Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #16

microphoneIt’s hard to believe that another month has flown by.  So…It’s that time again to talk about whatever you want to talk about!

This is Open Mic #16 and we hope that there are some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about or share your experiences with everyone.

Valentine’s Day is coming up this weekend and that can be a tough day for many of you.  Perhaps you can share your thoughts and feelings about that day and how you plan to approach it.

Otherwise, the floor is all yours!  

Feel free to discuss…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small.
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.


Linda & Doug


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85 Responses to Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #16

  1. Doug February 10, 2015 at 9:43 am #

    I was watching the news last night and they had a piece about “Mistress Day,” which until last night I must admit I was not familiar with. Apparently, Mistress Day is the day before Valentine’s Day and is typically reserved for cheaters to wine and dine their affair partners.

    The reporter on the piece also said it is the busiest day of the year for many private detectives and is the best day to catch a cheater in the act.

    Somewhat related…If an ongoing affair is an issue for any of you, we did a post a few years back about affair signs, which might be beneficial. You can read it here:

    • exercisegrace February 10, 2015 at 2:22 pm #

      I saw that too. And I laughed. They are still sitting at home on the “big day”, regardless. I will never, ever understand what it takes to allow yourself to be put in such a lowly position.

    • betrayedchump February 13, 2015 at 12:10 pm #

      Well then my wish for all the CHEATERS out there for February 13th is HAPPY VD/STD DAY to/for all of them! Peace!

      • TryingHard February 13, 2015 at 12:19 pm #

        bwahahahah—I agree Betrayedchump!!! Here’s to hoping it rots off!

      • Doug February 13, 2015 at 1:20 pm #

        LOL! Good one, BC!

      • Strengthrequired February 13, 2015 at 5:54 pm #

        Bc, Iol, the only problem with that is, they bring it home to the unsuspecting spouse…

  2. Doug February 10, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    Just thought of this…also happening on Feb 13 is the opening of “50 Shades of Grey”. Any of you going to flock to the theater to check it out?

    • Untold February 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm #

      I will not be going to see 50 shades movie. It was an obsession of my wife’s and her friends leading into/during the affair period. Hard to say for fact, but easy to argue that it contributed to the fantasy and weakening of boundaries. One reputable affair counselor called it slut accelerant!

      • betrayedchump February 13, 2015 at 4:20 pm #

        I feel the same way, as my x was getting into the 50 Shades of Grey Deception series of erotic porn books (recommended reading to her by her EA Married Man) the fantasy exploded, the justification for crossing of boundaries (starting & continueing her EA) was right there in black & white! I have no scientific evidence as proof of any of this because as she told me “I did nothing wrong, I have morals, we didn’t have sex.” WTF????,Peace!

        • TryingHard February 13, 2015 at 4:30 pm #

          Betrayed Chump

          Oh Boy!!! Don’t you just love the rationalizations.

          Hey I have an idea. We could all write a book, and what a doozy it would be, and call is 50 Shades of Crazy!!!!!

          Peace out to you too. Hope you’re having a very happy VD/STD day! LOL still laughing

  3. lin February 10, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

    well, I will start off. I have been following this blog for a long time but rarely comment. My husband has been having a long-term affair with a co-worker 24 years younger than him. He is in a position of authority. 6 months ago I asked him to move out when I found him continuing to lie and cheat . We’ve been married 32 years with 3 wonderful grown children. He has been living in a hotel. I have suspected ongoing cheating but he has stated he was honoring our separation agreement of no contact. He recently brought up the idea of moving back home. Ititially, I was excited to think that maybe we could have a chance to really start over. I told him I was nervous that there were more lies out there that would be a set-back if we were to try to re-build our relationship. I asked for the truth. Well. . . . good news and bad news. He told me the truth- that indeed his mistress has been to his hotel on several occasions- but that the affair is rally over now. BTW, they still work together.
    I feel as though I have been punched in the gut AGAIN. I feel hopeless and tired. Tired of all the lies and deception. But, I asked for the truth and I got it!! Just not sure what to do with it!!! I would appreciate any insight from others.

    • exercisegrace February 10, 2015 at 2:19 pm #

      Lin, I guess I would have a lot more questions. When did she visit his hotel? Six months ago or a week ago? That would tell you a lot about where he is as far as the affair truly being over. Next, I would need to give thought to what the ground rules would be, and it would certainly include both couples’ and individual counseling. Are you comfortable with them continuing to work together? I know I would not be, and he would have to find another job. Some will disagree with that, but your mental health comes first. You didn’t create this mess, he did. A counselor would be able to help you both set healthy boundaries for many areas.

    • Rachel February 10, 2015 at 6:12 pm #

      Sorry that you are in this situation. You don’t deserve your husband to have a mistress. I wouldn’t stand for that treatment.
      If you feel that your husband is willing to work on your marriage than do so. But he really needs to come clean. It sounds like now that he’s in the hotel it’s even easier to meet up with the mistress.
      Will you ever be able to trust him??
      A zebra doesn’t change it’s stripes!
      I wish you peace, you deserve it.

  4. Untold February 10, 2015 at 1:46 pm #

    Lin, so sorry for your trouble. IMO, be grateful you got the truth. That’s where it all begins and ends, with lies. It may hurt receiving and giving the truth, but you know it’s authentic and can make informed decisions. I wish I would have gotten more truth sooner.

    Our church counselor delayed the disclosure process from my unfaithful wife. Then when I insisted we needed that to heal, he obliged me but allowed it to end without all questions being answered. He even said she didn’t have to disclose some of the major events and lies, betrayals. I warned him of some continued deceit and that I knew some of the secrets she was holding on to. He advised against pushing further, and suggested I was trying to trap her.

    I felt so alone, despondent. I suffered for 2 years the deceit, gas lighting, disrespect. And now, when seeking reconciliation, she still was not being held accountable. She used him as a shield, hiding behind him and refusing to talk without his guidance. It allowed contemptuous behavior to continue. Other enablers, triggers have not been revealed.

    Now the counselor is advising me it’s time to forgive, move on to aid reconciliation. I say I’m still not sure I know what I’m forgiving. Continued secrecy prevents connection, trust-building. It’s discouraging. Putting pressure on the betrayed spouse without honesty from the unfaithful does not seem like it will promote successful healing

    • exercisegrace February 10, 2015 at 2:14 pm #

      Untold, I’m sorry you are going through this. When my husband and I first started counseling, I had the distinct feeling that secrets were still being kept. I voiced this repeatedly. Finally, the counselor asked me WHY I wanted to know EVERYTHING? WHY wasn’t I just satisfied to know that my husband had cheated, he was truly repentant, and was willing to do the hard work to reconcile? My response was the same as yours. I said in order to begin the process of forgiving him, I have to know exactly WHAT I am being asked to forgive. I was sick of being kept in the dark and knowing there were things known only to the two of “them”.

      At that point I turned to my husband and told him if he wasn’t willing to be completely honest and transparent with me, if he wasn’t willing to tell me everything then I was done with counseling and we would have to re-evaluate our decision to try and heal this any further. It was a strong statement, but I was just done. He finally admitted the rest of it, and I know he didn’t want to tell me because he was so ashamed. His affair partner admitted late in the game to having HPV and my husband was horrified that he had exposed us to VD.

      Have you had a session alone with this counselor to tell him what YOU need? After all, YOU are the one being asked to do the near impossible! Maybe it’s time to find a new counselor? Whatever you decide, remember only YOU know what you need and what you can live with. To heal and reconcile, you both have to be ready to move forward, confident that you have what you need to allow healing.

    • Tryinghard February 10, 2015 at 7:44 pm #

      More like it’s time to find a new counselor. He is wron WRONG on so many levels.. How can you possibly forgive something you don’t know about and the bad behavior is continuing

      • Strengthrequired February 10, 2015 at 8:01 pm #

        I agree untold, you need a new counsellor, someone that knows what he or she is talking about. Sorry about what you are going through with your cs.

    • Broken2 February 11, 2015 at 4:03 pm #

      Untold…..the counselor is full of poop. You don’t have to move on and shouldn’t have to move onto the next step until you are ready. Disclosure must happen in order for anyone to heal. FULL disclosure. How can you possibly put the puzzle of your life back together without all of the pieces? When your spouse was cheating your reality was different then the truth. I literally made a calendar, put the phone calls/text messages from my hubby and the OW on each day. It was a visual picture of what was really happening on those days compared to what I thought was happening. I saw a pattern, I learned when she was in my life on holidays and vacations. I saw how often they spoke when he was away on business. After all this was my life too. If you want to know every single little detail that is your right. You are the victim. Sounds like your counselor is protecting your wife best interest not yours. Honestly sounds like you need a counselor who understands infidelity. You don’t have to forgive her until your ready if that ever comes. That isn’t a prerequiste to recovery. It isn’t going to happen until the lies stop and the details exposed. There has to be complete and full transparency for you to heal and to trust again. An unfaithful spouse can’t help you heal (which by the way is her job) until she has felt the pain you. She must know your pain and be fully accountable for her actions. She must be truly remorseful and you have to really feel she means it. In the meantime I suggest reading some books and finding another counselor at least for yourself.

  5. lin February 10, 2015 at 6:29 pm #

    Thanks for the input.. My husband’s story has been changing. First he told me she visited his hotel room once and the affair has been over for 3 months. When I questioned him a few days later, he said she visited 4 times and that it has been over for4 months. Who knows what the truth is? He is currently saying he will not go to any more couples counseling ( we have done extensive couples counseling in the last 2 years to the tune of $100,000.00) however, he lied all through counseling. We are both in individual counseling. The fact that he is now telling some truths seems encouraging but overall, I feel so hopeless. He has made a half-assed attempt to look for another job but none of them will ever compare to his present level of compensation. He is a workaholic and likes his job. I am hurt, tired and confused. I desperately want to believe this man but he currently does not deserve any trust!!

    • Strengthrequired February 10, 2015 at 7:55 pm #

      Lin, I’m so sorry about what you are going through. You said you told him to leave 6 months ago and so he moved into a hotel, maybe that was exactly what he needed, which is why he may have realised that he was losing you and needed to let the ow go. I’m only speculating, but maybe that is what he has done, even though it took a few months for him to do it.
      Have you asked him why it took so long to let go of her, as well as why now after two years of counsselling and all that money spent, that he how’s wants back into the marriage?
      I know how much you want to trust your h, I believe most of us here are still wanting that too with our cs, yet I’m here to tell you, trust comes back with time, he ATM needs to prove himself to you and your marriage.
      I moved away with my children, and my h was only around one or two days a week, after we moved, it took him four mths to let the ow go, probably because she seemed to pressure him even more to leave me, and enjoyed discrediting me to him, which he did not like. I know that I haven’t recieved all the information about what went on with them, but what I do know is it has given me plenty of images, that I prefer to live without now. Yet I will tell you, right now, I do not trust my h, I love him, but I do not trust him, not yet. I just sit back and watch, and give him brownie points every time he shows me that he is working on regaining my trust.
      I’m not saying I don’t have many conflicting thoughts that I process throughout the day, because I do, yet they are my thoughts, that have me just wanting to give up trying and just run a mile without looking back, only because at times it is hard, very hard, especially when you want so much to just move on, and past the affair, the betrayal, yet your mind just doesn’t want to cooperate.
      So I talk to him when I have concerns, I let him know how I feel, and with his help I get the strength to stay and keep working on our marriage, and just keep my eyes open. Yet just being able to relax a bit without the thoughts would be wonderful.
      Good luck

  6. Tryinghard February 10, 2015 at 8:48 pm #

    I have no interest in seeing shades of grey. I didn’t read the book either. Not into mommy porn! Didn’t watch the vampire movies everyone else saw either. My tastes are more sophisticated than that trash. Yeah ok I can swear like a sailor, but I hate tacky. Besides they say people who swear are more trustworthy:). That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

    If you haven’t seen The Imitation Game go see it. Wonderful movie.

    • Rachel February 10, 2015 at 10:41 pm #

      I have no interest at all in seeing that movie either. I really dont understand what all the hoop-la is about.
      I have heard some showings are already sold out with groups of women who have preordered their tickets.
      I don’t know, maybe it’s me.

      • Tryinghard February 10, 2015 at 11:11 pm #

        No it’s not you Rachel. First of all why would you go see a sexy movie with other women??? Seems counterintuitive to me:). I got talked I to seeing that stupid Sex in The City with a bunch of girls. I felt like I was back in junior high school. If I want to watch porn I’ve got cable.

        • gizfield February 10, 2015 at 11:26 pm #

          I read about one chapter of the first Shades of Grey book as a Kindle sample and it was just ridiculously bad. I hate the commercial because my daughter has seen it and it’s just scaggy.

        • Strengthrequired February 10, 2015 at 11:42 pm #

          Th, I haven’t been able to get into sex and the city either, it amazes me though on just how many women love it. imwont say I haven’t watched it, just can’t get hooked on it.
          As for shades of grey, not jumping to go see it either.
          Maybe I’m just boring lol

  7. lin February 10, 2015 at 11:13 pm #

    SR- Thank you for your kind response. I will be keeping my eyes especially wide open on Feb. 13 after reading Doug’s comment. I can honestly say I have never heard of Mistress Day but there are a lot of things I am learning!!

    • Strengthrequired February 10, 2015 at 11:52 pm #

      Lin, I hope I helped in some way, it truly doesn’t hurt to keep your eyes and ears open, that is what will eventually help you see if you can trust or not. Pay attention to your h efforts are doing right by you, if he truly wants his marriage with you, he will show you, he will prove it, it’s just that we as the bs have become more guarded and have become more vigilant in giving our trust back so easily. so they have to show us, otherwise we nolonger end up with the patience to wait, we just give up and let go, once we have had enough.

  8. Tryinghard February 11, 2015 at 9:05 am #

    I read The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. Truer words are no more explicable than that when dealing with betrayal. They say so many stupid things and really their thoughts are not working correctly. Sure he will say 3 times and then next time it’s four. Really what’s the difference. It happened once for sure and that’s plenty. It’s like we have a need to put the affair in a “not so bad” category. This is a false sense of security. It’s all bad. Also I do believe for men their is some sense of forgetfulness. Now for a woman she will know each and every time.

    You’ve got to get through all the babble Both yours and his and deal with each other honestly. He either wants to stop the affair, cut it off completely, and start to work on reconciliation or not. You do too. Ambivalence at this point is just everyone staying miserable especially you. He may be perfectly fine staying married to you and the marriage as it is and still have his piece on the side. This is not only his or your choice. Both of you are in this choice. Your job is to decide what you can live with and I would think this state of limbo is untenable. Time for everyone to shit or get off the pot!!!!

    • antiskank February 11, 2015 at 5:34 pm #

      Th, you’re so right. The time for pot sitting needs to end and quickly. The cheater often does everything in their power to have their cake and eat it too!. For me, the reason I need to know all of the facts is so that I know where we stand, what is the total damage done, is anything salvageable? My cheating spouse has been telling me everything he thought I would want to hear, whatever it took to smooth the waters or to make me pay for making him give up his skank, anything to make me stop asking questions.
      I have given him so many chances I’ve lost count. Each time, he blows it by doing nothing for me or our marriage. He has sworn that he is being honest, sworn he is over the skank each time, and each time he lied!! He recently admitted to holding onto the fantasy, and the good feelings as well as fantasizing about her giving him BJs for the entire time since the first DDay. It has now been 2 years and 8 months of constant pain, a roller coaster of hope and despair, only to be told in the same day that
      1. he loves me and wants to be together forever
      2. he doesn’t love me or feel any spark, fire, or passion for me and hasn’t for many years.
      He flip flops so much my head is spinning. He insists he wants one last chance to prove he loves me or that the feelings can return now that he is “really, completely” over the skank. Why is he messing with my head? Is it even possible that he could have any feelings for me while keeping the affair fantasy alive all this time? I’m not even sure how I feel about him any more. I can’t imagine choosing to live a life without real love, respect, honesty, and trust. I can’t seem to even pretend to try to rebuild a marriage at this point. Can life ever be normal or good again if I let him stay?

  9. lin February 11, 2015 at 6:52 pm #

    TH and Antiskank- Yes, the truth may set me free. The more truth I learn, the more free- to- leave I feel. I honestly think that CS go against their values and spend most of their time justifying it in their head – they may not really know what the truth is any more. I know that 100% without a doubt I cannot live with lying and deception. Just not sure where it leaves me. Sick of the same old cycle of lying and false reconciliation. Don’t want to be manipulated any more. Can’t believe a thing he says. Affairs mess with everybody’s head- I just don’t want to live like that any more. I hold onto hope that things could change but at this point words mean nothing. Action speaks.

    • Tryinghard February 11, 2015 at 9:27 pm #

      Lin and Antiskank
      I hear you. I know what you’re saying. I know we all wish we could open their heads and get the answers. They have some but you have to sift through all the bullshit talk and most is bullshit talk. Trying to get out of trouble with mommy like bad little boys with their hands in the cookie jar!!!

      If you want advice and maybe you don’t but for me I didn’t move forward until I stopped parsing his words and figured out what I wanted. I knew I didn’t want him AT ALL if she were one iota in our lives. So good thing we could fire her useless ass. No way she could have stayed. I was ready for a legal fight but I knew I’d win that. She didn’t have the balls to even try. I made it infinitely clear he move back home and we work on the marriage or I was going forward with the divorce.. He was ok with that until his attorney told him about what my attorney was going after and like magic he was over it.

      Had he been all sad and missing her, which I never saw one indication of, he’d have been tossed out. No way I was going to be sympathetic to his missing her. He wanted her I told him “there’s the door, don’t let it kick you in the ass on your way out”. But no way I would let anymore of what was mine go with him. I was ready for battle and I was fed up!

      He has to be totally honest like an adult and have real conversations. And WTF living in a hotel?? Seriously, he can’t move back home if he wants to reconcile?? You cannot work on reconciliation when living apart. It’s just putting off the inevitable.

      Start detaching and see how fast they come running back. LOL you may not want them back and it may be too late, right?

      • Strengthrequired February 11, 2015 at 10:58 pm #

        I agree th, definately need to be living together to give the marriage a chance. I think what you said, just gave me a hug of kick in the pants.
        I’ve seen my h offer marital advice by telling his bil to start proving himself to his wife my h sister, and it actually upset me, because I wish I could see him prove himself more to me, so we ended up in an arguement. He still doesn’t take full responsibility for his affair, he blames both of us. In the midst of our argument, he told me he had nothing left to give me, because he believes he has given me everything, to prove himself.
        He has only given me, what he thinks he needs to give me, nothing more.
        Yet after what you said, I need to start trying harder to let go of his affair, and what he hasn’t done to prove himself and start focusing more on what he has done. If only I didn’t feel so insecure, yet one things for sure, I refuse to take the blame for him going outside our marriage. That’s on him, its his sin to bear. Not mine.

        • Strengthrequired February 11, 2015 at 11:00 pm #

          That was supposed to say a big kick up the pants, not hug etc. silly autocorrect.

  10. Tryinghard February 11, 2015 at 11:45 pm #

    LOL SR I knew what you meant.

    You know we keep waiting for the guilty party to make things right for us. Have the right answer, do the right thing, love us the way we imagine we need to be loved to be happy. I say bullshit on that. Start worrying about YOU and what you do to make YOU happy. You’ve got your own set of values start living by them. Quit waiting for some magical moment or some magical epiphany from them to have the aha now it’s ok moment. Once you work on your happiness and not wait for them it’s amazing how they want to join the party.

    I think we spend way too much time trying to make the cheater explain themselves, tell us WHY, or HOW COULD THEY. That’s not the answers we need. The answers we need are by standing by our boundaries and Insisting we be treated with respect and dignity. Anything short of that is bullshit and can hit the road as far as I’m concerned. So when you call your h on his bullshit advice talk and he wants to cloud it up by being defensive and that’s disrespecting you. He needs to be humbled and most cheaters hate being humbled after all the AP had them up on that glorious pedestal, how dare we knock it out from under them and make them crash Dow to earth. It’s nice when your head is in the clouds when really their heads are up their asses!!! I compare it to teaching a dog to walk on a leash:). but once they know you are going to call them on their bullshit because the humbling is about to begin, they think twice. So go ahead and call him on it SR. Stand your ground, don’t grovel or patronize him. He’s not the boss of you. He thinks you’re afraid of him so he pulls his bullshit rants trying to make you out the bad guy instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. I don’t know about you but I’m way too old for that treatment. As I said he doesn’t like it, there’s the freaking door!!! I can dish out the praises too, like when he walks nicely on that leash he gets a nice juicy treat

    • Strengthrequired February 12, 2015 at 3:54 am #

      Th, you know what, I think I’m waiting for him to give me as much time and as much thought and energy as he gave her, even though I know, You can’t in the normal world outside of infidelity, it’s real life, not the fantasy land they were living, where no one existed but them. Yet it would be nice to have some of it.
      love the juicy treat comment.

  11. antiskank February 12, 2015 at 4:31 pm #

    Lol!! I love that juicy treat idea too!

    SR, I know what you mean about wanting the thought and energy and attention that he gave to his skank. I want to feel that he actually wants to be there with me, that he’s not just putting in time and feeling like the martyr for “all” that he’s doing for me!

    Yes, WE realize that this is the real world and undertand how relationships work, especially longterm ones. Life can’t be all romance and ego boosting. Unfortunately they are still craving the feelings of the fantasy romance they were in and are disappointed by the lack of excitement in a damaged marriage. We can’t immediately pretend that life is percfect after the betrayal and swoon over their very presence. We are telling them that they are bad for doing what they’ve done and they are now accustomed to their AP batting their lashes and admiring them as heroes! They must come back down to earth with a crash. Must be hard for the poor dears to take!

    • Strengthrequired February 12, 2015 at 6:31 pm #

      Antiskank, it would be nice though wouldn’t it, lol. Yet as I told my h every time he tells me, what do you want me to do, not work and sit next to you? I say, of course not, I know I would get sick of you if you were up my ass all day. Lol. Then he is like, ohhh really, you would get sick of me.
      Don’t forget antis kink, they had to cram in so much time for the ow, to make up for lost time, geez, they were living with the worst wife in the world for a lot longer than that, so they play catch up for lost years. Poor things, how exhausting. I guess I have three years of lost years to catchup on, must be why not as much effort is needed. Lol.
      My h was wearing these new work pants he bought, and as he bent over, it looked odd, so I told him they looked like he was wearing a nappy as he bent over, took a photo so he could see, now he won’t wear them, lol.
      He was self conscious all day yesterday wearing them. The ow probably would have told him how sexy he looked in them, lol.

  12. gizfield February 17, 2015 at 10:26 pm #

    One type of comment that I have seen repeatedly on this site is that affair partners think that the ” reason” people stay with their spouse is not that they ” love their spouse. ” The AP wants to think that the cheater is not actually choosing the spouse, but rather “their life.”

    I find that amusing, because what the hell do they think that “life” is? Basically, it is the spouse, everything they are and do, and everything the couple has built together. It’s not some bizarre, abstract entity that just appeared out of nowhere, by itself. Each person has a life within the marriage and also one outside it. The life outside the marriage is usually pretty consistent whether a person is married to one person or the other, and even if they are single. What I mean by this is that if my husband and I divorced, I would basically still be the same person. Same likes, dislikes, habits, family, job, etc. What would change is my marriage partner. He replaced my first husband, and I would likely find another boyfriend or husband. That’s just the facts. So what is actually being chosen is the relationship with the spouse, not the “life.” They would take that with them. The affair partner would be the replacement, they wouldn’t even have to look for anyone like regular divorced people do. So what is the holdup??

    When people are dating and looking for a marriage partner they look at the entire person, and what they believe life with that person would be like. They compare all factors, not just a few. I believe that when spouses decide whether they want to be with the affair partner or their spouse, they go through the process again. If they “love” the AP but stay married you can bet the comparison was done. They aren’t going to tell you that though, lol. There are many, many, many characteristics that keep people who are married together. I would much rather think my husband is with me because of the life we have made together, my personality and character, who I really AM, than some superficial unimportant Horseshit. (my ass size, hair color, age, etc. You know, superficial crap) So don’t try to insult people who were chosen over you, because that’s really what it boils down to. You can’t blast most married cheaters out of their marriage with dynamite. They are there because they WANT to be.

  13. Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 2:45 am #

    Your right giz.

    • Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 3:30 am #

      You know giz, I have been thinking about what you said, and quite honestly I don’t expect a ow come on here and actually say, my mm did not love me. I think I would be amazed if someone did.

      • gizfield February 18, 2015 at 10:51 am #

        My co cheater wasn’t married, Strength, but he sure spent a lot of time spouting off how much he loved me, he wished we were married, we still have “time for a couple of kids.” Funny thing, all those years we dated I heard the same crap. Nothing came of it then either. He didn’t mean it, if he did it would have happened. We were both single. He was telling me what I wanted to hear.

  14. OHC February 18, 2015 at 7:41 am #

    It’s different for men. Most of them lose seeing their kids every day and if they are the main breadwinner, it can be tough to get to school events, etc. so they essentially become Wednesday dinner and Saturday night dads. I’ve had two friends stay in marriages much longer than they should have for that reason alone

    Second, the man is usually the one who has to move out of the house and go find an apartment somewhere. It’s incredibly depressing. Even more depressing because they are still paying for the nice big house they don’t live in, but now also have to live in a small house, buy all new furniture, etc and haven’t lived alone in fifteen years. This thought seems to scare men more than women. I think it’s why they all remarry so quickly

    Third, they know they will lose some friends. Most couples take sides in a divorce. If they cheated, even more likely that they will lose friends and their social circle

    Fourth, a lot of men like the image of the pretty wife and the three healthy kids in the Christmas photo and are afraid of losing that image and saying they failed. It’s a failure. They don’t want to have to admit to anyone they failed at something really important in life

    Fifth, it’s a financial hit. Half their salary gone before they know it. Makes a big impact on their lifestyle. And in some states it goes on indefinitely or at least until their ex remarries

    So, as long as things aren’t awful with their spouse (and sometimes even when they are) most men won’t upset the balance of their life. Whether or not they are still in love with their wife or the AP or no one at all. This is true whether there was an affair or not as well. I’ve seen it play out many times with friends of mine. They will accept a relationship that is a 4-6 with their wife over a relationship that is an 8-10 with someone else

    Not every time mind you, there are definitely times they truly love their wife and come to realize the AP was awful. And there are times they give everything up and walk away. But most settle in the middle.

  15. gizfield February 18, 2015 at 7:58 am #

    Lol, I’m SOoooooo flattened that my husband made the enormous sacrifice to be with 4-6 little ole me when he could’ve been with an 8-10 road whore. Think I’ll wake him up right now and thank him for his charity to the less fortunate.

    • Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 5:35 pm #

      Lol, giz… Thanks for that .

  16. OHC February 18, 2015 at 8:05 am #

    I never said it was your situation. I don’t even think all of these were true in my AP’s situation. But men do stay for reasons other than the idea that they are madly in love with their wife. Whether there is an affair or not. It’s silly to think there aren’t other considerations at play

    As I’ve said before, I don’t think APs are in love in the majority of affairs. I think most are really about sex or flash attraction to someone and not even based in friendship, let alone love. But I do think there is a sizable minority in which it is a factor. And whether or not the man stays in his marriage isn’t proof that they didn’t love their AP. Thats an overly romantic view of marriage and relationships, in my view

  17. gizfield February 18, 2015 at 8:16 am #

    I’ll tell you, ohc, the real reason married people stay with their spouses is because the spouse LETS THEM. It really is that simple. You can think you are an 8-10 if you like, it certainly doesn’t matter to me. You know why AP think they are that? Because they are in a relationship where the other person has to put forth NO EFFORT. Wow, you get all those wonderful calls, texts, emails. In other words, WORDS. You get to be someone’s unpaid sounding board. I don’t really know of any other relationship where you can get such a return for so little effort. And in a so called “physical affair” they get a strings free booty call as well. They know the price of admission. Whatever it is that you want to hear. I wouldn’t be too flattered by that if I were you. Don’t you think we could all have that if that’s what we wanted?

  18. gizfield February 18, 2015 at 8:33 am #

    Ok, ohc, let’s just say Mr. Married Man is “madly in love” with you. That’s better than regular, boring married love , right? Surely it must be, based on all the magnificent sacrifices he has made for you. So, what are those sacrifices any old way? He spends time with you while he is working. He tells you all his crappy little problems. Except about his marriage, of course, cause you don’t talk about THAT. He tells you he loves you.

    I’m sure you can add to the list, so please do. Remember the old saying. Listen to what they DO. Not what they SAY. He’s been telling you exactly who he is, all along, without saying a word.

  19. Exercise grace February 18, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    YAWN…..STRETCH……. Frankly I’m tired of the subject. Married men would never tell their whores the truth about their marriage. I’m sure they don’t talk about the whispered “I love yous”, the sex that is still happening, the deep connection they still feel to their wife, despite what life has been putting them through. I’m sure they don’t talk about their pet names and inside jokes. I could type up a million of these. And while they don’t talk about their whores to us, at the end of the day WE are the ones they STILL choose. The who’re gets unceremoniously dumped and never spoken to again in most cases. If the whore was really, truly loved the way they THINK they were loved? It would be impossible for the married man to stay away from her. But in the final analysis, despite what he may have briefly thought he felt? Most men realize they risked treasure for trash.

    If he wanted to leave he wouldn’t care about the house or the friends or the money. He would want to build a new picture, and he would tell himself that visitation is enough and kids will ” get over it”. The overwhelming statistics bear out the fact that whores are nearly always a temporary diversion and wives are still the love of their life. WE are still their bride, the women they loved and married.

    • gizfield February 18, 2015 at 10:41 am #

      Actually, E.g., I’m tired of the subject myself. I just seriously do not understand why it is so important to the AP to believe that some person cheating with them LOVES them. Not only that they love them, but they also want to believe that they love them MORE than a person they married and have/made a life with. The spouse is just a convenient, easy, no effort choice. Second fiddle to true love. Riiiight. I used to be that easy, laid back person. Now, not so much.

      If any AP thinks a Betrayed Spouse is easy to live with, they are wrong. I used to be a happy, carefree, jealousy free, trusting, sweet spouse. I’ll never go back to that, at least not with this guy. Prince Charming has fallen off that horse, and it has ran away. He doesn’t even have a horse anymore. I do have to wonder one thing. My husband and the whore knew each other long before he met me. Why didn’t they get together then? They were both single. I guess it takes marriage to another person to make people Irresistible to each other sometimes. Knowing they can have a pretend relationship, without having to have a real one.

      I suggest that any AP who think their AP really loves them go public and legitimize their true love. Things that are real survive the light of day. But I guess it’s easier to sneak around in the darkness than come into the light.

    • showmehowtoheal June 11, 2015 at 3:37 pm #

      ” I’m sure they don’t talk about the whispered “I love yous”, the sex that is still happening, the deep connection they still feel to their wife, despite what life has been putting them through”

      No they don’t. They lie to them, as well as they lie to us and to their friends. It’s really the big ‘secret’ that keep the affair going.

      Yet I am suppose to keep my head high and not be the one to alert our friends & family to the lies and betrayal. What happened to ‘communication’ in a marriage, assuming that was went wrong. I still don’t have that good communication, so I don’t know (or if he knows) what ‘the’ issues are.

  20. gizfield February 18, 2015 at 10:03 am #

    Yep, E.G.. Statistically, 50% of marriages end in divorce and all those people deal with houses, friends, kids, etc. Then, statistically, 3% of people go on to marry the AP. That’s quite a little discrepancy. What happened to the other 97%? I guess they chose their own personal comfort, i e their “life” over True Love.

    If we were living in a society where divorce isn’t embraced, and unfortunately even celebrated, I might believe the hoopla that people stay with their spouse for reasons other than love but there really aren’t that many real deterrents. Most of my daughter’s friends are from divorced families. Single parent families are the norm in most schools today. No one blinks an eye.

    • Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 5:50 pm #

      Giz, if people want to divorce they will, divorce is all around us, if a man is in love with his ap, he will leave his life for the ow. Hell, they practically did, when they thought they were I live with the ow, and started treating us like trash, my h had plenty of time to get out of this terrible marriage he had with me, those terrible pesky kids that make his social life a zero, (sarcasim). Now during his affair, he did not give two hoots about his wife or children, and that was when he was “inlove”, so why decide to stay when he wasn’t around for the kids, he was too busy somewhere else having his ego stroked. It’s not because he thought it was easier than to go through divorce, it was because he loved his family, meaning his wife and kids, and the ow didn’t come close to fulfilling that role.

  21. OHC February 18, 2015 at 8:44 pm #

    Well, I finally agree with EG on something. This is boring and a waste of my time. You will never take the time to actually listen to what I have to say or have a conversation. But boy do you love to condescend

    Giz, my only comment is that you read more carefully. I never said my AP was madly in love with me. I said I was madly in love with him. But I suppose I’m not allowed to have an opinion on my own feelings either.

    And I never said the wife was a “6”, nor that I was an “8”. I gave the example of a RELATIONSHIP that was a 6. And I never said whose relationship was that level. It was simply an example of why a man may stay in a marriage after he’d fallen in love with someone else.

    If I were you I would only be concerned if your own husband stayed with you because he was still in love. It is beyond me why you care if all the other cheating spouses out there in the world love their wives or their APs or are actually gay, for that matter. Why is it so important to you that you be right about every single marriage out there? I would never claim to know absolutely everything about everyone else, but maybe I’m just not smart enough to follow your arguments. Or confident enough to feel omniscient

    • gizfield February 18, 2015 at 9:47 pm #

      I didn’t say you were madly in love. Look at your comment about 8:05 this a.m. My comment was about married people. My reading is just fine, thanks. And for someone who doesn’t care, you have to defend every cheater and say people don’t listen to you. Anyone who is interested in what either of us said can scroll up, and read. Including me.

      • OHC February 18, 2015 at 9:55 pm #

        At 8:33 you made a comment about whether my AP was “madly in love” with me, in quotes, as if it was something I had said. And your comment wasn’t about married people, it was about me and my AP

        And you were also wrong about saying I was rating the wives vs the relationships. But heaven forbid you admit you made a mistake

        You can view it as defending cheaters. Or you can see it as I hectic rely looking at the situation and using logic

        • gizfield February 18, 2015 at 10:07 pm #

          When I said “let’s just say” that is like what you would call a hypothetical situation. A theory. That sort of thing.

          As far as “ratings”, you said people will stay in a 4-6 marriage over a 8-10 affair . Not me. I don’t have to be right but I’m not admitting to shit I didn’t say or do either. Like I said, everyone on here can read.

          • OHC February 18, 2015 at 10:10 pm #

            Yep. I encourage them to.

  22. Tryinghard February 18, 2015 at 8:47 pm #

    Well I somewhat agree with OHC. I think many people stay in less than satisfying relationships for the reasons OHC enumerated. Cheater, non-cheaters alike. Where I disagree is I don’t think its only men. I think many women do too. After all could any of us say we’re married to an 8-10??? LOL seriously are there really ANY 8’s or 10’s out there? Hey maybe we are missing out on something by not dumping those 4’s and start an earnest search for the 10. Personally, I won’t settle for less than a 10, I’ll leave the eights for the lesser women:)

    Personally I think I could swing a dead cat and hit someone who would treat me better than my husband has!! Ok, maybe he loved her but he loves his dog, A LOT!!!, his crazy ass mother, his nasty comfy slippers, his car and that favorite holey sweatshirt. So what??? Fact is, once it all came out in the light, the secret was out, I knew, his children knew, his friends knew, his parents knew, his employees and customers knew, suddenly she wasn’t so wonerful. Suddenly he saw her in the real, harsh light of day. He came begging back. No it wasn’t love it was his fantasies of what HE thought she needed him for which was a good paying job, and money for sex. Suddenly he was NOT flattered that he’d allowed himself to be so manipulated. I gave him every opportunity to go with her. The door was open. So if she was an 8 or 10 and he stayed with a 4 or 6 he made another boneheaded choice!!!

    But here’s the deal chickie, it’s proven, EMPIRICALLY, that men affair down the majority of time. I know it’s a tough pill to swallow, but it’s true. I’m sure you think you are wayyy better than your MM wife but really you aren’t. If you were and he truly wanted you he’d be with you not her. You can rationalize it any way you want to assuage your pain but he’s loves her way more, way better, way deeper, way more committed to her than to you. If he didn’t he could give a shit about the money, the kids, the friends etc, men do it all the time. Fact is probably the only thing you two have in common is your work. After all you two didn’t even have sex and that’s huge!! And the fact that since you e been gone and NC he says the marriage is really good.

    Ok, not picking on you and Maybe you’re talking anecdotally about why men stay and it doesn’t pertain to your cheating relationship with a married man but, this certainly pertains to my situation and I would dare say many others here as well.

    • OHC February 18, 2015 at 9:09 pm #

      My only response is I don’t think it’s a matter of one of us being better than each other as a person. I don’t think I’m way better than her. But I don’t think she is way better than me either. Does he? I don’t know, but I doubt he’d say he “affaired down”. He’d just say we are very, very different

      Better for him, though? Very possible. I would never presume to know which one of us was better for him as a relationship partner. I just don’t think the fact he decided to stay is proof that she was better for him, it is just proof that he wanted to stay married more than he wanted to be with me.

      And don’t forget, I never asked him to leave her or even gave him the impression that I wanted him to. I would have been disgusted with him if he had. Whether he loved me or not is irrelevant as to what the right thing was to do, which was try to save the marriage. His marriage did improve. But it never stopped him from wanting me in his life or even sending me a love letter after about a year of no contact.

      I do think women stay in less than great marriages as well, my point was just that the woman’s life is often less disturbed–they usually keep the kids, the house, and if an affair is involved, a lot of the friends. And if they don’t work they continue to have a good income without needing to work. I was responding to Giz’s comment about how her life wouldn’t be different if she divorced

      • Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 10:31 pm #

        Ohc, not all women end up with everything. I have several friends that ended up with nothing in their divorces. Due to them wanting out of the marriage and wanted nothing from the man they were divorcing.
        As for me, my world would have changed significantly, my children’s lives would have changed significantly. My h and I would have separated everything, the homes would have been sold, and debts paid. I stayed home to raise my children, my youngest being one at the time and my second youngest just three, I had 4 other children too, I was unable to work due to the cost involved in child care, yet I went searching for work only to get knocked back because my experience was nolonger adequate. My h had the business, so he still had work and would have been fine, she was already planning on having a child with him, she was already planning marriage to him. She wanted to take my children just so she wouldn’t have to see him pay child support to me, so all the money would have been kept between them.
        So, I don’t agree with what you wrote, there are several women out there that have been divorced and are living homeless on the street even with their children. So not all women end up with everything, sometimes it doesn’t happen like that. Not all divorces end up rosy for the ex wife, where she ends up with everything. I will tell you, it’s the worse thing trying to figure out what to do, and knowing the ow is wanting you to end up with nothing, not even your children.
        It’s a scary thing to be faced with.

        • OHC February 18, 2015 at 10:39 pm #

          Oh gosh. To be clear, it’s not that I think all women do great in divorces. I don’t disagree with what you said. I was really responding to Giz saying nothing in her life would change in a divorce. And honestly, if my AP had gotten a divorce, nothing would have changed in his wife’s life. She basically functioned as a single mother already anyway, one with a nanny and great income without having to work. That wouldn’t change except he wouldn’t be home on Friday and Saturday nights, which is the only time they saw each other

          But I have other friends that have been greatly affected by divorce. Especially if they have to work and balance child care and even be he one to pay alimony.

          I will say though that I only have one male friend who won full custody and didn’t have to leave the house. That seems to be universal, even in this day and age

          • Strengthrequired February 18, 2015 at 10:53 pm #

            Ohc, thanks for rectifying that for me, because in all honesty, when you have some ow who is hell bent on making you suffer, by way of taking your h and children, and whatever else she can get her hands on, so you end up with nothing, you literally feel bewildered, and your not sure what to do, who to turn to, because you used to be able to turn to your h, but at the time he was a stranger.
            She was planning her marriage and even told him she wanted his child during that time, within 5 weeks of their affair starting. Yet he would tell her he was not going to marry her, and he was not having anymore children, he had children already. He also told her, he would not treat her children as if they were his, because they weren’t.
            Of course she never liked that.

            • OHC February 18, 2015 at 11:05 pm #

              No, believe me I have had so many friends go through divorces in recent years. I’ve seen the whole range of outcomes. Most of them do really well ultimately, though, which is good

              I also don’t understand why an OW would want a man who would walk out on his family. The point I was trying to make earlier is that while I believe two APs can love each other, it is irrelevant. The CS should always try to make things work with their spouse, whether they were in love or not.

              I don’t agree with EG, who said if a man is really in love he will always leave his spouse. I think a lot of them realize they need to suck it up and recommit to their wives and family. And that’s what they should do. If it doesn’t work out after real effort and no contact with the AP, then they can get a divorce. If the OW is still single and interested, they can ask them out then and start over

              That would be the only case in which i would want to be with my AP. And to be honest, even then really not until the divorce was final and hopefully he would have been on some other dates as well

              • betrayedchump February 20, 2015 at 10:42 pm #

                To all of you that are engaging with OHC:
                GIVE IT UP!!!!
                We are NEVER going to convince her that what she did was irreprehensible!!!!
                OHC still loves her APMM!!!!
                She keeps the door open for his return even while she is involved in a relationship with another man!
                Here is why I say this:
                “She accepted a LOVE LETTER from her APMM after about one year of NO CONTACT”? For what reason do you accept any letter from your APMM after you sacrificed SO MUCH to be done with your affair & make things right in your world???? Why would you open up your new life to the old wicked ways you left far behind????
                “That would be the only case in which I WOULD WANT TO BE WITH MY APMM, and to be HONEST(honest?), even then really not until the divorce was final & HOPEFULLY he would have been on some other dates as well”????
                Yeah that would ease one’s conscience now wouldn’t it!!!!!!
                Peace to All.

                • OHC February 21, 2015 at 12:19 am #

                  Ummm, when did I say I was in a relationship with another man? I am dating a couple of men casually, but haven’t gotten beyond a handful of dates with any of them at this point. And I wasn’t dating anyone at all when he sent me the letter.

                  I don’t know what you mean by “accepting” a letter from him. I read it, I didn’t respond. We didn’t start communicating again for several months after that

                  I’m not even going to bother with the rest of what you have written, but I haven’t been cheating on a boyfriend with my ex-AP, as you insinuated

  23. gizfield February 18, 2015 at 9:52 pm #

    I said I would be the same basically. Married. Single. Alone. In a relationship. I am what I am. Therefore, my life would be pretty much the same, unless I packed up and moved across the country. Which I have no intention of doing. I like it fine where I am.

  24. Tryinghard February 18, 2015 at 11:18 pm #


    Ok work with me on this. Look you don’t deserve this shit. This guy you tell him it’s off, you move, change jobs and he sends you a love letter a year later. Come on. That’s cruel. First he lies to you, leads you on, professing his respect and adoration yet he stays with his wife expecting you to accept his crumbs of attention he can dole out when it’s convenient. Yeah ok you had dinners and drinks and breakfasts with him ON THE COMPANY DIME no less. What about holidays and vacations and real time together? Everything you did with him sounds like it revolved around work. Your story is an o,d one its a cliche. You fell in love with your boss. Ok he’s handsome, brilliant and he can sell the shit out of widgets or whatever wonderful task he does. Maybe he’s a lawyer, forensic account, political consultant whateve. Doesn’t matter. He’s an asshole. He cheats on his wife with you and he goes home to her with her none the wiser. She should at least have a vote in what’s going on with her relationship and the fact that he lies through his teeth to her, and yes keeping you a secret is still a lie, A BIG FAT LIE, is keeping her from having a real relationship. Or just for the sake of argument let’s say she suspects but just doesn’t care. Truth is you will NEVER know if that’s the truth because you only “know” what he tells you.
    What the hell kind of relationship is this? Do you have a grudge against yourself? Don’t you know or want better? This guy is abusive. He is emotionally and physically unavailable. Why are you really attracted to him? And please don’t give some bullshit Cinderella answer like the heart wants what it wants cause that’s BULLSHIT! You choose to love. Love is a verb. You show love by kindness and openness and honesty none of which he’s been with you. Sure he gets a real kick carrying on at the office right under everyone’s noses but that is narcissism and degrading to you. You deserve more respect from the people you work with. They guess, gossip and assume and although you guys didn’t have sex, you are still having an emotional affair, or where not to mis-speak.

    Anyway, I hope you’re not by yourself spilling your tears on this clod. Because he is sooo not worth it.

    • OHC February 19, 2015 at 7:07 am #

      I never share on this blog why I was in love with him because it’s just asking to be torn apart about someone who was very dear to me. About a relationship that was incredibly important to me. Self abuse would be giving anyone here real ammunition to hurt me

      But let’s just say there was much much more to our relationship than work. We had a deep emotional connection about many things. We continue to, actually. It’s just there, it’s present between us whether we put effort into it or not. And we helped each other through many very traumatic life events–as in him sitting and holding me while I sobbed, calling me every day to make sure I had gotten out of bed, gotten dressed, eaten something. And I did the same for him–traveling with him when he had a very emotional personal trip to make so he had support with him. Being the one person he called when his life was falling apart and he was just fly to random cities and drink in the airport.

      But the main point I would say is that its over. I mean it’s done and has been for a while. We don’t interact very often, but when we do it’s as friends. I don’t want anything more from him. I have a very active social life, am dating, am in a job that allows me to sleep in my own bed at night now. So if I get a text from him, I write back and that’s it. We may not contact each other for two or three weeks and that’s fine, the same way that would be fine from any friend. I’m not sitting there waiting.

      I still struggle with some aspects of our relationship, mostly because of some events at the end that were very difficult for both of us, but because we went no contact neither of us ever really worked through. And the last three to four months we were together was just a crazy time where it looked like his wife was leaving him, so I actually allowed myself to feel hope for the first time that maybe he would be single. That had never crossed my mind before and coupled with him admitting he was in love with me after all those years, then coming to a crashing halt, changing jobs, moving. It was too much and is still a difficult memory for me

      For me the love letter was a gift. That’s how I decided to view it, although I’m sure his wife would see it differently. And at first it greatly upset me. But he wasn’t asking me to be with him, or saying he was going to leave his wife. It was simply a long description of all the reasons he loved me and saying he would wait as long as it took for me to let him back into my life, on whatever terms. So now I have that, which is a wonderful thing to have from anyone you’ve had a long relationship with. I don’t read it, it’s tucked away. But I have it. And it didn’t stop me from moving forward

    • gizfield February 19, 2015 at 8:02 am #

      Thank you, Trying. I don’t think ohc actually reazlizes that the reason anyone says anything about her relationship with her affair partner at all is because they would like to help her. She always sees it as negative or an attack or something. I certainly mean everything I say in the best possible spirit. We’re all seen how all this usually turns out. But people will do as they please, regardless.

      Ohc, please know that everything I say is not about you. I have commented here long before you were here. I say what I mean, and don’t plan to change. I don’t feel that I say anything inappropriate about Cheaters but I do say what I think. To that effect, your relationship, your affair partner, and what you think are absolutely your own business, and your own opinion. As are mine. Do whatever makes you happy with this guy. I don’t even know you or him so I don’t even understand why what I think about this, or anything else, should matter to you, at all. I am not interested in debating about what I think, for sure.With that, I will just say Best Wishes.

  25. OHC February 19, 2015 at 8:37 am #

    It seems that the only way people want to “help” is by convincing me that my ex-AP is a raging asshole, he never cared about me and I didn’t really care about him, or trying to convince me to end an affair that ended over 18 months ago

    It would be one thing if I was still in love with him or still working with him or thinking about becoming physical. But I figured out how to end the relationship, go no contact, and put great separation between us without the help of folks on this blog or any blog. Or even a therapist at that time.

    I think some folks on here engage thoughtfully. And some seem genuinely concerned and are very kind towards me. But many fight anything I say, whether I’m talking about my situation or just in general. Or say something very insulting in reply to one if my comments, then say “oh, I was talking in general, why would you think you were the whore I talked about twenty times?”

    I don’t need to be here, obviously. But for me I try to make this part of my ongoing recovery therapy, like going to AA or something. But don’t act like I’m crazy for taking things personally sometimes or pretend people don’t purposefully lash out at me. Of course they do.

  26. gizfield February 19, 2015 at 8:54 am #

    Read my lips, ohc. I don’t have ANY INTEREST in your affair partner. He makes no difference to me. I didn’t read beyond the first couple of sentences you wrote. Like I said do what you want, leave me alone.

  27. gizfield February 19, 2015 at 8:57 am #

    Since you find me offensive, ohc, quit reading what I write. Simple enuf.

    • OHC February 19, 2015 at 9:01 am #

      I didn’t mention you once in my comment above. Again, instead of actually readijg what I write, the reaction is just hostility. You are proving my point.

  28. TryingHard February 19, 2015 at 11:36 am #

    This is a blog. We do not “know” each other. We know some of the stories. We only “know” what we write. Blogs seem to be a place for argument. I don’t care what you say “the sky is blue” and someone will say adamantly “oh not it’s not”. It’s easy. We don’t have to look you in the eye.

    We all state our opinions from our own experience. I think most times we do speak in generalities with regards to OW/OM, cheater, husbands, wives etc. I have never seen on this blog where anyone attacks someone personally. We may call bullshit or disagree but I’ve never read ANYONE here attack anyone personally. It’s a BLOG don’t take it personally!!!!

    That said, OHC you can only accuse me of calling your AP a raging asshole. I don’t know him, but from YOUR words IMHO any man who plays two women as he has you and his wife for so long and continues to do so with texts and love letters longggg after he’s been told it’s over and no you cannot go back and just be friends after an illicit love affair, you are fooling yourself if you think you can and doing harm to your own psyche, is a raging asshole, scumbag, loser (whew long run on sentence, whatever).

    I think you’re giving yourself wayyy too much credit by saying that your words could give us ammunition. OHC this is a blog, we really don’t care, we are pretend. If what we say bothers you or you don’t want any help from us you are free to go to another, so are we. I’ve read lots of blogs on this subject that just don’t suit me and some are written by betrayed spouses. Some are just nasty vindictive people and probably have more problems in life than just their cheating spouse. So I don’t comment and I don’t read them. And really I don’t know why you’re here. Like I said maybe you have a grudge against yourself and need ass chewing from betrayed wives??? 🙂 KIDDING! And seriously if you think you can come here and teach us all a lesson from an OW point of view well seriously you’re baking up the wrong tree. We’ve all been through the proverbial ringer. Your words so far have been patronizing at best. And your words yesterday although not directed to anyone in particular calling marital relationships 4-5 while extramarital relationship an 8-10 was insensitive at best and very ignorant at worst.

    I’ve said it before your words have actually helped me but probably not in a way you expect. Regardless, this is not my blog. You have every right as we do to post your opinions. So rock on or move on.

    • Strengthrequired February 19, 2015 at 3:28 pm #

      Ohc, I hope you are finding some peace with this new man your dating. I actually wanted to know how your Valentine’s Day went?

      • Strengthrequired February 19, 2015 at 3:40 pm #

        Ohh and ohc, I just wanted you to know that I have no doubt in my mind that you loved your ap. I know us women fall Inlove pretty hard. I also don’t have any doubts that there was a connection between the two of you, working so close everyday, can do that. Again, I am proud of you for ending that relationship, only because I know you deserve better, and I agree with you on one of your posts, where you said ” if and when he becomes available, and we are meant to be together we will” I do believe that, if any relationship is meant to be, it will happen in the right time. Yet it could also possibly mean that you may find your true love, if you haven’t already with this man you have been dating. You just never know, what’s wonderful aroudn the corner that is waiting for you.

        • OHC February 19, 2015 at 4:49 pm #

          Thank you! I’m going on a third date with a guy tonight I find very interesting. Of course, there is another guy I went on one date with whom I really liked, but haven’t heard back from him yet. Classic. And a blind date this weekend. I haven’t dated like this in 5 years, it’s fun

          My Valentine’s Day was awesome–big wonderful dinner with my parents, sisters and their spouses, and some close family friends. Great food, lots of laughs and love.

          I’m the happiest I’ve been in years right now. I have a new job I love, new apartment I love, I’m back in a city with tons of friends, my social life is great, I’m dating. I’ve lost some weight that has been hanging around stubbornly for a year. Things are just really good. I think you attract good things when you are happy. I’m excited for what else might come my way

          Did you have a good Valentines Day?

          • TryingHard February 19, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

            YAYAYAYAY—Much better 🙂
            You go girl!!!!

            • OHC February 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm #


          • Strengthrequired February 19, 2015 at 5:02 pm #

            Ohc, that is exactly what we want for you, happy and enjoying life. Good on you for the weightloss. I too believe you attract good things when your happy. Keep going up and up…

            • Strengthrequired February 19, 2015 at 5:04 pm #

              Ohc, look at all these prospective men your going on dates with. Yay for the third date. I know you will find the one for you, but at least your enjoying yourself until you do. How exciting.

              • OHC February 19, 2015 at 5:14 pm #

                I agree, all about having a good attitude and being open to new people and experiences

  29. SoManyTears February 19, 2015 at 1:30 pm #

    I have agonized over whether or not my CH has real love for the OW. Since I discovered the affair, that lasted 15 months, I’ve uncovered many things. For one, the OW has been the OW for 40 years. My CH and I have only been married for 11 years. He cheated on his first wife 39 years ago with her and many of his other relationships over the years. Is that real love? Sadly, she thinks so. He does not. To him, she’s someone he can easily use over and over again. She lets him. She gets power thinking she has some kind if hold on him because he keeps coming back. He’s had many opportunities to marry her or have a public relationship with her, but won’t. Why not? Because she’s only a nasty little secret. My CH keeps her playing the game by telling her all the things she wants to hear. He tells her he loves her and things just never seem to work out for them to be together. She eats it up. She pines away thinking they’ve always belonged together. She posted, on her Facebook, that the worst kind of love is when you love them, they still want you, but circumstances won’t let you be together. She has recently been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer of the spine. So sad. If my CH REALLY loved her, he would leave to be at her side. He will not. Think she realizes it’s all just been a game yet? No. She’ll go to her grave believing they had a great love. I’m ashamed of my CH’s actions. I could never do such a thing to another human being. I have no pity for the OW, however, because she allowed it. At one point, others in her circle, knew what was going on between my CH and her. She told them, “No big deal, this won’t hurt me…this will only hurt her and him” (meaning me and my CH). She was right. Both my CH and I completely agree that he wouldn’t have done this with anyone else but her. She was like a bad habit. He has to live with his bad choices. She is dying with hers. Real love is two sided NOT one sided. Yes, she truely loves him, but it’s only an illusion…a fantasy, because he doesn’t really love her back.

    • TryingHard February 19, 2015 at 2:02 pm #


      Who knows if he loves her or not. Maybe yes maybe no. Only HE really knows that answer. He certainly doesn’t know how to act lovingly. As you said he could have been with her after his first marriage and didn’t. HHHMMM why not??? I think he just likes having a sure thing on the side. If he made her legit he’d have to go looking for someone else and that would be just too much trouble.

      Tears, he likes the secret. He thrives on the secret, he’s getting something over on you. Very passive/aggressive. Who knows, hold over Mommy issues, family of origin issues? Who knows. Unless he gets a lot of psychiatric help he won’t know either and he doesn’t sound too introspective enough to do that.

      Your questions should be What do YOU want? What kind of relationship/life can YOU accept given what you know? 40 years?? She’s a freaking habit like cigarettes or cocaine. Love has nothing to do with it in my opinion. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them–Maya Angelou. Once you quit glossing over what they’ve done and put the responsibility of your own choices to stay you will quit asking those questions and find peace.

  30. TryingHard February 19, 2015 at 2:03 pm #

    Also, she has stage 4 cancer?? So does the OW that interferred in my life. Bad things happen to good people and bad things happen to awful people. That’s life. Too bad so sad, sucks to be her. You’ve got bigger fish to fry taking care of yourself than worrying about her. Don’t. She sucks!

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