown them out somewhat.

    SR – AWESOME you , well done on your grade! I have just the one exam left this semester, in a paper I am going into the exam in on an A+ average of 88.6% Wow, what happened to the universe, lol. The other paper I struggled with a bit more (I actually hated it, and should have changed it at the beginning of the semester) I should end up with about a B average, hopefully. Just one 25% assignment mark to come in. Work is getting frantic, so I am keeping busy, but I still struggle on a minute by minute basis with my heartbreak.

    • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

      Paula, yoir doing a great job with those marks. Awesome you too. Tbh with you, I hated the subject I was doing, but it’s a part of the course. I just couldn’t concentrate on it for the life of me lol. Yet I ploughed through it. Funny thing, was going to check what I needed to submit before I prssed submit, but my new laptop did I for me. The stupid thing submitted it. Lol. Good thing I passed.
      I admire you alot Paula, after all you have been through your stronger than you may ever realise.
      I have always told my h, it would kill me if we ever separated and were unable to remain friends. I would always want his friendship, and not just for the sake of our children but because he has always been a huge part of my life.
      Can I ask you something? If in a few years down the track, and you were able to work through all the bad stuff that’s happened, to a point where it didn’t affect you in such a way, and you and your ex still had that wonderful connection, do you think you could one day get back together with him?
      I just wonder because your such a beautiful person, and someone who has had a lot of hurt thrown at her, that it just seems natural you need time to yourself and to truly heal before being able to recommit to a person that means so much to you.
      I truly wish you all the happiness in the world. For some reason after what you have mentioned about your ex, is he will move mountains to make things right, no matter how long it takes.

      • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

        What I meant to say was, for some reason I feel as though he will move mountains to make things right for you. That’s love what you have for this man, and I know he has it for you too.
        Thats why I wonder….. Not sure if it is completely over just yet for you two. I think it may just need more time. I may be wrong but i hope not. Hugs

        • Paula October 23, 2013 at 12:29 am #

          SR, thank you. We know we love each other, we were the “IT” couple amongst our friends, 25 years ago in December, the longest lasting of any of our contemporaries – many are on second and even third time around. But, sadly, we weren’t able to make it work – the damage seems too much for me to inflict my broken self on another. I choose to continue to work on myself alone at the moment. The pain for me is still as agonising as it was the night she texted me – more, I think, I was probably in shock for a little while – I just remember being determined to get to the bottom of what we had to do to heal us, I knew I still wanted to be with him, and that surprised the heck out of me – I always thought a long term sexual affair, without protection was a deal breaker (ultimately, it was, I guess.) One thing I have had rammed home is that no one knows a thing about what the future holds, you can plan, you can have goals, but in the end, what will be will be, and you’d better be able to adapt 🙂

          Back to the study – just found out I got an A- on the crappy ethics paper test I just sat, – worth 25% of final grade! OMG. I am very pleasantly surprised, this has definitely been a B paper, so anything starting with A is awesome, lol. I understand about your wariness about starting your Bachelor’s degree after dealing with this – I have been distracted and easily stressed during this. Luckily with cross credits from previous uni study, I have now completed my first year. I only did this semester part time – just two papers instead of a normal four – I still work three days per week, and I have to travel over an hour to the campus. I wanted to see how I would go before seeing what I can do off-campus, via net papers, if any are applicable to my interests/major/s. It has been satisfying to find out I can still cope, adapt and learn within a structured program.

          • Rachel October 23, 2013 at 3:45 am #

            When you mentioned the pain still agonizing, well that actually made me feel normal. I’ve been feeling that pain for the past week and I still can’t believe that this is my life. I’m numb.
            I had to stop seeing my therapist because she doesn’t accept my new insurance. It was a crutch for me.
            The constant thought of ” how could he do this” pounds in my head daily.
            Good for you for an A- on your paper!!!! You should be very proud. And working besides. For me distraction from the past two years is key.
            You hit the nail on the head, no one knows the future. So true.

          • Strengthrequired October 23, 2013 at 4:50 am #

            Paula, the future is definately an uncertain thing, that’s why i would like to think that all this pain you are feeling will become a distant memory, that you will be happy again, and able to let yourself love again. I do hope it is with the man you already love deeply and bes friends with. I just hope that your love for each other makes it’s way back to the both of you completely.
            I hate that we are all here due to hurt from or most dearest to our lives, and I hate to think that we now need ti learn to love again without fear of being hurt. Yet that is really what we need ti do. It’s sad, sk very sad that such a wonderful love was ruined because of a senseless act, but it is what it is.
            I actually worry because how you explained how you felt at the beginning then comes a couple of years down the track, that it was then that it hit you more deeper. I worry about that, because I felt the same towards my husband as you did yours at the very beginning. Like you, I live my husband so very much, he is my besnt friend, I worry that one day it will hit me like it did you and I just won’t be able to bring myself to stay with him.
            I do hope it doesn’t come to that though, but the future is very uncertain. If you has asked me before the ea what I thought the future held for me, I would have been certain that I was going to grow old with my h, now holding onto that certainty doesn’t happen, it’s a day by day thing, for now…..
            Woohoo, for the A congratulations. Well deserved. I say.

  99. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

    Paula thanks for sharing. You stuck on my biggest fear. It is actually something we talked about many times before the EA. The fear of losing the friendship. Its a good foundation but not the stuff that forms the house.

    She hadn’t told me she loved me for a long time. But on D-Day when she told me about the OM she was drunk. (she’s not a big drinker) What is weird that in one text that day she said, “I love you and have always loved you but a bit different”. In my mind what that ment is she lost her attraction to me. I am sure the physical left with the emotional seperation. Can women get it back?

    Sorry, I write a lot. Its the main thing I do when working on emotional issues. But I find that since I have not spread the news this is really my only safe place to go.

    I almost lost my job during the first 2 1/2 weeks. Dysfunctional and angery with no ability to work. I am better and have talked to my boss and during the last 10 days have been able to concentrate better.

    I think that once I accepted that I set the boundaries I had zero control over her actions and for 2 weeks have really focused on myself as much as possible.
    What is everybody studying. It seems 2 of you have gone back to school?

    • Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

      I decided to get my diploma in accounting, to better understand and to become more confident in dong the bookkeeping for my our business. It isn’t what I really want to do, but once I have finished I will do the bachelor degree I really want to do.
      In a way I’m glad I didn’t diveminto the bachelor degree first, I think I would have drowned, especially the place where my head isn’t focussing the way I would have liked. So a good starting point to get myself back again I think.

  100. cbj545 October 22, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

    I think that’s great.
    Has anybody read “How to Survivean Affair ” by Dr. Gunzburg?

    Funny I kind or onder why I am the only guy here. I feel like I am the only guy that’s wife cheated.

    • Doug October 23, 2013 at 6:43 am #

      CBJ, I’ve noticed that there are a lot of men who are becoming members lately. It seems they just aren’t posting comments yet. Trust me though, they are here. We have Gunzburg’s program, so let me know if you have any questions about it.

  101. Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 7:54 pm #

    No cbj, your not the only guy, there have been a few on here lately. I can’t remember which thread it was now, but there is a couple more new men posters here. If I remember which oe I will tell you. I think it would be good for you men to see you aren’t the only ones.
    Unfortunately affairs aren’t just one sided, it isn’t just men or women it’s both.

  102. Strengthrequired October 22, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    Here cbj, you will find a few men posting here.

  103. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 10:36 am #

    Thanks SR
    I think that men struggle with affairs at a different level. First, our society to some extent accepts men are dogs. So when a man goes over the fence he’s an ass, bastard etc. But longer term no big stigma. I don’t change the hurt for the BS. Their live is turned upside down but also I think in some ways society expects woman to be more forgiving. It doesn’t help the BS because they have been crushed.

    When a woman has an affair people are much more in shock and yet 40% of woman have one. For men it becomes an ego busting trama. Thats why men don’t post or talk. Their self esteem is so far in the toilet that that can’t face it.
    I feel really fortunate that I have found this blog and the different sites with information. The “charge netural” technic from Dr. Huizenga has really changed the communication between my wife and I. The difference in just 2 weeks is surprising. But it takes so much out of me because being calm on the outside and contolling the tone of things takes so much effort.
    We both understand the old marriage is dead and gone. We may not be able to get through this but at least we are not ripping each other apart.

    Kudo’s for you that have returned to school and moving forward. Life is uncertain and you can only live one day at a time.

    • Xterra October 23, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

      Hi CBJ,

      Believe me, there are a few men who post on this site. I’ve posted earlier in the year, and check back occasionally just to see what the topics are.
      My wife had an EA with her first love for a period of about 5 months. I was totally shocked, dumb-founded, amazed, hurt, angry and a lot of uglier emotions when I discovered the affair. My D-Day is January 24 of this year, so it hasn’t been that long. My first though was to kick her out, but after thinking about it for a couple of days, realized that I didn’t want to lose her and we both decided that we wanted to make our marriage work. But the one thing I made sure of was that she was totally committed to working on us.
      I am truly grateful that she snapped out of the fog almost as soon as I discovered it. She has truly shown remorse and has admitted it was the stupidest thing she’s ever done! As everyone here says that the road to recovery is a roller-coaster ride … that is definitely the case! We’ve had our good and bad days/weeks, but the bad are far and few between now. These two people are not the same as when we married, but we accept that and move on together.
      I’ve admitted my mistakes of not paying enough attention to her needs and try to make sure I let her know that she’s constantly on my mind, do my share around the house, compliment her more and let her know how much I appreciate her – things she went looking for to someone else.
      The future looks good for us, but like people say – who knows what the future holds? Take it one day at a time and take care of yourself first. And listen to the wonderful women on this site (and the guys too!), they know their shit!

  104. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    Thanks Xterra
    The woman on the site have been terrific. Give me more insight to what I am dealing with.
    My wife seems to be coming out of the fog and seems to have ended it but not 100% sure. My biggest concern at this point is what you point out. Will she be 100% committed to working on the marriage.
    It has only been 5 weeks since D-day so being patient is the name of the game right now.
    My wife told me about it so I didn’t discover it. She told me she was walking away from it. Its still a bit strange she even told be but now I realize it was getting out of control and she got scared before it actually went to a full PA. My guess is they did all the teenage stuff. And I know they have continued contact this month but very little.

    Like you said take it one day at a time because I missed it for 4 months so who actually knows except her.

    • Xterra October 23, 2013 at 2:04 pm #


      If you both want to work on your marriage, you have to make her aware that her contact with the OM must stop – she has to give you her passwords to emails, texts, FaceBook, etc. That is the one ultimatum you have to give her.
      She has to be aware that what she experienced with the other guy was all fantasy and that you will be there for her and that you want her to be there for you. If she’s still unsure, tell her to pack a bag and leave for a period of time – make her see what she will be losing. This was a major factor for my wife to snap out of her fantasy!
      I think your wife telling you about the affair is a good sign and something you can build on. If she wants to work on your marriage, it’s her that needs to rebuild the trust she has broken, she has to be open and transparent, with no more secrets. But let her know that if she needs to talk about it, you’re willing to listen.
      Hope this helps.

  105. Broken2 October 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    CBJ …It is such a good sign that your wife told you about the affair. Hold onto that. Five weeks is such a short time since dday and you are only at the beginning of your journey. Recovery is a long process but one that can reap tremendous reward for yourself, your spouse and your marriage. I like what you said about controlling your conversations and sometimes that is very hard to and I applaud you for doing so. I remember we put a timeframe on our conversations regarding the affair (10 to 15 minutes) and that seemed to help my husband know there was a beginning and an end. It’s hard to feel empathy for someone who has hurt us so deeply but our spouses or hurting too and feel a tremendous amount of guilt. You have a right to know every detail if that is what you need to heal and I think in the beginning we are so upset that we quite often filter what we hear and so need to ask it many times. It’s like filling in the pieces of a puzzle. Our reality during the time of the affair wasn’t reality because what we thought our spouses were doing …were not what they were doing. I actually filled in a calendar at the time with what was going on in our lives and when he was talking and texting the OW and was amazed at how incredibly clueless I was. Times we were on trips or holidays or even calls at 2am (computers go down at 2am) I never knew. So you need to piece back your life. You need to make it clear NO CONTACT. Transparency in all parts of her life are mandatory and after awhile she might come to view that as an invasion of privacy but she lost the right to privacy when she crossed the line of betrayal. As out of control you may feel right now reality is you hold the cards. One day at a time my friend, one minute at a time if you need it. Your not crazy and many days you will feel like that. You are normal and all that you will go through is normal and in your own time. You can’t hurry recovery (3-5 years is what they say) but it can be a good thing for your marriage. You can’t ever have back the marriage you had before….grieve for it and try and let it go. That’s a hard one for sure. That oneness with someone else has been violated but you can start over. People make mistakes (I never thought I would ever say that at the beginning of recovery) but they do. My husband made a huge mistake, one that he lives with everyday. He didn’t have a PA but an EA with a coworker. He too said it began to feel creepy as she wanted more and the fun and games didn’t feel so fun anymore. I felt like we had the best marriage ever and felt blindsided by the whole thing. It has been 3+ years since dday and he has made tremendous changes in his behavior with the realization that without them I would be gone. Are there still issues today? yes of course but with the help of my friends here and us working together we can overcome. One other suggestion I wanted to make was to try a “date” night where you two can go out and make some new memories with the rule that the affair won’t be discussed during this time. Learn to talk and laugh again together. Anyways good luck.

    Trying….I just wanted to tell you I have been ready your posts for a long time and you are funny and amazing. Giz you too!!!

  106. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 4:00 pm #

    Broken2 Thanks for the post. Yon mention getting email password, text etc. How far away are we. She still views it as a violation of her privacy if I touch her phone. Although she is baiting me a bit leaving laying in the kitchen and going off.
    I am sure at this point things are deleted at once or daily. You can’t be with them 24/7.
    Until she actually tells me she knows she did something wrong….. Funny, even after telling me about him she can’t admit it was an affair. The thing that she talks about is him, not what happened. So I know she is still withdrawing from it. Her response to me seems to improve almost daily but she is still going through withdrawal.

  107. gizfield October 23, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    Is anyone else having problems with their comments showing up in odd places or is it just me, lol? Anyway, the the “you are invading my privacy” is standard issue for cheaters. She will have to do better than that around here. We’ve ALL heard that one. A married person doesn’t need privacy, especially after an in appropriate relationship. She is either sneaking, or leaving the door open to future sneaking.

  108. Broken2 October 23, 2013 at 4:23 pm #

    cbj…if there isn’t any contact then there isn’t anything to hide. My husband gave me his email and linkedin passwords. Not sure who pays the bills in your house but if she has a cell phone you can look at every single text and phone call practically on a minute to minute basis. If you don’t know his phone number you will quickly find it out by the amount of calls and texts. That is actually how I found out about my husbands affair. I never looked at our cell phone bill before the EA…I just paid it but I was looking for a telephone number and found this number that had hundreds of calls and texts associated with it. As I looked backwards I could actually see when it all began. I did a reverse phone lookup online and her name came up. I knew her and I knew she worked with him. Confronted with this info he couldn’t weasel out of it and he actually said he was relieved to stop the lies and the hiding. SO I guess you have to get to the point where you know these passwords and look on your cell phone bill. It is a violation of privacy but absolutely necessary to regain trust.

  109. gizfield October 23, 2013 at 4:35 pm #

    I’ve had friends who have made excuses for their husbands not wearing their wedding bands or having locks on their phones, etc. Without exception, they are all divorced or cheated on with in a few years. If my husband ever does either of these again, he is gone. If any future mate does this, he is gone. I will make sure my daughter knows this, and if her husband does these, I hope hes gone. No good can come of it.

  110. tryinghard October 23, 2013 at 4:43 pm #

    That was the #1 clue before DDay. He kept that phone attached to his side. Even charged the battery on it in his car overnight!! Now he leaves it laying all over. Hardly even knows where it is once he is home. Violation of privacy???? You must be kidding? No such thing. You don’t have anything to hide, you don’t care who looks at your stuff, no violation. Violation privacy, hell I have to remind him to shut the bathroom door when he’s in there !!!! Now that’s a violation of MY privacy 🙂

    • Xterra October 24, 2013 at 9:55 am #

      Hi Trying,

      My wife was the same; always had the phone on her person and turned off the text notices and never left the phone bill around anymore … It was part of her body when she was sneaking around. Now she even leaves the phone at home when she leaves … she’s even considering cancelling her phone package saying that she doesn’t need it anymore!
      I agree that there is no privacy in a marriage anymore if one spouse betrays the other.

  111. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 6:23 pm #

    I have the phone bills and text records. I can see when it took off and actually because they texted constantly I can tell when they actually met. I can actually tell when it started to cool off because the texting was steady but lower volume and no gaps for a meeting. The day she told me the text stopped at 5:0 pm and she told me at 7:30. Zero the next day then about 100 as I think he was scrambling.

  112. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    Other than meeting and probably some emails they had almost zero phone calls. Only time they seemed to talk was in person. Although she visited her family for 6 weeks about a week after it took off so they probably skyped.

    • Trying Hard October 23, 2013 at 7:46 pm #

      Amazing right CBJ? I don’t know if you are interested but there are devices for sale that you can download all those texts. Don’t show your hand because they will just get another phone. Yes experience:)

  113. cbj545 October 23, 2013 at 7:54 pm #

    I looked into it but she upgraded her phone about a week before she told me so it has a new sim card. Everything else would be long gone.
    Depending on email carrier or if the use outlook you can recovery emails even after they emptied the trash.

    • Trying Hard October 23, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

      If she still has the old phone you can get all the info off that SIM card. Again DO NOT SHOW YOUR Hand on this. You will won’t to all in the name of honest discourseBUT there is no honest discourse until it’s a two way street. You need info now

  114. gizfield October 23, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    I agree with Trying Hard, once they know you know about a communication source it’s pretty useless to watch it. Does she have a work phone or email? It’s weird they didn’t “talk”. You can buy a throw away phone real cheap for text and talk, I hsve one I keep in my car for emergencies. You can also text though your email account. Message though facebook, etc, etc. There’s a whole industry devoted to secret communication, and a lot of it is even free, for those on a budget.

  115. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 10:26 am #

    She gave her old phone to our daughter so it has a different sim card now.
    I guess at this point I have been able to map when it started and when they probably met. I assume the text were romantic maybe sexual. She told me about the relationship and at this point hasn’t said sorry or shown any really remorse other than trying to deal with herself. I know she is in a lot of pain.
    She has had a number of trama’s and has the ability to bury and cope instead of facing. If fact it is a big reason this happened as they resurface at times.

    I guess I can keep digging but the reality is without her coming clean I will have a partial puzzle. If she doesn’t then we probably won’t make it anyway. I keep watching with wait is available to me but getting more technolgy isn’t going to solve it.

    Until she comes clean the privacy issue will be a battle. Although she doesn’t seem to be hiding her phone, ipad or email anymore. In fact yesterday she told me her email I never knew about.

    I certainly think it is over or still a little of him chasing but her health issue has changed her and her perspective. It all can to head at once. Sometimes it is not what we do but what the universe does that opens new doors.

    We continue to have really good talks with working in the relationship in small bites.

    • Xterra October 24, 2013 at 10:41 am #


      Sometimes maybe it’s better you don’t find those texts/messages? I found a lot of very sexual and loving messages on her phone and email, and then finding out about the Skype sex … it was very hard to take! What was said in the messages and texts I can come to terms with and forget about them as time goes on … it’s the mental images and the mind-movies that keep playing when I do think about what happened I have the most trouble with. But in time, these too don’t play as often.

  116. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    I handle all the bills so I also knows what she is buying or spending on.

  117. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 10:37 am #

    Xterra, How long after you found out did it take for her to begin to come around. Did she end it a once? How long before she decided to work on the marriage and give up the privacy or was it you telling her to leave?
    How did you find out?

    At this point the calmer I can remain and work it as almost an onlooker information is coming out and her attitiude is much different. Its a slow road but I think the right one at this point. Tough though. I have layed the boundaries now I have to give her a chance to respect them.

    • Xterra October 24, 2013 at 11:04 am #


      Luckily for me, it was right away that she became remorseful and realized what a stupid mistake she had made. The first night I found out about it, I “slept” on the couch – actually, I didn’t sleep because I was so angry. This was the first time in 17 years that we’ve consciously made a decision to sleep apart. The next day, I took off work and spent the day talking/arguing with her about what had happened. When I actually broke down and cried, it finally struck her that she had hurt me immensely – for some crazy reason, she didn’t think this would hurt me as much as it did! After that, she did what ever I asked her to do to try and get me to heal.
      I found out because I asked her who she was texting all the time. I asked her after she turned away from me so that she could send a text message … this was after we had sex! She “had” to say goodnight to him! I was suspicious for a while because, like I said, she had turned off her notices when she received a text, but she became so confident that I wouldn’t find out, she was texting him, when we were together, driving, watching movies, doing family things, etc.
      Oh, there was no calmness when we were discussing the affair! But, I tried to keep calm so the kids wouldn’t hear what was going on. It’s good you have laid the boundaries down, now it is up to her whether she respects and abides by them or not. You are doing the right thing – hang in there.

  118. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 10:55 am #

    Xterra, Believe me that is the worst part turning off the camera. When I asked her if she had been with him she said”Not Really”. What the F does that mean……everthing but intercourse or just kissing. My mind is all over the map.

    • Xterra October 24, 2013 at 11:08 am #

      Yeah, I got a lot of “I don’t know … maybe” answers to my questions. See with guys, it’s either black or white, and we can’t read between the lines like women can. So for those women reading this – YOU have to tell us … you have to make it clear to us what it is you’re looking for. It’s not that we’re dumb, we just need help to think like you women! 😉

  119. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 11:29 am #

    Xterra, I couldn’t agree with you more. When things started to go bad 2 years ago she dropped lots of hints but I took most of them as she was pissed off and didn’t want me.

    During the past 2 weeks we have talked about the marriage and I said neither of us worked on it. She said “oh yes I did, you can’t imagine how hard”. So I asked her to explain.

    She read lots of books on relationships and sometimes talked to me about them like the “5 Love Languages”. She said I should read it. I glaced at it and accepted what she told me was my love language. After I read it I found out it was my least important. She would wear something sexy to bed. Then in frustration she moved to the other bedroom to get my attention. And made the excuse I was snoring. She expected me to come to her I guess. The taking off the ring and saying she lost weight. I brought it up more than a few times that I didn’t like it and I didn’t like her in the other room.

    Lots of other things like I am going hiking do you want to go.

    The problem is she never just said what she wanted. There is the expectation that I will just know. She says” you just dont feel me”.

    Listen girls we have only OJT with relationships and have a vague idea how women actually think and feel. Be direct with what you want. Its f…king refreshing and takes the guess work out. It might surprise you that we start thinking out of the box to surprise you if we are trying to figure out what you are really thinking and feeling.

    In her 1 year of her thinking about thinking about working on the marriage she never came to me and said” I love you and we are having a difficult time. I think we need to work on the marriage”. Or I want to spend the day with you, would you like to go hiking.

    Its not that we want you to make it easy for us but in our world we are direct with other men. So reading between the lines is not one of our better talents.

  120. gizfield October 24, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    Guys, I dont know about other females, but personally I feel this whole “sex differences” thing is way over hyped. It’s a way for people to sell a lot of books and put even more distance between people. All women are not emotional balls of goo like they want you to think. I’m sure as hell not, lol. I read the Five Love Languages book, it was ok, but certainly not anything revolutionary, in my opinion. I think men and women are much more alike than you think.

  121. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

    I don’t think this is about emotional goo. The 5 love languages applies to both sexes so in that since you are correct. But communication styles and problem solving styles are different. There has been enough research and it is unrelated to relationships that it is true. Now not everyone is the same for sure and men and woman certainly have the same intellecual capacity and skills so we are equal. But the wiring is a bit different in terms of which part of the brain becomes most active in certain situations.

    All we are talking about is what is triggered in the mind and how we handle information.

  122. Xterra October 24, 2013 at 12:37 pm #


    I’m not saying anything about the “differences in sexes”, but like CBJ has mentioned above, say for example, if my wife says “I’m going for a walk”, I’ve come to learn that it really means “I’m going for a walk and I would like you and our 2 dogs to join me and dress warm, because it’s chilly outside” – while I say “I’m going for a walk, want to come?” . I jest, but for myself, I’ve become more aware of trying to understand what my wife is saying so that it helps to improve our poor communication.

  123. gizfield October 24, 2013 at 12:39 pm #

    I understand what you are saying, but from what I’ve seen on here, the lines seem to be drawn more by Cheater vs. Non cheater than by sex. Male and female cheaters tend to use the same lines, you didn’t meet my needs, I was lonely, basically “it’s your fault “. Also I’ve notice d most people, of both sexes, have a harder time recovering from this when sex is involved, which goes against the “most men are more hurt by their spouse boinking someone than women. ” I am much more tolerant that my husband texted or talked to someone than him getting in bed with them. It’s all subjective though.

  124. gizfield October 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    Your point is taken, but I don’t understand the “fishing” type communication myself. I would say “I’m going. Want to go?” I know lots of guys who use the indirect method and lots of women who don’t so I still think it’s more individual difference, not across genders. But like I said, my opinion only :~)

    • Strengthrequired October 24, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

      Giz, I’m the same. If I want to go somewhere, I would say do you want to come. I’m not going to expec my h to know what I’m wanting if I don’t tell him. It’s the same with him. I can’t guess what he wants. If he wants to go somewhere and wants me to go he would ask me straight out.

  125. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    gizfield. I think this applies to both men and women but we don’t know how to ask for what we want. In your example why wouldn’t you say ” I am going on a walk and it would be nice if you join ma or I would like you to go.

    When you say “You want to go” leaves what you actually want out of it. It can be taken as indifferent.

    I think most of us struggle with this. When direct with a request and the other person doesn’t respond as we like we take it as rejection and so begins the distancing. Nobody likes rejection so I tend to make open ended wiggle room statements.

    If I think about all the problems I have had with my wife I can really see a pattern of neither of us tells what we really want. I make a statement and she misinterpets or the reverse.

  126. gizfield October 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    No actually I’d probably leave it at “do you want to go?” Lol, thats just me. I dont want him doing something with me cause I want him to. He might be tired, or just not in the mood to walk. It’s a rejection of the ” activity” not me. My first husband was such a possessive, jealous control freak who insisted I do stuff I didn’t want to do that out is a huge turnoff, in myself or others.

  127. gizfield October 24, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    Thanks, Strength. My husband would probably say “sounds fun. Enjoy yourself” or “sounds fun. I think I’ll join you.” Either would be fine. The first husband would have begun an interrogation who will be there, why do you want to do that, where is it, ending in me being a lying slut “walking the streets” and nobody walking, lol.

    • Strengthrequired October 24, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

      Lol, my h, if. Went out on my own would ask the same, if I came home too late he would get the skits if he was at home watching the kids. ” ohhh hang on that’s the old h, before his ea”

  128. tryinghard October 24, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    You bring up a good point and it is something I am terribly guilty of. Yes I want him to read my mind 🙂 /well maybe not so much my mind but my demeanor. I think it’s a fine line between the type of communication that a cheater utilizes to protect themselves and a male/female thing. I’ve had two therapist tell me I need to be more assertive!! Say it once, ask for it once, and don’t back down.
    UGH we had an argument last night. For over 25 years I have made holiday meals. And for 25 years his mother has made it an absolute misery for me. I’ve tried everything to make it work. She is a bonafide narcissist so she ruins every holiday because well she can. DDay year we went to Chicago we stayed in town and as usual it was a misery. This year I decided with my son’s divorce and not knowing if my grandson would even be with us for Thanksgiving I decided to have a Thanksgiving type dinner on Sunday and we could go out of town again for the Thanksgiving weekend. I can’t stand the whole shit show of “Mom can you have Thanksgiving at 11:00 because we have to go to X,Y,Z. No Mom have it at 3 because so and so…”, and well you get the point. So by having a family dinner on Sunday everyone does what they want on Thursday. Didn’t make any difference to me what day it was. Also, and probably most importantly, I wouldn’t have to have my MIL and FIL over for dinner and avoid all her unpleasantness. I can’t even begin to tell you all the holiday horror stories with her. Nor can I begin to tell you of the 35+ years of abuse I’ve endured from this woman! Suffice it to say I’d rather go thru colonoscopy clean out than entertain her in my home!!! So last night my H says, “Well we have to have my mom and dad over for the thanksgiving dinner we are having on Sunday!” My H is very well aware of animosity between us. We’ve had many words although lately I just walk away. I don’t care what she is saying, her voice is like nails on a blackboard to me. Hell he says HE even hates her!!! I thought for sure he would know that one of the main reasons of having the Thanksgiving dinner on Sunday was to avoid his parents. So I guess what you are saying BOYS is I need to say “Look my darling I am cooking Thanksgiving dinner on Sunday and I don’t want your parents anywhere near me and by the way, Christmas will be on January 15 after they have left for Florida”?

  129. Xterra October 24, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

    Sorry you have to put up with “out-laws” like that – I kind of had the same situation in my first marriage! But I really would like to hear you tell your husband that!

    • tryinghard October 24, 2013 at 3:08 pm #

      LOL, Do not encourage me Xterra 🙂

  130. Broken2 October 24, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

    Trying ….I can’t stand my father in law either and it has been 40 years of his verbal abuse. I remember one Christmas I called out to all my guests dinners ready and he yelled back…well I’m not hungry!!! I eventually had to stand up for myself and made my husband make a choice…its him or me because I will never do anything for the man again. So he isn’t allowed in our house anymore and I never answer the phone if he calls. I even wrote him a letter 3 months ago telling him I was completely finished with him. I think the most frustrating thing is like your husband….they just don’t want to or get it that their parents are abusive.

    cbj….I also believe that men and woman absolutely think and speak differently. Men, for the most part (bless your hearts) can handle only one thing at a time and think in a more “how can I fix the situation” and move on. Woman can do many things at one time and think more in terms of feelings. I can pretty much read someones face and know what they are feeling, my husband is clueless. Woman want our spouses to know how we feel just “cuz” they love us but men don’t have that capacity. We also assume a whole lot more in one statement then we actually say and then feel like you don’t really care because you didn’t read between the lines. I think therein lies the reason we have so many communication issues and that learning what our spouses wants and needs and their way of communicating is a step in the right direction towards a healthy marriage.

    I know my own husband is very driven by his work and it takes him a long time to switch from who he is at work to who he is at home. He has worked very hard on that. He also can be very short at work when I call but we both have learned that it’s just work and he will call later a different person. I needed to learn to not feel hurt and he needed to learn to monitor is words and his tone. We can all make little changes that have a great impact on our spouses. Its a learning process.

    One thing that helped me was my husband never stopped what he was doing before just to talk. Now if I ask him to talk he drops everything, stares at me with 100% of his attention and I then know he actually cares what I have to say and is listening.

    Day by day….it will improve.

    • Xterra October 24, 2013 at 3:12 pm #

      I think you’ve summed up what I’ve been trying to say Broken! Thank you!

      I wish there was a “like” button for yours and Trying’s comments!

    • tryinghard October 24, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

      During the affair I made a Thxgiving dinner and there was about 10 of. My in laws went to my SIL down the street from me. We weren’t talking, she was pissed whatever the reason, they didn’t want to come over which was great. As soon as the last spoonful of pumpkin pie was eaten my H decided he wanted to go see Mommy and Daddy and take everyone from y house there too. So off they all went while I stayed back and washed all the f—–g dishes and cleaned the f—–g kitchen!!! Egads I HAVE been a freaking doormat!!! No wonder he thought it was ok to have an affair!!! UGH 🙁

      • forcryin'outloud October 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

        TH – You “ain’t” alone girl. The Thanksgiving before the EA started I cooked the entire meal by myself for us and the in-laws. Not one person offered to help. They did clear off the table but it ended there. Little did I know my MIL and the OW were in contact and she had begun feeding my H info about her (the exHSGF). The year after d-day we went to the in-laws for T-day and I didn’t lift a finger, NOT ONE. And that’s the last time I have seen them. Boo-hoo…NOT so much!

        • Strengthrequired October 26, 2013 at 2:24 am #

          My inlaws would often invite my h over for dinner on his own. I could never invite my sil for example over for dinner without inviting the rest of her family, husband and children. I always found that so very rude, and really annoyed that my h would go without the whole family.

          • Strengthrequired October 26, 2013 at 2:29 am #

            If anyone had a reason to and have an affair it would have been me, yet me and my morals, it would have been against everything I believe in, plus I valued my vows.

  131. Xterra October 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

    I don’t have any problems reading between the lines here! Hope your day gets better Trying!

    • tryinghard October 24, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

      LOL Xterra. What was it that gave it away 🙂 Thanks for the well wishes. It will get better. I just can’t believe how thick he is. I’ve never been a nagger or needy person. I just handled everything so he didn’t have to. ALSO another one of my biggest mistakes, Making things wayyy to easy for him. So I just put on my big girl pants and made sure everything was perfect for the holidays. This year I am sitting on my back end and wait for him to make the first move. At least I have a cooked turkey ordered!! May not be anything else to eat though if he’s in charge 🙂

  132. cbj545 October 24, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

    Man, thinking about the holidays at this point doesn’t seem very fun. Even in good times they can seem like a circus.

    I have to get through another 40 days first.

  133. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 10:36 am #

    Help…I dont know if we are going forward or backward. I guess when we talk about good days and bad or emotional…. Last night when she came home she was very emotional and I think angry. She took it out on me but to the best of my ability I stayed calm and tried to tell her it was OK to be angry. She is really angry about past issues and feeling sorry for herself about how her life go to this point.

    For the first time she awknowleged it was an affair. She has always referred to it as a friendship. She also admitted they was a physical side but no intercourse. The most distrubing thing is she said I stopped thinking about how you feel and I don’t care. I don’t feel bad about it and I am glad you are feeling a bit of my pain.
    She told me she is completely lost and can’t feel anything for anyone right now. She doesn’t know if I will stay or go and can not even picture the future.

    I told her the only way for both of us to heal was she had to face what she had done. If she doesn’t address it will repeat in the future with me or somebody else. She told me it wasn’t my concern. After she vented and went to bed (she sleeping in another room) I came in and told her it was OK to be angry and she needed to. It wasn’t about me. I told her thank you for being honest and telling the truth because it was the only way to move forward.

    I think there was some anger and jealousy last night because she brought up my past relationship. They know each other. She suggested maybe I should go back to her. I told her that it was the last thing I would do. I told her that since we have been together I have truely had zero interest in another woman. Even during the bad times.

    It is so confusing how to handle the twist and turns. The ups and downs. I couldn’t sleep last night. I am really fighting is it worth it and how much time I should give her to turn it around.

  134. Broken2 October 25, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    cbj… my humble opinion you handled it beautifully!!! I don’t think I could have held it together like that hurting like you do. There needs to come a time however that the healer becomes her and not the other way around. You are in fact the victim here….but you were there for her as the walls come tumbling down. I think she is just looking for ways to make you feel bad about her behavior by bringing up your past relationships…a justification for her unjustifiable behavior. I know you question how long to give her to turn it around. Some people have to draw that line in the sand eventually and perhaps you will need to do that. Reality is in order for you to heal the cheating spouses has to put their own feelings aside and heal the person they hurt…its a selfless act from a selfish person. I can tell you however that you are only in the very beginning stages of affair recovery so don’t get discouraged yet.

  135. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    Broken2 Thanks. Your positive comments help so much. She told me it took 2 years to get here don’t expect it can reverse in a few weeks.

    When we began our relationship I traveled a lot and had to develop trust and she did also. While we were talking last night I mentioned that it was unlikely somebody else would have given her the freedom and put up with the BS so long. I trusted her respected her privacy but now regret it.
    She turn it over on me and said “maybe you shouldn’t have it might have shown you cared. Me giving her freedom which she had never had prior to me I now realize in someways was like dealing with a teenager emotionally. I hadn’t created clear boundaries.

  136. gizfield October 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    Cbj545, I’ve been following your story as you probably know. You have said a few things about your wife that are kind of troubling, like she’d had secret relationships on the past , that she mentions your ex a lot. Also, your problems seem to follow your financial situation.

    I went back and read some earlier posts of yours. You met in 1998, dated, she married an abusive alcoholic. Been there, done that . My question is that you said you “talked on the phone before she left him.” Also that you “supported her for a year but were “just friends.” Were you in a relationship during this time? This has all the makings of an affair. A secret relationship with a married woman, discussing her marriage. I’m just curious what your thoughts are on this.

  137. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    She has mentioned the ex relationship a few times but it is not constant. Last night it came up in another context. Before since they know each other and have mutual friends she would bring up seeing her. The other person has been living with somebody for 7 years. I have met him. But last night what she said was totally different.

    While she was married I was dating a lot. I was traveling a lot to different countries and dating. When I met the other woman I told her about my feelings for my now wife. I made no secret about it. Because I wanted her to understand I was not in a position to get serious.

    During the time when we were communicating and the year after leaving her husband we talked very little. ( in those days there was no email or texting or skype. We probably talked once a month and I would western union money. Before she left her husband we had actually only talked twice. She told me she was pregnant but never told me about the abuse. It was after she had left him that she told me. Our 2 conversations were not about her marriage. The other relationship was a disaster. Some fun times but my heart was always with my now wife.
    When I talk about secret relationships there was 1 in 2006 that was about 2-3 weeks. During the past 2 years I think she was meeting guys like dating in a sense but nothing serious. This is more my assumption than hard evidence. But at that point I knew she was mentally leaving the marriage.

    The financial situation hit the low 2 years ago. I was totally stressed and depressed. I admit ingnoring the relationship. Many times feeling that she would be better off without me. But I pulled through. Actually about 3 months before the affair started the financial situation had turned around.

    What she told me last night was even though she was reading about relationships etc. 2 year ago she said that she really began the checking out of it about the same time and emotionally detacted about 12 months ago.

  138. tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    OK Gizfireld kind of opened the Pandoras Box because when I read that post I little red flag went up. We’ve heard all the stories about abusive relationships that the OW are in so don’t be surprised if she didn’t use that story and her new rescuer.

    So all that being said, could part of the problem be that you were once her “hero”? You supposedly “rescued” her from the “abusive” relationship. Could it be that your finances and your positive financial situation contributed to her seeing you as her hero and now that the finances have gone south, she needs a new hero? I’m just asking, not judging. There are women who make themselves very innocent, needy, helpless and men eat it !!! And there are men who are very vulnerable to these feminine qualities. Men want to be heros. Women want to be princesses and men want to be Superman.
    I did the same thing giving my H too much space and naively trusting too much. Too bad she choose to see that as not caring. Again I believe a defense mechanism. Of course you would trust her, she never gave you a reason not to.
    Be careful about being too sympathetic too early. Also be careful about not being mad enough and letting her see that her actions have hurt you and you are angry about it. Learned that from Doug and Linda’s higher healing content :)!!! You are still in the early phase and you cannot work on marital problems until you face the affair. You’re getting the truth out. We call it trickle truth. Fact is it may take 4-5 months to get it all. You’re doing great. JUst don’t be too nice!! I’m just saying….

  139. tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    Need to add. Being too nice makes her lose all respect for you. She needs to respect you now most of all. Let her bawl her eyes out. She knows she’s screwed up, she’s scared and hard to say she’s torn between you and Prince Charming. She’s going to be all over the place emotionally.

    • Strengthrequired October 25, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

      This had crossed my mind too, he was her rescuer, and now she needed rescuing by her new man, since the finances werent so good. That is what I thought.
      Thank you for bringing that up, I Think I needed to see more information, before I mentioned it.
      Cbj was a top executive, he was handing her money before they became a item, she marries him has someone helping her raise her daughter, starts living a good life style, until the finances became a problem and cbj started to get depressed, she started wanting out, bu needed a new man to rescue her beforehand.

  140. gizfield October 25, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    Trying hard, I’m real ly glad you got a red flag off that as well. I knew something had been bothering me about this and couldn’t figure it out til I went back and read the earlier posts. I think cbj545 really loves her, but I’m not really so sure she loves him quite as much. The things she has said are REALLY ugly. But I’m not there, so I dont know and wish them the best.

    • tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

      It’s hard to get the real grasp on any of our stories. We can only understand what has been written and go from there with any kind of understanding. I hope we aren’t making CBJ feel worse than he already does. But it has to be a factor in their relationship.

  141. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

    You make a really good point. We lived together for about 2 years overseas before we were married. And I think there is that element in me of being a rescuer. I think that she recognizes that too. She has said to me I new a project and she was a project. Now she talks about standing on her own two feet. Feeling not dependent.

    Good for her in that respect. I grew up with an indenpendant mother and 2 sisters. I respect that a lot. It is a tough balance between sympathy and being distance right now. The one thing I told her is we are at a point where the past sh..t is over and now it is a choice if we stay together.
    I do know I will be OK regardless of the outcome. I do believe there are elements of codependency previously. So that is why I am here. Safe place to hear from people who have been there. She may be looking for another hero. Its really a great insight.

    • tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

      No the past is NEVER over until you have learned from it and do better. Men hate looking backwards–Masters and Johnson. The past becomes part of your life, your history, but it is never over.

      OK so you recognize you are a rescuer. Start from that point and look at this problem you are facing and how you contribute to it with that personality trait. It’s not a good or bad trait but it will certainly influence your decisions. Haha Google it for help. Yeah it is kind of co-dependent because in order for you to feel good about yourself you have to be pulling someone else up, ie showing them the way blah, blah, blah. Tell your therapist about this. Maybe you need to work on your “Superman” issues?

      While we are at it. I cannot stand women that think they are princesses. I mean really, grown mature women that want to be treated like princesses and cow towed to and rescued. Grow up!!! You are NOT a princess and never have been. Maybe when you were first born and for the first 5 years in your fathers eyes, but after that, trust me you were no one’s princess!!! I PREFER Czarina! Czarina TryingHard 🙂

  142. gizfield October 25, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    I also agree, Trying, that it’s very common to say that you are in an abusive relationship. It’s difficult to prove or disprove especially after the fact. The only “evidence” I would have is an aggravated assault charge on my husbands record for threatening me with a gun. It’s a felony, but was reduced in court. He never served a day and had it expunged from his record so I doubt I could prove anything.

  143. gizfield October 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    I hope we’re wrong, and she commits to the marriage. I definitely dont want cbj545 to feel bad but sometimes people will use you. not saying thats the case but it’s a possibility, esp.since he told her friend he loves her, shes the love of his life, etc.

  144. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

    TH and GF. You are not making me feel bad. It is really good to get your thoughts and comments. Although I am reading a lot so much stuff contradicts each other. I am lost in the forest.
    I had been really angry with her in the beginning. I am still angry. I certainly get what you are saying about the affair and in fact that was what I told her last night. There is no way to work on the marriage until she faces the affair. But then at the same time I am working on myself and then start making changes to myself which will be positive torward the marriage.

    So am I working on the marriage or working on myself.
    You give me a dose of reality in a world of total confusion and wishful thinking it can be fixed quickly. Struggling day by day. I am heading back to the other house next week just to get space for about 6 days.

  145. tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    No, you first. You cannot even start to work on the marriage until you lay down some boundaries and number one is No Contact with the affair partner. No matter what happens, stay or go, and BTW, the ball is in your court because if she really doesn’t want you or the marriage you don’t really want her do you? No it won’t happen over night. I’m 2 years out. Yesterday I was going to divorce that SOB 🙂 I’m still working on me.

    Good get out of town. Hate to say it she needs an ultimatum. You will just be chasing your tail and whatever is said as long as she is still in the affair is nonsense and more times than not does more harm than good. They are grasping and defending and rationalizing…. You can’t make sense from the nonsense that comes from their brain right now.

  146. gizfield October 25, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

    Cbj545, I’m really glad the comments are helpful because thats certainly my intention. I totally agree, the affair recovery info is very contradictory. I do like dr. huinguiza (???) and Mort Fertel. It will do you good to get away from it for a while. Try spending some time outside if the weathers nice. It helps!!

  147. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

    Its too hard to tell at this point but she said it was over last night and from the texting and phone records they stopped about 10 days ago. I can’t be sure and I am sure she is missing it. We taked about it last night. Affairs to make people feel good like a high. Not everything in it was bad from her perspective. At least she admitted it was an affair vs. a friendship and that there was a physical element.

    Does she love me. Right now “no”. Will she love me……?????. Will I stay…….????? All your comments are on the money with what I need to look at about my self.

    I am not going to bury my head in the sand. She may never come back. And as I heal I may not want her back.

  148. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 2:10 pm #

    My dog is getting lots of exercise and I just rejoined my gym

  149. tryinghard October 25, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

    YAYAYAYAY—You get it!!!! You are miles ahead. Jeff Murrah is also really good. I liked the two you mentioned, but Jeff is really pragmatic and straight forward in his advice.

    Yeah, Dogs are always the beneficiaries of affairs. I walked my poor little dogs legs off!!! I’m starting Pilates this weekend! I will beat this crap; Shrink for the mind, pilates for the body, and prayer for the soul. That ought to do it!!

    I also agree with getting outside, doesn’t matter, beach, woods, running trails, parks, just outside in nature.

  150. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

    I do think last night was a game changer in some respects. Not that it will result in a positive outcome but a new reality for her.
    EA’s seem easy for people to say, “it just a friend and I didn’t really do anything”. But me confronting the physical aspect might make the light go on. Shes always knew it but with the admition you can no longer call the black cat white.
    She also understands it puts her at higher risk of me leaving bcause i talked about that last night also.

  151. cbj545 October 25, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    Funny you talk about finding a new rescuer. I know they talked about money because he is a software developer and tried to get her to learn to write software code because the money was good. It so doesn’t fit her personality. She could last a week in that type of a job. Ane he was against what business she wanted to start.

    • Strengthrequired October 25, 2013 at 5:20 pm #

      Cbj, we may be wrong, but sometimes you need to look at past experiences. My h ow blamed my h for not rescuing her from her so called abusive h of 20 yrs, poor thing had left her h 3 times, the 3 time she started to set her sights on my h.
      Ohh how am I going to live, where am. Going to live, why didn’t you help me, blah blah blah. Funny though, this same woman told me before her ea with my h that her and her at the time separated h were friends. Now if he was abusive to her how can she still see him as her friend? Yet she didn’t say any of this to my h, she bad mouthed her so called abusive h and how she didn’t get to go anywhere, she was always home locked up. Blah blah blah.
      My h fell for all of her woes. My h tells me how he didn’t just hear it from her but others too, because these people witnessed it. Yeah right. Boohoo. He has mentioned to me way before this that her h never did anything to her in front of anyone because he needed to look good to them. Yet now his story changed, because of what she tells him, and what others tell him because they were trying to help her get my h.
      Anyhow she played on the victim role to make my h feel sorry for her, she made him feel guilty for not helping her, so he felt he needed to make it up to her, because it was all his fault after all.
      I have heard things from others that told me, she gave her h as good as she got, it came both sides, a really nice healthy marital union, but my h wouldn’t believe that.
      By the way, my h and I have a business, we were living pretty good, the ow wanted it for herself and her children My h was take her here and there, being mr wonderful hero. When he should have been focusing on his family. We are now struggling to keep things afloat, finances etc. Why? Because she used him, my h lost his mind in his delusional love affair, and now he is sane again trying to pick up the pieces.
      Of course the whole time I was the horrible wife, mother. She had him believe he deserved better than me, because of course she was the better choice. She would spend her time with him, he would come home to me, she would call him to make sure he was ok dealing with me. She would tell him how to speak to me. Ohh and yes at the very beginning apparently she was being his marriage counsellor, telling him how to treat his wife, because her marriage was s blissful, let’s listen to her advice. All I think is idiot for falling into such a trap.
      My h like you is a rescuer, he likes to feel like he is helping someone. Gives his ego a good boost, unfortunately for him he never needed to be my rescuer.

  152. Lynsey October 25, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    Strengthrequired said “She would spend her time with him, he would come home to me, she would call him to make sure he was ok dealing with me. She would tell him how to speak to me. Ohh and yes at the very beginning apparently she was being his marriage counsellor, telling him how to treat his wife, because her marriage was s blissful, let’s listen to her advice” This is the same stupid shit my H fell into with the parasitic whore. It still angers me that he would take marriage advice from a never-been-married, never- had -a- real- relationship whore.

    • Strengthrequired October 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

      I dont know what it is lynsey, but wouldn’t you think if these ow were so knowledgable about relationships they wouldn’t have to try and steal married unavailable men.
      Our men seem to fall for it though. Crazy as it is, that is their weakness, falling for a load of shit. My h would tell me that if I event out on my own and some man tried to crack onto me, that I wouldn’t know how to handle myself, he would worry that this man would take advantage of me. What does he think this ow did? Tickle his fancy and didn’t expect anything in return. She was on the take the whole time.

  153. cbj545 October 28, 2013 at 10:42 am #

    Had an interesting and good weekend. Spent lots of time reading and walking the dog. My wife and I spent some time talking and actually went out for brunch. 3 hours without discussing issues. A good time.
    Later when we got home she explained why the relationship ended. They argued a bit but she said she realized it over when he said, he was looking for his other half”. She said she wants a whole person not just a half.

    Later she was talking to me about some very personal stuff and I asked her why she was telliong me. She said that I am the only one that doesn’t judge her and accepts.

    I told her it has been difficult for both of us and we will miss each other when I am gone. She agreed.

  154. cbj545 October 28, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    We talk about out CS being in a fog and I think that each of us needs to do the same. Once we put ego and fear aside and start being honest with ourselves we start to move forward.
    The thing that stuck me while reading was the statement, ” all our preivious relationships have end. Only the one we are in has not”. That means that each of us has been able to pick ourselves up and find happiness again. It means it is out there again be it with your current spouse or somebody new. All of us are starting over, like it or not. It is our reality. i love my wife and hope we make it but the warts are now exposed in both of us.
    It is true that if I work on myself and exam my personal issues I will be healthier and happier in the future regardless of outcome. Treasure this time of self discovery.

    My emotions still run big swings but the frequency and pain is less. When I talk to her I really focus on controlling my emotions and saying what needs to be said without creating defensivness. She told me some things about my communication style that we good insight and when I look at my self I understand where she is coming from.

    Since I am working on myself I take t as a way to improve. I realize there is nothing I can do to change her. I wish she would start talking about what she needs to do and accept what she is done but that is up to her and untimately will be the deciding factor in the success or failure of our relationship. I understand that she left the marriage emotionally and that will take time to come back. Its a slow process and I must learn to be patient. But I am also defining what I will and wont accept in the future. And in the end it is about being true to yourself.

  155. tryinghard October 28, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

    It sounds like your weekend was productive on many levels. I am happy for you that you are finding answers. I guess I just had too much faith that the relationship I had with my H that I decided on many years ago would be one of those that lasted. I never thought about “happy” as being an option. I always depended on myself to find my own happiness and that my marriage neither made me happy or unhappy. Of course there were times, excluding his affair, that I wasn’t thrilled with his actions but I dealt with it. I spoke to him about it, even threw a fit and we always seemed to work it out. I never dreamed it was something that well if we just didn’t like each other anymore I could always find someone else and then leave the marriage. I had way too much to lose. Never even considered it. Too bad he didn’t. To say that I am happy now because we are reconciled and the affair is dead would be a lie. I have let his poor choices affect me WAYYY too much. I have to now work on turning that unhappiness around because most of the time I am just sad. I am grateful for everything I have, my family, my health, my business and yes sometimes my husband and the chance to create a whole new relationship with someone for I whom I care greatly. I don’t know if I would be “happier” with another partner or not or even if I were just to spend the rest of my life alone. A lot of people would suffer if or when I would decide to leave him. Me included and I just don’t know if it’s worth it??? With time and lots of work things do get better and I think all the reading and work you are doing is putting you on the fast track of getting there with or without your wife. You just have to weigh all your options regarding staying in the relationship or not. I know plenty of people who jump from marriage to marriage, relationship to relationship and they seem like the most effed up people I know. I keep all of you in my daily prayers. Especially the OW/OM because they are the ones that really need it :/

  156. cbj545 October 28, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    I agree with weighting all the options and jumping from relationship to relationship is a path to misery. But happiness comes from within. If you don’t find it for yourself you spouse certainly can not.

    I love my wife and am committed to putting in the work and time it takes. But I also had issues internally that I need to work on that will allow me to give to our relationship. What I have to accept is I have no control over her or her feelings. I have to accept that at the I may not be with her. Accepting thay (which I am not at that point) will provide a certain amount of peace.
    She emotionally checked out and I am not sure she can check back in. I can onlt be responsible for my actions. If she accepts or rejects is her choice. But if I do what I think needs to be done I will find more peace in this long process. You told me I have a tough dragon to slay. Plus she still seems not to accept what she did was wrong and still focuses on my issues. This is tough to swallow. But the reading has helped becauseI may be the only one working on the marriage for a while and need to accept that I may need to put in 90% of the effort until her light comes on.

    But I can say my working on myself and changing how I communicate about the affair and other issues has changed how she responds to me and she actually expressed how tired of the fighting before and how she was happy we seems to be able to communicate again.

  157. cbj545 October 29, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    One of the most confusing things that I am dealing with from all the reading is the concept of severing contact with your spouse. As I work on myself I feel I am making good progress and have accepted much of what has happened. I certainly understand why we must focus on ourselves and rebuild our self esteem. Broken people can’t go back into a broken marriage.
    But how to sever contact. We live together, see each other everyday. Talk everyday and of course there is loads of emotion inside me. I am controlling those when we are together right now and learning how to express in a more positive way but severing contact? How? I am heading out of town and actually since this started been gone a lot.
    Although we are spending time together in a positive way i know she is also focuesed on her issues. This is good. I just can’t seem to figure out how to balance between self focus and relationship focus.

  158. Broken2 October 29, 2013 at 11:33 am #

    cbj…Im not sure who told you to sever time with your spouse. I don’t think that is what they meant. I think they just mean to give her space if she wants it and to work on yourself for your own sanity. Personally I don’t think you should sever contact with your spouse…this is when you need each other the most. You need her to answer your questions and help you heal. SHe needs you to be there as she moves from lala land to reality. For the first few months we needed each other more then ever before in our relationship.

  159. gizfield October 29, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    I’m pretty sure the No Contact thing is supposed to be between the Cheaters, not the Spouses. Even when I threw him out, I still reserved the Right to contact him whenever I felt the need. Until divorce papers are drawn up, he’s MY husband. I certainly wasn’t going to step aside for some whore. Plus if you have children, you can’t cut them out of your life totally. So do whatever is best for YOU, not her.

  160. cbj545 October 29, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    There are such varing opioions. If I wait to resove all my own issues it will be 100 years old. I am working on my personal growth right now and have been through much of the phases getting to acceptance but also I fall backwards at some point daily.
    I know are time together is much better and our communication has greatly improved but I recognize she is not there for me and may not be for a long time if ever. I think TR was right when she said that the emotional speration she needed for the affair will be a tough dragon to slay. One of my lessons here for sure is learning patiences.

    Each person and relationship is different and what works or doesn’t work is very personal. I guess the most importand factor is setting new boundaries and finding the elephant in the room (and it may be a herd) so when the time is right to make sure they are addressed. I think in order to work the real issues that causes the meltdown some form of rebonding has to occur. I understand that in the beginning I will be alone in building this bridge.

    At least I am 99% sure the relationship is over. She seems to be cutting contact not just with him but that whole social circle of friends. She told me that she was just collecting friends that has simliar problems and created a terrible cycle. She leaves her ipad out, computer on and the phone records indicate almost zero traffic, Even with the old friends. It a bit strange but I think good because she is focused on her own issues.

  161. cbj545 October 29, 2013 at 11:59 am #

    One of the sad things but maybe in the end it will be a positive. My wife and step daughter have a very close relationship. When Dday occurred my wife was falling apart emotionally and told my step daughter about the relationship. Not good but it happened. My step daughter got involved a little in the beginning telling me that mom didn’t love me and would leave me. I know she was very hurt and was trying to protect her mom. treated me like sh..t. Although she is a new teenager so that is a bit par for the course. When I went to my second home it was to create distance so she wouldn’t need to be involved. Great decision. As i have learned to communicate in a positive way and control creating chaos she seems to have relaxed and diffently happier.

    Over the past 2 weeks she has been nicer to me that I can remember. Just talking sometimes. Kids get so hurt in all this and they need to feel stability and safe. In fact the part week she has slept with her mom everynight. We still are in seperate rooms. If I lead by example right now I hope she will gain some insight on relationships and love.

  162. cbj545 October 30, 2013 at 10:35 am #

    Well, the ugly truth came out last night. She told me a lot more about the affair. It was in the content of the relationship and not details like where the met and about the physical contact.
    She told me that she had met him a while back and then in July it was him chasing her. It wasn’t until August while she was visiting family. She said when I bought the second home against her wishes she decided enough and told him she would she him when she got back. That actual time she was involved was about 3 weeks. She said it was the attention and he knew how to express his feeling. It was nice getting morning text the said good morning sweetie. She said the text were romantic and al that BS.
    What she told me for the first time is that he was married. He told her he would divorce his wife and wanted to marry her. I told her he just want to get in her pants and she said probably. It was that the stopped the affair because she know she was in it for attention and him divorcing would not work. She told him divorce your wife then if I am free we can talk. She said she never told him she would divorce me.

    Whileshe talked the realization that she has absolutely no idea the impact of this has on me and of daughter. She said she was surprised that I actually cared and had felt that I was just waiting for her to leave. I asked her if I ever mentioned divorce or seperation and she said no.

    But probably like a lot of you something died inside of me last night. The feeling that maybe the road to recovery is to long. It was almost like d-day all over again.

    I guess if there is good news I fill more informed than before. What happened last night was necessary. I told her thank you for being honest and that would be the only road forward. Couldn’t sleep and for the first time really considering calling it quits. I know that is a knee-jerk reaction but it is still inside me.

    • tryinghard October 30, 2013 at 10:51 am #

      Trickle truth. Maybe it’s all out maybe not. You are the one who has to decide if you’ve heard enough. Breathe. Sleep, take something if necessary, but sleep. No good decisions are made on sleepless consciences. Don’t make any decisions yet. You are too hurt. You need to see also if she makes an effort. She’s still blaming you for her poor decisions. Not cool. OK so maybe there was a little communication break down there but still not a reason to cheat. They all say “I didn’t think you’d care.” WTF!!! I kind of get the feeling she is acting like the affair is no big deal because of the short life span etc, which BTW I seriously doubt only lasted that long. Just sayin..

      You’re doing great. Hang in there

  163. cbj545 October 30, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    Well in terms of how long you are right. She was a passive participatant taking the attention for about 1 week before she went on the trip and then 6 weeks of communicating while she was gone. But the actual heavy lifting lasted about 3 weeks from when she retuned until she told me. There was heavy communication for another week the it dropped off to a few texts and 1 -2 minute calls a few time a week until about 2 weeks ago. Since then she has almost cut off all communication even with other friends.

    I know I can’t make a decision right now but I think for the first time love died in me. Maybe it was the facts, maybe it is her not seeming to understand what she did and the ramifications or maybe I am just fu……ing tired of the whole thing and respect myself too much to take this shit.

    Or maybe I am finally really getting angry versus just sad.
    Who the fu……ing knows.
    What a fantasy.

    • tryinghard October 30, 2013 at 11:14 am #

      Yep it’s a fine line. I will tell you to be VERY sure if your relationship is that important to you because, as I have said before, this is no road for sissies. My daily morning prayer was to ask God if this was not his plan for me to take the love that I have for my husband out of my heart. It’s never happened and my deep love for my husband is what has strengthened me for the big personal battles I have been fighting for the last 24 months. You will know what is right and the time to make a move, but I implore you, listen to your gut. If something doesn’t seem right, it’s because it’s not. Fantasy is right but we have to make sure we are not creating our own fantasies either with regards to our spouses. They are effed up individuals and recommitting to a relationship with them is daunting to say the least.

  164. cbj545 October 30, 2013 at 11:39 am #

    Well, I guess that if there is good news she is finally beginning to address the issues from her past prior to me. There are huge self-esteem issues.
    She said something funny. She said I have to change and what if you don’t like who I change into. I told her I was tied of the old her burying everything and that now was the time. Get the help she need etc.

    My problem is that the affair seems so far down on the list of issues that I am not sure I can live in a vacuum for another 6 month to a year. Maybe I can but I am struggling at work without much sympathy. In fact the exact opposite.
    This is what scares me the most right now is hanging on to a job while I struggle through the marriage.

    Losing the job right now would be a complete disaster for everybody.

    • chiffchaff October 30, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

      cbj – it’s really hard to hold down the job during this crappy time. if it’s possible try to see your work as an escape from it for a while. leave the crap at the door if you can. if you can discuss the problems you’re having with your boss then do, my boss was very supportive and it helped me to cope at work and keep my job.
      I’m still amazed that my H managed to keep his job during that time. He spent most of the day during work hiding in a cupboard talking to either me, his parents, brother, friends etc. and was a real mess. I was convinced he’d get fired as he’d only just started the job.
      In terms of your W changing and whether you’ll like what she changes into, my H changed back into the person I loved but it took ages. The changes that have arrived are that he’s more self-sufficient than he used to be and aware of his selfishness.
      Each time of revelation from CSs is exactly like DDay all over again but it is necessary for progression and should be seen as a positive step if you can. No pain means no gain unfortunately. The fact that it hurts must surely mean you still love her.

  165. cbj545 October 30, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    You are probably right. At work my boss said he would be supportive but actually has not. I do still love her but it is so hard when the CS does not reach out at all. I initiate everything at this point.

    I guess in her own way right now she has shown that she is still in the marriage. We will see.

  166. Strengthrequired November 6, 2013 at 7:56 pm #

    Cbj, how are you going?

  167. cbj545 November 6, 2013 at 8:08 pm #

    Hi SR. Thanks for asking. I just got back from 6 days away. I am doing better. Just really trying to focus on work and my own things. We are talking a lot better and she seems to be looking more at the marriage but we are still a long way away I fear. I know there is still some communication going on. It seems to be mostly him contacting her but she still responds. I don’t bring it up because I dont want her to know I can still see what is happening.

    At some point I will and each time it sets me back but for now I need to just work on myself and follow the advise I am getting from different sources. I got Mort Fertel CDs and he says dont talk problems at first. I confronted her a lot already and she just has to make a decision. I have decided to give it 4-6 months and then make a decision. Just very lonely in the mean time.
    It seems a lot of people have moved to another blog. This one is at the bottom of the page now.

  168. Strengthrequired November 6, 2013 at 10:02 pm #

    It’s a long hard road we are traveling, but I know there is light at the end of this dark tunnel. You are stronger than I am cbj, I couldn’t help my self when finding out my h still had contact with the ow, each time I found out I told him, and let him know I was leaving, that he could have her, because I was done. I have to admit he tested the water a few times after I kept finding out, and then he stood up for our marriage.
    It’s funny you know, I think I am beginning to trust him again with all the time we are apart, although it’s hard, I have a strong feeling he truly is done with his ow. Of course I don’t really know for sure, but I always had this nagging feeling previously, now I don’t. They say listen to your instinct as it is always right. So I guess it’s a good thing.
    Maybe your w is weaning herself off of the om, these cheaters are funny like that, my h did the same, he kept hoping the ow would back away from him, but because she kept calling him, he kept responding.
    I guess they don’t want to hurt anymore people, but the problem is someone always gets hurt in situations like this.
    My h was always different after talking with the ow, so I knew something wasn’t right, that was my gut instinct.
    He has changed alot, he is more nicer and calmer now, I guess it helps without trying to please another person who is expecting the same as what a wife would expect. ( a husband in your case).
    I kept giving myself time frames, and each time I could see things get better, so would extend the time. I honestly started to believe when it hit the year mark of being unable to get id of t ow from our lives, that maybe I wasn’t going o be able too, which it was then I became more harder in showing him that I was ready to leave. I let him know that I won’t stay with someone that wants to share himself any longer, that I was done. I was prepared to take our children away from this mess, and I told him that he Ould have his ow if that’s what he wants, yet he can’t have both. I told him that I loved him, but I won’t be treated like his doormat anymore, I had tried to get through to him, I tried to save our marriage, and if things did not change then I was done.
    I told him that I will leave him be, he can enjoy his life, I will be happy for him, but I expect him to be happy for me when I found someone else. I also told him that for a while when we separate that I did not want to hear from him, that he needed to give the children and I time to settle in to our new life, and when we were ready, when the hurt isn’t as bad I would contact him, so he can see his children. I told him, that I needed to get over him, and hearing from him would not help my recovery.
    He knew I already had a place lined up for me to go, and he didn’t want that to happen. I guess that was when it finally hit him, he had to break away from the ow.
    It did end up coming to that point for me, where enough was enough. I was ready to let go.
    So my point to you is, if it comes to the 6 mth mark, and things seem to have improved, don’t be too hard on yourself for extending the time frame. Also you will know deep down when you have had enough.
    It is a very lonely time, I agree with you. Take care…

  169. cbj545 November 7, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    SR It is a long road and can only go 1 day at a time. We continue to talk and maybe it is a weening process she is going through. The activity shows little contact and she is a bit more open on her schedule. It is funny though because how she treats her phone now. On days when she has had contact she keeps it close. Other days now she will leave it sitting in the open.

    I talk to her about the blog and that it was helping and we talked about my healing process. She is still defensive and says in her mind the marriage was over and is so surprised I even cared. I told her that she never heard me talk about seperation or divorce and yes things had broken down and were bad, I never stopped loving her. Ya, I was angry, pissed, didn’t like her at times but I never stopped loving her.

    She said she visited some blogs. I have no idea which ones. She said she read some and then she comments, “Have any of these people actually looked at how they pushed their spouse away”. The blaming the spouse for their bad decision.
    I explained that each of us blames ourselves in the beginning and ask what did I do to cause this. But after some help and study you understand that yes we were part of the problems in the marriage but an affairs is a choice and a bad choice. If things were so bad there were other opinions such as divorce or seperation. I told her that regardless of how she thought I would reaction it was a trauma for me and I need to heal from it. I can find it in my heart to forgive but I need to heal and she needs to at some point feel sorry about what she did. She said she is sorry but it wasn’t like I am really soory. It is I hurt you but what I did wasn’t that bad.

    But it is progress. Her talking. What is positive in the past 3-4 weeks when I would try to hug her she would push away. Now she hugs back. Last night she was sitting on the couch and I came up from behind and kissed her neck. She just relaxed and let me hold her and give a few kisses.

    One issue I think is important is that we learn to be kind to each other. I dont expect we will jump in the sack anytime so but this is probably a positive as we work on the relationship and touching for other reasons than sex. It ain’t easy for me but it is good for me. Once we get back to a physical relationship I think a lot of people think things are OK. Better to take time and work on the right things now. Develop new habits. I don’t want to fall back to the old marriage.
    I told her that I am totally focused on working on myself. Even though I express how I feel about her it is not actually about trying to change her.
    I asked her to consider 2 questions.
    1. When she does something ask if it is good for the marriage or would it hurt the marriage.
    2. When she does something what does she think my reaction would be if I found out. If she can answer those 2 question in a positive manner than she is probably making a good decision.

    Progress is positive. But my strength is being tested.

  170. cbj545 November 15, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    Well it has been a while. I just started Mort Fertl’s “Lone Ranger” program. After listening to the CD’s he really made sense. It has now been 2 months since d-day I think all the advise to concentrate on myself has been life changing.

    Even though our relationship still has a long way to go and she still will not commit to the marriage I know the the ER is over. We have lots of good talks and have been spending quality time together. We have a date for Sunday.

    I feel so much better it is hard to describe. I have my moments but focusing on myself and working on just positive thought has made a different. I accept I can not change her and it will need to come from within her. I need to be patient. She said to me a few days ago that it took over 2 years to get into this situation and I can’t expect everything will be OK in a few weeks. She is right in fact more than right. It is giving me time to work my issues, develop new habits and focus on my priorities.

    Work is going good now and I took advanage of the not eating and sleeping. Lost the 22 lbs I wanted to and at the gym 4-5 times a week. Actually we went together for the first time this week. She did her yoga and i did my workout. I have almost given up TV and spend my time reading and learning. The body and mind approach.

    My love for her is less about trying to get her back to just showing her love. I understand I will be months a head of her when she decides to work but I am certain she will.

    Just giving love right now without a lot of expectations helps me stay focused on me not her.
    Hope everybody here is doing good and positive things are coming to all of you.

    • tryinghard November 15, 2013 at 1:37 pm #

      So proud and happy for you. LOL I wish you could motivate me to get to the gym 4-5 times per week!!! I signed up for Pilates over 3 weeks ago and have yet to make my appointment to go and I NEED IT!! Congrats on the weight loss, that is awesome. Keep up the good work. You are an inspiration 🙂

      • Doug November 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

        You should really do the Pilates. Linda loves it. To me, it looks like torture.

  171. cbj545 November 15, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

    TH Why have you not gone? Self Love is critical.
    Maybe I am on a new high from the stuff I read. Just a few things were The 5 love languages, The secret, The power, 5 apoligy languages and Mort Fertel CD’s and just starting the program. Everything is about self love. Looking at yourself and how did we play a role in our own situation.

    I told my wife that she can participate or not that I was going to do what was necessary for me. That the love I was giving I was try to have it unconditional (although we are human almost impossible at this stage) I told her I wanted us to be together but I was going to develop new ways of approaching thing and new habits and it would help me in our relationship or with somebody else if we dont stay together.

    I force myself every morning to meditate on focus on the positive aspects of my life. If I start to sink and get bad thoughts or feelings I stop and concentrate on refocusing my thoughts. Its tough. Its not a habit yet. But you got to do it.

    Please go to your class. Take the time and love yourself. Make it a habit. He is who he is. Accept it and you will be happier. He will change when he decides and all you can do is continue to give your love to him as he is today.

  172. tryinghard November 15, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    CBJ and Doug,
    I know I should go and I could give you a billion boring reasons why I haven’t and in the end they are just excuses and really it’s because I don’t put me first. Never have!! I should and I am trying but I am an old girl and it’s hard to beat old behaviors out of us. I will, promise, sign up next week that is unless something comes up, or working late, or one of my sons needs something, or I’m just too tired, or…….. 🙂 Love you guys. Thanks for the encouragement and kick in the pants, which I so desperately need!

    • Teresa November 15, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

      TH….I’m running my first 5K tomorrow….at 52!! I picked up my race info and shirt today, and I was so proud of myself!
      I’ll admit, I’m a bit nervous, I keep thinking “What if I’m the last one over the line?” LOL!
      But you know what? I’m doing this for ME, so who cares how good or bad I do, right?
      Just do it for you! That’s my attitude…it’s for me, and I’m going to enjoy every minute of it! 🙂

      • Doug November 16, 2013 at 6:47 am #

        Teresa, That’s great – Best of luck with that! Linda is running her first 5k Saturday as well – at 52. Maybe you’re running in the same race!

      • Rachel November 16, 2013 at 7:39 am #

        Good luck, Teresa !!! You go girl!

  173. cbj545 November 15, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    TH Never have needs to move to most of the time, then sometimes, then all the time. I am not a spring chickhen with old habits. But I do believe old dogs can learn new tricks.

    The something comes up can always wait. Just write a list of your priorities. If you are not are the top of the list. write it as many times as it takes to get you to the top. My guess is every priority can be put below you.

  174. Tryinghard November 16, 2013 at 9:01 am #

    Theresa and Linda. You go girls! Run fast, run for us! Inspirational indeed:)

  175. Teresa November 16, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    I did it…and it was AWESOME!! Thanks for the support! 🙂 I felt so powerful….like I can do anything now! WooHoo! 🙂

    Doug, I did the Run or Dye 5K…loved it! I even looked “purty” afterwards, lol!

    • tryinghard November 16, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

      T—Awesome!!!!! YES you CAN!!!

    • Doug November 17, 2013 at 8:55 am #

      Hey Teresa, That is fantastic. You should be proud of yourself! Linda did the “Girls on the Run” 5k – and ran the whole way! I’m very proud of her.

  176. Rachel November 17, 2013 at 8:22 am #

    Yay, Teresa!!! This is just the beginning!!!

  177. Linda T December 10, 2013 at 9:22 am #

    I would like to see a topic that would include PTSD coming back yrs. later after an affair. I mean over 20 yrs. later. I didn’t want this to happen as I had forgiven my husband 5 yrs. after the affair and moved on. I made the choice to love him again, even though he didn’t work on holding the marriage together, it was basically me, the betrayed spouse doing all the work while he just sat there and didn’t focus on anything. I had been through a mental breakdown, 2 surgeries and panic attacks and depression over his 3 year emotional/sexual affair. They slept together on two separate weekends, but he had only ever been with me and didn’t want to cross that line with the OW. She told me that she expected him to but when he didn’t give her anything sexual to go on that dictated what she wore to bed. The final lie detector test done by a renown detective showed that he didn’t do anything sexual with her. I believe that he didn’t during those 3 yrs. as I can only find evidence of 2 weekends that they went away on and to me if they had been having sex they would have found more ways to meet. Also, he had never been in bed with anyone but me and he said he was very uncomfortable. She suggested the weekends so they could be alone and no one looking over their shoulder. I still feel he did more in bed then what he is telling me and who knows, maybe he didn’t because he was unable to? I don’t know if I’ll ever know the truth, totally! I would like to hear if their are other’s out there that have had the A come back 10, 15 or 20 yrs. later full force? Mine occurred due to how he was treating me. Not very loving, drinking more, outburst of anger and just not being himself and now looking back, that’s how he acted during the affair. I didn’t know about affairs then as I trusted him so much and loved him equally, like I thought he felt about me. Total trust in our relationship as I would have bet a million dollars that he loved me enough not to cheat on me. I know I felt that way about him. I loved him as much 25 yrs. after our marriage as the day I married him. I can’t tell you the shock I was in when I found out about the affair. The point of this post and I am curious if it’s happened to anyone else is this. I was in so much pain after finding out about the affair that I couldn’t face what he did, thus I couldn’t bear to hear the truth, so I shoved a lot of questions under the rug not to get hurt any more. Now I want to know the answer’s to what happened during those 3 yrs., how he could do that to me if he truly loved me, like he sad he did? Didn’t he even think of what would happen if I found out, her husband did, but she covered that up real well. They divorced 1 yr. later, which affected their 2 little girls. Affairs are so selfish, it’s a shame that people who cheat can be so selfish and only think of themselves. Now, over 25 yrs. later he claims to not remember many things, so I’m not getting the answers that I need to move past them again. I’m stuck in space, no answers and the whole situation is making me very mad and he’s also angry, along with our children for bringing up something that I supposedly forgave him for 25 yrs. ago. His actions or lack of caused this to all come back. I hadn’t thought about it hardly at al for those 25 yrs., now I can’t stop thinking about it and we are both miserable and both just turned 70 yrs. old. Not to many yrs. left but they have to be happy ones and neither one of us are happy. So, that’s the question I would like addressed.

    I think a good title for these type of questions would be, “Missing Parts In Affairs Need To Be Filled.”
    Thanks for listening,

  178. strengthrequired January 9, 2014 at 4:31 pm #

    I was just thinking about a topic.

    What slogan would you like to give your cs, or om/ow

    Such as a t-shirt

    I’m with skank
    I’m with a married man/woman
    I suck at finding single people, married only for me

    How about
    Skank sits here…
    This is not my wife/husband

    I don’t know, just thought to lighten things up abit. Have a bit of a laugh to see what comes up.

    • strengthrequired January 9, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

      Ohh and –

      skank on board

  179. strengthrequired January 9, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

    What about for the car,

    Cheater on board, next stop skank city.

  180. Gizfield January 9, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

    Good ones, Strength. I’m going to hsve to think about this, lol.

  181. Aaron G November 11, 2016 at 12:43 am #

    Thanks for all who post here. Betrayed Husband here. D-day was 4-2-16. We stayed together. I feel sorry for her doing this after 19 years of marriage and 2 teenage kids with me. I will never trust her or any other woman again fully. Ive been working out like a beast since it happened.Quit drinking. swim every day. Ive lost like 70 lbs. Dr said my health is great for 44 years old and no stds yet. Took a kickboxing class this summer to relive my 20s and imagine like I was kicking the other man she cheated with.

    It started as an EA in februrary 2016 and led to sexting in march. One physical encounter in hotel room late march when she was visiting her parents 600 miles away. He drove 200 miles to meet her. He used a condom and supposedly neither had orgazm because the sexting was so hott in real life he was too nervous and went soft. My feelings feel empty on the inside. Supposedly they have had no contact since may 2016. Im only with her because she is extremely special to me and she promised she would never do it again. It was her childhood crush. I will forgive ONCE. Ive never even held another womans hand since 1993.

    I was doing so good for a while but the past few days have brought triggers for me. Crying again daily. I hate crying.

    Sometimes I feel like a revenge affair but I stop those thoughts. I do imagine though,what Paula’s hourglass figure looks like in person.

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