Often the reason stated by the cheater for having an affair is that their need’s were not being met.   Whether their needs were met or not is not a justification for infidelity. The fact is the cheating spouse screwed up big time when they decided to get their needs met outside of marriage.

No matter what is given as the reason for the affair, it’s in the past and it can’t be undone.  But to move forward it will be important that you both know what each other’s needs are – both emotional and romantic – so that each of you can begin to work on fulfilling them right away.

Was neglecting of needs stated as a reason for the affair – or at the very least – the deterioration of your relationship?

Have you had discussions with your spouse about each of your needs since the affair?

Has there been improvement in the satisfying of each other’s needs as a result?

 As always, please respond to each other in the comments.

Thanks!

 Linda & Doug

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See also  Discussion – What Was Your First Date Like?

    55 replies to "Discussion: Infidelity and Satisfying Needs"

    • M girl

      Hi I need to askfor help. If you discovered the EA before you got married, would you have reconsidered marrying your husband/ wife? I’m asking becausemy fiancé due to be married this year had a EA and PA over the last few months. I discovered it 2 wks ago and I’m absolutely devastated. As I’m sure you were too. So if you knew what you would have to go through, would you still have decided to get married? Thanks for all your help.

      • roller coaster rider

        I would definitely reconsider. I am sorry as this has to be so very hard, but it sure doesn’t look good for the future if he’s messing around now.

    • InTrouble

      This is my first visit to your blog. I am coming off of a one year emotional affair with a man 15 years younger than me. We met at work and we talked and went out to lunch, etc. Like all of these affairs it eventually led to email and secret meetings.

      Several months ago his wife found some of the emails and called me. Then she threatened to call my husband. I confessed to my husband. Naturally, he was hurt. Our affair ended abruptly – he has 2 small children and I would not ever consider leaving my husband (we have been married 20+ years, I thoroughly love him, he is very generous to me, and he adores me).

      I can’t get into all the details here (it would take forever), but so much of what we (me, my husband, and the other couple) have all experienced has already been expressed on this site.

      My main stumbling block at this point is getting it out of my head. He has left work (forced to by his wife), which has been very hard on me. I find myself hanging around the grocery store hoping to run into him (and just the other day I did, which was very very hard).

      I saw a counselor, but she was awful (or rather, she thought I was awful, lol). I have another appointment next week with a different counselor…

      Anyway, clearly, there are things in my marriage and my life that aren’t satisfying me. It’s pretty hard to resist the attention of a younger, very sexy man.

      I don’t mean to sound heartless on this post. This has been a hugely damaging and painful event for all concerned. A real mess. I want it to end, but I don’t. If he called me right now I’d go see him, and vice versa, even though I know what a HUGE mistake that would be. Somehow I have myself convinced that I can sneak this but still stay happily married. I think his wife hired a private investigator (it wouldn’t surprise me), as I saw a man taking a picture of me and my car in the grocery store parking lot, so the stakes are high.

      I so wish this was out of my system, I can’t tell you.

      Anyway, thanks for the blog, it’s interesting and depressing.

      • B

        Your screen name seems to say it all, because you are indeed in trouble. I am a husband who has a wife who has been doing this same thing with a younger man. Without casting blame or telling you that you are wrong, I would simply ask this: Do you really know what love is? You say that you love your husband dearly, that he adores you, and that you wouldn’t consider leaving him. Then why would you drop everything and run to this man? Try to think of it like this: This younger man who you say would come to see you right now is married with a child. That means he is VOLUNTARILY breaking a committment to his family for you. That means he thinks so little of you as a human being that he wants you when it is convenient for him but is willing to leave work because his wife asked him to. Both he and you are caught in between two worlds. It sounds to me like you are still in the fog and not wanting to come out just yet. I’m sure you have heard this before, and I’m not saying these things to be harsh, but my wife continues to tell me she loves me, but won’t let go of this other person either. It has been devastating and I don’t know how much more I will let her put me through. Your husband may be feeling the same way. I say decide what you want and be honest. If you don’t make a choice soon, you may wake up one day and he will have made it for you. Affairs happen to people and they become weak, find your strength and do what is right for you because until you fix your priorities, you will continue to hurt the people you love, and even if that love is unconditional, they will only take so much before they just quit. I wish you luck, and just like I wish my wife figures herself out soon, I hope you do as well.

      • suziesuffers

        This is like an addiction, you love the way you “feel” when you get attention from this man. Like you said, , he’s a younger sexy man and in your mind this boosts your self esteem….and rushes that dopamine into your brain, just like a drug addict. A druggie will risk their children in bad neighborhoods in order to get in touch with their dealer and buy their drug to make them feel good. You’re going through withdrawal to the drug in your brain….not withdrawal from love, but from a DRUG. And just like a druggie would give up everything for the drug….even when they know it will eventually destroy their life, they still take one more hit….thinking they can “manage” the use of this drug and still maintain a “normal” life. It NEVER works. So yes, you NEED counseling to work through the withdrawal….and to determine what you can do in your marriage to ignite love….true love, not the imaginery infatuation drug induced trance you’re in. I hate the addiction of the affair and the pain I’m going through after 2 years since D day…..There isn’t a day in my life that the OW doesn’t enter my mind….somehow….somewhere. The more the druggie “uses” the more he wants……so you are going through withdrawal and want to “use” by getting the rush of seeing or talking to him….the more you prolong the “use” the longer it takes to withdraw.

    • Paddy

      Interesting. We are almost 6 months from d-day of my wife’s affair and also right at one year of when it started. 3 months ago I said him or me and she reluctantly agreed to no contact saying she did not want to break up the family. Things were pleasant but not close for a while and then recently the affection returned, but I have also discovered that contact with the OM has resumed. He lives very far away so there is no in person contact but there have been a few text exchanges and at least one phone conversation over the past 3 weeks. My wife has always maintained that she wants both relationships and it’s obvious she wasn’t ready or able to give it up. She does not claim that he is just a friend, she says she loves him but she also loves her family life and is not looking to replace me. I think she really thinks having both relationships could work and she does seem happy these last few weeks and outside of the OM I would say our relationship is in fact really good. But of course it’s not an acceptable situation for me and the question now becomes do I try to build on the good things and ignore the contact and hope it runs its course and goes away, or do I make another demand of no contact? Either way it’s amazing how much more calm I am now than the first few months. I am actually thinking this through without crushing emotions… so that’s something.

      • So Sorry

        Dear Paddy- I was the one who had the affair in my relationship- with a man who was supposedly my best friend.Even after the PA was over-I selfishly wanted to remain friends/keep in touch w/the OM- I truly only wanted to be friends at that point,because I desperately wanted to make my marriage work- I love my husband—and frankly that’s my point to you- You two CANNOT move forward if your wife is keeping in touch with the OM- How can she expect you to trust her again? Its funny,my H wanted me to stop talking to the OM,and the more he insisted,the more I wanted to stay friends w/him [and his wife-she knew about our affair- but was ok w/it-long story]—when he finally said,ok-be friends if you need to–That’s when I realized that staying in a relationship w/the OM is completely selfish.and ultimately only hurtful to my H. How could we move forward when I was staying in touch w/the person who my H most reviled??? I wish you 2 so much luck in getting past this– but my advice to you is that you MUST tell your wife to stop all communications if you want the healing to begin.So that you can focus on yourselves….if she can’t give him up-then she isn’t over him—— Take care

        • Paddy

          Well I can tell you for certain that she is not over him, nor does she even want to be over him. We spoke again on the weekend and she admitted to calling him. She says her feelings have not changed, that she loves him and also me. She feels she can be in love with 2 people and it could potentially work if society didn’t decide on different and ‘unnatural’ rules. She does say she understands that it doesn’t make me feel good so can’t work for us, although I think she still hopes it might.

          She says she doesn’t want to lose her family or relationship with me and I think is agreeing to no contact but not because she wants to. That’s where it gets confusing – I feel like maybe it’s better to say just go for it with him and hope it runs its course rather that trying to force an end that just makes her long for what she can’t have. Maybe she needs the opportunity to understand on her own that it isn’t worth it. Especially if she’s going to carry it on in secret anyway (although she says she will not).

          • So Sorry

            Hi Paddy- I totally understand about not wanting to “force” an ending,being afraid that it might make your wife want the OM even more, “forbidden fruit” so to speak, – I used to think the same thing,that I was in love with two people,Why couldn’t I be in love with two men? — Hindsight is always 20/20,but I realize now that I wasn’t in love w/the OM,I was actually in love with the newness,and the “happiness” of the relationship.Things were bad at home,and I was happy when I was with the OM. I was really wanting the connection and closeness that I had [and now have again] with my H,and I simply found it somewhere else. Of course every situation is different,I don’t know why your wife is unhappy at home,why she is searching for that “something else”- but I can definitely tell you that she HAS TO cut off all contact w/the OM,and want to,in order for the 2 of you to move forward. Whether you give her an ultimatum or not,is totally up to you,but I would think the longer she remains is contact with the OM,the more resentful you will become,and the harder to start healing and move forward.Her wanting both is really just selfish[have your cake and eat it too]and I really hope she sees that soon—-I wish you luck

            • Paddy

              Thanks for the thoughts So Sorry, I totally agree with you. I too hope she sees it soon that the selfishness is destructive. But as you say she needs to want to and right now she is convinced she can have her cake and eat it too. But her feelings for me seem to be returning and I really don’t think she has any intention of leaving, so it’s just a matter of do I wait for her or push the issue. I don’t think I can stand it if she starts secret contact again, so while I plan to stay I will withdraw and get on with my life as best I can. I am working out now whether I should say go ahead and I’m going to get on with my life and you can carry on with him but at least make it not in secret, or just say nothing and see where it all goes. I’m leery about making a demand of no contact again. I think I’d rather come to my own decision about whether I’m ready to withdraw emotionally and then she can decide if she wants to try to reengage with me or not.

    • roller coaster rider

      I agree wholeheartedly with B here and have to say that you will only go from bad to worse, InTrouble, if you don’t wake up soon. The pain you have put your husband and the other man’s wife through is so devastating; I can’t imagine you really acknowledging your role in all this without wanting to walk away forever. What you wrote on May 19th’s post makes me think the communication in your marriage is not close and intimate as you need/want it to be and that is what you should address if you want to be fair to your husband, who as you say, adores you. Maybe you should just be completely truthful and show him what you wrote today; it’s dishonest to make him think things are fine and you’re completely devoted to him and to the marriage if, in fact, you are not.

    • InTrouble

      Thank you, B, for your kind words. I hear where you’re coming from, believe me. I like your statement about finding my strength. I have to think about that.

      I don’t know how many people on this blog are the cheaters vs. the cheated on. I know everything that is wrong with how I think and what I do. I am acutely aware of it, in fact. I am not actually a bad person in general. But there is something SO WRONG with my brain right now that I can’t describe it.

      On the other hand, I will try to explain it:

      It’s like a drug that I can’t stop wanting. For me it is not about love, or what kind of a person he is. It doesn’t matter one bit to me whether or not he “respects’ me. I don’t care about any of those things. I don’t care about his wife or his kid. (There, I said it.) They simply don’t matter to me. I have no illusions that I will somehow “end up” with this man – I don’t even want to. It is highly sexual, and that’s it, but that’s a lot.

      For those of you struggling with a cheating spouse, all I can say, is don’t trust them. They are out of control. They aren’t in their right mind. If you suspect they are still obsessing about the other person, or communicating with that person, they are. They fundamentally believe that they can have their cake and eat it too. Their brains are screwed up and nothing you can do will fix it. It’s not about you. They don’t MEAN to hurt you, they have disregarded that. There’s a ridiculous and incredibly stupid part of their brain that thinks, let me just finish this affair and then we’ll be back together all hunky dory.

      His wife wanted to blame me for the emotional affair. “Women like you!” she kept shouting. She doesn’t understand it isn’t me taking her man, it’s her man who has psychologically checked out, and nothing SHE can do will fix that. It has to come from him. And it has to come from me. I know that.

      • Melvin

        InTrouble,

        Are you in counseling or considering it ? Sounds like you have a physical attraction that is drawing you towards him. Realize there is evidence that EA’s, if left to grow, can lead to PA’s.

        I truly believe CS’s have affairs because of selfishness. As you mention, DW likened the EA to a drug. The more attention she got from him, the more she wanted. And she initiated a lot of the contacting. When she accepted No Contact, she did mention that she had withdrawal symptoms. In fact, just 1 month after NC, his milestone birthday came up. She so wanted to call him – fortunately her best friend knocked some sense into her.

        Here’s hoping the fog lifts and you can wean off the drug that is possessing you.

      • B

        Well, then you have done the first step, you are willing to admit that you are acting out of control and that right now you don’t care about anything other than yourself. That is why I said you need to find your strength and discover what you want. My wife has said many times that the guy she has been “friends” with is an arrogant ass. That he is never someone she would want to have as a husband or as a lover. She says that she knows she takes me for granted and she doesn’t want to do that anymore.

        She has agreed to no contact, but it took me calling him and telling him to back off. I had to tell him that we were on the verge of a divorce and that he was atleast contributing to the demise of a family. To this day she maintains nothing physical has ever happened, but he is 25 and I’m sure as fun as can be. Like you said, when cheaters start, they lie about everything and don’t come clean and start acting right until they feel it is time. She says they think alike, they have a lot in common. I simply said so do we, too bad everything we have in common is based on love, responsibility, and comes with work. I consider myself a good-looking guy and am sure I could walk into a bar tonight and find someone who is 10 years younger to screw around with, but I consider myself a grown-up and have a deep love for my wife. That is why I am still here, that is why I read these posts, that is why I haven’t kicked her butt out and filed for divorce.

        It is a very lonely, very sad feeling when you can’t believe anything that comes out of the woman you loves mouth. In most cases affair run their course, but much like a tornado, they leave destruction in their wake and don’t apologize for any of it. I guess I am interested to know from you, why do people who cheat want to remain in a twisted lifestyle? What are you hanging on to your husband for? What is it that keeps you from leaving him so you can explore every option and live the way you want? I’m asking because I’ve tried to understand why my wife doesn’t just leave us and have her fun. I’ve tried for months to figure it out and can’t. It has to be more work to maintain two relationships, it just has to be.

      • blueskyabove

        InTrouble

        5 Short Chapters on Change

        Chapter 1.
        I walk down a street and there’s a deep hole in the sidewalk. I fall in. It takes forever to get out. It’s not my fault.

        Chapter 2.
        I walk down the same street. I fall in the hole again. It still takes a long time to get out. It’s not my fault.

        Chapter 3.
        I walk down the same street. I fall in the hole again. It’s becoming a habit. It is my fault. I get out immediately.

        Chapter 4.
        I walk down the same street and see the deep hole in the sidewalk. I walk around it.

        Chapter 5.
        I walk down a different street.

        You can find your strength. It’s inside you.

    • roller coaster rider

      You have given us all insight that I appreciate having. Thank you.

    • Saddenned

      InTrouble,

      It is a very interesting perspective. It is so hard to believe as the BS that it is not about us when the first thing the CS does is blame us.

    • Morrigan

      Was neglecting of needs stated as a reason for the affair – or at the very least – the deterioration of your relationship?

      No, that is what makes this part difficult. He clearly stated to me that it was nothing I did or didn’t do and that he was happy with our relationship, nothing was wrong with it. Toward the end of the EA I asked him what she had to offer that I didn’t, his response, “absolutely nothing, she doesn’t even hold a candle to you” he told me it was all about him, his issues, things he had to know, but since they were friends (not long friends, about maybe 2 years) he had to know what he wanted. He told me he was weak, that she needed his help, and that made him feel good about himself, he wanted to pay the good forward. This is where I get angry at her. She knew he was in a relationship and I think it was inappropriate for her to ask the things she did of him. And he needed to learn boundaries.

      Have you had discussions with your spouse about each of your needs since the affair?

      No, not lengthy ones. I have made myself more attentive to his needs though. I recognized how I was soooo independent I didn’t put our relationship first and I really did take it for granted. I find the more I keep the relationship first, the more I realize the wonderful things about it and other everyday things in life.

      Has there been improvement in the satisfying of each other’s needs as a result?

      I do feel more satisfied, I am not sure about him, right now when I ask him if he is happy, happier or feeling about the relationship he gets a bit defensive and doesn’t really want to talk about it. i think he thinks I am going to go elsewhere with the conversation and that scares him right now. So I am holding off on relationship talk for a bit!

    • Candace

      M Girl, if you really have to ask that question you already know the answer.

      InTrouble, much of your talk sounds so much like my H. It took a threat of a restraining order from the OW and me telling him I wanted a divorce & I would be taking our child & moving before he fully came out of the fog. Wake up, I am sure you have a lot to loose!

      Needs were ignored for both myself & my H, which lead to a deteriating marriage with lead to his EA. Communication is key for us, but not always easy.

    • InTrouble

      Melvin – I saw one therapist who was no help what so ever. I have an appointment next week with another one. Diabolically, I completely understand this situation, and the forces that lead to it, I just don’t know how to end it. That is what I’m hoping to get help with. 🙁

      Everyone else – Thank you for your posts. They have given me a lot to think about. I feel pretty sobered.

      Please forgive me if I got this discussion point off topic.

      • Paula

        InTrouble

        Well done you for your bravery. I so know where you are coming from, my H was you. Hated what he was doing (before I found out) but couldn’t stop – totally addicted – but fully aware of how bad what he was doing was. he even said he knew during it that it so wasn’t worth it, the momentary high (which he says was never as high as he always anticiapated it was going to be) for the long, long low that came afterwards. Desperately wanting to stop it – telling her this, but keeping in touch, etc. And I get it too – I obsessed over this (post-discovery ) for SOOOO long, in a completely unhealthy manner, but I knew it was unhealthy, I was rational and forgiving, etc, in my head, but my emotions took over and I desperately wanted to stop the venting and overwhelming sadness, but couldn’t. Counselling is tricky. I tried LOTS, with breaks in between. Even hypnotherapy to try to get OW out of my head, for a few seconds, at least. Hopefully you’ll find someone who you can connect with soon. You’ll get there, the fog must lift soon – I think you are on your way to that now.

        Good luck, be loving, patient and forgiving of yourself, and your H – his journey is going to be a long, tough one.

        • Maxine6

          Paula,
          This might not be an important question, but did the hypnotherapy work for you? My husband had an affair 25 yrs. ago and I thought we have a wonderful marriage. I loved him so much and was devastated when I found out from the OWH as he sent me the love letters that my husband had written to the OW. It was a 3 yr. E/A, according to them and the Polygraph test they never had sex during the 2 weekends they went off on during that 3 yrs. He didn’t want to cross that line, he just enjoyed the extra, new attention. I know he was getting everything he needed at home and he totally agrees. She came on to him, he was 40, she was 34 married with 2 little girls. He enjoyed it and pursed it. I was so hurt and in shock that I tried to take my life twice and would have it hadn’t been for my 3 children and 2 grandsons. I tried hypnotherapy about 3 times and he could never get me under. I have a brain that never stops and now 25 yrs. later it’s all come back and is haunting me all the time. I don’t know if I should give hypnosis a chance again. I have no life as the thoughts of the OW and my H’s betrayal is just killing me inside. I am looking for a new therapist and counselor as I don’t like the last 2 that we both went to. I need medication for depression and PTSA as I was doing fine and then his behavior that started during the stock market crash caused him to drink more and thus more anger and he took it out on me verbally. This has been going on now pretty bad for 2 yrs. We’ve been married 52 yrs., I’m 70 yrs. old and I want to know what truly happened during the A and he doesn’t want to discuss it as he said he has put it out of his head a long time ago. He wouldn’t tell me the truth in the beginning, I had to see the OW twice and numerous phone calls and I still don’t know if I know the whole truth. I know the Polygraph cleared him of sex, but I still wonder if he didn’t do it because he couldn’t perform, either due to nerves or drinking on their first weekend. We have never been with anyone else, got married at 18, dated 2 yrs. before that. So the thought of him even being in bed with her just kills me. If he did have sex, their would be a divorce as I can’t handle that. Sorry, I got totally off subject, forgive me. It’s just a bad time for me right now as my life is falling apart as I can’t stand not knowing what totally happened between the two of them for those 3 yrs. I do know that she felt he loved her and his letters sure say so. He swears he never stopped loving me, but I’ll never believe that. If he truly loved me, he wouldn’t have taken the chance of loosing his job, our marriage, his children, etc. Just pray for me and let me know about the hypnotherapy. Thank you, Maxine6

          • Paula

            Maxine6, no, the hypnotherapy didn’t work for me – it is a funny thing – hypnotherapy isn’t what you think it is – you usually don’t “go under” it is really supposed to be more of a way of “opening the pathways, relaxing you.” Didn’t work for me, and I tried for probably about 4-5 sessions (minimum) – I have one of those brains, too, dammit! I think you just have to find a counsellor, or some info that starts to make sense, they are not all as good or as bad as one another, and what works for one person may not for another. I am still a work in progress, I have seen lots, but not for almost three years, just saw someone new last night, after a long break from it all, trying a different tack. The most important thing for me, is that I have to find me properly, the old Paula, that fiesty girl who was fiercely independent, but had to adapt to fit my family and new role as partner and mother, find what my bliss is, outside of this relationship, I have to rebuild a whole new way of healing my life. The affair, and him are obviously material to who I am today, but I have to find a way to be content with me, and the choices I continue to make as life moves forward. I know you are talking about a whole lifetime, I am only talking 25 years of my 45. I hope you can find some peace, as this is a time of your life when peace is important, living well every day. I say this easily, but I know nothing of it is in the slightest bit easy – love to you x.

            • Maxine6

              Hi Paula,

              Thanks for sharing your story of the hypnosis. It’s awful how an affair can change so many lives, especially the betrayed. I would give my arm if I could get my old self back before the affair happened. It changed me so much, just like it did you. My confidence, my inner happy self is no longer there. I don’t trust myself in decisions anymore and I sure don’t trust anything my CH says. I trusted him with my life and he put a knife in my back. I don’t think he still gets truly what he did to the real me. I would love to be happy and smile all the time. I have totally forgotten how to feel anything. The only thing that makes me happy is seeing the smiles on my grandchildren’s face and being with them. I can’t say the same for my 2 daughter’s as they aren’t speaking to me hardly at all, which is very sad.

              It’s strange and unbelievable why a husband who’s suppose to love you can do this to you and me. It’s so hard for me to focus and find myself and get out of this depression. It’s so hard to find the right therapist to either give you medication to help you get out of the black hole that you find yourself in and also a psychologist that understands the pain that you feel and find a solution for you to make your way through it. I have been through so many of them in the past 2 yrs. and I hate to start looking again, but I’ve got to. I don’t know who I am anymore, except that I am angry and sad, both at the same time. I find no pleasure in life at all.

              Forgive me if I haven’t read your story, in fact I haven’t written mine yet since I joined the higher healing group. I’m not sure if you are still together, separated or divorced. I so wish I had done the later when I was your age. Yes, I know their is such a difference in our age. It’s hard for both of us, but it might be harder for me to separate at 70 yrs. of age after 52 yrs. of marriage. If my CH could only see the real kind of man he is and has been all our life and acknowledge it, instead of me bringing it up when I see something on TV that validates what he didn’t do during our marriage and maybe that’s why things happened, but he won’t. I just give up and I keep saying that, but I turn around and do it again. I just want to know why so bad and understand who he really is. I just know that I don’t like the man that I married, now that I’ve taken a good look at him and back at the life that I thought we shared.

              I hope you find yourself and peace also. You are so young and if you have any doubts about your future, you are so young and have your life ahead of you. Blessings and love, Maxine6

      • crushed

        InTrouble I have to say my husband is like you he was addicted and even after a year of no contact as I thought, he went to see her. I now believe he had to have had contact with her in the last year to go and see her again in Jan of this year. Than in march of this year he tried to find her online but didn’t have contact. I found 8 quarters on his dresser and asked him where he got so many quarters from (since he is home and is retired) he lied and said at the post office. I am thinking that he is calling her on a pay phone at the mall but I have no proof. My question to you is do you think I should call her my self and ask her if she could just be honest with me and tell me if he is contacting her. Believe me if she would tell me the truth and he is contacting her he will be all hers. its a deal breaker for me. So what do you think should I or shouldnt I???

    • Melvin

      Yes to all three questions.

      The key ingredient in the recipe of our repair is more face time. Date nights, outdoor walks alone just the two of us, heart-to-heart discussions on weekend mornings in bed. And electronics off during these times. When you are alone with your spouse and both are focusing on each other, all the unnecessary crap seems to disapper.

      I know, easier said than done.

    • Candace

      I just found a house key among the bags of my H things from when he moved back home. He has denied knowing what the key is for. He denied all along that it was a PA, only EA. My trust is gone & now I don’t know what to think/do. Do I contact the OW’s H & meet him to compare the key with his? Do I let it go & believe my H? How do I find out what this key is for? I think I will have a copy made of the key, then leave it lay out in the open. If my H removes the key that should tell the story. I am in such shock, we have been making so much progress.

    • InTrouble

      No, don’t bother.

      You already don’t believe your H.

      You already know what it’s a key to.

      I’m so sorry, but I’m just calling it like I see it. 🙁

    • InTrouble

      Let me try that post again:

      “Do I contact the OW’s H & meet him to compare the key with his?”
      No, don’t bother.

      “Do I let it go & believe my H?”
      You already don’t believe your H.

      “How do I find out what this key is for?”
      You already know what it’s a key to.

      I’m so sorry, but I’m just calling it like I see it. 🙁

    • Teresa

      I have to agree with In Trouble. You know in your heart what that key represents. ” Liars Cheat and Cheaters Lie” It’s a rule I’ve had to live by for a couple years now.

    • cindy

      i have a question for you. My husband had an EA and we are working very hard to get past it. However; his sister is friends with the other woman and she (sister) will not speak to me at all . she insists that my husband is still unhappy . My husband refuses to say anything to his sister about this! He says I should just get “over it” . I have to see his sister at several occasions over the summer and I am not comfortable with this. Am I wrong? Or is my husband not telling his sister that we are happy because he doesnt want the other woman to know he is happy? please help

      • Candace

        I think your husband is probably not being totally truthful with his sister. I would try to get him talking to her with you present. The reason he is probably refusing to it because of the embarrassment. But if he is willing to fix your marriage he should be explaining things to not only his sister but anyone else too. My H has had a lot of explaining to a lot of people. He lost several friends too. The OW was a friend of both me and my sister. Not any more. We unfornately see her at various functions and do have to interact because of commitments made. You can feel the tension at these times.

    • So Sorry

      Hi -I have been reading the posts/comments- and I am searching for some advice.I would really love to talk to someone on the opposite side of the affair in their relationship— You see, I was the one who had an EA/PA- and without making a million excuses,My H and I were going thru some tough times,and I was struggling w/a head injury and depression.I had the affair with someone I thought was my “friend”- because I wanted to be “happy”- instead of dealing with the issues at home. NOW, I look back and I am disgusted by what I did. I never fell out love with my H,I love him,and we both want to move forward. Part of that ,of course, is dealing with “our issues”–the drinking,the financial issues—and we are doing that. The part that is difficult,is dealing with his anger. I am answering all his questions, trying to explain the best way I can WHY the affair happened. Sometimes,I don’t even know why. I almost feel like I was a different person then,I didn’t love the OM,and believe it happened because I was just looking for an escape at the time—Anyhow, we are very much in love,I can’t imagine my life without my H—-I just need to know how to help him heal—He says talking about it only makes him madder-because he can’t understand why I did what I did. He says just because we were in a bad place,is no reason to stray- and frankly he’s absolutely right. There is no argument. So how do you try and make someone forgive you for something that is really unforgivable. I wish I could go back in time,and have a do-over- but we all know that is impossible.—please, some words of advice from those of you in the boat– How do i help us move past this? Or should I say, we have moved past,we want to stay together, BUT how do I help my H heal???

      • Teresa

        Hi. I can tell you that I am in the position that your husband is in and it’s very, very difficult to try to get past the “Why???”
        The very first thing you hear after you discover the betrayal is that you are at fault for “insert whatever they can think of” and that’s why they did it.
        It’s not true and the BS needs to get to that point before they can move on. It is in no way their fault. The blame lays squarely with the CS. This is the most basic truth of an affair. Once they can understand that they can begin to move on.
        My husband had an EA/PA and then another EA. I found out about them from the OW in his EA. I guess he was trying to end it and she didn’t like that one bit. So she sent me copies of their IM’s. Wow. That was a day I’ll never forget.
        We’re at 6 months out from the EA and coming up on the anniversary of his PA. I’ve already told him that I’m having problems dealing with the memories. He said “What can I do to help you?” That made all the difference to me. Then he offered to take me away for the weekend so we could just be together, the two of us. Maybe I’ll take him up on his offer!
        The important part of this is communication. Until he can talk about the affair with you in a calm manner, he will not be able to get past the event. That is something he needs to do on his own.
        All you can do is answer his questions as honestly as you can, as often as he asks. Be patient. This is a long, long, long process.

        • So Sorry

          Hi Teresa-thank you-[and Melvin and Candace- I will write to each of you:)– I really appreciate the input–First and foremost,I suppose your point about TIME is the biggest–it hasn’t been that long for us-about 4 months- I NEVER told him that the affair was his fault-for us,it was really a toxic combination of things happening in our marriage all at once-I was horribly depressed,and saw my H as the enemy. I didn’t have the affair for the sex,it was really to be happy,get away from it all.The OM was a old friend from high school[mind you, I’m44] and he kept reminding me how happy I was back then,free spirited,free of attachments.I was so depressed,and unhappy at home,that I selfishly started the EA first,which led to the PA- I can honestly say that I NEVER thought of leaving my H-or even REALLY thought about the consequences. By the time “I got caught”,I had already ended the PA,but we were trying to remain friends—-Of course,after I realized how selfish that was too-I cut off ALL contact. Now-I am just so grateful that my H didn’t just pack up and leave.I look back and I am digusted w/myself.What was I thinking? So when my H asks “why”- I do try to be as honest,as complete as possible,without placing blame. I suppose my frustration is that I feel soooo bad that I hurt the man I love more than anything-and I can’t just fix it. There is no magic answer. There is no “why” that will make what I did ok. It was a horrible mistake and I suppose that time is really the only answer.- I

      • Candace

        Getting past the “why” is a biggie. After throwing all kinds of reasons at me & me justfiying them, & throwing some back at him, my H finally admitted he could not really say why he had the EA. I told him & am still not sure if I can live with that, but we are moving forward little by little. What I am finding is that he may say he does not know why but, as something comes up in our relationship, he will mention that before he was unhappy, confused or whatever about that particular thing or I will mention the same and we can then talk about it, I am finding out the answers to “why” this way. Maybe this will help you too. If you and H can make an effort to go forward then work on issues as they arise. We had one of these moments today…. we had to drive by the OW’s house and when passing by I looked over at my H and he was looking at her house, when I asked why he said it was habit. This hurt, he looked right by me to see the house and this hurts me. We discussed and yes it hurts, but I truely feel these situations are the only ways I will get any “whys” out of him.

        • So Sorry

          Candace–you are right– the “whys” are hard.Your H probably knows some of the “why”- but,its so hard to have that discussion with someone you love.You already hurt your spouse,the person you love most in the world,by having the affair-so you want to “sugar coat” the whys a little bit so not to hurt them anymore.And you don’t want to sound like you are blaming them. Its a really fine line.—-Granted everyone’s situation is a little different-but my affair basically happened due to depression,r/t to a head injury,and the toxic state our relationship was in at the time. It wasn’t my H’s fault that I had the affair,but we were BOTH definitely responsible for the things that were a problem at home.[money issues,intimacy issues,alcohol issues- alcohol was my H’s way to cope w/the other issues-] We had problems just like every other marriage-and instead of trying to work them out w/my H-I went to someone else for a little peace and happiness- so when he asks me “why?” its very hard to discuss the whys without placing blame. Again- he didn’t make me cheat,but he definitely was part of why our relationship was in a place that I would cheat. So- you see,very fine line….. In our case we are working out the relationship issues. I feel closer to my H than I have in years-The affair was a HUGE wake up call-for both of us,and in a weird kinda way,might have made our relationship even better. We are communicating again in a healthy way. But the “whys”- they are still hard- because I don’t know that ANY answer ever makes it ok—–

      • Melvin

        Hello So Sorry,

        My wife had an EA with her ex-fiancé from college. I can understand the anger and frustration your husband is experiencing. I thought I was doing all the right things to please her, going above the call of duty on several occasions during the EA. Although it was not a PA, they were heading in that direction.

        From this site, someone referred me to a short, inexpensive, to-the-point book entitled “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: a Compact Manual for the Unfaithful” by Linda J. MacDonald. I strongly recommend it. I ordered it from Amazon, read it and highlighted some text that really hit home. She then read it and we talked afterwards. We both found it to be a big help and eye-opener.

        Are you abiding by the “no-contact” rule with the OM ? That should be the first step.

        There is a saying I truly believe in – Time Heals all Wounds. It will take both of you working together to patch things up – it can be done but it will be a long and painful road. Fortunately, you have time on your side.

        Best Always.

        • So Sorry

          Melvin- thanks for your support- My OM was an old friend/boyfriend from high school- I reunited w/him on Facebook- BAD IDEA- I am no longer in touch w/him OR on Facebook. Getting back in touch w/people from our pasts,not always a good idea. Because I can honestly say that I NEVER would have had an EA or PA with a stranger,or someone that I didn’t already have a connection with. I was in a vulnerable spot,and he was there to “take advantage” of the situation. Again,the affair was MY fault,I don’t blame anyone else,but I never would have sought someone out. The fact that this was someone I already had a connection/chemistry with-well,——I don’t know if “who” we have the affair with makes any difference to our spouses-it’s all betrayal-are you more hurt or less hurt because it is someone from our past?
          My H always said that Facebook is a dangerous thing,and the past should stay in the past-and he was right!!!! What do we hope to accomplish by getting in touch w/old boyfriends anyway? so stupid..
          Thank you for the book suggestion- i will pick it up- and you are right- Time heals all wounds- I just need to be patient,and supportive—I just hope that one day we can be together and not feel “that presence”—we are sooo happy most of the time,but that “presence”is just there- Do you know what I mean? for me it’s the guilt, and for him,it’s the anger. Even when we are intimate,I often wonder is he thinking about the OM,or the affair…etc.. I can’t wait until THAT is gone……….. thanks 🙂

          • Melvin

            Hi again So Sorry

            Funny, my wife also re-connected via Facebook with her ex. Facebook bad. She was 3 months away from graduating college with her ex-fiance, 4 months away from getting married to him. He dumped her on Valentine ’s Day for her friend that lived across the street. He married that friend and later divorced. He is now single. We met a year after their breakup and have been married ever since (our first and only).

            DW can identify with most of your feelings. “So stupid”, “Regretful”, “Bad me”, “All my fault”. Like you, she was vulnerable and was feeling bad about herself. She pursued the EA and the clandestine meetings. At times I can see she is beside herself with guilt. With that said, we are doing much better these days. “Happy most of the time” as you state. Our marriage has been re-invented as yours will also.

            Sounds like you are both on the path to repair. Don’t beat yourself up too much – we are all human and make mistakes. Focus on the positives. Life is way too short – learn from the past but don’t live in it. The “presence” as you speak of, will slowly disappear. I know, all this is easier said than done. I hope I don’t sound too preachy.

            The book will help you rebuild the trust that was broken and makes up part of the “presence”.

            Best Always.

            • Roller coaster rider

              Melvin, I am confused about the acronym DW…sorry. Could you clarify? Thanks

            • Melvin

              RCR,

              DW is Dear Wife. So DH would be Dear Husband.

              I have been referring to my wife as DW – it’s my way of putting her in a positive light. If we are to repair our marriage, I need to do my part at treat her with respect. We both need to be pulling the cart in the same direction, KWIM ?

              Thanks for the question. Best to you and yours.

            • roller coaster rider

              That is a relief! For the longest time I’ve been thinking it’s Divorced Wife. Dear Wife is so much better.

            • So Sorry

              Hi Melvin– Thanks – your situation sounds very much like my H and myself. Facebook–VERY BAD-lol– He and I laugh about it now,becuase I have gotten off of all those kind of sites-and now see EXACTLY what he was trying to preach to me about dredging up the past. Trying to find ex-boyfriends,instead of dealing with the issues at home. It’s like when we are unhappy,we are searching for the”what if I had married that guy instead?” or [in my case] “I wonder what he grew up and became,?” STUPID– All that time I had a wonderful H and son at home. I honestly don’t know what I was even looking for. My OM had become a successful business man,became quite wealthy,huge house,nice cars—-I guess part of me was really impressed,and thought,gee what a great life he has,while we are struggling—REALLY STUPID,since we all know money does NOT bring happiness[as shown in the fact that he was also cheating]—-I suppose a small part of your wife wanted to know how her life would have been if she had married her ex-fiance-sounds like she never got closure-and meeting back up w/him when she was depressed,and he was available,just really really bad timing–Thats what happened w/my H and myself- ALOT of really bad timing– My H has been wonderful,and it sounds like you have been too. He could just have packed up and left,but instead he took responsibilty for the things in our relationship that sent me out looking in the first place. I am very lucky,and so is your wife :)- It’s all about moving forward, taking each day as it comes- and promising one another to NEVER let things get that bad again- take care

            • Melvin

              Hi there So Sorry,

              Wow, your path and DW’s are eerily similar. As you say, it was all so innocent, just checking up on each other. Being an ex, she still had feelings for him and wanted to know how he was. He can really schmooze with the best and helped console DW while she was struggling with self-esteem issues (bad timing). A lunch together (I knew about it), then other meals together (unbeknownst to me) followed by lots of texting and phone calls. He even offered her a free trip to Europe. She got “carried away” in the moment. Sounds like you did as well. And yes, I had to mend some of my bad behavior that got us in this DITCH (as I commonly refer to it as).

              Did you ever think of leaving your DH for your OM ? That was the longest discussion point I had with DW. How did she feel about her ex then and now ? Did she want him over me (hey, he was single and giving her attention and things I could not). I do have that feeling of “Presence” you speak of, and it is slowly easing in intensity. In fact, it is pretty much at rest these days. She is rebuilding my trust in her daily – I believe this is the final stumbling block to eliminating the “presence” entirely. Does DH trust you ? Her job is very social and she is around a lot of businessmen on a weekly basis. I’m not sure if I trust her enough around these men.

              I think you should re-name your handle to “So Lucky” or “So Happy”, maybe “So Glad”. It appears to me that you both are in a better place these days. Remember , positive thinking 🙂

              Best Always.

          • Doug

            So sorry, thanks for your insight. The presence is definitely there for me, but I believe it’s more from the wondering or worrying that he is reminded of her when he is with me. He is thinking about how it was with her. I wonder do you find yourself doing that when you are with your husband or have you been able to completely block that out of your head? Linda

            • So Sorry

              Linda- I wont lie-in the first few weeks after my affair was over-I would often think of the encounters,not so much while I was being intimate w/my H,but during the day-at those times when I would normally talk to the OM,email him,text,etc-After all,he was “my friend”-haha……As time went by and I could see the affair for what it was,[the before list,The “fog”-and then the after list]-and the OM for who he was,I no longer thought about him fondly. I won’t lie to my H and say the sex was terrible,because it was good,and telling him something else would just be insulting. BUT-it was never as good as the intimacy that my H and I share- it was just “new” and different,and exciting[like the beginning of a relationship] What I have w/my H is soooo much more closeness and love,and now,re-newed passion—-My H ,on the other hand,says he sometimes thinks about me with the OM when we are being intimate.All I can do is reassure him that HE is the person that I want to be with,and that OUR physical relationship is so much better than the one I had with the OM-on all levels. But that “presence” is still there,if I think he’s thinking about the OM-and I certainly don’t want to ruin the mood and ask.. So we talk about it after,and he says its getting less and less,as we get closer,and he feels reassured that we are moving in a positive direction. Ironically, our physical intimacy is better than it ever was.We are COMMUNICATING again,and our relationship almost feels re-newed since the affair. I guess it just takes time for that presence to go away— BTW-you guys have a great site here– its good to talk to other people in the same boat-it lets you know that you arent alone,and you can definitely work thru this…… thanks

    • kathy

      GET THIS my dear husband was a pastor at the time he was having an EA. He has never admitted that he crossed the line. I found out about the EA pretty quick into it. I found the phone txt. The pictures of sunsets and sunrises that they sent each other while he was on vacations with me. On his birthday, which is fixin to come around again, he had a scheduled lunch with her,I say scheduled only because he has tried so hard to make it all sound so innocent. A pastor being there for one of his sheep. He tells me the “Ilove you” and “I love you more than words can describe” was only one Christian to another saying I love you in Jesus name. I will change his name but tell me this. He had his cell phone to always end his txt with AGAPE, Bill. Well if he was already saying AGAPE,Bill then why would some say I love you AGAPE, Bill. He says he never did anything in secret. The txt messages were sent early and late in the evening while he was out on his ” exercise walks” only because they both enjoy God’s creation and while walking he thought she would enjoy seeing the beautiful sun scapes. He says it wasn’t intentionally done in secret. Yet he didn’t call her on the phone and talk to her while he was in the room with me. While we were on vacation and he was taking a “walk” yes they talked for 45 minutes. While I was waiting on him back at the hotel in bed? Yes.I even asked him later that very evening if there was anything going on with her. His response was she was just a friend that enjoyed what he did. It makes me sick to my stomach that he hid behind God and used Him as a scape goat. He was lieing and using God in the lie. He never admitted to the church what he had done, but then he has never admitted that he did anything except tell another woman that he loved her and it came out wrong. He resigned from the church stating it was due to his other job conflicting with his time he needed to be at church. Then added that he had not givin his family the attention that we( me and our daughter hat had just gotten married) and that was not fair to us. I ask to show me where he told all the other woman in the church the things he told her. To show me when he went to lunch with other woman in the church. To tell me what other woman in the church he swapped 65 text messages with in a 5 day span. Believe it or not I am trying my best to forgive him and get past all this but I can’t. I need him to admit it all to me. Why???? Why is it so important to me that I hear the words that I know are going to kill me and possibly end my marriage. Please tell me why. Somebody please!!!!!!!!!! Will it really make it possible for me then to put this all behind me if I have those words and answers to some questions that I have. He refuses to answer questions. He says that they won’t be what I want to hear and that he will not be humiliated like that. What about the humiliation that he has done to me. The really crazy thing is that I still love him. I hear God saying that I am to forgive him.

      • ppl

        after my wifes first EA, she did everything to reassure me but never admitted that she had EA. it was all innocent but then so was the next EA. if they dont admit error, why would you think it wouldnt happen again since it was “so innocent”. we were in councelling and book “not just friends” was recommended. i read it but after four months wife still cannot. i believe she is afraid to. time is not issue. has read many novels in that period of time. does not want to face issue and , I believe afraid to see what she did was unacceptable. councellors reminders to read the book were the proximal cause of our stopping sessions. errors that are not admitted are doomed to be repeated. the truth about ones actions can be difficult to accept.

      • roller coaster rider

        Kathy, I understand why you would need to hear him admit that he was unfaithful and having an emotional affair. It’s because that is the truth, and until he will actually acknowledge the truth it feels like you are playing cops and robbers and he is getting away with murder. If he can’t even be honest about what he was doing, then how can you have any sort of foundation for building a future together? I totally understand. He’s not sorry for what he has actually done, only that he got caught. That’s my opinion, and I want you to know I feel very sorry for the pain you are experiencing right now.

      • Teresa

        I will agree with roller coaster rider and ppl on this. If he can’t be honest about what he did then you won’t be able to move on. Not only that, but he will do it again. After all, he doesn’t believe he did anything wrong.

        • kathy

          I have really thought about that.If he tells himself and he believes he has convinced me that he has done nothing wrong then he will just tell himself that it is not wrong so why am I not continuing to do it again.He and my daughter talk a lot and our daughter doesn’t take any of his trash talking. She tells him when he is wrong. She has even told him he had better be thankful that i am his wife and not her because she would have NEVER ever given him a second chance nor would she have forgiven him for the rest of her life. It is.just another hurt..One more thing I add to the list of things that he will not do with me. I’m scared because lately the idea of being divorced and 50 does not seem so bad an idea. A year ago I was even scared to think about it. I still love him but this time I’m the one tired of living with someone that is only a room mate. Saturday i told him that it had almost been a year and i was ready to get past everything but there was something that I needed from him. August will be the anniversary of the month that I found out everything. I had been asking if we could get away for his birthday( he had lunch with the OW last year on his birthday). I was at home all day. He can’t say he ever asked me to go to lunch..So I had been constantly asking him to let me take him away for his birthday and he would not give me an answer. I told him I would not ask again. But the one big thing I asked him to do was if he would just show me some attention that is out of the ordinary. Something that he did not do as part of his routine. He got up and walked away for a couple of minutes saying that ” again he was not doing something the way that I wanted it. That what he does is never what I want or good enough for me.” That is his thing to do. That way he is throwing the blame on me and he doesn’t have to give me an answer either way. When he came back I gave him an example. i used his main job as the example. He gets a raise every year. He expects it. but if they came out of the blue and gave him a little extra just because, how would that make him feel?. He got the idea. i hate that my nights have turned in to staying up all night because when I sleep I keep having this dream that he tells me that he has tried for almost a year to work everything out but he has never quit seeing her the whole year and he is tired of not being able to see her when he wants so he just wants out of the marriage. He realizes how much he loves her and how happy and alive again he feels when he is with her. When I asked him last year why the whole thing even started he said that all i did was sit in my chair or lay in the bed and that to him I was dead. I did stay in the chair or bed. i have crippling arthritis, 2 total knee replacements, possible lupus, and just plain terrible health problems. It has been this way for a long time. It’s sad when one spouse thinks that after 30 years they can just clock out. That they have put in so many years and that they have done everything they are suppose to do and it’s ok. I truly believe that when we light our unity candle 30 years ago that what that said to each other and God was that no matter what it is we need. No matter if it is physical or emotional we made a vow to each other and to God that we will not go outside the marriage to get it. If we can’t get it from God or the spouse then we just will have to live without it. I wonder what he thought it meant. Thanks so much for listening. Kathy

          • roller coaster rider

            Kathy, I agree with all that Broken said and the way it appears to me from what you have written, your daughter is the one seeing straight through all the garbage. Until and unless your H can admit his wrongdoing and start showing you some respect and tenderness, he will just continue to justify and throw up smokescreens. I will pray for conviction…

    • broken

      Kathy,
      My Hubby had the EA and I HAD to hear every detail of what went on, when, where, why. I beleive that is mandatory for you to hear. We who are betrayed must be able to put back the pieces of the puzzle that was our lives while this was going on. Really there isn’t anything he can say that will hurt you more now because the knowledge of the affair alone is devastating. It is right and normal for you to know whatever it is you need to know and as much as it either hurts him to say it or he is denying what happened eventually he owes you the truth…all of it. People who are cheating use every excuse possible to make you feel like it was your fault. Reality…..there isn’t any when a person is cheating. It is a selfish act. I know right now your pain is so strong. It physically hurts. Your days and nights are endless struggles. In order to get past this your husband has to admit the affair, have no contact with the OW and answer your questions openly and truthfully. Healing wont begin without the truth. I wish you well. I know you can’t see it right now but the pain will ease. There is much work to be done and the road is long.

    • Chrysanthemum

      Kathy, until he admits his behavior was wrong, he has no intentions of changing it. What you’re hearing is an just an excuse to resume such behavior without consequences. It’s just lip service with a smile (actually, I call it holy hypocrisy).

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