Well, it’s been a couple of months so it’s time again for an Open ‘Mic’ discussion. You guys call the shots and discuss the topics that you want to discuss.
This is Open ‘Mic’ #25 and we know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.
Anyways, the floor is all yours!
Feel free to discuss anything…
- What’s on your mind?
- Have any successes to share? Big or small. (It would be nice to hear some of these!)
- Wanna share any lessons you’ve learned recently?
- Got a question? Ask it.
- Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
- Any good books you’d like to discuss?
- What’s your favorite movie of all time?
- What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
- What’s working or not working?
- Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
- What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
- What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
- Tell us a little about yourself.
- Now that football has started up again…What is your favorite team(s)?
- Everything and anything is on the table for discussion!
Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.
Thanks!
Linda & Doug
110 replies to "Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #25"
I’ll kick things off…Last evening Linda was telling me about two couples who were best friends. They hung out all the time, vacationed together and their kids went to school together, etc. It seems that one of the women came down with a rare disease which ultimately proved to be fatal. So, it turns out that her husband and the other woman (the so-called best friend) were having an affair while his poor wife was in the hospital, basically on her death bed. Long story short, the woman divorces her husband and she and this man get married and move to Florida.
Now, I probably see, hear and read more stories of infidelity than the average person, and you would be amazed about how many stories I hear where the affair occurs while one spouse is sick, dying or pregnant. It’s really quite common.
Why do you think that is?
My best friend dated a guy from Manchester, UK, when we were all college students in France. He was one of the funniest and nicest people I have ever met and we all hung out in a larger group of students. Their relationship was getting serious and yet he hesitated to bring my best friend home for Christmas break. She ended up going and found out the reason he hesitated was because of his family situation.
His parents had been BFF’s with the married next door neighbors. During his first year in college his parents divorced and his dad married the wife of the next door neighbor. I am pretty sure his mom and the husband next door started dating as well in a reaction to being abandoned. Anyhow it was one crazy situation and sad. I learned that lesson early on that sometimes it’s impossible to be friends with another couple. If one of the spouses is sketchy it can end badly. Now that is my cynical view. This doesn’t mean married couples can’t hang out together sometimes, it just means that I will never pursue finding another married couple to be BFF’s with. My husband is friends with his boss and we are all around the same age. His boss said we should all go to Hawaii together as married couples. I said out of the question. I don’t trust the guy’s wife. She makes it apparent that she doesn’t love her husband or respect him and that she would take off if the right opportunity presented itself. Cynical much? You bet. But it’s like this. Nothing is new under the sun and each generation will end up replaying all of the same crummy things prior generations did. Our current society makes it easier because of the focus on self and self actualization (to the detriment of someone’s commitments etc). Just my opinion though.
Doug
I don’t know if I am, and perhaps you and other readers here as well, becoming desensitized because of all the reading I’ve done, but I don’t find this shocking anymore. No circumstance with regards to cheating shocks me. Heck I’ve even come to expect it. When I’m in a crowd of people I scan people and wonder who they are cheating with, not if they are cheating. Is that cynical or real? I don’t know.
People are selfish. You’re in pain= have an affair, your business is doing poorly=have an affair, wife/husband spends too much time pursuing his/her own interests=have an affair, children are interfering with your sex life (little bastards) =have an affair, you can’t find a date but still need sex and you’re single=find a married man or woman, hey life is good but you are bored=have an affair. WTF what has happened to integrity, common decency, BOUNDARIES, COMMITMENT???
All I know is the couple you referenced are going to become very familiar with the term “Karma’s a bitch” .
I hear ya TH. Nothing really shocks me anymore, and I too see people out and about and wonder if they’re cheating. In fact, yesterday I was at the local park hiking with my dog as I always do, and as we’re walking back to the car, I see a couple kissing while standing in between two cars. When finished, they each got in their respective vehicles and drove away. I would have bet my house that they were having an affair. Cynical or real?
Doug, I notice that a lot too. I saw one day one car pull up in a car space in front of me at a shopping centre, next minute another car pulls up next to that car. The driver of the first car gets out and jumps straight into the other car. Then drive off. How many times I have seen that, since then amazes me. Maybe I notice these things more now since the sneaky sh?t my ch used to do during his affair.
None the less, it sickens me to think that do many people around us are potentially having affairs, and so many unknowingly being betrayed. Sad…
Extremely well said.
Everyone has an excuse for an affair.
I have a very cynical view of this:
Cheating occurred because the wife ceased to be useful. Shes no longer able to provide all the cooking, cleaning, sex and (most importantly) attention that he deserves. So why would he bother with her? On to the next one. He deserves to be happy after all.
I believe those who cheat while their spouse is sick or pregnant probably is not capable of love in general. After all, real love develops in the not so good times. If you jump ship when things get tough that tells me you’re a shallow human being.
Here’s a question for Doug:
If Linda was seriously ill during your affair? Do you think it would have changed things? Do you think then you would have considered running off with Tanya? Or would the opposite of happened- would it have snapped you out of the affair?
Alice, Thanks for the comment and the question…That’s a tough question indeed. Sitting here today, about 8 years later as a changed man, I would certainly say that it would have snapped me out of the affair. But looking back at my frame of mind when things were at there foggy peak with Tanya, I don’t know that anything would have changed. I probably would have continued the affair and justified it in some way, but it’s really tough to say for sure.
As I sit here on the beach at the Jersey Shore. I am watching a couple, a older man and a younger girl. I wonder if they are having an affair! It seems like she is keeping his interest by being very playful. Playing ball in the sand and when going into the water she pulls out a squirt gun having fun with the water. Then I thought he probably owns a million dollar beach house on the beach!!
Patsy
She was probably his “niece”. Because yeah, young women just can’t wait to sleep with an old man. Money buys a whole lot of ugly!
I have to agree with you there.
I saw an example of that last night. We live in an area where the only store nearby is a country store/deli and gas station. They had hired on a new girl who looked to be early 20’s and cute. Some of the single guys in their 40’s were all crowded around her and falling all over themselves to look cooler than the other guy. They were doing it in a way where it was glaringly obvious. I looked over at the whole scene and she was looking at them with her head tilted and fluttering her lashes. I looked at her and my face must have said “what gives” because she winked at me and gave me a look as if to say she was playing them. OUCH. I am also pretty sure I have seen her with a boyfriend her own age. He is a big, muscular guy. So there is always some kind of motive on the younger gal’s part if she is paying attention to someone much older. She is not with them because of their “age and life experience.” Nope.
You know it is such a cliche you would think these men would get it. How many movies, have been made making fun of men that go with young women when they are soooo much older? Why would anyone put themselves up for such ridicule? I guess they think they are using the young woman as she is using him?
And women who date younger men??? Even worse! Why on earth would they take their clothes off and show off all the baggy skin and wrinkles to a younger guy? I would think they’d go running and screaming out of the room!! Even older women who have kept their shape are better off covering that shit up. Men too. I don’t care how much money you have.
It’s weird, really weird and sick.
She may really have been his niece. I had a colleague once. She had seen an older married. colleague at an event the night before with a young woman on his arm. She started ranting about what a sleaze he was brazenly bringing this young chick to an event with him. That was until someone interjected and pointed out to her that the young woman, also a colleague of all of us, was his daughter!
I have seen so much in life regarding affairs and cheaters.
If I were sick and on my deathbed my H started an affair I would haunt him every day of his life. Hahaha
However I wonder what do people do when their spouse has dementia or Alzheimer’s and lingers for years in a state of not knowing them. I am not saying they abandon the spouse – but what is the right thing with companionship at this point in your life? I think that is a bit trickier to navigate.
This actually makes me think of something that happened a few months after reconciliation.
My husband was getting dressed one morning and I was lying in bed watching him. Now I think my husband is very handsome. But when I look at him I still see that young man I fell in love with 40 years ago. I don’t see the aging man, never have. Matter of fact on his birthday I always remind him that in my eyes he is still that 18 year old boyfriend. But we’ve evolved together.
Well after infidelity we look at situations through a different lens right? So I’m watching him walking around our room naked and I notice the stomach paunch, the sagging skin on his thighs, the less than 6 pack, ha much less, abs, the crepey skin hanging on his arms, the age spots, broken veins in his legs, balding head and I think to myself “WTF, what kind of nerve you must have take your clothes off in front of a complete stranger looking like that?” It takes a lot of self confidence or else he doesn’t look in the mirror very often. I am way to insecure to be naked in front of someone else at this age that didn’t know me when I was all tight and firm and young. Not that I’m not comfortable in my own skin, I just don’t need to share that much!! Heck I don’t even wear sleeveless out in public anymore.
So yeah guys these young chicks that are pretending to make you think you’re all that, trust me they are making fun of you when they are with their girlfriends! I’ve heard it a million time. You are making fools of yourselves
Ever see this? https://www.emotionalaffair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/men-body_image-appearance-opinion-fat-muscly-ren0008_low.jpg 😉
LOLOLOL–No I’ve never seen that but it’s so true!!!
Lol. So true Doug
It is so true, good one Doug.
Th I have too always seen my husband as the same young man I married all those years ago, he never aged to me. Then he cheated and I too now look at him differently, I see his changing body, and too wonder how he could have taken his clothes off in front of his ow. Apparently it was easy for him, because otherwise he wouldn’t have. As for me, the last thing I want to do is be with another man, it does not interest me at all. Yet again, my ch had no problems being with someone else. At times I hate knowing that I find no interest in other men, that he is all I am interested in, faults and all, especially since I now know that he can show interest in other women, that he isn’t feeling towards me my faults and all, the way I do about him.
I see the vows we took as ” to love to hold for sickness and in health til death do us part”. I thought we both felt he same. Now I see that since my ch affair, his vows were ” to love to hold, In health til death do us part, unless something or someone better comes along.
SR. I guess we could all say the same. In sickness and in health or until you have a midlife crisis, blame your unhappiness on your wife and have an affair to make you happy. Amen.
I wonder if anyone would be celebrating then
The OW told my husband that when she met him she thought he was only 30. That’s the idea age for someone her age in her culture to marry. So she probably wanted him to think he was her ideal even though she can very well see he is old. The thing is I was married to him when he was 30 and he definitely does NOT look like he is 30 at all anymore.
I know SR and I think that is what those rat finks depend on. They KNOW we won’t. GGGRR maybe I’ll start taking my clothes off with reckless abandon!! Halloween is coming after all!!!
I was pregnant with our second kid when my husband started the first affair. He has his excuses of escaping real life, he worked hard and deserved to have fun, he did not feel great above himself… Granted these women targeted him and pursed him. He has always been handsome and had a great personality. I do not think he was ever with these women and not drinking. Some of the times excessive if not every time. I know one time he blew above the legal limit but ended up with no ticket since the officer had to go on another call. I know that things like that never happen just one time. I do not use it to make an excuse for his decisions but i am sure it lowered his inhibitions. I do not think these women cared what he looked like undressed. And who knows if he did. I am sure there was some thrill involved and the escape is a big theme for him. I am not sure what these women ever wanted since things were done by dday. He claims they never talked about anything serious or future plans and he made every effort to know as little as possible about their lives.
And yes I was pregnant the first time but this went on for 10 years. I was a great wife, super dedicated, great mother, worked hard in my career, created a great home etc. I also was the one that would initiate discussions about our relationship. I tried to plan date nights. There were always excuses or reasons to push me away. All seemingly valid. We are the same age but I am in great shape and people always think I am many years younger than him. I know when it started I was pregnant but I did not let myself go. In the end this was all about him and in his head. It did not matter how great I looked or what I did. He had to push me away or he would have had to face what a terrible person, husband and father he was for over 10 years. And what is interesting is he was the one that pushed me to have kids. I was hesitant and never pushed him to have the second kid it was his ideas. I never discussed marriage with him either. When we got engaged I was totally surprised. So when he told me he cheated since he did not get to play the field that was not received well. And he cheated since he did not handle changes in his life well that was not well revived. To me they are all excuses to make himself feel better. Can he really become a different person? I mean for him to do what he did for so long isn’t that part of his character and who he is?
Hi Hopeful,
What is your husband’s ‘attachment style”? I am going to guess that he has ‘avoidant attachment’ left over from childhood. Unfortunately, what we experience as children creates the template for future relationships.
http://the-love-compass.com/2014/03/01/understanding-the-needs-of-the-avoidantdismissive-attachment-style/
Anyhow, when these types have affairs, it is for the purpose of not having to get emotionally close to their loved one. For whatever it is worth, I am a huge believer in attachment theory and think an attachment style plays a strong role in our lives.
I am not sure what type of attachment style he grew up with, but I would have guessed attached. Not one style seems to fit, but of course I was not there. He has a terrible memory. It is all puzzling to my therapist based on his family history. What I do know is he was entitled, indulged and had few if any consequences. He was a good kid so nothing major. He was an athlete who received a lot of attention from adults and girls. My therapist thinks the jock/sports aspect and entitlement are major factors. He also feels that his family dynamics play a huge roll but I do not feel comfortable disclosing those details here.
Sarah,
I hear what you are saying about being friends with another couple, however I find it troubling and sad. I feel like if we follow that path then it leads to couples creating separate social lives. And also separate trips with just the guys or girls. And of course if you have bad feelings about the other woman I understand it but to say it is not a good idea to have close couple friends I find troubling. We continue and try to find couples to connect with since we (especially my husband) would like to spend time with his friends and not have it only be the guys. I guess I am ready to be on guard around day other wife vs him being off with the guys. At least I am present. It is funny though most couples do not want to or make it a priority to spend time together so we are finding it challenging. Who knows what is going on in these marriages but even at our worst we were more connected and spent more time together than these couples do. And one other issue is the majority of couples spend so much time managing their kids activities and split up to do so they are rarely together. Is it a way to detach for them or do they feel they need to do it? Either way not healthy at all from an outsider.
Hi Hopeful,
As for being friends with other couples, I am happy to find couples to hang out with casually if there is something in common. But, I am not comfortable being BFF’s with another couple. When I say BFF’s, I mean being enmeshed and having no boundaries. When my husband was in residency, we had some awesome couple friends but they all moved to different states. There is one couple we still enjoy but they live an hour away and all of their time is taken up with their work and small kids.
Sometimes we get dinner invites from couples, but it has never worked out. Incidentally, most of the invites we have received have been from couples who got together during an affair. Each party lost their normal friends during the affair and divorce and are trying to find new friends. I have sat through a couple of those dinners and said “NO WAY” afterwards. I have a real problem with people who leave their spouses when temptation hits. And both of these couples had married because of an affair they were having while married to others. Call me judgmental, but I believe it reflects on a person’s overall character when they marry their affair partner and put their husbands or wives through horrendous divorces. These are not ‘characters’ I want to be involved with on any level. Of course, they were doctor/nurse combinations and it was the nurse who was the spouse poacher. I just don’t respect people like that and won’t make time for them. Is that too harsh?
It’s interesting because I live in an area where people make their families the center of their lives and don’t socialize as often as in other places I have lived. There are no neighborhood BBQ’s, no block get-togethers, or no hanging out in groups. I think the other thing is that we are not members of any religious affiliation. My husband is an “ethnic” Jew but doesn’t practice. We tried to get involved with the synagogue but he was the one who backed off. He didn’t want to spend all of his free time there and this particular one wanted people super involved. So, he emotionally retreated and was very evasive anytime the Rabbi called.
I grew up in a super social home. We hosted large groups of international students and we had a big house with a big in-ground pool and so my house was the social center in late high school and also in college. (This was in a different state than where I live now.)
If we socialize, I have to make it happen.
Anyhow, my round about point is that being friends with couples is OK. It’s the ‘enmeshment’ and relationships without boundaries that I have a problem with. I don’t recommend people find another couple to be BFF’s (enmeshed) with. I don’t think it’s healthy for marriages. I am always open to hanging out with a couple where we really get along, but have yet to find one. Since my husband doesn’t like going to the usual places (like places of worship) so it’s hard to meet new people.
Well, that probably came off as sounding judgmental, but truth be told, both my husband and I are a little more introverted than extroverted. We both have the same Myers-Briggs: E/INFJ. (The E and I are pretty much split down the middle with a small tendency toward introversion on both of our parts.) Maybe that’s why we are content just hanging out one-on-one and reading or watching movies. We hang out together a lot.
Hopeful, I am glad you brought this up because I had never really thought about why we don’t have couples friends or make more of an effort to have joint friends. I have my female friends/acquaintances, but that is separate from my marriage.
Hopeful, how about you? Do you and your husband have couple friends? If so, do any of them know about your personal life?
Sarah, I understand what you mean by enmeshed with another couple. We are not religious at all. I do think that cuts out a key area where others especially in the past would have socialized. We are really only close with my best friends as couples. My best friends and I are on the same page and have a great respect for each other. They are who both my husband and I prefer to spend time together as couples. That part works out well. My husband’s friends honestly do very little with their wives. It has been a topic of discussion. Is this who he sought out (not sure since most are childhood friends) to support his interests. He has tried really hard to foster couples time with his friends with little success.
We are both introverted and homebodies. We share a lot of the same interests. That all works out great but I think it is good to not be so enmeshed with just each other. And so much going out focuses on drinking. We socially drink but my husband has cut back a lot and that is not normal in his friend group. I think it is a major time of transition for him more than me. He is changing how he lives his life. He is happier than ever and says he loves coming home and wants to be with me more than ever. Time will tell…
That’s good that you have some couples you have history with to hang out with. My best friend of almost 30 years lives several states away. She is unmarried and never had or wanted kids. I can imagine that if she got married and they lived close by we would hang out together.
My husband and I don’t drink. My husband never drank and I had to stop socially drinking (wine) years ago due to a very rare disease that I was diagnosed with. It had been with me my entire life but only started to be severe in my early 30’s.
If your husband is an introvert, I wonder how he found time for an affair. I don’t know any data on this but I would think introverts have to work harder at these things. I could be wrong though.
At least the circles we are around especially my husbands it revolves around drinking. It has been a big change for him. He is a lot happier. He knows from all his training that alcohol is a depressant and it did not help him at all. In the moment it was an escape but I can see where that contributed to his shame and unhappiness. I questioned him about it for years. Always had an excuse and yes his friends always drank more and went out more than he did. Not that it made it right but it was a good excuse for him.
He was most comfortable and elevated around these friends including the one who introduced him to these women. He is the most successful too. And yes he is more chatty when he drinks. He is appropriate but he is quiet and a home body. Both his affairs were sporadic. One more than the other. The one that lasted 10 years they only saw each other three times and she initiated it. They would go 6-12 months with no contact. He said he hated it when he heard from them. Ugh I am exhausted. Thanks for all your replies Sarah! And tfw too!
Hopeful
My gut would say yes this is who he is. Ten years is a long time to make the same choices over and over. I’d say it creates a firm lifestyle. It’s no longer a mistake. This was how he wanted to live.
But all that said people can change. But can you live with the fact that NOW he wants to change ? Is that enough for you? He was pretty much absent and cold and dismissive of you for 10 years? What’s different now? Why now? Does he have health issues?
Trust me this is something I ask myself. My husband carried on an affair for almost 4 years and it’s more than I can wrap my head around. And this is one I know about. Maybe there were more before her and I just don’t know??
It comes down to what YOU choose to live with. We will never have all the answers. But what is your own personal line in the sand.
I will tell you and I’ve never told anyone this but I worry if someday I would get very sick or get Alzheimer’s disease I worry that my husband wouldn’t take care of me. I worry he would abandon me. He’s terrible with illness. TERRIBLE. Which is so ironic since the OW mow has terminal cancer, is constantly in the hospital, can’t work, can’t have sex, is hooked on OxyContin and stillin constant pain, I know this from a relative of hers. So imagine his life had he ended up with her. LOL it would have been Karma at its finest!!! And now he knows it. he’s very good to me now and if I weren’t so gun shy I’d say our marriage is better than ever even!!!
So yeah I think too, Why now???
Scary thought about Alzheimer’s disease and your husband’s potential reaction. Hopefully this whole experience has caused him to grow and be a better version of himself.
As for the OW, that is some serious instant karma.
You echo all my experiences and thoughts.
Multiple year EA he denied. Last affair led him to ask for divorce a number of times.
Now I am supposed to believe he “isn’t going anywhere” and loves me blah blah blah.
I basically told him the other night that he has gotten some emotional connection from other women our entire married life. More than he has admitted or that I know about.
Of course it is not true (so he says).
But I keep questioning how he knows for sure he wants to stay married forever. I just keep questioning it. Not sure why after 3 years and all he is doing to change things I now have all these questions.
Last year I was thinking take it one day. Now that is not working for me. I guess I want a guarantee when I know there is no such thing.
Hey TFW,
I also wonder whether or not your husband has an avoidant attachment style. Having to seek emotional connection outside of the primary relationship is the trait that sticks out in my mind that would lead me to believe he has an avoidant attachment style. I think your husband is more or less sincere in his recovery since he admits what he did and is bothered by it. The fact that he admits it as a personal truth is most of the battle. But he needs to be aware that it is easy to go back to unhealthy patterns during stressful times. Thus he needs to work through it with his own therapist and with the help of God if he goes to church. God can and does work miracles.
TH,
This really is the hardest thing I have ever had to cope with. I have gone through various phases during this recovery. For so long I wanted every detail. Over time I realized that I will never know every detail and if I did it would not change the outcome. I cared more about his mindset and where he was mentally at the time this was all going on.
The length of time is a hard one. These relationships were woirqdic. The one that lasted a full 10 years he saw her only three times and would go a year without any communication. He said he would dred it when he would have contact. He is not sure why he continued as he said he always felt worse after he saw her or communicated with her. He can only say he felt like he lost everything already and it was an escape. He sent her one text in reply to a text she sent him regarding a mutual friend and she never contacted him again. The other affair was more local and more often but again they would go 6+ months with no contact. Overall he would avoid her. He broke it off with her a year before dday. Again there was one text related to the mutual friend, he never responded and he has never heard from her.
I think it would have been harder to consider working it out with him if he had not ended it all. He was relieved and done with it all. But then there was the fake email, fake fb, porn, Craigslist… I have so many thoughts about it all. In the first year it was not easier but I felt like it was a known process. I feel almost lost now. If I am triggered or feel something is it too far past dday? What is happy? Can I ever be happy with anyone? I am so happy with myself which is a good thing. My husband is so happy and doing everything right. My therapist is amazed at his transformation and feels it is permanent since he has exhibited all of these changes for so long.
My CH is also terrible with illness. When he started his A, I was beginning menopause. My only symptom was hot flashes. He told me he thought that meant I was dying. He complained of it to the OW. Now, let me add…the other woman had a colostomy bag due to anal cancer caused by an std (HPV). She thought her cancer was in remission during the A. She would often tell him of her fears of reoccurrence and told him she had a “feeling” it was back. Didn’t deter him one bit. Double standard? He said he felt sorry for her. What about me? Nah. A year after (quite by accident) discovery, her cancer returned and she died. He claims he couldn’t care less. Now I have been diagnosed with anal HPV. What are the odds, since he maintains there was no physical contact. He says he will be there for me no matter what. Isn’t that confusing? I don’t think illness has anything to do with it other than it creates an opening for opportunity. A cheater will cheat if they can. I believe that with all my heart.
I am so sorry for you. I wish you did not have to suffer from an illness as a result of your H’s affair.
As a result of the affair you are now trying to make sense of something illogical. Your H’s choices make no sense. How frustrating for you.
I think that is what so many Betrayed spouses struggle with – making sense out of completely illogical and stupid choices that the cheater makes.
Case in point – your H had an affair with someone who was ill. He had the “knight in shining armor syndrome”. He felt needed and reacted in a way that led to an affair.
My H had the same situation he was going to save the OW from her miserable life. She was a train wreck. But again his choices were completely contradictory.
Shaking my head
TFW,
PS- I understand why taking it one day at a time is no longer working for you. Obviously, you don’t ever want to go through the pain of another affair and want a guarantee. Have you told your husband where you are at emotionally? He certainly needs to know.
As for guarantees, this is something that I struggle with all the time. I want some sort of guarantee that my husband will not abandon us the way my ex abandoned me. Trauma does that. Fear still influences me and I fight against fearful thoughts each day. This is something that I contend with to the best of my ability but admit it can color my perceptions. I think that my fear is bigger than an affair. My fear is that one day my husband could turn on me out of the blue like my ex did. That is, any without warning. I keep my fear under control most of the time but sometimes talk to my husband about it. I do a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy on myself when fear starts to get the best of me. Sometimes uncertainty overwhelms me. Because after all, no one can predict what a person will do in the future. Not even the person himself!!
I did tell him what I was thinking and where it stands. This whole thing started because he mentioned something about quality time being high on his list of things required in a marriage. Well that was further down on my list and I started wondering if we are miles apart in what we look for in a marriage.
I started having anxiety about it again when I thought that was in the past.
I have a different view in what I need and it is basically much more simple. To me it is your love, honesty and dependability that make a great marriage. Feeling supported is also important.
I don’t need date night. I can be happy sitting and watching a movie holding your hand. Playing a board game and enjoying a laugh. Going out is nice but it is not a requirement for me. I don’t need gifts or flowers (except if you want to give them but not necessary).
I base my happiness on how you treat me.
It is that simple.
TFW-
Ever read the book about Love Languages? It sounds like you both have different ways you feel loved. There is a free test online at the author’s website to determine love languages:
http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/
Marriages are HARD. Add to that life stressors, different love styles, past baggage, and attachment styles. That makes it even harder. Then add in an affair and it goes nuclear. It is just such a bummer that affairs have to happen in the first place. Nobody wins.
So what does quality time mean to your husband? I wonder if you guys might want some similar things. Have you expressed your needs to him in regards to feeling supported etc?
The whole issue for me started b/c of that book. He must have discussed it with his therapist. The list had 5 things and we rated them in order of importance.
I said 3 of those things are crap and my list was very different. Quality time to me is as stupid as date night (IMO).
I hate planned events all the time. We go out and socialize and have fun. I like to be spontaneous and live in the moment. Last minute plans are exciting to me though not everyone can do that. For some it has to be a plan. Date night in my mind is planned. Kinda boring sometimes.
My requirements in life are minimal. I live simply and feel happy. I don’t need $250 dinners and expensive vacations or gifts. A surprise of an ice cream sundae once in awhile is perfect.
But the list highlighted to me how we are at fifferent points or places. And how I am starting to see my H doesn’t really get “me” when all along I thought he was the one person who did.
And it now bothers me – very much?
Infidelity is the gift that keeps giving that’s for sure. TFW and Sarah….these are some of my struggles as well.
My husband is doing all of the right things….well most anyway. It is a process after all. The battle is all inside of me.
Somedays I feel like it is just one hurdle after the other…..you think you are getting through only to deal with more emotions. The grief of something so precious lost is overwhelming some days. Forty years later I loved him more than when I started……now I question it all.
His sorrow and remorse seem very genuine. For the last almost three years I have been wondering if he is all in and if he really wants to be here. But lately I have been asking myself if I am all in. If I really want to be here. There is real fear about getting too close….of feeling comfortable again. Yet what is a relationship without vulnerability?
Before this happened I often thought of our almost forty year marriage as a pair of my favorite old jeans. Worn and soft and so comfortable. He was home for me. He was my safe place…..I still saw the twenty year old I married…….the aging, it just didn’t matter……I loved the grey hair and twinkling blue eyes. I just saw the beauty of getting older.
How does one really get close again? One day at a time is all I have right now…..and no it doesn’t feel like it’s enough. I don’t want to end up hard and suspicious and full of bitterness. But oh my, taking the walls down and being vulnerable is a huge hurdle.
Exactly my thoughts. 100%.
Hi Shifting,
You know it’s interesting that you say the battle is inside of you.
That is so true. When someone hurts us deeply, we have to fight a battle within ourselves because it unravels everything we thought we knew about a person and a relationship. It hits at the heart of our trust, our assumptions, it makes us wonder if we are valued, if we are or have been living a lie, it makes us wonder if anything in life is reliable or trustworthy, and it creates thoughts and feelings in us that can never be put back. The proverbial spool has been unraveled and the metaphorical the spool has been discarded so that we can never wind up the thread again. So we are sent on a very emotional and very personal journey and it colors everything.
What I experienced was several years ago, but it has changed me as a person and I know I will never get the ‘old me’ back. I think of the proverb of Plato’s cave and watching shadows on the wall– that is until you discover you are in a cave and crawl out to see the light of day. There is no ‘taking back’ the knowledge that you have been left with or the feelings you have been left with. There is only sorting through the mess of feelings and figuring out what the new knowledge means.
Now, my situation is different than everyone’s here and I think that is why I don’t have closure. I have an ex who would rather lie to my face, despite evidence in front of him, than acknowledge what he did or why he did it. It was such a convoluted thing and came so suddenly and without warning. He never admitted why or how he did anything. Next Tuesdays post will tell more about that relationship and so everyone will have more details about why I was never able to have closure. So, I know that if I were to approach him today, which I won’t, he still would not admit what happened even though I have many witnesses who say the exact same thing. He is too full of pride or possibly narcissistic to have an image he wants to present shattered.
The thing that you guys have here is that you have the opportunity to gain some form of closure and work through it with your husbands or wives. I know that doesn’t sound like much, but believe me, it is a lot.
Because it is hard to find closure when the person refused to acknowledge what happened and was capable of doing the deepest harm for what I perceived was no reason.
I know that everyone feels like they are in the dark in terms of information, but if a spouse admits it and tries to work through it, you have hope. I have to just keep guessing why my ex did what he did. I know I am not perfect, but I never did anything to him that was bad. It would have been enough to at least tell me the truth and why than to play vicious mind games and lie even though it was harming me.
I get your point in “why” but it doesn’t matter in the end does it? The cheating and lying still occurred.
I agree. At a certain point it did not matter what he did or why. The things he did hurt me and the reasons are all excuses. All I know no matter how low I ever felt in life I never would have done what he did. I know who I am and I do not compromise for anyone. Any explanation he has given me is just an excuse. Sure it might help us understand and/or prevent future infidelity but that is it.
I do not feel like I changed but I feel like the struggle is within me. If I am an honest and trustworthy person then how can I ever trust myself enough to trust him fully. What kind of marriage do we or can we have. In many ways it is amazing really a dream right now. Yet I feel more distant and lost from it than ever before. I also think is there any man out there that could meet my expectations? Is this as good as it gets? Or am I better on my own alone? I see someone like. Glennon Doyle Melton work for four years on her marriage and realize they need to separate. I give her so much credit and I wish there were more open discussions about it.
I am in the same place.
Now he wants the marriage. Now I sm the next thing since sliced bread.
Soooo I have this idea that if I was so great and wonderful why would you need to cheat in the first place.
I wonder if we have what it takes to remain together in our retirement (about 15 years from now). I wonder if he will become disillusioned and leave.
Having recognized all that has transpired during the course of our marriage, I also wonder if I wouldn’t be better off single. That is not to say he’s not trying his hardest, but when you are faced with the most hateful things a person can say and/or do because of their midlife crisis (an excuse for an affair) then it is hard to recover and rebound.
He admitted a few years ago that our relationship felt transactional. Only on his part. How nice to hear that!
I think it is hard to know what to do and what to believe when you were living your life thinking how lucky you are to have the relationship you do, only to find out that the other partner is not even on the same planet regarding their perception of the marriage.
I agree – how do you regain your footing?
I think my approach -The one I am going to return to is making sure that my life is happy and complete. If he’s there, great. If not, oh well.
I do agree with that– the fact that the cheating and lying still occurred regardless.
I think the sticking point for me is that my ex played a HUGE mind-game and would have rather seen me go crazy than to admit there was someone else. Believe me, I asked several times and I always got the same answer which was along the lines of: “No, who do you think I am?” and then he would turn it back on me. He said and did things to make me think I was losing it rather than budge an inch when I asked. That is the sticking point– that he would rather see me go nuts than admit one ounce of the truth. I had to piece everything together from all these third party sources who had seen them together both during the time we lived together and after I moved out. He was doing gaslighting to the extreme. I did not know what gaslighting was at the time or even what narcissism looked like. It’s hard to find the words for what it felt like. But, the fallout has been lots of fear.
Tfw and Sarah, i have been thinking the same thing do I just focus on me. Not look ahead. I have the same worries. All I hear is I cannot wait to travel with you, you are the perfect person for me, it is going to be so great when we retire… I think too so I have not changed at all but as you said now I am the best thing since sliced bread.
Under all this is a fear in me it is a fake and not going to last. I really feel that fear. I know I am trying to protect myself. And I look around and none of my friends ever had as good of a marriage as we did and now for sure don’t. Maybe their spouse did not cheat on them but they are so disconnected and don’t really like each other that much. So hard!
UPDATE:
My dad wants to meet up with me and go out for a meal with me. He was texting me all night the other night – I would get a text, once every hour (probably when he was out and was telling the OW he was at the toilet; which is when he would text her). During our text conversation I asked him if he even cared and love my mum, and he replied with: “Yeah, of course I do…”. He seems really eager to go out with us (me and brother) – though my brother says he doesn’t want to. I would only go out with him just to annoy the OW, as I know she would be very jealous that he is spending time with me, instead of her (selfish cow). I also got really angry before our text convo and said that she was cheating on him with someone else (which I wouldn’t put it past her), and he replied with: “Really?, Who?”, whereas (if I said someting like that before) usually he would never reply to me at all and dismiss it. Personally I think he wants her to cheat on him with someone, so therefore he has a reason to come back to us, rather than admitting he is wrong with what he has done – do you think things are NOT too good with him and the OW? I also asked him if the OW is controlling with him, and I had no answer at all – so I assume that means “YES!”.
Furthermore: his parents are all in hospital; his father is in hospital from a bad fall, his step-dad (who is really his real dad in a way) has just had leg surgury, and his mother who had dementia is in hospital from a fall. He is seeing them all in three different hospitals. Usually he wouldn’t have bothered in the ‘Affair Fog’, but now he is going and seems eager to do so… Some of his friends have said that they think the ‘Honeymoon Period’ is over (already) and I he is coming to terms with what he has done.
This is good news
Yeah.
But I feel as if I am doing all the organizing of it. He has this thing in his head that it is me that should get in contact with him, (instead of the other way around). He has done wrong so it is him that should be getting in contact with me and my brother – NOT the other way around.
You are right. Your father SHOULD be the one contacting you.
But look at who/what you are dealing with.
Please know you will always need to be the “adult” in that relationship. Look at his past. All he has done.
Please don’t expect him to say “sorry”. He is a coward when it comes to those kinds of situations.
Take it for what it is for now. He may see you a few times and disappear. He may be around longer than that. Who knows? Not even your dad knows.
I hope it works out for you. But just realize what you are dealing with.
Glen non Doyle had a lot of problems herself. Her husbands infidelity was just one. Now she’s sidled up with that Narc Elizabeth Gilbert for whom I have no regard or respect.
Glen non Doyle has made a fortune out if misery. Now she’s off in book tours and lectures and has no time for her marriage. Whatever works for her but she doesn’t set any bar for me
I agree that Elizabeth Gilbert ranks low on my list too. And there are many things I cannot relate to in her world at all. I wish though as a society that infidelity was dealt with more in the open. I too am contributing to not shinning a light on it.
Sarah
I think gaslighting is the worst thing one human being can do to another. You do feel as if you are going mad.
That guy was a covert narcissist. And as awful as your experience was you should be grateful you found out before you had anymore invested in the creep. Can you imagine if you’d had children with him??? Holy cow you were protected. All you lost was a house!!! Heck there’s plenty of houses. Thank God he’s out of your life. I think you were truly protected. I know it didn’t seem so at the time. But you got out by the skin of your teeth and none too soon
Elizabeth Gilbert is a serial cheater. Her ex husband had a whole expose about her but she bought him off with 4 million dollars. She’s the classic narcissistic OW. She wrote in the NY times she loved thinking she was getting one over on another woman by having an affair with the MM. She disguises herself as some all knowing free spirit feminist. She’s anything but. She hurts women. She’s a snake oil sales person. Glendon Doyle is not far behind.
When I read that NY Times article I could not believe it. I was never a fan but it was eye opening what she said. And the way it is so matter of fact for her. And like you said with almost a sense of satisfaction. And didn’t she also talk about once she won someone over she would get bored and move on. I agree that is such an act the free spirit seems so fake to me now. and it seems they act authentic and it seems to be an excuse for them.
Hopeful
I think you are living an authentic life. You don’t go around pretending it’s all rosy. You know what it takes to make a marriage work. You know where all the dirty laundry is. You know who and what your husband is. Your friends don’t. Maybe what WE have IS the real deal?? Maybe we are the smart ones to live with our guard up and not fully trust?
Yeah I’m adored too. I got told every single freaking day how wonderful I am and you know? I agree!!! I am great, I deserve to be adored. And he better damn well adore me!! I’m never settling for any less. EVER.
I agree no know I am authentic and I think my husband is too. It is just a question of is this real and sustainable for the long term. After all of this I know I need to watch out for me first and foremost in addition to my kids. I sleep good every night and always have because of the way I lead my life. Now more than ever I look at others and know it is not all that it seems. You just never know. My hauband tends to give everyone the benefit of doubt and feel bad for them. I think this probably added to his grass is greener and I deserve to have fun and do what I want attitude. He has changed a lot and it seems genuine. Time will tell and I try to focus on today and not look too far ahead.
I think my CH would take a date to my funeral.
I have a question. It has been 3 1/2 years since D-day. My CH had a 15 month long affair with a former girlfriend. He says there was nothing physical going on, but I have solid proof otherwise. He maintains that he didn’t know he was doing anything wrong (texting everyday over 200 times, calling up to 5 times daily, deleting text and sending pictures of his penis). He says that, since he didn’t have sex with her, it wasn’t that bad. He says he was just having fun f-ing with her. Why is he sticking with that? I believe that the truth will save our marriage, but he won’t budge. Why is that? Anyone?
So many tears,
If you have proof then you know. And some people do have emotional affairs only. In my opinion it does not matter if it is physical or emotional. Either is painful and a sign of a damaged individual. I know my husband sees his physical affairs as worse than any im’ing he was doing with women. To me it is all the same. And to be honest I feel strongly most of time there is more going on that they divulge. That was the case for my husband and it seems for others. Just like most people do not drink and drive one time. They do it over and over. In the end if you are not okay with what he is doing even if this was the extent then you need to make that clear to him. If he dismisses that as no big deal I think it is an issue. if he is not listening or hearing what you are saying you could go to a marriage counselor together. And I pushed for full disclosure and no contact. It was a must if we were to move forward then the other boundaries were established after that.
Yes, I do know. However, he continues to deny. How am I supposed to stay with this man while he is in such denial? He is lying through his teeth. Isn’t there anything I can do to help him see that the truth will set him free? I am so close to giving up!
I would seek out professional help. If he still has contact then for me it is not over even and there is the fog they speak of. I know my husband sees things totally different now at 18 months out than dday or along the way. He is shocked by what he said and thought at the time. For me a therapist was what helped the most. I found someone that specializes in marriage counseling and is pro marriage it is worth working towards and safe since there are therapist who are not pro marriage.
We went to twice to a therapist. He told me on the way, to the appointments, that he knew how to “play” the therapist and it wouldn’t help anyway. It didn’t. There is no further contact with the OW. She died over a year ago. Coming out of the fog, he said lots of hateful things. He denies he said them now.
I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news here.
SoMany Tears. My husband had a four-year emotional affair back in the late 90s. This was before texting and email being so prevalent. I knew from the first moment I met this girl she was after more than a simple friendship with my husband and I told him so.
For the next four years they were friendly. At around the third year I started to get a sense that things were changing and she was becoming much more interested in him. I used to ask him what was going on and to please tell me the truth but he always denied there was anything inappropriate or anything that crossed a line.
This friendship did not end until I finally blew up one night and would not speak with him for two days. He finally got the message I was no longer going to tolerate this. He never admitted anything, gaslighting the entire time and stonewalled at every opportunity.
Fast-forward to 3 years ago. He started another emotional affair that quickly developed into a physical affair and after a few months he was ready to divorce me.
My biggest mistake was letting him get away with the first affair. Even though I put my foot down I basically had no proof of anything so I chose to move on. In hindsight it was a mistake by not confronting the issue.
It led him to believe he could continue that pattern of behavior but just keep it a secret from me. I now know that he has had other emotional affairs that were secretive that I did not know about.
He now admits that the four-year friendship was disrespectful and inappropriate. However he has not admitted to any other emotional affair with any other woman since then (except for the last OW that almost caused our divorce).
I don’t want to portray my husband’s behavior to your spouse. The only point I am trying to make is that if they cannot ichnology when they have done something wrong there is a possibility the behavior will continue because in their mind there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
How said he cannot even be honest with himself. You should leave your husband with his thoughts: If you wouldn’t act like that if I was standing next to you that’s a strong indication that what you were doing is wrong.
And we all know what he did constitutes cheating.
So sorry you are going through this.
I do think that it is an issue if there is not admitting and working through why and how it happened. And also ways to prevent future betrayal. I will say it will never happen but I am very aware now. We have both worked really hard especially my husband on his thoughts, decisions and behaviors. This has been critical. In the beginning he was defensive and took anything I said personally. Over time he let down his guard and he really has a new attitude and way he wants to live his life. But what I have realized is this will it stop the working on our marriage. These topics are a continual theme with us as topics of discussions. If we want to have an authentic marriage we will continue to work at this as long as we are together. I think every person needs to know what they can tolerate. If his attitude continues to be no desire to work on the relationship with you and goes into therapy with that attitudes I can see where it would be frustrating.
SoMany Tears.
Your H is in denial. He is trying to convince you he did nothing wrong and will go to any lengths to achieve that.
I want to say it must be in the cheating manual 101 that after you are caught you will lie.it doesn’t matter if the proof is in black-and-white, the cheating spouse will try to manipulate the situation to save themselves.
I was in your exact position. After DDay 2 my husband was trying to do everything he could to make amends. I was so happy that we were finally moving past all of the crap we were facing during his affair. At the time I did not know about the affair.
When the other woman sent me emails about one month later, I was completely devastated all over again. The emails clearly showed a completely different set of events than what he had been telling me for the last month.
Needless to say I realized the extent of the affair. I also realized what a coward and liar I had been married to for so many years.
The next two years were an uphill battle because he just could not tell the truth, even though I knew more than he would admit to because I read those emails.
I firmly believe so many cheating spouses will never admit to anything they don’t have to. It seems as though your husband is in that camp.
I think you have to decide whether this is a dealbreaker for you. Does he lie about everything or does he only lie about the facts surrounding his affair? It is interesting to note that for so many people, they believe if sex is not involved then there was never any cheating.
I think you can continue to torture yourself in trying to get the truth or you can accept the fact that your husband is never going to tell you the truth. If you can accept him as a liar and cheater then you can start to heal yourself.
I think we waste time in trying to make the cheating spouse be honest and truthful when we should acknowledge from the beginning it is never going to happen.
My therapist would suggest spending the time focusing on yourself and your reaction to the situation versus trying to change the cheater.
It has taken me 3 years but I am better when I focus on me instead of him. If I am happy that is good. If I have an issue I address it w/ him. However if I think he is not telling me the truth I am very upfront. I have a line that I use once in a blue moon when I have to. It goes something like this: “i’m sorry that you are not willing to tell me the truth. I was hoping we could both be honest with each other.” It lets him know I KNOW he is lying.
And I walk away. No need for further discussion. Hasn’t happened in awhile but it works for me.
I had a look back at our 28 yr marriage and I told him recently he has gotten some emotional connection from many other women the entire time we have been married. How sad.
I’m about 4 years out from D-day and am wondering what others are still struggling with? Are there common problems to battle still, this far out from D-day?
I still run into the OW since we live in neighboring towns. The triggers are still there, yet not as pronounced and I find myself getting back on solid ground much faster. My CS struggled with transparency early on and attempted to try and ‘manage’ my anger and reactions through careful editing of information. He also struggled with anger and a few other set backs. Due to these early fumbles, it has taken a while for me to even consider a future with him. He has done a lot of personal work, but I was in a very ‘meh’ phase about our marriage for the first two years after D-day. I literally stayed only because I couldn’t face the damage a divorce would have on our kids.
Only this past year have I started to consider a future with him again. Our kids will be out of the house in a few years and I feel like I have to fully move on to make this work between us. The trouble is, I just don’t trust him and I don’t think I ever will again. I wish someone who has had success could describe what it’s like to have a happy marriage when that part of it is lost for good?
It just seems like such an integral part of a relationship to me. Can I ever truly be happy with someone I cannot trust?
My therapist would say can you accept the fact your H is a liar & cheater?
If you can accept it then you could be happy living with him.
You just will look at him in a different light. For the rest of your life. The rise colored glasses are off now.
He has shown you who he is – not what you thought he was.
I had a hard time with this. I really did. But I view our marriage differently too. It has all changed.
I have to accept it for what it is.
Coaster Shock
What I consider when I have questions like yours and I do, is was I truly happy/satisfied in my marriage pre DDay. The answer for me is yes, as happy/satisfied as I am now.
Sure there’s always going to be niggling questions about that time but is that worse than what bothered you about your relationship pre DDay?
I think it’s a trade off somewhat. Sure you could divorce the bum (lol mines a bum too) and that brings on a whole other set of problems or you stay for many reasons (children are a great reason to stay if you can) and try to rebuild.
I don’t put much into trust. Having it or not having it is NOT going to determine my happiness or satisfaction quotient. I trusted before. Trusted to a fault and well that was a huge problem for me. So why sweat it now. I don’t ever want to go back to being that trusting.
I’m 5 years out and am finally getting there. Life is what it is or what YOU choose it to be. Overthinking this trust factor is wayyyy to stressful. I struggled with trust and forgiveness and just gave up. I was trying to live up to someone else’s standard of trust and forgiveness not mine. So I quit. When I did that is when forgiveness and and a wise trust started to grow. You can’t push this stuff but you also don’t have to beleaguer the point either.
I hope when you run into the OW you are keeping your head high and know how much better you are than her.
I can say that I was truly happy/satisfied in this marriage…before D-day. Eleven years of wonderful times. We never even had an argument. Not one. We laughed, had so much fun, great sex, etc… My CH was attentive and a great dad. He worked hard and I had no complaints. Then I accidentally uncovered a separate life my CH was living. He’d been cheating the entire relationship. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around. I feel as though I was used/tricked. My CH told one of the OW that he was “conning” me. So, I can’t base staying or leaving by how our marriage was. What was so perfect was obviously a lie.
SoManyTears. Please discount The incredibly stupid things your spouse may have said during his affair.
I will tell you that one of the things that my husband told me during his affair was that the only reason I ever married him was to spite my parents. I wonder if he ever really felt true love and if he didn’t have sad. I would say I was a good wife to him and I loved him almost from the moment I met him.
For him to say something like that was just plain evil.
So now I may not try as hard to be the perfect wife. I now try harder to please myself instead of putting everybody else first.
Honestly it is hard to erase those words from your mind. He was probably just trying to paint a completely different picture of himself to impress her. She’s an even bigger idiot for wanting to be in a relationship with someone who would say something like that.
I think what has worked for me is that I have protected myself financially. I had my husband sign a post-nup so that he has no access to my money or assets. I have made sure to protect myself and my children in case this ever happens again.
So I guess it could be said that I am “conning” him but I don’t look at it that way because I really do love him but I need to protect myself. I guess that is some type of revenge in a small way.
What I find interesting is in the early days after dday and even the first year I felt like I had some idea of what I should do. As this healing continues it is less clear to me. I am only at 18 months but I have similar feelings. I do think trust is relative. I am not sure there is any person I could be with and trust as I did with my husband before dday. And now looking back I feel like for me at least it was an assumed and blind trust. Granted he lied directly to my face and was very discrete and did not see these women often. So I really feel like I would have had to live my life like a detective to find out. And I did push and continue to discuss or marriage and why he seemed distant. He always has a legitmare excuse. We have a lot of history together over 25+ years and kids too. If we did not have kids would I stay, I am not sure. But that is not the case. I decided early on I would give it my all as I always have yet protecting myself more this time. I am still too guarded but I am working on being more vulnerable. My therapist said that is the key is to find that balance.
Another thing that my husband has said at least for us if I feel he is distant then that is when I need to worry. It is hard since everyday life can make this tricky but I do speak up and confront him if I feel any distance etc. None of this is easy but I feel like I am doing the right thing now. And I never thought I would say this but in a way it has gotten more challenging as time has passed.
Hopeful. Your H makes me a bit mad. If you feel distant you should worry.
Seriously??
He cheated on you. I think he should be able to say that if HE feels disconnected or distant he will tell you. You should not have to guess or worry. He will MAN UP and do the right thing.
Address his issues or problems. Not run away or hide from them or cheat.
Honestly it is like they are children or emotionally stunted or something. Yeesh!
I agree. I feel like I am dealing with a lawyer. I confronted him on this and he had this explanation that he would never do anything at all and has been transparent about everything. He then stated it was his way of telling me that this would be when I should be concerned. But with his job I feel like he can be distant. He has made some big changes and notices now when he is distant and makes sure to tell me. It is exhausting!
So glad that this blog is open mike as I need to vent.
Moving past the 3 year mark of the divorce being final, I felt good. Happy, having fun and being respected and actually feeling that I mean something to someone.
When low and behold I get a Happy Birthday email. I don’t respond. Are you kidding he didn’t even remember my birthday when he was in love with his soul mate!
Then Thursday night I got an email, just want to say hi.
Wtf are you kidding me??????
And 30 minutes later an email. I’m visiting my cousin, wondered if you’re around????
WHAT?????? Unfortunately the cousin lives down the street from me. Very nice people actually the only ones on that crazy side of the family the speak to me.
Yesterday I was fighting a battle because my boys insurance on their cars was due by 5:00 or the policy would be cancelled. He received the cancellation letter last week as I did too.
I make my payment why can’t the 6 figure man?? He made the payment at 4:45.
I received another email last night, would you like to meet for a drink some night?
WHAT??????
I know I shouldn’t have but I had to respond, I have nothing to say and you have said enough.
His response was, ” How about catching up? We can talk about our amazing sons and the pride they give us.
WTF! (Excuse my language ). I just don’t understand this sociopath narcissist !!
What is his problem???
I know I need to change my email, but I need to keep it opened for the kids until I change my insurance. I had it put in the divorce decree that he has to pay their car insurance.
Just fed up needed to vent.
Happy weekend all!
Classic narcissistic hovering. Google it! NO CONTACT! I got a Facebook invite 30 years after my divorce! Err…no! Be strong!
I am sure his attempts to contact you are frustrating. And he just likes to exert his control over you in any way he can (paying the insurance at the last minute).
But if he continues to try and see you, you should feel good that he is now groveling. For your attention. For some type of interaction. He is showing his desperation.
I would continue to ignore him. Save every email in case you decide to file harassment charges against him.
But I would gloat in my own mind that he is just missing a few chips. He is not wrapped too tight as my brother would say.
I wouldn’t get angry I would just laugh when you see his emails. His desperation is showing. Together with his other wonderful traits – narcissistic patterns, clueless mind boggling choices, self centered and self absorbed persona, etc.
Be thankful you moved on.
You deserve better and I think it is killing him he can no longer control you. From experience I dated someone like your exH. Serial cheater and very self centered. Liar and manipulative. A friend glued me in to his cheating. So i dumped him. He called me for years after.
I realized he was just a loser and desperate. His life wasn’t all that. And it appears neither is your exH’s otherwise why call someone who wants nothing to do with you?
Because it is a GAME to him. He just wants what he cannot have and it is the thrill of the chase. For him. I am sure if he was able to get you back the same cycle would continue.
He doesn’t love you as much as he loves the thrill of the chase. How twisted is that?! And I have seen it before too many times.
You deserve better and you should take his desperation and contact with you as a sign – you are better than him. ?
TFW
You are right on with your post
I read something interesting. Actually heard a psychologist on the radio talk about the subject and I believe all cheaters do this. It’s called Ethical Amnesia. Please Google it. It explains why cheaters “don’t remember”. Very good information.
Rachel
OMG your ex is the poster child for narcissism. Yes Narcissistic Hovering is right!!! He’s crazy. Stay away. NC is the only option. Also Grey Rock but insist he pay the damn premiums!!!
Thank you all for your comments. I will google all information given. I like to understand this nut as much as possible. I have saved all emails. It’s been 3 years already and they still keep coming!!!! In August my insurance comes due and it will only be my car and my house. My boys and ta-ta will have to figure theirs out for themselves.
Can’t have anything to do with him. And if he shows up at my front door because he’s visiting his. Cousin, I won’t open it and call the police.
It’s in the divorce decree not to harass the ex.
But we all know rules don’t apply to him!
Happy Monday!!
Thnank you all again. Love this site!!
Rachel.
Just know it is killing him that he cannot control you. His twisted mind is telling him he can still control you and that is a huge issue for his narcissistic self-absorbed personality.
The more you disengage (though I can’t imagine how as you have already disassociated yourself from him almost 100%) the more itvwill torture him
It is all about control.
Rachel
I think he does it for entertainment. He thinks he knows you. He is so deluded. He doesn’t want to believe you have moved on and that you are and should be at his disposal at any whim.
It’s all about control and narcissistic supply. He got it before from you and he’s testing the waters to see if you will bite again. Don’t do it. He is sick.
Oh yes The First Wife he is so self absorbed !!!!!
I have been really good as far as replying to his emails until the other night when I said to him that I have nothing to say to him. I won’t answer the last email and hopefully he’ll go away.
But I know… He’ll be back!!!!!
UGH!
Been doing a lot of googling!!! Wow I amazed of this new information about ethical amnesia and narsarsistic hovering. He is a poster child for both!!!!! He was text book on his mid life crisis, narsarsistic behavior and now this. Key is no contact.
Thank you all for your help. I’m still learning.
Hi Rachel. I don’t think you are learning SS much as you are learning to navigate the path. I think it is challenging to figure out how to deal with him as you have children together.
it would be so much easier to just not have to deal with him at all. No $ issues or child rearing issues or any interaction at all should be the goal.
One day it will happen. And then one of your kids will get married and you will have to see him at the wedding – yeesh!!
Rachel
Awww Sweetie we are all still learning. There’s also some good YouTubes on narcissists and narcissistic behaviors. They live to engage in mindfuckery. Hugs to you Rachel
TryingHard,
Love it… mindfuckery! You made my day.
Tabs
I’m a regular wordsmith aren’t I??? I can’t claim originality. See it on another blog all the time ?
Haha mindfuckery. Word of the day. Oh that mindfucker!
Thanks all!!
I have recently separated from my husband. After a roller coaster ride for three years, he ended up cheating on me with the same woman. This time I had nothing to say to him. I asked him to leave finally. Cheaters don’t ever change. They are truely selfish. I feel very sad but little relieved that I don’t have to go through this again. I really don’t want to do anything with him now but since we have two kids together, I see him every weekend. It’s not easy. I do lot of things to occupy myself but it’s one of those days when u have mixed emotions of anger, sadness and feeling tired. He knew if he cheats again , we will not be together again and our family will break. He still did it. He texted that he was very sorry. I wanted to break his face! Sorry would not change a thing now. He exactly knew what he was doing and whom he was breaking..but now I remain silent. What’s the point of indulging in any argument with such a person who knowingly destroys everything. Just felt like sharing.
He texted sorry? What is he in middle school?
So sorry it had to come to this. I understand your pain. Too bad your CH did not.
I hope you and your children emerge from this drama and you can find some peace and happiness. You deserve it.
Get a good lawyer too.
Aww Amy I am so sorry. You don’t deserve this. Yes I understand the “wanting to break his face”. And no sorry just doesn’t cut it 🙁
You know this is every BS greatest fear. And it’s a real and valid fear. No most don’t change. They may talk the talk but find it very difficult to walk the walk. You’re doing the right thing for you and your children. Someone needs to be the adult and set a good example of what will not be tolerated.
Of course your sad and angry. Totally normal right? Why do you have to be with him when he sees the children? Can’t you let him pick them up alone and you go do what you need to do? Or do you have some kind of supervised visitation agreement? This indeed would be very difficult. Remaining silent is the single best thing you can do UNTIL you get your lawyer. Then just let your lawyer be your mouthpiece. He made the decision not to communicate when he unilaterally decided to end you marriage by continuing the affair. Screw his apologies!
I’m very confused on how I should be feeling my husband has had a mistress for over a year now he’s been trying to break up with her and has no found out that she also have another boyfriend.he is very distraught over this and it has left me feeling lonely and vulnerable. I need advice please
If you’ve read much of our blog or have been around for awhile, you will know all about Linda’s brother’s situation. Well, he called her this morning and informed Linda that his ex-wife suddenly and unexpectedly died early this morning. There are some powerful emotional dynamics going on right now between her brother and his kids with respect to this situation. Lots of anger, guilt and resentment at the moment from what I’m hearing.
Anyways, we have to head to NC this weekend for the funeral and to be with our nieces and nephew, and probably won’t be back until Tuesday of next week. (Thus, there is a good chance we may be a day or so late with our weekly post.)
I have a feeling this is going to be a difficult and uncomfortable experience.
Doug, Linda, I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of Linda’s brother exw. I can only imagine how everything that has happened would cause resentment and regret between him and his children, right now. my heart breaks for her children and hope God gives them strength and showers them with love. May their mother rip.
Again, I’m so sorry for your loss. Hugs to all of you.
Doug and Linda
I am so so sorry to hear this. It makes me so sad. I have a feeling she died of a broken heart.
All that matters now are your nieces and nephews from that marriage.
Keeping all of you in my thoughts.
Th, I too feel a broken heart played a part. It’s so sad,
Doug and Linda,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I will be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.
Thanks for your support, guys. I’ll probably post about the whole thing when we get back. The trip will get even more interesting as we are taking Linda’s parents with us as well. Her mom always has some ‘interesting’ perspectives to share with respect to her son.
Oh lord Doug, please don’t tell me the brother/ex-husband/father will be at that wake or funeral 🙁
How inappropriate would that be???
My heart goes out to their children.
Well…I’m unclear as to whether he will be, but it just so happens that he was down in NC (with his new wife) babysitting his 1 year old grand child for a week while the normal sitter (the other grand mother) was on vacation. So he is down there and I really do have a gut feeling he will attend the funeral – or at least the visitation. We shall see. I’m sure his wife will not dare come within 10 miles of the place though.
Doug, I really hope the his new wife does not attend the funeral. To me that would feel like a punch in the stomach. For his children’s sake, I hope he does not take her, if he attends. Yet somehow I feel that his exw passing will eventually be his and his new wife’s undoing. Just a gut feeling, I have.
Lots of cyber hugs to you Linda and your all of your family, during this hard time.
Hey SR. Thanks for the hugs! I’m sure his new wife won’t get anywhere near the funeral. His kids would freak out and it would get ugly.
Doug, that’s good, because these children, have been through enough, they don’t need her around making them feel worse. I can’t even imagine now they will ever accept her as a part of their family, she may be their dads wife, but to them she means nothing, I truly don’t think that will ever change.
I’m sorry Doug, I feel pretty emotional about what has happened to your family. cherish and hold onto your family tight Doug, on times like this what matters most is brought to mind, and life is just too short.
I am thinking of you all, please take care of your beautiful family.
Th, it will be very hard for him to face everyone, after what he did. I do hope he doesn’t take his new wife, because that would be more inappropriate. I believe she is feeling quite happy with herself right now.
I have regular communication with the husband of the OW. Anyone else in this position. It’s been 2 months since dday.