Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #30 – What’s On Your Mind Today?

open discussion

Man time flies!  It’s hard to believe that our last Open ‘Mic’ Discussion was all the way back in September. So let’s get to it!

In case you didn’t know, or are new to our site, the open discussion is where you guys call the shots and discuss the topics that you want to discuss.

We know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.  Anyways, the floor is all yours!

Feel free to discuss anything…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • What are you struggling with?
  • Have any success stories to share? Big or small. (We especially want to hear some of these!)
  • Wanna share any lessons you’ve learned recently?
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What’s your favorite movie of all time?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
  • Tell us a little about yourself.
  • Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.


Linda & Doug

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143 Responses to Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #30 – What’s On Your Mind Today?

  1. Exercisegrace February 6, 2018 at 9:41 am #

    Here is something I have been thinking about. What character traits and/or flaws have you now realized your spouse has had all along, but you’ve only noticed in retrospect in light of the cheating? And no, I don’t mean being a liar LOL.

    My example: looking back over our 30+ years together, I can see that my husband has always had a bit of a selfish streak. I think I always shrugged it off, because I’m not perfect either. I always assumed marriage would be about balancing and accepting each others’ good and bad points and working on our own weak points over the years. Just curious if anyone else (in hindsight) can see some things that were predictive.

    • TheFirstWife February 6, 2018 at 11:58 am #

      When I met my H (he was 19 turning 20) I was very impressed by his morals, strength and not a game player or liar.

      In retrospect I see his quietness and lack of responses or complete lack of communication as controlling and arrogant. If he did not want to talk about something he just refused.

      He tried to pull that the other night when I was trying to make a point. And he said he’s not discussing “that” and I said “too bad I AM!” And I did. I refused to back down!

      In the past I would have respected his wishes.

      But I mistook his quietness for thinking things through. Being thoughtful. Weighing all options.

      In reality it is no response and avoiding the question. I hate the “I don’t know” because that is code to me to stop asking b/c He doesn’t want to answer.

      He will literally be sitting one foot away and I will say something and get no response. Not even an acknowledgement I spoke. Not even a “what did you say?”

      But yet he told me during his A I don’t communicate. Laughing all the way to the numerous therapy sessions I had to deal with THAT comment!

      • Tired February 7, 2018 at 12:47 pm #

        TFW…I just love the way I have to say something 3 times before he can tear himself away from the television! Me, poor communicator? Communication issues, my bottom.

        Interesting I saw my husband the same way. Such high integrity and morals (but only when no one is looking). Lol. And yes, it IS controlling and arrogant! And the main point…they don’t have to answer the actual question!! Win, win!

        My husband’s tactic is clever. If I bring up anything about the affair he just looks so sad. It really makes me feel awful. And there he was “just thinking about what we could do to the garden.” Talk about a guilt trip. What he actually means is “STFU.”

        • Shifting Impressions February 7, 2018 at 1:09 pm #

          I know that face….my husband uses that same tactic. Makes me so mad!!!

          • Shifting Impressions February 7, 2018 at 1:19 pm #

            And your remark about the garden just had me laughing out loud…..such a familiar tactic!!!!

            • Tired February 12, 2018 at 6:59 pm #

              And yet they actually think they are not manipulative!!

        • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 2:39 pm #

          Tired I think our Hs are brothers from another mother


          I have literally argued with him for 2 HOURS because I asked a question and he gave me an answer that did not answer the question.

          And I was fed up with it and this one time did not back down or give in. I hung in until he admitted his response did not answer the question.

          Freakin finally was my attitude!

          • Tired February 12, 2018 at 6:57 pm #

            Or maybe just reading the same script, lol. They all sound the same with their excuses. I’ve been there too. Last weekend I had yet another question about the affair. He engages for a while, then gets up and says “i’m not listening to this shit.” And stomps off. This is a man who would never have said this to me 2 years ago though, so perhaps he is finally saying what he thinks. That could be good. The conversation was resumed later that evening but little came out of it. Master at avoiding the questions! Sometimes I honestly don’t know why I bother.

    • Untold February 9, 2018 at 12:42 pm #

      A couple observations on traits now recognized in hindsight
      – Can’t entertain herself; poor self-soothing
      – No impulse control
      – Thrives on attention in a group

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 12:07 pm #

      Hi exercisegrace , well , I can tell you that my husband is selfish as well, I can see it so clearly now ! It’s been all about him for as long as I can remember! I also have read up on narcissistic behavior well let me tell you I saw my husband! I do love him and he says he loves me every day! I feel his emotional affair has caused us a lot of pain and he knows it! I still believe he has issues with this as I . I am doing better after 4 years, but I know it will be with us forever! I am happy that we are still together. Right now I just take 1day at a time.

    • Harlyn February 13, 2018 at 2:41 pm #

      I have realised my husband always had to be the centre of attention and always put himself first and I don’t think that will ever change.

  2. Tired February 6, 2018 at 10:01 am #

    1. EG I know you said not about the lies, but I think these types of lies were not about covering up about the affair, they were lies that LED to it. My husband will tell lies so that someone doesn’t get angry at him. This is not good because he was bottling things up for years until it finally ended up in him having a very inappropriate friendship/emotional affair which he blamed on all the things he was not happy about that he had not told me about. Thinking back there were other times he has done this eg: telling his parents he had broken up with me so they wouldn’t keep nagging him. They did not want him involved with a woman not of the same culture as they are.

    2. Needing to be pampered and told how wonderful he is every five minutes. I didn’t realise how great of a need my admiration was for his self esteem. Then someone comes along and starts doing that and BAM, affair!

    3. He is a bit entitled. He grew up in a family that had help and were free from the drudge of 9-5 jobs so he resents working for a living. So when he was working really hard to get his career advancement he started resenting that. He worked extremely hard and is excellent at what he does but because he had that sense of entitlement he expected everyone (especially me) to be falling all about the place telling him how wonderful he was for doing it. So when a new woman actually did that…well you know the rest

    I only ever saw these things in hindsight too.

    • Sarah P. February 7, 2018 at 10:59 pm #


      May I ask what culture your H comes from? I mean was it like a Jewish versus Christian thing or was it like an American thing versus someone from a non-Western culture and religion. You don’t have to answer specifically– just generally.

      Because my husband pretended to break up with me 5 times (to his parents) when we dated because he is ethnically Jewish but does not practice the religion. Still they wanted an ethnic Jew who was basically an atheist. Well, I am not an atheist and never will be. God is at the center of my life. At that time, I was not “ethnically” Jewish either so they thought he was bringing a non-Jew into the family and they went ballistic.

      Then about 6 years into my marriage a good friend told me to get a DNA test. We had no information on my mother’s mother’s family line and I was trying to finish a family tree. My friend was a genealogist and couldn’t find anything either, so she recommended a DNA test and ‘opt in’ to be connected to all my genetic relatives. My test came back and my mom’s line was Jewish. I called the company and said it must be a mistake. But, they said no mistake and I got the names of my genetic relatives who had opted in. And they confirmed it. And I found cousins in the area and they filled in all the holes they could.

      And it was one of those twilight zone moments because my husband and I struggled with getting married because he was Jewish and I was not. (And that would mean subsequent children would not be Jewish if I was not Jewish and that made his parents angry.) But, there was some kind of inexplicable thing that bound us together and neither of us could be without each other. It was impossible to break up even when we tried. Finally, we said to heck with it and we ran away for Valentine’s Day and eloped.

      And so six years later when I found out I was Jewish, we were so relieved we did not break up and had gone with our hearts. And it was really a relief to me because all kinds of things that are very different about me suddenly made sense and it also made sense why I married my husband. God knew something I had yet to know and revealed it in the end.

      So, that’s my story of inter-cultural marriage and how it all worked out in the end.

      Now let’s just see if we can get through the midlife crisis years.

      How about you, how did it work out?

      • Tired February 12, 2018 at 3:44 am #

        Hi Sarah, I am from a western country. He is from a non western buddhist culture. Your story is interesting if only how it points out how ridiculous people’s views are. So the family accepts you now because you found some Jewish ancestry?

  3. Tired February 6, 2018 at 11:39 am #

    What do you think about blaming the affair partner? Sarah P says that the other woman shares some of the blame, although I do agree that the cheater is 100% accountable. But I agree there are some really nasty people out there and I think they share some of the blame for the affair.

    I feel the other woman laid a trap. He shouldn’t have fallen into it and he is a fool for doing so. I’m sure he would agree. However, sometimes the affair partner is just a bit too cunning in going about it.

    For instance:

    -Inappropriate comments at work about how she couldn’t find a man who was “normal.’ They either screamed too loudly during sex or became alcoholics or substance abusers because she broke up with them. Or they had a personality disorder. Inappropriate comments about us “why are you puffed out? Are you having sex?” on the phone to him while we were walking together and she was calling about work. These all happened way before anything happened between them. I think she was setting the trap.

    – she wanted to ‘meet me.’ So we all went out a few times with other people from his workplace. She used the time to hug him in front of me and sit there like a predator the whole evening paying him her full attention. She was very off handed to me when he wasn’t looking and even rude when he wasn’t with us.

    – she used to answer his phone at work while he was unable. So the text banner comes up and you can see at least part of the message. She commented to him that all our texts were “so boring.” Another time there was a cranky message from me and that was used as an invitation to start trashing me.

    – he had a work crisis on top of a financial one and she used this as a reason to suggest an alternative pathway. With HER, of course. She would be his business partner. Of course she didn’t mind moving across the country. Any woman would do this for her man. Except me of course. “Why doesn’t your wife support you?” Yes, don’t mind my elderly parents who have no one else.

    – she kept bringing up our fertility problems. This is the one thing she did that is most disgusting to me.

    – There is a crisis at work that my husband is very upset about and the next thing she is suggesting they “just grab something to eat” together after work. Innocently of course. “We’re just friends.”

    I don’t think this woman is totally innocent in all this. She can’t just be let off the hook because she is not the married one.

    So I kick him out and she lends him money to move out. This is pathetic. Being so desperate you try to buy someone under the guise of “helping” them. Gotta keep them apart so they can’t reconcile.

    When he comes home there is a social media campaign about lost loves quotes and swimsuit photos of herself. Embarrassing because it was public and all his work colleagues could see it.

    When that failed to lure him back: Notes stuck on his car and in our letter box professing her great love for him and how they can ‘still talk.’ Constant calls, emails and texts saying much the same. This happened right at the end when she had been told in no uncertain terms not to contact him again.

    I don’t mean to excuse his behaviour in any way but don’t you think she needs to take some responsibility?

    • TheFirstWife February 6, 2018 at 11:47 am #

      Yes. She needs to be held accountable from day 1. I agree.

      But how do you do that without going to jail for a capital one crime lol?

      • Tired February 6, 2018 at 12:41 pm #

        True, TFW. As if she will take any responsibility. She is going on with her own life happily while we are suffering. But I would hope society condemns people like her

        • TheFirstWife February 6, 2018 at 2:36 pm #

          She cannot be happy. No way.

          Unless a complete sociopath lol.

          She “appears” to be happy. So did the OW in my case. If you are “over” him and “sorry” then why contact him one month later to start up again?

          I guess the OW in my case doesn’t believe even her own lies.

        • Harlyn February 6, 2018 at 11:57 pm #

          My husband’s AP is still,after getting caught in the act with him 3 months ago denying an affair, even though my husband admitted to the whole affair, and still to this day she is stalking him

          • Tired February 7, 2018 at 10:59 am #

            Harlyn, the other woman in our case also started stalking my husband. Showing up at his work and leaving notes in our mailbox and on his car. But she did go away eventually. It scared me because I wasn’t sure how far she would go. Fortunately she found another fish to fry and eventually did go away.

            Do you worry about your safety? If you are in any way worried about this I would go to the police and get them to put a stop to it. A friend I know also had a similar problem with an ex who was stalking and they went to a lawyer who wrote a letter. She never heard from the man again. If you don’t think the person is dangerous that’s a way of solving it without getting the police involved.

            Why is she denying the affair if your husband admits it? To save face?

            • Harlyn February 7, 2018 at 4:16 pm #

              Tired….that’s how I found out she is denyiny the affair. She went to the police and wanted an AVO taken out against me, she told them that I was continually ringing, texting and turning up at her work and calling her a slut which I NEVER did, but yes I wrote her a letter and told her to back off and also what I thought of her but in that letter I never threatened her, she showed this letter to the police and that was when I was contacted, the police asked my husband if there was an affair and he told them ‘yes’ but the OW denied it and said we are just trying to cause her trouble. So you tell me WHY she is doing this! I honestly think she is obsessed but the police have spoken to her and hopefully she will stay away now.

              • Sarah P. February 7, 2018 at 11:07 pm #

                Well, you guys know how I feel. I believe in some cases the OW shares 50% of the burden. In the case if sociopathic OW’s, I think they share 70% of the burden. There are many reasons I believe this since I have had first hand experience with sociopaths. The lengths that they will go to in order to snare a man know no bounds and know no limits. Criminal conduct is not outside the scope of their behavior. Men have to fall for this, but the truth is, they are dealing with someone far more skilled than they are in all things manipulation. It’s like putting a 12-year-old in the ring with Sugar Ray Leonard and expecting the 12-year-old to beat him. The only thing the 12-year-old can do is run away. But most don’t know you have to cut all contact with sociopaths because they have no idea what they are dealing with.


              • Tired February 12, 2018 at 3:50 am #

                Harlyn, I think the police will have seen this situation before. What she is doing is trying to create drama probably because she is being ignored. I think the police are well aware of who is the real instigator here. She sounds like she has some sort of personailty disorder

    • Exercisegrace February 7, 2018 at 10:55 am #

      Tired…. I believe there is plenty of blame to share between them. We all have a moral and ethical responsibility to be decent human beings. Most of us would never walk into a friend’s home and steal their money, or willfully do permanent damage to their home, or do something to inflict mental anguish on their children. If someone did that, most people would fully support them going to jail or worse. And yet, let someone have an affair with out husbands, damaging us and our children in the process? There will be plenty of people who will not blame them. Or look for excuses for them.

      I believe there are three basic types of other woman. One type slips into the role gradually, and never intended to become an OW. This type is remorseful and genuinely regrets the affair. The second type pursues the man she is attracted to with no regard to marital status. Her attitude is “may the best woman win”. She isn’t remorseful and when caught plays the broken hearted victim card. The third type are the mentally deranged. They include narcissists, sociopaths and worse. Typically they are serial cheaters, polished and practiced at the art of affairs. I believe they know exactly what to say and do, what buttons to push to achieve the desired result. They have researched for a long time. Husband’s whore admitted she aggressively pursued him for “a long time before he gave in”. We found out later that my husband’s whore has a history of chasing older, successful married men (insert eye roll here). She is a genuine psychopath. She did immense harm. The stalking, harassing, death threats, money spent on lawyers, took an enormous toll. I doubt my husband and daughter will ever have the close relationship they once shared. His affair spiraled her into depression and self-harm. So who do I blame? Mostly him. He opened the door to this Pandora’s box. He brought this into our world. And while he couldn’t have foreseen the Fatal Attraction level of psycho we would be subjected to? It’s irrelevant. He could and should have said no. But she chose to go full frontal crazy, so I do blame her too.

      • Tired February 7, 2018 at 11:17 am #

        Exercise Grace, you truly had an awful experience. And how terrible about the effects on your daughter. No child should have to deal with that. I hope she will be ok.

        It is true some people look for excuses for cheaters where they would not accept other types of cruelty to others. It does not seem fair, but then I suppose if they are the cheater’s friend they will not be able to look at it in an unbiased way. They would probably believe the same lies the cheater told the affair partner.

        I think the type 2 you mentioned could still possibly be a sociopath. They are not necessarily violent, but they are amoral and lack empathy. Anyway, who knows. They are awful people to do that to someone. The first type is not quite so bad, but the only time I think we can fully excuse the woman is if she was led to believe the man was single. And that does happen a lot.

        The woman involved in your marriage is the scariest of all. I’m glad she is out of your lives. I’m sure such an experience will terrify your husband into never putting a foot wrong again. He must experience a lot of guilt about that. And I am sure you would be very angry about it, especially the effects on your daughter.

        Of course the cheater is always the one who should carry the most blame. I suppose it is easier to focus the anger on the other person because we don’t really want to accept what our spouse has done.

      • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 3:44 pm #

        One of my children dated a narcissistic sociopath in HS. Would not and could not get away.

        I learned first hand what a person is capable of. Scary scary and this was HS.

        I cannot imagine being married to someone like that but after reading and seeing the lies and mind games that the CS takes on during an A – I am convinced they turn crazy and narcissistic.

    • MissMee February 10, 2018 at 8:16 am #

      The OW definitely shares responsibility in my case, because we know each other, she knows our kids (We all met through our kids activities) and still she made the choice, whether conscious or not, to start seeing my h.
      I wrote to her to drive it home, which didn’t stop the affair right away because they were too “In love” (In any case that’s what my H said when I realized it was still going on).
      It felt as if her being in love with my husband gave her some kind of right, like she was entitled to keep Trying, as if they were meant to be and I was an obstacle to their happiness. I got that from my husband too, yet he never left. One day, I caught him in a lie and snapped. Told him I was done, wrote her another letter to which she answered 3 TIMES (I read one of them and straight deleted the others) with that same sense of entitlement, while telling my H I was the one harassing her. He believed her at first.
      A month later, shortly after their final breakup, I received one last one from her , blaming my husband for everything. It made me smile. I showed it to him and he was fuming.
      Funny thing is, I still run into her regularly (she works out where I work). There was a lot of anger at first, but one day, I decided to start smiling and saying hi because I got tired of showing her she had that much power on my life. She looked SO relieved. She doesn’t need to know that I’m hurting. She needs to know I’m the strongest person she’s ever met and, like I had written to her, she’s a mere chapter of my life on which I’ve turned the page, regardless of what happens next. And I think she knows it now.

      • Tired February 12, 2018 at 7:07 pm #

        Good for you MissMee. I wish I had the opportunity to come face to face with the other woman again and do the same. I think what you have done will have made her feel very small and insignificant, and that is really all these women are.

  4. TryingToGetOver February 6, 2018 at 2:45 pm #

    I have been feeling extra emotional since Sunday night. Then boom! Today on Facebook something was posted that made me remember it’s the one-year anniversary of DD #1. (#1 of three, the third and final being eight weeks ago.) It’s shocking how my body remembers exactly how I felt a year ago. Shocking and awful.
    I totally blame the OW as much as my husband. She is a boundary-less person who believes in open marriage and even as my husband apparently expressed reluctance, she’d soothe him into believing that their affair was heaven-blessed. She’s someone we’ve known for even longer than our 20-year marriage, and I have never liked her. I blame myself over and over for not being sure she was out of our lives. But I am finally learning to really speak my mind and set boundaries where I need them.
    Because she has popped in and out on us over decades, I can’t be sure she’s really GONE, and that makes me shake with nerves. My husband is doing everything he can to assure me that he’s past this, that he’s had no communication with her for 8 weeks and has blocked her on all his apps and phone, and he is indeed working on all of his own deep issues, very diligently. He texts me all day that he loves me, that he’s right beside me. He says he’s sorry. But somehow I need him to say more. Any suggestions for what that could be are welcome!
    I joked in another post that I need him to say “You’re right, she is a total B–ch and a psycho” but he refuses to bad-mouth her even as she tried to destroy us. But would him bad-mouthing her really help me? Or would I remain stuck on, “then how did you fall for that?!?!”
    UGH. I really hope time heals my anger and resentment. My therapist is trying to get me to work on forgiveness but I tell her that at the moment, I still feel kind of far from that.

    • Tired February 7, 2018 at 10:30 am #

      Trying to get over, I can completely understand that feeling. I was a bundle of nerves for three months when I wasn’t sure if the affair was over or not. I couldn’t find any proof of it but I had this gut feeling they were still in touch. I kept digging and eventually I did find proof. I don’t think they were still having an affair at that point. I think he was trying to fob her off. The problem is he was too nice about it and she didn’t get the message! It only properly went no contact when he realised she was never going to go away if he wasn’t firm. And because she started to behave more and more desperate he got sick of it all.

      You say your husband has been doing all the right things, but I still understand how you would worry that she will pop up again. The other woman in our relationship was not someone he knew for a long time so it is probably a bit easier. But it was a relief when I discovered she has someone else. I still wonder if something goes wrong in her relationship will she start trying to contact my husband again. I can only hope that he will not respond. I believe he will not. But then again…

      I hate this day and age of smart phones and internet. People can intrude into your home at any time of the day or night. But I suppose if we can’t trust our husbands we really shouldn’t be with them. It sucks, I know

      It would also have given me some satisfaction to me if he had insulted her too, but he never says anything bad about anyone and that’s just how he is. The closest he came is when he said he got sick of her nagging. Because she kept trying to convince him he wanted to leave me. She started calling him stupid. I think that was an eye opener.

      I don’t believe she was a good person, but my husband is too trusting. I just hope he did see that her words and actions were not those of a nice person. Especially her conduct after there was well and truly no contact. Hopefully your husband has too. It has been over two years for us.

      I don’t know how I would deal with it if the affair had gone on for a whole year though.

  5. Puzzled February 6, 2018 at 3:02 pm #

    Trying: All I can say is TIME. Time will heal. But it will take a lot of time for you. I mean a lot of time. I’m at three years and I still hurt. The proof from your husband is time. He needs to be a rock of truth, integrity, honesty, transparency, and love with no wavering. I know it hurts. I know your pain all too well. My wife hit me with the ILYBINILWY speech in March of 2015, needed “space” to figure things out, treated me like garbage for months, and then I caught her texting her AP in June of 2015. She continued denying and gaslighting for months. She ignored me. She made plans without me. She treated me like the enemy. It wasn’t until July/August of 2016 that she really wasn’t distant. The last 18 months have been great at times and difficult at times. But time will tell how we rebuild our lives.

    I’ve posted this before and I fully believe it’s true for all of us:
    Our first marriage ended the day she decided to cheat. Our second marriage is whatever we make from here forward.

    Give it time but keep working on you. And keep working on your marriage.

  6. Rose February 6, 2018 at 7:41 pm #

    I’ve been seeing a new therapist who is fantastic, and I’m working on “detaching”; i.e., I can’t change him, I can only change my reactions/responses. I also can’t leave yet for a multitude of reasons. She says, he is going to continue his Facebook use and there’s nothing I can do (short of leaving), so why not start to ignore it? She says think of all the time you spend spying on that, looking at the phone bill, email, texts…he is not going to change no matter what I do so I need to start expending that energy on myself. There are SO many things I want to do that she said I just need to do them and make myself happy. For example, things he cannot physically do like skiing, yoga, etc. And she said I should just TELL him I’m going out with friends and do not invite him like I always do because I don’t want to get the sad face and hear how I just ignore him. He can continue his little friendships on FB with single women, and I can pursue all the things I want to do. I feel better just having someone say it’s okay to do whatever I want to do.

    • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 7:05 am #

      Glad to hear of some positive changes.

      You will start to feel differently about things soon.

      You will start to gain some control over your life. And that will make you feel stronger and more confident.

      Maybe it will give your H a good kick in the pants.

      Do not let him shame or guilt you into believing you are doing anything wrong. If he protests you can and should inform him that his online friendships left you feeling neglected so you have decided to get back to some hobbies and interests with all the free time you have.

      • Tired February 7, 2018 at 10:34 am #

        TFW gives very good advice Rose. What she says is very true. He needs a good kick in the pants. Let him worry about losing you for a change.

        • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 12:17 pm #

          Thank you. In a different post I suggested to Rose her options. She can detach knowing he is not going to change.

          Start her own social life apart from him. Not cheating but doing things she enjoys while he plays flirty flirty online with other women.

          All’s fair as my Mom would say.

          And detach in orher ways as well. How interesting the therapist said the same thing.

  7. Nearly Normal February 7, 2018 at 10:46 am #

    Hi, everybody.

    I just want to use the open mic to say that life is pretty good right now. My wife and I are getting along swimmingly. We have a visit from daughter, son-in-law, and grandchild (with another on the way!).

    All in all, hard to be down right now.

    • Tired February 7, 2018 at 12:12 pm #

      Congratulations Nearly Normal. That’s great to hear.

    • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 12:13 pm #

      Glad to hear the good news. Enjoy!

    • Shifting Impressions February 7, 2018 at 1:07 pm #

      Nearly Normal
      That’s wonderful to hear. Amazing the joy those little grandchildren can bring. For us enjoying the little grandchildren together has been a really big part of our healing. We laugh together about all their little antics. They have also been a great motivator for us to work on our relationship.

      Enjoy them!!!

      • Nearly Normal February 7, 2018 at 3:11 pm #

        Thanks, everybody

  8. Exercisegrace February 7, 2018 at 11:03 am #

    Tired, a comment you made is making me curious. You mentioned she wanted to meet you. This was also the case with my husband’s whore. He said she was very, very persistent that he figure out a way to invite her to our home. She wanted to meet me and the kids, see our home, and God knows what else. WHY? One would think you’d want to stay as far away from the wife and family as possible!
    Any one else deal with this? The skank wanting to be a part of your/your children’s lives??

    • Rose February 7, 2018 at 11:25 am #

      Yep, I met the second OW. We got a week of free gym time at a local place. He insisted we go one night. I remember clearly because work was super busy and I didn’t have time but I went with him. There she was, poor little butt-ugly skank. She called him Mr. “Smith” because he had been her driving teacher…even though he was only 10 years older. I had no idea at the time. Later when I asked why he did that, he shrugged and said “she wanted to meet you.” Whhhyyy?? No answer.

      • TheFirstWife February 7, 2018 at 2:51 pm #

        Yup first EA OW of 4 years wanted to meet.

        So we did. We were all friends.

        After the OW made a comment I realized she was more interested in my H than I realized. Because the 1st time I met her I told my H watch your back / she likes you more than a friend. He laughed. I laughed.

        But 4 years in (after socializing with her for years) she called ME and wanted to know if it was ok to have my H go as her date to a friend’s wedding.

        My H had just arrived home and I said to the OW “hold on he just walked in” and I handed him the phone (landlines back then) and told him what she wanted.

        The look on his face is imbedded in my memory. He was horrified AND knew what was coming next.

        He still continued to stonewall and gaslight.

    • Sarah P. February 7, 2018 at 11:59 pm #


      I would bet money that the OW was surveying her ‘future kingdom.’ This is what ‘skin suits’ do. They find out every detail of their target’s life and try to get to know the children, if possible. Then they plan on how they can quietly slip into the role of the wife while they quietly shove the actual wife out. And if they succeed, not a tear is shed. After all, they did this for the good of the family. In their mind’s the wife is the wicked witch and they are saving the husband and children from the wicked witch. They are so delusional they see it as a selfless act.

      That’s how it was with this nurse who broke up a doctor’s 20 year marriage. The people who saw it go down and who were objective describe the wife (who was left) as a saint. She is a doctor and did all these free medical missions in 3rd world countries using her own funds. (Oh what a terrible witch, right?) On the other hand, everyone could easily see the nurse was a manipulative sociopath. They watched the nurse groom him at work over many months until he gave in. She convinced him that his wife made him miserable and that she was the key to his happiness. After she successfully got them divorced (and she divorced her husband too) she told everyone at the clinic that she ‘saved him from an abusive marriage.’ Everyone who knows the ex-wife knows this could not be further from the truth. The nurse on the other hand is prone to unprofessional screaming fits. (Whose the witch again?) The dumbass had the stupidity to marry her and she snagged him with the oldest trick in the book: she texted him sexual innuendos all day long and sent nasty photos. She gave him the promise of never-ending and dirty sex. (Let’s see how long that lasts after they are married for a while, because frankly, I just don’t see this particular woman following through on that.) It was purely a manipulation. And he was ‘stoopid’ enough to think with the wrong head– the head that always screws up your life. And she was fired from her job so now he gets to support her and her three kids. And she has told him he is no longer allowed to pay for his kid’s college. The stupidity of some men knows no bounds.

  9. Tired February 7, 2018 at 11:57 am #

    Exercise Grace. Well the skank never came to my home. But she wanted to keep going out with us. I was trying to support him by accepting his work friends so I went a few times. The first time I thought it was completely innocent on her part. Later I started to get suspicious of her motives. That caused arguments between us and I think that is what she wanted. I think she did it because she had her eye on my husband and she was trying to look for weaknesses to exploit. He sees it now. She did not really want to meet me, she wanted to find a way to tear me down and point out my faults to my husband.

    She was very persistent about it too. So we did go out a few times with her and his other work colleagues. She was way over friendly with my husband, draping herself over him, hugging him and focussing all her attention on him. I was upset about it and told him when we got home that I didn’t like it. He thought I was being silly. Well she used that against me later during the affair to say I was “controlling.’ I know the look on my face when she hugged him was probably not one of pleasure because I was shocked at the way she behaved and the way he went along with it…but I did not say anything at the time. I thought it was disrespectful to say the least.

    This was later fed back to me by him when the affair started…she had said I gave her a ‘bad feeling.’ And other colleagues (all female) had said the same thing. That was one of the excuses for the affair. Only the feedback all came from her to him so who knows if they actually said it. They probably did because they were her friends and all young, single and immature. But my feeling was that I didn’t like this woman and the way she was too over friendly with my husband. I could see boundaries were being crossed. I know for a fact that this was after she had seen a text message from me complaining about something he did that annoyed me. I did not know this at the time.

    It was totally calculated. I was ‘controlling’ I didn’t ‘want him to have friends.’ I was a bad person who gave out a “bad vibe.” This is what she said to him to help his justification of the affair. Why should I be happy about my husband’s friends all being young, single women? I always knew she was the only one who was a threat though. I don’t believe that they were involved at the time but she was setting a trap. And I could see his ego lapping it up too. It was very clever, because later when the shit hit the fan and he had his work crisis she was there to tell him how awful it was that his boss didn’t understand him and neither did his wife. How SHE would solve all his problems if they only ran off into the sunset together?

    So in answer to your question EG, I think your husband’s affair partner wanted to check out what you had because she wanted it for herself. So she came to your house to look for things to pick at that she would sneakily introduce into conversations with your husband to try to put you down and make herself out the better option.

    • Exercisegrace February 7, 2018 at 3:28 pm #

      Tired, I think you’re right. It’s like these crazies have a handbook. In the time period she was still pretending to be my friend, she would ask me loaded questions such as “gosh Husband works so many hours. That must really get old. Does it bother you?”. Luckily I saw through it all and refused to trash him to her, and told her the truth. I appreciated how hard he worked for us.

      I also began to hear things parroted back to me from the whore. When I expressed my concerns about their relationship I was branded as “crazy” ” paranoid” “jealous” “controlling”. I was told I was trying to destroy his business by keeping him distracted and fighting with me. She even offered parenting advice (we had two difficult and exhausting three year olds at the time). Particularly laughable because she had said in a message to him that kids were “not her thing”. Biggest joke of all? He threatened several times to have me committed. He told me I needed help. In the last few months before I found out about the affair, I began sobbing one day and said I was ready to go get counseling. I had been diagnosed with bleeding ulcers from stress, and I had asked him yet again if there was anything going on. He swore there wasn’t, and then said if went to therapy he would view it as the first step towards divorce court. A-hole move of the year. I believe he KNEW a trained therapist would know immediately what was going on and out his lies.

      • Rose February 7, 2018 at 3:38 pm #

        What’s the name for that when the sociopathic narcissistic cheating abuser starts the name calling? Is it part of gaslighting? Because that when on for a year after his last EA. Shone a light in my face and called me crazy at midnight.

        • Sarah P. February 7, 2018 at 11:26 pm #

          Yes, it is a form of gaslighting and it is born out of narcissistic wounding, which leads to narcissistic rage. And during a narcissistic rage a narcissist will do or say anything to break you. Their goal is to make you have a psychotic break so that they can show everyone how ‘crazy’ you are.

          This then helps them feel superior and entitled to everything they have done. They cannot bear to think you were right and they were wrong. It sends them over the edge.

  10. Angela February 8, 2018 at 5:14 am #

    A few months ago, my H just really “got it”. He finally comprehended, to a reasonable degree, just how much pain and damage he’d wreaked in our marriage.

    I now find myself not really trusting his empathy and remorse. It’s taken so long to get here, I literally don’t know if he just knows the right words or if he’s sincere.

    I also feel kind of numb inside now. Where before I felt indescribable pain and anxiety, I’m just kind of non-responsive. He’s complaining that he is reaching out but he needs me to reach back, but I just literally feel incapable of responding.

    It’s been a little over 3 years and I’m afraid it’s just taken so long for him to “get it” that I fear it’s too little, too late. Or is this a normal stage of healing?

    We have stopped fighting and communicate much better. He doesn’t get angry or defensive or blaming with me anymore. I’d have given anything for him to be this way a year ago, but I just don’t feel the enthusiasm or relief I expected to feel when he finally came around.

    • Puzzled February 8, 2018 at 10:22 am #

      Angela: I fully understand your situation. It’s almost three years for me and sometimes I just feel like my wife “knows” how she should act. I hate feeling this way. I also dreamt of the day that my wife would simply talk to me. And, to hear the words “I love you”, seemed impossible. I guess it’s our minds keeping us in protection mode. For so long, it was a battle of emotions on a daily basis. How would I get through today? How would she treat me? How much contempt would be in her eyes? But then she changed. And maybe this was the same for you: she decided that she wanted back in so in her mind it was “let’s leave every shitty thing that I’ve said, done, how I treated you, looked at you and leave it in the past”.

      We are in a much better place. But, she’s never been fully honest with me and that will forever bother me. We are rebuilding but, sadly, I don’t fully trust her. I’m not sure when or if that will happen. Affairs destroy. They destroy trust, honesty, integrity, character, vows, naiviety, self-esteem, self-worth. We can work at recreating much of these but I’m not sure the cheating spouse can ever understand the bond of trust that was destroyed. Things will never “be the same”. They will be different. Somethings might be better but somethings might be worse.

      • Shifting Impressions February 8, 2018 at 8:16 pm #

        I couldn’t agree more…..well said!!!

      • Lynsey February 10, 2018 at 6:14 am #

        Puzzled, I totally agree I’m 5 years out from my H’s EA and still feel & think all the things you mentioned, probably always will.

      • MissMee February 10, 2018 at 9:04 am #

        I agree 100%. And I’m glad I read that as I have intense internal struggles 1 year, 3 months since D-day.

        I’m still trying to figure things out and do so mostly on my own as my H still hasn’t fully grasped the damage he’s done and has yet to start his own healing journey.

    • Hopeful February 8, 2018 at 6:27 pm #

      Angela, I think we all have different paths and timelines. And I do think it can feel like a roller coaster. We are almost at 3 years since dday. Things are really good but a few things surprised me. The first year was horrible for me. Once I started to improve I saw my husband let his guard down. He had ended both affairs 15 months before dday so I thought he must be past it and also I thought he decided to start these affairs. Well I was so wrong I honestly think in the end he hurt himself the worst. I know he beats himself up every day. I figured he did it, loved it but then ended it and was done. Well he was done but he struggles so much with his actions way more than I do. I think there are a lot of phases to this.

      The other thing is my expectations have elevated significantly. So where we were on dday, one year out, two years out etc is so different. I find that i do get nervous that we will slip back into our old routine.

      And for us at least we both want to continue to work hard at our marriage/relationship. We have had such intense talks and at the core we want to be together, be a team and support each other as much as possible. I have asked myself often if I want to be with my husband and am I better off with him in my life and I always answer yes.

    • Shifting Impressions February 8, 2018 at 8:15 pm #

      I can relate to what you are feeling as well. Puzzled put it really well. It has been four years since d-day for me. It has just been in the last year that some of my more loving feelings have returned.

      The feelings have started to return in small ways….sort of slowly seeping back. I don’t know if they ever fully understand what they have broken….Puzzled said it so well!!! I don’t know if I will ever really understand how he could have done what he did to me, Something triggered me last night but I am much better at handling triggers.

      It is a long arduous journey, there is no doubt of that. We as betrayed spouses are left with an epic battle to fight within ourselves, due to no fault of our own.

      I really noticed a change within myself, after reading the book IT TAKES ONE TO TANGO by Winifred Reilly. It really helped me realize how much personal power we have in our own response.

      Another question I often ask myself is “What is true today?”

      I wish you the best….take care of you.

  11. Doug February 8, 2018 at 9:41 am #

    Hey guys, I just wanted to announce that our illustrious Sarah P. has a post that has been published on the Gottman Institute website on suicide prevention. You can read it here:

    Check it out and add a comment if you so desire. Thanks!

    Congrats Sarah!

    • Hopeful February 8, 2018 at 6:27 pm #

      That is incredible!!! The Gottmans are favorites of mine. I am going to read it right now!!

      • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 5:58 pm #

        Hi Hopeful,

        Hoped you liked the article. It was a really scary time for our family.


        • Hopeful February 12, 2018 at 2:47 pm #

          That was an excellent article with great information and suggestions to help. I think most people become scared and do not know what to do. We talk about it often since my husband is in the mental health field. And we have called many parents since kids say things. And there is no way especially for my kids to know if they are joking or not. Or is it a cry for help. So we error on the side of caution always.

          I am so sorry to hear you had to experience it with your son but I am so glad you had the understanding and skills to recognize the signs and then the strength to help him. We must all be vigilant and supportive!

  12. Shifting Impressions February 8, 2018 at 7:49 pm #

    That’s great, Sarah. Wonderful article. I am so sorry you had to go through that with your son. I hope he is doing well. Thank you for making all of us more aware.

    • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 4:30 pm #

      Hi Shifting,

      Yes, it has been a very hard time indeed. I am grateful that the Gottmans were willing to let me use their blog to help spread awareness. I do not want any parent to lose a child. I know people who have lost them and they NEVER get over it.


  13. Rose February 8, 2018 at 11:50 pm #

    So, here what happened today in the world of Facebook. H posted an article about how someone said that people who do yoga are under demonic power. Meaning to be funny, he commented “Well I guess that’s what happened to me!” My comment was “Must be some other reason since you’ve only done yoga once” you know, in order to impress the OW that he too is a Zen Buddhist yogi. While I was at work, he deleted the last 3 years of FB posts along with ALL his pictures…dogs, kids, grandkids…not to worry tho, there were none of me anyway. Then he went to bed at 730. I didn’t and won’t say a word. He’s a drama queen and I’m sure he’ll blame me for his little breakdown but whatever, Ill give him the same blank stare he’s given me every time I’ve asked if we can talk.Oh and in response to the pretty picture of myself I posted several days ago…he finally liked it this morning. I wonder how many of the OW’s posts he loved in the past few days.

    • TheFirstWife February 9, 2018 at 6:34 am #

      Rose I don’t know how you have the strength AND patience to endure this.

      But it seems as though your change in behavior has been acknowledged by him.

      However do not change you!

      No matter what happens – if he changes or not – continue to do things for you!! Don’t stop having your own social network and your own interests.

      I hope you continue on your healing path.

    • Tired February 12, 2018 at 7:35 pm #

      Seriously it is pathetic that a man with actual grandchildren is posting these silly things as though he is a teenager! I don’t know how you put up with it Rose. Ha ha, it sounds like you’re getting some of your own back though.

  14. Thriving February 9, 2018 at 12:40 pm #

    What about the feelings of the WS? He has owned his actions and is truly remorseful. He is still so wracked with guilt & can’t seem to forgive himself. He regularly fights triggers. I know the big picture but he knows every tiny detail and it makes him physically sick that he could have done such a thing. Everything I read is geared toward the BS and what the WS needs to do to help him/her heal. What about a genuinely remorseful spouse? I think we tend to assume that once they admit/get caught and own up that they just easily put it behind them, that there is no struggle on their end. He has done so much to help me heal, how can I help him heal (or can I?)?

    • Shifting Impressions February 13, 2018 at 2:23 am #

      I don’t think it is easy for the cheating spouse to put it behind them….I know my husband didn’t. But in all honesty I don’t have a lot of sympathy. He made his choice and unfortunately has to live with the consequences of those choices. I had no choice in the matter but also had to live with the consequences,

      Saying that, I did work hard to not rub his nose in it….so to speak. I love my husband and care but I don’t think I’m the one to help him heal.

    • Tired February 14, 2018 at 6:58 pm #

      Thriving, I know what you mean. I would like my husband to read some of this stuff but I think that we would probably look like a bunch of vindictive cows to wayward spouses if they are really sorry for what they have done. I think my husband too is suffering. He is embarrassed and ashamed and I think he wishes I would not keep reminding him of it. But then, that is the price they pay and hopefully they would not be so stupid next time.

      In our case this is what I think: From my husband’s point of view…he thought the woman was madly in love with him. However, once he made it clear he was not going to contact her again she almost immediately became impregnated by another man. I don’t think any other action could speak so loudly about her true intentions. So I am thinking he probably feels like a real fool now for causing all this trouble for a woman who didn’t really mean what she said to him. He would have been a means to an end for her and that is all. And he destroyed all the trust between us in the meantime.

      I’m sure there is stuff that WS could read on other sites that support them (hopefully in their endeavours to be better husbands and not glorifying the cheating). My husband has mentioned that he has done a lot of self reflection and sometimes he says things that indicate he has been reading articles. I hope he has found a sensible site that will help him.

      My husband has done a lot to help me heal too. But the thing is, the things he thinks will help me heal are not the things I need to help me heal. I think at best we can try to help them heal in the way they need. In my case it means shutting up about the affair.

  15. Rose February 9, 2018 at 12:50 pm #

    So now he’s baiting me. He sent me a message that said “I eliminated all my posts and messages and here’s my password so you can monitor me.” He knows this normally would get me livid. Is the best response none? Or say “You do you” or go into a tirade about the damage he’s done? Tell him to go to his happy place? It’s incredibly hard for most of us to say silent.

    • Rose February 9, 2018 at 2:28 pm #

      Lol, what I really should say is “Well if you had nothing to hide, why did you delete it all before giving me the password??” Idiot. I’ve already hacked in anyway and saw it ALL but he doesn’t know that. Still remain silent?

      • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 4:48 pm #

        Hi Rose,

        I guess I would either stay silent. Or tell him that you are not his keeper and that whatever it is he does is between him and his higher power. Reiterate that as adults, we are responsible for ourselves. Whatever you do is on you and whatever he does is on him– he can only monitor himself. This is basically the longer version of “you do you” because sometimes people need it spelled out clearly.

        If you take the bait to monitor him you enter the codependent dance. You don’t do it willingly, it’s just that you unknowingly take the bait. It sounds like he likes drama.

        I don’t know if you have heard that story about the zen master and the student. The zen master is having a tea ceremony. He informs his student if he drinks the tea, he gets hit with the zen master’s stick. However, if he doesn’t drink the tea, he still gets hit. The student doesn’t say a word and wisely grabs the stick from the master and keeps it. For whatever reason it came to me that this is how you need to deal with your H, especially since he thinks he is some kind of yoga master.

        Resist the drama and take his darn stick away! Disempower him and show him who is in control.

        So is your H a narcissist or does he just have narcissistic tendencies? If he is a narcissist, the best thing you can do is pretend he doesn’t exist. But since you can’t do that, go to the Out of the Fog website and read up on the ‘gray rock’ technique.

        • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 4:50 pm #


          Rose, it also occurred to me that if you take your H’s password, he will just set up another Facebook account and trot along playing his mind games.

          • Rose February 9, 2018 at 4:56 pm #

            Thanks so much Sarah. I hadn’t heard of gray rock but that’s how Ill play it. I might answer his message with a simple “ok.” It will drive him nuts. I’m not sure of the diff between being a narcissist and having traits. Also I’m in IT so thinking he has to “give” me a password is ludicrous. Even so he leaves his FB open on 2 computers and I know how to delete history…been doing that for 5 years and he has no idea. But I’m tired, really tired, which us why my therapist said to detach.

            • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 5:56 pm #

              Hi Rose,

              I worked in information technology for many years before “retiring” and entering the field of psychology.

              The thing about us IT gals is that we know how to sleuth well on people’s computers and on the internet. Your husband obviously has no idea who he is dealing with.

              Definitely check into the gray rock technique. And if he mentions demons again I double dare you to tell him (with an absolutely serious face) about certain body parts being possessed and the need for an exorcist. I would love to see his reaction to that one!! It would be epic.

              • Rose February 11, 2018 at 7:34 pm #

                I’ve gone gray rock this weekend and its driving him nuts. I didn’t cook and kept busy cleaning. No sex, nuh uh, not a chance. I also unfriended him on FB. I figure that’s good detachment. However I did just friend the OW like this: “Hi Susie, I love the posts of yours that H reposts. I too have been getting more into Buddhism and inner peace, and H speaks so highly of you I knew we could be friends too!” That is going to also drive him nuts, lol. Oh we were talking before about much the OW is to blame and here actually not at all I think. He is doing the pathetic pursuit and she’s not responding except in a nonchalant way. So this ones on him. She even seems like someone I could be “real” friends with but that won’t happen for sure.

                • TheFirstWife February 12, 2018 at 1:03 pm #

                  Good for you. You are getting your power back in the relationship.

                  I just remember every time my H said “I want a D” I replied “ok”. And the minute I said “ok” with no crying or pleading and started detaching – he changed his mind.

                  He begged for a second chance.

                  At DDay2 I took control of MY life back. We have R but on my terms. Not mean or nasty but I was no longer a doormat.

                  Your counselor will be proud of you too!👍🏻

          • Sarah P. February 9, 2018 at 5:00 pm #


            Rose, that thing about possibly being under demonic power is hilarious. What’s his view on religion? Does he believe in demons?

            I don’t know how brash you can be or if you are brash at all. Even though I consider myself “a lady,” I would seriously be tempted to say: “I think that demon must have entered your p***** so maybe we need to call the local Priest to perform an exorcism. I hear exorcisms are quite painful…let’s call the Priest now.”

            Please excuse me if I offended you. You see, I have a little imp that lives inside my brain and when people say really stupid and off-the-wall things, the imp comes out and just has to say something about it. (Hopefully, I made you laugh.)


            • Rose February 9, 2018 at 5:14 pm #

              Lol no offense at all! We grew up Catholic but haven’t been religious for many years. He thought the article was funny, not serious. But when I saw what he said about how that MUST be his problem (you know, because of the yoga expert he is) I had to call him on it with my own snarky comment. Apparently that was monitoring him. Let me say here I rarely if ever comment on or even like his posts because they are a) him being a phony or b) political and I’m sick of both. So my comment led him to having some sort of meltdown. Whatever. You’re probably right, I’ll bet he made another profile

  16. Rose February 13, 2018 at 1:21 am #

    Totally new subject but I’d like opinions (not judgment please). H has had at least 3 EAs and is pursuing someone right now (who is not responding to him but still). Of course he doesn’t think he has done anything wrong, EVER, ad nauseum. Some of my story revolves around his Facebook use (or abuse). Now I’ve unfriended him. I don’t need the drama. Anyway so there’s this guy (oh, there it goes, right?). He is an old high school friend I simply crushed on then…he now lives 3000 miles from me so there is nothing that could happen. He’s still gorgeous (and newly single). Anyway he is constantly flirting with me, tells me I’m beautiful, etc….right out in public! Yep, it was and is wrong for a married person like my H to be flirting online. But I am damned lonely and sad and emotionally a wreck from 30 years of damage from this narcissistic sociopath. This could not possibly go anywhere but if we were closer…I’m afraid it might. I just am feeling like I need to be happy before I get old. I have undergone so much crap and am starting to feel entitled. Does anyone feel this way? Up until this last year I wouldn’t have even considered anything like that, having had it done to me. But with H’s attitude, thumbing his nose at me and thinking it’s fine to be flirting online with OW…is what’s okay for the gander okay for the goose? Or do I stifle it? Signed, Confused

    • TheFirstWife February 13, 2018 at 8:30 am #

      Hard and tough call.

      I understand your position and can feel your pain.

      I think this guy is a player and less than what you are deserving but the attention and flattery is intoxicating.

      I would not behave the way your H is/has for a number of reasons. I personally would back off. But that is me and my own personal reasons. But you understand the boundaries in a M.

      Just don’t fall for this guy. Okay to FB chat. Just don’t develop feelings that could add more pain and misery to your life.

    • MissMee February 13, 2018 at 8:37 am #

      Rose, all I can say is don’t do anything you’d regret. Don’t lower your expectations of yourself and jeopardize your integrity because your H felt it was ok for him to do so.
      I believe that you should leave your H before doing anything because if anything, that would empower you. That would also not give him any additional excuses to do what he’s doing.
      Its already tough as back to deal with a situation you had zero control over, so don’t burden yourself with something if you’re not sure you can deal with th3 consequences. Because we all know there are always consequences, on you and those in your life.
      You do you!!

    • Hopeful February 13, 2018 at 12:45 pm #

      I personally would not engage at all with this person. I think emotional affairs can be as powerful and destructive as physical affairs if not even worse. For me when I found out about my husband’s affairs I decided that I would work my hardest to repair our marriage. I also knew I would keep my integrity. I had and still have zero interest in anyone. My husband had said he had the luxury of knowing I have the highest integrity possible. I can put my head on my pillow every night and feel good about myself. No one can take that away from me. If I ever felt the need to even consider talking with someone else I would separate first. I hold myself to the same if not higher standard than I expect of my husband and I will not lower those standards. Then I am just like him. I also think all the sayings are right the grass is not greener, two wrongs do not make a right….etc

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 1:39 pm #

      Hi rose , I just want to let you know that is exactly what my husband did with an ex-girlfriend and it became a four year emotional affair. I believe you’re going to set yourself up for something that would not be good if you’re trying to keep your marriage intact. Because those type of affairs if it’s an old boyfriend ignite fast. I would only contact if you were ready to divorce your husband. My husband and her Did this for four years and he eventually broke it off with her.

    • Shifting Impressions February 13, 2018 at 5:39 pm #

      I doubt that would make you happy. If your marriage is so miserable maybe it’s time for separation. Maybe it’s time to walk away….only you know the answer. Engaging in an affair yourself will probably just cause you more heartache in the long run.

      If you can’t afford separate residences…split the house in half and file for a legal separation, Sounds crazy but I think that’s what I would do with someone who shows no sign of stopping his behavior and shows no remorse.

    • Tired February 14, 2018 at 7:17 pm #

      Rose, here is my two cents worth. I would not do it

      1. A person who flirts with a married person is bad news. You may end up with someone exactly like your current husband and in the same boat in a few years down the track.

      2. If your husband gets wind of it I will bet he will use it as ammunition against you and as an excuse to keep carrying on with his disrespectful behaviour.

      3. If you did end up leaving your current husband for this guy, your husband would use this to blacken your name and would probably present himself to all and sundry as the victim of a cheating wife.

      Do not do it.

      I can understand the temptation and your need for love. Your situation is very sad. However, I think if you want to experience romance do it after you have ended things with your husband. And do it with a new man. Now THAT would give your husband the kick in the pants he deserves.

  17. Cross Road February 13, 2018 at 6:18 am #

    So it’s been 1.5 years since my wife had an EA. It was with a high school friend that she saw at a class reunion. I have gone through what I feel and have read are very typical stages of the recovery process. We have been seeing a few different therapists and feel that we have found one that is truly helping us better understand how we got to the point of the EA. All this is great but here are my questions? Regardless of what made her do the EA 1. Can you ever truly forgive the other person for such a selfish act? 2. Can you ever look at her in the same way with the same respect and love that you once had? 3. Will she ever be completely honest with sharing all of the details?

    I am scared that I am reaching a point that regardless of how much counseling I get, that I am thinking that none of my questions are possible and that in order for my true happiness in life I need to cut bait with the cheater.

    Appreciate any perspectives.

    • TheFirstWife February 13, 2018 at 9:25 am #

      That is a tough call. Only you can decide if you can forgive.

      For some any infidelity is a deal breaker. No matter what.

      One thing that has helped me is to focus on TODAY. my H is not the same person he was before the A (and he was a good H and dad even then) or during the A.

      My H has made many changes and is remorseful and shows me every day I am his #1 priority.

      At DDay2 (b/c one DDAY wasn’t enough) he demanded a D. Was dumping me for the OW.

      And was not his first A – he had a 4 year EA 20 years ago.

      Point is we have survived and recovered and we have a good M. Not without scars. Not without painful memories.

      But we CHOSE to recover and stay together. Counseling helped me tremendously. He did not go much. His choice.

      Hope this helps you.

      • Rose February 13, 2018 at 11:33 am #

        Thanks TFW. My H won’t go to counseling. He only pretends online to be a deep thinker. But it helps me.

    • Rose February 13, 2018 at 11:35 am #

      I would forgive my H if he learned his lesson, but after 3 EAs he has not. He is also not apologetic or remorseful. If he truly had tried I may have forgiven him. I’m sorry for what you are going through. Great support here.

    • Rose February 13, 2018 at 11:36 am #

      Also no, you will most likely never know all the details. I have no respect for my H any longer.

      • TheFirstWife February 13, 2018 at 1:01 pm #

        St the point you have no love or respect the M is dead. Now you get to decide what you wish to do.

        And I think what you are doing now by putting yourself first works for you. You are detaching and moving away from having him be the focus of your life.

        Good for you. The further away you get the better you will be.

        And… start getting your plan B in place. If you decide to leave – when it will happen, financial plan, estate plan, health plan, children plan if necessary, etc.

        If he suddenly falls ill will you take care of him? Would you stay around?

        If he suddenly started making amends b/c he meant it would you stay? Is it too late? It may be. Only you know.

        My suggestion is to always be one step ahead.

        My strength comes in knowing my last child is graduating school in 18 months. I can then have options on where I live if my M fails. I have a plan in place. I can very easily extricate myself b/c the only joint asset we have is our house and bank account.

        Everything else is separate. Cars and credit cards are all in single name. No joint. I did this years ago when he was ready to D me. Never changed it after the fact.

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 11:47 am #

      Hi crossroad, my husband had a emotional affair with a ex girlfriend from over 27 years ago! He contacted her when we had broken up, we were not married at the time and had gotten back together. It lasted 4 years! I did not get very much information nor had I saw any emails which I would rather not see any way. I still think about this more than I care to. I try to not dwell on it too much ! I also quit looking at her Facebook which is a good thing! It was causing more harm to me than I thought! I try to take a day at a time which makes it easier for me ! I try to stay focused on today and I want to leave the pain behind me . We are going to make it! I love him very much! Hang in there, take a day at a time and try to be positive. Good luck to you!

      • CrossRoads February 13, 2018 at 8:28 pm #


        Thanks for the insight. My pain is so deep that the person I have given 28 years of my life to could do what she did. Am I perfect, absolutely not but for her to knowingly do what she did and engage with some other man the way she did is unforgivable in my opinion. I truly wish I felt differently but my gut is warning me.

        • TheFirstWife February 14, 2018 at 10:38 am #

          CrossRoads. I understand your pain. My H’s first 4 year A was an EA with a girl he was in grad school with. Now he was not in love with her but she was madly in love with him.

          He knew the friendship crossed the acceptable line – but in the 90s there was no EA term. He denied and gaslit me the entire time.

          It finally ended after I exploded one night. And then swept under the rug.

          Fast forward to last A and he admitted to that OW he knew the first EA was wrong and admitted it all.

          When I found that out I was beyond furious. That was harder to get over (for me) than him dumping me for the OW. I believed it took a cold calculating person to do that (IMO).

          Now he regrets all of it and sees where he was wrong. And he has changed. And makes amends and tries every day.

          That is how I was able to forgive him. Just admit you were broken and made poor choices and will do better. And then do it.

          Some people just can’t do those simple things.

          I have known my H 35 years and M 30 years this year. We celebrated our 25th in the middle of his A. No one would believe he would ever be “that kind of guy”.

          I am glad he finally “got it” b/c there are no more opportunities for mistakes any more.

          I would D him tomorrow if I had to (sadly).

          But yet we are happy – go figure.

        • Hopeful1 February 14, 2018 at 10:11 pm #

          Crossroad, it has been over 3 years ago since the last contact with her ! I believe at 1&1/2 years I was at the stage you were . Wasn’t sure if it could work out for us because I was still not trusting, still hurting to much ! I tried to talk to him about it and he just couldn’t deal with me bringing it up again and again. I decided to let it go little by little,and it was starting to help. I would read the blogs on here which helped me. I also have books to read! We have been together for 25 years! And I am glad I hung in there!

    • Hopeful February 13, 2018 at 12:56 pm #

      I agree this is very personal. My therapist helped me a lot in this area. I know I will never know everything since my husband had two affairs over 10 years. He cannot even remember what year one began. My therapist and I talked it over a lot. We got to the point of will there ever be enough or all information disclosed and will it help me recover. I think it is important to know the critical pieces of info. I think it is Esther Perel said ask the important questions. I wanted to know how did it make you feel, when and why did you contact each other, where did you meet, etc. then our focus really started to zero in on what type of marriage do you want today and in the future. Is that possible. What needs to change. Are you willing to work for that. At a certain point at around a year past ddday I shifted from affair recovery to working on our marriage. For my husband it took longer. I was very surprised by this.

      As far as forgiveness goes I have forgiven him for what he did. But never to forget. He thinks about it every day. I watch closely his actions most. Words are great but actions show the true effort. He has verbalized his goal is to live his life with transparency and authenticity every day and to be the best husband and father as his number one priority. I honestly look at him and think it is sad since he hurt and betrayed himself he most. He lives with this burden and biggest error in judgement ever. Nothing i can say or do takes that pain away. For me there are hard days and moments but i see the toll it took and continues to take on him and that is enough for me. The forgiveness was more for me honestly to let go of all of that.

      This is a long process that takes so meh work from both people. And honestly this will be a lifelong work in our marriage. I will say I hate he did what he did but we are closer than ever. We went to the brink of him destroying our family and lives together but we have rebuilt that. No it is not perfect but we have a new level of closeness I never thought possible.

      • Tired February 14, 2018 at 7:40 pm #

        I should listen to you Hopeful because I have been nagging and nagging my husband about all these details, but those critical pieces of information you mention I think I already have. There was an emotional affair. They went to X, Y and Z. It is bad enough that he did it, I suppose the detail does not matter so much. It will probably only make me feel worse. The only thing that might really make it worse is if there was sex. My gut feeling tells me there wasn’t and it is usually spot on. In any case, even if there was, I doubt it would change much. I’m not going to leave him now. We have gotten better together and we are happier. The lies and deception were the worst to me. I saw actual film of them kissing and even that occupies less of my thoughts than the lies he told.

        So I guess I already know the worst. And I hear what you are saying about your husband hurting and betraying himself the most because when I can put aside the anger, I see that in my husband as well. If I imagine myself cheating, my first thought would be that he would lose respect for me and that I could not bear. His respect for me as a person means a lot to me. Yet that is the situation my husband is in now. It must feel awful to be the cheater.

        • Shifting Impressions February 14, 2018 at 9:45 pm #

          I agree with you…Hopeful is spot on. I totally relate to what you’re saying and your situation.

          When I backed off and allowed our healing to come more naturally the result was that my husband started to feel safer and more open to share about what really happened.

          As I read many of your posts I think that our husbands have fairly similar temperaments.

    • TryingToGetOver February 13, 2018 at 3:21 pm #

      Cross Road, I have the same questions! I keep asking my therapist if I HAVE to forgive. Like, is it really not over until I forgive? Because what if that takes 10 years? I understand that people say forgiveness frees YOU. But there is a tiny part of me that feels like forgiveness is letting him off the hook. Like forgiveness is saying “it’s okay that you hurt me” when it is not. So I am also struggling with it. Hopefully we’ll figure it out eventually!

      • Shifting Impressions February 13, 2018 at 5:47 pm #

        I think forgiveness is a process… takes time. It’s been over four years since d-day and I often feel like I am standing on the edge of forgiveness, afraid to jump…if that makes any sense.

        I’m not to hard on myself over it. I’m taking it one day at a time.

      • CrossRoads February 13, 2018 at 8:35 pm #

        Trying to Get Over

        100% correct with the feeling that forgiving them feels like your letting them off the hook. I’ve told her that there were 1000 different things she could have done to our marriage our kids and our family but the one line she could not pass she felt was ok to do. It went on for months and became very sexual. Seriously! She knew exactly what she was doing and felt that it was ok for her to do! BS!!!

        She does not understand the triggers I deal with every day nor has she shown a great deal of remorse! Very very selfish on her part.

      • Tired February 17, 2018 at 4:32 am #

        I agree Tryingtogetover. It does feel like letting them off the hook. Especially as their behaviour was so cruel. I also feel as though he had this bit of excitement and then just came back to his life and he wants it just the way it was. Apparently our marriage wasn’t as bad as he made out then if he wants it back! It doesn’t work like that. You can’t just go off having affairs and expect the spouse to just get over. Perhaps they think like that because when the fog wears off they realise the person didn’t mean anything to them. That’s what my husband says anyway. However convincing my brain to accept that this is true is another matter entirely!

        • TheFirstWife February 17, 2018 at 11:08 am #

          I think it’s the most ludicrous thought – to get over it!!

          You don’t “get over it”.

          You accept and forgive. You deal with the irrational thoughts and shattered self esteem daily (or almost daily).

          You move ahead and try to live a happy life despite the A and trauma.

          Because life is too short.

          It is interesting that my H never has anyone cheat on him. So he has NO IDEA what it feels like. I had that experience more than once and just decided not to be that person.

          In my case it is not the A that has caused the larger issue – it is his kicking me to the curb that did it. Like “I’m fine with you / moving on”.

          • Shifting Impressions February 17, 2018 at 12:13 pm #

            I think you are right……I don’t think I will truly ever get over it either. I have had to accept that it happened but the harder thing to accept is that he was capable of doing that to me. That he was capable of the deceit.

            Yes you pick up the pieces and move forward and it doesn’t hurt as much as time goes on, But there will always be the scar.

        • TryingToGetOver February 26, 2018 at 12:15 pm #

          I had a revelation recently that if the cheater breaks off the affair they have a real sense of “closure” that the BS never feels. I am sure that’s been covered plenty here but it is only hitting me full force now. We’re almost twelve weeks post D-day and my H is really happy and “never going back to that miserable place” and moving on and I am still reeling. I tried to explain to him that it’s like someone punching you in the face, and then asking you to forgive and move on while you’re still in shock that you were punched in the face to begin with. I am reconciled to the fact that forgiveness will take a long time and that is that.

          • TheFirstWife February 26, 2018 at 1:34 pm #


            That’s is a great point. May I add to that thought?

            just b/c the CS “says it’s over” – we have no way of knowing. They want us to now believe they are telling the truth after they have been lying and cheating.

            Sorry it just doesn’t work like that. It’s not a light switch that you flip on. Like today I will be truthful but tomorrow – maybe not.

            That is what the cheating spouse does not understand. You cannot present yourself as a liar & cheater and then expect the BS to all of a sudden believe you are no longer behaving that way.

            It takes a long time to regain that trust.

          • Angela February 26, 2018 at 7:03 pm #

            Let me give you some insight as to how it felt to me when our situation worked out the other way: After 30 days I didn’t give my husband the option of keeping up what he was doing. I said “You all are through”‘ and I took away all his access to the OP. From that point on, I felt like 2nd choice, like I had forced him to stay with me, because he wasn’t choosing to end it himself. I feel like he wasn’t done with it and felt since then, he’d rather be somewhere else than with me. He never did choose me over her and I feel permanently deprived of being who he really wanted. He was being so awful, I just took it from him basically, so I don’t have the closure of feeling like he found me the best choice. It felt like he just saw I wasn’t going to let him finish what he started with someone else, and resigned himself to me. I don’t think that particular ” closure” exists and its one of the things that leaves a permanent insecurity.

            • TheFirstWife February 26, 2018 at 9:29 pm #

              Angela how long has it been since the A ended?

              Do you think there is anything he can do to make you feel like you are his first choice?

            • Angela February 26, 2018 at 10:40 pm #

              He has always sworn there wasn’t an inkling of feelings for her, and I never found a single text or chat where any feelings were expressed between them, but the “affair” ended about 3.5 years ago.

              I write “affair” in quotes because:
              Although I have yet to really understand what was driving his behavior at the time (it thoroughly appeared to be an affair) or what he felt about her, I still wound up feeling betrayed, cheated on, and most certainly was lied to. His reasons for being dishonest and sneaky seem to have been motivated by something else.

              We found specialists who defined what my H did as an “object affair”. And let me tell you – I could have handled it all waaaayyyyy better if he HAD just got into a relationship with the OW because it leaves me feeling like everything in the world is a potential threat, and not just another woman.

              I can’t find this comment to reply to on the website, so I just replied via email…sorry.

              Hope your situation is greatly improved since we last talked!

  18. Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 11:09 am #

    For those of you who had commented when I was thinking of using a monitor down stairs on my husband, I decided to write him a 3 page letter. Well, I let him read it in my presence, we went over it together and we discussed it. It seemed to have helped me a lot ! He actually told me he would not even care if she died ! Then he says I wouldn’t want her to get hit by a Mac truck or something I was kind of shocked that he even said that! Well as we kept talking he mentions something about empathy, he said that he lacks empathy which didn’t come to a surprise to me! He had a rough childhood and is a recovering alcoholic!
    I guess that explains a lot ! A few weeks later I had to use his computer and went I opened it a song(have you seen her ) by the chi-lites was pulled up in the screen , I read the lyrics and thought really! That was one of my issues was the songs he listened to ! Still confused 🤷‍♀️

  19. Rose February 13, 2018 at 11:31 am #

    For tomorrow I’d like to print a letter and wrap it in red ribbon and give it to my H. The one where he said “I’m sorry that after I promised you I wouldn’t, I had to continue to see her for fear of what she would do!!” Pathetic. Good Valentines gift? Yes, I’m on a roll…

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 5:12 pm #

      Rose, that’s awful that he would say that! What is he afraid of? Is she single?

      • Rose February 13, 2018 at 5:38 pm #

        She was single at that time. He said she was an alcoholic and substance abuser with an abusive boyfriend and NEEEEEDED him. Uh huh. What she needed was a sugar daddy and he fell for it.

        • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 6:28 pm #

          Does he really know what he is in for an alcoholic and drug abuser ! I live with a recovering alcoholic, let me tell you it was a nightmare! I would have left had he not sobbered up !

    • TheFirstWife February 14, 2018 at 12:23 pm #

      That might have been shoved down his throat at some point.

      How have you not killed this guy yet?

  20. Rose February 13, 2018 at 6:51 pm #

    It was 5 years ago so that’s over and yes, he has “white knight” syndrome and needs to save losers.

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 7:22 pm #

      Oh ok did not know that ! Thank god my husband is no longer on Facebook! He had other women trying to pursue him as well! I think Facebook has destroyed many relationships! That was how they kept in touch after he was texting her and I saw the phone records and busted them.

    • Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 7:47 pm #

      Oh ok did not know that ! Thank god my husband is no longer on Face—- ! He had other women trying to pursue him as well! I think Face——has destroyed many relationships! That was how they kept in touch after he was texting her and I saw the phone records and busted them.

  21. Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 7:48 pm #

    Oh ok did not know that ! Thank god my husband is no longer on Face—- ! He had other women trying to pursue him as well! I think Face——has destroyed many relationships! That was how they kept in touch after he was texting her and I saw the phone records and busted them.

  22. Hopeful1 February 13, 2018 at 8:15 pm #

    Oops 😬 could not send , went through 3 times

  23. Rose February 14, 2018 at 10:40 pm #

    Expect nothing and you won’t be disappointed. That’s my theme for Valentine’s Day today. So H had asked me to dinner and I said no thanks. Then he asked if he could make dinner and I said no thanks. Today he made a very nice dinner with a tablecloth and candlelight. He brought home roses. I got a gift bag with crap in it—a radar detector, a stereo fob thingie, some sheets, and a card signed Love Always. Before you think I am ungrateful, I’m not. That’s all very nice. I gave him nothing. Not a card, not anything at all. What I WANTED was an apology. A week has gone by since he told he deleted all his FB messages and a week since I unfriended him and told him what a jerk he was. He has neither said a single word about my angry message to him, nor apologized, nor stopped commenting on the OW’s posts. So basically I see this as “Oh, I have to do SOMEthing for Valentine’s Day” and not out of love, just out of habit or guilt. I’m pissed but graciously said “Thanks” as my therapist said to do. She said not to give what he would or would not do any thought at all, and not to give it any thought after he did or did not do anything. When I go to bed early tonight, maybe he’ll get the message but I’ll bet not.

  24. Rose February 14, 2018 at 10:57 pm #

    I also burst into tears seeing Facebook posts from old high school friends about their “sweeties,” their “hot” spouses, holding hands, etc. Seems like the entire world appreciates their spouses today…except mine is ashamed and embarrassed to be married to me.

  25. Tired February 15, 2018 at 7:22 am #

    Oh Rose. I feel for you. You seem so down. Perhaps what you are doing is working though. Would he usually do anything for Valentine’s? If not, he may be reacting to your distancing yourself. It seems it could be a positive step?

    There are some people that cannot apologise ever. Maybe your husband is one of them. I’m hoping you continue with what you are doing and that you see a change in your husband. And if you don’t you will still feel better about yourself.

    • Rose February 15, 2018 at 2:30 pm #

      Thanks Tired. Usually he gets me at least a card but making dinner is over the top for him. Its funny because he seemed so exhausted after cooking but we do this every day! IF I weren’t so angry, IF recent events hadn’t happened, I would truly appreciate the gesture. But since there was NO gesture on our anniversary except being on FB, I just didn’t give a damn. He can’t be that stupid to not see through the “gray rock” he’s getting from me now so my only conclusion is he is the same selfish bastard he’s been for the last 7 years. Didn’t even need to be a grand apology. Just and I’m sorry for hurting you and it won’t happen again. I’m dreaming that that will ever happen. He’s been on FB for 2 hours now while I’m working and doing school work.

      • Shifting Impressions February 15, 2018 at 5:26 pm #

        Sometimes they really are that stupid….I really mean that. Sometimes they need it spelled out in PLAIN ENGLISH.

        We can set ourselves up for a huge fall when we have really specific expectations especially when we think our husbands should be smart enough to know what those expectations are without us telling them.

        As I read your posts my heart goes out to you. But I also thing the two of you are caught in a cat and mouse game of sorts. I don’t think that is how detaching really works.

      • Tired February 16, 2018 at 12:36 pm #

        He unfortunately sounds like a lost cause, Rose. I think you need to go on with your life. Perhaps then the damn fool will see what he is losing. You sound like a together woman. What a stupid man!

  26. TheFirstWife February 15, 2018 at 7:45 am #

    🌹 Rose. Reading your post brought tears to my eyes. You are waiting for something so simple. Two words. “I’m sorry”.

    And they didn’t come.

    But would it have meant anything if he said “I’m sorry” and went right back to liking OW’s posts? That would only be more upsetting in the end.

    He is showing you what he is. A needy self absorbed person who needs validation from others to be happy.

    He doesn’t see he has a loving wife right in front of him – as he continues to search for what you are freely giving him.

    I think your therapist is giving you good advice on how to detach. The therapist seems to be providing advice on how to help you let this situation affect you less.

    All positive steps.

    Because he is clueless and doesn’t connect his online behavior and it’s impact in you and your M.

    It sounds like one long drawn out MLC.

    I had an uncle like that. Did not age well. At all. Very vain. Always had to be tan. Always had to weigh a certain weight. Always had to be the life of the party.

    It had to be exhausting to be his wife as everything was about him! And he was never going to change. Ever.

    Perhaps that is your H. Needy. Needs validation from other women. Not aging well.

    Try not to let HIS broken values affect you. Because it is his issue.

    It is just sad that he doesn’t get it. You deserve better.

    • Rose February 15, 2018 at 2:30 pm #

      Thank you for the support TFW.

      • TheFirstWife February 15, 2018 at 4:48 pm #

        Been there. I know exactly how you feel.

        After 2 EAs my H finally saw the light. Finally.

      • TheFirstWife February 16, 2018 at 4:57 pm #

        Remember to get your support system in place. Whether you stay with him or not.

        Attorney or mediator
        Therapist / counselor – which you have
        Financial advisor – accountant
        Banking rep or financial planner
        Friends and family you can rely on

        Plus have a financial plan. Autos and bank accounts and retirement accounts. Who gets what. Who leaves the house. Who stays. Who gets the family heirlooms or the brown chair – have an idea of how things are to be divided up.

        It helps to be prepared. In case one day you just decide you have had enough – you can pull the trigger and execute.

  27. Tired February 16, 2018 at 2:04 am #

    So, in my neck of the woods a very prominent politician has left his wife of 24 years (and his children) after impregnating one of his employees. How disgusting! I feel so much for his wife because not only is she dealing with this nightmare, but it is all over the news. Talk about humiliating! Of course she is much younger than the wife and he is an ugly, ageing old clown. I think the woman can only be attracted to his 400k salary. i’d like to bet his new relationship will not be long lasting.

    It is bad enough to have an affair, but to leave one family and walk immediately into another is just adding salt to the wounds I think. What a gross man. So, mud is being flung at him from all angles, yet he is playing the victim and asking for ‘privacy’ as if none of it was his own doing! It makes me so mad. He is also trying to gain sympathy by saying that the failure of his marriage was the saddest episode of his life. Self inflicted, lol. It gets me how these cheaters are never responsible for their own actions!!

    • Angela February 16, 2018 at 9:44 pm #

      What you want to bet it will be said the little “tart” seduced him (or lied) and his wife ends up ‘standing by her man’ to save his political career?

      • Tired February 17, 2018 at 4:16 am #

        I think the poor wife was already standing by her man, saying nothing about the affair and putting up with it until the election. Her reward was to be dumped immediately after it. Selfish a–hole.

  28. Rose February 16, 2018 at 9:33 pm #

    I was thinking today of the reasons my H has had EAs. This is not to justify or excuse, just thinking out loud. The last 2 were both when he was unemployed, bored, and feeling sorry for himself; in addition, at the same time I was swamped with work and school. He has no hobbies and no male friends except for one who idolizes, and spends all his spare time with, his wife. So every time I’ve been available, he’s clingy and needy. When I haven’t been because, you know, someone has to pay the bills, he’s gone elsewhere. What makes these people so selfish and have such low self esteem that they have to find OW to tell their troubles to? They just happen to be in the right place for the sociopathic vixen to move in? I don’t know. What I do know is a) he is getting his White Knight syndrome met by bowing and scraping to his mother’s every need and b) he is getting his “friendships” on Facebook. So he has no need for me.

    • TheFirstWife February 17, 2018 at 11:13 am #

      Very insightful. You have figured out the “causes” that leads him to make these decisions.

      Similar to my H – last EA was he was turning 50, he hated his job, was earning less $ and miserable (though I never complained) and thought he would be retired and rich by now.

      And then the OW entered the picture and 💥 boom! In less than 6 months he was D me for her. And blamed ME for everything wrong in his life.

      All his issues. 💯%.

      Seems like your H has a pattern. Too bad he can’t see it.

  29. Tired February 17, 2018 at 11:11 am #

    Hi Rose. No it is not a justification or an excuse, but there are always reasons. I think you have hit the nail on the head with your analysis of your husband. Unfortunately these types of men appear vulnerable and they are like magnets for the type of woman your husband always seems to end up with.

    My husband is the same. He doesn’t spend enough time talking to his male friends either. As a result I am left trying to meet all his needs and it is just not possible for any one person to do that. So then they blame us and get reeled in by some silly woman who is putting on her best face. You know the type of woman, willing to cover them in lashings of praise, they are so wonderful. Why doesn’t your wife appreciate you more? If these relationships progressed they would soon be looking for the next woman because no one can keep that up forever. Unfortunately I think a lot of these men are not living in reality.

    I think the relationship with his mother is probably very integral to your husband’s need to be idolised and pitied. Is she a critical woman who is never happy with anything he does? Or was she perhaps a single parent who maybe leaned on him expecting him to take on a husband role as confidante?

    Your husband sounds rather broken. However, it is not an excuse for his poor treatment of you. He is probably not aware of why he is doing the things he is doing. He probably doesn’t even really see the terrible impact it is having on you. Would he be willing to go to counselling?

    • Rose February 17, 2018 at 11:49 am #

      Oh yes, I got to see all the obscene emails from his cousin to him with descriptions of all the things she was going to do with him because his frigid wife won’t. Uh huh. And the first EA neeeeeded him and his wife didn’t so you know, that gave him something to live for when he was unemployed with no friends and his wife was busy working 2 jobs and had no time for him. ((Scream))

  30. TheFirstWife February 17, 2018 at 11:18 am #

    I think you may not be aware. Many guys (my H included until recently) would NEVER talk to ANYONE about issues or problems.

    My H would make a joke, deflect and change the topic before talking about anything personal. Even to his own friends.

    So in many cases it’s not that they didn’t talk to their friends. It’s that they don’t speak about their problems at all.

    My H has since changed that way of thinking and I think he is happier b/c if it.

    • Tired February 17, 2018 at 11:33 am #

      I hear you TFW. I was not actually thinking of the husbands talking about problems with their friends though. I was just thinking about the lack of contact with other men in general. They need time out too. You can’t be the only person they speak to. Even if they’re not talking about problems I know that when my husband has been with his friends he is uplifted and we have other stuff to talk about that is not just our concerns. I think it is good for them.

      They do have a problem discussing their issues with other men. I think it is good that your husband is now discussing his problems with you. Mine always did but I think I shut out a lot of it because it was too overwhelming to have to solve everything and you get sick of it when you’re the only sounding board. I suppose that’s why he found the ear of the other woman so attractive.

    • Rose February 17, 2018 at 11:33 am #

      Tired and TFW, he has a complicated relationship with his narcissistic bitch mother. Lol. His sister moved half a country away just to get away from her if that tells you anything. We didn’t see his mother for a year because she only calls when she wants something. Well her housekeeper was ripping her off so H stepped in and now MIL is in a nursing home because she fell–from being drunk–for the third time this month. I told H well now you get a break but instead he’s there at the home every other day. Its a 3-hour RT. She is guilting him into coming. I won’t help him because I despise her and because he argues every time I offer advice. As far as friends, I know guys don’t confide in each other like we do but in 32 years he has not had ANY male friends, not even to go have a drink with. Hey but guess what I did for myself this week? Yoga twice, out by myself for sushi after that once, and a massage yesterday! Oh and no…he will not go to counseling. In 2016 after the 2nd EA (with his cousin) I threatened to leave so he went to 3 sessions and said he was cured. Then we saw an MC. He talked about himself for 30 minutes and didn’t give me any time, and at the end show told us unless he got his own counselor, there was nothing she could do for us.

      • TheFirstWife February 17, 2018 at 7:57 pm #

        She sounds a bit like my MIL that my H walked away from. Never to speak again.

        He did see her once when she was not in good shape and she started crying. He was nice and left and that was it. No contact. He went to the funeral out of respect. She hated me / for no reason other than she could.

        So good for you for not giving into the MIL issue.

        And glad to see you are developing your own life. That is the best you can do for now.

        Sorry it had to be this way.

  31. Hurt February 25, 2018 at 9:12 pm #

    Found out about h ea just over a year ago. Things been very rocky couple of good weeks followed by a shit week, same pattern. Week before Xmas got a gut instinct gave all the reassurance he needed to give. Xmas day caught him tryig to text her, again perfect excuse , as I gad tried to phone her he was just phoning to apologise for me trying to cobscy her!!!! Came home tonight from work early, no sign of him!! When he came in admitted been seeing her again for last couple of months ( cos he wanted to apologise for me trying to contact her!) made out my fault! Don’t know what to do. Definitely stronger than I was a year ago! Told him he can leave she obviously makes him happy! Been with him 13 years, 2 kids together and his 2 children lived with ya aswell! Am I only here for the kids and to save fAce ( as he put it) or am I here cos I love him ? Help please x

    • TryingToGetOver February 26, 2018 at 12:19 pm #

      How awful. I know that creeping gut feeling, when you KNOW they are cheating but you want to believe when they say they are not and in the end, you feel like you’re literally insane. The good news is your radar is accurate. The other good news is you’re strong and can walk away if necessary. But I understand you wanting to protect your family. I will be curious what others advise. Is it time to “out” him to a few keys friends or family members? See if the shame of others knowing he’s a cheater will make him contrite?

    • Angela February 26, 2018 at 4:04 pm #

      You don’t need to save face. He does. Ask him the same question. “You here to save face?” Tell him to go NOW. You gave him his chance and he blew it. He’ll change his tune pretty quick. Keep letting him stay and you are probably in for several more D-days. Hate to be so pessimistic, but the only thing that works with these CSs is telling them to hit the road.

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