Once again it’s our monthly feature where our discussion is completely open to whatever you want to talk about.
This is Open Mic #6 and we hope that there are some things that are going on that you can share with everyone.
So…
- What’s on your mind?
- How did Valentine’s Day turn out?
- Have any successes to share? Big or small.
- Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
- Any good books you’d like to discuss?
- What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
- What’s working or not working?
- Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
- Any suggestions for future topics?
Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.
Thanks!
Linda & Doug
LINESPACE
62 replies to "Open “Mic” Discussion #6"
Two weeks after DDay on a Sunday after I had spent the last 14 days crying, sobbing, sleeping/not sleeping, not eating and really trying to remember to breathe, I woke up as if someone where in my empty bedroom and said “get up, get dressed, eat an egg, and go to church”. Now I was raised Christian but I had let my religion go a long time ago. I always had my spirit and faith but church wasn’t a part of it. Besides I thought “WTF I’m pissed at God, I don’t want to go to his house and I think he’s a rat fink for letting this happen to me!” And I swear it sounded like a real voice. OK I’m not saying it was GOD himself and maybe I was hallucinating since I hadn’t eaten anything for at least 10 days and I mean NOTHING unless it was forced on me by my well meaning family who would stop by with food. I didn’t leave the house for those two weeks with the exception of walking my dogs. I think I bathed twice. So the idea of dragging my ass out of my safe bed, bathed, fed and drive somewhere was a monumental task for me. I fought it the whole time I was getting myself ready. I wanted to crawl back in bed, but something kept pushing me forward to get up, bathe, get dressed, eat and go to church. The thought of listening to some preacher telling me how God loved me was not making me any happier about what I was being told to do so I compromised. I went to a non-denominational “church” an Ethical Society in a neighboring larger city about a half hours drive from my home. Hell YES that’s what I need some freaking “ethical” people around me because I sure as hell didn’t want to hear any of that crap about when God closes a door bull crap. Off I went haha with my two dogs in the back of my car. I was afraid if I left them at home my H would come and take them. No freaking way would I let him have those dogs!
In I go and of course everyone’s looking at me because it’s still a clique and it’s all “who is this new person and why is she here”? I smiled, and said hello but made sure I was sitting where NO ONE would speak to me. So as I sat in the auditorium just praying or mediating or just trying really hard not to throw up all over these people’s nice church, a young man came out on the stage with a guitar and started singing “Let it Be”. At that moment I knew God was talking to me, in my language. Listening to that song brought me my first glimmer of peace that I hadn’t had in the last 14 days. I sat and listened to every word and of course the tears started flowing down my cheeks. I realized how I had NO control over what was happening to me. I just had to Let It Be, Just Let It Be.
Maybe it sounds trite that a Beatles song can bring so much peace and that’s OK I’ll give that to you but for me it worked. I don’t know who or what that “voice” was on that Sunday morning. Maybe it was God, maybe it was my father’s spirit saying “Get Your Butt Out of Bed. I didn’t raise you to fall apart like this”, maybe it was starvation, or maybe it was my own fortitude, but going to that “church” and listening to the music and the words of that Beatles song worked for me. It was my personal first step on the positive path to healing.
You guys are the only ones I have told that story to. Not my therapist, not my husband, or children or friends. It’s my story that I hold in my heart. I hope by telling it maybe you too will find a very simple, benign glimmer of peace that will put you on your road to healing.
Awesome story TH.
Tryinghard,
One step at a time, baby steps.
Peace & good luck!
Loved your story!!! I think it’s pretty normal to be pissed at God when bad things happen to us. I feel sad that you had those awful 14 days alone in your bed. Baby steps my friend…..
That is absolutely beautiful, TH. thank you for sharing your special moment.
Th, Devine intervention, right when you needed it. Beautiful,
Something has been bugging me for a very long time.
How can a cs declare their love for a om/ow, and want to be with this person, yet not have sex? I would think if you have gone to the extent of telling another person apart from your spouse that you are I love with them, you can watch all the pain you have caused your spouse and still lie and cheat, be willing to invest all of your unavailable and available time into this om\ow, be willing to lose your family to some extent! to pursue this love interest. Belittle your spouse to this person, touch and kiss and give details you wouldn’t share with your own spouse, how is it sex doesn’t factor into it?
Is it guilt of going that next step? Is it the last saving grace, or is it something else?
The reason, I ask this, is if you can do everything else, then why wouldn’t you have sex? It’s not like they aren’t adults, it’s not like they haven’t put everything else of value on the line, it’s not like they haven’t already put the bs through trauma, I guess I don’t understand, because apparently they didn’t love us, or they loved us but weren’t in love with us, they found their new love who they want to be with. I guess I would think if I fell inlove with someone, I would want to share all of myself, in a new relationship, all that excitement, etc, and having someone literally keep throwing themselves at you, I find it hard to believe that after everything else, why was sex a no go.
It’s not like the spouse wasn’t already betrayed, the marital vows already broken.
My h told me it was because he wouldn’t do that while he was still married and wouldn’t do that yo me. It’s a shame he didn’t think about everything else he was doing to me for over a year. I know the ow was throwing herself at him, how could one not resist, especially if they were so in love. Why keep going back to this om/ow knowing that they want it, and you know your not going to give it up?
Maybe morals showed in that area… Hmmmm. Too bad it didn’t stop everything else.
Maybe in my case, as she was his cousin, it didn’t feel right to take it that next step, maybe also he was afraid of getting her pregnant, god knows I shoved that down his throat enough at the beginning.
Maybe it just wasn’t what he wanted and craved deep down, and was in a way just using her for the feel good boost.
I do think it’s an element of control but more than that I view it as a way of lying to themselves. If there is no sex, it is not an affair. Prior to this blog, I had never heard of the term “emotional affair”. I am fairly certain most men don’t think they are cheating until they have “done the deed”. Stopping short of that, they can fool themselves into thinking they are “just close friends” and that justifies even saying “I love you”.
That could right too eg, they do believe if no sex it is not an affair, or it isn’t as bad, so they aren’t doing any harm to you. Maybe easier for them to live with themselves.
SR – I agree with what EG said about not believing it’s an affair if there is no sex. When I asked my CS why he didn’t have sex with her his comment was, “I wouldn’t do that to us.” Clueless! He still refuses to call it an affair. He uses the term betrayal. And just this week we discussed some ongoing trust issues from his AFFAIR and he threw the “can you just get over it.” He said it like a 5 year old begging for a cookie. I believe with my entire being that he just cannot wrap his brain around the fact that what he did was an affair because that would make him a really scummy person in his own mind.
Then there’s my idiotic MIL who encouraged and facilitated the affair. Just this week she posted on her FB page that “cheaters are sinful.” But she’s a whole other version of bat shit crazy.
I believe they are all lying. My wife kept saying, hes not for the flesh. When we were meeting in hotels they were always suit rooms, he respects me. Yeah then why this time did he rent a no tell motel room? she says cost, BS. I think when she said things got out of hand, she does not mean that I found out she was back in her EA, she decided to leave me, once she left they crossed into PA. Everyone including my therapist says itsa PA. My wife used to tell me there was no sex, but now thats she hiding with him somewhere and going to his country to his apartment for ten days I asked her. She says, I am not obligated to answer that. I said you asked for a divorce but I am still your husband, do Ineed to get an STD test? The AMAZING thing to me is when she was home we were having amazing sex. But I knew she also crossed because she got frisky on 2/11 and said wait until VD, but then met him in the hotel. she was holding back for him! Plus she told me that she felt like I was the affair she enjoyed sneaking around behind his back!! Thin is I am 5’8′ 185 lbs 6% Body Fat, hes 6’2″ looks like Shrek, has a pot belly and missing teeth!!!!!!
Strength, for what it’s worth, I think it is a “control” issue. And what I mean by that, is as long as you are holding out the promise of sex, it’s easier to keep a guy ((or girl ) on the string. It’s gonna be so great, the best ever, blah, blah, blah. With no action to back it up.
It’s a well known phenomenon that guys will dump you a lot of times after you have sex with them. Dont know why, it’s no longer new territory to them, maybe.
Anyway, when I was dating all those decades ago, lol I realized the guys I had sex with treated me like crap usually. The ones who I wasn’t really that interested in, and therefore no sex, were crazy about me. The next thing I know it was “I love you. I want to marry you, etc”. That would scare me and I would break up with them.
So I think maybe they realize it might break them up after the mystery is gone. Or possibly one person may not really like sex, and their “morals” is a good excuse not to. I told my husband a couple of times “miss Golden Crotch must not be all that, cause every guy she’s with tosses her back, lol” I also told him “she must not have had sex with you if shes in love with you, cause you are not very good.” That makes me laugh thinking back. Low blow.
You are right about when we were younger if we have ourselves up too easily, we would be tossed to the side and they would move onto their next conquest.
Yet because we know men love sex, how is it that this ow is throwing herself at him and although he “loves”her he turns her down. We aren’t young like we used to be, so i know in our instance she wanted it badly, and he apparently wouldn’t give himself to her in a sexual way.
What I don’t get, is how an ow would not feel like there is something wrong, if he doesn’t want to have sex with her. Why stay chasing after a man for over a year when he won’t give himself to her? Surely she knew he would be getting it from home, so why would she believe, he wants her and not his wife when he won’t have sex with her?
I think chasing after a man, throwing yourself at him for even a month of him not giving himself would have you turn off him, as you would think, hey maybe he isn’t really interested in me that way? So what is the driving force that all of a sudden has the tables turned, from when we were younger, when the man would give it up, to a woman throwing herself at him, because it was a sure thing, to now being a grown man, and having a woman throw herself at him, yet he is not accepting her advances of sex, he is just happy for the attention in an emotional way not physical. How is it a ow would still chase him. Is it now a challenge for her to conquer?
Sorry for the ramble. Lol
Ok, I will play devils’ advocate. I think in their own twisted mind it makes him more noble for resisting what she surely sees as an enormous temptation. I think they also believe it means he “respects” her for not pushing for sex. She views herself as even more desirable if he is engaging in relationship and there ISN”T sex involved. It is proof that he “loves” her for her, not just for sex.
I threw up in my mouth a little after I wrote all that, but I am guessing that is something along the lines of what a delusional whore would tell herself. Keep in mind, the affair is always about making themselves feel good about themselves. She would spin the truth any way she NEEDED to, to keep the fantasy going with her as the star.
You know eg, I asked her one day after I called her a s””t, did you sleep with my h, my h was right there. She said to me ” it’s not your business”. Wtf, she is telling a wife of the man she is trying to take, that it isn’t her business if she slept with the h. I out it down to if, she said yes, my h would have seen what she was, so saying it’s not my business was leaving it in her court.
Couldn’t believe she even called me a s””t, not sure how that worked considering he is my h. Lol
Btw I like your term miss golden crotch, lol.
thank you, Strength. lol, I can get pretty descriptive at times.
as far as why your husband did not have sex with her, maybe he really did feel guilty. Or maybe he just wasn’t feeling a shortage, like a single person would, lol. sorry to be so blunt. you can’t really say in these situations.
Lol, giz, there was definitely no shortage. I do think many factors came into it with him, such as being married, guilt ridden, him never thinking of her in a sexual way before his ea, also being related, so all sorts of problems there can arise on its own, as well he didn’t want anymore children, so that would have been a turn off, knowing she wanted a child, so he probably didn’t have that trust there,, where she wouldn’t do something to get herself utd.
I think that would scare any man, lol.
Maybe her golden crotch was fools gold and not real gold. Lol. That would explain a lot….
Fools gold, I like it. Like I said, everybody this chick was with kicked her to the curb. She drug her child across the country 2,000 miles to shack out with a pilot. Not sure how long that lasted but it couldn’t have been more than 2 or 3 years. He ditched her when she told him she used to be a prostitute. Oh, I’m sorry I mean call girl. Golden crotch, indeed.
She was hoping to make it golden, lol.
Ohhh my poor kid, it’s them that suffer.
I just read a book called WHAT ALICE FORGOT…it’s a comical book about a woman who falls while at a spin class only to wake up and it’s ten years later than she thought. She thought she was 29, madly in love with her husband and pregnant. She wakes up to find her self turning 40, three kids, a fat sister and she’s divorcing her husband. I liked this book because it talks about old her vs new her. If you want a new topic to discuss, it could be writing a letter to ourselves in the future, or how to handle our past especially on how to handle the affair….just a thought….
I believe the one and only reason to contact the other person is to see exactly what you are dealing with. Not for them to apologize, or explain, or give you details but for you to see how pathetic, unreasonable, selfish, just plain inferior she really is. My husband’s girlfriend had a whiny, nasal disgusting voice. Called me a c$&t and other obscenities, said she hated me (???), threatened me, said I was crazy, insecure, jealous, etc, etc. you get my point. THIS classless, low life whore was what my husband was holding over my head as my replacement? Are you effing kidding me? It makes me want to reach over and slap him, even now. When you quit seeing her as desirable in any way, it changes the way you deal with the entire situation. I heard no more defense of her from this guy, believe me. And I am truly disgusting by how bottom of the barrel he scraped.
Giz, that particular day, I caught my h down the park with her, he was supposed to be walking the dog. She sat there with a smug look on her face, like shit hit jackpot, and had finally won grand prize, , believe me, I knew who I was dealing with, yet seeing her and my h together, felt like a kick in the teeth. I had just the night before sat at the hospital all night after my h injured himself and needed surgery, and apparently he needed her to lick his wounds.
Emotions went high, I guess after my h told me he loved her, in front of her, I needed to know what she would say, maybe to make it easier to walk away from him who knows. I did almost leave that day, he left her at the park to stop me. She wasn’t so smug then was she. With her man voice, go run to her, you always run to her.
Oops, I’m not disgusting, but disgusted, lol.
In my story sex was not the issue. For the OW it was just a power game. My H just had a ” soft spot” for the “brilliant” way she runs her life ( using everybody to get what she wants!!) and to him he was just stroking her ego ” nothing more” . For both of them it is still the proof nothing they did was actually wrong. They still both think we can go back to being friends like before. ( I would have to cut my whole social life and that of the kids to get her out if my life !!!) After Dday he was angry because he was accused of something he didn’t even have the pleasure of?!? Now he says he was to afraid of her?!? Not afraid enough to send her ” ambiguous texts and mails…” But it’s probably true, she’ s the type to play the game up to the physical limit and then dump them acting shocked and then enjoying those men crawling back trying to get in her good books again. Although sex was not an issue they don’t realize that it has the same destructive effect on the BS
Thanks for all the nice comments on my Let It Be story. I just felt the need to tell it. In the middle of the shock and devastation and the in your face reality, tiny voices come to you offering you peace. It’s important to listen to those voices. Call those thoughts/voices anything that works for you, it’s the listening that counts. This is not to say that I didn’t have some other very loud voices that said “get a gun and shoot those m effers” too!! They were pretty powerful AND I am REALLY glad I didn’t act on them!!! Let It Be keeps me grounded and reminds me that I have NO control over anyone else’s decisions. Life goes on, which BTW, is another Beatles song:)
Yeah I think it is only human nature to curse God for one’s misfortune. One of the first things my sister said when they came over on DDay was “You need to get to church”. She was right, but that was the wrong timing on her part. My anger at God was short lived.
Those first two weeks were pretty pathetic. I never had any idea that’s how I would react. I couldn’t move, I couldn’t breathe. Food was poison. I’d go from the bed to the sofa. One night I sat on my deck and sobbed for at least an hour. Thank God the neighbors house was far enough away they didn’t hear it or if they did they must thought it was an animal. I never believed I wouldn’t have been strong enough to handle that kind of loss. I was always strong, resourceful and pretty independent. I’d been through this shit before but this time was different. The first time I threw him out and he begged his way back. This time he left with no warning. Those years ago I was younger and had my whole life ahead of me to start anew. This time I was older and my whole world was crashing.
I’m only telling this in hopes that maybe someone else will learn from it. I know all of you had or are having the same pain. Have done what I have done and I’m here to say, it gets better. Whether you stay or go, it gets better and you need to listen to your soft voices. Go deep and find your own strength to deal with your own pain. You will want to turn to your spouse, but the answers aren’t there. It’s in YOU.
Hi tryinghard, I am in such pain and conflict right now. I will talk to friends that have been through this they will tell me something such as “Get a separation agreement do not let her back in the house” I will be like OH YEAH that’s the idea…and then 20 minutes later I think of her, sometimes the fact that she’s with her EA/PA and I get weepy and say, I’d rather have her here in-home separated than not here. Knowing that she says she loves him and that she is meeting up with him every 3-6 weeks when he’s around. In addition that we have been together 34 years and up until her affair started me as far as I know was the only guy since she lost her virginity the night we got engaged. I can’t believe how much I love this woman who has destroyed me over the last 10+ months. Actually she destroyed me before by being passive aggressive with me and then claiming that I was no longer the man she married. I really believe I have lost her for good. I just don’t seem to want to let go or accept it. I keep wondering back to the “Marriage Junk” and how she’s probably thinking if he really loved me this or that would not have happened. I still remember the first day we laid eyes on each other at Day Camp. As matter of fact I switched colleges to be with her my junior year. We literally have been together since we were 19 years old. I am not one of those men who want some 25 year old girl. I had a beautiful Sexy charismatic intelligent woman. Yes she could mean and nasty but I saw through those faults, why she could not see through mine I don’t know. She refuses to take any responsibilities for ANYTHING to do with our marriage. But at the same time she wants to live with me until our son goes to college. I think once this is finally over and I move on I am going to write a blog page called GO WITH YOUR GUT!
Frank lee
Holy cow. You are dealing with way too many emotions and scenarios than any one person needs to deal with. I get all the shit you are talking about. I’ve been married 35 plus years, high school sweethearts blah, blah, blah. I hear you I know your pain. Hell I lived it. I want you to freaking FOCUS. You are in the middle of the maelstrom. It’s an awful place to be. I’m sorry. But learn from others here. One logical step at a time. Get some good legal advice is all I’m saying. I’m not advocating divorce but your wife will only wake up when her whole world comes craning down and you are in charge of that. Right now she is having her cake and eating it too. Don’t put up with her vacillating between you and the tour guide. You are not in competition with him. Take yourself out of that competition. I’m sure you’re a great looking guy with lots to offer. We all are. That’s not the battle. Protect yourself and your child with or without her.
Th, ” let it be” I’m happy those words came yo you in your time of need. Some days, even now I would just love to hide away from the world. It’s funny you know, I had a step back, actually a large step back, just after Christmas, I’m still trying to get myself out of that slump. It’s not as bad, but there are days, I’m stuck.
You know I like to listen to that little voice, and it kept me fighting for my marriage.
Your a good person th, I’m glad you found your way.
Hi. It’s been a long while since I’ve visited here. The new life is going v well, job, life, home… my h & I feel closer than ever but then again we are v dependent on each other. It’s been stressful in a good way & being v far away from reminders of much more painful times has meant that what my h did to us feels like a v long time ago indeed. However tonight the memories came back because hes staying overnight at a hotel for a conference, the last time he did that he treated himself to a one night stand with the ow. Treated himself was his description once. I dont think he’d be so stupid to do that again but, as I discovered, he’d been treating himself to that sort of thing at every conference he went to. No sex until the ow, ss far as he said. Anyway, I feel conflicted. I know what he’s capable of. He knows I know, compared to the past. So I’ve been out for a long run, walked the dog, watched some documentaries, returned to my healthy coping mechanisms not eating sugary food. But the hate for the ow is back, now I realise its displaced hatred of how my h’s actions have left me with this problem. I know I’ll survive.
a new quandry for me is that my new male work colleague is v funny, confident & v flirty. He’s married & his wife sounds like an angel. I think hes like this with most women but this week there have been so many comments made about things he thinks I would like & be interested in. Alot of it based on something I said say last week during a conversation. Im now finding it uncomfortable. My h works in the same office but we dont work together so this man has met & worked with my h. Im aware that a few years ago I wouldve loved this type of attention & can see how easy it would be to encourage this man but today I dont need that and my self esteem is good. My h is hopefully at the same point, confident in himself and us so that if some conference bike comes along he can see her for what she really is, a whole heap of trouble.
Hey Chiff, I was thinking about you the other day and wondering how things were going. Sounds like they are going pretty well, all in all. TH gives you good advice so I won’t add anything else. Just wanted to say Hi!
Chiff
I wondered how it was going. So happy to hear you two have settled in. Ok so you had a trigger. It’s okay. Normal. This is the new normal sister so roll with it. Yeah we know what all of our mates are capable of but remember it is your choice you are staying. All the cards were put on the table. You now know what you are dealing with. Sure he could cheat but he could also not cheat. Enjoy the attention and the flirting from your male colleague. You know your boundaries. You aren’t going to do anything stupid. You’re a seasoned warrior! Besides everything we have been through we need a little ego stroking too.
So here is my question for everyone. I am like a drug addict. I am so addicted to my wife that as much as she lied to me for 12 months told me she was not contacting her AP; she admitted that she had a burner phone paid for by him!! So here’s the situation. She walked out. Went to work and disappeared for 48 hours. Then contacted me and said she needed time to think. 24 hours later she emailed me a divorce decree. I was devastated!!
She has been talking to me for hours every day, but she is with the “Tour Guide” yes he is a tour guide in Israel. He has had multiple affairs with wives of clients; all of them went back to their families, so he has learned how to prevent this. She tells me that she can’t talk to me near him because he gets angry (I MA HER HUSBAND!!), The other day he kept calling her at work, I said god almighty if I call you more than twice in a row your freak, she said in a nervous giggly way “yes but I want to talk to him” What a heart wrenching @#$%$#. Any how she was looking at apartments near her job. Her plan was to rent an apartment and have the OM pay half the rent. His story was that until she moves to be with him in 28 months he would come back to be with her whenever he was not running a tour or as he calls it a “Group” So she would have work and her apartment and that’s better than her 4500 square foot home! I think most of the apartments were too expensive or in unsafe neighborhoods. So now reality starts to settle in. Plus I have no idea why she only wanted a 4-5 month lease?
Anyhow, she found a cute apartment for $950/month plus utilities. She called me and said that she talked the landlord down to 4months. Then she says she is thinking about coming home for an in home separation. Meanwhile I can’t lock her out she owns 50% of the house, but since she left and abandoned her youngest son…So anyhow she says 80% home 20% rental. NNNOOOOO I know the truth; there were others who wanted the apartment, maybe they were not at her income level but they had a year rental in mind. So she called me today and said I want to come home, but can I have the bedroom. It’s a huge room, like an apartment so I said yes, but that’s also your req room etc, also your OM can never even enter our neighborhood.
Ok so here is my dilemma, first off am I an idiot for still wanting her?
The other is she needs to hit rock bottom crash and burn! She is leaving with him to Israel for 10 days on Sunday and then coming back here, her home, maybe if she got stuck in a small apartment by herself she would resent him more and more, now they can talk and talk but only by phone. Thing is he may come back with her and stay in a hotel near by…for a week until he has to go back. How many times and what total weeks can he live here? Several times over the last week she made comments, like “he does not like that we are talking” he gets angry if I am late, hey me god forbid I rushed her she would give me grief, but no he can do what he wants… She also said she can’t let him see she texts me etc etc…
So what’s best for her too? I told her she needs to go live on her own for a month with no men etc…But I don’t trust that she and he won’t be talking. Because she is a liar about this affair. Should I take her back, why did she call her lawyer and say we are going to try and work things out but she’s still going away? She tells me it’s to see what she wants she needs space. Funny thing I am still her husband, but I am not allowed to ask her any questions without her getting angry and she feeds and loves his!
I am new at this but from what I have experienced and what I have read, nothing will change for you until you draw a line. I would call it tough love. Your wife should not have the privilege of you, your child or your home until she is ready to come home 100% committed to saving your marriage. If she can’t decide than you being strong may make that decision come quicker. You deserve some peace.
Your pain is all over your letter. She has lost her mind. March 4 is my 2 year anniversary that my wife got caught. She told me they were soul mates. It lasted a few months. I think she meant play mates.
You can want all you want. If she doesn’t step up to the plate it will never be.
I waited, my ex sits in a small condo. I’m with my two kids now 25 and 23.
I hate she is suffering…… However, she’s not interested.
Hi sirkenneth and tiredofitall, the reason I hurt so much is because I feel like I took total advantage of my wife’s love. I could be controlling and possessive at times. As a matter of fact I would travel for business all the time, but when she did I was always obsessed that she was doing something. I was constantly worried, maybe because I knew her mother was unfaithful, plus as my friends say “you make her into a queen, act as if she’s a 10 etc.” They all feel either I or she has made me believe there is no one better.
Everyone else says it is her who refuses to take any responsibility for her infidelity.
Today we were talking about her trip etc. I asked if he was coming back since he has work like four days after that back in Israel. She says it’s up to her, she’s not sure. So I said to her you should stay with him and not come to the house then, she got all well, its 50% mine yadayadayada.
So she said, Honey you and I are good together, we do things like a family, we have fun in the outdoors, we workout together etc, etc, then here comes the BUT: but we are like brother and sister, I mean I love you but you have to realize I am in Love with XXXX. Boy I got hit in the head and chest at the same time and it really really hurt. So my Fight or flight said fight. I said to her Your having PA once you say what you did you have crossed the line. I also said this is going to crash and burn and I may not stick around to pick up the pieces. Of course she goes into that I am wrong its real love and if it does not work out its decision etc…So I told her the reason your boyfriend does certain things is because he has been through this 35 times (more like 37 according to his ex) and the women always return to their families. He has learned what to do to not let him loose another. She gets pissed and says “all you do is talk in circles” you’ve told me this on and off and it has not worked!” That’s my downfall this stupid Circle talk, but I am a sales representative by training what do you expect.
So now I am conflicted do I let her return even though she has this relationship or do I call her a week before she comes home and say “sorry you cannot come Home”? You see if I do it know I don’t think it will kick her down hard enough.
FrankLee,
I’m so sorry about your heartache. Personally I think you should lock her out and say too bad!!! But…it’s not ever that easy with history and kids. I was married 20 years in what I thought was a good marriage, good life, 3 kids, 4500 sq foot home, vacations. I thought he adored me. I took vows, for better or worse. My h blew in the door one day and said, I need to talk to you. (1 year ago feb 21) I thought he had been fired from his job. After 20 YEARS of marriage and standing by him he said…..I’ve made a mistake, I’ve fallen, I’m in love with someone else, lets tell the kids, let’s get a divorce. That abrupt, that quick. He never looked back. Never took any accountability. He’s bad mouthed me and tried to justify to everyone around him the “WHY’s of it all. Just as much as the affair, the bad mouthing and making things up about me is just as hurtful. (I was emotionally abusive, he claims I always asked for a divorce, I had anger issues. The list goes on)
I never even had the opportunity to try or to get marriage counseling. She had her hooks in him. She was also married with 4 children. They worked together and traveled together (fantasy land). We were divorced within 8 months. He was so excited to start his new life. He got married 1 month after our divorce was final. I still have to come to terms that this is really happening. I would NEVER wish this experience on anyone.
On the other side of things…..my best friends h cheated on her. It was horrendous as well. However, she stuck through all the “I don’t know who I want” stuff. She fought to save her marriage. 5 years later they are still working through tough issues. I think they will make it but not without a lot of work and scars and heartache. Either way unfortunately your life has changed forever. I truly feel like 1 year later and I’m just getting my feet underneath me. When you say it’s like a drug, I think part of it is shock, survival and wondering how someone you loved so much would be capable of this?! My heart goes out to you.
My question sirkenneth….WOULD YOU TAKE HER BACK AND WOULD YOU TRUST HER AGAIN?
See I afraid we would have one little argument and boom she would think of him again…I swear he’s the father she never had.
Hi Francis,.
Sorry to see you are here. I am a year and one month from my D-Day. My wife was having an emotional affair and luckily I caught it before it became a PA. I found this site and it the advice from members helped me a great deal. I know you are using this site for advice from some great people who have gone through what you are/have. However, I don’t think you’re listening to what people are telling you! You have to grow some balls and make a stand! You are definitely letting your wayward spouse control this marriage when she has already turned her back on you and your son.
She’s the one who chose another man and flaunts it in your face. Like someone said to you earlier “she’s having her cake and eating it too”. Unless you draw a line in the sand and tell her she can’t come back to the house that she willingly chose to leave to be with him, she’ll continue to play you like a fiddle. Don’t wait around for her, force her to make a choice. When my wife realized what she could be losing, she snapped out of it pretty damn fast!
Sorry for being a bit harsh on you, I know what hell you must be going through. Things will get better, but you need to take care of yourself and child and don’t worry about her. Good luck!
I wish I did this back in July or November. Maybe had I done this she would not have missed him so much that she went to Israel to see him!
I guess I was afraid that if I threw in the towel she would just leave and I really was trying to follow one of those Save The Marriage websites.
Francis, you have to remember, your not giving up. Your making a stand. I have to say though, by the sounds of it, your w knows deep down that this om is untrustworthy. That she could end up alone if she doesn’t keep her feet still in the family home. She knows you love her, she knows she can trust you, but she needs to see you mean business, you won’t let her walk all over you.
Honestly, tell me, what has she done for your son since her affair started? My guess would be, very little. They think they are the perfect parent during the ea, however, they dropped their children, just as easily as they dropped us. All for the sake of their new found love.
I wish I had stood up for myself and my children early on iinti my h ea, after he had returned home, from deciding it was me he wanted. Yet the whole time he was still seeing the ow. If I had maybe he would have dropped her sorry ass long before he did.
Yet I was worried about his health and well being, as he was in depression. I guess I was afraid he would never return to me.
I guess the last straw for me, was when we moved away from our home, our friends and our oldest, and for months into our new home he was calling her all the time when he left for work, throughout the day as well as on his way home, when he did come home.
That’s when I was ready, truly ready to leave him, and I had made no secret of it to him. He would worry I would leave when he was away. I had already a place lined up, and he knew it, because I told him.
Maybe that was his wake up call. As I mentioned to him on several occasions, there is only so much a person can take, before they say enough is enough, I’m done, like a cooked dinner.
One thing I was glad about, was he knew I loved him, not like at the very beginning of his ea, he thought I didn’t care. I proved to him, that what she had helped plant into his delusional mind was false.
Yet there comes a time when they need to prove exactly how much they love you. As really that is what it comes down to. What are they willing to sacrifice for you, your children, their family? If they can’t sacrifice that op, to protect their family, to truly work on the marriage, then that shows, you don’t mean as much to them as what they say you do.
Actually it’s more I wish I had at times, not all the time, just some of the time. As all I felt like I needed to do was keep fighting for my family. Yet it is the heartache you go through while keeping up with the fight, and just getting let down time and time again, it’s when I think of the let downs, that’s when I wish I had walked and let him find his own way.
Yet i what also kept me from walking away several times, was not just because my h would stop me, it was my children and having some no hoper ow, be apart of their life. Didn’t want that to happen, at all.
Technical question. I always get an email about these blogs 2-3 days after people have been talking/replying. Do you have to be a higher member to get them sooner?
I’m not sure why it takes so long for you to get the notification of the comments, but you do not have to be a Higher Healing member to get them sooner. I’ll have to check into why it takes so long. It could be a server issue or a plugin issue I’m guessing. Thanks for the heads up!
Thank you! The email containing this posting was delivered to my inbox at 5:32 a.m. this morning.
I thought you were speaking about the comments…We send out an email newsletter every Friday that has the recap of the week’s posts. We pretty much post regularly every Monday, Wed and Fri if you just want to check back on those days. Otherwise, if there is a particular post that you want to follow you can subscribe to comments at the very bottom of the comment section/page and you will be notified by email whenever a comment is made on that post.
Just wondering, has anyone found since the start of dday, that they have stepped back away from others in your life?
I have found I stepped back from everyone except my h and children. At first it was to protect the name of my h with family and friends etc, incase we stayed together. Yet now I think it is more stepping away from everyone including my mother and sister. I’ve realised that I have been through so much, had all the “this is your fault blah blah blah” you didn’t do this, you did this, for a long time, it’s like I had taken the blame for everything. When I stopped calling my mum and sister so much, during the ea before we moved away, I had a lot of “you have changed, we used to be so close, or listening to other complaints about how i am, such as I have hurt my sisters feelings for not calling her like I used to, I started to slow even more down. The same thing with my friend, it was my fault not letting her in on how I was feeling, she would take offense to me not confiding in her. So contact started to dwindle, especially if anything judgemental came up about my h. Then we move far away from everyone, for me the main focus at first was to get away from the ow, and all the triggers associated with her. Yet now 14 months on, I have realised, that I wanted to get away from everyone, all the humiliation, all the “ohh you don’t call you have changed etc”. I realise I have been wanting to avoid talking to people because I’m tired of being told about what my faults are. I really like to not talk most of the time, maybe a self protection, because let’s face it, I have already had so much thrown at me, and hurt more than anyone else has ever hurt me, by my own h, I don’t need anymore let downs, or even more criticism.
Today, again, my mother calls “are you alright,? Yes mum I’m ok. Well your sister said you don’t call anymore, and I told her yes I call her she doesn’t call. (Mind you I did call two weeks ago, just this time a few things on my mind, in which I don’t feel like dishing out to my family). All I thought was here we go… “You have changed since you moved, we used to be so close”. Just more of me having to think of everyone else’s feelings except my own. God forbid I don’t call for a couple of weeks I never call. All I came out with was ” I don’t need this mum”. (Really I don’t) we ended up saying good bye and that was it.
You know I hate that she felt upset when I said that, but I just don’t feel like being the one that is the cause of everyone else’s pain. I prefer to be away from everyone. I have had enough guilt put on me.
I was planning on dropping in to see my mum on Thursday, as I had to go down that way for my two youngest daughters paediatrician appt, yet now I’m just not quite sure.
Honestly I truly don’t feel like talking, I just feel like I need to step back. I know you ladies and gents will understand to some extent. I guess I just like to know that how I feel towards everyone in my life, that it isn’t just me.
I do know my mum means well, yet every time I hear ” you have changed (in a bad way, not a good way) I just put my defenses up. Like honestly what do they expect, me to be the loving generous person I once was. Honestly I have enough in my head, with everything else that is going on, to worry about what someone else thinks of me again…
Sorry, for the ramble, just needed to get it out.
I am the same way, Strength. I’ve always been a little withdrawn and “hard to know.” My first husband isolated me and I spent a lot of time alone. I’m friendly and people seem to like me, but I really dont get close to anyone. I especially hate to talk on the phone. I tell people I will call them and just dont do it. I dont answer my phone either, lol. Text or email is fine but only for a few minutes, I have a short attention span. I started in my department at work about the time my husband took up with his girlfriend. There was a group of four or five girls who ate lunch together every day. Next thing you know I was having to eat with them everyday in the cafeteria. I finally got out of that, and eat at my desk, by myself. I like other people but mostly prefer to be alone. I am not trying to be rude but I no longer csre what anyone thinks of me. I’m not anti social, but more asocial, if that is actually a word. I think I am an introvert and they say if you are, being around people, talking etc, drains you, which is a good definition for it. I really do like them, but just in very limited doses. I prefer to read, or watch television, or putter around the house, do stuff with the kids at church, or the Girl Scouts.
Giz, I was always happy go lucky, I loved talking to people, I did start to withdraw from the world when I had my first miscarriage, but I was starting to break out of that habit, then my h decided to,have his ea, turned my world upside down again. Slowly I started to withdraw again. Now since I have moved, I feel like, I prefer to be just left alone.
If I want to talk, I will call.
I too don’t answer the phone, the only person I answer the phone to is my h, and only occasionally I decide to answer the phone for someone else, otherwise it ignore it, make out I am not home.
It’s not like I mean to be this way, I just find it as less chance of drama.
All I won’t is peace and quiet, I want my marriage to work, I want my children happy, but I just want to be left alone until I am ready to face the world properly.
I saw the dr today, she seems to think I should go on anti depressants, I have tried them before, I don’t want to go on them. She also thinks it would be a good idea if I see a psychologist. I told her I will think about it. The truth is, I know I will be ok when my family life is back on track where my h and I are together everyday, not just seeing him two nights a week. So it isn’t like I don’t know why I feel sad quite often.
I also don’t want to look weak, going to a psychologist. I have handled so much, I’m sure I can get through this without one.
I have here as an outlet too, which helps get things off my chest. What I don’t like is feeling like all I do is let people down, but what about me? Is it selfish that I just want space to myself, without being made to feel bad for that too?
I try not to be rude too, or uncaring, but it appears as though that is what people take it as.
I do like people too, I’m not sure who I can really trust now, is at the moment not ready to really get to know anyone in a personal level. Sometimes I do feel lonely for company of a friend, but I just not ready to put myself out there right now. All I can concentrate on is making sure my marriage makes it through this phase of our lives. It seems to be more important to me, than anything else.
Yet I do prefer just keeping to myself, not needing to talk, not needing to listen to anyone, just doing what I want.
Strength, I dont think there is anything wrong with psychotherapy or anti depressants but I dont think there is anything wrong with being a private, quiet person either. Too much talking, wanting approval, etc is what got the cheaters into trouble as it is. My first husband talked continuously and I hated it. my current husband is quite a talker too being a salesperson. His talking to his girlfriend wasn’t extraordinary or anything cause he talks so much to everyone, lol.
I have to say I am talker, during my attempts to save the marriage my wife claimed I talked in circles about her partner. But I have to tell you he talks more than me and very slow and repeats himself. When we first met him as our guide, she was like I wish he would shut up.
I guess what it came down to is like she said, you both talk a lot but I WANT TO TALK TO HIM!
I was told my wife that what attracted me to her was my ability to hold a conversation, now she says thirty years later it drove her nuts. During our attempts to save the marriage she accused me of trying to convince her and tLk in circles. She calls it circle talk (term from her husband hating therapist)
Thing is her AP never shuts up, he talks very slow, about the same thing over and over. When he was our tour guide she would make fun of the fact that he never ever shut up.
I also find my self gabbing when I am nervous.
A few days ago my wife was on the phone with me for 2 hours! He kept calling her and she was pissed at him. I said why don’t you tell him to stop? She said because maybe I like talking to him…another dagger thrown
Xterra
You give good advice. I have yet to hear one person say “oh yeah I kept calm. I didn’t get a lawyer. I didn’t give an ultimatum. We talked calmly and he/she woke up and we reconciled right away.” Unfortunately you have to take the bull by the horns and make some pretty drastic moves to “wake them up”. But I don’t know how anyone would expect otherwise! One has realize what they stand to lose by continuing with the affair. Some will say it’s worth the loss and keep forging ahead with the OP. At least you know. But if you keep giving in to their excuses that they “need time to think”, they are “confused” you are only making yourself a doormat for their bad/selfish behavior. Really this is all they want. They ALL want their life and their secret life. Once CS figures out the BS means business and won’t stand for it, and are taking measures to change life as you know it, then and only then will they start acting reasonable and stop all the affair bull shit talk.
You are the only adult in this situation and someone has to make adult decisions. Hard as they may be. If not, life will just go on as before.
“right on”, Xterra and Trying Hard. Excellent advice. Ths is a horrible thing for Francis wife to put their son thought, very harmful. If no other reason, he needs to put a stop to it now. In my Iopinion.
Francis
We are NOT telling you to throw in the towel. But all this “talking” you and she are doing is NOT productive. Obviously she likes talking to him as well as other things she does with him. Really, you need her to tell you that. Yes she will talk and act opposite than you know her. It doesn’t make a difference. Quit talking and start acting. LAWYER UP! Do what’s right for your son and you. Maybe even a therapist. You are looking to the wrong person for help and advice.
Sorry to sound so illiterate in my last comment. Did not proofread.
Francis, from what you have said, it almost sounds to me like you are dealing with a con artist. This guy is a serial cheater, his so called wife knows about it, they visit people that were clients? It is just too strange. You wife sounds like a 50 ish, attractive, successful woman. No better target for a con. I would do a background check on the tour guide , like TR said Lawyer Up, and take steps to protect your financial assets, especially with the fact you have a minor child. Good luck, and please take care of yourself.
Author: Francis Lee
Comment:
My question sirkenneth….WOULD YOU TAKE HER BACK AND WOULD YOU TRUST HER AGAIN?
See I afraid we would have one little argument and boom she would think of him again…I swear he’s the father she never had.
THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED OF ME TODAY.
Interesting question and not the first person to ask me that. My answer has always been very simple. It’s not a question I can answer, it’s not about me it’s about her. It’s not what I want, it’s what does she want? She has never really asked to come back. So until she does that there is no point in speculating. It’s all in the delivery and sincerity.
After her soulmate (or playmate) ended it, she did ask me to come and see her shrink with her (he’s a wako). Then we went to see this marriage counsellor together, only once. However, the way she asked wasn’t right. She said let’s try, no guarentees.
That doen’t cut it for me.
I need PIG COMMITTMENT.
Have you ever heard of the barnyard breakfast?
The Chicken and the pig get together and the chicken says, “Let’s make breakfast for all the barnyard animals” The Pig answers, “for you that’s involvement, for me it’s total commitment.”
March 4, is two years. All I know is that I live with my kids and she’s out. She use to talk about how she would hate dating at this age. (She left me that fate, that was ok) Well, now that she’s alone guess she’ll have to deal with that too.
Listen she believes the affair was my fault, so does her mother. (Well at least 50%, she allows me that much) She wouldn’t have had an affair if she was unhappy. From what I’ve read on the subject, these are standard answers. The only person responsible for someones happiness is yourself.
I would have been with her forever, never was interested in other women. However, like everything one can acquire a taste and I certainly have.
It’s been an interesting two years to say the least.
I do see my Dr on a regular basis, and on a scale of don’t give a shit to having a difficult time moving on…………..I’m on the difficult time moving on extreme. He says I’m one of the toughest hangers on he’s seen.
I could write a book, actually I have written a diary and documented everything. This post will go in.
Good luck.
Thank you to everyone for your advice. The truth is she has her therapist thinking I am a monster. Even though she has also told my wife that she needs to find herself. She also called this tour guide who chases clients wives a shark. You see the problem is my wife is such a narcissist that she thinks she will be the last one. That he will settle with her.
Meanwhile our marriage counselor had an interesting take on this she said,
Your wife has two faces they are both very real, you can not do therapy on lies. I am afraid that your wife will wake up one day and find herself very unhappy and in a dark place. She also said that it may be to late for me to pick up her pieces. Meanwhile the wife saw this and said, ” are you all kidding me, I will never hit rock bottom, it may be true for other women but not me”
My therapist who I saw today during my lunch break said that my wife refuses to take any responsibility for anything. She is only self absorbed in her needs. She said she fears I will take wifey back and only get hurt again. Why would an intelligent good looking athletic middle aged guy who is successful want a woman who makes him walk on eggshells, demeans him , cheats on him with a tour guide serial womanizer and has not been a very good wife for any time in recent memory, take her back. I don’t know I just don’t know 34 years including almost 28 married since 22 years old I shared habit to break…plus she was very sexual, what guy wants to pass that up to easily.
But you folks are right I have to just move on from her. She thinks she’s coming home to this house. Wait until I email her during her 12 hour flight and say ” good Riddance”, on,y problem is my therapist thinks if she starts crying, I will give in. Oh I actually have her car here too!
Oh my problem is…
Doug, I know this May be an odd request, but I was wondering if maybe you could create a post about focusing on the positives and not the negatives of the ea as a betrayed spouse.
It was just something that hit me, and I just started thinking about what positives people could come up with.
Such as
We have become better at communicating
We don’t take each other for granted anymore
Or maybe I now know I’m not crazy – now that has to be.a positive.
I found strength I didn’t know I possessed.
Or maybe, I was able to find myself again
I was just thinking about how, we as betrayed spouses, struggle to lift ourselves up out of all the negativity a ea puts on us, and we tend to forget what we have learnt through the process of going through this nightmare. We often overlook our strength, our good heart, our improvements in moving forward each day.
Which honestly, we have all been given a bad hand, we never asked for any of this, but I know we have all grown more wiser, and we learn to depend on ourselves for our own happiness and not rely on someone else.
Any how just a thought.
I think that is a very good idea, SR. Do you feel it would be better as a “Discussion” post or otherwise?
Thanks Doug, I think as a discussion might be the way to go.