Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #18

microphoneIs it really the end of April already???  It is indeed.  And it is also that time again to talk about whatever you want to talk about!

This is Open Mic #18 and we know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences – or maybe just do a little venting.

Anyways, the floor is all yours!

Feel free to discuss…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small.
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
  • Summer is coming up…Any grand vacations planned? (We’re taking a family vacation to Acadia NP in Maine and yet-to-be-determined points in between.)

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

 

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111 Responses to Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #18

  1. TrustingGod April 28, 2015 at 5:36 pm #

    I have been up and down emotionally for the past 15 months. I have had almost no self-esteem because I am at home with my 1 1/2 year old, while my husband works from early afternoon and then his second job until 3 or 4 in the morning. He has made me feel worse about myself during this time because he just will not do the things I need to heal. When he feels attacked, which seems to be always, he does everything he can to turn it into my fault, and then to somehow bring up one of my issues or insecurities so that he hurts me more and more. At this point, I feel like he really does want a divorce, because he doesn’t want to do any work on our relationship. He just wants the status quo–I listen to him when he wants to talk, I act happy and positive and lovey-dovey all the time, I never ask him to change his behavior towards me, I accept that he will spend all of his free time with friends or extended family members and should be grateful when he is home to do yard work or stay here watching TV and ignoring me unless he needs something. And since I just can’t do that, just can’t be a doormat, and had to talk about what I need and how I feel, we are back to the cold shoulder and thinking of divorce. We have separated two times already before his EA (and possible PAs through the years, for all I know) because of his neglect of me and our family, and he has always made promises and never followed through. I have no job and no money and huge debts and three sons at home, the youngest of which I can’t find a babysitter for, because he screams and cries unceasingly, or else I would have left or made him leave already. I feel like he keeps giving me false hope, occasionally doing something so that I will keep trying, but he doesn’t try to understand me at all and has a plethora of excuses for not doing what I asked. I’ve read some topics on this, but I never seem to get a straight answer: how do you really know when enough is enough, and that there really isn’t any hope?

    • TryingHard April 29, 2015 at 12:05 pm #

      Trusting
      Do you not have any family that can help with your children? Also there is Head Start which helps with daycare for families with financial problems. You need to start making plans without him unless you want to live like this the rest of your life. You could put up with the status quo as he insists and start squirrling away money for your exit. Frankly your H sounds like an unrepentant ass, spoiled brat!

      Your situation sounds bleak but one thing that isn’t bleak is you are a smart woman. You need to take care of yourself and your children. You should also talk to a lawyer but I know this could be hard to find the money to do it. Maybe family could help with that as well?

  2. antiskank April 28, 2015 at 6:19 pm #

    Trusting, I think this is a question we all ask. We all have different limits and a line in the sand. If there is something that you just can’t live with or live without, only you can know that. If you are not getting what you need to heal, to move on, and to be happy with him – it’s something you need to decide.
    Believe me, I know that 15 months sounds like forever to still be in this limbo and I feel so bad for you but I know that for me it went on for much longer, all the while with me asking myself these questions. It is almost 3 years for me and I have good and bad days and I think the main change since D-day has been in me. I have regained myself and my confidence separately from the issues with him. I still have a long way to go and so does our relationship but I am getting a little better each day. We all do to some extent. Maybe it’s just that the shock wears off a little and we realize that we are even better than we thought we were in the beginning.
    It helps to talk to supportive people and counsellors to bounce your ideas and feelings off them. The people that contribute to this site are very insighful and even on good days, I come back to see all the new comments. I know that sometimes you must feel that your life is over and it is so difficult to go forward, but don’t give up on a happy future without a fight. Take care of yourself and your baby.

  3. antiskank April 28, 2015 at 6:51 pm #

    I had an interesting experience last night while watching TV with my CH.

    We had started watching a show called “Sext Up Kids”. It was all about the sexualization of kids, especially girls at such a young age. Everything from the heavy makeup and sexy outfits that are shown on kiddy beauty pageants to the music videos that kids are exposed to was mentioned. Thong underwear, “bras”, crop tops and fish net stockings are availale for toddlers these days, not to mention the dolls made for 5 and 6 year old kids are dressed in similar fashion. Tiny girls like to choose outfits that they think will make them look sexy, even though they don’t really know what it means. 11 and 12 year old girls are sending topless and nude pictures of themselves to boys hoping to be noticed and liked.

    Boys are watching hard core porn at alarming rates and assuming that this degrading and often violent form of sex is normal and treating girls accordingly with little respect. They place value on girls that look sexy or hot or will put out, rather than respecting them as people with wants and desires of their own. This all makes for some pretty messed up relationships and a sick society in general.

    I found it very interesting tht my husband was so disturbed by this show that he asked me to turn it off. When I pressed him as to why, he found it difficult to answer. I wasn’t sure if he disagreed that this was a problem or whether he was as disgusted as I was by the mindset that degrades girls and women to such lows. Turns out he was quite upset by what these girls and even the boys were being exposed to at such early ages and the lasting effects of this behaviour on their futures.

    We got into a discussion about how he got into the affair situation by looking at a skank 20 years his junior and being turned on by her dressing in a provocative manner – push-up bra, low cut blouse, micro-mini skirt, high heels, heavy makeup, and an attitude of availabililty and willingness along with a lot of flirting. He agreed that this was quite a similar situation. He also had what we both consider an addiction to porn and at one time he felt that these were real situations – these guys really did get all that sex – from willing and hot women with nothing better to do than please the man!

    I think this show was a bit of a wake-up call for him and created a few aha! moments. It certainly gave me some food for thought and some great ideas for discussion in the future. Anybody else see this show or something similar that evoked a response?

  4. TrustingGod April 28, 2015 at 6:57 pm #

    Thank you for the advice. It troubles me to think that I may have more self-esteem in a year and a half from now, but my relationship might still not be restored. His indifference to my pain and requirement that I just go on as if nothing happened, without any significant changes, seems like more than I can bear on most days. I do better, am less depressed, when my focus is on how to get a job and find some friends, and when I don’t think of him at all, except for how I might be able to leave him. I am not at all the person I had worked to become, though, when he is cold or cruel to me. I don’t have enough patience then to deal with my baby, or his teenage older brother, who is not doing very well in school and started having grand mal seizures almost a year ago. And since my husband is working most of the time, I am the one who has to deal with almost all the decisions and care and discipline. I haven’t felt so alone and unloved in my life. How do you really go on when it’s clear that your husband doesn’t want you, and you can’t blame it on affair fog? How can you fight for your marriage when you feel like your husband is a selfish jerk who will never change or do anything to help you grow as a person, either? I want my youngest son to know what a happy, loving couple is, and have a good example to follow, not the coldness and bitterness that comes from only one person trying to save a relationship with an unrepentant man with few morals, but who thinks he’s a martyr for staying in a marriage that he destroyed. I guess I just don’t know how I’m supposed to recover when I have to pretend happiness in order to have peace, cater to someone’s ego so that he doesn’t mistreat me. And for what, in the end? If the marriage never improves, he will probably just cheat on me again, because he will know by then that he doesn’t have to pay for his mistakes or show me love or respect. And I will just be there, taking care of everything like always, with a hole in my heart, wondering why I have allowed it to continue, instead of showing him that I deserve better by leaving?

  5. TrustingGod April 28, 2015 at 7:21 pm #

    And I didn’t see the show you were talking about, but it’s good, I think, that your husband was disturbed by it. When I had been having fits about my husband’s lusting after young women on Facebook, and denigrating those who put risqué pictures of themselves as a profile picture, I remember my husband saying that it was bad for them to do that, because it just brought lustful thoughts, and made men do things that they shouldn’t do. I felt that was another scapegoat tactic, because now it looked like he was trying to blame them for his actions. But I read enough of his messages and comments to know that he was the one pursuing most of the time. If you feel too tempted in certain situations, you’re supposed to avoid them, not charge full-steam ahead.

    The hard part about this is that all those girls and women trying to get attention this way don’t even know that they are reinforcing men’s views of women as playthings, not human beings worthy of respect. And while some may say that that is the voice of jealousy because I don’t look as good as they do after 4 children, and that’s it’s their right to dress as they like or that they are only attempting to manipulate men and boys through their sexuality, I wish they would just realize what harm they are doing to us all. Showing self-respect and helping ensure others aren’t exploited to make money for the porn industry should be something everyone should care about, most especially women who hope to live a life where they are treated with respect.

  6. TrustingGod April 28, 2015 at 7:28 pm #

    And it’s funny how I can view that type of behavior as a sad cry for help on its own, but when it’s coupled with my husband lusting after them and trying to have sexual conversations with them, they’re suddenly disgusting whores that should be ashamed of themselves. I just want to be the kind person I was before all this happened to me. It feels like all my compassion and desire to help others has gotten buried under a mountain of pain.

  7. New at this April 29, 2015 at 12:30 am #

    I am grateful for all the help I have found here. I haven’t been able to find a similar situation, where my husband really does want a divorce, and hopes I will be the one to leave first. We really have had an unhappy 28 year marriage where he would not or could not communicate his needs or respond to mine for years. We have behaviors that need changed to be happy together. I am willing to do this.

    He says he is trying to work on our marriage, but keeps contacting her, or responding when she contacts him. OW is the one who says she can’t deal with the roller-coaster and back and forth, and they could just be friends while we work on our issues. His attempt at our reconciliation is mostly her idea, though she is not helping by continual contact. His heart is not in it. We have four young adult children, who are exploring relationships themselves, and it is hard to give counsel when ours is falling apart.

    I don’t want to divorce; I want a chance to work on our relationship together. I do believe it can be saved, but I am continually emotionally raw. My counselor says I need to draw boundaries, but I feel I cannot since establishing boundaries seems like it would give him justification to leave. So my question would be: how do I act, when he speaks the words but his actions don’t follow, and while he is (supposedly) ceasing contact? What boundaries can I set for myself? He gets angry when I follow up on their contact, but I am needing reassurance that he is really trying. I can tell when they are in contact; he is happy, and hums, and acts very nice, doing his house duties. It destroys me. He is still in the fog; her incorrect counsel resonates and mine barely registers. I keep thinking we are in reconciliation, but we keep going back and forth in that fog. It is so wearing, and I am beginning to lose respect for him and walk out myself, which I will not do, but I am getting quite angry about this. It’s been almost 3 months since DDay; the EA has been going on for over a year. Any advice?

    • Doug April 29, 2015 at 6:36 am #

      Hey New at This, We did an interview with author Dave Carder (Torn Asunder) a few years ago where he shared that what he does in these situations is he (as the counselor) actually calls the OP in the presence of the couple and proposes that she/he makes absolutely no contact with the unfaithful spouse for at least 90 days. During that 90 days the couple can then try 100% to work on their marriage. If after 90 days they still want a divorce or separation, then so be it. I’m sure I didn’t tell this as well as Dave did. You can listen to it here: http://www.emotionalaffair.org/dave-carder-on-why-men-stay-after-an-affair/
      Perhaps you can tell the OW the same thing. Make her agree to give you 90 days and make your husband agree to it as well. Of course the challenge might be that they don’t adhere to their agreement.

    • CBb May 14, 2015 at 8:31 pm #

      Been there 18 months ago. My CH swore they were not in contact and it was over. Not true. He was still in the fog of his affair. Long story butbat the end if 6 months I told him to leave. I had gone through sudden death in my familyband found out his affair was not over in a matter of 3 days. Holiday season coming up and I was just done.

      To this daybi have not gotten past howcwe celebrated our 25th anniversary and he was still seeing her. Beautiful romantic dinner and hotel stay he planned as a surprise for me.

      In any event, when I started acting like I was moving forward without him, things changed. I hoarded money, started throwing out crap in anticipation of our divorce.

      He still continued to lie about the details of the affair,and after a few monthsni told him I was ready for a divorce. Could not get past his continual lies.

      I feel for your position as my children are a bit older and taking care of a screaming baby is HARD. But get a plan together and start acting as if he is not part of your family because he is not. His selfish attitude may change BUT if you need to kick him tom the curb, you will be stronger and your self esteem will flourish.

      Walk around your house as if he is one of the kids. TAKE BACK YOUR POWER!

      Get your plan B together in case. Be prepared to walk away. He may have this attitude you will just take it and stick around. When their ego is damaged boy do things change. And fast.

      I hope if you can change he will see the light.

      My H and I are still together and only after 18 months does he FULLY understand what he did to us and me by his actions. His mid life crisis caused us to almost divorce.

      I now plan my own life and future. If he is there that is great. If not, that is okay by me. He is no longer number 1 in my life. My kids and me-we are the number 1 now.

      Therapy helps. Find a support group, church, counselor, someone – be prepared if you stay this will be reality for you if he is unwilling to change. Do you want to model this for your children?

      My kids do not know anything about our issues. It was summer vacation and I had to put on a brave face every day while I was just falling apart on the inside. Not sure how I made it throughnbut I will never be that person again.

      You deserve better. Your kids deserve better. Alone as a single parent is better than this.

  8. Doug April 29, 2015 at 7:29 am #

    Hey guys,

    We received a request from a reader who has been having a hard time healing from an affair that occurred many years ago. She asked if we could pose a question/topic to the community to get your opinions. I thought this Open Mic might be a good forum to do that.

    So here is the question…

    “How do spouses heal when the pain and thoughts of the affair come back full force after several years – 20 years in my case?”

    Any opinions would be much appreciated!

    • CBb May 14, 2015 at 9:00 pm #

      My CH had an affair 20 years ago which he denied to me every time I confronted him. However he did admit it the current OW who told me.

      So now I know I was right about the first EA. This was before cell phones and Internet. Anyway he has to live with it but it brought up some painful memories.

      I mention it b/c they think they are sooooooo smart and will not get caught. My CH had no idea I would call his current OW and she would spill the beans. She was hoping I would divorce him so she could have him.

      In any event I had to move on past this or else I would end up in jail. But now I know what I truly married. Inbelieve he is a serial cheater. And all the years he worked and traveled and did not answer hisnphone at 2 am “because he never heard it ring”. I ain’t that stupid.

      Serial cheater. This is his third time that I can prove. Doesn’t matter – if there were 3 or 30. At least I know whatni am married to after 28 years.

      His issue not mine. He has changed and is trying to make amends. I have moved past it and I take life day by day. And you never know what tomorrow brings.

      Gotta thank God every day and not swell on the past but also put yourself first.

      Otherwise we all lose.

      • Maxine6 May 15, 2015 at 12:39 am #

        Hi CBb,
        You are a very strong person. There is no way that I could do what you are doing. If I knew my H was a serial cheater, I wouldn’t want to be around him as I would be so angry and stressed. I guess it all comes down to how we all want to live our life. It seems like you have been able to separate yourself from him totally and move on.

        That’s not something I could do, but we are all different. No they never think they are going to get caught. The OW’s husband sent me the love letter’s my cheating husband had written to his slu+. They were very hard to read and they are memorized in my head. I’ll never forget the words on those very special love letter’s that he wrote to her. He never wrote those kind of things to me, except before we got married and when he was in the service. The trigger’s are all around me as he took her to so many places that we went to also and I have to drive past them overtime I go out. I try not to even look at them.

        I meant to ask you, you sound pretty young and have your whole life ahead of you, but maybe I’m wrong? Do you still love him or are you staying because you know him, like you said. It’s good that you can see every day as a new day. I do hope that he is helping you get through what he did?

        I did make a major change last week. My daughter in law after a 2 hr. discussion as she was trying to help me move past this asked me this question. “Why are you doing this to yourself?” I had no problem telling her. I said, “I had always told him and told myself, If you ever cheat on me, I would divorce you in a heart beat.” But I was told so many lies, didn’t even find out that he hadn’t did anything, like the weekends till 8 months later and that’s when I should have kicked him out, but I didn’t. I was so hurt, instead of anger, that came later. Five yrs. of therapy, he was never remorseful, I think he was angry that he got caught. I felt like I was going to die when I heard he had slept with her.

        Anyway, I got a little off the point. I told my daughter-in-law that I was so angry with myself for not doing what I said I would do if he cheated on me. I always keep my word and I didn’t, so I felt like I had made a huge mistake for not kicking him out like I said I was going to do and I was so angry at myself and also angry with him for messing up our life of 53 yrs. So her profound statement was, “So forgive yourself.” It was such a true statement, because I had never thought of it that way. She said, “Maybe if you had divorced him you would have missed out on your children and grandchildren growing up and doing things together, so maybe you did the right thing at that time.” I was finally able to look at it in a different way and things have been a lot better. Believe me, we have a long way to go, but at least I feel better about things.

        This is a wonderful site to go to and get some important feedback and also to help other’s. I wish you the best of luck in your life ahead.

        Maxine6

  9. TryingHard April 29, 2015 at 12:52 pm #

    Find a good therapist. Something else is going on physically if after 20 years you are still dealing with the affects of the trauma. And I say affects purposely because after 20 years you are no longer in trauma but may be experiencing your own regrets.

    I do believe the trauma can leave some permanently scarred and it most certainly sounds so in this case. This person could also be having a chemical imbalance due to menopause or just the aging process, loss of hormones etc. Only a psychiatrist can help with that and a good one too!!!

    I’m thinking this person has posted in the comments before and I truly feel for her. She sounds very adamant at getting the bottom of something that happened over 20 years ago. She demands answers from her husband that I am certain at this point truly can’t remember!! Hell of our cheaters can’t remember after a few months what do you expect after 20 years. I sincerely believe the guy doesn’t remember now. Geez he’s old too. It’s a wonder he even knows where he puts his car keys by now!

    Look we have choices. She choose many years ago to give it a go with the marriage after the infidelity and betrayal. She has to accept her choices now. Sometimes there is no real healing of the pain but living life well despite the pain! It truly is what it is.

  10. Rachel April 29, 2015 at 7:33 pm #

    I feel the betrayal will stay forever, we just accept to move on.
    I recommend talking to your spouse . You are still together so I feel that he will talk and make him understand that you are having a difficult time.
    Good luck!

  11. TrustingGod April 30, 2015 at 1:09 am #

    I agree that an affair that happened twenty years ago is being triggered by something else, or possibly it was one of those situations that I’ve been afraid that I’ll end up in–not dealing with problems and going on as if nothing happened, only to have it explode out of you some day, for some inexplicable or apparently unrelated reason.

    I am personally re-thinking my point of view on this whole situation, and doing the work at figuring out the why and how to fix it. I’ve known for a long time now that my husband depends a lot on what other people tell him for self-esteem. I have to recognize that he is a very insecure person, or he would not need to attack me when confronted about his behavior. And I shouldn’t discount the possibility that he is actually too ashamed of his behavior to ever want to talk about it again. At this point I’ve been more at peace about the whole affair thing because I know how easy it is to think that you are just with the wrong person, and that someone else would actually love and appreciate you more. It is a thought I’ve had almost daily for years. But do I want to fall into that fantasy, or do I want to do the best I can at healing myself and working again at being the best person I can be?

    The fact is, I am being hurt by my husband because he is not living up to my expectations of what he should do. He wants to hide from this, take the easy way out. I do not admire this attitude, but I realize now that I am no longer surprised. Twenty years of being with someone will often show you who they are, and plenty of resources I’ve read have said that you should believe someone when they show you who they are the first time. And if I saw how my husband stole from one person, lied to several people, helped some people cheat on government programs, should I really be surprised that he eventually does it to me? The fact that I have tried to influence him not to do these things over the years does not keep me safe from them.

    What I really have to decide is, do I trust that this situation could really change my husband for the better? Can I change my way of thinking, so that I won’t feel I’m cheating myself if I treat him better than he deserves? Will it be enough for me to decide that I do what is right and kind and loving because that is who I really am, and that I don’t do it because I am expecting the reciprocal return on my investment? Will I choose to really have faith in my God and trust Him to heal me and give me beauty for ashes, knowing that this doesn’t necessarily mean that my husband is going to change, but that I will be blessed, nonetheless? I think it is this last question that I struggle with the most, because I have been trying and trying to do what some marriage experts say so that I can keep this from happening again, so that my needs will be met, so that I will feel true love and intimacy. But there is no guarantee that any of it will work, so maybe it is just better to realize I can’t control the outcome, but that I can at least try to appreciate what I do have in life, instead of focusing on how my needs aren’t met. I can stop allowing fear of the future to control me and stop caring about what’s not there yet, but trust that it will be one day, with or without my husband, if I just try to love someone who seems unlovely to me now. I hated that he seemed to want to throw me away for someone else like I was garbage, but I don’t think I want to be the one who throws someone away because I have decided that he is garbage. I want to be better than that. But only time will tell if I am strong enough to do it.

    • Maxine6 April 30, 2015 at 4:31 am #

      TrustingGod,
      Everything you have said, is exactly how I feel and what I’ve been going through for 5 yrs. I am so exhausted tonight, it’s been a hard week of being put down, criticized and I’m have got to get to sleep. But I read your post and feel like we are in the same spot. It’s all so sad to me, especially when he’s been my only love since I was 16. I had a hard childhood, oldest of 6 children. When I say hard, I mean we were very poor. But I always felt loved in my family and when I met my husband, who had a much better life than I did. He was so loving, affectionate, respectful and only had eye’s for me. I felt so safe and loved. So we started out, with our $90 and made a nice life for about 12 yrs. of our 53 yr. marriage. He was in the service then for 3 yrs. and life was hard but a lot of love. When he got out, he went to work for a big corporation and working there seemed to change him. He worked very hard, then started drinking like a lot of the other men and he started changing. His selfishness and narsistic traits started really messing up my life and our 3 children. I protected the children as much as possible, tried talking to him, etc. But it didn’t do any good. So with 3 children, a high school education, I only worked for about 18 months when I was carrying our son, who he didn’t want and was embarrassed that anyone would know that I was pregnant as he was concerned about what his peers would think of him. Anyway, I’m way off the subject and I’ll have to finish it later as I only got 3 hrs. sleep last night and it looks the same again tonight after something he said to criticism tonight and we started at it again. So, it’s 4:30 AM and I have to get up at 8, can’t focus anymore. I will answer all the questions above as some of you don’t know the whole story. Thanks for taking the time to write me.
      Blessing, take care of your self, okay
      Maxine6

      • Tryinghard April 30, 2015 at 8:04 am #

        Maxine
        I so feel for you. As long as you’ve been married I’m sure you look back and reflect “man that was shit. Why did I stay?” We look back and regret decisions and choices and undoubtedly have regret not only other people’s behavior that we accepted but our choice to accept them and go on for decades doing the same thing. That’s the easy part. Once it’s done and we are past it. You know Maxine your marriage is only part of your history. With 3 children and your grandchildren you’ve got a lot of good too. I don’t know if you’ve worked or established other fulfilling relationships besides your marital one, maybe not but you have you!! No matter how you were treated you know who you are and can look in the mirror and know you did good. Maybe your husband chose a different path but you had no control over that. Even though you’ve been married for so long you don’t really know what is going on deep down in his psyche. But you can have compassion for him.

        Sounds like he wasn’t the most attentive husband and father and it sounds like he was that and worse but you stayed. Even after knowing the truth about his infidelity. Maybe you stayed out of fear and hope. Hope he’d change but he never changed and yet you stayed. Maybe you stayed out of some of your own insecurities deep down in your psyche. Whatever your motivation you stayed. You made that conscious choice. In the end we have to own our choice just like our husband has to own their choices.

        I hate to hear you are so miserable. I can only imagine how worried your children and grandchildren are about you but soon when they see you are doing little to help yourself the lose that compassion. I hope you find a good therapist to help you. I know where I live at the big hospitals they have geriatric counsellors to help folks work through these kinds of issues. I’m just afraid if you don’t get some help your emotional state will have a very negative impact on your physical health. I really encourage you to look into some mental health experts that can help you. I am so sorry you are suffering.

      • TryingHard April 30, 2015 at 10:34 am #

        Maxine
        Also to add. You are in no way in the same boat as TrustingGod. You may be able to relate to her anxiety with regards to her situation. This woman just found out about the affairs. Her husband is wholly inattentive to her and the children. He actually sounds cruel. I’m sure you can no doubt relate to her situation as it is probably very similar to yours. She has a decision to make regarding her future. She’s a young woman and I’m sure doesn’t want to look back 20 years from now once her children are raised, and have hopefully STOPPED crying, and say “Why did I stay” much like it sounds you are doing right now. Different animal, apples to oranges. And it’s a HUGE decision to make because once you make that decision YOU LIVE WITH IT. You are no longer of victim of someones else’s lies and manipulations. You make your life living with that decision. They may be sons of bitches but they are the sons of bitches WE chose! THAT is HUGE.

        Maxine, it’s not too late for you. Look I’m at 40 years of marriage and I’m ten or so years younger but I can relate to what it’s like to look in the mirror and see the wrinkles, gray hairs, less than elastic skin, a naked body that we would only hope one person can continue to appreciate and wonder what the hell we did with our lives. Why we seemingly wasted it on someone who didn’t appreciate it. But there are NO do overs. We cannot go back and make good what is past. We can only make good what is to come. There are many things you can do to facilitate that. First of all you can start by getting some sleep!!! For crying out loud, go to bed. Do you realize what these young mothers like TrustingGod would do for a good nights sleep??? You cannot be in a good state of mind without rest. Second, find something for YOU not your husband, not your marriage but YOU that you want to do. Maybe it’s a job, a class, painting, sculpture, writing class. Maybe you want a degree, a masters degree, hell even a PhD. YOU CAN STILL DO IT!!! Don’t be that person who lives in the past. Don’t be that person who wants to hold on to how the world has fucked them over. Just.Don’t.Do.It. No one wants to be with that person. Look you’ve raised your family. They have families of their own that are practically raised. Love them. Enjoy them. And if your son of a bitch husband does something good, appreciate it. He chooses to be a drunken sot, that’s his choice AND you can still choose to leave him!!! It’s never too late to start over with what YOU want.

        But what you CAN’T do is change someone else. Let go of that dream of a perfect marriage. That train left years ago. Make your own life, make your own happiness and if you husband wants to come along for the ride well all the better. Trying to find answers to crap that happened twenty years ago is an effort in futility at best and madness at worse. What else do you possibly need to know?? He had an affair, he liked it, he spent money and time on her. What difference does it make where, when or how much after all these years. If he were to have a sudden recollection of the past would it change anything for you?? NO. YOU know what you need to know and you made your choices knowing that. The details are the details that only YOU are worrying about. I’m sure by now he has forgotten, truly forgotten. And you know what we better get used to that forgetfulness cause they ain’t getting any younger and soon he will be forgetting where he put his damn teeth!!!

        I hope I’ve helped and I hope you understand I do feel for you. I think one thing you drive home to ALL of us Betrayed. You NEVER get over the pain, you live well despite the pain. I hope you find some peace.

    • betrayedchump May 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm #

      “I must be willing to give up what I am in order to become what I will be.”
      ― Albert Einstein

      • Maxine6 May 10, 2015 at 4:02 pm #

        betrayedchump,

        Would you please explain more of what this mean’s to me? Sorry, I don’t totally understand it. I feel like I no longer exist and don’t care if I do or not. I’ve been through so much more than any of you realize. No, I’m not feeling sorry for myself. I just wasn’t expecting my life to take such a drastic turn like it did. I would have bet a million dollars that my husband would never cheat on me. I thought we both loved each other that much. I knew nothing about what to look for in an affair, as I never thought I would be faced with one. So, yes, I had worked hard all my life, came from a poor family, met him at 16 and got married at 18 and was so much in love and admiration and respect for the young man I married. We both worked hard to get ahead. I stayed home, only worked a couple yrs., had our 3 children, etc. I painted our house, did wallpaper , sewed all our clothes to make end’s meet. Did everything possible, was always there for him when he needed me. Praised him and loved him as much 25 yrs. later as when I married him.

        It took years after forgiving him for the affair and moving on to realize that I truly didn’t know my husband. I then looked back on our marriage before the affair and realized that everything was always about him and his need’s. He never did anything special just for me and expected me to just take care of everything and he worked.

        I remember my therapist, after he told me that I couldn’t go to one because we couldn’t afford it, asking me, did we have a good marriage and I said yes, I knew he loved me. I based that on him being affectionate, enjoying sex together, doing things together, but I didn’t realize that when we were with other people, I was totally ignored. He enjoyed being the center of attention, asked the other women to dance, not being there for me when ever I needed him. So, now looking back after forgiving the affair and with him starting to ignore me again about 5 or 6 yrs. ago, yelling, drinking, etc. got me to thinking he was having another affair. I tried checking phone records, etc. but couldn’t find any evidence that he was and he really wasn’t. He was just an angry individual over loosing so much money in the stock market (money had always been so important to him) so he drank and drank, threw fits and made my life a miserable hell.

        That’s when everything came back to me about the pretty much forgotten affair. Sure I still had trigger’s because I would pass so many places they went together every time I traveled down so many street’s I traveled on. Places I had to go, was right next to where she worked, etc. I then started questioning my whole life with him. Why didn’t I leave almost 30 yrs. ago when I found out he had been in bed with her? I had always said that I would kick his butt out the door if he ever cheated on me and I didn’t do as I said. I was so angry with myself for not living up to my word. I regretted staying then. He wasn’t the man I married, I sure hadn’t tried to change him as someone on her suggested, I had originally loved him totally like he was and is why I married him. So a lot of my anger was at myself for staying and him not ever treating me with empathy, remorse or respect after I decided to stay and love him again.

        I HAD MADE A BIG MISTAKE AND NOW IT WAS HARDER TO GET OUT OF THE MARRIAGE AT MY AGE AND MY BAD HEALTH, WITH SERIOUS BACK PROBLEMS FROM FALLS.

        The life that I had worked so hard to have with him was forever changed and was never going to have that innocent love of only the two of ever being together again. He ruined that and now things were so different. My admiration, love and respect for this person, who was my husband, due to his behavior was slipping away. Still no remorse again after this second episode of him acting so bad and not making love to me again very ofter for 3 yrs. I couldn’t get over the loss that I suffered of the life that was to be for us. The knowledge that he loved another woman, forgot about me, our children, all that we had worked for was not to be. The specialness that I thought we had, really wasn’t. I had been looking at him even before the affair, through rose colored glasses. I always had been taught in Catholic school and at home to look for the good in people, so I focused on the good things and tried to live with the bad.

        Anyway, I’ll close now. I just got off the phone with my daughters, where they both blamed me for making there Dad’s life miserable, either leave him or else stop the questions, get a life and make it work. I tried to explain to both of them how they had no idea how life was at home and they said, yes they knew and was sick of me messing up the whole family and it was affecting all of them. They didn’t want to be around us anymore, they were angry, he had been a good Father and that they knew he loved me. That’s when I lost it when they said he had been a good Father. I told them they had no idea all the things that I covered up when they were children, then they got even more mad because I was talking him down, which I never had done before! I was sick of always being the bad one in there eyes, I didn’t deserve the know and badger him for something that happened 30 yrs. ago. It was so unfair to everyone in the family and they were over it. I started crying then, told them they had no idea of what I was going through, couldn’t get out of the house, panic attacks, depression and you have the right to judge me? I told them, thanks a lot for letting me know how you feel, even though I already know it. I don’t feel loved by either one of you, which they professed that they did and I told them that I sure didn’t feel it? They both finally said they were not going through this anymore and I proceeded to tell them, it wasn’t any of there business, which they adamantly didn’t agree and then I told them, “Thanks for making my day and we hung up.” So, everything I said was true. How can I be the one to blame when he had the affair. I just give up.

        Maxine6

        • betrayedchump May 11, 2015 at 4:56 pm #

          Maxine6,
          First & foremost, I am sorry that you unfortunetaly & without your request, permission or wanting to be, you have become a member of this group. Betrayal by one’s partner/lover/friend is the worst heartache I have felt, a thousand times worse than the death of anyone in my lifetime, IMO!!!! However in my journey through the Nightmare of betrayal & then the Nightmare of divorce which I didn’t want, request or give permission for, I have learned several things & I hope & pray that you will also about your life, your family, your friends & yourself.
          You did NOTHING WRONG!
          The affair wasn’t about what was wrong with you or your marriage, it was ALL about your Temporarily Insane, Selfish, Cheating Spouse & ALL that was/is wrong with them!!!!
          I THOUGHT I couldn’t live without my wife of 25 years! I thought my life was NO MORE without her beside me! Then I decided I no longer wanted to live without her beside me???? Talk about temporary insanity!!!
          I have discovered/learned just as Albert Einstein’s quote says I had to be WILLING to give up what I am in order to become what I WILL BE!!!! HER AFFAIR WILL NOT DEFINE THE REST OF MY LIFE, IT WILL NOT BE THE FINAL CHAPTER OF MY LIFE BECAUSE I HAVE THE POWER TO LIVE MY LIFE AS I WANT IT TO BE NOW!!!!
          “There are always two choices: your commitment versus your fear!”-Sammy Davis Jr.
          I hope & pray that you & your partner/lover/friend can reconcile, “New love is the brightest, and long love is the greatest, but revived love is the tenderest thing known on earth!”-Thomas Hardy
          DIVORCE SUCKS WORSE THAN THE BETRAYAL IMO!!!! However if you cannot reconcile, ” Don’t let evil get you down In this madness spinning round & round, Take courage when the road is long Don’t ever forget you’re never alone”-Drew Holcomb
          Peace to ALL!

          • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 1:12 am #

            betrayedchump,

            Not to worry, I know you didn’t mean to hurt my feelings. I just wanted you to know that I wouldn’t marry a man that I felt that I wanted or needed to change. That would be an awful marriage to start out with. You need to love each other, especially when you decide to marry, with the qualities that make you want to spend your life with them.

            I admired my husband for his maturity, affection, loving me, ambition and enjoyable to talk to. The only thing that I didn’t look for and would again in a spouse is a great sense of humor and to be more flexable in life. But I didn’t notice that at the time and that is a good thing to look for in a spouse.

            I understand what you are saying and believe me, I am in no way responsible for his choice to have an affair. I couldn’t have been a more loving wife and Mother to our 3 children. I couldn’t have praised him more, did everything possible to make our life good. Yes, he worked hard and earned a good living for us and advanced up the corporate ladder. So he did work very hard at his job, until she flirted with him at the age of 40. Someone new, a few yrs. younger and so different than me. I don’t think you need to flirt to get a man. To me a sincere relationship built around love and truthfulness is more important in a marriage.

            I do agree, I’ve been through a lot of sadness in my life, both before this and after, but nothing compares to being betrayed by your spouse who you trust that he will never hurt you. You might expect other’s, but not your partner in life who promised to love and protect you.

            This was done by his own selfish needs, just like you said and to the day I die, I’ll never understand why. I can honestly say, no matter what circumstances would I ever cheat on my husband. I wouldn’t be able to look at myself in the mirror. I also have to much respect for myself. I don’t know how anyone having an affair can feel good about what they are doing. The sneaking around, the lies, the going from your mistress then home to your wife. How is that possible for anyone to do it, unless they have lost all there morals, character, self-respect for them selves, low self-esteem from within.

            At least he has never blamed me for not being a good wife, it was totally his fault. Trust me, if he had blamed me at all, there is no telling what I might do to him.

            I felt the same way as you did, I tried to keep the marriage together, I don’t know why? Some of it was that I didn’t know the whole truth. I do think that if I had, I would have insisted on him leaving until I could get all the truth from him and then he would have been made to live somewhere else while I thought what I wanted to do. I never got to do that and I think that is what bothered me, like now, so much as everything came back to me. I think you do go into a state of shock, first you try to hold on to them, to prove you are better than the OW. Then later, you don’t care if they leave or not. Arguing, fighting, trying to get answer’s and no cooperation from the cheating spouse. Then you get, like I’ve been, where you just don’t have any feelings for them anymore and you just want them to disappear so you don’t even have to look at there face, that face that looked you in the eyes and told you that he loved you, right after he had slept with his mistress.

            But I hear what your saying about divorce. That’s is a hard decision to make, mine sure has never wanted one. He never even thought of marrying her, he just wanted to have fun with her. It’s not something I’m thinking of at this point, now that I understand more about why I know of some of my different feelings and why I have felt this way. We will go to a therapist, he’s agreed. I do feel more of a sense of peace within myself, now that I understand some of my feelings and have forgiven myself for the choice that I made almost 30 yrs. ago. I hope to find some happiness, but I know in my heart that I will never feel the same about my husband, like the day I married him and that makes me so sad, as I loved him so much. But I’ll have to do the best that I can to be happy again. Thanks for your nice note. By the way, what does IMO mean?

            Best of luck to you
            Maxine6

            • betrayedchump May 13, 2015 at 11:28 am #

              Maxine6,
              Hopefully you are feeling a little bit better today & will be able to get some much deserved & needed rest!
              IMO=In My Opinion
              “Nobody can hurt me without my permission.”
              ― Mahatma Gandhi
              Peace to All

              • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 1:16 pm #

                betrayedchump,

                You are throwing me for a loop her with your “Quotes.” I’m trying to laugh, but the one that says, “Nobody can hurt me without my permission” doesn’t make sense to me. My husband was hurting me for 3 hrs. when he was having his affair and I had no idea it was going on, so how does that quote apply?”

                I agree, at different points after I found out about the affair, I could have packed his bags and put them at the front door on the outside of course. Which I so wish I had done, as I think it would have been the biggest wake up call he could have used. I think a lot of things would have went down differently. He never suffered any consequences for what he did, still had his home, slept in our bed, hid the truth, which accounted for me handling things differently. But as I said, I take ownership for not reacting differently.

                In 18 months after the affair, I went through Melanoma surgery with over 300 stitches and skin grafts, lymph nodes removed and talk about pain? Then a little over a year later I had a total hysterectomy.

                Add all the lies that were told to me by my husband with trickle truth for 8 months and finding out that a few months of lunch with the OW turned out to be 3 more D-days of learning that he had went off on 2 weekends and also that this 4 month or so of lunch’s turned out to be a 3 year affair.

                That knocks a person off there feet so many times, that you go through depression, anger, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and almost carrying it through, but stopped due to how it would hurt my children and grandchildren. To many emotions to even think straight about what to do with your life. Anyway, I think you understand what I mean.

                Just wanted to clear it up again as I didn’t understand the quote you made. Also thanks for clarifying what IMO for me.

                Maxine6

                • betrayedchump May 13, 2015 at 4:38 pm #

                  M6,
                  Here is what the quote means to me, No one can hurt me/you without me/you giving permission=dwelling on the affair/betrayal/hurt, keep replaying the affair/betrayal/hurt over & over. I/you have the power (permission) to stop dwelling on the affair/betrayal/hurt & be the BEST PERSON I/YOU CAN BE!!!! It is NOT easy to do, it took me a long time to stop replaying the affair/betrayal/hurt & stop dragging myself back down to worthlessness & no hope. My life just SUCKED whenever I gave permission/power to replay the affair/betrayal/hurt!!! No more, I have accepted my NEW life as it is NOW! There is a Before the affair chapter & an After the affair chapter in my book of life!!!! “What once was, will NEVER be again, it is in the Past, NOT the Present Nor the Future!!!! Fear of another affair/betrayal/ hurt will not rule my life unless I give it permission/power to do so!!!!
                  “Life is short, Break the Rules.
                  Forgive quickly, Kiss SLOWLY.
                  Love truly. Laugh uncontrollably
                  And never regret ANYTHING
                  That makes you smile.”
                  ― Mark Twain
                  Peace to All

                  • betrayedchump May 13, 2015 at 4:47 pm #

                    “Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.”
                    — Epicurus

                    • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 7:23 pm #

                      betrayedchump,

                      You are going to drive me nuts, seriously! I read this quote and says to myself, “Myself, My life right now is what I use to hope for.” No way!

                      I’m sure you have read most of my story now. I haven’t totally written in the “My story section as I seem to stay focused on these posts.”

                      I went over 20 yrs. without thinking about this affair and moving forward. I’ve explained how it all came back and why. I had never thought that my H would ever have another affair, maybe that was stupid of me, but when he treated me like he did for those 3 yrs., towards the end, I did wonder if there was a possibility? I thought you said, at one time you did look at your life, looked back on it and tried to figure out why this happened to me, so correct me if I’m wrong.

                      Memories use to be so important to me, but no I don’t look back at my life even before the affair, of most of it with fondness. Did I love him, yes, very deeply and that’s why I put up with so many things, hoping that he would eventually become the person that I had married. Something would snap in his stupid head and realize, “Hay, what I’m doing is not good, it’s not good for the family, my wife and most of all not me.” That never happened, but I kept trying and tried to see the good in him, all due to love. Plus with raising 3 children and having no degree to work and with my husbands position we were expected to go to a lot of conferences, etc. If I had a job, which I didn’t need as he made enough money when we moved to the part of his job where he was in the corporate world. That’s when the drinking got more prevalent, his selfishness got more pronounced and sense of entitlement, where the things I noticed. Going to a conference, he was more focused on impressing people, clients, dancing with un-accompied woman like it was his duty (no one else did but him) all while neglecting me and never noticing how nice I looked, which took time to shop for these conferences, finding things on sale, since he was very controlling of the money. I was a nice slender woman, kept myself in shape, a runner, tennis player, go to the gym person. Everything to keep myself in shape. From the year of 9/63 to D-day 11/6/87, which supposedly the affair ended during the fall of 86. According to the letter from the OWH, it was still going on. I still don’t know the truth. Yes he slept with her, the lie detector test says they didn’t have sex, yet the intimacy still bothered me. He shared a bed with her, held her tightly with no bra and a t-shirt on. Who in the hell, sorry, really knows what happened. But I did put this away for almost 25 yrs., so I wasn’t dwelling on it for all those yrs. Read parts of my story in different places and you will see why it all came flooding back to me.

                      Do you believe in PTSD, well that’s what I felt that I had. No matter how hard I tried sometimes, my brain takes over. I will have to say I have a memory that is unreal. It’s actually photographic with goes along with the thoughts at the same time, some times. I have went through hypnosis before, yrs. of therapy, a weekend to get over all of it and that is when I made that decision to totally forgive, love and move on and I did on that day, which lasted for 25 yrs.

                      Fast forward to to about 8 yrs. ago and everything started to change. Gradually my husband was not wanting to love me very often (like every 4 months) and we had always had a nice sex life before that, except during the 3 yr. affair., drinking way to much, arguing and loosing his temper a lot, but I persevered to keep the marriage together, not understanding why he was acting that way, until I couldn’t deal with it anymore. I sought psychiatric help from several counselors to get some answers and try to live with this again. I felt humiliated all over again. Did your wife not want to make love with you? All I know from a women’s prospective it really affects you emotionally. It hurts.

                      Then he agreed to answer the questions he never answered, but he didn’t really do that, it was the same as when it happened 30 yrs. ago, I don’t remember, I don’t know why. I was ready to strangle him and then we started fighting again off and on for the past 3 yrs. He said horrible things to me in anger, which ring in your head and you don’t forget them. Just like you remember the wonderful love letter’s he wrote to her, which I only received them when he was in the service right after we got married. Of course, those are now burned now after finding out about the affair. I hadn’t heard him say things like he said to her since we had gotten married and even then, they were nothing like what he said to her. He didn’t want it to end, she ended it as he was still enjoying the fun of being with her, the excitement, etc.

                      Anyway off the subject. You know I’ve made a break through and I’m going to stick with it and not let this OW mess up the rest of my life. I hope I can do it, it’s my plan. I have forgiven myself for not divorcing him years ago.

                      So my question to you is this: How do you stop those thoughts from coming into your head, how do you do it? Do you ever think of your life before the affair, which I don’t want to do as I now feel it wasn’t all truthful. I loved him way more than he loved me as our marriage approached 25 yrs.

                      So if you can answer my first question at the beginning about your quote and this last one, I would appreciate it.

                      Take care my “quoting friend.” I say that with humor not anger.

                      Maxine6

                    • betrayedchump May 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm #

                      M6,
                      A quote, a verse, a book, a song, a painting, any experience in life has a different meaning/effect for/on everyone that reads it, sees it or experiences it. I can’t answer what any of these quotes mean for/to you, I don’t even know if they apply to your life experiences?
                      They are a way to step back & look @ my life, the Good, the Bad, the Ugly & What My New LIife Can Be!!!!
                      This is what this Epicurus quote means for me: Remembering when I was a kid & what I hoped for. I wanted to get married someday, have a family, own my own business, my own home, I achieved these things that I hoped for. Was it happily ever after? Hell No! Do I let that Spoil what I have? Hell No! Do I have what REALLY is important in this life? YES I DO!!!! I have my Life thanks to God, my son, my daughter-in-law, my two beautiful unconditional loving granddaughters, another grandaughter coming in June, a chance to move & start my New life wherever I decide.
                      Do I ever think of my life before the affair? There isn’t a single day that I don’t think of the life i had before the affair/betrayal!!!!
                      How do I stop those thoughts from coming into my head? I don’t, I can’t, it’s impossible to stop them!!!!
                      There are just to many triggers as I go through each day that bring back my old life, the affair/betrayal/hurt. What has worked for me was I wrote a I hate you letter to my x. I never sent it to her, it wouldn’t change anything if she read it, I wrote it for me Not her! I held Nothing back! I wrote down everything I could think of that I hated her for, I added to it whenever I thought of something. I went to counseling, I went to a Divorce Care class, I joined a different church, I went to Bible study classes, i went to a Blended Families class. If I do meet someone else that I want to take the leap of faith with & give my heart to, I want to be a better man/partner/lover/friend than I was before!!!! I had to change who I was, I couldn’t change my x, I couldn’t change the past! I can only change me & my future life!!!! When I get in that spiral of the life I used to have, I pinch myself, HARD, to wake me up into the reality of NOW, Not the past!!!!
                      Peace to All

                    • betrayedchump May 14, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

                      “The past can’t hurt you anymore, not unless you let it.”
                      ― Alan Moore
                      Peace to All

                    • betrayedchump May 14, 2015 at 5:08 pm #

                      “Before you can live a part of you has to die. You have to let go of what could have been, how you should have acted and what you wish you would have said differently. You have to accept that you can’t change the past experiences, opinions of others at that moment in time or outcomes from their choices or yours. When you finally recognize that truth then you will understand the true meaning of forgiveness of yourself and others. From this point you will finally be free.”
                      ― Shannon L. Alder

  12. TryingHard April 30, 2015 at 1:01 pm #

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/imperfect-spirituality/201504/6-ways-get-your-swagger-back

    I hope you go to the above link read it and live it. This is what I’m trying to do. I’m going to print it off and read it everyday until I get it right.

    We all need to get our swagger back. It’s never too late or too soon. Just do it!!!

  13. antiskank April 30, 2015 at 3:14 pm #

    Trying Hard,
    Thank you! Well said.
    It’s difficult to get the point across that – yes we have been badly hurt but must move on and make the best life that we can, we must love and accept love in the best way we can. We can be happy in spite of the betrayal and pain. We make our decisions and we need to put forth our best efforts to be happy again. Sometimes we stumble and fall, but we need to get up and get back on track. The future awaits!

    • TryingHard April 30, 2015 at 3:27 pm #

      EXACTLY AntiSkank!!! We can let this crap drive us NUTS! I’m not going there. I want to be better than ever. I’ll be damned if I let it diminish me. I may have been a bad chooser in the past but no more.

      Indeed the future DOES await!!!

    • Tabs9 May 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm #

      Trying Hard,

      Great article. I have always questioned whether or not I should have divorced my CS. But I didn’t and now I have to live with my decision. It’s still not too late, but … a lot of buts… It’s been 4 years and I’m still married. Now it’s time to get my “swagger” back. Hopefully I can look back one day and say I changed for the better. However, it all starts with one small step in the right direction. I’m adding this article to my journal!!

      • Tryinghard May 2, 2015 at 10:00 am #

        Tabs
        I’m at 4 years too. I’ve suffered a lot and I question my decision to stay and more and more I find peace with my decision. That’s not to say reconciliation is for everyone. But what you must do regardless is once that decision is made you own it. You can always change your mind. Divorce is alwYs available so I don’t sweat it anymore. And yes we do need to get our swagger, mojo, whatever you call it back. Be the greatest we can be despite the hurts and pain. Like I said I’ll be damned if his fuck ups describe me. I’ll be damned if 20 years from now I’m still questioning and looking for answers to his infidelity. I’m more than that. My life is more than one singular relationship. There’s no do overs in life. Do as you like right or wrong but own it. I am NOT a victim and I am getting my mojo AND swagger back:)

        • betrayedchump May 13, 2015 at 11:36 am #

          TH,
          I never knew your Mojo & Swagger ever left?
          “Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.”
          ― Lao Tzu
          Peace to All

          • TryingHard May 13, 2015 at 1:22 pm #

            LOL Betrayedchump–indeed it did 🙂 It’s coming back fiercer and mightier than ever though 🙂

            I like that Katy Perry song Roar!!! Ain’t no asshole knocking me down for long! GGRRR

  14. Maxine6 May 1, 2015 at 5:47 am #

    To Everyone who has been kind enough to give me advice to help me get through this or to leave. Everyone has some good points, but there is so much more to the story than what I’ve said. I think once I actually write my story maybe more of you will understand why this all came back to me 25 yrs. later.

    Right now, I’ll have to wait for a few days. One twin Grandson is going to be taking his Oath at 11 AM this morning. The other identical twin passed it the last time and his twin brother passed it last time. Both sets of Grandparents get to go to see the ceremony this time and I am so excited as he has worked so hard to pass it. Now he came move on with being a practicing Attorney like his twin brother.

    Also, there brother is graduating the next day from college in Construction Management and was hired about 18 months ago, so they are truly blessed, as I am also with my Grandchildren. I honestly think they were all part of what kept us together. Now they are all busy with there life and we hardly ever see them, which makes me sad. They are what puts a smile on my face.

    I’m also in a lot of back pain right now as I was trying to finish a project for there graduation gifts. With my back, even if I just do a lot of lifting this is the results of it and then, even with pain meds I can’t totally get out of pain and back spasms.

    The reason I’m saying all this is to let you know I am not ignoring or getting upset with your comments, just have had a very busy week and now a weekend coming up. Will answer when I can in a couple of days. I also want to tell my store and direct yawl to the right place to read it.

    Thanks, Maxine6

  15. Maxine6 May 1, 2015 at 7:35 am #

    Hi To Everyone,

    I need to make a correction. I was so tired early this morning or night, whichever way you want to look at it that I didn’t even do a sentence right. I meant to say, that the twin that is taking his Oath, as an Attorney this morning, was the one who didn’t pass it by two points 8 months ago.

    Now, my back is out because I was trying to print and frame a picture for him this past week and ran into all kinds of trouble doing so. I know that probably most of you will ask me, “Why are you focusing on this, instead of finding help, etc., but they don’t ask much of me and he asked me personally if I could do this for him as I’m the photographer in the family and he’s just getting into it. I love doing these kind of things, it makes me happy, keeps my mind off the other and I’m doing it for my grandson, who I love very much. He had already told me to just let it go as he didn’t want to cause me so much trouble. I have a hard time doing this because it makes me feel like a failure and when I start something, I like to see it through.

    My goal next week is to try and find a psychologist who can help me sort through all of this and deals with infidelity. I am so tired of being stuck on the fence and not knowing which way to go in my life.

    Just one answer to one of the questions presented to me by one or a couple of you. I did leave him twice after forgiving him after for the affair, during that 25 year period. Both times he had come home so drunk that he couldn’t even talk and had driven home a long distance after a conference. This didn’t happen often, as I would usually be with him, but some where not for the spouse. I use to pray that he would get pulled over and end up in jail, but it never happened. So once, I packed my bags and drove to a hotel as I was so disgusted and angry with him. I could never understand why he would allow himself to do this in front of his peers, but he was an alcohol and would never admit it. I stayed gone for about 10 day, then I called him and gave him the ultimatum on the only way I would come back home. He had to stop drinking, period. He agreed and it would last about 6 months, then he would want to see if he could have a drink when we went out to dinner. I thought he would be able to do this, but I was wrong. Then it was 2 drinks, then he didn’t want to be monitored like I was his Mother and I would give in. This happened twice during that 25 yr. period. We also went back to counseling, with a couple new ones as we started having problems again, mostly about his drinking. One counselor told me that he was never going to change the kind of person he was and all he was interested in was he would do it for me to keep me from leaving him. He actually told him, “Not to come back again as he didn’t want him to wast his time and was only there because I wanted him to, which was true.” He never got anything out of counseling as even when we have been these past couple of years, to 3 different one’s, he never really comes up with a valid reason for doing what he did and none of them pushed him into going further inside himself. That’s why it’s so frustrating to me, you can’t fix what you can’t see. If he wanted our marriage to work, he would put 100% effort into it and he never has from most of the time before the affair, during the affair and even after the affair. I kept trying myself, as I had never been with anyone else and neither had he. We got married at 18, when he got out of boot camp, then being the good Catholics we were didn’t practice a sure form of birth control and had 2 children, one right away and another 2 yrs. later. I worked during the second pregnancy, but never after that. I had 2 children to raise and took care of the house and was the “good wife.” Then even with birth control, we had another child 8 years later. He didn’t drink when we first got married and that started about 5 yrs. into our marriage and got worse when he got older, went to more parties and conferences.

    I know I’m making this to long, sorry, just a complicated life. I still loved him very much, kept thinking these incidents that didn’t happen very much, might get better, but they didn’t. The more occasions he had to party, then that’s when the drinking would get out of hand. He would get angry with me when I confronted him and then after he was sober and I tried to talk to him, he would get defensive and tell me that he hadn’t been that bad. He did stop drinking, totally on his own 3 yrs. ago. I only wish he had done that 40 yrs. ago.

    I’ll have to finish the rest of my reason’s for not leaving him yrs. ago and also how this all came back to me 25 yrs. later and why I’m having such a hard time letting it go now, later. Got to get ready for this special day for my Grandson.

    Maxine6

  16. betrayedchump May 1, 2015 at 12:57 pm #

    “Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    • Maxine6 May 10, 2015 at 4:11 pm #

      betrayedchump,

      That is so untrue about why I got married and that’s all I need to say. I didn’t make him change from the man that I married to the one he turned out to be. I totally accepted him like he was, except when he was drinking and then we would have our discussions and he would get totally defensive. Do I wish I could change that part of him for 40 yrs., you bet I tried, but you can’t change an alcoholic, especially when they don’t admit that they are one. He only decided 2 1/2 yrs. ago that he wasn’t going to drink anymore. I had nothing to do with it, but I am glad that he did. That’s the only change that I wish I could have made him do. He was not a man that I never thought would cheat on me. I would have bet a million dollars on that, that’s how deep I thought our love was. I was so wrong and yes, I wish that mistake he made could have been changed.

      Your comment doesn’t apply to me at all, sorry!

      • betrayedchump May 11, 2015 at 5:46 pm #

        Maxine6,
        My comment wasn’t directed at/to you personally, I am sorry that it offended you, that wasn’t my intent.
        IMO there is a lot of my own personal reflection of this quote! Personal reflection, really questioning who one is, what they stand for, what & who is important in one’s life, your very core of your soul is VERY hard & painful to do!!!! Betrayal makes you question the very core of your soul & the core of the soul of you betrayer!!!!!
        Was I a disappointmet to my partner/lover/friend? Probably more often than not, I am only human, I am NOT perfect. Did I make mistakes/bad decisions? Yes I did, No one made me do/make them, they are mine, I own them, I am responsible for them!!!! I changed but not as she wanted me to change?
        Did my partner/lover/friend disappoint me? Yes she did! Much to my amazement/astonishment she is/was only human, she isn’t/wasn’t perfect either! She changed & I didn’t want her to change @ all because she was perfect? Does she take ownership, responsibility for her mistakes/bad decisions? Not IMO! She told me that I was the one who had problems, I needed to change! She was still the same person she always was in her opinion???? Justification @ it’s finest!!!!
        Each & everyone of us on this earth has Freewill, We have no control what another person is going to do in life or wants to do in life! We cannot let another person control what we want to do in life & how we want to live our life either! Sometimes “Life ain’t fair and the world is mean”-Sturgill Simpson
        Peace to All!

  17. Strengthrequired May 11, 2015 at 6:16 pm #

    Betrayed, I like reading the quotes you post. How have you been?

    • betrayedchump May 12, 2015 at 11:16 pm #

      SR,
      I am Ok thanks for asking, like all of Us, just trying to get to the other side of the nightmare of betrayal!!!! How are you holding up SR?
      Peace to All

      • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 5:01 am #

        Betrayed, i am ok too, I think I may have actually turned a corner, yet I will see how I am in the next week or so, lol. As we know how good we can feel one day but crappy another day. I a, hoping that it truly is a turning point for me, as today was the first time in a long time since dday that the pain in my chest seemed to disappear.
        I do hope that each day gets better for you, your in my thoughts.

        • betrayedchump May 13, 2015 at 11:15 am #

          SR,
          Yep that PAIN IN THE CHEST! To bad we can’t just reach in, yank it out, shove it straight up our betrayer’s ass where the sun don’t shine!!!!!! What the hell am I thinking? There isn’t any room because their head is shoved so far up there already!!!! Keep the Faith SR, keep crawling, stumbling, walking & running towards your turning point, wherever it takes you, Good times lay ahead, I Guarantee it!!!!
          “Promise Yourself

          To be so strong that nothing
          can disturb your peace of mind.
          To talk health, happiness, and prosperity
          to every person you meet.

          To make all your friends feel
          that there is something in them
          To look at the sunny side of everything
          and make your optimism come true.

          To think only the best, to work only for the best,
          and to expect only the best.
          To be just as enthusiastic about the success of others
          as you are about your own.

          To forget the mistakes of the past
          and press on to the greater achievements of the future.
          To wear a cheerful countenance at all times
          and give every living creature you meet a smile.

          To give so much time to the improvement of yourself
          that you have no time to criticize others.
          To be too large for worry, too noble for anger, too strong for fear,
          and too happy to permit the presence of trouble.

          To think well of yourself and to proclaim this fact to the world,
          not in loud words but great deeds.
          To live in faith that the whole world is on your side
          so long as you are true to the best that is in you.”
          ― Christian D. Larson
          Peace to All

          • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 8:08 pm #

            Betrayed, that would have been good if we were able to do exactly that, yet what use would it have done. Probably just blame us yet again.
            I have noticed if I am going through a bit of anxiety, the chest pain just gets stronger. I really don’t want my husbands poor choices affecting me anymore. So I am hoping that yesterday was definately a turning point for me, fingers crossed. As for the chest pain though, it’s still there, I guess I can’t expect it to just leave in a day, after all these years. Hopefully it is the start of the healing.
            I hope your chest pains have eased. I can understand how people can die of a broken heart, after experiencing the effects of my husbands affair.

        • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 1:41 pm #

          Strengthrequired,

          I’m happy that you might have turned a corner like I have. What do you think that you did to accomplish that? I’m sure we could all benefit from it.

          I know how pain in your chest feels, which comes from stress. It’s scary and I’m glad yours has stopped. I pray that things get better for you.

          In regards to my Nerve Block today, they were not able to do it at this new Surgical Center. I was so upset, as I was in so much pain that I was in tears. It all had to do with me having 3 episodes of Anaphylactic Shock before. Also a latex allergy, which none of it made sense as I’ve had other Nerve block’s done before after these episodes and didn’t have any problems. My doctor stood up for me, but it’s up to the Surgical Center to take on that risk. So now I have to wait till Friday and have it done at a hospital. This is for a 20 minute at the most, procedure. It was a very upsetting morning, but I’m back home now.

          Take care of yourself and I’ll respond to more of the nice comments you made, but right now I feel like a zombie since being up since 5 and not going to sleep till early this morning. Still having trouble sleeping.

          Maxine6

          • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 8:48 pm #

            Maxine, I would like to tell you what has given me some power back, but I think I will just sound somewhat weird. Lol. Every time I write it out, I think I sound crazy, lol.
            My husband was depressed through business, finances, working long hours and feeling like he wasn’t getting anywhere, no one was paying, and I believe he felt like a failure. He hit his midlife crisis at the same time, and the ow just happened to feed him all the right things to cause him to have an affair with her.
            We separated for a month at the beginning, then he moved hime, but he kept seeing her on the side. We had to put up with her in our lives for a year, possibly even longer, I don’t know for sure, as 10 months into my husbands affair due to all the stress we moved to another home we had several ours away, I was going crazy. My husband moved with us, but due to our business being where we were before, he had to stay there most days.
            Yet I needed that time away, because it was so hard to cope with. She begged him when we moved to stay with her and leave me.
            We stayed away for just under two years, and ended up selling our property to make ends meet and move back to our home, which was now 9 months ago.
            He tells me he hasn’t seen her since four months after we moved, that was when she started showing more of her true colours. Yet tbh, I don’t know for sure when it stopped. Tbh I don’t think I care anymore.
            We have plans for the future, we have come a long way since dday, and having her finally out of our lives, he is better, still suffers the after affects from the stress his affair had on everything. Yet it is better.
            Hope you are getting your rest.

            • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 8:49 pm #

              I should say fhe hasn’t seen her for two years…

  18. Strengthrequired May 12, 2015 at 3:17 am #

    Amazing, hope you are ok.

    • Strengthrequired May 12, 2015 at 3:18 am #

      That was supposed to say Maxine, not sure what happened there.

    • Maxine6 May 12, 2015 at 5:36 pm #

      To Strengthrequired,

      It’s been a rough week since Mother’s day, except that my daughter-in-law in Rio did help me see things a lot clearer, so we have been doing a lot better right now. I’ll explain it later as my back is out since yesterday. Lots of pain. Thank goodness they are going to do a facet nerve block tomorrow since the pain is so great.

      The basic thing that she helped me figure out was, I had always told him and meant it myself was this. If he ever cheated on me, he was out the door. I didn’t do this, as I was in shock, pain, sadness,etc. and I was so mad at myself for not keeping my word. I didn’t even like myself anymore, because I felt like a liar. When he told me he slept with her, that should have done it right away, but I cried, instead of throwing him out with his suitcase.

      So, the question she asked me was this: “Why are you punishing yourself for something you did 30 yrs. ago?” Maybe at the time, you were suppose to do that. If you had divorced him, maybe your life wouldn’t have been the same with your children and grandchildren, so maybe it was the right thing to do at the time. That made a lot of sense to me and it had never been put to me in those exact terms, I don’t think? It made a lot of sense. We talked for 2 hrs. in the middle of the night, that’s what a caring person she is, she wanted to see me happy. I did feel such a sense of relief after our long talk.

      I will still be seeing a counselor, he’s agreed to go also. We even went to a company event last night and had a good time. I really miss it when he was working for them, the get togethers, conferences, etc. It was hard a few times as I knew that some of them knew what he had done. I had known most of these friends for over 30 yrs.

      Two daughter’s still aren’t speaking to me, but I don’t care. I stuck up for myself for once and they had better be glad that I really didn’t say a lot of other things. We shall see if we are invited to the party this weekend, if not, so what.

      Got to get off my tailbone, lots of pain right now. Will answer the rest of you either later tonight or after the nerve block, according to how I feel.

      Will keep you posted.

      Take care and thanks, Maxine6

  19. Strengthrequired May 12, 2015 at 6:35 pm #

    Maxine, I am pleased to hear that you were able to talk to someone such as your dil, that has helped you in some way come to terms with what is happening right now with you. I am so glad that she has helped you in this way to see things so,ewhat clearer. I do believe that we have a tendency to punish ourselves for trying to stick it out after such a huge betrayal of our love. Yet those of us that have stayed, do need to come to terms with our choice. Your dil is right, you were able to have a wonderful relationship with your children, they were able to have the chance of a wonderful relationship with their father, that is what any of us want for our children, so yes, it was meant to be, and yes your children benefitted having their family stay together, they grew up happyas well as safe and that was because of you.
    We try to keep our marriage together, because of the love we have for our families, we chose to stay because we felt it was right.
    You should be proud of yourself, you kept your family together, you were the backbone that gave your children the chance to have their dad and mum together. Please don’t look back and feel sadness about staying with your husband, look back and feel proud of yourself, because you were honourable and can hold your head up high. It doesn’t matter whether your husband loved the ow or not, because the love he had for you his wife and his children was way more stronger, she really was insignificant in his life, otherwise he would have left you, nothing would have kept him from staying. There would have been nothing you could have done, if she was that important to him. What I have noticed with a lot of men, is that they aren’t very good communicating their feelings, but what I do know is that him staying showed his love for you and his children, even if all we want is to feel that desire of being wanted after all they showed the ow. Yet we are better than that, as they had to show the ow a side of themselves, that was to seem irresistible so the ow would continue making them feel better about themselves. Yet we are comfortable, they know us, we know them, we knw I the real person they are.
    We can’t change the past, but we can give ourselves a better future which we can look forward to. So be proud of yourself, stop being so hard on yourself, you deserve happiness and you deserve peace.

    • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 1:16 am #

      Strengthrequired,

      Thank you for all the information and I’ll have to try to respond later today, as I have to get up at 5:15 for a Nerve Block of the facet joints in the morning and I’m falling asleep as I type.

      Blessings, Maxine

      • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 4:37 am #

        Maxine, I hope you feel better in the morning, get some rest after your nerve block, get your strength built back up. Take care of yourself, and I hope you are being looked after extra special tonight.

        • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 6:30 am #

          Maxine, I have been thinking about the reasons for why I have stayed with my husband.
          I loved him
          I tried for my children to keep us together, they deserved that.
          My marriage, my husband deserved me to try, especially after knowing and being married to him for more than twenty years. He was always of good character and morals, a good husband and father.
          I could see that my husband was not well, he was depressed and going through a midlife crisis, the last thing he needed was for me to turn my back on him.
          I also stayed because, there was no way I was going to let the ow anywhere near my children, especially considering my youngest at the time was just a year old. She was the last person I wanted around my children.
          Now I made my choice to stay, with many times my strength being tested, because he kept seeing her behind my back, yet I could also see him getting stronger and he kept giving me the extra strength to keep trying.

          Now I could have left so many times, I can’t sit here and question myself as to why I just didn’t leave with my children, because right now, although sometimes I may still be tested with the decisions he made to betray me and our family for this ow, he is still here with me, our children are happy.
          I’m not saying that I don’t often dwell on why he did this to us, but it is so draing, and quite honestly it hasn’t been good for my health. Why should I let what my husband and the ow did to me, take anymore from me than what was already taken.
          So my husband owns the choices he made to have an affair, as well as to stay married to me, I own the choices I made to stay and to accept that he did a terrible thing to us, but he is trying and deserves me to give him forgiveness. He knows the trust has been broken and that it may take some time for him to regain my trust, and has told me he accepts that.
          I do know however, that if I did not have children with him, Im not so sure I would have been so lenient with him, I may not have given him so many chances to redeem himself, but honestly I still would have definately given my all to at least try.
          I’m not sure if this helps you in any way, but I thought I would give you my reasons for staying and not leaving my marriage.
          Hugs to you.

          • Maxine6 May 13, 2015 at 2:12 pm #

            Strengthrequired,

            I should have read your story before I posted the question as to why you stayed and how you came to that decision. What a nice story you wrote and the reason’s you did what you did. I know with a little one, I sure wouldn’t have left. Now on the other hand, if he was still seeing her that would have been extremely hard, at least for me to do.

            Was he still living in the house with you after you found out about the affair? I apologize for not remembering all your story, it’s been such a stressful time for me, but I know it has for other’s also. If he was, that had to be so hard for you and how was he still working to make things better for you? I see that he was depressed also, which you didn’t state why? I am probably asking to many questions and I apologize for that.

            I like all the reason’s that you gave for staying, at least he was trying to be a good Father, unlike mine and I know he was helping you. My husband was never remorseful, add not being a good Father to that and our situations are very different. Mine is only now trying to change some.

            I’m glad that we have both seen some light in things and in the decisions we made. I can say without a doubt, if I was as young as you and my husband cheated on me and I didn’t have young children, I’m not sure what I would have done. Yours was depressed, I think mine was bored with life and wanted some excitement and she came on to him and he took the bait and went with it. I know he loved attention, as I gave him so much. Yes it’s hard to give up 20 yrs. or more of marriage. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like to look back at any of our life before and during the affair. It’s to painful as it reminds me of the life we had and how it I thought it was going to be as we grew older together. I’ve taken all those pictures down and what ever one’s that go in albums, I’ve put in a special envelope, I don’t want to see them as I was smiling so happily in them, never knowing what was truly going on behind my back.

            He’s going to have to answer to God someday, unless he totally repents for what he has done. I know he is enjoying a few moments of peace that we share every now and then, but again he lost his patience with me today, as I was so stressed after crying because they couldn’t do the procedure. Now that I think of it, I had sat on a bench, yet he didn’t sit down next to me and put his arms around me or anything like that. He just wanted to know what happened, so again, not sure if he’s capable of showing emotion. Time will tell.

            Blessings, Maxine6

  20. TrustingGod May 12, 2015 at 7:41 pm #

    Maxine6,
    I pray you heal quickly and that you can find the right counselor to help you both. I pray especially that your husband can find the strength to admit how much he’s mistreated you over the years and give you the repentant apology you deserve. I think a good act of repentance on his part might be telling your daughters he was wrong to go to them to complain about your reaction to his mistreatment, and to ask them to apologize to you for treating you so poorly when he wasn’t really helping you to move forward. But that is what I would want, maybe you have other ideas. They would at least have to apologize to me for treating me like that on Mother’s Day before I would even begin to care about them not wanting to be around me. Your daughter-in-law sounds great, and right about punishing yourself for what you didn’t do in the past. Hopefully your husband will see that it is easier in the long run to make a confession and show repentance so that he can receive the forgiveness he actually needs to be happy, than continuing on with selfishness that is just pushing you away. Then maybe you two could have more of those good times, ones with true connection and friendship. I long for this myself but think I will have to separate again and stick to my guns if I hope to see it. It’s hard, because I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t really care about him anymore. His behavior and weakness in putting others before me and our family just disgust me. His constant rejection of me and expectation that I be happy with crumbs and still treat him like he’s the best thing since sliced bread is too much. It’s hard to be grateful for the good things when I am really seeing how little he cares about losing his family.
    But maybe you will finally get the happiness of seeing your marriage restored.

  21. Rachel May 13, 2015 at 8:26 pm #

    I know the feeling of your heart breaking and feeling like you’ll die from it. We can’t because that means that the cheater wins.
    Eventually your hear will become one again. Gust give it time.
    Xxoo

    • Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 8:52 pm #

      How are you rachel, is all going well? How are you and your new man going?

  22. Rachel May 13, 2015 at 9:25 pm #

    All is going well. My new man is wonderful. Complete opposite of the ex. So weird doing things with him. No arguing, no flirting with other women. He has the patience of a saint.
    He’s been teaching me how to do things around my house . I was never allowed before. He’s very kind to me. We have fun. Life is different, relaxing. The eggshells are gone.
    How are you strength?

    • Maxine6 May 20, 2015 at 9:04 am #

      Rachel,

      I am so happy for you that you have found true love and someone who really deserves you. That’s everyone’s dream, to be appreciated and made to feel that they are the most important person in the world to them. Not seconds, crumbs, not respected, etc.

      So many marriages start out with love, then one of them either gets bored, isn’t putting anything into the marriage and starts to look elsewhere for something or someone to boost there ego. It doesn’t matter how much the BS has put into the marriage, how deep they have loved that person, it’s all about what the CS wants. That’s not love, it’s pure selfishness and looking out for oneself. Marriage is about giving unselfish love and if you don’t do that, it’s not really love.

      I’ll never understand why some people even get married. They need to really look inside there heart before they take that vow. Respect is so important in a marriage and yet my CH said he never thought about that word when he cheated on me. He never could come up with a word that described what he thought he was doing to me? But all of this is negative and you don’t need that. I am so glad that you are happy and it took a lot of strength to do what you did. Congratulations, Rachel!
      M6

      • Rachel May 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

        Thanks Maxine.
        Yes I wonder too why my ex even married me?
        He said I didn’t make him happy.
        Only one cousin in his family is married out of 7. One of the cousins committed sucicide because he was severely depressed.
        I think depression is part of my ex’s problem but he blamed me instead of getting help.
        I begged him to but he said he didn’t want to change his personality . Haha!

  23. Strengthrequired May 13, 2015 at 10:46 pm #

    Rachel, he sounds wonderful, and well deserving of you. I’m truly happy for you.
    I am ok, I try each day lately to keep a smile on my face. husband still works all the time, so hoping one day he will change the way he works and be home more.
    My husband keeps talking about our future plans, what he wants and would like to do, so I let him go, it makes him happy. When he does talk this way, I can sort of picture it, but n like I used to be able to prior to his affair. Hopefully one day I will be able to see it clearly again like he does.
    So one day at a time for me.

  24. TryingHard May 14, 2015 at 5:14 pm #

    Betrayed

    You know what’s better than hating? Not caring!! Every time I try to “go there”. I say out loud, I DON’T CARE!!! I’ve also quit looking for answers and just let it be. I live my life and frankly these days I have way bigger fish to fry than my husband’s stupidity. Besides he’s been great and I am grateful for that. So no, you finally get to the point where you quit going back there. Focus on the straight ahead. But when there are problems on your straight ahead road that ugly past comes roaring back!

    Sounds like your doing well. I’m certain there’s a good one out there for you. If that’s what you want 🙂

    • betrayedchump May 14, 2015 at 8:32 pm #

      SR,
      Yes indeed, I DON’T CARE was the next step for me after I HATE YOU!
      You know what SR? I don’t think there are answers for the CS’s affair/bad choice/mistake? Once one can be @ peace with either the answers they have gotten & they are enough, or just move past all the questions without any answers, then one can just let it be & try to keep moving on!
      Keep the Faith, your marriage is worth fighting for, fight on, fight until you don’t have to fight anymore & revived love carries you till the very end!!!!
      “When you’re at the end of your rope, tie a knot and hold on”
      ― Theodore Roosevelt
      Peace to All

  25. Tryinghard May 15, 2015 at 8:27 am #

    Maxine
    I agree with you DIL. You are punishing yourself for the past. You have a bad case of the “what ifs”.

    You say you and your husband will be going to counseling? I hope it helps you. But I think you should prepare yourself of the very real possibility that there has been or were more affairs. Maybe even since the one you knew about. I hope you can handle it if that truth comes out. The fact is you will NEVER know the whole truth and your own mind will conjure up many scenarios, true or not. This is a constant battle for betrayed spouses. We fight it day in day out. I choose not to give those thoughts any power over me and keep me miserable. Life is too short. There’s way too much living to do to stay stuck in my “what ifs”. It is what it is. My life is what it is. I try not to put all my self worth and value and relevance on my marital status. I am more than simply a wife.

    You told CBB that if you found out your husband was a serial cheater, or had more than one affair you couldn’t stay. Well I think that’s good you know yourself so well and I agree you shouldn’t. I just hope you are preparing yourself for that very real possibility.

  26. Maxine6 May 15, 2015 at 10:58 am #

    Hi Tryinghard,

    Yes, I was and didn’t even realize it until my daughter-in-law pointed it out to me. Six counselors had never said that to me in the past 3 yrs. I never could find the right one, but will look again after by back calms down from the Nerve Block I just had for my back.

    Yes, I do have a bad case of wanting to know the answers to the 3 yrs. missing in my life. I have no doubt that my husband did not have more than that one affair. I would stake my life on it.

    What I told CBb, was ‘If I found out that he had SEX with the OW than I would divorce him.” I didn’t say anything about doing something if he was a serial cheater as I know he’s not.

    Like I said, you are a strong lady to be able to do what you do with staying with your husband if he’s going to continue to cheat, that just something I couldn’t do. You are right, I will probably never know the whole truth and I hate that, but their is nothing I can do about it. He will pay for his sins when he goes to his maker. I can go knowing that I never did anything compared to him.

    You are a strong woman and I’m glad that you are able to do what you are doing now with your husband. I wish you nothing but good health and happiness in whatever you do in your life.

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Maxine6

    • TryingHard May 15, 2015 at 11:23 am #

      Indeed Maxine. Seeing or having sex with another person, same thing. He could be meeting her for coffee every morning and never touching. In my book that’s cheating. But I have firm boundaries now.

      People like to muddy the infidelity waters with their own definitions of cheating and their boundaries. I don’t know why. It’s as if we want to say “well at least he didn’t do X,Y,Z” so it’s ok and I can stay because at least he’s not as bad as so and so.

      I guess it depends on what one’s own personal definition of sex and cheating is. So is it cheating if it’s only oral sex? Or is it cheating if it’s intercourse? What if a condom was worn? What if a condom wasn’t worn? What if it’s him masturbating to the thoughts of her? Where is the personal line for cheating? I suppose we all have one.

      As far as I’m concerned my husband shows one iota of disrespect, I’m gone, cheating or not. My personal belief is that infidelity has very little to do with sex and everything to do with disrespect and entitlement. And respect is a two way street.

      • Maxine6 May 17, 2015 at 6:14 pm #

        TryingHard,
        I know that a betrayal of even a phone call between OW and my husband is wrong, lunch is wrong, all of it is a betrayal. I couldn’t have been hurt anymore than I felt when I found out that he had seen another woman for lunch for a few months than I was in the beginning. I drove home for 3 miles, my feet feeling like they never touched the petals, that’s how much shock I felt. I curled up in the guest room, which is where I should have sent him, since he wouldn’t leave the house when I told him to after 2 hours of arguing and me screaming and crying. I slept that night curled up in a ball, stomach pains, holding those awful letter’s he wrote her of his love for her and how no one had ever meant as much to him as her and cried the rest of night in a fitful sleep. That’s how betrayed I felt over lunch’s for a few months. It was a betrayal and it was awful. I wished I could just die that night, I was so hurt.

        He’s the one that could justify that if he didn’t have sex supposedly that he could handle what he was doing. So any form of sex, oral, anything erotic to me was cheating and disrespectful and betrayal. I don’t know how to say it any other way.

        I can’t understand how he thinks that because he says that he wasn’t going to have sex with her in anyway that it was okay to go off for a weekend and get in bed with her was justified in his mind or anyone’s.

        I have struggled for 5 yrs. to get through what he did, with 4 D-days in regards to it. I so regret not divorcing him back then at 43. Kicking him out the next day, so many things. I was in such a state of shock that I couldn’t even function. The one thing in my life that I thought would never happen to us, due to the love I thought we had that was special, really wasn’t on his part. I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE AND I ACKNOWLEDGE IT, but I can’t take it back now, unless I divorce at 71.

        My CS never even thought of the word “respect” as we have discussed this many times recently. I don’t know why that word wasn’t mentioned 27 yrs. ago? Do I think that he thought he was entitled, yes I do. He felt superior due to his executive position and all the praise he always got at work and from me. So, I guess in his mind, when she came on to him he enjoyed it and went for it. I don’t know, I’m not him and could never do that to anyone. I have to much respect for myself. You are right, respect is a two way street and I think that’s why I have struggled all these yrs. to get over it. I could still leave today and not regret it. I can live on my own and be happy. It all comes down to what you want to do to a family unit.

        Sometimes being on this site is hard. I read what you say and totally agree with you. I listen to my daughter-in-law where we discuss this situation for 2 hrs. in the middle of the night and come to the conclusion that “I should forgive myself for the decision that I made.” I did what I thought was right at the time and who knows how my life would have been in our family unit if we divorced? Was it better to stay or should I have left. There are so many opinions on this site on how people feel and it doesn’t mean that one is not any better than someone else’s.

        I take a few steps forward and now I feel that I’ve taken a few steps backwards. I appreciate and hear what your saying, but my body and mind just can’t deal with anything more. The stress that I am under, the back pain, panic attacks and depression. My 2 daughter’s being against me going back on this and one pretty much turning her back on me is awful. I have 7 grandchildren who I love and even though I don’t see them very much, I would miss being part of the family when we get together. So this is all I can do right now, maybe my MISTAKE was what I was suppose to do with my life, only God knows.

        Maxine6

        • Strengthrequired May 17, 2015 at 6:59 pm #

          Maxine, just want to send you some hugs.

  27. Maxine6 May 17, 2015 at 7:41 pm #

    Strengthrequired,

    Thank you, I need some right now. I hope you are still doing well. I only have a few moments now, am late in starting dinner. I did get my facet nerve block, but he had a hard time and couldn’t get the needle in between the disks, so he could only do the nerve part. I’ve been feeling better, but am hurting bad now as I’ve sat to much today.

    It just seems like you are on a roller coaster sometimes. I had a good time at my daughter’s big party yesterday, but I was also disappointed as my grandson’s hardly talked to me and I don’t know why. Not sure if they were aware of what happened on Mother’s day or not? Of course they had been on the party float with all there business friends all day, of course drinking beer, floating in the lake and having a great time, so maybe I was expecting to much. Yet, they all laughed and talked to there Grandpa, so that didn’t make sense to me. I felt very shunned by them. Then I took a lot of pictures of people at my daughter’s party of about 80 people, am going to make her a nice book out of it. When someone wanted to take a picture with her and me together, I put my arms around her and I could feel her pulling away, yet she has always done that. She doesn’t like hugs or to be close to people, will never understand it. So, I was really depressed by time I got home. I tried to explain it to my husband and it just didn’t seem to get it. He’s not a good listener, I didn’t expect him to fix it, like he thinks he’s suppose to. He just never says the right thing.

    Anyway, then got the other comment, which made me feel so mixed up. Got to fix dinner. Thanks for your support, take care and will talk more later.

    Maxine6

  28. betrayedchump May 18, 2015 at 2:21 pm #

    M6,
    1. Make Peace with Your Past so it does not spoil your present. Your past does not define your future – you actions and beliefs do.

    2. What others think of you is none of your business. It is how much you value yourself and how important you think you are.

    3. Time heals almost everything give time, time. Pain will be less hurting. Scars make us who we are, they explain our life and who we are, they challenge us and force us to be strong.

    4. No one is the reason for your own happiness, except you yourself. Waste no time and effort searching for peace and contentment and joy in the world outside.

    5. Don’t compare your life with others’ you have no idea what their journey is about. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else’s, we would grab ours back as fast as we could.

    6. Stop thinking too much it’s all right not to know all the answers. Sometimes there is no answer, not going to be any answer, never has been an answer. That’s the answer! Just accept it, move on. Next!

    7. Smile you don’t own all the problems in the world. A smile can brighten the darkest day and make life more beautiful. It is a potential curve to turn a life around and set everything straight.

    [written by Stephen Covey]

    Peace to All

    • Maxine6 May 18, 2015 at 3:33 pm #

      betrayedchump,

      As I sit here ready to scream, I see your reply or post come in. I am so sick of this roller coaster and I want to get off and run in another direction. I thought I had made a turn around but every time I get overwhelmed and my CH doesn’t handle things right and we get into another argument where he talks so ugly or arrogant to me, I just want to quit and leave.

      I thought I had made a break through and forgiven myself for the decision I had recently made after talking with my DIL, but now I find myself feeling the same way again. Like I can’t ever handle the betrayal, period. I don’t like myself again, don’t like him and don’t want to be around anyone. I just want to crawl in a hole and pull the cover’s over it. If everyone want’s honesty, that is how I feel.

      I have always been an honest person and right now, I don’t feel that I am being honest with myself, because I can’t do what my family (children) want me to do. I’ve listened to everyone like you’ve pointed out not to do and your right. If I’m being truthful with myself, this is not the kind of life that I want or signed up for. I can’t be something I’m not, as I’m not being true to myself. I guess I thought I could forgive myself and move on, but obviously I can’t after what happened a while ago. One thing goes wrong and the whole world blows up, with me in it.

      I know I’m responsible for my own happiness,

      I keep trying to make peace with my past and I don’t know why something isn’t allowing me to do it? Do I have to take anti-depressants to not think about the betrayal and the kind of husband I married, in order to stay married? I can’t move forward as I feel planted in the ground, no matter how hard I try to get out of that black hole. Don’t you think I would like to look at the world as a beautiful place like a lot of other people do? I try and I slip back into the darkness again. I read the obituaries and see how some people die so young and think, how sad, then realize how my life is slipping away before my eyes and I’m on this Merry Go Round and can’t get off?

      In reference to #6. I have always wanted to know the answer’s as life is a puzzle and I’ve got over 300 pieces or so missing out of my life during those 3 yrs. and sometimes I don’t think of it and then I can’t stop myself, no matter how much I distract myself and it crops up again.

      I was so happy when I thought I had made a break through and now I feel like I did before that happened. In my mind, there is always an answer for everything we do or else we wouldn’t do it. I think my CH remember’s, but either he has blocked it out of his mind because he’s embarrassed over what he did or it’s more than I know and he doesn’t want me to find out. How is a marriage to live is there are lies and what kind of person am I married to if he can’t and won’t tell me the honest truth? I think I deserve it, don’t you?

      I always smile at other people, it’s still hard to smile with or at him. I don’t know why as I know there are so many people so much worse off than I am.

      Thanks for your help, I’m just back in a dark place right now and I don’t know why?

      Peace to You Also, Maxine6

      • betrayedchump May 18, 2015 at 4:02 pm #

        M6-
        1. Become clear on your morals and values as they are right now.

        The reason most of us feel guilt or shame for actions done in the past is because those actions are not in line with our current morals and values. Our past wrongs can actually clue us in to what we hold important. By identifying our morals and values, we start to get a clearer picture as to “why” we’re hurting over what we’ve done, or what others did to us.

        2. Realize that the past is the past.

        This seems fairly straightforward, but when we can really wrap our head around the fact that we can’t undo the past, the past is done, those things happened, we open ourselves up to more acceptance. Increased acceptance can lead to the emotional healing we are all looking for.

        3. Create a “re-do.”

        Never underestimate the power of a “re-do”. Write down how you would have done things differently if you could go back and do it again. In doing so, we affirm that we not only learned from our past mistake, but that if we had the skills we have now, back then, we would have done things differently.

        4. Realize you did the best you could at the time.

        The way we respond depends on the skills we have, the frame of mind we’re in, and how we perceive the situation at that moment. Maybe we didn’t have as much objectivity, or acted out of survival or protection mode. Maybe we’d let stress build up, which put us at a higher risk of responding poorly. Whatever the factors, cut yourself a break. If you learn from it, it was never in vain.

        5. Start acting in accordance with your morals and values.

        The best thing you can do for yourself in order to forgive is start replacing the negative behavior and thoughts with more appropriate ones that are congruous with your morals and values. By so doing, you reaffirm to yourself that you can handle situations in the way you want to. This can lead to a sense of pride, which is a huge part of building self-esteem.

        6. Identify your biggest regrets.

        When I work with clients on moving on from their past, it can be very overwhelming for them because they see so many regrets. It’s often helpful to categorize these things because people often only hold on to a handful of big categories/patterns. Working on patterns of behavior is often more helpful than working on individual regrets.

        7. Tackle the big ones.

        There may be some regrets that don’t seem to improve, and they’re going to require some extra work. I call it “clearing your conscience.” This means it might take bringing this regret into the room and apologizing for your past mistake.

        8. Turn the page.

        At some point, you have to accept that the past has happened and you’ve done everything in your power to amend past mistakes. It’s now time to turn the page and accept those events as part of your story. They’ve all contributed to making you who you are. Being grateful for those experiences allows you to move on and truly forgive yourself.

        9. Cut yourself some slack.

        When we learned how to ride a bike, most of us realized it would probably take a few tries before achieving perfection. New behavior and thinking patterns are no different. They’re both skills. Cut yourself some slack while you’re on a new learning curve. Realize that you’re going to make mistakes. We all do.

        10. Move toward self-love.

        The last step in building self-esteem is moving toward loving yourself. Think kind thoughts toward yourself and show yourself some compassion. If we can learn to think of ourselves as our best friend, to speak to ourselves with love and kindness, and put ourselves as a priority, it reaffirms that we believe we are worth it. Engage in psychotherapy or coaching if you need some outside perspective in this area. Seek books on this subject. Surround yourself with supportive people.

        You are more than your past mistakes, and I promise you, you are so worth it!!
        Peace to All

        • Maxine6 May 18, 2015 at 4:15 pm #

          Betrayedchump,

          Thank you for all your help and quick response. You must have a degree in psychology or something similar.

          I have read everything you have wrote and I understand where you are going, but I will need time to digest it. I can say with all sincerity I will never be grateful for the experience of the affair, never. I could have and did learn from a lot of other mistakes, but that was the one I thought I would never experience and I hate it every time it enter’s my mind. I seriously don’t think I will ever be at peace until I leave and don’t have to look at the man that betrayed me again. I hate to say that, but it is the route I keep going back to. I know I will lose the family unit by doing so, but I have got to think of myself for once. I’ve thought of pleasing everyone all my life, was taught that and did it, I just don’t think I can or want to anymore.

          If I wasn’t continually put in positions with company coming, graduation ceremonies, etc., maybe I could get out the door.

          What is your career if you don’t mind me asking?

          Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to try and help me, I appreciate it. I have got to rest now.

          Peace,
          Maxine6

  29. betrayedchump May 18, 2015 at 4:26 pm #

    M6,
    Hang in there, that dark place you are in always is hard to get out of but you will get out, been there, done that!!!! Will you never go back to or into that dark place? I wish I could tell you that you will never go there again but that just isn’t the truth in my experience! Focus on #2, #4, #8, #9 & #10, stop being your own worst critic, quit beating yourself up about what you did versus what you wish you would’ve done!!!! GET OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!!! Leave that dark cloud @ home, in your bedroom, the kitchen, the living room, just leave it somewhere in your home, don’t take it out with you. Go volunteer @ the homeless shelter, the animal shelter, nursing home, hospital, anywhere where there is a need for you to help someone else in any way that is possible for you to do just that. GO HELP SOMEONE!!!! You will find that this will help yourself more than you can imagine!!!! IMO you are looking for help/answers from the wrong person, your CS. He obiviously can’t or doesn’t want to help/answer what you are looking for & needing @ this point in time!!!! Will he be able to later? I don’t know & I don’t have the answer for that question, only time will tell.
    “The Paradoxical Commandments

    People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
    Love them anyway.

    If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
    Do good anyway.

    If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies.
    Succeed anyway.

    The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
    Do good anyway.

    Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
    Be honest and frank anyway.

    The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.
    Think big anyway.

    People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.
    Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

    What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
    Build anyway.

    People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.
    Help people anyway.

    Give the world the best you have and you’ll get kicked in the teeth.
    Give the world the best you have anyway.”
    ― Kent M. Keith
    Peace to All

  30. Maxine6 May 18, 2015 at 5:41 pm #

    Betrayedchump,

    You have some very good advice. You never answered what your profession is or was? Do you mind telling me that or not? You think very deeply and are very smart, yet sensitive in your advice. Where can I read your story or what you went through and maybe I can understand what has helped you be the way you are?

    Everything you said, I hear you. I have done all those things that you have told me to do for years. I volunteered about 3 day’s or more a week singing and talking to the elderly in the Nursing, Retirement, Alzheimer home’s. I loved the smile and joy on there face while singing meaningful and spiritual songs or any songs with a message to give them joy. I did this for 15 yrs. and stopped about 5 yrs. ago. I sang in the choir, I took care of both my Mom & Dad when they were very ill and before my Mom died, along with my brother. I took care of my mentally ill brother when he was about 8 for the summer everyday and loved helping him to cope with life. My daughter, oldest one always thought that I did it to get attention. It use to make me so mad as she never believed that was a gift from my soul and heart to make them smile, not to show off and hear people clap.

    My dream as a child was to sing for a living, instead I fell in love and got married at 18, dumb when I look back on it. But at least at the age of 55, I got to realize that dream when I met my piano player on a cruise ship and started singing with him for many yrs. till he died at 62 of cancer.

    My granddaughters sang with me most of the time, along with singing with him until they moved away about 8 yrs. ago. I got depressed after that as it brought me great joy to sing with them and watch them sing.

    I use to sing all day before the affair, I taught my twin grandson’s to sing. But after the first yr. of finding out about the affair, I didn’t turn the radio on for a whole yr. and it’s never on now. They tell you that singing makes you happy, but I have to be happy inside in order to sing. It’s just the way I am.

    Thank you for putting all the effort into helping me, like so many other’s on here have tried to do. It is appreciated, but I’m not the easiest person to help. I try, but I do think very deep, am very sensitive and get hurt very easily. I try to be strong, but I have been knocked down by so many family members and that hurts worse than anything else. I do try, but it is definitely a battle every day. I would love to feel at peace again someday.

    Peace to You,
    Maxine6

    I signed

    • betrayedchump May 18, 2015 at 8:10 pm #

      M6,
      My advice is good, I am a deep thinker, smart & sensitive? Well if you ask my x I think she would have a different opinion on that & who & what I am!
      What is my profession? ???? I don’t have one now, mine ended with the old life I was living. I have a NEW life now & with that I WILL have a NEW HOMETOWN, a NEW HOME, a NEW PROFESSION, NEW FRIENDS, NEW ADVENTURES, NEW MEMORIES & Hopefully Someday, Someone NEW to share my NEW LIFE with!!!!
      If you notice anything about the above satement, take notice of “NEW”! NOT “old” or “used to do” nor “what I have done/accomplished in the past”!!!! The past is the past, I can’t change what happened in the past, I can only change myself & my surroundings so I can LIVE from this day forward how I want to LIVE! To become a better human, man, father, grandfather, partner/lover/ friend & friend to those who want to be in my life!!!!
      Yes all the things you did before to help others is admirable & if no one ever told you before, I will tell you know, Thank You for giving of yourself to others!!!! However that was before, NOT NOW! When I suggested to you to GET OUT OF YOUR HOUSE & GO HELP SOMEONE ELSE IN ANYWAY THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF, I MEAN NOW!!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!
      You need to feel good about yourself, YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!!! There is no better way to start that journey (IMO) than to get out & help someone else NOW!!!! You will stop thinking about how bad your life is, how much of your life you wasted, what you should’ve done versus what you did, & how he could’ve done this to me!!!!
      Life is to fricking short for those of us over 50!!!!! Is this how you want everyone that knows you to remember you? Is this how you want to be for the rest of your life? Only you & God have the power/permission to change who you are & who you want to become!!!! Take your power back, give yourself permission to forgive yourself & live your NEW life from this day forward as you want to live it!!!! If your CS wants to be a part of your NEW life, Great, he will, if he doesn’t he won’t! He has free will, there is NOTHING you can do, NOTHING, to change who he was/is! Only God & your CS have the power to change him. STOP TRYING! QUIT GIVING HIM THE POWER OVER YOUR LIFE, YOUR HAPPINESS, YOUR FUTURE!!!! IT IS YOURS NOT HIS, NEVER HAS BEEN HIS, NEVER WILL BE HIS UNLESS YOU LET IT BE SO!!!!
      Easier said than done I know firsthand but it must be done in order to keep your sanity!!!!
      “Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.”
      ― Mark Twain
      Peace to All.

      • Tryinghard May 18, 2015 at 8:25 pm #

        RIGHT ON BETRAYEDCHUMP!!!!!!! Maxine, it’s NEVER too late to have a happy life. Your husband makes you miserable get out. Find your happiness. I agree 100% about helping others. I would love to volunteer at the children’s hospital in my town but I still work full time. Get out of that house.

        • Strengthrequired May 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm #

          Betrayed, you have offered Maxine and I am sure many who find themselves some great words of wisdom. If there is anything we who have been betrayed by our significant other, is to stop making them our priority especially when we are not theirs. We need to look after ourselves and stop relying on them to make us happy, after all they have done a pretty crappy job at that. Yet when you have young children, it’s not something you can do so easily, making yourself number one, because they have to come first. Yet I have always placed my husband ahead of myself. He on the other hand, does what he wants, comes home when he wants, and barely calls to say that he will be late, he doesn’t say a word.
          He does that because he feels entitled.

          • betrayedchump May 18, 2015 at 9:26 pm #

            SR,
            BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES!BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES! BOUNDARIES!
            SET YOUR BOUNDARIES, NO EXCEPTIONS, NO GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARDS, STOP ENABLING!!!!
            You know he is NOT entitled, just because he thinks he is, he ISN’T!!!! There MUST be consequences for his words, deeds & actions when he crosses/destroys your boundaries!!!!! I am NOT saying divorce him, I am saying YOU need to determine what you are willing/capable of doing to him to show him that he MUST HONOR YOUR BOUNDARIES!!!!
            I HOPE & PRAY that you & your partner can save, repair, renew your relationship/marriage but it is a two-way street, NOT a one-way street!!!! RESPECT, COMMITMENT, HONOR, VALUES, MORALS are also a two-way street!!!!
            “Love is not really a mystery. It is a process like anything else. A process that requires trust, effort, focus and commitment by two willing partners”
            ― Elizabeth Bourgeret
            Peace to All.

            • Maxine6 May 18, 2015 at 11:24 pm #

              Betrayed champ,
              Thanks for all the wonderful advice and everyone else’s also. I’m sure I have been a nightmare to get through to, but I’m a sincere but complicated person who believes in right and wrong. If its wrong you don’t do it. That’s how I’ve lived my life and believe in “the Golden Rule.” So yes it’s very hard for me to accept betrayal as hard as I give my love.

              I hear all of you and some excellent advice given by Betrayedchamp, along with all your helpful comments and learn from them. Is it easy, NO its not, especially at my age, wanting a marriage where I can feel the love you need to make a marriage what it should be. Not just to settle for crumps. So far I’m not feeling that love inside that makes you happy to be alive. I shouldn’t have to get it from strangers. Volunteering is wonderful but you should come home to a special love or else that’s not the life you want to end up with? Does this make any sense to anyone. Thanks to everyone for your help.
              Blessings, Maxine6

              • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 5:13 pm #

                M6,
                Here is the reason I suggested to you to GET OUT OF YOUR HOUSE & VOLUNTEER, SO YOU WILL FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF!!!! It is NOT to find/feel LOVE from strangers, it is to find/feel LOVE FOR YOURSELF, WHO YOU REALLY ARE!!!! NOT WHO YOU THINK YOU HAVE BECOME BEAUSE OF THE AFFAIR/BETRAYAL!!!! FUCK DOUBT, FEAR & EXCUSES/REASONS to stay stuck in the whirlpool of anger, agony, anguish, guilt, hurt, shame, woulda, coulda, shoulda!!!! SCREAM, YELL, HOLLER, STOMP, POUND YOUR FISTS INTO A PILLOW, YELL @ GOD, THE BIRDS, THE SUN, THE MOON, THE CLOUDS, THE WIND, THE CAR, THE TREES, THE GRASS, THE TV, THE RADIO!!!! GET IT OUT, ALL OF IT, ALL THE HURT, THE ANGER, EVERYTHING, JUST DO IT & DO IT NOW!!!!! Never forget that you have a SPECIAL LOVE for you always, you are NEVER alone!!!! GOD always LOVES you, FORGIVES you, WANTS you & WAITS for you to come to him with your burdens, GIVE THEM TO HIM!!!!
                “If you are going through hell, keep going.”
                ― Winston S. Churchill
                Peace to All.

                • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 6:53 pm #

                  betrayedchump,

                  I have given my burdens over to God, maybe I’m doing something wrong as I don’t feel that He hears me. Have you ever prayed, asked for help and for some reason you feel like your not being heard? That’s how I feel and have for a while. I lay still, waiting to see if God hears my plea’s as He has done yrs. ago and he did answer my prayers. I went outside one night when I couldn’t sleep, looked up at the sky and said, “God are you really up there, are you listening to me?” I questioned His very existence. I went back in the house, where I played in bed next to my sleeping husband in the dark and all of a sudden, I felt the lightest touch on my right shoulder, like a feather. I sat immediately in the bed, crying silently and said, “You haven’t forgotten me, You are there” as I cried silently to myself, but in happiness instead of sorrow.

                  I’ve done the screaming to the top of my lungs, everything in me where I was so angry with everyone, that the blood curdling scream that came from within me didn’t sound human. I did the same thing several times after I found out about the affair years ago. Got a punching bag and hit it as hard as I could. Beat the tennis ball as hard as I could against the wall, thinking it was him that I was hitting that ball at. Believe me when I tell you, I don’t even have any strength left in me to hit something or scream anymore. Is that good, probably not. I’m just worn out from all that I’ve been through in my life. I could write a book and probably should, without naming names. If there is any anger left, it has to do with two things. One that I didn’t kick him out the door when I found out about the betrayal, of course I tried, but he wouldn’t leave. I should have called the police, never thought of it though. Didn’t do it when I found out about more lies that made the affair so much worse, not that there are degree’s. If I could stress anything to anyone, it would be, an affair involves anything that means you are seeing someone besides your spouse, even if its a lunch. If you can’t tell your spouse about it, it’s a lie. No levels of betrayal, period. You didn’t take those vows for nothing.

                  The second reason is that I am putting on a front in front of my children and other’s when we go anywhere together or are involved with family. We act civil to each other, no arguing, my inside myself, I know that I can’t find any feelings for him and I hate myself for staying in a relationship that is built on a lie. I guess, I keep hoping that those feeling’s will come back, like they did after the initial affair happened, where I made the decision to love him again and move forward. THOSE ARE THE TWO REASON’S THAT I DON’T LOVE OR LIKE MYSELF. I’ve always based my life on honesty and I don’t feel that I am being honest with myself or others, not that it’s any of there business.

                  I told you that I do feel alone, children don’t approve of what I am doing to there Dad, don’t understand as I didn’t do anything wrong, except divorce him 27 yrs. ago and I can’t take that back, unless I do it now. I know you told me not to worry about what people think, but this is an uncomfortable situation to be in as my family is there and I feel so shunned by my daughter and son-in-law, both sets.

                  It’s so hard to explain how I feel about myself. I basically could say that I do love myself, but I don’t like myself. I love my values, ethic’s, love for others, ( I don’t include my husband in that, sorry, he just doesn’t deserve it) my faith, honesty and deep down inside, I know that I am a good person. I don’t lie, steel or cheat on anything or anyone and never have. I still say it comes down to living “The Golden Rule.”

                  Yes, I’ve been through hell and back to many times to remember in my life. So many things that happened were so, so unfair. I guess in Catholic school we were taught that if we treated people good, we would be treated the same and we wouldn’t be hurt by the people we love. My parents taught us the same thing, but it sure isn’t true. No matter how hard we try to be a good person, we have no control over how our partner, or family or friends and people in general aren’t guaranteed to do the same.

                  I guess we need to live on a desert Island, not to be hurt by another human being. On that note, I’ll close for now.

                  Thanks again for all that you do to help other’s. God will repay as will other’s for what you do to help other’s.

                  Maxine6

            • Strengthrequired May 19, 2015 at 12:26 am #

              Betrayed, you are right,. You are a man, how do you get your husband to hear you, without you having to leave with the kids to do that? I see my little ones happy, I don’t want to put them through any more heartache. They have been through enough. They are happy we are together, they need us to stay together.
              He works long hours, so of course he feels entitled to do what he wants. I do know I enable him, I have enabled him for so long even prior to his affair, because I felt bad that he was working so hard, the last thing he needed was me nagging him.
              So really it is hard to get him to do what I need. Even though I mentioned to him, that it shouldn’t be too hard, because everything I had asked of him, he did for her, yet I still don’t get it.
              I’m trying really hard not to pull away from him anymore than what I feel like I have already. Do you know it is even hard for him to write a card to me, he says he never knows what to write. I’m sure he had no trouble when it came to impressing his skank. How important did she feel every time he ditched me and our kids to be with her.
              I bet she felt very special.

              • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 3:12 am #

                Strengthrequired,

                I don’t know how you get them to do things for you. Mine does a lot, groceries, laundry, dishes, etc., it’s the empathy, emotional support, being unselfish, putting me first, even though he doesn’t agree with what I am doing.

                I did everything you did, took the responsibilities off of him at home, as he had a very important job, required a lot of focus, etc. I did the yard, house, barbecue, cooking, painting house, making curtains, you name it and I did it. Was it appreciated, some maybe, but mostly I think he expected it and I did it out of love to help him. Where in the hell did it get me, no where. He still cheated, not that was the reason I did everything, I was trying to be helpful like you. Make your man happy, have the house clean, dinner on the table, kid’s quite, don’t bug him with problems when he walks in the door. Look fresh and sexy later if that’s what he wanted and maybe you didn’t that night. A typical 60’s, 70’s wife who didn’t have a career. After all he brought in the money, right. We were just the housewives who raised, bore his children.

                I went for yrs. not even getting him a card, because so many of them didn’t apply to him, which made me so sad. He said he had the same problem this Mother’s Day, which makes no sense as I was a good Mother to 3 children.

                Like I said, he never wrote any long message on my card’s, but boy did he write some incredible things to her. “I can’t imagine life without you, I have never loved anybody in my life as much as I love you.” “I look so forward to spending every moment with you and those moments are so special to me.” I think about you everyday of my life and love you so much, etc.

                Now tell me that doesn’t hurt to read that he wrote that to his girlfriend and never said anything close to that on a card or verbally in 25 yrs. to me. Yet, he had no trouble expressing his feeling’s of commitment to her. Who he had known for 3 or more yrs. and me for over 28, but never expressed his feelings that strong in writing or talking to me. Even now he doesn’t write things like that to me.

                I too feel myself pulling away from him as I am angry inside, at myself for not divorcing him 28 yrs. ago and I don’t feel anything right now. I feel so dead inside.

                So, I sympathize with you, but again we have no answer’s.

                Got to get some rest now.

                I did forget to mention the reason it’s so hard to get out of the house is my panic attacks
                Maxine6

                • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 5:57 pm #

                  M6,
                  “Some days you’re the bug, some days you’re the windshield.”― Steven Tyler
                  Panic/anxiety attacks? Know all about them, fight them each & everyday, sometimes they win (bug) can’t get through a haircut, dentist appointment, wedding reception, birthday party. Sometimes they don’t (windshield) & I do get to do what I set out to to do that day!!!!
                  Peace to All.

                  • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 7:06 pm #

                    betrayedchump,

                    So you know what I’m referring to? Sorry to hear that you have them also. Mine started a year after I found out about the affair, never had them before. Was at a building for some material for a spa, came on me all of a sudden, had no idea what was going on. My legs felt disconnected from my body, couldn’t even talk, hardly could walk, felt like I was going to pass out. The place called my husband to come and get me as I sure couldn’t drive. That’s how they started and some day’s they are worse than other’s. Hard to get out of the house sometimes. I don’t know how I ever performed in front of 2000 people on a cruise ship several times. Did my own shows for years. It sometimes would take all I could do to get there, but once I started singing, they would go away, at least enough to sing. Was I still nervous, yes I was. So we share the same problem, but stress does make mine worse and it’s been a hard 6 yrs. They take so much out of you. My best way for them to go away is to go to sleep and cover up my head sometimes and if the brain won’t stop, I keep repeating The Our Father, over and over again.

                    Thanks friend, blessings to you, M6

                • Strengthrequired May 21, 2015 at 4:58 am #

                  Maxine, hope your feeling ok.

                  • Maxine6 May 21, 2015 at 8:46 am #

                    Strengthrequired,

                    Thank you so much for asking. I’m in terrible pain and so frustrated with it. I had the Facet joints worked on about 10 days ago and he couldn’t get the needle in as far as he wanted. From the L-3 to L-5. He’s a good doctor and another one couldn’t do it either.

                    Along with my husbands help yesterday, we finally moved my winter clothes into another closet. Put the summer one’s into mine. It was an all day job and still never got my music room cleaned with junk in it. I am in so much pain and am totally exhausted. I’m so sick of pain and I will be seeing my pain management doctor on Wednesday. I had called for him to add a few extra pain pills as I’ll be making a trip home, 9 hrs. drive and my daughter-in-law from Rio in coming in the morning for 5 days.

                    The pool coping due to a company suggesting that pain could go on it. It totally ruined it and now we are dealing with a mess with the pain company as it’s all got to be chipped off and replaced and we are praying that they stand behind there mess.

                    My CS are doing a little better as he really did a lot to help me yesterday. I could have never done it by myself, so my health is a big problem. Pain is a problem. I’ve never smoked anything illegal, but now I understand why other’s do. I did vote for it in Fl. It’s better than pain pills which are not good for you. I unfortunately am going to run out before they can be filled. I can hardly sit nor walk very well. I am so sick of this and it’s all caused by Osteoarthritis and also damage to the lower 4 disk from 8 slip & falls. My disk who are basically fused together from a combination of everything.

                    I was a 35 yr. tennis player, runner, walked, did the gym, so this is very discouraging for me as this pain affects my whole life. Sure I know there are people who are so much worse off than me, I feel bad for them.

                    I’m just worn out, physically and mentally from the pain and the marriage. Yes, we are doing better, but I still don’t feel the love yet for him, gratitude yes for his help, but I am so far away for letting go of the hurt and pain of what he has done and not done in my 53 yr. marriage. I feel so mixed up by it. I made a decision twice in my life to put everything in the past and just move forward. Once with my daughter and the other with my CS 5 yrs. after the affair. I just can’t seem to do it now and I don’t know why? There is so much to do and my daughter-in-law is going to help me. She believes in everything natural, food, massages she’s going to do for my back, etc. So, I know she’s going to help me, cook, etc.

                    Thank you so much for asking, just hurting so much and depressed that I can’t do the normal things of life. Would love to play tennis again, my love for 35 yrs. It’s just hard to do anything.

                    I hope you are still on a positive note and doing well. Let me know, okay? You still have the time to make the decisions that will determine your future and I hope you make the one that will make your life the happiest it can be.

                    Blessings friend, Maxine6

              • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 5:45 pm #

                SR,
                This is what I wish my x CS would’ve done to me, walked up to me, looked me in the eye, told me that she loved me BUT if I didn’t change how I was treating her, she was leaving me FOREVER!!!!
                Would that have saved our relationship/marriage? We will NEVER know, it never happened. She went outside of our relationship/marriage to get what I wasn’t giving her. Once she got what she was looking for from her MM AP, she wanted NOTHING to do with me again.
                I wish I would’ve been given that chance to swallow my pride, work to change who I was, work towards treating/loving her how she wanted to be treated/loved, NOT how I thought I should treat/love her!!!!
                Not trying to defend your CS but I bet it is hard for him to know what to write to you on a card? He FUCKED UP!!!! Hard to acknowledge, accept & tell Anyone what a FUCKUP/FAILURE he was! HELL I FUCKED UP/FAILED TOO!!!! I was so angry @ myself, my CS, her MM AP, Life & the World for a long, long, long time.
                Was his skank special? Couldn’t have been more special than you SR or he would’ve been gone out of you & your kid’s life for good long ago!!!!
                “You never know what’s around the corner. It could be everything. Or it could be nothing. You keep putting one foot in front of the other, and then one day you look back and you’ve climbed a mountain.”
                ― Tom Hiddleston
                Peace to All.

                • Strengthrequired May 21, 2015 at 5:12 am #

                  Betrayed, Thankyou for your kind words. I wish my husband would have said something to me, instead of falling in the arms of the ow, but he didn’t. He liked the idea of blaming me for his woes, I guess easier for him to justify his actions to himself. I kept telling my husband I wanted to spend more time with him, before the affair, yet he just kept doing his own thing. He didn’t want to listen, it didn’t matter if I painted myself blue, and did a faith dance, he wouldn’t have noticed.
                  He has always liked the attention, being the centre of attention. She gave him plenty of attention, and he gave her it back just as much.
                  Your wife, she should have spoken up too, yet she didn’t, just like my husband, she didn’t want to hear what you needed, just like my husband. One thing we didn’t do though betrayed, was we stayed faithful to them, they were the ones that sought to have their egos stroked elsewhere, they decided to place their attention onto someone else out side of their marriage, family. They did that not us.
                  we all have faults, no one is perfect, but let me tell you this. Your wife is a fool, you are a good man, yet I know there is someone out there that will cherish you the way you deserve. When you least expect it.

            • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 11:37 am #

              betrayedchump,

              I’m still reading your advice, in fact I’m going to copy and print it, as it will be easier. I’m not ignoring anything you have said. Just read what I have said about loving the person you are married to. You can volunteer constantly, which yes does make you feel like you have come outside of your problems to help others. These things are all great.

              But how does those things make you love the person who stabbed you in the back and broke your heart? Then what does it say about that person who after the affair didn’t show remorse and emotional support in the beginning and was basically more defensive and of course lied about everything?

              Even during the course of the next 25 yrs. he still didn’t try to make up to me for the betrayal, humiliation and pain that he caused me? What kind of man is this?

              Now, he says that he doesn’t even remember those days, it’s like a “blur.” Now he’s trying to become a better person, in some ways he has. The no drinking, control is better, but the emotional support and lack of seeing his faults when something happen’s between us is still lacking?

              Thanks Mr. PHD for all your professional advice and I mean that in the nicest way. It’s very true, you are very wise in your advice. The word love is what is missing for me. What if you can’t even say those words to your spouse, what does that tell you? If you can’t seem to let yourself be open to affection and the basic word is “OPEN.” To let yourself be open, you have to let yourself be vulnerable and that’s hard for me with my CS because he has hurt me so much for so many yrs. and still continues to do it even now, without realizing it?

              I am glad that you are so happy with your new life.

              Maxine6

              • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 6:25 pm #

                M6,
                I am only a perfectly imperfect human with many faults, quirks & sins! i have a long hard road to go yet to become a better human, man, father, grandfather, friend, partner/lover/friend! I do NOT have an AS, MS, MBA, BS, MD, MA or PHD degree in any field of study except for the life I have lived so far. I do NOT know what is best for you, your CS, your life, your relationship/marriage @ all. Only you, your CS & GOD have the answers to that dilemma!!!!!
                Yes there are days, sometimes hours & sometimes minutes that I am HAPPY with/for my NEW LIFE but there are days, sometimes hours & sometimes minutes that DOUBT/FEAR tries to rule what my NEW LIFE IS!!!!
                “If you fell down yesterday, stand up today.”
                ― H.G. Wells
                Peace to All.

                • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 7:26 pm #

                  betrayedchump,

                  No none of us have answer’s to how our life is going to turn out, like you said, only God knows.

                  None of us are perfect, all we can do is try and be the best we can be and try not to hurt other’s. I think you fit that bill pretty darn good. I think your CS lost a gem when she divorced you. As I read what you think you should have done to be a better husband, there is never an excuse for cheating. She should have come to you and told you what you were not doing. Communication is the key. Not look for someone else. It’s like I told my CS, if your going to cheat, have the decency to get out of the marriage first. He knew how I felt about affairs. I presume your wife knew also. I’m sure that you would have listened to her and make those changes, rather than go through the life and decisions you had to make due to these problems.

                  Yes, I know that you don’t have answer’s to my life, but you sure have tried to help and I have listened. You have been extremely helpful and I appreciate it. Will I present my side, yes I will as we all have our own opinions on things and that’s okay. It’s our life to decide what to do, but it’s nice for other’s to throw out things to think about and I thank you for that.

                  You are a sensitive person and you probably learned that from all that you have been through and wish that you had done differently. We all can say that one.

                  Yes, your human and I’m sure you have your up’s and down’s. But at least you are free now to make your own choice as to what you want to do with your life and that’s a bonus.

                  I don’t think it will be much longer before I make a decision one way or the other, as this is no way to live.

                  I’m still standing.

                  M6

  31. Strengthrequired May 19, 2015 at 12:08 am #

    Maxine it does make sense, you spend your life with someone, you want to come home and feel loved and wanted, you want to feel needed and special, an important part in that persons world.
    I completely get it.

    • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 7:30 pm #

      Strengthrequired,

      I agree, it is important to be happy to come home or be home, in my case to someone who values, respects and loves me more than he loves himself. That’s what a marriage is all about. Love is putting the other person before yourself, that’s right in the marriage vows. You have to have love if your married or it isn’t a marriage and who wants to come home to a unhappy home.

      Best of luck and happiness to you and your decisions.

      M6

  32. TrustingGod May 19, 2015 at 12:11 am #

    Maxine6,

    You’re exactly right in that you’re supposed to get that special love and support at home, from your spouse. If you have to get it from others, what is the point of being married? For some men, to have a cheap servant? For some women, a stable source of income? Someone who’s obligated to take care of you if you’re sick or in an accident?

    I see you also feel that you are settling for crumbs. I have felt that way for so many years now, but it has done no good to tell my husband how I feel. For the first time I look at my husband and wonder how I’m supposed to live with someone so selfish and lacking in compassion for me. I don’t understand either why I should be expected to give my love and life to someone who makes me feel like everyone on the planet is more important and more deserving of love and attention than me, the type of person who goes to visit his uncle and aunt during what little free time he has on the weekend because they ask why he hasn’t visited for a while, but will not make any time to be alone with me. I just want to leave and raise the rest of my sons alone if he’s not going to change. I pray your husband sees the light and learns to apologize and appreciate all you’ve done for him, before it’s too late, but it seems like you feel the same as me–that your husband’s inability to show you loving behavior is just choking the life out of you. Time to get free, at least for a while, to think and remember who you really are? I pray God lets you feel what is right to do in your situation just as I pray the same for myself.

    By the way, are you intentionally changing betrayed chump to champ? Because that’s a pretty good idea. We have been betrayed, but that doesn’t make us chumps. We are supposed to be champions, at least in learning how to love ourselves again.

    • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 1:48 am #

      Hi TrustingGod,
      Heaven’s No, I just was typing with one finger on the iPad which I never use when I’m doing a longer message, so I made a mistake in the spelling of his name. (-: He could fit that title though. He’s extremely insightful, wish my spouse was like that. Never has and never will be.

      I feel like you, I fell in love with who I thought was such a wonderful, gentle person at 16 and married him at 18. Love is so special to me, sex is so personal and is a gift to give someone. That’s why we waited 2 yrs. till we got married to have sex. Did we fool around, yes but he never touched any part of me sexually till after a year and he asked first. Yet he only knew her for 8 months before he climbed in bed with her and touched the tops of her breast. I just don’t understand and never will how he could have done that so soon. Yet me waited 2 yrs. to get in bed together. He says that it has to do with age? He says he was older when he met her, 40, so I guess that’s suppose to make a difference? Heck I would have thought a young man of 18 would have wanted sex even sooner and it would have been harder to wait?

      I totally understand how you feel about not being the center of your husbands life. I haven’t been the center of mine for to many years to remember. At conferences, parties, anything where there were people, he never spent time with me. He was always socializing with everyone else, asking the single woman to dance, since they didn’t have an escort at our conference. Yet, he would be talking in the cocktail lounge and if there was a song that I remembered we used to dance to, I would have to ask him to dance. No real special jewelry on our anniversary, just the flower’s which most of the time he would always get at a grocery store. Now this is a man who could have afforded a $400 ring, or bracelet. His reason was he never knew what I liked, yet when we were at the mall I would try to show him jewelry and he never paid attention. No extra loving things said during special occasions, yet he wrote her one of the most moving love letter’s on a birthday card that you can imagine. I don’t recall him writing me those kind of love letters even when he was in the service.

      I think after the initial honeymoon phase of a few yrs. then they just look at you as a wife, companion, sex partner, babysitter, housewife, gardner, etc. My husband and I never had a date night, but back then, no one ever mentioned it. You just seem to go out on special occasions.

      Yet, I remember making love and feeling love. But it still came back to if there were other’s around, I always took back seat. I wasn’t complimented in front of his piers, they did, he didn’t. Yet, I built him up all the time.

      He could have taken me out for a drink and dancing, just like he did with her almost every week in the beginning. I don’t know how long that lasted, but I would guess it was pretty often as he wouldn’t have fallen in love with her so quickly. Yet, I was always available for him and willing.

      Sadly, you have children that are still living with you and that makes your decision a lot harder. It doesn’t sound like he is putting you first at all. Those weekends should be for the two of you.

      We had an argument just tonight and it all had to do with him putting himself ahead of me again. Small things, but it shows that he hasn’t changed on being selfish. Like running the water, when I am trying to listen to the end of a show and he won’t wait for 5 minutes. Or, I asked for the iPad that he wasn’t using at the time to check my messages on this site, but now he had to do something on it first. I told him, but John, I asked you for it. I won’t be but a moment. Then when I finally got it and he wanted us to go to bed after the hockey game, he kept bugging me and saying, “I thought you were coming now.” That happened about 4 times as I was trying to type on the iPad. So now I’m wide awake as I get upset over these small things and he can’t understand that what he is doing is selfish and insensitive. So we are in the same boat, except that I am 71, my health isn’t the best. I will have to sell our beautiful home that we worked all our life to get, after me coming from a poor family with 6 children and welfare sometimes.

      We started out with $90 and now there are no money worries, yet my life feels screwed because he changed so much over the years, doesn’t get it and had an affair, never thought of the word, disrespecting me, so many things that wander through my mind and then I can’t sleep.

      So, I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life. One day I’m better, tonight wasn’t good and believe me, like you I get irritated. I just moved back in the room with him, still not comfortable and there is no holding, kissing, etc. and hasn’t been, at least anything erotic for months. You have to feel that love, be able to say, “I love You” before you want to make love and I haven’t said those words in over 5 yrs. I just can’t!

      So where does that leave both of us, I don’t have any idea. I’ve gotten some of the best advise from betrayed chump and I am going to try and do some of the things he has taken the time to tell me what to do. I just hope I don’t let her down.

      I will pray for you also, I think we both need it at this point, as only He knows what is going to happen to us.

      Blessings.

    • Maxine6 May 19, 2015 at 1:51 am #

      TrustingGod,
      I forgot to mention that my husband wants to show me affection and make love, but as long as he continues his currant behavior, I just can’t bring myself to do it. We are both missing out on so much because he has made some changes, like control and drinking, but the emotional part he isn’t getting.

      Take care.

  33. Rachel May 19, 2015 at 12:28 pm #

    I will be divorced in September 2 years.
    I do have to say that I miss the “family” but then I think of what it would be like.
    The nagging, comments about what I wasn’t doing right, the money situation etc.
    In reality I don’t miss it. I have my two boys and we are family. I enjoy the freedom of doing what I want. This is my house and I don’t have to here the ex remind me that it’s his.
    Marriage is “ours” not mine.
    Each item in my house belonged to someone. It shouldn’t have been like that. I stayed home and raised our children without pay.
    When I did ask for money, I had to report to the ex where every penny went.
    Not worth my time, I saved Christmas and birthday money and used that instead.
    I do have to say I breathe and rest easier without that cheating lying piece of scum in my life.

    • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 6:41 pm #

      Rachel,
      Good for you, I & everyone on this site is happy for you that you have been able to find peace, happiness & freedom without your CS!!!! I don’t miss the daily test that I felt I had to pass each & everyday of whether I was better than her MM AP???? In the end, Our house was her house NOT Ours, the furniture was her’s NOT Ours, everything in the house was her’s NOT Ours. Hell even my Grandmother’s, my Mother’s, my Family’s things were her’s NOT mine???? Just proved that she loved things more than me, she failed that test for damn sure!!!!!
      “When things go wrong, don’t go with them.”
      ― Elvis Presley
      Peace to All.

  34. TrustingGod May 19, 2015 at 2:50 pm #

    Rachel,

    I’m starting to see a pattern with some cheating spouses from your post. If someone is controlling and doesn’t appreciate your contribution, actually sees everything that was bought as theirs and not yours, also, then how can you expect them to be faithful to you? If you aren’t a partner in everything, you aren’t even worthy of respect, so why would your spouse honor a marriage vow to you?

    It’s something I hadn’t given much thought to until recently. I had been working for eight years, and prior to that in school receiving financial aid. And while my husband allowed me to control the finances, he was often angry because there wasn’t money to do what he wanted to do or buy. We even got into significant credit card debt to pay for a number of things we didn’t have money for. He got a part-time job to pay for things I didn’t agree that we needed, like a big screen TV. It was his money, and not for our family. He wanted to do what he wanted without having to consider us. That was why I controlled the finances–I had been married before to someone who left me destitute and who didn’t pay the bills or rent on time and ruined my credit. I therefore didn’t trust my current husband once we were married, because I knew we had to be on a budget and I noticed he didn’t plan ahead very well. But I realized later he felt controlled and he wanted to be in charge–which I never did, though I tried to show him how many bills we had and why we didn’t have money to just throw a party whenever he wanted to. But the problem wasn’t that he wanted to help share responsibility, he just didn’t me to control him. And I didn’t want to have terrible credit and end up without food because of his lack of planning.

    Anyway, back to my original point. I felt very insecure after my first marriage, and my current husband didn’t do much to make me feel more secure, because he definitely saw everything as ours, and therefore his, to lend or give away without consulting me. He would joke, “what’s yours is mine, and what’s mine is mine.” He wouldn’t understand why I would be upset, and acted like it was because I was selfish, and would argue that I didn’t need it, or that the people he lent something of mine to would give it back soon, because they were trustworthy (which they often weren’t). He still doesn’t understand that I feel like nothing is mine and nothing is safe. I have had to make a big deal out of too many things because he will still be too free with anything he doesn’t want and thinks I don’t need or use enough. If I want to be generous and give something I know I can’t use and would be a blessing to others, though, he’s not so enthusiastic–if it’s not given to who he thinks it should go to. I feel that this is because he’s the kind of person who has to look like a generous hero to other people, and if I do it he gets no glory. So even apparent control of money on my part is just trying to keep my family safe from his selfishness and need to please everyone in the world but me.

    And now that I don’t have a job, and get angry that he rents cars for other people in his name, since holds get put on our account that don’t necessarily get taken off when I need to buy something, even if the other person paid in cash when they turned the car back in. I’m told now that I can wait a few days, and asked why I care anyway, since it’s not the money I earned. So, now I get to see that my contribution to our family is zero. I’m just a selfish, greedy person who doesn’t want to help other people and complains over everything, apparently.

    So now I was reminded of how my husband doesn’t see me as a valuable partner and doesn’t really think I have a right to anything if he doesn’t think I do. That tells me has no respect for me, and you can’t love someone you don’t respect, and you won’t be faithful to them.

    So why am I even trying to save a marriage to someone I have never really trusted and who doesn’t respect or love me? Am I just that pathetic, or am I afraid of being alone, or what will happen to my kids?

    • betrayedchump May 19, 2015 at 7:03 pm #

      “The only guarantee for failure is to stop trying”
      ― John C. Maxwell
      Peace to All.

      • Maxine6 May 22, 2015 at 12:52 am #

        betrayedchump.

        A very good statement. I’m getting ready for bed, but wanted to share some very happy news today. Our granddaughter, Jessica Simpson (really, that’s her name) was accepted into Wake Forest Medical School to become a doctor. She was #1 on the waiting list and out of 9000 applicants they only chose 120 and she was one of them. She had good grades, other’s had better. She was chosen for her love of what she was studying to be, determination, personality and they all knew, that even though someone else had a little better grade, Jessica really wanted to become a doctor and it showed in everything she did in this one year of Med School to get her Masters in Biology. This was all while working many hours a week taking care of a cancer Mom, while also taking care of her 3 children. Pretty much running the household. She got paid to do this, which helped pay the rent and then would come home and study. She got excellent grades the last semester, straight A’s and A’s and B’s the semester before that. She is such a special girl, caring, loving, determined and never gives up on anything.

        She determined very young in life that she wanted to become a doctor when she started singing with me at the Retirement and Assisted Living Homes starting at the age of 5 and continued until she was about 14.

        So, I wanted to share something happy with everyone for a change.

        We couldn’t be happier for her, she has really earned it.

        Blessings,
        Maxine6

  35. Rachel May 19, 2015 at 5:41 pm #

    Trusting God ,
    I too was afraid of being alone. But in reality I have been alone for a number of years.
    My ex had no respect for me at all. His words were sick and his actions even worse.
    It’s amazing the strength that appears. Not easy but you have more strength than you know.
    My kids see their father. He is their Money tree so they must stay cordial as the know he is the six figure man and I am not.
    We don’t discuss him and if they have a function to go to the tell me that they have to go to the other side. No questions asked. It’s just better for all of us.
    Three months After my divorce I was blessed to have met a wonderful kind man. His wife left him with two daughters for that green grass.
    He is so respectful towards me. No filthy sexual comments about me or what other women do. And never any flirting towards others. I use to beg my ex to please stop yet he never would.
    I feel God saw that I was fighting an endless fight and moved me out of that life.

  36. forcryin'outloud May 22, 2015 at 11:26 pm #

    I just watched a TED talk by Esther Perel that many of you if not everyone will find helpful. She hits the nail squarely on the head about infidelity. Link below:

    https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_rethinking_infidelity_a_talk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

  37. Amy July 21, 2015 at 1:15 am #

    Dear Maxine6

    I feel your pain but the truth is you are punshing yourself by giving your husband and his infidelity which happened 20 yrs ago so much importance. He is not the only one in your life! Please see there are so many people in your family and even on this forum who care for you. How ur husband behaves with you is not in your control but how you behave towards yourself is in your control. Please take care of yoursrlf and forgive yourself for the decision you took so many years back!

    If your husband doesn’t care about you the way you expect , so be it. He had an affair. Reality. He slept with her. Reality. You stayed in the marriage. Reality. It was his choice to cheat. It was your choice to stay. Now nothing can be changed so why whine over it. The choice you have now is to lead a normal happy life, which only you control.

    Everybody does not get true love. Does not get appreciation from there partners. Some get cheated. We all on this forum have experienced cheating.

    Please do not worry yourself for details or ‘what ifs’. Lot of time has passed and thinking qbout it does not change a thing. Cheating is an ultimate betrayel and it hurts like hell. Period. I guess its high time you move on from this pain. You owe it to yourself.

    Please take care of health instead of what your husband does or does not. Believe me you will be much at peace. Also accept things did not turn out the way you wanted but what the hell it rarely does in anyones life. So be grateful for what you still have and look forward to a new day. I know with much practice your negative thoughts will become less and less and you will feel better.

    Maxine, only you can help yourself out of this. Please sorround yourself with positive people , things you like to do, take care of your health. Get busy.
    U deserve happiness and its waiting for you. Please extend your hand towards it. Dont block it because of the past.

    Happiness is a choice.

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