Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #17

microphoneAnother month has come and gone.  Looks like Old Man Winter is on his way out and Spring is trying to take over. 

So it must be that time again to talk about whatever you want to talk about!

This is Open Mic #17 and we know there must be some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about, share your experiences  – or maybe just do a little venting.

Anyways, the floor is all yours!  

Feel free to discuss…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small.
  • Got a question? Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?
  • Spring break is coming up…Any vacations planned?
  • It’s March Madness.  What college basketball team is going to win it all?

Please don’t be shy. If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

 

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83 Responses to Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #17

  1. Doug March 17, 2015 at 10:13 am #

    I’ll get things started…The other day I ran into a friend of mine from back in the days when our sons played high school baseball together 6 years ago. He was always such a nice guy. He looked very tired and had obviously lost a lot of weight. I asked how he was doing, and the next thing I know I’m in a half-hour long conversation about how his wife left him for another man. He is distraught and just terribly heart broken as is to be expected.

    His wife is a rather attractive woman and though I didn’t know her very well, she always rubbed me the wrong way. She had this air about her that she thought she was better than everyone else and was always willing to spout her views on religion and how religious she was. She would often miss ball games because she had some church function to attend to.

    According to my friend, he said that they met at church and the OM is 63 – I’m guessing he’s about 15 years older than her.

    This is about the third instance in the last few months that I’m aware of where people we know here locally, and who were always quite outspoken about their religious views, got entangled in extra marital affairs. Seems a bit hypocritical don’t you think?

    Oh well, just thought I’d share that.

    • Shifting Impressions March 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm #

      Doug,
      Here is a topic I know a little bit about…..and wish I didn’t. What most people don’t realize is that there is just as much infidelity, spousal abuse, child abuse etc. in the Christian Community as there is in the greater community at large. You wouldn’t think that would you. But the danger I see, having been raised in the Christian Community my whole life, is this, that just like most people we expect better of those with a religious faith.

      The problem with that is, we are so trusting of our spouses. Because after all, they wouldn’t go against the teachings and moral code of the church, or would they. I say all that to say this…….I didn’t even think it was a possibility that my H would have an EA. After all it was against everything he stood for. Having an emotional affair does break several of the ten commandments….doesn’t it.

      I was emotionally unprepared for the EA……It was beyond understanding that he could lie to me that way.

      • Doug March 19, 2015 at 9:01 am #

        SI, I certainly don’t doubt what you’re saying, and yes, we do expect more from those with religious faith – especially those who are always preaching their beliefs to you.

        My next door neighbor’s step-father is a retired ex-minister who was asked to resign several years ago from a church he was serving due to an “inappropriate” relationship with a female member of the congregation. My neighbor doesn’t know that I know this, and I’ve wondered if that female member of the congregation was his mother!

      • Christina March 31, 2015 at 12:31 pm #

        Shifting Impressions,
        I completely agree with you!! The very first thing I thought after my christian husband told me about his affair was, “How could a christian do something like this?” Then I realized that we are ALL susceptible to this. I too NEVER expected it, and Im still trying to sort through it all after four months.

  2. 4life March 17, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    Yes very hypocritical. The one thing I can say about my CS husband is that he stopped going to church before his affair began and refused to go while it was happening. After it was over it took him about 6 months before he felt he could attend church without being a hypocrite.

  3. Scott March 17, 2015 at 10:40 am #

    Go Gonzaga!!!!

    • Doug March 17, 2015 at 11:01 am #

      I think they have a good chance this year to get to the final 4.

      • Scott March 17, 2015 at 12:54 pm #

        Their whole bracket is played in Seattle and Spokane. Talk about home court advantage. Would be fun to see them win it all.

  4. Joe March 17, 2015 at 11:19 am #

    Go Irish 🙂

    • Scott March 17, 2015 at 12:55 pm #

      Mike Bray is a heck of a coach. Hope they go far. Good looking team this year…

      • Blue March 17, 2015 at 11:11 pm #

        I was just wondering.. who is Scott and who is Joe? I don’t think I’ve seen these lads post here before. I take it, Scott is here because sports is an emotional affair journey? and Joe is Irish. Just saying because guys are the minority on here and I was wondering what their stories are? Been cheated on or cheated, or neither and just saying ‘hi’ ?

        • Joey March 18, 2015 at 10:47 am #

          Hello Blue – it is nice of you to ask. Yes – that is the first time I posted on this site – sorry it had to do with sports, but March Madness is my favorite time of year 🙂

          As for my story and background, I have been visiting this site for some time now and it has been a huge help for me – I have not really had the courage I guess to post my story, but have participated in the private mentor program that Doug and Linda provide. I am the betrayed – D-Day about a year and half ago – and have suffered through false reconciliations, broken no contact, and much more. My fiancé unfortunately cheated on me with her married boss for over a year – before and after we got engaged. After I discovered that the affair never ended – DDAY 2, DDAY 3 – I finally put my foot down and told her to leave, much to my fiancé’s dismay – she was the classic cake eater. The wife of AP kicked him out too so they started to live together, had “promise” rings, and were set to live a life together. But that didn’t last very long – he went back to his wife and they are together again, making it work. I have the unfortunate blessing of living very close to him in the city so see them on occasion.

          My ex fiancé continues to put blame on me for all of this, and for some time I believed her and did my very best to improve and be a better partner. But I have come to realize that, although I was not a perfect partner, I did my very best to love her – it just wasn’t enough in her eyes. We are no longer together – I am sad I was not as strong as so many of the people on this site are, but I just don’t think my ex will truly ever get it.

          If you have anymore questions or I didn’t explain well why I am here, just ask 🙂

          • gizfield March 18, 2015 at 12:48 pm #

            Hi, Joey. Are you the person that Doug posted their story? Just curious.I didn’t think the fiance seemed like a good risk in that case. Serial cheaters never change.

            • Joey March 18, 2015 at 1:37 pm #

              HI Gizfield – unfortunately yes, that was my story 🙁 – she got me good – hook, line, and sinker. Looking back on everything I have been through, it is crazy how good of a liar she is. I honestly don’t know her anymore and who she has become.

              We were high school sweethearts – together for almost 14 years. That is why I wasn’t so quick to give up. I think many people were surprised because we were not married yet – it would have been easier to bail. But we have a history that relates to many people in a marriage – great memories, good times and bad, family deaths, miscarriages, job promotions, etc etc. We had a history that I thought was something special, but I think we had a different perspective – or at least her perspective changed.

              I think I was so hopeful because I knew the girl she was for the majority of our relationship and I was holding on to that hope that she would find that person again and remember the many great years we had together.

              I look back at that post and at first feel embarrassed for being naïve, but then I think, damn – I have nothing to be embarrassed about. I am proud that I did everything I could to restore the relationship – I didn’t give up (although I guess I did bc I finally said enough is enough). No one is perfect- I certainly am not and this experience has been a huge eye opener, and I feel that I have become a stronger person.

              Thanks for asking Gizfield – people on this site are pretty awesome and many of your comments have helped a lot!!

              • gizfield March 18, 2015 at 2:07 pm #

                Joey, thank you for your answer. I don’t think you are naive, or anything like that. I, too, had a pathological liar for a high school sweetheart, so I can relate unfortunately. It’s great that we have been of help to you with our experiences and comments. It really does help I think.

                I don’t know what makes people the way they are but sometimes they take a wrong turn, and there’s nothing you can do but get away from them. You seem like a genuinely nice person and I hope that you find a deserving person to build a future with.

              • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:08 pm #

                I sometimes feel like a fool Joey, thinking my husband can and will get over his affair and redirect his emotions to our marriage. We have a 30 yr marriage and we too have history w/ many people through our marriage and those relationships would be hard to give up. We have a son who will soon be a dad and I think of how different things would be for us with all that joy and us not trying to get back on track. I pray everyday that this does not end in divorce if he is not able to stay focused on US and only US. I am sorry it ended for you. I sometimes feel enough is enough too and then I see a glimmer of hope and know he loves me, but obviously got lost some where at the 20 and 1/2 yr mark. I hope you find happiness.

          • TryingHard March 18, 2015 at 2:09 pm #

            Au Contraire Joey!!!! You are incredibly strong to leave and stand your ground!! I admire and respect you for it. I know it had to be hard but some folks are just NOT remorseful, find it hard to humble themselves, accept responsibility, find integrity, quit lying, etc.

            You did the right thing AND I have news for you. A man like you with good values and ethics and integrity and will not be a doormat is not going to be single for long. You will find a great girl. Just BE CHOOSY!

            • Blue March 18, 2015 at 10:23 pm #

              Joey, thanks for replying. It proves it’s not all guys who cheat, women are almost at the same percentage. I agree with Gizfeld and Tryinghard. You are brave and a real man to have tried to work on your relationship. I hope you find a woman who deserves your wonderful qualities such as this. Just remember not to put that ex on a pedestal, you’ve proved you’re so much better than her and don’t forget that. Cheating someone without remorse is lower than the bottom of the barrel. It’s mean spirited. Good Luck to YOU!

        • Scott March 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm #

          Betrayed spouse, d-day 2 years and 5 months ago, divorce 18 months ago – which ended 16 years of marriage – she cheated with a kid her daughters age, barely legal. I’m pretty well healed, but once in a while I come to this and another site and read through things. Almost 100% NC with my ex, which is nice. Older kids, so I don’t have a lot of coordination. Thank God.

          I couldn’t resist getting a plug in for my college team, the Zags. I’m an alum, so I want to see them go far.

          • Blue March 18, 2015 at 10:32 pm #

            Scott, your ex sounds like a walking, talking std.

            Go Zags! (even though I’m Canadian and have no vested interest other than hoping the Zags winning will put a smile on your face-not that we can see it- just…Good Luck to what makes you smile.

    • Doug March 17, 2015 at 2:42 pm #

      I think they’re peaking at just the right time. They could go far.

  5. gizfield March 17, 2015 at 11:56 am #

    Religious Cheaters are their own special breed. I have a family full of them. Even my own mother.

    My mother let me be adopted when I was a year old, and I didn’t grow up a around my birth family. I know my aunt (married to my mother’s brother) had left him many years ago but didn’t know the details. Later, I find out she had married the preacher who performed her father in law’s (my grandfather’s) funeral. Eeew. How creepy. This all caused a big scandal. My cousins turned out bad ( one died of alcoholism, one due to drugs,) probably because of this.

    I first met my aunt’s husband/affair partner when he was preaching my cousin, the alcoholic’s, funeral. Do you know, he used the funeral to talk trash about my uncle. I had no idea who he was at the time. I’m thinking who is this man talking bad about my uncle at his own son’s funeral? I was just shocked.

    He and my aunt were just so sanctimonious. I didn’t go to the cheater husband’s funeral but I did go to my aunt’s. The church was literally empty. I heard she was a stone cold bitch, I guess it was true.

    • Blue March 17, 2015 at 11:27 pm #

      I hear ya’ Gizfeld! The OW in my case went to Christian schools and is ‘church going’. (My CH is atheist) When I asked the OW in an email how hypocritical it was calling herself a Christian, she blasted back ‘We’re all sinners’ She doesn’t know me, so she doesn’t know my sins, but she was quick to point the finger away from her like a cowardly little weasel to deflect any criticism. (she was screwing her boss who was also married with children) It was so far beyond her to just give me ‘I’m sorry, I am a hypocrite, but I want to change’ To say this would be the Christian thing to do.

      You can call yourself ‘Christian’ and it really means nothing. I can call myself Queen of England- it doesn’t mean I am, It just means I’m deluded.

      • Tryinghard March 18, 2015 at 8:02 pm #

        Blue
        You’re more likely to indeed be the Queen of England than she a Christian !! She’s the deluded one!

  6. gizfield March 17, 2015 at 12:19 pm #

    The reason I know my aunt met her affair/partner at my grandfather’s funeral is because my cheater half brother told me, lol. He is the one who left his wife as soon as their second child started college in September, and he was engaged by October. He wrote on his Facebook page on his latest anniversary that the now wife had been “his friend for 15 years, and his lover for eight years.”

    Anyway, at my aunt’s funeral, brother said “this church is where aunt met cheater husband. He was preaching her father in law’s funeral. Isn’t that ROMANTIC?”. I was horrified that anyone would call that romantic. Sick and twisted is more like it. Who meets their affair partner at their father in law’s funeral???

  7. Scott March 17, 2015 at 1:03 pm #

    I need a Ven Diagram to keep this straight. So your aunt, who you never really knew, cheated with the preacher who performed her husbands dad’s funeral, then they hooked up, and then when someone else died he was a shmuck? Long and short, when she died the church was empty. Good. Those were the seeds she sewed up for herself.

  8. TryingHard March 18, 2015 at 2:15 pm #

    “Do any of your other family members suffer from insanity. No they all seem to enjoy it.” LOL a post I saw on FB today and totally explains this story.

    LOL had a guy in the office come to me yesterday offering me piece of paper. I asked if those were the “basketball braces” for the Fantastic Four. Yeah, I’m a real sports nut, but super happy to see the boys posting!!

    Go Cards!!!

  9. TryingHard March 18, 2015 at 2:23 pm #

    I forgot to say. The “Jesus Cheaters” IMHO are the worst. They justify their infidelity because after all God is in control of everything. So their cheating is just part of God’s plan. I think these people will have a very rude awakening when they go to meet their maker.

    If that’s what Christianity is, well that’s no better than those who are expecting 70 virgins at the pearly gates for committing an act of terrorism. And I have even less regard for those “Christians” than those who believe the latter.

    And for the record, yes I would “cast the first stone” because if you’re going to blame God for the fact that you’re a cheating asshole well you would deserve my stone!!!

    • betrayedchump March 20, 2015 at 1:56 pm #

      TH,
      God gave my x a sign that he wanted her to divorce me after she had her EA? WTF???? God never gave her a sign that her EA was wrong????
      Peace to All!

      • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:59 pm #

        WTF was God thinking?????

      • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 2:42 pm #

        BetrayedChump
        GOD gave her a sign?? Wow she must be a really special little person that GOD took time out of his very busy schedule of dealing with things like, storms, starvation, disease, genocide, terrorism to let her know it was ok to go ahead and break those pesky rules he sent down to Moses so many years ago!! That didn’t count for her. It was for other people. Lowly minions like you and me 🙂

        I’m sure you being a hard working, regular law abiding human, whom I’m pretty sure have NEVER gotten any sign from GOD, was never good enough for her!!! After all ,just like Joan of Arc, SHE the special one gets Signs from God!!!

        One question. How did you not laugh in her face??? How do you keep from laughing in her face every time you see her???

        • betrayedchump March 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm #

          TH,
          Well the punchline to the joke is “I was replaced by a deer”? WTF????Her sign from God was seeing a deer when she was out walking & talking with God???? I just shooked my head, told her I was happy for her that she received a sign from God & told her that I was still looking for a sign from God on how he/we could save our relationship/marriage. She told me that she was asking God whether or not to divorce & if he wanted her to divorce to let her see a deer. I told her maybe Satan heard her & he sent the deer? No answer back from her on that question? Then she says, yeah I know I should’ve asked to see a camel? I was thinking to myself @ the time, maybe a grizzly bear, lion or a tiger? Now that would’ve been a REAL sign from God, especially after she was still alive, right out of a Bible story, YOU THINK!!!! I told her she was asking God the wrong question, she should be asking God what I was asking God. Help me save this relationship/marriage!!!! It was a ridiculous justification as time goes by but @ the time it really, really hurt but that’s what it was all about in the end, HURT HEAPED UPON HURT by both of us!!!! Now whenever I see a deer I wonder if someone else just received a sign that it is OK to divorce? Does it count if the deer is mounted on a wall?
          Peace to All!

          • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 4:58 pm #

            OK that made me laugh. And I’m sure I could regale you with the stupid things my H said to me during that time. Like “you should sit down and talk to her. I think you’d really like her” etc, etc, etc

            I have a mounted deer head in my basement. I don’t think I will ever look at it the same again!!

            WTF is right! Peace to All is right!

    • theresa March 27, 2015 at 2:25 pm #

      Maybe God told you to pick up the stone!

      • TryingHard March 27, 2015 at 3:21 pm #

        LOL I’d like to think so Theresa but you know what I’m not Joan of Arc and he really doesn’t send me messages! I’m sure God has his/her own way of handling this crap that has nothing to do with little old me 🙂

        • theresa March 27, 2015 at 3:30 pm #

          Isn’t it more like God to try to divert you from a poor choice?
          And isn’t it more likely that these people have only allowed certain messages to get through their filters?

          • TryingHard March 27, 2015 at 3:43 pm #

            I guess it’s a matter of spiritual faith and belief. But since you asked, no I don’t believe God tells you to do something good or bad. We are born with free will KNOWING right from wrong hopefully learned from childhood through good role models; parent, teachers, family, clergy etc. If God can bring good in your life he can bring bad in your life and well I just don’t believe that. Good and bad things happen, it’s called life. I don’t think your belief in God or non belief makes you any more susceptible to one or the other. Most people I know that have shit in their lives are the ones most deserving of the best and vice versa.

            And yes I do believe people use the bible and their religion to justify their very bad motives and choices. Christian and otherwise.

            So if I were to cast the first stone it’s because I’m human, with human experience, human opinions and beliefs nothing for which I could EVER assume to be so important that God would lead me to do it. He’s got way better humans to choose from.

  10. Creston March 19, 2015 at 1:43 pm #

    I am 5 yrs past first DDay this April – with 2nd DDay a few months later – and I have never posted but have gained so much I sight into EA’s from this site. My H nor I had ever heard of EA’s before but CH was definitely involved in one! No ‘I love yous’ exchanged and pretty sure never PA. Just 2 “friends” texting, calling and meeting for drinks. A little history … All 3 of us went to same high school – they were buddies, hubby and I dated off and on in HS, and all thru college. I despised ow in hs cause I knew what she was… Always center of attention, buddies with all the guys and a tease/flirt. No gal pals cause of this! H couldn’t see it but knew how I felt. Fast forward 20+ yrs and two divorces, two failed engagements for OW later and H and OW reconnect either via FB or class reunion. They continue “friendship” but H knows how I feel about OW and keeps it from me… I discover text to male with same inutials and put 2 & 2 together. It’s been a LONG road to recovery and seriously doubt I/we will ever be the same. What a shame! But I love my H and 30 yrs of marriage and 2 wonderful kids are enough to make me hang in there- and oh yeah, H ended up with prostate cancer after discovery. He’s been thru treatment and is cancer free but I think it was a wake up call for him. I still live with the fear they will start up again but now that I won’t live thru that betrayal again. It will be time to move on…

    • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 2:06 pm #

      Not funny about the prostate cancer, but funny I just read that. My husband had his annual physical the other day and is now being tested for colon cancer. It may not be anything to worry about, but I think he is worried and thinking about it a lot. Interesting how things like that happen to people after they have hurt someone so badly who was supposed to mean so much to them. I too still live with fear everyday. I often wonder if it is worth it, but with a 30 yr marriage and a grandchild on the way, I feel we have too much good coming out way NOT to give this marriage/relationship all the possibilities it deserves.

  11. TheFirstWife March 19, 2015 at 4:53 pm #

    Creston. Sorry you had tone dragged thru the swamps like the rest of us. I find it interesting how the cheating spouse usually comes running back to the marriage.

    My CH had an EA in 1997 and I confronted him how this girl really liked him in more than a platonic way. I had to live with his denials “that there is nothing going on”. With no proof I made sure he ended the “friendship” .

    Fast forward to 2012 to 2013. He has another EA though this one was also a PA (which is denied but I do not believe). He admitted to the current EA that he cheated on me back in 1997 with a girl he knew.

    Hard to say I am fully invested anymore. Some days I am and other days I’m not so sure. 2013 was so difficult. But my eyes are wide open. It is hard to live with someone you don’t trust or respect.

    Too bad these self centered jerks who cheat don’t think about the collateral damage they cause. But it should not surprise me as we go to church every week and are actively involved in our church and community.

    I hope God forgives them. That forgiveness stuff is sooo hard. I forgive but cannot forget.

  12. TryingHard March 19, 2015 at 5:37 pm #

    So I kind of wonder…. So just how do these cheaters walk into a church, and I don’t care what religion, without a totally embarrassed and guilty look on their face?? And they aren’t honest or forthcoming with their wives, so I guess they rationalize that they are honest with God?? And he’s/she’s really the only one that counts??

    So they really truly believe that God has forgiven them without taking ownership of their transgressions (at least Catholics make them confess first), or even ending their transgressions, continue to lie, cheat, steal resources and yet They.Go.To.Church!!

    I don’t get it and WHAT the hell are they getting out of going to church? I know when I was in Sunday School as a young girl the first thing we learned was the Golden Rule and that is in everyone’s religion. Then we learned the 10 Commandments, PRETTY EASY FREAKING CONCEPTS PEOPLE!!!, followed by the beatitudes, etc.

    Now please all you church goers out there tell me, what part of these pretty simple concepts did not stick with you or your cheaters?? And if those didn’t stick, what the hell is sticking now?? It takes A LOT more to being spiritual or Christian than just walking your ass in a church.

    Seriously,church going Jesus cheaters are the worst!!!

  13. Untold March 20, 2015 at 8:26 am #

    Get this. Niece is getting confirmed in the catholic church. My CW said she wondered why they chose my sister as sponsor instead of her. CW said she has been closer to my niece than my sister.

    My brothers and sisters know my 28-year marriage has been troubled for the last 3 years. Some marriage crises including a dday occurred at same time as my parents health crises and my father’s death a year ago. I’ve given no details other than wife reconnected with old friends including boyfriend on FB, we’re in counseling, and I can’t trust her with important plans/information/actions on my parents behalf..

    Duh! is it really a mystery why my blood relatives wouldn’t choose her as sponsor? Is she a role model for Christian principles? Truth? Honesty? Come on! How much in denial can they be? I said nothing in response to her. I felt like saying something but knew it would result in a meltdown. I just looked away.

    She might be a good sponsor some day, if she shows full remorse and repentance, and honesty. Hasn’t happened yet.

    • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 10:28 am #

      Untold
      That’s my point. Maybe you didn’t give your family the down and dirty details but it’s not very hard to put 2 and 2 together and come up with an answer.

      Also maybe your wife felt she was closer to the niece but obviously the mother of the niece wants a better representative for her daughter’s confirmation. Confirmations aren’t a game according to Catholics. It’s serious business. It’s not a popularity contest. I’m not catholic but I’ve come to understand this from my friends who are.

      Like I said in my above post. If you’re not getting and adhering to the basic tenets of Christianity or any other religion, what are you getting out of your religion, why are you wasting your time.

      My h installed his OW in his business where my son works. He had to work with her. He made a fool of not only me doing this but his own son!! And he just can’t quite understand why my son doesn’t respect him?? He never apologized to my son for having done that and really doesn’t get it. Shocking, I know. We DID have a conversation about it though. I explained gently that our son was mad at me for some of the things I did during that crazy exposure time and my h had left the home and left him and his brother to deal with their crushed mother (which BTW I’m pretty certain he doesn’t respect me any more for staying) so I’m pretty sure he still has a lot of resentment of having to work with his father’s OW.

      Thing is Untold, I’m not sure you’re doing her or yourself a favor by not saying GENTLY, ” ah sweetheart maybe my sister doesn’t see you as a Christian role model”. It’s my experience that cheaters have GOT to humble themselves. I really think her attitude is quite narcissistic and nervy!!

      • Untold March 20, 2015 at 1:36 pm #

        Right on TH. Not a popularity contest. Feel badly for you and your sons. At least the OM in my case is several hundred miles away and sons don’t know. I just don’t want to deal with the contempt and blame-shifting after reminding the wife of her moral lapse. Got an idea though. I’ll suggest she ask my nieces parents why she wasn’t selected. Might mean more coming from them! Haha.

  14. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 8:58 am #

    Everyday is a struggle for me. I try to keep a happy face on hoping it will show my CS that I am making it through this CRAP he has tossed into our 30 year marriage. He admits it was always a great marriage, but something in the OW turned him on and she kept the fires going in him. He did a repair job at her house and it went from there, hidden from me for over 18 months. Our marraige and life never skipped a beat. He was still the same man I had known since I met him in 1982. I was totally caught off guard when I discovered his affair. To make matters worse, he ended it and then every month after for the last 5 months, has reconnected with her through track phones and secret meetings. He was or is clearly addicted to what this woman (9 years older than him) is provided to him. I believe more than sexual, it was a deep emotional affair. I believe my marriage is worth every ounce of work we can put into it and he has indicated to me that he wants to save our marriage, but he believed he could remain friends with this person (the person who was pressuring him to leave me and at some point he was going to!!!!). I keep getting more details which hurt each time I get them from him. He finally put an end to the affair on 3/3/2015 via text message (after I told him, end it or I divorce you) telling her it was over, it was wrong, it was insensitive, poor judgement, and he apologized for involving her and he was moving on to save his marriage. He also told her he had no intentions of leaving me and ended with a NO CONTACT promise to her and asked that she NOT contact him. The next night…she and a friend showed up at our home to drop off all the gifts, cards etc that he had given her during the affiar–like 2 little school girls. She also yelled profanities out of the car window to him to which we showed no reaction. Apparently this 63 yr old woman did not understand what NO CONTACT meant and wanted to clearly get a rise out of me, him or both of us. I pray each day that he does not cave and contact her to see “how she is doing” but I did tell him, if he does make or accept contact that he is not to ever return to our home. It has only been 2 and 1/2 weeks since that text went. I cry each day on my way to work and home so he doesn’t see my sadness because everytime he did before, he would run to her. Affairs are like a drug—I want to be my husband’s drug. Praying to God he sees what he has and how wrong his affair really was and hoping we can get back to being just US and make it a better marriage than ever before.

    • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 10:29 am #

      Oh Bonnie. Stand your ground and keep your boundaries with him! Hell NO they cannot be friends EVER.

      • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:11 pm #

        No…she is not a friend. She is a wedge between us and it had to end. No more worrying about hurting someone’s feelings I told him. Feelings are hurt, lies have been told. Your relationship was built on lies, deceipt and betrayals and THAT was going to end good for her?????

  15. gizfield March 20, 2015 at 11:23 am #

    Bonnie, I always say There’s no whore like an OLD whore. That is one sick ass woman. I’m not ageist, but this OW and her friend need to grow the hell up sometime before they die.

    • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

      The night they came to the house….we had no idea she was in the car. Her friend tried to step into my home and I told her to get off my propery. As we were closing the door…the OW yelled out to my husband…”I hope you liked F ing me and I hope you like me sucking you” She teaches at our local high school. So classy!!!!

      • gizfield March 20, 2015 at 12:52 pm #

        Too bad you don’t have this on film. She really doesn’t need to be around teenage boys. From what you have said, I bet she behaves inappropriately around them as well. Ugh, disgusting.

        • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:55 pm #

          I am happy she was not a hot blonde with a smoking body. She looks a bit like Mimi from the Drew Carey show, wears a lot of blue eye shawdow and bright red lipstick, is about 5’4″ tall and dresses like Stevie Nicks!!!!

          • gizfield March 21, 2015 at 6:57 pm #

            Bonnie, probably one thing bothering you is that this affair partner is such a gigantic downgrade. What you need to realize is that ALL affair partners are downgrades, no matter what their other characteristics. Young, old, fat, skinny, it doesn’t matter.

            Try this exercise. Write a description of some people you know. Good ones, and bad ones. Pretend like it’s a personal ad even. Write everything Good about them. Then, add ” cheater and liar ” at the end. Not so appealing now, are they? There is no one who can pass this test, not even the president of the United States. Just think about Slick Willie Clinton…

        • gizfield March 20, 2015 at 12:59 pm #

          Teachers are held to a higher moral standard, as they should be in my opinion. I would let this whore know if she EVER entered my life in any way, it would be reported to the school officials. I would not want this slut around my child and I doubt anyone who knew would.

          • MF March 22, 2015 at 4:07 pm #

            You realize that they are everywhere, though, right? You know who she is in particular, but there is a chance that your child’s favorite teacher has also had an affair. That your pediatrician has had an affair. That your kind elderly neighbor had an affair. I mean, if there’s one thing we learn from these blogs, it’s just how common affairs really are.

            You are right to protect your children from this specific woman. But there is no way to protect them from all the OW and OM in the world–they are out there and there is just no way to tell who they are and what sort of influence they have on our kids

  16. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:30 pm #

    She was a widow who never really mourned her husband and when my helpful handyman husband showed up (I know her well), I can only imagine how she presented herself to him, but….he knew right from wrong and she knew he was married. She asked if he was happily married and he said yes (which we were). Then the pressure started…telling him she could make him happier than I could and that she would NEVER make him do anything he didn’t want to do. WHAT….like take out the trash, leave his muddy boots at the door???? etc. etc.
    I should have let him go so he could see how she’d be after a year of trying to be sweet to him. But…we are trying. Still trying to figure out the WHY of all of this. He just keeps saying it was nothing that I did or didn’t do, it was him. Yes, we know that…but WHAT was he missing from our marriage that led him to continue to get what he was getting from her???? HELP!!!!

    • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 12:40 pm #

      Bonnie
      It’s NOT what was missing from your marriage or you. It’s what is missing from HIS character.

      Marriages do not have a life of their own. Marriages begin and end and we are still living humans it is the marriage that is no longer. Marriages are legally contractual agreements. Don’t get caught up in this trap of “what was missing from the marriage”. It will make you crazy. You will try to put the blame on yourself so you feel you have control. You don’t, believe it. His affair had nothing to do with you and EVERYTHING to do with him. He made the choice not you.

  17. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:34 pm #

    She also cheated on her husband several times when he was alive. She told her friends she use to get lonely when he was away on the weekends working. Of course…she covered that up by telling my husband that her husband cheated on her. Really…that made it OK ???? I still believe there is goodness and genuine love for me in my husband and I will not leave my marriage until I know I have done everything I can to repair it and make it better.

  18. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:46 pm #

    Definately have to agree there…his character was weak, but….how does one strengthen their character so they are not led astray again by fantasies? Our counselor says we need to find out what he was missing or what he felt in the affair that he was not feeling in our marriage so that we can work on creating stronger bonds in whatever that area was.

    • TryingHard March 20, 2015 at 1:01 pm #

      Simple. THEY choose to!! There is NOTHING you can do to “make him see the light”. Nothing. Don’t even try. Do not take on the blame of him Choosing to lie, betray, deceive, put your health at risk, spend your resources on HER. And do not let your therapist tell you any difference. There’s plenty of happy marriages where folks cheat and plenty of unhappy marriages where folks don’t cheat. HIS cheating is all on him. You certainly have a roll for the success or demise of your marriage BUT it has nothing to do with “causing” him to cheat. Two different things. Apples and oranges. Deal with one at a time and never in the same conversation.

      Look he has a mouth. All he had to say is “look honey, this gal is coming on to me and I like it. I think we need to talk about our relationship” but no they NEVER do that. He went out and had fun for himself and yes I’m pretty sure he liked it. They all do. But they don’t like it quite as well when there’s a threat of losing everything.

      She sounds like a real upstanding citizen. Stay away from the woman. Hey at least she showed her true colors to him.

      • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:18 pm #

        I am hoping that night shed some light on her for him. He was fine that night and the next and then seemed to sink into a little depression for the next week. Affair withdrawal I have read is what it could be. It sometimes lasts for weeks. I just don’t need to have the axe fall on me again and have him make reconnection or he is history. Sad part…I NEVER had any warning signs so I have no idea what to look for anymore!!!! So..I just come right out and ask…”any contact made, accepted, etc?”. If he says no, I move on. If he does, he cannot ever come home to me again. Yes, I wished he had come to me and said something happened so we could have nipped it in the butt then, but…he did not. Aparently he liked it, as you said when it was going on and then when he realized what he could lose…different story–let’s hope. He DID tell our counselor that he did NOT want a divorce so he needs to get through this.

      • Rachel March 25, 2015 at 6:34 am #

        Trying hard,
        Perfectly said.
        We BS need to drill this in our heads.
        The CS always blames someone else.

  19. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 12:56 pm #

    My husband basically lived 2 separate lives which really bothers me. How could he do that and come home to me and not feel guilty?

  20. gizfield March 20, 2015 at 1:20 pm #

    Bonnie, I agree with Trying Hard. You are NOT the problem so please don’t let any counselor, therapist, etc. tell you that you are. Your marriage is not the problem. Anytime they try to shift blame to you put it right back where it belongs. On him. On her. Just my opinion.

    • Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

      I have to say…I am a pretty nice person. Rather pretty, outgoing, not overweight, good cook, active, love my family, loved my marriage (hate it right now), have a great job and good friends. Not sure what more he could want!!!!

  21. Bonnie March 20, 2015 at 1:22 pm #

    My husband hates counseling. He thinks they want the nitty gritty details of his affair when all they want to do is get us back to being emotionally connected and figure out if there are any weaknesses in our marriage/relationship. Anyone else have a reluctant spouse? He attended 2 sessions and was overwhelmed at the 2nd one. I asked the counselor if we could shift gears a bit so he doesn’t feel like he has to constantly talk about the OW and only talk about how it made him feel as opposed to how he felt in our marriage.
    He is still afraid to attend.

  22. Creston March 20, 2015 at 5:48 pm #

    We did counseling together and separately and helped somewhat but I can honestly say what helped me the most was confirming he was not cheating anymore. I too had no idea from his behavior that anything was going on. Zilch!! So I did what I would have considered underhanded and pathetic before the EA … I used hiden gps on his car, hacked emails and work credit cards, searched office etc without one shred of guilt. The gloves come off when you lie and break trust! And he was completely honest and accountable for his time and where he was at all times. That was the only thing that kept me somewhat sane and able to start to trust again. A counselor would probably say that was wrong but I did what I had to do to stay in the marriage. Innocence is lost but I’m still here and will do what I have to do to…. Trust but verify is my motto!!

    • Tryinghard March 20, 2015 at 7:59 pm #

      Creston
      I did the same and actually our MC told me to keep my eyes wide open and pay attention. When I told her about the GPS, H was also unaware, she supported me. Found nothing wrong with it. My H had become a professional liar and I too found nothing. I even used a key logger on his work computer. Nothing. Now he could have bought a second phone but I searched for it very well and found nothing. Trust but verify is just good thinking!!!

  23. Bonnie March 25, 2015 at 8:14 am #

    I’ve often thought of putting a hidden GPS on my husband’s truck since I am at work for 9 hrs a day and he has a very flexible schedule and his affair partner is out at 2PM. That is when they would meet up. I even caught them a few times AFTER he told me it was over. Any suggestions which one to buy and where did you place it on his/her vehicle? I am so getting to the point though…IF he is still cheating….it will eat away at him at some point and I’ll see it in his actions.

    • Doug March 25, 2015 at 10:07 am #

      Bonnie, If you really want to go ahead with that, this place has some good stuff: https://www.spyassociates.com/ I can’t help you with which one to buy or where to place it, though I would think inside/under a bumper would be best.
      I’m no expert but can’t you also use his cell-phone to accomplish the same thing? I thought most carriers have a GPS feature you can activate. We’re with AT&T and I think they do.

  24. Bonnie March 25, 2015 at 10:18 am #

    unfortunately, you have to jailbreak an Iphone to activate the GPS and then if anything goes wrong and the jailbreak is found……rutro!!!!

    • Tryinghard March 25, 2015 at 3:49 pm #

      Bonnie
      I used skytrak GPS. I got it from Amazon. Very easy to use. I placed it inside the car under a seat. I used it for almost a year without him knowing. Sometimes in the summer if it got too hot in the car it would show some wacky routes but otherwise it worked well. I think it was 300. It uses 2 AAA batteries and runs out after 5 days then you change the batteries. You remove the device from the car and download to your computer. Doesn’t work on Macs, at least this version didn’t . You can get a report and also watch their routes. I liked it. Simp,e to use

      I don’t feel bad or guilty about using it and now from time to time I use it but it’s been Months. Some folks may think it’s not right but what is not right but I had nothing to lose. I only saw one thing. He drove past her house. He knew she wasn’t home but I guess when he was in that area he just couldn’t resist. Said he wanted to see if she was selling it. Whatever, but when I asked him he lied about doing it till I showed him my evidence. He was pretty shocked but from then on he never knew when I’d be using it. Matter of fact the first one shot Capps and I bought a second one. He knew the first one broke but he never knew I had a second one. After that one time I never saw anything suspicious again. If you have any doubt in your mind I say do it. Good luck

  25. Creston March 26, 2015 at 2:45 pm #

    I used liveview gps. It’s pricey- approx $600 – but worked great! It has rechargeable battery and is motion activated so only uses battery power when car is moving. Also has case with strong magnet to attach under car but I never used it – afraid of it being seen and reported to H durIng oil changes etc. I used velcrow to attach under seat and in trunk. This device provides real time tracking and you pay a monthly fee ($50) to monitor exactly where device is by using an app on you phone. I never felt one ounce of guilt for the expense or sneakiness of using it! You can set up zones and you will get email or when device enters and exits an area you select. Really easy to use. I had to set up separate account for the monthly payments.

    I used the device on and off for 3 years and it was only way to be 100% sure he was truthful. And he was completely honest. He had lied to me for 2 of our then 26 yrs of marriage and I had absolutely NO idea!! We celebrate 30 yrs next month and I know i wouldn’t have stayed if I hadn’t been able to use the tracker.

  26. julia April 1, 2015 at 8:39 pm #

    Its been 3 months since he confessed. I am exhausted. Exhausted from showing him how much i care,exhausted from acting like i don’t care, exhausted from trying to talk about it, exhausted from trying to talk about anything else. He seems pretty good though. Fairly happy, once in a while he will ask me when do i think i will be getting over it because he “isnt going to feel like sh×× his whole life”. Ugh. I am constantly looking for and needing reassurance and its just not there. I am so exhausted.

    • Bonnie April 2, 2015 at 8:56 am #

      Julia, I too am exhausted. It sucks how the betrayed are usually the ones who put in most of the effort of recovery. I told my husband if he put as much effort into the recovery and repair of our marriage and relationship as he does everything else in his life we would win a prize!!! It’s been a month today since he put a final end to the communication with her (let’s hope!!!) and all he has done for the last 3 weeks every night is drink himself to sleep!!! Poor baby. I too am looking for reassurance and it’s not there–at least not the type that I need.

      • TryingHard April 2, 2015 at 4:32 pm #

        Bonnie
        Well let’s see, how much longer are you going to let that scorpion ride on your frog back before you let him sting you again.

        You “hope” there’s been NC for a month? I’d make damn sure.

        So now he drinks himself to sleep every night? Charming!! That’s ok with you? How is that even a little bit OK? Why’s he drinking himself to sleep every night? Please don’t say because he’s missing his schmoopie. Sounds like there’s a whole lot of co-dependency going on there. There’s a great book for that called Co-Dependent No More. Maybe that would help you see the forest for the trees. Dealing with infidelity is bad enough. Dealing with an alcoholic cheater would be a freaking deal breaker.

        I hope you are taking care of you and making room for a “Plan B”. Seriously my heart goes out to you, but what is in it for you to stay with this obviously dysfunctional man?

    • TryingHard April 2, 2015 at 4:25 pm #

      Julia
      I hear you on the exhaustion!! How tragic for your H that he is so uncomfortable from shitting in his nest that he just can’t wait for you to “get over it”!!!!!

      I can’t believe he actually used those words!! Not doubting you, blaming him and his narcissistic needs.

      Look it will take you however long it will take you. Needless to say I don’t feel sorry for him and it is my experience that the more humbled they are about their choices the quicker it is for you to heal.

      Don’t do the dance Julia. Don’t do it! Quit reassuring him and start taking care of YOU. Look his affair has nothing to do with how much you showed him or didn’t show him how much you “cared” for him. His affair is about HIS lousy choices, narcissism, character and feelings of entitlement. He is grooving on all the attention you are giving him and loves it that he doesn’t have to reciprocate because well he’s too busy lapping up all your attention. Stop it!

      I’m not saying you have to deal with every thought that comes into your head with regards to the affair but you and HE has to deal with the major issues of it. Weather or not he’s going to “feel like shit his whole life” is not your concern.

      I hope you are at least seeing a good therapist cause this crap is not easy to deal with without one. Sounds pretty much like your H is not helping you to deal with it either. Do not think sweeping it under the rug is going to make it go away or that you will get over it. And by the way, you NEVER get “over it” you learn to live despite it.

      • Bonnie April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm #

        Mine likes to sweep things under the carpet too. Out of sight, out of mind….along with downing 2,3 or 4 manhattans each night to get through his pity party for breaking her heart!!!! Affair withdrawal….he needs to read up on it. Doesn’t even know he is grieving a loss. A couple more weeks of the driniking CRAP and I’m sending him packing. He can go sleep drunk elsewhere.

        • TryingHard April 2, 2015 at 4:39 pm #

          Bonnie
          OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE!!!! Seriously he’s drinking because he broke HER heart???? What about your’s???

          I’ve got news. He’s incapable of reading up on affair withdrawal. Give that up. You read up on affair withdrawal and decide if that’s how you really want to live.

          A couple more weeks??? No TONIGHT!! Enough making excuses. Why put yourself through two more weeks of his drunken crap? Are you in school or something or a job? What’s significant about 2 weeks?

          Seriously I respect you because were it me that drunken son of a bitch I’d be the one making the Manhattans and he wouldn’t be liking what I put in it!!!

  27. Bonnie April 3, 2015 at 8:38 am #

    Hearing you loud and clear on this one. Yes, I have read up on affair withdrawals…he has not. If he did, he would understand there are 7 steps to it and you can’t mask them with manhattans. I am starting to realize he is incapable of dealing with the emotions associated with this and clearly seeing that he needs professional assistance to get through it. Our relationship/marriage was better while he was having the affair (and I didn’t even know abou it). The quality time we spend together is slim to non since his after dinner drinks start when we are able to sit down and spend time together. I’m 55, been married for 30 years and would love to have a man who is emotional capable of being with me. Not sure if he is that guy any more. Masking is inability to deal with what is needed to repair, rebuild and forget is not working for me. He is wallowing in his self pity.

    • TryingHard April 3, 2015 at 1:12 pm #

      Oh Bonnie
      My heart goes out to you. I really think you have to deal with his drinking first. I think the infidelity is just part of the drinking problem. That’s my 2 cents for of psychobabble. Regardless, I hope you are taking care of YOU. You will spend a life time trying to figure this guy out.

      I hear you on the age factor. I’m a little ahead of you. It’s hard to conceive giving it up but if you look really closely at all those years you will see cracks. I know I did. I denied at first and have only come to realize I have been spackling all those cracks in our relationship. But whose relationship is perfect is how I handled it. Once the bomb of infidelity drops all those cracks are wide open and there just isn’t enough spackle for them.

      I hope you will take care of yourself. Seriously get that book Co-Dependent No More and you will have an epiphany. You can go on living together and he can remain a miserable drunk until the day he dies right? It all depends on what you can tolerate. That drinking and pity party would be enough for me. I’d rather live in a trailer park!

  28. Bonnie April 3, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

    Thank you. I am taking care of myself…better some days than others. His weeknight drinking started on 3/9/15, just 6 days after he sent his no contact, it’s over, poor judgement, I’m moving on to save my marriage correspondence to her. After her immature friend showed up at our house to return all the lovely (cheap) things he bought her (to get a rise out of me I am guessing), with her in the car, the next night…he was OK, but I could see it in his eyes that he realized he screwed up more than his own life…he screwed up many and you cannot deny that. I feel like he is emotionally disconnected from me right now as he tries to come to terms with what he really did and how badly it affected many people. He is well aware the trust is severly damaged…I am too….I am not sure if I can deal with that for the next who knows how many years of my life. I am hoping we can recover from this. I know many people do. I would rather this have happended when I was younger…it hurts a lot after so many years of committment.

    • TryingHard April 3, 2015 at 2:03 pm #

      Bonnie
      Absolutely you can recover, but and huge BUT the cheater has to give you something to work with. That pity party from day 1 would have sent me running for the hills. Matter of fact I did run for the hills. It wasn’t until he saw I meant business did he come around. Prior to that he was just so confused, blah, blah, blah. Well I ended all that confusion for him. I quit doing the dance. In case you can’t tell I’m a huge proponent of tough love. Once he was back and we were in MC there was nothing for her but disdain.

      Strange that he’s just started drinking since NC even with her bizarre drop off act. I hope he wakes up soon to what he’s about to throw away.

  29. Bonnie April 3, 2015 at 2:25 pm #

    Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate them. Not until I told him I was prepared to divorce him did he put his NC in writing to her. I told him I was prepared to send him packing and I didn’t care where he went or who he ended up with but I would not live a life like we were living…him going in and out of communication with her. He has always been the type of person (even as a child) who was a fixer and never liked to hurt anyone’s feelings (really????…what happended to mine?…welll…I guess since he hid it so well and I never knew, he wasn’t hurting my feelings, right!????). His oldest brother died very young and his mom use to tell him he was her savior and could never do anything wrong. Not making excuses for him, but a few times he has told me…”I cannot fix this and it should not have done this, it was wrong”. At least he knows that part!!!! I know he is confused…confused as to WHY I want to be with him, confused WHY our son (who is almost 30) doesn’t want to beat the living shit out of him (he does, but he also loves his dad and knows this is our battle to overcome) and confused why our family is so supportive of us.

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