Stop an emotional affair

I am finally convinced that there is little that can be done to stop an emotional affair.  This article details how hard it was for Doug to end his affair and how frustrating to me that was.

By Linda

I recently came to this conclusion after a comment that Doug made a couple of weeks ago about what pushed him to think about ending his emotional affair.  He said that my reaction when I reviewed the phone logs was a catalyst for him to end the affair, but that ending the affair was still a process.

I know this is not new information to me but in a very strange way it still hit me very hard.  I suppose that it really does take time to fully recover from an affair, and I at least have to hear things over and over again before they finally start to sink in.

Recently, Doug and I had a discussion about this “process” and I felt more like a person looking at it from the outside – almost like I was in an airplane viewing the timeline from above. It was really a strange and unsettling feeling for me.

When I look at the actual progression of trying to get Doug to end the affair, I realize that nothing that I did made much difference at all.  The emotional affair had such a strong hold on him that traditional thinking, methods and ideology had no affect at all. It was something that he had to do on his own.  As he has said previously, the pain had to override the pleasure.

I thought back to the day I found all the calls on his cell phone. A day you would think that the shock of being caught in the act would have brought some kind of action or guilt to the cheating spouse.  What happened instead was denial, justification and an intensifying of the affair.

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Later, I tried to fix our marriage by offering opportunities to connect, spend time together, communicate and be intimate.  Did those actions stop the affair? No.  Instead it provided an opportunity for Tanya to reassure Doug that I was just being desperate, that I should have been doing those things before and that I only wanted him because someone else had him.

Those actions added more confusion to the situation with the result being the affair relationship and Tanya coming out on top. It was another opportunity to put up a wall between our marriage and open up the flood gates to allow the affair to prosper.

It was a time for the two of them to discuss their relationship, their future, all the feelings and emotions and what they were going to do about the situation.  At the same time, I was still in the dark about the affair.  I was still trusting and believing Doug and just trying to save my marriage.

The reality was that all my efforts to reconnect with Doug could not stop the affair.  It had too much power.

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A couple of months later, I felt in my heart that my efforts were not as productive as I had hoped they would be.  The wall was still there and I felt like I was really losing my mind.  During that time I was overly vigilant with everything that was happening around me and with every action and conversation with Doug.

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This was the time that I finally demanded he tell me what was going on.  Of course he did confess a portion of it, and I again believed everything he said was true.

He downplayed the affair, their relationship and the ending (or not ending) of their emotional affair.  Of course all of this was very painful for me.  He watched me have panic attacks, crying spells, lack of sleep, weight loss, hopelessness and helplessness.

I WAS desperate. I loved Doug, and deep down felt he loved me.  I wanted to do everything to save our marriage. But again this wasn’t enough to end the affair.

The pleading, crying and begging had little effect.  The only repercussion was that it forced Doug to make an effort in our relationship to curb my emotions, insecurity and to lesson his guilt.  It also forced him to lie and sneak around even more.

He was trying to maintain two turbulent relationships which was wearing on him (Tanya was also becoming emotional and desperate).  However, the power and control of the emotional affair was still winning.

Fast forward another month.  Of course I knew deep down that the affair was still going on and everything I had read indicated that I needed to take a stronger stance.  So I demanded the phone records.  After I reviewed them I told him he could leave.

This is the point that Doug has told me (much later of course) that he knew he had to end the affair.  Again he said it was a process, and of course it didn’t end that day.

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The thought of that still produces so much anger because I looked at the previous four months to this occurrence as the “process.”  I wonder what it took to finally end it.  What kind of hold did she and the affair have over him that seeing his world crumbling around him didn’t seem to make any difference?

I will never understand the power of an affair and how someone could let it continue when they are hurting everyone around them.  The only thing I could do is accept and forgive, which has been the most difficult thing I have ever had to do.

I hope that Doug can look at this process the way I have and learn from it, so his insight could help others that are going through the same thing.  I know there are many things I could have done differently to have sped up this process, but I believe in the end, the decision to stop an emotional affair has to be one made by the cheater.

Additional Resources

Break Free From the Affair – the best book for determining the type of affair, what action you can take for each kind of affair, and predict how and when the affair will end.

Affair Recovery Group – learn real life ways on how to recover from an affair based on our own experiences as well as direction from therapist, Jeff Murrah.

How to Stop an Affair by Exposing it – Dr. Harley’s recommended way to get the cheater to stop his/her affair.

More articles about Ending an Affair

 

 

    762 replies to "It’s Tough To Stop an Emotional Affair"

    • alice

      I can’t understand how a person could continue to carry on an affair while having to see the trama take its toll on their spouse.

      Doug…when you saw Linda was having panic attacks, losing weight, etc. what exactly did you say to yourself to justify continuing your actions?

      • Doug

        Alice, I can’t believe that I was such a selfish person at the time either. That is a continual source of guilt for me and probably always will be. It is something that I am unable to forgive myself for.

        Obviously at the time I was not thinking rationally. I was in the fog and made the mistake of discussing all of this with Tanya. She of course would help me justify things by saying that Linda was only acting that way out of desperation. The bad feelings, guilt and emotions at home were overshadowed by the feel-good feelings of the EA.

      • Yuki

        My husband actually said the same thing one day when we were reading about a man who didn’t stop his affair for several months after his wife found out. My mouth dropped. I pointed out to him that his affair partner had done that exact same thing. Her husband actually found out twice, and in neither instance did it stop her at all. She just became more careful and deceitful. The second time he was unable to work for several weeks. He lost a bunch of weight and said life was not worth living. But still she did not even think about breaking up with my husband. They continued another two years before my husband slowly withdrew from her and then broke it off. I did not find out until two months after the “breakup.” They were supposedly trying to be “just friends.” That cliche would almost be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
        My husband agreed to no contact as soon as I found out, but I don’t think he would have if I had found out earlier when they were still together. My pain and suffering would have made no difference then. That says to me that the affair relationship is the top priority when it is at its height. Nothing else matters.

      • GG

        Doug didn’t have to say anything. It was all about him, his needs, his wants, his happiness. He doesn’t care about Linda.

        • Cee

          I agree. When i read that the Tramp Tanya said, she only wants you because someone else wants you. That sounded like it was more than an Emotional Affair. Why would someone that was just a friend say this?

    • alice

      Oh and another question I’ve been struggling with….Linda, when you discovered that Doug wasn’t going to end the affair, were you worried that the EA would eventually turn to a PA?

      And Doug once Tanya knew that Linda knew….did she push for the affair to become a PA? I have read that a lot of OW push for sex becuase they think once the wife finds out it’s a PA the wife will dump the husband.

      • Doug

        Alice, Tanya had suggested a PA, but it had nothing to do with Linda knowing about the affair — at least she didn’t say that was the reason. Perhaps though it was an ulterior motive of hers.

        • Linda

          “Alice, Tanya had suggested a PA, but it had nothing to do with Linda knowing about the affair — at least she didn’t say that was the reason. Perhaps though it was an ulterior motive of hers.”

          I am sure all of you know how difficult it is to read something like this and if it had been a year ago I definitely would have asked what her reasons were. Now I really don’t want to know because I am sure they are all based on illusion. However I do have to chuckle when I think that she would have given him a reason like that, she was not that stupid. I am also sure that he never believed that she had motive when she was telling him that I didn’t love him, or care about his feelings and I just wanted him because he had someone else. The most disturbing aspect of this is she didn’t even know me, knew nothing of our relationship, only the one-sided information Doug gave her and she felt knowledgeable enough to give Doug advice as to what to do and Doug believed her! It is all beyond comprehension and as Doug said he was not thinking rationally.
          Unfortunately I spent the first year of our recovery trying to prove to Doug I wasn’t that person they believed I was and that I unconditionally loved him. I had to explain to him that both of us were to blame for the problems in our marriage, it wasn’t all my fault. I had to show him that some of the beliefs he had about me were magnified a hundred times while he was in the affair and my behaviors weren’t as bad as he made them out to be. I was acting in this way because I loved him and things were getting better between us, not because someone else wanted him.

          “The bad feelings, guilt and emotions at home were overshadowed by the feel-good feelings of the EA.” This is something I will never understand. How can the affair continue to provide those feel good feelings when it is causing such turmoil? I asked Jeff this question during our last conference and he said that there is much pain and guilt during the affair but somehow they justify it by believing it is worth it. How can being with the other person feel so good when it is producing so much pain ? Linda

          • GG

            Linda,
            You put way too much into this marriage. Having to prove to your husband who you are??? This Tanya shaped your husbands view of who you (his wife) are? How dare he allow another woman to step in and control his marriage!

      • michael

        Alice,
        Interesting timing. My wife and I were discussing along this line today. My wife was the Other Woman. I asked if his wife ever found out. My wife said OM’s wife knew.
        She said that OM told her that his wife was cheating on him at the time. That it was over between them.
        All stories he used? (I knew of a guy who actually made up fake separation paperwork to show the girl he was with.)
        OM played on her heart and she just fed into it and Tried To Help “HIM”. She felt all the emotions of her high school days with him. And she trusted him.
        Looking back at his and his wifes facebook they seemed to be quite the happy couple. I know that doesn’t mean a darn thing but just the comments and pictures didn’t make it out to be on the verge of divorce.
        And knowing how she was she would have done anything to win his love. I’m still on the fence of whether my wife actually slept with him. I may never know. There’s just to many red flags to miss. Does that change anything? No. if OM wife found that out I’m sure she would have been gone in a heart beat. After all her kids aren’t his and she is his third wife.

        • alice

          It boggles my mind as to how any woman could think a man who has gone through three wives and is currently cheating on the 3rd (for whatever reason he may come up with) would be a trustworthy person capable of being in a healthy relationship?

          Clearly, he’s FUCKED. He isn’t capable of being in any sort of relationship. I hope your wife sees one day what a huge bullet she dodged. There is no doubt that if she had left the marriage and got together with him – he would soon be cheating on her.

          • staystrong72

            I have even pointed this out to my wife. I asked her if the OM has cheated on his current wife. My wife’s reply was yes. WTF! I looked at my wife and asked; “Then what makes you think that you are so special that he wouldn’t do that to you once the reality of life sets in?” Of course I get the stupid look. Women actually think that they are so different and special that it wouldn’t happen to them. Wake UP! Just read the posts right here and you will see that you aren’t any different. The problem is that a lot of times they wake up and their spouse has moved on with their lives. Start acting like responsible adults and living a real life.

            • mark

              Same thing here. The ob (otherbastard) was on his second marriage and cheating on the same. I’d tell my wife the same thing. It was so transparent. Then after the second time I catch her texting him four months after the original discovery she tells me, “he’s not a bad person”. Bullshit. I know she can’t call him a bad person because then she’d have to admit the same about herself. I refuse to think this bastard is a “good person”.

            • theresa

              Mark, this is great! You win the alphabet medal hands down. And it’s sex indiscriminate.

              ob – other bastard

    • melissa

      I totally agree with Linda’s post, it seems that nothing I did changed my husband’s conviction that he had done nothing. And despite my tears and heartbreak, a few sessions of counselling which he stopped quickly, he lapsed and the relationship started again – more lies, more sneaky meetings and phone calls. That was when I gave him the ‘her or me’ ultimatum and started detaching myself from him as much as possible.

      Creating some distance took courage but it seems to be working – at least on the surface as my husband is still not prepared to talk about the EA and I still don’t trust him. But we do seem to have a better relationhip at the moment, spending more ‘quality time’ together and enjoying each other’s company as well as being more aware of each other.

      • Rach

        I am exactly at your place right now but knowing that he is still hiding things from me (social media accounts, the OPs contact no. etc) is cancelling out the new memories that we are building together (taking long walks together, overnight dates, watching ballgames together). I guess I will never really trust him again unless he fully laid bare the contents of his heart, his cellphone and his social media life.

      • Vida

        Hi Melissa, I know this post was so long ago and I hope you see this… how is your relationship now?

    • Roger

      I’m at the same place that Melissa is. When I initially found out about my W’s EA, I did everything I could to try to hold our marriage together. I was clinging to anything. This lasted for about a month or so, but then I realized that I couldn’t do anything about the situation. All I can do is work on myself and change the things that I was doing, and hope that our marriage would win out. We are still in the middle of the storm though. I have detached from my W, I don’t talk about the OM or the EA with her at all, and I usually don’t initiate conversation with my W. I do do all the things I can to show her I lover her, but I don’t go out of my way. It seems to be working as my W is seemingly becomming more and more conflicted with the whole situation, as opposed to before, when she seemed to be happy to lead a double life. I hope that my marriage will win out, but at this point, I am at peace with everything because it is out of my hands.

      • melissa

        Roger,
        I do hope things work out for you.
        Melissa

      • staystrong72

        Amen, Roger. That is exactly the approach I am taking. Though it is tough to do, I am actually reconnecting with my wife. We had a set back yesterday when I found out that the OM contacted her. My 5 year old told me that he called. What strikes me as odd is that all this conflict and turmoil my wife is feeling can easlily be resolved by her making a simple decision. Piss or get off of the pot. Once a decision is made everything else in her life will fall into place. I don’t know why people like to have this added stress in their lives. Life is too short to complicate it and waste precious time.

      • GG

        Why do you sell yourself short Roger? Believe me, the more time this EA has to bloom, the less your marriage will be worth. Marriage is between two people. If you allow another person in emotionally or physically: there is no marriage.

    • Donna

      Oh goodness me, I cried so hard when I read your post Linda. This is just me, it is really scarey to read it on here from another person. I had panic attacks too as well as I got to the point where my body was having what the doctors called an internal fit. My body would react like that of an epileptic, I would have a seizure and it would happen 3 sometimes 4 times a day which ended with me in hospital. This terrified my husband but not enought to end his Ea/PA. sO MUCH SO THAT HE DROPPED ME OFF AT THE eMERGENCY dEPARTMENT AND WENT OFF AND HAD LUNCH WITH A FRIEND WHO HAD COME OVER FROM THE MAIN LAND WHERE I had 2 more fits. My body was having an internal screaming fit and this was my bodies way of dealing with all the emotional rubbish it was dealing with. He says to me that he is so in love with this woman that not even what I am dealing with can stop the connection. He said it is like me having to give him up,even though we have had 4 kids and 15 years together, they have had what… 2 years! I will neer ever understand the thinking of a cheater.

      He is home with me while she is divorcing her husband, just need to deal with my suspicions and deal with that roller coaster that we are going through. I know it will end eventually, it is just hard waiting for that day and for him to be so darn remorseful that he will never want to let me go for fear of losing me… I wonder if that is just my dream or if it can actually happen.

    • mil

      Perhaps I’m lucky that my H has never said he was in love with the OW but then again I assume he is lying. I did read texts from each other talking about loving and missing but he insists it was all a ‘game’. Linda, your talk of the ‘process’ of ending the EA sounds very like my H’s phrase which was ‘it had to be phased out gradually’. Now would that be for his benefit because he didn’t want to lose the ego boost and kick the EA gave him or would it be because he felt he owed her something and didn’t want to hurt her? Probably both.
      Linda, did Doug ever tell you exactly what the ‘process’ entailed or do you think they just carried on until forced to split up? My H was so horrified when I discovered about his secret phone that they literally cut all contact that day and I rang her to warn her off. I truly believe it stopped there and then although I originally discovered his EA nearly a year before and thought the fright would be enough to stop it then. He claims the secret phone was needed for confidential work problems (her boss had tried to commit suicide and my H was sorting out the practice, which was actually true) and he said all the flirting sexy stuff had already stopped. I find this hard to believe, why stop something you enjoyed when you had a secret phone to carry it on, or is he telling the truth because he realised what he nearly lost in which case I am wasting my life punishing myself and him.

      • Norwegian woman

        This was very much like my own experience….
        My husband tells me he never was in love with the OW. It was just the “thrill” that made him hang on to the relationship. I find that very hard to believe. And I struggle with the feeling that he is lying about his feelings. They had contact for 1 1/2 years with a sexual meeting after 4 months. He insists that they never met physically again, just phoned and mailed to each other for another 5 months. After that the contact was more sporadic, but he never stopped it, even though he tells me he just wanted her to “dissappear” and stop calling him.
        But he never told her to stop. Never.
        He sticks to his story of her beeing “nothing” for him, even though all his actions is of a person in love…… And frankly….. I have a hard time believing they never met physically other than that one sexual encounter. We live in the same city….. and they had glowing contact for the 5 months following their meeting….

    • Lori

      Excellent post!! Hang in there everyone – every post, every comment helps more than you know! Don’t let the EA define you… I think I have and I don’t know how to stop it.

    • alice

      Donna
      My body was having an internal screaming fit and this was my bodies way of dealing with all the emotional rubbish it was dealing with. He says to me that he is so in love with this woman that not even what I am dealing with can stop the connection.

      What a crock. That is only something someone under the fog of infatuation would say. He certainly doesn’t share any real love for this woman.

      I really do hope that when the difference between infatuation and love suddenly becomes clear to him, he gets on his knees with guilt and remorse, crying and sobbing and begging for you not to leave. I hope that day is soon.

    • FinallyOutofIt

      Great post Linda – it’s been awhile since I last posted on this site. I remember the last time I thought I was “out of it”, but Karen somehow rightfully called me out for still being on the fence. Not too long after that, I realized she was correct. I was just about over all of it, but not quite. A few months later, I can finally say that I’m “Out of it”

      I can certainly testify that it is indeed a process. I can’t wrap my head around continuing an affair once a spouse found out, but since I wasn’t dealing with that, I can’t make a comment. I always seemed to me that if my W found out, that would bring about an immediate end. Apparently that might not have been so easy based on the stories on this site…

      Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again to Linda, Doug and everyone else on this site (especially Karen). While my actions didn’t deserve kindness, I thought everyone held their tongue and was truly trying to be helpful. So thanks…

      One other comment I wanted to make – I remember reading through so many stories where the spouse wanted to know answers and continued to ask them for a long period, but didn’t understand why the CS didn’t like answering them. Well, at some point, I think the CS just wants to move on. I know with me, that’s one reason I stopped coming and posting on the site. I think I’d had enough of thinking about it – seemed like I needed to move on and not think about it all the time.

      I can understand why someone would want to know all the truth and continue to ask questions – I get that. But the flip side of that is, the affair is continually in the mind of the CS and they can’t move past it and forget it. When I was over it, I wanted to stop thinking about it completely. Had my wife continually asked me questions about it, I think that would have made the recovery harder… Just my 2 cents.

      Good luck to everyone – I hope that the rest of this year brings the peace everyone is so desperately seeking…

      • Doug

        Finally, Good to see you. Linda and I were wondering a couple weeks ago as to whatever happened to you. Well it certainly seems by your comment that you indeed are completely out of the fog and the affair is over. I’m glad that you were able to accomplish that. I hope that you have been able to learn a lot about yourself as a result. Best wishes to you as you attempt to rebuild your relationship with your wife.

      • blueskyabove

        How could you possibly know what the “flip side is” when you have not chosen to experience that?

    • Bigmistake

      For me it is a process, but the process is mostly internal. I don’t want to hurt anybody, but I know all I’m going to do it hurt everybody. The OW and my wife. It’s inevitable, but the process is accepting that. At least to me.
      I’ve been having an emotional affair for the last two years. It started on a project at work-the two of us alone for days. We’d worked together and sort of knew each other, but not well. We became instant friends. So comfortable with each other, we went on break together, lunch, emailed each other all day long. She asked me to walk her to her car after work. She was married and I was married. So what I was attracted to her? I said nothing about it and she said nothing. Then one day she looked up my home phone number online and called me after my wife left for work (she works overnight). We talked for hours. I hid none of this from my wife, I was completely honest. But my wife is very assute and was not comfortable with our friendship. The OW’s husband also wasn’t happy and we both told our spouses if they trusted us to leave it alone, we weren’t doing anything wrong, we’re “just friends.”
      A couple months later we had escalted to hand holding and going out after work and not quite explaining where we had been. I still don’t quite know how it happened, just one day I knew what we had done was not appropriate, but I liked it so I didn’t say anything.
      We did have conversations about our spouses-complaints, but it wasn’t all about that and eventually we rarely talked about them at all. It was about us. I even skipped out on a family vacation just to be at work and see her.
      The OW told me she loved me one day-that’s when I knew it was serious. I went home, told my wife everything and stopped it right there. the OW and I argued, cried and stopped being “friends.” My wife was all “I told you so,” and angry I let it get that far.
      The break-up lasted about three weeks.
      She was all I could think about and she continued to be nice to me, smile at the sight of me and we still worked together. I was weak. We’ve been seeing each other since March 2009. We hold hands, kiss, talk ALL the time. We haven’t crossed the last line-haven’t even dicussed it, like we both want to know it isn’t really serious if we don’t do THAT. But it is. Over the past year we both received promotion and over the summer we will travel, literally the two of us alone for a week at a time. Three weeks total. We’re discussing what we’ll do in the evening time, touristy stuff together. A few weeks ago an older co-worker became a grandmother and the OW and I got her a gift from the two of us. Like we were a couple and not hiding it from anybody. People have been saying things all along and stare at us, but we ignored it-they didn’t really know us, but this made it official. We are a couple and everyone knows. This was the slap in the face I needed. I know I have to end it-I have to delete her from facebook (which is great-you can chat and leave no record) email, phone, but in the end we still work together and I can’t afford to leave my job and worked hard for this promotion. Should I tell my wife or just end it and leave her none the wiser? The books I’ve read go both ways on this. If she isn’t going to know why hurt her? And honestly is the best policy. I love my wife and mainly want to tell because of the guilt. I feel so guilty. My family has fallen apart-my wife and I never talk anymore and she doesn’t know why. I hid it so well. Always working late, putting the OW first-taking time off together so I would get home on time every once in a while. I am in the process of ending it, but really do I tell my wife? I’m afraid of what it will do to her. And I’m feeling selfish (as if I hadn’t been feeling selfish enough the last two years…) I guess, I don’t want to have the argument/fight this needs to be? How do I complete this process when I will still be stuck working with the OW. My wife wanted me to quit when it first came tolight. After all the hiding and lying she has every right to ask me to quit-and that will ruin our family financially. OUr budget is pretty tight. I found your website a few weeks ago-part of my “process” of breaking up with my girlfriend. Any insight offered is appreciated.

      • Doug

        Bigmistake, Thanks for sharing your story. Sounds pretty familiar in many ways to my own. You have a tough decision to make, but I think you answered your own question when you said that you mainly want to tell because of the guilt you feel. It will continue to eat at you until at some point you cannot take it anymore. More than likely at some point, your wife is going to find out anyways. You or the OW will slip up somehow and that will be all she wrote.

        There was a similar series of comments on this which you might want to check out: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/keeping-things-secret-within-an-emotional-affair/
        Scroll down and read the comments for this particular post, and then you might want to read the posts and the comments that were posted for several days after as the conversation continued for several days.

        As far as your work situation. I think you realize that if you continue to work with the OW, that your EA will pick right back up again. Perhaps you should start the job search process now before summer comes along in hopes of landing a new job prior to your traveling with her. I can’t see anything good coming out of you staying on the job with the OW. Any chances of getting a transfer of some sort?

        • Bigmistake

          Doug-thanks for pointing that out. Once I realized my EA needed to end I started reading books. Not “Just Friends” and your webite are the most helpful pieces of information I’ve located. I have begun looking for a new job, reluctantly. I told my GF (OW) that the situation is too stressful and we need To focus on our spouses. Neither of us want to leave them and she is step-mother to two boys she’s raises since diapers. She could truly lose her family if we continue. She intends to go work where ever I do, she would miss me too much. After two years together this is SO HARD and I don’t know why I put myself in this situation, but getting out is truly heartbreaking. I love her. I love her enough to tell her to forget me & fix her marriage like I want to fix mine. Our teenage children are acting out, our families have been neglected so we could focus on each other. I’ve directed her to this site to set her off on the path to redemption. Again, I just need you to know this site makes me feel less alone and I hope it does the same for her. I’ll return. Thank you.

          • Linda

            Bigmistake, I want you to step and think about what this is doing to your wife and your family. You are very concerned that the OW will lose her family, have you thought about what your wife is losing? I will tell you she will feel like she has lost everything in her life whether you decide to stay and work on the marriage or leave. Your family is falling apart because you have neglected them and I believe they are smart enough to know that something is wrong they are just too afraid and in denial to confront you. I suggest you begin looking at the true reality of the situation, not how much you love each other and will miss each other but what this “wonderful” relationship has done to your life. You need to remove yourself from this fog that you are in. I commend you for wanting to go back to your wife and work on your marriage, it will be the biggest challenge of your life but well worth it. I highly recommend that you read some other books in our library. Good luck. Linda

          • Linda

            BigMistake
            Let me tell you where I am now and what pain you will be causing by not stopping what you are doing. My first comment is, if you are going to have an affair, have the decency to get out of your marriage out of respect for your wife, then go for the OW. Don’t put her through the pain that I have been going through for many yrs.

            My CH had an affair 28 yrs. ago. I found out when the other woman’s husband sent me a letter telling me about it, along with the love letters that my H had written to the other woman. I was the wife who worshiped her husband, loved him deeply and put up with a lot of things due to my love for him. I thought we had a wonderful marriage, never thought he would ever cheat on me, NEVER! When I got those letters and threw them at him, which of course he denied and lied about what really had took place. Part of me died that night. I tried to make the marriage work, forgive him, do counseling, almost committed suicide twice as my mind just couldn’t stand the pain of the betrayal, the lies, etc. I suffered from panic attacks, depression for many yrs. Looking back on it now, I was only 40 yrs. old, was a nice looking woman, kept myself in shape and gave my husband everything he needed in a marriage. It took one little “bimbo” who decided to flirt with him at a business conference/lounge later, he took the bait and then their 3 yrs. E/A S/A? began. I never suspected a thing, he was home all the time, a little late but I attributed that to his job. Drank a little more and was impatient. The 2 weekends he went off with her, I thought were business conferences. He thought he had it all covered, I wasn’t getting hurt, he said that he wasn’t going to have sex with her as that would be crossing the line, but yet slept in the same bed with her on 2 weekends. I still don’t know if they had sex and 28 yrs. later it’s killing me inside. If they did I would divorce him. The E/A had been the hardest thing I’ve ever experienced in my life. It had taken a terrible tole on my life and health. I am now 68, depressed as it’s all come back to me, as my questions never got answered. I don’t know if I love him any more and this has been a horrible yr, of arguing, etc. My point of telling you all this is this. My H told me that he never planned on leaving me, he just enjoying being with her, she made him feel good, extra “new” flattery. He never thought that I would divorce him, he could have lost his job as she worked for his company. Her husband knew about it and could have come to his job or our home and created a problem. Our children were affected when I found out, one daughter moved out of our home.

            You need to think about all this, if this “slut” and that’s what I’m going to call her, as any woman that goes after a married man deserves to be called that. If she is what you want, over the wife who loves you and has stood by you, then you have two choices. 1. Stop the affair and definitely don’t work in the same job environment. 2. If your not going to stop the affair, be a man and tell your wife right away so that she can decide what she wants to do with the rest of your life. BE A MAN AND MAKE A DECISION! Don’t let your wife go through the pain that I’ve been through, we don’t deserve it.

            Linda

    • Jessica

      Doug

      What stopped you from having a PA?
      And why did you not leave your marriage?

      • Doug

        Jessica, Having a PA was just one of those lines I would never cross. Perhaps subconsciously by not doing so, it made it less of a betrayal–and made me feel less guilt. I never really seriously ever thought about leaving my marriage. Tanya and I talked about it, but she had more of a desire to leave her husband than I had a desire to leave Linda and my family. In fact, I really never considered it. I could never do it for a number of reasons…Deep down I knew I still loved Linda and we were reconnecting nicely, I didn’t want to leave my family and there are too many consequences and complications with divorce – family-wise, friend-wise, financial, etc.

    • HurtingHubby24

      Sorry, I’m in a really bad place tonight and I know this will be long. Glad I can come here to vent and share. There really is not much you can do, is there? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking today, and I’ll take a shot at answering the question, “How can they continue in the affair when they see the terrible pain they are causing”?

      The answer (in my opinion) is that it’s probably because they are just that kind of person in the first place. Really it shouldn’t be surprising at all. Think about it – this is the same person who spent months actively plotting against you and your happiness, and who didn’t give a flying flip what it would do to you. Is it going too far to say they were actively plotting against you? I don’t think so. As every adult who’s ever been attracted to anyone knows, within about 20 seconds of any serious flirtation, your mind starts thinking about where things could go, what that person must be like, if you could have a chance with them, etc etc. That’s pretty much human nature. That’s why a person thinks about if they ought to try and kiss their date on the first date or not (those thoughts are already going on!)

      The perfect example is my wife. For months now I’ve listened to her go on about how she didn’t mean for any of this to happen, how she didn’t see it coming, and how if the guy just hadn’t persisted in flirting with her, none of it would have happened. And today I realized, bull crap. To set this up – when this started last March, she had lost her wedding band so was just wearing her engagement ring while we looked for it. Anyway, she started going out three nights a week to work on her novel (my idea) while I stayed home with the kids. She picked out a coffee shop nearby. It was there that she met the great looking, 7 year younger college student, who became the other man (he worked there part time). It wasn’t long before he was flirting with her, buying her drinks, talking to her on breaks, and coming in on his nights off to see her. Things developed, she started taking off her ring when she went in, and after a couple months he asked her out. They had one date and made out afterward outside of the bar, and a couple days later I figured it all out via phone records.

      In the three months this was going on, she NEVER ONCE told him that she was married and had 3 kids. It was a total shock to him when I informed him of these facts. Now I don’t know about you all, but anyone I’ve known for more than about 5 minutes knows that I’m married and have kids. That’s a pretty big deal…. when someone asks about you, that’s just the sort of thing that comes up. The fact that she didn’t tell him that on DAY ONE or WEEK ONE clearly indicates that she wanted the affair and was considering going for the affair from the get-go. Taking off the ring when she went in is beyond obvious. It didn’t just happen, it wasn’t some random event – she was pushing for it from the first day she met him. And so it goes – I believe that unless your spouse has the IQ of dirt, they knew what they were doing and what they were hoping for from about 5 minutes into the initial flirtations with the other person. Emotional (and physical) affairs do not “just happen”.

      Sorry I know this is getting long, but this leads me to a final personal conclusion. There are 3 types of people in this world: 1) People like most betrayed spouses who would never do something like this, generally tolerate way more than they should, and would probably be sick inside if they so much as took a step into an affair. I’ve heard it said that “it can happen to anyone”, but I think that’s a load of crap. 2) Stupid people who, seriously, have to be dumber than a rock to not see what they are doing or to get roped into a one-night stand. If your significant other gets caught in an affair and immediately repents and turns themselves around, odds are they’re not a bad person, but that they could also be outwitted by a marginally competent hamster. 3) People who would sell their mother into slavery if it would get them something they wanted. These people can certainly change, but that’s who they are when they start the affair. They know what they’re doing, they know it’s wrong, and they just don’t care. They may be in a “fog” now, but they sure as heck weren’t in the “fog” in the beginning when they were scheming and slithering around in the shadows.

      So of course they can continue the affair when they see how much you’re hurting. They didn’t care in the first place.

      • Yuki

        LOL! Hurting – I love how you state it in the extreme – but yes, I quite agree with you. I suppose I’m also in a really bad place, and feeling very angry. I have had the opportunity to have affairs, but it’s like you said. For us and most faithful spouses, right alongside the realization and excitement that comes with an attraction, thoughts of what is actually happening and the consequences come to mind. I HIGHLY doubt I could ever cross the line. My husband knew what was happening and purposefully hid it from me. He was totally self-centered and selfish, easily blocking out of his mind the consequences of his actions. He knew he was risking everything for her and did it anyway.

      • mark

        amen, brother

        • Yuki

          Mark! Haven’t seen you post in a while. How are you doing?

      • truthseeker

        Hurting hobby24 Thankyou for this post ..the raw truth..like it is..enough said..

      • Exhausted

        Hello hurting,
        My thoughts exactly. Everybody likes to think there is grey but in these cases there is only black & white. My husband ‘s excuse that he never mentioned his wife & children was that she probably knew. How? In my case you talk about what’s important to you after months of interaction you would think even by accident you would mention your wife and/or children so in my conclusion it would take a concerted effort to not mention a large part of your life. Of course mentioning children would mean you would have to explain their mother and what was going on there, so best not to bring it up I suppose. I don’t know that I’ll ever be ‘over it’ as ‘it’ is him! He made the choices that has impacted so adversely on my life and also on our children because even though they don’t know what their father did – they now have a mother who is very different than the one they had before. A more sceptictical, less trusting, harder version of the mother they had before. A mother who wants to teach her children trust and respect but does not have either for their father. I’m not overly bitter but I fear a little twisted.

      • Myrna

        I appreciate your candor. I have felt these same feelings as I’m trying to process my husband’s EA of 18 months. I’m working on saving my marriage of 39 years (40 this December,) but I struggle with anger/rage rising up again and again.

        Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my mind. I don’t like the person I am becoming. I am approximately 3mos post DDay – and still reeling. Some days I can hardly breathe. An affair was something I “knew” would never happen to us. It completely blindsided and devastated me. I am stuck between immense grief and rage.

        The OW was an old flame who lived 2500 miles away (otherwise, I feel he would have met up with her.) I discovered it by finding emails and Facebook messages saved on an external harddrive. I was searching for a slideshow I had made of our son’s wedding when I discovered it. Lucky me.

        She sought him out on FB and it went from friendship, to “what if,” to “love,” in only a few months. It even progressed to sexual pictures and a video – which I discovered while trying to get to the truth about the length and depth of it. Initially, he said it was only a few months, but when confronted with the truth (and desiring reconciliation) he sat down and wrote me a timeline and divulged all of it. He is very remorseful – and has given me access (and passwords) to his email, phone, and FB account. Honestly, it feels kind of like closing the barn door after the cows are out…but I still want/need transparency in order to rebuild trust – if that’s even possible.

        The affair lasted from March of 2009 to September of 2010. I saw texts from times he was with me – and was stealing moments to text her. He would tell her that he would call soon because he “missed her” and he “loved her.” Others saying “it’s torture not to be able to talk to you everyday.” Also FB messages where he’s texting her telling her, “’M’ (me) is asleep in the next room, but I just wanted you to know I love you and I’m thinking of you.”

        Initially, when I found out, he said it was a long time ago – but he doesn’t say that anymore. He knows that for me, it’s still new. Here’s another kicker, he stayed facebook friends with her until 2016 – after I discovered it this past January. He actually asked if I wanted him to “unfriend” her. Really?

        We had been going through a lot at that time. We had lost our business of 15years, had gone through our 401Ks, and were about to lose our home. He was feeling like a failure. He tells me it was an “escape” – and I believe him. The thing is, I was going through the same thing he was going through – and I never sought comfort from anyone but him. I am beyond heartbroken.

        I never pursued a career – I was a wife, helpmate, and mother…and now a Nana. I never regretted that until now. I was happy with my life. My kids adore me, my grandchildren adore me…and he says (that even then) he adored me. I know the failure was his, so why do I feel like my life is a colossal failure? Just knowing he was capable of such deception makes me feel that I was not enough. I know he was hurting then, but so was I. One huge slap in the face was that – even as he was telling another woman he loved her – he was telling me that, “as long as we had onto each other,” we would be okay. The duality is more than my heart can stand. It doesn’t help to know SHE was the one who ended it. In all that time, he never felt enough love for me – or guilt from his own actions – to end it.

        We had so many mutual friends who admired our marriage – admitted they envied it. We have spoken at our church about keeping your marriage strong…and staying in love. I can’t help thinking about how cards from our married children have always included “thank you” for the “example” our marriage has been to them. All our years together, and we still held hands and had long talks and easy conversation. My husband was my dearest and best friend – but how can a best friend do what he did – and stay there for 18months with no conscience? How could he allow himself to fall in love with someone else, let alone get into our bed every night, hold me and profess his undying love and devotion?

        Our counselor assures us we can come through this stronger than we ever were, but I don’t believe that. I know I will never feel as safe with him as I did – even when he was doing this. He was my “safe” place – my refuge when life was falling apart around us. I believed that, why wouldn’t I? He always said what a blessing our marriage was. I had no reason to doubt him – and every reason to lean into those things with my whole heart. I feel like part of me has died.

        If anyone has any suggestions as to how a 58year old woman can survive, let alone, get through this, I’m open to suggestions.

    • PTY

      I tend to agree with Dr. Frank Pittman that once “romance” enters into the equation, the affair partners have a temporary insanity. A lot of us call it “fog”. Not sure if there is anything we can do to change that. If we try hard, we are “clingy”; if we don’t try, then it is proof we have given up and accepted it. Maybe we just have to hang on for the ride.

      • Doug

        PTY, There may be some credence to what you say, as in most cases (according to Dr. Willard Harley) the fantasy will fade and the affair will die on it’s own.

        • PTY

          Unfortunately, there may be a lot of collateral damage along the way. It may “burn out” more than “fade out”

    • melissa

      Hi Doug
      I think you’ve nailed it. Many of the CS think that an EA is not a real affair because there is no sex so it’s fairly easy not to cross that line because that would be going into the big scary world of ‘doing something bad’. My H kept saying he had no ‘relationship’ with ‘the woman’, even though he lied and cheated to see her and admitted (after quite a while) that he ‘perhaps was infatuated with her’. I tried to explain that a relationship is something that happens when we have interaction with anyone (neighbours, teachers, friends…) but to no avail. As far as he was concerned there was no relationship and that was final. I’m not sure how he thinks now, though.

      This insistence on equating a PA with a real affair and allowing oneself to believe that an EA does no harm is the reason why BS have such a hard time getting their CS to understand their pain and also to let go of the affair – in their logic, why does one have to let go of something that is not there and does no harm anyway? Little do they know of how many boundaries they’ve crossed, how heartbroken they’re leaving their wife or husband and how difficult it will be for them to gain trust ever again.

    • Jessica

      Melissa, you are so right on every point. When I first found out my H said he didn’t sleep with her so it wasnt an EA it want until a week later when I went thru his past phone bills and was even more devastated to learn the truth and how long 7 mints this went on for. Until this I had never even heard about EA. I appreciate all of Linda and Dougs honesty in their writings I never would have made it this far.

    • Kathy

      After our D-Day my H also insisted it was not an affair and he was not cheating! I didn’t even think to ask him what he would call it, then, since he was hiding phone and text messages, keeping his phone locked, going to work early and staying late, and then when it all came out, he was ready to leave me for her! I would call that cheating and an affair!

      Hurting and Yuki, you both have it exactly right. I would only like to add, I wonder how my H would feel if the situation had been reversed. What if I had been as self-centered and selfish as he has…what if I was able to see another man and just look right past any suffering I was causing my H. I honestly don’t think he would forgive me. I honestly think, if the roles had been reversed, the harm would have been irreparable and we would not be together.

      • Yuki

        Absolutely, Kathy, my husband has actually admitted that he would probably not be able to forgive me if I had an affair. It’s that selfish streak – they can dish it out but they can’t take it.

        My husband is normally a private, quiet person. So even under normal circumstances, he is not very expressive about his feelings. It was all very different between him and her – in every email he professed his undying love and did all sorts of romantic things. But I guess that was the fantasy world of their affair. With me, it has never been that way. But every once in a while, he gives me a gem that I hang on to when the going is tough. One day, a couple of months after D-day, he told me that he is so grateful that I have decided to stay because he knows he could not do what I am doing for him. He said he would make sure I never regret my decision. Since then, we have had huge blowouts, he has threatened to leave, he has told me that I should find someone better, and I have questionned whether he truly loves me or if I’m just the default partner that comes with the package deal of his family and lifestyle. But somewhere in the heat of it all, I always remember that day when it felt so real as we talked about those things, and I remember why I’m still here.

    • Broken

      In August I found out my husband was having an EA with a woman at work purely by accident and through the cell phone bills. This was 18 months long. My self worth has been destroyed and my life turned upside. I have been married 30 years. My husband ended the EA the day I found out and she no longer is at his work. As far as I know he has had no contact at all with her. I have complete access to any and all of his email, cell phone, any social accounts. He hides nothing but at times gets irritable when we talk about the EA but he reluctantly will. Of course he just want to put it behind him. When I first found out he said it gave him a thrill and they had “moderate” feelings for each other whatever that is. He denies saying that though on the day I found out.My feelings are on a roller coaster and the pain is so intense some days I can’t take it. He is trying really hard to change and to save our marriage as am I. I just wonder will this pain ever go away and when will I trust again? He was staring into my eyes the other day and he said he loves me so much but could not see that love for him anymore. I fear he may be right. The anger I feel is awful. I have never contacted the OW allthough I have wanted to. Somedays I think I would rather not be with someone who could be so selfish and hurt me this way. Is this all I have to look forward to for the rest of my life? I was a fool to believe that he would never hurt me this way. We have been together since we were 14 years old (we are now in our 50s). He went through some bad times at work but we have been through worse when he turned to her for supposrt. He told her some things that I had shared with him in confidence and he shared the good and bad about our relationship. We have 4 children and 2 grandchildren who would be devastated to hear that the man they think their dad is, is really a lie. I am so tired of pretending that I dont hurt to everyone else and tired of smiling and acting like all is well with us when inside I am dying. I tried counseling but it doesn’t help. Where to go from here? Will this pain end? Is this normal to think this way? Can you ever really trust your spouse again after such a betrayel? I just don’t know. Today is one of those days I want to throw in the towel.

      • Devastated

        I stumbled across this site and your post just now. I’m married to a good man for 20 years now. He began an EA six weeks ago while on a cycling trip in Spain. I did not go on the trip. I found 70 emails between the two of them in a two week period! He denies having anything but a friendship with this single woman who so 20 years younger. We have been through hell. Counseling has been mildly helpful, and my husband swore to me, promised and reiterated that he would never have contact with the woman again. I asked him last night if he has been in touch with her and he said yes. He mailed her a notecard (with a bicycle on it) with an SD card of all of his photos and videos from the trip. I’m once again totally devastated. He gave me his word. I will never trust him again. He was very defensive and said that he wanted to close the chapter with the OW and that she had asked him for the photos. I believe they will maintain some sort of contact. In everything I’ve read about EA’s it is clearly stated how terribly critical it is that all contact is severed. We have a 17yr. Old daughter who will be going to college this coming summer. In my heart I believe my marriage is largely over. Ugh.

    • Josh

      I’m a middle aged married male with kids in a very intense emotional affair (over a year) that started when I reconnected (she emailed me) after 20 years with the one person that I always had thought was ‘the one’ (I had never told her but did not long after we reconnected) Now it has started to get physical. My whole life is upside down, I’m doing things I never would have considered. This ONE PERSON is the only person I had such a weakness for. I can’t stop it. More to the point, I’m sad but I don’t really want to. I know I risk losing everything, but part of me thinks maybve its time to start a new life. I have found this site and am reading everything. Is there a discussion group to deal with this? PLEASE HELP!!

      • HurtingHubby24

        Well Josh,

        My advice is that it’s wrong for you to have your cake and eat it too. Would you want to be living in the dark, thinking everything is great, while your wife screws around on you? Of course not. So you have a choice. Either get your act together, cut the crap, and devote yourself to your wife…. or tell her flat out what is happening, and leave with the other woman. You need to pick one or the other – playing the field and sneaking around in the shadows is not fair to anyone.

        Frankly, if you think it’s time to start a new life with another woman, then I think maybe your wife ought to be able to start a new life with another man. Someone who will love her, honor her, and be faithful to her. I’m not advocating cheating and I’m not advocating divorce, but if you “can’t stop yourself” and are going to keep this up, then at least have a small speck of decency and let her go so she can find someone who will treat her right. (You might want to consider, by the way, how you’d feel about another man making love to your wife, taking your kids on vacations and to ball games, sleeping in your bed, and living in your house courtesy of alimony money from you. Because this is most likely what WILL eventually happen if you decide to keep cheating on your wife and/or leave her).

        Hope you’ll think this through clearly and be fair to your wife, one way or another.

      • Norwegian woman

        You sound like my husband… He also reconnected with a past fling. Lost his head and fell deeply in love….
        I found out, and he stopped. Today, he is so greatful that I found out, because he was living in a bubble, with no contact with the real world. The fantasy of her, had nothing to do with who she really was, but it took a while afterwards before he found out..
        First. A woman starting an affair with a married man…. What does that say about her integrity? Is that the kind of woman you will risk loosing your wife, who has stood by your side through thick and thin ? Do you want to switch from a woman standing by her man, to a woman who wants what she wants, and she really doesn`t care how, as long as she gets it?
        Of course, you probably think that you are so special to her that she can`t help herself….?
        The OW showered my husband with compliments, how much she had thought about him over the years, how she had regretted that it did not become him and her, what a wonderful person he was, how attractive he was, a good listener, a wise person. How she had exactly the same interests as him, wiew of life etc. My husband thought he had found his soul mate.
        She thought that a man that cheated on his wife was wonderful and wise ! Think about it! Another warning sign of her integrity.
        Of course, she wasn`t really a copy of my husband. She was being kicked out by the man she lived with, and she was desperate to get another. In her past, she have moved all over Norway to get men. She just HAD to have SOMEONE, ANYONE. And my husband took the bait. All she had to do was to tell him all the things he wanted to hear, make him believe they were soul mates and she would get what she wanted. She made a pass on a married man because she had no integrity.
        My husband was so dazzled that he could not think straight. At the time he did not think about the fact that I had stood by hi throughout the years, had his kids, taken care of his needs, created a good home, loved him and accepted all his good and bad sides. I had seen him at his worst, and still loved him. I knew all about his insecurities and faults, and still loved him.
        The other woman had never seen or went through all this. With her he was all that she created. Warm, wise, thoughtful, smiling, kind, loving etc. Would she think as highly about him if she had seen his grumpy, egoistic, unkind sides?
        He knew I loved him just the way he was, because I had INTEGRITY. He knew she loved him because she had never seen all sides of him. Because it was a FANTASY.
        It was a easy choise, when he had some time to think. But it wasn`t easy. It is hard to come to terms with the thought that the affair is only a fantasy, not reality, and that no one lives forever in a fantasy. Reality comes knocking after a short while…..
        My husband took the right choise. The thought of what he was about to do, makes him cold with fear, guilt and shame today.
        Switch to reality, before you loose it all…….

      • Norwegian woman

        And about the fantasy of “The one”.
        Have you ever heard the expression. He met Lisa and knew that he had found “the one”. Three years later he married Mona….. After this woman (who probably dumped you at that time – and you couldn`t believe it), you found another “the one”, that you married….

      • blueskyabove

        What are you honestly looking for on this site? You say you “can’t stop it”. You say you “don’t really want to”. Are you expecting validation? If so, then you are on the wrong site. I suggest you go to http://www.ivillage.com and check out the MAS (My Affair Support) board. There you will find tons of justifications for continuing with your affair. You will also get to read about all the incredible, out of this world sex with your affair partner. In other words, you can continue to feed the fantasy.

        If, on the other hand, you are truly seeking help then your first step is to stop lying to yourself. For example: you can’t refer to it as “an intense emotional affair” if it has become physical. They don’t go together. It’s not that complicated.

      • J

        This is about physical affairs but I found it really good- that being divided, torn between two people, is the inevitable result of an affair and not because of special meaning in your affair.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/fashion/12Modern.html?_r=1&ref=modernlove

        • Doug

          J, a very good article, thanks. Linda

    • FinallyOutofIt

      Josh, I can relate a bit to your story. Not so much the reconciliation with an old friend, but being in an affair with those feelings of wanting to start a new life. Luckily for me, the OW got scared and pushed away. But I was all ready to walk out the door…

      After getting out of the “fog” and thinking through the affair, I realized how much of a fantasy it was. Trust me – I don’t know how you spend time with the OW, but it’s not real life. I’ve been there – the feelings, the emotions, the sex – all of that. It’s a huge rush and feels great. Finally a woman shows you the attention you crave. I get it, I really do. But it’s not real life.

      You don’t say anything about your relationship with your wife. Or the situation the OW is in. But here’s what I also realized. You need to look at your relationship with your wife and with the OW separately. It can’t be a “I’ll leave my wife for her”. I firmly believe you need to look at your marriage first. Do you want to stay married? Have you done everything you can to stay married? Would you leave if not for the OW? If after all that, you decide to leave, then get divorced. THEN, look at a relationship with the OW.

      This might not be what some on this site want to hear, but I would never tell you that you wouldn’t be happy with the OW. Perhaps she is the “one”. But while you’re in this fog, you can’t think straight. Plus, you’re experiencing the best parts of a relationship with her. There are no dishes to be done, no garbage to take out, etc. That’s why you need to be clear about your current relationship. You need to figure out if you want to leave – because of the situation, NOT because of the OW.

      • Karen

        FOOI: So glad to see your update!! I can tell you’re in a much better place from your fence-sitting just a few months ago. And your second post in this section I completely agree with!!!
        Imagine that 🙂

        My H and I are making slow but sure progress in rebuilding our marriage, and it is very, very tough as I have no trust in him.
        While that would seem to support your decision not to reveal your affair to your wife and seek forgiveness, I’m hoping for your sake that your OW or her H does not have a vindictive bone in their bodies and that you’ve done an exhaustive job of erasing all traces of your affair. As you can see from reading here, even if the affair is over when it is revealed, the damage to the BS is very deep and long-lasting. Forgiving yourself for that is part of the work that you have done or need to do in the future.

        The other “issue” I see is what you learned about yourself (Doug mentioned this also). Hopefully my H has learned that he is prone to letting his selfish/narcisstic traits overtake his moral compass very easily and that my H likes to take the easy way out rather than doing the tough work necessary to develop skills he does not innately have, like communication for one. Is this issue common among all CS’s? Maybe. And I already adore your wife as I know she must share the BS trait of never imagining their spouse would have an affair and that, despite problems in their marriage, know they themselves would never cross that line . . . ever. And your W and I also have in common that we picked a spouse to marry that, while imperfect at best, is able to correct his/her actions (okay, maybe a bit on the slow side) to match the moral code that is required if one is going to stay married. Otherwise, get out of the marriage. (Yes, I am a very black and white person)

        I have learned much about myself also – the affair was not my fault although I contributed to creating the environment in which it happened; that I am a classic codependent (still working on that); and that I would never cause my H to suffer the pain that his affair has caused me.

        Hoping your marriage, now that you’re fully in it after a long absence, will thrive as you and your W grow old together 🙂

        • FinallyOutofIt

          Thanks Karen – I am definitely in a much better place. Reading through your post and the others on this page definitely supports my decision. I can’t see the OW saying anything and it seems doubtful her boyfriend would find out at this point. But I suppose that’s always out there…

          The idea of taking the easy way out definitely would seem to fit. During the time I was thinking of leaving, I remember reading (either on this site or elsewhere) that simply changing your spouse doesn’t fix anything. Meaning that whatever problems you have with your current spouse, will eventually be repeated with your new one. Unless you fix the issue – often which is probably communication.

          And yes, my wife definitely shares that trait. It would seem that the two of you have quite a bit in common. Maybe that’s why I like you. 🙂 (not like, like – you know what I mean).

          I can’t say that things are all great at home, but all in all they’re better. We still have plenty of up and downs. But we’re trying….

          I do appreciate all your help and forcefulness – I hope you and your H’s relationship will thrive as you wished for me…

      • blueskyabove

        You know all of the buzz words, don’t you? Here is reality: if you are still looking for the “one”, if you think it’s someone else’s job to make you happy, then you are still clueless. Is your wife also entitled to be clear about the current relationship or are you the only one who gets to make all the decisions?

    • Yuki

      I recommend you read the blog Secret Life of Jane. Her February 25, 2010 post is titled 30 Reasons to Stop an Affair. She had an affair with someone she thought was her soul mate. To the right side of this page is a link to her blog.

      You’ve already screwed up, but maybe this will help you see the light. There is never any good for anyone on any side of the situation in an affair.

    • RR

      hi Linda,
      I have been reading alot about the 180. Is there a difference between what you were trying with Doug, the backing off and working on youself while loving and supporting him, and the 180 method? Maybe you have read enough about this to give me a clearer perspectinve. Maybe others can give me more insight into this…

      • Linda

        RR, I guess what I did was more I backed off and started doing things with my friends, worked out, etc. I also tried to implement the suggestions made in the book “Divorce Remedy” no more begging, pleading, calling all day, asking out on dates etc. Just focused on me and tried not to bring up the affair so much. The book has good suggestions on how to approach a situation like this differently than what you may be currently doing. Linda

    • GG

      Your post angers me. Doug doesnt’ deserve you.
      He chose to go outside his marriage and continued to do so even though you found out about it. How does a person continue to rip the heart out of a woman who is his wife?
      Tanya will get hers, what come around goes around, Karma is a bitch. How dare this woman get involved with a married man!

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      Your words are my story. One day on this site I asked if leaving him would make this pain go away? All the answers were no. IRS been eight months since Dday he has been doing everything he can to make it up to me and sometimes I’ll go a week two weeks feeling better and then wham depression. I still could never imagine someone I trusted could have done this.

      • Broken

        Hi Jessica,
        Thanks for your reply. Today is one of those days I feel like giving up. I feel so needy and I hate it. My H is trying hard but he has been irritable and I cant seem to say anything right. We talked about the EA alot the first few months but now I am afraid to bring it up…it is never the right time. I cant continuously beat him up over it. How long should it be before you dont talk about it anymore? I feel like I constantly need reaasurance from him that everything is allright. I hate feeling that way and that makes him mad at me. I can’t always expect him to act happy and “perfect” towards me because we are all human and everyday is not a perfect day. I am so sad today and so ready to not feel betrayed and angry. I look at the OW face on her facebook pic…and I cant believe he did this to me. I hate him and love him all rolled up into one emotion. Did you stay or did you go? How long has it been for you? Are you still hurting? AM I crazy?

        • melissa

          Broken, what you’re going through is awful but it’s quite normal. No one can say how long it’ll last and I fear it’ll never completely disappear from your life and your mind: it’s happened, you can’t erase it. I don’t mention the EA any more because it brings out the worst in my H and I still don’t trust him and he knows it. I need re-assurance, which he does not always provide at the right level (he re-assures me that he loves me but not that he has ‘come out of the fog’ and has no contact with the OW, which is what I really want to know).

          Like you, I look at the OW’s pictures or what she posts online and I keep tracks on her, sometimes a lot, sometimes not that much. So you see, you’re not alone.

          Hang in there and keep being strong, look after yourself.

          • Broken

            Hi Melissa,
            Your right it happened and I can’t change that. I just absolutely long for the feeling that our marriage had, just the 2 of us but that is gone now. I want August 24th back…the day before I found out. I want to stop feeling this way. I want these thoughts to stop dominating my mind. I want to sleep at night again. I want to look into his eyes and say I love you without hating him at the same time. I want my life back. I fear the only way that can happen is without him.

            • melissa

              Broken, I know how you feel. I also longed deeply for the time ‘before’ but now I just long for the trust I have lost but I’m also grateful that I am learning to be more aware of my husband.

              He was in this EA for seven years ( on and off, I guess, I don’t know much about it). Yesterday I asked him why he’d changed and he would not reply but he now seems to be looking at me like I exist again, he says thank you for small things, he seems happier. Before, he had gradually become either totally disinterested or extremely critical of me. It’s like he was looking OUT not looking IN and I barely existed in his life except when it was convenient or when the OW wasn’t around. I feel we have both lost seven years of our life together and I feel very sad about that but I am hopeful that, maybe, we’ll have both learned a lesson and it won’t happen again…but I dare not be sure.

            • Linda

              Melissa,
              You said that your husband was in an EA for 7 yrs. on and off. Mine was in one for 3 or 4 yrs., can’t get the truth about that from him. He says 3, the other woman’s husband says 4. Why can’t he just tell me? My H actually went off on 2 definite weekends and slept in the same bed with her, but swears that they didn’t have sex as that would be crossing the line for him. These weekends were 2 yrs. apart, so I sort of believe him, because why would someone wait 2 yrs. to have sex again? I was just curious if you felt that your H’s affair was a S/A also due to the length of it. My H didn’t always see her as often as he wanted due to getting away from her H and 2 children. I still questioned if their were other weekends but I looked and I couldn’t find any evidence of any other weekends in the 3 yrs. of receipts that I looked at back then. 25 yrs. ago, we didn’t have access to computers like everyone does now. I threw all those receipts away, stupid me, but had decided to move on and had for 20 yrs. If I want them back I have to pay about $300 for them as the bank is no longer in business. Anyway, that’s not what you were talking about, sorry.

              I too feel like you and Broken, I would give anything, even 25 yrs. later as it’s all coming back to me to go back one day and never know about that A. as it was over, supposedly. The OWH’s letter said that it was still going on, but I can’t find any proof. In a way I feel that it was as my H didn’t seem remorseful after I found out, he seemed more angry and defensive like maybe he was still seeing her and because I was told about it, he had to stop it.

              I thought that I had such a wonderful 25 yr. marriage, loved him so much and things have never been the same. I did move on and chose to love and forgive him, but unfortunately due to his behavior these past 4 yrs. of drinking to much, due to stock market loss’s or problems in our family he sure wasn’t support of me. That made me even think that their was another A going on, but it wasn’t. Still not sure what was happening, but I didn’t feel the love and support like I should have been given. So all the memories and me looking at my life with him showed me that I did all the giving and him the taking. Only now is he trying to save the marriage and I don’t know if their is any love left. It’s all so very sad that a man who never intended to marry the OW would destroy a relationship that he had everything he needed, along with so much love.
              Linda

    • pete

      So I have been reading with fear. I need help. My wifes best friend whom We have been friends with for several years, recently (about 2 months ago) had a vehicle accident. She is single and needed a lot of help dealing with things, ie insurance new vehicle etc. She and I have spent huge amounts of time together last 2 months. She came to rely on me for much as she was unable to work or anything physical, home chores etc.
      My wife and I have been married for 36 years and I have never been unfaithfull and have hated thoses men who are. This has caught me totally by surprise, but I just can’t seem to quit thinking about her. I text her and she returns. I am becoming convinced that she is feeling the same. We have so much in common and we love the same things including my wife. But I can’t help but think I’m being unfaithfull. Nothing has been hidden from my wife, except how ive been feeling. My wife is part of our friendship. After reading all this info I wonder if I can stop my feelings. I have not crossed the line physically maybe Im nuts. After all of this I have become convinced that I need to cut this off now. I have to do so while at the same time finding a way to avoid hurting both my wife and friend.

      • Donna

        Pete…. STOP RIGHT NOW!!!! PLease, this is coming from a betrayed wife. YES, you are cheating on your wife, emotionally with her BEST FREIND. My husband did this with my best friend, however they crosessed the line and it became emotional like yours has and then turned physical. I now am dealing with the rejection caused by my husbands actions and now have lost a friend.

        You say your wife knows all but your feelings. Anything that you are keeping from your wife… about your feelings is a secret and it is betrayal. You like the feeling of being theere or the hero for this woman. She is the poor broken puppy and you are the rescuer. I have seen it all before far too many times. She is making you feel good for all the hero like qualities you are showing her. You may know her because she is your wifes best friend, but I bet you that if you crossed the line and hyperthetically moved in with the ow you would see a totally different person.

        I repeat… STOP NOW! RUN and shut the door on her. Do not tell the ow why you are doing this, you owe her no explaination. She is not yours to worry about. You have a wife, she is what you should be concerned about and only her.

        PLEASE, I tell you this because you have no idea what you will get yourself into if you cross boundaries. The turmoil, the destruction that will happen. Well done for coming on here and before it is too late. Please keep us updated, I want you and your wife to be happy, not you and your wifes best friend. Good luck on breaking away and closing the door. Keep posting and asking questions. Good Luck!

        • pete

          Donna I am sorry for your situation. Thanks for the reality check. I DO NOT WANT this to go further. I have stopped things after I made that 1st post, I thought. After your comment I see I need to take things further to stop things.

          • Donna

            I am so VERY PROUD of you and for talking to your wife. Because of what you did shows the love and respect you have for her. I too like so many others wish my husband had the respect to do what you have done, so I too applaude you.

            I too had not heard of emotional affairs before, to me it was just an affair. My husband started out by texting and talking every day and then it increased to 4 or 5 times a day and sometimes more. The other woman was my very best friend in the whole world, she was more like a sister tio me. I actually saw her 4 or 5 days out of the week and spoke to her on the phone ALL the time. Not once did I pick up from her that something was wrong, where as with my husband I new something was not right from the second time we met tis woman and her family. She was married at the time with 4 children too and we have 4 children too.

            There was a connection, she liked cars just like my husband, she was in a crappy marriage and so she would ask my husband for advice andhe would give a male perspective on things and then he started asking her questions for a female perspective about our marriage. They “thought” they were trying to help each other out in their marriages. Because they started to complain about the spouses they then created another common bond and it went from their. Myhusband and I were not in a bad marriage, more like in a rut. OW was in a crap marriage and so my husband became the rescuer tothis woman and she was the broken puppy and looked after her and fed her ego and because he ws doing that for her she was all grateful and ful of praises for him and stroked his ego. Before long the hand touching began and then more phone calls and more distancing from me and his 4 children and then the arguments and the more lies to cover up his 1st lie. All the while I was thinking I was going crazy because he made me out tothink I was imagining things. Little did I know I was right on, I just never once thought of an affair because I trusted the both of them. I actually thought I had the problem and was a terrible wife and ws the one who needed to apologise for being a terrible wife.

            Not long after they became intimate and onl;y were going to have sex once and then break it off and it happened liket his for nearly 18 months. I found out 9 months into the affair and I thought that wouldbe it, over and done wiht…not so. 9 months later and huisband moving out and him saying he wants his marriage but not being able to break it off with other woman and vice versa.

            My husband has been home now for 8 weeks, and I still do not know 100% if it is over with this OW. His actions say yes, but this once VERY trusting wife and person in general has had the very core of my soul shaken so severly that I just don’t know if I an trust him on this part. It is going to take years of recovering fromt eh aftermath of what he indulged selfishly in.

            He did say to me, if he had known what it was going to be like he NEVER would have entered an affair. No one would, so once again, I am so very grateful for your questions and your thoughtfulness to get out of something now before you destroy your wife. Yes, you may have stuffed up her friendship with best friend.. but you onow what… you are more important than the best friend and she will thank you for your actions one day. As for the best friend, if she apparently feels the same for you, then I am afraid, sheis not the friend she wants in her life. Been there and done that and I say she is better off without her… and so are you. Good luck in your recovery, it will be a process and please don’t be tempted to call her or text her or facebook her to ask hoiw she is doing, that is the slip up so many fall into and then it starts all over again. The sooner you withdraw the better off you will be. Good Luck!

            • pete

              Thank you again and I hope the best for you both. Im glad I was able to listen to you all before it got that far. Its going to be a long battle I think, Resisting the contact is proving difficult but I will succed and I hope your husband will succeed as well and you can get back to a life resembling what you had before.

            • Sam

              Donna, this sounds exactly what my dad is going through right now. He went once, then again (six weeks now) – Did his affair last??? and turn into a relationship, is he still with her?

      • Doug

        Pete, Thanks for sharing. That certainly was good of you to help out your friend in her time of need. But it’s time that you back off from helping and concentrate your effort on your relationship with your wife. It may be difficult for you due to your feelings, but it is for the best.

    • blueskyabove

      pete,

      Yes, you need to cut this off now. Do not expect your wife’s friend to take the initiative. If your suspicions are correct and she is indeed feeling the same way as you and has done nothing to stop, then you need to realize that she is not acting as if she is your wife’s best friend. Or yours either for that matter.

      You stated that nothing has been hidden from your wife except how you have been feeling. Does that include the texting? Has your wife read them? All of them? It is vitally important that you do not lie to yourself.

      My advice to you is to be absolutely transparent with your wife. Tell HER you need her help. Get your wife on your team! You can only avoid hurting your wife by being open and honest before this goes any further. Yes, it might be a tough subject to bring up, but I promise you it’s a walk in the park compared to what you will be facing later if you continue down this path. Keep nothing hidden including your sudden feelings for this other woman. It is the secrecy that feeds the fantasy of an affair.

      As Dr. Phil says, “If you want to know if you’re having an affair, ask your spouse.” That is really the only person’s opinion that matters.

      • pete

        So to both you and Donna I have now talked to my wife about what has been going on. I even had her read all the texting on my phone. Initially she thought I was overreacting. I showed her what I had read here and your comments. I feel 100% better however we have a lot of work to do to mend.
        What boggles me is that I never intended this to happen. I am religious and have prided myself on helping others and on my principles regarding the opposite sex. I feel ashamed and had never even heard of emotional affairs before this.
        Thanks for the push and thanks to the creators of this site.
        My deep regrett is that I have allowed me to possibly ruin my wifes friendship. stupid!! My wife still thinks I am overreacting but will talk to her friend and see ……… thanks. by the way pete is not really my name might as well come clean with everything!

        • blueskyabove

          Pete

          Bless you for going to your wife with this! Just reading that you feel 100% better is evidence to me that you made the right decision.

          If it’s any comfort most of the betrayed spouses here probably hadn’t heard of emotional affairs either. I think it’s safe to say I speak for all of us when I tell you we would have been so grateful to have had our spouse trust and respect us enough to talk to us in the beginning. Who knows how many people you have helped by posting your fear and concern, and your decision? I applaud you, Pete.

          Oh, and just so you know…blueskyabove isn’t my real name either.

    • Iva

      I gave my husband a choice to drop the OW and commit to fixing our marriage or leaving. After a little over a month of thinking he left. He now lives with her (as friends only) and another male friend of ours. I want him back even though I realize I deserve to be treated better. I did all I could to be loving and supportive and become better and fix anything he complained about and I begged and pleaded and all that stuff, but now I am just going on with my life with our boys, holding on to hope even though it dies a little everyday, It has been almost 50 days since he left and over a month since I last confronted him or begged or pleaded. Our marriage wasn’t bad, we had things stacked against us but there was light at the end of the tunnel but she came and he gave away everything that matters to her, even if they are only friends.
      I do not know what to do now, I do not know if he will ever get out of the fog.

    • Broken

      Pete,
      When I read your first thread I felt nothing but anger towards you because I knew the pain your wife was soon going to be feeling. I am not proud of you as someone else said because bottom line you cheated on your wife and you could have helped it and walked away along time ago. Cheaters don’t deserve praise. You can help how you feel about the trash that is your wifes friend. You can help your behavior and saying you can’t is nothing but an excuse. I have spent the last 8 months reading everything I can about what my H did to me. Would you like to know what the pain feels like. Many experts say the pain is equivelant to what woman feel when they are raped. So I hope from this day forward you do whatever is in your power to love and heal that woman that has stuck by your side for all os these years. Pull away from the trash that has betrayed her because her true character should be measured by the fact that she is cheating with her friends husband. Don’t kid yourself YOU CHEATED. You cheated in your heart and to a woman there is no greater betrayel. Boo hoo she needed your help. That was the excuse the OW used with my H because she was going through a divorce. Nothing but excuses from you, from my H and the trash woman you deal with. Don’t walk away, RUN AWAY and don’t look back. Your wife deserves all of you. There can be NO CONTACT with the other woman ever again.

      • pete

        thank you and I can feel your pain in what you have said.
        I agree with everything you have said. And I never said that I could not change, I am in the process with my wife. That was why I searched out what was happening to me and ultiimatly to my wife. I am gratefull to her and to all of you. If I wanted to continue I never would have written what I did. I appolagize to you for your husbands actions on behalf of men. I do not expecct praise I only expected help because of my actions.
        Sorry once again.

        • blueskyabove

          Pete

          Just for the record I stand by everything I posted to you earlier.

          It’s possible that either I or others misunderstood your initial post, but based on my interpretation, I gathered that you didn’t understand and didn’t like what you were suddenly feeling toward this other woman and therefore, you sought help. I wish my husband had sought help instead of allowing it to develop further.

          Good luck to both you and your wife.

      • pete

        broken
        just to add to my last staement, I did not even realize what I was doing until about 3 weeks ago. I felt bad and started trying to understand what and why I was doing these things. I admit I was flattered by the attention! I admit it I was feeling things I had not felt in a long time. And I new it was wrong thats why I took the action I have. Everything is now done. Instead of my wife being hurt she thanked me for talking to her. We together feel we were in a rut that was at root, in part, of the problem.

        NO EXCUSES I screwed up. My advice to other men who find themselves in this situation. Don’t wait, stop now and talk to your wife! Its the only way.

        • blueskyabove

          Pete

          I don’t think you screwed up. You ALMOST screwed up. You COULD HAVE screwed up but you didn’t.

          “Instead of my wife being hurt she thanked me for talking to her.”

          You made my day with this statement. It feels good to have you confirm for me that I actually knew what I was talking about! OK I have to stop typing now ’cause I need a hand to pat myself on the back. Thanks.

        • Broken

          Pete…your wife must be a saint because I don’t care if my husband told me or I found out the way I did the pain would be the same. I also have a REALLY hard time believing that anyone would not know what was happening to them especially in this situation but I have never been the cheater only the cheated upon. Everything is not done…it’s only the beginning. You owe your wife all the time and effort you have inside you to make this up to her. It doesn’t just …poof….go away. I am not sure what you told your wife because my husband told me he got a “thrill” out of the phone calls, text messages, etc and that he had “moderate” feelings for the OW. Thrill, mild, moderate, intense…it’s all the same. My H had feelings for another woman, he supported her, betrayed my confidence and hid it from me. He too said the week I found out that he was going to tell her goodbye and tell me because it didn’t feel right and no longer wanted to communicate with her. The pain is no different for me. I hope it all works out for you. Your wife sounds like an angel and a much better person then I could ever be. I forgive my husband but I will never forget. Time has only provided a small amount of healing for me and I pray for more. I use to look forward to 5 pm (the time he came home) now it represents an hour where I have to put on a happy face and act like what he did doesn’t hurt anymore. I dont think anyone who cheats deserves praise. We all have choices in life…we all have crossroads in life and opportunities to make the right choice. I am glad you have walked away and I hope you stay away. My only concern is for your wife. I hope she finds happiness.

          • pete

            Broken
            my wife is very forgiving, will she forget – probably not. I really don’t deserve that anyway. Is she hurt – yes. When I realized what was going on I made a change. I searched out what was going on. I was not caught. I told my wife everything. I hope in time you will find it in your heart to forgive AND forget. Only then can things return to semi normal. Like I said before I am not seeking your forgiveness only hers, and I have cut off the OW, but I do understand your need to lash out at me. Thank-you I needed that.

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      Sometimes I wish I never knew. Today for the first time in a long time I didn’t look at her facebook and didn’t look at the phone bills from last March, a good day so far then a good friend calls to go out for her birthday next week its her 40th and the Restaurant she wants to go to is. ….. A place my H took her to lunch at , all my happy feelings are gone he has even ruined where I can go have a meal at.

      My trust is gone I don’t even know Pete and I was thinking did he really tell his wife all the truth? And will his wife end up on this site soon?

      • pete

        I have been awake most of the night and I could not help but think about you. I was wondering, Are you being completley honest with your husband. You said to me anything that you keep from your mate is a betrayal. You said you put a smile on your face when he comes home and pretend everything is ok. To me that too is a betrayal. No your not in an affair and I understand your lack of trust. Im thankful I never got as far as your husband did, thanks to people like you. I have listened to everyone here and followed through. I honestly did not understand where I was until I looked here. But no excuse,
        I did tell my wife everything… have you? It seems to me that this is the way to deal with your pain, not by pretending everything is ok. Your husband needs to know these things, everytime you feel them! Pretending is fantasy is it not, that does not solve problems only compound them. I hope with all my heart that you can find a way to deal with it. Again I apolagize to you and hope that your bitterness and lack of trust can be overcome. Life’s curves have not been kind to you, my wife, and so many others. Perhaps counselling will help if you are not already there.

        • Broken

          Pete,
          Thanks for thinking of me. I am not quite sure what you mean that you didn’t go as far as my H because to me it was the same. We are 8 months into the recovery process and have discussed everything over and over again. I feel like I can’t continue to beat him up over a mistake that he made everyday. The feelings I have are my own and I have to learn to deal with the way I feel or leave. He trys very hard to make things better for me and I see no purpose to slap him in the face on a daily basis with what he has done to me. I did go to a counselor, a very good one at that, but it didn’t help.
          When we have those discussions regarding the EA, I feel better afterwards and he feels worse so what good can become of that? I have to admit I find it hard to believe that if you truely told your wife everything that she would thank you for it. Perhaps we are dealing with 2 very different things here. Nope you don’t need anyones forgiveness but your wifes and like I said before she must be saint to just let this go and move on or you didn’t tell her everything or this is a totally different beast. It really doesn’t matter. My anger and hurt are my own and no different then anyone else who has gone through this or ever willl. I have forgiven my H. I have been with him since I was 14 years old and we are now 52. I grew up with him and built a life with him. He has destroyed the sanctity of our marriage and it will never be the same….ever. I grieve for the way I felt before he allowed someone else access to our union. Before he shared his hopes and dreams with a stupid whore who’s H just got done cheating on her and she was divorcing him….so go figure. Make another woman go through the same hell you just went through…I don’t get it. So now I have become someone I don’t like. Someone who is sad all of the time, who doesn’t trust anymore, who feels angry most of the time. My H knows how I feel. I mostly act happy because I have children and a grandchild that lives with me and they deserve a happy home. They deserve to never know what their father and grandfather did to me because he didn’t do it to them. He is a good man who made a mistake but I can’t help how I feel. I don’t have much compassion for men or woman who cheat on their spouses. I once told him that we could work through anything in our marriage but cheating was a deal breaker for me. I just never thought I would actually have to deal with it. I am not the bad guy here Pete. I am not betraying my husband and I am honest with him. I even care about not making him feel bad it. I own my feelings and maybe someday when it doesn’t hurt so much I can live again. I hope everything works out for you.

      • pete

        Sorry Jessica I was responding to Broken and I read your post thinking about her Its been a long couple of days.

      • Broken

        Jessica…I thought the exact same thing inregards to your last statement. I just don’t know how anyone could say thank you for telling me that.

        I know how you feel anout the restaurant…..my H use to go to this sports bar with everyone from work including her and when I drive by it I feel like puking. I also look at Facebook amd the cell phone bills…almost waiting for him to slip up but he hasn’t in 8 months. I went a couple of weeks even forgetting about it but it’s back. I have triggers that make me feel bad.

        I don’t know if I wish I never knew…I am sure eventually I would have found out.

        Anyways take care. I hope today is better for you.

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      I hope you have a good day too. Everything you write is what I feel, this past weekend I was ready to leave I just couldnt take the pain anymore but after a huge emotional conversation with H decided to really try again it’s a struggle everyday I am 52 we have four kids one grandkids and one on the way all our future plans seem so distant I can’t barely think past a week. There’s no way I can beat him up everyday for what feeling but he knows were not okay were not there yet he asked me this weekend will I feel this way until he dies? And I said honestly I don’t know and that in itself is horrible for him and me. My friend said I will start to feel better after the one year mark I sure hope so she went thru this but her husband also had a PA.

      • Broken

        We are the same age , have the same amount of kids and soon will have the same amount of grandkids. I feel the same way. I struggle everyday with these feelings and it is old and tiresome but they just won’t go away. Gosh I hope your friend is right and the 1 year mark is the ticket. How long has it been for you since you found out?
        I still feel the need to talk about the EA but like you I don’t want to continuously beat him up about it. So what do you do? I just suffer and don’t say anything and then I can’t take it anymore and we talk about it. He gets extremely sad and I feel better…that’s not healthy either. Do you just stop talking about it? I just don’t know. I am so super sensitive to his every mood and emotion and I hate being so needy. I have always been strong and independent, now I am a puddle of mush. When he is in a bad mood I think, probably talking to her again when I know he isn’t. But….really do I know he isn’t because he lied to me for 18 months and hid what he was doing like a pro so how do you really ever trust again?
        No one knows what my husband did. No family or friends know. My best friend is the wife of his best friend so I can’t tell her and I would never want family to think poorly of him even though he deserves it. So I have no one to talk about it with.

        My H told me my neediness gets to him sometimes. I was like really….then I guess you should have thought about that when you were having fun. I often wonder what they were thinking. Did it ever cross their minds that this would end and the people they are married to would be devastated. Was it worth it? I spend days not doing anything, I can’t seem to even do day to day things like I use to. My mind is never far from drifting back into the reality of my life. That angers me. The man I love, the man I thought would never hurt me like this…took away my happiness.

        Did you ever contact the OW? I never have but am tempted to. My H said it would embarass him but I could do it.

        Don’t you feel like…what do I have to look forward to with this person. Feeling like this forever? Yet the history is there, the love is there. I guess just wait it out for me and hope one day I wake up and the pain is gone.

        Hang in there.

    • Broken

      melissa
      Broken, I know how you feel. I also longed deeply for the time ‘before’ but now I just long for the trust I have lost but I’m also grateful that I am learning to be more aware of my husband.
      He was in this EA for seven years ( on and off, I guess, I don’t know much about it). Yesterday I asked him why he’d changed and he would not reply but he now seems to be looking at me like I exist again, he says thank you for small things, he seems happier. Before, he had gradually become either totally disinterested or extremely critical of me. It’s like he was looking OUT not looking IN and I barely existed in his life except when it was convenient or when the OW wasn’t around. I feel we have both lost seven years of our life together and I feel very sad about that but I am hopeful that, maybe, we’ll have both learned a lesson and it won’t happen again…but I dare not be sure.

      Melissa,
      That’s a good way to put it…to be more aware. My H is the same way. Tries very hard to listen more, to be more mindful of my needs. I have asked him why he didn’t do this before I found out about the EA. It’s is strange but I think they take us for granted and use it as an excuse to justify their behavior. Makes you think there is something wrong with you but in reality it’s the other way around. I guess in some ways things are better. In August when I found out,,,I thought it was one of the best months we had ever had. I guess thats what makes it so painful is that even when I thought we were doing great he was cheating. Makes it hard to trust. Did you know the OW? I read that if you are thinking about leaving (which I have) to be with someone new because they haven’t cheated on you…that you have a much larger chance of the new person cheating on you then your spouse especially in an EA. The pain you have both experienced teaches lessons. Take care.

      • melissa

        I sort of knew who she was but had never met her, except briefly once or twice in the last couple of years. She works in the same industry as my H. I confronted her a couple of times on the phone (the first time after D-day and then when my H and her got back in touch behind my back, allegedly for ‘work-related things’. She sounds selfish, immature (she’s in her late 30s) and seems to have a network of men she can call upon when she needs help (emotional, car trouble, work problems…). I think my H felt at some stage that he’d gone too far and was trapped as I did not know anything about their relationship, but he could not stop it until i found out. I suspect she used him but he lapped up the attention (men’s ego is sometimes very fragile, isn’t it!).

    • Broken

      Jessica the post date today at 2:01 pm was in response to your post to me…sorry forgot to put your name on it.

    • pete

      well here’s a twist for you, My wife has now said after talking with the other woman that I am the one with the problem and I am over reacting. OW has assured her that there is nothing from her end. She, my wife, is not going to stop their friendship. this is well… not good for me as she is over a lot. Maybe Im just crazy. Im done with this ….. frustrating and I’ll just bury my head in the sand. Hope for the best.

      • Donna

        I am sorry this is tough for you Pete. As for the “best friend” I would not trust her at all. As I have said before, been there and done that. Why did she call on you so much? why was she so dependant on you all the time for help? of course she is going to say what she did to your wife. Of course she would not come out and be honest. Of course your wife will believe her. My so called best friend later told me she was honest with everything else apart from anything to do with my husband. They are cunning and sly, so of course your wife will believe. She needs to watch for the signs. You need to show any text messages or emails or anything that she may send to you in the future if she does and vice versa. You need to let your wife read this post. I am serious, this ow is cunning and knows all the tricks. Keep us posted.

        • melissa

          I agree with you, Donna. Pete, if you felt there was something ‘strange’ in your relationship with this woman, then your instinct is right, it wasn’t healthy or ethical. Keep away!

      • Morrigan

        Hello Pete, I also want to express to you to please be aware and be careful. Currently I am watching my own friends got through this. And yes, she will deny it all to unfortunately save her own ass or because in truth, she may not have sorted out her own emotions as of yet. I have watched painfully as one of my male college friends (married) physically flirt, text, email etc with one of our female friends, who also volunteers at a foundation we have all been at for 15 years. When confronted he denies it all, and hurts our female friend, it’s been a cycle now for about 3 years. Every time he is confronted, he denies it all and says she is the one over reacting etc. At this point he has been confronted by 3 mutual friends, as we all have witnessed the inexcusable behaviors and wonder what the hell he is doing. And to be honest, as a female here, I think women are much more cunning in this fashion then men, not meaning to insult anyone. So please just be AWARE, do as others suggest and be up front and honest, show texts emails etc to your wife. Let her know that you just don’t ever want anything to be misunderstood, just don’t “play the game”. Some people are really great at it.

        It’s been very hard to watch my own friends going thru all of this as I am 9 1/2 months D-Day. I see it happening with so many people around me that I am beginning to think people can’t be monogamous. It’s just all really sad. You did the right the thing Pete.

        • pete

          Morrigan I will thanks I don’t want this to happen, I’ll try to keep positive.
          Tonight she cooked dinner here, she served me my plate, presentation is everything you know,she even dished it up. She poured me a drink. And I said thank-you. And I think I am crazy…………….

          • Adele

            I am new here though I have been following on some days. I’m going through some trials of my own and searching for answers and strength.
            Pete, to say thank you for being the person that you are.
            If you have trouble or are uncomfortable with scenarios like this, I would suggest you tell your wife and create some safe boundaries. You might want to make yourself scarce for any meet ups that involve her.
            Just a suggestion.

    • Jessica

      Broken
      I will write back later my phone is having issues……..

    • jessica

      Broken,

      I found out 8 months ago, July 27, 2010. I found out overhearing a phone conversation he was having with her breaking it off, telling her he couldn’t see her. My stomach was in knots, I couldn’t breathe, it was like an out of body experience. (his EA lasted 7 months)

      There are times when I have felt like calling her, from his phone, but then I don’t. There is really nothing she could say or do to help me and I would probably end up helping her more. She wasn’t understanding why he ended things with her, she emailed him three times afterwards, left him an emotional voice mail and even went to his office, he wasn’t there. He didn’t respond to any of those times so she finally called him from someone else’s phone, he was mad and told her she has to respect what he’s asked of her and not to contact him anymore. He never told her why their friendship had to end he just ended it. He immediately called and told me about each time she contacted him.

      I still don’t know why he got involved with her, she is a huge mess, had an affair with a married guy, got divorced from her husband in January 2010, her 16 year old son got in a physical fight with her and she called the police on him, this woman has very few friends and is a mess. He knew her for 15 years a business aquaintance, and said he was trying to help her….. she latched onto him and is crazy, he says it just happened…. what just happened this went on for 7 months, it wasn’t a one time lunch “date” this was calls, text, emails and many lunches….

      As much as I could see where she was the one in the beginning who was calling him, I blame him 100% (pete the same 100% at fault) because my H took that vow for better or worse, we used to joke no one gets out of our marriage alive, till death do us part…. now I cant even utter those words. So now its the worse…….

      There are times I have to decide not to inflict my anger and hurt on him, because I do know he is trying and I do know he feels remorse..and basically I love him and don’t want to hurt him, just for him to understand how much I do hurt. But other times I do because he is the one who caused this.

      I am coming to the conclusion that I can’t expect him to heal the hurt that he caused. I am looking for a new therapist to try and help guide me.

      I told my sister in law, big mistake, leave family out of it. My friend has given me the best advise but I don’t want to abuse our friendship by dumping on her everyday.

      • Broken

        It’s good to hear you feel the same way especially in regards to talking about it with your H. I hold my tongue alot when I want to talk about it for the same reason…to not hurt him. Is that like crazy? They hurt us beyond words yet we are worried about that but it’s true. I can’t beat him up everyday and expect us to heal. I agree with you as well, that we can’t expect them to heal us…we need to heal ourselves. I do feel that we should expect certain behaviors to be there on their part. I went to a therapist allreadt, didn’t help me at all. I actually felt when I was telling her everything like I shouldn’t feel the way I do. Anyways didn’t go back.

        I wondered about telling people too. I guess I definately won’t after what you said.

        I feel like calling the OW too alot just to see how deep it really was. I don’t know why I care about how much she felt for my H. I just do. I want to see if he told the truth about the EA.I have read that most H do not tell the whole truth and afterward don’t tell you everything because now they don’t want to hurt you more. I need the WHOLE truth…just give it to me and move on. Well at the point where I don’t bring it up anymore. I try and hang onto the good times we are having now together but it’s hard.

    • Broken

      Pete,
      The OW sounds like a very manipulative person. Lying to your wife will get her what she wants….time with you. Take the lead and stay away no matter what. I dont understand your wife at all. You have told her your feelings on this matter yet she still wants to be around this OW? It doesn’t make sense.

      • Broken

        Pete I also wanted to say that (and I mean no disrespect to woman) we as a gender are very manipulative. We can pretty much get anything we want from a man by saying and doing the right things and that includes taking you away from your wife. If she has feelings for you all she has to do is lie and you’ll still be there and she’ll still have her friend. Not quite sure what she told your wife for her to remain friends, If my best friend of 40 years went after my husband she would be GONE. No excuses and no words could make that ok. Good luck.

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      Now that I know I want the truth all of it that is why I ask him the same questions over and over. Doug has really helped I saw a post last night where you asked him questions and he answered them it helps to get the insite from his perspective. My H keeps saying I have the truth but he is out of the fog and so his answers are from how things are now, and he really doesn’t want to cause me any more pain. I told him I want to know everything I don’t want some crazy person showing me emails he wrote and being surprised he says I know everything I don’t know if there was a way I could get copies of every text and email I would.

      I wouldn’t get any peace from the OW it would be her warped perspective and not reality plus my H ended it and her motives might be to lie and so I don’t want that drama or her in my life she is not a person I have any respect for or would have as a friend her moral character is despicable. My H was married he should have been off limits.

    • pete

      This is my final post here I don’t think I am doing any of you any good. Good luck to all of you in your recoveries. I am a little closer to understanding myself now, and the depth of thinking wrongly of someone else and You have all helped, especially you broken. I really hope you will recover soon and you and your husband can resume as normal a life as possible.
      You have all helped me to be honest with my wife but especially to myself. In time my wife will see and hopefully I can keep myself in check.
      Thanks again and apolagize if I have caused anyone any pain.

      • Broken

        Thanks Pete….good luck. You’re going to need it.

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      Did you decide to contact the OW? Did your H say he would go to counseling with you?

      • Broken

        No I never contacted her allthough some days I really want to. My H said he didn’t care if I did but it would embarass him. Whatever that means.. I know the OW, she use to work with my H and I have been at parties and other functions with her. I think back on those times and wonder what she was thinking when she was looking at me, I wonder if there was any sense of wrong knowing she was talking to my H and acting like she was my friend. I could never do that to another woman so it’s hard for me to understand how anyone could be so deceptive. My H first said he would not go with me to counseling and then said he would because he wanted to do whatever I needed him to do to help me heal. I never asked him to go….I went alone. The only good thing about it was I could vent my anger with the counselor instead of with my H otherwise it was a waste of money.

        Would your H go with you? How are you doing today?

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      My H has honestly done everything I’ve asked and then some . Lunch time is always very hard, he’s a director and takes my calls at lunch because he knows I get anxiety if he doesn’t. Today he was going out to lunch with a group he asked me beforehand if I was okay I said yes then he called afterward, I am thinking this is so stupid on my part.

      I never met the OW and she doesn’t work with him I couldn’t imagine how you feel actually knowing her.

      How are you doing?

      • Broken

        Sorry it took me awhile to get back to you….I work weekends. I feel the same way when my H goes out for lunch or if I know he’s out with work. I get filled with anxiety. He travels alot and I dread when he leaves. He too has done everything right. That’s what is so frustrating that the bad feelings hang around.

        The OW wasn’t a friend….she was his friend. I only knew her from office parties and other events when she was there. I remember going to a girls night party and she was there. She stared at me alot and whispered to her friend while staring at me and I thought it was strange. Now I know she was after my H and that I was the fool because he was talking to her and sharing his hopes and dreams with her.

        I look at her pic on facebook and want to puke.

        Hope you had a good weekend. In away the weekends are about the only time I am too busy to care about my life.

    • Lori

      Hi everyone – I’ve been getting emails on this string because I made a comment early on. I want to say that I think all of you are remarkable people who have unfortunately gotten into a mess. Everything about EAs – Are. A. Mess. – period. From the obsessing that we, the betrayed partners endure, to the cheating spouse who just wants to ‘move on’ and forget about the damage because, well, we’ve forgiven them. Unless you have been betrayed, you can never ever EVER imagine the pain. It pierces the heart, infects the mind and attaches to the ego. One day you’re perfectly fine, happy knowing that you’ve moved passed the affair, the next day the most innocent of things can trigger a reaction that you never ever imagined – from passing a restaurant, to hearing a song, to having a 10 year old say…”daddy is playing Words With Friends with Gini” (or insert the OW/M’s name here) while you’re sitting in Costco and you’re entire world deflates but you can’t get mad because the kids are with you. And then when you do get mad, you’re portrayed as the ‘crazy’ one, the one who is making much more out of it then should…. And then you start to believe it. At least, that’s what happened to me. Then I found this site and all of you….. and we are all going through this together, and it’s a terrible way to find bonding between us all because of the subject, but here we are. My heart goes out to all of you who have recovered from this, who has a partner who has decided to stick it out, who chose you, who is working through the pain and hopefully getting to a place of real love, understanding and family. It will be worth it… I envy you. My cheating partner didn’t choose me – I gave him an ultimatum and he didn’t choose me. We weren’t married, but I have been with him for 4 years and I tried to get Gini out of his system. He had NC with her until recently and he’s now again ingrained in her life. I not only lost him, but his 2 wonderful girls that I loved as much as they were my own. And, I can’t see them. He made this out to be all my fault, because I’m making much more out of it than it is. Well, for those of you that talk about wanting to know what their emails say to each other; I say, no you don’t, you don’t want to know. Because, if you knew the truth, it hurts that much more. I read so many of their thousands and thousands of emails and instant messages back and forth to each other. They had a nickname for me, besides ‘crazy.’ He always told me about where they were going and what they were doing, so that was ‘ok’ to him because “they were just friends!” He obsessed about her, and wondered why I ended up obsessing about them. She was on a pedestal, but I was in the outhouse. It wears you down… it makes you feel like any self-worth you have is gone… it just plain sucks!! I say, love is a wonderful thing and worth every ounce of pain – – if he wanted me back, I know I would try to make it work. But I can’t with her in the picture; it just goes against everything that is right, ethical, moral and with my own beliefs. So, even though he’s out of my life, I still come here to help me through the rough patches. It’s been hard this week because it’s Spring Break and I wanted for the 4 of us to be on our family vacation like I thought I would get an entire lifetime of. I’m sad, broken hearted and wish that NO ONE should ever feel like this. I know that you all know what I mean and all I can say is THANK YOU!! xoxoxoxox

      • Broken

        Lori…..I just want to tell you that your post made me cry. I also could relate to everything you said and I read your post to my H….who is the cheater. He didn’t know that I go on this website. He saw me reading your post from my phone and I was crying. It was a way for me to express how I felt through another person. Thank you for your post.

    • jessica

      Lori,

      I hope you find the peace that you deserve.

    • Lori

      Thanks Jessica, that means a lot to me. Broken, I’m sorry you cried by reading my post, but I hope it was therapeutic for you. If we’re not growing and learning from our own mistakes, and mistakes of others, then we’re not truly living. Doug and Linda recommended a book called Real Love by Greg Baer that has helped me out, and if you haven’t picked up a copy, I highly recommend it as well. If you have a partner willing to work on your relationship, you have what you need. All you need now is more understanding and some helpful resources to get you where you want to go. Real Love will help me in my next relationship, if I can ever find one. I won’t lie, this breakup has torn me up and I’m trying to recover. If anyone knows a good blog or resource for me, please let me know. I feel like a fifth wheel coming here when my ex-partner isn’t willing to work it out with me.

    • jessica

      I am going to back out of my friends birthday party dinner this week, I just can’t go to the restaurant and have a good time. I also can’t go to his work either, I feel like everyone there must know she used to stop by and pick him up for their lunches……
      I do feel some progress though our youngest baseball season has started back up, and oldest daughter is enjoying her pregnancy and sharing everything with me. For the first time in 8 months I have been concentrating on that and enjoying the baseball games and haven’t really thought about the OW that much, it was nice to finally laugh and enjoy the moments. The sadness is still there deep down, but not consuming my every thought.
      I will buy the book Lori has recommended.

    • Brian

      My wife told me in early February that she wasn’t happy and she “was not in love with me anymore”. We’ve been happily married for 18 years (or so I thought). Needing answers, I checked the phone records and, sure enough, found that she had been texting excessively to a certain number for several months. I confronted her about it and she admitted who the OM was and that she had been to his house (inapprpriate!) at least three times but they were “just friends” and did nothing physical. Meanwhile her effort towards me and our marriage has been zero. No emotional or physical connection or even attempts to. She said she needs space and I have backed off. We are both starting counseling individually and, hopefully, we will start marriage counseling together soon. At this time she is unwilling to end the EA (she would call it “friendship” although they are in contact everyday, texting mostly). She has mentioned separating and I told her she is free to go, but she will not leave the house and I don’t think I should have to leave. We have two boys.

      What should I do? Should I stay home and ride it out hoping the EA will die? I’ve been waiting for couples counseling to see where we end up but at this point I think she is looking forward to a new life with him so I’m not optimistic…

      Linda, you said in an earlier post that you and Doug started reconnecting, having fun, being more physical, and that might have influenced Doug to have second thoughts about what he was doing. Doesn’t that fly in the face of the “Love Must Be Tough” approach. I guess I’m having a tough time walking the line between healthy distance and giving love to reconnect. Any advice would be helpful.

      • Linda

        Brian, yes in the beginning we did do things together to reconnect, more physical, etc. but at the time Doug was denying his affair. So while things were getting better I always had a feeling that there was something holding Doug back, well of course I found out later he was involved with another woman and didn’t want to give up either relationship. Eventually I needed to change my behavior because Doug was having his cake and eating it too. We didn’t stop doing things together, and being intimate, I just told him that I would not share him with another woman and I was going to move on with our without him. If the affair would have continued I would had to incorporate other techniques, but luckily it did end and I didn’t have to use all the tough love techniques. Linda

    • Roger

      I need help from anyone who can give it. I come to this site because it offers many “success” stories in that many of the CS’ have ended the EA and decided to work on their marriage.

      Sadly, that is not my story, yet. Dday for me was 8 weeks ago. When I found out, it was strictly and EA, but I think it has since progressed into a PA (don’t have any real proof, but I have a pretty good hunch). My CS says that she loves me, but not in the way that she should, that she loves me like a brother or a friend. In full disclosure, I have not held up my end of the bargain, as I took her for granted. I see the error of my ways now, and I am actively trying to work on fixing what I need to fix in me. My CS, on the other hand, says that she can not live without her AP, that she has given her heart to him, and that if she were forced to stop talking to him, she would enter the greatest depression of her life. I asked her why she hasn’t left me, and she said that she doesn’t want me out of her life, and that she wanted to talk to a counselor before she made any rash decisions. I asked her why she wanted to talk to a counselor if she were so sure that he was the one for her, and not me. She said because it would be a nuetral sounding board, one who is not me, him or her family. These seem like such mixed signals to me; on one side, she is sure, knows what she wants, and won’t commit to working on the marriage issues; yet on the other side, she won’t leave because she can’t live without me, and wants to talk to a nuetral person before making a decision.

      Over the last 2 months, I have learned that she is very resentful for the way that I neglected her. She won’t let it go at all. She won’t give me a chance to fix what I need to fix. Anyone out there have any advice for this situation?

      I believe that she is in the “affair-fog,” but she says that she is head over heels in love with this guy, and that she can’t live without him. She said that even with no-contact, her feelings will not fade. I laughed because she had just gotten through telling me how her feelings had faded for me because I neglected her.

      I am not sure if there is any hope, but I want to keep fighting, to stay in the marriage as long as I can. I will keep working on myself, and hopefully I can be one of the stories where my CS has decided to work on the marriage. Any comments would be appreciated.

    • Jessica

      Roger,

      I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this please take care of yourself first.

    • pete

      Well here is an update for those of you who are wondering.
      Its been a tough few weeks. But I finally had enough and confronted the other woman in front of my wife. We had a 3 hr conversation and set boundaries that would completely prevent a further reliance on her part, on me. She confessed that she had developed feelings but was feeling guilty towards her friend (my wife). We have come to an agreement that seems it will save their friendship. It needs to be stressed that things were at the beginning stages of a possible E A. (some of you probably think it was already an EA).She will limit contact with me although she will be here for meals etc once in a while. We enjoy friendship with one another and will try to be casual friends but no contact that does not include my wife. My wife is happy that I put it in the open and has to work at forgiving the OW even though she claims she was not trying to steal me away and I believe her. I think I was overly attentive and caught up in the moment. I am grateful to all of you for posting your stories because I think I could have fallen into a fullblown emotional affair and perhaps even beyond had I not had access to this information. It was research and finding this site that I even became aware of EA’s. IN a few other places I read that EA’s often start because of flirting with one another which seems innocent at first but can start a fantasy in the other persons mind and ultimatly the heart gets involved. That is what happened to us and that was the start of the mistake. Part of our aggreement is that my wife calls the shots, everything goes through her. Some of you may think this will not work. We would welcome your comments, And by the way my wife has read all my posts here and is helping me write this. She no longer thinks its just my problem but ours.
      Thank-you

      • blueskyabove

        Pete,

        Thank you for the update. I, for one, have been wondering about you and your wife. I’m glad to hear you are working together on this problem.

        To be honest I initially felt uneasy when you said there would be continued contact with your wife’s friend. That isn’t the normal recommended procedure. But then I realized that nothing about your experience has been normal. You chose to seek information rather just ‘go with the flow’ of your feelings. You then chose to tell your wife. Now we learn that the three of you confronted the problem head on. I am impressed. Each of you showed concern for someone else’s well-being. That is a rarity for those of us who have come face-to-face with this experience. I don’t believe in coincidences. I believe things happen for a reason. And based on that I’m sure I could learn a lot from your example.

        There must be a lot of mutual respect and caring in your marriage. Best of luck.

        • pete

          Thank you We will let you know if it works I too am a little uneasy about the continued contact. I have to be on guard that I am not just acting out the part of standing back, but so far it seems ok and the ow is keeping her distance well so… we will see.

    • melissa

      Pete, this is great news. I think you’re doing the right thing, especially making sure that you are not alone with the OW and that everything is transparent. In many ways, what is hurting so many of us BS more than anything is the secrecy and the lies – had my husband told me he was attracted to someone 30 years his junior but that he was aware it was ‘not right’ and he wanted to respect his marriage vows, we would have found a way to talk things through and build boundaries, he probably would have realised it was a stupid infatuation and we would have avoided a lot of heartache and the daily uncertainty of not knowing whether or not we will still be together and ladck of trust (for me).

      As far you you are concerned, being aware that you might fall into a trap/enjoy the attention/flirt (as you said earlier on, you felt something was ‘not right’ and your instinct was correct) is important. That awareness is paramount, as are the boundaries you are agreeing with your wife.

      This said, most advice is to cut absolutely all contact but your situation might be different. Try, every day, to look ‘in’ towards your marriage and your wife and not ‘out’ of it.

      • pete

        Good advice on looking into the marriage, comparing ow with my wife is out of the question. I think this will work but it is very stressfull for us. I am not sure that really the friendship will survive in a long run. There is a lot of tension, but my wife and the ow do not want to throw away what they have.

    • pete

      Well here is another update. It took about 2 weeks of me ignoring the OW, except for pleasentries when she came over, for things to come to a head and she finally attacked me. I could feel the presure building in her each time she came over and so could my wife. Without the attention from me it has all ended and now she is gone from our lives and my wife is now angry with her. It seems the advice found here to sever association is correct, the friendship can never go back.
      Its to bad really as she was a good friend for my wife and now I feel guilt for wrecking that. I have come to realize that she was after me, when it started I don’t know, but like a fool I responded the way us guy’s do. Sorry ladies.
      Well back to repairing my marriage.

    • melissa

      Hi Pete
      It’s probably for the best. You and your wife will make better friends, who respect you both as a couple.

    • Broken

      Pete,
      Not sure how old you are Pete but there’s an old saying “If it walks like a duck……..” I am glad your wife has seen this woman for what she truely is and that is no friend of hers. I don’t think you can continue to blame your gendor on your lack of seeing what was going on. You were an active psrticipant just like my H. It was thrilling for you and him to have this new found attention. My H OW was going through a divorce and “needed” someone to talk to. Woman like that are a disgrace to our gendor. They are selfish, self absorbed witches who don’t care about the families they are ultimately destroying for their own desires. There is no excuse for my H behavior either and he uses the same lame excuse you do…I didn’t see what was happening. That isn’t something I will EVER accept. Time goes on and I still deal with incredible pain but I try to control what I think, learn as much as possible and move on. I don’t know what books they recommend here but I just finished “Not Just Friends” and thought it was the best book I have read on the subject so you might try it. You may see yourself in it and your wife may find comfort. ANyways Good Luck

    • ppl

      i agree, just finished the book. author should be nominated for nobel in medicine

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      I was wondering how your doing.. I will order the book who is the author? I hear you about the OW and them being a disgrace to our gender. She is someone I would never be friends with, and now I have lost so much respect for my H. There really isn’t anything he can do to gain that back.

      • Doug

        Jessica, Not to hijack your comment, but the author is Shirley Glass, and “Not Just Friends” is one of the best books I’ve read on this subject. It is actually the very first book listed in our Library. I highly recommend it.

    • roller coaster rider

      Linda, thank you for being so honest. I think I am going to get a lot of help by reading what you have written. I have wondered how a fairly secure and seemingly successful woman like I thought I was could turn into such an insecure, clingy, self-doubting wreck but I do know that when I first found out I told some of my close friends and family that I felt like Japan. I also told my husband I wish he had just shot me because it would have been faster and less painful. I know it’s unreasonable to expect to feel good all the time even though we are working through things and it seems like our communicaton is better and closer than it has been in the past.

      • suziesuffers

        I am so there with you. I was always successful in my career, but deep down there has always been a self esteem issue….well, does infidelity drop an extra bomb on that one. The pain I feel over and over is unbelievable. The OW who probably couldn’t give a darn about my H or me now…..has totally taken over my life….and my thoughts. HOW dare she!! How Dare He!! Put me through this living H@##!! 2 years since D day….and I don’t have an hour that there isn’t some thought of his infidelities…..but I think the only pain my H has is when he sees me in pain. I don’t think he gives much thought to her. I don’t think he really thought what he did was all that bad since we were in the process of separating again due to his poor behavior…..so he had a “right” to such out Do you think he ever felt that way!! no….AND SHE certainly never felt bad (addicts never do!!). I’ve never felt more like dying than when I found out about her……..and the others……..and the lying and deceit. 2 years from D day…..and I’m still painfully in the middle of this mess….wondering what my purpose really is…trying to work with a spouse that is clearly broken at his core……..or just escape the pain and RUN!!!!

        • Roller coaster rider

          Suziesuffers, I just read your post from today, and I think you and I have a lot in common, and so do our husbands. Mine just keeps falling into this depressed state and doesn’t want to talk…it’s kind of like falling backwards with nothing there. And what you said about how much do I accept that is just plain unacceptable? It’s been so long.

    • Roller coaster rider

      Maybe your purpose isn’t just about him. Even if he doesn’t appreciate your loyalty and sacrifice on his behalf, at least you can look at yourself in the mirror and know you’re doing the right thing under incredibly hard circumstances. What I read yesterday from this website and the posts is that I need to be brutally honest and recognize there could be some reasons my husband chose to be with another (not good reasons in my opinion, but reasons nevertheless) and I want him to think about that, too. I really want him choosing us and our marriage because it’s what he really wants… If your husband is broken at the core, he needs help

    • Marie

      Omg! Linda? Why did you stay!? Please tell me why? I adore that you started this site. I admire Doug for his bravery within furthering the psyche field. I have to know why you stayed in such transparent gross abuse? I applaud you both for helping so many.
      What horrific abuse. I am shocked beyond words! I send you, Linda quantum physic hugs! You are so wonderful.

    • Marie

      Please put links to codependency on your site. So many men and women that have been betrayed need to join a support group. Do suggest that the betrayed leave right away unless finances prevent this. Linda … The health risks … Life threatening risk Doug set you and his kids up for are so severe … From strokes to heart attacks to cancer! I am in shock! It took me awhile to recover. But I kicked out immediate. I am just in shock! Thank you again both for sharing.

    • Broken

      Marie….a support group would be wonderful. Do they have such a thing? I disagree with you however that the betrayed spouse should leave unless there is a financial issue. That is an individual decision and I am not a professional but removing yourself from the situation will not allow for the interactions that must occur for a marriage to be saved. Perhaps for a short time to gather your thoughts but not forever. If I had left my H and I would not be together today. We are building on a daily basis a new marriage. Cant do that apart.

    • Brian

      My wife’s been in an EA for months now but insists its “just friends” even though all her contact with him is done secretly… excessive texting daily, secret meetings at his house where “they just talk”, etc. Not surprisingly she tells me she is not in love with me anymore. W e are both in individual counseling right now and hopefully we will get to couples counseling soon. For those of you who got the “just friends” line from their wayward spouse, how did you get them to realize/admit it was an EA, quit it, and recommit to the marriage. I’m reading and following “Break Free From the Affair” which is very good but the strategy of backing off is a bit frustrating in that it’s a passive kind of solution. I’m willing to take the time to see things through but has anyone have any thoughts about what else I should do? Is giving her a book on EA’s a bad idea? Seems like it would do more harm than good…

      • roller coaster rider

        Brian, she is in denial and until she comes to her senses, your frustration could possibly feed the fantasy she has with him. I confronted my husband twice and point blank asked him if there was someone else and he said no…which was a total lie. D day came on March 13-14 when I caught him once again texting secretly, after being on the phone and out of reach the night before. I think he finally ‘knew that I knew” and I wasn’t taking no for an answer. He also later admitted that his conscience was bothering him so much that he had even been praying, “God please stop this.” Ironically, he had broken out in terrible shingles and then got a staph infection with nasty huge boils weeks before D day…
        Then the anger came, especially after all the lies. It is an unbelievable pain. His affair was both emotional and physical, but I don’t think that really makes much difference, although it might make the cheater feel somehow better (Doug, what do you have to say about that?) The infidelity is still very real. We have been together for 40 years this June, married 35 in August, and our friends and family said “you are an institution”…
        Not so much…

        • Doug

          RCR, I think that to the cheater (while the affair is going on), that they will feel “better” if it’s an emotional affair versus a sexual affair. I think there is a belief that it is less painful to their spouse, but we all know that is not the case, and in many cases an EA is more painful.

          • roller coaster rider

            I can see what you say is true because for me, it would have been less painful (maybe) if my H had had a physical ‘fling’ but this emotional connection with the OP especially when he has for so long refused (or been unable) to connect with me that way is what I can’t bear

        • Brian

          I agree… my frustration could be a negative if I let it. I’m trying to act upbeat around her, no sad sack moping around. Not easy. I’ve been taking care of myself, exercising, running, getting out with friends… it helps.

          Most of what I read says that the EA will inevitably fade… I wish I could be sure. We had what I thought and all of our friends and family thought was a great marriage, soul mates and all. I’ve now learned that any marriage is at risk if one of you lets their guard down…

      • Doug

        Brian, We’ve received comments from others who have stated that showing their spouse a book on EAs, this site, or even a journal entry from yourself that shows the pain her EA is causing can be quite effective. I guess you always run the chance that she will totally reject such an idea and it could end up backfiring on you, causing anger and resentment, but it might be worth a try. Have you asked your counselor what he/she thinks?

        • Brian

          Doug,
          Coincidentally, my counselor recommended “The Emotional Affair” which is very good. I also have “Not Just Friends” which as you say is very good. I have a session this afternoon and I will ask her opinion and post back her thoughts. I do keep a journal and will keep that option in mind as well.

          Thanks for the advice and thanks to you and Linda for this website. Nice to know I’m not alone…

          • Doug

            Brian, I also wanted to let you know that I think that backing off is effective, but in many respects is really more beneficial for you. In my opinion (and what worked in our case), a combination of different strategies is more effective. For example, while backing off and taking care of yourself, it is helpful to try and reconnect to some degree with your wife. At first it can be as simple as re-engaging with her by doing such things as working together on a family budget, discussing some issues that exist with your kids, researching together the best new washing machine to buy, etc. Nothing Earth shattering or affair related, but just gradually getting her to re-engage with you and the family. You know your wife better than anyone, so you might know what sort of things might work. Linda was more or less flying blind at the time and didn’t know what she knows today, but we started reconnecting by going out and doing some fun things together –happy hours, going out with friends, discussing our kid’s activities, etc. It won’t make the affair come to a screeching halt, but I believe these little reconnections or re-engagements have a compounding effect over time.

            • Brian

              That’s been my dilemna… I feel if I give her too much space we’ll just grow further apart. What I’ve been trying to do is maintain contact with her by discussing issues concerning our boys, our house, finances, our families, etc and avoiding he relationship stuff. It’s like chipping away at an iceberg but I’ll keep trying. Right now she shows no interest in going out with just me but we have gone out with friends (with kids) so hopefully we will continue to reconnect inch by inch. Thanks again.

            • Doug

              Brian, I think that eventually your chipping away will break the ice, but it makes it a lot tougher while she is still in contact with the OP. Hang in there!

        • Brian

          My counselor recommended waiting until we start couples counseling which begins in two weeks (I wish it were sooner!). Her reasoning is once we start discussing the issue of the EA my wife might be more agreeable to the idea of reading about it. I agree.

          I’ve been trying to give my wife the “space” she said she needed however I have not left the house. Like we discussed, I’ve backed off as much as possible, however, last night she said she wanted more space and brought up the subject of separation, me leaving the home (of course). I asked her what she thought that would accomplish and she just replied that we will talk about it in couples counseling. If we agree to not “date” other people, then it might be helpful for her to figure things out, but, naturally, I’m wondering if she wants this just to be free to pursue her affair.

          Not very optimistic right now…

    • roller coaster rider

      Oh, and by the way, my H said toward the end he was saying to the OW, “Let’s just be friends.”
      Yeah, right.

    • Broken

      Roller Coaster Rider,
      For what its worth I’m going to share with you my experience…where I have come from and where I am right now…9 months since I found out about my H EA. These are purely my opinions but I can feel your pain…can feel Brians pain as well. My H cut off all contact with the OW the day I found out…..In fact he cut off any friendship he had with any single woman who he was just friends with. He did it for us because I asked him to. For your healing to begin there can be no contact between them. The pain I felt that day and have ever since has been some days unbearable. At first I lived minute to minute in a fog…I couldn’t even function. What I required from my H and he willingly gave to me was every detail…everything I needed to know about his EA. There can be no lies…no twisting the truth because I was waiting for him to slip up…believe me I checked…he never did. I felt the need to talk about the EA often at first and well it made me feel better it caused him great pain…it still does. This is one area he needs improvement because he doesn’t like to talk about it today….but he will. By the way we were the couple (together 37 years) that everyone envys…..the institution…the stable rock. Soulmates…..I wanted to leave…I was so angry with him and wondered how he could ever do this to me…how could I ever trust him again? I longed for that innocense we shared…that partnership that had never had anyone else in it untilshe came along. Can’t ever get that back and I grieved for that. I wanted to run from the pain…told him that as well. I didn’t. I stayed. Had I left we would not be together. You will never have back what was there before…you have to start over. At first we just sat together, sometimes in silence, sometimes we cried. We laid together at night and talked. We talked alot. We made a date night and we still do it today. We went away for a few weekends alone. No kids. We walked on the beach…drank somes beers. Started to rebuild a marriage that quite frankly I didnt know was broken. If my H wasn’t trying the way he does we would not be here. He works hard at always being acountable, always calling me, send me text messages for no reason, His life is an open book. It has to be that way….for now. Does he slip up…he sure does. I am so sensitive to his every word and so needy it drives me insane but I feel like…he did this to me He will have to live with what he caused for as long as it takes me to heal. I have days where I slip back into hell but those days are fewer. I want to trust him again…but I don’t yet. I want to get up in the morning and have a whole day where it doesn’t cross my mind…not there yet. Take care of yourself. This has caused me not only mental anquish but has affected my health. I now have high blood pressure and I am sick at least every month, sometimes twice with a cold or thr flu. It’s getting better. Exercise and eat right….. You are worthy and worth it. Life will get better…I promise you that. Today we have a new marriage…a marriage that is more sensitive to both of our needs. It isn’t perfect but it’s a start. It’s only a start and it has been 9 loooong months. I still look at her pic on facebook. I still go over and over my life for the 18 months my head was buried in the sand. It’s almost like everything I did those 18 months was a joke….a lie. I don’t beleive you can push your H or W to change or to leave the other person…they have to want it as much as you do. They have to want to save your marriage as much as you do. You can’t push yourself on them because people will run from that. We never told our kids…I know some people think it’s necessay…I personally don’t. My H made a mistake that nearly cost him everything he holds dear but I don’t feel the kids need their image of their father to be shattered like the image was for me. Good luck friends. It will get better. I am so sorry for your pain.

      • roller coaster rider

        Broken, I really, really appreciate your taking the time to share this with me. I have also insisted on certain conditions. The night I started finding out, I made him call her with me in the room to tell her I knew. At that time, he said, “My wife knows and we probably aren’t going to be able to see each other again.” The next day he went to see her and tell her it was definitely over. I also required him to tell our four adult children because I didn’t see how I could pretend everything was okay as we are all pretty close. I wonder now if that was the right thing to do. The second day after finding out I didn’t want to see him or talk to him so I told him to leave. I took off my wedding ring and said that he had broken our marriage commitment. I also told him I wanted a legal separation and property settlement agreement because I wanted to know where I stood financially, and as he is a lawyer I told him to draft these documents as if he were my attorney and I came to him with this story of infidelity. He did everything I asked, lived with his sister for a few days and then found an apartment. Within a week, he was texting me and I would occasionally talk to him on the phone. We made a counseling appointment, and there were many other things that happened, but the most amazing thing from my perspective is that God healed my heart to the point that I really wanted to take him back, and did so. There has been a little more counseling and a need for more yet, but we are still together and still working on, as you said, starting over. This website has been very beneficial to me, and I think to my H as well.

        • Broken

          Hi Roller Coaster
          I am glad you are working it out. It’s really..really hard. Probably the hardest thing we will ever have to endure and I have been through some bad things. This tops it all. The whole thing just makes a person feel out of control and so needy. I am looking forward to the day I can get up and never think about her or what happened . It’s hard for both of us allthough I felt little empathy for my H until recently. I realize he hurts too. I know he thinks I look at him diferently then I use to and maybe I do but I forgive him. It can’t happen again and I have made that very clear. I guess it is just day to day from now on. I know he longs for me to trust him again…not sure that will ever happen as I was lied to for 18months but we’ll see.

      • Brian

        Broken,
        Thanks for sharing. It seems that despite everything thats happened, you and your husband still share a bond of commitment and are working things through day by day. Unfortunately, I don’t feel my wife and I have that bond. The book “Not ‘Just Friends'” has a section that describes our situation… emotionally involved affair/ emotionally detached marriage. It’s hard to feel optimistic.

        I wish you all the best.

    • Jessica

      Brian,

      I had no idea my H was having an EA but I knew there was a distance I thought it was due to his brothers death. I finally started doing things for myself but also included him on more family and friend events this cut into time with the OW and the more he spent time away from her the more needy she became and this is when he ended it and I found out, I overheard that phone call. I don’t honestly know if he would have ended it sooner if I found it.

      • Brian

        My wife is increasingly resistant to doing things with me although she will include me in family events. I think we are approaching a tipping point to stay together or separate. The next few weeks will be very telling.

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      I started crying half way through your posting and couldn’t stop. Then I re-read it and still cried, your words are again how I feel. Somedays are better but today isn’t my H is really trying but not as much as I need, he said if it helped me I could call the OW but he would be embarrassed whatever that means?? I am menopausal so that is a good excuse at times but I work in healthcare and called out sick last Thursday and Friday not the first time since DDay and now anxiety about going into work tomorrow…..

      • Broken

        Hi Jessica…I didn’t mean to make you cry. I think about you often and wonder how you are doing. I once told my husband I wanted to call the OW and he said the same thing…that he would be embarassed but I could if I wanted to. I guess you have to do what feels right. I wanted her to tell me she really wasn’t interested in my H and this was all a big mistake…obviously that wasn’t going to happen…nice to think about though…so I didn’t call. I figure what is she going to say to me that I really care about hearing? I don’t want to talk to someone whos character is so flawed that they thought it ok to try and take my H and the father of my children away. Someone that tried to destroy a family…. but you have to do what will help you to heal. You are what is important. Did you get that book yet , Not Just Friends?….I bet it would help you alot. I know work has been really hard these last 9 months and I had just started at a new place and had a really hard time learning what I needed to learn even after doing it for 30 years. Jessica dont be so hard on yourself. If you are having anxiety see your doctor…I did and she put me on some meds temporarily…I am not a person who likes to take meds but it helped. I forced myself to walk and swim…last thing I wanted to do but it helps. Try it if you can. Don’t feel guilty for everything I know you are going through. Can you tell your H what you need since you mentioned you didnt feel your needs were being met. I wrote down everything I felt…I still do and then I read what I wanted to read to my H. Some of it was really mean so I didn’t read that to him but some of it he needed to know. Can you try that?

      • Broken

        Jessica…By the way the menopausal thing….me too! Sucks doesn’t it???? LOL

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      My H ordered the book for me thru amazon (I could have done it myself but wanted him to do more and this was on the list) amazon said 4-14 days.
      I just want to fact check a few things with the OW but she is a Stupid selfish psycho and I really don’t want her in my life so I haven’t made that call.
      I knew this week would be hard being Easter week I prayed at church extra hard for us. Mothers day will be the next hard trigger day.
      Maybe I will take your advice about needing something my doctor prescribed some antidepressant in October when I went in for an awful body rash and depression but it made me mad that I need to take something because of this, last Friday when I went in again for another flu illness she asked me to think about taking it.

      Thanks for your postings I was tempted to print yours put and show it to him, I will try and read him some of my thoughts but at this time there is too much anger.

      If at all possible some good has come from this we do communicate much more often and much
      more, he is am active part of the family and taking on more with the kids and grandkid.

      Thanks for being caring

    • Broken

      Brian,
      I think your gut feelings are right on…your wife wants you out of the picture to pursue her EA. I hope you don’t give into that request. She is still seeing the OM. Have you thought about exposing the affair to her friends, coworkers, family? Many people have said that is what woke their spouses up. Don’t really know but it seems like you are the one having to make all of the changes and you are the victim of the betrayel not her. I didn’t find counseling helpful but I sure hope you guys do. Wish it was closer for you because for some reason your wife is using that as an excuse not to talk about whats going on right now. Good luck

    • Brian

      So do you think I should stay in the home and bite the bullet hoping the affair fades? Supposedly they all do in time. As far as exposing the affair, I’ve thought about it, but I can’t see how we could ever reconcile after going through that ordeal, do you?

      Not many options for me and none are pretty. Sometimes I just want to drop the ultimatum “it’s me or him” but right now I know it would be him given her state of mind right now.

      Arrrrggh!

      • Doug

        Brian, there are some different schools of thought when it comes to exposing the affair. In my opinion, I agree with you in that at this juncture you would be taking a huge risk of alienating her further should you do so. It may result in you driving her even more to the OP. Though there may come a time in the near future where that might be a more viable option for you. Dr. Willard Harley believes that exposure is a good effective strategy, and he claims to have a high level of success in treating infidelity. You might want to hold off on making any decisions until after your joint couples counseling session. Maybe things will become more clear after that. Just wondering…Is the OP married? If so, does his wife know about the EA?

    • Brian

      Hi Doug,
      No the OP is not married and I do not know if he ever was or whether he has kids or not. I believe he has a girlfriend but they are obviously not exclusive. I do not know if she knows about the EA.

      My lawyer tells me to stay in the home and my gut tells me to as well. Don’t want to be seen as abandoning my family and don’t want to make it easier for her to pursue the EA.

      It’s gonna be a long, tense two weeks at our house… so different from the happy home we had just six months ago…

      • Doug

        Brian, I agree with staying in the home for the same reasons you mentioned. Keep doing what your doing, and hang in there over the next 2 weeks.

        • Brian

          Thanks, Doug. Thanks, everyone. You all give me a clarity of though I wish I always had. I’ll keep you posted…

          • Doug

            Brian, Something that I feel might be helpful to you is to look at today’s discussion topic and try to think about how this whole thing has made you stronger. As you go through the next 2 weeks, remind yourself of these strengths and perhaps they will help you through. Whether you list them on this site or not doesn’t matter, the point is to know that you are a strong person and you will make it through.

            • Brian

              Thanks Doug, I will try to do that.

    • Jessica

      Brian,
      Are you both seeing the same counselor?

      • Brian

        Jessica, more and more I think staying home is the right decision. Besides, this situation is not my choice why should I accomodate her? which I’ve done for far too long…

        Yes, we will be seeing the same counselor for couples sessions. I am seeing someone else individually.

    • Broken

      Brian….You should proably wait and see what happens in counseling. I’m not a big fan of letting people have whatever they want when they are hurting me…no killing me…..but I realize everyones situation is different. I made my H call the OW the minute I found out. I told him right then and there he would have to make a decision now that I am what he gets and if that wasn’t good enough for him then HE needed to leave….I wasn’t leaving. Finding out, telling the OW, giving him the choice of leaving or losing his family all happened within 1 hour of me finding out. I wasn’t willing to mold myself into someone that I am not and to play games with him. I am the victim not the other way around. It was a wake up call for him. Allthough we have never told our children (they are all grown adults) he also knew he that he would lose the relationship he had with them because none of them would tolerate what he did to me especially our sons. So I don’t know if you have kids, don’t know what your wife stands to lose should this come out. Stay strong…let the story unfold and soon you’ll know the direction this whole mess will take. Take care of yourself.

      • Brian

        Broken, you seem to be an amazing woman and your husband is lucky to have you. I only hope I can be as strong going forward as you seem to have been all along. For some reason society always expects the man to leave the home thinking the kids (we have two boys, 11 and 14, btw – yes she has a lot to lose) should be with the mother. I intend to stay and be strong. Thanks for your inspiration!

        • Broken

          Right now their mother isn’t thinking straight and they need a daddy too. Hang in there.

    • Jessica

      Brian,

      I would stay at home as hard and painful as it maybe I don’t think we would be together if we lived apart. My H didn’t think he was having an affair because it wasn’t physical it took time for him to accept that it was an EA, to be honest neither him nor I ever heard this term before.

    • Broken

      Brian
      Glad you have decided to stay put for the time being. It’s going to be hard but you can do it. I know it hurts like hell….something you never thought you would ever have to feel. Just ride with it. I am not as strong as I appear…some days I was just a blob of emotion and believe me I let him see that. I let him feel the awful pain I was feeling and then let it go. I hope and pray for you Brian that you can get your wife to see what she is doing and all that she will lose. Right now she is in denial …in a fog. One thing I did that REALLY helped was writing down your thoughts and what you are feeling. Mine were really ugly and I never showed him the ugliness but I did eventually read him some of it and he cried. Try it…it helps release the anger. Take care Brian……you can do it. You are worth it and so are your kids.

      • Brian

        Now she is finding apartments for me to rent… this could get ugly if I stay. It would be tougher on our boys if we get too adversarial. I want to talk to my lawyer before I make any moves. She should be the one moving out…

        • Doug

          You’re right. She should be the one to move out. Absolutely talk to your lawyer first. I imagine there are some tricky laws that could affect you if you were to move out – and none of them in your favor.

    • roller coaster rider

      Brian, I agree that you should not go anywhere. Your boys need to see the strong and loving example of a dad and husband because this will help them so much when they are older. Hopefully they will never be faced with the kinds of choices you are having to make right now. I am so sorry for your pain, and I will be praying for something to open your wife’s eyes to the truth of what she is doing, and what she is doing to her precious family. When I was a teenager, my brother died as a result of a medical mistake and my mother became a terrible alcoholic. My dad was not the greatest as he too was in a lot of pain, but his presence made a lot of difference. Don’t leave.

    • roller coaster rider

      Here’s another book title that might bring some comfort to someone who is going through a lot of pain, as it seems we are all experiencing right now. It’s called A Grace Disguised, how the soul grows through loss. The author is Jerry Sittser, and although his loss is/was different than ours, his writing is extremely helpful (or at least it was to me).

    • Brian

      Broken, RCR, thank you both for the words of encouragement. It’s very easy to get dragged down by all this. I will be strong, for myself and especially for our boys. They are so great… we can’t let them down.

      I am keeping a journal and it does help to organize my thoughts and is a good way to vent my emotions. Thank you both for your thoughts and prayers (I’ve been praying a lot lately). Know that you are in mine as well.

    • Kathy

      Brian,
      I would just like to add my voice to the others and encourage you to not leave.

      On my d-day, I was initially going to leave because I didn’t know right away that his “not wanting to be with me anymore” had to do with another woman. Also, he was being so reasonable and so generous (“you can take anything you want!”) The following day the truth of the EA came out, and I put my foot down and said I would NOT be the one leaving since I was not the one who wanted us to be apart in the first place. If he wanted to be with her, I wasn’t going to make it easy for him! Suddenly all his reasonable-ness and generosity went right out the window.

      It put a huge wrench in their plans, as suddenly they were forced to consider things like finances, living arrangements, etc. All the hearts and flowers were fading fast as reality collided with their fantasy. Although the EA didn’t end when my H said it did, it seems to have ended now (last contact between them to the best of my knowledge was February 28).

      I also keep a journal and I just lay it all out in there! No holds barred! It definitely helps me.

      I hope and pray things will get better for you and your family.

    • Brian

      Kathy,
      More and more , thanks in part to all of those here who have voiced their opinion, I feel that staying is the right thing to do. It may make her more adversarial but by leaving I feel like I’m giving her permission to escalate the EA to a PA. Besides, as you say, I’m not the one who wants us to be apart so why should I leave? And as RCR commented, I need to set an example for my boys.

      My prayers are with you as well. Thanks for your thoughts.

    • Jessica

      Brian,
      Glad to hear that you decided to stay I was wondering what you decided to do. I’m glad you found this site. My greatest comfort at times have been from “friends” on this site.

    • roller coaster rider

      Brian, I am also very encouraged by your decision. I agree with Jessica about the support and comfort to be found among the friends here, and I will continue to lift up the next two weeks in prayer for you.

    • Brian

      Jessica,
      I’m staying for now. Seems like the right thing to do. I’m trying to keep the marriage and family together so why leave, right?

      I’m glad I found this site and people like you, too. Thanks for you concern. It means a lot to me…

    • Brian

      roller coaster rider,
      Thanks for the support and prayers. I will need them. Will keep you posted.

    • S

      Broken,
      Thank you for sharing -I needed to read your words today. I am just about 4months since D day – I thought I was doing better last month – but then the last few weeks I’ve been obsessing, moody, needy, and H doesn’t know why I’m trying to “bring things up again when it was all settled and we’d moved on.” I am fairly confident that the EA is over (was an old flame, who thankfully lives several states away) as I check phone, e-mail, FB, and can see no sign of contact since DDay – actually he blocked her from e-mail as she kept e-mailing and texting (can’t block from text) – although he didn’t reply to her texts – he would show me them and then delete. She hasn’t tried to contact since mid-February) But I hate the person I am now – suspicious, moody, emotional, needy, insecure – and he’s already tiring of dealing with it (even though he did this to me). I think he liked the immediate post DDay me – where I was so attentive and anything he did was fine with me – we spent a lot of time together and were in the “being in love is so great” stage – which was nice- but I still have things to deal with and he’s done. And as you said about talking about it hurting H – I think that’s a lot of it – H has low self esteem and I think talking about it makes him feel worse about himself – and we really need for him to have more self esteem – not less of it – but any advice on how to empty my mind – or insight as to what I can expect now that we’re 4 months out and still moving on? Thanks so much! I’m so glad I found this place!

      • Broken

        Hi S…..gosh you sound just like me. We had that “honeymoon” stage for awhile and I actually felt better then around the same time you are at….then it hit again. The horrible feelings came back and the depression set in. I felt the same way you do…..always searching the phone, emails, his every word, every mood for some indication that he was still cheating on me. Never found it. I actually still look but not as often. I think it speaks alot of your H that he shows you the text messages…he needs to make sure the OW understands what no contact means. I think you have a right to talk about how you feel and what happened…..I had a need to know every detail and he told me every detail. It was also at about 4-5 months that I noticed my H tiring of talking about the affair. I could tell by his facial expressions that he felt like he had talked about it enough. I still needed to talk but I forced myself to bring it up less and less…..we have come to the point where we will make a time to talk about it. I write down everything I need to know and then let it go. Sometimes now we can even joke about it but thats not often. Try to talk about it in a way that isn’t blaming and cruel just a need to know thing. I know exactly how you feel….becoming something you don’t like. Bottom line is…you didn’t do it to yourself…it was done to you. You should be able to take all the time you need to heal…we are all different. I am the type of person that likes to read alot and know all that I can know about what is happening in my life. So….read alot, get some books. “Not Just Friends” is awesome. It’s only been 4 months for you, thats not a long time. It takes time to even reach the point where you can say your marriage is in recovery and after that they say it takes 1-2 years. They can be good years though……I am walking away from this a different person…stronger and wiser. I dont trust my husband…not sure if I ever will again as he lied to me for 18 months and allthough I am still very needy….I am to the point where I am in control of myself again…..you’ll get there. It helped me to get away from my thoughts to stop the searching and do something else. It also helped to write my feelings down. To say in my private thoughts that I hated my H for what he did to me. It’s ok…everything you feel is ok and it’s right and your not crazy (which is how I felt for awhile). Your H owes you the time it takes you to put all of the puzzle pieces together…he needs to be totally accountable to you (sounds like he is). Day by day S thats all you can do…sometimes minute by minute but its going to get better….I promise.

    • roller coaster rider

      Dear S,
      I also have a husband who has low self-esteem in general and is now really suffering as he watches me wade through all these emotions. I don’t know if this would help you, but we changed H’s telephone number and that gave me some peace of mind. What has helped me most in the past 24 hours (aside from just having grace to do one thing at a time, and trying to enjoy the moment) was the thought of “I am going to be fine, with or without him” and I know that is true. It keeps me from losing focus on what I have to do right now, which could be practically anything EXCEPT obsessing about H or the OW.

      • Broken

        Hi Roller coaster…I am so happy that you are telling yourself that you will be fine. Thats a big step and you will be. Changing the number is a great idea as well. Isn’t so hard NOT to think about it?? I remember at first sleeping was the only freedom from the nightmare but it gets better. Take care.

    • Broken

      Big….big….big…. leap of faith today…actually right now, my H is going out after work with his friend (male) to the bar he use to go to with the OW. Yes back to the days he would never call and I would be sitting in our bedroom alone…waiting. I told him he could go…he called …he asked. Calm my freaking out mind and heart. We went out last night for our weekly date night and it was absolutely perfect. I need to learn to trust again but I am feeling some feelings I don’t like right now. Please make it go away. I have to be strong….time to let go. If anyones around…talk to me!!!

    • Kathy

      Broken,
      I can totally understand why you’re feeling the way you are. I don’t know if this helps at all, but you are strong for letting go and taking that leap of faith to trust.

      You will get through this and you will be fine. It may be that showing him this trust will encourage him to continue to be trustworthy.

      Maybe you can find something to do that will occupy your mind while he’s out. Watch a movie you love, or maybe a hobby you enjoy.

      • Broken

        Hi Kathy thanks for the encouragement…actually went swimming. It was a hard night.

    • Jessica

      Wow you are over coming a huge obstical!! keep in touch

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      Just got off plane visiting grandson for the weekend on the flight was thinking about how to face fears I have and then your posting. You have such strength keep going forwards

    • Broken

      Hi Jessica…have a nice weekend. Try to enjoy yourself. You be strong too. H is actually on his way home. He called me quite a few times and answered whenever I called. I did it but I am so glad its over, My heart is racing…I hate this feeling.

      Again…..HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND>

      • Brian

        It sounds like you both are doing the things you need to do, step by step… stay strong.

    • broken

      I guess…he got mad at me this weekend and ignored my phone calls and then lied about ignoring them..he fessed up but I am really sad today

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      Hope you are taking care of yourself, in the past I didn’t pay much attention to ignored phone calls and now today they are a trigger.

    • Eve

      I am sorry u r all going thru this truly am
      I must admit I am the other woman only emotionally but this is bad enuff in itself
      I live for his texts n chats n his wife has no inkling of this or my husband although I am over emotional all the time
      I know this is truly futile as a relationship and I don’t want to hurt anyone but I cannot help this
      I truly feel in love
      if someone had told me I wud ever do this I wud laugh at them
      however I have
      I don’t feel love I did for my husband anymore although he is a great n good man
      still I cannot help myself
      do not think it is any less emotional for the person who cheats
      I feel a total creep but nothing can fill this void of emptiness
      thanks for listening
      if any of you would like to comment please do
      I don’t feel proud of any of this

    • Roller coaster rider

      Eve, try to fast forward and see where you’ll be if you don’t do the right thing now. You may not be able to help how you feel but you can still DO what is right. Taking what really belongs to someone else is never right, and if your husband is great and good, then tell him the truth and end this today. The love you used to feel for him can definitely be restored, and it really is a lie that nothing can fill the void of emptiness. Do the truly loving thing, especially for the sake of how you feel about yourself. There are many avenues for finding help. If you don’t take action now, it most likely will not get easier. Your husband deserves the chance to show and tell you how much you matter to him. Your feelings are a slippery slope.

    • PTY

      Eve, the fact you are here is a good sign. Take advantage of the resources on this site and many others. I wish you the best.

    • jessica

      Eve,
      What you feel isn’t love, it is an obsession with someone who isn’t available to give you the love and life you deserve. Your H deserves the truth so he can make his own decision if he wants to stay and make the marriage work or leave, he doesn’t deserve the lies, these are the hardest to forgive and to recover from.

    • broken

      Eve….I don’t have much sympathy for anyone who cheats on their spouse and yes you can help what you do. You are an adult,I assume, and as an adult you can control everything you do. Right now you are selfish and blind to the incredible pain you will soon cause your husband and children, if you have them. Your husband derserves the right to make a choice to fight for his marriage or leave you and so does the wife of the man you are messing around with. You are a liar and a cheater…shame on you. I feel so bad for your husband….the pain you have caused him is horrible.

    • suziesuffers

      Eve…..the pain we do through because our spouses have cheated on us is incredible. We have created lives with our spouses, and as everyone has mentioned the “life” you’ve created is based upon a fantasy even though it feels real. I know you think this is the “real” thing….and as my husband said to me about the OW….I had never felt that way before…well, I might say the same thing in a drug induced trance, but it’s not permanent and it only ends up creating lots of problems for lots of people. You didn’t mention any children, but it will harm them. And everyone says that someone that has chosen to find their “soulmate” by stealing another’s spouse will not only lose respect for themselves, but always be suspicious that this person could “fall in love” with someone else down the road when things get tough. I know this is all going in one ear and out the other because you “feel in love”….like you’ve never felt before. I suggest finding a therapist and talking to a neutral party that might be able to help you. If you don’t have insurance there are counselor’s that work on a sliding scale. Talk to someone. I don’t know that anyone can “convince” you to leave this affair and work on your marriage…as Linda said, Doug had to find that way on his own and but it didn’t hurt that she gave him a bit of a nudge. Find help….deceit and pain are written all over your life and I hope you find in your heart the courage to do the right thing.

    • Empty and Numb

      This is “Marie” … now under “Empty and Numb”. This web site has been a blessing. I had more healing to do. I adore Linda. I applaud Doug for waking up. I am currently finishing a book based on affairs and will be including (with her permission, hopefully) this web site and quotes from Linda.

      What I don’t agree with is this “Fog” BS and most of the “Affair Experts”. They don’t even touch the real issue. A longterm cheater has always been a fraud.

      Here is why … I have researched affairs for almost 17 years … to include posing as a cheater on cheating web sites.

      I wanted the “Happily Ever After”, too. I couldn’t do it. After a 1.5 years in therapy … my narcissist wasn’t changing fast enough … and I was in the end stages of codependency while finishing my residency.

      I needed an equitable relationship, restitution … and that was something he was unable to do for his family. I couldn’t put my kids through it.

      Long term cheaters are passive, passive aggressive … All vary into Narcissism. Long term cheaters are under achievers, lazy and have always been frauds. Those of us that went into marriages with Long Term cheaters suffer from codependent/depressive/dependent traits. We are the perfect mix for one another.

      The cheating/victim marriage was dysfunctional from the very beginning … progressed as responsibilities starting rolling in. Victims were the “Directors” and cheaters watched their victim spouses lose their minds.

      There was nothing missing in the marriage to make a cheater cheat … except that they were no longer gaining the “narcissistic supply” they needed to gain from their victim spouse because they had drained them of everything. It is this covert and this sadistic. Bored with their drained spouse … they tra-la-la off to find more “Narcissistic Supply” … rather than turning toward the marriage to voice their concerns … become accountable and responsible. These types can’t be wrong … they are always right. And, the power struggle ensues.

      That would be too hard to admit fault or change … meet someone half way for a long term cheater. Yes, the long term cheaters are that stupid to think “The grass is greener on the other side” … and they really do fall in love with the other person … just as they fell in love with you. It is the “Love Drunk” stage. Is it real? No! But they don’t care.

      Yet, we … as victims have always known this about our long term cheaters and did what ever we could to change them.

      These character or personality disorders are almost impossible to change. And if they can change … They can only be modified. And, that goes for cheater and victim. I am a recovering codependent … I am also an MD … it goes with the territory. So, keep that in mind.

      Also keep in mind the traits within these disorders vary. Not all match but we all match many. Also, in my research … healthy adults leave immediately when an affair of any kind occurs. Why? No healthy adult will stand to re-parent a cheating spouse. That is too unhealthy for all involved … to a healthy person. They have more pride in themselves to stand for such a mortal attack on something so sacred

      Spouses who immediately leave when they find out they’ve been cheated on long term are not bound by any religiousity of any kind … but are deeply rooted in ethics and spirituality.

      A long term affair to healthy people … is a mortal wound to a marriage that never was one to begin with.

      This is what I have found … unless it is the short term “fling” type … I have described. Any one of us can fall into a fling … a temporary loss of control. If we have done so … than it is owned right away by the cheater. The healthy couple get into counseling and this can be repaired … easily.

      The long term cheater and victim can heal too. But both must heal. And this is what marriage counselors are not treating. This is what Affair books do not tell you. And, I especially despise the affair books that place any of the blame on the victim … even if indirectly.

      What needs to be treated is the cheater and his/her personality disorder and the victim with his/her personality disorder.

      Again, there is no fog!!! This was a dance carefully chosen by both cheater and victim. The only fog was that the abuser/cheater was always the abuser … the victim … always the victim. Sadly, the victim didn’t realize it but the abuser knew exactly the “Mindf&*ck” they were putting on the victim … and didn’t care one bit! In long term cheating marriages … the marriage was doomed and dysfunctional from the very jump.

      I have been remarried for 17 years to an amazing MD, as well … I have a wonderful life and when I healed from codependency … became completely independent … I opened my life up to real love. Yet, I will always be at risk for codependency. So, I am very careful to make sure things are equitable for me … that my relationships are reciprocal … and I associate with deeply connected and spiritual human beings … not scripted ones. We all face crises … it is how we handle it that counts.

      As for my passive aggressive narcissistic ex … Adult children want nothing to do with their father and he has never had a solid relationship. Due to getting my children out … keeping them in therapy and not hiding a thing from them … my children recovered and didn’t repeat. I helped (when they were minors) them to maintain a healthy relationship with my ex … was never mean to my ex and lived by the example that, “I am so more worthy than your abuse and I feel sorry for you” … always found the strength to place kids first … explain facts … and never degrade their father.

      My children have grown into successful professionals … 3 MD’s and one CEO. I taught them that marriage is a business and requires and “ever changing” business plan … down to include sex, who will take out the garbage, take care of this and that. My children went through 2 years of premarital counseling (still have one on retainer to check in when needed) and filled out “post-nups” … so if the marriage ends in divorce everyone is on the same page. We are all deeply spiritual and base our lives in that. So far … their marriages totally rock and I adore my in-laws. This is what smart people will do in the future and many are already doing. Those that are rewriting your marriages should do that right now!

      My kids have it in order and that I take partial credit for. I didn’t keep them in abuse and I made sure that they knew everything and therapy was a priority … as well as spirituality.

      Codependency is deadly … Can lead to autoimmune disorders? PTSD, major depressive disorder, stroke, heart attack, cancer. Please get the help you need.

      There is a minimal chance that the narcissist and codependent can heal together … without a proper therapist that knows what they are treating … and of course the willing Narcissist changing.

      If the cheater/narcissist suffers a “Narcissistic Wound” (this is a small window where they are disgusted with themselves and suddenly wake up to real ethics) within that they can actually feel the pain they’ve caused others and want a different life.

      The codependent/victim takes care of themselves and refuses anymore BS … the narcissist can make complete restitution and become more than half of the marriage for at least 2-6 years while the exhausted codependent heals … you have yourself a marriage. Thus, you graduate to the 10% of married couples that have an amazing marriage!

      I agree … leaving or staying is a personal choice. I do not agree staying where there is abuse … is good for the children. Those that don’t have their kids in therapy and are suffering and affair of any kind … are setting their kids up for failure. Depending on age … a kid 11 and over must be told the full truth. Nothing swept under the carpet.

      I disagree that problems (depending on the child’s age) should be kept from children. If you and your spouse are living in an affair … children need to be in counseling. They hear and feel the stress … this will stay with them and prevent them from a healthy adulthood.

      And I don’t judge those of you that wish to be abused by your cheating spouses and endure that kind of suffering.

      Also, finding the right therapist … is very hard. So many head shrinks are NUTS themselves. LOL!

      Yes there are support groups out there for codependents. If there are not … Alinon is a great place to start. They deal with codependency. It is a deadly disease.

      Again … I know I’ve repeated so much … but I want you all to wake up. And maybe this can help the long term cheaters? I also want the victims to know … they are worth better than that!

      Many of my links and other posts are on here … under “Empty and Numb”. I hope this helps because I truly feel all of your pain … even the pain of those that are cheating. My pain … it still can sometimes feel as if I am right there in my marriage with my ex. Thank you Doug and Linda!!!

    • Broken

      Marie…I found your comments offensive back where you advised Linda that everyone should leave when they have been cheated upon. (Quite a few posts ago) I don’t care how much of an “expert” you are that advise does not apply to everyone and truthfully I resent you saying it and the implication that those of us who stay are somehow codependant. This is suppose to be a website (at least I thought it was) for the average person to support one another not a place to plug your book. Could be I am all wrong. So happy your kids are all MDS and CEOs….good for you. Guess what my kids are all successful as well and I chose to NOT tell them about their father. I chose to spare them that pain because THEY deserve not to feel it. I think you make some pretty blanket statements that don’t apply to everyone. I am so glad you don’t judge us victims who want to be cheated upon…I am sure that is what all of us wished for. Really??? Good people make mistakes. Good people deserve second chances. Good people deserve to be forgiven. Truely I am glad I don’t live in your world where everything is black and white.

      I will agree with you on one thing (if that really matters) the fog thing is a bunch of BS…..a great big excuse. So is the I can’t help myself BS and I didn’t realize what I was doing BS as well.

    • Empty and Numb

      Broken … again … these are all my opinions that I’ve developed on my own and through much research. What is right for you … is right for you. It is not right for me. And, I judge for myself … I couldn’t do it.

      If you think for one minute your kids don’t know … think again. Unless, they don’t live in the same state or under your roof.

      How ever you wish to deal with what you have … you have every right. Please stop transferring judgments I make for myself … as directed toward you or any one else.

      When I speak … I speak as if I was the one in the same position. I have said constantly … that everyone has to chose for themselves.

      I am so sorry you are hurting. It is not fair. I wish you the best. I’ve only had good intentions … never to hurt … just to express myself as you have. And, I think that is what this site is for. I am not sure I found any rules to direct otherwise. If you know where these rules may be on this site … please direct me.

      Also … a lot gets lost in translation within writing. I wish only the best for everyone … and to let people know what I’ve discovered.

      I have no wish or need or want to direct anyone’s life but to make them aware that there is a lot out there that may resonate with people … that they are not seeing.

      When a long term affair occurs … one has to dive into the entire marriage. The average is what I’ve found and that is long term cheater carries passive, passive aggressive traits with narcissism mixed in. Victim … carries codependent/depressive/dependent traits.

      When in counseling … this is what needs to be treated to make the marriage whole. Again … we are talking averages and norms … not special cases. There are always exceptions to any rule.

      I do wish you well and please know … I empathize with your pain. I’ve been there! XO

    • Broken

      Marie…..fair enough. …and no my kids don’t live with me (they are adults) and will NEVER know what happened. It is my personnal opinion that our kids don’t need to know every detail of our marriage. Life is way to hard without adding the pain of what my H did to their lives. It is my opinion that my H hurt me not them and I choose (independant thinking) to not harm the relationship he has with them or damage what they think of their father in any way. He offered to tell them…I said no. I don’t feel the need to round them all up and say look what dad did….doesn’t work for me. I don’t agree with the whole family, friends, work, etc being told about an affair. I know some “experts” make their living by pushing that concept. Like I said before people make mistakes and when they are doing everything humanly possible to correct their mistakes then raking them across the coals doesn’t seem right to me. Do I and did I hurt….hell yes and I feel for every person who has been cheated on but I think every person is different and every situation is different….there is no black and white. You did say that everyone should leave when there has been an affair unless there is a financial situation and that is wrong. I would have to agree with you in a serial cheating situation…thats it. I am in no way codependant, dependant or whatever you want to call it on anyone. I make my own choices. People need to make a choice about what is right for them. Staying, leaving, forgiving, not forgiving, therapy, telling, not telling….all choices we all have to make.

    • suziesuffers

      Marie, I agree with many of the things you state here….I think it’s more the “tone” of your blog that might be alittle “overbearing”…..but as a victim we’ve all been the codependent director…directing how we think others to should their lives….because after all, we know how we live our lives and we believe everyone should mirror that. I’m not attacking you, I state this about me….I know that has been my contribution to my marriage….although which was first the chicken or the egg. Was I codependent director and choose my husband, or was it the dysfunctional marriage to an alcoholic that created a codependent director….at some point, it really doesn’t matter, because here I am in my FULL glory!! I believe there is a certain “obsessive” fog. Have you ever seen someone on drugs? I have. They will go to any means regardless of their own safety or anyone elses to obtain the drug….well, I think affairs are alittle the same. Someone takes alittle drug because their distressed, next thing they know they are in full blown addiction….something like the CS…just chatting and getting to know someone, and one thing leads to another and the next thing they know their in an affair. I’m not sure a full blown addict sees their addiction, UNTIL their are enough consequences to SHAKE them into reality. Could it be the same with the affair? OH……I’m not giving my husband an excuse by any means. Just like the drug addict, no one forced you to take the first hit…..My husband KNEW when he was starting to get into dangerous territory, but choose to go anyway. Did he know right from wrong? Well, I think when it they chatted maybe no….but then there’s the next step…dinner, lunch…that’s when that little voice in his head said, I’m now doing something that feels good, but I don’t think is quite right. After all, my husband knew better than to rob a bank when he was having financial problems. But you don’t go to jail for affairs. It starts out like stealing pens from the office….no big deal, you deserve them, you work hard. Next thing you know you are taking more and more supplies and still justifying it because you somehow deserve it.

      Broken, I also agree with you that just leaving isn’t always right. I think sometimes it is more motiviated in fear than in love, because we have invested alot into this marriage. Our spouse already has a replacement so they KNOW they are “loved”…..we don’t, so we feel abandoned and if we can only get them back we will “FEEL” loved too…..we are afraid we will never find another to love us. That’s our self esteem talking to us. So is it fear or love that we stay?? I sometimes don’t know. For now, I have 34 years invested, and I feel like MAYBE it can be saved. It worries me that it will never be forgotten. I know why CS move on too….facing their guilt everyday….out of sight out of mind. Leaving the spouse they cheated on gives them a clean slate…even if they don’t stay with the OP, anyone else would really never know or bring up the pain they created in the affair…….so they kind of walk, unfortunately we are continually blanketed not only with the pain of the affair, but now abandonment and self esteem issues that take years to repair…..but I bet the CS that moves on….does that…just moves on. Now, he might never heal, and like Marie said, just wander out there never really finding love, because all they want is to be “in love”….and all those fade eventually. So, how to we move forward…no matter whether we stay or whether we do…the first step is to heal ourselves. We are the victims, and just like PTSD, we will have to heal through this trauma to get our lives back. Prayers for us all to heal and find our strength to enjoy like and live in joy and happiness.

    • roller coaster rider

      This dialogue has given me lots of food for thought today, and also I feel pretty anxious just focusing on this again, sometimes just want to go to sleep and stay that way. I really thought my co-dependence was better and want to believe that H is sincere but even he himself will say he doubts his own sincerity. But for the grace of God…

    • Jessica

      I just received and started reading “not just friends” a really good book I may be up all night reading it”

    • laurel

      This is sure not too fun, is it? Brian, I am so sorry your wife is pressuring you to leave, and I agree with Doug: don’t do it without legal counsel. I want to speak to some of the posts yesterday from Marie, Broken and Kathy (I think>>>for some reason, I’m not seeing all the posts right now). The whole idea of being codependent really bothers me. I know it is normal to feel extremely insecure when your life-long partner goes off the deep end and starts doing things that completely challenge everything you thought you had worked so hard to achieve together. The one thing right now I know I’m learning is that I have the ability to talk to my H in a way I’ve never been able to before, but that’s because he wants to change. To accept anything less would not work for me. Maybe Marie is right and we would never have gotten here if I had just walked away many, many years ago (well, obviously, we wouldn’t be here because we’d be apart) but I also think that it isn’t codependent to stay if there are strong signs of having ‘hit bottom’ and waking out of the stupor of lies and wanting to be a truthful, giving, caring, emotionally vulnerable spouse. Marie, you said something about a piercing of the narcissim; that kind of rings true, but don’t you also think that at some level, we are all narcissistic? Even the extremely codependent person does things and operates out of a mindset that she/he will get personal needs met that way.

      • Broken

        Laurel I absolutely agree with you…my H and I would not have the relationship we have right now (albeit difficult at times because of the A). We communicate differently. I don’t know what it took to get here and I really don’t care…it just is.

        Brian I hope you stay. You didn’t do anything wrong and just because you are a man…that doesn’t mean you have to automatically leave. Your wife wants to make it easy on herself to continue what she is doing to you. It takes alot of nerve to cheat on someone and then go out and try and find them another place to live…..wow. I thought this was the week for your joint counseling sessions to begin? How is that going?

        • Brian

          We have our first session on Monday…

    • laurel

      Brian, I just saw where you wrote on April 27th that your lawyer told you not to leave. Don’t do it. Your sons need to see and hear you saying that you are fighting for them and for their mom. They may need to know what is going on, but again, I’m praying for you to have wisdom and for your wife to wake up.

    • Jessica

      Brian,

      Your boys need you, it will also be very hard for them if you move out, you are the stability they need to help them through this. Follow your instincts, and your lawyers advice.

      • Brian

        She just texted me “The more we are together, the less I can stand you… I’m sorry I feel that way”.

        I know it’s the fog talking but it still hurts… guess we are done.

    • Empty and Numb

      Laurel … I don’t know where all the posts went. There were others that had a bunch of questions for me. I would suspect … Doug and Linda are having web site trouble. It happens.

      Walking away is your decision. Having a quality life with someone who is reliable, ethical starts with you … or the victim. We teach people how to treat us.

      Codependents don’t love themselves.

      Within a “Narcissistic Wound” (google that … as well as passive, passive aggressive and narcissisim ) is the only time a narcissist can wake up. There is only a small window for the narcissist to see himself for the wretch he/she is. And if they can do that … rush to therapy and work hard to stay to learn real ethics and universal love … there they can heal.

      We all carry narcissism. Most of us have healthy narcissism.

      Codependency is deadly. It is a deadly disease. Women especially are prone to this. One, we are raised with the scripted belief to “be all” and be the “super women”.

      Then, in a marriage with a narcissist … we usually have kids.
      So, we go into super codependency trying to save the marriage.

      If kids are under the roof of a cheater … they must be in therapy and nothing can be swept under the carpet. Why? They hear all the fights. In so hearing the fights … this takes away their security and safety which can lead to suicide.
      Kids feel all the stress and they must have a therapist to help guide them. I don’t care if you are only fighting in your bedroom … they hear it all and must know the truth.

      If they are adults and out of the home … there is no reason to tell them a thing. No one else needs to know either … unless the couple chooses to do so.

      Lots of help out there. Whether people stay or not is certainly up to them. Again … narcissists will suck you dry and there will be an incredible imbalance that may never balance.

      If the cheater/narcissist can really heal … than they have to atone … make incredible restitution for a marriage they failed to attend to … a marriage where they fully took advantage of their spouses and they must now allow the codependent time to heal.

      Narcissists/cheaters must become responsible adults … over responsible adults, be over supportive and reassuring … and take on being the “single parent” in the marriage for at least 2-6 years while the codependent heals.

      They need to yield to the need of the victim on almost every level.

      Fling cheating can happen to any one of us … can be easily repaired.

      Long term cheating … that is not an accident. Long term cheaters … not only cheated with another person … but cheated all through their marriage by under performing on every level, covert power struggles and an inability to pull their weight and communicate their needs.

      “Fog” … yes! Both cheater and victim are in a fog. The “fog” I speak of is cheater … abusive. Victim … takes abuse … doesn’t recognize it because cheaters mindf*&ck their victims through covert abuse and lying.

      Therapists and Affair authors are not touching on personality disorders … nor are they breaking down the entire marriage to realize just what the “cheater” brought to the table … and the victim just rolled over to take … willingly and enabling.

      If one has a good marriage counselor … they break the marriage down to the inequities within the marriage and that it was dysfunctional an imbalanced always.

      Good therapists help rebuild (through exercises and organizational material to help create a household bible) the dysfunctional marriage.

      Long term chearters … again … they are covert abusers that got progressively worse when more and more (victims constantly wipe the cheaters ass, pick up for where “they forgot” to take care of things they said they would and the list goes on) responsibilities came along within the family and what was needed to keep the fire between spouses and raise the children.

      Long term cheaters expected the victim/codependent/directors to do it all. And, the victims did. No one can live up to that and they eventually burn out. So, the long term cheater has no more narcissistic supply from victim spouse cause he/she has destroyed them … and heads out to seek from another victim.

      Affairs DO NOT JUST HAPPEN! They are searched out, planned out, obsessed about. Why? Long term cheaters blame all their failure on the victim spouse and feel justified.

      The long term cheater searches for a long, long time. The long term cheater has played with fire on many occasions before an affair really takes place. Long term cheaters attract Long term cheaters. Again … I am talking about norms … not exceptions.

      The long term cheater has selective ethics (always has) and plays by his/her own rules and always has. They’ve always been right … the victim always wrong but they keep that to themselves.

      Cheaters start tapping until someone turns around. They tease and joke with people of the opposite sex looking for an open window … cause it feels good.

      They send out mating signals usually with any coworker or work associate they can find. Again, my opinion and 17 years of research.

      When victims wake up to the reality … they try to search for answers and do all the work because that is what they’ve always done.

      Cheaters behave the same way … because this is what they’ve always done … they’ve always abused. Again … this is just my opinion.

      I have interviewed over 100 healthy victims that suffered the wake up of their spouse having a long term affair. There was no question within their mind. Divorce was the only option.

      I have tracked the healthy victims. They went on to have very healthy lives and never looked back. Most found new mates that were within their ethics or microcosim. We all hum with those we are like.

      Most healthy victims married young and had enough of the over all marital abuse, pathological lying, laziness and under achieving of their spouses. This includes men and women.

      Most healthy victims married young and “Love Drunk” … and believed in the “Happily Ever After”. All was well until responsibilities started rolling in. Then it becomes a systematic break down. When life stresses move in, when responsibility moves in … this is where character is tested.

      The healthy victims were never going to buy into, “Good People Make Mistakes” because cheating is ridiculous and there are no mistakes within cheating. Cheating is deliberate … as is lying in any form.

      Healthy victims decided they have no time to reparent and stand for any more abuse or push their flawed spouse. How can you rebuild trust after that … was their overriding theme.

      Again, just my research and opinion. Again, everyone has to chose.

      Tone within any written form gets lost. I am sorry if I have come off brash. No intention there. I am also an MD … so Direct and Assertive has always been my nature.

      Healthy victims that did stay to repair … are those that found their spouses had a “fling”. Flings are always admitted by cheater and both get into counseling right away.

      Long term cheaters are looking for a new life, new love and new spouse. It is that simple. They’ve always been that way. This type of behavior … long term cheating … just doesn’t happen. It has always been there.

      It takes a special person to dance with a narcissist and that is a codependent.

      In my research … I have found healthy victims automatically leave a long term spouse because they wake up to realize that they never had an equitable marriage and were always abused. Cheating is no accident … there is no drug effect … it is a conscious thought … a deliberate thought … and one where they could care less who they hurt.

      I truly feel all your pain. I really do. And, I am sorry if I sound brash. I am also speaking on the norms. There are exceptions to every rule. And, everyone has the right to chose. XO

      • laurel

        I will write more later but I found the earlier posts on page numbers at the bottom of this page. Thanks for your reply.

    • Empty and Numb!

      Brian …. Good for you on your first therapy session!!! With my ex … It was therapy or divorce … Immediately. 1.5 yrs later ( marital therapy repair for an affair in counseling which is the best … Takes 2-4 yrs) with our therapists blessing … He told us … I’m always going to be abused and I should end it!

      Please make sure you get a good therapist that specializes in Narcissim and codependency. Ask around! Therapist are human and some can cause so much more damage.

      You’ll be looking for a kind that not only specializes but one that extracts information from the pair of you not implants information. Sending you lots of love!

    • laurel

      Brian, what your wife texted you sounds similar to things my husband used to say and do to try to ‘bait and switch’ – what I mean is, try to push your buttons so you won’t focus on what is really going on and what SHE is actually doing. Don’t buy it. Yes, it’s intended to hurt but if you just ‘set your face like flint’ and do what you need to do, get your needs met in other ways, like what is going to benefit you right now and your sons…I’m so very sorry. I know how this feels.

    • Empty and Numb

      A wiser person once told me …. Don’t listen to the words of another …. Listen to the behavior. In the behavior is where the depth of the truth in one’s character is and always will be! 😉

    • Brian

      Thanks Laurel, trying to hang in there. Dont know this woman anymore. Can’t see any way to reconcile at this point…

      • laurel

        Maybe she will blow it all up. Just don’t let her be the one to call the shots on where you live, and don’t let her be the one to define what’s true.

    • laurel

      Marie, what’s your definition of ‘long term cheater?’ Oh, and don’t take this personally but being an MD I would think might make one prone to thinking very highly of one’s own opinion which is also a potential trap. I appreciate that you qualified your statements somewhat both yesterday and today, and acknowledged the (albeit minute) possibility of exception to the rule. You also made reference in yesterday’s post to spirituality. I think there are many opportunities for growth, change, revelation, and this is no exception. I also believe that we occasionally have opportunities to see a miracle, which has no scientific explanation whatsoever. And it’s true, we all must decide for ourselves what to believe, and what to do. I know I need wisdom, and I also do not want to live apart from grace. I need grace most of all, and I will not choose to withhold it either.

    • Jessica

      Laurel,
      I agree with your comments to Marie.

      Brian,

      There is a posting Linda had on stupid things Doug said while in the E A. good reading.

    • Empty and Numb

      Long term is more than once. I don’t take offense at the indirect attacks.  It must relieve some stress.

      I know the victims are hurting and scared.  Something that I am saying is striking a massive chord with people and it appears you need someone to be angry with and that is ok.

      Again … I feel so bad because I know where you are.  You are desperate to hold on … To have someone assure you that your spouse is a “good person who made a mistake” and has gone temporarily insane.  

      You don’t want to believe that your spouse was always this way? I don’t know? I can tell you that the average long term cheater is a narcissist and the victim a codependent.

      If the victims can’t see they are codependent … And your health is in danger … then I don’t know what to yell you?

      The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. 

      I do not judge and can not tell you or anyone what to do.  So, please stip transferring your pain onto me.  I hurt, too.

      I just see so many victims living in pure hell and expecting change.  the cheating spouses could care less.  That is clear.

      These kinds of cheaters were always that way …. they always came first.

      Again, I don’t take offense at your indirect covert lashing.  I just feel bad for your pain. I still feel the pain and I exercise my techniques to get rid of it.

      I am amazed what you are all putting up with?  The abuse is horrific and for those that are continuing with the abuse without therapy and children under the roof … Both you and your children’s health are in grave danger.

      When I woke up to the abuse with my ex (both fogs lifted … Mine and his or victim/abuser) It is wild and unimaginable.  I shouted “therapy or divorce”!  

      I appreciate or empathize with those that can’t shout “therapy or divorce” but if you have children … Under your roof … you can’t afford to do this to your children … Keep them in abuse without a professional to speak with.

      And … yes … I am MD and after 17 years of research … I do know what I’m talking about.

      I am real sorry for exposing fears and hurting.  Never my intention.  I feel your pain.  I can tell most of the suffering victims are brilliant and beautiful.  You did not deserve this.  I  so sorry for your pain. Please get the help you need. 

    • suziesuffers

      Marie, I agree with some of the syndromes you’ve identified. I think many of us are codependents and we struggle with that. I worry too that your pain after 17 years is still seen here because of the anger you have that is triggered through these discussions. So I wonder what steps have you taken to heal? You’ve been in a “wonderful” marriage now for a number of years and I would have thought that might have eased many of the issues we have…..fear of being unloved, self esteem etc. You obviously have those covered with this wonderful husband you have. So are you still triggered by the pain? What actions are you taking to heal that pain. I’m 2 years from D day….and he has been a multiple cheater both flings and EA’s and the last one PA. Do I see it as a “progressive” disease? Yes, I do now….I didn’t know about his cheating until the disclosure of the PA. Was I suspicious? Always. His alcoholism was progressive too….until he found AA and has been sober 4 years. So am I confused many times about whether I want to continue in a marriage that is so severely damaged…..I ask myself that many times, and to tell you the truth, I’m in auto mode right now. I’m trying to explore how I feel about him too. Have I stayed because the pain of the loss is more than the pain of staying? I don’t know. And alot of that is because I don’t know me anymore. I don’t trust me anymore. I know I don’t trust him, but it’s scarier that I don’t trust me anymore. So on this journey of healing, regardless of whether we make it or not, I’m really looking at ME. Who I am and what I want….and maybe I wouldn’t have done this is if he had never cheated. All I can do, is what I can do today for me.

    • suziesuffers

      I think he became sober from alcohol, but internally missed the “high” and didn’t identify those feelings. As you said, the “chit chat”…putting it out there to see if they could “catch’ someone’s eye…attention, is a real ego booster. I think that gave him a high that replaced the drug/alcohol high…because alot of his actions were when he was sober….not mature in his sobriety, but not drinking. I think we would all like to “feel” loved, have someone pay attention to us…treat us as if no one else was around, give us ego strokes…..but we know it’s a cheap trick that ends when reality kicks in…..but some get “hooked” by the feeling and are reeled in…..not that they haven’t been putting the hook out there….but then they can act surprised when they are suddently “hooked” by these feelings….

      Brian….you stick with it. The words are the most painful at times. And unfortunately they stick with you for a long time…..except, NONE of the words spewed from her mouth are the truth. NONE of this is about you….it’s about how empty she is….nothing you created, something she never filled and she’s desperately clinging onto something she thinks fills that void….so throwing out all this stuff is just her diversion. She thinks that if she can hurt you right now, you will run and then she’s off the hook for taking accountability for this mess. You did NOT cause this mess..her character defects did. Stay strong, we are there for you!!!

      • Brian

        We had a long talk last night: She still says that she is just friends with the OP, mostly just texting, meets with him once every few weeks or so. Says he’s “fun to hang out with” nothing physical. She says she has no intentions of being in a relationship with him or anyone else right now.

        As far as us, she still does not feel “in love” with me the way she used to. She feels like our relationship is “suffocating ” her and she needs to be away from me for a while. She does not want a divorce right now but she thinks a separation would do us good. She wants to continue couples counseling during the separation. She says she has no intentions of being in a relationship with anyone right now. She assured me she would never accuse me of adandoning her and the boys but I wonder if the court would see it that way regardless.

        I don’t know what to do. I know she will not leave and if I stay the hard feelings will intensify… not good for us or the boys.

        • staystrong72

          Brian. Listen to me very CAREFULLY! You have done nothing wrong. You stay put in that house with those boys. This is not your doing. Tell her to leave if she feels suffocated. The reason she is stating that she will never accuse you of abandoning your kids if you leave, is because she has already sought out advice from a lawyer. That statement came directly from mine. My lawyer told me to stay put. Dont’t leave. The moment you leave she will use that against you. You cannot trust a thing your CS is telling you. Follow your gut. You need to become a ninja with your thoughts and actions. Tell yourself, “I am not the one confused, I know what I want.” This will be the hardest thing to do. You cannot let what she says bother you. Just tell her you are not interested and walk away. You need to become that strong, confident individual. Make her realize what she is going to lose. Make yourself and your boys the priority. Don’t talk to her and get wrapped up in her drama. You will drive yourself nuts. She is going to push your buttons.

    • Empty and Numb!

      Suz …. The healing process is never over!  D-days always come up.  For me … They only last for moments. Yet, those moments are painful.

      I liken this type of abuse (which we codependents welcome and enable) to being repeatedly raped.

      My marriage is wonderful. Kids are grown and living the dream with all the healthy marital conflicts but those are faced as a team. My daughters are financially fit and have an exit plan … if something goes wrong.

      Personality disorders don’t manifest until mid to late 30’s.

      As much as I was not raised religious scripted …. I wanted that “happily ever after”! That was media driven.  I didn’t allow my daughters Disney and I taught my son how to play with dolls.

      However, “we” as codependents are just as addicted.  We are addicts to the abuse and notion we can control and change people.

      For instance …. It takes me out for weeks if I lose someone on the operating table.  

      There is a joke … Mother T … The biggest codependent (one of my heroines) … said on her dying bed, “I didn’t save enough”! Lol!

      I’ve clung to Buddhism to understand much of what I went through.  I believe the pain I still attach to … has to do with my research and soon to be published book.

      My current husband has coauthored with me my book.  He is a leading psychiatrist in this area.  

      What helps … Yoga, breath work …. Other forms of spirituality.  I’m Reform Jewish which the practice is really Buddhism. 

      It was so hard going through this because narcissists are really that cruel.  We allow them to make us into “Charlie Brown” and they are “Lucy” pulling the football away. We internalize their transference … to include “we are not worthy”!

      I had four small babies and was in residency.  My mother … worn out from being a single mother.  The rest of my family … Religious scripted.  I was judged and disowned and alone.

      The pain doesn’t go away, ever. I do count my blessings but I truly was in my end stages of codependency.  I was dying and somehow … I got out.

      It has been my healing to research why codependents chose so poorly and have the need to fix broken people.  It is because we feel we are not worthy and make ourselves emotionally dependent, financially dependent on abusers.

      This site has been so helpful.  If you need recommendations of books and or techniques that helped me get through … Let me know.

      And thank you for your kindness. It means a lot.

    • Empty and Numb!

      Brian …. You must get a lawyer and she must leave.  Do not give up your boys.  Please do not give up your boys. The courts will see it as abandonment.  She needs to leave and you need to get your boys into counseling, depending on how old they are.  She is tricking you!

    • Jessica

      Empty and Numb,

      Your postings actually appear to be very narcissist in nature you seem to turn most postings into a conversation about yourself.

      • broken

        Thinkin the same thing. If anyone disagrees with her it is because we are.in so much pain….I am reading all cheaters ar narcisstic and all of us who are cheated upn are codependent even though we didn’t know it was happening……but if we absoluyely make the choice to leave we are healthy because that is the same choice she made. I looked up narcisstic wound….supossedly the only small window your cheating spouse has to heal oneself…..what a bunch of psycho babble BS.Marie I mean no disrespect but of all of us here you seem the most angry and bitter. Sorry for your pain XO. I don’t feel the need to tell everyone my profession like you do ad nauseum but what I will say is a sampling of only 100 subjects does not even come close to giving you enough info for a conclusion

    • melissa

      Touche! This is so funny in the midst of the angst and unhappiness a lot of us are feeling. Thanks for making me smile, Jessica.

    • Empty and Numb

      The truly bizarre notion that I need you to agree with me is saddening.  Could care less if you do. The attacks are freakish but I understand the human condition.  

      It is like when I scold my cat … She immediately beats up my other cat.  
      So, you feel slighted … which is weird because I’ve repeatedly said … I’m not telling anyone what to do or needed anyone’s approval. 

       The need to hurt because you feel I am hurting you is also so beyond any comprehension. Again, human nature … “lord of the flies” mentality! And, nothing short of bullying.

      Yet, that is what truly BROKEN people do. 

      Yet, I’m wondering who really is behind the posts? Lol! Could it be a cheater? Lol! 

       I understand you like your misery and I did too!  I wish you luck with that. It seems that some just don’t want to face reality and like being abused.

      What you do with your lives is up to you.  My intention was to help.  Sadly, one can’t help a sadomasochistic person.

      Stay well in your fogs of self induced abuse.  That is your right and I am not trying to persuade anyone differently. Never have been! 

      Someone asked what my credentials were … and I’ve told them. I’ve tried to share my story but some want to remain “cry babies” rather than heal!

      Maybe one deserves what they get?  After all … We do get what we give and teach people how to treat us!  I’m glad it is working for you!

      Hey, I know loved my misery and self destruction until I woke up! And, I was fully responsible for my enabling.

      To attack when I’ve said repeatedly that I could care less what any of you do … is awful.  To attack when I’ve already said that this still hurts is just mean.

      But at least it makes you feel better and that is good but short term.

      Good luck to all and enjoy your abuse. You must like it a lot.  Lol!

    • Jessica

      I will agree with your definition of insanity:

      Your posting and reposting of the same information and expecting different results is INSANITY.

      You are the one harshly judging others on this site.

    • Roller coaster rider

      Just wondering if Doug and Linda would like to weigh in on all this?

      • Doug

        Damn, I was hoping to stay out of this! 😉 Seriously though, I think there is no doubt that Empty and Numb has done her research and certainly narcissism and codependency play a role in many affair situations. In my opinion, to paint all infidelity cases with such a broad brush is not accurate. I do think that E & N in her own self-righteous way is trying to help, but saying the same thing repeatedly in such a negative fashion is counter productive.

    • Roller coaster rider

      P.S. If I say my intentions are to help, how do I then turn around and say “I could care less what any of you do?”

    • Empty and Numb

      My intentions are to help! I’ve never cared what people do with my information.  I’ve posted my research … You agree or don’t but to attack just shows why you are where you are. 

      What you do with your lives is your business.  
       
      It is clear … I have helped some.  I’ve also posted to release my pain, too.  But I guess there are unwritten rules I’m missing? And, a way in which I am supposed to be myself! Lol!

      Again … I wonder who is really behind these posts.  I suspect a few things. Hence … I’ve come to do what I set out to for those smart enough to dig deep and evolve within their lives.  Ya can lead the Cows to the water but you can’t make them drink.

      It would seem that this had gone to a bizarre childish level of some weird form of bullying to make yourselves feel better for staying in misery. 

      Have at it! Lol!

      I don’t know how many times I can try to be nice cause I know you are all suffering.  I get I’ve struck huge nerves and would never do so to hurt.

      But I really do wish you the best.  Instead of worrying about me … You should really worry about yourselves and I will do the same.

      What a bunch of high school mean girls but then again … Par for the way you lead your lives.  Yes … I do judge because I have been judged.

      Every assumption you’ve made … I’ve tried to explain otherwise and that is it.

      But I don’t take what you say seriously.  Your choosing to remain in abuse.  That can not be argued with. 

      I offered help and you want to call it psychobabble. 

      I’m simply defending myself and will no longer.  So … Let it all out.  If it makes you feel good to hurt others … Than so be it.  Was a nice visit. Helped me a lot. Thank you Doug and Linda. I wish you both and all well! 

    • melissa

      E&N
      Your viewpoint is certainly of interest, it has struck a chord with me, and it is well worth researching but as Linda (and others) said, every situation is different.

      We can evolve but it is highly unlikely anyone will ever achieve perfection. We can but try…

      I don’t think it is productive to call everyone who has expressed an opinion about your posts ‘a bunch of high school girls’ – that is the position of the bully. Maybe if you looked at each post as objectively as possible and did not set yourself out to be the one who holds the truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth. Everyone is experiencing things differently, with social, cultural, educational and environmental backgrounds which all differ. If you are able to take criticism objectively, then you will not feel the need to ‘defend yourself’. If,as you say, you know how awful it is to be judged, the first thing I would do is try not to be judgemental and not to call others names.

      Abuse of any kind (physical and mental, affairs, cheating, lies, betrayal) is never a cut and dry issue and getting out of an abusive situation – or resolving it, however imperfectly – is difficult and takes courage and a hard, long look at oneself. The important thing, I think, is that whatever choice we make (to go, to stay, a half way house), we understand why we made that choice and live with the consequences of that choice in peace, but always striving to achieve more peace, more balance, more love.

    • Broken

      Marie You said “the need to hurt because you feel I am hurting you is beyond comprehension” ….where in the world did you get that from???? You are all over the page. We dont even know you so why in the world would you think you could ever hurt anyone here? I truely think the person that hurts the most of anyone ….is you. Anger and jugement is all I read in your posts. You have a need to attack anyone that disagrees with you and twist around their words to make your point. You seem like a very sad person. I highly doubt you are an MD and if I ever was spoken to like you speak to me in a docters office….I would walk out. Your girls have an exit plan to leave their marriages just in case their husbands cheat? Wow how sad is that? In my world……the one with other adults in it……nothing is black and white.

      Everyone here is struggling with the same things. When you make blanket statements about what everyone should and shouldn’t do …you only cause more pain…..and when you become angry because people don’t agree with your every word then your credibility becomes questionable.

      I know it doesn’t matter what I say…..folks like you will sadly never change….and usually run when the going gets rough.

      Good luck to you…..come back anytime……it was a pleasure.

      Also….your “hunch” about people who question you? No in my case I am not the cheater…can’t speak for anyone else but I am not doing some covert operation to gain information regarding cheating…so in my case your “hunch” is wrong. Lol as you would say.

    • Broken

      Brian staystrong is right. How are you doing today? Take care of yourself…I know its really hard. Thinking about you and hoping you are ok.

      • Brian

        I’ve had better days… I’m torn between what’s best for me and the boys vs what’s best for the relationship because, ultimately, having the marriage continue is what’s best for everyone. If I stay, our home will be hell for everyone and any chance of us being together will be gone eventually. If I leave maybe it will give us the cooling off period we need to think. No easy answers…

        • roller coaster rider

          What’s best for the relationship, in my opinion, is for one person to be stable, unmovable, unwilling to let another ‘take over’ and you don’t have to be in the same room or engage in any kind of dialogue. Brian, she may be saying one thing today and absolutely either not mean it or change her mind tomorrow. Granted, it might be less painful for you to be elsewhere, but as Doug and others have said, legally it puts you at a great disadvantage to leave. Giving her that advantage in the state she’s in right now doesn’t sound like a good idea; it seems more like giving in to the preschooler throwing a tantrum.

          • Brian

            You called it… she told me last night that she does not want me to leave… she does not want to upset the boys right now, especially our youngest. She feels like she can live with the situation as it is… for now. She said that, earlier, her emotions were talking but she’s changed her mind.

            We start counseling on Monday. There’s so much to discuss but I will try to be calm and make it a productive session. We’ll see what comes out of it…

            • Doug

              That’s good news Brian. It’s very hard, in my opinion, to work on the marriage when separated. I wonder though if it was really her emotions talking or if there is trouble in La La land.

            • Roller coaster rider

              Brian, I know that shortly after D-day I told H I didn’t think I ever wanted to see or talk to him again, let alone sleep in the same bed. Now, just weeks later, I have feelings that are completely different and much of it has come from him showing me that he is willing to do whatever I need to see to prove that he loves me and is sorry. He knows this isn’t a short process, and that trust is very hard to regain. On your end, I think your wife will have a very hard time denying the unconditional love you are showing her and your sons and love is more powerful than anything. Just stay strong and take care of yourself.

            • roller coaster rider

              Brian, I am thinking about your first session Monday and about what she said regarding the OP (‘just friends, only ‘hangs out’ occasionally, etc.) I hope she will be truthful with the counselor because I think it is very likely she is lying to you about what’s going on. I just want you to know that in the middle of this weekend, I am hoping you are doing well.

    • melissa

      Last note on the latest post and I’ll hold my peace on this one (well, I hope so).

      I think that none of us here should presume and accuse or hint that some of us are not what we say we are.

      Maybe it’s true in some cases but it’s likely not to be the case (a lot of the posts here ring absolutely true). The first rule should be ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and there is no proof that anyone is bogus or fake or pretending to be someone else. If they are, it’s their problem and their lies will come to light at one stage or other … the issue we have to deal day in day out is trust in our spouses (or the lack of) and I hope that we can trust most of the people on this site. Their interpretation of their own and others’ situation, of course, is subjective but we are all subjective and view our life through many prisms, including our education, our values, our life experience, our friends’ experience. Nothing is clear cut, nothing is easy to work out. That’s life, folks.

    • Brian

      I’ve had better days, Broken. Don’t want to leave but like an idiot I’m still trying to hang on to the possiblity we could reconcile, so I’m thinking maybe I should leave so we can cool things off a bit, maybe she’ll have second thoughts if I’m not around. I don’t know…

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      I think you are right about Marie not being an MD I work for a very large Health Care organization and the as they call themselves Physician’s and Surgeons who also work in the research would use a much broader base for research projects and not issue such broad generalities.

    • Empty and Numb

      The transference that some of you think I am judging … rather than telling you what I did, how I got out of it … sharing the pain I have left … and my story … is ridiculous.

      How many times do I have to say … I am judging for myself … what I did and what I would do if in some of your shoes … and what I have researched.

      Then … some freakishly think I am speaking to them and telling them what to do? LOL!

      I don’t know how many times I have to say … “There are always exceptions to the rule”? I don’t know how many times I have to say … “I am judging what I would do”. I don’t know how many times I have to say, “I am expressing my research”?
      I don’t know how many times … I have to say … “These are my thoughts and experiences”? WHAT DO YOU NOT GET? LOL!

      “Self Righteous”? LOL! That is amazing … coming from Doug, I think? I stumbled upon a web site that I thought helped people?

      I do think Linda and Doug’s posts do help. I didn’t realize that the victims want to stay stuck in abuse and like it. I thought … ya might want to hear some truth? LOL!

      But what I think this is … is more shining of the BS of long term cheaters and “Experts” selling “The Fog” of the long term cheater … selling their “fix it all” marriage guides.

      I don’t carry the same martyrdom that ya’ll carry. I think it is so sad. So sad … especially for the victims that have children under their roof and are not under the care of a professional psychiatrist or therapist.

      Yes … bullying because you can not seem to figure out that I am not judging you but judging what I would do … and letting you in on my research.

      You all must be exceptions to the rule. But … sadly what I see is severely codependent people who’s lives are in grave danger. Good luck with that!

      I don’t really have much more to say … I thought this was an adult site. But it isn’t.

      It is a site for codependents that want to control and gain back their “Prized” spouses. LMAO! WOW!

      Yes … when you attack me for my opinions and research … people are bullying. I struck a nerve. I get it.

      Every situation is different. I have been talking about averages. The sad part … is the victims what to change their spouse so badly … that they are living in hell. The other sad part is … the massive manipulation that goes on to change someone … and that is being sold here.

      YIKES!

    • michael

      About E&N,
      There are interesting things in what she says. And things that don’t pertain to me. Like any book you read, like it or don’t like it. Certainly we would not camp out at a book signing of an affair repair book, booing, or yelling. Like anything else, take it or leave it. I personally don’t care if she is who she says she is. She has as much right to speak her mind here.
      Linda is a pretty good judge of what’s unacceptable. Doug and Linda have every right to accept or delete any comment they chose.
      Do I agree with her, mostly No. Do any of you agree that I should be here talking about how my wife lied to me again. Many have said “leave her” but I made a choice. Do I feel that I am abusing myself by not kicking her out, no. Do I think E&N should preach what she says was right for her and then turn around and say that she is suffering too. How is it that she made the right choices if she is still suffering?
      But when it gets down to calling readers on here “mean girls” or saying that there are those on here that aren’t who they say they are. I don’t care. But like I’ve tried to teach my nephew, responding in any negative ways by her or us is unproductive.
      If she wants my opinion she can defiantly ask it. And if I don’t want hers I can defiantly not read it. Although I read everything I can.
      But the root of it is, this is not a site for discouraging words. This is a site for encouragement and advise and a safe place to vent about the affair. If I wanted to know how much I’m f-d up I’ll go pay to see a shrink.
      No one answer fits all. And if you do the math, maybe a job for Doug to do, I bet the readers in here are a small percentage of the population dealing with infidelity. So we shouldn’t be treated as just statistics. If 90% of marriages end because of infidelity, it doesn’t mean 90% of us will chose that path. Although some may.
      Sorry, I just had to put my two word in.
      Its been a trying week, and I feel better every day. I’m stronger, understand more, and learn more every day.
      Right or wrong I chose my path. And I would never tell anyone that they should chose a path I tell them to.
      Its your choice. And for most of us our choice is the right one for us. Stay strong. Learn more.
      Dream of a better day.
      Believe that it will come.
      Inspire others to do the same.

      • Doug

        Well put as usual. Michael.

    • roller coaster rider

      Thanks, Michael. i really appreciate all that you said. I too feel like it has been a trying week, but a good one. I do believe a better day will come. I hope to inspire someone, but even if that never happens I will always be grateful for everything because somehow it all fits together to make me who I am.

    • blueskyabove

      I must say this has been an interesting exchange of opinions…and that’s all they are, just opinions. Within each of us we have the freedom to accept or discard the opinions of others. All of us are affected by our own life experiences and our beliefs. The opinions of others do not define you, your choices define you.

      Since no two of us have had exactly the same experience in life, we are each magnificently unique. Your birth was not by accident. You have a higher purpose in life than you are currently allowing yourself to experience. Open your heart to the glory and wonder of You.

      As Eckhart Tolle states, “You are here to enable the divine purpose of the universe to unfold. That is how important you are!”

    • suziesuffers

      I know I’m codependent. I don’t agree with Marie’s “tone” at times…..Marie, I think when you tell us we are basically fools for trying to save our marriages and we are only doing it because we tolerate the intolerable and enjoy the abuse…….I think it makes us defensive. We have already PILED a laundry list on ourselves because of our perceived failures because of the infidelity of our spouses. We compare ourselves to the OP, we reevaluate our history, scrutinizing all the “wrong” turns we might have made that could have forced our spouse into the arms of another. One more accusation can push us over the edge. So please help us understand your pain, because we can hear it in your story….but make it about what you suffered through and not a blanket accusation that we are all idiots because of the “abuse” we are tolerating by trying to save our marriages. I think you will find a much more receptive crowd. We are just a bunch of people gathered together to console each other through the pain of infidelity.

      I’m still walking on the fence about whether my marriage is salvagable. I know alot of the decisions I’ve made in my life were based upon my fear of abandonment and loss rather than for my best interest. This latest affair has actually brought that to light for me. As much pain as I’ve gone through during the affair, I’ve also gained some insight into me and why I make choices the way I do. I’ve grown. So were all these issues in me before I met him…or did they come about after I met him? Was I wounded when I came into this relationship or wounded after? Either way, I’m starting to heal now. Maybe he was wounded when he came into this relationship, and is just healing now too? Could we come together as two new people, now healed within ourselves to then have a NEW relationship? I don’t know those answers. I do know some of the readings state that the old relationship dies and you have to have a new relationship. Maybe that’s how it happens. I won’t know until I go down that road.

      Marie, I can hear your pain. Sometimes it feels like your attacking us instead of directing your anger towards your ex-husband. I think we are all angry that we have to make ANY decisions about our marriages because of infidelity and maybe that’s where you’re coming from too. You were FORCED to leave because you could not tolerate the behavior of your husband cheating…..and that is NEVER fair. I think we all have a right to discuss how WE feel. We are all fragile here and I think when we give suggestions to someone, they are just that…suggestions. We don’t try to DIRECT someone else to do what we did, we can only tell our story and let everyone make a decision as to what direction they want to take their life. I’m so grateful for the input from everyone on this blog…..after all….who can you talk to about this stuff….if you haven’t been there.

      I don’t know if Doug and Linda get kick backs for the referrals they give for Dr. Gunzberg, Dr. Huiezga, Jeff Murrah and any other endorsements they give out. But actually, right now I don’t care. The people that are posting here are in the same pain as me….and just knowing I’m not alone and my feelings aren’t crazy, is immeasurable.

      As they say….when you’re here, listen to what is said….take what you like and leave the rest.

      • Robin

        Suzie,

        Beautifully said!!

      • Doug

        Excellent post Suzie. I’m gonna add a few things… We started this site a year and half ago in the hopes that we could help others by sharing our experiences and by presenting resources that could be of benefit. One of the key elements that has been so positive is the sharing and support of others who have also suffered as a result of infidelity.

        We like to think that everyone who comes here can be a part of a safe community with the common goal of healing and ultimately saving their marriage if at all possible. Not all of the information that is shared by Linda and I, as well as you the reader, is applicable to every situation, but hopefully the ideas and support that are shared here as a whole can give sufferers (both betrayed and cheater alike) enough ammunition that they can gain strength and have the hope that recovering from an affair is possible and that they can have a better relationship down the road.

        The last year and a half has been a major learning and personal growth experience for both Linda and myself, and though much of it has been a result of our own choices to make changes in our relationship, reading books, research, etc., I would say the lion’s share of our growth has been achieved due to the contributions and the sharing of stories and ideas from those who contribute on a daily basis. The comments made by the readers are a daily source of conversation and/or debate between Linda and I, which has helped us to gain a better understanding within our own relationship on many different levels. Those who come here need to utilize the site similarly and understand that this is a place where it is cool to exchange feelings, ideas, advice, etc and make their own decisions as to what might or might not be applicable to their own situations.

        Approximately 1200 people a day visit this site from all around the world. Only about 1 – 2% make comments. Imagine if each person who visited shared what was on their mind at the time, or offered some helpful advice based on their own experiences. What a great stockpile of useful “stuff” we would have then!

        I hope everyone has a great day today and for all you Moms out there, try to have a great Mother’s Day on Sunday!

      • karen

        Suzie: Thanks for speaking for the majority of us, CS’s and BS’s, on this site – brilliant!!! Marie: I wish you the best in your healing going forward. Happy Mother’s Day all you wonderful mothers on this site!!!

    • broken

      Suzi…..loved your post as usual. Marie has a very long way to go. She is very angry….

    • PTY

      First, good to hear about Brian. Being a history buff, it is good to remembe George Washington really didn’t win a lot of is battles. His greatest skill was staying in the game, so to speak, until the great opportunity arose. I think that is how many of us need to look at this. To paraprhase Dr. Frank Pittman, sometimes if you can hang on long enough, sanity may return, and you may want to be around for that.

      Also, I am hoping some of the recent bitterness can pass. I think we are all on the same side here. Even the Cheating spouses are here to heal. We need to remember the real problem, and not get distracted.

      • Doug

        Well said PTY. We did an interview the other day with Dave Carder and one thing that he said that goes with what you say, is that getting them to stay is the important thing initially – no matter the reason – as it gives you the opportunity to get them to eventually see the light and to possibly work on your relationship. Nothings a given, but at least you have that chance.

    • Jessica

      Brian,

      That is very good news

    • Broken

      Brian….I am so happy for you. Staying is absolutely the best thing for your marriage but you had to reach that conclusion yourself. You can give her the space she wants within your own home. Stay the course. Sounds like there is trouble in paradise so to speak. I don’t think people can live a lie and be truely happy. It has to eat away at them. Anyways hang in there my friend. There is a window of hope…hang onto it.

    • Broken

      I have a question? Is there ever a time to stop talking about it? Does it damage any progress you have made to talk about it as the months go on? I still feel the need but I can see by my H facial expressions (eye rolling) that he doesn’t want to. Why do I still have questions about questions that have allready been answered? If you are the person who cheated what do you feel when your partner wants to talk about “it”? Do you ever really trust again? While I really enjoy my H company and we have come a long way…I deal with these questions every day. I still have this broken record in my head that just wont go away. I have devoted so much time and energy to all of this and I grow weary. I also think alot about the OW. I think about the irony that this uninvited guest has stolen a part of me and has brought my marriage to its knees and she doesn’t even know it. I look at pics of her on Facebook (makes me want to vomit) and she is going about her life, running her marathons like nothing ever happened. These are the days I want to call her and tell her she detroyed my life. I assume she wouldn’t care. Thats it….bad day.

      • Doug

        Broken, Certainly talking about the affair isn’t something any cheater wants to do. However, if the cheater gets to the point that he/she can be empathetic and acknowledge the need for the BS to to so in order to heal, then it is something that they should want to do. I may be different than most CS here since this blog is a part of our everyday life, but I have no problems talking about it most of the time, though I admit I get frustrated answering the same questions over and over. That being said, I know from talking to Linda why she has the need to re-hash things at times and if my talking about it gets her closer to healing, then that’s a good thing. This viewpoint has come over a rather long period of time however, and certainly at first (and for several months thereafter), talking about the affair was the last thing I wanted to do. If you can create a safe environment for which to have those discussions it does make it somewhat easier.

      • Doug

        Broken, I feel the need to talk about it stems from the fact that you still fear that you don’t know or understand everything you need in order to heal from the affair. I kept asking and searching because I didn’t feel secure enough to let it go. I didn’t feel that I was getting the responses and the reassurances that I needed from Doug in order to forgive, trust and recover.

        Until Doug really understood the pain his affair caused and what he needed to do to help in my recovery I couldn’t let it go. I know it challenged Doug’s patience but I also believed that it demonstrated how committed he was to our marriage.

        The affair was a life altering, traumatic event for me and I wasn’t able to stop talking about the pain and details just because a certain time had passed. Our communication about the affair and the OP was a process, our discussions and revelations changed with time. As our communication about the affair became less emotional, (because I had heard most of the details before) we were able to decipher it and have important conversations about our relationship.

        For a very long time it really bothered me that I kept obsessing about the OP and the affair. I wondered what was wrong with me and why I couldn’t let it go. Both Jeff and Dr. Huizenga pointed out something very important… for one, I had lost all of my sense of security and safety and that in itself takes a lot to get back. They also said that I can’t do that alone. I need Doug to be there for me 100%. His behavior and words were needed to help me move beyond the pain.

        Think about what else you need from your husband. Do you need more reassurances, do you feel completely secure and trust him? Have you talked about forgiveness, has he asked for forgiveness? Think about it. –Linda

    • Broken

      Doug…thanks for the insight. He has said the same thing…that if it helps me he will talk about it. Unfortunately when I push it and we do I can expect to have a depressed H and a bad night. It almost becomes not even worth it to make myself feel better so generally I just stuff my feelings away somewhere until the need to talk passes. When I ask the same questions of course I get that he allready answered them and he remembers everything I have asked him in the past. It seems as time goes further and further from DDay that it is less and less appropriate to talk about the A but I have such a need to do so. I wish it would go away. By the way I watched the Dave Carder interviews on utube and they were very good. Close call seems like another good read.
      What would be your definition of a safe enviroment? I believe I use to be a drill sargeant with my questions but now we just talk about it. Is there something I can do to make it less threatening? Something I can say to make him talk about it without feeling like I am trying to make him feel bad? That is what he thinks…that he feels persecuted over and over everytime I want to talk about it? I feel selfish for wanting to.

      • Doug

        Broken, I think to have someone that says he will talk about it if it helps is a great thing. So many people on this site say their CS refuses to talk about it at all. So it seems your spouse is at least willing to help you heal.

        You need to stop feeling selfish for wanting to talk about it. Remember that forgiving, trusting, respecting, etc is all achieved based on your time frame -when you’re ready. Not when he is.

        I’m sure that you found out that being a drill sergeant did not help to create a safe environment. That’s one thing. Being safe also means not threatening, arguing, confronting, making fun of, ridiculing or attacking the person you are talking to. All of these things will make anybody shut down. You have to have the mindset where you will really listen and hear your husband out. Jeff Murrah likes to say that understanding is more important than agreement. It helps to use “I” words too. For instance, “I really need to better understand why…” “I would feel so much better if…”

        Believe me, I know how a discussion about the affair can ruin a good evening. Sometimes I think timing can be everything. Keep the conversations short, unless he keeps talking on his own. You may even try to schedule a time (or times) regularly to talk about it, and then promise not to talk about it any other time. Booze helps too 😉

        We really think Dave Carder is great. His book Torn Asunder is also very good. We did a telephone interview with him for our book on trust and he has some really good things to say. He’s a no bullsh*t kind of guy.

    • Empty and Numb

      Suze, I was a codependent and I’m recovering.  I appreciate your sensitivity. I felt and have went through what you have. For all the reasons I’ve said … It is still painful. Thank you for acknowledging my hurt.  It means a lot.

      I don’t know how else to explain what I have.  Yet, people seem to think I’m telling them what to do or judging them?   They are transferring my thoughts and opinions … and thinking this is what I want for them. And I am sorry if my writing doesn’t sit well! I’m not angry for being judged but saddened that people can’t understand things I’ve over explained? 

      I don’t mean to and would never think to hurt. Not my nature.  I am sharing my truth.

      Again what I am saying or writing are my thoughts, opinions, research, etc …. and what I would do … (in hindsight) if I were in this same position.  What ever anyone wants to do … Please do.

      What is really disturbing to me is that this blog (I know run by amateurs with great intent to help) is that there (again my opinion) are no warnings that codependency is a deadly disease.  That is frightening.

      What is also disturbing is that they are not warning or advising that the family (especially with children under the same roof) should be in counseling immediately.  

      These situations are EXTREME, LIFE THREATENING abuse.  Would one advise a spouse to stay with someone who is physically beating them every day??? No … There are shelters for this. 

      The covert abuse … this is all just coming to light.  Psychological abuse is far, far worse than any physical violence.  Think of the Japanese prison camps.  They used no violence … was all psychological.  

      Codependency of the worst kind …. is all I see on these posts …. especially from those that are the most angry with me …. which are the narcissists and codependents.  

      I also see the horrific pacifying of Narcissim and codependency.  It is gross.  The fog or that the cheater (Again my opinion and my truth) narcissist is somehow under a “drug-like” state.  And some of the other excuses … is beyond my comprehension.  And it is not the truth of what the victim is going through or the cheater. 

      Both longterm cheater and victim have been in a fog their entire marriage.  Victim … always abused … longterm cheater … always the abuser! Again …. These are averages.  There are always exceptions.  Again, my truth and my opinion.  Do what you will with it.

      The advice and blogs to massively manipulate the cheater to change is nothing short of significant misguided information and dangerous. Again, my opinion … Again my truth.

      Again … All my opinions … what everyone does is right for them.  I don’t know what more I can say to tell people to stop transferring my opinions … As that I want them to do what ever I did … or what I know is right for them.  My thoughts and opinions are based in 17 years of research. 

      As a health care professional …..  a warning not to be on this site of the deadly effects of codependency, the staying in the same house with an abuser … Especially if kids are under the roof … without advising that the whole family should be in therapy … To me … is nothing short of massive irresponsibility. Again, my opinion… Again, my truth.

      So, I hope Doug and Linda place the links up some where and give warnings.

      I don’t know if Doug and Linda get kickbacks but I sure would assume so. 

      My husband is investigating the authors they suggest.  A few are good … Others … Not so much. When my book hits at the end of 2012 … I am already slated for the talk show arena where this will all be exposed.  

      What is great about this blog … Is it gives people a place to vent.  I know it has been very helpful to me until attacked.  Yet, my husband said that is exactly what would happen.  People are so scared and hurt and they don’t want to nor are
      Ready to heal, wake up and get life moving in a healthy way.  Again …. His opinion.

      I do judge for myself …. And come from a place “what I would do” …. If in someone’s shoes. I know I have helped on this site.  I do know …. I’ve helped Linda and she is wide awake!

      No one should tell any one what to do but everyone can give their opinions or advice. 

      Can you imagine (if the family in crises is not all under the care of a good therapist) the effect this is having on children that live in the same house!?

      It will be interesting to see if this gets posted.  But, I hope for Doug and Linda’s sake …. They highlight the health risks of staying in abuse, codependency, narcissism and that therapy should be the rule.  

      Blows my mind!!!

      “self righteous”?  No!  Very concerned about the manipulative Advice given and warnings not on this site …. Yes! Good luck everyone. 

      Lastly … The wonderful love and support that is given on this site between people is. Magical for everyone! The love and compassion I see is outstanding.  And, I wish this would have been around for me when I really needed it.  It has helped me in so many ways.

      Apologies for the grammatical errors.  As a surgeon … I’m always on the move and responding on my iPhone …. Unedited thoughts, my truths and my opinions.

    • Broken

      Doug and Linda…thank you for your advise. I am going to read your responses to my H. I think it makes him feel better that he isn’t the only one out there that made a big mistake. I allready forgive him….I guess that’s why I wonder why I still think about it all of the time. Albeit less time then say 2 months ago. We have wonderful times together, great talks, quiet moments but I still feel this profound sadness and constant rolling of the “tape” in my head. I can’t expect him to meet my every need and when he is depressed like he has been this week because of his work I think its all about me. I panic…whats wrong…is he talking to her again…is our marriage going back to how it was just after dday. Its ridiculous. Lately I just want to call her and ask her if she has any clue to what she has done to me? How this meaningless individual has destroyed everything I ever thought I knew about myself and my husband.

      Linda…I dont feel secure…AT ALL and I dont trust him…AT ALL. Last Friday when he went out I tried to stay calm, went swimming but I was really upset. I NEVER was like this before. My H traveled with a major corp for most of our marriage…I trusted him completely and never even though about him cheating on me. This is all new to me.

      Just wish I knew how to get the old me back for good. Wish I could let it go and trust again.

    • Other woman

      Its a very trying time I am the other woman so I get no support from my friends I was expecting him to leave his wife and for us to be together she found out about me and now the wife who didn’t show him any attention for a year has now decided she wants to be with him and make their marriage work, this had been devastating and the hurt is almost unbearable at times he was wonderful to me during this past year and I’m having a hard time letting go

      • Norwegian woman

        Don`t you understand? His wife was great all the time. He just made it up all the time. He had to, because he had an affair with you. How can you justifie cheating on your wife, if she is ok? He had to make her an uncaring bitch. But beneath it all, he loved her, because sh was all that he wanted. That is why he is married to her in the first place. You have been fooled.

    • Kathy

      Other woman,

      You get ZERO sympathy from me.

      You’ve most likely only heard HIS side of the story. You don’t know what really went on between the Cheating Man and his Betrayed Wife. And even if she DIDN’T show him any attention, guess what? It’s none of your business! It never should have even been mentioned to you, because you are not a part of their marriage.

      You feel devastated? Good. You think your pain is unbearable??? Imagine what his wife feels! Oh, but you probably don’t care because it’s all about you, and he didn’t leave her for you. You know what? Too bad.

      I’m glad your friends don’t support you. I hope they tell you to your face what a rotten thing it is that you did, and that you find someone SINGLE to date (I hope you aren’t married too).

      I hope that you are here to learn and to find your way to heal and to never do this to anyone again.

    • Donna

      Other Woman… I felt sick reading your post. You really are under an illusion. Short story… my husband had a emotion turned physical affair where he proclaimed true love with other woman. Was planning to leave me.. so he told he, but to me the wife told me that he never planned to leave. We spoke one day about how much the wife gets lied too, and he said.. actually you both get lied to just as much. What he as telling me, he was telling the other woman differently. 2 years later, the affair lasted 18 months, my husband is home with me and the other woman is moved away and now has a boyfriend.

      You have no sympathy from me either. You are doing wrong, you know you are. Look really deep inside and see the picture for what it is. I too am glad you are finding this painful, you have no idea the pain you feel when you find out youhave been betrayed by the one you have made a long life with and created a family with. Of course he was wonderful to you, how else would he get his cake and eat it too. Best of both worlds you see. His wife is not the ogre you think she is, if that was true he would have up and left if he was really in love with you. I hope you can move on and let this man make a darn good go at his marriage without you anywhere near him. In other words…. RUN far away and leave a married man alone.

    • suziesuffers

      I am ALWAYS angry at the other woman……but my husband had to want to do the “tango” too….otherwise, nothing would have happened. I want to blame her solely because I love my husband and I don’t know her. I can hate her for what she did to my life….but I can’t hate my husband, I can only be hurt by him. I hope Other Woman stays on this site and reads about the pain felt by the wife that is at home holding it together while the spouse is out “playing” the field. I hope she gives us insight into how these affairs start, maybe to protect us in the future….and for her to understand that Kathy and Norwegian woman have stated, you really don’t know his wife. You only know what someone has told you in order to justify his behavior. If he had told you he had a wonderful and caring wife and loved her dearly…..would you have started an affair with him…..most likely not. He has to rewrite history and expand on any little flaw in order for him to feel better about his actions and to pull you in. I’m not saying he did this consciously or maliciously, it’s how people manipulate others to get what they want when they aren’t listening to that small voice…their conscience. My husband is telling me now that he told the other woman that I nagged and complained to him all the time. That I was a b&$tch. Well, I’m sure he didn’t explain that I was complaining because I was working 10 hour days to support the mortgage because he didn’t have any work self employed and his day started about 10….took a 1 1/2 hour lunch and ended about 3….and he couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t making any money…..Oh, no he never told her that…he spent money on her like he was loaded. He told her how proud he was of her work ethic, her interaction with small children, her decorating ability etc. etc. Flattery will get you anywhere. It was alot of “inflating” of egos….best foot forward…and since they weren’t living in the reality of a day to day life of bills, kids, job problems, healing old wounds created during a long term relationship..etc. etc….something that all would eventually be dropped in their lap….it was all the “magic” of the moment.

      Other Woman, I know you are in pain. You were betrayed just as we were by a husband that could not be honest with himself about what was going on in his head….therefore couldn’t evaluate his motivation for pursuing another woman while in his marriage. I absolutely do not condone what you did….but I don’t condone what my husband did either. You need a SINGLE man. If a man really doesn’t want to be with his wife, DO NOT HAVE any involvement with him….it could be something they work out…if not they will divorce and he will be single…..BUT do not start anything or WAIT in the wings for him acting as if you support his marriage, BUT if it doesn’t work, you’ll be there…that is totally unfair to the marriage by hanging a carrot out to see if you can lure him away….THAT would be totally your fault.

      I hope you preview these posts, you may not receive a very receptive audience at first because we may feel that YOU are the perpretrator. Destroying our marriages and our families, and although I do believe you had a large contribution, my husband always had the opportunity to turn away. The blame is not ALL on you, it’s shared by our spouses that thought the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence……but hence lives were destroyed and may never be fixed….all because of the selfishness of two people.

    • suziesuffers

      Doug/Linda, it might be interesting to talk about codependency. I think everyone has it to some degree….and it can be confusing where it crosses the line between being “helpful and giving” to losing yourself because of someone elses actions. As I’ve “unpeeled” that onion, I have discovered many aspects of why I’ve made certain decisions in my life and working now on determing what my motivations are for trying to “keep” my husband and repair our marriage. Knowledge is power, and we could certainly use power and strength in our lives!!

      Marie, I hear many of the things you are saying and agree with some. I think children might need therapy to deal with the “tension”, especially when they aren’t privy to what is creating this tension. Stability is very important to children, and their sense that “something” is wrong, can create alot of pain within them. I would only suggest in your posts that when you state your opinion, be cautious on making statements that imply or state that something “always”….and then make a statment that but there are exceptions. Can’t be both always and exceptions.

      I have had two wonderful therapists, one told me that the words “never” and “always” are virtually impossible and that using them makes a statement that there can never be change or exceptions, which once again is impossible.

    • Empty and Numb

      Thank you Suz. And I will soften that. Stay strong! Xoxo

    • Bigmistake

      E&N, I’ve been reading your posts, you’ve certainly got people thinking and I hope I can clarify some things from the perspective of a CS. Shouldn’t leave it all to Doug…
      You’re right an EA does’t “just happen,” for me my wife and I stopped talking, we got too busy and complacent. I met someone and we clicked. That was not intentional, it did just happen. Both of us when asked would have said we were happily married. We were “just friends.” The first time we went out to lunch and I paid and we didn’t tell our spouses ’cause they “wouldn’t understand” the line was crossed and it was no longer “just happening.”
      This takes us to the “fog.” The fog, to me, is the complete lack of understanding the consequences of your actions. You are completely selfish and have blinders on so you don’t see the chaos and tension you’re family is enduring. I have two teenage daughters, we haven’t told them but they react to change and our home life the last couple of years has been tense. Why? ’cause I was in my own little world.

    • Other woman

      We worked together at the same company for over three years, then we started working on a project together and this put us in contact on a daily basis. Our discussions at first were regarding the project and some work issues. Slowly we started talking about our personal lives and like Bigmistake above we started going out to lunch together once or twice a week. Sometimes I would pay and sometimes he would pay. I am not a therapist so I was listening to him as a friend. I don’t know if what he told me was the truth all I know is he seemed to have alot of time on his hands, I don’t know his wife and never met her. From what he told me about her she didn’t seem co-dependent at all, and maybe even the opposite. She was very busy with managing their two childrens activities, her friendships with other women and her part time job. He told me he felt like he came last in her life, that she only cared about him bringing home a paycheck and that she had given up on herself – meaning she stopped dressing nice, wore sweat pants all the time and had put on about 40 pounds.

      We still work for the same company, so sometimes I do see him in passing and I have to say he looks depressed. From reading some of the other posts I wonder if its because even though he choose his wife, his wife is still harping at him and nagging him about the Emotional Affair? It is painful seeing him and not being able to have a friendship with him, he tries to avoid me when we do have contact.

      • Gizfield

        Other Woman, dont know if you are still out there or not.. News flash, if a man thinks it’s ok to cheat on his wife cause she gained forty pounds, he might not be the best relationship material, just saying. If you want to see what a really depressed, unhappy cheater looks like, come to my house.law says I can’t throw him out, yet. He cooks and cleans and hangs on my everyword, what few there are, like the guy in Trojan Twister commercial. Too bad I no longercare. He seldom leaves the house. Probably afraid he wont get back in. not so “cute” sneaking around on your wife, is it? I bet things just get better for him .

    • roller coaster rider

      This site has helped me so much in the past couple of weeks. The dialogue back and forth, and hearing everyone’s stories helps me to consider lots of things about what has happened in my life and why. We are all different, and yet so much of what we go through in the aftermath of the EA/PA is so similar. The OP didn’t know me well, but did know enough about me that she didn’t want to have a face-to-face conversation when I asked her to (I needed to see what she looked like). I wrote her an e-mail expressing not only my anger at what she had done to me but also concern for her as a person, and she wanted no part of it. She told me to send my H back so he could ‘finish what he started.’ Then she said she wanted no further contact with me. Fine. But that doesn’t mean that I won’t continue to wonder how it might have been to have my husband say to me, just once, “I am unhappy with the way things are right now. I am worried about my preoccupation with everything work-related, and that I never engage you in dialogue about what is important TO YOU. I feel that we’re growing apart, that we’re pursuing our own interests and that we don’t seem to be on the same page at all.” No, she absolutely moved in while I was on an extended trip (which my husband was completely supportive of), texted him graphically about what she’d like to do with him…and over the course of the next several months pursued him, while I was wondering what had happened to him, why was he so unbelievably distracted, and I actually asked him a few times if there was someone else…of course, he lied. I know now that he gave her the impression he didn’t know if things would work out for us, he led her to believe there was some possibility of leaving me but when she started pressing him for commitment he started to back off and eventually told her he wanted to ‘just be friends.’ As if…

      I know it wasn’t just her, and I know that without dropping boundaries almost completely, my H would not have gone into this infidelity. But I am not going to hold her harmless or do what my H did and feel sorry for her, because her life is hard and she struggles with child support issues from her first marriage, which may have also ended due to her unfaithfulness to her previous husband. And I most certainly am not willing to ‘send him back’ despite the fact that I told him if he wanted her, to please feel free…there was a choice to be made and he had to make it. Yet the irony is that I am beginning to see a relationship with my H that we never before experienced. For the first time, he is sharing with me and listening, allowing me to choose how we will proceed from here, expressing vulnerability instead of hostility, really and truly pursuing me, reading this blog and other books, making changes I had given up hope I’d ever see. Will it last? God only knows.

      Other woman, what have you learned? Is it still okay in your mind to ‘listen as a friend?’ No true friend is an enemy of another’s marriage, no matter what that person says about the marriage. Don’t deceive yourself into thinking you are doing anyone any favors, least of all yourself. Let’s just be honest about our real motives. I, too, got very good at finding fulfillment in my women friends, my adult kids, work, books, just about anything, because for years and years my statement to H about feeling lonely or disconnected or ignored meant nothing to him or were met with angry repurcussions. Harping and nagging? Really? You have no idea what the life of this married woman is like, but if her husband is talking to you that way about her, I would bet money he isn’t kind and tender to her, and it almost makes me want to yell thinking about the fact that he’s looking to YOU of all people to get his needs met. How can I be angry at you? How can I not be?

    • Empty and Numb

      Thank you Big Mistake.  In my field … I am one of the guys.  And I’ve always had male friends … males I’ve play tennis with or go to rock concerts with or lectures … or just to grab coffee with. I have male friends dating back to high school.  Never have I crossed that line, opened my body language up for “mating”.

      I’m not going to call you a liar but I do not buy into … “one thing lead to another”!  

      I do know from my research … the anonymous cheaters tell me they were “tapping” for a long time before someone turned around for them to “click” with.

      They have told me that they felt real love which I do agree is lust or the beginning stages of courting. I also believe that long term cheaters have always been lazy and left their victims to do the work, would become frustrated when their victims became exhausted and have been under achievers of the relationship. Long term cheaters were not prepared to be spouses, nor parents. When life rolled in, got tough … they checked out.

      Again, my opinion.  Other than a fling … One time deal … This has been the average.

      But fog? Nah! Have not bought that one yet other than both long term cheater and victim were always in an imbalanced relationship … a fog. Long term cheater comes with the personality disorders I describe … as does victim.

      Again, my opinion and research.  My research has included polygraph tests.  The long term cheater knows what they are hunting from the start.  It is a long obsessive process of, “someone will appreciate me”! 

      And long term cheaters are very angry at their victim spouses and make all sorts of justifications …. Rather than turn toward them to communicate needs, offer suggestions of self help or therapy.

      Again … averages and based in my opinion and research.  Thank you so much for your post.  

    • Bigmistake

      Other Woman, as a CS who came clean two months ago I understand why he looks depressed. Once you admit to yourself what was going on and see the repurcussions of your actions you rethink everything you thought you knew about youself. I hate myself for being so selfish, I hate what I’ve done to my wife; she did meet my AP because we were “just friends” and she is humiliated. Everyone in my office knows because we have gone from joined at the hip to awkwardness and silence. I’m in the process of finding a new job-a fresh start because she is a constant reminder of the pain I have caused my family. I shared my heart with her and I was wrong and my wife cannot stand the idea that we still work together. My stomach churns every day. Is today the day we end up alone together at the copier? Is today the day when she smiles at me will I smile back and start it all over again? How strong am I? I don’t know myself anymore and she only saw the one side I was able to show her so she doesn’t really know me either. I have to keep telling myself that. I’m sure I look miserable all the time too.

    • PTY

      @RCR: GREAT POST. Living through that myself right now.

      @Otherwoman: I think enough of us have exclamied our anger at you, so I won’t. Just remember, you are not even hearing his half of the story, you are only hearing PART of his half of the story. I might suggest you go onto Amazon, where I have seen a number of books oriented toward the OW/OM, and how to break out of that cycle. As much as I can feel anger toward you, I do wish you the best. If you break the cycle, may be it will help your MM and his wife move on also. That is the closest thing there will be to a positive outcome in all of this.

    • Brian

      roller coaster rider,
      I really doubt she’ll bring up the subject of her “friend” in counseling because in her mind it’s not the issue. She feels the issue is that she fell out of love with me… which it is, but her relationship with another man, where she is going to him for emotional support and companionship and not to me, can only have a negative impact on her feelings for me and therefore on our relationship. Who knows? She might come clean but I don’t think so. More likely I will have to bring it up, calmly hopefully. I’m getting pretty anxious about Monday…

      Thanks for thinking of us.

      • roller coaster rider

        I guess the only thing to do is pray for the light to dawn and be as steady as you can. let us know how it goes..

        • Brian

          Well we just had our first couples session… she says she’s not ready for separation or divorce and she wants me to stay home for now. She doesn’t know why she has lost feelings for me but she admits we have a lot of positives in the relationship (parenting, morals, roles). She said resents that she’s always the one to plan things for us to do and I said I would start doing more of that. She did say she wants more fun in her life and I totally agreed. We’ve been running the treadmill so long we forgot how to get off and enjoy ourselves. I’m certainly guilty of that. She’s not ready to date me so I’m not pushing it. She did say she would cut back on texting the guy she still insists is just a friend. We’ll see.

          Hey, it’s a start… certainly not out of the woods.

          • Roller coaster rider

            It really is a start and I think she does see your strong commitment to stick with her and stay despite her terrible behavior as a sign she needs to think about long and hard.

      • melissa

        Brian
        It will take time. Take care of yourself in the meantime and hang in there.

        • Brian

          I will, Melissa… thanks.

    • suziesuffers

      Big Mistake….It’s good to hear that the CS has remorse and shame for what they did to their spouse….but even people getting divorced without infidelity at times feel saddness for the loss. I guess my question is, it sounds like the CS still has tremendous feelings for the AP…you still have fear of seeing her…being near her. So, how do you know this isn’t the person you want to be with instead of your wife? Do you feel this is just infatuation? Do you feel your feelings are still stronger for the AP person than your feelings for your wife? Are you afraid if you got in a close situation with someone else you might be tempted again. I hope you can answer these honestly. Please don’t “sugar coat” the answers hoping it will make us feel better. I think we all need to understand what our spouses are going through and how to work through that ourselves….we all know the elephant is standing in the room….we know how she looks….but we don’t know through the eyes of the CS how she looks. My husband just kept telling me that he had never felt like that before…..which of course, broke my heart…and I of course don’t know how I could ever exceed those feelings…therefore never attain the level of “love” he felt for the other woman.

    • Bigmistake

      Suzie-I’ll answer your questions to the best of my ability, I don’t feel I am articulate enough to express myself in writing but here goes…
      I’ve seen all these posts where the CS is telling the OP all their frustrations in marriage, things they should be telling their spouse or complaining how she/he doesn’t understand them and they don’t talk. For me it was never like that. The Ow & I are both married & have children. We talked very easily, just complete comfort, like two olds friends seeing each other again. She has a twin sister and early on in our “friendship” remarked that I was as easy to talk to as her sister and she found that rather odd. We could finish each others sentences, laugh at the same jokes, read the same books. We once had a mini fight over a presentation we were preparing and another coworker commented that we “fight like an old married couple.” Do I think I loved her-yes. Didn’t you love your first steady boyfriend? You broke up, but does that erase the good memories? At one point did I wish I had met her first? Absolutely. But does that give me the right to flush 17 years of marriage? Absolutely not. I love my wife and yes we argue, but she put alot of work into me. We met at 18 in college and became adults together, in good tomes and bad. Now we’ll stay together through the worst time of our lives. I don’t love the OW more than my wife. I can’t even really compare them to each other. I did like myself more with her. I felt smarter, funnier, better looking, and I liked how she looked at me. I couldn’t stop thinking about her and looked forward to seeing her every day. Why don’t I want to see her? I’m afraid. I have never strayed and thought so little of the people I knew who did. Just because I have now joined that group should I change my opinion? I have to redefine myself and I don’t know if I’m strong enough to say no. Plus my life is an open book to my wife, I tell her every time the OW & I interact and I see the pain it causes her. My wife isn’t like everybody else on this site. I’m doing research and asking her if she wants to talk, she wants to pretend like nothing happened. So, I worry. About her, about me, about us. Everything feels magnified and I’m on pins and needles waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    • Rx lady

      WOW! I have been going through a lot of the same. After I found all the credit card info, he denied it and said it was for the 12 year old daughter from a previous affair before we were married. But does a 12 year old need things from Frederick’s??? He moved out a month ago. Said he needs his space to try to figure out his problems and is seeing a psychiatrist. Other woman is from church (shame on the pastor for allowing this even when it’s in his face). Needless to say my children and I will not be going to that church any more. Comes to see us almost every day, but I’m not sure why other than to get a free meal sometimes or remove more of his personal belongings. I want this to work out for us in the end, but I really believe he’s playing me, and so is the OW. She even harrasses my mom in church by asking to be friends and go out with her. What a jerk!!! Any thoughts????

    • Jessica

      Big Mistake,

      Thank you for being so honest. Maybe your wife is only asking the questions she can bare to hear the answers to. How did your wife find out? How did you tell the AP it was over? Did you ever consider leaving your wife? If not why? If you had all these feelings for the AP why didn’t you just leave your wife?

    • Kathy

      Big Mistake,

      Of course you felt smarter, funnier, etc with the OW. She hasn’t seen you at your worst…of course you liked the way she looked at you! She hasn’t had to juggle the bills with you, pick up your dirty socks, cook your dinner, take care of you when you were sick, put up with your bad moods, and all the other myriad things that go along with 17 years of marriage.

      After my d-day, I told my H I was going to call the OW and tell her what she was getting: how he throws and breaks things when he’s angry, how moody he can be, how he can’t put his dirty clothes in the laundry hamper when it’s just 2 feet away, how he can talk down to you in such a way that you feel like a moron…those kinds of things. Do you know what he said to me? He said “why do you want to destroy my happiness”!

      He knew she didn’t know anything about that side of him; the side that I’d been putting up with for 28 years. All she saw was the fun guy, the witty guy, the loving guy. I’m sure that he saw his “good side” reflected in her eyes, and he sure didn’t want her to know what an ogre he could really be sometimes.

      And clearly, by his remark to me, I can add “incredibly selfish” to his list of faults. He may have told her all sorts of things about me (presenting only my faults) (are you paying attention here, Other Woman???), but he sure didn’t let her see HIS faults!

      I think this is part of what is meant by “affair fog”. The cheaters only see what they want to see and/or what they are shown or told. There is another whole side to it all, but they only allow themselves to see the good sides of each other, and the bad sides of their betrayed spouses.

    • Other Woman

      Kathy,

      I’m sure your H didn’t tell you all these things about him when you first meet him or did he? Have you read the postings from empty and numb? Sounds like your marriage and why if he is this way would you want him? Nagging him about the laundry hasnt worked for you has it? I wasn’t under the illusion he was “perfect” just that we connected and I fell in love with him and he with me. It is very hard ending the emotional affair, it is hard seeing him at work and knowing he isn’t happy with her he made his choice and I respect myself enough not to call him or “run into him” if it wasn’t me it would have been someone else and if their marriage doesn’t work out who knows it may end up being me.

      I don’t understand why the wife would give up on the marriage so several years and then when someone sees the good qualities in him, then she wants him, she’s now willing to change and show some interest in him, take better care of herself.

      If she really cared about h why didn’t she do this before?

      • Robin

        OW,
        Have you stopped to consider, if you believe your affair partner is a worthwhile person, that he may seem depressed and avoiding contact with you because he is deeply ashamed and cannot bear to look you in the eye. If you you came into his life at a time when he was dissatisfied, and the attention and sex felt great…but then he realized that he was going to lose someone he really loved and shared a history and life with, AND DID NOT WANT TO, so he recommitted to her – how is he supposed to act around you? At some point, he had to face the fact that he had been using you to make himself feel good because if he really loved you, he would have left.

        It takes two to make a marriage. My husband’s main complaint was that I did not seem interested in sex, and I wasn’t interested in sex with a grouchy, critical withdrawn man. When he changed his behavior – when he reached out to me, indicated that he valued me, worked to spend time with me – everything about our relationship changed. While he is VERY happy with the state of our current relationship, it does not lessen the shame and guilt he feels about the affair. He really cannot believe that he took actions that devastated the person he loves most in the world and he cannot believe that he USED another human being simply to make himself feel better because he wasn’t willing to be introspective.

        If your affair partner’s marriage fails, he will still the same level of pain and guilt and shame – and they have nothing to do with nagging about the laundry or spitefully making the poor baby suffer because he had an affair. Unless he tells you that he cannot live without you, you will probably heal faster by accepting that he made the choice that he wanted to make, and that recovery from an affair is painful for everyone involved.

      • Broken

        When I read your first post it made me soooo incredibly angry. Then Kathy answered and answered again and she spoke for me so there was no need to WASTE my time on you…but this post takes the cake. You are an uninvited guest in their marriage. You have no business there. You only know what he tells you and EVERY relationship is seen through rose colored glasses at first. How about you marry and live with a man for 30 years. You bear his children, put him through grad school, move around the country for his career, nurse him when he’s sick, clean up his messes, comfort him when hes sad, do his laundry and a BIG HUGE yes you tell him to clean up after himself. That’s not nagging that is a marriage…that is reality….that is life. Then some W#$@E comes along like you and thinks that she is somehow entitled to this man. That their cutsie little relationship is what real life is all about. I don’t care if his wife is 300 lbs and lives in a bathrobe…it is still none of your business and shame on him for making it your business. His wife has earned the right to make choices for herself…you haven’t. Perhaps she is ill or depressed…perhaps he doesn’t support her….fact is it doesn’t matter. He is probably sickening sweet to you and answers all of your calls and texts and then goes home and has nothing left for his wife because he gave it all to you. He feeds your ego and you feed his and reality exists nowhere in that relationship. I have no sympathy for cheaters and the people who cheat with them. You are destroying a persons life…perhaps even a family and all you can think about is yourself and how “sad” he is. Boo hoo……

        • Survivor

          All I can say is HERE! HERE AND BRAVO. You said it all and there is nothing more to add. Thank you!

        • crying

          YES! Can I print this and send it to my guys OW? and him? I don’t even know the extent of thier relationship or if it has ended or ever was, but I know where his emotional energy is being spent and it is not with me. Yesterday he actually ridiculed my feelings by saying that he had to tell her they can’t hang out because I hate her. I don’t hate her. I think she is a disrespectful person because she is such good texty, lunchy buddies with him, yet she has never spoken to me even when I speak to her and I’ve seen her at his workplace hundreds of times….. even way before I knew they were even friends. I think that texting and calling a man in a committed relationship 10 times a day and not even acknowledging his spouse exists is inappropriate…..even if he has given her reason to believe I don’t matter. I knew he had a close friend at work and I knew her name, yet it wasn’t until I placed the face with the name that I realized she was the one woman of the 20 that he works with that has never become friends with me and actually physically had been looking down on me for at least a year each time I saw her. I never paid much attention because she was a stranger and insignificant. Imagine when I found out she has actually been in MY life this whole time. I understand that my guy has been struggling with some unhappiness in our relationship and I understand his attraction to her and don’t condemn him for that. But after telling him how I felt, he actually turned it into my problem and blamed me for making him like her more and sneak around because I am the one who is not understanding. And now he feels sorry for her because with all her other troubles with “being a single mom, and she has meltdowns at work, and she has a lot of issues right now and she cry’s alot & now I am making her feel bad”. BOO HOO! He didn’t even tell me where I stood in all of this, but he had the consideration to tell her….. does he tell her that I am at home having a meltdown and crying a lot? No, he tells her I am a mean, demanding person. Yet she’s “just a friend”.

          • Broken

            Please dont believe what your guy is telling you….please don’t accept the blame. You aren’t the one having an emotional affair …..he is. You aren’t pushing him to her he is doing it himself and blaming you…it eases the guilt and justifies the behavior. My H was also doing the same thing with a coworker. I couldn’t believe it when I found out who it was. She too would stare at me at parties and whisper to her friends when I looked her way. My head was so far buried in the sand I never even thought that about an affair possibility. In fact I had never heard of an emotional affair. He is cheating on you…..perhaps not with his body but with his heart. It is devastating and you have a long road ahead of you especially since he is still in that blame you…do what I want stage. I feel your pain. Be strong…you are worthwhile.

            • Cryng

              Thanks for the encouragement. I know it isn’t my fault. I don’t blame myself. I am generally a pretty confident person and very aware of my faults….. some of which are not actually faults but I know that he does not respond well to certain behaviours I have, yet lately I can’t control those behaviours for his sake anymore. I know he doesn’t like to be depended on too much for comfort because he is afraid of letting me down. But I really really need his comfort right now. I guess I am usually the strong one, maybe even controlling at times. But right now I feel very weak and need him for comfort even if he no longer loves me. He really is a person where this is actually too much to ask, especially when he feels like the reason for my distress. He also rejects comfort from me, not just because of guilt, but he has always suffered from depression and often does not feel he is worthy of anyones comfort. I think this is part of the reason that getting comfort and attention from somebody he owes nothing to can be so easily accepted.

              I know, I probably sound like I am being a door-mat. Don’t worry I have gotten angry. But I know him better than anyone. We have been together 11 years and he has always been a bit of a loner. I often wish he would go out with friends more, or make more friends or even flirt with girls. I say ‘girls’ in plural because that’s what I mean, there is no focus in that. This has focus – way too much. He is a very very very good hearted person and I truly believe he does not mean to hurt me. He has other issues that he is dealing with (or NOT dealing with) such as depression and low self worth, people with these disorders eventually have no energy to purely love and make a deep connection. So I know it is easier for him to give his attention to somebody who is feeding his ego rather than somebody who is draining it. He sees me as the one draining him. It is just too difficult to stand back right now, even though I know that is what he needs from me and is probably what will bring him back to me.

              You know, even IF I am overreacting and this is not what it seems. The thing that really kills me is that I told him how my perception of this is really really hurting me and he is disrespecting that. That is something I never expected from him. It is a horrible way for him to finally prove to himself he is worthy.

              Thanks for letting me talk to somebody. I don’t have any money to seek the therapy we need and a little embarrassed to talk to a friend. I also know what he would feel BETRAYED if I went to someone else for comfort.

        • Cryng

          …..and on a lighter note: The person who wants to attract him the most has become a puffy eyed, wrinkle faced, scraggly haired, frumpy old grouch because of all this.
          Thats the kicker!
          “Chipper, fun, happy, smiley me” has gone away right now and I am ashamed of that. But I’ll be back and sure hope he is around to see it.

          • Broken

            You put yourself down alot….no one would expect you to ever feel cheery and happy right now. I know how you feel though some days I just smile and act like I am happy when I want to wring his neck. Early on I decided I am not playing that game anymore. If I am having a bad day…I am not hiding it to spare him…he needed to see and feel the pain he caused me. It has been since August that I have been dealing with this and it has been only recently that I have come to the point where I feel I can’t continuously make him suffer. He is however trying really hard…your hubby isnt there yet. You have to do what is best for you and your relationship. Trust your gut feelings they are usually always right on.

      • Norwegian woman

        Other woman.
        Do you really think that he will not be moody, make you feel small and stupid, be egoistic, critisize you because you would have done it different? Did you think his wife knew all his traits when she met him and they fell in love? Don`t you think that she thought that he would be this lovely, fun, exiting person all his life? Like you think now?
        You ask why she wants him now that she knows these traits. I will have to ask you the same. Why would you want him when you know that he probably will be a moody ogre when you get to know him? Or do you REALLY think that YOUR loving arms and charming personality will make him a different man????
        The reason his wife wants him is that she, just like you, thought she had won the lottery. After years of ups and downs, children, bills and so on she KNOWS that he isn`t. But she also knows that NO OTHER MAN will ever stay perfect, fun and exiting. They have history, family and tons of tons of good times, true love and fun memories together. More than you have experienced with him. And probably never will. He also knows about all the love and fun they have had together, and recognizes that he probably never will recieve that kind of love again. The love that accepts his traits and bad sides. Because that kind of love only happens once. The first time you decide to bond yourself to another person ans start a family.
        He may be unlucky because of all the hurt he have done to his lovely, accepting wife. And everytime he sees you, he gets reminded of how stupid he was……. Have you ever thought of that?

        • melissa

          Well said, Norwegian woman.

      • Re-loved

        OW-

        She did do this before. He stopped showing her affection and telling her – INSISTING to her – that he loved her.

        Imagine affection and love being the water in an espresso maker. If that cap isn’t on tight enough, only a trace amount of liquid will come into the glass. The cap on his love and affection – towards his wife and in his marriage – was slightly loose. When you saw that, responding affectionately as a soft spot for him to land? That was you loosening the cap even more. You gave the water an outlet and it backfired as steam.

        He’s leaving you alone because he never wanted steam. He wanted espresso. And he feels like a shit for 1) Having a loose cap and not tightening himself, and 2) For letting you loosen his cap even more… all he got out of it was a drop of espresso and worthless steam. He regrets it.

        When a woman doesn’t feel loved, she still does all the same things she’s HAD to do before… but poorly. It’s done but the quality isn’t there. She stops ENJOYING taking care of him and his needs because he’s stopped showing her love and affection. My motivation for taking CARE of my husband is to return the love I feel. If I don’t feel it – or feel that he’s letting it go elsewhere – OF COURSE he’s going to feel neglected. I want him to feel what I do, just to remind MYself that he’s capable of feeling anything at all! Don’t for a second believe we stop caring before bringing it up to him. By the stop we stop making the effort, we’ve already talked the issue to death, hoping some spark of anger will ignite the discussion that NEEDS to be had and begged for him to pay attention… that this IS A BIG PROBLEM. He won’t address it and emotionally shuts down to us. This is crushing. We take his worth of us, as he presents it to us, and bury it inside. He doesn’t care about our feelings, we think, and begin to believe that what we feel doesn’t matter. That WE don’t matter. Why should we take care of ourselves? We’re worthless!

        And to him, this is his wife nagging and neglecting him and “letting herself go.” You, OW, are the soft spot to fall… to tell you “his side” when he still has blinders on about it, himself.

        This is why they feel shame. Don’t for a second think it’s about feeling ashamed for stopping the relationship with you. It’s shame about what they’ve done and the close call of who they almost became… because they were too proud to be vulnerable>open>affectionate with their wives. <—Who want nothing more than REAL emotions from their husbands, whether good or bad. To share theirs with him, good or bad… because even if those real feelings hurt, they are true. They are solid. Whatever they lead to will.be.the.truth. And that will be good, in the end, even if the process is almost unbearably painful.

        The Other Woman is a distraction from reality. Nothing but steam. No substance to it. In the end, there's nothing to show for it but pain. He burned himself with you on steam and it hurts… and he knows that, between himself and his wife, all the blame falls squarely on himself.

        The shame and guilt is regarding his own behavior. And you're nothing but a reminder of it. Nothing.but.that.

    • suziesuffers

      Big Mistake, I think Kathy has some valid points, that some of this is the “fog” of the excitement of someone new, although I think when you’re in this fog it’s hard to recognize it. I appreciate you’re honesty, as much as it’s difficult to hear that my husband too may be thinking as you do. Wishing he could be with the other woman, wishing he had known her first. So you are staying with your wife out of obligation? Because you love her and don’t want to see her hurt, but you’re not “in love with her” because those feelings have already been developed with the OW? How long has it been since you broke it off with the other woman? So you have alot more in common with her than with your wife? Did you ever have things in common with your wife? Can you try and do those things again with your wife to see if anything is rekindled? She may know you still have these feelings and that’s why she isn’t asking questions…she is fearful of the feelings you have for the OW. You sound like you are very open about the strong feelings you have for her, and she may not be ready to hear that you have given you heart to someone else and she may never be able to regain your heart and feelings. We all want to avoid the things we fear the most.

    • Kathy

      Other Woman,

      Of course he didn’t tell me all the negative things about himself when we first met. These are things you discover as a relationship develops. This is why affairs are really a fantasy, because you rarely see the ugly side of the person you are cheating with.

      It is working through all the negative things, it is accepting that person and loving them anyway (over 28 years in my case), that makes people grow and makes a relationship grow into mature love out of infatuation and lust.

      The very fact that the cheaters are looking for “perfection” because they are dissastisfied with their “imperfect” spouses assures that the affair will very likely die out in time. (You can disagree with me all you like, but the cheaters’ perceptions are very skewed, as they only see the “perfect” side of the other.) As soon as the other AP’s bad qualities begin to appear, the fantasy will unravel, as it did in the case of my H and the OW.

      I have read the postings from empty and numb. It does not sound quite like my marriage except to say that we are two very imperfect people. Why do I want him? Because I love him. Because he isn’t always this way. Because I have a history with him full of wonderful memories that the OW will NEVER have. I have two wonderful, grown children with him. You get the picture, I hope. The point I was trying to make, and which seems completely lost on you, is that in an affair, you don’t see the ugly side of the person. You only see what they want you to see. And that’s easy to do when you aren’t living life 24/7 with them, seeing all the good AND the bad.

      I learned a very long time ago that nagging him doesn’t work. In fact, I haven’t said a word to him in years about the laundry, or other things, because I’d decided to choose which things were worth disagreeing about, and which were things I could just take care of myself. Out of love for him I pick up his dirty socks and put them in the laundry, because I don’t want to be a nag. But I’m sure this isn’t something he would have told the OW…because then he’d have had to admit I’m not a nag at all. My point was….these were some of the things the OW did not have to live with, did not know about, and he didn’t WANT her to know about!

      Did you read the posts by Big Mistake as to why he may appear depressed? My H has told me how bad he feels for what he did to me. Guilt will do that to you. He’s getting better, but he sees now, and admits, it was a huge mistake and he never loved her. It caused him nothing but trouble at work, and I think a lot of it has been stirred up by the OW because she can’t let go.

      It is doubtful that he loves you, especially since he decided to stay with his wife and work out his marriage. If he looks depressed, it’s most likely because he feels like a jerk for cheating on his wife, and for having to see the pain he has caused her.

      You need to take a long, hard look at yourself, and find what it is that makes you want to ruin other people’s lives to satisfy your selfish desires.

      As for the wife giving up on the marriage, you couldn’t be more wrong. After many years of marriage, both partners can be guilty of neglecting the health of the marriage and each other. That doesn’t mean that she gave up until someone else saw his good qualities. Marriages have their ups and downs, and you are 200% out of line for taking advantage of the man’s “down” time.

      If you really thought there was trouble in paradise for the man and his wife, the best thing would have been to tell him that he needs to work out his problems in his marriage and then you should have totally, completely and utterly backed out of his life BEFORE the affair ever happened. Then, if they couldn’t work it out and he was SINGLE AGAIN, you could then see about maybe a relationship with him. But to take advantage of the situation and purposely try to destroy a marriage takes a special kind of selfish, cruel, heartless b*tch.

      If his wife now wants to take better care of herself and do all she can to save her marriage, and he wants to stay and work it out too…GOOD FOR THEM!!! You need to get over it and find someone single, as I said to you before.

    • Still Foggy but Clearing

      It is almost the one year anniversary of d-day and it’s been about 7 months that I’ve been reading this site. I think that Doug and Linda are setting a great example through their research and through their commitment to each other as well the commitment to this site.

      I’ve seen a lot of comments from betrayed spouses indicating that they wish the cheating spouse would open up more to them, give them an idea of what the hell they were thinking during the affair, and give them an idea of what they’re thinking now. One of the things that kept me coming back to this site was that not only were there comments from betrayed spouses, there were comments from the cheating spouses and the other men / other women as well.

      Recently, there have been a few people reaching out for assistance as they are struggling in the midst of the affair. Unfortunately, the anger and pain of the betrayed spouses sometimes appears to be an attack. Sometimes it’s even worse – I feel bad for some of the people that have come here for some wisdom and are met with hostility.

      I am not minimizing the pain that the betrayed spouses are feeling, but there may be layers of your spouse’s feelings, and even the feelings of the other woman or other man that you haven’t considered.

      I am the cheating spouse. It’s difficult for me to say that. Like many of you have expressed, I never thought that I would be the one that would end up in an adulterous affair. Parts of it took me by surprise. There was definitely a “thrill factor” that I never even thought would attract me, and so I was unprepared for it. As our friendship developed into an emotional affair, we drew lines in the sand and tried to not cross those lines. We were weak though and eventually we would cross the lines, until the affair was discovered. By that time, I felt like I was in love with the other woman, and she felt like she was in love with me.

      I betrayed my beautiful wife of 14 years – something that I committed to her that I would never, ever do. I now suffer the shame, guilt, embarrassment, and downright pain of knowing that I hurt the one person that I should never, ever have hurt. I feel so much ache because of the pain that I brought on to my wife, my children, the other woman, her husband, and their children.

      As much guilt and pain as I am feeling right now, I am still in the fog. If I were to be alone with the other woman, I don’t trust that I would make the right choices. I miss her so much, and I miss the feeling that I had when I was with her. I know that those feelings aren’t reality – I know that she and I probably couldn’t make it in a real relationship – and yet, the drive is so powerful for me to seek her out to be with her. There have been countless nights where I can’t sleep and I have the overwhelming urge to email her. I’ve resisted that temptation by coming to this website and reading the words of the betrayed spouses, reminding myself that my wife is feeling that kind of pain. (She doesn’t express it often to me – she’s valiantly and diligently working with me to save our relationship. Praise God!)

      For those of you that don’t believe in the “affair fog”, I’m gonna debate that and say that it does exist. I’m counting on it existing, because if it’s not an affair fog that I’m still struggling through, then I worry that it will never clear. I do have faith that it will get better though… that the longer I can withstand the “no contact” with the other woman, the more likely I will be able to get my heart and mind straight about what happened, learn from the experience, and keep it from ever happening again.

      Thank you to Doug and Linda and to everyone that participates in these discussions. You are helping a whole community of hurting people who have at least one common goal – they want to heal after an emotional affair.

      • Doug

        Thank you SFBC for the kind words and also for your contribution. As I’ve said before, I completely understand the pain and devastation that the betrayed spouses are feeling, and I know that there is a certain amount of disdain in their hearts and minds for other cheaters, but there truly is an opportunity for both sides to help one another. The BS can get another perspective and into the mind of the CS, and vice versa. After all, this is basically the premise that this whole blog was built on. As hard as it might be at times, lets try to hold off on attacking and try understanding each other instead. In other words, lets have a safe place for communication for both sides. It could be quite helpful in the end.

      • Roller coaster rider

        Still Foggy, my H also has said much of what you have expressed and I truly believe this is why I have hope for healing. I wish you the best.

    • Broken

      My last post was for the OTHER WOMAN

    • Kathy

      Doug,

      Of course you are right, and I’m sorry for attacking rather than trying to be understanding.

      Other Woman,

      I also apologize to you for going on the offensive. In the past I’ve been able to keep myself from replying to others who’ve admitted as much, but something about your story struck a nerve with me. Some of the things you said are so close to my situation, it’s frightening. It’s hard for me not to see a woman who admits to being the other woman as “stand-in” (for lack of a better word) for the actual OW in my situation. You are not her (I hope), and I’m not being fair to you in venting my frustrations on you.

      I think it takes a lot of courage for either of the cheaters to admit to that here, and I will try to learn what I can from those willing to put themselves out there, and I will try to be more helpful in my replies.

      • Doug

        Kathy, I am not singling you out in any way, shape or form. It just tends to be a common occurrence, which is also understandable. I appreciate all the contributions you have made and I’m sure that others have found them to be beneficial as well.

        • Kathy

          Thank you Doug. I guess I’ve been feeling guilty for my posts because I did realize I was taking out my anger on her. Thanks again. 🙂

      • Still Foggy but Clearing

        Kathy, my comments weren’t directed at you in particular. I actually wrote my comment a few days ago and only posted it today. Don’t beat yourself up – you are as entitled to your emotions as the rest of us here. We are all just struggling and trying to learn here. I wish the best for you, as well as “other woman”… I am particularly familiar with her struggles with trying to stay away from her affair partner and the pain and lonliness that she feels.

        • Kathy

          Thanks SFBC 🙂

    • Roller coaster rider

      I just re-read what Kathy wrote and it doesn’t seem like attacking to me. I would like Linda’s opinion on that. Her saying that Other Woman wanted to ruin someone else’s life may not be accurate, because that probably wasn’t really her goal but just by wanting the CS for herself it was evident that she didn’t really care about his family.

      • Doug

        RCR, Just so we’re on the same wave length, I was not referring to her comment or any comment in particular. It was a general response to Still Foggy’s. Thanks for your contributions!

        • Roller coaster rider

          I understand. Thanks.

      • Kathy

        I am always amazed at how clearly many of you see things. Maybe I’m just not to that point yet. For me, it feels personal, like the OW wanted to ruin my life. But you’re right, that probably isn’t accurate and it’s more likely that she’s just selfish.

        • roller coaster rider

          Kathy, I SO felt like it was personal, because when someone knows about the marriage and then refuses to respect that, it sure does seem like they’re trying to wreck your life. The other thing for me, too, was that (at least for a while) it hurt less to assume the responsibility was hers, not my husband’s

    • PTY

      @ Other woman: You are correct. We all put our best foot forward in any courtship. However, for various reasons, in an affair, this all seems to get intensified. You may want to look at his article: http://www.surprisedbylove.com/pdfs/Affair_Love_vs_Authentic_Love.pdf., by a counselor who committed adultery.

      As to wife not having wanted to work on the marriage before, how do you know this? If it comes from your MM, please be skeptical. It is easy in normal circumstances to blame the other. In an affair, I think it almost imperative. Otherwise, the guilt would be even more overwhelming. It seems many affair partners view the “downer” of going back home as proof that their love for the Affair Partner is real. I think it is the guilt, but who wants to admit that.

      Again, I think is best for all 3 of you (plus children, if any) for you to move on.

    • Other Woman

      Kathy,

      I apologize to you I hope you are not the wife but if you were I would say I’m sorry. I never meant to hurt anyone I wouldn’t wish this hurt and pain on anyone. I thought his marriage was over I feel in love and thought we would have a future together all I hear from friends are I told you so, co workers avoid me like the plague. As soon as he told me he wanted to stay with his wife that was it I was done. It doesn’t mean the feelings just go away it doesn’t mean I just stop thinking about him. I am just trying to figure out how on earth I allowed myself to get involved with a married man.
      I came upon tis website and it took along time for me to post but I had no where else to go

    • Bigmistake

      Suzie, Jessica, Kathy-thank you for helping me feel that I can be honest. Let me try to elaborate and answer your questions and clarify my situation. How did my wife find out? I told her. About Six weeks ago. Turns out she had a pretty darn good idea. Receipts in my pants, my car smelling like smoke (AP smokes), long hairs on my clothes from close contact. Why did I tell her? My AP & I gave a gift to a new grandmother at work. We shopped & picked out the gift together. We essentially stepped out of the shadows and acted like a couple. No one was surprised, we got some strange looks and while the AP was ok with it-I realized a new line was being crossed. As I began to pull away her son asked me if I would be at his birthday party. The AP’s husband works evenings and hers us lots of free time to spend together. I know her kids and like them a lot. I couldn’t be there for his party & another round of guilt hit me. Look who gets hurt? All I’m doing is hurting everybody who doesn’t deserve to be hurt.
      Am I still in the “fog?” Yes and no. I know the past two years have been wrong and while we progressed to handholding we never slept together. Were there/are there strong feelings? Yes. Do I understand we were stuck in infactuation mode, with no way to progress? Yes, I do. Just because the foundation is weak, doesn’t what you feel less real. During the last two years (how long the EA lasted) I completely changed. Many of my coworkers have commented on my complete personality transformation, I went from quiet and unobtrusive to a major promotion and an intregal part of our company. My self confidence and self assurance are new and I’m incredibly outgoing instead of bookish and sitting by myself at break times. I didn’t see it at the time, but I changed outwardly for the better. Inwardly I’m a lying, cheating, selfish dirtbag.
      About two and a half years ago I found out some secrets about my wife. Things that she said about me to a “friend” and an inappropriate secret. And no she didn’t have an affair, but I opted to hid the fact that I knew. We didn’t talk about it and I should have. I let it eat at me and she never spoke to me about something she should have been able to share. I know what my catalyst was and I don’t blame my wife-this was my decision and I understand nobody is perfect (now). I am rekindling and we talk and we do have things in common, what we don’t have in common are things that I enjoy doing with her, because they make her happy. Like roller skating-I can’t skate, she loves it, so we’ve been going. I choose my wife not out of obligation, but because she deserves to loved for who she is.
      Did I consider leaving her? Six months ago I packed up my stuff one day while she was at work. I was close… The boxes weren’t unpacked until four weeks ago. My daughters were freaked for a few weeks-I said I was making more room by rearranging my stuff, no one bought it of course.
      How did I tell the AP? I told her I couldn’t be friends anymore, that I like her too much and that maybe under different circumstances we would have been friends (I’ve always been friends with women over men), but we’ve never been “just friends.” I gave her my copy of that same titled book, Not Just Friends” and closed my Facebook account. My wife wants to tell her husband & probably will.

    • Jessica

      Big mistake,
      Thank you for being honest and answering my questions. It gives me some insight and it’s less painful to hear the answers from you.
      When you were thinking of moving out was it so you could be with the AP?

    • suziesuffers

      Wow….Big Mistake, thank you for your honesty. I guess I’m still mixed about your response in staying with her out of “obligation”. You state you’re staying with her not out of obligation, but because she deserves to be loved for who she is. I agree she does deserve to be loved for who she is, but can you do that if you still have strong feelings for someone else? Can you “truly” be in love with her….or do you love her out of familiarity, and having something is better than the risk of chancing an affair continuing, since you and the OW would both have to divorce your spouses, and then take a “chance” that you were still compatible enough to pursue a committment to each other. I hope I’m not pushing for too much, but since many of the CS’s are somewhat distant about the truth, and that seems to be the missing piece for us. As much as we all want to save our marriages, there is an element of fear that this might be a “charade” that our husbands have come back to us only because of their shame and guilt…and seeing the pain they created in someone they loved at one time…because I don’t want that kind of pity love, no matter how much pain this creates. I don’t want someone to “pretend” they love me in order to minimize their guilt for the pain they created. I do deserve to be loved for who I am….just as your wife does, but I don’t want to be taken for a fool again, falling for the lies. The first was lies about the affair..now it may be lies about the reason he wants to make this marriage “work”…is it more to relieve his guilt and shame, or is it truly because he knows I am the one he has truly loved and wants to rectify the “big mistake” he made… (no pun intended…lol) Once again Big Mistake, I thank you for your honesty, as difficult as it may be to be in the mind of the CS when he is still in the fog, it gives us more knowledge about what we are really up against in surviving infidelity…..and protecting our marriages in the future if they do survive.

      • Doug

        suziesuffers, great comment, I was conveying the same sentiment to Doug last night. We all deserve to have a spouse who loves us, who is here for all the right reasons. It has taken me awhile to come to this place, but I want a lasting, intimate love. I know that someone cannot give this to me if their heart is somewhere else. I know that in the beginning the cheater is very confused about their feelings however with time they need to figure out where their heart is. Linda

      • roller coaster rider

        I appreciate you saying what I wanted to express to my H this morning. I feel like I’ve lost my mind. I am choosing to believe, but sometimes I just can’t get past the pain and sorrow. My brain doesn’t work well either and it’s kind of scary. I lost my wallet in my own house, too, and that is freaking me out.

    • Jessica

      Linda,

      That is exactly how I. Feel about it, I keep wondering is he here for the right reasons? and why didn’t my H just leave? Why if they are so unhappy that they create this secret life that they don’t just leave? Does Big Mistake stay because he knows it will never work with the AP?

    • Saddenned

      Jessica,

      I personally think they realize that the “newness” will wear off and eventually reality hits. They will have similar problems with the AP. When you live day to day with someone, problems will arise and you will get in the rut. My H did the same thing and I often wonder why he stayed and he says he loves me and he didn’t know how much. His EA didn’t go that far, but the lies and betrayal was there. Choose to believe if you want to continue the marriage. Trust and have faith in God.

    • Jessica

      Saddened, thanks I have released some of the pain to a higher power it was too overwhelming

      @the Other Woman
      what makes you think he was faithful to you? Every night he came home to me, every weekend he was with me, every holiday and family event he was with me. When he was sick I took care of him.
      Say he did leave me for you, would you ever trust him?
      How could you respect someone who would leave his wife for you just because she might have gained a few pounds after having 3 kids and going thru lifes changes? if someone is so shallow that all that matters is looks then you can have him, your looks will fade too, everyones does….

    • Bigmistake

      I wasn’t going to leave to be with my AP. I was so completely out of our marriage mentally, I just didn’t see a point in continuing. I’m glad I stayed-I think leaving would have been something I couldn’t take back. We have along road ahead but I won’t quit on us again. I think that’s what am EA is. Emotionally giving up on your marriage.

    • Broken

      Bigmistake…Why did you emotionally give up? Was it intentional or something that spun out of control? Curious for my own reasons. Also I was wondering why when someone is in that position that they don’t just stop and talk to their spouse? Did you think about your spouse when you were cheating on her? Not being mean…again just want to know for myself. Thanks

    • Jessica

      @broken, thanks for asking questions above and hope you are doing ok

      @Big Mistake
      Thanks for your honesty. When you packed to leave did your AP know your plans? What was the timing in deciding to stay and ending the EA? Was it at the same time? Or had you already decided to stay but had a hard time letting go? Also I don’t know if your wife does this but I do, I bring up her name and ask questions, how does it make you feel? Does this remind you of the AP and bring up good memories and wishful thinking or do you see the pain it brings to your wife.

    • Bigmistake

      I was’t planning to leave for my AP, I was beginning to fully understand my actions and their affect on my family. I didn’t tell my AP I was going to leave, we never discussed leaving our spouses. Again, for me it wasn’t about venting about my marital problems to another woman. So many people do that. I think they spin that yarn to make themselves out to be a victim-they want attention. Was my marriage perfect? Is anybody’s? Is it a valid reason or just an excuse?
      I did complain to some extent, so did she, but it was never the crux of our relationship. Both our spouses early on told us the friendship was too close; it made them uncomfortable and they wished us to not spend time together. We turned it on them, “don’t you trust me? We’re just friends.”
      I guess you you could say I made the decision to stay with my mind, not my heart. However, once I made the decision and spent time focusing on my wife (used some long neglected vacation time) and didn’t see or talk to the AP I could more clearly see the woman I love and have been taking for granted. The EA is truly like a drug and the feelings of “love” you feel around the AP are hard to let go.
      Why don’t your spouses leave? So many people have affairs but go back to their spouse. I think they feel taken for granted, theyare taking you for granted and eventually communication shuts down. Think about this-if they truly love their AP, why is so much of the affair talking a out the marriage? It’s a selfish action, but the thoughts behind it are of the spouse they miss right in front of them.

    • Saddenned

      Bigmistake,

      So what you are saying is, you missed your spouse and the attention you got from her, so that is why you pursued an EA (assuming that is what happenned, sorry if I am wrong). My husband re-connected with an old school friend via facebook and they started to talk on the phone, text, etc. This went on for two weeks before he came clean and changed his number and got off of facebook. We are moving forward, went through marriage counseling and I no longer take him for granted. My question is, I guess am I still competing with an illusion of someone else? He tells me he loves me and didn’t know how much he did, but I worry a lot about “someone else”. I am 99% sure there is no contact ( the only reason I am not 100% is because I am still leary, only been 9 1/2 weeks since D-Day), but I still worry, not about her as much, but if someone else catches his eye. I really want to hear from someone with the shoe on the other foot because I want to make sure we move past this and I don’t dwell.

    • Roller coaster rider

      Big Mistake, thanks again for the enlightening comments. Maybe that brings us back to Linda’s original thought here, that the BS cannot do a whole lot to stop the affair (pray??) because until the lightbulb goes on, the CS just can’t really be persuaded. I do think, however, that the BS has a responsibility to himself/herself to refuse to accept unacceptable behavior, to have reasonable boundaries, and for me, having a third party involved in my marriage was/is not an option AT ALL.

      • Brian

        This is what I have been struggling with… where to draw the line. At what point do I say “enough’s enough” and call it quits. I’ve tried to stay strong for our boys and our marriage but last night she said she was going out to eat. I asked with who and she said the AP, not even trying to pretend otherwise. Later, I went by his house and her car was there and the lights were off. So the EA has become a PA. This is only days afer our first couples session where she told me she was going to back off from contacting him. What choice do I have but to initiate divorce. She has no interest in being with me other than to help raise the kids, upkeep the house, and provide financial support. Hard to stay strong when she’s showing me no respect by blatantly pursuing the affair. I keep reading that affairs dont last but how much self-respect do I have to lose before it ends, if ever?

        Enough’s enough…

        • debbie

          Divorce is not your only option. That only invites ‘other’ pain. You can set boundaries tho. Have you read “Surviving the Affair” by harley? He sets out ways to do that using tough love.

          • Brian

            I have not read that but I will. Thanks.

            We talked over the weekend. She insists they did nothing but watch tv. Still insisting just friends. Reminded me that we have only been to one couples session and she wants to continue. She also mentioned maybe we could go out on a date this week. I told her I’d think about it. As far as boundaries, I told her a married woman going to another man’s house is totally inappropriate. She replied that since it’s just friends, it’s the same as if she went over one of her girlfriends. I totally disagree of course.

            She still says she doesn’t know what she wants, needs more time. She said maybe it’s a MLC or some hormonal thing. I told her she should move out to get the space she needs but she said she’s “not going anywhere”.

            I have an appt with my lawyer this Thursday. My intention was to initiate divorce but now I’m having second thoughts. Once the ball starts rolling there’s no turning back. Don’t want to be in too much of a hurry…

            • debbie

              My H insisted the “just friends” thing for a long time too. Arghhh. I left “Not Just Friends” by Glass sitting around! He did finally understand that their ‘friendship’ was inappropriate and not so special.

              Her MLC comment was interesting. Has she seemed depressed in the past few years? Doing some other things ‘out of character’? My H suggested this early on too. If it is MLC, you may want to handle things a bit differently. Check out the info on it here: http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc.html .

              As for the divorce, you can do that anytime. DON”T do it in hopes of controlling her or getting her to change her behavior. It is good though, to know your rights and how to protect yourself.

    • Jessica

      Big Mistake,
      Did your AP talk to you about your wife and her husband and how wrong it was what you and her were doing? After the EA did your AP have any remorse for her part in the EA? Did she contact your wife and express any remorse? Had your AP had affairs prior to this?

    • Bigmistake

      Saddened-I know for me I absolutely looked forward to any contact with the OW. It’s nice to share those stories your spouse has heard over & over with someone new & I honestly didn’t think I was doing anything wrong. I knew I had acrush on her and told her so, she had a crush on me too, but what does that matter if your “just friends.” An affair involves sex, right? She felt like the what-could-have-been. The first couple of weeks after breaking up I felt like I had given up on something that could have been great. It took a couple weeks for her flaws and my stupidity to sink in. There was an illusion to contend with, I married my first love-I have no real experience with heartbreak, but to give my AP was like breaking my own heart. Telling my wife broke hers. That broke my heart all over again. I’m who she always turned to for comfort & I can’t comfort her in this situation; it made for many sleepless nights and anxious conversations.
      Jessica-my AP has not yet spoken to my wife. My wife has been by the office and when the OW sees us she averts her eyes and keeps walking. My wife tenses up and calls her names under her breath, but no confrontation or communication has occured yet. My wife did send a detailed message to my AP’s husband & offered to speak to him. She hasn’t heard from him in return. Neither of us had an affair before and I don’t believe either of us was looking to have one-we just had so much in common it was hard not to talk to each other.
      I do want to thank all of you. I’m a CS and will wear that brand for the rest of my life, I really appreciate the oppurtunity to express myself here. It helps sort my own thoughts and I feel like there is light at the end of the long dark tunnel I choose to walk down. I hope my answers can be of some assistance to you all. Feel free to keep asking.

    • Saddenned

      Big Mistake,

      I appreciate you honesty. I think you and your wife will be okay. I know my husband just wanted someone to “bat an eye at him”. I wasn’t doing that anymore, “guilty as charged. I was caught up in life. It took two to lead him down the path of of destruction and it is taking two to bring us back. I am deeply in love with my husband and I know that the guilt is a hard pill for him to swallow. Your post gave me strength to move forward. Good luck to you and your wife. Remember, we are all human and no one is above mistakes. Don’t punish yourself for the rest of your life, rather learn from your mistake and move forward.

    • Jessica

      Brian,
      You have to take care of yourself first. If it were me I would ask her to move out.

    • Jessica

      Bigmistake,
      Thank you for answering and posting here. It helps me to hear your answers I am trying to understand and make sense of something that had completely shattered me to my soul.

      While having the EA how did you treat your wife? Were you annoyed when she wanted time with you or did you make excuses not to spend time with her? When you were with your wife did you wish you were with the AP? Does anyone else in your family know about the EA? Have you thought about finding a new job? Your wife sounds like a very strong person to go to your work knowing so many people there know. How long has it been since Dday? What now are some of the flaws your AP has that you didn’t see before? Do you ever think that the AP is not trustworthy, to also do this to her husband and it sounds like she hasnt expressed any remorse for the EA unlike you but I could be wrong.

    • suziesuffers

      It seems I’ve heard alot of the “we had alot in common” from either the CS or BS talking about what their CS said. What does this really mean? Are there specific likes or dislikes that you had that were similar and your spouse did not? Did you spouse ever have these things in common with you? Did you really lose these things in common or did they just get lost along the way. No….cheating does not necessarily involve sex…but I guess that does go along the lines that the CS feels that this is “just a friendship” and that justifies spending time with the OP and justifies the continued contact. Any time you invest more energy into a relationship with another person other than your spouse, it’s cheating. Suddenly you have chosen to “share” your initimate self with someone else you have betrayed your spouse. Of course, that may be where the “in love” feelings come, when someone becomes vulnerable to someone else. That may be why these EA’s are so dangerous. Vulnerability creates an immediate closeness….but because initially you are “just” friends you know you have very little to lose if you get judgement from this person….you have a spouse at home to fall back on, so you have the freedom to initially be very vulnerable without risk. Of course, showing that vulnerabilty to your spouse at times is “dangerous” in your mind because you want their approval and they also know you well enough that they could hurt you with information about yourself…they know what sensitivities you have and what buttons to push….the NEW person is just on their best behavior, like you, and everything looks rosy.

    • Brian Too

      Hey everyone, you are all a great asset to those who visit the site. I have been visiting now for over 4-weeks and I have learned so much more. All these great tools I have from this site and other publication have made me a much stronger person, better father, and understanding husband.
      I too have an EA story that is in so many ways, similar to all the others, but in some small ways is different. I am a middle aged father of 2. I met my wife when I was in 19 and married at age 25. I’ve been married over 21 yrs. I have had a good marriage and was lucky to be brought up in a stable household. It is now going on 6 months since confirming my wife’s EA. She has been involved with this OM starting as friends for over 14 months. In the first 2 months I did all the classic wrong things, but have gained all the correct tools and help to gain confidence and understanding of this EA. I am on the right track and have gained so much self confidence and control of myself. I am a better person for my family and close friends. From time to time I still make bad choices, but with every bad choice I make two better choices the next time.
      Like all of your experiences, mine is close to that of Brian’s. I have (2) kids of my own. One is a pre-teen and the other is a young adult living at home. My wife tells me that she knows this is her problem and must get the OP clear from her mind before she can move on, or consider staying in a marriage, if she can even do that. The problem is, this roller coaster ride of emotion she is on, is not helping her stability. She has gotten more subdued and less open in the past month. Her circle of close people is very small (2-3) people that she talks to. My family knows nothing and her family knows much. She has a large family of 7 brothers and sisters. At a young age her family was very dysfunctional, which may be the root cause for her depression and problems now.
      Anyway, I am very close to my son whom is the young adult. It seems like we are even closer now, than before the EA. He knows what is going on and has had personal contact with the OM before him or I were aware of the affair. He is very disappointed in his mother and what she is doing. He has recently opened up to me, showing his hurt feelings regarding his mother’s actions towards him, his little sister and myself. His mother has, for simple words, has given up on him and says she is done raising him, which is so un-motherly. We all know you continue to raise and teach your kids throughout their life. She is also trying win over her daughter by spend alone time with her and not as a family unit. When my wife is gone visiting this OM in a different city for a day, I spend a lot of time with my son and daughter alone and as a 3 unit family. I am very genuine and close to my daughter. I love doing sporting activities with her and am her coach for baseball. It was just recently, when her mother did not show up to her game, because her mother was with this OM. She had an amazing game and the team won and she was so excited. My son was there also. Her mother had no intention of coming. This really bothered my daughter and she called her mother up that night and just gave it to her. I could hear the lies just pouring out of my wife. My daughter of 10 was reading right past them. I don’t know what to do. I am not sure even considering telling her or if any information will really help. I am afraid she is figuring it out on her own. I am also worried it will have great affect on her and what she thinks of her mother later on. I have had many single therapy sessions for myself and hope to get my children in which I know will help. My son is willing, but not sure of my daughter. I’ve come so far and so long. I have so many tools now, but this one is the hardest. I would love to hear from you.

      • Brian

        Brian Too,
        Sorry to hear about your troubles. Like others here have told me, be strong for yourself and your kids.
        I am wrestling with the same issues. My wife also comes from a large family with 7 brothers and sisters who have many issues and have certainly affected my wife. She has in many ways distanced herself from her family and our marriage, looking for new relationships to find happiness rather than looking inside herself for answers. It’s a journey I cannot help her with I’m afraid. All I can do is try to be a good husband and father and hope that she can see the light… that what has been so right for over 20 years can still be so. It’s not easy and some days are better than others, but I’ll keep trying for now. I need to know I gave it my best shot.
        Again, we need to be strong and try to be positive and upbeat. It makes all the difference and could help bring your/my wife back to the realization that the marriage is worth saving.
        Take care.

        • Brian Too

          Brian, thanks for the support. I have grown very strong for myself and for kids. I think the hardest was my coping skills. This also I have learned to overcome. I have always done the best I know how, but have always said ” I only have control over myself and not that of the other person” I have the Serenity Prayer in my office for extra support. As you have mentioned, being a good father and husband, despite the EA helps tremendously. It keeps us focused on what we can do to make things better. Hopefully the other part will happen from time and patience. You also mentioned that your wife is looking outward to find happiness and thus the EA. I was told by a close friend that you need to love yourself before loving others or being capable of finding true love. I know my wife does not love herself or what she looks like. It might even be the constant verification she is recieving from the OP that is getting her by from day to day, but this is only temporary. I know when she truley has to make a self reflection and look at her self deeply, she resents this. I know because I have been working out, taking care of myself, keeping up the home, spending time with th kids, and moving on. I think my W sees this and it bothers her, because she has to look at herself. Does you wife also have similar behaviors?
          I know it will be a long journey and I am ready for the challenge, becasue I am the only one that my kids have that is trying to keep the family together. They are counting on me to be strong. I think I have turned the corner, at least for myself and await more challenges to life. Brian, be strong and healthy.

    • PTY

      @suziesuffers: Great post. I see that the OM/OW is often seen as a “great listener”. Of course they are; they aren’t the ones being trashed, they aren’t the ones who have made the CS unhappy, yet. I think the “yet” part deals with the fog, bubble or whatever you want to call it. That is one of the reasons affairs dont’ work as real relationships. So much of it is based upon attacking the primary relationship. When the CS unhappiness can’t be blamed on the BS anymore, then the next person in the blame game is the OM/OW. The problem may be that the CS is just an unhappy person.

    • Jessica

      Brian,
      Since he is such a good friend what would she say if you invited him over to your place? Have you met him?

      • Brian

        Yes, I know him… he’s been cleaning our furnace every year for the past 5-6 years which is how they met. I know where you are going with this, but I doubt she would agree to having him over and I would not feel comfortable with it even though they are “just friends”. Maybe if he were to come by with his girlfriend but not just him. My wife has never met the girlfriend btw, which speaks volumes…

        • Lori

          My partner kept saying over and over that they were ‘just friends’ too and that their relationship was purely platonic, so I suggested the four of us go out for dinner together – which we did. Her husband sat next to her and my boyfriend sat next to me and we had a good enough time. That is, until later when I found out that they were texting each other back and forth about the boring conversation that her husband and I were having and my boyfriend said to her that ‘he should be sitting next to her and not me.’ OUCH… that sting never goes away. Turned out they were planning to go out alone a couple of weeks later, alone for dinner on a Saturday night and I thought it was SO inappropriate – for many reasons, not just because I was jealous and wanted to be included but I knew that they were involved in an EA, and it was a Saturday night and that would have left me without anything to do. He wouldn’t change his plans no matter how much I asked or complained or stated that it was wrong. So, I sent her husband an e-mail that followed up our previous dinner and I thanked him for a great dinner and suggested that we do it again real soon. I then stated that I thought it was too bad that our partners weren’t letting us come along with them on their dinner on Saturday night. Needless to say that their dinner didn’t happen and they declared a new nickname for me. Yes, my boyfriend and his EP started calling me BB or Bunny Boiler because they thought my behavior was outright psycho and crazy and that I was the one being irrational and crazy (like Glenn Close crazy). I write about these stories in disbelief that this happened to me, because it all sounds so immature given our age; however, the EA clouded his judgment and his behavior. I’ve written my story before on this blog, and I continue to read here for insight and help from others…. And every once in a while I’ll tell a part of my stories in hopes that you all who are experiencing similar things can know that you are not alone. Unfortunately, my boyfriend and I didn’t make it, and we ended up breaking up. I was with him for 4 years and it still is very painful for me. That was the first time I ever was betrayed by anyone, and we were planning on being together for life. I fell in love with his 2 daughters and thought that we were going to be a family for many years. Now he’s not allowing me to maintain communications with the 2 girls and my life is shattered. I have nothing but painful stories that an EA caused. Ironic, I’m the furthest thing away from being a BB – but during that time period where I was trying to get the truth, I felt obsessive tendencies that consumed my actions. It wasn’t pretty! There is nothing pretty, sexy, beautiful, cool, appealing, attractive, or fun about an EA. It downright S U C K S for everyone involved!! Good luck!

    • melissa

      Brian
      Hang in there. You’ve been badly hurt and are weary but it’s early days. First of all, your W has agreed to go to counselling, that’s a very positive thing. Secondly, she says she’s not going anywhere. There’s probably no point asking her why at the moment but hold on to that question.

      As to the ‘just friends’, we all know how devastating that sort of relationship is but in her mind, at the moment, she DOES believe it’s nothing. It took my husband months to reluctantly admit that his behaviour was inappropriate. Saying it’s nothing or ‘there was no relationship’ (in my H’s case) is a defence mechanism against the enormity of what they have done.

      Keep safe.

      • Brian

        Melissa, Debbie,
        I’m trying to give her the benefit of doubt that it is just friends at this point. She’s been reaching out to her female friends for years and they haven’t really been there for her… frustrating for her. So I can see how she values any friendships that she has, but she seems blind to the dangers of opposite sex friendships. I do understand the value of having a network of friends… besides the friendship of husbands and wives, but its a “slippery slope”…

        There have been some times over the past few years when she has seemed down and I became worried, but they didn’t last. I wish we had sought counseling then and maybe this could have been averted. I will check out the link, Debbie. Thanks!

        And I agree that I should not be in such a hurry for divorce and I will give her more time. I hate being so uncertain! Not fun.

        Thanks your responses and for thinking of us…

    • michael

      Brian,
      My wifes affair continued after the day she first told me she was talking to an old boyfriend. She blamed the problems in our marriage on me and told me how unsatisfying or relationship has been. She went on to say that he was just a friend and that he was helping her through a bad time.
      She continued to lie about what she was doing and that she never even saw a picture of him while they were texting. All lies that I later discovered. All part of her plan.
      On december 28 2009 I decided to send an email to his text phone to find out what I was up against. (You can read that exchange on my blog). She swore at that point that she was done with him. (Lie). I caught her on Dec 31 messaging on facebook. Then later on in 2010 I found out that she had continued for another couple of months at least.
      I hope that helped a little. I don’t know if you have spoken with him, but if I were you I would at least tell him what he’s doing is affecting your marriage. Is he doesn’t respect that, you will know how good of a Friend he is.

      • Brian

        I’ve wanted to confront him, tell him how much he is affecting our relationship, but my lawyer told me to avoid any contact with him as it could get me in trouble legally.

        She also tries to blame things on me… how I didn’t want to do things socially, etc. I admit there were some times when I worked 60-70 hour weeks all I wanted to do was relax at home, but 99% of the time I did want to go out and socialize and I always enjoyed myself. I think she’s just trying to justify her behavior. I’m not saying I haven’t contributed to where we are now but still its no excuse to go outside the marriage for an EA.

        She mentioned going out together this week, I said I’d think about it. There’s so much tension between us lately, I’m afraid it would be a bust… we used to be so comfortable with each other. I guess we have to start somewhere…

        • melissa

          Brian
          Your lawyer is right, confronting the OM will not help and you might hear things you don’t want to hear (possibly harsh things that were said by your wife in ‘the fog’).

          We are all guilty at times of not putting our marriage first but , as you say, this is no excuse for a W/H to seek solace elsewhere and destroy their marriage. Please don’t take the blame personally, it’s just a way to avoid responsibility and it will take time for this to pass. In a fit of rage , my H told me I was lazy and boring when trying to blame me for his EA. When I remind him of these words, he doesn’t even remember ever saying them (!!!) but he does praise me a lot more these days and is much more appreciative of what I do and who I am.

          However, I find it encouraging that your wife wants to go out. I know it’s hard for you but if you can find some peace within yourself to go out with her, not mention the EA and try and reconnect in any small way possible (just holding hands, watching the world go by), it’ll be a huge step forward.

    • Brian

      If she still wants to go out I will agree to it, try to have a good time. Holding hands would rock my world…

    • Broken

      Brian….Melissa is right,,you should try and go out if your wife is willing. It is these little thing things that will bring you back to where you use to be. A shared joke or story…a place you use to go with good memories. Try hard to not talk about the bad stuff during this time. My H and I go out every Thursday and have since 1 week after I found out. It was awkward at first and I felt angry and distant but it absolutely helped.

      I still have a real problem with the fog thing. Sometimes I think it is just an excuse but then again I have never been the CS. Still don’t take what they they personally. Much is said to justify the behavior and ease the guilt.

      Glad your giving it a go this week and put a hold on the divorce thing. If nothing else you can say you did everything possible to save your marriage for your kids.

      Good luck Brian. Know that we all feel your pain and you’re not alone.

    • Saddenned

      Brian,

      I agree with Broken and Melissa. Give it a go. Don’t hold on to “what is” and focus on “what you want it to be”. I get upset and wallow in my own pity and then I remember what I want and I do stuff to better our situation and it ALWAYS has a positive outcome. Maybe a small thank you or wow you didn’t have to do all of that. My husband gets real excited when I get into his home projects and do little stuff to help out, it motivates him to keep “engaged” in us. It is a team effort, BOTH has to work at it. I am still learning this myself. Marriage is not about indebtiness, but rather working together and the pleasure being making the other person happy.

    • Brian

      Knowing that she is involved with someone else, the “what is” as you put it, is definitely getting in the way of my feelings for her. I will try to focus on “what I want it to be” if she still wants to go out.

      I’ve been giving her space, backing off for a while now so it’s a bit difficult for me to put myself out there again. Got to remember that we were great not so long ago and that it’s worth the effort… for our marriage and our family.

      • Saddenned

        Brian,

        That is definitely hard and I cannot say that I know what you are going through because the fact of the matter is, my H’s EA was over before I knew it happenned. The “what was” hurts me though. The fog as it is put on this site is definitely an explanation. My H called himself ignorant when he came to his senses. I try to look at the positive outcomes of the whole situation. I have re-prioritized my life. My focus is now family before self and work. To be quite honest, I cherish those moments. Before I personally was so wrapped up in achievement and work, that my family got whatever was left. I have done a lot of soul searching since this all took place. I still have rocky days, rocky moments, but I have good moments too. I cherish every “I love you” or every nice gesture like I did when we were dating and I laugh more. The fact is, you know your wife and what makes her “tick”. Do something nice for her, make her smile. Have you seen the movie “Fireproof”. Great example. It is a must see for anyone who has been through or is going through an EA.

    • Bigmistake

      Jessica-
      Sorry I didn’t answer sooner, rough weekend.

      During my EA I was very distant from my wife, from my whole family. I spent a lot of time alone in my room either excercising or just staring off into space. When asked what I was thinking about I always responded, “nothing.” I wasn’t wishing I was my AP, but rather looking forward to the next day when we would see each other again. I had a very short temper, got irritated easily.
      As I began to realize I was in a relationship, I started having trouble sleeping and focusing at work. That made me more irritable. I told my wife everything at the end of March.
      Do I see my APs flaws. Yes. She is very selfish and I was not her first affair. She had a child with one and is on her second marriage right now. Did I care during the EA? Heck no.
      I am desperate for a new job. My AP and I are expected to go out on the road together for onsite trainings. We are steam of two and I can’t get out of it. I don’t want to spend two weeks in a hotel with her and my wife dreads the idea. I need a new job by Juneand we cannot afford for me to be unemployed.
      Do any of our family know? My mother-in-law knows something is wrong. I skipped a family vacation to be home alone with my AP and wife hinted it was due to trouble in our marriage. My wife has abest friend to listen, unfortunately her friend is pro-divorce, hence my rough weekend.

      • roller coaster rider

        Oh, Bigmistake, thank you again for helping shed light on what is going on in the head of the CS during an affair. I can’t think of anything worse than the upcoming scenario at work for you with the AP and extended time together, not just a hotel but travel etc. and no wonder your wife is freaking out. You say you cannot afford to be unemployed but I don’t think your marriage can afford for you to have to be with the AP like this…there just has to be another option.

    • Broken

      Does anyone feel this way? My H is the CS. He is doing everything right to repair our marriage. Why is then that I still feel so incredibly pained. The last 2 weeks I have felt like I did the weeks just following discovery. I cant live like this. Is it possible that what he did has destroyed the feelings I had for him? Some days I still love him and others I hate him. I feel like I need to go away for awhile. Its been 9 months now. Should I just be patient? Should I leave? Its like I went 10 steps forward and 100 steps back. I dont get it

      • changedforever

        I understand you – I am 7 1/2 mths past DDay and share your feelings. I have not been thru the year ‘anniversaries’ yet as Linda mentioned sometime ago….i always tell myself if i can get to Chirstmastime (past ALL the anniversaries I have ahead of me,) I think I’ll be okay. I savor comments from this site from those ‘ahead’ of me…and ahead of us… I’ll hang in if you will…

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      YES! My H is doing everything I have asked and now even more this weeken a real nice weekend planned away for the two of us! And now even more triggers are coming up the pain isn’t there but the thoughts are still there I found out July 27 and now I wonder can I make it to that date.2

    • Jessica

      Last night at my sons’s baseball game I could tell the coach was irritable i am team mom so I called the coach after the game. He was talking about some issues on the team. Later he sent me abtext that he was also having some personal problems with his wife, immediately I texted him back that he needs to discuss these with her and show her he cares about her. This morning it got me thinking what if he reached out to another person who started a whole different dialog about what a wonderful great person they were just feeding his ego is this how the EA start? Is this how the E A started with my H? I don’t think he reached out to complain about our marital issues because he’s pretty closed about that but I do believe she stroked his ego and from what he told me she told him was how great he was etc.

    • Jessica

      This has been a week of great conflictions what if I reached out to him? Unlike Big mistake wife I had no clue, how could I have known last June 6 when he said he was boating with a friend bob he really went to lunch with her? How could I have known last June 26 when he said he went to an industry picnic with the guys he went with her? So now here I am taking medicine building a wall around my heart because I don’t ever want to feel this pain again I haven’t quite forgiven him and don’t trust trying to make some sort of sense out of this insanity. He is really trying is it enough?

      • Broken

        Jessica…I feel the same way. I had no clue either and I relive those 18 months thinking the same things. Was he where he said he was….I will really never know even though I ask it over and over. During football season we go to our sons college games and my H always left during halftime to “tailgate more with our friends” turns out from our cell phone records he was calling her. Now at my son sgames if he leaves I feel full of anxiety and they will never be the same for me thanks to his selfishness. You put it just right…is them trying really enough?
        Its like those 18 months of my life were nothing but a lie. I equate periods of time with what he was doing and it isn’t fair.

        And Brian Too….I wish I could stop asking questions…and I hate those triggers. I have been having a hard week and my H said something that really hurt me last night. Then when I said I was hurt…he said I guess I have to sensor what I say sad I cant talk to my own wife. I just wanted to say well go talk to her then!!!!! But it truely sucks for him because”her” new facebook pic is with a new man. Funny he almost looks exactly like my husband and the guy is about 20 years her senior just like my H. Destroy 1 family move onto the next.

        Sad that we are left in ruins. Well I can only hope tomorrow is a better day. Tonight is our usual date night…I truely dont even want to be with him this week.

        • Brian Too

          Broken, Just remember, everything you did was done out of love and respect. We are only as good as our parents. As my therapist says” We are all generationally deprived” meaning: we only know as much as we learned from our parents and our surroundings. It doesn’t always mean it is 100% correct, but it is all we have. Like I say to my W, ” This EA had to happen in our lives” If it didn’t happen now, it would be in the future. This is the only chance we have to correct the deep problems that our CS has in their relationship with us. I know it takes two, but we have a chance to learn, use these tools, and get our relationship and marriages back better than ever. Some won’t work and that is “His Will” As we know it is hard and takes time, but we didn’t get to where we are right now, and look back with regrets. We have the opportunity to move forward and be better than we ever could have immagined.
          This OW that was with your H, has no clue. She is jumping from one relationship to the next without getting help. This is the person who needs therapy and counseling. Its funny now how we know so much more. If only we had these tools before marriage. I guess it is up to us to spread the word. I try and give positive advise to all the newley weds and young parents so they have a great future. Talking to all of you makes my problems look so small. Remember the small things and your day will be great. Things like waking up, breathing, a hug or smile from your kids. The simple things. Everything else is gravey. 🙂 Have a great day!

    • B

      Stopping an EA seems damn near impossible sometimes. My biggest problem which I’m sure others have is that no matter how much my wife seems to be trying, I still have moments where I wonder what she is doing or who she might be with. It is like a freight train of thoughts barreling down on you. Amazing isn’t it? No matter how much you do for yourself, no matter how confident you become, one timy trigger can set you back to square one (at least momentarily). I’m taking care of myself, I’m not asking questions anymore, I’m just being the best husband I can be for me, the kids, and for us. That being said, I still wonder what she may be doing at various times during the day. Deception came so easy and happen so often, it becomes hard to believe it has been turned off. Just a thought.

      • Brian Too

        Hey B, Just remember the lies and all those hidden secrets will only hurt those that are keeping them. They cannot hurt you or your kids. They are only as sick as those who are keeping them. Sometimes the truth is hard and hurts, but will shine brite over all. Keep doing what you are doing. That is what I have, and know it cannot hurt to be true to yourself and your kids.
        Those triggers as you mentioned, are in all of us. Some just have a deeper hurt and are hard to close. Also, we all have to hurt and cry, its good for us. It brings out our emotions, vulnerability and shows that we are human. This will only make you stronger. Keep up the great work and don’t quit. We are with you mind, and he in spirtit.

    • Brian

      Our problem is my wife still insists it’s “just friends”. How do I stop the EA when according to her none exists? Do I give her an ultimatum? Or do I just let it continue in the hope that she will see the light? How can she respect me if I let her walk all over me?

      • Brian Too

        Hey Brian, You just tell her she is a married woman and married people don’t posses those feelings. We all have boundries and if someone lets another person into their life intimately or too close emotionally that is wrong. We all have vows when we are married, such as honor, respect, cherrish, and love before all. What would it be if we had none of these? We have to be morally correct and have some married life standards. Otherwise there would be chaos in all marriages. As we know, someone who is in an EA is not thinking clearly and thinks what they are doing is ok. It is up to the therapist to help them. They are the professionals. We just try and do our best. I hope this helps.

    • Broken

      Brian…I wish I had something thoughtful to say to help you to get your wife to realize what she is doing. Just hang in there is the best you can do. Follow Brian Toos advise…he seems like he has been where you are right now and I am sure hearing from another guy helps too. I feel a little hypocritical saying being strong when I am a puddle of mud this week but not always like this and it will get better. Take care.

    • Brian

      It does, Too. Thanks for reminding me of what should be obvious to me and her. We commit to each other to safeguard against such transgressions, no doubt. I’ve been walking on eggshells for too long I guess. Hopefully our couples counselor is up to the task. Thanks again.

    • D

      There is definitely a “fog.” My wife ended it numerous times, but it took his wife finding the emails to really make it final. Even then it was four months before No Contact was instituted. I couldn’t convince my wife to stop. Even coming to his office and trying to reason with him or later threatening to get him fired wasn’t enough. They both needed closure, to mourn the loss of not only an intimate relationship but a friendship as well. (Do you know how embarrassing it is to hear a 44 year old woman whine like a 16 year old girl? Wrap it up, Juliet. It’s over.)

      What surprised me was that it’s the aftermath of the affair that hurts more. I understand the seduction and excitement, the getting in over one’s head, the losing control and feeling responsible for the other’s feelings while still trying to be liked, to at least appear honorable and unselfish. But I thought that when it ended that would be it. Here I am, waiting with open arms, ready to take the whole hell of the affair into my heart for you, for us. Yet, you’re asking me to wait, to understand, to be patient while you grieve your loss? WTF is that about?

      The affair lasted 18 months. It’s been just over 14 months since DDay. There is happiness on the horizon, but she still has no clue what it was she asked of me.

      That fog is thick. I’m convinced that Stephen King’s The Fog was really about surviving the hell of a spouses affair.

    • B

      Brian-

      Try what I have tried. Keep your moments where you feel vulnerable and hurt to yourself. Don’t show them to your wife anymore. Instead, live your life and be yourself. She will begin to notice and she will take note. Doesn’t mean she will snap too right away, but it does mean she will have to look at herself and make a decision. When you are a shell of yourself, you give her all the excuse in the world to justify her behavior, but when you are strong and committed to making your home a happy one, she has nothing to do but look in the mirror and blame herself. That is what I’m doing and it just might be working. As sad as it sounds, you have to learn to play the game that never should have been played in the first place. It is hard, it can hurt, but from this point forward you have to ask yourself “What do I want out of this?” Then start acting on it and go get it. She will either come around and help you put it back together, or she will leave. Either way you gave it your best shot and can be happy knowing you weren’t the reason for any of it.

      • Brian Too

        B, You hit it right on the nose. I feel exactly the same way. Be better for yourself. Love yourself and be true to yourself. You can’t change people, places, or things, just youself. Doing this will only help to gain better results. This forces the other person to look deep at themselves. It will only get better for you. Keep up the good work and stay strong.

      • Brian

        Great advice, and this is exactly what I’ve been trying to do. Have to do better keeping my emotions to myself though. Most times I do. I try to make sure I’m upbeat at home and have fun with the boys, be the good father and husband I’ve always tried to be. It can only make things better… regardless of her decision.
        Thanks for the great post. I might print it to remind me…!

      • Melvin

        Agree with the B. Speaking from a male persepctive and being in the same boat. With the No Contact rule in effect and my attitude adjustment (showing her the sunny side of me), things have improved at home. There are still those bumpy roads from time to time. Trying to rebuild trust is now the hardest part as her job is very social and male-oriented. Be all you can be and let the chips fall where they may. I know, easier said then done.

    • Dazed

      I am wondering how many people here think that their spouses or partners were or are in a full blown mid-life crisis when the infidelity happened??? I think that my partner is a classic textbook case. He is moody, hides stuff from me on his phone and computer, is suddenly very concerned with his appearance, keeps pushing boundaries, has stated he feels trapped, etc. I have no actual proof of an affair or hook ups but his behavior is textbook for midlife crisis and infidelity. He talks about our future together, our goals but is insulted that I would even fathom he has been unfaithful. He says that I am pushing him away but I also have to protect myself financially since I am the sole income. I recently changed jobs and our lives and lifestyle changed on a moments notice. He suddenly found himself alone for a few weeks when we were relocating and we bought a home together. I am not sure what happened when he was alone but our relationship definitely changed. He says he is here to stay otherwise he would not have bought a house with me. He told me last week that I am his one and only and he loves me from the bottom of his heart. I have stopped saying that I love him for the most part. I know more about what going on with him than he thinks based upon his behavior. I see him reading emails or text messages on his phone and then he starts smiling. I haven’t snooped nor will I. My gut tells me there is more going on than he is admitting to. I love him and just want to feel secure again and that I can trust him. I can’t make him happy, he has to choose that for himself. I know that I will be okay no matter how it turns out. How do I move forward from here?

      • Brian Too

        Hey Dazed, You may be onto something. I think it maybe the mid-life crisis or depression that helps push the spouce into the EA. It all their life questioning and “What if’s. When they start to guess at what their life could have been, then it may be the time to start seeing a marriage or personal therapist.
        Like Doug has mentioned in his blogs, the CS or both spouces should be totally tansparent. Even though there is no known EA everything should be open between spouces. If you have to hide cell phone conversations or text, it may be something to check. Normally it is doing things out of the ordinary. You know your spouce better than anyone else and know their behaviors. Typically most married men, as most women are predictable when you have know them for so long. If there are drastic changes, such as dress, conduct, and attitude it is ok to be cautious. It wasnt until I got the whole” I love you, but I am not in love with you” speech, that really made me think. Every situation is slightly different, but most have the same pattern. Make sure you ask a few other close friends or relatives and see if they notice any differences. Typically it isnt hard to see the changes. I know, because when I talked to my in-laws, theyknew something wasn’t the same.
        I hope this helps. Good Luck and stay safe.

      • Norwegian woman

        Dazed.
        As Brian Too stated, there is a pattern. It MAY be just a mid-life crise, but it sure looks like more than just that. The e-mail and phone-message thing is a huge warning sign. You say that you do not want to snoop. Well, then you have to get real with him about what you feel. He probably will be insulted, but if there is nothing to hide it should not be any problems to show you his texts and e-mails. If he refuses, then you probably will have to snoop. Anyway, he will know that you are on to him.
        If you continue to let this pass, you will only make it worse. You say that you have stopped to tell him that you love him. After a while, you will start to draw yourself away from him in other ways, and really make it easy for him to have an affair.
        If you really want to stay married and feel safe, you have to work on what makes a marriage good. That means that you are transparent, caring and working with the two of you in mind in everything you do. Both of you.
        Most of us in here, have been in the position you are in now. The way you react to the changes, most of us have done before. Being distant, holding back, not sharing, not talking about the issue and so on. It only made it worse. And I am sorry to say that most of us had to discover that our spouses DID have an affair. Trust your instincts.

    • Melvin

      Dazed,
      I know that a mid-life crisis did play a part in my wife’s EA. We are becoming empty nesters, she was beginning to question her life after child rearing and was having some self-esteem issues. With that said, her EA was really about her being selfish and taking advantage of freedoms that she was given. My good friend has become an empty nester also and is having a severe mid-life crisis. The new hot car, private vacations, phone calls that he has to take in private. He shows all the signs of having an EA and possibly a PA, however, no one knows for sure.

      I would trust your gut on this one – it sure sounds like there is something going on behind the scenes. I found that the best advice came from my counselor and reiterated by others here, that being to always show your spouse your best side. Stay upbeat and positive. As you show your happiness to your partner, he might just see that he has the best thing right here in your home. Make sure to take care of yourself as well. Do you have arguments with him over this issue ? My counselor warned me against challenging my wife so as not to appear to be pushing her away. Instead, he suggested keeping questions short, brief and don’t be argumentative. Make your point in a calm manner, get feedback and don’t fire back.

      Not sure if this helps you or not. Best always.

    • Dazed

      Thank you everyone for your support. Things have been much better the last week or so. We have started an ongoing conversation and dialogue between us that has had some positive results thus far. Just need to reflect more on all of it. One of the biggest things we identified is that we both have a Vitamin D deficiency cause winter/rain won’t stop. We decided to join a tanning salon at the suggestion of a friend who is a doctor. He said that in moderation the tanning could help us both with the winter blahs and it has! My mood and my partner’s has been so much better and has helped us to do something together and to aid in our being open to our dialogue. I am not pulling away from him just working on giving me and him some space to process. We have also been exercising together and individually which is definitely been beneficial. I have really trimmed down and he is noticing. My self confidence is coming back. We have also been joking around more and doing activities together that we have enjoyed and still enjoy. He is making an effort to be more affectionate and I am doing a better job of listening to him about his dreams, wants, needs and desires. We will see how things progress.

    • Jessica

      We went away for the weekend and I did something I wish my H had done I told him the truth. I don’t like who I have become in this marriage and as much as I love him ( enough not to want to cause him pain) I don’t know of our marriage will make it. All this time it has really been about him, why he did this, what was he missing, why the deception the secrets what werehis feelings towards her, does he still care? is he leaving me for her? Did he want to leave me was he going to? the pain at times almost unbearable and now I’ve become this very insecure jealous anxious person. It was like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders, he was emotional and vowed to work even harder he doesn’t want to loose me, we still have one in college and the youngest at home, this isn’t a life I want for them divorced parents. I don’t know what will happen I love him that hasnt gone away but I also need to get better. I will NOT look at her facebook page anymore I am done with her even if it means I delete my own page. It’s time to take control of my life and it’s been almost 10 months, with the next two horrible months of triggers ahead.

      • Brian Too

        Jessica, great job on releasing the weight. It is good to just say,” I am done with the pain” and let him have the burden. Remember this is not your fault, there is nothing you could have done. Let him prove that he is going to do what it takes to make it work. This OW is nothing and she will not contol you. She is just a character in his fantasy world. Take everyday, one at a time. Don’t hurry it. Cherrish every day with the children you have at home and away. They will help to be your rock until your H can repair what he has done. Only in his actions will you be able to see whether he truley wants to fix what he has broken. Be strong and have courage to change the things you can.
        My childen have become my rock and have given me strength. I have learned to be a great father and husband, and be a happy person even though my W is still so much in the EA. The hurt is no longer there when she leaves, becasue I have told myself, I cannot change this. I can only be better for myself and my children. I can truley see it. The fustration, anxiety, confusion, and uncertainty that she is dealing with. Like yourself, I have said, ” I am done with the pain” . I have no control , so let the problem be her own and no one elses. I will help when it is my time, but until the CS realizes the problem lies within, there is nothing I can do. I am free and am in a better place. Nothing will hurt us anymore, because we all understand, and now have the tools to be strong.

    • ppl

      same thoughts here. effort too much. wife wouldnt even read on what EA was. when marriage councellor told me i needed to woo her back, it became too much. being pleasent, supportive of her desire for space, keeping house going, full time work while she is dysfunctional. I have checked out. anything she does is fine. i wont leave home until my youngest is launched to college in a year but i am three months from my year aniversery of living a separate life (in the basement) and find myself happy with it. she will make statements like “i know you will never leave me” a week before she renews contact with other person. my nly advice is ignore the speach, watch the actions. spying doesnt work. dishonest people are great liars and learn from previous mistakes.

    • Saddenned

      Jessica,

      Get off of facebook, I had too, much unneeded pain and suffering.

    • Broken

      Jessica…..know exactly how you feel. I am so glad you have come to this place in your healing. You made me think as well…..it really has been all about them hasn’t it? I think it is so important though to get them to the point where they can actually experience the pain you are feeling. Sounds like maybe your hubby was there this weekend. Take care.

    • Donna

      I don’t know how to get past the not looking at facebook. The ow was once my very best friend and she has now moved away, now has a boyfriend, however I still feel the need to keep an eye on her because I still do not trust. It is only 2 months past D day for me, only been 4 maybe 5 months since he stopped talking with her. HE was at the real intense love foir her and not for me. He told me the other day that he is here because this is where he wants to be. Anyway, I need help in moving past facebook and feeling like I can start to place trust back in my husband without looking at ow page which mind you I do first thing every morning and sometimes through out the day.

    • Eve

      Right it’s over I finished it yesterday
      my heart is breaking but right thing to do
      if it is why do I feel so crap
      he also treated me bad by the way in the end
      so I was only there to massage his ego n now it’s all over
      I truly loved him n hurt like he’ll

    • Eve

      Wat do I do now
      you all need to help me cos I’m so upset
      yes I’m married yes I have kids
      my husband has his problems n I’m very alone n sad

    • Jessica

      Broken,

      I don’t know if my H will ever feel the pain I have felt, but now he gets that his actions have destroyed our marriage and my almost my sanity. I don’t think he ever thought I would find out and once he did thought I would just be mad and get over it in a reasonable (his timeframe) amount of time. We used to be each others rock and now I have to be my own rock and take control of my life.

    • Jessica

      Donna,

      I had to end the facebook thing cold turkey, I look good, well for a 52 year old with 4 kids…. but inside I was a mess. It wasn’t doing me any good to look at her face every day, as my H said this past weekend when I told him the truth, why are you doing this to yourself? So I ended it. I removed the facebook app from my phone, I haven’t gone on it since friday and if I feel the urge to look at her page I am going to delete my page, I don’t know how to do it but I will find out how. I in a way became as obsessed with her as my H did, and the insanity of this had to end. I feel like by removing her I have now removed her from my life, I didn’t ask for her to be in my life and she is no one I would ever be friends with or want to be friends with. This action has brought me peace. This decision has also stopped some of the obsessive thoughts I have had of her and him.

      • Donna

        Jessica, well done on your cold turkey break from facebook, very proud of you. I think I am getting close to it, it really does start to rule your life and I get so sick of her poor pathetic poor me comments on her page. My husband has no idea I can access her page, I wonder what he would think if he knew? would he then want to look and see what she is up too, who her boyfriend is etc… I don’t need him to become more obsessed than he already is or was. Anyway, thank you for your quick relpy, much appreciated and stay strong. x

    • Brian Too

      Hey Eve, You are not alone. We are all here for you. Also, You have your kids, always and forever! I don’t have my wife, in any way shape or form for intemacy. I ask for a hug from my kids. Hug your kids, it makes you feel so much better. Thats what I do. Get them to laugh, spend time with them.
      The CS will always try to make you feel like crap. Thats what they do. Its their defense mechanism, always tryng to make themselves feel good and justifying what they are doing. Remember, its not your fault and there is nothing you can do. You can change people, they have to do that themselves. You are done with him and what he has done to you.
      Alone is only a state of being in a sense. You have family, kids, friends, and others. Use these close people and safe people to talk to, release/unload to them. It is ok to cry, get upset. This is pure emotion and it is ok. Ask us questions, we all are there is some way, shape or form. Just say to yourself, your done with it, “its over”, and “you will make it”. You are a strong person.

    • Broken

      My H went away on a business trip Sunday….home yesterday. These trips are hard for me because when EA was occuring he use to call her 1st thing in the morning and spoke with her obviously at night as well when he was back in his hotel room. I know this by our past phone records. In fact his contact with her during business trips (via cell phone) tripled while he traveled. We spoke on this subject alot and he knew how hard it was for me and he even had a hard time leaving Sunday. He called me 9 times from the time he left home until he got to his destination. Then I didn’t talk to him for 24 hours. He answered a few text the next day very sweet answers but that was it. I called him at 8pm the following night and he was short and mean. He called back in the bathroom and was again mean to me. I know he was with clientsall day and evening as he was trying to buy a company. I called him to say goodnight at 930 and he yelled at me. The next day I decided I wasnt going to call all day. He called me around 300 because he was upset about something…he called 3 more times for the same reason. He called again at night and was mean to me. The day he was leaving I called him when I figured he was on the way to the airport. He was busy doing something and yelled at me but when he hung up his phone was not disconnected and I heard him say Jesus Christ I wish she would leave me alone. Then he called back a few minutes later and was the nice guy that had left on Sunday. The moment he got home he wanted to talk about his behavior. Too late…it had triggered all of the pain again I feel. How can someone say how much they love you and want to make up for what they do then treat you so poorly? What do you guys think? I dont know what to believe anymore. I dont even trust my own feelings anymore. WHat should I do? Is it just a set back? He acts like its all over and nothing happened. I know for a fact that there has been no contact with the OW since the day I found out…August 2010.
      I dont know how much longer I can hang on……I deserve better.

    • Broken

      ….oh and by the way he said when I called him it was like a joke to his buddies. They laughed when I called. I told him I was sure his coworkers had spoken to their spouses too. So now I am a joke as well.

    • roller coaster rider

      Wow. that’s a whole lot of insensitivity hurled at you, and if I were you I would be really mad. Yes, hurt. But maybe he gets mean because he feels like he is being made fun of by his ‘buddies’ although if they knew why you were wanting to keep in contact with him, they might not find it so funny. Have you told him how you feel when he is mean? For me, in the past, this was the worst thing about our marriage. For whatever reason, at times, my husband would just get mean. He really hasn’t done that a lot since D-Day, but of course that was less than three months ago. It is a horrible way to treat anyone, let alone someone you claim to love and care about. But having an affair is beyond horrible, and its ramifications are too. Does your H know how close you are to calling it quits? I think he needs to know. I’m sorry, Broken.

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      For my H he was getting very tired of my insecurity and lack of trust in him, this would cause at times shortness with me especially if he was in a business lunch meeting and had to take my call. Maybe that is what your H is feeling. Take care of yourself first, when he says something you perceive as rude let him know right then. I should be happy the E A is over, I should be happy he choose me, but the truth is he destroyed the marriage we used to have and now he has to work very hard at creating this new one if I even want it. in June are so many trigger days two that went beyond lying by omission but rather deceiving me right to my face and plotting his excuse to leave for four hours on two Sunday’s. I asked him why didn’t he tell me the truth and he said because he wanted to meet with her and if I knew I would have said no so as this posting says stopping an emotional affair is hard. I asked him about a call he made to her after he got off a plane back from Mexico and he said he called about business I still don’t believe this I believe he called to tell her he was back and would see her at the picnic he told me he was going to with the “guys” . My dad died of cancer 5 years ago what he wouldn’t give for one more month, and here I’ve wasted 10 months on this so I decided I had enough of the other woman and i had enough of feeling like crap,my mental health was gone and the marriage I thought I had was destroyed. Only then could I find the strength to move on I told him and was and still am to move on with or without him. Your H needs to respect you enough to take your calls whenever and for whatever reason. Just by staying with him through all of this proves you love and care about him and your marriage. In the end the decision to stay is mine and this week for the first time in ten months I haven’t felt any anxiety.

    • Brian

      Broken,
      Sorry to hear you are still struggling… maybe counseling can resolve some of these issues between you? If there’s been no contact with the OW then he is trying but there are still things to work on apparently. If you both are willing…

      In my case, she is not willing. We’ve been to two couples sessions and both times she said she lost feelings for me and insists the EA with the other guy is just friends and is not impacting how she feels about me. Frustrating. When the counselor asked what we want to do I said to try to bring the love back to our marriage and stop doing those things that are hurting our relationship. She said she did not know what she wanted to do but her “friendships” were important to her and she did not want to give them up.

      So we will either separate or divorce. I will agree to a trial separation only if we continue couples counseling, agree to date each other regularly (once a week), and there will be no dating other people during the separation. If she cannot agree to any of these terms then I will just file for divorce. It’s the last thing I want but she is making no effort and if that continues there is no future for us. Either way the boys will have to be told soon… I dread that conversation.

      I wish you all the best.

      • Brian Too

        Hey Brian, I am in the same boat as you. My wife wants to move out and be away from me. She says that getting away and missing me is the only she thinks that it will work out. We all know it is the OP that she still sees and has contact with that is here drug or addiction. Also it is deep emotional problems that need to be worked on through a therapist.
        This guy that you wife says is just friends cannot be. If they talk or have casual conversation is very toxic and is cheating no matter what your wife says. An affair can even be conversation if you have had or do have feelings for this other person. My wife says she only wants a seperation and not divorce. She says that maybe she will get feelings again if we are appart. I think she is always trying to get her way. I don’t know if after this time away that I will want to move forward. I guess being good to myself anf my kids is the best thing right now. It will take a lot of hard work to get the marriage back to where it needs to be and right now she is not willing at all. Not even willing to go to the therapist. I guess you have to accept and admit in your heart that there is problems, that can be fixed and you need to want it. Right now that isn’t going to happen and I don’t know if I can be strong in the future as I am right now. Oh well, one day at a time, right?
        I hope your wife agrees to the counseling. I think this is the only thing that will really help. I am sure your wife, like mine, has deep rooted problems that are affecting your relationship and causing her to act this way. Like you, I have contimplated divorce and maybe tough love is the only alternantive. I don’t know. Of course there is no ” EASY” button for this. These are life changing decissions, but at least, we, are making choices. That makes us strong. I hope you have a great Memorial Day weekend planned. I will be spending it with my kids up at the lake. My wife will be with her friend, as she calls him. I will have minimum contact with her and I know it will be eating at her. Thats her choice and if she makes the wrong one, than she has only herself to blame. Take Care and stay strong.

        • Brian

          Hey Bri,
          My wife too can be controlling. Looking back I can see many times where I just said whatever because it really wasn’t that big a deal to me but maybe I should have spoken my mind more… I don’t know. Anyway time apart might be good for us… I know I’m tired of the emotional ups and downs. Maybe by minimizing contact with her (counseling, kids activities) she will see that I can get by, no, thrive without her. Might make her think twice. If not, well I’ll be fine just the same.

          Have a great weekend with your kids and take care of yourself, ok?

          Bri

          • Brian Too

            Back to you Brian, Yes, controlling is right. They seem to thrive on it. Always in control, always thinking they are right, and never accepting that there is other solutions. Maybe being more open minded. Im not sure if this is from their upbringing or past, but it sure is imbedded. I know that not being in her face, staying away, doing our own thing & giving her space has helped, but seems like it isnt enough. Maybe it is influences from the OP that we do not hear about. Let that be for my wife. The less I give her to talk about and things that make her life easier, the more she has to think about what she is leaving and more self reflection. I know that by getting better, physically, emotionally, and overall better for myself has bothered her. It makes her look at herself. Now all she has to complain about are the good things I have been doing, and that Brian, is pure insanity. Its like there is no pleasing her. I truley think it is self love, or the ability to love herself before she can love others. She has not gotten to that yet. She still gives me the guilty talk about getting away, getting a one way plane ticket, running of the road and getting ….., these things. Not sure why, because I tell her she has her, son, daughter, and husband who love her very much. Taking it all in is hard. I guess, breaking it down really helps. Small steps…..

            • roller coaster rider

              Brian, I know in the past when I have felt very guilty about something that I wasn’t ready to give up, suicidal thoughts were way up there, although I didn’t tell anyone else. The other thing is maybe it’s a plea for pity, or another lie…CSs are full of those. My thoughts are with you.

            • Brian

              Well she threw me another curve this weekend and asked me to stay in the house (again). Also, she wants to continue couples counseling and actively work on the marriage. She also wants to get back into individual counseling for herself. Finally, she promised she has been faithful and will continue to do so, although her idea of being faithful and mine are two different things. Regardless, I am staying in the house and giving it one more shot. We’ll see what comes of it. I will continue to put on a happy face and work on myself.

              Hope everyone had a good weekend…

            • Brian Too

              Hey Brian, Good to hear she is giving you that chance. I hope it really starts to make a turn for you. I think its just wise to take it slow and don’t expect too much. I know yo wouldn’t want to go too fast and go backwards. For your boys and you, it is a good begining to a fresh start. Maybe you can give me some advice.
              I took my girl (10) up to my parents cottage Friday eve untill Monday. My 20 yr. old son decided to stay home. It had a rocky start. Saturday morning my wife got on the phone with my daughter and they got into a heated discussion. Seen that my daughter had text her a message. Something to the fact that my daughter said to my wife ” You want a divorce sooooo bad that maybe she (my daughter)would just stay with my son and I at the house and she should just leave.” That was all the contact we had with my wife until Monday. My wife was spending her time with her OP in a different city.
              My daughter & I had a great time just the (2) of us. Fishing, canoeing, biking, & some nice campfires. It was a good relaxing 2 days away. My wife had said that she wasn’t going to come up to my parents cottage all this summer, but I know it bothers her, because she has mentioned this to me. I didn’t talk much to my wife when we got home Monday. She didn’t look very good. Kind of worn out. I just don’t know where to go with this. I am enjoying my time with my son and daughter. My wife has talked about getting her own place. Applied for apartments. She cant afford it alone. Stuck in a hard place. Oh well. I am enjoying the time with my kids, but wife and the kids relationship is tanking bad, and I can see it. She blames puberty on the daughter & her relationship. I think she has no clue. It really is my daughter fighting back and resenting her for what she is doing. My son is already past it and has no respect for her. Oh well, One day at a time. Any Suggetions?

    • Broken

      We went out last night and unfortunately it was dominating my thoughts. He tried to not talk about it but we did. He said I should know he has always been like that on business trips after 30 years…….so that would be an excuse to be mean? I mentioned that I was sure when he was calling his AP that he was not mean to her,,,not even once. He said I guess we always hurt the one we love the most. Really? I asked him if he thought we would make it. He got really upset with that and said in his mind there was never a question but obviously since I even asked that there was a question in my mind. He said I needed to decide….that he couldn’t take the back and forth thing. He also said when he was away he felt like I was smothering him,,,,really since I rarely called. I just dont know what to do anymore. Its like I am being victimized all over again. Jessica I hope to get where you are at and just say goodbye to those feelings. August is my trigger month so I know how you feel.
      Roller Coaster…thanks for your thoughts. It really helps.

      Jessica …I feel like you and I experience about the same day to day garbage. Hang in there.

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      I can only imagine what my H would say if he met yours, I love my W but she can be a pain in the A. lately.
      When I told my H I didn’t know if our marriage would make it he was shocked! I told him the insecurity and anxiety you are now feeling is the same I have felt x 10 every day for the past ten months. The shock no where compares to the shock I felt knowing there was another woman in our life. I told the truth everyday for ten months not knowing if you would contact her or her you and start this up again. Everyday looking at her facebook seeing her picture, looking at you phone logs past and current looking at your email. By the end of the weekend he said what can he do? I said I don’t know you’ve done everything I’ve asked but now our marriage is at ground zero with no trust.
      This past week has been my best no anxiety but by last night was his breaking point, he was feeling stressed.

      This morning he called from work told me he has alot of travel to book and that he wants me to pick two of the trips and go with him. This is a first!! When he travels he’s in his A mode and I honestly don’t think he thinks of me until the flight back.

      So now he is really trying and coming up with ideas on his own. He gets the anxiety that I had been living with for ten months.

    • Brian

      Brian Too,
      One major reason my wife is willing to work on things is her love for our boys. I think she is coming to realize just how much we have to be grateful for and it would all change should we split. I will continue to be my best and keep my expectations low for now, but it certainly goes to show how quickly things can turn around in a matter of days.

      Bri, I wish I had some golden nugget of advice for you but all I can do is repeat the advice you and others have given me: Be better for yourself and for your children. I know it has helped me and may have helped my wife decide to work on things. I hope your wife begins to see what she is losing by her actions. Stay strong and take care of yourself.

      Oh, and thanks for listening and your advice…

    • broken

      Hope everyone is doing ok. Things are kinda quiet here lately. Thats a good sign. I am just trying to make it. Take care…..Jessica hope you are ok.

      • Brian Too

        Hey Broken, I agree, kind of quiet. It maybe the start of summer, but i am sure, eveyone is busy. Including myself. I hope you can make it also. I am sure you can. As long as you have safe people, like those on this site. 🙂 I have been trying to do well. Seems like this summer, maybe the making or breaking point for my wife. Not sure, I asked her yesterday if she want to attend a summer concert in the city we live in. I said if she didn’t want to, that it was ok, just thought I would ask. Also told her that if she didn’t want to I would ask someone else to go, because I really want to go to this. She hesitated, then I asked if she needed more time to decide and she said yes. I was suprised that she would even consider it despite our current situation. I am continuing to be good for myself and for my kids. I cannot worry about her because she doesn’t let me emotionally in her life right now. Not sure how this EA and relationship with the OP is going. We don’t talk about this at all. We also don’t fight at all. Are conversations are minimal and to the point. She seems very depressed and doesn’t smile too often. She was talking to this OP a few days ago in the basement and she was upset and crying. I thought to myself, if this relationship with this OP was so great, why would she be crying. Isn’t this what she wanted. Anyway, I am taking one day at a time and trying to spend as much of this time with my kids. At least the situation hasn’t gotten worse. It actually seems to level off.
        Anyway, hopefully you have a good week and remember to take one day at a time. Even the littlest things seem to make a difference when we are trying to cope with our spouces EA. Summer is almost here. Take time and enjoy yourself.

        • Doug

          I was thinking that it was somewhat quiet myself. Of course we’ve been busy as heck, as I’m sure everyone else is as well. It’s time to get outside and enjoy the weather (which is finally at least dry) and do some things that are fun and enjoyable.

          Sounds like there might be trouble in paradise, or perhaps the OP’s not-so-good side is showing more these days. For what it’s worth I think you are approaching your situation with your wife in a good way – not too laid back, but not too pushy. Keep us updated!

        • Brian

          For me, my wife blind-sided me in couples counseling yesterday. After telling me at home she wanted me to stay in the house and she wanted to continue couples counseling and individual counseling, she announced she wanted to separate and stop couples counseling. Then she proceeded to point out my failings in the marriage. I was so pissed. Now I’m looking for a place… don’t know what else to do.

          • Doug

            Brian, Sorry you got blind sided like that. I still think that you should reconsider leaving – at least until you speak to your attorney.

          • broken

            Brian so sad to hear that…..everything sounded so positive a few days ago. Do you think its time to give up? She seems to not know what she wants which is pretty normal. You def have to take care of yourself but I hate to see you go and give her what she wants. You know whats best for yourself. I hope you can stick it out a little longer perhaps she is just at that anger point in all of this. Angry at you…at herself. Hang in there.

          • Brian Too

            Hey Brian, Don’t give up yet. When she blind sided you it was her defense mechanism kicking in. Like most CS, they don’t do well in front of others. They get scared, defensive, and have to point blame. They live in a fantasy world that is made up of only a few people. Like my wife, she only has this OP and one sister, that doesn’t give a S_ _ _. When they are confronted with people that don’t side or have the same houghts as they do they get very defensive. When the past or marital problems are brought up, it is just a shield. This is all they have on you, that can be used. Remember this is all in the past and you!, are willing to work on it. You are making changes and getting better. Living in the past will not get anywhere. When a person points blame, they should turn that finger around and point it back at themselves, becasue if you are not part off the solution, you are part of the problem. Live every day as if it was your first, and live it for your boys. That doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy. Its coming up on summer, get a project with the boys. Maybe, a go Kart, soapbox car, muscle car, tree house, anything to get your mind off of this. I went 4-wheeling with my son this weekend and seeing him enjoy himself and me being 10 years younger was really good.
            Be good to yourself and things will happen for you. They defenitly can’t get worse. We have all been in the worst place and that was finding out or husbands or wives cheated on us. This is behind us and we cannot change it. Like myself, I have figured that this had too happen to me, if not now, maybe in the past of in the future. It will either make my marriage better or make us better friends. In the end it will be a winning situation for you. Hang in there and tough.

            • Brian

              Brian Too,

              You should be a motivational speaker… seriously! I do want to stay… for my boys and for my marriage. But am I doing the marriage more harm than good? Am I driving her further away the longer I stay? And. like your wife, her fantasy world consists of the OP, and a girlfriend who is a poor role model. She won’t tell her family or her other friends for fear of reprisal from them. I tried to get past complaining about the past in counseling, tried to move things forward to a more positive path but it was a losing battle. She kept bringing up the same petty stuff to justify her behavior. My boys and I will be going to Boy Scout camp for a week in July and we will go camping later in August. We will have a good summer.

              Brian Too, are you still living together? I don’t want to leave but feel like I can’t stay…

        • broken

          Hi Brian Too…..I have read your posts and have always admired your strength. I also admire your strong commitment to your children and their needs……you always put them first and what a wonderful parent you must be. I read your post about your Memorial weekend with your daughter and I felt so sad for your children. It is sad how they become the innocent victims in the selfishness of the cheating spouse. I am so lucky that mine are adults and live their own lives. They never had to see what their dad did and I never want them to think less of him for a mistake that he made. Had they lived at home in this past year there would have been no way for them to escape what my H and I have been going through. It has made it a little easier for me.
          I like how you have handled the situation you are in by just going on with your life. I haven’t been able to do that until recently (10 months now since dday) and someedays I return to the emotional mess I can be, Maybe its a guy thing to be able to keep your emotions at bay. I started to go back to church a few weeks ago….I desperately needed something I could believe in and something that I could trust again. It has helped ….after I get through crying through the entire first song every Sunday. Then Thursday I joined their support group for betrayed woman….first group meets next week so I am hoping it will help.
          We dont talk much about the EA lately. He hurt me pretty bad on his last business trip and it has taken me sometime to get over that. He was very mean to me. Thats when I decided……to heck with him…..my strength will be my own. I ask him every week if he wants to join me in church (he use to love it)…the answer is still no and thats ok…I will ask every week.
          Take care everyone. Would love to hear how you guys are doing out there. Brian T…your wife sounds VERY conflicted and not at all happy. You are incredible for standing by her.

          • Brian Too

            Hey Broken, you have the right attitude. Do not give him anything to bring you down. Be as possitive as you can even in front of him. I know women are emotional creatures and that is why I am in the situation I am in. If my wife was rational she would not be doing these things. Don’t get me wrong, men are very emotional also. Like myself, I have a soft heart, and think of others before myself. Which is something my wife does not do. Seems like she always has a chip on her shoulder and can never give anything out unconditionally. I think that is why she has a hard time with giving love. It always has to have conditions. If you cannot love yourself, how can you love other or accept love from others. This has to come from something deep inside. Something from the past that has triggeed this reaction. I don’t know yet, if they won’t accept help, if they don’t think something is wrong. Addmission is part of the healing process, and she is not there yet.
            As for you, I hope your H can get past his anger. You keep attending church and do what you want. It is “his” will that we are, where we are at, and if we give ourselves to “him” he will guide us through this mess. Keep asking your husband to attend church. Don’t insist, but ask. In his eyes, he is wearing the black hat (Scarlet Letter) and cannot face his maker. Hopefully he will ask for forgivness and get on with his life with you in it. Take care and remember the serenity prayer.

    • melissa

      Been busy too, travelling with my H and being with him 24/7. Travelling is good, and the challenges we have met whilst on this trip have been interesting, we’ve had to work as a team – I have been less obsessive about his EA and the OP, yet the fear is still there, lingering in the background. But I’ve been taking it one day at the time and – as others on this site – trying to do things that are fun and enjoyable.

    • melissa

      Brian, so sorry to hear about your situation. Not sure what to advise except that my H also wanted to stop counselling because it was all ‘psychobabble’. As others have said, it’s part of a defence mechanism. It’s pretty hard for anybody to admit (and even just realise) how flawed we are and how we’ve messed up and hurt the people we love. Keep strong.

    • Brian Too

      Hey Brian,
      What harm would be there in staying. Remember, you want to make things work. If you be the best husband you can be, & father you can be, why would you get in fights or get her upset. There is other things to live for, like your kids and yourself. Don’t get me wrong, there are other things a man or woman needs to get their needs emotionaly and physically met. I am willing to put those things on hold. Chances are, and the odds are in your favor that she will get sick of this OP and find his faults as well. Now, this may mean that she will be over the EA, but only then will she see you as you are and maybe the guilt and feelings of rejection will hopefully truly make her realize her errors. This is when it gets hard. You also have to continue to work on your relationship with a therapist helping.
      Remember you will always have the opporunity to find a special peson in your life again and you will, if it comes to that. Being that person you are, it would happen. Like me, you weren’t married this long to just let it go. You will do everything you can in your power to make it work. Even if it means staying in a marriage when the other person is in a EA. It is different for everyone, because there may be verbal or physical abuse that is not tolerated. I am sure you would not let it come to this.
      Maybe set a goal for yourself. You will give yourself a certain time, before for sure moving out. Like you, my W is still at home. She has been talking about moving out since before January and I have heard her say in the past month that she wanted to move out before summer. I am prepared menatlly for it, but again, she has yet to bring herself to that point. She has looked, even applied, but she is being too picky. Maybe she is doing this just to put it off. I think she has no real motivation to move out. I am not forcing hear, nor am I fighting with her to give her reason. It does not mean I am being a doormat. I am doing what I want, spending good time with the kids, and being better for myself. She on the other hand is not happy, depressed, tired all the time, and am sure not 100% happy in the OP. She is doing the same things over & over and expecting different results and we al know this is the definition for Insanity.
      When you say” you feel like you can’t stay”, does it mean emotionally or just can’t take it. If so, grab you boys and play catch, watch a movie, mow the lawn, in other words keep busy. Get to the point when talking with you wife and don’t let her tell you what you cannot do. It is your life and if you want to stay you can. Someday, you may not be living with her, but today you are. Do everything you can to survive, before moving out and going through a Divorce. Those are you last results. Giving up is too easy and that is the route our wives have taken and believe me, thats not who we are. Be strong and stay busy. Keep you thoughts on things you can control. it will surely help. Take Care.

      • Brian

        Hey Brian Too,

        I hear what you are saying, but it’s not that I don’t want to stay… I do, but she feels that she needs time apart from me to figure things out. In her mind, the “friendship” is secondary to the fact that she has fallen out of love with me and that time apart will give her a break from the tension she feels. By staying I will drive her further away emotionally and we may never be able to patch things up. I have been upbeat, have continued to be the good husband I’ve always been. Maybe that’s part of the problem… I’ve been too accomodating. I don’t know. I know I can stay but I don’t want us to end up hating each other…

        • Brian Too

          Hey Brian, Thats how I feel. I don’t want to cause arguments or get in fights. so far so good. She also wants her space, but I am not leaving. I chose to want to make this work. I want to work on my relationship. I am attending therapy, getting strong, and being their for my kids. I am sure you are the same way. However, she is only doing 1/2 of these 5 things. That is trying to be good to her 10 year old daughter. All the others she chooses not to. Besides that, she wouldn’t be able to take care of the house, cars, pets, cleaning, and others. She barely has time to take care of herself, & her daughter. I am not sure about your wife, but mine has checked out of the home maker department. Granted, she does work 25 hours/wk. but I do more at home in 1 hr. than she does all the other time she has at home in 1 day. I think emotionally she is shot. She wouldn’t be able to hold down a full time job, or take care of things alone. I am sure she spends so much time thinking of this OP and also talking and texting this OP.
          You also mentioned being too accomidating. I am noy sure exactly what you meant, but can imagine. If it means too accomidating with the kids. That is never true. You can never spend too much time with your kids. In the long run they will remember this. Also you said she has fallen out of love for you. That is untrue, because we all know that true love is unconditional and us BS’s have heard this time & time again. They haven’t fallen out of love, they just have just givin up on their spouces. The people that have spent their lives building a relatonship from what we know. And what we know is not much, but “Generationally Deprived” We only know what are parents taught us and what we have developed from this. It is just an excuse. Next time she says this, you tell her that she has taken the easy route and just chooses not to work on it. Love, commitment, honor, & devotion comes from hard work not a feeling you get. That feeling you get from the OP is something you had in High School when you saw that young person you wanted to meet. We are adults here, we have made vows. There are no excuses. The only excuse you can maybe except is that they have given up. I hope it doesn’t come to that. I would stay in there or tell her to leave if she wants her space. Tell her to move in with a friend or relative. Just my opinion. Hope it helps.

          • Fatcat

            Wow, you described my W state exactly. She’s completely checked out except for her phone. She is miserable and depressed except when the OM sends a text or something. But I’ve become a super dad to the kids, hitting the gym, cheerful and being kind to her though I’m really pissed off inside. She’s also talked about moving out but how’s she going to function out on her own in her current mental state?

      • Brian

        Also, if I don’t leave the focus is off her and on me and my “unreasonable behavior”…

        • roller coaster rider

          Maybe it’s none of my business, but it sure seems like she should be the one to leave. If she’s unhappy and doesn’t think she’s in love, shouldn’t it be her responsibility to pursue her own ‘happiness’ without punishing you and the kids? If you’ve been too accommodating in the past…I don’t know. I think she’s trying to make you the bad guy and whether you stay or not, until she wants to be truthful, that probably won’t change.

          • Brian

            I’ve told her she’s free to leave but she will not. I know what you’re thinking… by leaving I am just accomodating her yet again. Maybe. ..

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      I was wondering how your doing!!!!!! So good to see your posting and get an update……
      Strange how our paths are so similiar we could pass in church or in life and know but not know each other is.

      I got so much strength from church, at first I would go and when we said the prayer to forgive those who trespass against us I couldn’t say the words I was pissed at him, it look months. He comes to church wiI’m not sure he really hears the message but he comes because it is important to me. There came a point where the pain was so great and I had to release it all to a higher power, the pills, the talking, the crying weren’t helping. I asked god to help me be strong. I wish there was a support group at our church for this topic I’m sure I’m not the only one.

      I let go of so much, he knows it’s still there but I came to accept talking to him wasn’t helping me. I’m not pretending to be this happy person, I refuse to be that type of person.

      Life is different now I no longer look at her F B page, I don’t look at the phone log daily. This has helped with my obsession.
      In thenews have been some real interesting marital infidelities just last night I said so do you have a twitter account and have you sent any pictures? We both laughed a first for us!

    • broken

      Jessica….I know what you mean…..we seem to share the same story. I wish we could have lunch somewhere…..we would have a great time!!!!!!! I live in Texas ….dont know where you are but maybe we do pass everyday.
      I can see from your posts that you have come so far….I hope that it continues for you. SO HAPPY to hear you guys shared a laugh about twitter……what progress is that! We actually share a joke occasionally as well…allthough carefully.
      I too look at FB less and less and haven’t looked at the phone bill but to pay it in a few weeks and I too find it helpful to put my energy somewhere else. I think thats also why I havent been on this site for awhile because I dont want it to hurt but it hasnt its ok. I feel like I just want to touch base with my friends and see how everyone is doing.
      I feel like this whole thing is a process that is about the same for everyone. We all share the same feelings, the same devastating pain, we all go through the day to day pain and we all do what we can to cope. It’s a journey I never thought I would ever be on and would give anything to go back to Aug 26 the day before I knew what was going on. Can’t turn back the hands of time.
      My H knows its still there too and he tries as best he can. I told him a couple of weeks ago that I didnt know if I could stay and live with this for the rest of my life…….but I love him and have such a rich history with him that it would be hard to walk away. So I have decided to stay and to make myself stronger.
      Like you…..the dates that I dread are right around the corner. Whats your plan for dealing with them? I thought maybe going away together?
      Church has helped alot….except for I actually cry throught
      the entire first song. I decided to attend a church that is not my religion because it was such a happy, uplifting place and I feel good when I’m there. I will continue to ask my H to go with me. I wish he would but I think he is so disappointed in himself he somehow doesn’t feel “worthy”….which is ridiculous.
      Take care all.

    • Jessica

      Broken,
      I’m going to do something I never do put my personal email out here seawife1@comcast . net. I didn’t see away to send private message.

      I would like to stay in contact with you.

      The first day came and went, I kept very busy son home from college for the summer.

      The next one I don’t honestly know how to handle it. Then
      D Day is July 27th
      Is the answer to create new memories on those dates? Will I someday forget them? Right now I don’t know how it will be possible.
      I am stronger but the sadness lingers deep down I just really try and remain focused on people and things that matter in life including my H.
      Take care

    • Brian

      By too accomodating I mean as far avoiding conflict. It’s not good and we are where we are because we did not confront our issues when they happened. I’ve told her that true love requires work and commitment but she insists it should not have to be so hard, that it should come naturally. She’s very naive in so many ways. At least she is continuing individual counseling. It may help her learn some truths about love and about herself. I will think hard about your suggestions. We are waiting until school’s out before we separate so I have a couple of weeks.

      • Brian Too

        Hey Brian, Avoiding conflict is ok, but sometimes, enough is enough. I guess it is knowing when to say that. Maybe this is when tough love come to play. I don’t know yet. I haven’t got that far yet. hopefully I don’t have to use it. I wouldn’t leave if I was you, but don’t know everything.
        It is kind of scary. Its almost like your are describing my wife. I am thinking that maybe, she was always this way. When you met before you were married, was she very needy, or did she require a lot of attention? Were there family problems that got her closer to you? My wife was always very jealous and protective. Almost like I was her blanket, her cushion. I think her homelife was so bad that I was her way of geting away. I think there is a lot of problems that came fom this and issues that have not been reesolved. I came from a pretty sound family upbringing by most standards. So I had good morals and standards. Not sure if this is true for all, but does have some basis for the outcome. My wife is a person that requires a lot of attention. I on the otherhand like to give my time for all people in need. Doesnt mean I don’t give her attention, maybe not enough that she requires, but it alll comes from communication. My wife is very selfish and will not give up her time unless there is a catch or benefit. I think her morals are all wrong. Her method is 2 wrongs are not right, but make you feel better. I think it comes from not being loved as a child. She came from a family of 8 and this had to affect a lot. She is much closer to the brothers/sisters than parents.
        Does your family or her family know about the OP and EA? If so do any approve? At this point we all know it doesn’t matter, but at least you have the support if it comes down to that.

        • Brian

          My wife is the youngest of 8 kids. When we met she pursued me, we clicked immediately. From what I gather, she was always boy-crazy, often the pursuer. She was not really needy but was certainly into our relationship. So was I. Her siblings had some personal issues but I don’t think that drove her to me. She was jealous at times but not overly. She’s sociable in general, independent, stubborn, flirty at times. We both come from good families, solid moral backgrounds. She is close to her 3 sisters but has not told them about the OP/EA or even that we are having marital issues. My brother is the only one in my family who knows. He’s been my main source of support.

          I want to stay, take care of my boys. I want to work on myself and the marriage. If I leave it makes it all harder but she just might not take me for granted anymore. If I stay, it’s same old same old…

          • Brian Too

            Hey Brian, She sounds like a good woman. Maybe just confused, as we all get. I don’t think, not leaving, is the answer. I also don’t think you are at the point to do this yet. Peoples opions of your wife have not been subject to her EA. I am sure if more people, and close people knew, that her EA would take a different turn.
            My wife’s family knows of her EA and highly dissagrees with it. Unfortunatly, my wife does not care about their opinion. At least on the surface. I get along with all of them very well. And they are as much my family as hers after knowing them for over 25 years. This is the part my wife hates. I do activities with them and talk with them. Unlike my family, Whom none of them know. I haven’t told my mother and this will be the hardest. My wife said if I do tell her, and I plan on doing it sometime, and tell her about the OP, that there will never be a chance of us reconciling, becasue she would be too emarrased and humiliated. She thinks of my mother as more of a mother than her own. How does one person think they have that much control over us? Ill never understand that. I guess the CS thinks they are invincible and they run the ship.
            I think maybe that your EA should be brought out sooner than later. They will find out and it possibly could be help. Not sure. Exposure works better for some than others. It hasn’t helped for me yet, but i think it is because she comes from a hard life and difficult upbringing. I think she is more hardened from all this.
            I know one thing, it is hard not to have that emotional connection/intimate relationship in my life. I am a softy and like to physically be held and to hold. It is very, very hard. I havent had that for a very, very long time. I do get that from time to time with my kids, but that doesn’t seem to be enough. I truley want to be loved. I don’t know the magic number. How much is enough. Everyone has a breaking point. Oh well, day by day, its all I have.
            I am glad to hear you have a brother that is supportive. Thats one thing I am lacking in my family. I have (2) older sisters, but no brothers. I do have a very close friend (Male) who helps tons. I hope your brother can give you good help. It is important to surround yourself with safe supportive people. It also helps to talk with people that have been through seperation and divorce. I have talked with several close friends and they have all told me the same thing. Divore and or Seperation are not glamorus by any means. It hurts eveyone. I am not sure, but I think my wife has this great picture of how it all might play out and how we would be the best of friends and everyone would get along. This is why they say the CS and their EA is just a fantasy and they are playing out this fantasy with their OP.
            I sure hope you make good choices. All I can do is offer help based on what I have learned and my personal experiences, but everyone is different. I am saying a prayer for everyone that visits this site. We should also pray for out enimies (OP), but that is hard for me to do. I ask for strength in doing this. I guess this is why we ask God for help and serenity to accept the things we cannot change. At least for now. Take care.

    • Brian

      She is a good woman and she is definitely confused. She is looking everywhere to find happiness; new friends, new career… everywhere but within her marriage. I’m a softie too and miss the physical intimacy we shared for so long. But I really feel like I need to let go. I’ve been putting on a good front most of the time, but inside I’ve been clinging to the old marriage even though I know it will never be the same. Got to let go a bit.

      I get along well with her family too. They will be shocked to hear we are having problems as will most of our friends. I will not bring the EA out in the open, it would not help anyway. She’s too stubborn. Besides, I will not bad-mouth my boys’ mother.

      Are you thinking maybe I should leave? I wasn’t sure what you meant about me not being “at the point to do this yet”. No easy answers and I’m sure struggling with this. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. You seem like a good man… we deserve better than this…

    • Brian Too

      Well, it seems to be very quiet. I guess I will start this week. I would just like to say, when you think everything is going a certain directions, it all can change. What I mean by this is, I have been very strong emotionally, mentally, and physically. I have been good for myself and my kids.
      At the end of last week, I have talked to my wife when she looked lost. I caught her in a very sad time. It was like she was somewhere else. She was talking about being scared to live alone and move out. Also something about, the grass isn’t greener on the other side. She looked so lost I gave her a hug. It has been a while since I hugged her and she actually hugged me back. At which point she didn’t even want to let go. I was supprised. I have been trying to prepare for the worst so I have been gathering information about Seperation & Divorce. At least to make myself awhare and familiar with what needs to be done. I have talked to my wife, telling her that I want to move forward and onward. I want to get better with our relationship, get help, which I have done. This I have done on my own. She has not tried and has chosen not to go to counseling. I have since told her I was done trying and I wanted to move on. This meant get a seperation or divorce. I told her that I wanted someone in my life that loved me and that wants to be with me. I also told her that I needed to be loved and I had so much love to give. Obviously she didn’t want my love. or at leaset that is what she has been telling me. I told her I had no choice, that it has been 9 months and I wanted to move on.
      Now, get this. I know the CS that has started the EA thinks they can do almost anything, but this is hard to take in. Why does she think she can have this much control. Now she tells me that if I truley loved her and I was her sole mate that I would continue to stand by her, give her time, and let her move out and try it. She wants to move out and spend some time alone. She thinks it would be good to be apart and this may make her realize how much she misses me. Yet, she has had 6 plus months to get out and find a place and she has been being very picky at finding something. Or maybe she doesn’t really want to go. She really doesn’t want to get a seperation or Divorce, but yet she still sees this OP once or twice a week. She also says that they are more like friend than anything, but then when I ask if they are intimate she gets defensive. She wants to move out and say we are seperated and not do any official paperwork.
      In this last conversation she had asked me why I am in such a hurry. I told her I didn’t think waiting 9 months was hurrying. She said she couldn’t do anything untill she gets this OP out of her head and doesn’t love them anymore. I told her I wasn’t going to wait and I am ok with not having her anymore. I am not sure which direction I should go. I am leaning toward getting a seperation. She is not doing anything in any major direction. I know the last time I saw the therapist, she told me to put pressure on her. I was to tell her to move out and in with the OP. She has since then told me she will not move in with this person. To this day, she still does not use this persons name in conversation. She referes to him as the friend or him. The therapist says it is because she is ashamed.
      Oh well, I will continue to more forward, with or without her. I can wait for her, becasue I have time, but I chose not to. I do want to move on and think this is the only way it will help. She is not making any progress and just seems to be falling into a comfort area. I do not want her to think this is ok and or for my kids sake, I want her to choose. They should not think this is the lifestyle of normal parents. Any suggestions?

      • Brian

        Hey Bri Too,
        We are at similar crossroads you and I. My wife wanted to separate and I reluctantly agreed. I did not want to but I realized that maybe we both needed time apart. So I found an apartment, spent thousands on furniture, prepared myself mentally and emotionally to move out. We talked about when I would get the boys, figured out the finances, and decided on a day to tell the boys. We were just days away from separating when yesterday she texted me saying she was sick at the thought of telling the boys that I was leaving and that she was so confused. I told her that life at home sucked for me right now and that her constant rejection of me was breaking my heart so we needed to be apart. She texted back that she understood. Later in the day she texted me to call her when I left work. I did and she was crying and asked if I would reconsider leaving, that she wanted me to stay and she wants to try to restore the feelings she has lost for me. I told her we should sleep on it and see if we felt the same way in th emorning. This morning she asked me again if I would stay and I said yes. She hugged me for the first time in months… felt so good…
        It seems that her EA has fizzled and she is finally seeing things a bit more clearly. When it all hit the fan she was forced to think about how the future would be. She finally confided in her sister who I think gave her some solid advice. I really think forcing the issue sometimes is necessary. Otherwise, things just stagnate as they are and nothing gets resolved.
        So we will be taking things one day at a time, baby steps for sure. You all know that I’ve been on quite a ride (haven’t we all?) but hopefully we’ve got past the worst and we can put the negativity behind us and work on the positive, because really that’s the only way to recover from the hurt and pain that exists.
        Sounds like your wife is confused and doing a lot of soul searching too. Hopefully she’ll come to the same conclusion that my wife came to.

        Brian

        • Doug

          Brian, You sure have been riding a roller coaster lately! I’m happy that she seems to be emerging from the fog and wants to try and work on things.

    • Roller coaster rider

      You are right. Nine months is a long time to wait for her to make up her mind and if she is still seeing the OP once or twice a week and is defensive about the intimacy, she has made a choice, hasn’t she?

    • Broken

      Hi everyone,
      Been very quiet here lately…I guess that is a good thing. Things with me are one minute great the next not so great. I was reading a blog the other day and the lady said she would trade in her whole past if she could just have amnesia regarding the affair. Pretty radical …but so can relate. Last night when my hubby and I went to bed we were talking about our sons new coach….I said I automatically dont like him because he cheated on his wife and left her for a college cheerleader. My husband said “will you always hate me because I cheated on you?” I never really thought about that but I really don’t like people when I hear they have betrayed their spouse for obvious reasons. Do I dislike him for that? Can I ever get over that? My husband tries really hard usually all of the time and then he does things that make me wonder if he can ever really change how he acts around other woman. He went out last Tuesday to a place we go all of the time. (I was out of town) We know everyone there but there was a new waitress that started that night. (this is a sports bar where the girls are very young and wear little referee outfits). Then Saturday we went out together to this place and this girl (new waitress) is so happy to see him, she like gushes over him and says sit in my section (we did not). Then she comes over to talk to him and says I told the girls I knew you and wanted you to sit in my section (he was at the bar last Tuesday for 2 hours) then as we are leaving she runs up to him and throws her arms around him to say goodbye. I thought I would faint. I was very upset and cried all night about it. When I got home from church I told him how I felt. He said he thought her behavior was a little over the top but what did I want him to do”put a bubble around himself”? AM I just like overreacting? He was pretty mad at me on Sunday and I told him I couldnt take it anymore that he must have been flirting with her and he said I had beat him down. Then a few hours later it was all over. I just dont get it. Now a safe , happy place that I enjoyed going is now a trigger for me. I cant do this much longer up and down, up and down. Is it me? Here I go questioning what I believe in again .

      • alycon

        What did I want him to do”put a bubble around himself”?!!!!!!!!

        Holy crap Broken (pardon the French!!!). but just how tactless is that? Yes, he SHOULD have put a ‘bubble’ around himself; he should have pushed the little !*$^& away and told her in no uncertain terms that she was being inappropriate and disrespectful to you and your marital boundaries!!!

        Jeez, what is it with some men that they just don’t seem to have the goolags to defend their wives and their marriages?!?!?!?

        My apologies if I seem rude but I just can’t get over the mindset of some people, I really can’t. If my H had said that to me in front of the little whatsit I wouldn’t avetaken any prisoners (sorry, that’s the mars in scorpio talkin’………we don’t do betrayal / excuses / sob stories….)

    • Roller coaster rider

      Broken, I don’t think you overreacted at all, and I would have felt devastated, too. Even if my H hadn’t had an affair, I would NOT be okay with anyone showing that level of affection to him. And I don’t think being remorseful for having betrayed precious trust would turn it around to feeling sorry for himself: “Will you always hate me for cheating on you?” Maybe he should think about what YOU need to heal, and be willing to protect you instead of throwing you under the bus and implying it’s YOUR problem. Just my opinion…

    • Tiff

      Ive been dealing with the realization that my H has been having an emotional affair with someone for about a week. I tried to confront it and was patted on the head and told I just read too much into what I saw and that I hadnt seen the entire conversation. I know better. He is in denial that anything is wrong and I dont know what to do. This coming immediately after his coming to me saying he wanted to fix our relationship, which I agreed needed some work. The stress of life has taken its toll on both of us and instead of working together weve been working against one another. The problem is that he has always been a social butterfly and I have never had a reason to doubt the benign nature of his interactions until now. Granted it is with a woman several thousand miles away, but someone he knew in his past. We have no children to think of other than a pair of four legged furbabies. So that element is not there to help build. I know deep in our hearts we are absolutely crazy about one another, but I dont know how to get him to see that what he sees as innocent is tearing us apart. I have had one food out the door since I found out, but keep pulling back because as angry and hurt as I am, I love him. I dont want him to have to repress who he is. I just want him to respect boundaries. Is that too much to ask?

    • Broken

      Tiff.. I too am married to a “social butterfly” who thought his casual flirting and comments to woman were ok and acceptable. I told him for years how much it hurt me, how flirting and talking to other woman and having friendships with single woman hurt me. He never listened and I just turned away and accepted his behavior as him being him. Then it happened… will be 1 year on Thursday I found out he was having an EA with a coworker. I read him the definition of an emotional affair. Does he keep it hidden from you, does he lie about what he says, are you a part of the friendship or are you the third party looking in? Can you answer yes to these questions? Then he is having an EA and you are about to enter the most difficult thing you will ever do in your life. He has crossed the boundaries that we all have to follow in a marriage. He may not want to see it or he doesn’t see it yet or will try and make it seem like its all you but its not. This is a good place for you to start…this forum saved my life. Confront him, don’t pull back unless you are ok with his behavior. He needs to repress who he isn’t …..a single man. He is married to you….his conversations and energy should be saved for you. When a husband is talking with other woman they are giving away time and energy that should be directing and saved only for you.. My husband can be very difficult….he does some really cruel things at times but he has changed considerably. Yours can to. This could be the beginning of the rest of your life. Be strong. Come back for support…someone is always here.

    • TW

      I found out my H was having an EA with an old high school freind in May. They had never dated in high school but always had a ‘thing’ for eachother. It had been going on for about 3 years, but about 2 month before I found out he had decided that he couldn’t deny it anymore, he was in love with her. A total suprise to me when I uncovered email threads between the 2 of them. I was devistated and asked him to choose right there and then. He chose her. He has battled with his choice for the last few months, and on 2 further occasions has chosen her again. We have no children, but have been together for 18 years and are currently living apart. The communiction is very strained. I know that there was something missing for us both in our marriage, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. But we had a marriage that most people envied (until I found out). He says he still loves me, but keeps choosing her. I keep holding on because I think he is making a very big mistake and I like to think in my heart that if he still loves me that there could be a chance. But when do you say enough is enough? I feel like I have tried everything but he seems to have signed out of our 18 year relationship without even attempting to save it. When the will to save the marriage seems so one sided, when do you just give up? The pull to the OW is so strong and the fog is so thick.

      • Brian Too

        Hey TW, Just remember it is not you. You didn’t break him and you are not responsable for his actions. It takes two people for every relationship to work out. Sometime in the next few months, you may try to reflect on wether or not it could have been avoided or if you should have done things different. Of course we all could have, but in the end it would have taken the same path. I have realized, and you may also, that this EA had to happen in my life in order to move forward in life. It may have been earlier or even later in the relationship, but inevitably, it had to happen. Now it is your time to grow and get very smart. Talk to safe people and maybe a very good therapist, it truley helps. Talk about you hopes, dreams, sadness, fears, and don’t hold back. Rememeber that you are the only one that wants this relationship to work. Even though he is involved emotionally with another person, he is not thinking clearly and all of us here know that his actions are wrong. He just doesnt know it. The whole idea of looking to someone else to fill a void is just a symptom of a graeter problem. This problem has to be addressed between your H and a professional therapist. And hopefully together in the future as a couple to keep it strong after this is over. There is no quick fix that I have found, but don’t hurry and get desperate with your actions. If you truley love him and he you, it will eventually work out. This is true, because this EA he has is only based on deceit and lies and how can he have a relationship with anyone with these morales. One thing I can’t understand in all EA’s is how can a person be truly happy if they look to another for filling that void. Without first addressing that with there loved one, it will never truley work out with any other person. Look to the present and next day only. Do not dwell on the past because this is not what we can control. Do not give up, but move forward. Do the things you love to do. Even though he is not there emotionally, he sees you and what you are there for. There is a reason you have been in his life for 18 years. I have been married for 21 years and my wife has recently moved out. Emotionally she is a wreck and she is the one that had the EA. She is slowly finding out all the things that she is doing to herself and her family. One thing she has not done is accepted the fact that only she, can make things better. I have done all I can do and now it is up to her. Admitting one has a problem is the hardest thing. Hopefully your H can admit it is his problem and seeks help. Just recently my W has said something about going back to the Therapist on her own. I hope so, because I cant do it. It must come from within. Take it slow and be good for yourself. Stay healthy, happy, and be good to youreslf. If he sees you are happy without him and not a wreck, believe me, it will turn him around. Take care for now.

        B

    • jewel

      My husband had (is it over, I don’t know) an Emotional Affair online with an old friend (I despise facebook and all it’s kin and will never use them again). He came to me one day and said “M” is in love with me and I think I’m in love with her. Can you believe, I felt guilty asking if it was physical? Appartently it wasn’t but i saw some records of conversations and I feel like my guts have been cut out of my body and are laying on the ground. He says he is in the marriage to work on it. But i am having such a hard time believing him. I have had issues in the past with depression and substance abuse and now he says he is afraid to commit because i’ll hurt him like i have in the past. so i FEEL like he is saying the EA is MY fault. How do you go on with this? when do the feelings of suspicion and hurt and all this pain go away. Why do I feel guilty? it feels grotesque that he would enter into this relationship and then make me feel guilty that i ask him to end it. like he should be able to “keep the only friend who understands him”. He protects her and her situation ( she is married to an abusive alcoholic but is catholic and is trying to save her marriage as well. Also, I believe she is afraid she would lose her kids if she left him. she hasn’t worked much out of the home) I’m losing my mind…any help. Please.

    • Broken

      Jewel it isnt your fault…Thats just one of the many excuses cheaters use to make themselves feel better. You are just beginning your journey and the pain that is associated with it. It is the worst pain I have ever felt and continue to…in smaller doses 1 year later. Please try not to feel guilty for something you didn’t do. Depression is a serious illness and no excuse to have an EA…I actually heard that one too. You cant work on a marriage with a third party present. It has to be you and him on the inside and ALL others on the outside looking in. It is not his responsibility to help her…it is his responsibility to help you and work on only your marriage. You have every right to ask him to end it and in fact you cant really help your marriage until he does. In the meantime you can work on yourself. Be strong and know that you are right. Suspicions are usually right and unfortunately fall under that umbrella of trust. It will take a very LONG time for that to return if ever. First up she needs to go. Read through this website…good advise from good people.

    • TW

      Thanx Brian Too, those were words I needed to hear and be reminded of. It is really hard at the moment. Some days I feel really good about getting on, and working on myself. Then other days I battle badly with how devalued I feel, that he could just dump our marriage without even wanting to try. I am so disappointed in him, that he could and continue to be so cruel and he cannot even see it. There really is a supreme selfishness in the behavior. Right now I don’t know that he will ever snap out of the fog, or if his ego could handle turning the situation around.

    • Brian

      TW: I was in a similar situation. My wife was caught up in an EA which was probably due to a mid life crisis (she and I agree on this… convenient excuse? maybe, but I don’t think so). For a while I was devastated and an emotional wreck but over time, 3-4 months, I have taken control of my life and convinced myself that my boys and I will have a full and happy life with or without her. It has made all the difference. Things are very much improved between us. She has chosen me and has promised me that she wants to remain married and to make it better than ever, as do I. I know I was responsible for some of the problems we had and I am working to change to avoid repeating these behaviors in the future. She is also working to be better by avoiding behaviors that we both agree hurt our relationship.

      Here’s a great site about MLC’s and how to deal with them:

      http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/a/surv_midlife.htm

      Here’s some of my favorite words of wisdom from that site:

      “You may have had a wonderful marriage. You may have been a couple who discussed and worked through every problem as it came up. You are no longer that couple and you have to do a 180 and not expect your spouse to care about your relationship or talking about your relationship. If your spouse has distanced himself/herself from you, insisting they talk about the relationship will only push them further away.

      Your spouse is going through changes that have caused him/her to lose interest in you and the relationship. That area of their life is low man on the totem pole right now. The more you attempt to discuss it the less interested they will become. It is human nature to want what we can’t have. Why should your spouse put any thought into a relationship with you if you are constantly reminding him/her how much you love them or want to save the marriage?

      You will get further with a midlife crisis spouse if at the same time they are distancing themselves from you, you distance yourself from them. So, instead of relationship talks, become mysterious, get a life, get out and make him/her wonder why you aren’t so focused on them.”

      TW, may God bless you and your husband during this very difficult time. It will take time and effort but give it your best effort. If after that things still are not as YOU need them to be to meets YOUR needs than you will at least know that you gave it your best shot. Take care.
      Brian

      • Sad Mad Wife

        Thanks Brian! I feel as though my H is experiencing MLC. These words brought me a bit of clarity.

    • sharkgirl

      I think my husband maybe in a MLC, she’s 20 years younger than him, lost his mum and friends, gym all the time, keeps saying he’s old, hates his job, etc… Im now at a loss, I feel all my reasons for staying are excuses for his behaviour. DDay was 3months ago and it would appear he’s never ended it and only just has, problem is I don’t really know why now.
      He told me wanted make it work with me and then text next morning saying he’s ended it with her and turning phone off to prove it – not sure how that works but this is the first attempt he’s made to prove anything. That night he told me again yes he wanted us and stopped for us.
      He obviously has cause she’s emailed him saying shocked, etc… and how she feels she loved him and they were close with future plans. Having seen his reply to her though he’s been telling us both the same things and this weekend took her to see a movie her saw with me the weekend before when we went away on an over night date at his suggestion.
      “I have never felt like I have with you, I was looking to settle down with you kids and all that, I can not explain how deep I feel for you,I am ending this for you,I will miss you totally,You are perfect. Never hate me remember me for the good time. God I will never forget them. You have learnt me me how to love again.”
      I don’t know if I know or just want to believe that it’s just the emotions of the affair, easing his guilt and trying make things better for her or is he telling me a pack of a lies
      I just feel now I always will think was I second best/choice, did he really feel like that about her, about me and our marriage. I guess I feel crushed not by what he’s had or done with her but the implications of what we didn’t have. He had every opportunity to walk but spent 3 months telling me he wanted me but continuing the affair. Was it real or not?
      He’s not living here so it really is a choice if I take that chance or not my head says no but my heart says one last chance but how many last chances, but I don’t think I have it in me physically or emotionally all my friends and family have supported me in my choices but are also now saying enough is enough and I know relations there could never be the same it’s just that divorce is so final but if it’s time to move on I need to start the process.
      I have to believe if we are meant to be we.
      This the hardest darkest place to be up and down, I just truly think I don’t have the courage and am trying to fight for what I feel it the right thing to do even if it isn’t right.

    • chase

      Hi, I found this incredible website and full of comments that are very helpful.

      I am not sure if this is a proper place for me to share my experience and get some advise…

      I have been involved with a married woman. At first it was physical then as always it turned into something more.
      She had a few affairs before me. The first man that she was with actually died of a hart attack, second left his wife and came to her, at which point she didn’t want to do anything with a single man. We spend a lot of time talking about different experiences that we had.
      Her x-lovers would take her to swing clubs and have wild sex. There was one instance when she and her husband hired a prostitute to have a 3-some with. At first all of this didn’t bother me, then I realized that I got my self into a deep mess with the wrong person.

      It got to a point where I didn’t want to go home and be with my family and children. My wife quickly suspected something and in turn I cut the affair off. My mistress didn’t understand why I would do such a thing. She kept suggesting that I have to be an actor and act at home, and still continue our affair. Afterall this is what she did with her husband, she acted and pretended that all was ok and he didn’t suspect anything. For some reason I could not do that.
      There were a lot of signs that I missed out on when I was seeing the mistress. She would lie to me and see other man. Since we live in different states I could not see her each week.
      We live about 2 hours away from each other. Therefore I could not drop my business and drive to see her each week. And I belive she had some one else while being with me.
      After I cut the affair off, she would still try to be in touch with me and wanting to see me, knowing well that I am having problems at home and I need to get over and move on.
      A few times I logged on to the website where I started chatting with her, and saw here there picking up man, just to get laid. Later when I confronted here of course she denied the whole thing.
      I know there is no future for me and her, and I am trying to find my way home.
      Can any one suggest anything?

      • Brian

        Chase: Stop this now… it’s a secret life that will drive you crazy. This OW obviously has issues and will only drag you down with her… sounds like she already is. And do you really expect her to be faithful to you and not be with anyone else? History suggests otherwise, doesn’t it?
        End the affair now, look into your marriage and why you strayed in the first place. Time to take the high road…
        Good luck.

    • roller coaster rider

      In my opinion, the only thing to do is to be honest with yourself. Why did you want to cheat on your wife in the first place? What is it that you were hoping to achieve by hooking up with this woman? I’m sorry, but she is nothing but trouble and you are in trouble with her. And what of your wife? Does she really deserve this? Why can’t you just be truthful with her if there is something missing in your marriage and seek help together? This secret will ruin you if you don’t get proactive.

    • Lynne

      Chase, as Dr Phil says “the best predictor of future behavior is, past behavior”. While you might have feelings for this other woman, your life will be forever changed by choosing her–and I don’t mean changed in a good way! Step back and look at her life and who she is, and recognize that you will be choosing a woman who is incapable of fidelity in a relationship. Would it be easier to commit to giving your marriage a fighting chance (and with no contact whatsoever with the OW), or to end up leaving your wife for a situation that has “absolute disaster ” written all over it?

    • Shocked

      Hope someone can help me to understand. Right now I feel so lost and don’t know what is the right thing to do. I found out my H was having a EA ( he still denies it and says the OW is just a friend and co worker). He tells me everyday he loves me and he will stop contacting her but he still is. How do I get past this and work on my marriage if he is still in contact with her daily? I even thought about finding a friend of my own but I really don’t want to. I make things up to try and hurt him but I know this is wrong also. I told him I don’t trust him any more and I even left him but came home after 4 days.

      What do I do? My anniversary is coming up and I feel my self beginning to resent my husband. I feel he should stop telling me he loves me because you don’t continue to hurt the people you love.

      • Brian

        Shocked: Sorry to hear you are going through this. As this thread says, it really is hard to stop an EA. All you can do is take care of yourself, emotionally and physically. Talk with someone, a friend, family member, or therapist to help you sort through all of the painful emotions you may be feeling. Also, keep active. Exercise regularly, go out with friends, meet new ones, get involved in various activities, etc. It will help you feel good about yourself and will keep you from obsessing about the EA, never a good thing. Your husband will notice. Hopefully, with time, he will realize that he will lose you if he doesn’t change his behavior.
        I went through the same thing with my wife. At first I was emotional wreck but then I realized that I needed to be strong for my boys, my marriage, and myself and that I needed to be a stable influence for our family. And you know what? My wife started coming around. We are not out of the woods yet but day-by-day, bit-by-bit, we are growing closer and our marriage is getter strong again. Different in some ways but that’s a good thing. Obviously we needed some changes. And the EA? It’s pretty much a thing of the past and I try not to think about it. Looking forward is so much more productive and I know that no matter what happens my boys and I will have full, happy lives and knowing that has made all the difference .
        May God bless you during this difficult time. Be strong. -Brian

    • Shocked

      Thank you Brian for your words of encouragement. I really needed them today. It seems like we argue every day now and I know its because he is still in contact with OW. He doesn’t know that I know so he says I’m being paranoid about him working with her. I even heard that he was talking to her about avoiding me when I came to pick him up.

      Yet he swears to me that he isn’t speaking to her.
      It hurts. He called me today and we ended up arguing about his job and he asked me if I wanted him to quit. I said yes, the problem is he is the only one working right now so I feel I’m being unrealistic. I asked him if may be he could put in for a transfer instead to a different location. I feel now like I’m pushing him away with the constant fighting and may be I will push him into her arms. It’s so scary to think that yes I will stand up for my self and tell him what I expect in this marriage but on the other hand may be I need to back off and show him that I can make it without him if he decides to leave.
      We have been together for 11 years and have 4 kids, I want this to work but only because we both still want to be together.

      He tells me over and over that I’m the person he loves and the person he wants to be with but he goes to work and waits until she is ready so they can talk on the way out.

      His actions are confusing, he feels like because they are no longer texting or calling that they are just being co -workers but I feel like because he already crossed the line with her there can be no contact for fear of him slipping right back into the same type of conversations they had in the past.

    • sharkgirl

      I’ve just ended my marriage because I know longer no what is true. He stayed in contact with her 50-60 texts a day phone calls 40mins at 11.30pm I mean WTF. He’s constantly said he wanted me and she’s just friends and he’s waiting for it to dwindle. We went away the other weekend for the night to see if we could get back on track only soon as my back was turned he was texting her I ended it and filed for divorce. Then he really wants me and finally ends it, only he tells her he’s ended it for her because it won’t work, he loves her, she’s his soulmate and all this other heart breaking stuff that has made me question our whole marriage. Even took her to see the same film we went to see on our night away whilst waiting for my answer if we could make it work, you don’t go to see a film and bowling when you are breaking it off with some one which is what he said he was doing. He can’t stop lying and I know longer know what to believe, I’ve also realised I know longer care,m I can’t see him back in my house and I don’t miss him. I fought, and I don’t blame you for that but I knew it was over just couldn’t do it and then like so many people told me the clarity came and I was happy with the decision.
      I couldn’t live with him working with her and that risk and knowing he can lie so easily, and I don’t know if he does want me I’d like to believe he does that it’s all just words to her and his feelings aren’t reality. Who knows.
      I also believe in fate though so if we are meant to be we will but right now I have to do what’s best for me and my kids and divorce is.
      I’ve realised in this situation no of act how we think we would and you can become this person your not, your friends will advise and support you but you alone will know when a decision is right. You’ll never be a 100% becasue this is such a huge thing and until you know it’s time to leave you fight and do whatever you think you have to becasue this is you life.

      • Lynne

        It sounds like you’ve done the right thing here. I believe that boundaries are really important in these situations, and that you must know and be able to communicate what yours are. To think that he can continue to carry on this way with her, while still in his marriage with you, is absolutely ludicrous. And you are correct, you don’t go bowling and to a movie with the OW to end it…..an email or phone call would suffice. It really sounds as if he playing both of you.

        Take good care of yourself and your children, and move on to a better life for all of you. You are clearly the positive role model in their lives–he is not!

    • Shocked

      Brian, I know every EA is different and it depends on the people involved but I would really like to know/understand how long will this take. If he is at the stage where he admits he is wrong for what he did but still thinks there is no harm in remaining friends with the OW. How long should I wait in the wings for him to come back to me completely. This so out of character for him he always said he hated people who cheated on their spouse and if he was going to cheat on me he would leave or get a divorce 1st.

      • Brian

        Shocked: I really wish I knew… my wife and I are doing better but she still texts the OM once in a while, still insisting they are “just friends”. So we are certainly not 100% yet. It’s been about 7 months since I learned of the EA and who knows how much longer it will be until we are both fully healed. It could be a slow gradual thing that happens over years. Undoubtedly there will be setbacks… kind of a “two steps forward, one step back” thing, but as long as we are generally headed in the right direction, I’m willing to hang in there. It took my wife 5 months and me about to move out before she was willing to change her behavior. It seems that there is a process that we must go through and the sooner the betrayed spouse can let go, start to take care of themself, accept that they will be ok no matter what, and, most importantly, be prepared to walk away from the marriage if their needs aren’t being met, the sooner the process will unfold. It’s not easy but apparently necessary.
        Like Broken says never make a life-changing decision when you are emotional. Give it time, work on yourself, back off a bit and see where things go. I hope and pray things work out for you.

        • Lynne

          Brian, I’m curious as to why you haven’t set a boundary for “no contact” at all with the OM? Isn’t there great risk if she is doing this at all?

          • Brian

            Lynne, it’s something I wrestle with all the time. Like I said, in her mind they are nothing more than friends, but she is cutting way back on her contact because she knows it bothers me and therefore hurts our relationship. If I demand no contact, again in her mind, I am basically saying she can’t have friends of the opposite sex. We are trying to get to a place that we both can live with. I guess I’m looking forward to the day where he is just not a factor without giving her an ultimatum of “it’s me or him”. If goes sour again then maybe I will have to demand no contact, but for now we’ll see…

            • Broken

              Brian you are stronger then I could ever be. If my husband had contact with the OW of any kind it would be over for me. NEVER will I put myself in that situation again. We made an agreement that if by some random accident he runs into her (highly unlikely since she lives in another town) he will A. immediately leave the premises and B. immediatley call me. That is the only way I can have it for me.

            • Gizfield

              I’m just wondering, when did we become a society that thinks it is more important to have”friends” of the opposite sex than to have a marriage and family? I mean my parents didnt, and my othe friends parents didnt, etc. does anyone else see a a common thread here? Maybe if we tried to center ourselves on what is actually important, this crap could be avoided. At any rate, my soon to be ex is free to talk to his “friend” for hours, days, weeks, months, years, centuries, eternity……

    • Broken

      Shocked….every marriage is different…every affair different but the bottom line is you can’t recover from an affair as a couple if the cheating spouse continues to have contact with the OW. You should not wait in the wings. You should INSIST ON NO CONTACT. There can be no waiting after work to talk to her, no texting, NOTHING. Financially it sounds like he can’t leave but putting in for a transfer …he can do. Unfortunately people dont go from the incredible, devastating pain you are feeling right now to it all of a sudden its over. Its a VERY long process to will go through both alone and together and how long you are willing to wait for him to get his head out of the clouds is your decision but you need to set up your boundries and be strong. Work on yourself and be there for your kids as much as possible and make it clear you are not going to tolerate that kind of behavior…not now, not ever. Read some books…Not Just Friends, Shattered Vows ect…. there are many to turn to. Hang in there for awhile,,,you should never make a decision like divorce when you are in an emotional state. I hate to tell you this but when both of you are working on repairing your marriage most experts say 2-5 years to heal. It has been 1 year for me and while it is better…it still hurts like nothing I have ever felt.
      You have many options…..you can expose the affair to family and friends…..even work. You can tell the OW spouse…you can contact the OW. All options you can explore. This is not your fault.

    • Shocked

      Thank you Brian and Broken for you help.

      I’m at the point now where he is responsible for him and I will be responsible for my and my kids. The latest is I confronted him again because I found new proof (phone call logs) from our home phone that he is still in contact with this woman. We fought again and the sad part was my kids heard me crying and possible a little of the conversation. I forced my self to calm down and talk quietly because of them. So we were able to talk to each other instead of fight and yell. I feel like crap now because I don’t want my kids to know about this. I asked him why he is still in contact with her and lying and hiding it.

      He feels bad because the kids heard us.He said he doesn’t know why he is still calling her and now he finally admitted he is sending her emails thru the office computer. He still says that she is just a friend and this friendship is no different from his other female co-workers. For me this is it, yes I want to fight for my marriage but I can’t fight by my self. Now he says that he will not tell me anymore what he will or will not do concerning her, he will just go ahead and do what he needs to do.

      So now I’m just waiting for him to prove that he wants his wife and kids like he keeps telling me. He told me he doesn’t want me to leave and we are going to work on our marriage and get thru this. I can only trust action at this point so I’ll take this one day at a time.

    • Jessica

      Shocked,
      Does he let you read the messages and email? She is not a friend to your marriage a book broken recommended Not Just Friends is a great book to read and gave me alot of insight and clarity.

    • Lynne

      Hi Brian-

      Maybe I’m confused about your situation (I find myself confused a lot these days!!!), but is the man she is communicating with her AP?

    • Broken

      Shocked….His friendship with the OW is DIFFERENT then with other coworkers because he is hiding it and lying about it. We can all have friends who are of the opposite sex but ONLY if they are friends of our marriage. It must be you and him and your friends that are friends of your marriage…in other words people who respect the sanctity of your marriage…respect that you are a couple and lift up your marriage . This OW is not a friend of your marriage….she is a selfish, self serving individual. In order for you to even begin recovery he can have no contact with the OW and his life must be transparent to you. You must have access to everything and he must be willing to give it to you.
      The way he proves he wants your marriage to work is by cutting off all contact with her, being totally transparent with his life.
      My husband cheated with a coworker as well. From the day I found out he has had absolutely no contact with her and I can read all of his emails, texts, phone bill anything I want and without that I would not be where I am today. Trust is the biggest issue you will face. One that will not come easily especially if you dont know what he is doing. It is one day at a time…sometimes one minute at a time. I remember with vivid clarity where you are right now and it is nothing short of hell. This is a very long process and it is a process that you will go through. The pain is great right now and you are questioning how the one person in your life who you thought would never do this…did it. You will question your sanity (and they will make you feel like you are going crazy) …your not. You will wonder what is wrong with me (nothing). You must set up boundries and not let him get away with saying he isn’t going to tell you anything about her anymore……wrong. Yes he is or your marriage will not work. Full disclosure, full transparency, no contact. In the meantime hang in there…I know its hard and you probably think the pain will never end…I promise it will get better.

      • Brian

        So true. My wife and I talked about this just the other night and we both agreed that friends of the opposite sex must be friends to both of you and, therefore, friends of the marriage. If otherwise it leads to problems. She actually brought it up! Nice when it’s her idea…

    • Brian

      Yes it is. She was texting him excessively and seeing him several times without my knowledge although she swears it was just a friendship and nothing physical happened (I believe her). When she started behaving differently, distancing herself from me, I checked her phone usage and confronted her. It was then I got the “I love you, but…” line. It got to the point where I was ready to move out but she asked me to stay and try to work it out. I did and she’s been more affectionate, intimate with me and not seeing the OM/friend at all and just a text here and there which she sees nothing wrong with since it’s just a friendship. Not ideal, I know, but things are much better so I’ll wait and see…
      FWIW, Lynne, I’m confused much of the time too… thanks for listening.

    • Shocked

      Jessica: No the emails are on the office computer at work and I can’t see them. He says that they are monitored but there is no way for me to verify this.

      I called the OW home # today which neither of them knew I even had and I told her this is a courtesy call and I asking her to stay away from him not even say hi to him. I told her I am calling her home # because I need her to understand how serious this is. She is responsible for her part in this as is my H. I did this because I’m aware that my H could be telling her anything at work. So I made sure that I was clear on her having NC with him at all. I also said what she does after this is her way of telling me where I need to take this.
      I made sure not to leave any threats towards anyone and I also said stop lying to your boyfriend I hope he hears it but even if he doesn’t she can’t say she didn’t know how I felt about this. I mean if this is just a friendship why are you leave thru a different exit to avoid your “CO-WORKERS” wife . Please I refuse to allow them to minimize this to make them feel better about whats going on.

    • sharkgirl

      It was the e-mails that killed me, he was telling me one thing and her something else. She wouldn’t listen to me because she want’s him, he’s the love of her life and she wanted a future and family with him. Even when he did finally stop he couldn’t keep away and soon was ‘Hi how are you, how was your weekend’. I know with work it would’ve started again because she was fighting for him too and the only person not really fighting was my husband and you can’t save a marriage on your own. The question is how long you wait, I said me or her and he turned it round on me – I couldn’t dictate who he was friends with and I either accepted it or divorced him at which point the counsellor told me it was ok to sit on the fence. I reached the point where I knew with her around we never stood a chance and he never wanted it enough to stop. It kills me knowing what you’re going through and I’m having a down day today because I know he’ll have spent today with her. I’m still strong though and not wanting to change my mind, it’s now a new path with it’s own obstacles but I know it leads to a happy place

      • Healing Mark

        When I found out about my wife’s EA, I, too, insisted on no further contact. I made this clear to both my wife and her AP, and each agreed to stop communications/contact, although with my wife it took some arguing with our marriage counsellor over whether not having contact was something that would really be necessary to get past the affair. From your post it is clear that you are getting counselling. Hopefully, your husband is getting some himself and the two of you are also meeting jointly with the same counsellor.

        For reasons that are not important here, my wife later adopted the “you can’t dictate who my friends are” mantra and insisted that she be able to maintain a relationship with the AP that was within agreed upon boundaries. My wife is sensitive to being controlled (for much of our marriage she liked giving control of most things to me, but this has now changed so we are working on a happy medium with not much history to fall back on), and I trusted the AP when he apologized for about the 20th time for the EA and swore that it had not only ended, but would never start back up again and that he would see to it that it never did. I believe he woke up to the fact that he was about to really mess up his family and that was not worth the “fun” he and my wife were having during the EA. As a result, I agreed to allow occasional texts or emails and phone calls with a purpose other than just to talk provided that my wife let me know anytime this occurred. I further rationalized my allowing continued contact and the triggers this created as a way of my wife regaining my trust, as well as the fact that not only was I obsessing with monitoring accounts to establish that no contact was taking place, but also due to the fact that there were many ways that my wife could contact the AP if she wanted with little chance that I would be able to find out about it.

        The first few times she texted the AP, I felt terrible and this certainly made it more difficult to get past the EA. However, the communications were so bland and uneventful and even downright boring, that I felt less and less threatened. Also, I’m lucky in that for a couple of months they texted about 4 or 5 times and, to my knowledge, have had no contact since the beginning of August. Weirdly, my wife still texts occasionally with the AP’s wife and talks with her on the phone at least once a month. Go figure!

        Sharkgirl, I feel for you, in that the OW is apparently actively pursuing your husband, and he seems oblivious to the damage that his relationship with her is causing to your health and wellbeing, not to mention your marriage. Under the circumstances, his continuing contact with the OW is a conscious decision on his part to hurt you, and could perhaps be characterized as emotional abuse. Does he really want to do this? It’s a pretty shitty thing to do. Even if my wife was being totally unreasonable and was asking me to end a friendship with another woman that I had established while my wife and I were married, I love and care for my wife and her feelings, whether warranted or not, about the damage a continued friendship would cause would so outweigh the applicable friendship. There are too many people out there for me to be friends with to try to maintain one friendship that was causing, and would continue to cause, problems with my marriage.

        This may be a bit dramatic, but your husband’s interactions with this woman hurt you, correct? Also, does he really need to know how her weekend was? Would your husband hurt you if he hit you? Of course he would. Would your husband intentionally hit you and as a result knowingly hurt you? Probably not. So, why does he choose to do something that hurts you that is thus not much different than physically hitting you? Physical abuse is a real no-no in today’s society. Emotional abuse should be equally shunned.

        Hang in there and do all that you can to help yourself.

        Healing Mark

        • Brian

          Hey Mark,
          Your situation sounds very much like mine. My wife too is very sensitive about being controlled regarding her male friends. There are two that are her friends but not mine, one is an old friend from before our marriage (19 years) the other is relatively new friend. Her relationship with either could be considered EA’s if you read the books (discussing personal issues, secret contact, etc) but the new friendship was the more worrisome of the two. We are also trying to strike a balance where minimal contact is ok but one-on-one meetings are not, that kind of thing. Since she has recommited to our marriage, she has cut way back on her texting, etc (I have verified) and things are much better between us as far as physical and emotional intimacy. She has shown me that our relationship is the priority and these friendships back-burner stuff.
          Am I totally satisfied with the way things are? No, but I figure we are in the middle innings of our crisis and I’m trying to see it through.
          Mark, you mentioned the texts between your wife and the AP were bland and boring. Did you ask to see them or did she volunteer them? My wife has shown me some but certainly not all of her texts.
          Sharkgirl, I may very well get to the point where, like you, I need to force her to make a decision… who knows? Right now I’m just trying to let her make that decision on her own. We’ll see. Be strong and have faith that things will be ok and they will be. God bless.
          Brian

          • Healing Mark

            Brian, when reading many of your posts, I have noticed many similarities in terms of what it appears we have both been going through. Also, your advice on many matters has, in my opinion, been quite insightful and certainly helpful.

            My wife has several male friends from before we met that she has communicated off and on with over our 20 years together. I have never felt threatened, and none of these relationships (several are old boyfriends who have married and have children and appear happy with their respective lots in life) has had any kind of a negative impact on my relationship with my wife. In analyzing these relationships and comparing them to the one she developed with her EA, my wife and I have both concluded that she has kept her friendships with these men within appropriate boundaries. The biggest difference between her relationships with these men and her AP, duh, is that she feels no attraction towards them, and thus they have all been, and continue to be, “just friends”. Ha!

            Another thing, I have met almost all of these friends at one time or another, and my wife has never been secretive in terms of her communications with them. Nevertheless, when she became friends with a guy that previously was just my friend (he really was until he screwed up big time), became attracted to him unlike any attraction she had experienced since she fell in love with me, and was then pursued by this person not, for sexual reasons, but for emotional support and fun times that my friend is not able to get from his wife for physical and mental reasons (she has health issues and frequent siezures), my wife “changed” and her developing relationship with this “friend” began to damage our relationship, which only further fueled the fires of the EA. I give my wife credit for ending the EA without me even knowing (I had pretty strong suspicions and she has said that she was afraid that she would not be able to lie about it anymore at the time she and her AP decided to backoff and truly just be friends, not affair partners), and for about 7 months until D-day my wife and friend interacted in a manner not that much different than she interacts with other male friends of ours.

            As you might imagine, I have never seen texts that my wife sent to her AP during the EA. My wife confided in 2 female friends about the EA and the ending of it, and how it had not been an easy thing to do. For some reason after a fight I looked at her phone after she was asleep and she had left on there a long text conversation with one of these friends that pretty much let me know that my suspicions had been correct. When then confronted, she confessed to the EA. She did leave many emails they exchanged during the EA on her Gmail, and some of them showed how she and our friend had been acting inappropriately. However, emails exchanged after the EA apparently ended (not that many) were all pretty bland and boring.

            As a condition to continued contact with our friend, my wife has agreed to show me all text conversations, and she knows that if she deletes anything I will be able to find out and then no further contact will be put back into place. My friend knows this as well. It’s the conversations that she has shown me since then that have been bland and boring. And, thank God, there have been no texts for about 6 weeks, and my wife has admitted that after having been ignored for several weeks and after several texts along the lines of “How are you and your family? Would love to talk some time.” that have gone unanswered, she does not think that a continued friendship with the AP will be possible and that she is fine with that. Sad, but fine with it.

            God bless all who have to deal with a spouse that is in the midst of an EA which has been discovered and not immediately ended. I don’t know what I would have done if this had been the case with me. It still hurts knowing that my wife went a little crazy for a while and fell in love with another man. I’m also disappointed in my friend not nipping things in the bud when he should have, but my wife did satisfy many needs that this guy had that his wife could not, and I believe both of them when they have said that it took a while for negative impacts of their new relationship to dawn on them, and for them to get into a position to decide whether to continue with the affair and potentially hurt both of our families and others, or to end it and begin acting in a manner so that nobody would suspect that anything bad had happened.

    • sharkgirl

      I read these and wonder did I give up to soon but I know we’d sadly hit the point of no return I couldn’t carry on fighting on my own, and it breaks my heart even though I know it is the right thing. The hardest thing now is not knowing his next move and the fear he will go and be with her and then she eventually becomes part of my childrens lives, furnishing their rooms at his house buying them things. It’s not just grieving for my lost dreams but knowing they were well and truly trampled on and feeling they are going to be passed to someone else. I’ve realised today I’m fantasising he’s going to be going and having this great life with her, just need to accept now that’s exactly what it is fantasy. Without his kids his life will never be truly full nor till he deals with the real issues that caused the affair will he be able to move on properly. I do believe these feelings are as much a sympton of the affair as anything else and reality will make them see their relationship for what it is. Pity this will come too late. I love this site and the suport, the rationale, I hate the ones where people are so quick to tell you to get rid, it’s what I’d have said but in this situation it’s completely different, It’s not something I’d wish on my worst enemy but karma will ensure equilibrium.

    • Brian

      Again, very similar… one guy is an old boyfriend but is just a friend now. He actually is supportive of me and tells my wife that I’m good man and she should thing twice about screwing things up with me. The other guy is more worrisome. I know she is attracted to him and, in her words, is “fun to be with”. She realized it was a slippery slope and decided that recommit to our marriage she would have to cut back sharply on all contact with him, although she still sees it as just a friendship. She never shared the details of her relationship with the AP with anyone; not her friends, not her sisters, noone… which is very telling, don’t you think?
      I’m glad some of my comments have been helpful but I certainly don’t have all the answers. I just know what has worked for me and what hasn’t. So far. I know that obsessing over the affair is ruinous to the marriage. It put me in a terrible place that was unattractive and weak. When I stopped snooping and started working on myself good things started to happen. Even if things didn’t improve in my marriage I would have been better off for the future.
      For all of the betrayed spouses out there, don’t forget how special you are, be strong, and make your life the way you want it to be. It may be different than you planned but it can still be great.

      • Healing Mark

        Let me second what Brian has said. I too found nothing much good happening in my life and my marriage during the time I was obsessing about the affair. I too found myself acting in a way that my wife also found unattractive and weak. Perhaps other straying spouses are like my wife, but she was truly sorry for what had happened and for the mistakes she made and lies she told. As a result, she very, very much wanted everything to get back as much as possible to “normal”. And by “normal” I mean that she not only wanted my foregiveness with a mutual understanding that another affair would almost certainly result in a fairly ugly divorce, but she also wanted our marriage to be back to the happy and successfully functional place it was before the EA devoloped and continued. And, in order for things to be “normal”, I had to get over obsessing about the EA and getting sad/mad when triggers would occur. She very much wanted a “healed” husband which, of course, means much less talking/thinking about the EA. I also adopted the mantra of improving myself and existing friendships and trying not to reel in my wife when I felt her slipping away to the EA (I didn’t know what the “deal” was with her for the worse changed personality, but had suspicions), reasoning as well that if this helped our marriage, great, and if it didn’t at least I would feel better about myself and my relationships with others beside my wife.

        I agree! Not sharing the “friendship” with others should have been a huge red flag that this relationship was not appropriate. But damn the hormones and whatever else begins flowing through the veins of the person getting caught up in an EA. Common sense, at least with my wife, flew so fast and far out of the window it made all our heads spin. My wife is so fearful of other people knowing about the EA, and just the word “affair” bothers her to no end because of the negative connotations surrounding it (I agree). She can’t bear the thought of our children finding out, and I am amazed in a way that other BS’s out there have told children, although if the BS is moving out what else are you going to do, lie? That said, it turns out that a woman that she grew close to at about the same time as the EA began, who is actually a really great woman and friend to my wife and our marriage, developed an EA with a former serious boyfriend at a time that her marriage was not doing so well. So as you can imagine, these two had quite a bit to talk about, and fortunately this friend got over her EA (never told husband, though, and that’s why she I think correctly opined that my wife should not come out and confess the EA but should certainly end it unless she intended to end the marriage) and led my wife and I to the same marriage counsellor that helped her and her husband get back to a much healthier and happier marriage.

        The second confidant I’m not too pleased with. While I am told that she loves me and wants what’s best for my wife and I (she acts this way with me and always has, so I believe it), this woman is a mess! Her marriage was in a rut, and we all kind of knew this. She went on a cruise with her sister and met a man whe she was attracted to. They fooled around a lot on the cruise, but apparently no sex. She kept up the affair from afar, and only recently went to visit this new man, allegedly with the blessing of her husband, and finally had sex with him. Let me just say that she and her husband are now emotional wrecks and I don’t know if their marriage is going to survive this. Luckily, this confirms what my wife thought would happen if she and her AP had sex, so at least I have that going for me (nod to Bill Murray here).

        Brian, none of us, of course, have all the answers. But I like to think that others get the kind of comfort that I often get looking at posts at this site. We are not alone, there is hope, we all make mistakes, there is no quick fix, etc. So keep chiming in dude, and have a great weekend with your family!

        Healing Mark

        • Paula

          HM, I really enjoy your posts, they are intelligent and insightful, and you sound like you have a really great handle on things. I do have a little question, though, I hope it doesn’t cause offense. If you are in such a good place now, why is this blog still such a regular part of your life? My feeling is that I still peruse it often, as I still feel a lot of pain, despite all of the knowledge I have, and actions I have taken, and it is my “dumping ground” for a good vent, or just to get the poisonous thoughts out of my brain, or just to meander away with my thoughts 🙂 as I don’t talk about this to anyone anymore, but that doesn’t mean I’m “healed.” It doesn’t mean I’m paralysed by it anymore either, I am functioning, I am looking after myself, I feel I have finally got out of the terrible funk I was in for several months, with some really thorough soul-searching. For some reason, I have, once again, been able to pep-talk myself into a better place. I’ve known that focussing on me and my needs is important, however, the habits of a lifetime of caring for others (kids, friends, partner, etc) are hard to change, and I would find myself compromising my wants/needs. I’ve just decided that I can’t afford to leave, and have the standard of living that I like (I know, sound like a spoilt brat, but just being realistic) and I can’t carry on being hollowed out and a non-person, so I am now just sucking it up, and believing that my choice is to stay and enjoy my OH for the truly wonderful friend he is, and forget about trying to make it better for now.

          Our youngest daughter is 13, and I am not leaving while she is at home, and I realise I have turned into that most despised of people, and am staying, at least partially, for the children, I won’t be able to afford private education, and I doubt I will be able to afford to move into an area that has the high standard of state education they are currently enjoying, SO not what I would have done even a year ago, as I thought it a stupid way to live your life. However, other than my sadness, pain and fear over the affair, my life is pretty good, and I’m not giving that away. Just looking online at some new educational possibilities for me, I think I might start a new degree next year, I have to make some positive moves instead of just muddling along. I think I’ve muddled along, to a degree, quite happily for a long time, as it seemed to be working out okay, not anymore, time to drive the ship instead of being such a passenger.

          I had a really good chat with OH the other night, and had a real lightbulb moment when I realised that I had changed from being a very assertive young woman to being a bit subservient, and that was some of the reason that he had the affair in the first place, she was a strong, single, mother of one, and a driven career woman, with nannies/ cleaners to mop up after her, whereas I had put everyone else first for years, and “gone with the flow” so as not to rock the boat. My OH is very stubborn, and I think I learnt early on that he always seemed to get things the way he wanted, and mostly that was fine with me, it seemed to work, he made good decisions (cough, cough, usually!!!) so I gave up fighting with him over my wants/needs, and just adapted mine to fit in with his. He is only now starting to realise that he comes from a family where you don’t really say what you want, you just do what you want, even after discussing what works for everyone, you do what you want anyway! Example, his 82 year old father came in yesterday, to proudly announce that he’d just been to a sale and bought, on our behalf, a yearling bull “for us” and then when asked what he’d paid for it, announced that he’d paid $1000 more than OH and he had agreed upon only a week earlier! OH was furious and told him so, Grandad slunk away, thinking, I’m sure, “but he’s a really nice bull, what did I do wrong?” This morning, his mother rung to say the reason he had paid so much was because their 3 stud heifers are running with our 30 commercial heifers, and they wanted a better quality of bull to run with them, so they now offered to pay half. OH immediately said no way, you’re not paying half (they’re retired, breed beef cattle as a hobby) and said, why didn’t Grandad tell us that when he was having the discussion the other day, then we would have understood, and maybe he could have offered to pay the $1000 difference (or similar) then, with PRIOR knowledge of everyone’s wants and needs!!! My frustration with his family is now growing, as I have stood by and let this kind of thing happen for 24 years, without saying anything, and all of them have been completely unsupportive, and damaging to us. And I thought I had it so good with them for years!!! This is the exact way my OH has been with me, too, and I’m only now just seeing it clearly, that’s why the discussions over the years about making sure that overlapping relationships was something we would never do, or tolerate, and if there was ever a sexual misdemeanour (and that wasn’t considered acceptable either, but mistakes occur in some people’s relationships, eg drunken one night stand, be realistic) that it was IMPERATIVE that condoms were to be used, these talks were all ignored, because that was me stating what I needed, to feel safe and secure, but he just did what he wanted, regardless, so it was a huge waste of my time and effort even mentioning any of it.

          Phew, that was long, sorry about that, but you see what I mean by a vent!

          Wishing everyone more good days than bad 🙂

          • melissa

            Hi Paula
            You’re not alone. Like you, I’ve made a conscious decision to stay (for the moment) because it would be very difficult financially otherwise. It’s not a ‘bad’ decision, it’s a realistic one.

            However, this does not mean that we don’t need to work on our marriage and make it better, which I hope we are doing. BUT I now think I know the limits, what I’m prepared to live with and I also know that I need to be more assertive.

            Your point about your husband’s family where they all do what they want has hit home for me too. This is exactly what my H and his brothers do (his sisters are great, much more grounded).

            Also like you, I don’t talk about the EA anymore (I try not to), even to my friends (apart from one, when I’m really anxious) and it doesn’t mean I’m ‘healed’ either. Thankfully this site really helps and I’m grateful to Doug and Linda for keeping it going.

            • Paula

              Hi Melissa

              I do enjoy my OH, we have always been the very best of friends, one of the things he said was that when he was right in the depths of his affair, and considering choosing her over me and our kids, was that he could see two things, one, how selfish and attention-seeking OW was, and two, how great our friendship had always been. He said he could visualise us separating, her moving in, and six months later, he and myself meeting for coffee, to chat about kids and life, continuing our close friendship, and him sadly admitting to me he’d made the biggest mistake of his life, that she was a bitch, maybe she was having an affair (that is what she’s always done in the past, she did it to him with at least four guys when they were young, he didn’t know until a mutual friend of theirs told him, after this friend thought he was going to marry her, and wanted to save my OH from the pain of that) and he’d stuffed up, made the wrong decision, and looking at me, getting on with my life (as he was so sure I would!! lol) having fun, enjoying my work/kids/friends, looking stunning (lol, again!) maybe a new man, and think to himself, I’ve just screwed this up so badly. That was the moment when he realised who he wanted, unfortunately, as he pulled back from her, she stuck her claws in, and hung on really tight for another 9 months, emotionally, and financially, blackmailing him, as he back pedalled furiously, trying to shift her bunny-boiling a…

              I just have invested so much energy into constantly trying to find a “fix,” something to make me feel secure and happy, and I think it’s time to just forget about that for now, just carry on, remember to look after me better, and see where that takes me, whether I’ll ever feel whole again. I’m okay, just a long way from where I want to be, still grieving for my lost trust and innocence, and the beautiful relationship I had once, I’m sure people think I’m kidding myself here when I talk about what a lovely thing we had, but it’s true, we were pretty damn great 98 percent of the time.

              We are having a much better time together, I think he senses my decision, and he wants to be closer than ever, still loads of love here, and that’s a more comfortable place than I’ve been for many months, I’m just putting the struggling feelings on hold, and kind of distancing myself from it all. The only downside to this, is my usually high libido, and enjoyment in sex has gone, I’m numb and a bit dead inside, as every time I try to switch on, and connect with him sexually, I get the awful sexual images of them together, and what they did, or might have done, etc, so much easier to just leave the switch off, for now, although I know that is not a permanent solution!

          • Healing Mark

            Paula, no offense taken. I have wondered the same thing myself at times. I’m like you with respect to often using this site to vent or otherwise deal with hurt resulting from my wife’s EA. Unlike you, I chose not to discuss the EA with anyone other than our marriage counsellor, and that was only during two sessions (we had months prior to D-day stopped our sessions with this counsellor as we had identified areas we needed to work on and my wife and I were generally happy with where we were a that point in our marriage; it helped that the EA had been ended prior to counselling and that my wife was fully committed to investing 100% of her emotional attention/energy to me and our family). I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with your discussing your husband’s affair with others, it’s just that in my case doing so would have made recovery for me and my wife much more difficult if not impossible.

            While forgiveness has taken place and the EA is behind my wife and I, the EA and its effects are not forgotten and it sometimes helps me to remember and accept this when I look at certain posts where betrayed spouses are similarly moving on positively in their lives. I also find certain posts by either Doug or Linda to be helpful as they appear to be at a place in their marriage similar to where my wife and I are.

            Unfortunately, I see in many posts the pain and suffering that I, too, went through after discovering that my wife had had an EA. I guess I feel that if I can chime in at times with any advice or shared experiences, someone out there might feel a bit better and begin to have some hope that all can well some day. I know that at times in the beginning I truly doubted if I would ever be able to forgive my wife and also trust her enough to stay married to her. The hope I gained through information and ideas presented on this site, and through other means, was so crutial to convincing me to hang in there and let the healing happen in due time. So in a way, I consider my time and involvement on this site as a way of giving back and sort of a “thank you” to all that have helped me in ways they might or might not have imagined.

            Finally, my heart goes out to all spouses whose partners are presently unable to end their EA’s or PA’s. Your road ahead is much more difficult than the road that my wife and I have travelled. But as you can see, all is not lost as affairs have taken place, been ended and the applicable marriages successfully re-built. The “how” is what you seek and hopefully you wil gain some insight in this regard from this site.

            Healing Mark

            • Paula

              So well put, HM, as usual! The only person I talked to about this was really my best girlfriend, she had been questioning my OHs “friendship” with OW, and I had been defending both of them to her, saying that’s just how our relationship is, we trust each other, etc. She said she wouldn’t allow her H to have that kind of friendship with another woman, they have a good marriage, and are aware of the boundaries they need, her H readily (and honestly)admits he has a bit of a wandering eye, and it wouldn’t take much if they didn’t constantly work on their love. She found out what happened, and was my support, and despite her doubts was almost as shocked as me that my darling boy, who sheabsolutely loved and respected, would do this, although like me, she never trusted the OW (both these women were old school friends of mine.) I think you hit the nail on the head a few weeks ago with one of your posts along the lines of, “thank goodness, it wasn’t a PA,” as I feel that this is what has made it so very difficult for me. I was very accepting of his close friendship with her, he’d had plenty of other fairly close female friendships over our 24 years (now) together, and I was not threatened by any of them, now I ask myself why I wasn’t, was I wrong all along, has he done this before (of course, he swears he did not, but how can you believe a liar, and that causes him so much sadness, he did this, he created this doubt about our entire history together, and he’s so angry with himself for stuffing the whole trust thing up, all for a little bit of self-soothing with a very selfish woman.) The sexual imagery is difficult to deal with, and I’m not sure why, as, of course, I’m not the only woman he’s ever been with sexually, and I know some of his ex-girlfriends/sexual partners, and that has never been a problem before, so why can’t I just look at this like another ex-sexual partner/girlfriend? I have certainly tried to rationalise the “past” ie, his sex with her during the affair, like this, treat it like it happened before we were together. Very odd that I can’t.

      • Broken

        Brian thats what I feel is the big difference in having friendships with the opposite sex. The one guy is a champion for your marriage. It’s not hidden…he wants what is best for both of you and has no agenda for himself. The other person is hidden, secretive, no one knows and that is the big difference. Friends have to be friends of your marriage. It’s you and your wife inside the box that is your relationship and everyone else is on the outside. At least that is how I feel. There is a real slippery slope when it comes to men and relationships with single women when they are married and the other way around as well.

    • Shocked

      So after all we have been thru he goes ahead and contact her again. I feel so hurt. I asked him why and he said she didn’t come in and he wanted to know if she was ok. I asked him if when he picked up the phone did it occur to him that I would be hurt and he said yes. So I know for sure that his need to speak to her or check on her out ways the fact that he is causing me pain. I told him let’s just separate because that would be better for both of us. He didn’t really answer that but he says that I can’t tell him who to be friends with. He was worried about his CO-WORKER so he called her to make sure she was ok.
      Funny how non of the other co-workers get the same treatment.

      I told him he has to respect me and our marriage and please don’t speak to me unless it has something to do with the kids.
      So I’ll see how it goes.

    • sharkgirl

      That’s sadly what I came to realise so many times he said he’d stop and becasue he saw what it was doing to me and he never did. he couldn’t or wouldn’t. Sad reality is he didn’t love me enough to fight for our marriage together, and not just me but our kids too.

    • melissa

      Shocked, I’m so sorry for you but you are right. Your H has to make a choice and not give preferential treatment to the OW. The same happened to me and I felt the same as you, so hurt that the need to speak to the OW was more important than me and my feelings and also, more important than what we had agreed. Think of it like drugs: for some people, it takes a very long time to wean themselves off.

      I also used the same example with my H: the way he treated the OW was totally different from the way he dealt with any of his other colleagues and he could not deny it.

      Hang in there and take care.

    • Jessica

      HM
      Thank you for your postings, it’s been over a year for me since D Day and it’s nice to read postings and updates from others who have traveled this journey. My heart goes out to those who are in pain, a year ago, even three months ago I didn’t know if I would make it through the EA, this site and friend that I met thru here kept me going on my darkest of days.
      Today I am better, the EA will always be there on the back burner, the trust isn’t back yet I honestly don’t know when I will ever trust him again like I used to.

    • Shocked

      I would like to know from BS what to do about the NC, should I allow minimum contact (Professional Contact). Right now I’m at NC at all period but is this realistic. He says nothing is going on or will go on but he has up until last week called her from our home # while I was away on for the weekend. She is the only co worker he contacts. How can she be just a friend and if she is why can’t I be introduced to this just friend.

    • roller coaster rider

      Paula, I don’t think it’s odd you can’t treat your OH’s affair as something that predates your relationship, because wouldn’t that be trying to lie to yourself in a way? All that has happened has shaken your ability to trust to the core, and another lie wouldn’t seem to be adequate to patch up what lies created in the first place.

    • Paula

      RCR, well put, I agree, but have tried to find a way, any way, to forgive him properly (I thought I had forgiven him, as I totally understand how he got into the situation, but later realised that understanding is a completely different concept to forgiveness) and get some peace for me. I am starting to feel a little of that now with the mindset I have recently adopted, well, not peace, but the constant, terrifying panic has subsided a little.

    • melissa

      Paula

      No contact means just that – NO contact. Of course it’s difficult when there is a professional relationship, especially if two people work in the same office. However, there is no reason for your H to call the OW at the weekend and especially when you’re away.

      After my H ‘relapsed’ last year and started to contact the OW again (allegedly because she needed help with work), I first of all explained that he could have contacted her in my presence, briefly, and made it clear that he did not want any more contact with her or not replied to her calls (and certainly NOT called her directly himself, wheneverf I was away). I was so angry I fiercelyreminded him of the boundaries we had agreed, the promise he had made and broken and gave him an ultimatum: her or me. So far so good, I think, although no-one can ever be sure.

      BTW, he’s just back from his conference. I asked if he’d seen her (I knew she was going – oh the joys of the internet and twitter!) but he said he did not see her, did not know she was there and did not seek her out. He did not look shifty or uncomfortable nor did he go into a rage (which usually disguises the fact he is very uncomfortable and lying) so I hope he’s not ‘at it’ again.

      Take care, Paula. I’m thinking of you and know what you’re going through.

    • melissa

      Sorry, I meant ‘shocked’, not Paula in my last post. Sorry!

    • Shocked

      Melissa
      Not sure what to do. I made my self very clear that there is no need to call her at all. She doesn’t show up and he calls to see if she is ok. I know this will not go away right away. I have even spoken to her and told her what they’re so called friendship is doing to our relationship.
      My H knows that I don’t want him to contact her. I wanted to know how you approached a H that still thinks he did nothing wrong and he can’t understand why I’m blowing this out of proportion. I want to move on with my life but it’s hard when he still in contact and says NC is impossible.

      Also for any other BS, do you still continue being the supportive W and be intimate with your H and try to keep the home life as normal possible.

      • melissa

        Unfortunately, there’s not a lot you can do until your H comes out of the ‘fog’. It took mine at least a year, after our last bust up, when he’d broken his promise, to start changing. I’m sure the fact that the OW had another boyfriend and that he, I guess, realised she was never ever going to be his ‘girlfriend’, helped.

        It’s really difficult. My H refuses to talk about his EA and, like yours, he says he denied over and over again having done anything at all. I think he does now but he won’t admit it.

        I think with a lot of men there’s an element of ego boosting simply because there is another W interested in them but also they loved the ‘damsel in distress’ situation and want to be heroes. Think about ways to make your H feel he’s your hero. Even though it’s artificial, it might fulfil a need in him. Talk about his work, his achievements at sports or whatever, his hobbies (even if they bore you rigid) and show an interest.

        Hang in there, look after yourself, live your life (that’s the advice my counsellor gave me when my H ‘relapsed’) and be the best you can be. It’ll take time.

        Lots of love

      • Healing Mark

        Shocked. I can’t suggest what you might do as I do not know the particulars of your “situation”. I initially insisted on no contact between my wife and the OM, and they each agreed to it and followed it. However, I began obsessing as to whether my wife was following this edict, and this was neither healthy nor productive in terms of my efforts to get over the EA which, I should note, was acknowledged by my wife and the OM (reluctantly by my wife but not, surprisingly, by the OM) and had ended some time before I found out about the EA and after such ending my wife and the OM re-established a relationship that did not cross boundaries that my wife and I both understood existed with respect to relationships between my wife and other male friends and between me and other female friends. Also, my wife resented the fact that I was “controlling” her and causing the ending of a friendship with the OM and his wife (yes, my wife is good friends with the OM’s wife which my wife and I both agree is pretty messed up). This resentment was causing problems, of course, and my wife correctly felt like I did not trust her to be able to act appropriately with the OM thus the “no contact” rule. Finally, no contact between me and my wife with the OM and his wife was likely to raise suspicions with other mutual friends that “something” had happened between two or more of us and, given how my wife and the OM had acted together during the EA, a conclusion that an affair (no doubt sexual as that is what everybody usually thinks) had taken place between my wife and the OM was almost certain to be reached at some point by one or more of our friends.

        Something had to change, and I realized that no matter how hard I tried to determine whether my wife and the OM were not communicating, they could easily still communicate if they wanted to without me knowing about it. So my wife, the OM (I still talk to him when I have to and he understands that our “friendship” has been damaged greatly and is now a work in progress, although he gets a little bit of credit for having ended the EA and thereafter acting appropriately with my wife, and also for never denying that he was wrong and apologizing profusely and promising to never again make the same mistake with my wife) and myself agreed that there could be limited contact between my wife and the OM and his wife (we intentionally did not attempt to define what “limited” would be) provided that my wife let me know when such contact occurred and, if it was a phone call she would briefly describe what they talked about (they rarely talk on the phone anymore) or, if it was by text my wife would not delete the messages and would let me see them if I wanted to (they also rarely text anymore). This has been fantastic for our efforts to put the EA behind us. My wife can show me that she is no longer a “bad” person and can be trusted to act appropriately with male friends including the OM. I am regaining more trust in my wife’s behaviour with other male friends (we never had any problems in this regard, none, until her friendship with the OM “blossomed”) and have less worry that somehow she and the OM are back at it. Her limited contact with the OM (yes, I would be bothered if they somehow went back to talking and texting every day, but they stopped doing that long before I discovered the existence of the by then ended EA and sometimes go weeks without texting and haven’t, to my knowledge, talked on the phone for months, although my wife is able to keep up with their family affairs through calls with the OM’s wife) has been so mundane/perfunctory that I rarely insist on much of a description of what was talked about and I never look at texts even though I can.

        I understand that my situation is very different than many out there. Not being co-workers makes my situation much different than yours, Shocked. And I guess because I am a man, I never let the prior existence of the EA keep me from being intimate with my wife. Now, if she was on the fence between me and another man, yes, I could see where that might cause some problems (suppose we would be “intimate” without really being intimate, if you get my drift). Also, I believe my wife and the OM when they swear that nothing physical occurred (I have emails backing this up and I get it that they had sexual thoughts/fantasies, but each valued their marriages more, ultimately, and felt that if they got physical they would increase the chances of getting caught which they did not want to happen). Had something physical occurred, I don’t think I would want continued contact.

        So for me, stopping worrying about whether my wife and the OM were carrying on inappropriately helped me immensely. It also helped my wife immensely as not only did she not like being distrusted, she did not find my worrying to be attractive. As soon as I said “F_ _ k it! I’m going to be the best man and father I can be, and if you want to mess around with someone else, fine, but understand that you will be choosing to end the marriage, and our children and friends will know that you have made this choice, however, I trust that you will not make this choice so I don’t have to worry about it.”, things got much, much better at my house. Trust me.

        God bless you Shocked as you work to get better. Get busy with your husband, let him know that an appropriate relationship is fine, and does not bother you, but if he can’t respect you enough to act appropriately with this co-worker/”friend”, then what he is telling you by his actions is that he does not want to stay married to you. If your husband feels like you don’t trust him, I think it’s easier for him rationalize continuing to be too close for comfort with the other woman. Don’t give him that opportunity!

        Healing Mark

    • Broken

      Shocked ….that is a very difficult situation. It sounds to me like he is not ready to give up the EA just yet. IF she were a friend to your marriage she would say to him when he calls “I spoke to your wife and she doesn’t want us in contact with each other so dont call me”. She has no respect for you or your marriage. I dont have any experience in the lingering contact issue as my H severed all contact on dday. I do know that there can be no contact to move forward with your marriage and it sounds like right now he isn’t ready to do that. I think what Brian has said in the past is good advise. As hard as it is you just have to concentrate on yourself and your kids right now. Take care of yourself physically and emotionally as best you can because it is not easy to do when you are so ripped apart. Sometimes when they see that you are moving on with your life they come around…sometimes not. I know I would not be able to be intimate with my husband if he had any contact with the OW but that is a personnal decision. Keeping the home life as normal as possible is essential for your children. Its really hard when you are walking around in a daze with a pain in your heart that is almost unbearable. Everyones story is different, not every spouse comes around, all that do…have a timeline of their own. You can’t control what he does…but you can control what you do. You need to think about what boundries you need to survive. Dont do anything large right now while this is all new. Take your time. Also read some of Dougs posts…he wasn’t to quik in giving up his affair. Linda has alot of good advise on how she handled it as well. Take care…..thinking about you.

    • Shocked

      To Doug

      I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on my situation with my H’s EA with his co-worker. He says its impossible not to have contact with her and I just found out that in the office their desks are not across the room like he lead me to believe.
      I would be ok with professional contact but I don’t think he is ready for only that. He continues to defend this woman to me. I hate that.
      I also wanted to hear from you as the H what a W can do at home to help with ending and not be nagging and demanding. Should I be more or less affectionate towards him? I ‘m not sure what’s the right thing to do and I don’t want to push him away. I have demanded NC and he says I can’t tell him who to be friends with and if he gives in to this then later on I will be demanding other things

      • Doug

        Shocked, I don’t think I can say it any better than Broken, Melissa or Healing Mark have. Re-read HM’s last paragraph and let that set in, then try to act accordingly. I truly believe that absolutely no contact is the best answer, but also realize that due to work issues that can’t always be feasible. Discuss with your husband very strict boundaries that he must adhere to in order for you to feel somewhat comfortable with the situation.

        Another thought…Linda mentors a person whose husband had an affair with a co-worker and this person (and her husband) discussed the situation with the employer who has helped with the situation by separating them at work and not assigning them to projects, meetings, conference calls, etc together. This might not be feasible in your situation and it might piss your husband off even more, but it is an idea.

        I think that nagging and demanding can be counter-productive and just further cause resentment and animosity. I think that affection can go along way, but at the same time you don’t want to appear needy or that your are begging him to do something he may not want to do yet. Have you tried backing off or doing a “180”?

        The fact still remains that he had an affair and now should be kissing your butt to make things right and to regain your trust. He should be playing by your rules, not his. One thing you can try is to let him know where you stand and that you will accept nothing less and continue to work on yourself. He will take notice.

        Unfortunately, there is no cut and dry solution to any of this and I think it takes a little trial and error until you find out what works and what doesn’t. But again, I think NO contact is a requirement.

    • Paula

      Agree with all here re: no contact. My OH had ended his affair before I found out, also, like HM (but unlike HM’s wife, my OH had a full-on PA, and I refuse to call it anything but an affair, it seems like “watering it down” to call it an EA, or any other euphemism) but the thing that kept me in emotional limbo for another two years was the fact that when she subsequently texted, he replied. I said that is just playing her game, he was showing me the texts, after the event, and they were all mostly along the lines of go away, but sometimes they were “chatty,” it blew my mind (he said, “she was my friend when I needed one so desperately, I can’t be mean to her – I replied, thanks for the support of me and my feelings here!!!). One of the things that is not helpful at all, but absolutely infuriates me is that he never said to her, you’re being/have been a total b…. He says it is because he was the instigator of the affair, and how could he reprimand her, but I feel like he hasn’t “had my back” since the affair ended, by defending me and my attempts to forgive him and move on, she just thinks I’m a stupid doormat who is staying with a cheating sod.

      Anyway, she may have been the “victim” of his advances, but you can always say no, you’re in a committed relationship with my friend! I was constantly panicked that this wasn’t over, that maybe she was right, I was being an idiot doormat (again!) and my shrink finally pointed out that my mind was keeping me on full alert for a good reason, it wasn’t finished/dealt with as when I kicked him out in April of this year, two years after he last slept with her, he immediately (the day after) resumed contact with her, and went up to her place on day three, “to talk” and ended up sleeping with her again, see, the shrink said, your mind was right. We were still in contact, he is my best mate in the world, he admitted that he slept with her the next day to me (he was single, he could do what he liked in my book) but I told him that it would have looked a hell of a lot better to me if he managed to “talk” to her without the overwhelming need to shag her again, would have shown he didn’t fancy her anymore, that she really was as useless in bed as he stated all along, would have not made me feel entirely disposable. He saw this, but said he just needed to ensure he was right, that she was a selfish and useless lover, and he said he was right, she was, still no fireworks, in fact he felt really dirty and horrid. I could have told him that. We later reconciled, and I am now almost 100% sure that there is NOW no contact.

      So, back to the point, NC is the most desirable option, but we can’t achieve that, only they can. If they won’t, then they don’t respect you enough to continue on with, but it may take some time, I turfed my OH out three times in just over two years, the final time, I said, there will be no reconciliation, I’m done (famous last words!) that won’t be happening again, but it seemed to show him I was serious, and the no contact seems to have stuck. He is, and always was (since D-Day) very transparent about his phone, he is almost computer illiterate, so that doesn’t worry me! And he was very honest about every bit of contact they had post D-Day (even though it infuriated me, I always remained calm and told him he was just playing into her hands by replying!)

      Good luck, Shocked, all the previous advice is good, it is incredibly hard, but the best thing to do is look after you and yours, I just constantly planned what I could do to make MY life better, including all kinds of self-improvement, not at all for him, just for my own self esteem

    • Bigmistake

      Shocked-
      I posted under this entry some time ago and am still getting these emailed. I wanted to answer as a H who had an EA for almost 2 years. While Doug is the clear “expert” here I want to add my 2 cents, in hopes of helping. To me at least as a betrayer/cheater/CS the “fog” everyone references is that the very idea you’re cheating while not having a PA is ludicrous. “How can I be cheating when we aren’t having sex?”. That’s how I felt. I’ve been married for 17 years now, I’m human-I’ve seen and worked with women I thought were attractive and done my share of innocent flirting (in a group setting) and been flirted with. There was always a line. With my affair partner (AP) I had a crush and we became “friends” I didn’t hide it from my wife because I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong. We’re just friends. Right? My wife knew our friendship was intense right off the bat and I wished I had listened; instead I took to hiding the “friendship” to avoid arguing about a subject I thought was ridiculous. This then lead me down the path of blaming my wife for having to hide it. Once we started keeping secrets the EA truly developed.
      My suggestions: Ask your H if he has a crush on her. Remind him that in and of itself is no big deal. Let him feel safe answering the question. I’m sure the answer is yes. Next question-do you think she has a crush on you? Last question: Would you like it if I was spending time alone with a guy I had a crush on? Or if I was with you but kept thinking about a guy I have a crush on that I work with.
      To me this is how most EAs start. He has a crush, she has a crush and neither one realizes it. The friendship blossoms and once you do something you feel guilty about you start hiding and before you know it. Marriage gone bad.
      Just remember he’s fighting it because he probably thinks he hasn’t done anything wrong. Yet. NC is important. Even if you work together you can avoid any personal conversations, it’s easy once you start the habit. No one talks to everyone in the building or is friends with everyone on the same floor or unit or shift.
      Good luck.

    • Brian

      Bigmistake,
      If you don’t mind me asking: What was it that made you realize that you needed to end the affair and establish NC. Did your wife deliver an ultimatum? Or did your affair reach a point where it was necessary for you to make a decision? My wife has commited to the marriage and sees her relationship with her AP as “just friends” so while things are better between us, I think for us to get to where we want to be there has to be NC. She disagrees. It’s just friends so what’s the big deal? I think that as long as she’s in contact (only texting as far as I know) she will continue to carry a torch for this guy and there can’t help to be comparisons between me and him… and we all know the BS can’t compete with the fantasy…

      • Healing Mark

        What’s the big deal? The big deal is that her continuation of this friendship with the new guy bothers you and you would feel better if she ended it. Your feelings should be more important than continuing this friendship. Presumably, your wife has plenty of other friends and discontinuing a relationship with the new guy would not emotionally harm your wife. In a joint counselling session with my wife, this is essentially what our counsellor told me and my wife. My wife called it a form of punishment, and pointed out the fact that she and the OM had ended the EA and for a significant period of time maintained a friendship that was non-threatening and within agreed upon boundaries that my wife and I agreed were necessary with respect to friendships with persons of the opposite sex.

        That said, our no contact caused more harm than good, and we ended it. Well, in theory we ended it. Luckily for me, the OM had been a good friend, for a short period of time got caught up in a relationship with my wife that he finally recognized as inappropriate, and then ended the EA and began acting like a good friend should act with his friend’s wife. When informed that the no contact rule had been relaxed, he let my wife know that he was cool with it only as long as I was really ok with it. It appears that he was able to “read between the lines” and tell that I wasn’t really cool with it, so he began ignoring texts from my wife and not taking calls or returning calls from her. As a result, to my knowledge she has not tried to contact him via cell phone for almost two months (do I think that they have communicated in some other manner, no, I do not, but if they have, it hasn’t caused my wife to act like she did when in the midst of the EA).

        For a while I too worried that continued contact with the OM could result in the EA beginning all over again. After analyzing the situation and talking things over with my wife, I came to the conclusion, and perhaps Doug will back this up, that once the affair “fog” has gone away and the harmful relationship has been identified, as long as the CS comes to their senses and commits to the marriage, the likelihood of the EA happening again is slim to none. What is possible, unfortunately, is that (in my opinion) the person who has chosen to maintain an EA that has developed may well do the same thing again if an EA develops with another person. Seems that there needs to be a sort of “newness” to the relationship and feelings of that “spark” that comes with being attracted to another person. Hopefully, seeing in hindsight how damaging the EA was to our family will cause my wife to do what I have done when faced with such feelings, and that is discontinue any sort of relationship with the new “friend”. Maybe its just me, but I don’t need another woman stroking my ego and becoming a confidant of mine. An intimate relationship with one woman is enough, good and sometimes bad, for me!

    • Shocked

      I’m taking it one day at a time. My H says he is no longer in contact with the OW. He says they only say hi or bye and that he is trying to make this right with me. He says that I expect him to act a certain way and he is right (I thought he would be remorseful) but he isn’t.

      I thought he might like to cuddle like before but he is also not doing any of this. I don’t really know what to expect and he says we are different people so we act different. He gives me bits and pieces about his past conversations with her but mostly says he can’t remember. He wants me to give him full details on my conversation with her though, so I say I can’t remember either. He told me they spoke briefly after I called her and they agreed that they would not contact each other anymore. I think it was her not him that came up with this arrangement. I will back off and see what he does, the ball is in his court. I do feel like some of the anxiety is fading and I’m not looking for things as much as before. I hope this works.

      • Brian

        Shocked, try to be patient and in the meantime take care of yourself. I still have good days and bad days… our marriage has taken a hit, no doubt. However, on those bad days, I try to remember to hang in there, it won’t happen overnight. Look for the little signs of progress here and there. Eventually they may all add up to a better relationship. Wishing you all the best…

    • Bigmistake

      Brian-
      My EA hit the point where I realized how much I was hurting my wife and my family (we have two daughters). I was in denial of an EA for a long time and hid the friendship from my wife the first time she found out. It took a while for me to pull out of the “fog.” My wife tried to stop the EA the summer of 2009, I didn’t stop it until 2011. We do have a NC rule now and it wouldn’t have worked if I didn’t believe I was having an affair.

      • Brian

        That’s what I’m hoping for with my wife, that she will someday see the EA for what it was/is and will break off all contact. On the plus side, she hasn’t met with him for months and texting is much less and she is coming back to me emotionally and physically. Time will tell…
        Thanks for the response and good luck.

    • Shocked

      Brian
      I am taking care of my self and my kids. I know nothing will change until he admits that it is an EA and then he fixes it. It so hard knowing he will see her everyday and not knowing if I can trust him. I still feel like he contacts her a work and just lies about it. How do you allow your wife to stay in contact with the OM. I really couldn’t do that knowing the type of conversations they had. You are alot stronger than you think.
      Thanks for the advice, I guess we all can stay strong for each other.
      What will it take to help him see what he is doing?
      It’s so frustrating.

      • Healing Mark

        Shocked. Have you tried counselling?

        Let me also ask you. Before you discovered that your husband was having an EA with someone at work, did you worry about him seeing other women at work and/or worry about what he might be saying or doing with these women while at work? Probably not. So, you have just got to get back to that point in time in your relationship, where you once again trust that your husband will not be acting inappropriately with other women while you are married. Now, if I could tell you how you could do that, I too would have a website and be trying to make a lot of money “selling” this advice to persons like yourself.

        I suspect, and my wife confirms this, that it would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, for just me to convince my wife that her relationship with our “friend” had become inappropriate and damaging and one that “they” (my wife hates “they”!) deem to be an EA. Even with counselling, it was very, very hard for her to admit that she had ever done anything wrong. That’s just the way she is and many others are. We finally decided to forget trying to name or classify what it was that she and her AP had done, and to just focus and getting to genuine forgiveness, actually documenting what we mutually agreed should be the boundaries in our relationships with persons of the opposite sex, expressly committing to do whatever we had to do to not overstep such boundaries, and to do the things we both identified as things that one or both of us needed to be done in order to be happily married.

        As I said in an earlier post, it seems to me that you have two options if your husband is unwilling to end his EA. That said, you can chose, as I believe that Brian has, to ride this thing out and perhaps your husband will come out of the “fog” and see not only the error of his ways, but also how much he has hurt you and how much he really wants to be happily married to you. At that time, I believe that you will have a much better chance of achieving genuine forgiveness, putting images of the EA out of your head, and once again trusting your husband the way you did before you discovered the EA.

        God bless and good luck.

        Healing Mark

    • Brian

      For now things are improving so I’m giving her time to let go of the EA but eventually she will have to completely for me to trust that we are solid again. Patience…

    • Broken

      Trust was returning…..I felt happy again for the first time in 13 months and it all ended Friday. My husband has been amazing to me….everything I ever wanted him to be. We had a plan or so I thought that he would contact me immediately if he heard from the OW.

    • Broken

      ….hit the btton to soon. Driving to our sons football game Friday the phone rings over the speaker a womans voice says hello and my H says who is this, she says the OW name. He says why are you calling me I haven’t heard from you in over a year. I told her to never call again and I hated her. We both cried…it was awful. Ended up having a great weekend that is until monday when he decided to tell me that she in fact had called 6 months prior and it was eating him up inside that he hadnt told me. Even though just 2 days before he lied in front of me and asked her why she was calling after a years time. He says she wanted a job reference and to talk about her dying mother. He says the conversation was strained but he managed to say he would give her a reference. She even asked how I was doing….so sweet. They hung up and he never told me. Now who do I trust???? My anger towards him is overwhelming especially since he thinks I should somehow feel grateful cuz he told me. I hate him right now. Whos the fool now…me. Who do I beleive now…no one. To top it all off I went the the doctor yesterday and my BP that has been controlled with drugs is now dangerously high AND there is something wrong with my heart. This is literally killing me. I really am at the end and I cant take anymore. After I get my health straightened out I am seriously going to consider if this is all worth it. I hate liers and cheaters.

      • Healing Mark

        Broken. I do not in any way mean to make light of or diminish any of the feelings you have described. Let me just say that the lies that my wife told me to ostensibly “not hurt my feelings” and in many instances to either hide or diminish her EA were WAY worse than the lie your husband told you. And well into our healing process my wife would also sometimes “forget” to tell me that she had talked or texted with her AP and would then tell me a day or two later or if I asked her whether she had. She has been very good for quite a while at letting me know whether she is going to call or text our “friend” but understand that we are talking about two short calls and five or six short texting conversations in the last three months.

        I guess what I’m trying to say is that I have had to forgive much worse transgressions than the few instances where my wife “forgot” to let me know about a contact and shortly thereafter made me aware of the same. I would have been much angrier with my wife, and would have felt a blow to efforts to regain trust, if she had contact with the AP and lied about it and I later found out about it which, of course, are the kind of lies I would get when my wife was in the midst of her EA. Yes, a mistake was perhaps made when he did not tell you the same day of his call with the OW (I’m assuming that you and your husband had an understanding that he would tell you about contact the same day that it occurred). But by rectifying the mistake when he later fessed up to it, it would not cause me to then trust him any less than I did at that time, because he didn’t lie about the contact or try to hide it from you. Just saying…..

        Healing Mark

        • Broken

          HM…I am just sick of the lies small, medium, big. I am sick of the selective memory and it scares me of how easy it is for him to lie. I am more upset at that then her calling him again and him not telling me, It screams….what else is he not telling me and so easily lies about??? For the last year I have asked at least twice a month…have you heard from her in any way and he looks at me in the eye and says absolutely not and I would tell you if I did. So each and everytime I asked he lied. In a fragile marriage where emotions are so raw and trust virtually non existent even the smallest lie sets it all in motion again. I was almost there 2 weeks ago. I felt happy for the first time in a year….now the saddness has returned. He thinks its no big deal (which bothers me to). Keeps telling me how great our marriage is….outside I smile, inside I cry. What do I trust in my life? I looked back at our phone records for the last year…there is no call from her at any of the numbers I know of. He says she didnt call at work…..so where is the call? Did he meet her somewhere…..how can I know the truth. Hes such a good lier. This is eating me up inside and for my health I should not be feeling this way. I dont know what to feel anymore. Do you all think I am being ridiculous? Should I just let it go? When she did call last week and I was there it was awful and I noticed the first thing he did was mention that I was in the car too. DId he do that so she wouldnt say anything wrong or that she would mention their prior converstaion or did he say that because he wanted her to know we were a team? There again he lied by saying I havent spoken to you in over a year yet it had been just a few months before. Should I just let it go? There has been alot of good to come out of this as well…..just dont know.

    • Sue

      Well my story is pretty similar. My BF of 22 years started an emotional affair in 2004. It became physical for a month, then it went back to being E for over 4 years. It was the hardest thing in my life to go through.
      Fast forward to now, He bumped into her the end of July. I just found out 3 days ago, that they had been talking to each other. They even hung out at a dog park last Sunday, with MY dog!
      I seriously can’t believe I am going through this again! I do believe they have only been in contact for a little over a month and they don’t talk constantly like before, but I think it could go back to that if it were to continue.
      My bf is very sorry, again, and told me it was the stupidest thing to do, calling her again, after running into her. He knows that she is not a good person, she craves mens attention and uses them and he knows this. He is clearly obsessed with her. He will admit that. He doesn’t know what draws her to him.

      So what do I do? Do I tell him NC or else? Or else what? Do I just try to ignore it and take care of myself and hope for the best? He told me he was done with her again, but who knows. Last time he took years to make the break.

      She also has a BF. I am crushed. Can’t believe I am back to this horrible place with him. Any advice would be helpful! I don’t know what to do, say or how to act.

      Sue

      • Sue

        Advice????

      • Doug

        Hi Sue. Sorry that you are going through this again. We are firm believers that there should be no further contact between a CS and the affair partner. It seems that in your BF’s situation he has some sort of connection with the OW whereas he can’t seem to let he go completely. Any contact with her throws him right back into the affair. If you want to tie an ultimatum to the no contact rule, that’s up to you, but I think if you do, it should be along the lines of it’s either her or you, and he needs to make that decision once and for all. You shouldn’t have to put up with this crap and he needs to be aware of that and then live by whatever boundaries are necessary. In the meantime, get strong. Work on yourself as best that you can. Exercise. Go out with friends, etc. Show him (and yourself) that you will be OK – with or without him. Best of luck!

    • Shocked

      Healing Mark
      I have spoken to a pastor at my church twice and he is available for me if and when I’m ready for counseling. I understand what you said about going back to where I was before this happened but it’s easier said than done.
      When my H comes home my mind is at rest, when he leaves to go any where I’m frantic and I can’t even begin to explain this to him. He thinks I’m blowing the situation out of proportion. I’m really trying but my problem is that even though my H says this was nothing but (FLIRTING and A JOKE) with the OW. I actually heard one of his conversations with her and he was telling her how beautiful and sexy he thought she was and then went on to tell her he couldn’t admit that to me. It hurts to hear or even think about that. I’am aware that he has other female co-workers but none of the get a personal call from my H to find out why they didn’t come in today. I am trying so hard to forget this and move on with my life. When he comes home I don’t even mention it anymore but I know it will take a while to get past my emotions.

      • Healing Mark

        A pastor is nice, but a professional marriage counsellor is, in my opinion, more effective and more likely to make your husband come to a realization that, regardless of what he thinks, his relationship with this woman is harming you and your family. Also more likely to convince him that you are not “crazy” based on how you are feeling and reacting to things right now. Trust me. Until your husband can acknowledge the validity of the negative thoughts and feelings the EA is/has causing you, getting past the affair is, in my opinion, going to be extremely hard, if not impossible, to do.

        A vent here. It drove me crazy that my wife tried to make light of, and even sometimes dismiss, the thoughts and feelings I had after discovering the then-ended EA. It also drove me crazy that she was ultimately unwilling to put my feelings above her desire to maintain an appropriate relationship with our “friend”, but I got over this. So many times I told her that if I had a friendship with another woman that was bothering my wife so much that she wanted me to end it, I would without a doubt end that friendship no matter how irrational I thought my wife was being because, after all, this is my wife we are talking about. No friendship is out there that is worth hurting my wife by continuing it.

        Thanks.

    • Lynne

      For those of you that have just discovered that your H’s & BFs have become repeat offenders (I am broken hearted for you and know that a return to the EA is a fear that many of us have–what a day of postings here today–ugh!), I would encourage you to go to a website site I happened on a few days ago called “baggage reclaim” by a woman named Natalie Lue. I almost stopped breathing when I found it, as this describes who I’ve become in this 6 year relationship of mine. I am in a relationship with MR. UNAVAILABLE……a man who is emotionally unavailable and acts it out on a fairly regular basis! And I have bought into it hook, line and sinker!

      I have allowed my own values and boundaries to slide sideways in order to support this relationship, and his behaviors. I have become someone I no longer recognize–before I came along he couldn’t keep a relationship together for longer than 3 months (do you think I should have seen this as a huge red flag waving in the wind???), but he’d been single for 12 years before I met him. So even though we broke up several times in the beginning because he wasn’t feeling it for me, and lied to me about many things, including an inappropriate 5 year “female friendship” (he refuses to call his lies and secrecy an EA), plus moving the goal posts about whether he wanted to get married, I rode it out because I wanted to be the “exception”. Well I am the exception, I got the ring, but he’s not the prize!

      Suffice it to say that after reading the above website at length, I finally had my ah, ha moment. I have set myself up for a potential lifetime of struggles with someone who doesn’t have the capacity to truly give emotionally. If this six years is any indication of what my future might hold over the next 20-30 years with him, I’m screwed! So, I have decided to give the ring back, take ME back, and get on with my life without him. I am going back to my core boundaries and values and leaving him to get myself back. How I got here God only knows, but what a lesson I have learned…..I have mistreated myself by allowing him to lie, make excuses, dodge and diminish things, and on some level allowing myself to rationalize his behaviors. The moment I realized that I have been buying into all this nonsense and accepting his bullshit as part of having a relationship with him, I decided to put myself on a BULLSHIT DIET!!! As soon as I made this commitment to myself, the obsessessing about his EA and whether he would do it again vanished completely.

      Leaving is going to a very hard road, and probably one of the most painful journey’s I can imagine, but I choose ME!

      I have included some text from the “baggage reclaim” website that I thought might be helpful to others………….

      I’ve talked a lot about boundaries, how actions speak louder than words, and how we can teach people how to treat us and also what to expect from us. I’ve talked about low self-esteem and how we choose partners that reflect the things that we believe about ourselves, and I hope I’ve given you umpteen reasons why chasing men that don’t love, trust, care, or respect you are a really bad idea. As always, we have to take the focus of them and bring it back to us, and so it’s important to start asking yourself how authentic you are being?
      Are you someone who is conducting yourself and your life in line with the values and characteristics that you profess to have? Or are you being someone else entirely? Are you lost?
      If we place too much of our desire for happiness in the hands of someone else, it’s easy to slip into co-dependency. In trying to be and do everything that they want in the hope it’ll be reflected back to us and we’ll feel the wonderful feeling of being loved, we end up allowing disrespect to happen and in some instances normalizing bad behavior. Then they’re gone, or we get wise about what we’ve been engaging in and realize that we’ve become incredibly distanced from the person we once were.

    • THE OTHER WOMAN

      THE OTHER WOMAN

      Hello Folks,

      I thought I would share my story as someone who has been “the other woman” in this situation. I have a friend whom I have known for about a year. Last summer we both found ourselves developing a mutual attraction. Before either of us acted upon this or even discussed it openly between us, we each decided independently to make our spouses aware of the situation. Their reactions couldn’t have been more different. My husband was very understanding and his only qualifier was that if it ever turned physical, he would like to be informed so that we could make separate sleeping arrangements. We have each experienced similar situations over the years and never once has it led to physical intimacy with another person.

      My friend’s wife on the other hand decided that direct intervention was the best approach. She first wrote me a letter which was formulated like an interrogation into the nature of my interactions and my feelings towards her husband. Even though we both reassured her that there had been no physical intimacy between us, she wrote back soon afterwards declaring that we were having an emotional affair and that we needed to cease all contact immediately “for an indefinite period of time”. Although I knew her approach was doomed for failure, I went along with it out of respect or my friend who went along with it out of love for his wife. It was a very painful time for me and I went though a grieving process since I did not know how long the “indefinite period” would last or if I would ever see him again.

      After a month and a half, he sent me an email asking how I was doing and letting me know he was having a hard time breaking out of his “cage”. Since I truly love this person and wish for his happiness, I responded by recommending some books which have been helpful in my own marriage. Not surprisingly, since she has been “supervising” his email for a while now, it was his wife who responded and proceeded to interrogate me once again and to question me about the books. She was quick to identify flaws in her husband based on what she read but had a very hard time seeing that she herself my have any issues to work on. Two weeks later, he dropped by and told me he had left her. He did not leave her for me, he left her for his own emotional health. It is clear that our relationship will continue as a friendship and that our friendship could have coexisted peacefully with his relationship to his wife. It is sad that her jealousy and possessiveness have essentially killed her marriage.

      • Anita

        Since the Bible is true,
        Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked;for whatever a man sow, he will also reap.

        Proverbs16:18 Pride goes before destruction,
        And a haughty spirit before a fall.

    • Brian

      First of all, thanks for sharing.

      A few questions: did your friendship with this other man have a negative impact on your marriage? That is, did you feel like your were losing feelings for your husband as your feelings for the other man grew? Were you spending more time with him and less with your husband? Did you prefer his company over that of your spouse?

    • Broken

      Other Woman…..you have left out most of the detail of your “friendship” with this man. You make it sound like you met, were attracted to each other and told your spouses all on the same day. I am quite sure the mans wife most likely had reason to believe it was an emotional affair. You can have friends of the opposite sex if they are friends of your marriage …you and this man sound like you had your own agenda at least for awhile. I feel so sorry for the wife whos marriage has ended because YOU and HER husband cheated on her NOT because she was insecure. Everything she did I did. Had you set up boundries in your own marriage you wouldn’t be out looking around for other womans husbands to become attracted to. The only person I feel sorry for is the woman whos marriage YOU and her husband destroyed. I can only imagine the hell she lives with

      • Anita

        Broken
        Well said.
        I was a former betrayed spouse myself. I divorced a few years
        ago.
        I never bothered confronting the other woman. I knew in order for someone to do that, they have problems. When people hurt other people its because why down deep inside they are hurting, for whatever reason. We may never know what that is.
        When we have Love inside us we are able to give that to others. What we can to do help them, is to Pray for them
        God Bless You!

    • karen

      TOW:
      Welcome to this site. Would love to hear what you think about this site and its contents and reading recommendations. You sound like a strong, smart woman who is content to exist in an open marriage and would be very accepting of your husband developing a strong emotional and/or physical attachment to another woman. I too am a very strong and smart woman yet I feel very differently from you. I cannot comment on your friend’s wife’s reaction to your close relationship to her husband but to say that she may have overracted with “jealousy and possessiveness” as a result of extreme pain and hurt caused by her view, which I would agree with, that spouses should not on their own have strong emotional attachments and mutal attractions, whether physical or otherwise, with members of the opposite sex. Your frienship with her husband clearly crosses that line, and she took action, and I admire her for it. I infer from your post that you respected her request for no contact, and you were right in doing that woman to woman.

      The character of her husband from your post is difficult to conclude. If he believes in having open marriages also, then he will be content to continue in your relationship and should be able to include your husband in your interactions without jealousy or possessive actions. The end of his marriage will be of little consequence to him, and his wife can grieve and heal and find someone who is committed solely to her (which will be good for her). BUT there is NO WAY his “friendship” with you could have coexisted peacefully with his marriage, and stating that fallacy worries me greatly for you going forward. I predict you will be “grieving” again in the future as a result of your open-mindedness yet ignorance of human nature and emotional makeup. I may be wrong though as you may be so convinced in your life choices that you will be able to easily overcome any sense of compassion or respect for women of different viewpoints.

      Take care.

    • THE OTHER WOMAN

      Hello again,

      I am not surprised to have negative responses to my post since my point of view is opposed to most here but I thank the host of this website for posting my submission. I do not plan to hang around this site so I may not respond to future questions but to answer what has been posted so far..

      to Broken, I do not feel that either of us cheated since we were completely upfront with our spouses and I don’t blame anybody, including the wife who is otherwise a very nice lady.

      to Brian, yes initially my infatuation with this man did have a negative effect on my relationship with my husband but once I had spoken openly with him about it and the reasons for it (in my case is was related to my husband having been completely preoccupied with his work for over a year and therefore unavailable), our relationship has actually improved and we are both meeting each other’s needs more effectively. No I wouldn’t say that I prefer his company to my husband’s, it is just different and both have beautiful qualities.

      To Karen,

      I haven’t felt the need to peruse the reading recommendations etc. of this site but the fact that they are willing to post divergent points of view is a good sign. Yes, I agree that we were probably both naive to think that his wife could be “cool” with the situation, and to her credit she actually made efforts in this direction which ultimately went against her nature. Through this experience, I have come to realize that many people experience their relationships differently from my husband and I. This has only made me appreciate him more since personally, I would be miserable with a possessive spouse. I will be more careful in the future to respect other people’s boundaries.

      Good luck to all of you!

      • karen

        TOW – don’t know if you saw the other response to your post, but it suggested that you limit your emotional/physcial relationships in addition to your husband with UNMARRIED men instead of married men – this would be the compassionate and respectful act toward other women who may not feel the same way as yourself. I thought that was a brilliant suggestion, although it would take some self-control on your part to differentiate in your outside-of-marriage relationships.

    • Anita

      A coupe days ago I posted on another site I thought is was best to let everyone make there own journey. I hope I can help.
      I was once a betrayed spouse and my heart goes out to all of those who have been betrayed. My pain is long gone because I
      forgave my ex and his affair partner.
      TOW,
      When I first saw the post of you cutting this other mans wife down, I became defensive for her. But as the evening has progressed, I now realize you must also be in pain. We tend to hurt others when we have pain. Since this site is to help others
      I am going to pray for you, that God will help you through this time of your life.

    • Broken

      TOW…I would not expect you stay stay around long because people who believe they are right don’t want to hear they are wrong. The botton line is…you are responsibile for the end of a marriage. Because of your own admission there were problems in your marriage as well and you willingly turned your attention away from your marriage to a married man….There is no reason for the wife to “go against her nature” and be friends with you…you didn’t have a right to be there. I don’t know your story…don’t know the story of the other couple. WHat I do know is that a marriage has ended because of you and there is yet another woman out there dying inside today. She tried to set up boundries to do what she needed to do to understand and accept the EA. She did what every other BS would do. It doesn’t matter if you think you did nothing wrong…the wife thought otherwise. The husband is just as responsible as you are…..the wife an innocent victim who never invited you into her life…you just went there. You will never know the incredible…..devastating pain you have caused this woman. I hope you dont ever do it again…I suspect you will.

    • jewel

      Amen Broken!!

    • Paula

      Hi all, my opinion on TOW’s post differs a little from most. I felt she was trying to say that she developed this friendship, and realised it was crossing some boundaries, “just in the nick of time.” I didn’t feel like it was an open marriage, after all, her H said he would make separate sleeping arrangements, that is half opting out of the marriage, not welcoming (or really even tolerating happily) another outsider to it. As most men are (sort of) okay with women who have what may be loosely defined as EAs, to a degree, v sexual affairs, most women are appalled by EAs, and some can cope with PAs, especially if it is “just sex” (no emotional attachment) and I think that is what has happened here, AP’s wife is gutted, and TOW’s husband is kind of okay. I also believe that some affairs happen to “escape” an unhappy marriage, and that sometimes, that marriage needs to be ended, and the people who have engaged in the affair are just “testing the waters” before they leap. I think that may have been the case with her AP here. I also believe it is the coward’s way out, and it hurts too many people, but it does happen, I have several friends in (new) marriages, where one or the other of the partners was married to the “wrong” person first, certainly not the BS’s fault, most of these women certainly did NOT deserve to be treated so shabbily. I don’t like it, I don’t agree with it, I wish people would finish one relationship before starting another (and in my friends’ cases, all of the people who did it were men – the women were all single, and don’t even get me started on that!) but it does happen, and sometimes all are happier afterwards. I know many of you are very hurt by this kind of behaviour, but please don’t judge others who post their stories too harshly, they are just learning, too. I’m not sure why they don’t know this is wrong, but they don’t seem to care, until they get hurt, too.

    • sharkgirl

      Hi All not sure where to post really. I need some advice, 5 months down the line and he’s finally saying he’s ended it and he’s willing to go to counselling. We’ve yet to talk, but why should I believe him this time? Do you think he may have finally come out of the affair fog, I feel if he can’t be honest about these things at least when we go to see a counsellor we have no hope. I don’t know. Does it really work, getting back together and what is the main thing that really makes it work, I can’t go through this pain again and when for 3months after D Day he let me believe it was over and he was coming back to me why should it be different now. Now he is living at his Dads and the divorce is in process, and its nearly 6 months since d day.

      • changedforever

        I’m 12 mths out from DDay & here’s my suggestion. My H & I went to marriage counselling 3 days after DDay …the following week …our 2nd session…he told our marriage counselor he chose me & was committing to repairing the damage he’d done. Little did I know he was keeping the OW up to date on each of our marriage counseling sessions…for weeks & probably months.
        MAKE IT CLEAR TO HIM IF HE COMMITS TO REPAIRING, THERE IS TO BE NO CONTACT. Look him in the eye in front of your counselor and extend your hand to shake on it, asking him to give you his word. Then, do this: tell him his word includes no visits, picture message exchanges, drivebys, or any secret IM accounts. All of that is done. Be firm but compassionately persuasive. Tell him he’s made enough of a fool out of you already.
        This is what I WISH I’d done…might’ve saved me MONTHS of heartache too.
        My H admittted they’d had a secret MEEBO account until he deleted his acct in June…after almost 8 mths after DDay.
        I also wish I’d ended that scenario I just described to you with this line: ‘if I find out you’ve gone back on your word on this…even if its a year or 5 years after you’ve agreed to this, we’re done…so don’t wonder ‘why’ when I’m gone one day when you come home…..” as much as I would’ve had butterflies in my stomach saying this back then…I should’ve….
        Best wishes on your journey on your road to healing…what a ride I’ve had.

    • Roger

      Well it’s been almost 3 years since my EA’s were discovered & I continued with 2 or 3 of my affair partners periodically since then. My wife is devastated AGAIN all because of my selfishness and insecurities. The lastest episode was this past summer with an AP at work that I tried to rekindle after it was over sometime ago. I am an idiot. I’ve made another appointment with another therapist and I’m hoping I can get to the bottom of my cheating and lying issues. There’s no doubt that I love my wife and want to be in our marriage more than anything else in the world but I continue to cheat & lie. I too am tired of my actions and want to get the necessary help to find out why I do these things. She does NOT deserve any of this. It is NOT her fault. Guys and Gals who are cheating, take heed, look deep in yourself and your spouse, is the OW or OM any better than what you have? Do you know them as well as you know your spouse? What is lacking in yourself that causes thoughts of infidelity? I want & need to work harder to try and fix what I have broken if it’s not too late. My wife is the most understanding, most patient person on the planet but I might have pushed her to her limit and now, and like the idiot I am, I’m scared to death that it’s too late. I’m sorry again and I can not ask her for another chance. My chances have run out. If anyone out there has any suggestions or resources that can help me please post and let me know. My life depends on it.

    • Laura

      I’ve posted my story on “stupid things said while in an affair’.It will be 3 months on Jan, 16 since D-day. Its been a roller coaster for me since. for all of you that havent read my story. Here it goes: My husband left me because he didnt feel loved, supported, cared for. I hurt him a lot by not showing him all that he asked for. In a way I feel I deserve what I am getting which is his affair, the hurt the abandonment, the ‘I dont love you anymore”.Its too bad all this had to happen for me to realize that I still love him. Now that hes not with me I know how much I hurt him by not changing all the things that I needed to change. He felt abandoned, ignored, unloved and he says thats the reason hes having the affair with the other woman because in her, he found what he was lacking at home ,he found someone that actually cared for him. Its ironic when I think about all the endless times when he wanted to touch me, and kiss me and I always rejected him, because I felt like I wasnt in love with him anymore, we went into a rut,now I crave his touch, his kisses,sad uhh? the passion just ran out on my part., i was lazy to work on my marriage, even though he had ask me to work together to fix it and make it better, but No.. I didnt and look where I am today, feeling alone, abandoned just like I made him feel. I cant change the past.He was a great husband and father until I found out about the affair. He completely changed, he has hurt me in so many ways that I never thought a person that you love and loves you is capable of. Just yesterday, he told me that during the 12 yrs, we ve been together, he never cheated on me,said he had plenty of opportunities and women to cheat with. And I asked him “why Now” he answered, because “I dont love you anymore”. So I told him, so because you no longer love me, that gives you the right to lie and betray me? He didnt answer. I know its a way to lessen his guilt. Gosh, but it hurts. Hes told me the other woman has said to him if he wants to change his mind and come back to me, hes free to do so (shes got some nerve, who’s the wife here?) I cannot believe hes with someone that came into our broken marriage ininvited, a total stranger, he barely knows, an older,divorced woman he met at the club. He says they fell in love,it just happened, sure they think so, because they re in fantasy land now. I just cant understand my husbands actions and words, they dont match. Just 3 weeks before he left the house ,when I found out of the affair. He had told family and friends, how much he loved me, wanted to marry me and have a second child with me. 3 wks later,he was gone. It was a shocker, he snapped and went nuts. Not the person I was with for 12 yrs. He insisted they were just friends. A friend I didnt know about. His EA progressed within 1 month before he left. I had to find out on my own through phone records, because he wasnt man enough to tell it to my face, he had to lie, deceit, and that is very painful to accept. I wish he could have told me, “You dont make me happy any more, I dont love you” and would have left in a more civilized way possible if there is any such a way. Nevertheless it would have hurt, but when they bring a third uninvited person to the already messed up marriage, that changes everything, because the chances of fixing our marriage are zero because this person is between our marriage, and him out of the house make it impossible to fix anything.
      Because He is so “in love with her”, I know hes just infatuated. sure I would like for him to come home and give me a chance to work on our marriage, both of us for the sake of our family. sometimes I think he has already stopped loving me by all the things he has said to me, and all the blame hes put on me lately. Or I dont really know if I have lost him forever, and hes never coming back, if this is so I need to let him go, because I know that by trying to hold on to him, and he never comes back, I will suffer and hurt even more. But that is so hard, because I still love him, too late I realized, I dont know how to do it. Please help!!!!I need Advice. I have tried to back off , that has helped somewhat. Minimize contact with him, its hard sometimes because we have an almost 3yr old daughter that we need to talk about. Sometimes as much as I love him I wish he would just disappear from my life, it hurts to even see or talk to him. I have so much anger inside me, I know its no good for me, its so hard to get rid of it.

      • aida

        hey laura, your story is almost exactly like mine. only difference is that my husband’s current affair is not his first and of course i have not been the supportive wife (busy with career all the time). hence, there is precious little that I can offer him. Having said that, i told him i was leaving. Like Linda said, the decision to end the affair has to come from him. it can’t be forced – i learnt that the hard way earlier times. besides, my husband is much more stubborn and egoistic than Doug is so it’s really nonsensical to ask him to be so compliant to my requests.

        what i’m saying, is that you can try to be loving, supportive : but maybe as a friend. I know there is the No Contact phase that you should be undertaking but heck, i just send him short supportive messages which i hope will sink into his thick head. Other than that, I also read up a lot on self-improvement – not for ‘just him’, but to strengthen me and do things with the kids. i talk to kids frankly about the issues between mom and dad, maybe i influence them a little bit. (bad mom). i even learn about my own characteristic as a Distancer in relationships and how to be a Partner instead (hey who knows, i could end up having another relationship).
        What i’m trying to say here is that “demanding hubby end his relationship is futile (believe me, i’ve tried). it’s easier to just bide your time, develop yourself, become more attractive and knowledgeable, become more caring as your own self….regardless of whether he comes running with his tail between his legs or not. I think he is having a rebound relationship anyway, because a guy can’t just fall in love with a woman “just like that”. anyways, if he did, then it’s really a stupid way of falling in love….the woman obviously is just playing her cards right to offer him compassion and attention. what about dependability, and the rest of stuff that REAL LIFE is built on?
        in the meantime, you should dress up, go out and have friends he has never met before, have fun. Become radiant and happy – happy people are more attractive that sad ones. Be friendly, be courteous but show him that AS AN INDIVIDUAL, you have your act together, you are dependable and you are stable.
        Smile a whole lot more. become happy in your own skin. and hide your sadness (i personally know that is hard). but you preserve your dignity, your self respect and your own beauty. Instead of letting him see you like a ‘drowning, pitiful pathetic laura’ into ‘dang, why didn’t i see that beautiful laura before’. if he wants loving woman, then maybe show an aura of “lovingness” ; caring for the poor, etc. you never know. there could be a miracle.
        for me? i dunno – he knows me better than i know myself and he is JUST WAITING FOR ME TO SLIP UP. but i know that i want to make my positive changes last, BUT I WON’T BEAT MYSELF UP ANYMORE.

        • Lynne

          Aida-

          I’m curious as to whether you and your H are still together? Did you know about the other affairs or has this come out more recently?

          It sounds like you’re a good mom, but I really wouldn’t recommend involving your children in this (are they adults?)Afterall, in spite of his bad choices, he is still there father.

    • aida

      I found out about ‘first’ affair – tho’ i didn’t know whether it WAS the first, hint hint – like almost 10 years ago. that’s when it really started. i gave him hell, i begged, i pleaded, i cried, i threatened, i manipulated, and i developed devious plans. finally after 2.5 years, i said “oh phooey, i’m just gonna be a better person”. so i started sending him kindly, supportive text messages “May GOD bless you and give you happiness”. Over the next 10 years. then i got news/hints about other women and mini volcanic eruptions would occur and then the lies like “Oh, THAT (lovey-dovey) card, it’s from a guy”. (when clearly the card says To Love, from Beloved). I’m like OMG who does this guy think he’s kidding?? and then there were like when he came back from abroad posting and he’d get one of the sons to come sleep next to him at night, and when I said, I’m disappointed you asked him to sleep next to you when I should be the one next to you, and his response? A classic “Well, YOU WERE THE ONE WHO LET ME SLEEP ALONE ALL THESE YEARS”. well to be honest, we don’t really share similar sleeping/awake patterns and most times i’d end up in the big bedroom shared with the kids, (my sister was in the other room and the maid had her room), and hubby slept in the lounge with tv on. Okay, i know, shoot me already. so anyways, i told him many times, if you have anyone else (a wife can feel these things), if you have anyone else, please let me know so I know what to do (with my own life), but he never never told me that he had someone, and never told me to pack up my bags and leave : he just acted like i didn’t really exist. he brought woman to see and interact with kids when I was in London and he escaped for unexplained weekends, and dates…… all the while i was faithful. when i found out, i immediately knew he was more caring to her than to me, so i told him, Adios! Any other wife would have thrown plates to his head. one of the maids said if it were her husband, she’d throw a bomb at him. so, there. i have therefore applied for court-endorsed counselling but it may have to be postponed for some unforeseen circumstances. he seems adamant to go thro’ with my idea of a D – well, if he won’t let her go, and if he insists on lying about it….. i really don’t think i want to waste time arguing with a deceitful liar. I mean, i respect the him i used to know, before all this. but for a person – a human being – two human beings – to go to such extreme lengths ….. it boggles the mind. as for the kids, they are very close to me, and they are always saying “We are going with Mommy” (even when it’s Dad who makes more money). We are always close and i tell them EVERYTHING except about sex (well, they know men and women get under the covers and have kids, but they don’t know how), by the way we are MUSLIMS and my kids are 9 and 12 years old boys. they know Mommy has done some bad things (like ignoring and being brash to Daddy), and they know that what Daddy did is wrong. and they know WHY Mommy is walking out with them in tow. and they know WHY Mommy will not tolerate lying – and they know that Daddy is being stupid. They know why i do what I do, they know that there are morals in this land, and they know what it means to have integrity.

    • aida

      and as to your Q about whether we are still together …. logistically we still are. we have to live in the same house, or rather, i was advised to not leave yet because under the religious guidelines, it may be that i may be considered an ‘disobeying and disrespectful’ wife if i just upped and ran.

      this may cause me to lose child custody.

      for your information, when the first affair became known, i was shocked and horribly dismayed. i talked to friends, family, and literally anyone who would listen (turns out – there were SO MANY eager listeners). He never forgave me for that.

      when news of the 2nd affair broke, i kind of let only a few close friends know – just to gain strength – and of course some members of my family (only a limited, limited number of people). we did not discuss this at public gatherings nor at family events. NOT EVEN HIS MOTHER KNOWS. I’m not too sure if his bro knows but so far as i know, I have still protected his good name from the rest of the people. I have taken this step because of my continued respect for the man I married – not for the current alien who has abducted my husband – and i do it because i choose to honour myself and my parents. I swore to my Mom and Dad on their graves (yeah, i’m an orphan), that I would get out of this with dignity and maintain their good name. I think I did ….. I have remained cordial and supportive of my husband AND HIS FAMILY to a large extent although NOT AS SUPPORTIVE AS I USED TO BE which was previously 100%. Now, i’m like hanging back a bit. working on my own things mostly. I called the OW once, first morning I found out – she was rude, crass, callous, seriously …. someone said to me, “come on, Aida, you can’t expect the woman to be nice to you the way she is nice to your husband”, and my reply was “YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BE NICE, NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT FACES YOU. The way she was going on, you’d think I was the one out to get her husband, and not the other way around!!!!”

      having said that, i continue to send hubby text messages and email saying “I will always pray for your happiness. It saddens me that we have had to come to this, but whatever it is i pray that you will blessed and protected. Please take care of yourself and be happy”.

      You see, it is not whether he is a gentleman…..
      but it is because I am a lady, GOD-willing.

    • zoe

      Linda,
      My husband has been having an EA for almost a year, I found out 9 months ago and the affair is still going on. My husband left immediately after I found out but he came back for several reasons which none of them were for me. He says that he only cares about me but he doesn’t love me. I tried so hard to keep him but he left again. I haven’t contacted him at all since he left 3 weeks ago and i have filed for a divorce and he knows it. But as you understand I still love him and want him back! I am really suffering, I have lost a lot of Wight also.Any suggestion how I can have him back without him thinking that he has been forced to something he doesn’t want.

    • Lynne

      Zoe-

      Do you want him back even if his affair continues?

    • Dave

      My wife had an EA with my best friend that turned into a PA very quickly The entire thing lasted only three or so months I actually caught her on the day she broke it off, but the EA wasn’t really over, because she denied that anything happened! We were just friends. Not dealing with it allowed the EA to continue in her own mind for a year or more – perhaps two. Eventually we built a life again – until I got the bombshell this New Year’s eve.

      She finally admitted it wasn’t just a friendship or even an EA. It was a PA. I suspected all this time it was, but I always thought it was a one-time thing. Nope. She had been with him for three months and during that time she had even began contemplating leaving me for him, having a life with him, etc.

      Because it has been so long, neither he nor she remembers the details. That has been very painful, because I remember that time in our lives with scary clarity. I have that type of memory. The problem for me now, how it related to this subject, is that she cannot tell me how long the affair actually lasted, when it truly stopped in her mind, and the fact that it never stopped in his. He still “loves” (is infatuated with) her.

    • Jewl

      Zoe,

      My suggestion is for you to stay strong and believe in yourself. I think we have to find happiness within ourselves, with or without a man. Always weigh in the good side and bad side of everything. When the bad gets so bad that we can’t tolerate it any more, we have to decide whether we still want to keep it. This is just how I am thikning about it. The decision is yours.

    • Jewl

      Linda,

      I just read your article. It helps me understand the dynamics and why it is so difficult for the CS to stop. It also relieves me to know I am not alone in this kind of situation. I wish I had discovered this site 5 months ago. I think it would have reduced my pain by understanding the process earlier. Learning on my own, thinking. trying is just not very effective. Learning other’s experiences and mistakes help me and I will do the same for others.

      I do agree with your article. If you are soft with the CS they will just take advantage of it (maybe even unconciously). I have heard people say as long as you let them come home they have a place to sleep, eat and see the kids, they do nothing about the EA. They have a cake and ate it too. They don’t appologize, they don’t feel guilty. All they say is it’s the suffering spouses fault. I agree with your hardline method. Only when they feel uncomfortable, they will have to think. They will have to make a hard decision on which woman to keep. I can’t agree more with you and Doug, cutting off all contacts is the only way to heal the marriage. I like the saying that cutting off is the least the CS can do to compensate the pain and suffering the betrayed spouse had ensured. The CS has to be put on a spot to make a decision.

      The betrayed partner has no power on how he decides. The only control a betrayed partner has is whether she should stay or leave.

      I also believe the selfreliance and self-sufficience make us women more attractive. For one thing we don’t rely on them. They don’t have the upper hand there. Marriage is nice as long as it is a mutual respected and giving relationship. I think for women to be able to make a hardline, she needs to first become selfreliant.

    • sandy

      you both are so wise, and helpful. the choice is theirs, and what they choose. their needs, their wants, our attempts at speaking their love language, controlling our pain, our comments, reconnecting the right ways, counseling, therapy, communication , being good roommates, forgiving, –each day asks, is there enough time in this life time for it all? Being focussed, seeing separate lives as not an option, carrying our”married for life cards, understanding, giving space, taking care of ourselves, prayer, commitment, (being dual), you can know it, try to learn, be open minded, be shown new ways by those who have walked the journey successfully, and still your heart never rests, always wanting to have arrived to ‘ever after’. to be more feisty, how can a person really be someone they are not? more self-assured, knowing that attacks him, (he was my confidence) so there’s a lot to work on. Forgetting who I am–because I was a mother, a wife, –I always remembered I was , or wanted to be his lover. trying to be myself, yet do it all right. can we ever, I don’t think so. was I enough, were we? evidentially not. did I demand anything–or nothing, was that where I went wrong? was it not me at all buy he, and work, and what I couldn’t be a part of. was it a middle life crisis, or is that just a poor excuse? Searching for selfish happiness, cost us ours– we have both learned, but does what we learned serve to make what we have any more valuable –? somehow it wasn’t enough. Did I compliment him, have his back, rejoice in his successes, let him know how much he meant to me. I really did. was I in love,? Did it ever wane? never. would I just want all the same in return? would that be all– an ever enough? of course. I’m madly in love with him, I hurt for his disappointments, I rejoice for his successes, and I pray for us both. sometimes it seems life just doesn’t work out, and we don’t know why. have I given up hope,? I can’t. I don’t know how.

    • aida

      “stopping the emotional affair has to be a decision made by the cheater.”

      Dear Linda,

      I believe you are absolutely right here : we can’t force them to end the affair.

      and you know what?

      to be honest, this has been proven by my own experience. I have been in two / three ‘situations’ and i have to say, playing a pretend game of “i am not really bothered by your stupid affair” is yielding rather surprising results.

      a) 1st situation : stressful episodes of “how-could-you-be-so-stupid” anger-venting sessions : it made me feel so powerful when i expressed my feelings.

      it did not stop him. he was out to prove that he was NOT and NEVER WILL BE scared of me.

      b) 2nd situation : think i was the victim, holed away in the back room, planning my escape from this dreadful life.

      i doubt it stopped him….

      c) looking at things from a diverse range of perspectives

      i have been trying to incorporate spiritual healing, psychology and women’s intuition in one package.

      Trust in GOD is of course first and foremost.

      the other is trying to understand how entrepreneurs like Sara Blakely who turned US$5,000 into US$1billion in just about 15 years….created their own successes.

      Blakely didn’t have success presented on a silver platter. She was driven by her own self-belief. She was not afraid of rejection or obstacles.

      And to be honest, this was the first time i have started reading sales psychology books : e.g. “So You’re New To Sales”. it’s got me thinking : the potential buyer (i.e. prospect) would buy whatever you are selling IF WHATEVER YOU ARE SELLING CAN SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS FOR THEM.

      you don’t tell them the price outright…. instead you offer them VALUE first.

      okay…..so someone may kill me on this. but if an outright kill won’t stop them, then maybe at least you can entice them with some VALUE….primarily YOURS.

    • Greg

      Hey look, the site has become popular enough for spammers to start paying attention. Now go crawl back under whatever rock you came out from under and stop trolling for business on here. You could at least put some effort in to it and not just cut and paste the same thing from the multiple sites you posted this to.

      • Doug

        Hey Greg, I guess our spam filters didn’t catch that one. I’ll delete it. Thanks.

    • Greg

      Yeah, spam filters won’t get this type, it takes a moderator and IP ban since it’s manually cut and pasted. It’s just an annoying form of advertising spoof.

    • Disappointed

      Next Tuesday is the 1 yr mark for the start of my H’s EA. He is NC for 11 months. Tonight he said that how she made him feel and what she said made him realize what was missing in our life. She texted him things like “I cant believe you make time to talk with me” and “I cant believe you think abut me”. I would never have said those things – not even in the beginning. My self esteem before the affair would not have made me think of those things. My self esteem now is battered. 20 years thrown away for silly school girl games. My husband left when I confronted him last November. We have been living apart but he is with me a lot at our home. Two weeks ago he told me to decide if he could come home in an open marriage or if we will divorce. Please no one yell or lecture me… Last night I said come home, I dont want an open marriage but if those are the only terms I take them. Then he said he has to think about it. Did I call his bluff? He is playing all noble saying he thinks that would destroy me. I told him not to make this out as some noble decision. What he doesnt understand is that I will not be his friend if we are not together. So I will try to settle for awhile to see if his depression and MLC can clear.

    • Rick

      This is to both Linda and Doug and I hope you can both give your perspectives. This one article in particular brought into focus all I had been feeling this past year and a half. Things that I thought were logical turned out to be the complete opposite. I felt like George Costanza after awhile. Maybe I should have done the complete opposite of my logic and instincts. Maybe my life became a Seinfeld episode..LOL But my question first to you Linda is did you feel at times that you were dealing with 2 different Doug’s. The one you knew but could feel that something was missing and the one who was acting completely opposite. The one that when you felt you were making progress, you come to find out they were almost running to the other woman? Because that’s how I feel at times. Inching closer, she’ll drop her guard and let me in to her heart for a few minutes. Then not but a day later, hear her talking about this other person in the most positive of ways. And for you Doug, Did you ever stop and ask yourself, “What the hell am I doing?” Did you feel and see the wreckage or were you disconnected. You could see it but the feeling just wasn’t there. The funny thing is with my case. Her behavior is something she would criticize in others. Thank your both for this site. It seems that whenever I find myself struggling and praying for some insight, up pops an email for here with an article the clears my mind and helps to realize that I’m not going crazy. My instincts are correct. I think it is possible to understand if you have an example to base it one. Thanks Rick

      • Linda

        Rick, Yes, yes, yes. I felt like I was definitely dealing with two different people. I believe this is the reason why I tried so hard to save our marriage. At times the Doug that I fell in love with would surface and I would see hope. Then the other Doug, would come out and tell me all the things he was unhappy about, how he deserved better, etc. and I would hit bottom again. This went on for quite awhile and eventually I couldn’t take it any longer and was planning to leave – or make Doug leave. You may want to consider the possibility that she may still be involved in her affair, or at least in contact with the OP. Best of luck to you!

        • Doug

          This was sent to our email by mistake.
          Rick says:

          thank you Linda, yes she still communicates. She has told me she needs her space, that she trying to find her identity and how she came to let someone in our relationship told her that she wasnt the person she thought she was. at first when i found the letters she wanted to try and rekindle our love but she would never stop writing this other man. when i first foundout after discovering the letters. her first response was, “He’s broken like me.” Then during this intense period her view of our history changed. I’d say about a year ago her writings about our problems quit and they wrote about themselves. I have moved out again. It is strange that this is the same woman 2 years ago who would tell me in letters and cards that “I was her heart!” But this time has shown me also how many problems our relationship did have and the baggage i was carrying that effected us. Seeing a very good counselor now. With her just the pain of abuse in her life from her
          previous marriage and how she pushed much of it under the rug. She has had a tough existence. both her sons involved in drugs and verbal abuse towards her. i did my best but being a stepdad was at times a no win with all three of them. tried to show her sons that they had a chance and even talked to their father to be involved in they’re lives and end the fighting with her. the boys resented that i wasnt going to accept them walking all over her and she resented the simple rules they needed and the accountability they lacked. either i was to tough on them or if i talked to them, i was to easy. the oldest has finslly getting his life in better shape but it took a year in jail for selling drugs and the youngest is finishing rehab in Nov. i didnt know how out of control things were. Always thought weathering the storm together strengthens yhe heart but our problems were deeper then i thought. But I am learning my issues and working to make myself stronger
          and better but it is hard. I do finally feel that something is at work here. Almost if God is guiding this. Did you ever feel when you were seeking answers that you were being guided. Can’t explain it but whenever I struggle and ask for insight things like this article appear and bring comfort. Thanks Rick. I admire both you and Doug for your honesty and openess. Sometimes it feels as if im the only one going thru this.

        • Rick

          Thanks Linda, She is still communicating in fact during the period we were trying with our relationship, she never stopped. During this time she’s complained that I haven’t given her the space she wanted. That I was selfish. I tried to tell her that at times, my intention was to leave but then she’s open up her heart about her feelings for me. Break down crying, telling me she did love me, how confused she was, every few months wanted to be intimate. Those are the times when hope would enter my thoughts again and I continue trying to save it. It’s stinks recovering. How the crushing of trust from a woman that I’ve spent 7 years with. How her telling me that I was wrong when I first mentioned affair to her. Actually thinking that maybe I got it wrong. I was in her “Fog” as well. Did you feel the same also?

      • Doug

        Hey Rick, While in the fog I can say that I was quite disconnected, but as things started to get crazy and my relationship with Tanya started to deteriorate that began to change and I really saw and felt the immense pain that I was causing. Now after all this time, it’s so much easier to look back and clearly see how stupid I was and how stupid the EA was.

        • Doug

          This was sent to our email by mistake.

          Rick says:

          Thanks Doug. I wanted to say how much i admire you for your candor. It really has helped me to try and understand whats going on with her. We are al human and i know in my life, I’ve made some mistakes that hsve hurt others. Sometimes looking at the man in the mirror is the hardest thing to do. Thanks Rick

    • melissa

      To reply to Linda’s comment of 3/11, no I don’t think my H’s EA was a SA, because when I confronted the OW, she told me she never ‘fancied him’. It was a case of him needing the attention (and dreaming of a SA/new relationship) and of her using him for her own purposes. I also thought we had a wonderful marriage but I was living in a bubble of self-deceipt, I now see. I thought I was answering his needs but I wasn’t and he wasn’t the friend and companion and husband that I wanted. Things are much better now although the shadow of doubt and lack of trust is always on the horizon but hey, he’s talking of celebrating our 25th anniversary next year with a cruise and he’s already put a deposit down – this said, the really important thing is that he seems to be HERE, NOW, with ME and not in an obsessional dream.

      • Linda

        Hi Melissa,
        Thanks for the response, I couldn’t sleep and saw it come in on my computer. I am glad that you don’t think your H had a S/A, due to what the other woman said. But did he ever sleep in the same bed as her, like my H did? Mine also needed extra, extra attention for a 6 yr. younger blond and flirt. She really came on to him really good when he had been drinking and I sure wasn’t there at the conference, It’s hard to think of anyone carrying on that long with another person and not having sex, just like I think about my H and him being in bed with her, I just don’t know and it hurts so bad. If I knew for sure that he did, that would be it for me, I think, like in your case, but I don’t think my H was in it for sex, just the extra and new attention to stroke his ego. Believe me, he couldn’t have gotten any more attention at home than I gave him. She used him to make her self feel good about herself, as she was a secretary doing menial work (no offense intended) and he was a Senior Vice President of the 3rd. largest business in the US, just can’t mention it. So here she was fooling around with him and everyone at the office after a while was aware of it, so it had to make her feel special. He never even knew that other’s knew about it at work. She dreamed of leaving him with her 2 little girls, I guess and maybe have my H, but he did make it clear to her that it wasn’t going to happen, even though the love letters say different. So they both lived at the age of 34 and 40, like they were teenagers again, dancing, drinking and just having fun. I also thought that we had the most loving and wonderful marriage, with some of the same issues like other ones. But I thought our love was so special for each other and for me it was, but obviously it wasn’t for my H as he was willing to risk it for her. Of course he thought I never would find out and if I did that I wouldn’t leave him. I look back on our marriage and yes he loved me, but it was a selfish love, as his needs always came first. He never gave me the emotional support when I needed it, complimented me very much, nor supported what I might have wanted to do. Yet I did everything for him to make him happy, as he was working hard earning a good living and I was raising the 3 children. It took the A for me to not look at him through rose colored glass’s. Our marriage is falling apart as I type this and I just want to leave and we’ve been married almost 51 yrs. These past 4 yrs. have really showed me what kind of man I have been married to, with the exception of the past 9 months, when he decided to change for the better. I know it’s because he doesn’t want to be alone, depend’s on me for his happiness but he hasn’t gotten that in quite a while as I am angry that he won’t answer my questions about the A that he didn’t do 25 yrs. ago and it’s now haunting me. I’m happy that you are going to have a nice 25th. Anniversary. Ours wasn’t as he was having the A and definitely wasn’t showing me any kind of special attention during that time when we went to the Virgin Islands. We never had a honeymoon when we got married and I was so excited to go. Our 3 children gave us a party and everything, but he never even danced with me that night, just drank to much and partied with everyone else. Then our 50th. was last Nov. 18th. and it was one of the hardest days of my life. We had a very small wedding and reception at his Mom’s home, I made my dress, etc. I had always dreamed of renewing our vows on that day and having a real nice reception with our children and grandchildren. How long ago did you find out about the A, as I’m new to the site and don’t know everyone’s story? I can’t tell you how happy I am that he is trying and is remorseful for what he did, as mine wasn’t. Five yrs. of therapy, Retro weekend, more therapy, but he really didn’t participate, but I chose to love and forgive him as I was so tired of dealing with all of it and I made that choice. After the A he still didn’t treat me very special, still danced with other woman and drank to much at times, but I kept trying to make it work, he sure didn’t. I just still loved him then and also had new grandchildren to keep me occupied, the first being twins born 5 months after the A. Then the other 5 started coming one by one and that’s where my attention and happiness was placed. He was given my love also, but I still had a lot of trigger points to deal with as he took her to so many places where I pass by all the time. He took her to the beach, our restaurants and the same hotels where we celebrated our anniversaries, as he could get them free. He even made her my favorite drink and let her play with my tennis racket. Took me to her home at Christmas and other places together with her husband for cocktails. So all the things that we shared, tennis together, our love of sunsets on the beach he ruined for me. Even when we go out somewhere and he wants to hold my hand, I think of him holding hers. I know if he had been remorseful from the very beginning, instead of lying, defensive, angry and not telling me anything about what took place, I wouldn’t be where I am today. Sorry for rambling, it’s just been a rough day and it’s coming up on D-day, 11/6 and sometimes I would forget it, he doesn’t even know or remember the date, which I don’t understand? I wonder how many men in particular remember the date of their D-day. This one is so much on my mind as it keeps being brought up due to election day, Take care of yourself and I’m happy that you are doing so well. I’m going to start signing that way, so I’m not mixed up with the real Linda and Doug.

        Linda T

    • melissa

      Linda T
      It’s very difficult to answer your note, everyone’s circumstances are different. I think that men are hardwired to need attention especially as they hit the mid-life point. It’s not an excuse but something I have heard a lot about from other women who are lovely and yet their H seeks a younger woman’s attention, needs to be made to feel a hero and in the process completely forgets his own life, his own wife, children and destroys his happiness and his wife’s.

      I don’t think my H is particularly remorseful, I think he’s totally forgotten about the A, it’s like it never happened(for him, we’ve been happy forever, it seems) but for me there are many triggers (we recently spent a few days in a lovely place but it was tainted by the fact he’d written the OW a letter asking her to spend a w/e there with him). I try to get over it by appreciating the here and now, remembering the changes in him and in me. If your husband wants to hold your hand, let him and try to savour the feeling of togetherness, even is this very small way.

      My H never gave me the answers to my questions and maybe it’s time for you to ask yourself whether the answers will actually help your recovery. It sounds like you both need to talk and establish boundaries more solidly but I also know that if I said to my H ‘I need to talk to you and here are the boundaries we should both adhere to’, he’s freak out so I can only hope that he has understood them. What I am clear about is that I am not prepared to accept an EA ever.

      Take care of yourself, think of the little things every day – it sounds morbid but I have been wondering ‘what would I think about the EA if my H died just now? Would it matter in the big scheme of things? Would I be bitter, angry still (probably)? Would I also be able to see the lost happiness amongst the fears and the sorrow? Probably.

      • Linda T.

        I’m sorry if my posts are hard to answer, I think a lot of our lives have been mixed up by what we’ve been through. I think you are a strong person to be able to handle the A as well as you do. My biggest hurdle is that he slept with her and I have to be sure that they didn’t have sex during those 2 or 3 weekends during their 3 or 4 yr. affair. We have only been with each other and I treasured that and if he did have sex with her, that’s a deal breaker for me. I’m glad that you have been able to live without some of the questions you might want answers to, but I can’t. I want to understand why and how he could do and say the things he said to her if he truly loved me? I feel that by him holding back information that I know he remembers, it’s not being honest with me, especially the sex part. That’s not fair, I deserve better. The E/A was the hardest thing that I’ve ever been through as I was lied to for a yr. and got the results as they trickled in, like so many other BS. I can’t seem to move on now until I know the total truth, no matter what the cost is. Yes, the answers are very important to me, my mind can’t seem to rest until I understand WHY!

        When you say, “What I am clear about is that I am not prepared to accept an EA ever.” Are you referring to if he had another one on you?

        I guess our H are a lot alike, as yours wasn’t particularly remorseful either. My H has totally forgotten about the A and like yours, acts like it never happened and we should just move on with our life, no matter if I am happy or know if I love him anymore or not. That comes about from these past 4 difficult yrs.

        I did what you did for over 20 yrs. and now it’s just all coming back like PTSD and my mind just won’t stop thinking about it and I feel it’s because it was never addressed enough and question’s answered. I don’t think I could be as brave as you and go to the same hotel that he was talking about taking the OW, but that’s just me. We are all different. I’m also not sure about what you mean when you say that we should set boundaries either?

        You mentioned my accepting things like they are, I wish I could but right now I can’t. No, I don’t want him to die, but I do want to be happy and he has some control over that by being honest with me. A marriage has to be built on trust and of course we both know that after an A, we can hardly ever get that totally back again. Yes, if something happened to him, I would still be bitter about the pain he cause the two of us and also the loss of happiness, so I guess we feel the same way in regards to that.

        I’m sorry these have been so long, guess I just can’t sleep and it’s on my mind, so I’m venting and you just happen to be the sweet lady that is up to answer me.

        Linda T.

        • melissa

          Hi Linda T
          I hope you managed to get some sleep.
          To answer your question, I don’t think my H has had another EA but if he does, I’ll have to make a stand and leave as it would mean he has understood nothing at all!

          As to remorse, maybe he does feel some remorse deep inside. I don’t know. What I see is that he appreciates me much more, he includes me in his life, he tells me he loves me. It feels like wee’re friends again, like we’re together in this. Boundaries = he has to respect the fact that I am not comfortable with him flirting, that I will not accept being lied to etc.

          Take care

          • Linda T.

            Thanks Melissa,
            I’m heading to bed as I am so tired. It was such a bad night, separation, divorce, arguing and him just not wanting to deal with any thing any more. He just doesn’t get what I need from him and not sure if he ever will. I just want the truth, I don’t think that’s to much to ask. I know you don’t want your H to lie to you anymore and I feel the same as I don’t trust what he tells me. Anyway, I am so tired, 5 hrs. of sleep last night and won’t get much tonight.
            Take care,
            Linda T.

            • melissa

              Sounds like a tired cliche but try and get some sleep, it’s important.

              I, like you, wanted the truth but I don’t think I ever got it. What I realised is that my truth was different from my husband’s truth. To him, his EA was not an affair (however, I think he became aware after a long while that he had hurt me very badly and damaged our marriage, which was when he started to change). To me, the EA was a deal breaker, the one thing I would never do and never expected him to do.

              I think the OW was at first a deep infatuation, she made his heart beat faster he wanted her but he came to find that she was a needy, difficult, self-obsessed person. By then, he did not know how to get out of the relationship – he’d lied too many times. There was also a pull and pull effect over the years. Either she’d call him after a few months or, for some bizarre reason (probably because he was depressed) he’d call her and it would start all over again. When he was seeing her, he was awful to me and I had no idea why. I hadn’t changed, so what was going on? Yet, I was unable to wake up and ask myself what was happening. I kept my head truly and fully in the sand!

              So when I asked for the truth, I did not get my truth, he did not know his truth either.

              I am not sure he has been able to delve into himself deep enough to find out why he did this but at least he is now aware of our boundaries and I hope this is the basis upon which we can find happiness again.

            • Linda T.

              Hi Melissa,
              Can I tell you that you have no idea how much what you have said to me has helped me. As you can see I still can’t sleep, to much is going on in my mind right now. Thanksgiving and going home to see my Dad for his 92nd. birthday and when my H got mad tonight, he told me to go by myself. My Dad would be so hurt as he looks at my H like a son. We were suppose to come back early so that we could celebrate my birthday, which is the same as my Dad’s, but with our grandson and daughter and family when we got back. None of the grandchildren have any idea about what their Grandpa did and I would never want them to find out, it would hurt them to much. Then we have Christmas coming up, grandchildren home from college, etc. It’s an awful time for this to be going on, like my H suggested that I move into our daughter’s Mother-in-law’s apartment now, as things were so bad tonight, put the home on the market and just sell it. This is how he acts when he gets so upset if I bring up one question. But it was the same way after the A, like yours, he wouldn’t answer any of my questions and would get so defensive. None of this was good for me after having major Melanoma surgery 6 weeks after D-day and a total Hysterectomy also, 18 months after D-day. My body went through so much pain, physically and emotionally. I also developed Migraines, panic attacks and deep depression. This was from a person who was in such good health, played competitive tennis on two leagues, ran 3 miles a day and did weights. I kept myself up, looked younger than my age, the glass was always half full and my outlook on life was so positive. I loved my husband so much, even though he drank to much at times and still didn’t give me emotional support if I needed it. Those were some of my best yrs. in regards to health, happiness, love and looking so good for my age. I actually had hair back then, now I have to wear a wig as I have lost most of mine through the last few yrs. Thyroid and stress, hormones, alopecia, etc. It’s so embarrassing as it makes me mad, because I’m now 68, no hair and need to lose 20 more lbs. I don’t look fat, but I just want to get back to a size 10 or 12, not a 14. So some of the best yrs. of my life in regards to how happy I was are gone and now I’m 68, my bubbly and positive personality is gone for now and has been for a while. It’s sad, as those yrs. were some good ones in regards to how I felt about life and love in our marriage. Like you, I never expected my H to ever do this to me as he knew how i felt about A’s, just like you did. It was a deal breaker to me. I had put up with his drinking and control over me and everything in regards to our home and money. I had always told him that he would be out the door if that ever happened, but due to his lies and minimizing the A, in the beginning, I loved him enough that I could deal with just the lunches for a yr. Then the truth kept coming out in between the surgeries, so I was more vulnerable and fragile. That totally changed after the A, at least the control did. I would never be controlled by him again and that has stayed that way.

              My H also didn’t think that an EA was that bad, after all he didn’t have sex ??? with her or attempt to and like you, I’ll never know. He knew my feelings and I would never do that to him. He didn’t seem to get how much pain I was in and if he did, he surely wasn’t very remorseful. He continued his same old ways, drinking to much, dancing with other woman and not trying to make up for the pain he caused me. Only now is he trying by not drinking and stopping the control of everything. But his helping me by telling me what went on and why he felt he needed this A, he can’t seem to come up with an answer. If anyone needed IC after the A, he sure did, even though I went to IC and we went to MC, he wasn’t there. He is just now seeing the damage that he has done to our marriage and me. But if he loved me enough he would try to help repair it now.

              I think my H was like yours in the beginning of the A, she came on to him, he liked it and pursued it. I feel that he was infatuated with her, loved her flattery that fed his ego, even though it was fed at home. She supposedly wasn’t happy in her marriage, so he could come to her rescue and listened to her. They also talked about their work, had drinks and dancing every week at the beginning and it slowed down a little later during the 3 yr. A, as her H had found about it. My H sure didn’t want the A during the first couple of yrs., I can tell that by his love letters, unlike your H. Her H did divorce her about a yr. after the A ended, so maybe their marriage was in trouble, not that is an excuse to come after mine.

              My H also was mean to me, actually cruel sometimes. He wasn’t as romantic, didn’t talk to me as much about his job as he was sharing it with her. Turned away from me in bed at night, said he was tired and I thought he was. Drank a lot more, but I thought it was his job causing him to change so much. If I had ever thought that he would have had an A, I would have looked up the signs, as I sure know them now, but I trusted him so much that an A never entered my mind. He had all of them, loosing weight, trying to act younger, like he was going back to his teenage yrs. I definitely think that it could have been a midlife crisis. He was 37, our daughter getting married, so he was probably feeling like he was getting older, not that it’s an excuse.

              I asked him last night when we were trying to talk, what was it about him that needed this extra attention? He was surely getting it at home. His comment was that it felt good when she flattered him and he just went for it because he wanted it. No thought of me or marriage or children. The other thing that is never mentioned is this. Why don’t people who are having A’s ever think that they are messing around with another man or woman’s spouse? He never even gave it any thought, not the two little girls that lost their family relationship after the divorce. Their lives were changed forever due to the selfishness of two people who never gave it a second thought as to what they are doing. Not to mention our hearts that were broken and will always have that tiny hole in their heart where it hurt so much from pain that it never healed.

              Mine knows the boundaries also, but for me to smile again that’s another story. So on that note, I’m finally going to bed.

              Thank you so much for taking time to explain your story to me, you have no idea how much it helped me.

              Linda T.

    • Amanda

      Linda,
      I am having a lazy early morning by choice, because I know the rest of my week is going to be busy. However I look forward to this week because each day is new day, and I know that each morning when my alarm goes off I have many choices to make for that day, and all I can hope for is that I make right choices, and maybe I will come across
      a opportunity where I can brighten someone elses day,
      with maybe a smile, or doing a simple little task for them, but whatever I do know at the end of each day I need to look at what I done for that day. Sometimes I mess up and
      say or do something that was wrong, or I negected to do
      what should have been done. So I confess it and when I hear my alarm go off, I get another chance to try again.
      Linda, 11/6/12 is a new day, and it is a chance for new
      beginnings.
      Don’t let what happend 11/6 from the past, spoil the new day 11/6/12 instead think about what you can do to brighten someone elses day.

    • Amanda

      Linda,
      The past is done, and the history of will it never change, all
      we can do it to forgive it and put it behind us.
      I can share my own experience with you,
      Linda there have been many many times in my own past where I had every right to be angry and I was. But I learned
      the only way or for me at least, was to forgive and put it behind me. I have learned not to dwell in the past, it did
      me no good, all it did was make me more upset and angry, and I learned I had a choice over my thoughts, I could dwell over the past or I could look forward to each new day, and see it as a new beginning. I have chosen
      to leave the past go, and I now look forward to each day,
      and make new goals for my future, it could be simple as
      redoing a room in my home, or now I have another new
      goal, and that is getting rid of the couple extra pounds I gained over the summer, had to many sweets.
      But whatever your goal is, let it be a goal just for you, something that makes you feel good about you.

    • Amanda

      Linda,
      Focus on yourself, and what goals do you want for yourself,
      what are the things that interest you, that you want to develop or do. What are the things you look forward to.
      The more you fill your life with postive good things the more
      you will feel better about yourself.

    • Linda T.

      Amanda,

      I know that you can’t know about all that I’ve already done to forgive and heal, as it was posted a couple months ago, I think. I did do the forgiving, forgetting, pretty much and got on with life for 20 yrs. with my WH still not being remorseful, treating me special and loving me like he should have after what he did to me. I went on, however, putting up with his many faults, drinking, controlling and lack of emotional support when I needed him the most for 20 yrs. It was only during the past 3 or 4 yrs. that he became like he was during the A. Drank even more, anger, not supporting my back pain that was caused by slip & falls and no fault of mine. I had always supported him all our 50 yrs. of married life, even after the A when he was in the hospital for 3 weeks and I slept in the room to help him as he was so sick. I was still there for him, yet up until the past 9 months, after he stopped drinking his 3 glass’s of wine every night and much more at family and social gatherings, did things come to a head this past yr. I had let the past go 20 yrs. ago and now it’s all come back to me. He wasn’t the husband that I thought I had married and yes I am angry, as I was the best wife he could have had and loved him so much. He has taken so much away from me in our lives and yes I can blame myself before the A for putting up with his drinking, lack of emotional support and his selfishness of putting himself first, over me and our 3 children. He wasn’t a good Father, so I did both. I should have given him an ultimatum many yrs. before the A and I’ll own up to that, but it’s hard when you don’t have a career to support yourself and the children.

      I don’t like the way I am, nor do my daughter’s as they are blaming me for breaking up the family unit and I think that is so unfair. They feel that their Dad shouldn’t have to tell me the truth about what happened many yrs. ago about the A (claims he doesn’t remember) and that I am wasting my life and making his miserable. God, do I want to let the past go, but I need to know the truth about the sexual part and I can’t get it. If he had sex with her, I don’t want to be with him, no matter what, but I can’t get the truth. He’s not going to tell me as he probably knows what I will do.

      I have tried to focus on myself and did that for about a month and now I’m falling apart again. I was exercising and getting out everyday to try and get this 68 yr. old body back to the physical shape it was when I played competitive tennis for 35 yrs. Lose another 20 lbs. and stay healthy to see my 7 grandchildren grow up, get married and have children of their own.

      He could help me, just sit down calmly and try and explain to me how this happened, why and after so many red flags where he was almost caught, why didn’t he give her up if he loved me and knew that I would be so hurt by it? Most men don’t get that chance, but he had 3 opportunities and he risked his job, children and me for someone he says that he didn’t have sex with? Just slept with her so they could go off on 2 weekends in 3 yrs., that’s the story I’ve been told. I just want the truth about the sex and when it ended and I can’t get that from him. I am living with a man that could still be lying to me, what kind of marriage is that?

      I know I need to take care of myself, but the panic attacks and depression are setting in again, even with medication, Klonopin and Wellbutrin. I don’t want to take the stronger anti-depressants as I don’t do well with them and don’t feel that I should have to just to be able to smile. I smile with other people and am not on them, but can’t be happy and smile with him.

      I don’t know where any of this is going, but it does make me upset that my children, who are adults are putting the whole thing on me.

      Anyway, I do appreciate your trying to help and know where you are going with this advice. I am going to go back to exercise on Monday and try and find a therapist again that I think can help me sort this out, since he isn’t willing to talk about it anymore.

      Blessings,

      Linda T.

      • Amanda

        Linda T.
        I wish you the very best!

        • Linda T.

          Thanks Amanda,
          I know my situation is difficult and all I can say is I’m trying my best. Their are so many other things that I won’t even go into, I’ve said so much already.

          Linda T.

        • Linda T.

          Amanda,
          I just re-read your wonderful advice and you have made some very valid suggestions, I just hope that I can look at it the way you do. It was a horrible night tonight as I had a really bad trigger point while watching a show with my H on TV. I should have let it go, but he asked a question about what was happening and I explained using what he did as an example, to help him understand. He is very remorseful now, 25 yrs. later, accused me of trying to hurt him and I told him that I wasn’t trying to do that. I was just bleeding inside and I needed him to help me fill that hole. We finally just stopped, talked about separating and then agreed that we definitely need to see a marriage counselor. He’s in bed now and I’m wide awake as usual.

          Thanks again for the advice, I wish I was as strong as you.
          Linda T.

    • Linda T.

      To Everyone,
      I am having a problem with the change of my website address, so I hope that they are going to the [email protected], instead of the previous one. I have contacted Linda & Doug and hope to get this straight.

      Thanks, Linda T.

    • rachel

      Amanda,
      How did you get such a positive attitude? I have good days and I have bad days.
      I did watch Oprah last night and her guest was Joel Osteen. I enjoyed both of the shows last night. I look forward to reading his book.
      My neighbor told me it was on and pretty much insisted that I watch it.
      People have come out of the woodwork supporting me during this very difficult time.

      • Linda T.

        Amanda,
        I would have the same question as Rachel. I also watched Joel Osteen on Oprah last night. It seems so easy but it isn’t always that way. I’m glad that you are getting some help also. I’m going to look for a psychologist today also, we desperately need one if we are going to make it.

        Linda T.

    • melissa

      Hi Linda T
      Seems like you’ve been through the mill and I do sympathise with your plight, especially in view of your state of health – hence repeating what Linda always says in these pages: look after yourself first of all. Whatever it is that you need (I do yoga and swimming, went for long walks at the beginning when things were really bad but whatever works for you) AND sleep. There may be some techniques you can use to try and get a better night’s sleep, you need all the energy you can muster at the moment.

      As to men and their need for flattery, I don’t think we can change that, they are the ones who have to be able to see how they behave and cut it out. I always try and live by the motto ‘do unto others as you would wish to be done unto’ but my H did not when he was ‘in the fog’. It was like he had become a completely other person: selfish, uncaring, absent. So you’re not alone. And yes, he never thought about me during all that time although I am sure he knew deep down that he was doing something wrong (but the lure of the OW and the ego boost were too strong).

      My H also became a monster when I tried to get some answers out of him. Just like your husband talking about your moving out, my H also threatened me with what he knew would hurt me even more, talking about suicide and going to some lengths to prove that he would if I didn’t back off and stop asking questions I have kept a shirt that he tore up in a fit of rage and a muddy dress that I wore the day he pushed me to the ground because I had dared say that the OW had a new Best Friend now (someone he knows, another married man) and he couldn’t take it (male pride wounded, jealousy that someone else had taken his place?). These fits of rage only happened a few times but I know now that I will not tolerate them ever again.

      So hang in there, your husband is trying to find a way NOT to look at his behaviour by pushing the blame onto you at the moment, that’s so much easier than taking a deep look at himself and the reasons for his drinking, his womanising and his way of life. With a bit of luck, it’ll come but it takes a long time. Our therapist (whom we only saw a few times as my H felt it was all ‘mumbo jumbo’) told me that it would take at least 2-3 years and she was right. I had to hang in there, bitter, angry, scared, biting my tongue every day (I still do think about the EA/OW regularly, I still have issues with trust) but time does heal.

      • Linda T.

        Melissa,
        I promise this will be short. I was exercising, stretching, yoga and senior aerobics, along with weights. I also started walking in the beginning, along with tennis, but hurt my back on several slip & falls, not from tennis that stopped that. I do hope to get back to it someday, as I love it. I do it on the backboard of the racket ball court on the Y, it’s fun. I’ve just been out of the loop again for the past month and need to get back, which was my plan for the day, now I’m behind due to lack of sleep. I’ve tried ambien to help me sleep and it doesn’t help much. Just switched to melatoin and Valerian root, but it’s not helping either.

        Your comment about men’s ego was right on! My H doesn’t seem to need that as much now, but he does seem to light up when a pretty woman is helping him. I know we can’t change that, it’s their problem but I sure would never put up with another A.

        My H I am sure didn’t think of me much either, Christmas and birthday gifts seem to be a problem for him to have to shop. If I was sick, I still cooked dinner and one time I accidentally splashed pool acid in my eye and I couldn’t see. He actually got mad and yelled at me. I had to drive my own self to urgent care, as he said he didn’t have time. He didn’t care at all about my eye and I could have lost my sight. When I tried to question him about the A he would get livid and totally lose his temper and I mean really mean. He never did to me what your H did, but the verbal abuse was cruel and it happened for about 4 yrs. I so regret staying when I look back on my life with him. He has had some of the same ones during this past yr. as he doesn’t want to answer any questions and feels that I shouldn’t be asking them. Our daughter’s telling him that he shouldn’t be doing it doesn’t help. I almost killed myself twice with an overdose of sleeping pills and the only thing that stopped me was my children and grandchildren, not him. I went from shock, to sadness, to HB, then to depression, anger and then panic attacks. I did all the work on the marriage to keep it together, he did nothing to salvage it. No remorse or begging for forgiveness, things to make me feel special, like he did for her. He took her out for all her birthdays, wrote incredible love letters and I got none of that. Mine always threatens me with something, like me going by myself to see my Dad and that was after an argument, which he does all the time. He needs to grow up in the worse way. He’s highly intelligent but is a selfish, self-centered person by nature. So hold onto those damaged goods, you never know when you might need them for evidence. I don’t tolerate it anymore either. I honestly think that he did have sex with her or at least tried and he feels that if I do find out that he knows what will happen to our marriage and he’s scared to death, so he’s defensive and sure doesn’t want to talk about it.

        Your right about him always trying to blame me for the things he’s guilty of, he sure can’t admit that he’s wrong. He never wants to look inside of himself and see what kind of person he’s been and how he’s acting now. After a couple drinking spells during this past Christmas, where my 91 yr. Dad spent with us, he really drank to much. He hasn’t drank since Christmas Day, as he finally realizes that he can’t control it, thank God.

        As you know our’s happened 25 yrs. ago, but I never faced it and I did forgive and decide to love him again. It’s just been the past few yrs. that it has all come back as he wasn’t loving me but every 3 months or so, drinking more, so I suspected an A, but it turned out to be hormones and the stock market crash. Then I took stock of my 50 yrs. with him, took off those rose colored glass’s and truly saw the man I married and didn’t like what I saw.

        He’s agreed to the therapist, so that’s a start. It took me 5 yrs. of therapy and then we had to go back to two other ones during the past 20 yrs. One got so mad, he told him not to come back.

        Thanks for sharing your story with me. I’m not sure what your D-date is, so I don’t know how long it’s been but it seems like you’ve got it together.

        Take care of yourself also,

        Blessings, Linda T.

        • Linda T.

          Melissa,
          As I was re-reading some of the posts on here, yours being one I read a lot. Yes, I can do a lot of things to feel better about myself, if I can get my butt out the door as I just feel so depressed and don’t really care anymore. My main question is, “How do you fall back in love with a husband that hasn’t been there for you for about 35 yrs. of your marriage? Even before the marriage, I did all the giving and sacrificing for the whole family. He was given the best suits to look good for his job. The children I had to rely on sales and we were on a budget. The same thing with food, if he wanted steak on Saturday night, he would have it, but the kids would have hamburger as he said we couldn’t afford steak for everyone. That’s when I should have put my foot down and refuse to go along with it. I was brought up that if the man earned the living, then extra consideration should be given to the man of the house. I look back on it now and realize how wrong it was. If he had been a good man and Father, he wouldn’t have sat there and ate steak in front of his children and been able to enjoy it. If we went through McDonald’s which wasn’t very often, they were not allowed to have an apple pie, as it wasn’t necessary. So they would have to pay for it. I was held to such a fixed grocery budget, but yet he ate his lunch at the office. Their is just so many of these things that showed what a selfish person he was and if he wanted it, he got it. Believe me we argued about these things all the times. But it did no good, he just never got it. The drinking was always, 2 or 3 mixed drinks a night, way more during parties or conferences.

          As I’m so way off the subject, but I guess it does show how he could have an Emotional affair, if she came on to him and I do definitely believe that as he was never a flirt, he enjoyed it and felt that he probably deserved it. After all, he worked hard and was never denied anything he wanted.

          So, how do you fall back in love with a man that I now see all his faults so clearly and am angry at him for being the way he is and how our children suffered due to his selfishness. He doesn’t see it or admit it and that frustrates me so bad. How can you even have respect for a man that acts this way? I don’t know how I stayed all those years, except that I did love him and I came from a very poor family, started our marriage with $90 and had worked just as hard as he did on his job and me saving money at home so that we would have a good life. I didn’t have a degree, had only worked 18 months of our marriage and then stayed home and raised our 3 children. I kept a clean house, fixed great meals, sewed, saved money, kept myself fit and looked nice at all times. I was well respected and liked by his pier’s and boss’s and all our friends. So, I did my part in getting where we were, as I was the perfect boss’s wife and a good wife and Mother.

          So, now I’m at a point where I don’t feel anything and have so much anger due to his refusing to help me understand why the affair occurred and why he didn’t think or love me enough not to have one. If I leave, I am leaving everything we worked for, yes it can be split in half and it will be. But if he truly loved me, he would do everything possible to make this marriage work. He thinks that because he’s given up drinking for over a yr., thank God and is trying to be less controlling, but the last part is starting to not go as well again.

          Anyway, I think this is totally off the subject, but you had given me such good advice before, but I hadn’t asked you this question about love before and was curious as to what you would tell me.

          Thanks for listening and for your help,

          Linda T.

          • melissa

            Dear Linda T

            I’ve not been on this site much recently, have been away a lot. However, your note came into my inbox and I wanted to reply.

            I don’t know how you can fall in love with a man again when you’ve got your eyes open to his faults but maybe this is what love is: being able to love and understand the faults, go into love with your eyes wide open. I was a great believer in perfection before my H’s EA – he was perfect, I was perfect, our marriage was perfect… all of that was a fantasy. Now, the fantasy is gone and I sometimes yearn for it but I can see him for what he is – a man, imperfect, struggling, sometimes great, sometimes awful. Just like me. Except that I would never have made the choices that he made.

            Your situation is very different from mine. I don’t have children for a start but I know how they important they are to you. I don’t know how you can broach the subject with him that things have improved but seem to be falling back down into routine and lack of respect but you probably need to have that conversation and remind him that you both need to work at your marriage to make it as good as it can be.

            I’ll have another think and get back in touch if I can think of another way.

    • Izzysmom

      Is there a chance for the affair to end when the spouse has already moved out? This is a long distance EA, but they have managed to spend some weekends together.

      I made the mistakes early on about being needy, clingy, etc. and I believe it pushed her to her more. He has said he believes he needs to end it with her but , “doesn’t want to hurt her”. Yet, by staying with her, it is “hurting me”. He says he’s very confused.

      I don’t know what else to do besides continue to work on me.

      Do I have any hope of him ever ending it with her? She is very powerful. When he was with me last night, she called 10+ times and he was so worried that “she’s going to be mad a me”. I know when he left he was going to call her right away. And now he is starting to lie to her because he didn’t tell her he was with me.

      I was very calm about the situation. I didn’t want to seem like the crazy one…

      • Doug

        Izzysmom, Sure there is always the chance, but I imagine it becomes somewhat more difficult or at least more drawn out. We have a mentor client who moved out and in with the AP but soon ended the affair and returned to his wife. I do think that reconciliation and recovery is much easier if the spouse remains in the house

    • Izzysmom

      He told me this morning that he needs to move back in with us. He keeps telling me he’s so confused. This OW is only part of his problem. He’s having major stress at work and doesn’t know what he wants to do with his life. I believe he’s having a MLC.

      He is supposed to see her this weekend. He wants to try to “fix” what went wrong in their friendship. He “never wanted things to go the way they did”. She has such a power over him. He doesn’t understand how things got to where they did. I believe (hope) he’s slowly coming out of the fog, but he doesn’t know how to end it. He has said though that he believes he won’t be able to be friends with her and he is very upset by that. He’s never used the “love” words for her, but she has to him.

      He is desperate to talk to someone and I am trying to find a counselor that will see us/him ASAP. The stress of all of this is starting to take a major toll on his health. I am very worried about him.

      • Doug

        Izzysmom, That’s good to hear that he feels he needs too move back in. Your patience and sympathetic stance is commendable. You may want to consider being involved in his attempts to “fix” things with her. Everything I’ve read would indicate that there should not be any personal meetings to tell each other their last goodbyes. Have him write a letter instead. You can help him write it. There is no way he can be friends with her and he needs to make a clean and permanent break.

    • Devastated

      My husband of over 20 years had an EA with a woman he met on a European cycling trip. I was not on the trip. She is 20 years younger. I discovered volumes of emails on his phone and confronted him. Total denial that this is anything but a friendship. It’s been 8 weeks now and he promised, swore and vowed to NEVER have contact with her again. Fast forward to now, 8 weeks since his trip, I asked him last night if he’s been in touch with her. I was absolutely floored when he said he sent her a card with an SD card in it with all of his pics and videos from the trip. The trust was never regained fully but it was just starting to come back. Now I’m stunned and angry. Never again will I believe him. His word is not good. He was extremely defensive (again) and said that he simply needed to close the chapter on the relationship and that she had wanted copies of the photos and videos he took. WTH? There were many other cyclists on the tour she could have asked for photos, and why wasn’t she taking her own? Devastated and needing to crawl in a cave.

    • newoi11

      Hello everyone,

      I think none of you will look at it at the OW point of view..
      I am a Sr. Architect, single but involved in somehow what might be an emotional affair.. I just wish to share that Yes I am now at a stage where I have to decide if I should continue with my Emotinal Affair.. We were the closest and very open with each other.. The sincery and the unconditional concerns and attachment that we have made both of us happy and somehow complete in our lives.. We never talked about his family issues (wife), although we talked about his pareants issues at times.. We were more of supportive with each other and was just here to confide.. Emotional attachment is very rare and its really something strong to be ignored.. I am not trying to make him leave his wife.. And it saddend me when he is neglected.. At the back of my mind I love him more than what his wife give.. But I am not. Doing anything to really show it.. “Just the emotional side that we are here for each other no matter what.. Pure and sincere intentions of just wanting the man you love to be happy takes on so many different forms.. We’ve been at this relationship for a year now.. Almost tried to stop for a month but we both can’t.. He wishes me well and also wants me to have a perfect man.. And I’m open for that, but he will still hold that special spot.. Since we’ve been like the closest friends.. I don’t see anything wrong with just the sincerity of friendship that we have.. We know we can’t be together.. But we also know we can’t be out of each others lives..

      • Linda T.

        newoi11,
        I do hope you read my comment to your post on here. I meant to add one more thing to it. When a BS has put 110% into a marriage and loved her husband with everything she has in her, like myself, she doesn’t deserve to have OW come in, who is new to a man who might be going through a midlife crisis, wasn’t looking for an affair, but enjoyed this new attention and fell for it. I get so upset when I read that the BS isn’t giving enough attention to her spouse, when most of us are giving more than the cheating spouse is. After the affair that my CH had, I looked back on our 25 yr, marriage and realized that I was doing most of the giving and he was doing the taking. So, he got involved because some woman flirted with him at a conference bar, after he had been drinking and let his defense’s down. Not that it’s an excuse, but if she hadn’t started flirting with him, as he sure wasn’t a flirt with OW, this would have never happened. She didn’t supposedly have a happy marriage, but who knows? When I was taken to their home, before i knew about the affair, her husband sure didn’t look like he was an unhappy man. She wanted to move up the ladder, have fun with someone who could give her life some fun, like dancing, drinking and crying on his shoulder about her problems and my CH came to her rescue and thought he was the gentleman in helping her, while I’m at home cleaning his house, cooking the meals that he came home late for and satisfying and enjoying it, his sexual needs also. Do you realize after the BS finds out about an affair, what a fool she or he feels like? Used, taken advantage of, not good enough for her spouse and totally baffled about what went wrong to the wonderful marriage she thought she had, with the man who had only slept or shared things with her. That is gone now, thanks to the OW, as things can never be the same, because the special relationship they only shared together has a third person in it and that memory never seems to go away. I do hope that you will think of some of these things if you feel like this friendship is so important that you feel you aren’t doing anything wrong?
        LindaT

    • Broken2

      I certainly can look at the OW point of view but only when he or she has come to the point where they know what they are doing is wrong. You aren’t even close to that point. So in order to not say all of the awful things you deserve me to say to you…I will decline.He has a spouse and its not you…you have no right to be in ANY kind of relationship with him …ever.

    • Paula

      And, newoi11, emotional (or sexual) cheaters always make their spouses sound like they are awful people, even if they are not, to the other person, this is how they justify their actions, I can’t imagine how an adult person cannot see thorugh their selfishness to see that. Yes, no one has a perfect relationship, but have they told their spouse what makes them happy and what makes them unhappy about the relationship, or have they just found a sympathetic ear to whom they can make up awful stories to? Cheaters always convince themselves “they deserve to be happy” having this dalliance/attraction (or however far it goes) on the side, because they’re “so unhappy” without doing the simple thing, and talking to their spouse, or in my case, going to counselling with them. When I booked some (I did not know what was going on, but I knew something wasn’t right with our once lovely relationship, so asked him to come with me, and get to the bottom of it) he refused, told me we were fine (ie he didn’t want to work on us, he just wanted “us” to be terrible, so he could continue his affair! I know this will sound tough, but grow up! Tell him if his wife is so terrible, he needs to sort that out, and if it is over, then you can be his. Not until then.

    • Linda T.

      I have to agree with Broken2, I would have to be very careful what I would say to you. My husband supposedly had an emotional affair and started out just like you did. It lasted 3 yrs. and he ended up in bed with her, supposedly “No Sex” as he didn’t want to go that far? They went off on 2 weekends or 3 during that 3 yr. period and the thought of them in the same bed together, even if their was no sex makes me sick to my stomach. After 25 yrs. of marriage, which I thought was a wonderful and loving one and I sure fulfilled all his needs, emotionally and physically, this flirting woman came on to him and he enjoyed it and that’s how our life got destroyed. This harmless sharing that you are talking about leads to other things and even if it didn’t, the things that you are sharing with this other person and the time you are giving them, should be reserved for your spouse.

      Their can never be another woman’s point of view. If she needs emotional support and isn’t getting it from her husband, then let him know. If he doesn’t want to listen and she’s that unhappy not getting her needs met, then have the common decency to get out of the marriage before you destroy another person’s life, not to mention if their are children involved, like their was in ours and the other woman’s. They ended up divorcing, messing up 2 little girls lives, along with the OW spouse and me. It totally destroyed my health in the beginning and my emotional well being, where as I had been totally healthy and happy before I found out. It’s been 25 yrs. now and all of a sudden I am faced with PTSD as I couldn’t deal with what happened all those years ago.

      So, you can see what can happen by just being a friend to someone, not letting the spouse know what is going on within your mind. That’s still betrayal with someone outside your marriage. Nothing will change until you can see that! All your going to do is destroy a lot of lives, including your own. But in my mind, if you continue on this journey I won’t feel sorry for you if you get hurt, as it will be deserved.

      LindaT

    • KelBelly

      Newoi11, I really wish some of the cheating spouses would reply to your post or that you would read some of our stories here. I believe you are a smart woman and that you are here because part of you knows that what you are doing is dead wrong.

      My H’s OW was ready to leave her Husband for mine after just 4 weeks because he had her so convinced that she was his everything and I was nothing but a selfish monster. If you read here, you will see time and time again that us BS are awful and don’t understand them at all but then on the other hand who was chosen when they got caught? Very rarely is it the OW or OM.

      You have no right to fill any need for a married man. I wonder what makes you think that you are any better than his wife and have you stopped to think that if he is doing this to her what would stop him from growing tired of you down the road. Very few of these kinds of relationships have a happy ending so get out while you can and before you really hurt anyone.

    • newoi11

      We haven’t spend any time together personally.. We are only sharing our thoughts thought emails, chats, phonecalls and sms.. We both know that we should not meet because he knows he will never stop wanting to be with me when that happens.. He was already thinking about leaving his wife before we met.. Luckily his kids got in to him.. And I even told him that he should really try to work things out for him.. I was only becoming a friend.. Although we have a very strong connection, it’s never right to break up a family.. But sometimes it makes me wonder, 13yrs or being with her should be enough to “fully” love the person.. Wives are lucky to have that.. I’m giving him credit for staying with his family, but I pitty him on the part that that’s how his will just be.. We just wishing for eachothers happiness, because we both value each other.. This does not mean that we have to be together.. Our future is just our dream, not part of the reality we have.. We promised to be part of each others lives even in small measurements.. This is until we’re still here on earth..

    • Surviving

      Newoi11
      Okay you care for the person you think you know. You sound just like the OW in my husbands EA.
      So really what is it you want out of a relationship? Honesty? Trust? Love? Compassion? A future? He had all these with his wife and right now he has really very little with you. If his wife isn’t aware of his relationship with you then there’s no honesty. Trust ? You are only hearing his side of his perceived problems at this time how can you trust a liar? They are very good at their lies.
      Right now you are playing with fire and your broken heart
      How do I know? Because he knows you also can’t be trusted how could you? You are with him, a married man, and he knows he can trust his wife who not only didn’t leave him but as devastated as she will be will do the hard work to repair their marriage.
      This site is full of betrayed spouses whose husbands choose them their are a few who didn’t and most did not end up with the other woman.
      So if you cannot end this relationship because its wrong to be with a married man then you need to seriously question why you are settling for a relationship with a guy who hasn’t and probably won’t be honest with his wife.

    • Surviving

      Newoi11,
      Everything you are hearing maybe what my H also told the OW. What he didn’t tell her was the truth, that he was not only sleeping with me he was sexually active with me too. I remember one night when his phone rang while we were intimate it was around 1am I asked him whose that maybe it’s an emergency without even looking at his phone he said oh it’s someone from china (a business call). Of course now I know it was her. He forgot to turn his ringer off, so even then while in the EA when it came time to choose, he choose me. so ask yourself do you want a guy who won’t be there for you at any time of day or night if you need him? Or are you the one who is there for him anytime if the day or night?
      What you have with him is not a friendship it’s an inappropriate relationship based on lies.
      When your in bed alone at night know this he is “with” his wife, whatever problems he has he should discuss them with her, not you, your in no position to play ” counselor” .
      And when my husband ended this EA she to 2 years after the fact still had feelings for him and tried her best to weasel her way to communicate with him. How are you going to feel when one day he just stops calling?

    • newoi11

      In a very literal and labeling. World, its easy for anyone to jusdge someone.. We are open with each other and there is no need for us to lie about anything since we are not expecting anything from one another.. A friend can always wish for a friends happiness.. What I love about what we have is the “friendship” and openess.. And we respect our boundaries.. We are wishing each other to be happy with others since its impossible for us to be together.. His wife is lucky coz his husband is only seeking friendship to make himself better and look at his married life in a different way.. To give credit to him, he never mentioned that his wife is this and that.. Sharing something like for example at this site, we are sharing and confiding our deepest thoughts, are you all going to say that this is cheating if you are not backing it up with bad motives??

      • KelBelly

        Why are you here on a cheating site if you do not believe what you are doing with this man is wrong? You have never even met this man and you believe he is telling.you the truth? There are many CS here men and woman that have told the same things to the OW or OM and are now struggling to make it right with their spouses. The one thing they all have in common is that they all lied and this married man you are talking to is no different!

    • Disappointed

      Newoi11- You are trying to justify the unjustifiable. You are deluding yourself, but somewhere inside you realize it and that is why you are here commenting. Our world today is one in which we all think everything is gray and that the definition of right and wrong is “it depends.” This is why everything is such a mess. Your married man should be sharing things with his wife NOT you. If you really want the best for him, let him go and allow him to concentrate on his marriage. Allow yourself to find someone who is available. This fantasy life will destroy reality for both of you. Put on your big girl pants and stop the affair now. It is not justifiable or understandable, it is selfish, delusional fantasy.

    • Linda T.

      Newoi11, I totally agree with Disappointed. You are trying to justify what your doing and putting it in the word “friendship.” That’s what he has a wife for, first she’s his friend, lover and then, most of all his wife! He should be sharing his problems with her, not you. You shouldn’t be talking to him at all, he’s not married to you. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong! Could you go to his wife and tell him that you are helping him solve his problems? What would she say, that she’s happy to have you there to have someone to talk to? She would be so hurt, you have no idea! She would ask you, “Why is he talking to you, I’m his wife, not you?” You are going to hurt someone, including yourself. Do you want to be responsible for that pain you are going to cause innocent people, not to mention your self. Maybe you need to ask yourself, “Why don’t I get a friendship with an un-married man?”
      LindaT

    • newoi11

      Am I really ruining him and his relationship? Or am I making him be still with it.. He already thought about leaving her but I advised not to.. I have lots of male friends but never to the deepest level that we have.. He asked me to stay as his friend coz he will think more of escaping his family if I’m not there.. Sometimes I’m wondering how can a wife neglect her husband.. Above all others he will not look elsewhere if she’s there unconditionally and just loving his partner..

      • debbie

        ” Above all others he will not look elsewhere if she’s there unconditionally and just loving his partner..”

        ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?!?

        Where did you get that tidbit?

        A whole website here and many more across the web, says that is ridiculous justifying drivel from an OW.

    • newoi11

      I was trying to see if what we have is already what the people would call it Emotional Affair.. This is the 1st time I’ve had deep friendship with a married man.. And yes I’m curious to see what the people outside us thinks.. If others would also have a deep understanding, and sincere thoughts about this kind of stuff..

      • debbie

        “This is the 1st time I’ve had deep friendship with a married man.. ”

        Deep friendships with married people who you are not married to, are Affairs.

        You are sure he isn’t lying to you. How do you know that? What do you KNOW to be true about his life? You only know what he has said.

        A true friend would not encourage a secret relationship that has the possibility of destroying said friend’s life and the life of those he has sworn to protect. If you really cared about HIM, you will send him on his way.

        Save yourself from a world of hurt. I won’t even mention the Karma that will follow you across lifetimes.
        The universe supports honesty, integrity, joy and love. You will not find those those things as a hidden friend.

        Shirley Glass wrote “Not Just Friends”. A whole book titled for your benefit. A whole book that says what you are saying is not possible. No deep friendships with someone else’s Spouse.

    • KelBelly

      You know, if you are looking for someone to say you are not doing anything wrong, then you are on the wrong site. Even after all this time it still amazes me how gullable some woman can be. I think I better quit while I am ahead.

    • Surviving

      Newoi11
      How did you “meet” this guy?
      Does his wife know?

      There’s an old saying if it sounds too good to be true it prob is.
      With so many crazies out there you have no idea if he could be a really psycho crazy person and do harm to you.

    • newoi11

      We were coordinating for one international project, I am the architect and he’s the structural engr.. All just started with that, then we both had the same insights with things while we were having a teleconference.. From there even our project was finished he would still say how am I doing and all.. Then it went on as a regular thing for us.. It was just accidental and honest conversations.. I always see the good side with people and I really don’t want to judge him and his relationship.. Its just the two of them who really knows what’s going on between them.. The only thing that’s obvious was that if he’s happy, he should not be needing me at all.. Friendship with him should be enough for us..

      • Linda T.

        newoi11,
        As I am stewing from a rather bad argument with my so called cheating husband, it just reminded me of why I get so upset when I read your post.

        He too was just at a conference, business and with a group and flirting woman came on to him and flattered his ego! It didn’t need flattering, but he sure enjoyed it. Men, rather their marriage is happy and our’s was, or not, can’t resist it. So, as I’ve said to many times and so has Broken2, why can’t you see what you are doing?

        It’s an AFFAIR, no matter how you want to spin it. How can you even look in the mirror when you are in the middle of breaking up a marriage and hurting so many people. How would you feel once she finds out and she will find out, if she tries to kill herself? It can happen, as I almost took my life twice, the pain was that great. The only thing that stopped me was my children and grandson’s, not my cheating husband. Is that worth it to you? It took 5 yrs. of therapy to even get through a 3 yr. supposedly EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. I call it that, because I still feel they had sex if he slept in the same bed with her. He hadn’t planned on going off on those weekends, but it started off like yours, conversations, him listening to her problems, she made him feel extra special as she was a flirt, unlike me, who sincerely loved him and he knew it. Then they wanted more private time, drinks in the bars, then lunch’s, then finally the weekends so they could be totally alone and not worry about someone seeing them together. You will get to the same point, because he told me, he never intended it to go that far but by then he was to involved and loved her in whatever way he wants to describe it. Of course, he said that he still loved me, but I have a hard time accepting that, or he would have put me first.

        Fast forward 25 yrs. later, things are now all coming back to me that I couldn’t bring myself to think of then and now we are on the verge of divorce. Everything we worked for, starting from scratch, 7 grandchildren who are going to be devastated when it happens, the memories of those years before the affair and during the affair, I can’t even think about, let along look at the pictures. So much has been taken away from a marriage that had so much love, but a weak man who loved the extra flattery of a flirt and needy person like yourself.

        My life has been totally turned around by a person like you and has never been the same and you think that you aren’t going to cause any trouble listening to YOUR FRIEND? It makes me sick to even think about what you are saying and believing. Have you heard the expression, “What goes around comes around?” That is what is going to happen to you. You can’t go around hurting others, as it’s going to come back and bite you in the butt! WAKE UP, you are destroying lives and rationalize that you aren’t?????

        I can’t think of enough things to say to you, as I am so angry with my H right now, as he still doesn’t get what he does sometimes is wrong. He rationalizes it just like you do.
        Linda T

    • Broken2

      newoi11…..I have been reading the comments and your responses and justifications to them and felt (not sure why) that I needed to say something even though you wont hear it and continue the excuses. You asked if this was an affair and clearly you have crossed the line into an emotional affair because your relationship is a secret to the mans wife. He is talking to you about his life when he should be talking only to his wife. He is violating the trust she has in him and when she finds out she will be devastated. You are wrong to say and think that people have affairs only when they are unhappy. Many affairs …like yours….happen with coworkers because you happened to be there and your little friendship builds his little ego and you say all the wonderful things men like to hear. However your not home living everyday life with him….washing his dirty underwear and putting up with everyday habits we all have that aren’t so wonderful. My husband had an affair with someone just like you….a coworker. whave been married 32 years and we were not unhappy but as he put more and more of himself emotionally into this affair we grew further and further apart and what you think is just an innocent friendship could have torn an entire family apart. $ children and a lifetime of memories gone forever. Are you so ignorant as to think he is teeling you the truth. He can tell you anything he wants and then goes home to his wife and family. Cheaters by their very nature are liers so I can say 100% that he is lying to you. He is lying to his wife. You said is he is happy he wouldnt be needing you at all. Thats absolutely wrong. You are contributing to the fall of a marriage and destruction of another human being because when his wife finds out (and she will) her life will be ruined. The right thing for you to do is to tell him your relationship is business only and you will talk again when the next project comes up otherwise goodbye. He is married MARRIED…you have no right to be there,,,,do the right and honorable thing and walk away.

    • Broken2

      In my last comment there is $ sign before children…it should read 4 children not$

    • RIck

      Just like Broken2,
      I have been reading the comments and back and forth’s with newoi11. I’m not sure if she is at the point of really listening or understanding. As with most people it will be after the train wreck that the light will go on. Sad but true. Ask this of yourself. could you look at yourself in the mirror once his wife finds out. When the pain of betrayal hits her and it affects her’s and the kids lives.
      Never have I seen a spouse who developed a connection with another outside the marriage, speak the truth about their spouse. Maybe he is basically a child. Just because he’s a professional doesn’t mean that he’s got his act together. I have been the victim of losing a partner to an emotional affair. It is the obligation of your friend to tell his wife if he’s that unhappy and help repair their marriage. Not to disclose this to you. It’s unfair to his wife whom he promised to love for better or worse. What would you expect of your husband someday if you should marry. Would you approve of this arraignment if he was telling another woman how unhappy he was with you.
      Having the shoe on the other foot is an eye opener. I have no doubt that your friendship wasn’t intended to start this way and that he shares most of the blame. He has very little honor for his promises but while your not the bank robber you are driving the getaway car. You know what, drop him, find another man, a single man and build a relationship with him. Without the chains of his involvement with his wife. Live better then you are, You deserve it don’t you. The old saying, “What goes around, comes around.” while old and sometimes used as revenge does happen. Think hard and be the adult, He’s not. Years from now you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know you did it right!

      • Linda T.

        Rick,
        I’m sorry you were a victim and I hope that your life if better now, I wish I could say that mine is.

        Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I like what you wrote and how you put it. It was right on and I hope she thinks hard about what your wrote.

        Linda T.

        • RIck

          Thanks Linda T. These postings popped up on my email and out of curiosity read a few. A lot of anger. Thought that while she is in the wrong the responsibility lies with the guy. Rarely do they see how much of a pain they are to live with.
          I am doing fine and thank you for asking. Early on I posed the same questions to God and thought long and hard on my failings which came to mind like they happened just yesterday. Blamed myself. It still hurts but if you relax you will find much to be thankful for.
          Saw a counselor and like the sites creator Linda, I saw and finally accepted many of my past issues/baggage that at times ruled and hurt my relationship. With pain can come great growth. It then became ease to just leave that baggage behind. Now it’s time to see what lies ahead.
          You know when I hear about finding yourself, I always thought it was reinventing oneself but it’s not. It’s pulling off those layers of garbage that life, our past, others, and even our own self’s that covered up our true self. Now don’t get me wrong. There are moments that I miss her and the hurt is painful but it’s time to move on.
          I hope Linda T. that you grow yourself and not tie your happiness to another. I complement you on sticking with marriage. You have a brave heart.

          • Linda T.

            Rick,
            It’s been 25 yrs. and I did forgive after 5 yrs. of counseling and moved on for the next 20. He wasn’t as remorseful as he should have been from the very beginning and I don’t feel that I have ever been told the truth in regards to the sexual part. I’ve got to know that answer! He’s not going to admit it to me, as he knows the marriage would be over. That cross’s the line for me, the other was hard enough to deal with when you both have only been with each other. My past 25 yrs. haven’t been the best and it’s all coming back to me and I want the answer’s that he didn’t answer 25 yrs. ago. I will never understand how he could do what he did and live a lie for 3 yrs. and look me in the face. Even being in bed with her, wether they had sex or not is very painful for me. It’s something I could never do and I sincerely mean that. I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I did. My children are blaming me for bringing it all back up and that’s not fair. I need those pieces to fill in the puzzle to make sense of it and his memory can’t be that bad.

            I couldn’t have loved or been a better wife to him, but now looking back on it, he was a selfish person who took and didn’t give. My love was so deep, I didn’t see it. I so wish that I had known all the truth 25 yrs. ago, instead of his lies for the first year as I would have divorced him. I really wish that I had, as I didn’t deserve what happened nor the life I had for the next 25. He always took me for granted, even though I stuck up for myself after the affair. I still didn’t feel cherished like I should have and only in the past yr. is he trying to make up for it. I think that is because he knows our marriage is on the line. Sorry this is so long, it’s just been a bad week. Not sure where this will end up as he never see’s what he does is wrong.

            Glad you are doing better, just not sure about my future and I’m not happy now.

            LindaT

            • Brian 66

              Hey LindaT Sorry you have been feeling bad Lately. I know its hard when you get triggers that cause you to reflect and sprout old memories. I know that just the other day I got something that made me very upset. hen I tought to myself as always. I cannot change what has happened. I cannot change the past, no matter what. Regrets will tear you apart. Leave that in the past and move forward. It has helped tremendously to tell myself, anytime there is a crisis or emotional downer, that I have no control. It is G__’s will and he has control. All we can do is change ourselves and our kids if they are still young. I know from my own affair experieince, that happiness truly comes from within. Love spawns from happiness, and true love comes from our faith, selflessness, honesty, integrity, and above all our will. Hang in there. Tell yourself, it cannot be changed and be transpartent with your thoughts to you H. No one can read minds. Tell him everything, how you feel, your emotions, and this is the way it works. Do you best. 🙂

            • RIck

              Hey Linda T. Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure if I have the answer for your dilemma. I can’t imagine the pain you are going through just wondering. What got to me early on were the “Coulda-Shoulda’ves “. They can be consuming. Our minds seems so torn. From being tough to trying to save something and worrying about making the wrong move. Basically we lost self-confidence and relinquished our power and control. I can’t tell you the times where I have been accommodating and 10 minutes later, kicking myself for not sticking up for myself. I think it’s normal, when one is in the position we were.
              Maybe it’s time to decide whether the idea that he slept with that woman 25 years ago is worth it. Obviously at that time he was a very selfish man and even during the recovery of your marriage, he couldn’t ease your worries. He may be childish and felt it was easy to leave you in doubt then to be honest. But enough time has elapsed that it’s time to resolve whether this will continue to consume you.
              You decided 25 years ago to continue with the marriage. You did the right thing but you did decide and everyday since you’ve decided to continue. Take charge. Your too valuable to have this continue to worry your mind. Would finding out at this time change any thing? You are in charge of you. You showed incredible strength 25 years ago by staying with your marriage. Now it’s time to be happy for you. Finding happiness or joy isn’t about him it’s about you.
              What are you doing to make your life meaningful? How has Linda T. taken this terrible betrayal and used it to improve herself? Your kids may feel that your stuck. For them it’s been 25 years, an eternity.
              The one thing I like about this site is how Linda and Doug have attempted to create a site to learn and teach. It’s about growing and moving on in life and having that wonderful life. Not being stuck in the past and living there for years. Whether you choose to stay married or not.
              You are worth having a wonderful, adventurous life. Time to quit letting this define you. You define you. You can do it!

            • Linda T.

              Rick,
              I thank you for your kind help and I will respond later as I have dinner to do. I understand what you are saying, but their is a lot of mis-understanding of what went on during that 20 or 25 yr. period after the affair, not another one, but I put up with a lot. The past 3 or 4 yrs. due to other things, like neglect, drinking as usual, anger from him over loss of money in the stock market made him a very angry man. That’s when I started accessing my life, feeling very unloved and started looking back at what I had did to stay in this marriage and he didn’t do anything to show the remorse after the affair like he should have.

              I will fill you in on what took place during, before and after the affair that has made me so mad now and the only thing that is making me want to live are my 7 grandchildren. Not my children, as my 2 daughters are angry with me as they feel that I never forgave their Father and I did, 20 yrs. ago. I don’t talk to them about it as I feel it should be between us, but my husband looked so miserable that they then took his side. So, I thank you for your kindness and insight and their are only a few other things that you should know that would help you understand why I stayed and haven’t left yet. I have left him twice, but for only one week at a time and I don’t think that was enough. I so wish I had made him leave at the very beginning, but the lies he told to make me think it was nothing that happened is why I didn’t kick him out like I had always joked about doing, when we heard about other people’s affairs.

              I hope your around to hear the rest, as I feel you could shed some light on helping me.

              Blessings,
              LindaT

            • RIck

              Thanks, and I understand there is more to the story. I wouldn’t presume that 25 years of life could be written down in one entry let alone 10,000 entries. Just wished to say that you deserve to be content in your life. You deserve it.

            • Linda T.

              Rick,
              As I just mentioned to my H as he asked if I was coming to bed now and I said, “I wasn’t sure, he didn’t get it?” I told him, haven’t you noticed where I sleep in the bed, clear on the other side. So, he then told me, okay, it’s makes me uptight also, so I guess you better sleep in the guest room, which is where I want to sleep if I’m upset. I told him, that things were not going to change until he took a lie detector test to prove they didn’t have sex and that he wasn’t lying as to when it ended. So, in anger, he told me to set it up then, which makes me mad. He doesn’t want to do it to settle my mind, which is what I told him. I let him know that I couldn’t move forward unless we had a conversation, without him running off, for me to understand his feelings on what he did and how he could do a lot of the things, even after the affair? He just got disgusted and walked out. This is what he always does and did in the beginning, except he lied his way through it for 8 months or more.

              I originally stayed with him in the very beginning as he told me that he had only seen her a few times for a lunch for a yr. I was so grateful that it hadn’t gone any further and I told him that the next night as we made love. I looked him squarely in his eyes, as I held his face and tears rolling down my eyes and said how thankful I was that it hadn’t gone any further than that. He could have been honest with me, if not then, the next morning, but no, he continued his lies for almost a yr. I also had Melanoma surgery, very extensive 5 weeks after finding out about the Affair. That laid me up and in pain for over 3 months and made me very weak. I wasn’t only emotionally weak, but physically also. I was the woman who swore on her life that her husband would never have an affair, he loved me to much and I loved him. I was in so much shock as I drove home with the love letters that were mailed to me and handed to me by my 2 daughters, that I don’t even remember my feet touching the gas pedal for that 3 miles and even had to drive by the house that she and her husband lived in. He sent me the love letters and my daughter recognized the writing on the outside. I had received one 3 yrs. before and he convinced me that he had fired this man’s wife and he was trying to get even with me by getting him in trouble. Little did I know that he was off on his first weekend with her as I told him about it on the phone. Anyway, I’m making this to long.

              Fast forward again, 5 yrs. of therapy, even though he didn’t want to pay for me to go. He showed up, but never learned anything. He continued to drink to much, which had always been a problem when we went out socially or conferences. He did stop one year ago at Christmas as he embarrassed himself and me in front of my 91 yr. old Dad, who was visiting for Christmas. He continued to dance with other woman, be the life of the party and ignor my requests for him to stop and come back to the room with me as I was having a bad panic attack. Those were the other things that the A caused. Panic attacks, severe depression, almost taking my life twice, etc.

              When I would ask him anything about the A he would get defensive and very angry and didn’t want to tell me anything about it. I finally called the OW, who I knew, as he had taken me to her house one Christmas, even though I told him that he shouldn’t be socializing with secretaries at his Executive position, but he was already involved with her by then. It had only been 2 months and he couldn’t stay away. For the next 5 yrs. we had so many heated fights, our daughter at 16 moved out due to the tension in our home. She got married young, had a baby, got divorced one yr. later. Married later and finally got her degree at 40, so he affected her life greatly. The other two got their college degree. These were things that he caused but won’t take responsibility for. He also knew that the OW husband knew about the A 11 months into it, as he sent me the letter warning me about it, so if he loved me so much he should have stopped then. He could have lost his job that he had worked at for over 25 yrs., etc. He did eventually get fired as he wasn’t putting enough into it. People at work knew about it also, my friends knew, but I didn’t as he was usually home. I thought he was working late due to his stressful job, but he was out having drinks with her, dancing and acting at 37 like he was in his 20’s.

              We got married at 18 (big mistake) never been with anyone else and was in love. I don’t think he know’s what that word means anymore. All he knows is the selfish kind, always thinking of himself first.

              I only found out some of the truth by finding receipts as we didn’t have computer’s back then. He would deny it, I’d find more, so I had about 4 D-days in one yr.

              They went off on 2 or 3 weekends together, the last one he said they didn’t sleep together, it was just for a Friday night. Anyway, they were in the same bed together, but he told me that he couldn’t have sex with her as it was something that would make it harder for him to do. The lie detector test that he took during the first year, showed deception in that area, but if you broke it down like the examiner did, I don’t see how he could have? Unless, he couldn’t get it to work and was embarrassed, as he failed that question also. I think he was much more involved than what he is telling me and I want to know the truth. I deserve it and he claims that he can’t remember 95% of it.

              If he actually tried to have sex with her or did, yes I would divorce him. I know that I have slept with him for the past 20 yrs. as I had finally come to terms with it and just couldn’t deal with anymore of it.

              The past 3 yrs. he hasn’t treated me well, my back issues have caused a lot of issues, like messing up trips, etc. These were caused by honest slip & falls. He has no patience with this and would leave me sitting in the emergency room, as he needed to eat his lunch. If we went anywhere, he had to be sure that he danced with the ladies, or if he didn’t want to stay up late and be with the group, he would go off to bed at 10:30, which drinking was responsible for that. He never cherished me after what he did to me and that was so unfair. I was an active good tennis player for over 30 yrs. and never fell, so he should have been understanding. I nursed him back to health for over 6 weeks due to one of his surgeries, but I was a burden to him, unless I was perfect.

              What brought this all to a head was 4 yrs. ago, the stock market was bad, we lost a lot of money, our daughter had to borrow a lot or her and the 3 grandchildren would have moved in with us. She then didn’t pay us the $10,000 back and he was so angry about all the money issues. He had no interest in sex or being loving towards me. We later found out that his hormones were not right, but he didn’t care enough to even talk to me about any of this or see a doctor. So after all this, I started questioning why did I stay to be treated like this at 67 yrs. of age? Did he really know what the word love mean? We were arguing constantly about money, he was drinking more and really showing his temper. I sought counseling to figure out why all this was coming back to me now, after forgiving him and deciding to love him again? During those 20 yrs. I went through a lot without any support from him, but I concentrated on my singing at the Retirement center’s, tennis, until my back got so bad from the fall’s that I couldn’t play anymore. I still miss it! I was into exercising also, to help the 6 slip & falls that I had in 10 yrs., like during ice skating, etc. He would get angry with me when it happened, never compassionate. I stopped the singing about 5 yrs. ago when my 2 granddaughter’s moved, as they sang with me for over 11 yrs. and I missed them terribly. I have to be happy to sing and I wasn’t and am not now. I know that I could be doing things for me, like exercising again as I was doing it, but then I hurt myself doing something and had to stop again.

              My daughter’s blame me entirely for this. They think I never forgave their Dad and I did. Did I treat him differently, probably a little bit. I wouldn’t ever let him control me, that was the positive thing that came from it. I couldn’t use the darling terms that I use to say to him for some reason. I stopped calling him the name I had called him all his life, Johnny and shortened it to John. I don’t know why, I just did. I was still loving and sexually, but maybe not as affectionate, I would let him make the first move sometimes. I was afraid to totally let myself be vulnerable these past few years as he wasn’t treating me with love, but the other 20, I wasn’t bad at all. Now it’s been 3 yrs. since I’ve told him I love him, I just can’t get the words out. Now, I don’t even know if I do anymore, as I feel that he has killed that love. I know it was there before and he wants me to just move on, forget the past as our life is slipping by us. Yes, that part is right, so why not fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle and tell me about those missing 3 yrs. of my life.

              Also, if you were over her, why didn’t you act like it on our 25th. Wedding anniversary? We went to the Virgin Islands and you said that you broke up with her a year before, but according to the letter I received from her ex-husband, he told me it was still going on? If that’s true, it would explain the lack of attention on that anniversary. We just celebrated our 50th. the one that we were suppose to renew our vows and we spent that day apart as I was so upset that things were so bad between us. Their was another special occasion he messed up. He was having the affair during our first daughter’s wedding and he danced with me twice. He was to busy dancing with the younger one’s. So their are 3 major occasions in our life that he is responsible for taking away from us and he doesn’t see or feel the sadness that I feel? We started out with $90 in our pockets, have no money issues, but he still complains if he feels we pay our 24 yr. old grandson’s to much for mulching our yard and their trying to make spending money for Grad school. How can he be this way? We just had a major fight over paying one of the twins for helping clean plant shelves to help Grandma, as he didn’t want me to fall. He needed to make the money and I loved being around him. They make me happy and how many 24 yr. old Law Grad students will clean and dust plant shelves to earn spending money? We also just had the other twin, during Christmas undergo Testicular Cancer surgery and we were worried sick. Thank God, it hadn’t spread so far. Why doesn’t he think of that and be grateful and not worry about what he paid his brother? We are just so darn different in our feelings about everything.

              You asked me what would I do if I found out he had sex, would it change things? Yes, I would separate from him as I would never have sex with him again and I would feel so used and humiliated that he had lied to me all these years. I can live by myself and be perfectly happy. The girls shouldn’t be blaming me for those 25 yrs. that they think I’ve made their Dad’s life miserable, I haven’t, it’s the other way around. We had some good years, especially when the grandchildren were growing up. So, that’s an unfair statement. They see me wasting my life now and that’s true. I tried to exercise and get out with my few friends, volunteer, even signed up and then things didn’t work out. I was going to sing to the shut-in’s, but when I went to do it I didn’t realize that I needed to make arrangements first. So, now I haven’t been back, as my panic attacks and depression has gotten worse. I’ve seen 5 counselors under our plan and none of them have been right for me except one and she’s not in our network. So, I will start again next week. It’s hard now for me to get out of the house, as I’ve sunk into depression again and I don’t really care. The only thing that brighten’s my day are my grandchildren, but 4 of them are away in college and two don’t live here.

              I don’t know what to do anymore. I thought sure one year ago that we would have things settled by now. I even planned on seeing the OW ex-husband who still lives here to find out why he said the A was still going on, when my H says it wasn’t. I wanted to ask him if he knew for sure if his wife and my H had sex? Someone has got to give me the answer, because he’s not going to. So where do I go from here, I can’t answer that, maybe you can?

              Sorry it’s so long, their is just so much to say about those 25 yrs. Oh yes, throw in that he was fired and the first 2 yrs. with him home were hell. He tried to run the house like he did his job and still tries to. I tell him, go for it if it makes you happy. We both want to downsize, but nothing is going to happen until we get our life straightened out, if we can. We could be in separate house’s, so why bother. He know’s all this, so why stall if that’s so important to him.

              Thanks for listening and I’m so glad that you at least have your life in order. It’s hard being 69 and having to start again after being married for 51 yrs.

              Blessings, Linda T

    • Surviving

      Rick, Broken2,Linda
      It’s just been unbelievable that here we all are telling someone to stay away from a married man. If she can’t to it for them then for herself. Does she not read about all the hurt and pain?

      • Brian 66

        Sometime reading about it, isnt enough. Unfortunatly, some may have to experence it. We have to offer choice, good ones, to help. We all know choices are hard, but write, wrong, or indifferent, we all have to make them and of course, live by them. We all start somewhere. Maybe in the back of our minds, thinking, is this wrong. It always starts very small and innocent. If we can help at the very start, this is good. Before it gets too deep and you can’t turn back.

    • Brian 66

      Hey everyone, I too have recently picked up E-mails to my Sphone. I had been reading what Newoi11 has written. along with everyone’s comments. I know it hurts when we get the triggers, in the comments written by this OW. I have been on and off this site since 2010. I am on knowbody’s side, but as we are recovering affair victims we must open our eyes. If anything, this site and the affair we all have been victim to, has tought us to be open, and above all be vidulant in our thoughts. I will help anyone that comes forth to ths site and any other site to seek ,help, suggestions, opinions of all of us. We all have to open our hearts to anyone seekng help. If we can help just one person, putting dought in their minds, make objective suggestions, and getting then to think beyon their emotions, it may save a family and above all, the children. So, we must stay open and offer as much help as possible. We all know what the outcome is, but they don’t, because they have not been through it. If we can get this one person to realize that what is being done can affect, the husband/wife, children, friends, co-workers, in-laws, …….. It is worth it. Unforunatly, it may take the wrong turn, but at least we tried.

      • Linda T.

        Brian66 and Surviving,
        You are both right in what you are saying and what all of us are trying to say. Newoi11, it doesn’t seem, gets what we are all trying to say in great detail what can happen from what she is doing. I don’t know what else can be said for her to understand the rock that she is turning over and is going to fall and hurt so many innocent people like all of us who have shared our stories here. She’s got to see the pain that we all have sulfured, how lives have been changed and destroyed. I think of all the time that we have spent explaining what she is doing and the consequences of being a “friend” to this man! It’s not to be mean, at least not from me and I’m sure other’s aren’t saying it with mean intent either. Do some of us get a little angry, of course we do. It just sets off so many triggers in all of us and if we can impart some knowledge to Newol11 so that she will stop this destructive road that she’s on and that it will stop just one person from the pain that we have all endured it will be worth the time we’ve put into it! I pray that is the case. I know that it’s hard for all of us to go over these painful memories again, it sure was for me as mine is so fresh again. It doesn’t take much for the word affair to trigger painful memories. It’s all around us anyway, T.V. papers, politicians, etc. We hear so much more of it now than I did 25 yrs. ago and I think that isn’t good for me.

        I pray that we got through to her.

        Linda T.

    • newoi11

      I feel sad hearing all the implications with your relationships.. Believe me that nothing was really planned.. I do think that sleeping with someone really crosses the line.. And I think I have to convince myself some more if clean intentions with another is really doing him harm than good..
      I think toxic relationships are really unhealthy for everyone.. Can’t anyone be given the chance to have a happy fulfilled life.. If both parties were unhappy, I don’t think it would be healthy to stay in the relationship.. Everyone should be reponsible with his/her own happiness.. With what I have with him, we are not committed to one another.. We are not trying to be together.. I don’t think he’s being rude with his wife, I cannot imagine that with him.. I trust that He’s a good man, just trying to find a good friend, who can speak the same language as him.. We are both wishing each others happiness to the separate lives that we both have..

      • Linda T.

        newoi11,

        Do you honestly think that when my cheating husband started this friendship with the OW that he thought he would end up in bed with her? Do you realize how that makes me feel? I don’t to this day, 25 yrs. later really know what happened and I should. People who are doing things that are wrong, like yourself and I know you don’t want to hear that, aren’t going to share what they have done with their spouse. His just started with drinks at a conference, then her suggesting lunch when they got back from the conference, maybe. So, he made that phone call, even though he was married to have lunch with her. He rationalized that it wasn’t that wrong, after all they were only having lunch together. But in order to do that, he made sure that the lunch was later in the day, so that they might not be seen together by the other employee’s at a close restaurant. If he had told me, “Hey, I’m taking this woman to lunch today that works in our office, do you think that I would have thought it wasn’t out of the ordinary?” Would I have approved of what he was doing? Do you see that he had to go to great length’s to cover up what he was doing? It was wrong, that’s the reason. If he needed a business lunch, their would have been more people or he would have walked in that office, people would have seen them and they would have realized that the lunch was for business. But in all reality, whatever needed to be discussed in business could have been done right in the office with everyone around.

        One thing leads to another, that is what everyone is trying to tell you. You came on this site, not sure how you found it, to see if you are in an EA and everyone on here is telling you that you are, but you don’t see it? I don’t know what else needs to be said for you to get that their can not be a friendship with a married man, where he is sharing his thoughts with you that should be only shared with his wife. Sure, you can have friendships with married men, but they have to be open and the wife should be right their with you and her husband. Like if 6 people were going to lunch, men and women, all laughing and talking about problems. That is the only way that a friendship should be between men and women. Or talking about business in an office in front of everyone. Nothing should be done in a secret way, if it is, it’s wrong. You are taking away time with him, discussing his un-happiness, that he should be talking about with his wife, not you. Your the outsider, she’s married to him and everything he shares with you is a betrayal to his wife. Would he tell his wife that he is sharing these things with you? If you answer NO to this question, then their is your answer, that you could be part and already are right now, in possibly destroying what chance they have of having a healthy marriage. If it truly is un-healthy? People who sneak around are basically liars, why do you think you can trust him to tell you the truth? He’s already a liar by what he is doing with you that his wife doesn’t know about. Just because you say your not together isn’t totally true. You are together, because you are communicating with him and he is telling you things that he should only be sharing with his wife. If their marriage is truly in trouble, they should be working it out, without you being in the picture. You’ve read all the things that I’ve been through, how it has destroyed the happiness I once had and am still fighting to try and find again. Yes, we are both un-happy, but it’s hard to give up 51 yrs. together so you keep trying till you know their is no hope left. Don’t let this friendship continue, stop it now, before you are the OW that has destroyed a life, just life mine and everyone else on here that have been affected by a friendship that started.

        LindaT.

      • suziesuffers

        HAVE HIM FIND A MAN FRIEND!!! If he’s having problems with his wife………have him see a therapist. You are only going to distract him from healing the issue within HIM and working with his wife if he can LEAN on you to discuss all the intimate issues he’s feeling about his marriage…..If he were talking to his wife about these issues saying he’s not sure he wants to stay in the marriage….I bet that would let her know the enormity of the problem and address it….If they don’t make it …WITH OUT YOU IN THE WINGS!!….then it will happen without your guidance and support and INTERFERENCE……stay out of his life!!!! Do the right thing and defer him to another man, pastor or counselor if you are REALLY a friend a want the best for him and his marriage…………LET THEM WORK IT OUT!!! If you can’t walk away..YOU ARE ALREADY HOOKED AND PARTICIPATING IN AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR!!!! AND YOU ARE THE OTHER WOMAN THEN……..iF YOU ARE A TRUE FRIEND……A FRIEND WOULD WANT THE BEST FOR THE PERSON WHICH IS NEVER CONSOLING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN ABOUT THEIR MARITAL PROBLEMS AND WIFE……………NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!

        • Linda T.

          Wow, that’s putting it right on the line for her! Great post!

          Linda T.

    • Melissa

      Well said, Linta T. My H’s behaviour was so similar to newowi11’s ‘friend’ …secret lunches, calls, visits to her flat, saying things about me,for example that we ‘didn’t communicate’ (how could I talk to my husband about issues he had if he never ever told me about them?), buying her gifts, suggesting a weekend away, all, no doubt, in the name of ‘friendship’.

      The reason why these things are kept secret is simply and tellingly because deep down the person KNOWS that it’s wrong, KNOWS that they have overstepped the mark.

      And I too, like you Linda T, an vouch that the pain they create once they are discovered is immense and heart shattering and the worst thing one can experience when you see your trust and marriage shattered. A friendship between a man and a woman, if both or one of them is married, can only be a true friendship if it is shared with their life partner(s).

      • Linda T.

        Melissa,
        Now mine wants to blame me going back 25 yrs. to PTSD, but who knows? He put it back into play 4 yrs. ago by how he was acting and treating me, which you already know.

        Mine at least didn’t use me as an excuse for seeing the OW, it just made him feel good to see her and she told him that her marriage wasn’t very good. So, he was the knight in shining armor! Hell, she probably was lying, but he didn’t think so at the time. I so wish I had divorced him 25 yrs. ago. We just had another conversation, if you could call it that as he still gets angry, on why he cut the grass, left on an errand the the day after the night that I found out. He says that he probably did it to not have to deal with what he did and didn’t want to face it. I asked him, “Why were you not in the house comforting me for the pain and betrayal?” He told me that he didn’t really know why. He said, “Maybe I was thinking about myself and not you.” He never even remember’s the date of when it happened and doesn’t think that he should? Am I crazy, shouldn’t he remember? Should he have been cutting the grass after stabbing me in the heart and inside he knew that he was still lying big time? These are the answers to things I want to know, along with, why no remorse if he truly loved me? He always comes back with, “I must have loved myself more.” “Or, I’m a lousy son of a b+++th.” I get so sick of hearing those terms. How could he not see how great the pain was that I went through that night, laying in the guest room bed and moaning with pain in my cramping stomach?” I don’t understand what kind of man I thought I married? Now he just wants me to forget some of the thoughtless things he has done for the past 25 yrs., not to mention some of the things during the affair and before that I put up with because I loved him. I should focus on how he has changed a little this past yr., not all those other yrs. Sure he stopped drinking this past yr. after a horrible Christmas with my Dad here to witness it. Has been better with the control issue, but that is slipping again. If he’s better, he wouldn’t have lost his temper this morning and told me to find an apartment as he wasn’t going to live this way anymore. Is that a man that loves his wife and wants to help her find some peace? We definitely need a therapist if we are going to make it through this at all. I don’t think he really know’s what the word love means? I think he just always thinks of what I am putting him through and not how it’s affecting me. That’s the same selfishness again, which he claims to not have anymore. I am so tired and just don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t even find the strength to start looking for another psychologist. I’ve been through 5 in one yr., none of them were any good, at least we didn’t click. All I want to do is go to bed, cover up my head and not face all these questions anymore, as he doesn’t answer them. We are both miserable together and yet scared to throw away 51 yrs. The love was her 6 or 7 yrs. ago, it just started falling apart about 2 yrs. ago, due to how he was acting. I definite need some help and answers. Thanks for listening to me, it just never seems to end.

        Linda T.

    • Melissa

      Dear Linda T
      I know how difficult it all is for you, especially after all this time. For all it’s worth, this is my thinking about your situation:

      The knight in shining armour – oh, how that resonates with me, it was exactly the same. My H genuinely thought he was ‘helping’ the OW. Great excuse for secret and lies which he got caught into! And I think he really believed it!!!!

      You could have divorced your H 25 years ago but you didn’t. Can you remember why? Make a list. What has changed since then? Unfortunately, you cannot change the fact that you did not divorce but you can still do it now if you want to. Think back. Were there happy times during these 25 years? What made the happy times? Can you re-create the feeling, the situation that create happiness for you both?

      Therapists – I have found that sometimes, when it does not ‘click’ with a therapist at first, it might be a good thing. Possibly that he or she is uncovering things you do not wish to find. This said, I also believe it is important to have trust in your therapist but you don’t have to like them necessarily.I would definitely recommend that you go to a couple’s therapist, together.

      Your H’s reaction when you first discovered the EA: I can tell you that it took my H over a year, maybe even two to change. When I first discovered his EA, I was like you, howling in pain and anger, needing re-assurance and love and compassion. I got none of these. He was like your H, totally in denial, not wanting to talk, pretending it was ‘nothing’. And when I pushed it, with questions and facts, he would behave erratically and dramatically (threatening suicide, getting into his car and driving badly) rather than face the music. At that time, he was totally incapable of answering any question.

      If I asked my H now the same questions I wanted to get answers to then, I don’t think I would get a much better answer. I don’t think I would get what I want (a huge sorry, a huge ‘I was absolutely stupid, will never do it again) but what I do have instead is someone who is more in tune with me, more considerate, more loving – but not in words. So consider this: how important are the WORDS? How important are the GESTURES? How important are the SMALL changes? Can you live with that? How important is it not to get the huge ‘sorry’? Can you possibly hear that your H is saying sorry but not in a way that you can hear. It took me ages to realise that my H was trying to make amends but in a different voice to mine. I’d recommend – if you haven’t read it yet – the book about how to save your marriage without talking about it, I found it really helpful.

      This is one of the things I found: sometimes, it is better to bite your tongue and wrestle with the pain yourself, silently – I know it’s hard, the fear that my H may have another EA has not left me and will never leave me. I do trust him more but only to a certain extent, I will never trust him blindly again. T

      Try to praise the little, daily, insignificant things rather than criticise. Once a day. Twice a day. Until it becomes a habit. Say to your H ‘I like it when you do this or do that’. Ask for a hug every day, just a small one.

      However, there seems to be issues with drinking and controlling behaviour in your relationship, which I think can only be helped through professional counselling. So if your H is willing to go with you, do it, give it a shot together.

      Take care.

      • Linda T.

        Dear Melissa,

        First, how long has it been for you since the affair? Mine has been over 25 yrs. I was 40 when I was sent the love letters from the OW husband. He told her in one of the birthday cards during that 3 yrs. “No one has ever meant as much to you as me and I can’t imagine living life without you.” Plus other similar statements and I can’t get those words out of my mind sometimes. I always got birthday cards, but signed, only Love, John. Even on our 25th. Anniversary, it wasn’t a very special card and he didn’t write a real loving message in it about all our years together. She never once gave him a birthday card, but he bought her one every year. He told her he loved her and even though she started the flirting game, I feel that he pursued her more and didn’t want it to end as soon as she did. I know she felt he loved her, because she told me, “I wouldn’t have stayed in it if I didn’t think he loved me.” All of this hurts so much, I had forgotten it for so long and after his treatment these past few years, it’s all come back. I’ve given you all the reason’s before.

        I hear you about your husband and the knight in shining armour and I feel he felt the same way sometimes when she complained of her husband. He was her listener and that had to make him feel good. He didn’t talk bad about me and she confirmed that and if he did, I sure don’t know what he could have complained about? I do think that he felt that he was providing fun for her life, since her husband was a “blue collar worker” which she wasn’t to proud of. She would praise my husband for the great job he had and how well he did it. Being an executive it had to make her feel very special to know that she had caught someone powerful to go and have drinks, dancing and those weekends with. To talk to him about the same company they worked for, etc. He told her about our vacations, children and all that makes me angry. He never took me out for drinks, nor dancing, nor lunch like he did for all her birthdays. I can’t believe that he didn’t feel strange that she never gave him a birthday card and he doesn’t even remember her telling him that she loved him, but what do I know?

        The reason I didn’t divorce him 25 yrs. ago was I had major Melanoma surgery 6 weeks after finding out about the affair. I was also told that it was for only a yr. with just lunch’s. I was still devastated over this, but at least he hadn’t slept with her and it hadn’t lasted longer and I didn’t think he loved her, so I was so grateful that he had stopped it and it hadn’t went any further. I believed this at first, as I received a letter from her husband one year after the affair started warning me about the affair. He denied it of course, so when this happened I thought he had actually ended it after that year. I just found out a month ago that he received that letter during his first weekend with her. She was in the hotel room, while he was lying to me about it. I thought all these years he was at a conference when he got that letter and she attended it. He never told me the truth about this.

        If I had known at the very beginning that he had an affair for 3 yrs. 2 weekends together, an possible one more, then I would have divorced him. It took a year for me to get all this information together to find out a lot of the truth, even talking and meeting the other woman as he wouldn’t tell me nothing. By that time, I was in so much shock, in therapy, having panic attacks and depression and suicidal. Then had a total hysterectomy right after the first year, so a lot was happening in my life and I wasn’t in control. I was in therapy after the first couple of months, as he told me we couldn’t afford it, but I got so bad he couldn’t say No anymore. We also went together, but only I was really there.

        We also just had twin grandson’s born 5 months after the affair and I tried to find my happiness in them. I still loved my husband, but was in a lot of emotional pain and so much shock. I couldn’t believe he would ever do this to me and he wasn’t showing remorse, just anger. We had some violent arguments, I threw things at him. I never could sleep and was a mess. We still had one teenager at home to raise. I stayed also as we were in counseling and I was trying to save the marriage. I had never worked, didn’t know how I would do out on my own as I felt like a weakling that he had kicked to the curb. I didn’t feel strong at all and just wanted to die. My children and grandson’s were the only thing that kept me alive, so that’s why I was still there. Not due to the huge love for my husband or marriage. I focused on church also, my singing about 10 yrs. later at the Nursing and Retirement Homes and then 5 other grandchildren were born during those next 25 yrs. and they were taken up my time and attention. Going on business conferences with him kept me busy, playing competitive tennis twice a week that I had been doing for years took up my time also. He definitely wasn’t the center of my life. I stilled loved him, but I also during those first 5 yrs. went through a bad anger stage and probably would have killed him sometimes if I had a gun as I threatened him, as he did me. It was awful and he said so many awful things to me.

        He also didn’t stop his drinking, went on conferences where he still danced with other single woman (felt it was his duty) even though I asked him not to. He didn’t try and make up for the pain he caused me, nor cherish me. If I was sick or hurting with my back he didn’t know the meaning of the word, compassion. Yet, I did it for him.

        The happy times mostly had to do with the grandchildren and our children with family events. I tried to show him what he had at home at different points. Some vacations we had a good time, but their were problems then also as everything had to be perfect and he would get mad if I didn’t do as he wanted. I wanted to sing in not only the choir, but with a friend that had asked me to come and sing with him at the nursing homes and he called me for 3 yrs. and I didn’t do it as my husband said, I was gone all day Sunday for choir, then I would be gone another night during the week. How stupid that I let him control me. I finally didn’t listen and went and sang and that was something else that was a dream that I had wanted to do all my life.

        Yes, some of the feelings I can remember were fun, but when I think back on them during that 25 yrs. I realize, he wasn’t really focused on making me feel special or important. No compliments when I sang, if I beat him at a tennis tournament he would get angry. He never acted proud of me, like I did with him and that was even after the affair. I should have been the center of his attention after what I had went through, but I wasn’t. He always wanted to be and now I realize that. His job, he was admired and praised. He loved being the center of attention. I guess I tried to focus on the decent times and not focus on the bad ones. I just wanted peace in my life as I was still suffering from panic attacks. I got on with life, made that decision to love and forgive him 5 yrs. after the affair, period. I then worked on him not controlling me anymore, even though I had fought to defend myself and try and seek things for our kids before the affair, as he always felt that he came first. So many arguments sometimes, but due to his earning the living, I would finally give in.

        I don’t feel that we ever had the warm, total happiness (at least I didn’t ever feel the same) after the affair. I still had the pain in my heart and never understood and also still questioned, periodically if he did have sex with her. That never went away. At this point without counseling, I know that I don’t have those feelings at all now and am not sure if I can get them back. I have finally pulled the betrayal and lies out from under the rug and am not sure if I want him anymore in my life. It’s hard to even look at him and smile. He’s definitely trying to create it, but doesn’t want to discuss the affair. He wants us to live in the NOW!

        When I said that I had been to 4 or 5 therapists, I didn’t leave them because I didn’t like what they were telling me, they just didn’t seem to have any solutions to our problems. I went to them for at least 5 times, with most of them. Only the last one did I disagree with, as he was totally on my H’s side and felt I shouldn’t ask him any questions on something that happened 25 yrs. ago. I do need to find one and he has definitely agreed to go to one, but he wouldn’t go off on a weekend for couple’s to help in communication.

        It’s hard to believe that your H wouldn’t answer your questions either. Yes, I get the same, “I’m not that same person anymore, I can’t believe that I did those things.” I couldn’t do that now and yes, he has said, he is sorry. But I do need the bigger, I’m sorry as I have been through hell with him and that’s the least he can do. I still feel that he is remorseful now, 25 yrs. later, because he doesn’t want me to leave or him to be alone and it comes down to money also. It always comes down to money, so I’m not sure he’s totally sincere. I also feel that the #1 reason is he wants it to all go away and that we can put it to bed and just have PEACE before we die of stress. To be happy, to laugh and enjoy what time we have left. All that sounds good, except I don’t feel like laughing, I feel to sad and hurt inside. He does the Gestures if it’s convenient for him, like bringing home a donut or flowers. Their are small changes, but it doesn’t take much for him to get set off and tell me to just move out, like this weekend. His temper is still a big problem. He has OCD and always has and he’s had trouble controlling that. No, I can’t hear that he is saying sorry, but I can’t hear it! I will check into the book you suggested. I have many books here, one he was suppose to read to help men, but he hasn’t read it. What is the name of the book you are speaking about?

        I have bit my tongue for years and I’m tired of dealing with the pain, so I am just silent a lot. I don’t think he’ll ever have another A, he wouldn’t ever want to go through with this again and I believe him. Four years ago, when he started treating me without love and sex, I did think he was having one. No, he never totally trust again.

        I will try and praise, but my anger inside that I thought that I would have answers to these questions this year has stopped me from giving him praise. I do it a little, but I always wonder why didn’t you quit drinking 25 yrs. ago, when you saw all the problems it caused. Even after the affair, you didn’t stop drinking for me or yourself. He comes up and hugs me, but I honestly don’t want to hug him right now. I’m not even sleeping in the same bed, as I don’t want him touching me at night or even during the day as I’m angry inside and just feel dead also.

        Their isn’t any issues with drinking, it’s been over a yr. and he is a determined person and I really feel that he won’t drink again. Maybe if I leave him, he will slip, but others have drank around him and he handles it. He says he still wants to drink but knows he can’t. It probably helps that I hardly ever drink. Yes, we definitely need a counselor to help with his control issues, even though their better. I feel he needs anger management more.

        Sorry this is so darn long, I never can tell a short story.

        Blessings,

        Linda T.

    • justbecause

      newoi11, If it’s a secret for either of you,it’s wrong. The relationship he has with you, causes him to devalue his wife. You are not helping him. You are an architect. Stick to that. You are not a marriage counselor. Not only do you not know if the H is a psycho or not, what about the OW? If I had been a psycho, my h’s OW could have put her enitre workplace at risk. How many police calls, shootings, workplace violence are due to domestic disputes? I’m thinking yours is a long distance EA? So what, the damage is still being done. And what is distance? I would have been in a car, on a plane in a minute uponn discovering my H’s EA. I have my passport and my credit card. I would be on your doorstep and in your life. Back off. Get a real life.

    • justbecause

      Linda T, You have to decide if your marriage is worth saving. You have to have faith that your decision, whatever it is, will work out.

      You mention your H’s drinking. You may think you know how much he drinks but it may be much more. My H is an alcoholic. I rode the rollercoaster of every 2 to 4 or 5 month cycles. I believe in the alcoholic brain. Alohol changes people. Their brain chemicals actually change. My H has quit drinking. It has made all the difference. I grieve for the past but it is water under the bridge. I must live for the future. I am with my husband because he has apologized, is making amends where he can, has quit drinking. I would not be with him if these things had not occurred. I now realize how bad things were, what we had been missing, what our children missed. It is very sad. Grieve and carry on.

      • Linda T.

        justbecause,

        I’m not sure if it’s worth saving, he does. I just can’t seem to forget how he has treated me all these years, especially during the affair and afterwards. Their was no remorse shown hardly at all the first 4 yrs. If someone loves you and regrets what they’ve done, why don’t they show it? I’ll never understand that. Even during our 25th. Anniversary, supposedly one yr. after it ended, he didn’t act romantic, fell asleep during making love. The humiliation of so many things. How he could turn his back on me and have an A with someone he just had drinks with for a couple nights at a conference. He was that weak to forget about me and just think about wanting to be around her, after a 25 yr. marriage. I just can’t understand why I wasn’t more important. I literally want to strangle him for messing up our life and now when it has all come back to me, he just wants us to move on as he’s stopped drinking for a yr. not as controlling, but still can’t give me answer’s and gets angry and doesn’t want to talk about it. I don’t know if I can live with this man that didn’t love me enough to not betray me?????

        I know that drinking changes you, it sure did him for many years even way before the affair. I wasn’t as important to him then and he would take up with other people instead of me. I know that he drank more, numerous times. He couldn’t even talk, threw up, etc., many times. I left him twice for doing just that. He decided 1 yr. ago Christmas day to stop drinking and he has.

        I grieve so much for the life I thought we were going to have and worked so hard for, only for him to be a selfish SOB and screw it up. It has totally changed our lives, how I use to be and the whole family. I know it’s water under the bridge, but all those yrs. ago, I stayed busy with the grandchildren, loved and kept forgiving his drinking and selfishness, but I wasn’t ever going to put up with an affair. The pain was so great, that I couldn’t deal with it and now it’s come back full force, because he started treating me the same way the past 4 yrs. No love, affection, anger, etc. Yes, my H has finally apologized, about 25 yrs. later, no sincerity was shown much before that point. Only a year ago has he tried to be a better person, but heaven forbid if I bring up the past, then the anger comes back. I tried for over 20 yrs. put up with him still drinking, not cherishing me, nor giving me emotional support because I had decided to stay, love and make the marriage work. I wish he had tried to do the same.

        Yes, we missed out on a lot due to his drinking and selfishness. It’s so sad for me to even think about our life and the way it could have been, but yet he doesn’t want to talk about what he could have done to make our life how it should have been, even before the affair. He says that I am trying to knock him down and I’m not. I just want him to see what he missed and how it should have been if he had been in the marriage. I don’t know if I can carry on, that question is still out. If I was 30 yrs. younger, I would be gone, now I’m 69 and it’s a huge decision to make.

        Thanks for the onsite,
        LindaT

    • justbecause

      Linda T, My H also gets angry when/ if I bring up the EA. Our counselor has suggested we set certain times to talk about issues. It may not be just the EA questions. We are not to discuss it at home, have a set amount of minutes to discuss things, always end with a hug and I love you. I know this seems like I’m simplyfying things but it may be a start.

      It sounds like you have to decided to stay. That’s ok. It is your decision and you have made it. Now grieve for the past. It is sad. But move on. This does not mean you have to live like you have been. But if you are busy, involved and perhaps become happy, your H might want to be a happy person too.

      His stopping drinking is awesome. This is a great start. Tell him you are proud of him for this. What has he replace his drinking with? He needs to find something – church, exercise, hobby …. there must be something. Actually a year off drinking is not all that long. It may seem so to him, but the brain takes a long times to recover.And he does need a support person as do you. I know you have tried to be supportive in the past. But now he is not drinking and you have decided to stay with him. So you must work on yourself, and continue to be supportive of him.

      I wish you the best.

      • Linda T.

        justbecause,
        Is your counselor telling you not to discuss the affair at all at home, or to just limit the time? Not sure if I understand you totally? I hear you about the hug, which I don’t want to do and I haven’t been able to tell him “I love you” in a couple of years. The words just don’t want to come out and I’m not sure if I do? I’m a very sincere and honest person and I can’t say something that I might not feel. He is aware of this and I know he wants me to. I use to say, “Me Too” after he would tell me, but I can’t even do that now. Those things would be so hard for me to do and when he hugs me, I can feel myself holding back.

        No, I haven’t decided to stay, I’m not sure until I find out if he had sex or not through a better Polygraph test. I need to get past that and get the truth. If he did, I won’t stay in the marriage, first I would never be able to have sex with him again and I would be livid that he has has sex with me for 25 yrs. under a lie, just like he did during the affair. I still can’t get over that he could sleep in the bed with her and come home and sleep with me also.

        I am grieving for the past and really can’t seem to get past that. All the pictures that I looked at doing my Dad’s 90th. birthday party made me realize that during our daughter’s wedding, vacations, graduations, he’s smiling like crazy while cheating on me. I can’t even look at those pictures now and that’s sad. I threw away the ones of our 25th. as he was having the affair then and he never danced with me all night, nor paid attention to me. So many bad memories that should be good ones.

        Yes, I know I need to be doing things and I was for a while and was doing better. What do you mean, “This does not mean you have to live like you have been?”

        He knows that I am happy that he has stopped drinking, do I tell him I’m proud of him, not enough as he throws it in my face that he is strong enough to do anything if he puts his mind to it. That makes me angry, because his drinking for over 40 something years has affected so much of our life and I feel that the affair wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t been in the lounge drinking to much after the conference. I asked him so many times to stop, left him twice due to it. Yes, it is awesome that he had done it and I can’t believe that he’s been able to. Me not being a drinker might help. He hasn’t replaced his drinking with anything. He still exercises everyday, plays tennis once a week and takes care of the house, but nothing different. He’s not into church, doesn’t have any male friends, except maybe 2 but doesn’t do anything with them unless I’m there also. He’s always depended on me for his happiness and I’m not giving it to him now, so I’m sure he can’t be happy.

        I didn’t realize after a yr. that his brain hasn’t recovered, I’ll have to read more about that. Are you referring to AAA as he isn’t going to go. What do you mean that I need to a support person also? Yes, he’s not drinking, I hardly ever drink, maybe one drink a month if I go out. When you say that I must work on myself, are you referring to therapy, which I plan on doing? I do support him not drinking.

        Thanks for your best wishes and help,

        Linda T.

    • Melissa

      Linda T
      Justbecause’s comments do resonate with me, I think she says some very wise things.

      Before I forget, the book is ‘How to improve your marriage without talking about it’ by Patricia Love and Steven Stosny. I found it very helpful.

      As to my story, I discovered the EA in 2009 and it had been going on since 2003 or thereabouts. The OW needed ‘help’, she worked in the same industry as my H. She also went through a marriage (to a man her own age) and a divorce during that time. Apparently her H was not ‘giving her enough attention’ – I can tell you, that girl needs A LOT of attention! At the time, I was deeply upset by issues with his family, I couldn’t find a way out (therapy helped enormously) and I was not a lot of fun to be with, I guess. Although that’s no excuse for my H’s choices, it provided a fertile ground for an EA. There was no remorse at all to start with and, worse, when my H wrote me a note saying he was sorry and would not do it again, that he loved me and was dedicated to our marriage, he and the OW met again at a conference and kept it secret (I found out, however, and totally blew my top). I still live in fear of their being in contact with each other or meeting at an event or of my H having another EA. I have to live with this. They’re my thoughts, my lack of trust, my fears. Like you, I have so many bad memories that should have been good ones but I am trying to create new, good memories.

      As to therapists, they, as a rule, cannot give you a solution. They can, however, take you by the hand to the place where you find your own solution. And it is hard but once you come out on the other side, life is much clearer.

      You are talking about your H possibly having sex with the OW. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. You can’t change that and making yourself miserable about the past is not helping you. Is a ‘better polygraph’ test really going to help you? It certainly is going to bring your H back to square one, the fact that you do not trust him and have not forgiven him. I have friends whose H have had physical affairs and they have managed to get over it. Again, it’s hard. But I see now how happy they are and it is possible.

      It is interesting that there is a correlation between your H’s drinking and his EA. Maybe that is the reason why he is trying hard not to drink: he realises it was partly his drinking which brought on the EA and your subsequent pain and destruction of his marriage to you. Not drinking could be akin to saying ‘I’ll never do that again’.

      Have you asked yourself the question ‘how important will this be in a month’s time? In a year’s time? In ten years’ time? How can you make these next ten years happier and more harmonious – with or without your H? Can you think not about the ‘how life could have been’ but about ‘how life can be, now’? Life is precious, it’s short, it’s unpredictable, it’s scary and it’s wonderful too. Can you make your life wonderful for you?

      Yes, your H was able to live a lie. So was mine. So were all the CS on this site. I do believe that it is much easier for men to compartmentalise and live two lives at the same time – and sometimes the other life, the one with the OW, is but a fantasy. My H, I am sure, humiliated himself over his infatuation with the OW and I think he can see that now – but he would never say so.

      I know you are in pain and struggling with it all. Keep up the good work supporting your H’s not drinking. Make time for yourself, not just for your family. Find someone to support you in your fight. Make lists if need be, to help whatever decision you need to make. But, if you can, try and live in the now, not in the past. The past is gone, it’s an empty country, go and find your own new road for today.

    • strugglinghusband

      Still struggling here for it to end. We’d separated, it happened, and now back together for 6 months, but she is still communicating with him in secret, even though it was not to happen and I and the other spouse were to know if it did. I have been my very best since my wife has returned home. I love her to the max, do everything around the house, and provide for her to the point of spoiling her. I know this is probably not the best, but I want her to know that if she leaves again for her emotional affair, that it will not be because of anything lacking at home. We have not fought at all since her return, and things are good in the bedroom as well. My trust in her is very low, and just found more evidence of them emailing and do not know how to improve or stop that. It is wrong in my book in any fashion given what happened last summer with them..ie maybe more than emotional. I know she is still struggling with getting over the EA, even though it has been 6 months since she called it off. The counselors did not help any by saying it was ok for her to keep in contact with the married fling. I do not trust or know what goes on when she is at a computer at work or when I’m out of town for work. I know the amount of work and change I’ve put into the last 6 months. I also know it is still going on. I’d love to eliminate the internet. I enjoy the feeling of doing for her unselfishly and loving her. I wish I could see the same Love (verb) in return.. My biggest fear is a relapse. The addiction is still there. The attraction to the perfect 6 weeks is still there. Facebook and who knows what else keeps him right in front of her weekly if not daily. She says don’t worry. he is married and will not leave his wife, but that to me is just and excuse to justify the communication. I wish I knew what to do or how to continue to improve the situation, ie end it totally.

    • Strength required

      I wonder on just how much pain has to be caused before the pleasure is overridden.
      I feel like I went through hell everything falling apart around us,
      with all the pain going around, there must be a great deal of pleasure going on.

      That’s pretty sad.makes me feel incredibly sick at the thought.

      • dave

        The pain is awfull and hits hard sometimes. I am trying to get through the 3rd month of this nightmare. I still have not been able to get my spouse out of this fog. I am starting to think that breaking up is the only choice I have left. I want it to work but all of her attention is going to the OM via text/facebook. Hundreds of times a day. I confronted her about it and finally she admitted that it was an inappropriate relationship. Its a start, at least she didnt completely lie to my face this time. I told her this is destroying our lives and she is living a fantasy. I am being as strong as I can for our kids but its getting harder all the time. Its like she doesnt even notice that she is throwing away all of our lives. We will see if she can stopbut I think she is addicted

        • Melissa

          dave, I can imagine what your life is like at the moment and it’s awful, unbearable, disheartening, frightening…These first three months (or six, or nine, or twelve…) are the worst, when you can’t get through to your wife however hard you try, when you discover more and more ‘evidence of her addiction, when it seems she doesn’t care for you, for your kids, for your life together, for all that you shared. I know, like so many here, I’ve been there. But believe me, it’s going to take a lot longer than three months for life to get better and I do wish it does for you with all my heart.

          First of all, your wife has to realise – deep down – that she has overstepped the mark, that she is living a fantasy, that the EA was not real. Unfortunately, that realisation can only come from her, not from you. I tried and tried and tried with my H to show him how it was all a sham. I don’t think I succeeded.

          What you can do is be yourself, look after the kids, look after yourself and take a couple of steps back. Bite your tongue (even though you want to rant and rage and, again, I’ve been there and I was there for months on end, day in day out). Be the best person you can be. State your boundaries clearly, in writing if need be. Say what you can and cannot accept. Then step back. Tell her you’ll go to counselling together, if she says she won’t, go on your own to at least keep yourself from going crazy and gain some perspective. Hang in there, be true to yourself.

          Take care.

    • dave

      Thank you Mellisa, It’s great advice. I can’t believe what kind of hold this has on her. To get up in the morning and text all day from 5am till bed. What could they possibly talk about day in and day out? And to do it right beside me. Did yours sometimes act like you were still planning a future together? Mine even mentioned us buying a new car a couple weeks ago. I try to understand what is going through her head. She can also be so cold towards me one minute and then fine the next. When I confronted her again yesterday she said she thought things were getting better. I told her she is having an affair with someone else. Things are not better.

      Thanks again for listening

      • Melissa

        Hi dave
        I did not reply last night, I needed a bit of time to think things through as I have not had the same experience as you did. My H’s EA was secret until I found out so I never saw him with the OW or heard him calling her. So I was wondering what it means, why is your W so blatant in front of you, what is her motives? Is it because she sees her actions as ‘being transparent’, ‘being in the open’ when, obviously, she is not respecting your boundaries? Talking of boundaries, they are not one-sided (however much we, BS, would love to say ‘you shall not’) and have to be negotiated.

        It sounds like your wife is well and truly ‘in the fog’ – liken it to a teenager who’s got a huge crush, or to a drug addict who cannot stop, used to ‘use’ in secret and is now using in front of you. You can give them some support but they are the only ones who can stop the addiction, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

        Take care.

    • Strengthrequired

      Dave, I have been there too, it seems to drag on forever, but there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel.
      I am trying to trust my h in his word of not contacting in any way shape or form with the ow. It’s hard, but I have to sit back and watch. My h knows that the next time I find out, I will walk away.
      This is now going onto 15 mths since dd for me. It has been a long battle to try and get this addiction of his to stop, but I honestly do see imrpovements all the time. I think sometimes it’s me, who is having the trouble to let go and believe in him, all boils down to the trust that I did give him and had it thrown back into my face for months. It has been a hard road, but I was not prepared to let this ow ruin my family.
      My h has great plans for or future, so that is very promising, yet for me, it’s my turn that needs time to really see that this ow is forever outmof our lives.
      It is true that no matter what you do or say, unless your w sees that her addiction to this ea with this om is just a fantasy, it won’t make a difference.
      She has to be the one that sees it for herself, and the more you push for it to stop the longer it continues. She has to see for herself, what she will lose, she has to see for herself thentrue co ours of the om.
      I too went through the days where my h was so loving, then as soon as he would talk to her or see her, he would be so angr, his whole attitude would change. Mi always knew that it was due to her, confusing him making him feel guilty for being home with his family and not with her, all of his broken promises to her. I hated those days with a passion, it was just another reminder that she was playing with his head. Btw he didn’t have to tell me that he spoke to her or saw her, it would always come out eventually.
      Hang in there Dave, if your wife is what you want, then hang in there, be the loving h towards her, but also look after yourself and your children, she will see what you mean to her, and that you are real not a fantasy feeling.
      These are hard days….

      • Brian Too

        Dave, I am so happy you found this site. I know you will be in good hands with all the good people here. I have to agree whole heartedly. You will need to set boundries with your spouse. These boundries will help you gain strength and know were the emotional limits are. This will keep the EA from erupting into something deeper. I, like all others had given my spouse limits. One of those limits was that she would never bring the OM to our home. Well, I was out of the country on business and found out that she brought him to our home and both my adult son and young daughter were home. Well, when the limits are challenged, you must act on them. Iong story short, I told her she had to get packed and move out. It took about one month, but she did move out, taking our young daughter. This was never my intention to get to this extreme, but you have to be vidulant. You have to let them know you will not stand buy and let them walk over you. Never be a doormat. I am not saying be defensive, but be strong. Continue your life, be strong for your kids, be strong for yourself. Show your wife you can be a great husband. I know your spouse will be bold and make contact with the OM in the open. Mine, talked on the phone in another room. Like you, there may have been hours of text, phone conversation, and E-mails. This is the cloud/fog we all talk about. The conversations and contact is all fantasy. This consumes them and makes it feel like it is real. Just remember, be yourself, and all of this was meant to be. You can’t change people or what they do. You can only change yourself. Also, your happiness comes from within. Dont stop being a happy father.

    • Disappointed

      You simply can’t compete with the affair. My husband has been seeing the OW for at least 5 months if not longer. And it is now a PA. She is married with two kids and none of that seems to matter. They meet 2-3 times a week, mostly at a mall or park and then sit in her car talking and making out like teenagers for half an hour to 6 hours. They get a hotel every 2 weeks. Most of this occurs during the day while her h and I are at work. I now find towels and pieces of clothing covered in dried you-know-what from his self directed fantasy sessions in between their trysts. He denies all and calls me paranoid and spying. I have found a new job and will refi the house and trade down my car in efforts to save money before confronting him, but it is getting harder ever day. I have tried to get him to admit it without revealing that I know, but he piles lie on top of lie. It is impossible to fight the fantasy. I have been fighting for 16 months and am absolutely defeated. We have been together for 21 years and married for almost 18… And it means nothing to him a good friend died suddenly and I told him it makes our issues seem silly, but he saw it as life is short, this isnt working, time to move on. I will never accept any of this, but it doesnt matter if I do… It is happening anyway.

    • dave

      Thank you all for your support. I always thought I was stronger than this. That if this happened to me then I would end the relationship. Instead it has consumed my life. i worry about the kids. who will they live with? how much will support be? can i still afford my house payment? Then the thoughts I have about my spouse. Why? what is she thinking? What is she doing? Every time I hear her cell phone go off it triggers pain in me. Then my thoughts start taking over again. I even have trouble focusing at work.
      I think that this has made me a much better person. I can promise that I will never take my relationship for granted again. And I will be much more aware of what is happening around me. I could feel the wall coming up between us last fall and I did nothing. Maybe I could have saved us all so much pain if I would have acted then.

      • Brian Too

        Hey Dave, Don’t blame yourself. Everything is in the past. You can’t get that back. All you can do is be the best for yourself and kids now and for the future. Your kids will always be yours. Wether this EA happened now or years down the road, it was meant to be. Fate has a way of showing us, what needs to be done. It also gives us a chance to be so much stronger in our lives. Don’t over consume yourself with trying to figure out the why, when, and how your spouse is doing what she is doing. This is something a good therapist and counselor will help you through. Also, people here, can help. I have been reading and commenting here for 2 years. Also, if you can, read as much as you can. Understanding all this will truly help. Books like ” The Four Agreements” and others make you a better and stronger person. Remember, you are not alone. We have all gone through what you have described here. We are all here for you. After you start reading, you will understand that everything your spouse does or will do has happened to others and almost seems textbook after awhile. The EA is a an all consuming addiction. You can start comparing it to drug abuse or drinking. I did. It was like a drug abuse for my spouse. There are the highs, lows, and hangovers. You can get through this. Good, bad or indifferent, in the end, it will be her choice and hers only. Stay busy, stay healthy, and be the best dad you can.

    • dave

      I know your right Brian. I am so glad I found this site because I can actually share my feelings. My freinds and family still do not know what is going on. Kind of hurts the pride. It is nice to have people who understand what your going through that can give you advice.
      Thank you

    • Strengthrequired

      Dave, Brian is tight you cannot blame yourself. Yet I’m sure we all here did, because for our spouses to o what they did it must e our fault. Yet as we look deeper, we were the ones that stood by our h/w, we didn’t stray from our marriages. Some of us didn’t even have arguments. Some of us didn’t even know there was a problem until the ea. The reason for that, our h/w confided in the wrong person, when they should have confided in us.
      Yet I to take this as a blessing in disguise, because in all reality my h and I are much closer. In the beginning, it honestly felt like I was doing all the work trying to keep our marriage together, even for months and months later while being intimate with me my h still telling me that he loved the ow. He couldn’t stop his addiction to her even when he would tell me he didn’t have love feelings for her anymore. It has been one roller coaster ride after another, yet those days I threatened to leave seeing him continuously choose me over her had me keep fighting. Even though he still kept the contact with her and I hated it with every fibre of my being, I knew I couldn’t stop him, it has to come from him.
      I had told him on several occasions to go and be with her, because although I loved him, I jus couldn’t cope with it anymore, he still wouldn’t.
      So I look at it now as being, why should I let her destroy my family, my h doesn’t want that to happen, o why should I let her win. It’s not her family who are suffering, it’s mine. So I will continue to fight for my marriage, for my family, my h. While my h is living with me, we get stronger, they get weaker.

    • dave

      Strength required, thank you for your support and story.It sounds like our stories are similar but I am earlier in the process. I hope I can be as strong as you were. I can see the stress my spouse is under and it bothers me. I can see it in her eyes that she has mixed emotions. I am worried about her. Dont ask me why because she has caused me a great deal of pain. Is there anything I can do to help her through this? I think I am finally getting to the point where I can let her go and move on with my life. The thing is she has not made any plans to move out or split up. Why do you think that is? It makes no sense to me that she would keep this dragging on. I feel like she is just keeping me around for back up.

      • Brian Too

        Hey Dave, You will always have feelings for your spouse no matter what. This is who you are. This person is the love of your life, mother of your kids. Some way, shape or form she got lost. However, it is not your fault. Of course she hasn’t done anything. She has the best of both worlds here. She has her cake and eating it too. Why would she stop, she has no commitment from this other person. They dont pay the bills, they don’t maintain, they don’t take care of your kids. All it is is fantasy, no real commitment. Mine was the same. It was until one of these was not a choice, that it started to break down. You cannot allow her to have both worlds. Make her make a choice. Choices will make or break a person. Right, wrong or indifferent, they need to be made. My spouse moved out, because she knew it was wrong to have a EA with someone else and both be in the same home. Even though I endured 8 months of living together, but yet no emotional relationship with her. It was like living with a room mate that was the mother of your children. Rollercoaster of emotion and pain. I had enough. It was so much easier with life, not having to endure this affair directly. At least, once she moved out, I didn’t know, and frankly at this point, it was nothing I could control anyway. So, hardest was having to have my daughter part time. Anyway, what ever you do, you have to make choices. Whatever they are, dont regret. Stick to it and be vigil. Your kids will always know that you love them. I couldn’t let my kids know I would have a spouse who was in love with some other person and yet live in the same house. This is the wrong thing I wanted to show my kids. I know you will make the right choice. Be strong!

    • Broken2

      Dave….My husband had an affair with a coworker and we are 31 months post dday. We are together and very happy but it hasn’t come easy. I normally try and stay away from reading this forum anymore because it hurts me but I read your post and needed to reply. Dave I remember the awful pain and devastation you feel right now. The grief and the pain so unbearable that just getting out of bed was an effort. I have found over the past almost 3 years that every affair and recovery is different but most successful recoveries follow very similiar paths. First off as hard as it may be you have to take care of yourself, you have to eat and sleep and go on with your life no matter what your wife is doing. When we show our cheating spouses that we can be strong without them, they see it and don’t like it. Dont be a doormat. Stop blaming yourself for the affair because you didnt make the choice to cheat…she did. If your marriage wasn’t as good as it could have been you made the moral choice to honor your marriage vows…she made the weak, selfish choice to cheat. Take care of your children…go on with your life. Right now she is still in her little fantasy world. Make it clear that your not going to wait around that you are moving forward. Make it clear that if she wants to move forward with you that there can be NO CONTACT with the OM. Cheating spouses can sometimes be brought out of their little world when they know there is a very large chance you are moving on and dont need them. Dont let her ever think your a backup…regain control of the situation. Tell her when there is no contact and total transparency you can talk but you are moving forward. Seek pprofessional help if you can afford it…if not read all you can on infidelity on this site and in books. Be careful who you chose to tell about this situation…chose a trusted friend but be careful of family members. Be sensitive to your children because even if you dont tell them they know something is wrong and need you. Get your financial house in order…..see a lawyer if need be. But the best thing you can do to try and get her out of the funk is to act like you dont need her. Neediness even though you feel really needy right now fuels her fire. Since she is still there acting the way she is…she probably knows she is wrong. It isn’t your place to help her right now. You can tell her you love her, you want to save your marriage, you are ready to talk but you wont be there forever and she will need to make a choice now not later. I told my husband the moment I found out…its her or me right now and No contact from now on. He called her in front of me right then. Had he not done that, I would have left. You have a long ways to go but I can tell you that you cant heal your wife and in order for your relationship to work she has to become your healer. SHe did the crime…you are the victim….it isnt the other way around. Se strong and show her that strength…its scary to a cheating spouse. YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT…SHE IS!

    • dave

      Thanks Broken 2 and Brian, this site is really helping me cope and pull myself together. The advice you guys are giving is great. It’s very coforting to know that things will get better one way or the other. I think living with her is making it much harder on me. I will not tolerate her making contact with the other man in front of me anymore. In fact, if she does I will cancel the cell phone plans all together. Why should I pay for the instrument that helped bring this OM into our lives. I think I have been way to nice because I wanted her to stay.

      • Melissa

        Take care, dave. Broken 2 and Brian have wise words for you. It is true – although it may sound totally counter-productive – that the less needy you seem, the stronger you will be. Also, setting up boundaries, as I said before, is extremely important. Broken 2’s H finished his EA there and then, my own H did not and there was a second D-Day (this, I understand from this forum, is hard to take but not unusual) so be prepared for promises to be broken and tears at bedtime until the addiction runs its course. Be strong, be prepared and plough your own furrow. It doesn’t mean you don’t love your wife, it doesn’t mean you’re unhelpful to her, it just means you have to try and allow her to realise how stupid she is being just now and how much she has to lose. My H never told me so but I do believe that he now realises how absolutely stupid he was to get into his EA and how near he came to losing the person who has loved him and supported him for many years, the person who can still make him laugh and has (nearly) always been there by his side.

      • forcryin'outloud

        Dave, I agree with the others. My advice is to set some firm boundaries. I waited entirely too long to do this and my family paid the price. But once I laid it ALL on the line that this bs behavior was no longer going to work for me he awoke from fantasy island. He told me that’s when he realized he was looking at losing his family and what was most important to him.
        Read a recent post by Linda abou how anger can aid in snapping the person back to reality.
        https://www.emotionalaffair.org/discussion-expressing-your-anger/
        Best of luck..it truly is a journey!

    • Strengthrequired

      Dave, there is not much that I could really tell you except, let yu know some of the things that I have done.

      I needed ti show my h exactly how much I loved hiim, s I did and I keep doing that every day. I just keep reminding him.

      I suggested we have dates, weekends away and holidays where it is just the two of us, holidays didn’t happen only because we are still struggling financially due to the ea.

      I reminded him wha we have together, at the very beginning I pulled out all of our family photos and had him sit down next to me and we looked through them. I let him know that we still are the same people as we were back then.

      I remind him everyday on how important our family is to the both of us.

      I remind him of what he risks losing if the ea with the ow and the contact kept continuing. He doesn’t want to lose what we have.

      I let him know that he loses everything, and that is what she wants, so he can be with her.

      I let him know all the problems and how wrong it would be and if he actually thinks that a life with her would actually last, it started out the wrong way, it started out with lies and betrayal and hurt many people. How can a love affair last starting out like that. We started out loving each other the right way.

      I remiinded him on where was she all those years, who actually stood by him for a life time. Me…..

      I remind him of how wonderful he is, what a wonderful father and provider he is, a wonderful business man, especially when he doubts himself. I let him know how much u respect him. I let him know that people make mistakes and the beauty of making mistakes is we can learn by them and not make the same ones over again.

      I let him know that whatever he chooses, I would always love him, I would be happy for him, if she was what made him happy, but I would move away, he will always have contact with his kids, but dint expect her to have it. She doesn’t get to be apart of our children’s lives. I also told him that the reason I would move far away is I don’t want to see him with her ever, and I don’t want to run into them one day especially when she has her kids with them and our kids see that, it would hurt them way to much because he should have been with us not her.

      I let him know how he risks losing the respect of his children, if he chose her, because of the way he chose to Enid our relationship, in the wring way.

      I let him know that I would always be there for him, I would always love him, but he needs to be able to understand I would move on with my life, find someone else and he needs to understand if that happens, there is no more chance of us reconciling. I would have moved on with my life, and that he had chosen his path in life he wished to take. He had to be happy for me.

      I have let him know exactly in how much this has hurt me, and our children, and if he couldn’t see it then there was something wrong.

      These are just some of the things I have mentioned to my h, apart from also letting him know the arguments over our children, over him coming to see me, over him paying money to support our children, the arguments and fights with her kids, the drama of having to deal with her h, how it would be way to much stress to maintain this love of theirs if he chose her. My h, can’t stand a lot of conflict, he would walk away straight away, she doesn’t know that about my h. He knows it wouldn’t last wit her.

      So just kittle reminders, I like to toss his way.

      I won’t say we haven’t had our fights, especially for months at the very beginning, but things are improving.
      The humiliation, the stress, the depression, betrayal, is so consuming at times, but it does lessen. You will feel foolish at times, I often question myself on why I stayed, but if my h didn’t give me hope that we can repair our marriage, I would have left.

      No one can tell you what is right for you, this is your life, you know your wife, however if like me you see there are things your wife does that shows you she still loves you, then maybe that is what you need to keep fighting.

      Only you can tell when it is time that you can’t take anymore, that enough is enough.

      One thing I know is unless both h and w are willing to work on the marriage it won’t work, it has to be both, not one sided.

    • Xterra

      Hi Dave,
      I know how you feel about you wife “talking” to the OM while you we’re in her presence; my wife texted him while sitting in the passenger seat while I was driving, she texted him during family time, even after we had sex! I felt very disrespected, hurt, angry. But fortunately, she snapped out of the fog as soon as she admitted it … She said it hit her like a kick to the stomach that she could lose her family, everything we had built over the years. She said that she was living in a fantasy world, and was more concerned about losing him and didn’t want to let him down and didn’t want to lose the attention he constantly showered on her.
      I too would suggest you try to make her see what she may be losing … Like my wife said, “the grass is not always greener”. You need to look after yourself first and foremost. Give her an ultimatum, she has to stop all contact with the OM and focus on your family. If not, show her the door. Sorry for being harsh, but if you want to work things out with her, you have to put your foot down.

    • Carol

      Hi, Dave — my experience with my CS was similar to XTerra’s with his. Re: the grass being greener — which commenter on this board pointed out that the grass is greener where all the shit is? 🙂 When I found out about the EA, my first reaction was shock — which quickly became anger. I told him within about 24 hours that if he was stupid enough to think some opera whore was better than his faithful wife of 18 years and the mother of his children, that he was too much of a fool for me and he could get the hell out. I offered to throw his things out the windows of our house myself. Guess I am still part Arkansas trailer park, heh. He said he felt like he was hit by a 2X4 in the head. He wrote the bitch, told her ‘this is good bye’ (I hated the emotional melodrama in his note, but oh well — at least he told her he was done with her and needed and wanted to recommit to his marriage), and started trying to change. (I also wrote the bitch myself with a few choice words.)
      In short: a firm boundary can snap ’em out of it faster than anything, IF they’re ever going to be snapped. You have to mean it, of course, and in my case I was so outraged that he would treat me so shabbily after all I’ve done for him and our children that — if he’d walked or said he preferred to be with her — I would have been okay with that. I didn’t really WANT him back if he didn’t change, thoroughly and fundamentally. And I made that very, very clear.
      You have to do what seems best to you, of course. But I do think that right now things seem pretty easy for your wife — she can live in fantasy la-la land with no cost to HER. You are paying the entire price. It’s time for her to have to pay up.

    • dave

      Hi everyone, yesterday went pretty good. I think contact has stopped and she was acting normal for the first time in months. Maybe she has snapped out of it. Im just going to stand back and observe. Im done playing games so if I even think this is still happening I am ending it. It’s funny, after I made that decision my pain and suffering is not as severe. I should have done this months ago.

    • Strengthrequired

      Dave, your right. When I made the decision that I wasn’t going to take anymore of the lies. Once I made the decision to stand back and watch and see if my h has either been true to his word or not, as the truth will eventually show itself, it always does. It will be easier for me to throw my hands up and walk away if he is still in contact with her. The pain has lessened.
      I know that if it came out that the contact hasn’t stopped, it will still hurt, but I will be strong enough to put myself first.

      You know today, I said o my h ” I have come to this conclusion, if you were stupid enough to continue contact with her, then you know something? No matter which way I look at it, I win…..”
      then I mentioned the reasons why I win.
      I told him ” the reason I win, is if you stay I win, yet if I find out you haven’t been truthful about stopping all contact, then I am strong enough to walk away. Although I will love you always, and you will always be in my lfe, I win, because, she will never live in peace, because your relationship didn’t start out honest, she will show her true self, you will show your and she may not like it. She will always wonder about when you see your kids, what are we doing together, it will always be on her mind, wondering, are we sleeping with each other, what we are talking about. She will never have peace because she knows that we love each other, we have a long history together as well as our family. It wont matter to her whether i remarried or not she will always wonder, arguements will happen because of it. I will be the one finally living in peace.
      I will be the one living. Happy life, while she is suffering all the pain ten fold to what she caused our family”
      ” however, you also won’t be happy, because you now have our 6 kids, her 3 then possibly another one or two with her, ( I laughed at that so hard, because I know he would be so miserable with her). ” He said to me that wouldn’t happen, lol.
      I Let him know again, how he would always have to deal with the dramas of her h, and that I know that he wouldn’t be able to put up with it, he would leave.
      I laughed so hard, in the mere joy of both my h and her living this life that they would have chosen, the misery they would be living. I laughed that much that although my h was taken a back, he too ended up laughing.
      He said but that won’t happen because I’m not risking losing you.
      Yet I said, but do you see, I end up living in peace, while your life gets worse. I live in peace because when I let go of you, I no longer have to look over my shoulder, be the person having lies given too, just so you can keep the contact with her, because I let you go. The only reason I would let you go, if you disrespected our marriage, myself and our family, by keeping her in your life.
      That’s when I’m at peace, because the tables have turned, she may have thought how wonderful she was, sneaking around with you, all the secret conversations behind my back, etc, and you gave her the help to hurt me, the one person you were supposed to love more than anyone and never hurt or let anyone hurt, you were supposed to protect. She ends up feeling it, and at the sane time, although I don’t want you hurting, I will laugh, because you are now sleeping in the bed you made and are suffering along with her, until you finally wake up.

      Do you know how good it was to just laugh out loud and in front of him about how miserable his life would be, felt really good.

    • Strengthrequired

      Hi everyone, you have to read this.
      One affair partner was writing about how the ch chose his wife over her, and how she thought he would marry her and the ch and his family would be all hers.

      http://www.nomoreheartbreak.com/love_or_attention.html

      No sympathy from me, that’s for sure.

    • dave

      I am amazed at how much I pay attention to my spouse now. She can change my mood without effort just by the way she treats me. I hide these emotions and have been putting on a happy live for the moment face. Hard to do though when I have so many mixed emotions inside. I try not to think about the future anymore because I have no idea what is going to happen next. I think she is out of the fog now and is at least starting to get herself put back together. I can feel her attention shift back to me and the kids again. And that feels good but also concerns me because I don’t trust her. Im just going to take it slow and keep my eyes open. I don’t think I can trust her with my heart right now. Living together while in a nightmare like this really sucks. I feel like im getting strong and letting go and then here she comes. With a hug and kiss or talking about the future and I melt. Did any of you have this problem or is it just me? Why am I so in need of her attention. I’m starving for it. I keep it hidden because I don’t want her to know it but its always there. It also feels like the more I hide the way I feel the more she comes back to me.

    • Broken2

      Dave…you cant keep everything hidden. Soon you wil have to talk about what happened in order for you both to heal. You must set boundries with her and you need to know has many details of her affair as you want. Thats the only way to truly understand your life in the last few years because everything you understand to be true was a lie. You need to put back the pieces of your life. There is no reason to feel bad for wanting your wife. You love her and just because she made a huge mistake that doesn’t stop you loving her. As I have said before most successful recoveries follow a similiar pattern. There can be no contact, she lust tell you everything you want to know about the affair and as many times as you want to hear it. She will have to become your healer. There must be full transparency and you must have all passwords to all social media. telephones etc…. Usually after awhile cheaters dont like that but its the only way. Please read as much as you can on the subject…it helps. I never stopped loving my husband. He is and was a good man who made a bad mistake. Its been 32 months for me since I found out about his affair. There have been many bumps in the road but he has changed who he is. He was forced to do that or lose his family and he hasnt changed back. My point is it takes a REALLY LONG TIME to get to this point. We got here because we talked and talked somemore. SHe needs to hear your feelings and she needs to feel the pain she caused you and she nees to know what she stands to lose should it ever happen again or continue. Dont hide…talk to her. YOU Dave control this situation…not her. You will not trust her for a very long time….almost 3 years for me and the trust is returning very slowly and only after we resolved many issues. Two pieces of advise. We had a date night and still do….no affair talk just time together and we limited from the beginning the time we talked about the affair to 10 to 15 minutes per session so that my husband knew there was an end time which for whatever reason helped him to open up. I know it hurt him to know he hurt me so we limited the “bleeding” but he was always available to talk to me when I needed it.

    • dave

      Hi Broken 2, I’m not sure Im ready to talk to her about this yet. I need to feel like she is coming back to me first. Like she really cares. That is the only way I think we can work it out. Also, Im not sure if she wants to stay in our relationship or not. I want to give her some time out of the fog to make this decision with a clear head. When I think she is free from this with a clear head and she comes back to me and says she wants to stay. Then I will be ready to try to rebuild our relationship and set ground rules. I think my head is as messed up as hers right know. What a roller coaster of emotions.

    • SoNotMe

      Hi everyone,
      I am married to my husband 10 years come May, together 15. We have 3 kids ages 3-8. I have always been physically attracted to my husband and have always been proud of our marriage. We have survived most things that would make lesser marriages crumble. My husband has his own business, we’ve been through major home construction, bankruptcy, job changes on my end. And honestly I really have been the rock and the glue holding everything together with very little help. I think I’ve just been too busy to notice or acknowledge I’ve been unhappy. I reconnected with a HS friends on FB the end of August. He is married with 2 kids and 1200 miles away. It didn’t take long for that friendship to turn into all day texting. And into a full-blown relationship. Fake FB pages to chat undetected. We even had a shared community FB page to express ourselves and got the support of many people for our “love”. This started out as a fun distraction from a life that felt drab, burdensome & lonely. And it quickly got out of control. My husband has known for about 5-6 weeks now. It’s been a ridiculous rollercoaster. At first I didn’t even care that he was so distraught. I was in my own crap panicking about losing my BF and my H. My H was panicking, blaming himself, and figuring out how to move forward with me. We rapidly got into counseling, with the assuption that I had cut off the relationship. I wanted to. No…..I wanted to WANT to. I guess I really didn’t want to. It devastated me, the thought of losing this person who had become so important to me. So this happened several times. He would try, I would get caught being in contact with the OM, he would leave, I would beg, he would come back……
      I feel like I have a much beter grip on reality. I want my H, my family intact. I don’t want to go through divorce and the lifetime of bullshit that goes with it. And for what anyway? A married guy that’s 1200 miles away? He’s making a plan to leave his wife. But he’s still there and I’m still here. We’ve discussed our best case scenario and it’s a long distance relationship with hopefully 1-2 weekends a month together. In my fantasy I thought that would be perfect. Always something to look forward to. Real life would never get in the way of our wild romance because we wouldn’t be living real life together. Yeah…what a great relationship. I think according to everything I’ve read it’s classic crap for affair partners to believe that they are in love. That they are soul mates. And that lovey dovey chat…..it becomes EVERYTHING! Can you love 2 people at the same time? I’ve told my AP he’s my everything. My heroin. My addiction. I’ve told him I love him, I need him, I can’t be without him. He has said the same. It’s textbook. My H found a therapist who really seems to have answers and tools to actually help us. We see him Tuesday. So despite everything I’ve said, I found this site because I’m still having a hard time letting go. Sometimes I can force thoughts of the OM away. Other times it takes everything I have not to pick up that phone and even just peek on his FB page. Just a peek. And I miss the pre-disclosure days. I’ll be honest….I miss having my cake and eating it. I long for it sometimes. I want what I can’t have. When my husband is gone or just hating on me I’m desperate for him. When I can’t be in contact with the OM I’m desperate for HIM. Well, maybe not desperate. But I miss him really really bad. I just can’t believe this is my life right now. That affairs turn people into such selfish, narsisstic assholes. I’ve left a path of destruction. Bodies everywhere. And I’ve crawled over them to get to my OM. What a mess!! Any bit of encouragement, anything to give me hope will be so appreciated!!

      • Linda

        This came to our email for some reason. It’s from Spiceyyyyy

        Wow
        I have been in same boat n that was two years ago n it’s still there but much less of a problem n manageable
        However, u will have good days n terrible days n eventually u will be ok. as much as u don’t want to, stop all contact with him, he is not worth it. make time for yourself n your husband and rebuild that life u have. we all make mistakes n u r not alone
        we all want our cake n to eat it but all comes at a price. keep on it n don’t despair, I feel for u so much cos I know the pain.
        big hugs to you n don’t forget u r not alone
        Xxxxxx

      • FinallyOutofIt

        I have some really old comments on this post. I saw this one come up and felt like I needed to respond. Like you, I turned to this site a few years ago while trying to recover from a PA. I disagree a bit with some advice some one posted regarding what to do. Having been in your shoes (at least somewhat), here is what I think you need to do.

        Forget about picking your H or the OM. The first thing you need to do is decide whether you want to stay with your H. The OM should not factor into that decision at all. If you decide to stay with him, then you need to figure out how to make that happen. The first thing will be to stop all contact with the OM – plain and simple.

        If you decide not to stay with your husband, then you need to leave, get that sorted out and then deal with the OM.

        I’ve learned thru many conversations on this site that it’s not possible to objectively pick. You need to separate the two – first figure out what you want to do with your marriage and then figure out what to do about the OM.

        Just my two cents…

    • Surviving

      @SoNotMe,
      Maybe what you should do is to leave and go off by yourself and really figure out what you want either the MM, your H, or neither. It’s really unfortunate that you are not honest with your H, but in fact have him come home under false presences and then continue with your lies. This sick scenario will continue until one of them makes the decision they don’t want to be with you. It’s horrible the kids are being dragged through this, so I would say leave go out on your own get some counseling and end the madness.

    • Broken2

      Sonotme….Dont have any sympathy for you. You are selfish and will ultimately destroy your husband and your children. Boohoo you were the “glue”that held your family together and so unhappy. Then leave….don’t be a selfish, lying cheater. Thats one thing I never understood about cheaters….I think it’s because they are weak minded. with no moral values…instead of destroying the very people that love you the mostby sneaking around….just leave. Your life right now is what you made it and you can undo it by walking away from the other person and being honest and open with your husband. Until then you are a selfish individual with no concern for anyone but yourself. I feel bad for your children…innocent victims about to have their innocense rocked because their mother has no self control. Shame on you. Each time you take a “peek” at a married mans FB page think about your children and think about the other family being lied to and destroyed because of you.

    • dave

      SoNotMe, I wonder if this is the same thing that’s going through my womans head. Let me tell you what I am feeling now. We are on a family vacation. I have been acting as though I am happy. I am not happy!! All I can think about is what has happened and what is probably still happening. I am planning on ending our lives together. My spouse is having fun and kids are having a blast but I am in pain all the time. Your husband has been trying to keep you but that will change. I have been trying to keep mine but as time goes on my feelings change. Now I am starting to think about a future without her. A future in which I can trust the person that is supposed to care for me. If you are smart and can think clear you should stop what you are doing and help your husband recover from this. You have no idea what this does to a man because we have trouble talking to anyone about it. The only person he feels safe talking to about this is you. You are the one hurting him. Stop it and help him.

    • Strengthrequired

      Good on you Dave.
      This pain is bs have been through is a living hell. We live it everyday, we lose our faith we lose our trust in our other halves. We try so hard Judy to hold into it, but at times gets exhausting and emotionally hard to do.
      One thing the cs need to understand, if we didn’t love you, we wouldn’t have stayed and let our lives dwindle into non existence. If we didn’t love you, we would have left and found someone else tha would make us happy.
      Honestly we deserve to be happy too, yet we sit here fighting for the one person that we expected never to hurt us, and I mean ever, our husbands, wives.
      We honored our vows, we chose you for the rest of our lives, through the good times and the bad and we meant them, outherwise again we would not have stayed in a loveless marriage just for the sake of it.
      We chose to have a family with you, so get your head out of the clouds and start looking at what’s right in front of you, who has stood by you and damn well stop being selfish and heartless, and start honoring your vows and your family.
      We have stood by you, because we care and we love you every day more and more since the day we first met.
      Life happens, get over it and start working in the marriage you have, and get those sparks reingnited in your marriage.
      Look at the ace of your children, look at the face of your h/w and really look at the pain that you have caused and out an end to it. You are supposed to help protect your family from home wreckers, we can’t domit alone, so start helping to protect the family you helped create.
      Look at the ow/ow and truly open up your eyes and see the lies, see how the future with this person is unrealistic, how it is not real, it is a fantasy, you didn’t commit your life to this person through marriage, start honoring your marital commitment or leave and let your h/w heal so they can move on with what ever dignity and self respect that they have left. Let your children have the chance to heal, they are the innocent victims and they are the forgotten victims. Gent related for the loss of respect from your kids, because you did something wrong and kept hurting everyone in your path just to have your cake and eat it too.
      Don’t think your life would be better with the ow/om, as once all the fskeness stops and the true selves come to surface, the romance starts to subside, the thrill of the chase, the reality of losing your family hits home, the fear of this person doing the same to you becomes more of a reality. So then don’t feel sorry for yourself, because you made your bed now sleep in it, or wake up and smell the smell the roses before you lose everything and everyone that truly loves you.

    • dave

      Well we are still on vacation and I think she is texting the other person again. Guess she just can’t quit. I think it is time to move on with my life. I just cant see spending another minute with someone who cant put the cell phone down.

      • Bob

        Don’t wonder about it. Ask her.

      • chiffchaff

        Dave – my H would do this. I waited until he’d left his phone out and I smashed it to pieces with a lump hammer. The phone allows them to keep using this ‘drug’ and you have to get her off that phone to go cold turkey. Then any new phone has to have a new number if she wants to stay.
        If you control the phone contract then cancel it. as you said earlier, you shouldn’t be paying for the privilege of having her crap on your marriage like that.

    • Strengthrequired

      I’m so sorry Dave. You know last year my h and I we spent the weekend away to celebrate our 21 wedding anniversary.
      I begged my h not to take his phone, because I knew he wouldn’t be able to help himself calling her in the toilets etc. He never did in front of me just behind my back.
      You know he refusednto not take it and argued and had reasons on why he needed to take the phone with him, of course nothing to do wit her, yet I knew different.
      He was almost ready to cancel our weekend because I didn’t want him to take his phone.
      She even knew we were celebrating ournwedding anniversary, so you can imagine how she would have sent messages and calls, but I never saw them. He always had his phone with him, so I believe he waited until I wasn’t next to him fir the right time.
      I feel for you, I just don’t understand how after so many years together we can be disrespected so easily, just for someone that shouldn’t even be in the picture.
      Take care.

    • WoundedHeart

      I wished I had found this site earlier. I am only 2 months since DDay. My wife started with an EA that turned into a PA. The OM works in the same industry but not the same company. Both are of different faiths. We have two young daughters together and have been together for 8 yrs. He has been together for 11 and just recently had their first children (twins) this past month. This site has helped me understand from real comments and not just a book discussing affairs. This is such a ride that I do not wish on anyone. Especially for the children and family members who are impacted because of a very poor decision of a CS. Most of the comments I have read deal with the CS that does not want to damage the family yet cannot give up the other person. I wish I could say that is what is happening to me. Unfortunately, my wife claims that she wants out. They are having difficulties now. He is trying to break it off with her. Some of it is probably do to the pressure from his family. No one sees this relationship lasting. There is to many things that are working against them.
      There was some moments where it looked like they were breaking things off and she would come back to work on us (around the birth of his children as an example). Unfortunately, the affair had to strong to keep them apart.
      We are separated (temp) for the time being. I hate it. I am working on myself and understand where I have gone wrong. Nothing bad other than not meeting her needs.
      Anyways…I am trying to be patient in waiting for this to die it’s natural death. Hoping that she will return and want to work on us. The children are already being affected and trying to deal with that as well.

    • gizfield

      Wounded heart, like all the betrayed spouses on here, I really hate to see you taking ANY KIND of responsibility for your wifes affair. Notice I said HER AFFAIR. you did nothing wrong. To hear you say you need to change ” and meet her needs” really saddens me. She needs to work on being a wife and mother, not some other man’s girlfriend. Her needs are out of whack if they can only be met by committing adultery.

      • WoundedHeart

        I didn’t mean to imply that I am taking any responsibility for her decision to have an affair. I am only taking responsibility for my actions in not meeting her needs that tempted her. To me, this is two different things. We have gotten to the point where we are more like roommates instead of husband and wife. It is these things that I failed in doing. Spending quality time together, date nights, talking in depth and not just everyday logistics.
        I see the affair as a symptom to the needs I was not meeting. I am not saying that I agree with her actions nor am I happy about them. She has some serious self reflections to do and also to become humble because of them.
        I had to do some self reflection in my part regarding our relationship, not the affair. Was I there for her? Did I provide the emotional needs she craved? It is a two way street in that she has to do the same. Was she meeting mine? Did we effectively communicate them? That is what is hard as the BS as we do love our CS and yet we do not receive the same back.
        What I have read here has made me understand that I will not allow her to have her cake and eat it too. She needs to make a decision and I have to be OK with whatever her decision is. I am not a bad person and her decision to do what she did is not reflective of me. It is what I did or more correctly stated, did not do that I am reflecting on.
        I agree in that I did nothing wrong. If she was as unhappy as she tells me, she should have communicated more affectively with me. What she did and continues to do is not OK with anyone.

    • gizfield

      I see what you are saying, I just see it differently I guess. Which is cool, and I’m glad you are getting benefit from the website.

    • dave

      Hi wounded, I would like to give you some advice while dealing with this situation. Try not to blame yourself and never agree with her that it’s your fault this happened. She will most likely be blamming you to help justify what she is doing to you and the kids. I would notice mine paying attention to everything I said or did just looking for a reason to get upset and ease her guilt. It could be anything from how I said a word to having a hair on my head sticking up. Anything to ease the guilt and justify her behavior. Keep your head up because things will get better.

      • WoundedHeart

        Dave, Oh how true your words are ringing in my ears! She would be irritated by anything I would do. Even if I did something correctly just because it was me. At first, I took offense to this and later realized that it was her problem and not mine.
        The hard part right now is that I have tried to separated myself from her (her idea of a separation) yet she still texts/IMs me. I answer only if it requires a reply (such as my children’s care). I don’t (should say won’t) engage her. I have learned that I am an adult and I can take care of myself. It is just hard to accept and understand why she keeps trying to contact me.

    • strengthrequired

      Check out the 180 and see if it is for you.

    • Gizfield

      Like dave, ‘s wife, and so many others, after/during his affair, my husband loved loved, loved to tell me what was wrong with me. I was too fat and not a good housekeeper. He was fat and lazy as well. Not to mention, he was DATING A WHORE! They wil dish out out as long as you wil take it anything. To deflect attention from their their activities.

    • strengthrequired

      Ohhh giz, I was fat, even though I ad lost 20kgs because of his ea, I could do with more, I was told. I painted the house, ohh wasn’t good enough, the house was clean, not clean enough, I even wasn’t a good mother.
      They try to find anything to stay angry, and to justify their actions.

    • Gizfield

      Yep, it wil always be be something…

    • WoundedHeart

      I am reading up on the 180. I believe I am implementing some of it already. I am working with my counselor right now. I have a 2-1/2 and 4-1/2 year old so it has been hard to deal with her and protecting them. If they were not in the picture, it would be easy to make an ultimatum. Unfortunately, where we are right now, I need to look after them first and foremost.
      I pretty much don’t listen to her when she tries to point out what is wrong. She won’t give specifics anyways because she knows they are wrong. Plus, she knows if she gives me specifics, they can be remedied and she would not have anything to hold over my head. I won’t allow it.. I am trying to keep no contact for 30 days but it is hard with two little ones.
      Their relationship is strained right now, so hoping it will die soon. One of them needs to follow through in ending it. It is all based on fantasy as we all know. His family is hounding him everyday now. Only wish her family would do the same. Unfortunately, I found out that the apple did not fall far from the tree. Thus why her parents are supporting her. They do not understand the damage and consequences done to give sound advise.

      • WoundedHeart

        by they…I mean the CS and the OM

    • strengthrequired

      Wounded, I know what your feeling, I have 6 kids, my youngest were 1 and 3 when my h ea happened.
      I’m sorry your going through this, but your right it is just a fantasy, we all know it, it’s waiting for them to know it.

      Sorry, I would like to say more, but I’m so sick, and have been for several days, just wish it would end.

      • Blue

        StrengthRequired, Hope you get better soon! Sometimes I wish we all lived in the same town, I would bring you over some soup.

        • strengthrequired

          Thanks blue, I ended up buying the kids and myself some chicken and corn soup from the Chinese restaurant and had it delivered.
          My h has been away, like always, due to work, but was so upset, he wanted to come home because he was so worried, but I told him to stay as he idn need to get this flu. I have never felt anything like it before, it has literally wiped me off my feet. My poor youngest two have it also, and they have been having a hard time.
          I have been getting alot of chest pain since the start of my h ea, it was daily for over a year, now not so much, but it has been back, so when I can actually feel like I can move further than my front door, as well carrying sick two little ones, I will attempt seeing a dr. It has been a trying week.

          • strengthrequired

            Your a lovely person blue. Cyber hugs

    • dave

      Hey wounded,be ready for a long ride full of ups and downs with her jumping back and forth. It will take her a while even after the EA stops for her to snap out of it. She is keeping in contact because she is in limbo right now. She has no idea if either her EA or you are going to work out. She has probably put a ton of effort into making you the bad guy. She also has the AP telling her that you are sooooo bad and he is soooo good. She also probably told her parents and some friends that you make her so unhappy to justify the situation to them. They do this to ease the guilt that is eating away at them while they are neglecting you and your family. It took mine a long time to realize what she was doing and that it was HER decision’s and lack of morals that caused this. When she finally quit blamming me and took responsibility for being selfish our relationship started getting better. The bad thing is that it takes a long time for them to realize this.

    • WoundedHeart

      Dave, Thanks for the insight. I kind of am seeing that happen. I will admit that when she does contact me and is nice, I am hopeful. Yet know she is continuing to break my heart. I had to come to terms that she will be going back and forth.
      Interesting enough, the OM wife works in the same building as I do. Coincidence really. We each had looked each other up since we had suspicious prior to DDay. I was the one who confirmed it to her after my wife confessed. She wasn’t as shocked since she had suspected already. Needless to say, we do keep ourselves informed of what is happening. We both are aware that they will continue to fall off the bandwagon unless firm boundaries are set. I am working on mine and have most of them set. I don’t see her and work through our children’s day care as a way to exchange our children. That way I don’t have to see or communicate with her. One will drop off while the other can pick up. Unfortunately for the OM wife, she has not set boundaries as she is more concerned about the newborns, which is understandable. She did finally follow through on an ultimatum she threatened with in telling his parents. Needless to say, they are not happy with him and the situation he has put the family in. They are orthodox.
      Her father and brother know and they are not thrilled either. I was happy to get support from them and not feeling like an outcast. There were a few family events on her side that I went to and felt so alone. Her father and brother figured out what was happening before I talked to them. They approached me. Can’t say the same for her mother as she did the same thing many years back. She will start to feel alone as both my wife and the OM has neglected their friends and family.
      There were many things that happened in our marriage that I feel contributed to both of us not remaining connected. Birth of our children, stress at both of our work, not taking time for each other, etc.. Just found out that she is deficient in vitamin D which affects her moods. These are all excuses and by no means reasons why either of us did not take action to save our marriage.
      To be honest, I never really thought about what they are telling each other about their respective spouses. It is not that I don’t care, just never pondered the thought. Now I am at a point that it isn’t worth thinking about since I know that she is using me as a false reason to justify her actions. She needs to look at herself before looking at others. That is what I did. Hard lesson to learn.
      I know that I need to be patient and doing the best I can. The hard part is waiting. It has been frustrating that you as the BS cannot shake them out of the fog and have them take a long look at the destruction they are doing. It is up to them to come to terms. Yes….time will tell. I am only slightly one week into our separation and she has been contacting me more, just not deep conversations yet. From what I am told, he is struggling with the pressure of his family and his continuing to lie. I don’t know how someone can do that and know the difference between reality and fantasy. This will be a wild roller coaster ride, yet not one I would want to ride on. And I like roller coasters!

    • Gizfield

      dont know about anyone else but I want to kick this other man’s ass myself.. He needs to be home with his wife and babies. That he is not is just completely disgusting. He is even worse than a cheater. He is just a crappy wanna be human.

      • WoundedHeart

        I agree! I was astonished to hear how he checked out of his kids life like he did. I know many of us on here have children from what I read and cannot fathom how a parent would abandon the innocent. Especially when I found out that he was the one pressing to have kids early. It has been hard to keep my mouth shut about him when talking to his wife. I had to learn to not let him control my life and let him go all together. Not an easy task as it haunts me from time to time.
        She did say that he is starting to engage with his kids and plans to go to Synagogue on Saturday. So maybe he is turning around.

        • strengthrequired

          I hope he is turning around for the sake of you wounded and your family, as well as his w and babies.

      • strengthrequired

        This om is a sorry excuse of a human being, those poor little babies, his poor wife. He should be at home with his w.

        Wounded, Hang in there, as Dave said there are going to be plenty of ups and downs, a long ride. Fantasy land is a wonderful place when you can go there and escape the real world, but eventually the real world catches up and the fantasy comes crashing down.

    • Gizfield

      I remember how hard it is to have one baby, not twins, with a supportive husband. I cannot imagine having twins with a cheating ass husband. I cannot imagine what this poor lady is going though. No ONE DESERVES THAT! The police ought to be able to escort his ass to his house and to work and he should not be allowed to go anywhere. No phone, no internet, just work and his responsibility as a father. Jack ass.

    • strengthrequired

      Giz, it’s hard enough your right having one newborn baby, need alone two newborn, this man shows us that he is scared of facing upto his responsibilities as a father and a husband. He is showing every woman out there, that he is not a reliable person, he is not a real man. Real men face up to their responsibilities, they don’t drop them.

    • Devastated

      I am in the same boat trying to figure things out. While I am not married my b/f and I have been together 10 years. His ea began on facebook (not unusual I know). However the woman is married. I think this is finally over but not sure if it is really over this time. I found out about the affair 2 weeks after it began, yes I am that quick, but only 2 weeks into it I have been helpless to do anything about it. Most of their affair has been through texts, some phone calls, and have only seen each other twice for about 5 minutes apiece due to distance. His parents live in the town she works in and he stopped by her work on breaks. It is supposedly done this time because she is terrified I will tell her husband (who must be a dope because they are averaging over 10,000 text messages a month). Does he really not see her texting constantly? Well I have been mulling over telling her husband and the only reason I haven’t is because they have three kids, but I have become a little more selfish lately thinking “why should I care more about her children than she does?” There have been instances where it has stopped, but then she will contact him to “apologize” for causing so much trouble between he and I. I told him that was bullshit because if she was sorry she would stop causing trouble and she was using that “apology” to get him to talk to her again. So I guess I am looking for advice during this “lull” to make sure it is over for good! If he loves me he will understand if not, then he can just get out of my life and stop doing this.

      • WoundedHeart

        Devastated….you are correct. If he truly is done, any attempt from the OW would not be responded to. If he feels compelled to respond, he should include you in responding. That way the OW knows you are in the know.

        It is sad what CS will do to a family…dragging them through havoc for their own selfish needs.

    • inthedark

      My H and I have known each other for 17 years and been married for 11. He had an EA/PA affair with a co-worker since a year ago (I don’t exactly know when). They’re in two different offices in two different countries and only met four times (as far as I know). We have two young kids. He’s not felt sorry for his infidelity. He chats with her on a daily basis and now wants to leave the family and kids for her. He moved a couple of months ago from the east coast to the west coast for his “career”, as he claimed, and comes home one week in a month to see kids. He cares much about them. If he can enjoy the time with kids once in a while and talk with them briefly every day through an online app, I don’t see him lose anything. He wants to file the paperwork and live with her. Nothing can stop him if he can continue doing what he does to kids after the divorce. I feel so frustrated, depressed, and stressed. He wants both his “love” and kids. He’s so self-centered. What should I do? I really need everyone’s help.

      • WoundedHeart

        How long has it been since you found out? Emotions are high and fragile early on. Though I do not place any blame on those who have been cheated on to move on with their lives….I do find it sad how quick divorce is entertained. My issue is that time is not being taken to discover what prompted the affair. Both parties will move on without knowing what to really learn from this experience and to prevent from happening in future relationships.

        My W wanted to file right away when the affair was revealed. Part of the issue is that she did not want to face the fact that she is wrecking havoc on our immediate family, friends, and co-workers. It has a ripple affect that reaches beyond what one really thinks. The sad thing is that for the most part, people do not stand up for decry this foolishness. We have come to a point to see it as acceptable behavior. Just look at today’s entertainment. I find this extremely sad and I am concerned of the impacts it has on our children.

        I wish I had the answer for your question. As I am going through similar events. My W still wants to file for divorce. She is still in a relationship with the OM. Sadly, the OM and his wife have completed their divorce (about 3 months after DDay). I think it was a reaction to quickly implemented…but everyone moves at a different pace. My W gave me time to work out things but she is misunderstanding my intention for time before filing. My intention is to at the very least but the affair on pause with no contact and spend six weeks to try to work hard on our marriage. If there is progress…then let’s continue. Otherwise, I would bow out. The problem is getting the CS to agree to something like this. Ideally if you want to save your marriage, your CS will have no contact. Notice I said ideally. As many stories on here have shared, their CS stumbled again and again.

        The advise I can give you is to work on yourself. Do things for yourself that makes you happy. Remember, only you can control your happiness. Other people do not define you. Do not give them the power to do so. Easier said than done….I know. I feel like a marshmallow around my wife which I am sure she finds real attractive (sarcasm).

        How old are the children? I am not suggesting to have the children engaged in the process at all. My concern is that this IS going to have an impact on their lives. You will have to be prepared for that. The CS will not recognize this. It is unfortunate. Be the rock for your children. Be the example. Show them that you have morals and ethics.

        Give yourself time to fully grieve as well. You need to be clear minded to move forward. It may take some time to get there. Just give yourself time.

        I do hope my suggestions find comfort for you. This is not something you deserve to go through (nor your children for that matter). I am still on my journey and wish success in yours.

        • inthedark

          WH, thanks so much for taking the time to reply and sharing your story. It’s been four months since I found out. My kids are 8 and 5. They are such happy kids that I really don’t want them to live in a fatherless home. I’ve been trying my best to save this marriage because of my love for him, our shared history, and my intention of protecting kids from being mentally hurt.I’ve told him about the negative impact divorce would have on kids’ growth. He thought it would not happen because he still cares about them. How naive. Anyway, I will keep trying, but I often feel very discouraged by his being cold, stubborn, and unreasonable.

          By the way, I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

      • Doug

        inthedark, Thanks for sharing. What should you do? In my opinion there isn’t much you can do. You can’t make him do anything, he has to figure things out for himself. That may mean that you have to let him go/kick him out. It’s such a shame that the kids have to be dragged into all of this as well.

        • inthedark

          Doug, thanks for offering your opinion. I read about your and other people’s stories on this web site and feel so jealous that many WS like you have realized their mistakes, apologized to their spouses, and found their way home. How I wish my H could do the same. I’m happy for these couples who got back together and made their marriage work. But for myself, I have not seen the light at the end of the tunnel….

          Doug, I really appreciate your and Linda’s efforts of putting together all the thought-provoking blogs. This has become my go-to site when I look for support and encouragement.

          • Doug

            inthedark, Thanks for the kind words. Please remember that you are fairly early on and a lot of things can happen yet. So don’t give up! Stay strong and as others have said – take care of you (and your kids) first.

    • Rachel

      Inthedark,
      As others have said, you need to take care of yourself. If at all possible try to go to therapy as well as your children.
      A good book that I found helpful is Runaway husband by vickki stark. And visit this site as much as you possible can. Come on here to vent or ask a question. The support and guidance will help you tremendously.
      You are in for a very long road. Some days you will feel hopeless and others the strength will lift you to the next step. But remember you are not responsible for this situation .
      Good luck and stay strong.

      • inthedark

        Rachel, thanks a lot for your reply. What you said is exactly how I’ve been feeling. I always put the family needs ahead of my own and have never taken good care of myself. So thanks for reminding me and supporing me, which really means a lot for me at this time. Also thank you for recommending the book. I will definitely check it out.

    • Moving forward

      My husband of 14 years began texting a female church friend of ours, who is also married to one of his close friends. He went out one night, and I couldn’t get in touch with him. I had never checked our phone records before, but he was talking to HER and had been for a few weeks. My husband does not have a lot to say, and neither does her husband, who, for some reason, didn’t mind their “friendship”. (I guess less yapping for him to deal with.) But, she would talk to mine, and nothing was left for me. Over a 4 month period, almost 12,000 texts were sent. (Both have full time jobs and young children at home.) Needless to say, I was floored! Both told me to “get over it” and she griped to him about me “throwing that number” in her face. She even told me about a year after that SHE didn’t trust ME. WHAT?!?!?!?!? I’m sorry, but does she not realize what she did?

      Initially, I told him that I was going to get a transcript of the texts from Verizon. But, he threatened divorce if I did. Well, that statement speaks volumes. I didn’t get them, but wish I had, because having such limited information and my own vivid imagination is one of the hardest parts. We are all still married and still go to church with the other couple, which is sometimes difficult. But I’m trying to rebuild my trust in both of them.

      Any comments or suggestions? I appreciate your time!

    • jl

      It has been 1 year since d day I love you but he stated out texting 70 pages of text messages and giving me the dreaded speech. Things got better but he wants his cake and to eat it to. It seems it never stops. My children all three of them have been hurt. We all live in fear waiting for daddy to leave. He says they can never be together because of the family. Not sure if he means his or hers. She has five children all grown and doesn’t work. They barely knew one another in high school but she is convinced he is her soulmate. They lie all the time. He says he has no contact or they are fighting mostly due to jealousy brought on by too many Facebook selfies and then they pick up right where they left off and practice covert operations to avoid anyone seeing them communicate. Right when I think he is back in the marriage she starts liking his Facebook posts again. Evil they both are. So tired of this and sad. He keeps telling me it’s a slow process but I know the truth is if we meant anything to him he would stop. I wanted to stand for my marriage but I feel like it’s a joke. He no longer wants sex with me for a while he couldn’t keep his hands off of me. He says they never slept together but I don’t believe him. Hard to believe when he keeps lying. So confused. My head says dump him and my heart says stay. He said he has no intention of leaving this marriage and that he made a decision????? :/. What decision? How can we heal? Prayers from anyone for a solution.

      • Doug

        Hi JL, So sorry to read about your situation. Now, I’m not trying to offend you or anything, so don’t take this the wrong way, but could it be that he continues to behave in such a poor way because you’re letting him? Has he suffered any consequences for his actions? In other words, don’t put up with his crap anymore. Most cheaters (me included) will continue to do whatever they can get away with as long as there is no pain (consequences) associated with it. You might want to read this post where other readers address this type of situation: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/real-life-hardnosed-advice-on-how-to-stop-an-affair/

        Best of luck to you!

    • ED

      Hi, I discovered my husband of almost 12 years was having an emotional affair June of last year when I discovered the cell phone bills. Only to find out the EA he was having was with my friend who is also my next door neighbor. The betrayal, the lies, the hurt, has completely destroyed me. When I confronted him he told the same old story that every CS says “we are just friends, what is the big deal, I will not stop talking to her. Although I explained to him and her that I felt uncomfortable about the amount of time they were speaking neither one of them cared and continued to speak more frequently. The OW is also married and has 2 children. My husband moved out Feb 2015 and became more distant then ever before. However, he still continued to call me on a regular basis and never stopped contact with me. He would tell me he loved me and cared for me but was not in love with me. I knew the EA had become so powerful and that it had completely taken over him. He neglected me, his family, kids, job but yet nothing could make him stop. He continued to deny anything was ever going on, but I knew he was texting her and living in a world of secrecy, but when I would confront him he would push all the blame on me and tell me I was crazy. The pain I have endured is beyond anything I have ever felt. Sleepless nights, anxiety attacks, significant weight loss, and uncontrollable crying spells. But yet, I would find the strength to lift my self up and push through another day. I will admit the days have gotten better. He finally admitted to me that he has feelings for the OW, but he does not want to have them anymore and that he wants to spend his life with me and move back into the house. He says he loves more than ever and that I am the most amazing person and he would be a fool to let me go. BUT…he said he needs 2-3 weeks to completely close the chapter with her so he and I can move forward on reconciling and saving our marriage. I love my husband more than anything but it is very difficult for me to live next door to this woman and have to see her every day. It is so painful.

      Doug, I know it is a slow and gradual process letting go of the EA, am I doing the right thing by giving him the 2-3 weeks to completely end the EA? He says after this period we will be together. He is calling me more often and we are getting along, and he is telling me how much he loves me and is talking about future plans together, or am I fooling myself? Can we even save our marriage knowing this woman lives next door?

      • Doug

        ED, Woo…tough situation indeed! I’m sorry that you’re going through this! I know how a CS could think that it takes a 2-3 week process to completely end the EA as I did the same thing, but looking back, I don’t think it was necessary or fair to Linda at all, and I’m sure it just added to her hurt, anger and resentment of me. I think that you are being very kind and gracious in giving him that time period and it shows that you are trusting and putting faith in him, but I have to wonder why he feels he needs that time. On one hand you are extending a gesture of goodwill which could potentially help with your marital reconciliation, but then you are also taking a bit of a risk with your own mental well being, recovery and healing. I guess in the end, you need to do what YOU feel is right for you, knowing your husband and your neighbor as you do.

        Sure you can save your marriage even though she is next door. It’s going to be more difficult because of that I feel, and eventually you may want to even consider moving. There is something else to consider as well, and that’s letting your neighbor’s husband in on the secret, which will probably piss your husband off entirely.

        Best wishes in whatever you decide to do.

    • gizfield

      Great advice, Doug!

    • Melissa

      Definitely agree. Just give it time- and if it’s meant to be (which is no consolation if it isn’t), things will get much better. My H and I are getting there and seem to have built a more solid relationship, and we communicate better and seem to be more in tune. This said, I cannot lie and say that I have forgotten his EA, I still get lots of ‘will he, won’t he, what is this about?’ warnings messages in my head but I try to ride the storm. Recently, I found some old messages to his affair partner on a ‘phone we’d had ten years ago and resurrected for a holiday abroad (“I’m waiting outside'”, “I’m at the pool”…). I’m sure he doesn’t know they were still on the ‘phone and I deleted them. I was surprised that it didn’t quite break my heart as I thought it would but I could think ‘ OK, this was the past, this is now, this is the future ahead of us but even if the future’s not to be, now’s OK’. So please, take care and let’s hope the future for you and your husband is bright.

    • PLEASEHELP!!!

      after 2-3 years, I finally got the concrete evidence that there has been an affair going on with the wife and the other man who is still married… The wife is becoming a good friend with the married man’s wife which make me sick!! We have been separated and I have been going crazy in my mind for years.. and finally I was so right all along about the affairs between the wife and the other man… it makes me sick that the wife is using my daughters friendship with their son… Now I have the evidence and HOW should I expose it?? should I give it to the other wife?? and announce it on their facebook?? What should I do?? I’m terrified of the outcome… I know that I will keep my evidence with me forever!! Also, we re in the process of the divorce.. and nothing will change..

      PLEASEHELP!!!!

      • Helpfull

        Pleasehelp. You have a very delicate situation here.
        #1 do not expose your children to this in any way. The less they know the better it will be. They are innocent to all of the this and should stay that way as long as they can. They did not make these choices, your wife did. If you did, you will be looked upon as the bad person. I know from experience, that if they are 10 or older they know what is right and wrong by this time and will figure it out on their own.
        #2 Exposure, if you have a talking relationship with your wife, you should tell her only how you feel and what you know. Tell her this is wrong. She knows already, but probably is so deep into the fog that she has know idea what affect it will have on everyone. Only expose your feelings to her. Also talk to a therapist if you can see one. Remember, you cannot change people, places or things. All you can change is yourself. Be positive and do things for yourself and your kids. They are smart, they know what is happening. Believe me, if you are seeing what is going on , a lot of other people see the same things. They will see changes in her and her actions. Eventually, some else will know what you know and it will be exposed by some other means. This way you will not look like person looking for revenge or payback. In the end it won’t mater. It is what you do in the present and in you future for you and your kids. Remember, we have no control over things, there is a plan for everything.
        #3 Clarity Tell the truth, tell someone other that you wife, how you fell, how your hurt, cry. Its ok. we have all done it. Talk with your pastor, therapist or divorce support group. Read this website and all other information on Infidelity and relationships. It will help and you will feel better.
        Revenge or Exposure is not the answer. It is only a temporary thing and will back fire. Stay strong for yourself and your kids.

    • KP

      Hi all,

      I came across what I think was an emotional affair that my husband was having with a work colleague. He kept their friendship a secret, lied to me about when they saw each other, text frequently, emails, phone calls etc and even well thought out gifts.

      So I have seen all this, he says she is just a dear friend. I actually am not sure if she knows he keeps their friendship from me. But I would have thought she would think that their behaviour crossed the lines of normal friendship??

      This is only new. I found out 3-4 weeks ago. Since confronting and discussing with my husband he understands my feelings and decided to cut off all ties (even though they are heavily involved in work).

      I am so confused about my feelings because it wasn’t intentional, not romantic and I don’t think she knew. BUT he did.

      Today he called her and said they need to cut ties. I don’t how or what else was said. However, tonight this lady (who is also in a long term relationship) has sent a email to my husband but directed at me asking for an apology and saying that the situation is ridiculous. She feels she has been accused of adultery (which I have never said) and ended her email with “this is a stupid situation”. I have never met her and don’t want to. Do I respond to her email or just stay out of it?? Never thought I would end up here. Any advice is welcomed.

      • Miley

        Personally, I would ignore her email. Agree, I too never thought I would end up here .. sigh! ;-(

    • Miley

      We’ve been together for 17 yrs. We are THE COUPLE everyone wants to be like, we agree to disagree, we talk openly and honestly, even when we may not like what the other has to say, we’re always told that people love “the look” we give each other and there is a true and deep love and admiration there for both of us. We’re not jealous of opposite sex friends, we don’t fight over money, we both share household chores, etc. THIS is how we have been for 17 yrs !

      7 weeks ago, I went on a trip to a friends wedding. When I returned, I dropped my bags at the door, rushed to my husband and hugged him tight. I told him I missed him so much and never wanted to be away from him overnight again.

      My husband, Jake half halfheartedly hugged me back. I was shocked at his reaction and asked him “What’s up”? He said he didn’t want to hurt me, but he didn’t miss me.

      He then said that he loved me, but didn’t think he was IN LOVE with me anymore and that when our lease is up in 9 mths we should consider going our separate ways!

      Needless to say, I was in shock, I didn’t handle it well, I screamed NO, fell to the ground, started hyperventilating and crying hysterically. I reminded him that he was my best friend, the love of my life, my soulmate .. he just stood there with blank eyes!

      I asked him WHY and he said he couldn’t answer that.
      He said he didn’t want to talk about ‘working on the marriage” working this out, ” staying together” nothing .. he had made his decision. He basically wants us to live separate lives as we focus on getting bills paid off.

      I reminded him that his decision affected me too and it wasn’t fair that he not want to discuss it with me, try to work it out, nothing ..

      (3 yrs ago, we had a devastating family issue that ended up nearly bankrupting us, we had to sell our house at a huge loss and cash in 401K …. but we got through that together, just like we always do – Additionally, he thinks I’m there too much for our adult kids, and I have agreed and told the kids that they are adults and I was focusing on “me and dad and getting a house again” … I will always be there for my kids, but not get too wrapped up in their lives, that it takes focus away from mine and Jake’s goal to save and get a house)

      I mean, honestly in 17 yrs we have not had any relationship issues, family issues YES, life issues YES, trials and tribulations YES .. but never relationship issues, never the traditional arguments over money etc. .

      I got this bombshell 7 weeks ago … 8 weeks ago we were looking at houses and planning our future. We had just celebrated our anniversary and we’re laughing and joking. Chasing me through the house, tickling me, just like we has always been. Then I went out of town for a few days and it’s like someone flipped a switch on this incredible amazing man I married and our lives are forever changed!

      Even after he told me this, we continue to have an amazing physical relationship. He woke me up twice last week just to kiss me, then we fell asleep in each others arms. When he thinks I’m asleep he will rub my back, kiss my shoulder, hold me, etc.

      What I now know is while I was gone he went out with friends. These are folks he plays games with 1 day a week. I don’t go with him and don’t know these people, just know they are younger people and it seems that one gal in particular seems to be involved in an emotional affair with my husband.

      I have seen countless texts from them, they have gone hiking and to movies over the past few weeks.. I have seen them together, and they seem like “just friends” in person .. I mean, they don’t hold hands, touch, walk too close to each other .. nothing a couple would do.

      And their texts go back and forth between just chatting and more private info sharing, likes, dislikes, but the last text I saw that my husband wrote said “I’m trying to get a feel for how things are between us now vs before” … Her reply was a SMILE.

      So, I KNOW this is escalating but I also know that he will go without seeing or talking to her, he is home right after work, and I know it’s not physical.

      When I confronted him about all these texts a few weeks ago, he said she was “just a friend” but I know he is lying about where he goes when he has gone hiking or to the movies with her, because I followed him and saw them together.

      I did something stupid .. called her the other night at 3am from husbands phone.
      I was freaked out about his message .. I was angry and I wanted answers he wasn’t giving me. She said I had nothing to worry about because “they broke up” …

      Then she told him I called her … and he reacted by cancelling my credit cards (on his accounts) He threatened to leave, but we talked a bit and he said he would hold off until we get the bills paid down and more money saved. I told him what she said about them ‘breaking up” and he said he doesn’t know why she would say something like that unless she was just trying to push my buttons …

      I love this man with all my heart, he is my best friend and my soulmate. He has been an amazing husband, and we’ve always been a great couple .. until 7 weeks ago.

      I am willing to weather this storm and pray we come out of it in tact … but HOW do I get him to SEE what’s going on here and what he’s about to lose?

      Our family issue a few years ago cost us financially .. but we are at a place now, where we could get a house again when our lease is up. That has been our goal the past few years and we are close to reaching all our goals .. and he is just going to throw it away ???? for an EA ???

      HOW do I get him to see what he is doing? what we are about to lose?

    • Hockeynut

      I have been married for 28 years and my wife has had two affairs (that I know of) in the past three years. the first was an old boyfriend of hers. She ended that relationship with him almost immediately and we started to get close and intimate almost right away. She forgave me for my past(which was drug addiction) and I forgave her for her adultery. Everything was going good except that she remained friends with his sister. That did not sit well with me because I did not trust that she would not be talking to him while she was with her. I know the chances of her seeing him were slim because he was in Chicago and she was in New Jersey. But I never could tell if he was visiting his sister or staying at her house . Because of my wife’s needs to remain friends with her our trust rebuilding stopped and we grew apart again. It was a matter of about a year that my wife found another boyfriend. He gave her a phone and it was hard for me to discover them but I finally did by planting a recording device in the house. What a day that was when I listened to it on the first day. It was highly sexual and it hurt bad. I attempted to heal the relationship again but to no avail she was not responsive as a matter of fact she was coming up with reasons why we need to go slow. Without getting into the whole picture she remained in contact with him even seeing him on several occasions for the next 6 months until I finally drove 2 hours after tracking her to his boat and confronted him. He said she was not on the boat , called the police and the cops told me to get off the dock because I was trespassing and they would arrest me if I came back on. They would not even tell me if she was on the boat. What ass….les. I called my brother in law to come down and my wife came off his boat. I told her we are 100% done at this point. After the dust settled and I slept downstairs for 6 months and I we have not made any progress. She is making no attempts to get close to me which tells me she has not let go of him .I am not sure what to do. This site has giving me alot of opinions and direction. Its a collective guidance of possible direction. Ive been in NA and AA and know what I had to do to get clean. This site is giving me direction for me as well as her. Im hoping she reads this and participates in this site do get on the right path. If she wants me she has to be willing to do the work and visa versa.If we do not stay together we will both die broken hearted.

      • Untold

        Very sorry hockeynut. Your situation does not sound encouraging. You might try another site – chump lady.

    • Hurting

      Just found out about my wife’s EA last night. I really don’t know what to do. She says it’s only been a month, but not sure. Says she will tell him it’s over, but it is her boss who is actually going to marriage counseling about his wife. We will be married 20 years in Aug. and have 2 boys 13, 10. I don’t know what to tell them, if anything, until her and I figure it out. Says it is not sexual but has had thoughts about kissing him. They just talk and text and she says she fells horrible. Don’t know if I caught it in the nick of time or not. Says she loves me and wants to work through it, but I don’t know if I can. I think I will hold it against her for the rest of our lives. I don’t know all the details and don’t know if I want to. Can anyone give me some advice as to what to do and what to expect. I, never in a million years, thought she would have done this to me. It really hurts…

      We don’t talk much about our feelings and I think that is what drove her. I am just hurt that she never gave me a chance to help her through her feelings. How can someone that loves you go outside first. If she had told me what was bothering her and I didn’t act on it I could understand a little better. I am numb…maybe I need more time to think things through…I just don’t know if I can get over that what we had is gone. I guess I have to wait until she ends it to see if she is intent on fixing us. Maybe it was just an infatuation and the thing we needed to get our marriage going again. Maybe I am reading into it too much. Just don’t know. Any help would be awesome…Thanks…

    • Myrna

      I’m trying to process my husband’s EA of 18 months. I’m working on saving my marriage of 39 years (40 this December,) but I struggle with anger/rage rising up again and again.

      Sometimes I feel like I’m losing my mind. I don’t like the person I am becoming. I am approximately 3mos post DDay – and still reeling. Some days I can hardly breathe. An affair was something I “knew” would never happen to us. It completely blindsided and devastated me. I am stuck between immense grief and rage.

      The OW was an old flame who lived 2500 miles away (otherwise, I feel he would have met up with her.) I discovered it by finding emails and Facebook messages saved on an external harddrive. I was searching for a slideshow I had made of our son’s wedding when I discovered it. Lucky me.

      She sought him out on FB and it went from friendship, to “what if,” to “love,” in only a few months. It even progressed to sexual pictures and a video – which I discovered while trying to get to the truth about the length and depth of it. Initially, he said it was only a few months, but when confronted with the truth (and desiring reconciliation) he sat down and wrote me a timeline and divulged all of it. He is very remorseful – and has given me access (and passwords) to his email, phone, and FB account. Honestly, it feels kind of like closing the barn door after the cows are out…but I still want/need transparency in order to rebuild trust – if that’s even possible.

      The affair lasted from March of 2009 to September of 2010. I saw texts from times he was with me – and was stealing moments to text her. He would tell her that he would call soon because he “missed her” and he “loved her.” Others saying “it’s torture not to be able to talk to you everyday.” Also FB messages where he’s texting her telling her, “’M’ (me) is asleep in the next room, but I just wanted you to know I love you and I’m thinking of you.”

      Initially, when I found out, he said it was a long time ago – but he doesn’t say that anymore. He knows that for me, it’s still new. Here’s another kicker, he stayed facebook friends with her until 2016 – after I discovered it this past January. He actually asked if I wanted him to “unfriend” her. Really?

      We had been going through a lot at that time. We had lost our business of 15years, had gone through our 401Ks, and were about to lose our home. He was feeling like a failure. He tells me it was an “escape” – and I believe him. The thing is, I was going through the same thing he was going through – and I never sought comfort from anyone but him. I am beyond heartbroken.

      I never pursued a career – I was a wife, helpmate, and mother…and now a Nana. I never regretted that until now. I was happy with my life. My kids adore me, my grandchildren adore me…and he says (that even then) he adored me. I know the failure was his, so why do I feel like my life is a colossal failure? Just knowing he was capable of such deception makes me feel that I was not enough. I know he was hurting then, but so was I. One huge slap in the face was that – even as he was telling another woman he loved her – he was telling me that, “as long as we had onto each other,” we would be okay. The duality is more than my heart can stand. It doesn’t help to know SHE was the one who ended it. In all that time, he never felt enough love for me – or guilt from his own actions – to end it.

      We had so many mutual friends who admired our marriage – admitted they envied it. We have spoken at our church about keeping your marriage strong…and staying in love. I can’t help thinking about how cards from our married children have always included “thank you” for the “example” our marriage has been to them. All our years together, and we still held hands and had long talks and easy conversation. My husband was my dearest and best friend – but how can a best friend do what he did – and stay there for 18months with no conscience? How could he allow himself to fall in love with someone else, let alone get into our bed every night, hold me and profess his undying love and devotion?

      Our counselor assures us we can come through this stronger than we ever were, but I don’t believe that. I know I will never feel as safe with him as I did – even when he was doing this. He was my “safe” place – my refuge when life was falling apart around us. I believed that, why wouldn’t I? He always said what a blessing our marriage was. I had no reason to doubt him – and every reason to lean into those things with my whole heart. I feel like part of me has died.

      If anyone has any suggestions as to how a 58year old woman can survive, let alone, get through this, I’m open to suggestions.

    • Strengthrequired

      Myrna, it is a huge blow to the system, when you find out about your spouses affair. The pain can be so overwhelming, and you wonder, how do you recover from this. When my ch was chasing around after his ow, I feel t the lowest of low, I had no idea how I was going to get through it, or even how I was going to keep my family together. The amount of lies told to me, were many, it became hard to know what was truth and what was a lie. He would profess his love for me, then continue his affair with her.
      Each time a lie was uncovered, it was another step back, and another blow to my heart. I stayed as strong as I could for my children, and of course for my ch, as he was in a bad place too, yet I was alone as well in my grief.
      Then one day I found here, my refuge from all the insanity. A place I could share my thoughts and feelings with people that understand. Let me just say, it’s a bumpy road, there are highs and lows, good and bad days, an emotional roller coaster ride.
      So what I will say to you is this, understand this was not your fault, you are not to blame.
      You need to start looking after yourself, start doing things that make you feel good about yourself. Remember, that it takes a while to get past what has happened, there is no timeline on how quickly you should feel better. Many of us here still have our trigger days years after dday.
      So be kind to yourself.
      There is one thing I’m glad for you, is that your ch has told you what you need to know, and has given you passwords etc. I still have no passwords etc from my ch. I envy you there.
      So although you feel the way you do right now, let me say this, it gets better, the pain will ease.
      Come here and post to get things off your mind, and read the old bogs too, and you will see, you aren’t alone in your grief. There are some wonderful ladies and gents here, that know how you feel, and as they have helped me getting me as far as I am today, with their stories, their humour, their sadness, they will help you too.

    • C Leann

      It sucks to have this pain, and still have this pain a year after I found out about my husband’s EA. It was in another country. This woman met us through a media exchange program and were visiting the US to see how US newsrooms function. We had dinner together as a group, but I noticed my husband kept bringing her up in casual conversation. I really had NO reason NOT to trust him, as I have in our 27 year marriage. He would NEVER cheat on me. He chatted with her regularly on social media, which didn’t bother me at the time. HOw was i supposed to know he was falling for her? She had a good job, no kids, no husband, traveled all the time. My husband just turned 50 and was going through a mid life crisis of sorts…always obligated to someone whether it be family, job, kids blah blah blah. Always making ME feel like he was tied down and couldn’t do what he really wanted to do with his life. Of course he conveniently forgot I gave up my career for 10 years to raise kids and move to a new state with him, with no family around, but it’s all about him. Anyway, he was chosen to go to Kiev with his co-workers to observe their newsrooms and how they gather news. I was all for it, he never traveled out of the country, but I didn’t know the feelings were growing for her. The last night he was there he facetimed me at 3 a.m. his time, 9 pm my time. He looked VERY nervous, his eyes darting around the hotel room, he was VERY uncomfortable. Red flags went flying in my mind. My gut telling me something was very very wrong. I pick him up at the airport the next day. He’s a little distant for some reason. Two days later I knew something was just not right. I signed into his Facebook and there, he and the other woman started chatting about ‘going down this emotional path.’ He said he was sorry for doing that and he needed to work on his marriage. I broke down, i felt like I had been punched in the gut so hard. My heart pounded. I became weak. I have never ever felt such intense pain in my life. He had an affair. That was it. Our marriage was over. I confronted him which of course he became angry I poked my nose in his FB page. Tough shit. This is OUR marriage. He said it was a misunderstanding and I asked if he slept with her. He denied this and said he and her were walking the streets of Kiev and holding hands (oh sure just a sign of friendship right?) they talked all night and even went to her apartment. yeah, that old chestnut. Deliberately invite a married man into her apartment. He said nothing happened he just sat on the couch while she retrieved something (obviously wanting HIM to make the move) Both deny they had sex. i believe him, he broke down and swore he never did have sex with her but he kissed her. Why would a married man kiss another woman? I was devastated and couldn’t deal with this. I was so hurt and felt betrayed and wondered what her motives were, and are. The group came back to the US in July and it was HELL. I wanted to punch her face in. I had to endure lunch, dinner and shopping with her. It SUCKED, but she’s best buds with his boss and his wife so I had to keep my mouth shut or it would mean his job and perhaps hers, which I didn’t give a shit about. We had so many arguments and she tried to explain but Iwasn’t having any of it. He wanted to go back to Kiev in Sept. that year for the last exchange program. As much as I hated it I told him that was up to him, he would have used that against me if I told him he couldn’t go. I’m not his mom he needs to own up to his own affair. That week was hell without him, was he with her? Was in he in bed with her? What???? He swore nothing happened but that didn’t keep me from monitoring his wherabouts. I hated the person I was becoming…desperate, sneaky, tracking conversations and emails/chats etc. he was doing this to ME. They are still in touch to this day, but he used secret email accounts (which I found out and he has since deleted) and they think I am the one with the problem and that they are SOOOO denied talking like they used to. What kind of man searches on Facebook ‘in love with wife and another woman’ a cheating one that’s what! I confronted him on that. He said it was never love it was an admiration, or crush if you will. I say bullshit. He has feelings for her still and is in denial. He says it is no different with his other female friends weve known since college. BULL. It IS different. He will never stop contacting her and now he is interested in learning something new that will eventually lead to him traveling and working for her company (theoretically, but it’s expensive) She is putting thoughts into his head and manipulating him to do something to give him more freedom to travel like she does and possibly seek more time with her. I’m so tired of all this. He says I’ve beaten him down so much he isn’t sure he wants to stay married. Buddy you made that choice when you developed feelings for another woman. I don’t think our marriage can be saved as I have no trust in him whatsoever. It is an emotional affair, nothing less. He feels way too much of a connection with her and she manipulates and says shit about me and that she is always available to him when he loses hope. WTF? he says he is not interested in a relationship with her (Ha!) but he will continue to talk to her. I cannot stop him, but I am taking steps to lessen the burden financially. I am beginning to take control of my finances so I can learn to live without him. I simply am not accepting this friendship. Period. She thinks she has the upper hand but I”m always a step ahead of them in every way. I have ways to find things out and ways to monitor their conversations. I have to protect myself and my kids who are getting older and more independent. I will always have them by my side and well, he is being manipulated by this woman to do things to get him away from me. She cares nothing for our relationship or our kids, she has no respect for our relationship and the fact we’ve been married 27 years. He is nothing more than a conquest. Her goal is to split us up so he can have the ‘life he wants’ away from responsibility and obvious suffering at the hands of his crazy wife LOL. I have very few friends who know and they really help me with this but man I could use some outside advice that I’m doing the right thing. He has someone ready and waiting for him once we divorce and I don’t. I don’t have a single male friend that I can lean on or talk to. I’m at the point where I love him but I’m not in love with him anymore. The kids resent him which is his own damn fault, but it’s clear the one person that has always mattered to him was himself. HIS goals, his dreams, his career came first. But I have a great job and can go anywhere, I’m taking control of MY life again and doing things for me. He wants his cake and eat it too. My consolation is that the bitch is 7,000 miles away, and anytime she sets foot in the US, I know about it and can monitor the situation. I can only imagine how many married men she’s fooled and how many relationships this manipulative bitch has ruined. She’s not even pretty, if that matters, it’s how she pulls him in so she can show him how great it is to not be tied down and be free. Having a marriage and a family is not being tied down, it’s my LIFE. Feels good to write this down. He plans on seeing her later this year. We shall see what THAT means.

    • Rach

      Why is wrong with the month of AUGUST? Why is it so horrifying for marriages? It has been more than a month since my D-Day (August 7) and I have literally been poring, researching and reading anything and everything that I could to help me cope up with my husband’s EA of five months. What has come up a lot of times in these materials is the fact that most BS discover the affairs in AUGUST. Whether the comments were posted as early as 2006 or as recent as yesterday, a lot of BS have stated that their D-Days were in August. Damn!

    • Angela

      Linda says she could only “accept and forgive”. Bless her, she has a sweeter soul than me.

      I didn’t begin to accept or forgive crap until I heard him start examining his own motivations and actions. It was the only way I could guarantee no recurrence of such nonsense. Til then, I had to helicopter whatever situation he was in and whatever situation I was in because I couldn’t trust him to maintain boundaries/control of anything until he started seeing where and why he screwed up. It’s nearly killed me, and he knows if it happens again, I no longer have enough body weight to survive a flu, let alone another betrayal. He HAD to see what he did to me before I could turn inward and work on my self-esteem. I have to know he has my back while I’m vulnerable. That has just been the process I’ve had to take for me. Pride or ego, I guess. I really don’t know, but no forgiveness started happening until real remorse and introspection became apparent and my forgiveness (at least for now) is still revoke-able, based on how much care and concern for my pain he is showing at the moment. No care and concern for a few days leads to another showdown between us. When he has gone on with life like nothing ever happened and actually expects me to be present and happily participating in stuff even though I feel like dying, then he is being a selfish prick and each day that goes by like that, I get more and more pissed until I meltdown.

      There’s no excuse for forgetting you made your spouse want to die. And there’s no excuse for not making sure you heal that wound before you have the privilege of forgetting it’s there.

      Is that just me being prideful and not wanting to let him forget what he did? Because he says that sometimes, but I truly feel like if he’d just take every opportunity to make it up to me, that our relationship would resume itself in full-bloom. We are a great couple with a deeply bonded friendship and even at times since the EA, I can still have moments that I feel great love and excitement about him, but I swear he has to be apologizing, remorseful and empathetic night and day to get me there. Once I’m there, he acts like it’s all good and goes about his business again as if triggers and memories and thoughts aren’t working on my mind around the clock.

      I told him this last time – this thing – this thing you did, this thing you gave to me – it works against you night and day in my head, and I can fight it to some degree, but if you aren’t fighting it with me, I’m all alone with the monster you unleashed on me. You’ve left me alone with this monster long enough, and I’m not going to fight it anymore. I can’t. I’m at a sickly weight and I barely make it to work daily, let alone anything else, so if you don’t want it to take me away from you, you better get in there and go to war with it, because it has defeated me. I can’t fight it for both of us anymore.

    • Alli

      I couldn’t read all of the comments, many of the one’s I read, reminded me of my own pain.
      Doug’s response to Alice in April 2011 (of the comments)..kind of set me off. I realize it was 8 yrs ago, so no jumping down his throat now.
      But I don’t understand how a person (since both sexes cheat) can justify an affair even after it.
      I have been in a relationship with my husband for 25 yrs., married for 22 & sadly, for the majority of the relationship he’s cheated, with multiple women at the same time, a few were local so the chances of physical affairs were high with them as I know he saw at least 2 if not all 4.
      Telling him i wanted a divorce about 8 yrs ago, only changed him from being a walking time bomb into being a monthly or bi-monthly time bomb. But it didn’t stop his affairs, it did bring back his suicide threats for a while, until I had had enough & told him if that’s what he was choosing to do, that he had better make sure they ruled it as an accident, because if he screwed our kids out of his insurance benefit’s, I would be hard pressed to spend any money for his funeral, his mom could pay for it (that’s another sore subject). So, his threats stopped after a while. But not his affairs.
      He knew that it was starting to affect me physically/medically, he didn’t care. Not enough to stop.
      The closest we got to a divorce was him sleeping on the couch, which he complained about for years. After about 8 yrs he has the bed & room to himself & I sleep on a roll away type bed, as we bought a new house (my goal solely for our kids to give them something they deserved for years). The fall of 2016 he FINALLY (supposedly) stopped his emotional affairs…supposedly. As he’s still secretive & I’m sure he’s figured other ways to keep from being caught this time, as #’s don’t show up if you use messenger & with them offering a “secret conversation” how are you suppose to find the proof?
      He thought I should have been happy & dancing for joy & everything go back to “normal” within a week, maybe a month after him “stopping” but after 19+ yrs, how do you?
      Initially, he blamed me for his choices, but after he finally broke down to have a paternity test 14 yrs after bringing a pre-teen from hell into our lives to help the now adult figure out where they belonged (not that it made a bit of difference). It proved that he has a pattern of having affairs, not just emotional, which even though I figured the kid was his & for their sake I hoped, but I didn’t want to believe it. so when I got the results back, it spun my world & flashbacks, anxiety, you name it hit.
      I told him this was proof that he’s been unfaithful before me, so it’s not a stretch to know he’s still like that.
      He’s always refused to want to talk about it ……. then or now. “He doesn’t live in the past, doesn’t want to go back there, it does no good.”
      He’s right. It doesn’t do any good to go back to relieve the years of pain & turmoil he’s caused me.
      But at the same time….how do I heal? For years being accused of having affairs, when I always had our kids (or his pre-teen), I barely saw my family. My life consisted of grocery shopping, taking care of a young kid, a toddler, a pre-teen with a whole slew of emotional issues due to their previous lifestyle, the mom’s stupidity & shock of new culture, new family & life, plus having a baby who had jaundice, & not thriving initially….ALL on my own. I was always accused of not supporting him (the list is long), not being there for him, not loving him (cause I didn’t say it every waking day I guess). Yet, I took on everything while he switched jobs, went to school full time, worked full time, went out of state with his mom to bury a Grandmother he never talked to our spoke kind of. The only thing I asked from him was to take the trash out as he left for work. But I was at fault for everything. I am far from perfect & forgive me for not wanting to be fondled in front of our kids in front of a hot stove just because he came home in a good mood for once. (I could probably match it up to one of his affair conversations).
      I don’t think I can ever trust him or be in love with him again. I’ve had enough pain for 3 life times. I have been a stay at home mom/wife for 22 of the 25 yrs we’ve been together, if not 23. I don’t have any money of my own, so I’m hosed on leaving (which is why I haven’t yet).
      I have livestock that I’ve tried to make money with (worked until he complained so much & interfered), so now with our new place, I am going to try again. I have 5 yrs before our youngest turns 18. I doubt a miracle will happen to where all the pain & mistrust disappears & we fall in love again. And I don’t believe he’s “faithful” at all & if he’s not……I don’t care anymore. I am going to keep focusing on the kids & on me. I know now how to live with & deal with a Narcissist, so I just have focus on me healing.
      No one, in their “right” mind, can feel no guilt for cheating; physically or emotionally. Because not only are you harming your spouse/kids, your also harming the person your having your affair with. Because they’re only going to be your cheerleader for so long, before they’re going to start making their own demands. But you can justify walking away from them too, easier in fact I’m sure.
      I know I can get rid of this turmoil, as when I set my mind to buying a house for my kids…it took almost 2 yrs., but I did it. So, I know that my stubborn pain in the ass self will kick through the cement wall that it got buried behind & she’ll come out better then ever.
      Forgiveness frees us by taking back our power from their control. I have forgiven him for his affairs, because I don’t care if he’s still having them or if he goes back to it. But I don’t think I have fully forgiven him for the pain he caused me, otherwise that still wouldn’t bother me.
      But I’ll get there.

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