microphone Once again it’s our monthly feature where our discussion is completely open to whatever you want to talk about.   So far these ‘Open Mic’ discussions have been quite popular and for that, we thank you!

This is Open Mic #10 and we hope that there are some things that are going on that you can share with everyone.

So…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small.
  • Got a question?  Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • How’s your summer going thus far?
  • Any suggestions for future topics?

Please don’t be shy.  If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

 

 

See also  Discussion - Your Experiences With Marriage Counseling

    92 replies to "Open “Mic” Discussion #10"

    • Doug

      Since this month’s open discussion is off to a slow start, I guess I will start things off. As I write this it’s about 6AM on Thursday and we’re getting ready to head out of town for a few days to the great state of Michigan. The impetus for the trip is a Queen concert on Saturday in Auburn Hills (Detroit area) so we thought we’d go up a few days early and check out Holland, MI. We’ve heard some good things about the place from our neighbors, so what the heck.

      For those of you who aren’t familiar with Queen, they were a very popular band in the 70s and 80s. Some of their hits were “We are the Champions” and “Bohemian Rhapsody”. They kind of faded away once their lead singer, Freddy Mercury died but have recently signed on Adam Lambert who was an American Idol star a few years ago. Word has it that Lambert does a great job of sounding much like Mercury. Here’s their site in case you’re interested: http://www.queenonline.com/

      Anyways, Linda enjoys some of the band’s lesser known songs and when we saw they were touring, we said “What the hell.” Detroit was the closest they come to us, so that’s where we’re headed. Should be a good time!

      • tryinghard

        Doug

        How fun! My H and I love concerts. We go to them all the time. We went to a Bruno Mars concert last week and I think we may have been the oldest people there:) I love Queen and Freddy Mercury. I hope Adam doesn’t disappoint. So what if he does? Still fun! You cool kids enjoy.

      • Cherry

        ire life.
        SoManyTears
        Junior Member

        Registered: 07/24/14
        Posts: 1
        This is MY story… My husband and I have been incredibly happily married for 10 years (together 11). Lots of satisfying sex. Seriously, never a problem. Lots of fun times and a wonderful life together. I KNOW I met his emotional AND sexual needs and he agrees. Then a woman from his past moved 3 blocks away from us. She’d had a hard life and had just lost her husband to cancer. She herself was recovering from anal cancer and had to endure a colostomy bag. She was on disability, taking care of her sick elderly mother, raising her nieces 2 preteen kids and was extremely obese (over 300 lbs). My husband admitted that they had fooled around they were both in their teens, but he’d been a horrible alcoholic and never remembered having sex with her…only waking up next to her on a few occasions. I watched her walk past our house for nearly a year, ignoring my husbands suggestion to go walking with her for health purposes. I am thin, but needed to move more as heart disease runs in my family. When I did give in, my husband made a track in our pasture so that she and I could avoid traffic and walk safely. She came to walk with me daily for over a year. Shortly after she began frequenting our home, my husband began complaining of fatigue and back pain. This caused a considerable decline in our sexual relationship. Since he is in his 50’s and had a previous back injury, I didn’t think too much of it. Then, about a year later, he began finding fault with me and became argumentative. I asked why he was acting so different, but he had no answer. Well, one morning he asked me to teach him how to forward a YouTube video to his brother’s messages and BAM! I found a text between her and him. It said enough that I printed out the latest phone record. Just that month alone, there were 3,000 texts! I looked back in the records and discovered a 15 month long affair with over 43,000 texts, 2,000 phone calls (sometimes 9 calls a day) and 80 pictures! I was devastated. I heard the “We’re just friends” line from BOTH of them, but I found out otherwise. Seems this is the same woman he committed adultery with while he was married to his first wife 37 years ago. He also had sex with her behind several of his girlfriends backs. My husband has been sober for 25 years! He did this SOBER! They BOTH swear there was no sex this time because of me! However, he begged her for it constantly and asked her to come to the house when I wasn’t home. This sober man sent her pictures of his penis!! She has told me that she loves him and wishes they could be together, but he says he’s never loved her and loves me. As far as I can tell, they stopped contact one year ago, the day after they got caught. My world has been shattered. They told me it was just a game. He says he only wanted her to THINK he wanted her. Says he felt sorry for her. Then he tells me, when he brought up the subject of having an affair, she said “NO”, which made him very mad and, he says, made him try even harder to get her to say yes. I think it’s a bunch of lies! He says he can’t remember most of it and cannot come up with any reason why he did it, other than he just wanted to. He started the whole mess! He can only say he just wanted to mess with her head. I do not understand! We live in a very small town and if you asked anyone who he’d ever mess around on me with…they ALL say her! What does this mean? He’s free to go, but he says he doesn’t want her and nothing they did was important to him. What? They never missed one day of communication in those 15 months. Every morning he texted her, “Good morning Sweetheart” and every night, “Goodnight, babe, sweet dreams”. He texted her while he and I were out on dates! He began to feel out his family by mentioning her to them. He even invited her to family functions where we’d all sit together! She’s told me she thinks it was just an “ego” thing for him and if they would have slept together, it would have only been once. What? I think she meant something to him and still does! I don’t think I’ll ever heal from this! Why would a happily (he was!) married man let his past bring him down? Why would he cheat on most all his relationships with the SAME woman throughout his entire life? Why? I can’t get past thinking they are lying about not having sex…I mean, come on, 15 months of begging? I’m considering a polygraph test, to which he’s agreed. What do you think? Why did he do this?

        • OnTheFence

          Cherry – Very sorry about the devastating blow. I’m not sure I could get over that as well, especially if the marriage was good. He has a huge character flaw that you obviously did not recognize earlier in the relationship. Not sure if your going to learn the truth between either of them and including the polygraph test. You need to go with your gut on what kind of man this is and make that decision for yourself. I think the phone records are enough proof of a marriage betrayal. Tough and painful stuff and again sorry this happened to you. I hope he opens up and is honest with you about the affair soon so you decide if you want to save the relationship. My husband had an emotional affair for about 2 months, but then told me about it. Our marriage (18yrs and 3 kids) was not in the best shape for about 2 yrs prior, but I didn’t feel anywhere near this point. If it would have ended right there and then, I could have gotten past it quicker, but he wanted to leave me. I just couldn’t believe it. The oa was much younger too, so this didn’t help matters or my ego. I ended up having the guts to encourage him to leave and explore this other life he wanted, but he wouldn’t go. I told him that I ultimately don’t want to be with someone that doesn’t truly want to be with me. What a miserable way to live. I guess what I”m saying is we all need to look deep inside of ourselves to see if this is the right person for us and not cling onto something that maybe best to let go. I’m still not sure and it’s not fun living this way. Ripping my family apart is a big move and I want to make sure to take the time to evaluate all my options. You have options too although very hard for you to see right now. Be strong and take care of yourself.

    • EyesOpened

      I love Queen – you two sound like you’re having a great time together 🙂

      I’ve been flicking through some old posts and found ‘Inthemiddleofit’ – the guy who was mid affair and on the fence. His posts were so honest and interesting to read – would be so good to know what became of him? He clearly did love his wife – as the ONLY complaint he had was about the lack of sex – which he found elsewhere . It’s so revealing to look back at old posts with a new, enlightened point of view and interesting to see the difference in current posters comments too (including mine)!!!

      Doug – I have a personal question for you… Where do you escape to now (in your head) when everything gets a bit much or you feel down ? Did you replace your addiction or just get it out of your system when you came out of the fog ?

      I feel scared to loose myself in my own thoughts because it makes my h nervous. Even if I’m thinking about which room in the house to clean first – a moment of silence seems to cause my h to panic, and question what’s wrong.

      Have any bs’s got any advice as to how I can have stress- free me time without talking so I don’t cause distress? Are there particular behaviours that your CS displays that worry you? I read a out mobile phones so I leave mine alone away from me as much as poss but is there other stuff I might be doing that still scares him?!

      • Doug

        Hey EO, Hmmm…where do I escape to? Drugs, alcohol and gambling primarily…Just kidding. I really don’t have much issue with things getting a bit much or getting down. I’m generally a positive person and don’t feel overwhelmed that often. When those instances do occur I tend to pour myself into my work and meditate on things a little more. I also like to head out into nature and get away from whatever is stressing me out. I also like to have fun and be around people so that also helps lift my spirits if I’m feeling down. Hope that helps. Sorry to be kind of short but we’re packing up as I type!

      • forcryin'outloud

        EO – as a BS I have to say I feel for you here. I was so up in my H’s business for so long after the affair I’m surprised he didn’t explode. Well now that I think of it he did a few times.
        I can unequivocally say it’s the all consuming fear of being duped again or worst, still, that drives the questioning comments. I wish my H would have expressed how he was feeling about my constant invasion of his space. A sit down adult conversation holding my hands, expressing his love and how sorry he was, and explaining that every now and again we need some time to breathe our own air for no other purpose than decompressing from daily life. I have to say I would have still been wary but it would have been better than the tension filled micro explosions he would have about my constant vigil.

        As the BS spouse your trust in the relationship and in yourself is completely gone. You are operating on caveman/woman tendencies, on constant lookout for the next threat to your well being. For me reassurance from my spouse in word and deed along with time have been the only healer. But unfortunately I will never have a great trust in him again. It’s the long lasting remnant from betrayal.

      • theresa

        EO
        I have to thank you! The perspective of the other BS’s is beyond value. The gift of perspective from the other side of the coin, specifically from you and Doug is in the same stratosphere! While what you share may not always be “feel good” feedback, I know it’s honest and that is what is most important for me. (Unfortunately, I do not feel I get that from where I need it most. I am trying to fix my mistakes too. I can’t do that if I don’t know what they are.)
        If you decide to try, you take one step at a time. It’s only in looking back did I realize that without love, courage and empathy on both parts, success is not possible.
        I wanted him to hurt, but I never thought he would feel as bad as I did. Truthfully, I still don’t. But because of your courage, love and empathy, it’s closer than I thought.

    • EyesOpened

      Hey Doug – thank you – that’s actually really helpful to me! Hope you two have an amazing trip! And The Lord has definitely given you ‘Somebody to Love’ – so appreciate it! X

      FCOL – thank you – that’s something I’m going to take from this – hold his hands and look into his eyes – I haven’t done that in a while . Great advice with a step by step!! I really appreciate it. I bet your h doesn’t remember your explosions. When we can see WHY someone does something – it takes the mystery and hurt away a lot of the time. I’ve forgotten and forgiven any affair-reaction behaviour my h exhibited (the bad stuff) but all the good, admirable stuff he did is still there like it was yesterday .

      Thank you again. I hope you find true happiness, trust and contentment very very soon.

    • EyesOpened

      Fcol – just realised you said HE exploded. Sorry! Either way – whatever made him angry at those times – I’m sure will be long forgotten … So maybe you shouldn’t have shadowed him … So maybe he shouldn’t have had an affair!!!

      I am living my punishment daily – I so don’t blame my my h for his fear and reaction – I just don’t want to do anything else to exacerbate it.

      • exercisegrace

        HI Eyes! You definitely need and deserve some down time by yourself. Maybe you could ask him what that (for now) could look like for him. For example, he may not want you going off by yourself, phone in hand. But spending time alone reading would be good? The sight of my husband outside or off by himself, tapping away on his phone still doesn’t feel great to me. He tries to be respectful of that, and we usually manage to find a workable middle ground.

        I must admit I cringed a little when I read “I am living my punishment daily”. I don’t know about your husband, but that is NOT how I want my husband to feel. I don’t want our marriage to feel like a prison sentence or a punishment to be endured (these are my words, not yours). I want him to WANT to have different boundaries, be more transparent with his life, and have greater accountability in his life and in our married life. I am totally fine with doing the same in his direction. Many times he WANTS a punishment. He wants to “do” something or for me to exact some “price” so it can be over and done with. Unfortunately, that isn’t how it works. He cheated. He showed a capability, under the right circumstances, to cast his entire life aside for stupidity. Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but I will NEVER trust him to the same blind, total level I did pre-affair. I DO trust him, and that is building. But it will forevermore be a verified trust. I don’t often feel the need to check anything, but if I do? i don’t feel bad about it, and I make no apologies. This is the world he lives in. The world HIS choices reaped. And while I am being blunt, I have also told him that even if he left me tomorrow? He would have trust issues with any future relationship. If he could cheat on me after two decades of marriage and four kids, it could happen with anyone. ANd they would know that.

        Again, this is in NO WAY meant to bash you or him. He looks at my phone and email at times. It is not an issue. I have never, EVER misused either one. We just have a new normal. It’s not a punishment and although it frustrates him occasionally, he understands and truly is ok with it. I need some sense of safety to stay. He needs some sense of accountability so this never catches him again. Because he is destroyed by what he did. I hear that in your voice too. Needing space is fine. Let it open up some good conversation that maybe the two of you have never had. Blessings my friend! You will be fine.

      • forcryin'outloud

        No sorry needed. Looking back the explosions were the only way he knew how to handle it. My H hates dealing with his intimate feelings – he has almost zero communication skills in this vain. His entire family operates under that notion.

        When you say daily punishment I am assuming it’s self induced. My H mentioned the same condition for the first couple of years but he did say a few months back he rarely feels that way anymore. I think it’s a gauge as to how remorseful you feel about your actions. It may not be a bad thing but don’t let it become a definition as to who you are because you wouldn’t be here so openly if you didn’t deeply care about your H and your relationship. Like my H you are a good person who got caught up in some bad choices. Throw yourself a bone sweetie!

    • tryinghard

      Hi EO

      Can’t stand admitting this but yeah I squirmed A LOT when he would get all quiet. Worse is The Sigh. “What’s up, what’s wrong, what are you thinking??” UGH what a loser reaction.

      Here’s a thought. How about you sit down and TELL your H that you don’t think of “him” anymore and when you do it’s in disgust. That when you are quiet that you are sometimes sorting things out in your mind and it may even be related to your relationship but maybe not. That you ARE aware that he may be thinking “..oh crap, she’s thinking of him”.

      So yes, we BS’s pretty much want to get in your heads and get to the real truth. Of course we jump to sometimes the wrong conclusion. Totally unrealistic I know but we too are probably not being very rational at the time either 🙂 When you believed was true is/was not true at all, you tend to hold on to that to insuring you won’t be fooled again.

      Funny thing is EO when I get silent my H gets all nervous trying to get in my head. Wants to know what I’m thinking, etc. I swear I think he still thinks I’m going to leave him. That’s ok, he should think that 🙂

      This healing stuff is long and tedious and arduous for all of us but, at least for me, the end finally coming!

      • exercisegrace

        Good answer TH. My husband and I are sometimes nervous in each others’ silences. Often that silence is necessary for processing. He doesn’t need to hear all my triggers or how I am fending off another mind movie. I don’t always need to hear about his guilt and shame. Although we at times, do talk about all of that and more.

    • tryinghard

      EO and EG

      Gosh you two just made me think about something and I need your advice.

      EG, yes I feel the same way. I’m really pretty sick of hearing about the guilt and shame although it is necessary for him to feel that. I also hold back as I need to sort things out in my own mind. I also take that time to “evaluate” whether or not the question needs to be asked. OK here’s what’s curious. Sometimes I feel lately that HE wants me to bring the subject up. So weird since he spent most of the early months trying to shut me up about it. I think part of it may be because we are farther down the road and he knows I’m not going to blow and get all crazy mad. We can talk rationally about it. Heck sometimes we even can laugh….UGH NOT funny!

      So yes I will read something or something will occur to me and I think,by God I’m going to ask him or say it, and then I wait and I just don’t. But guess what that doesn’t mean it doesn’t come to my mind again.

      So how long do YOU wait, or how do you judge the importance of what you need to discuss? Sometimes I think I just don’t want to disturb the peace and damn it then I never say it or bring it up. UGH I’m such a loser!!!! LOL I guess I need to take my own advice and freaking talk to him.

      How do you guys handle it because I think we are in the same time frame.

      Thanks Angels!

      • exercisegrace

        TH. Well that is an interesting question, and one that reflects true healing. In the early days, I would ask anything I wanted, anytime I wanted. I vividly remember shouting at him through the bathroom door a time or too! Nothing and nowhere were sacred. My sense of entitlement to my answers knew NO bounds! And that was fine for that stage of the game. As time passed, I was able to hold my questions (ok, it was more like interrogation….the KGB has nothing on me!) for better times. For awhile we set a certain time of the day for discussing things. Then I was able to only ask once or twice a week. Progress. Healing. Baby steps.

        So now, two years out from d-day? I ask far fewer questions, because for the most part I have had my answers. You are VERY right. They do still pop into my head. When one does, I first run it through a few filters. 1. Why do I want to know this? 2. What do I intend to do with the answer? 3. What will I gain or lose by having the answer? 4. Is it really relevant to the life I am living TODAY? In other words, will the answer change something I am doing or a decision I am getting ready to make? Will it impact how I am living my life *right now*. Because I try hard to avoid living *back there*. 5. I try to write the question down in my journal, so I can see it in black and white. NOW here comes the hardest part. I force myself to wait a minimum of 24 hours. Then I go to the journal and read the question to myself. For some reason, seeing it written out gives me more perspective. Sometimes just the act of writing it out (sometimes along with why I think I want to know) is simply enough. When I pass the cooling off period, I no longer need to ask. I rip the page out and burn it up in the fireplace, as I do with some of my rant-y, rage-y entries!! Sometimes, I do go ahead and ask the question along with my explanation. Because the time has passed, I am not in the heat of the emotion or more likely trigger, that brought the question to mind in the first place. This makes for a better discussion. He can see that I am asking in a calm, considered manner so he feels less threatened and he is more likely to be agreeable to having a discussion.

        Hope that helps, sorry to run on!

    • EyesOpened

      Hello lovely TH! My h and I went out for dinner tonight and I asked if he still has triggers. He says no – and all is well… …??

      I’ve been saying for a long time that any thoughts of the ap are negative and that the affair itself was based on two broken people trying to fix themselves using one another as a prop – a hypocritical mess and disaster. I’ve assured my h that if my ap were the last person on earth that we would not talk to one another – it’s past. It’s illusion . It’s over. I think he knows that.

      What I THINK. He’s thinking is… Is she going to leave me? Is she in it for the long run? I have assured him I am here to stay, and try to demonstrate it – but honestly – who can ever say forever???? On the flip side – as with your situation TH – I often wonder how long he will put up with this shit for? We saw our counsellor last week and he said to her ‘ EO reads her website (this one ) and reads about the difficulties others are having then assumes the same will happen to us … Ie she reads betrayed spouses often start to think … Why am I with this CS? I could have a much better life without them. Or she reads that people have finally left their CS and are much happier ‘ … He then said to the counsellor that I Then think he’s going to give up on me and he feels it’s detrimental to our recovery…… I argued that I read this site to truly understand and feel the pain I’ve caused and work as best I can to fix it… It’s helped me so much.

      Our counsellor said that she feels I have never taken time to be selfish ( I can hear you all laughing now ….) – she suggested that I should practice mindfulness (enjoying moments in the present ) and that i should enjoy that peace …

      I’ve gone off on a tangent …..

      Anyway – my h and I enjoyed a nice meal and a chat – I just need to find my lost mojo and the world will be a better place !!! I really am trying everso hard ( honest)! And he does appreciate it. I just need to learn what normal is – and how to recognise it!

      Thank you TH as always – I AM going to send you an email one day soon xx

      EG – I didn’t mean staying was punishment – I just meant the not knowing what my h is feeling and my feelings of anxiety are my just desserts for my behaviour – but you r insightful words have given me food for thought – I need to tip my boat to a positive keel ! My h keeps saying ‘forget all the sh1t and let’s just be happy now ‘ they’re fantastic words but whenever we have a disagreement the affair raises it’s ugly head in one subtle way or another . It’s those moments where I want to give up and say ‘ ok just shoot me now’ – sometimes it feels no matter how hard I try – how much time passes , how many improvements I make – it will never go away. I do keep envisaging myself a lonely old spinster with only myself to blame !

      Meanwhile my h has been very active and struck up a secret Email conversation dialog for 4 months with another woman – he said ‘if my w is to be believed I didn’t behave well but basically she doesn’t want to sleep with me ‘ . He asked her for lunch at a secluded restaurant and said he’d pay her train fayre etc…- and has also been sending out ‘love me and say nice stuff to me ‘ signals to female work colleagues… I can’t blame him – but it does set back our healing – it tells me once again that lack of sex means everything to him – and I feel like we are going round in a viscous circle ….I’m not jealous – just cross that he’s repeating mistakes I’ve made but that we have both learned about … Our counsellor agreed he overstepped the mark and he’s been inappropriate on emails to colleagues. I’m saying ‘it’s fair ! I was a cow – so why wouldn’t he do this ?’ It’s what I’m expecting !

      He says he’ll stop but I just wonder why he doesn’t just call it a day??? Why say he loves me and he cares and he’s in it for the long run. – then jeopardise it? Drives me nuts. – the whole darn thing!

      Sorry I’ve had wine … So rambling on ! Thank you as always – you wonderful people .

      • exercisegrace

        EO…..NO NO NO NO NO NO. NO. It is NOT fair. Just because you made a mistake, does not give him the right to make the same one. Whatever he feels that he is missing, he does NOT have the right to seek it from another woman. He needs to get more counseling, give it more time or get out. Trust me on this one. As a betrayed spouse, that is a line I WILL NEVER CROSS. I know exactly where it would go. I am NOT entitled to cheat just because he did. Wrong is wrong. Period.

        Your therapist should be telling him to cut that crap out. YOU should be telling him those are boundaries you will not tolerate him crossing. He is either in this marriage until recovery or he is out. Flirting with another woman, making plans with another woman will only lead to disaster. It is CERTAINLY NOT going to help your marriage.

      • theresa

        EO, sports had been a big part of our lives, in more than one event. We have all had disagreements with the officials. Some will even admit a mistake. And the game goes on. It’s not uncommon to hear “he owes us one”, or “we’ll get the next call”.
        Here’s the thing, the game goes on, and if the official is watching for the opportunity to pay it back, calling something close the wrong way, he’s wrong twice.

    • EyesOpened

      Th – will answer tomorrow but for now – I want my h to know every sordid detail so there are no more secrets. He doesn’t want to know ! Never has -so I’d love him to bring it up so it’s out there and not rotting inside me – but he doesn’t want to know – and I have no right to tell him – it’s what I was saying before – horrible green poison that needs to come out!!!!

    • Tryinghard

      EO

      OH HELL NO!!! Crap I was getting a pedicure when your post came in and I gasped out loud! WTF is he thinking???? Seriously? Ok here’s something really eerie because I swear to God I think I’m developing ESP.

      So the other day you came to mind. Out of the blue it came to my mind wondering if your husband had ever cheated on YOU. And then this comes in. I’m not saying your affair was justified, no way. That was a bad choice. Your relationship may have been damaged and going outside of it was not the answer. So ok NOW you know that. Girlfriend, give yourself a break on that. You screwed up, end of story. Now take your affair out of it and now he thinks having an EA is the answer. OY vey! Has he learned nothing in all this? Now yes sex is very important in a marriage, you know that. And I would venture to say I’m probably older than you and I guess since I was denied for so long because I thought the lying jackass was having erectile dysfunction, fuck, where was my ESP then???, I’m making up for lost time. I swear I could have sex every night! Who says women reach their sexual peak at 30? So if you want your mojo back, GET YOUR FUCKING MOJO BACK!! Go get some sexy panties and bras and start having sex. Yeah I used to be scared about asking what I wanted in bed. Now, HA I expect it. Just try it for a week. Just do it. I don’t care if you have to fantasize about Ryan Gosling, just do it. See what happens.

      Yeah that spewing the green poison. Maybe it would be better if you wrote it all out and then burn it. And little sister you DONT deserve this bullshit he’s doing now. Now maybe you don’t care that he’s having inappropriate relationships at work and on line but that’s a different subject and one that really needs examining.

      Doug you can send EO my email address privately. EO you can email me whenever you like. Screw him he doesn’t like you conversing with us. We are here to support you and him and hopefully help.

      Sending hugs to you my friend.

    • gizfield

      As soon as I read what Eyes Opened wrote about her husband cheating I thought “Trying Hard has got this”, lol, and you did.

      My husband always tried to minimize HIS cheating by bringing up my past, 20 odd years ago, at least ten years before I even MET him. I dont think so, buddy. They all seem to try that if you have ever done anything. Don’t let him get away with it.

      It’s been so busy lately. My girl has been at Girl Scout Camp since Sunday. We go get her tomorrow. :~) Can’t wait to kiss that sweet little face.

    • Strengthrequired

      EO, your h needs his head read, my goodness, he of all people know the pain a ea/pa causes, if he wants his marriage to work with you, then he needs to concentrate on making the marriage work and leave all those inappropriate behaviours alone.
      I will say though, I would love to have someone show me attention, show me love, apart from my h, and no, not as payback for what my h did to me, but just to feel special, or important to someone else. Yet I won’t act on it at all, and I’m also not out looking either, just couldn’t bring myself to be with anyone else apart from my h. Hasn’t stopped me though just wondering. I think with my thinking about what I have been thinking, is just me wanting to feel what my h felt, me feeling like I’m not nothing, I’m not the second choice, and I’m not so terrible that no one would look at me. Just to have that person show me they care. I know my h will fill that void I have, I just need to see what life is like with him all over again, like we used to before it came into the picture. Two years, two and a half years if you include before my move, of really having an abscent h, I need to see the real changes my h has made, and they will shw when we are all together like a proper family.
      I think when that happens, in just another 3 weeks time, things will look differently for me, and with any luck I will start feeling that I am important to the person I want it from most of all, my h.
      Go get that mojo of yours back honey, don’t let any ow get their hooks into your h. You haven’t come this far through your recovery, to let someone else waltz right in.

    • EyesOpened

      TH – I hear you!! And EG…yelling at me all the way over the pond. Ryan Gosling ! Lol.

      Funnily enough Gizfield I’m picking up my girl from Scouts right now – waiting for them to come out 🙂

      I think SR’s explanation of how she feels is EXACTLY how my h feels – he just needs someone to adore and desire him right now – and I’m failing miserably. I love him, appreciate him, care beyond belief – but that on-fire passion is missing and he misses it.

      I need to read some naughty paperbacks – still laughing at Ryan gosling ! Sure he could be my grandson ! I’m 45 years young by the way TH.

      We did go through all this with our counsellor – she said she was v proud of the way I handled a potential relationship killer! Honestly though – having read all of his conversation with this 30 year old broken girl (he’s 54) – it was textbook !!! She wasn’t into him and he was virtually begging her to adore him. She offered advice on our marriage and ‘soothed’ whilst he wrote that we’d argued and he couldn’t with out whether to stay or not…. It was like reading a story . The worst bit was – only 2days before he wrote that we had a massive row and he said he was in this forever and couldn’t live without me!! He left his page open on the computer by accident and I read the whole conversations (on Fb chat not email as I said previously ). He hadn’t deleted anything which makes me think he wanted me to see it all…. He said she looked beautiful in her fb photos, and he’d love to share wine and lunch with her – she kept asking him to talk but seemed to want what he could offer her professionally – she wasn’t crossing the line but was encouraging him to… At work he’s been sending ‘shall we have lunch’ ‘shall we get together for a drink’ texts to about 5 women – all with loads of kisses (unusual behaviour) and big public compliments on their photos on fb etc .. So my assumption is he is coming out of one phase and entering into another . He swears he wouldn’t jeopardise our recovery and says he’ll stop all flirting emails and messages – but I am bemused at his behaviour – I think he’s had enough and is moving on but just not telling me !!!

      I’ve raised it with him and he says it’s all innocent but I know it’s to get a reaction. It just annoys me!!! He said the 4 month chat was ‘his secret ‘ because I had one. I know I should be feeling angry – I just feel exasperated and like I can’t be bothered to try.

      TH – for some reason I need you to know I am ‘doing the deed’ – just not very often (around every 2 weeks now) – I’m just not interested . After reading Doug’s post on the peri menopause – I’m starting to wonder if I’m going through that!!

      Oh joie de vivre!!

      You have made me really laugh tonight incidentally – thank you !!!

    • Strengthrequired

      EO, I felt I needed to share how I have been feeling with you, which is why I mentioned it. I too wondered if that was how your h felt. I think it was possible that your h left it open so you would see it intentionally. Maybe hoping it would reignite that passion he has for you. Maybe he thinks that the lack of dtd has something to do with him, or possibly that someone rose is on your mind. It is hard after being a bs, to accept that you really are desired and loved by your cs, and that they really aren’t still yearning for their lost love.
      We saw the lies unravel right in front of us, and that memory is hard to erase and to be able to replace it with trust. I don’t think it is impossible, I think just takes some longer than others.
      I think for me, because I have not been with my h everyday, through our recovery, trust has taken longer to take place, and running on blind faith to what’s truth and what’s lie. That’s why I’m hoping once I move, I will be able to see on a more constant basis everything my h is doing to make amends, like everyone else here who is still with their cs, and able to see the trust starting to return.
      Honestly if my h was to deny me of his attention, of dtd, etc when he was home, I am sure I would be wondering whether he was still with the ow and also whether he was still thinking of her, and whether I was just there for the sake of not breaking our family, as well as whether he really did love me or was just saying it.
      My h does all the right things when he is home, my issue ATM is me being able to trust him when he isn’t. Yet as I said, it will change.
      I believe the reason for me wanting to feel like I am wanted, needed, and desirable by someone else, is just so I know I still have it, and my h should worry that someone else is able to show me, what he should have shown me instead of his ow. I want my h to hold tight onto me, without me fearing his family getting in between us again, which is probably another reason I fantasies about having someone else who is far away from my h family, after 23 years I feel over his families disrespect of me and our children, and to have my h finally surrender to one of their attempts to remove me from his life, just has me imagine what life would be like without them in my life, and let me tell you, my fantasies are peaceful. Lol
      Yet they are fantasies, as the love I have for my h out weighs me wanting someone else, I could never put him through what he put me through, and nor do I ever want put my children through that mess again, just isn’t something I want to do. They have suffered enough.

      So I somehow don’t believe that your h is looking for his way out of your marriage, I think he is wanting you to be closer, that you can show him that you can fight for him and his love, that you find him irresistible, but make him feel like he is. I know it seems like hard work, but honestly it isn’t, showing someone you love them should be easy, don’t forget, we witnessed out cs, show someone else all the attention, all the love, all the affection, that we were supposed to have, so in a way we feel robbed of that, we want some of what was offered so easily to someone else.
      So EO, make sure you nip your h ea’s in the butt now, you have come so far in your recovery to let this set you back. Start seeing a happy future with your h, and start laughing with him and make some new memories that helps bring that passion, and maybe have a talk to your h, about how you feel, and that there is a chance that the change has started for you.
      Let him know that he is desirable to you.
      I thinking of you EO, take care and maybe even put more prawns (hehe) in your diet and romantic dinners with your h, that set the mood. It’s hard with young children, but really try and make the time for them.

    • Tryinghard

      EO
      Well thank God you are! Twice a month would have me crawling the walls. Seriously though I think our sex lives have ebbs and flows. I do know the less you are out of it the less important it is to you. We all have demanding lives and responsibilities but you MUST prioritize being intimate with your partner. No passion isn’t suddenly going to show up if you aren’t being intimate on a regular basis. Especially for men. They need it regularly. They feel unsure about their masculinity and wonder if they are pleasing you. More like at least twice a week at the very least EO, IMHO :).

      I started my peri menopause at your age and during a time in my life when it was very easy to put sex on the back burner. Bad habit we got into. You know life is short, so don’t waste it. I’ve got a new found passion with regards to sex. Yeah his affair was a catalyst but reading all the books on affairs and the importance of a close emotional and intimate sex life I’ve become educated and I’ve put my own passion into it. Heck I’m just grateful my knees and back have held out this long that I can. I’m going to use it till I lose it! I’m never giving up my sex life again. It’s like playing the piano, the more you do it the better you are and thanks to Youtube I’ve got many new tricks to use, if you know what I mean:).

      Don’t do it to please him or think that it’s helping your marriage because all that falls into place if you do it for your own pleasure. Trust me NOT having sex brings on all kinds of old lady symptoms that you don’t want! 45 yeah I’ve got 15 years on you! Ugh yep turning 60 this year, ugh, fuck me where did the time go??? I’m telling you I can pick the women out in a crowd who are and aren’t having sex. Don’t do it, it’s a bad habit.

      Yeah I think your husband is dabbling in dangerous waters to pimp you. Scare you maybe but he probably is lonely and wondering if he’s still got it too. You need to assure him he does. Sex shows men you appreciate them. Weird I know, they are such Neanderthals ! Yeah he wanted you to find those emails/texts. Poor guy sounds like he’s getting desperate. I feel for him. And his age doesn’t help matters either as this is a time they start going through physical changes too.

      I guess it all comes down to what you want. But quit the questioning of why doesn’t he just leave me. Try asking yourself why you are staying and make the change for yourself. Maybe you should check with your Doc your hormone levels too. Worth a try.

      Hugs to you EO.

    • Broken2

      I trusted him again. I stopped looking for another betrayal and stopped waiting for him to screw up again. My husbands affair had our recovery had come full circle. We were gonna live happily ever after in our new and better marriage. Then last Thursday after catching him an omission of something we agreed upon my gut kicked in. I looked at his email and in the spam folder I found correspondence between him and a girl from craigslist. He said call me at work and he gave her his personal work number, he said call Monday I can meet you or we can just talk….attached was a picture of her……topless. Of course when I confronted him he started out with the usual what are you looking at my email but soon melted into a puddle of man mush. This time around I am different, this time I am wiser, this time life is about me. Weirdly I don’t feel anger, I feel sad and hurt for a man I love that is sick. AM I done? I told him we could go to joint counseling but that it was for him. We recovered our own marriage, we unfortunately didn’t recover him.

    • Broken2

      I have been in college for almost a year now and I graduate in 3 semesters. I am a straight A student at the age of 55. I don’t need his BS anymore and I am not going to give up myself at his expense. I told him I will think about it for awhile but I reminded him that after the last time I said if he ever did it again our marriage is over. He said he is sick and requires validation from other people. That’s not me, that’s him. His behavior is his own and it always has been so if anyone tells you your spouses affair was because of something you did or didn’t do……its a lie. He says its nothing like his 18 month EA just a moment of weakness, to me its the same.

    • Tryinghard

      Broken 2

      I am so sorry this is happening again to you. This is my greatest nightmare. All I can say is hooray for your gut. Glad you responded to your red flags and at least this time you’re not caught by surprise. The only real indicator of future behavior is past behavior and unfortunately for those who don’t do the personal work to change that old adage of once a cheater always a cheater is true. Sounds like he just can’t help himself. He just wants to continue being a creep till he dies! Nice.

      No you don’t need to put up with it. You’ve given him every chance and sometimes we just have to face the truth. They can’t change cause they won’t change. But you can. Good for you getting your degree and straight A’s. Don’t quit, but now what? Three semesters is a year and a half. I can’t really believe there’s any more MC that can help you guys, especially when he won’t stop doing his bullshit. Do you think he’s a sex addict?

      I’m so sorry and I’m keeping you in my best thoughts and prayers.

      • Broken2

        TH no he isn’t a sex addict. He is just a jerk. Now what is that I will finish school and then go from there. I really am doing great….I am not angry just disappointed in him. I told him I would try MC and I will but that’s it. He can stay away from me as I am not interested anymore. Life is about me now. I will just stay here until I am done. He can go on craigslist or whatever he wants because I am done and when a woman gives up on her marriage…its over. He is a serial cheater. This behavior in some form has been a part of my life forever. Loving someone should be just a tad easier. He just figured if our marriage was better he was automatically better…not how it works. Thanks for the prayers….take care.

        Our best friends are visiting this week so I am in pretend mode. He is squirming everyday as I told him I am not making any decisions until our friends leave. I got roses today

        • tryinghard

          Broken 2

          Yes it is all about you now. Let him run around and be nervous. He had his chance and blew it, big time. I bet you’d like to put those roses where the sun don’t shine. Really he thinks that’s going to help???

          I think you’re smart to stay put while you finish your degree. This will also give yourself time to totally disconnect from him. I always prayed during the early stages of reconciliation that if my marriage wasn’t meant to be that God would help me take the love I have for my husband out of my heart. Well your husband did God’s work for him.

          You are so right when a woman especially a betrayed woman is done, she’s done! You can be at peace that you did EVERYTHING to make your marriage and relationship work and all he did was act like a sophomoric gutter rat!

          We all here support each other no matter what the decision. To stay or to leave a relationship. Going back to the cheater when all he does is repeat the same destructive behavior is like beating your head against the wall.

          Study hard and keep making those A’s. Take care of yourself and just keep getting stronger. I’ll keep you in my best thoughts and prayers.

          • Broken2

            Thanks TH…..yes those roses would look good in his backside. It is so sad because our best friends are staying here for a week and with all of the rose giving and sucking up to me they keep commenting on what a wonderful couple we are. If they only knew… I would love to say…he is a model man and a serial cheater. I can count 4 woman now. oh wait that is 5 now including last weeks little slip up. Yes this outstanding man cheated with a coworker for 18 months and his newest quest is a hooker on craigslist…..he is going classy this time. But he gives roses and gropes all day at me like I am the best thing since sliced bread. Whata joke, When they leave Friday I deserve an academy award for best acting!!!!

    • EyesOpened

      Hey TH … SO glad my h doesn’t read your posts . Twice a week . It would kill me. I used to do it to keep him happy and prevent the moods (and get some sleep)! I resented having to though. I need to rewire my brain. I will get my hormones checked… But it is likely this is linked to some stuff in my past – Ironically, I need to fully trust my h and feel comfortable with him. I may get there one day but I think it’s not going to be a quick fix.

      60?! I bet you look 43. Just a hunch…? In my head you look like Halle berry – so now I have a picture of Halle berry using knees and back whilst watching YouTube with her hubby for inspiration !!!! lol – that’s impressive – wonder what’s going to happen in 9 years? :-0

      Anyway before we disappear off on an unsociable and potentially offensive tangent (if we haven’t already done so…) ….. Thanks for the advice! I’ll try harder!!!!

      • tryinghard

        EO

        Yeah, Halle Berry!! I like that someone sees me as her. I could only wish I did though 🙁 Quite the other end of the color wheel. Blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skinned, good shape and don’t act or dress like other 60 American women! Guess that’s my mother’s french influence!

    • EyesOpened

      SR

      You are such a lovely person.

      I KNOW you know this but I am going to say it to you and hope it resonates . I said it to my h recently too:

      You do not need your h or anyone else to make you feel good. That is totally in your power.

      You are totally awesome, kind, gentle, caring and full to the brim of compassion and love. You need to know and believe that. Once you do, and you no longer need verification from your h or anyone else – it will show on the outside.

      Be mysterious. Be confident. Don’t play games with your h but don’t ‘always be where he wants you to be’. He can’t miss you if you are always there, always pre emptiing his every want and desire.

      I find it difficult to breath sometimes – my h fills every quiet moment with an I love you or a compliment – and he is ALWAYS available – I feel pressured to respond and behave the same way. Sometimes I wish he wouldn’t be so ‘visible ‘ – there’s a certain thrill in having to put your make up on and smell good before someone says ‘you look nice’ – it loses its validity when you hear it so often…

      Anyway – why don’t you take the kids to a friend’s house or on a wonderful picnic and just enjoy and ‘be’. Let your h know what a wonderful time you had – let him know that you are happy in your own skin. You WANT him – but you don’t NEED him ( or anyone else ) no – one but you has that power. I remember you saying when I first started posting that if you needed to exist without him – you would … Hold that thought – YOU are amazing SR. YOU are allowing your h to stay with you. He is one lucky guy and he needs to earn that space in your life. If he doesn’t work for it ….. He absolutely should not reap the benefits of having his amazing wife and family there to support him.

      My h still says he needs me / can’t live without me etc etc – I know he means it as a compliment but it’s not…. You see whilst he. ‘Needs’ me – being with me and married to me is not a ‘choice’ for him. I want him to not ‘need’ me but just really really WANT me in his life because I enrich his life. It’s a subtle difference but it’s important to me .

      I hope that makes sense and isn’t offensive – thinking of you lots as you approach your move SR .

      • tryinghard

        SR

        I agree with everything EO told you. Yes you need a little mystery with them. Don’t be the first to always stroke his ego like you perceive the OW doing for him. If anything they need to be knocked down a few pegs. The OW gave them a false sense of their own Egos. It’s our job to bring them back to life.

        One morning as my H was getting dressed I kind of chuckled under my breath. Now my H is a handsome man BUT he could stand to lose a few pounds, is soft around the middle, is losing his hair, has hair growing in places it shouldn’t and has some pretty bad varicose veins on his legs thanks to a bad gene pool! Now I think he’s sexy and cute and appreciate him as my lover BUT he’s been my love since I was 18 years old. That’s what I see and appreciate. I laughed because I it occurred to me that had I not had so much history with him and loved him despite his aging looks and still see him as my young lover, I would NOT be turned on by his physical appearance!!! He had some nerve taking his clothes of in front of a perfect stranger. So I asked him, “Um weren’t you self-conscience taking your clothes off in front of a stranger?” He spun around and acted like I had shot him with a bullet and he said “NO, why would I?” I couldn’t believe my ears. So I guess she really poured it on thick OR as I have suspected, she was in it for the $$$$$. I know I gave him something to think about though. I just said, “Well you are aging and I don’t know if you’ve looked in the mirror lately, but you look reallly nice with your clothes on!”

        Yeah so, I don’t think my husband is expecting any fake ego building compliments from me.

        • Strengthrequired

          EO, Thankyou, I don’t see him enough, so he misses me more than he ever has. Probably helped wake him up at the beginning of last year. I will tell him what he means to me, but I won’t lie to him either. As for me wanting to feel important to him, that for me isn’t to feel good solely by him, but to know that he can put more of an effort into me than what he has especially now I have seen what he what he did for the ow. Of course it was all fantasy acting, yet doesn’t mean that he doesn’t put an effort into making me feel like I am worth the effort to him. I know I am worth the effort. Lol

          Th, you don’t have to worry there, i will tell my h what he means to me, heck the ow had him believe I didn’t, so I think me saying more often is a side effect of the betrayal. Yet I do think it will settle down eventually, maybe when it sinks in again.lol. Yet I also won’t lie to him. It’s funny you said that about your h, my h too has some extra cushioning since our time apart. He also started putting it on after she was out of the picture. He put a shirt on and asked if he was bigger as the arms in the shirt were shorter. He knows his gut is, but he thought he was mostly bloated, due to what I believe is ibs, brought on by all of the stress since the ea started. I said yes baby, you have put on weight, he was actually shocked that I told him he had.
          Yet he had told me that I am the only one he feels comfortable with completely. Which I said so he should.lol, as we have been together since I was 18, too, He never felt comfortable with her, and that he doesn’t understand why he did what he did with her, he doesn’t understand what happened because all he wanted to do was help her, as he felt sorry for her.
          So Thankyou lovelies, I know I will be fine and I do think i will feel better once I am back with my h properly. Fx anyway, hopefully I’m not a lost cause now, lol.

    • Gizfield

      So sorry to hear your husband is back to his old tricks, Broken 2. Unfortunately, it seems like when you trust them again is when they “show their ass” as my mother would say. I trusted my husband so many times, and that is when they betray you the most.

      Our daughter came home from camp yesterday, it’s really nice to have things back to normal. We rested all day then went bowling with some of her little friends tonight. My husband is playing music in a bar tonight. Ugh. I haven’t been to see him play since New Year’s Eve. I really hate him doing it. It’s the same place he invited his whore to watch him. He claims she never showed up, but I think he’s a liar. Truthfully, since it was before facebook was popular, there is no way I could prove it anyway. I do know I am at the stage where what he did, sneaking around with a whore, really disgusts me. I have decided that I can’t love anyone who sneaks around with whores behind my back. So if he dying, and I find out, he is gone.

      • Broken2

        Thanks Giz..isn’t it sad that when you think you can trust them the most they do this. I cant put up with the constant BS and I deserve better. WHat is wrong with people….uggggs

    • Gizfield

      Oops, auto correct, it should be “lying.”

    • Gizfield

      The last time I caught my husband in contact with his slag, I remember thinking “if the best I can hope for in my marriage is my husband sneaking around with a whore, I DO NOT want to be married,.” She can have his ass, I do not want him if it ever happens again. Ever.Like I said, it literally disgusts me.

    • Doug

      Calling all New Zealanders! We’ve been communicating with a betrayed spouse in your wonderful country who has no friends or family that she feels comfortable talking with and was hoping to connect with another New Zealander. I know there are many from your fine country who visit our site and if your willing to connect with a fellow country-person for advice and support, let me know and I can facilitate an email exchange and you can take it from there. Thanks!

    • Gizfield

      Nights like this make me wonder how ANYONE can stay married? All I wanted to do was watch the Bachelorette, lol. So, we are all in the living room, on the couch. I hear this strange noise. He is swishing oil around in his mouth, for about ten minutes. Eeew, I feel sick thinking about it. Maybe I’m just squeamish. Then he flosses his teeth. Then, he clips his nails. Thank god it was fingernails, not toenails. Then he put in a big wad of gum and was chomping it. It’s just all too much, lol. I’m sure I do disgusting stuff too but I just feel ill. Makes me want to make a video and send it to the girlfriend and say “Here you go”, lol. Am I weird or is anyone else like this? Dating has absolutely no correlation to marriage, seriously. I remember my daddy doing gross stuff and wondering how my mother could live with it.

      • Rachel

        Giz, lol!!!
        Swishing oil?
        My friends have said how they envy me not having to deal with the gross stuff.

        • Gizfield

          Rachael, it’s actually called Oil Pulling. It’s a natural technique that is supposed to pull toxins out of your mouth. It’s just gross to observe,, lol. My real point is that EVERYONE has nasty habits. Which are not revealed til you live with someone. I bet each of us could make a list of at least 20 “Gross Things You Don’t Know About Your Soulmate” for the cheaters, lol.

    • Gizfield

      I think I understand why people have affairs, or twenty year engagements, or live in separate countries, lol. Five years of texting hundreds of times a day, or blabbing about yourself for hours on end will never even begin to compare to living with someone for a month (hell, maybe a week, lol) for knowing who they really are. And it does apply to ALL of us, unfortunately.

      • Strengthrequired

        Giz, lol.. How funny. My h can blow off in front of me, for goodness sake I’ve been with him for a life time, yet when it came to his “it” he made sure he held it all in, until he was alone. Lol. I can only imagine how sore his stomach was, holding it in for long times. Trying to be charming and sweet without blowing squirts of hot air. Lol
        Of course they don’t want to turn off the love interest by their comfortable manly traits, just because the were being themselves and what comes naturally.
        I’m sure “it ” would have been shocked if they ended up together. Lol

    • tryinghard

      Giz

      I’ve read about oil pulling and have wanted to try it but the thought of swishing and sucking on oil for 10 minutes makes me want to gag.

      I don’t know about you Giz but I have NO disgusting habits!!! LOLOLOL!!!

      Seriously, my H know when the bathroom door is shut, it’s locked and I want privacy. Heck I may even just be giving myself a facial, but if I want privacy for that then he needs to respect it. On the same note, when he is in the bathroom and the door is closed I don’t go in there. NOW the difference being, I close the door, both of them ( I have two doors to my bathroom) and he doesn’t and trust me more times than not I turn the corner and have to face something I don’t want to face. Yeah I wonder too if he did all that personal stuff in front of her!! I say not. Just a guess though 🙂

    • gizfield

      I tried it once , TH. Nasty. I did get some organic coconut oil so maybe it’s not as bad.

      My first marriage there were no kids. My husband therefore did not feel the need to close the bathroom door. Even though I asked. Eeeew. I read about young women who are happy when their man “trusts; them enough not to close the door. Or fart in front of them, etc. no wonder the divorce rate is soaring.

    • gizfield

      One thing thats always bothered me is my hair, lol. I look a complete fright at the pool. It’s long, and just gets curlier, and thicker , and frizzier, lol. Also, in rain and humidity. And wind. No convertibles for me.

      My daughter’s hair looks perfect after swimming. It’s thick and fine like mine, and straight like my husband’s.

    • tryinghard

      Giz

      OK, get yourself some Moroccan Oil and run that through your beautiful curly hair before going to the pool or out in the humidity. It doesn’t take the curl out it just tames it! Plus it smells AMAZING! The have a whole line of shampoos and conditioners too. It’s not cheap BUT you’re worth it.

    • gizfield

      Yesterday my husband said he was”stove up” (southern for stiff and sore, lol) and that he was old. I said “yes you are old but I still love you, lol.” Then, I said “anyone can love you when you are at your best. The secret is to find someone who will love you when you are not.”

    • gizfield

      Thanks, Trying! I will try that.

    • tryinghard

      Broken 2

      I admire you and if I had an academy award I would give it to you!!! Put on that face. Heck let HIM believe it AND in the back of your head keep that goal alive, YOUR DEGREE!!! I agree let him do as he pleases but it will be without you. He wants to chase whores he can do it on his own! Don’t think it will be as much fun then though. They always need some to sneak around. Somehow I think he has put you in the role of his gatekeeper/Mommy from whom he needs to rebel in order to prove he’s a man. It also sounds like he really cares how others perceive him, classic Narcissist!

      Gosh Broken I hate this for you that you can’t just pack his suitcases and throw his sad ass out NOW!! But I don’t blame you, the goal is to get through school so if he wants to play games I say game on!!! I’m sure he’s thinking he’s wrapping you around his finger with his attention getting games.

      Hang tough girlfriend. I’m on your side!

    • EyesOpened

      I clicked on this thread a thousand times – kept updating but I couldn’t see new posts…. Have now seen Theresa, SR and TH in the midst of it all – apologies if I seem rude not to respond.

      TH. Blonde hair & blue eyes? Snap! I just can’t believe that?!

      Maybe we could have a thread where we say our likeness to someone well known -so we can have a mental picture of one another. ( not exact but in the same genre as…….)…

      Everyone’s comments to each other are just brilliant. This is a great thread.

      Gizfield. – not sure if I told you how much I loved your ‘all that and a bag of chips ‘ line? Using it frequently now..

      Also – top tip – I have long curly frizzy hair – which I spend hours of my life washing, covering in product and diffusing daily – such a chore – it’s only in the last couple of years I’ve learned to wash it, coat it in conditioner and scrunch it up wet in a bun for holidays or swimming pool days – works a treat, keeps it neat and gives it a treatment all in one go. I hate wearing my hair up but I hate it being a frizzy mess too – so it’s a good compromise!!

      • Theresa

        No apology necessary! I still have a hard time deciding to respond NOW, or to keep scrolling! Especially when there is a lot of action on one thread. What does everyone else think?
        Doug, once again, way to get things going!

      • Doug

        Due to the cache issue, you gotta “refresh”. It sucks and I hate it but otherwise the site would be slow as molasses.

    • tryinghard

      I think we get all kinds of topics sorted out here from bathroom privacy issues to hair styling products to stupid repeat offenders…..

      EO–sometimes if you go to the blog you have to hit refresh. I was having the same problem till Doug told me to refresh. The all the new stuff pops up.

      Yes, blonde and blue eyes, sort of a cross between Christie Brinkley and Catherine Denueve(her younger self!!!!) And snarky and sassy as hell 🙂

      BUT hey I forgot to ask Doug and Linda how the Queen concert was???

      • Doug

        Queen was awesome. Thanks for asking. Adam Lambert is one hell of a showman and can really sing (nails Freddy Mercury, btw).

    • EyesOpened

      Wow TH!! So not what I imagined !!!!

      Doug and Linda – glad you loved Queen. You were missed!

      Thanks for the tips on refreshing …. It’s more the fact they don’t download in order – so I might see posts 1,2,3 then 7&8 – then when I return 4,5 and 6 … Just odd! I really am not complaining – it just feels so rude when someone has spoken to me and I don’t reply :-).

    • Tiredofitall

      I cannot keep everyone and their stories straight yet but I still feel such a kindred spirit to you all. It seems that no matter when I get on this site, it validates what I’m feeling. Whether it is joy or angst or sadness. We just passed the 2 year “beginning” of the EA and that day brought many feelings of anxiety and stress. However-thanks to so many of you I spent time analyzing how far I have come with my ability to deal with triggers, ask questions at appropriate times, and spend quality time with my husband. I loved the idea about writing the question you have in a journal and sitting in it for 24 hours. Long story short. This has been the worst thing that has ever happened in my entire life including losing my beloved mom and fighting cancer myself. I still don’t understand how my love could do this to “us” and that is one thing I just can’t seem to let go of.

    • tryinghard

      Hi Tired

      The first couple years are hard because I think sometimes we are wondering if our spouses are remembering them as “anniversaries” as well. I think, probably NOT since most are truly mortified at their ignorant and hurtful behavior once out of the grips of an affair. AND I believe woman are much more anniversary centered. Heck I could have an anniversary of some sort nearly every day !

      I think it is good to look at time frames and give ourselves credit for how far we have come after one of the biggest shocks and disappointments of our lives. I too could say this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me and then I am embarrassed and ashamed for thinking that. If we truly put it in perspective compared to what could really be the worst thing to happen, like losing a child, I try to be appreciative of my truly blessed life. Yeah it hurts and sucks that the person we trusted most deceived and betrayed us but there is redemption and healing in that.

      I watch the news and look at all the killing and wars and people losing their entire families, like the young girl in Houston, or the folks in the Middle East whose children are being kidnapped and murdered and my little misery is pretty much put into perspective.

      I hope you are taking care of yourself and putting yourself first regardless of the state of your relationship with your husband. It seems to me once we do that everything else seems to fall into place.

      Hugs to you.

      Also I’ve copied a link to a very interesting article I read in Psychology Today that may be helpful for everyone.

      psychologytoday.com/blog/%5Bfield_blog_ref-title-raw%5D/201405/is-someone-driving-you-nuts

    • Tiredofitall

      Thank you for that kick in the butt. You are exactly right-compared to losing a child etc–this is something I guess we all can and will recover from. My life is a good one in so many ways and I do need to focus on my many blessings when I get down. I got this.

    • tryinghard

      Tired

      Oh please I hope I didn’t insult you. Trust me I have the very same feelings as you. Had someone said my words to me in the early days I probably would have slapped them. Matter of fact a husband of a friend when I was at their home in the early days of discovery shrugged his shoulders and said “Oh well, nothing lasts forever!” I haven’t spoken to him since.

      We can look at our situations and life choices and say I should have done this or why did I do that but we all have to deal with betrayal on our own timeline and our own way. What works for one may not work for another and that’s OK. I did many crazy things and thought many crazy thoughts but I truly believe had I not done that or grieved the loss of our previous life I wouldn’t be where I am today. And today I am in a very good, wise, stronger place. I am a better person. Adversity grows strong character. I am MUCH more aware of living my life with integrity. Where before I never thought of it. I am much more aware of living and acting as the best person I can be regardless of my marital status, regardless of the humiliating treatment from my husband.

      Also I need to say, I’ve only come to these conclusions after being three years out from DDays. In the beginning it’s all about survival. So, all in all the most I can hope for is when I am on my death bed I can look back and say “…yeah some pretty shitty things happened to me in life, but over all, I’ve been pretty blessed!” As long as my children are happy and healthy and my grandchildren grow up to be decent productive human beings I hope that the worst thing that ever happened to me is my husband’s betrayal. And this is how I choose to move forward.

    • forcryin'outloud

      I think I’m losing my marbles but for the past week I’ve had this particular thought pattern on my mind…
      There’s a part of me that wishes my H’s affair would have meant to him what he thought it would. Sometimes I wish she was his soulmate, his long lost high school first love he just couldn’t shake. You know “the girl that got away” scenerio. Maybe because I wish all this pain and anguish would have mattered for some REAL reason. Sometimes I think I get pissed that the OW was a bust because that means the whole stupid episode was a gigantic joke all the way around. And long term that makes me as frustrated as the anger I had over the affair.

      • Tryinghard

        FCOL

        I know!! I can’t tell you how many times I thought the same thing. Really if WTF was ever an appropriate question it’s about this. Now they are sadly just a tired, old cliche and I guess we are too for being all Loretta Lynn and “standing by our man”. Maybe we could find a cure for some really shitty disease to redeem ourselves and bring some dignity back to our sad little lives:)

        • forcryin'outloud

          TH, you’re right, it’s an old cliche all the way around…it’s pitiful! I have to say I’m sick of it. Worn down by the energy I’ve exhausted on this ENTIRE bull caca. I think I’m at the final stage of recovery – acceptance – and the final pill is INCREDIBLY jagged to swallow. Probably because I swore I would never be a “Loretta Lynn.” Jokes on me if you know what I mean.

    • tryinghard

      FCOL

      No dear, the joke IS NOT on you. Do not do that. It has nothing to do with you. You’re a smart, ethical, kind person. This is ALL his. Look if our marriages were ONLY about fidelity or infidelity that would be one thing but they are NOT. Yes it’s played a huge part the last couple years but that is not what our entire marriages are about. OK so part of us is a little Loretta Lynn but there’s also the women that we’ve become. Stronger, smarter, battle strong. We all have a lot to give and to live for. And we cannot let what someone else did describe who WE are.

      Total acceptance is hard to swallow but it’s finally letting go of that gold brick we’ve been treading water with thinking that if we just keep the anger and resentment going he won’t cheat again. It’s so wrong. I’m convinced if people want to cheat THEY FUCKING WILL. So I’ve decided to let the brick go and be the best I can be for me and my family and hopefully my marriage.

      I hear what you are saying though. But I think your thought is indicative of how far you’ve healed. You’re looking at the “whole forest” and not just the trees. Yes everyone can finally look and say “what a freaking idiot, and for what??” It’s good to trivialize the affair, put it in perspective compared to the whole grand scheme of our lives.

      Hugs to you sister 🙂

    • Doug

      I just saw this article on the cost of affairs that you guys might find interesting: http://www.pfhub.com/extramarital-affairs-come-with-hefty-price-tag-444-per-month-958/

      • Strengthrequired

        Doing, interesting read. Unfortunately my h affair cost us way more per month, and lasted a lot longer. My h was a foolish idiot.

        • Strengthrequired

          Sorry, that was supposed to say Doug

          • Strengthrequired

            Doug, why do you think the mm would spend so much on his mistress, and treat the mistress better than what he would treat his wife?

            • Doug

              Well SR, I think there can be many reasons for that…Stupidity for one. Also, it could be like an addict feeding his/her addiction – not caring what he/she does or how much money it takes just to get a ‘fix’. It could also be a way for the person to impress their AP, romance them, keep them from leaving, etc. I’m sure there are more reasons – anyone else have ideas?

            • Strengthrequired

              I think stupidity is definately an understatement. Yet what was your thinking (or not thinking, while you were throwing time and money around the ow)?

    • Strengthrequired

      I have a question for everyone.

      If you cheated on your wife/husband and it ended with the ap, would you think of that ap as an ex girlfriend/boyfriend?

      If you were the betrayed wife/husband, how do you think of that ap as? Your h/w ex girlfriend/boyfriend?

      Just curious, on where everyone stands. I was just watching a show on TV, and they were talking about what you would do with photos of an ex? And it hit me, here I am married, and after all these years my h has an ex, while married to me, should I think of it as that, because honestly it just doesn’t sound right?
      So what do you guys think? How do you see the ap as?

    • Redemption

      I would not dignify them with any name. They are not worthy of any title other than what they have represented, they are the low class people in this world who struggle for stature in their fantasies, while doing an injustice to women all over the world.
      But if I were forced to give them a name it would probably be “Cruella Deville”. 🙂

    • gizfield

      Strength, interesting question. My AP was my high school boyfriend. Met him 2 days before my fifteenth birthday. Talked on phone a year before my parents would let me date him. Although I did sneak out a few times. We dated about a year, broke up. My parents found out some stuff, forbidden to see him again. Snuck out a few times again. After I got an apartment and job, we dated again. Broke up one more time. So for a period of five or six years, this guy and I had a legitimate relationship and I would refer to him as my ex boyfriend. I have accepted that I have memories from this time. Not feelings, but memories, cause that was my youth. And he was there a lot of the time. I live about five miles from my childhood home, and pass places we went everyday. So sometimes I do remember things, some good, some bad. I haven’t spoken to him in 20 years or more, and have no desire to. Like someone sa said, Strangers on the train.

    • Gizfield

      Part 2. I did not talk to, see, or even think about my ex for the next ei ght or ten years. He called me at my mother’s house, then we never talked again for a year. After that, we had two spells of cheating. Probably a year of no contact in between, for a total of maybe three years. My thoughts of this time are dark and unpleasant. We went different places, but within the same area. Still see them daily too. On the rare occasion I think of him, it’s just his name. If I were talking about it to a friend, I would use his name. Otherwise, I’d probably say My ex or high school boyfriend I cheated with. Or co adulterer. Hope that helps, SR.

      • Strengthrequired

        Redemption, I had to lol. Cruella Deville, good name choice. Lol

    • Strengthrequired

      Gizfield,, adulterer, that was interesting name choice. May I ask what you would class your h ow?
      I have been thinking a bit more about this, and I’m probably thinking too much about it, but it and my h also were engaged at the beginning, so I guess my h has an ex fiancée, sounds even worse considering he and she were still married. Yet should I give her that title, especially when others in his family probably would?

    • Gizfield

      SR, I normally just refer to her as his girlfriend. Mostly to be sarcastic cause I knew he doesn’t like it. Or Roadwhore. My personal favorite.

      He wont admit adultery so he would definitely not like that. The most descriptive is probably just Cheater and co cheater.

      • Strengthrequired

        Giz, I too have used girlfriend in front of him and he doesn’t like it either. That too is me poking him, because he doesn’t like it. Lol
        At times I used to say, ” ohhh your lover wouldn’t like that”. He didn’t like that either.
        I never once called her his exf, maybe I should see what his reaction is.

        You know giz, I know I have so many young children with my h, yet I still at times wonder, after everything he did, why am I still here. I think the further away you get from the affair days, you sit and look back, and you amaze yourself.

    • Strengthrequired

      I have just found out that the country my h family and his ow is from, holds a jail term of upto 2 yrs for adultery. Now I find out, if only I knew about the start of the affair and the penalties for adultery when they were there. May have been a huge wake up call for both of them, and her family.

    • Tiredofitall

      When I talk to my husband, I call her his ex-girlfriend too just to throw out the “dig”. I like road who’re though. I may try that out! I know that I hate the OW immensely to keep from putting that hate on my husband. If I held him equally responsible (which I know and realize he is) than I don’t know how I would be able to deal with this and not completely hate his guts. It never ceases to amaze me how close the emotions of love and hate are.

    • Strengthrequired

      Tired, I feel the same, if I was to hate my h, I couldn’t stay, and if that happened, the ow in my life could have been in my children’s life, which I did not want, at all.

    • Tiredofitall

      We women (& some men) do incredible things to keep our children and family safe. About 12 years ago during another of my husbands “slip ups” a friend gave me this advice: Just take it one day at a time. Each day ask yourself if the day was a better day for your family (kids) because your husband was there. If it was then you have done something worthwhile. Day by day seems to be the mantra.

      • Strengthrequired

        Tired, Some good advice your friend gave.

      • Theresa

        I’ve thought a lot about the lengths we go through to protect the hearth.
        When flying, the adult is told to place her own air mask on first, then take care of the children. It took me a while. I always said to myself, yeah right! I get it now.

        In The World According to Garp. by John Irving
        There are 2 scenes that “I get”
        He buys a house that’s been hit by a plane, he’s playing the odds.
        When a motorist tears through the streets of his neighborhood he chases him through yards and over fences to get him.
        I get that.

    • Theresa

      The jackass told me that after the first few d-days, he had no intention of stopping the affair.
      The emails he sent to her used the terms “chill for a while”, “lay low”, “keep some distance”. it wasn’t to hard to deduce his committments to our marriage.
      But if there is a genuine attempt to make things right, what tools does the cheater have to help him stay on the path?
      There are a lot. But it involves a conscious act to make use of them. I’m a recovering alcoholic. (12 years). I understand the value of these tools. If I need help, before I decide to f/u again, I need to make use of the tools.
      There is a first step, an active, conscious decision to take the first step off the path.
      IT DOES NOT JUST HAPPEN! It’s a very conscious decision.
      So if there is a true committment to reconcile, why hasn’t he used any of the resources that are readily available. “I just won’t” hasn’t worked.

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