Happy Wednesday!

Our discussion this week is going to focus on forgiving infidelity.

Whether your spouse has said they’re sorry and asked for your forgiveness or not, you may still struggle with the idea of forgiving their infidelity.  Heck, you may not even know at this point what forgiveness means for you, personally.

If you think about it, forgiveness is a rather vague term.  It can mean different things to different people, depending on your belief system and background.

Something you may ask yourself is should you forgive your cheating spouse, or should you not offer them the absolution of your forgiveness? And if they haven’t asked for forgiveness, what does it mean for you?

Forgiveness should be one of the milestones on your journey to healing from the affair, but please remember that ultimately it’s up to you whether or not you forgive your spouse – regardless of whether they ask or not.

With all this in mind…

What does (did) forgiving your spouse for their infidelity mean to you?

Has your spouse apologized to you and asked for forgiveness?  If not, why do you think that is?

Would forgiving infidelity release you from the pain you are feeling?

Remember to respond to each other in the comments!

Thanks,

Linda & Doug

 

    43 replies to "Discussion: Forgiving Infidelity"

    • Lizavette

      Hello Doug and Linda,
      I just started reading a book called ‘Forgiveness and Other Acts of Love’ by an Australian author, Stephanie Dowrick. It’s a tough subject. I guess I am hoping open my perspective on what forgiveness is, and how to forgive more fully.

    • roller coaster rider

      For me, forgiveness is a process, not a one-time event and as Empty and Numb recently remarked, it also includes forgiving myself. Interestingly, I heard a speaker relate some truths about forgiveness months before D-Day and I have referred to them time and time again. I’ll share them in the hopes of helping; Lord knows we all need to help each other in this journey of healing.

      Forgiveness is the only option to bitterness.
      Forgiveness is not approving or diminishing the wrong done.
      Forgiveness is not denial or waiting for an apology, nor is it forgetting or ceasing to feel the pain.
      Forgiveness does not mean there are no consequences.
      Trust is built slowly, lost quickly. Forgiveness is not trust.
      Nor is forgiveness reconciliation.
      Forgiveness takes 1, reconciliation takes 2.

      My spouse has apologized and asked for forgiveness. If he hadn’t done so, I don’t believe we would be on the road to reconciliation and restoration and healing of our marriage. But even if he had not done these things, I believe I would still need to forgive in order to heal and move down the road of my life as a healthy person emotionally (maybe physically, too) but it would not have been as a wife.

    • roller coaster rider

      Just read the related post “What Forgiveness is and What it is Not”….excellent and helpful! Thanks, Doug and Linda. Was Florida fun?

      • Doug

        RCR, Thanks! yes Florida was fun. As usual, we ate too much, drank too much, slept too much and got too much sun, but it was nice to have some time off!

        • alycon

          I’m glad to hear that you both had a lovely time, Doug. You’re obviously ‘getting there’. And I apologise in advance for my long post but I really need some help here.

          Unfortunately I’m having massive problems ‘getting’ anywhere so as today’s discussion is all about forgiveness, can either yourself or Linda advise me as to being able to get to the stage that I can even consider forgiving my H?

          My H told me in his usual matter of fact manner on Friday evening that the woman he had the EA with sought him out at work & asked him to give a CD to another woman he’s been inappropriate around.

          Instead of telling her to send it to the other woman herself he agreed to her request. This despite his solemn promises that he would never have anything to do with her or do anything for her again.

          When I ask him to do something for me hell freezes over before I get what I need. That’s how it’s always been for me. For example, I’ve been asking him for years to see a counsellor and he always refused because he ‘doesn’t want other people knowing his private business’ (though he discussed it with his EA and does so with his male friends).

          On Thursday last I asked him again about seeing a counsellor and he said ‘that’s a big step, I’ll have to think about it.’ I’m still waiting for him to say yes.

          When I (for the thousandth time) reminded him of his promises to stay away from his EA he started with the excuses – ‘I’m bound to bump into her’, ‘she came to me with the CD’, ‘I’m seeing the other woman anyway because I’m doing filming with her’. But he promised to stay away from her too – until she asked him to do filming with her!

          Naturally I’m extremely hurt, angry and disappointed with this. My H is breaking every promise he’s ever made to me about keeping away from these women but because I’m upset and angry about it his response is ‘don’t be so silly’ in a ‘baby voice’.

          I’ve told him on countless occasions that he’s poking a stick into an open wound that won’t heal because he’s done practically nothing to put this right; he carries on as if nothing happened and acts as if I’m the one with the problem.

          Last evening I tried to discuss it again and yet again it descended into a fight and he told me to ‘leave at the earliest oppurtunity.’ I started blogging property sites for flats to rent. When he saw me on the sites he said ‘you don’t have to look for flats. I said what I did in anger’. Why is he angry that I’m hurt and upset because he won’t keep his word and lies to me?

          This morning when I tried to raise it again; it descended into ANOTHER row. He pulled on the belt on my bathrobe and YET AGAIN came out with ‘don’t be so silly’ in THAT BABY VOICE! Then he offered SEX! Obviously that didn’t impress me and the row continued, and when I told him I’m sick to death of having to live like this he said ‘well leave then’. Ever since my D Day nearly a year ago I’ve lived with this.

          All the way through our ‘marriage’ (I use the term loosely as it’s not my idea of one) my H has ‘eyed’ other women up in front of me – whether they’ve been nude models in ‘joy of sex’ manuals or history books, fashion models on the pages of newspaper supplements or magazines, actresses he fancied, one of my ex work colleagues, the woman he had the EA with or the ones he’s filming with.

          He gushed about how sexy his EA’s body was and nowhe’s told me he thinks the one he’s filming with has got a great figure and she’s posed in her underwear in a men’s mag (though he claims he’s not attracted to her because he’s not into blondes!).

          This morning I asked him if it had occured to him that the ‘EA’ may be approaching him again in order to reel him back in and he said ‘no’.

          I also said I’d give my right arm to have a husband who, instead of dismissing me all the time, actually sat down with me and discussed our marriage, our hopes, dreams, differences and concerns in a humane, loving, caring and mature manner. I got no response – apart from an empty one.

          So do you think he’s really learned from this? Is he worth forgiving? Is my marriage worth saving or am I wasting my time being loyal to him and hoping he’ll wake up?

          • roller coaster rider

            Dear Alycon, I am stunned after reading your posts today. I know it isn’t probably wise to ‘advise’ seeing as how I may not know the whole scenario, but from all the various things you posted today I believe your H is beyond amazing (not in a good way). I also think perhaps counselling would be good for you, because it’s possible you are enabling that horrendous behavior. You do not deserve it, I promise you.

            • alycon

              Rcr, believe me, I know that I deserve better treatment than that which is why I have been having counselling and I also stand my ground and refuse to acknowledge his excuses; I’m no wallflower!

          • one sad sophie

            alycon, I’m so sorry to read the things in your post. And like RCR, I don’t want to pass judgment on someone I don’t even know (your H)… But. It seems clear to me that he painfully lacks any sort of RESPECT FOR WOMEN, including women he loves. Someone with this innate disregard for half the human population is simply not fit for a monogamous, loving, fulfilling relationship with any woman (or man), no matter how wonderful she is. His lack of respect for you is no reflection of the love and respect you DESERVE. Don’t blame yourself.

            He’s minimizing your justified concerns and his role in their creation.
            He’s condescending and insulting instead of apologizing and making corrections in his behavior.
            He objectifies you, the OW, the other OW, new women he meets… and it really doesn’t help that he’s likely working in a sexually-charged environment.
            And then, to top it all off, he tells YOU to leave?!

            I’m not one to give any advice to someone in your position, as I’m currently there myself. My H does some of these same things, in a much less direct way. I really hope you seek some counseling on your own, you do not have to go this alone. And you shouldn’t have to!

          • fiora

            Alcyon,
            Unlike the others who have posted here in response to you, I will go out on a limb and state that, if what you say is true about your husband’s behavior, then you have been given very clear information about how he feels about you and your needs in the relationship. Basically, you are being taken for granted and treated as somehow “inferior” emotionally and mentally so he can continue to justify and deny that his own behavior is hurtful and wrong.
            In my book, no matter WHAT a couple decides is their relationship boundary–doesn’t matter if it’s exclusively monogamous, long-term, marriage or living together, polyamorous, polyfidelitous, gay, straight or otherwise—it is REQUIRED that both members of that couple a) agree with and can live with the boundaries and b) are scrupulously honest with one another. If one member of the couple is hurt, basic respect and love requires that the other member care about why and what can be done about it.
            You ask for counseling, he says he doesn’t want others to know his business but talks about you to his EA and his friends? Apparently, the only person he doesn’t want to know his business is someone who would insist on a balanced, both sides of the story approach, rather than someone who will let him give a one-sided, probably negative view of you while making himself look good and justified.
            If he won’t go to counseling, please go yourself! You need someone to support you directly…preferably someone professional who has experience and ability to let you vent your feelings while still holding and helping you find what YOU can do about the situation.

            • alycon

              Yes one sad sophie and fiora, you’re absolutely right, thank you for your input, you’re not the only ones who’ve advised counselling!!

              That is exactly what I’m doing for myself right now and no, I don’t blame myself for the actions my H chooses to take; my parents were incredibly no-nonsense and didn’t tolerate cruel / bad behaviour.

              They taught my siblings and I from a very early age that everyone is responsible for their own behaviour and if we or someone else did something that hurts someone else then we / they have to take personal responsibility and put it right.

              We were also taught that yes, we have to respect other people and not go out of our way to harm them but we also had the right to be respected and treated decently ourselves.

              There have been a lot of occasions when I have lost sight of that advice when I’ve related in ways towards my H that I shouldn’t have, but I make sure I apologise – even if I can’t do it verbally I leave notes of apology for him to look at – and I let him know that I’ll make it up to him in any way I can.

              Ironically my parents divorced but I’ll never forget what they taught me.

              My H’s attitudes / beliefs / issues about other women or anyone else are his and his alone, I know they were formed long before I met him and I know that only he can deal with them. And I’m more than happy to be there for him, to support him and encourage him to do that.

              I hope you both have a lovely day. My H is taking me off to Canterbury for the day tomorrow so I’m going to make darn sure that I enjoy myself, lol!!!!!

    • suziesuffers

      Sometimes when I read these blogs I get confused because you are quite away into your healing over your affair….not just because of the time since D day, but because of the effort Linda has put forth….and Doug has come about to realize is essential in saving a marriage after an affair. Forgiveness is a process….another step in healing and feels different for everyone. Forgiveness is not an exchange of the cheater saying I’m sorry and the betrayed saying….ok you’re forgiven. It does feel different for everyone, but I think many times the CS expects this to be the clean slate, that once the healing process and forgiveness is spoken, that it’s start clean, at least that seems to be the expectation I hear in many blogs and in my own situation…..suddenly everything is suppose to be ok because of forgiveness….I truly believe that is just the beginning of a very long journey to rebuild.

    • Norwegian woman

      He have apologized and asked for forgiveness and I have promised to try to forgive. I think forgiveness is a process that comes with trust. When I feel I can trust him, my forgiveness is complete. When my bleeding wounds have become scars.
      My wounds are healing, but they are far from scars. It is his job to get my wounds to heal. When he has made me secure and safe again by his actions and words, he will achieve forgiveness.

    • Candace

      I agree so much Norwegian woman! I have not forgiven yet, nor do I trust. These come hand in hand for me. After 4 months our marriage is improving. But sometimes I feel like the bomb will be dropped at any moment. My H is trying, but there are times I can sense he is holding back. Not sure why and this is one of the reasons I do not trust him yet. His mid-life crisis just keeps growing. Meanwhile I am improving myself and not letting him drag me down. Just not sure how long I can keep doing this.

    • Paula

      I think RCR said it best, trust and forgiveness are two separate issues. You have to have some form of forgiveness to move on, and I know I seem to bang on about it, but that may be move on apart, but you can forgive without the trust. Trust is a separate and equally as tricky character!

      Forgiveness takes time and effort, but you forgive for you, not for your CS, not for the OP, for you, to achieve some peace, I’m not fully there yet, I understand what happened and why, but am still searching for that peace. I thought I had forgiven fairly early on, because I understood the whole thing, and loved my OH just as much as I ever had, and I understood the opprotunities I gave a very selfish, untrustworthy woman (unfortunately, I trusted my OH to do the right thing, in the face of that knowledge, because he was “the better person”) but I now realise that the process of forgiveness is ongoing, and yes, it does mean you have to forgive yourself, and I still haven’t been able to do any of that completely. Forgiving the OW (my so-called friend) is important, that’s why I don’t hate her, I understand that she had no decent behaviour to model, coming from a very dysfunctional background. I still would like to be able to talk to her, to listen to her, to get some peace between us, but this will never happen, as she seems threatened by me, so forgiving her and letting those wishes go is also important.

      Trust doesn’t have to be rebuilt with your spouse if you can carry on your life without him/her, but it is important to try to be able to learn to trust other people, in order to live a rich and full life. I’m still unsure, even after two years, if trust can ever be rebuilt fully, I don’t think it can, I think you learn to live in a different style to the way you used to – at least I have to, I had blind faith, and my naivety is gone, but I try to see that as a positive as much as possible, I miss the old me, though, she was a nice person 🙂

    • roller coaster rider

      Paula, the new you is also a very nice person. But I know what you mean, it is hard not to miss feeling the way we did before the bomb was dropped. I am trying to take away from this devastation an empathy I’m sure I never had before for those in pain. There is no pain quite like this pain.

    • Broken

      As usual RCR your post regarding forgiveness was spot on. There is a big difference between forgiveness and trust.

      • roller coaster rider

        Thank you, Broken. How are you doing?

    • Doing It God's Way

      I disagree with your last statement. It’s not our decision to forgive but the Word of God commands us to forgive. Forgiveness is of God and if you don’t forgive others, God will not forgive us. I believe God and forgiveness not only starts the healing process but it also helps us not to become hardened and bitter.

      Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others. Colossians 3:13

      • roller coaster rider

        Since when does a command from God’s Word eliminate our free will? That is the one thing God Himself will never violate. So, while I fully admit my need for God’s forgiveness and know I am commanded to forgive, it is still my choice to do so. And even when I choose to forgive, I can’t do it unless He gives me the grace and strength because on my own, it’s just too hard.

        thank you also, Jenny, for what you shared about your conversation with the OW. I tried to have a conversation also, but she was too threatened and refused to face me. I think an actual conversation face to face would really help me to heal, but I don’t know if that will ever happen. Until then, I’m going to focus on the things you said. Not becoming bitter is important to me, and also asking for help when I’m so depressed I just wish I was dead. Knowing there are others who care makes a big difference.

    • jenny

      I can honestly say that I feel like I have reached the point of forgiveness. It took me over a year to do it, but one of the keys for me was to forgive everyone involved including the other woman. I had e-mailed her not long after D-day and I thought that I had made my peace, but I had more I needed to say. I ended up getting in touch with her almost a year after the emotional affair and asked if I could talk to her. It was a little difficult to convince her to talk to me, but she eventually did. She called me and we talked for a long time. I got to ask her all of the questions that only she could answer and tell her how what she had done had made me feel. I didn’t yell or scream and she didn’t make excuses. It was a very healing conversation. In the end I could see, as is usually the case with this messy life, that things weren’t all black and white. Not one of us was a terrible person, just people in pain dealing with life. I found that I could forgive that. I can now look back at my husband’s emotional affair without that familiar ache. I remember it, but I don’t feel like I’m n the throws of it anymore. I think I am a stronger person than I was before this happened and yet I haven’t become bitter. Forgiveness doesn’t come easily, but it’s healing power is worth the effort.

    • one sad sophie

      First off, I’m grateful to have found this site. Every single post I’ve read rings of truth to me, and I feel that everyone has had all the same thoughts and feelings I’ve had, up to this point. I just found out about my partner’s EA a couple weeks ago. I immediately decided I was going to forgive him, and we’d work things out, given time and perseverance. He was so eager to fix our relationship. He immediately ended the EA, though later admitted he contacted her one more time to leave her phone charger somewhere public.
      I’ve had triggers and explosions and angry words with the OW and him, and I feel he resents ME for it. He then turns around and tells me to stop blaming myself. He’s already created a couple of indiscretions, allowing a sloppy-drunk coworker to crawl all over him right in front of me, later on staying out all night alone in his car.
      How do you forgive someone who doesn’t seem to want forgiveness? And would someone actually LIE about wanting to be forgiven? I’ll forgive him one way or another, because that I will do for myself. But by that time, I’m afraid I will have lost him forever.

      • roller coaster rider

        Sophie, maybe if you lose him you will really gain something important and good instead. I can’t say for sure. I know I often get so mixed up in my own emotional turmoil, sadness, etc. that it’s hard to see the forest for the trees. I really believe deeper than anything that remorse and real desire for a monogamous, committed relationship is critical for rebuilding a broken relationship. I will forgive the wrong done me by both my H and the OW, because that’s what is required to maintain my relationship with a God who forgives me for wronging Him, but I will not stay married to a cheater who doesn’t care what he did to devastate me and if he doesn’t want me and only me, then I will certainly say goodbye. Even after 40+ years.

    • alycon

      Jenny, you’re very lucky having been able to talk to her and let her know how you’ve suffered. But I can’t do that. I’ve been told my my H that if I get in tough with the OW I’m out the door.

    • jenny

      alycon, my husband wasn’t thrilled about the idea of me contacting her either, but it was something I needed to do. It wasn’t his decision to make. I had to follow my instincts on what I needed to do to heal and that was an important thing for me to do. I don’t think your husband is in any position to be issuing you ultimatums.

      • Paula

        Jenny and Alycon

        I have longed for the opportunity to talk to the OW, and felt a bit “jealous” when Jenny posted that it had been cathartic for her to do so. I asked to meet with her from Day One of this mess, and many times since, as I know my own mind, and knew that I needed this to feel like I had done everything I could to heal. I also just want to talk in a calm and mature manner, to listen to her as well as try to get her to see what pain I was, and now still am going through because of the actions of two people I cared about. My OH tried to get her to talk with me on several occasions, but she just says, “I have nothing to say to her, she just needs to get over it, she’s being a drama queen, she’s not that special, millions of men cheat on their wives, what makes her any different.” The problem for me was that, he would still reply to her if she texted, and I just didn’t get it. It took 22 months for him to finally understand that any contact he was having with her – and it wasn’t often, she would “test the waters” with a bright text every three or four months – while she refused to talk to me, was very damaging to me and us. I had full access to the “conversations” he had with her, he really thought they could just go back to being distant friends, honestly, what do you do with a man like that?! He now gets it entirely, is angry for himself for not really understanding what the contact (and I’m as sure as I can be that it was “innocent”) with her was doing to me. We had an very unconventional way of bringing it to a head, that I won’t go into here, as I don’t think any of you would understand what was done, but it did achieve the desired result for me, and no-one got hurt along the way. I now, for the first time in two years, feel reasonably confident that she is in the past, and my OH has felt the pain, and the desperation that I did, and we are truly on the same page, at last.

        • alycon

          “I have nothing to say to her, she just needs to get over it, she’s being a drama queen, she’s not that special, millions of men cheat on their wives, what makes her any different.”

          My god Paula, what a cruel, cold hearted whatsit she is. But aren’t all these women the same?

          This is why I try so hard to focus on my H’s behaviour, not hers, because although I know that she made the first move and he allowed himself to be led by the nose, and they are both responsible for what happened, I’m just so utterly glad that I’m not like her.

          My H has criticised me for ‘being nasty’ about her but he’s criticised her himself during conversations with his best friend about he vanity, jealousy, attention seeking behaviour – lol – he can’t seem to make his mind up!!!!!!!!!!!

          And when I’ve asked him if he’d like it if I behaved like that with another woman’s partner he says ‘well, no’……. So I’ve said well, why on earth think she’s so special and wonderful if she has trraits you don’t want to see in your wife?

          Very contradictory to say the least.

      • alycon

        Yup, you’re so right about the ultimatum, Jenny and I told him myself he was in no position to deliver one to me.

        He hasn’t issued one since, lol!!!

    • Candace

      While I’ve had no desire to speak with the OW of the EA (I do have to work with her in organizations we are both involved in) she has never once offered an apology to me. My H has apoligized and said he will take full blame. I can accept the apology but she is to blame too. They are both adults and could have stopped after her husband caught them & told them to stop. Lately it has really bugged me that she has never attempted to apologize to me. I’m not sure why. Forgiveness has not happened for me yet, either with the OW or my H.

    • Paula

      Candace, I feel the same way, our OW was an old “friend” of mine, and it would have been a very healing gesture for her to at least acknowledge my pain, I know her well, we have known each other since we were 10 years old, and it would have been way too much for her to actually apologise, as she thinks that I, “deserved it, because he wouldn’t have been available for the affair if everything was okay at home.” My H asked her about her guilt in this, and she has none, she actually told him the words I just typed. These people are often narcissistic, and in my case, psychopathic, and they just don’t “feel” empathy for those in pain. That is why I know that speaking to her now wouldn’t achieve what I would like it to, ie some form of apology or empathy for the devastating pain of betrayal, by both parties, even though I ache for her to acknowledge her part in the devastation.

    • InTrouble

      I have never really apologized for my EA, because in some odd way I feel that it was inevitable; that it was beyond my control. I am sincerely sorry that I so hurt my husband, whom I love and who is a wonderful husband in so many ways, and I have expressed that to him. I think true forgiveness has to do with how you move forward…

      • Norwegian woman

        I am sorry, but this sounds like you think that your actions was a result of destiny from “heaven”, rather than a concious choise to fill your own needs…… That your connection with this man was something you could not choose away. That is just BS.
        And I feel that the fact that you will not apologize to his wife has more to do with your “fantasy” of entitlement to this man, rather than the point that you do not know her.
        I compare it to a child that sees a lollipop. The child wants it, and it must be destiny that the lollipop lies on the table. The child doesn`t care if this is anyone else`s lollipop. The child eats it, and won`t apologize to the child that was the owner of the lollipop. The child just acted on impulse and didn`t have enough self control to check if someone owned the lollipop.
        You are not a child. You owe his wife an apology, because you should be able to act on decisions rather than impulse.
        I bet that in other fields in your life, you are not just a leaf blowing in the wind, unable to take direction.

    • InTrouble

      Paula and Candice: On a similar note, I would never apologize to his wife. I do not know her, and she has simply never been a factor in my feelings or my actions. At some level I know how wrong that is, but that’s my honest assessment.

    • Paula

      InTrouble

      With all due respect, I think it needs to be said that no affair is “inevitable” – I understand the lure, and the extremely strong feelings that you “must” follow those urges, but it is not inevitable, as we all have free will, and is totally in your (the CS) control. It is out of our (the BS) control if ours spouses are unwilling or unable to control their own urges, and don’t have the tools or the “will” to resist the lure of the exciting and new, and communicate their unhappiness and vulnerability to their partner.

      I don’t expect every BS desires any “apology” from the OP, I am just stating that due to the fact that, in my case, the OW was a long-term (for more than 32 years) friend, it would have been a jolly decent thing to have acknowledged my pain somehow, but she has decided that it was all my fault, and she did nothing wrong. I certainly do not blame her entirely, she was single, saw an opportunity to latch onto a good, caring man, and dived at it while he was in the midst of some pretty serious soul-searching. He takes full responsibility for the fact that it happened at all, and realises that he was the attached one, with everything to lose, whereas she lost nothing, and stood to gain a meaningful relationship with him, when she hasn’t had one her entire life, you cannot help but see the pull for her.

      I have spoken with her mother about this, as early on, someone (I now suspect it was probably the OW herself) was sending her mother awful letters, and OW was blaming me, so I went to see her mother (who I had served on PTAs with, she taught our two younger children, I considered her a friend, also) and unbelievably, she told me that her daughter never considered me her friend, which is such rubbish, as for years we have met up for coffee, drinks, celebrated each other’s birthdays, kept in touch via email whilst she was working overseas, etc. She came to our lakehouse to stay with me, during the affair, when she knew my H wasn’t going to be there. Now, that is a very elaborate non-friendship, I think. Just another way she is trying to justify her behaviour.

    • Candace

      The OW was also a friend of mine, an even closer friend to my sister. Our kids all went back & forth. Not anymore. She is fully aware of the pain she & my H created for all involved. She is going to counceling with her H, has legally & willingly signed a waver that if she continued the affair with my H or anyone else that she gives up everything her & her H has acquired, including the kids.

      I only feel she should offer an apology because in the beginning she said the affair was “no big deal” as did my H. Well they have both seen what a big mess it caused. Knowing her personally I know she has to feel guilt over the EA. There have been so many events that we both socialize in/at that she & her H have not attended, I know this is because of the guilt she feels, as she is the socializer & her H a homebody. And she has pulled her kids from several groups which they participated in the mine. Guilt!

    • InTrouble

      Norwegian woman – I feel no entitlement towards the man what so ever, nor do I want any ownership of him (I may be the exception to this I realize). Also, I would not offer anyone an apology that I didn’t mean.

      • Norwegian woman

        In trouble
        “i would never offer an apology that I didn`t mean”…… Boy, this statement says a lot about you….
        Do you really don`t give a s#… that YOUR actions ruined her world? YOU chose to hurt her the moment you got involved in her husband. And you really can`t feel any remorse?
        When I read this I have to admit that I thought that the difference between cheaters and non-cheaters is the ability to think only about themselves and their needs and wants. The word that springs to mind is “Narcisistic”.

    • InTrouble

      Paula – I can see how hurtful it would be to have a friend involved with your husband. Extra painful, no doubt about it.

      However, if I was in the BS position, I would wholly blame my husband. It might take two to tango, but you simply have no agreement with the OW.

      I know in my case, although I was very pursued by the man I had the affair with (and he knew I was married), my actions were my own. I don’t think I’ll ever feel that the betrayal to my husband was somehow OM’s fault – at all. It was my fault.

    • InTrouble

      One more thing and then I’ll shut up (I promise! Sorry!) — Just a thought: It took a great deal of control (A GREAT DEAL) to refrain from a sexual relationship. I guess that was the very shaky, very precarious line I drew in the sand. So, while looking back, I think of myself as being completely out of control, I guess I wasn’t totally.

    • Candace

      In Trouble, there may be no agreement with the OP, however, it is called simple respect. “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Whether you were pursued or not does not matter, you knew people would get hurt & acted selfishly.

      As a BS I blame my H as well as the OW (former friend of mine). They both knew neither marriage was as it should be, but were weak & turned to each other instead of their respective spouses. They called the shots, they were at fault, they could have ended it, they knew multiple people would be hurt, they knew the effects it would have on our life styles, they knew they would get caught, THEY were both at fault.

    • Joanna

      InTrouble — To knowingly have an affair with a married man and think that you are not doing anything to his wife that deserves an apology is mind boggling. So you think it’s right to just waltz in and destroy the other man’s wife and possibly his children’s lives with your apparent “All’s fair in love and war” attitude? You were an active participant, were you not? Was the OM’s wife, in your view, such a despicable human being that you could care less what it would do to her if she found out about the affair? It does takes two to tango, but because as you say “you simply have no agreement with the BS wife/husband, do you truly think it makes what you did OK? You intruded on another person’s marriage… that makes it wrong. In my case, I do blame my husband…certainly more than I blame the OW, but that doesn’t mean the OW is blameless. Not by a long shot. She knew he was a married man with children, but that didn’t stop her from sending my husband an email telling him she was interested in him, turning a work/business relationship into a personal one. He should have told her he wasn’t interested, and she never should have expressed her interest in him. Plain and simple. The OW apparently got what she wanted — she used my husband to make her husband jealous and make him realize how unhappy she was in their marriage, and she didn’t care who got hurt in the process — her husband, my husband, me, my children…. Perhaps if her three sons were aware of what she was doing, she would have thought twice, but I doubt it because she, like you, apparently believes that “all is fair in love and war.”

    • alycon

      I’m not sure how to respond to InTrouble – I’m gobsmacked.

      • alycon

        BTW, I’m responding to the post dated 18th July, about not apologising. I know that I’d find it a lot easier to heal if the women that have violated my marital boudaries could have shown at least a little regret………

    • gizfield

      Another standard issue Cheater phrase, “You are invading my privacy.” She will have to come up with something better than that to get past the people on this site believe me, lol. Why does a married person need to keep their phone “private”? Cause they are sneaking, or at least leaving the door open.

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