separation after an affair
There is no question that separation after an affair is a very complicated issue and there is really no simple, clear answer.

The other day someone in an email asked us about separation after an affair.  This person had recently discovered her husband’s affair and was considering separation and asked if it was a good idea to do so – and if so, when.

There is no question that this is a very complicated issue and there is really no simple, clear answer. However, there are some important factors to consider.

First of all, separation after an affair can mean different things to different people.  Some folks might consider it as just a temporary break from one another in order for them to simply get through the initial shock of the affair while in survival mode.  While others may consider separation a more permanent status and as the first step in the divorce process.

Linda and I never considered separation, though in hindsight she probably wished she would have kicked me out for not immediately ending my emotional affair.  If that would have happened I believe that would have been of the temporary break variety mentioned above.

There’s an understandable tendency to second-guess whatever actions you take (or don’t take) in dealing with an affair and which direction to go. In general, it’s probably best to go slow in making any significant decisions such as separation since the flood of emotions makes it difficult to think clearly.

The process for clarifying one’s thoughts can be difficult and can take a lot of time.  More than likely the speed for which this happens will not be effected by whether a couple separates or stays together.

It is usually not wise to make any decision such as separation after an affair while one or both spouses are in a highly charged emotional state.  If they do choose to immediately separate after the affair is discovered, it’s usually a knee-jerk reaction based on emotions and not from logical thought.

Peggy Vaughan, author of “The Monogamy Myth,” states that… 

“It’s virtually impossible to think clearly enough during the immediate aftermath of the discovery of an affair to be capable of making such an important decision as to whether to separate. How well you’re able to live with the decision (whatever it is) is primarily determined by whether you can honestly say to yourself that you put forth your best effort in making a good decision that you won’t immediately doubt and second-guess.”

This brings us to why a couple would choose separation after an affair and Vaughan felt that “the only sensible reason to separate is either 1) if there is total clarity by one or both parties that they’re absolutely positive they want to get a divorce, or 2) if they have devoted the necessary time and energy to talking through the entire experience and determining that they cannot use this crisis to develop a new (different) relationship based on honesty. In the final analysis, the decision as to whether or not to separate needs to be based on the prospects for the future of the relationship (as determined by how this crisis is dealt with) rather than based on what happened in the past.”

A third reason we should add is because the cheater is continuing the affair.  In this case, the betrayed may use separation as an effective strategy for stopping the affair, such as with Dr. Willard Harley’s Plan A and Plan B strategy.

We’ve noticed lately that many of the people that we talk to who have separated, truly still love their spouses and want to try and save their marriages but made the decision to separate based on emotion.  The initial premise may have been as a temporary break from each other, but often this turns into a more drawn out thing, sometimes lasting several months or more. 

Desperation, stubbornness and feelings of helplessness and hopelessness set in and any chances of reconciliation seem highly improbable.  In these instances saving the marriage becomes much more of a challenge.

We’d be interested in hearing from any of you who have chosen separation after an affair.  What were your reasons and what has been the outcome?  What would (if anything) you have done differently? 

Likewise, if you considered separating but chose not to, why not? 

 

    96 replies to "When and Why to Consider Separation After an Affair"

    • Notoverit

      I know you asked for comments from people who did separate after discovering the affair but I have often thought about this very issue so I just had to say something. LOL

      Right after D-day I kept thinking that I should just leave; after all I had always said that if I caught my H cheating that I would. I didn’t. Fear and anger kept me in there fighting. Also, my need to control things (which since I have fought to learn to let go thanks to my counselor) made me believe that I could MAKE my H listen and change. The big thing was the constant haranguing that I did – day in, day out. I really wish I could go back and tell myself to just shut up. I said some pretty awful things, some true but not necessarily things I should have said.

      Looking back, I wonder if a temporary separation would have been better for me. I wouldn’t have so many regrets about the things I said in anger. I wonder if any of you out there feel the same (those who are at least on their way to healing now). I understand that such a separation might have hindered our reconciliation and hindsight is 20/20 but maybe it would have helped me not be such a bitch at the time. I do have regrets and perhaps being apart would have kept me from doing and saying things I wish I could take back. I don’t know. Just wondering if any of you who didn’t separate wonder that too.

      • Doug

        Thanks for the comment Notoverit. We must have been on the same wave length because I just added a statement asking why those who didn’t separate decided not to. Try not to beat yourself up about what you should have or shouldn’t have done. Chances are that most of what you said your spouse needed to hear anyways.

      • suziesuffers

        THANK YOU Notoverit!! One of the issues I’ve been struggling with over and over is some of the mean things I said about my husbands (multiple!!) affairs, but mostly about the last affair which was EA/PA and he expressed alot of affection and emotion when discussing this woman. I said some things that were true and made me feel sad because I know that they were said out of anger, even if they were true and other’s that were just mean because I was hurting so much and he seemed to respond to my pain, but didn’t seem to think he needed to do anything but have me forgive him and move on. He said his divorcing me was also triggered by my intrusive looking at his email and phone records (although his behavior after the affair including craiglist personals, attempted connection to someone on facebook and other inappropriate (at least I thought after an affair it was) behavior) and me “berating” and demeaning him with my comments. Funny, he called it abusive….didn’t seem to think his multiple affairs were abusive but should just be forgiven and we move on……. I’m still struggling with this whole mess and I guess can’t believe he’s so self centered….even after his 5 years of sobriety in AA……the 35 years previous warped his brain…

      • Gina

        I feel excatly the same!!!!!!!! Oh lord the things i said were horrible to say the least!!! I think the worst thing he ever said back was Bitch !! 3 yrs of hell i bitched at him!! ~

    • Greg

      Both my wife and I considered seperation but didn’t mainly due to our children. Once we decided we were going to work through our problems we wanted them to have as normal a life as possible. Even though we still live under the same roof we are as close to seperated as possible to give each other the space we need to work on ourselves until we both feel ready to be fully recomitted to each other. We would initially hide the fact that we were sleeping seperately from the kids for the first few months but that became impossible when my wife took to sleeping with them alternately each night. She eventually moved in to the guest room once I voiced my issues with her sleeping arrangement with than and her counselor told her it was a bad idea as well. At this point, nine months out, we are still sleeping seperately but have an almost normal house life. At some point in the future I am hopeful that she will feel comfortable enough to come back to our bedroom but she’s not there yet.

      • theresa

        I have similar sleeping arrangements. And I ask myself,
        ” self, why did he get our bed?”

    • E

      We discussed separation many times and I was told twice by my H that he would find somewhere to go for a couple of weeks in order for him to think clearly. He never left, but instead told me that he had ended things with OW. Fast forward to Dday #4 and I could no longer stand by, I had finally gathered enough strength in myself, with God’s help – he sent a friend out of the woodwork, literally! So instead of waiting for him to leave as I had before, I left. When I left, I still loved my husband very much and I still wanted to save my marriage but I could no longer live that way. So my reason for leaving is the third reason, because he kept going back to her. I left with the knowledge that it very well could be over for good this time and I accepted that, although it hurt horribly. My H would say now that it was the best thing that I could have done, for both of us. He would say that it took me leaving to wake him up. When I felt like I was ready to go back home, it was scary. But I said to myself – “this is it” … either we make it or we don’t, period. Any further contact and I would be gone again and not return. I learned in those 6 weeks that I could do it and that I would be OK.

    • Dee

      I too wish my H and I had seperated for a while immediately after his EA. We were apart for about a week, and the manner of his leaving meant that our children knew about it too (his actions, not mine). However, my reasons for wanting to be apart for longer differ from Notoverit’s. I regret how willingly I accepted his ‘version’ of the affair. He said it had ‘been in the past’ (it wasn’t), that it had been nothing more than an ‘anguished flirtation’ (It was much more) and that he had realised that he still loved me (and yet, continued to pine for his AP for a long time afterwards).

      I panicked and so did he…Me because, I still loved him and wanted our family back together as quickly as possible and he, because he realised that there was no future in the new relationship as his AP was nearly 20 years younger than him and because he is a fundamentally good man who had never done anything like this before and had shocked himself as well as others. He was in an emotional turmoil as he had had to end his EA and mourned it for so long…..I knew it, but had promised my children that it would never happen again.

      I cannot begin to describe the damage that was done not only to our relationship, but also to my self-esteem and I greatly regret how I acted during that time – like a desperate, needy woman. I accepted things from him I never should have and had to listen to what he said to me whilst he was in the ‘affair fog’.

      As a result it took us much longer to recover and if I’m honest, I’m not sure I ever will. Things are much better than they were and I think my husband would say that he is happy and our relationship has improved…but it haunts me, even after all this time, that I, a hitherto proud, confident woman didn’t tell him to leave to give me (as well as him) the space to really decide what and who we wanted. I feel as though I compromised myself and I can’t ever go back…sorry, perhaps it’s just a bad day….

      • suziesuffers

        How long have you been in recovery from D day? I was still in tremendous pain after a 1 1/2 years although we weren’t living together and were in different towns (5 hours apart) because of my mom’s cancer….and he didn’t want to go to counseling because he had “friends” in AA and the AA book that said……let bygones be bygones and don’t discuss the affair. I know why there are so many divorces in AA…..they rely on the other sick buddies that have divorced because most have had affairs during their drinking days. SAD.

    • WriterWife

      My husband and I separated for a couple of weeks about a month after D-Day. He works with the OW (who was also our best friend) and he just wasn’t cutting off communication (work-necessary communication was allowed, but he was always pushing or breaking that boundary). He also wouldn’t commit to cutting her out of our lives. Early on I’d asked him what he’d do if I gave him an ultimatum between me and her and he’d essentially said he couldn’t imagine his life without her in it (at least as a friend).

      In the beginning I thought about asking him to leave many times but ultimately realized I’d be hoping he’d beg to stay (or, if I left, that he’d chase after me). Then one morning I woke up and realized that if he wanted to have her in his life then I wouldn’t be in his life. Suddenly, it was just all very very clear to me: he had to choose me or her. I journaled my thoughts and crystalized them into two points: (1) his continued relationship with her hurt me because of their past EA and I wouldn’t be in a marriage with someone who so willingly hurt me; and (2) the OW, my “friend,” had betrayed me and I wouldn’t be in a marriage with someone who would continue a relationship with someone who’d treated me so poorly.

      I wrote out my reasoning in a letter and included what it would take for us to get back together: him cutting her out of his life. I wanted it to be very clear to him. We agreed that we’d wait to make the separation official until talking to our marriage counselor. He later told me he really thought she’d counsel against the separation — he thought it wasn’t going to happen. But she recommended it and called it a therapeutic separation: we wouldn’t communicate except twice during the week (two dates). He moved into a hotel for two weeks.

      I think it opened his eyes to what life would be like without me and how serious this was. In the end, he agreed to cut her out of his life (though that sort of didn’t go so well as he refused to de-friend her on facebook – ARGH!)

      Because my initial reaction is always to flee, I have to fight against that to work through the tough times. I wanted to make very very sure I wasn’t using a separation as a game — I didn’t want to test him (i.e. if he loves me, he’ll come after me). I wanted to make sure that if the separation ended up being permanent, I would be confident in the decision (no matter how painful it had been). I didn’t want to waffle in that conviction because I was afraid he’d take from that that he could do anything with no adverse consequences.

      I’m glad I did it for many reasons — it advanced our recovery and it taught me I could make the difficult decisions when I needed to. I’d always worried that I would allow myself to be treated as a doormat, I was glad to learn there comes a point when the waffling ends and I can and will draw the line and start moving forward, even if I do it alone.

    • Jim

      Right now I am trying to decide what to do. I would like to move into our spare bedroom but cannot. My 28 year old daughter and her fiance and her 3 kids are staying with us. They are supposed to move out next weekend. But I have been walking on egg shells because I do not want them to be hurt. Yet I am sleeping next to the person who broke my heart. After my daughter leaves we will have more time with each other or apart from each other. I am thinking I need to be apart. the wounds are fresh and I am torn. It may be a separate bedroom or a separate house.

      The funny thing is how we want to see what we want and not what is really there. I wanted to see it was over and my wife and marriage was fine. And I trusted so easily after the first time finding out. The second time put me into a tail spin and that is when I started wanting to check emails, texts, etc. But I wanted to not be that person that obsesses.

      I have been searching everywhere for answers and everything I am reading about on this site, seems like people have been writing about my life. It is strange how people from different walks of life have the same experiences. I looked at an old post about excuses on this site and number 1 or 2 was “they are helping with our marriage”.

      Since she probably has not given up on yet on the OM, I am not sure how to deal with her. (Yes my eyes are wide open now.) I think the only thing that will wake her up is separating. She told me yesterday, my mentioning divorce made her think. But I know inside myself that she is still talking to him.

      My question to everyone is how do you deal with family events (birthdays, weddings, holidays) with this going on? I barely made it through Easter with both sets of families (mine and hers).

      • Greg

        Family events are rough. I’m lucky in that her family lives in Japan and I only have my parents here, I’m an only child. Even with just that we just skipped Easter, neither of us was up to pretending through that. I’ve told my parents that we are having problems but nothing specific, she has told her parents about the EA but not about other issues that we are working on. At a certain point I know that we’ll have to tell them more than we have just so they don’t trigger anything accidentally but it’ll take time. Doesn’t help that my mother is the source of of some of our issues. 🙂

        • Jim

          Greg- It is rough when parents and in laws are part of the problem. I have a good relationship with my in laws and my wife and mother get along too. I have caught my wife telling a “friend” of hers that I am possessive and told her to end a “Friendship”. That is so far from the truth but it also makes me wonder what she would tell her mother if we did break up.

          Also we have been together 22 years and married 21. So it is the children and grandkids that are their too. I did not want to go to Easter but I did it because it would have killed me to tell the kids why.

      • WriterWife

        Jim – I’ve definitely felt the same way you do. We don’t have kids which made us separating for a couple of weeks much easier. I posted more fully earlier, but for me the decision to separate temporarily came down to me deciding I didn’t want to live with him then or in the future if he wasn’t willing to give up the OW for me. I deserve better. It took me several weeks to come to this conclusion (I’d waffled back and forth before that), but when I did, it was with conviction. It was very important to me that I had such conviction because it made me stick firmly to the separation — I wasn’t going to allow my husband to “have his cake and eat it too.” I’ve tried to make very clear to my husband that he either gets me as his wife or not at all — if we divorce, I am out of his life. But again, it took me a while to come to this conclusion — I had to work through a lot of emotions first.

        As with family events… I/we pretend. I found out about his EA over Xmas when his father was in the hospital and so I couldn’t leave his family’s house to go home and deal with the emotions. I couldn’t even look at my husband but I still made myself present during family dinners and tried to be engaged with the rest of his family. I just didn’t spontaneously hug, touch, talk to, etc., my husband unless not doing so would make it clear there was an issue. Then I’d go “take a nap” and lie in bed sobbing.

        The evening I told him he had to move out we then had a dinner we couldn’t get out of and we just packed up all the emotions into a box and pretended nothing was wrong. It was actually kind of a relief to interact with my husband without the emotional baggage right on the surface.

        But when I’m around his family, I definitely take time for myself — take walks or baths or “naps” — so that I can get away from the strain and shore up my emotional strength before facing it all again.

      • Lynsey

        Greg, it is tough to get through family events. Two weeks after D day, my dear mother in law died and our house was filled with out of state family staying with us. So in addition to grieving for her, I had to “act” like our marriage was fine. I escaped to the bathroom to cry, or to the bedroom to take a nap or pound the pillows in anger whenever I could. The toughest part was holding it together when my H went to “get a haircut, then called to say the appointment was moved to later in the day, so he’d just hang around in town. What a lame excuse – i knew then it was to see the OW (a month later he admitted this) But wow, I could handle that in front of family. I hid the anger by punching pillows in my bedroom, going to bed earlier than everyone else in the house, focusing on and interacting with relatives and in-laws who were most talkative and could keep my mind occupied. I guess we all find strength to get through these events. Use whatever means you can to get through it, and always be good to you.

    • Surviving

      We discussed it, many times I wanted too because the pain was so deep, if leaving would have taken the pain away I would have made him leave, but I kept hearing it wouldn’t so we stayed together. I’m not sure we would be where we are today if he left. Is he staying because it wouldn’t work out with her or because he really wants to be with me?
      I still don’t trust him and not sure if I ever will at least not like
      before.
      I also wanted him to see the pain he caused. I didn’t care if he missed her I never asked during this time it was all about me and my healing. I think if he left he wouldnt have gone thru this with me. It would have been harder to deal with our issues, it would have been easier for him not to come over and see the pain he caused. By staying together we were forced to deal with all the stages of recovery together.

      • aida

        dear surviving, hi….at least you are lucky as you and your spouse are dealing with it together.

        I’m kind of at the crossroads = hubby complained that I plainly neglected him and he thus found someone else who wanted to play. Haha.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        i’ve been struggling to get back on track….. only GOD knows how desperate i have been at times. but i must admit that there are also good days, when i have endured so much pain and rejection and even suicidal thoughts that ultimately i feel some sort of gung-ho-ness. i may be that it is a rebound from my downward spiral and maybe i shall be having a downturn again.

        but having said that I am glad to see that I have friends here who are willing to step in and save lives. (you know who you are!)

        the only thing that I haven’t really figured out is how to be there but not be pushy.

        let me explain, he said he was ‘pushed into an affair’ because he was neglected. okay, so maybe it is true….i mean, some men are more susceptible to it then others.

        so now, i have to figure out how to be ‘present’ without being ‘too present’ – or he’ll think i’m insincere and desperate.

        that’s the tricky part.

        if i live happy without him – then i’d be proving his point that I don’t care about him (which he somehow takes very seriously!)

        and yet

        if i try to offer him love and affection – he said he doesn’t know whether i am sincere, or whether the old cycle will be just ultimately repeat itself at the end (a cycle of rejection and neglect). and thus he rejects me and ultimately i feel

        i need to reach a happy medium between the two.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        any advice?

    • aida

      Jim —- OMG we share something so similar that at some point i thought you were me. almost.

      here’s a thought for you guys….

      been married 16 years. have 2 kids. 2nd (known) affair. mostly crazy marriage because he said that i have neglected him. and that he ‘coincidentally’ found someone who cared more about him than i did.

      first affair – i told him to end it. he denied having any. i bombarded him almost night and day. it became an obsession. two and half years i was a zombie.

      after a while i said, WHATEVER! and tried to rebuild life and marriage – to the best that i can.

      by then he probably had begun to enjoy the taste of Satan’s lures (i.e. women and illicit affairs).

      he then had a 2nd affair – long before my dear old dad died.

      2nd affair : i said, okay – you in love. now I WALK OUT . with kids.

      he denied having affair. he lied. he lied some more. i said, SORRY PAL, YOU ARE BUSTED.

      i said, i’ll walk out because you in love. i don’t want to stand in your way – actually i was done trusting this fool. i said okay you win, pal.

      he said okay – reluctantly – i went to officials to start court-endorsed counseling. i wanted to bring kids out. officially. he sort of ‘challenged’ me one day to get the official date for the counseling.

      i got the date – 16 APRIL 2012. I told this blubbering counselor that i didn’t really want to leave marriage but at this juncture i didn’t know what else to do. told counselor, it’s best that we leave him and the woman alone since he is committed to that relationship, hence why should we intrude upon their loving affair.

      AND LO AND BEHOLD …. you know what husband said ?

      key points :

      (a) his negativity to me had been growing – like a cancer. for years. so there was no need to re-hash everything. l was supposed to know what i was supposed to do but somehow didn’t do it. (well, it was conveniently overlooked that he knew what he was supposed to do but didn’t do…. [but that’s for another day] )

      his question re this was “would it be possible to settle the ‘core’ issue” – i’m guessing it is my neglect of him.

      (b) he had found someone who was willing to listen to him

      (c) (oooh, oooh, get this !) “My wife is an orphan, who could she possibly depend on (if we were separated?)….and the kids?”

      i’m like HUH? first of all, you ignore me to the point of rudeness and yet you worried about me being an orphan and that i had no one to turn to if I WALKED AWAY? by the way, i’m 43 years old going on 44! and the kids (12 & 9) have said, “Daddy is unworthy of the role as head of our family!”.

      and yet Daddy is worried where we want to go? I almost died laughing.

      (d) Daddy btw has agreed to keep the ‘file open’ for the time being – the case will be considered closed if there is no further developments in the next 6 months.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      On the way home – i said ‘let me buy you lunch’. he agreed. tonite, he has ignored me again. completely turned away from me in bed – many, many times.

      so…… er, who is it who said, “Where will she go, who will she turn to if we get a divorce?”

      • Jim

        My problem is my wife is on disability due to fibromyalgia. She would not be able to support herself on Social Security Disability. I feel obligated to help but she is the CS, not me. The “Where will she go, who will she turn to..” is my question about her. She has family and our adult kids and maybe the AP but he lives out of state. She is keeping me hooked with this.

        • aida

          Jim…. i feel for you, man

        • WriterWife

          I think this definitely complicates things, Jim. I wonder if perhaps seeing an individual counselor could help you sort through all of this? If you do decide to separate, I think a counselor might be able to help you deal with the additional emotions that could come from this situation.

          • Jim

            WriterWife – It is definitely complicated but aren’t all of us dealing with perceived complications. I would be calling a counselor today IF I had insurance. I have been without it since September 2010.

        • aida

          Jim, can i ask you a stupid question? related to your reply to my earlier post.

          you seem like a very nice guy. why would any woman want to destroy her relationship with you?

          ok…sorry, i just wanted to get that out of the way. sorry.

          • Jim

            Thanks for the compliment. I am sure I have my moments when I drive people nuts. ;> I did need to hear that this morning. I am having a rough start to my day. I just feel like throwing up.

            The thing is she is not thinking of destroying our relationship. She is/was focused on creating a relationship with him. Not even a thought of what this is doing to me. I have read it here and other places. It is selfishness. The what’s in it for me.

            Maybe that is what I need to start saying and living. What’s in it for me?

            • Jim

              I hit submit too soon.

              I need to start worrying about my life and what I want. I need to worry about protecting my finances if we separate. I need to start worrying about my health. I need to worry about my feelings. I need to worry about me.

              I am a good guy. I have heard many women ask my wife, “Where did you find him?” “I wish I had someone like Jim”. There are others that would want me.

              In a way and I told my wife this after D-Day 2. I feel like I am the abused spouse. Something bad happened and the CS says “I am sorry. If you stay it won’t happen again”. Yet I stay and it does. Do I keep acting like an abused person and going back for more? Or do I get up the guts and leave? It may not be physical abuse but this sure feels emotionally terrible. She is not verbally abusive but emotionally I am hurting just the same. But like ans abused person, we say that’s ok. It will get better and we do not leave.

            • Greg

              Jim, honestly if the illness was out of the question would you stay in this relationship?

              If the answer is no then you need to go as staying out of pity is not going to fix anything it just lets her know that she can do what she wants to you and you’ll take it. Yes I know it’s a hard decision but as you said you have to start thinking of yourself and how to heal you.

            • Jim

              Greg,

              My parents divorced and I said I never wanted one. And I still don’t.

              I really do love her. I have been committed to her. I guess I took the vows seriously. You in sickness and in health, richer, poorer, etc. Even as she had to quit or got fired from jobs due to her undiagnosed illness. Then through the diagnosis and the fight for 2 years to get disability. During that two years she could not work and I worked my tail off to support our family. Our love life suffered and I stayed.

              The funny thing is a year ago she was on a support board for Fibromyalgia and saw that many people (mostly women have the disease) are separated because their spouse cannot handle the disease effects. She said many people told her she was lucky.

              Well Greg, back to the question. I have already decided that I cannot worry about her illness or how she will support herself. That is her problem, not mine.

              If I stay it is because either I decide to put up with stuff or she really does give up the EA. It is my decision to stay or not. It is hers as to who she wants. I told her it is me or him. I know she understands this but somehow that emotional bond that W and AP have is keeping her in the fog. I just hope that she wakes up soon before it is too late.

              Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for sharing your stories. You have all helped me a lot.

            • Greg

              Good for you Jim. You know your mind and what you want, that is usually the hardest part. I hope everything turns out for the best and you two have a long, happy life together. While I never had to deal with divorce in my family and don’t like the idea of it, I understand that at some point it is better than the alternatives.

    • Paula

      I have been separated from my ex-partner, father of our three lovely kids, of 24 years for about a month. We have separated, temporarily twice in the past three years, and also one other time, when we both thought it was permanent, but reconciled. The total separation time is probably about eight months, but we still work together and saw each other most days, there is no acrimony at all, which is fantastic! I made a pact with myself on D-night that I wouldn’t do anything rash, that I would work through the flurry of emotions, and gave myself a year to see if we could still work, and he was very, very willing to do the work from that day. I was lucky in that he had already made his decision, he had ended the 15 month long PA with one of my oldest friends (known her for 33 years) over a montbefore I found out – she texted me the info, brave, huh! – she was very involved in our life, although she lived three hours away from us, to the point where she used to come on holiday with us to our hoiday home, etc. We still love each other very much, all of the separations have been my decision, I just can’t bear the pain of the foreverness of what they did, the fact that they didn’t use protection, and I got an STI – one sexual partner in my whole life, and I got a “slut’s” disease, because I didn’t have the information to protect myself, and the every day battle for me to try no to let it taint my future. I only decided this last time to separate, because this has now been a very long journey, and my emotions are still very raw, and hurt, despite a lot of work, and I think staying in the place that makes you so unhappy is just asking for the unhappiness to follow you throughout life. I’m no happier alone, but I know I have to push through this phase. We are good friends, and good parents to the children we still have living at home. (And the one who lives in another city, lol!) We were also lucky to have the use of a furnished house we have on the same property, at the time of the first separations, as the financial burden of separate rent was avoided, and the children were happy that we were all still very close by. I know this will follow me to a degree throughout the rest of my days, but there has to be a better way to live than in constant pain. I tried desperately to quit the pain, not the person, but I just couldn’t seem to make the progress required, for whatever reason.

    • roller coaster rider

      This post is very interesting. A year ago when I found out about the EA/PA I was devastated, comparing myself to Japan which had just been rocked by earthquake/tsunami disaster. First and second night out, H slept on the couch in the living room. Then the pain really started to set in, and as it seemed so much worse being around him, I told him he needed to leave which he did. He stayed with his sister for a few days, then found an appt. to rent. He had been texting me, and calling, too, and I didn’t mind the attention. There was a lot of drama, and everything was very emotion-driven. We had some counseling. I felt a lot of things, but realized there was still love and a desire for restoration. So…he moved back in at my invitation. We were separated less than three weeks, and I told him I would ‘do this once.’ We continued to seek counsel from a variety of sources. At times it seemed like healing was really coming…and then, H would express doubt or I would get a weird feeling in my gut. We celebrated our 35th anniversary in August which was sad, and painful despite the money he’d spent on a great location and beautiful flowers. I didn’t get it.
      He went to a family wedding early in September which I couldn’t attend, and as he was making the return flights home, told me he thought maybe he should move out again. Naturally, I started to feel some panic. When I found later that month that he was again seeing (and sleeping with) the OW, I moved out the same day. Filed for divorce a few weeks after that.
      What would I have done differently? I’m not sure. I believed last fall that my taking him back after D-Day 1 was a good thing, because it helped me know I had done what I could. The one thing I knew I couldn’t do was share his love with someone else. Maybe I wanted to reunite too quickly. It was almost an obsession at the time, having him want me and be so engaged and passionate in a way he hadn’t probably ever been. I know I made life too easy for him all throughout the 40 years we were together, took responsibility he should have been carrying, made excuses for him and led him to believe I was strong and didn’t need him.

      • Roller coaster rider

        P.S. just asked my ex when he came out of the fog and decided he didn’t want a relationship with the OW. He said it was the day I left.

        • Jim

          Where is the like button???

          Roller coaster rider – This is what I hoped to hear. I think taking a stand like that works. That is why I think my wife still is talking to the OM because I had told her, it would be over. Well it is not and she basically is calling my bluff.

          The blow out we did have when I mentioned divorce was all out. She accused me of all sorts of stuff from never trusting her to giving up. Later on that day she was apologizing and trying to smooth things out.

          Now, I think it will take moving into the spare room or out of the house for her to take me seriously.

    • Disappointed

      My H moved out 4 days after D-day. When I confronted him he left after threatening me with the end of our business and that I would never see him again if I told her husband. She told him herself two days later. Within two weeks he had an apartment with a 6 month lease. He told me he plans to renew through the end of the year. He is the CS, but blames me for the EA and the state of our marriage when the EA started. One month of texting and no PA. As of last night, he says he no longer has in love feelings or “whatever they were” for her. He says he does not want to fall in love again as it is too painful. Even though we know we love each other, he says he cant come home because I won’t change. I think he is finally seeing the EA for what it was: fantasy, an escape. They thought everyone demanded perfection of them but did not reciprocate. I realized after the affair that my H needed to hear praise from me so I am complimenting him more. He told me all my compliments ring false and he doesnt believe me and that I killed that in him long ago. I will continue to say what I believe. We are in limbo and he refuses counseling. I have suggested going away together and he is less enthusiastic. Being separated has been good and bad. But given a choice I would have stayed together. He ran from my pain and still does little to help me. He prefers to treat the affair, probably an exit affair, as a postscript not the cause of him leaving. I think separations should be more structured than ours if that is the route you take.

    • Sam

      The first thing that came to my mind after Dday is that I wanted him GONE. I wanted him to pack up his things and get out of our house, get out of my life. My sister told me to hold off making any decisions until I was a little more calm. Afterall, my H was going to leave on a week-long trip (which had already been planned) just 6 days after Dday.

      I did make him sleep in the guest-room until he left for his trip. When he left, I was both angry and relieved. Yes, I wanted him gone! But at the same time, I was so pissed that he’d leave me to deal with the emotional devastation all on my own. In retrospect, I guess I’m glad he left because I was so emotional and confused that I don’t see how his presence would have made any difference.

      I think I cried for the entire week he was gone. I barely slept or ate. The kids were concerned, but I just said I was missing dad. (My daughter was about to leave for 6 weeks for a summer program, so I was also able to use that as a reason for my being so down.)

      The entire week I envisioned the end of my marriage. I began doing research for divorce lawyers. But during that week, my sister also gave me a book: “When Good People have Affairs.”

      Reading that book while my husband was away did help a little to see things more clearly. He called every night during that week and we had incredibley heartbreaking conversations. By the time he came back, I realized that despite everything, I’d really missed him. He felt the same way.

      Things were very rought, though. I think if kids hadn’t been involved, things might have gone differently. I might have packed up my things and left or asked him to leave.

      For the first few months I did contemplate a temporary separation, but again because of the kids (and not wanting to disrupt their lives) this really wasn’t an option.

      There were times when I was in so much pain that my husband couldn’t take it. He actually asked me “Do you want me to leave? Would you feel better?” My answer was always that I was going to be miserable with or without him, so it didn’t matter.

      As the months went by and he began making changes and efforts to help me regain trust, I felt that it was my anger and my inability to let go that was blocking us. I felt (and still do sometimes) so TOXIC. I’ve actually thought about going away for a week or so, just to get my head straight.

      (I did take a week off about a month after Dday and went to stay with a friend in the West Coast, but found no relief by being away.)

      I wonder if things would have gone differently if I’d asked him to leave and stay away. I wonder if it would have sped up the healing process or if it would have hindered it. I’m not sure.

      Sometimes I still think about taking some time off (maybe just a weekend or so) but overall, I feel that working together and sticking together is more productive to my marriage than staying away. My husband feels the same way. He says “I’m not going to leave you or let you go. I’m going to help you heal.”

      It feels nice to have that kind of support and just wish that I could always feels so appreciative. Having a good “day” really helps me to see everything in a more positive light. I just don’t know how to STAY HERE! I keep getting lost in really dark/angry states.

    • ChangedForever

      The timing of this post has come @ a time where i find myself at ‘the crossroads’ of seperation, seriously…but, my consideration to seperate, post affair, is for a reason other than what Doug lists in his article. My reason is due to extreme disrespect.
      I recall during MC visits which began 18 mths ago (3 days following DDay#1,) i would ask our MC during 1 on 1 sessions, ‘how i’d know when it was “time” to leave;’ in other words, ‘how do i know how much is too much, to put up with & to bear.’
      MC said ‘you & only you will know that.’ a BS knows the conflicts, kids’ needs, trying to save the marriage, work & all of the family responsibilities, & the false hope…So when? WHEN do you REALLY start to put yourself first? What holds me back, is that, in retrospect, my H putting himself 1st all these years, is what caused him to cross the lines with ALL of the OW he involved himself with…so i see putting MYSELF 1st in the extreme case of seperating, as also having negative affects. I’m struggling with this.
      My 16 year old daughter has also become extremely disrespectful towards me…i almost feel its because she sees me as weak, putting up with all of this pain…and possibly bacause, i stayed….i have to work thru this….alone. My H allows her disrespect, by allowing her to get away with the behavior, never allowing nor standing by me, to punish her actions & inactions. She follows his lead. Maybe i should have ‘punished’ him….by my leaving…? It all seems relative.
      NotOverIt, i, too, deal with the pangs of retrospect…i really should’ve left & i understand your dealings with the fear & anger. But it was never a good time.
      And Paula, what you wrote, “…staying in the place that makes you so unhappy is just asking for the unhappiness to follow you throughout life.” i really do relate to trying desperately to quit the pain but being unable to make the progressive. You see, ANY disrepect from the CS brings back all the extreme disrespect ‘done’ to me, the BS, its the ultimate trigger.

      • Anita

        ChangedForever,
        With your sixteen year old daughter, part of her disrespect
        is because she’s a teenager, however as she gets older
        she will return to her sweet self again.

    • I'm hurting, too

      I have been reading this blog regularly for over a year, now. I posted 2 or 3 times last summer but stopped because I wasn’t truly ready to begin sharing my story. I think I’m ready, now, but I can’t seem to find my previous posts. Can anyone tell me how I might be able to locate them?

      • Doug

        I’m hurting, too – I found your comments in this post: http://www.emotionalaffair.org/discussion-infidelity-trust-and-monogamy/

        • I'm hurting, too!

          Thank you, Doug, for locating my posts. I went back and re-read them and the comments that followed. It’s been more than 10 months since then and I can’t say that my life is any less complicated, now, than it was then. Although, I have gained a lot of insight from reading this blog. Unfortunately, facts are one thing…. feelings are quite another.

          • aida mahmud

            Forgo your anger for a moment and save yourself a hundred days of trouble.
            — Chinese proverb

            When anger rises, think of the consequences.
            — Confucius

            For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind.
            — Ralph Waldo Emerson

    • AngelWings

      In the 22 yrs we have been married I have always seen any type of separation as the beginning of something that would become permanent. Think it was just the way I was raised. That being said, my H and I decided to work through our issues. He has been very supported and has pretty much done everything right in trying to regain my trust back. I know that if we had separated we would have taken much longer to get to the point we are at. But, problem is now after 10 mths post Dday, he is the one who fears that I will leave him.It’s not an everyday issue, but at least once every two wks it comes up. I find myself having to reassure him that I won’t do that. Find it kind of unfair that I have to do the reassuring instead of him reassuring me of my fears caused by the EA. Doug did you ever feel like my H does at times? Anyone else have this issue? Figuring/hoping that with time and rebuilding trust all this will take care of itself.

      • Doug

        AngelWings, There have been times in the past where Linda has made comments or expressed her feelings that she “can’t do this anymore” and sure, that had me worried that perhaps she was thinking of leaving. I never really brought it up afterwards though and instead tried to notch my efforts up a bit to get her past those feelings. I think that what he feels is somewhat normal however, and you are right that through your rebuilding of trust it should take care of itself. I wouldn’t be afraid to tell him how you feel, if you haven’t already. If his mind is at ease perhaps he will put more focus on giving you what you need.

        • aida

          Doug,
          do you know that as an ex-CS, you are a blessing. maybe even an angel.

          haha.

          • Doug

            You’re funny, Aida 😉 I appreciate you saying that, though I’m certainly no angel!

            • aida

              doug,

              you are an angel in my opinion.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

              and right now, i’d suggest going with my opinion for whatever it is worth, because lately i’ve been thinking about suicide a lot.

              i know – it’s probably the devil talking and i’m working very hard to stave off my feelings of incoming depression. it’s very hard. sometimes i feel – last night i felt that it would be so easy to just go downstairs when everyone was asleep and to drink fabric softener until i had bubbles coming out of my mouth. i would perhaps vomit but i don’t think that anyone could hear anything. or i could drive a knife down my tummy and it would be fast. but somebody would have to clean up and my babies would lose their mommy.

              do you know why? because i thought and thought that he had really wanted to end it because he had hated me for so long. for many years. he told this bumbling incompetent counselor who had not even read the file before we came in – he told the counselor that his feelings for me had become like a cancer : kept growing for years (and not in a good way).

              and to make things worse, when i talked / messaged my sister about this, she told me that (a) he had no love for me whatsoever, (b) that the situation was irrepairable (beyond repair), and that (c) if he did not want to agree to an amicable divorce, i should fight my way out with a demand for a divorce.

              and when i replied that i felt bad about my own ‘weaknesses’ that led to this situation, she further scolded me and told me to get out.

              and last night, husband was late coming back – dropped off at his mother’s house first etc – and by that time children were ready for bed and I took the easy way out (chicken!) by going up to bed as well. i could escape seeing him – so i could escape his looks of disgust, his rejection, rejection, rejection.

              and as usual, this morning i felt guilty.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              somehow, it has become an immobile see-saw. He is ON TOP with his girlfriend, his high-paying job and his rationale ~ that he is a long-suffering husband who has EVERY RIGHT TO BEHAVE THE WAY THAT HE DOES, without forgiveness, without remorse, without any consideration – BECAUSE AS A WIFE, I SHOULD’VE KNOWN MY OWN ROLE and since I did not provide him the support he needed, he just has every right to do what he does, because Good GOD, he is already so very kind by paying for the family’s food and a roof over our head and the family has never needed for anything.

              and me at the bottom, completely at a loss and completely devastated. He always complained in the past that I didn’t do this – that the maid was taking care of the children, that i didn’t cook, that i didn’t do any housework and only focussed on the office work. That I disrespected him. So i taught myself to respect him – but of course there were times when i was angry and down = hence i was rather a pain to deal with at times. but other times, i was there taking care of kids, of home, his mom. I was there doug i was. honest to GOD, i was. and during that time things were already difficult. he used to kick a fuss when i had to work but he never TOLD me in my face : look i’m thinking that maybe this is NOT going to work for us because you would rather have your work and then i feel neglected. he used to toss a complaint or two my way – and then he would stop talking. he would convince himself – convince himself that i would never change and all the time i was trying to.

              doug I am very close to tears as i write this….i’m trying my best to remain close to GOD as i live through the next few weeks and I am terrified that I may do something that will harm me – and then they will take the kids away and they will put me in an institution. I’m scared and I am powerless. and what can people do? nothing. i still report to work = nobody has called in my husband for private counseling. nobody – not even the psychiatrist that i saw the other day replied my email. and every online ‘venting’ place now charges in USD – even this forum now. everything is measured, everyone wants to make money and the counselors at the religious department are bumbling idiots (well at least the one we met was).

              so what do i do? i still report for work. I talk to the kids, but that’s only going to manipulate their minds more. i talk to friends but they have their own capacity. and like husband said I’m an orphan and i don’t got anyone to turn to…..except GOD.

              i also got this forum – which has helped me so much in the past – thanks to doug, linda, rachel, and so many others. but now it looks like i’ll not have you guys anymore.

              please forgive me — i’m babbling.

              am i still suicidal? let me put it this way. I would not trust myself with a kitchen knife right now.

            • Doug

              Aida, I know that right now you are feeling about as low as you possibly can, but suicide is not the answer. Your husband is just being an ass and is shifting all the blame to you. Don’t believe him! Go and seek some help with a therapist. If you are already seeing one, call him/her immediately and set up an appointment or talk to him/her over the phone. Call a trusted friend or relative and have them come and stay with you. Do it now! You need to start to focus your energies on yourself and your kids. Take care!

            • aida

              Doug – did you see my post : i have no one. No one except GOD.

              and you guys.

              well, what i mean is that there are of course friends who are willing to talk but they are only able to take in so much in one time and besides I have been talking about the same story over and over again. and the fact that I keep it within a tight circle of trustworthy individuals – it means i can only depend on so many people in life. and right now half of the team – no, wait, almost everyone on the team is telling me to get out.

              On the other hand I think my husband is scared. he admitted it a couple of times. he told me that he was scared to trust me again because he didn’t know whether my ‘affectionate’ come-ons to him now are the truth or whether he is going to be neglected again.

              But you know, i dunno if i’m goring crazy or whether this is just more wool pulled over my eyes (and i think it is the latter) :

              yesterday he asked for my Tax File number and my National Identity Card number because he said he wanted to use it for the submission of his income tax documents by the end of this month. I do not recall him asking for the numbers before, and when i spoke to friends they said that it might be a positive indication of him considering me as ‘spouse’ – but it really makes me wonder. All these years we have been working = i don’t recall him needing my Tax number for his tax forms. well if he did use them before, he would sure have them right?

              and things like that stupid charger thing : why did i return the phone charger to him ~ is it soooooo untouchable? What’s up with that? Yeah, I returned all the stuff – well, most of the stuff he gave me – because he was lying. I don’t like liars. Boy he was really upset about that!

              and like he threw a fit when i told him “don’t make me touch your phone again” – when I found out that the phone contained pictures and texts of his relationship with the OW – and his response to that was an angry “Ok!!!!! Don’t touch my phone any more!!!!!!”.

              Doug, i want to appreciate him – but when i think of the time that I went to out of my way to buy him stuff for his recent trip to europe and during that time he had ALSO taken the girl shopping to buy stuff for the trip and so much so that he sent her pictures of him in the snow and none to me or my children. Doug what do you want me to do with a situation like this? i went to the officials, i wanted to give him a way out….. though I don’t want to….and he turned around and worried about what would happen to me? i mean, he hardly speaks to me and he refuses to sleep with me – treats me like i’m a piece of rotting property rather than as his wife and he is angry with me for not being more attentive to him? doug if you were me, what would you?

            • Jim

              Aida,

              Suicide may seem like answer but it is not. I may end the pain you are feeling but it inflicts pain on you friends and family. I have known people that have and you never can forget about them or feel sad for them.

              I have felt suicidal myself years ago after a semi hit me and I was in such physical pain. But I did not. I had too much to lose, And even though it may not seem like it it you have many reasons to keep on going on. Two reasons are your children. How would they feel? You are worth something to them! Would you want them to live through the pain that their mother killed herself? That is a lifelong pain just like your CS cause in you.

            • aida

              Hi Doug and Jim, and all friends :

              Good morning!

              How are you today? hope everyone is in good health and good spirits. there are a few things i wanted to share with you :

              (a) first of all, thank you Doug and Jim for so kindly replying to me about the suicidal impulses. strangely it seemed so easy to just go ahead and do it…..even though i am the one who talks about ALLAH and praying etc.

              I guess it was a moment of weakness when there was a gap between WHAT I BELIEVED and WHAT WAS HAPPENING AROUND ME at that time. I was completely thrown off balance to learn that he had such animosity towards me – that it had grown like a cancer. Maybe if didn’t kill myself that night…. i might have done SOMETHING that could have brought more harm than good…I was that depressed.

              UNTIL I REALISED THAT I STILL HAVE FRIENDS LIKE YOU GUYS.

              I said, doug, that you are an angel. that’s a christian concept – i guess – but your PROMPT message helped to pull me out of it…. You just saved my life – really – like an emergency medical technician. of course, due to the time difference between your part of the world and ours, i didn’t get your reply until later in the morning. so – what i did do was i got up, had a bath, took my abulation – and prayed. i prayed the obligatory night prayer which I had so conveniently not undertaken just a few hours before and then i prayed a special night time prayer – just a special one that pleases GOD (because you need to actually go to sleep first, then specifically wake up and go pray when the rest of the world is peacefully sleeping away….the fact that you forsake sleep to pray is what makes it special to GOD..) and i did that…. I kept my head down on that floor – prostrating to ALLAH and asking him to please help me, please help, please help.

              and the next morning, I get Doug’s email “Your husband is just being an ass….DON’T BELIEVE HIM”. and I read it again last night when i was lying next to him and he was on his iphone and i was on mine and he was listening to something on youtube (and there were messages coming into his phone —– sheeeeesh, doesn’t that girl ever sleep?) .

              and of course Jim’s support and message : the two beautiful reasons why i should not ever take my own life, i.e. my kids.

              (b) I also thought I should share this with you guys. though I don’t know if this is the best platform : however since we are talking about suicidal stuff, would it be ok if I just put in something?

              Another divinely-inspired moment, I guess : the story of laura munson, author of “This Is Not The Story You Think It Is… A Season Of Unlikely Happiness”. I guess everyone knows how her husband of 20 years was going thro’ a business meltdown, and told her he did not love her
              anymore, and thought that he never did.

              Okay so maybe it is not about an affair but what struck me most was laura’s refusal to be considered a victim, to be considered a failure, or a ‘reject’. she fought her own inner demons and remained composed in front of her husband and children. she refused to be ‘downgraded’. Maybe it was because of her own high self-confidence : as an aspiring writer, she was used to getting the rejection slip. But the fact that she refused to let her spirits be beaten down AND the fact that SHE BLATANTLY REFUSED TO ACCEPT BEING THE VICTIM : that struck a chord in me.

              she created an inner peace as much as she could although she ultimately did scream and rage out in open nature. she built a life for herself and the kids, and she told the husband that he could take time off from the family and ‘go figure out his own life (mess?)’.

              laura said she did the best she could with what she could control and left the rest that she could not.

              (c) I was thinking about my husband’s ‘inner demons’ – when he told the bumbling idiotic counselor “I was feeling neglected at home and then there was someone else outside who was willing to listen (pffft!!!!!) : THAT’S how it started”.

              and i thought to myself “yeah, that’s how it started, but it may not be how it ends”. and I pulled his hand so that i could put mine in it… he stiffened his arm but i kind of not let go — but you know that he would eventually pull it back and …..guess what, HE DID. but that’s ok.

              i told myself just like laura did – if he doesn’t come back, i would still think that this period is a personal success because of the strength i have found to guide me through. and because i found good friends here who would pull me through despite the time difference.

              and because I HAVE A GOD WHO LISTENS TO MY PRAYERS FOR HELP.

              INSYA-ALLAH.

            • Jim

              Aida,

              I am glad you are in a better frame of mind. Your eyes have opened not only about your husband but that you are worth something. That you have a reason to not only live but to get on with your own life.

              I has only been days since I found out about the OM that my W has the EA with. Your kind words have helped me. So thank you.

              Jim

    • aida

      guys.

      anyone who has ever heard me on the other pages would know that i can be a bit heavy on the ‘praying’ part.

      i read thro’ some of the posts and i can hear a lot of anguish and uncertainty – mine included.

      i just thot, maybe – maybe – some of us aren’t quite ready to really just go….maybe we still care about our CS.

      we still hope. but we are lost.

      so…..i dunno if this is going to work…but thought i’d share this with you… from eHow :

      Instructions

      1

      Pray for guidance from God to give you strength and wisdom through this time of trial. Pray that God will give you the knowledge and the wisdom to deal with the situation in an appropriate way, and that God will watch over you as you work through your troubles. Pray for your cheating spouse to receive guidance and wisdom in his/her situation.

      2

      Pray for the honesty of your cheating spouse. Pray that he/she can find the honesty within to come forward and ask for help for infidelity. Pray that God can instill within them an honor and commitment to your marriage.

      3

      Ask others to pray for you and your spouse. You don’t need to mention that they are cheating on you. Explain that you are going through a difficult time and that you hope the prayers from your friends, family, congregation members and community can help the two of you through this difficult time.

      4

      Talk to a spiritual leader such as a pastor or priest and ask him to pray for your marriage. A spiritual leader can provide you with advice, comfort and resources to make this time easier for you. Ask your spiritual leader to pray for your husband and pray that God can help him see that his ways are wrong.

      Read more: How to Pray for a Cheating Husband | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_8416401_pray-cheating-husband.html#ixzz1sLQ75VXq

    • aida

      A Sample Prayer for a Failing Marriage Due to Infidelity and Broken Vows

      “Oh God, Healer and Sustainer of all creation, our relationship is strained, almost to the breaking point. We need Your intervention, Your healing touch to restore us to health. Renew our faith in each other. Revive our love. Mend our torn relationship. Make that place where we used to be one, whole again.

      “We have allowed too much stuff to come between us, unwilling or unable to forgive and move on. Sometimes the stuff is just normal life, the daily events that pile up like laundry. Other times the stuff is more like trash that needs to be dumped. Give us courage to rid ourselves of rubbish. Reveal the unnecessary distractions that clutter our lives. Gently remind us to take time to practice togetherness.

      “We do not point our fingers at each other, we are both responsible for our current pain. Both of us are hurting. We need Your grace. Bathe us in the healing fountain of Your peace. Then bind up our wounded spirits. Provide the time we need for mending, for growing stronger. Reestablish our channels of communication. Refocus our vision so we see ourselves as You see us: one, in love and in You.

      “Gift us with patience for each other, with endurance for the journey and with hope for our future – together. Let our voices and our lives harmonize in praise to You.

      “In the name of the One Who gives us everything. Amen.”

      Read more at Suite101: A Prayer for Couples – After Vows are Broken: A Sample Christian Prayer to Save a Marriage That’s Breaking | Suite101.com http://mistieshaw.suite101.com/a-prayer-for-couples-after-vows-are-broken-a174475#ixzz1sLSf3EnV

    • monica

      Thanks Aida for the sample prayer. my husband and I have been separated sinse the first of December. On D day I told him it was her or me he chose her. I packed up left Alabama and moved to Utah. HE met this woman on an online gaming site. HE gave up our 22 year marriage for someone he has never met. They were going to meet up in february but she backed out at the last minute. she id also married with children and lives in a different state. When I first left we were not talking. he would never answer his phone or text me back. Now we talk a little bit about the children. I asked him if he is still talking to her and he said yes everyday. I realize we won’t be able to work on our marriage until the affair fog lifts. Iwonder every single day what she has that I don’t have?

      • aida

        Dear Monica,

        I feel for you…. seriously. I wonder the exact same thing : and you know what the biggest wall is that the spouse actually has the gall to actually believe that he is without any guilt. Do you feel that too?

        If your husband is still talking to the other woman, i would say that there is still a risk, and if it were me, i’d probably remain in Utah, or anywhere else if you feel like it. How about LA? or Florida? Where there’s excitement and dynamism?

        I wish that our Malay Muslim community would tolerate the ‘up-and-leave’ approach of the USA. we are more conservative over here because of ‘religious and cultural’ guidelines. this is a strong reminder of the fact that my husband can marry another one at any time if he so chooses. and me – coming from a more liberalised family background – feel like doing what you did : GET AWAY from him.

        I recently had the wind knocked out of my sail because he actually told this man whom we had just met that his feelings (animosity?) for me had gotten bigger and bigger over the years and when he found someone who was willing to listen to him, it became reason enough to have an affair.

        It’s almost funny. My husband is a CEO of a company dealing with international clients and he can make decisions that impact global trade. But now he is telling me that he can’t even deal with his own lack of integrity?

        I mean, it’s one thing that I have to deal with my own weaknesses and shortcomings but I have to also shoulder his? I didn’t give him attention? did he give to me, apart from telling me that I am fat, I am not a good cook, that I am not good in this and that? How many times has he led the family in congregational prayer? How many times has he spoken to the children about God and the Prophet and the good values in life (lucky he didn’t or else he’d be an even bigger hypocrite).

        Monica, my husband has his own good points like I am sure that yours has too. I have been trying to read up on how to be more affectionate but …hahaha it’s kind of hard to be affectionate when the other person is rejecting you.

        • monica

          Aida I am so sorry the pain you are going through. my husband has his good points too its just really hard to remember what they are just now. I am hoping he will come tohis senses. I pray everyday that god will help change his heart. At this point l don’t know if care if we get back together or not I just want god to save him somehow. Aida thanks for responding to my post. I am glad that I found this site it has a wealth of information that had tought me a lot. I pray for everyone on this site that they will find all the happiness in this world.

          • aida

            monica, i’m gonna give you this extract from Laura Munson’s book, ok? it may not be about an affair, but hope it gives you some strength.

            One fine June day, in the mountains of Montana, Laura Munson’s husband said to her, “I don’t love you any more. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.”
            What is the normal reaction to this kind of announcement? You can sob and wail and get down on your knees and beg. Alternatively, you can pick up the meat cleaver and, when the car skids off down the driveway, cut the crotch out of all his suits. But Munson did none of these things. She wasn’t going to let him get away with this. She said, “I don’t buy it.”

            She said, “Go trekking in Nepal. Build a yurt in the back meadow. Turn the garage studio into a man-cave. Get that drum set you’ve always wanted. Anything but hurting the children and me with a reckless move like the one you’re talking about.”
            Then she said again, “How can we have a responsible distance?”
            He said, “I don’t want distance. I want to move out.”

            Munson replies, “Well, then he can’t play victim. He has to be responsible for his own wellbeing. When you don’t engage in the drama, it bounces back to the person who flung it in the first place.”
            In her writing, Munson uses the analogy of a child having a tantrum. The child shouts that they hate you. Do you join in? Do you answer back? Of course you don’t. It’s their problem, not yours. You ignore the tantrum and walk away, even if the toddler’s teeth are still clamped around your arm.
            Effectively he went awol. He came home late, if at all. He wouldn’t call. When he was at home, he was distant, making zero eye contact except for occasional, discombobulating moments when he desired intimacy.
            And what did she do?
            “We live in such a beautiful part of the world and it was summertime, so the kids were out of school [Munson’s daughter was then 12 and her son eight] and there was a lot of being with them in nature. There was more writing, more getting on my horse. I did grounded stuff: cooking, gardening. I was incredibly calm. That was a summer of unlikely happiness. I don’t mean ‘blissed-out’ happiness, but sometimes happiness is just one little step outside of suffering. For me, that summer was a very calm, grounded time full of deep breathing.”
            But here there is a little pause, and she adds: “And inner tantrums. Believe me. When I was out alone in the woods, I was screaming at trees and crying and galloping my horse as fast as I could and diving into freezing mountain lakes.
            “Of course you think, ‘Is there another woman?’, ‘What sort of role model am I being?’, ‘How much longer can I put up with this?’ This is a man I love and is a great father… and suddenly he is being a completely different person. We all have these destructive thoughts in our head. In the book I name them ‘my evil twin sister Sheila’. I have no idea where I came up with that – probably a soap opera from the 80s.” Yet in front of her husband and children, Munson remained composed.
            If he had such little love for himself, she reasoned, this was not the time when he could love her. She held out, and in the meantime, she committed to end her suffering by simply stopping to want things her way. In the end her husband started coming back home, mowed the lawn, had dinners at the table and began to believe in himself (and his family) again.

            Have you heard of Jamar Rogers? him and his best friend Danny Gokey auditioned for American Idol a few years ago. Danny made it into the final dozen but he didn’t. All these years nobody heard of him making it big anywhere else, so I assumed he had written off his performing aspirations and settled down somewhere with an alternative career. Until, that is, when he auditioned again for The Voice 2 – when only one judge turned around his chair to select him – which didn’t break down his spirits since it was his idol CeeLo.

            Why is he such an inspiration? Because even though he failed several times and even hit rock bottom, he had the courage to come back trying, turning his pain into determination and after sharpening his craft. Although his friend Danny Gokey made it to no.3 in Idol whereas he failed. Basically, the lesson i’m taking away is this: sometimes you know when you don’t make it, and people tell you there could be even something greater in the future? Jamar must have heard it, and although he may not have believed it straight away, one day he had the strength to start doing so. As we Malays say, rezeki (or blessings) may not come now but later – and in an even bigger form than you ever dreamed of.

      • aida

        Monica, if you liked the sample prayer i gave the other time, and if prayer helps, may i share something with you? You don’t have to believe / practice it, but it is something that MUSLIMS are supposed to practice…..just for your info…..

        There is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to apply to ask for DIVINE HELP in making the right decisions : you pray, ask GOD to guide you and trust HIS decision after that. Somehow HE will give you the right way. I have done it twice since i found out and to be honest both times resulted in scary dreams (well, dreams are not REAL, so it can’t really be counted).

        anyways, maybe i shall start again and see where GOD will guide me : who knows?

        *“The Prophet said: ‘If one of you is deliberating over an act, he should pray and say:“O Allah, I consult YOU – as YOU are All-Knowing – If you know that this matter (…….state your case here ………) is good for me in my religion, my livelihood, and for my life in the Hereafter, then make it easy for me (to achieve).

        And if YOU know that this matter is not good for me in my religion, my livelihood and my life in the Hereafter, then keep it away from me and take me away from it and choose what is good for me wherever it is and please me with it.”

        After the prayer, a person must do what he is wholeheartedly inclined to do and feels good about doing and should not insist on doing what he had desired to do before making the istikharah.

        And if his feelings change, he should leave what he had intended to do, otherwise he is not completely leaving the choice to Allah, and would not be honest in seeking aid from Allah’s power and knowledge. Sincerity in seeking Allah’s choice, means that one should completely leave what he himself had desired or determined.”

        It is not necessary that you get a dream or even a “feeling.” Rather, the istikhara is a prayer that Allah guide you towards that which is best (khayr) for you. If you do the prayer of guidance (istikhara) with the proper manners, the most important of which is to truly consign the matter to Allah and suspend your own inclinations, then Allah will make events unfold in the direction that is the best for your worldly and next-worldly affairs.”

        (I know some of you are thinking “Bunkum!” – but well, what the heck, we all have major questions hanging over our heads right now, and well, GOD listens – so there must be something there.)

        another thing that i have been doing is to simply say “HELP me, GOD, please help me….. I don’t even know what I am supposed to ask for anymore, GOD, but whatever, it is I seek your guidance and your help, Oh GOD. I don’t know what else to do”.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        it works…. look, I asked for help and GOD sent me doug and jim. so it does work. prayer works.

    • Better

      When I first found out about H EA I didnt know the extent (details) of it. He stayed in our home but I made him sleep on the couch for a week.

      Then I figured out the lock on his phone and we had a HUGE fight (Im sure the whole neighborhood heard it)

      I went to work and while there I decided that I couldnt live or even be around him. The pain was overwhelming! So I texted him and told him he better get all his shit and leave before I came home from work. He begged and pleaded to at least continue to sleep on the couch. I has absoulutly NO sympathy for him…I told him “NO” many times. I even told him I would call the police..

      I couldnt stand the thought of being in the same house, with someone who is suppose to be my best friend, and who so deliberatly crushed my heart. I felt so violated! He had to go!

      He stayed with a family member for a couple of weeks. We started having date nights and gradually spending more time together, and talking. He would sleep at the house on date nights but go back to his family members house for the rest of the week.

      I really have to say that it was the best decision for myself. at that point I could have cared less about his feelings because he had no regard for mine.

      I think if I had let him stay he would have continued the EA a lot longer. There would have been no consiquences for his bad decisions. Throwing him out gave him a taste of what the rest of his life would be like if I was no longer part of it. He relised that that wasnt what he wanted so he began to change.

      It also gave me the opportunity to get my thoughts together without him being there. And lastly, I could cry all night without him being there to see me so weak.

      And if he didnt want to come back…I figured I would be fine! Im fighting for my happiness not his. Im glad he decided he wanted to be a part of my life because I do love him. But there was no way I would let him have his cake and eat it too…he already did that behind my back for a year and a half.
      PS-He knows that if I find out there has been anymore contact that I will not go thru this healing process again..he will be out for good. So because of the first time I kicked him out (and I was brutel about it) he knows for a fact I mean what I say.

      • reannine

        I’m in your exact situation right now. Thank you for sharing. I made my husband leave last night. Rough night but, like you, I got to cry without fear of him seeing me weak. Praying my marriage has an outcome like yours.

        • Blue

          reannine: How are you doing? I hope you end up having a good outcome too, but try not to have any expectations then you won’t be disappointed either way. Sometimes I wish I’d have asked my CH to leave when he was still being cocky and showed little empathy. He was so creepy it’s amazing I thought I still loved him. I hated being around him and hated being away from him. I felt like I was hanging on by a thread. But I refused to give up because I made a promise (for better or for worse) Also and I wanted my children to know that if we should split up, I did all that I could. It’s such a crappy place to be put in. Wishing everyone here future happiness.

    • Better

      I needed to also add that by my kicking him out and allowed our teenage daughters to see that my H’s actions of deciept were unaccaptable behavouir…And I hope that they will follow my example in their future relationships to not be a doormat to anyone, no matter how much you love them.

      Ps-Im not saying anything negative about those who didnt kick the CS out… Every situation is different…I commend those of you who did stay and fight, it takes a lot of courage and you must have been in tremendous pain.

    • SamIam

      I wanted to leave~ in the worst way, but with my injured knee I was not even able to walk without help (ever keeping me humble), more-or-less move out. I wanted him to leave and told him so but he begged to stay. He knows me well enough to know I never go back in life. I am a been-there-done-that-not doing-it-again person, so he feared that moving out was the beginning of the end to our marriage. He vowed to take all the anger I could sling at him (and he did). There are days when I still feel weak. I had always told him if he ever cheated the marriage was over and yet I am still married to him. All in all, I want to be married to him. He did get to see every tiny bit of the deepest pain I felt~ I did not hold back.
      If I had it to do all over again (Please God, never again) I would have separated for at least a month~ just to breath.. But it would have been a month with rules~ my rules!!

    • aida

      Browse > Home / Relationships / Top 10 Ways to Get Even
      Top 10 Ways to Get Even

      Written by: Catalogs.com Editorial Staff

      November 24, 2010
      Filed Under Relationships

      Tags: get even, revenge, ten, top

      Contributed by Cindi Pearce, Catalogs.com Info Guru

      Sometimes you just can’t help yourself and are compelled to get even, which might be a good idea. Or a bad one.

      Here are 10 options to consider before you take action, which may help you decide whether to strike or turn the other cheek:

      10. Forgive and forget

      Okay, that one didn’t work. However, don’t underestimate the power of forgiveness. As they said about Eleanor Roosevelt … “She got even in a way that was almost cruel. She forgave them.” Quote attributed to Ralph McGill.

      9. Hold a sale

      Lockergnome.com recommends that you place an ad in your local newspaper advertising a huge garage sale at your adversary’s address. Note in BOLD letters that the sale begins at 6 a.m. sharp on Saturday and describe in elaborate detail all the wonderful antiques and electronic items that can be had for practically nothing.

      8. Do nothing

      This might really be the way to seriously annoy a person, who anticipates that you are going to come after her, one way or another, and is preparing her counterattack well in advance. Keep her waiting. She’ll get nuts wondering when you are going to lower the boom. Not engaging, ignoring her, keeping out of the fray and/or taking the high road are certainly worth considering. As many quotes as there are about the sweetness of revenge there are even more quotes based on the utter futility of it. So let go, let God? Well, it’s something to consider.

      7. Voodoo

      Get creative and craft a voodoo doll. The target of your revenge doesn’t have to know about your sinister albeit pleasurable creation. Only you will know that you are nightly sticking her in the private parts with a razor sharp object as you growl, savoring sweet revenge. Furthermore, creating a replica of your target, devising a dreadfully ugly version of her (or him) can be extremely therapeutic. You can make the doll as fat as you wish. Toss in warts and a big nose. This may sound rather perverted but taking out revenge, privately and quietly (voodoo dolls do not yell back), may be far preferable than doing something that’s going to get you tossed into the hoosegow and facing vengeance-seeking remorse in the morning. Smile for your mug shot!

      6. Plant contraband

      Buy something embarrassing – the biggest adult sex toy you can find works well. Wrap it in tin foil. Hide it in the suitcase belonging to your adversary. As she goes through the x-ray machine at the airport, the tin foil will shield the contents, which requires that it be unwrapped and inspected by airport security.

      5. Stinkbomb

      Of course there’s always the limburger cheese under the front seat of a car on a very hot day option.

      4. Age well

      “You are not permitted to kill a woman who has injured you, but nothing forbids you to reflect that she is growing older every minute. You are avenged 1,440 times a day,” so said Ambrose Bierce. Don’t grow as old as quickly or as fat or wrinkled as she and hang onto your teeth. That’ll help soothe the pain.

      3. Stay cool-headed

      Keep your temper in check and do as Robert F. Kennedy recommended: Don’t get mad, get even. Remembering to keep yourself on the right side of the law at all times, causing no actual physical harm to anyone (mental harm, uh, well, okay, because it is payback time) or property damage, carefully plot your revenge. You have to be smarter, savvier and more patient than your adversary. Some might call it lying in wait, but don’t actually do that because that’s on the other side of the law and could get you in deep doo doo. Take your time. Your adversary will eventually slip up and open the door, one way or another, for you to make your move, whatever you choose that move to be. An opportunity will present itself, and you have to pay attention so you know exactly when to strike.

      2. Steal him/her back

      Steal him/her back. Resource: The movie “It’s Complicated,” starring Meryl Streep and Alec Baldwin. Baldwin leaves Meryl for a young hussy. Ten years later, Meryl is doing quite fine, thank you, on her own; Alec is somewhat miserable with his not-so-young but still a harridan trophy wife. He and Meryl get drunk and end up in bed. They have a covert affair. This time around, Meryl is the “other woman,” and is stealing her husband back from the woman who stole him the first time around. That is a pretty darned righteous way of getting even. The shoe is decidedly on the other foot now.

      1. Live well

      Living well is the best revenge. I wish I’d come with that on my own but credit goes to the Talmud.

      Alternatively, as Jean Baptiste Poquelin Moliere said: I will not leave you until I have seen you hanged. If your adversary is a total jerk, she, or he will probably hang themselves with no help from you. In other words, give them some rope; lots of it.

      “In the long run, every man will pay the penalty for his own misdeeds.” — Epictetus

    • aida

      HI, i was just thinking…..

      you know, i’m sure i’m gonna be feeling really bad past 1.30 p.m today like i always do and I’m gonna be almost dead at 6 p.m. when it’s time to go home.

      BUT

      at least for a few hours, allow me to brighten up someone else’s life : who knows maybe someone out there may feel a little better when you read my next posts. (doug, I’m back – well, temporarily —- but at least it’s something!!!!)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Save Marriage | 5 Things You Must Not Do!

      There are many great advices on the internet about what you should do in order to get your husband back but one can hardly find any information that warns you about what you should not do! Below are 5 things that you must avoid; otherwise your dreams about getting back together with your husband will be dashed.

      #1 Don’t – Not calling him at all after the break up

      Well, you must definitely not call so often that it becomes annoying but you should also not totally avoid calling him at all if you still want to get back together with your husband. It is acceptable to give your husband a call occasionally even though you have separated to show that you still have him in mind and are not having fun with someone else. Let your ex husband know that you still care.

      #2 Don’t – Look for other ‘fishes in the ocean’

      If you have intended to find other fishes and totally forget about your ‘old fish’, then by all means go ahead and pursue other gentlemen. If you still want to get your husband back, then don’t think you can make use of the chance now to have some fun first while at the same time try to get your husband back. He might not be able to forgive you if he finds out about it.

      #3 Don’t – Playing hard to get

      Sometimes you will get advice from friends or even books telling you to play hard to get but if you go overboard with this tactic, you might just lose him forever! Try to strike a balance between the two. Reach out to your ex husband and let him know that you would still want to be a part of his life but your frequency of calling him should indeed be scaled down. This is to prevent annoying him and driving him further away instead.

      #4 Don’t – Giving him the cold shoulder

      If you have been advised to give your ex husband the cold shoulder so as to let him realize your importance, stop it at once, unless you do not have any intention of getting back together with him! Send him an occasional email to stay in touch but restrict it to the casual messages only. This is not the time to overwhelm your ex husband with your lengthy love messages or love poems.

      #5 Don’t – Not remembering the important dates

      If you want to get your husband back, then start treating him like a king! This is especially important if you had not been a romantic wife before. Now is the time to keep the crucial dates in mind, such as his birthday, the day you had first met him, etc. Send him a gift or a text messages on that special day instead of pretending not to remember. It is a good chance for you to get your husband back if you can show the romantic side of you on these special days.

      If you are keen to get your husband back, it is vital that you avoid doing these 5 things besides planning on specific strategies to win him back. It will not happen overnight so you really have to be patient and persistent. If you show that you are sincere in wanting to get back together, his heart might soften one day.

    • aida

      Doug, Doug…..

      The depression and panic and fear came again…it sort of squeezed me into this hole and it made me feel like such a loser, that i was going to just lose my entire life, my husband and my marriage.

      The panic was just making things really scary.

      and the fact that i was re-reading websites on WHEN YOUR HUSBAND SAYS HE DOESN’T LOVE YOU ANYMORE….and i was all worked up.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      I told myself that the devil was working on me, and that it was too early in the night to start hallucinating. so i pulled myself together and switched to websites and youtube videos on FIGHTING NEGATIVITY WITH POSITIVITY.

      i realise it was panic and fear that created an opening for my husband’s depression last time….. he was deep into it and his spirit was perhaps not strong enough to fight depression and negativity…..and compounded by women throwing themselves at him…..so, why resist the temptation?

      it is hard but the strength of the mind and heart – is not located in brilliance – husband is an A-lister but he ‘kantoi’ (failed/was busted).

      i hope my message goes out to everyone on this forum. No matter how crazy and stupid our lives seem, i hope you never give up…… this is going to be the toughest fight of our lives.

      • Doug

        Great words of advice, Aida!

        • aida mahmud

          this dawn he rejected me again. then at lunch he insulted me again.

          i grieved again.

          someone told me we’re in a vicious cycle & need to stop it. i agree.

          the only thing is HOW?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          doug, you and linda once commented on ‘affair fogs’ and the fact that brains are scrambled during the fog.

          and the fact that when people are in the affair, they tend to find excuses to blame the faithful spouse.

          In this context, my view is that he is doing both. what do you think?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          There is no man who is wounded and yet pardons the person who wounded him but God will exalt his dignity and dimish his faults.

          That man is nearest to God, is those who pardons when he had in his power him to injure those who injured him.

          Do not say, that if the people do good to us, we will do good to them; and if the people oppress us, we will oppress them; but determine that if people do you good, you will do good to them; and if they oppress you, you will not oppress them.

        • aida

          Dear doug,

          i guess in looking back over the years, i should have gone with my instincts. i had doubts about marrying him, right from the start. we were always at loggerheads and he was always trying to shove ideas down my throat. nothing i did was ‘good’.

          he was a good provider though, he still is and he is a good father = but we have always had a strained relationship. pretty much coz i have always been a bit on the wild side, and by that i don’t mean drinking and clubbing. i mean a bit on the strong, impulsive and hardheaded type.

          that did not go down well with his stick-to-the-rules auditor type who would want detailed accounts of everything.

          i guess he held out as long as he could.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          his rationale has always been “you should know ….” “You should know what your responsibilities are, you should know how to cook, you should know that you were supposed to do that”.

          funny, he still said that to the bumbling idiot of a marriage counselor. he said that we had gone for the compulsory pre-marital course, we had been told by our parents what to expect in a marriage (mine didn’t) – and that we were supposed to know and he wanted to know if the ‘basis’ or ‘core’ would change if he ever gave this marriage a 2nd chance.

          you know, i was too tongue tied to say anything – prob coz of shock – at that juncture, and prob coz i didn’t want to end up screaming in horror like the couple in the next room.

          i could have said this :

          A Wife’s Basic Rights Regarding Her Husband’s Behavior

          NOTE: This is distinct from her other rights regarding living expenditures, housing, clothing, and education of children. And from Allah comes all success.

          1. The first and worthiest condition of marriage to be fulfilled by the husband is to “keep the promise or promises he made to the wife at the time he married her.” This is an order of the Prophet [salla Allahu `alayhi wa alihi wa sallam, abbr. (s)] according to the hadith: “ahaqqu al-shuruti an tufu bihi ma astahlaltum bihi min al-furuj”

          2. He cannot order her to do anything that is against religion. The Prophet (s) said: “No obedience is due to creatures in disobedience of the Creator” (la ta`atan li makhluqin fi ma`siyat al-khaliq).

          3. He must exercise patience and be prepared to listen to her advice in every situation. The Prophet (s) listened to the advice of his wives in matters ranging from the smallest to the greatest.

          4. If she invites him to wake up and perform the late night prayer, it is praiseworthy for him to do so and vice-versa. The Prophet (s) prayed for such people: “May Allah grant mercy to a man who gets up at night and prays, and wakes up his wife, and if she refuses, he sprinkles water in her face; may Allah grant mercy to a woman who gets up at night and prays, and wakes up her husband, and if he refuses, she sprinkles water in his face.”

          5. He must respect her and pay attention to her needs so that she will respect him and pay attention to his.

          6. He must control his passions and act in a moderate manner especially in the context of sexual intercourse. Remember that Allah has placed between you and her “friendship and mercy” (mawadda wa rahma), not the gratification of your every lust; and that the Prophet (s) advised young men to marry “because it casts down the gaze and walls up the genitals,” not in order to stimulate sexual passions. The husband should habitually seek refuge in Allah before approaching his wife and say: “O Allah, ward off the satan from us and ward him off from what you have bestowed upon us in the way of children” (allahumma jannibna al-shaytana wa jannibhu ma razaqtana). Allah has called each spouse a garment for the other (2:187), and the purpose of garments is decency. The Prophet (s) further said that he who marries for the sake of decency and modesty (`afaf), Allah has enjoined upon Himself to help him.

          7. He must never ever divulge the secrets of the household and those of the married couple.

          8. He must strive with sincerity to acquire her trust, and seek her welfare in all the actions that pertain to her.

          9. He must treat her generously at all times. The Prophet (s) said that the best gift or charity (sadaqa) is that spent on one’s wife.

          10. If she works outside the house, it is praiseworthy for the husband to hire house help to relieve her from too heavy a burden. The wife’s duties do not require her to feed her child, nor even to nurse it, nor to clean nor cook. It is the husband’s duty to provide a nursemaid, food for older children, and servants to clean and cook. However, if the wife does those things out of mercy and love, it is a gift to the husband on her part.

          11. He must avoid excessive jealousy and remember that Allah is also jealous that he himself not commit. The Prophet (s) said: “Do not be excessively jealous of your wife lest evil be hurled at her on your account” (la tukthir al-gheerata `ala ahlika fa turama bi al-su’i min ajlik) and he said: “Allah is jealous and the believer is jealous; and Allah’s jealousy is that the believer should not go to that which Allah has forbidden for him” (inna Allaha yagharu wa al- mu’minu yagharu wa gheerat Allahi in ya’tiya al-mu’minu ma harrama `alayhi).

          12. He must protect her honor and not place her in situations where it is compromised or belittled.

          13. He must exercise patience and forgiveness in the case of disagreement or dispute, and not rush to divorce. The declaration of divorce is a grave matter indeed, and the Prophet (s) said: “Of permitted matters the most loathesome before Allah is divorce” (abgh`ad al-halal `ind Allah al-talaq). In another hadith he said that divorce is so grave that because of it Allah’s throne is made to shake. He said: “The best intercession [i.e. intervention of a third party] is that which brings back together the husband and the wife.” Womanizing — divorce for the purpose of marrying another woman out of sexual attraction incurs Allah’s curse according to the hadith: “Allah’s curse is on the womanizing, divorcing man” (la`ana Allahu kulla dhawwaaqin mutallaaq). Finally, even in the midst of and after divorce, Allah has prescribed kindness upon the man: “(After pronouncing divorce) she must be retained in honor or released in kindness” (2:228).

          For the above-mentioned reason (i.e. to prevent the quickness of divorce), in his time, Ibn Taymiyya gave the ijtihad (juridical opinion) by saying that three talaqs in one sitting constituted only one. He did this to interdict the prevalent custom of suddenly giving three talaqs, which in his time was on everyone’s lips, (i.e. had become so commonplace as to be a habit). However the other four schools of fiqh had the opposite opinion in this matter.

          14. He must not dwell on what he dislikes in his wife, but on what he likes.

          15. The husband is not to stay away from his wife or keep his wife in a state of suspense, whether at home or abroad, for a protracted period of time except with her consent. Allah said: “Turn not away (from your wife) altogether, so as to leave her hanging. If you come to a friendly understanding and practice self-restraint, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Merciful” (4:129). Protracted separation (6 months or more in the Shafi`i school) without prior or subsequent arrangement with the wife, whether the husband is away willingly or unwillingly (for example due to war, imprisonment, or illness) is sufficient grounds for her to obtain divorce from the judge.

          16. The Prophet (s) said: “Do not beat your wife.” He also said: “Do not strike your wife in the face.” The expiation for striking one’s slave in the face is to set him or her free on the spot, but what expiation is there for striking one’s wife? The Prophet (s) condemned the man who beats his wife in the day and then approaches her at night. And to beat her to the extent of inflicting serious injury is enough grounds for her to obtain divorce from the judge.

          17. Caring for one’s wife’s sexual fulfillment is an obligation of religion. The Prophet (s) warned against rushing to gratify one’s pleasure and forgetting that of one’s wife. He also disliked that the husband should quickly withdraw from his wife afterwards, as it is a strain upon the wife. If she asks for intercourse, he should not refuse.

          • aida

            CONT’D

            he has provided hired help and helped care for the children.

            but i guess i should – to be fair, because i so dislike being unfair – tell you the duties of the wife :

            1. Obeying the Husband

            The sign of a righteous woman is that she obeys her husband in all matters that Islam has permitted to the best of her ability, Allah (SWT) said,

            “…the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands)…” 4:34

            The Messenger of Allah gave glad tidings to those righteous women that obey their husbands, he (SAW) said,

            “If the women offer prayers fives times a day, protect their honour and chastity and remain faithful to her husband, she may enter paradise by whatever gate she desires” reported in Taghreeb ul Tarheeb.

            Those wives who are rebellious and disobedient towards their husbands will not have their supplications answered, for Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “There are two types of person whose prayer will not rise above their heads; a slave who deserts his master until he returns back to his service and a woman who shows disobedience to her husband until she abstains from this behaviour” reported in Taghreeb ul Tarheeb.

            2. Showing Gratefulness to the Husband

            Displaying gratitude, appreciation and complementing the husband for his acts will generate respect and strengthen the loving bond for the husband towards his wife. However, those women that are ungrateful will be from those that are failures, as Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “Allah will not look at a woman who is not thankful to her husband despite the fact that she cannot get along without her husband” reported in Nisa’i

            3. Seeking Permission from the Husband

            Allah (SWT) bestowed the power of authority to the husband, and it is his role to provide for his wife, in return the wife must be obedient towards her husband. One of the ways in which obedience is administered is by seeking the permission of the husband when leaving the house (i.e. going out to visit family, friends, shopping etc.) or inviting someone to the house, Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “It is not lawful for a woman who believes in Allah to invite a man into her house whose visit is disapproved of by her husband, or that she should go out of her house without her husbands will, or that she should obey the will of someone else in opposition to her husbands wishes” reported in Taghreeb ul Tarheeb.

            4. Looking After the Wealth of The Husband

            The wife is the guardian over the wealth of her husband. She is responsible for it’s maintenance by not being wasteful and squandering his wealth/money; and each person will be accounted for each action they commit.

            5. Preserving Herself

            The righteous wife must guard her honour and chastity from any hands from touching her, eyes from looking at her and any ears from listening to her. Unlike in the West where the women have become public properties and free for all to touch and view, Islam ordains women to protect her honour.

            6. The Husbands Welfare Must Be Looked After

            Every righteous wife should be devoted towards pleasing her husband by displaying the best form of conduct by words and deeds. Even if she is in difficulty she should always ensure her husbands happiness and this is the path to the pleasure of Allah and admittance to paradise, Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “The women that dies in a state that her husband was entirely satisfied with her will certainly enter paradise”.

            Unfortunately, most women are not interested in achieving paradise and the good pleasure of Allah; rather many prioritise excelling in worldly adornments (i.e. Fashion accessories, make-up, houses and clothing etc).

            7. Fulfil the Husbands Needs

            Both the husband and wife have a right to having intimate relationship. The wife should maintain good relationship and fulfil her husband’s desires. The women should not give the evils of society a chance to corrupt her husband and turn towards sin, Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “When a man calls his wife to fulfil his urges and she declines and for this reason her husband remains angry with her all night, the angels send their curses upon the wife until dawn” reported in Bukhari.

            8. Look after the Husbands Children

            In Islam the mother is also known as the teacher, and it is her role to look after her husbands children and develop the Islamic identity in them, Muhammad (SAW) said,

            “…the wife is the guardian and is responsible for her husbands house and offspring” reported in
            Bukhari and Muslim.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            so basically we each have our roles – and basically i guess i failed to consider him my ‘lord and master’ and that has perhaps led to the situation in which we find ourselves.

            but it takes two to tango : and yet despite that i still feel guilty like it is entirely my fault that caused this marriage to break down.

            WHY do i think that way?

            HAHAHAHAH – because he said so. and because he doesn’t admit his faults == so it must be mine, or to take the simple way out like he told his girlfriend, that we have no ‘chemistry’.

            as if chemistry was the one that made me drive through heavy traffic today to pick up our boys from opposite ends of the town – because both finished their classes at the same time and it being Saturday, they can’t be picked up by the school bus. despite the fact that he was at home, (well he can’t drive coz he has glaucoma – but he can see well enough to text back his girlfriend in front of me).

            i was telling someone this morning, the fights we had since a few ago – most of it was because he had not given me any …. (well, you know)….and he had rejected me….and yet when i get angry / frustrated about things, it was like “What the hell you getting angry for, woman?” and i must admit i was stumped. i don’t deny i wasn’t the best wife, but is that any reason to behave that way? I could have been an even better wife if he had given me more affection these past few years. but like our maid said, “His love for you has died”.

            and our maid – maid, mind you – listened to me recount the story of the visit to the Officials and told me : “it seems that – when you went to visit the Officials – you were still trying to protect his good reputation and you were still trying to protect his good name. so the religious official assumed that it was only a small matter and told you to go home and play nice.

            “you didn’t tell the official how he has neglected to provide you the fulfillment and how he has always found fault with you….over everything…. for years…. . What he has done is a major offence – not a small one”.

            so now, not only does my husband think i messed up, our maid does too..!!!!!

            • aida

              Hey i just thought of something. when he returned home most nites before i found out – i would be at the computer, surfing the net or working.

              and he would pull a long face and i would ask him if he wanted a drink and he would say no and i would go back to the computer because i really didn’t know what else to say.

              i’m the sort who is uncomfortable with being ‘manja’ (that’s Malay for ‘gently playful, giving rise to the idea that you are gentle and need protection’.

              i’m more like ‘zeena princess warrior’ than the heroine of ‘you’ve got mail’ thing.

              and yet i have learnt to bow down to him but of course it is not enough…..

              yet i think we could have achieved more if he had done more.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              well anyways, there is always the theory of black magic because apparently three sources have indicated that there was the use of black magic by ‘unnamed sources’ to get him to hate me and love her instead….

              it sure would be a good explanation on why he is being an idiot – unless he really is already an idiot?

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              hey, aida’s back!

    • on the edge

      Thank you for this post. It has been 8 months since dday. My husband and I have been married for a bit over 11 years and dated for 5 years before that. We meet right out of high school and have been together ever since. We have 4 wonderful young kids and I am a stay at home mom to them. We both chose to have our large family very close together (4 kids in 4 1/2 years). My husband works night in a high stress job and works a side job 3-5 days a week in the afternoons to help cover everything. To say that our life is crazy and a bit stressful would be an understatement, but I always knew that it would only be like this for a short time and that my H and I would have many years together after the kids were grown. In August I discovered that my H was having an EA with a co-worker. Both he and the OW work nights and I had never heard of her, he had never mentioned her and I would never had had the oppportunity to meet her. I found out about the EA when he was on a yearly guys trip out of the country. We had a minor family emergency and he was not responding to my calls and texts so I went on line and check our phone records to see if calls were getting through to his phone. When I pulled up his records I saw a number of texts to a number that I did not recognize that he was making on his journey. I also noticed that it was the first number he contacted when he made it safely to his destination, mine was the second. My heart fell, I knew that something was wrong. I copied down the number and called it and was lead to the voice mail of a women I had never heard of. When my H finally returned my calls I got up the nerve to ask him about the texts and he responded that it was a male friend from work. I already knew better and questioned him further till he finally admitted that it was “just a friend” work who had contacted him on his trip to fill him in on some things that were happening while he was gone. I instucted him not to delete the texts as I wanted to see them (he admitted that he had planned on deleting them before he came home) and begged him not to contact her again while he was on his trip, specifically asking him not to try and trick me by using his friend’s phone on the trip. While he was gone we had many long talks with lots of tears and begging on my part and much denial on his part. I also told him that I would be calling the OW. I called her and she acted so innocent, saying that she never knew that he had not told me about her and that she belived that they were just friends. I foolishly believed her and began to focus my attention on my husband. When he returned home it all hit me as more and more details came out. It turns out that he had meet her 4 years prior and made the decision not to tell me about her as he knew that we both felt that friendships with people of the opposite sex that each other did not know as a freind as well were not proper. However, he said that as soon as he saw he he felt exactly the way he did the first time he saw me and had never had that feeling since he had meet me. He then made a point of going out of his way to see her at work even though the duties of the would never have required him to meet her face to face (she would have only been a voice over a dispatch radio). For 4 years he was infatuated with this women and kept up casual, secretive contact with her. Then when he recieved a promotion at work and no loger worked beside a partner he stepped up his contact with the OW. He gave he his phone number and she began calling him to meet her throughout his shift at work. This only went on for 4 months but it was very intense for my H. We admitted in the begining that he fell in love with her and they talked about being together. She purposly made her calls from a work line that only came up as a private number and never gave him her personal phone number. They also communicated through an inter-department computer system that is similiar to IM. I had noticed the long calls on the phone bill to a private number over night (I pay the bills) but many of my H’s co-workers have private numbers due to the nature of their work. I felt that something was off before finding out about the EA but when I would ask who he was talking to he would say no one and I would let it go. When I found out she immediatly told her H and began working on her marriage. I have spoken to her husband a couple of times and she seems to be genuinly remorseful to him and has had some not so nice things to say about my H. My H does not belive that she would say anything bad about him and thinks that either she is lying to her H or he is lying to me. Since all of this has come out hy H has said that he just wasnt me to be over it. He does not want to discuss any of it. He will angrily answer my questions but he has never brought up the subject, only once or twice has he apologized without an argument first. I am going crazy, I want him to say something, I want him express his feelings for me verbally, like he did for her. Before this I never asked him to communicate to me in this way. I always accepeted that he was not the type who opened up to others verbally, even though he knew that I longed to verbally communicate more. I wanted him to want to share his day with me and want to hear about mine. I knew that my day could be boring, as a say at home my, but it was my life and I wanted to share it with him. He would just get annoyed when I asked about his days, thinking I was being nosy, and very disinterested in my days with the kids. But he wanted to share what happened in his days, including our life at home with the OW and wanted to hear about her days, even though she mostly talked about her days with her kids. He viewed her as a wonderful mom, nut he only heard about the fun parts of her days with her kids, not the everyday struggles one has with small kids. I am just devastated that he gave her what I wanted from our relationship. The level of remorse that he expresses has been minimal. From the begining of this nightmare he would kiss me and hug me and tell me he loved mebut admitted that he did not know what that means and has been unwilling to try and figure it out. I have a hard time accepting as this was the exact way he treated me while he had the EA. I would never had asked for more from him until now. Now that I know he is capable of opening up more that is what I want be he refuses. And now he says that he doesn’t even know if he wants that marriage anymore anyway. He says that he needs more time to figure it out but he refuses to discuss everything and expects me to just sit around and act as if nothing is wrong and wait for him to make a decision. He says if I push the issue he will walk out and he knows that I do not want him to leave. I have given him my life and want the future that he had promised me. This is killing me. How do you just sit and wait? how long does one wait? I think I am going to lose it if he does not begin openeing up soon! Sorry so long!

      • aida mahmud

        Dear On the Edge,

        What i learnt from people is that you don’t need a guys who…

        1. Makes you feel like a piece of garbage
        2. Lies, deceives and manipulates you
        3. Can’t be faithful
        4. Doesn’t think you are amazing
        5. Can’t stop thinking about former or future relationships
        6. Is rude, disrespectful, and mean
        7. Requires you dismiss or ignore your personal standards, ethics, and sense of morality
        8. Embarrasses and humiliates you
        9. Uses you
        10. Abuses you!

        • roller coaster rider

          I so agree with what Aida Mahmud wrote above, and On the Edge, you need to start assessing what is best for you. Obviously with so many little ones and no job you would feel very dependent but your H needs to figure out what he’s doing here, what he wants, what kind of a person he really is. Keep reading the posts from this week and last as they are very important and truthful. If you settle now, you will not be able to heal, and your kids need you to be strong and confident in who you are. I will pray for you to find the wisdom you need. Don’t let him continue to manipulate you; you do not deserve that.

    • Anita

      On the Edge,
      First of all, stop walking on eggshells around him. Remind
      your husband that he’s a married man, and if he wants
      out then, he will be paying child support for the 4 little ones. If that doesn’t snap him back into reality then, let
      him live the reality of it.

      • aida

        Hey guys,

        check this out : this is a quote from a magazine article on my fave actress, Ms. Bullock, when she had cancelled her appearances in 2010 after he split from JJ.

        Get this quote, baybeh :

        “Whatever you do Sandra DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT blame yourself for Jesse’s cheating for one nanosecond! “Men don’t cheat because they want to have sex with someone sexier or prettier. They do it because they are threatened by someone who is outshining them and they pick women who are easily available,” says Amelia Parry, editor-in-chief of TheFrisky.com. ”

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        it makes me realise that for my case, my husband’s biggest issue is that he can’t get me to bow down to his requests all the time.

        he can’t be king of the hill all the time.

        so it doesn’t matter if i change for the positive because i have problems taking him as the KING.

        (THANK YOU GOD, NOW I UNDERSTAND that i’m too much of an independent spirit to be a follower! i’d never be comfortable being a follower and not in the driver’s seat….and hubby senses that. that is why….well, apart from his girlfriend going all manja on him even at 3a.m.)

        • Rachel

          Aida,

          THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! OMG! Finally you have helped me understand why he choose this particular women to have his E/A with. “They pick women who are easily available”. Now it makes sense!!!
          For the life of me I could not understand why he picked her. She is far from pretty!!! Yet, she frequently calls him. Or did?And when she did she of course mentioned how miserable she was in HER marriage!!! Just wondering what you guys think I shoud do? Should I email her and tell her to stop? He already did. But who knows if she still is???

          • aida

            rachel : darling, sweetheart : BREATHE. YOU ARE PANICKING. BREATHE. BREATHE.

            In my personal opinion when a wife gets tries to face off the OW, i personally think she is only acknowledging the OW’s role – that :

            (i) the woman scares the hell out of you : she will feel POWERFUL, threatening. It’s kind of twisted when you think about it, but a mistress feels fulfilled in some way when a wife confronts her. The moment you face her, she feels triumphant…” says a Sandra, a former mistress. “Never exhaust your energy on the mistress – you are only wasting it…” she continues.

            (ii) no matter what he has done, your husband has a control over you – even when he is a liar who would so very easily BETRAY AND CHEAT you without a 2nd thought…….

            (iii) when you confront the OW, you may think that your husband is on your side : to be honest, how would you know? it’s just going to prove to both of them that you are a crazed lunatic who is going to go off at any given moment. IF YOU ACT CRAZY, he and she will have a new joke to laugh at soon.

            (iv) rach, you want him to come crawling back to you , right? not for him to come to you under the pretense of being faithful but in truth – he is afraid of you and he doesn’t want you killing him or the OW.

            (v) if you attack the OW, what is it going to show about your dignity and class? honey, even if the husband and OW don’t tell anyone else, it is going to prove to others that you are desperate….. and that’s not the way you can go down.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            My suggestion? take the afternoon off, go with a friend to the mall and get your hair done. serious. get new clothes, and book yourself some outdoors time : either walking or cycling. then put fresh flowers in your home (and who cares if he doesn’t like fresh flowers).

            REBUILD AND REINSTATE YOUR PRESENCE AS THE WOMAN OF THE HOME, YOU ARE THE BEING THAT IS THE BOSS OF THAT HILL WHETHER HE LIKES IT OR NOT. BUT DO IT WITH SUCH DEFINITE FEMININE GRACE AND CHARM WITHOUT SHOOTING OFF ONE SINGLE DEMEANING WORD TO EITHER HIM OR HER. AND MAINTAIN THAT DIGNITY.

            because you see, rachel, i’m sold that no matter what they say, (that cheating husbands cheat because wives don’t show appreciation etc,), whatever reasons they give – the very fact that they betrayed you shows that they have no sense of right or wrong. they have no integrity.

            this may be taking the high road. but i learnt the hard way. my husband betrayed me, and told his OW that i was seeking divorce and SHE of all people told him to not go ahead with the divorce and HE told her “iT IS HARD BECAUSE OUR MARRIAGE HAS NO CHEMISTRY”. YET when we went for counseling he (a) blamed it all on me (b) was hesitant to proceed with the divorce.

            he seemed to be in a constant state of lying – he is practically going round and round in his own mind about what he wants to do.

            so, basically what i am doing is starting my own business and taking care of my current job. i am starting my own homemade exercise routine, and will eventually start my own blog about ‘homemade’ women and success.

            even if he leaves me, at least, i’m clear in my own mind that I AM WORTHY OF RESPECT AND ADMIRATION, even if it is not from him. i prove that i’m capable of making the best lemonade ever from the lemon he throws.

            HAH!

        • chiffchaff

          Aida – that quote is very interesting. Before his affair, and during, I was very successful in my home business as well as in my day job. My day job boss was constantly telling me how key I was to the organisation because she was worried my home business would become so successful I’d eventually leave my day job.
          At the same time as this was happening for me my H’s job was going down the toilet and he could do nothing about it except leave. He really didn’t want to leave because all of his ego was wrapped up in who he worked for more than the job he did. He stayed 3 years too long and the last year he was in the affair. He met the OW at a conference where he was asked to speak because no-one else wanted to go.
          That quote does sum up part of my suspicions, that my H was just very threatened and his affair was in a big part due to his feelings of inadequacy at work. When he finally got off his butt and got another job he thought he’d be able to ‘blackmail’ his work into asking him to stay but they didn’t, they wished him well and asked him when he was leaving.
          I can, honestly, appreciate that when your job has become everything to you, feeling unwanted and like a failure is devastating. In some ways I’m not surprised he took the instant fix of shagging a willing women when the opportunity arose. It must have made him feel better for a while.

          • aida

            dear chifffchaff and rachel :

            1. hahahahahahaha

            2. my husband is a very successful CEO of a company having risen through the ranks thro’ intelligence, skill and knowledge. he is extremely charismatic and highly likeable.

            3. i have a problem : he is too successful and too handsome and too charming that women have been throwing themselves all over him for years…..and somehow, they don’t care if it hurts others, as long as they get what they want.

            4. One Big Reason Why Married Men Have Affairs : By Shane M. M. Boyd : “Women often worry themselves sick wondering why married men have affairs or why men leave their wives.

            This short article will give you one big reason why married men have affairs and what you can do to prevent it from happening.

            What men want is to be ADMIRED by their partner.

            The truth is most men that have affairs are craving admiration and appreciation.

            You see, at home many men feel nagged. They rarely get told “job well done” or “thank you”. It’s simply, take out the trash, wash the car, fix the sink, cut the grass, go to the soccer game and on and on and on. Men rarely feel appreciated. You see, we’re not much different than you women in that regard. We want to feel appreciated just as much as you do.

            However, at the office, that same unappreciated husband is the hero.

            If a man doesn’t feel admired at home, it’s likely he’ll be easier prey for any woman that makes him feel respected and admired. When a woman makes her man feel admired she cloaks him in anti-tramp armor because most men would do just about anything to NOT to lose her admiration.

            There is one simple cure for the nonsense. Simply tell your husband thank you and how much you appreciate what he does around the home. If he’s the sole provider, tell him he’s doing a good job. Tell him he looks sexy when he’s cutting the grass, (he may just want to cut the grass everyday then!) We’re not even talking about sex here.

            If you tell your husband how much he’s appreciated, odds are he’ll reciprocate. You may just end up falling back in love all over again. Who knows? It’s worth a shot. If you tell your husband how great he is, trust me, the sex will just come and he’ll have no desire to cheat.

            However, if you feel strongly that your husband is having an affair or is about to have an affair then immediate action is needed. Married men flirting and married men cheating is equally as damaging to the marriage. Do some reading on affairs and married men so you can be prepared to confront him if the time arises. I hope it doesn’t, but it’s better to be prepared then blindsided.”

            Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3847058

      • aida

        anita and roller coaster rider, looking back i think on the edge has maybe a little bit of hope left? it can be hard to let go…

        i guess we need to have a grievance counselor. letting go can be a difficult decision. so, maybe people like me, and the edge —- we all just need time to get used to the shock of our spouses’ apparent hatred and anger against us and somehow we remain hopeful.

        This hope keeps us stuck in a situation we no longer have any control over.

    • jndimaria

      A month after D-day is when my husband and I decided to separate. When we were supposed to be working on the us, he was still continuing his emotional affair. We discussed separation prior to the decision, but when he said he was living a double life and can’t give me anymore – I made the decision to split and had him move out. It wasn’t what I wanted and I feel as if it was an emotion decision, but it seemed like he wanted it. After the emotional affair turned physical (days after the decision to split) he came crawling back, but was confused on what he wanted still. We stayed separated for 2 months and he moved back in after 3 months… I feel as if it wasn’t that long apart, but I also feel like we may have prolonged the time away by still going on dates during the time and getting intimate (heck, he was getting the milk without buying the cow!). He had slept with another woman during that time away and that was a huge shock to me especially since I was living the fantasy that we were still dating at the time. In hindsight I should have kept conversation going, but not allowing intimate conversations or contact. I feel like if I got angry instead of trying to be understanding about it, maybe I wouldn’t have been walked over and tossed back and forth so much. We’re on the road to recovery (he’s been back 6 months now) and it still seems like a beast.

    • aida

      On the edge,

      I know things are a little bit hard right now and it is so tempting to just up and leave.

      but i’m guessing you have some hope left.

      i don’t know if GOD will rescue our marriages – but even if mine goes down in ashes, i want you to know that we all care about you and we want you to be happy.

      GOD has not forgotten you….HE HASN’T.

      SO, i have here something for you : it is about going counter-intuitive. i know that our husbands do not respect us . but we are STRONGER than he thinks…with GOD, you will face this situation stronger than he imagines.

      So there are a few points i picked up – i don’t apply them because i seem to go with my ‘perceived intuition’ that husband is hungry so i must feed him, husband is lonely so i must accompany him. so far, there has not been very much progress though i think that GOD really is working for me.

      anyways, here is the key message ; IF KEEPING YOUR FOCUS ON HIM IS NOT WORKING, HENCE TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF HIM AND BE ALIVE AGAIN :

      Tip #1 – Be strong. No one desires the needy, and this saying applies quite well when it comes to broken up relationships. You really need to stop begging, clinging or revealing the behavior of anyone who is feeling desperate. Let your ex believe that you have moved on just fine without them by acting tough and moving on. When you’ve moved on, your ex will realize that they have not.

      Tip #2 – Minimize communication. Closing the doors of communication might look counter-intuitive when your main aim is to revitalize things, but it is one of the most important steps on how to get ex back. Take a breather from your ex, close off contact, and let him or her stew for a little while without any interaction. This will allow your ex to clear his or her thoughts and realize how important your relationship was.

      Tip #3 – Be flexible. Do not be forceful with your ex, demanding that they move out, or pick their things up by a certain date. Be practical, be a listener and a sympathizer. Your ex will be amazed when they see this side of you, and it may possibly encourage them to set up the lines of communication that were absent when the breakup occurred.

      Tip #4 – Get out and about! This is no time for you to be all alone. Call your buddies and get out of the house. Develop a social circle and delight in some enjoyment in your life. This might not mean you need to date, or even notice the opposite sex, yet you do need to be getting out and making the most of your time with your friends. Not only will this be beneficial for you, but it will also help assure your ex that they lost a gem.

      Tip #5 – Just be yourself. There was a really good reason for why you and your ex had a relationship to begin with, so go back to being yourself and let your ex recall why they loved you in the first place. This reborn self perception of your own self will definitely rub off on your ex as well.

    • chiffchaff

      I think it was almost 8 weeks ago now that I kicked my H out of the house (for telling me he would never be faithful to me, telling me he’d had another affair early in our marriage and that this was the reason he couldn’t change). I didn’t post on here during that time because I knew my H read this blog only to see what I was writing before having an argument.
      Looking back over that time, the first week he was gone I was so relieved, so angry, then so sad, then distraught, then so angry, then relieved. My friends and family, again, were just brilliant. I was so pleased to have taken control of the, as others have said, roller coaster ride, that his affair and aftermath was causing to our lives. We were in contact during that first few weeks he was away and he expressed such remorse and desire to be with me that I had NEVER heard in all the 8 months since Dday#1. So agreed he could come up for a weekend’s visit. That weekend was the loveliest time we’d had. BUT for some reason my H mentioned NOTHING about how he felt about me or even discussed wanting to come home. I was buggered if I was going to raise it. By then I was happier, more settled, fixed on being without him but as a result of his early remorse I had agreed not to file for divorce for a month. What seemed to happen was that when I did that he eased off the gas completely. He then started wibbling about whether or not he would contact the OW (despite saying he hadn’t when I kicked him out, and I had told him to get it over with and go to her if that’s what he wanted so much) again. I can’t write here what I then told him, it mainly began with F and then Off. He was shocked by that. This seemed to then get him to talk to someone, his sister, with a brain who managed to get him to see things more rationally.
      He contacted me saying he wanted to commit to making it work. I told him to get some counselling and we’d see, but in the meantime I didn’t want to hear from him at all or even see him.
      That time was really good. I was amazed that I found it easy not to contact him and enjoyed focusing on my life and doing my stuff again.
      After 3 weeks we went away mountaineering for a week. It was great. Fun. It felt like old days, good ones. I agreed after that week that he could come home to live. He’s seemed much more settled in the past 2 weeks. He even told me this week he felt happier than he’d done in a long time. I think I almost believe him.
      I’m also quite happy. I say that reservedly because I do not trust this feeling with my H. I do not trust him. He’s had 3 sessions of counselling. He’s mentioned nothing about it or even tried to discuss anything with me. I have asked how it’s going but I get very ‘it’s ok’ responses. The lack of trust meant I checked his wallet this morning to see if the cash he’d taken out for the last session had gone. It had.
      The ongoing trust issues are bad. I know it takes time. I’m trying to be patient but making sure I remember the lessons of our separation – focus on myself, my own happiness and stop worrying about what he’s thinking or doing and it’ll be better, at least for me.
      So, separation, at the moment, was the best thing I did. For me. For my marriage so far.

    • Amy

      Hello Doug,

      I wrote couple of days back in this forum about recent development in my situation. My husband and I have separated and living in different houses now(1 week). His affair started with a co-worker about 3 years back who is divorced and was working in his team. I decided to give him a second chance or many chances but he could not end his affair. We moved countries to give our marriage a chance but he always went back to her and did not maintain his no contact agreement. Strangely, he wanted to remain in the marriage and always declared that he does not want to be with her. I did all I could. I set boudandaries , asked him to be transparent which he agreed to but on and off he would be defensive and would break them and then apologise. It was like he was unwilling to give his towards the marriage . He confessed that he tries to change but does the same mistakes. So I am certain now that he has no motivation to change. He wants to have his cake and eat it too! I always told him to leave if he could not choose between me or her but he left that decision to me. Even staying in different countries did not stop the affair. He kept on lying to me that he was not in contact for past 1.5 years but it was a lie.

      Recently when I went out of town with my kids to see my family, he invited her and they had their mini honeymoon!. So I asked him to leave and made sure he left. We have a verbal agreement about the kids and he is supporting us financially till we are abroad. I don’t trust him though but cannot not do anything at this point in time. I wonder if I should take anything in writing or legalise the separation. Although we both don’t want a divorce at this point as we are staying abroad and not in our own country. Please do tell me what do you think of this situation.

      • Doug

        Hi Amy,
        I’m sorry that your husband has chosen to break his no contact agreement and continue his poor behavior. I’ve found that many CS will continue this type of behavior as long as they feel that they can get away with it. Right now there is no real motivation for him to change his behavior. More often than not, I see where the CS will not have that motivation until the pain resulting from demonstrating those behaviors is greater than the pleasure he/she is getting from the affair. Consequences in other words. A legal separation might be a consequence that could motivate your husband to change. You never know. So in addition to it just being a smart thing to do from a legal standpoint, it might help knock some sense into your husband as well. It’s important to seek advice from your attorney with respect to getting your financial, personal and family matters protected – just in case.

    • Tom

      I found out almost a month ago now that my wife had a physical affair with a coworker of hers. Thankfully, I had lots of sick time available from work, so was able to take time away and go out of town to be with supportive friends and family. I had initally told her that I would be gone for a month. 2.5 weeks later I was back, but we had agreed that she would move out of our house to her cousins place, as we both recognized that the everything was still very raw. I bave been home for about a week and a half now, and have been upand down on what to do next. I know I dont owe her anything, but I truly want to make this marriage work, or at least see if it can work. And she had said the other day that while she agrees the seperation is a good thing, she wants to start meeting once a week for coffee. At first I said I wasnt ready for that yet…but now im thinking that I would rather take this head on as opposed to just dragging it all out. Im not sure if i am making sound judgment by flipflopping all the time. I only want to move forward, with or without her. Preferably with her though…I suppose my thinking is that if thats what I want, even though she still sees him at work, and he still texts her..I dont want to distance myself too much. Am I making these steps too early? I think the seperation has been beneficial, but Im not sure if cutting all communication is the best idea anymore…any suggestions?

    • Ian

      Hi need a bit of advice I recently found out my wife had an affair over the summer last year. It wasn’t her that told me it was her lovers partner.
      At this point the affair was over.
      She admitted to having feelings for him.
      And know she has moved out and gone to stay at her mums house.
      She says she wants to make our marriage work but needs some space to clear her head.
      I have forgiven her for what she has done and want us to work too but I can’t get over the fact that the affair ended because her lover wanted it to end to save his relationship and not the other way round.
      Do you think our marriage can be saved and should I believe my wife in what she is saying about saving our marriage
      Thanks

      • Strengthrequired

        Ian, I’m glad for you that your cw affair is over, yet in saying that I also feel for you because you found out by someone else. Doesn’t feel very good does it.? I do think if you want you marriage to work, you need to give your wife and your marriage a chance. Especially if that is what you both want. It isn’t going to be easy, yet thankfully the affair partner is out of the picture, it is s much harder when the contact is still going on. I do hoe all works out for you both.

      • Doormat

        Imo your marriage does have a chance at this point, but I emphasize CHANCE. She has a lot to do to prove to you that she is worth sticking around for. Personally, I would demand transparency and accountability, and communicate to her that she has severely broken your trust, if she objects you may have something to worry about (those who hide nothing have nothing to hide) and marital therapy (look for EFT, Gottman, or Imago therapists). Use this time apart to clear your head and empower yourself. Book an appointment with a therapist, go out with friends, do things that make you happy, get comfortable with the idea of being without her (I know this part is extremely hard but it comes more easily with self confidence and empowerment), this will make you look more attractive to her. Look up some resources about affair recovery (I recommend “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass and “5 languages of love” to figure out her languages and how you may not have been speaking them) decide what YOU need when she comes back and share these things with her. Also try to figure out any areas where your marriage may have failed, ask her what she thinks. BSs I think go through a fog themselves where they see the marriage as perfect and happy when that may not have really been the case and CSs may come up with nonsense to justify their affair but within there are usually at least nuggets of truth. Show her that you are willing to listen to her concerns and change things but also that you’re not afraid to live without her and can be perfectly happy on your own. Take your part but not all the blame for the problems in your marriage and commit to working on them, they are 50/50 usually and she needs to recognize hers and do the same, and DO NOT take the blame for the affair because that was her choice. I made a lot of mistakes on DDay 1, don’t make those same mistakes: I took all the blame for the A, I cried and begged and pleaded for her not to leave, I showered her with affection and gifts and flowers and poetry, I did not demand she stop seeing OM, I approached OM with my concerns (we were “friends” at the time) which only validated him and encouraged him to pursue her more earnestly, I let her convince me they were just friends and should continue to hang out, I did not have any self respect and as such became a doormat for many months.
        Also do not let your guard down and start trusting too soon. The space thing is iffy, she may genuinely just need some time to think and clear her head especially if you guys have been fighting, but in many cases “space” means time to see OM. They may still be contacting in secret. When she comes back be on high alert without crowding her too much, she needs to be accountable and do the heavy lifting to earn your trust back. If she is not willing to do these things then she may still be contacting OM. Explain to her that you love her and want things to work but you do not trust her right now and you do not owe her your trust. Start communicating in a healthy way, this can help deepen a connection between you two especially if communication was weak leading up to this. Above all realize that you are a great individual who deserves a wife that loves you and only you. If there is a DDay 2, don’t be affraid to walk. I agree that marriages can survive and thrive after infidelity under the right circumstances but if those are not met, then walking should be considered. Living in a trustless, loveless shell of a marriage is no way to live.

    • Rina

      I have been going back and forth between states taking care of an elderly family member, dealing with four chronic diseases and dealing with our child who has behavioral issues. H had an affair in 2011. He came home and it’s a hickey on his neck and told me Christmas 2011. I demanded he endbit but of course he kept lying. In Feb, he said he was ready to reconcile. That was false as well (i found out 9 months later from ow that he was sneaking off to sleep with ow in the car in a parking lot while I was there-I had taken the train in to see him as I didn’t drive then and he had set up our house on an army base). By the fall he finally consented for my daughter and I to move with him and we came down. Life did not get much better. He deployed the following year.who knows if there were more affairs or not-I suspect there are a lot more than the two he’s admitted to. The year he came back from deployment, we had drama with animal issues (too many and 12 cats that he began hiding and playing games with out of frustration) and soon after we had a domestic where he hit me and choked me (then said he didn’t) then ran to go cut himself and called the military police and said I cut him. I still stayed and tried to work things out but I kept making comments and found it difficult to be intimate with him. He in turn did not do what he needed to do to make me feel secure after the affair. Shortly thereafter he left active duty for reserves and we bought a house (at his insistence). My mother died 8 months later and I began going back and forth to be with my father. Fast forward to last month when I drove down here and found out he’s been with someone since January, she’s been in my house, in my bed and he has a racist roommate. So he wanted me to pack all my things and leave which I did-everything is in a pod. And he’s booted me from the home. He’s showering this person with gifts and attention and keeps dangling the carrot of reconciliation while saying things like “I’m not yours,” “I don’t want you,” “There is nothing for you here.” But then says he doesn’t know if he’s in live or not. He’s even sharing my messages and things I write with her. I am sick and he doesn’t want to be my caretaker. He says I’m fat (not really-I used to be), saggy with no drive/ambition or motivation. He claims I snatched him up and stole his innocence and took his happiness. He keeps demanding a separation letter and to know when I will return to where I was. I refuse to write or sign any separation letters. I feel lost and without hope.

    • hurtingheart

      Hi everyone, please help me sort out my brain. Two days ago I discovered my husband’s X-rated WhatsApp conversation on his phone with an old fling of his from before we met. This conversation occurred 3 months ago. I know going through phones is an invasion of privacy, but I do it every 6 months or so because last year we went through many ups and downs about other things. Regardless of why I did it, I found him sexting – inviting another woman to come over for sex in our house while our son was asleep in the next room, for ‘one last night together’. I just so happened to be out of the country on business at that time. I confronted him about it and he was completely devastated and remorseful saying he doesn’t want to lose me. He said the day after that conversation he deleted her off of all of his social media and blocked her and hasn’t spoken to her since and she doesn’t even live in town. He said he did it because she contacted him and brought up ‘the good old days’ and he was home alone and drunk and ate up the compliments, and then it went sexual, but he immediately felt guilty. He wanted to tell me, but knew my stance was – if you cheat, I’m out. He swears nothing physical happened, it was strictly sexting. I called her to compare notes – she lied to me even about the conversation (probably because she has a fiancé and a 2 year old). I’ll never truly know, though I’d like to believe my husband of 4 years — we have been together 7 years total and have a 2 year old together. I am so hurt and now contemplating a separation to have space and gain perspective. Last year our ups and downs were so hard on me emotionally I developed an ulcer from it. This year I thought things were so much better and I felt much more stable in our relationship that I even told H I’m finally ready for another baby – and then I find this out. I feel if last year wasn’t so bad, and this was the first issue in our marriage then I would be 100% wanting to work on things. But I can’t help but think – should a marriage be this hard on me? We were supposed to go away this weekend, but I told H to take our son and go without me. I need the long weekend to think, and will speak to him once he is home.

      • Lili

        I discovered my 10 years old partner have had a long term affair few years ago, the affair stopped 2 years ago and I gave him another chance. Mistake, one that a year latter and I discover inappropriate messages to one of his ‘friends’ this time I asked him to leave the flat, I asked for 3 consecutive days, until he left. Best decision ever.

        If you find they cheat on you is the cheating part the one that has to leave.

        It is been 6 weeks, he had apologised, I have been angry, he is on therapy, living with his parents and now I’m dating a guy in similar situation, I feel much better and in control of my life. I have had time to deal with my emotions, to have my space at home, to do what I want and to take care of myself.

        I don’t have plans to go back with my ex-partner. His still in denial and thinking we are going to move back together.
        I’m in the process of falling OUT of love of him and this is happening quickly. I’m heartbroken but on a path for recovery and wanting a new start.

    • Kalpana

      I had a 6 year old affair with a guy – AFTER TAKING PERMISSION from my husband. So I did not cheat on him exactly. Yes, I did ask him for a divorce 7 years ago but he refused. So we both agreed to be living together and leading our lives this way.

      Now, regarding my AP, he is married for 15 years. But his wife left him (8 years ago) and has been staying at her parents along with her 13 year old son. The reason why she left was that he was irresponsible, earns little, and lives in a joint family along with his parents. She knew this arrangement before marriage but later couldn’t adjust in a joint family. He didnot want to move out so she left him expecting him to come back to her. He did not and waited for her to return. But they kept meeting once in a while during these 8 years. He doesnt believe in divorce (family reputation) so he kept begging her to return home. But she refused. He even went and tried to live in her house with her parents but it didnot work so he came back to his home and now lives with his very old mom.

      Now from the last 2 years His wife banned him from meeting his son. The boy cries for dad and dad misses him a lot but she doesnt want them to meet as she first wants this man to come and live with her with her parents. But he cant leave his old mom who is sick all alone.

      He didnot want to take any legal action to get the visitation rights of his son – may be he was scared that it would annoy his wife and may he waited for a day when she would change her mind and come back to him. But in spite of his sincere efforts, she never came back to his home.

      4 years after she left his home, I met him and we had become friends first and then started to share personal issues we had and got into this affair. Now, he always told me that he wanted her to be home because he wanted his kid. He never lied to me on that. But he said he doesnt love her as she left him with her son and made him a laughing stock among all his relatives. In these 6 years, I DAILY kept asking him ( much to his irritation) if he wanted to build his family again and in that case, I would never ever continue this affair. He ALWAYS told me that he doesnt love her and he wants only his son so he HAD to be nice to her. He told me that he gave up all hopes of being with her. I trusted him but always checked ( DAILY!!!!!) if he still wants her. I never wanted to break his home but he kept assuring me that it was already broken.

      Suddenly, I came to know 20 days ago ( read his chat) that he has been continuously begging her to return home, planning their anniversary day and even planning to shift to her home. ALL THIS WHILE SLEEPING WITH ME AND kept denying when I asked him if he wants her back. I spent all 6 years actually checking if he wants her back and if Im coming in between them. HE ALWAYS SAID NO. But when I read all chats he exchanged,I was totally heart broken. In spite of me asking him daily if he wanted her, he denied it and lied to me that he was not even talking to her.

      I was devastated and shocked. Why the hell he was with me when he wanted her back so badly? I never begged him to stay with me. I would have walked out immediately if I had known this. But after 6 years into this relationship, this has a been a big shcok to me. I confronted him and he said he doesnot know why he did. He said it was for his son he was in touch with her and he doesnt love her. But why lie to me???? I never asked him to marry me or even stay with me. I simply asked him to be open in his feelings and if he had feelings for her, I would leave. Now he says that he just lied because he was afraid that I will leave him and he wasn’t sure that she would ever really come back him. Shocking! That means had she come back to him, he would have dumped me or still been with me? I would never agree to the latter.

      But from his chats I also saw that they both were not meeting in person for the past 2 years though they live 10 km away from each other. They were only talking on whatsapp, not even phone calls. But still, he was asking her to return to him. If he loved his wife and she loved him back, why were they not even meeting each other for 2 years and why correspond only through messages? But then why was he making plans for his anniversary? When asked he said, he had to maintain that correspondence with her so that he can hope to get access to their son. She denied all his advances, cancelled all his anniversary plans … from the chat, I understood that She wasn’t interested in even meeting him.

      Now one of our common friends hacked into his account and send all our pics and emails to his wife. She was mad, angry and threatened to give him a divorce. But he refused. They still talk only phone and he is still not confessing to the affair completely. I dont understand how she is concerned about what he does in his life when she walked out of this marriage 8 years ago. How can someone who loves husband can stay away for so long and deny access to the dad, his son for 2 years??????

      How can they reconcile if they are not even meeting and he is not totally confessing to the affair ( he said it was a one year old affair but all emails we exchanged disclose the truth anyway) .She told all her family, her sisters, BIL, parents about this affair and whole family is mad at him. But he is still trying to fool her saying that someone edited the emails and he is innocent. I m not sure if she trusts him.

      He is still in touch with me, calling me once a week but told me that we should not meet for at least 6 months to one year. I begged him give me a closure and tell me that he did not fake all 6 years and let me go but he says nothing. But then he calls me once in a while and says that he is all this to de-addcit me from him and slowly he will disconnect. Im so confused and hurting like hell. Does he want to come back or no? Why is he trying to de-addict me? Or he is calling me to check if im moving on? Does he want me to actually move on? And suddenly he even asks me if I can join him in January to Australian Open? Iam so confused. Does he not want to make his marriage work? But then he is not even talking to me properly. Im so angry that he says he wants to save his reputation among his family and friends and is not ready for a divorce. He know his wife would never live with him again , anyway she wasnt living but he wants me to ‘stay low-profile’.. Im not able to stay or get away from this relationship.

      I invested a lot into this relationship, I have lived like a wife to this man, I cooked, cleaned, took care of him when he sick, spent a lot of money and really really loved him, encouraged him at every stage of his life. Its not just sex but I have been such a support for him at every stage for all these 6years. he hardly spent any money on me, I was the one who invested even monetarily and I never cared about it. He did spend a lot of time with me, he and I had so much fun discussing things and having fun, sharing pain.

      Now I feel that I should make him come back to me and then pretend to be nice with him and dump him exactly the way he did to me by telling all lies and two-timing him. I would be happy if you can advice me how to give it back to this man.
      revenge may not be the solution, it may be the worst solution, could be a total waste of time, but still, that is the only way I get the closure which this man is not providing me for loving him and taking care of him like a wife for 6 years of my life.
      I want to pretend to be the way I was till last month and then dump him suddenly when he least expects it after giving a big lecture about how much I love him but cant hurt my family.
      I want him to know the pain even if its temporary for him, I want to give it back.
      Now that he still contacts me on his own is giving me a hope that I can do it.
      But how to do it am not able to understand.How can I do that? Only then I can get move on in my life. Please advice me.

    • Lynn

      My husband of 38 years married met and had a Emotional affair He kept saying there Just friends but he spent more time with her then with me and our family She call he went ,I and my children figured out she was a user unsure if she ever cared about husband But for these Just friends friends he spent a weekend with her and as doing so when he told me about it cause he was feeling guilty he had to ease his conscience he said he lied to me and cheated , he felt better I was hurt beyond words , so much pain , a lot of crying hadn’t decided what to do He wasn’t giving her up , so I tried to ignore him Started Trying to think about myself , Was doing pretty good until he till me he had feeling for her I then told him I wanted a separation Which was fine with him at the time , He wants to do whatever he wants with who he wants and not report back to me, separated we are the only thing is that we have to live in our home we own together for financial reasons We have our own bedrooms. We do are own things , it’s sort of like tow friends living together , I’m putting myself first, taking care of my needs , seeing what I can do with out him Husband has just informed me it’s not going to work out with OW So he thinks he can just start back up with me , That’s not happening He replace me with her , I’m not a second choice or just a opinion Separation has been a good thing at least for me Since it’s not benefiting him anymore , he doesn’t want it We will see how it goes , Once I get on my feet and am stronger hopefully I’ll move on Thanks

    • Deb

      Husband cheats tells me his wife , continued to see OW as I tried to recover , having a very hard time recovering, trying to salvage something from marriage, Seperatration were trying between the two of us , But it’s in husband favor He had a affair is still having one but now he thinks he can do what he wants , He doesn’t tell me anything His one thing was to do what he wants with who he wants without telling me Well he’s doing it , I’m so confused, still in pain , still cry , Hes off living his life But my life has stopped , I guess I’m depressed , Don’t know what to do Try to talk to him , but he says he doesn’t have to listen, We have to live together still in our family home because of financial reasons , so it’s double hard , we have are own bedrooms , which I stay in there a lot But it’s like he got what he wanted he has a family but can do what he wants and hang out with who ever . He works , I don’t , he’s the one with the money The seperation is a trial one between the two of us , It’s not really real I thought we were going to fix our marriage , But he is leaving it , How do I get past all the hurt and pain , get my self esteem back my worth , get stronger I feel so weak , not wanting to do much of anything , Taking baby steps

      • Shifting Impressions

        Deb
        Perhaps you could get some legal counsel and some personal counseling to help you navigate this situation. The money belongs to you as well….you have legal rights!! Are you home with children??

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