Good Wednesday to all!

Nobody ever plans on being a victim of a marital affair, or for that matter having an affair. But it happens, and it is a terribly painful experience for those involved. Life is filled with times of transitions, times of change, times of trauma, times of death, times of crisis of various kinds. When life throws us these challenges we can choose to face them head on, or we can turn and run.

Believe it or not, infidelity can be an impetus for you to evolve and develop into the kind of person you are meant to be and that you truly want to become.

With this in mind…What are you learning about yourself as a result of the affair? Whether you are the betrayed spouse or the cheating spouse, what are you learning about you?

Please be sure to respond to each other’s comments!

Take care!

Doug & Linda

See also  Even a Good Thing Can Be an Affair Trigger

    28 replies to "Open Discussion: What Are You Learning About You?"

    • Broken

      I’ve learned that I am not a forgiving person. I’ve learned to trust my instincts and gut. One thing that I am not proud of that I have learned about myself is that I am not a good judge of character. Maybe I was too trusting before and naive. I’ve learned that when faced with troubles I am not good at handling my emotions. I’ve learned that I am stronger than I thought and I have an awesome amount of will power.

    • ruth

      Broken, I seem to feel the same way. I just cant forgive and trusted him anymore I did for way to long. I too, am stronger than I thought and smarter than I thought. I learned that I have been living in a fog and its time for the fog to lift and see whats left. I have this increadible hate for the ow that I cant get over. I learn that I have never felt that way about another person in my life. I have learned that I deserve better.

    • Jeffrey Murrah

      Doug,

      It has been my experience, that when you loose something, we gain something else. It is like a giant trade off. The pain of the affair often keeps people from seeing what they have learned of what they have gained.

      Broken, it sounds like your have learned some valuable insights. The insights about your naivete, willingness to trust, being a judge of character are valuable. When people know those things, they know how to avoid making the same mistakes again. They know how and where to adjust in dealing with others. They know where they are vulnerable. The real gem is realizing ;I am stronger than I thought and I have an awesome amount of will power”. You have realized that you are not a helpless and powerless victim. You are not a wimp in any way. There is a lot of emotions (and sense emotions=emotional energy/power) there is a strength in that. From many of your comments, you are a fighter. You stand for what you believe and are outspoken on what you think. That puts you way ahead of those who suffer in silent desperation.

      I recognize that if someone asked us if we wanted to trade the experience of an affair for insights/knowledge/wisdom, we would not make such a trade. Even though we would not want to make such a trade, the lessons we learn are extremely useful. They are hard lessons that we do not want to learn again.

      • Broken

        Jeffrey Murrah ,

        Thank you for the kind words. Although by me stand up for what I believe in and being outspoken on what I think has done me more harm than good it seems. My H never liked that part of my personality. He saw it as stubborn, thick headed and bitch, oh and lets not forget bitter. It seems like if I had been more of a wimp that maybe things would have gotten better after I found out about the EA. But I was relentless and basically let him have it without holding back. I asked for a divorce the minute I found out. Obviously he didn’t agree. But I never once attempted to fight for my man. Like a lot of women will do, I didn’t. I told him from day one this is your mistake you fix it. And if he can’t oh well. I think my will power is working against me. I also feel less powerful because I’m still here. I feel like if I left then I would really have the power.

        • Jeffrey Murrah

          Broken,

          Thank you for getting back. I suspect that you H had resentments before the cheating occurred from what you said. Had he learned how to work with your thick headedness, it could have turned things around. Being decisive like you are can be both a blessing and a curse. Many people suffer in silence and wish they could speak out. You speak out. You call it like you see it. That is usually a good quality, but it often leaves spouses feeling pierced ( like a spear was run through them) when they encounter such outspokenness. Learning how to use your decisiveness and outspokenness may be a challenge. When I have worked with such persons before, the often want to react and speak out right away, rather than hearing people out and exercising deference prior to speaking. From your comments, you are making progress in your recovery.

          Some of your power comes from speaking out, some comes from choosing not to speak out. Our greatest strengths can become our greatest weaknesses when we cont know how to use them.

          • Broken

            Jeffrey Murrah,

            Everything you say makes complete sense. My H has mentioned that my personality was a huge problem for him. Especially my ability to be stubborn and bitter. If I had learned how to control my personality and traits maybe I would have been better off. Maybe by giving up in some way I would have shown him that I can be understanding. I know that he resents me for my thick head and wishes that sometimes I would just let some things go. It’s hard for me to do that. When it comes to the EA I can not just let it go. But I have learned that for other matters in our marriage it is best to just let some problems we have go and to not dwell. Your also right about holding myself back and allowing myself to hear what he’s saying. I often let my feelings out in the heat of the moment without giving him a chance to explain. This is a weakness of mine. I am blessed to have such a personality, because if I didn’t I would be abused and taken advantage of. In other ways it’s definitely a curse because I’m not allowing myself to heal. It’s gotta be a two way street in marriage, I realize that. I’m just so damn angry that I often feel like I’d rather stick to my guns and let him suffer. But I see the sad truth is I’m the one suffering the most. Everything you are saying is completely true. Now I need to figure out how to control myself and perhaps change so that I can move on.

        • Doug

          Broken, Your comment demonstrates that no matter how we deal with the aftermath of an affair we still feel powerless and believe we should have handled the situation differently. I was the wimpy one, I didn’t display much anger and fought for my marriage and my man. I really regret the way I handled the situation, I felt that if I would have threatened to kick him out, been more forceful and “bitchy” that my recovery would have been easier and Doug would have ended the affair sooner.

          Honestly I didn’t think it mattered if I was wimpy or forceful, Doug would have ended it when he was ready to. Maybe I would have felt more in control if I would have reacted differently, but that would be going against my personality, out of my comfort zone and I handled the only way I knew how-as an emotional wreck.

          I think that is why it is so important to educate yourself on the dynamics of affairs, that is what gives you the power. Not how you handle the situation, but knowing why your spouse is acting the way they are and having some clue as to what is going on in their head.

          All of us have felt that we would finally have power over our spouses if they leave and then eventually come crawling back to us remorseful and kissing our feet. You don’t know how many times I have fantasized that scenario in my head. I felt that in order for him to truly appreciate what he had a home he had to go through hell with her. Really see how she was and how stupid he was. I have realized I didn’t need that to gain power. Even though he won’t admit it in so many words I believe he knew how she was and he knows how stupid he was. He has proven where he wants to be and it didn’t take time apart to figure that out. –Linda

          • Broken

            Linda… yes your right, no matter how we deal with aftermath we feel like failures. There are so many things I wish I had done different. But it’s too late for that now and I can’t change it. I don’t want the “power” in my relationship… I just want to know that he is here because he really wants to be here. I don’t want to feel like because I have the “power” and I am using all of these strategies that he is staying. I want to know that he truly loves me, that he is remorseful, that he is content with being with me. That’s all I want. I don’t care who has the power, I just want to have a real life and marriage as opposed to one that is existing because I have control over someone and I am forcing them to be here.

            • Broken

              Linda,
              Do you ever feel like Doug was deliberately trying to hurt you by having the affair? I feel like my H had the affair because in some subconscious way he wanted to make me feel extreme pain. As if all the bitchiness I gave him was so hurtful that he wanted to hurt me just as bad. Because when I think of the affair and how he acted I feel like he must of said to himself this would make my wife so angry, and then he would maybe say to himself well she deserves it or I don’t care how she feels. My feelings were never taken into consideration while he was in the EA. And I have to wonder why. Why did he not care that he was deceiving me? Why didn’t he ever feel guilty enough to stop?

            • Doug

              Broken, I didn’t feel that Doug deliberately entered the affair to hurt me, I believe before the affair started he felt neglected, lonely, angry and was hurting. I believe when the affair started he had given up and believed I didn’t care so why should he. However after I discovered the affair he became angry and resentful because it was easier to be mad at me than to face the guilt and shame. I also believe that his anger and resentfulness was fueled by Tanya. She helped justify his actions and anger because for one she only knew one side of the story, and secondly she had her own agenda.

              After the affair ended and the fog lifted Doug was able to see how we equally contributed to the deterioration of our marriage. How both of our actions caused so much hurt and built up anger and we openly discussed what we needed to do to make our marriage stronger. Linda

            • Broken

              Linda,
              Maybe your right about… “I believe when the affair started he had given up and believed I didn’t care so why should he.” But there were points in our marriage while he was in the EA, that I cared so much about him that he found it annoying. I remember 7 months before I found out, that I was so head over heels for him for some reason. I would constantly call him and tell him I love him, send him emails, etc. So why didn’t he pull out then? Why didn’t he pull out when he saw that I did care? I’ll never have the answers for these questions. It just boggles my mind.

            • Linda

              Broken, I think Doug could give you more insight than I can about why he didn’t pull out when you were acting differently. I believe that for one he may have thought it was too late, why didn’t you act this way before he got himself in this mess. He may have blamed you for his affair. Also he was receiving all the stimulation he needed from the OP, he had already devalued you (as we discussed today) and felt your neediness was weak compared to the “confidence” in saw in the OP.

              Honestly it takes a LONG time for all the revelations to appear. It will be two years in Sept. and I am still learning new information about Doug’s affair. I feel that our spouses have to gain our trust in order to open up which is a double edge sword because we are the one’s who should be concerned about trust. I think that they are still afraid to reveal too much, afraid of our reactions, and opening up a can of worms. It would be easier to forget about it and push it aside but we really can’t do that in order to heal. I believe that Karen has the best solution, set aside time once a week to discuss the affair, then let it go. Listen with the intent to find out information, not to punish your spouse. How you react will set the tone and make it easier for them to open up. The rest of the week should be spent having fun, enjoyable conversations.

    • Karen

      I’ve learned: (1) It is NOT my fault that my H had and EA; (2) I need to feel loved in order to want to have sex; (3) What I thought was me showing respect to my H was interpreted as disrespect (4) I see things and think very differently than my H; (5) I could never have an affair; (6) Reading, researching and then acting on what I’ve learned is the best way for me to handle extremely painful situations; (7) I am stronger than what I thought (although I thought I was pretty strong before EA); (8) I have the ability to really hate someone; (9) I have great friends who support me; (10) I am entitled to have my emotional needs met; (11) I enable codependency by making all things right that go wrong; (12) I can verbally and calmly communicate what I want/need from my H and should do so regularly; (13) that I can and should enforce boundaries in my marriage; (14) that I did NOT deserve this but will definitely survive and enjoy my life going forward.

    • Ceejay

      I have learned that I took things for granted. I learned that I cannot ‘manage’ a ‘friendship’ with a member of the opposite sex. I now know that I cannot say ‘but I would never…’ about much of anything anymore. I now know that logic and reason have no large part in matters of the ‘heart’. I learned that I can actually do things that I cannot resolve in my mind as to why I did them. That one is scary.

      I learned that my marriage is not the way it should be, and it depends on me to do all diligence in making it better. If my dear wife wants to make changes to improve ‘us’ then let it be so, but the onus is on me to prove that I want this to work long term. The beauty is that she WANTS to make things different. She did not like where we were, and has no desire to go back, with the exception being the level of trust and security she had. Those things will take work and time to heal. And I am willing to see it through.

    • D

      Linda, Doug. Thank you for all you’re doing here. It’s good work. I wish you the best.

      I’ve learned that I have my own work to do: letting go of attachment, anger, fear, and illusions of romantic love. I’ve learned that I’ve put off maturity for far too long. I’ve got to throw myself into the ashes, as Robert Bly would say, and rise up a man.

      I’ve learned that I gave away my power in the marriage. I lost myself in her. As long as she loved me I was worthy. In many ways I deserved to be trampled on. I thought the lessons of King Lear were for old men, instead I find that anyone who relinquishes their power is a fool. I’ve learned that to live my truth I’ve got to take back my power … and never surrender it to anyone again.

      I’ve learned, the hard way, that revenge is unsatisfying. I am still left with my ashes work. I still have my pain, only compounded.

      I’ve especially learned that wallowing over yesterday will never get me to the here and now, the present. I’ve become as addicted to pain as my wife was to pleasure. I am only hurting myself in the process, not learning. not gaining ground, only justifying my pain. I have been in as much of a “fog” as she has and have gained as much insight from the experience.

      This site has been a God send, but I see it is but a stop on the journey toward healing. To linger here too long is to remain stuck, lost – Hotel California?

      I’ve learned there is a light ahead and it’s not a train. For those brave enough to face their greatest fear honestly, inwardly, that light is their soul.

      I wish everyone well on their journey.

      Namaste

      • Doug

        D.,

        Thank you for the kind words and for your input on this blog. We both enjoy reading your well written and insightful comments.

      • Broken

        I’m gonna miss D., his comments were great!

        • Doug

          I agree. I hope he stops by now and then for sure.

      • cant sleep!

        As nice as it sounds to be able to end this site, I feel that it will take longer for me. My wife and I don’t have the level of communication that would enable me to communicate what I do here. For fear of upsetting her and bringing those feelings back. She said early on that she didn’t want to talk about it because it brought up all those emotions again. And her obvious goal is to just rebury everything and move on.
        In some ways we are all just as addicted to this site as our spouse was to the OM/OW. One big difference in me is that she knows that I post on here and choses not to read or comment on what I have to say. It’s her choice on how she deals with what she did and I can’t force my wants or needs on her. I know that all to well. I visit for me and enrichment of my life. If I can help someone else in this struggle, I will do so. If my words put in order the scattered thoughts of someone else, I feel blessed to help.
        A lot of the times I visit here are because I feel off, unsure of her, frustrated, you all know the feelings. But it helps me to put them in words. It helps me to look at what I have said and figure out why I said it.

        Tonight at midnight will be d-day + 8mnths
        And I’m still here.

    • Karen

      Broken: sorry to jump in on your question to Linda, but your post struck a chord with me. I too am strong, outspoken, and stubborn, and in talking last night, my husband said that he feels like he had an EA partly because he was frustrated and couldn’t get what he needed from me, and I wouldn’t listen (probably true) but he never stopped loving me. I’ve been thinking about that since last night, and your post helped me understand it better. Thanks.

      • Broken

        Karen, I’m glad that my post helped you. I am assuming on my own that my personality traits are the reason my husband had the EA. When I asked why he had the EA he claims it had nothing to do with me or our marriage, but just that he found it to be exciting and flattering. But I know better… and I know that my attitude in some way shape or form had something to do with him being involved with this EA. I just wish he would admit to it, but he refuses to say it. I think he doesn’t want to hurt my feelings. At this point… I could careless what he thinks of me anyway, I now I’m the better person.

        • Karen

          Broken: Same reason my H gave in the beginning. Now more details are coming out each week during the “talk.” And yes, we both are better people. Hopefully our H’s can meet our needs.

          • Broken

            Karen… is there anything that you are doing that is allowing your H to be more open and honest with you? Please I need to know how to make him open up to me. I realize that I was maybe not as understanding before, and this time I will try my best to be more understanding. But is there anything else that you are doing different? Sometimes when we talk it feels like I am a detective interrogating a murderer. Only because I ask questions and he shuts down, then I have to think of other ways to make him open up to me. Please let me know.

            • Karen

              Broken: Besides what Linda said, once a week sitting down to calmly talk (I prepare by making notes, printing stuff I want to read to him, writing down questions I want to ask) about our marriage and the affair. I think I have most of the details on the affair that I want to know so now it’s concentrating on how it happened and what we are doing to work on each of ourselves individually and as a couple going forward. I also have finally realized that a husband must feel he is being respected (this is key) in order to show love, communicate and all the stuff we want from them. Even though I think I was showing respect for the last 26 years of marriage, my husband adamantly feels otherwise, which I have to accept and try to adjust my behavior accordingly. I practice saying respectful phrases to him – oh so hard for me as I am a tell-it-like-it-is person – and do my best to hold my tongue whenever possible till I can reformulate my words. IT WORKS!! Sounds ridiculous to me, but IT WORKS!! Sarcasm is my specialty – I can dish it and take it – but my H is more sensitive than I. Why could I not see this earlier 🙁

              We also filled out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire from this site and discussed it. I asked him to write down a list of boundaries, since he is boundary-resistant, that he thinks he can keep when dealing with the opposite sex. Yes, I am doing all the research and organization of how we are working on the marriage, and his follow-through is less than
              I’d like, but he talks with me and gives me more info each week and is trying, I can tell. We are doing as much of the stuff that I see recommended on this site, including the sex, as often as possible – focusing on having fun together and rebuilding the love that we’ve lost. We have a long, long way to go (8 weeks post-Dday), and I struggle with lack of patience and no progress in building trust. And I tell my H that and ask him to help me in any way he can. We’ll see. No grand expectations. I don’t think he’ll do this again, but if he does, I’m outta here.

    • ruth

      I need to come here also because my h refused to talk to me he just wants to forget about it and move on and if I bring up anything at all he gets very defensive and we that have an arguement. I read and read what everyone has said and then I compare it to my situation and realize that everyone on here has been where I am or is where I am. Yes somethings are diffenent becuase we are all different people. I think we are all trying to forgive our spouses but we cant forget and the forget part is what keeps me in limbo. Today I am struggling with how I feel. I keep asking myself would I be happier in the long run if I just got a divorce and put this all behind me. But yet I dont think thats the answer. How do I stop thinking about it?? I have tried to tell myself just stop but I cant. I have a fear that if we dont talk about it he will only do it again. I dont really think he is sorry. Here is whats really bothering me too. I came a cross a email from them back last sept and they both promised never to kiss anyone again. Guess what guys my h as not kissed me expect for a peck and never when we have sex. Am I Crayz or what??? Am I fooling myself into thinking this will get better? Am I in my fog still? So many questions and no answers.

    • cant sleep!

      Linda,
      That’s just it, so many of us here don’t have that open comunication. That team effort to start new. That team effort to analyze what went wrong and build a better marriage. Most of our spouses don’t want to look at the failing part of our marriages. They don’t want to see the chaos that was our lives because of it.
      They want to put it behind us and hope it never happenes again.
      My wife leaves again this monday for another show. And she Will be gone for a week again. Will there be someone there that sees her as easy pray, and would she ever tell me about it anyways.
      Before this happened It would never cross my mind that I had to worry about such things. Then because of what happened and all the lies that I have discovered,(comunications with other men, ex husband,old boyfriend) will I ever be able not to.
      I can say that I can’t change her and how her mind works. I can’t get her to feel the same way about this as I do. And I won’t ever be able to show her the pain that it has cost me. All I can do, is know that this is me take it or leave it. My choice to stay preocupied with this is just as unhealthy as her choice to become obliviuos to it. I don’t need to feel better about her. I already feel better about myself.

    • Scott M.

      I am learning that I dont handle this kind of stress well. I am filled with anxiety about the future of us, our family and our ways of relating to each other. I have lost my best friend, the one person I could talk to about anything. When my dad died and I was in the ICU I was the most anxious in my life. When my wife arrived and hugged me it was like all the unknowns of the future melted away, that we would be ok. that I would be ok, that we would travel this path together. Now, my aniexty is even higher and I wonder how we are going to get thru this. She said she gave up on me 5 years ago after I failed to plan her 40th birthday party. She said I dissapoint her as a father, that I am more like her father than she ever imagined, that I dont show her she is special, or appreciated, that me showing her she is special is not in my nature. She even said she that my proposal was less than expected and that she had her wedding reception in a basement.

      I am learning that forgiveness is tougher than I thought.
      I am learning that maybe I dont want her back, that I am not willing or able to put in the time for us.
      I am learning that grace and kindness and love when not returned is harder to give.
      I am learning that no matter what I do or say this die might be cast already.
      I am learning that when a person finds out their entire marriage has been a lie that maybe you dont want to live like that.
      I am learning that acting happy around her and family, while nice, is not the way for me to find true happiness in myself, that I dont like to live a lie.
      I am learning that I would rather be honest with myself, than wear a mask for her.
      I am learning that She did this by choice.
      I am learning that I do have a small portion of culpibility in this.
      I am learning that I am an emotional guy and that is both a blessing and a curse.
      I am learning that I am grateful my wife and I are on a new course instead of a false, lied to course.

      • Doug

        Scott, Thanks for commenting. This is a great post and really shows how difficult this all is.

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