Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #13

microphone It’s that time again to talk about whatever you want to talk about! 

This is Open Mic #13 and we hope that there are some things that are going on that you can either ask questions about or share your experiences with everyone.

So…

  • What’s on your mind?
  • Have any successes to share? Big or small.
  • Got a question?  Ask it.
  • Do you have any problems or situations that you’d like the community to offer their opinions on?
  • Any good books you’d like to discuss?
  • What are you and/or your spouse doing to further the healing and recovery in your relationship?
  • What’s working or not working?
  • Has your therapist given you any good advice or exercises that the rest of the readers might benefit from?
  • What has your spouse done lately that really pisses you off?
  • What has your spouse done lately to make you really happy?

Please don’t be shy.  If there is anything whatsoever on your mind, please leave a comment below.

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

 

 

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52 Responses to Open ‘Mic’ Discussion #13

  1. Doug October 22, 2014 at 8:49 am #

    I’ll start this one off…For some time now we’ve received Google Alerts for articles that are related to infidelity, emotional affairs, marriage, etc. If any of the articles that Google alerts us to are worthwhile, we will post them or send them out in an email, etc.

    Now, it’s been mentioned that affairs can be deadly, but what I’ve noticed for quite some time is that on almost a daily basis there are news reports (mostly from India and other Asian and African countries) of wives, husbands and lovers being beaten, maimed or killed by the injured spouse, their family or even the local villagers. What I find interesting is that these acts seem to be committed more so as a result of shame and embarrassment rather than anger. There are also quite a few reports of suicides – both by the betrayed and the unfaithful.

    Since I don’t have the time to research this more, I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of how infidelity is perceived in other parts of the world. Are these acts of violence culturally based or religiously based? Are revenge and avenge accepted responses in many of these countries? Are there legal ramifications for those who cheat or those who exact revenge?

  2. theresa October 22, 2014 at 2:19 pm #

    ? Why can’t I follow my own insightful advice?

  3. tryinghard October 22, 2014 at 3:30 pm #

    Oh Theresa
    I would bet you follow your own insightful advice more than you think! Like I would bet you still haven’t murdered your husband!!! 🙂

    It’s so easy to say, not so easy to follow.

    Did anyone read the article in Psychology Today about how we are good a picking out the cheaters in the world. Not so good with seeing the Cheater signs in our own mates because we want to believe them. It’s interesting

    I got a new neighbor. Actually 2 new neighbors. The wife took over her parents residence after their death. She inherited a lot of money. She also has a good job, a husband and two teen aged kids. Probably married at least 20 years. Husband didn’t move in that condo, he bought the one across from me. Nice couple. Found out she was cheating and the thing is my gut told me she was a year ago. Guess he even caught her red handed, YIKES. I didn’t tell my H because I never had any solid evidence. Just a gut instinct and a couple red flags where she was concerned. She was a little too friendly with my h ie calling him regarding a construction project we were doing. Why wouldn’t she call me. Anyway I should have said at the time, you know what, somethings not right with Madam X and I don’t know what it is but I don’t want you talking to her anymore. Didn’t do that.

    What is it about cheaters? Do they put off some kind of pheromone or something? Or is it just a case that I’m super sensitive to it now? Also why do I STILL not trust MY OWN gut instincts???

    OK so now I have suspicions about another guy I know. I’m telling you he is either cheating or into child porn!!! He gives me the creeps. Kinda like that creep guy on 7th Heaven that just admitted to molesting children the last 20 years. Looks totally normal. Drives a nice car, nice home, nice business, family, no outside typical creepy clues, just my gut. Hey I was right about my new neighbors!

    I’ll let you know when I find out 🙂 LOL Creeps never think they will get caught.

    • Doug October 22, 2014 at 4:20 pm #

      Always trust the gut, right? Linda and I also seem to have a knack for picking them out. I guess experience has something to do with it. Prior to all this I think we would have been oblivious. Do you have a link to the article you can share?

      • tryinghard October 22, 2014 at 4:27 pm #

        http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/close-encounters/201410/study-many-us-can-spot-cheater-within-5-minutes

        Maybe it’s like when you find yourself pregnant. All of a sudden the world is pregnant.

        Yeah I think I will and speak up to him as well when I see it.

        I guess I have a little bit of pride left and don’t want my H to think I’m a jealous lunatic, right? Seriously when it happens I’m like, ooo I KNEW IT!

        • Doug October 23, 2014 at 9:12 am #

          Or when you buy that “special” car and then all you see is that special car everywhere you go. Thanks for the link!

          • Strengthrequired October 23, 2014 at 4:52 pm #

            I was going to say that yesterday, great minds think alike.

    • theresa October 22, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

      Does anyone remember an old tv show (twilight zone, I think), husband dead, no murder weapon at the scene. When the investigators came to do their thing, wife invites them to have dinner, didn’t want it to go to waste!
      The officers mightily enjoyed their leg of lamb dinner!!!
      Can you guess?
      And yeah, mine is still alive and kick’en.

      • tryinghard October 22, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

        T
        That’s pretty funny. There’s a new show about a woman teaching criminology and the line is How to Get Away With Murder. I was talking with a cop about the show, he’s in training to be a detective and taking classes on just that, and he said that’s easy, Run them over with a car! Cannot prove it wasn’t an accident. Just make sure you call the police. Jeez and I thought using a GPS was pretty sneaky!!

        Just sayin all you cheaters out there, better sleep with one eye open and make sure you use the cross walks 🙂

  4. tryinghard October 22, 2014 at 3:33 pm #

    How’s that for a couple of Open Mic subjects Doug and Linda 🙂

    • Doug October 22, 2014 at 4:18 pm #

      Awesome! Thanks for contributing. I hope those who remain shy will join in. (hint, hint)

  5. Strengthrequired October 22, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

    I’m not shy Doug, lol. I just dint know what to say, except for Th to keep that neighbour of hers away from her h. I know I would. I somehow think that our senses are sparked, due to the affair, but I also believe we can spot a cheater, but don’t want to believe our spouse would turn into one, we want to believe that we are the exception. That is until we learn different, like when they actually cheat.

    • Doug October 23, 2014 at 9:08 am #

      Oh, I know you’re not shy! We appreciate all of your contributions. Only about 1% of the visitors to blogs make comments. The other 99% are the shy ones!

      • Strengthrequired October 23, 2014 at 7:18 pm #

        Thanks Doug, your site has helped me understand a bit more of what I needed to understand in relation to my h ea/pa.
        I’m thinking maybe my h gave me a little bit more insight into his infatuation with his ow. He said she was good at looking after him. He actually admitted it was like mothering him, He admitted that he had no sexual feelings towards her, it was more the emotional side of things he was addicted to, the mothering over him. No wonder it didn’t last with them. Somehow it reminds me of the episode with everybody loves Raymond, where Ray and Deborah argue about something and he blurted out that he wanted her to be more like his mother. Deborah said, something like, ohhh so you wish you married your mother. Lol. He agreed at first then quickly changed his mind saying no….
        My h never had his mother growing up, so I can see how he would have liked that mothering, but I didn’t sign up to be a mother to my h, I signed up to be a wife. So hopefully that need for a mother figure is out of his system now.

  6. Rachel October 23, 2014 at 5:59 am #

    Well you know im not shy. This is my venting zone and here we go again!!
    I got a letter from a bank asking me if my son moved.
    Well, the sperm donor changed my sons address so he will receive the bank statements from an account that we opened when he was a baby.
    I then realized that I wasn’t added to the account as the divorce decree states.
    I emailed spermy and told him that I need to be added to the account.
    Of course no response from him.
    So now calling the attorney yet again to get this jerk to follow the rules!!
    Geez, he’s draining. How did I stay married to him so long???
    Thanks for the venting zone.

    • Doug October 23, 2014 at 9:10 am #

      It sounds like he’s sitting around thinking up ways to f*#k with you. Be careful if it’s a juvenile/minor account. He may drain it.

    • Strengthrequired October 23, 2014 at 6:56 pm #

      Rachel, sounds like your exh is trying to still have some control over you and your children. Sounds like he still feels he has the right. Let us know how you go after speaking with your solicitor. Good luck, he is a bad gift that just keeps on giving isn’t he? Hugs

    • Broken2 October 25, 2014 at 5:54 pm #

      R I love it when our stupid ex or spouse slip up. Thinking they are sneaky…..glad you caught him as he probably would be draining your childs money.

  7. Gizfield October 23, 2014 at 2:17 pm #

    I’m not shy, statically, just extra busy lately.

  8. Jim October 23, 2014 at 8:13 pm #

    Any thoughts on giving your cheating spouse articles why we the betrayed spouses have issues similar to Post traumatic stress syndrome.. Why we obsess over the details of their affair. Fits of anger…. My wife still insists he is just a friend. Having sex is cheating she says.. Shirley Glass was interviewed by Psychology Today in 1997, great article., really explains the betrayed spouses trauma.

    • Strengthrequired October 24, 2014 at 1:48 am #

      Jim, my h still after a year and a half of his affair actually ending, has trouble in giving me the answers to my questions, I need answered. He is happy to live like nothing happened, he thinks it needs to stay in the past and if he can do it then so can I.
      Unfortunately after a coule of conversations with him this week, he had actually started getting upset because I asked questions that had been bugging me.
      he even told me that what I asked, I shouldn’t need to know, because he doesn’t even remember. Well that comment had me quite anointed, but I had to explain to him, that he has had time to come to terms with what he did, he knows everything he did, here I am trying to make sense of everything, as I was kept in the dark etc. I told him that, he needed to understand that everything I believed in, about our marriage, his love for me, everything we shared together since being married, which I held special, and believed he held special was taken away from me. He gave himself to someone else, and that if he wanted any chance of me moving forward, beyond this, then I needed to have my questions answered, truthfully. He i have to say is worried that the answers he gives will create more questions. Yet I had to remind him again, it does not matter how uncomfortable you are or I get, I need the answers to the questions I ask.
      I also mentioned to him that I am sure if I had done to him what he did to me, he would be questioning his own manhood, because he was unable to keep his wife satisfied, that she had to find it elsewhere, I said, do you see where I am coming from. My self respect, my dignity and my role as a wife and mother and as a person, my while womanhood, was taken from me, so to speak, because I believed there was something wrong with me, because I could not keep my h from going outside our marriage.
      Still not sure if he finally got it, but he did answer some of the questions I had, although he didn’t want to. So in a way I feel like I forced the issue. As somehow, it all came back onto me because I was depressed after the birth of our baby, and he seems to think he kept trying to help me, but apparently I wouldn’t accept his help.
      If he thinks just saying, go to the dr and get help is help, then it wasn’t enough. really he didn’t try hard enough, to give me what I needed from him.
      Maybe now though after he has experienced depression himself, who by the way had me standing by his side the whole way through it, even though he was running around with his ow. Maybe now he sees that depression can affect people differently, and the way they handle it is different too. Yet you stand by the person that needs you, not dump them and move onto the next best thing. I could have done just that just to make myself feel better, but didn’t. Let me tell you though, here I was fighting one depression, just to be hit with what’s like ptsd.
      I have made a point in telling my h now, that if he ever feels like he is falling out of love for me, then he first tries to get that spark back with me, and if it doesn’t work then we divorce first before he throws himself at another person. I couldn’t handle that again.

    • Doug October 24, 2014 at 11:50 am #

      Jim, it sounds like your spouse is in denial anyways so I’m thinking that trying to get her to read articles might be a waste of time. If you think otherwise, you might want to give her this: http://www.emotionalaffair.org/tear-stained-eyes-of-betrayed/

      Best of luck!

  9. Tabs October 23, 2014 at 9:17 pm #

    Jim,

    I bought Shirley Glass’ “Not Just Friends”. She is very insightful and helpful. You might benefit from reading it, especially since she address affairs with and without sex.

    I have given my H many articles on cheating. He’s had two affairs, one with sex, the other without. But I treat both the same. It took numerous articles to convince him that his affair without sex is still an affair and cheating. I know in my heart the relationship would have turned to sex, given time. As Dear Annie says in her column, “Cheating is when one partner shares intimacies, sexual or otherwise, with someone other than the spouse.” Tell your wife she’s deluding herself if she thinks her “friendship” is not an affair.

    • Jim October 23, 2014 at 9:56 pm #

      Thanks Tabs, I have heard of the book and it has been referenced in many articles online. I will have to pick it up.

  10. Cherry October 25, 2014 at 10:19 am #

    Lately, I have been reading articles about Karma. I don’t believe in Karma. If I did, my H’s affair would be something I was paying for…something I deserved. I did nothing wrong. We both agree, there was plenty of attention and satisfying sex in our relationship. However, I’ve recently discovered that his affair partner has been diagnosed with stage 4 bone cancer in her spine. Terrible. I can’t help but hope SHE believes in Karma. Sorry, but it’s how I feel. Because my H started the A and she RARELY texted or called him first, she feels like she did NOTHING wrong. I don’t see it like that. She had every opportunity to tell him to stop, block his calls or tell me (she was a friend), but didn’t. She says she’s loved him for 40 years. Not owning up to her participation in the A has really stuck in my craw. Karma? More like God cut her from the tree of life. I keep wondering what will HE reap?

    • Tryinghard October 25, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

      Cherry
      I do believe in karma. I do believe whatever you put out comes back. Does that mean I deserved my husband having an affair. Maybe? Maybe I haven’t been empathic enough to others pain and struggles. This not to say I did anything to make him have an affair. That’s his problem and his own karma. And trust me he suffered from his dishonesty and entitlement issues and disrespectful actions. He sees it now. I hope he’s learning from it.

      The OW in my case is also diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Some very rare form that is incurable. Makes no difference to me. She’s getting the same pain and suffering she put out during her tenure on this earth. Her karma. Not mine! Same for the OW in your life. Yep she could have stopped the affair she chose not to. Neither did your husband. One of the great mysteries of life when people are given the free will to choose to do the right thing and don’t.

      Sucks to be them right now!

  11. theresa October 25, 2014 at 7:17 pm #

    giving my H material I thought would be helpful was a waste of time. he’d lie about reading it most of the time, or he’d say that “it’s not for me”, “doesn’t fit”, or “it was a waste of time”.
    the last few times he would take the material, he would put it aside and say nothing. Not another sound, ever.
    on the rare occasions he did read it, he would grab on to a word or phrase and just regurgitate it. The most recent buzz was “he’d be more aware”.
    that’s it….have you ever been stunned by something so ludicrous it leaves you speechless?
    There are a few beautiful pieces on this topic, The first one “Joseph’s letter” says it all in a nutshell. Anyone have easy access to this? If not I’ll dig this out.
    there’s another I can’t remember right now, I’ll dig this out too.
    When I find something like this it would give me hope, maybe he could understand it better than what I have tried to get him to understand.
    it only works when the cheater genuinely wants to fix things. I think he jus gets annoyed now. I just got more hurt and hopeless.
    There’s nothing left to fix us, I concentrate on me now.

  12. tdleea October 26, 2014 at 11:41 pm #

    Well, this comes around at the perfect time. I’m so sad/upset/shocked/confused/baffled……I don’t even know what to do. My husband had an affair for almost 2 yrs-it started just before I had our 4th child. I knew that something wasn’t right but, of course, I never suspected an affair.

    Trust has always been difficult for me to give 100%, but I did with him. My life had been great…or so I thought. A few months into the affair and about a month after our son was born, all of a sudden he finally blew with me continually asking him what was wrong. He was just so irritable. Well, I was shocked to hear a long list of things I did and didn’t do which ranged from he hated where we lived, his relationship with his family was shit because of me, our house was a mess, we had too many animals, blah, blah, blah.

    All I can say was I felt completely blindsided and shocked. Whatever made me do it-gut instinct I’m sure-I ordered cell phone records and the rest as they say is history-horrible, sad, painful and frustrating history. He played the cat and mouse game with me. He would pull me in, make me hope and as soon as I would I would get pushed back rudely and meanly. Back and forth for a year and a half-went though $8000.00 between the two of us in divorce proceedings along with a nasty legal issue-I couldn’t take the back and forth anymore and knew that if he wasn’t going to make the decision of me or her, I would for my own sanity!

    I was taking care of 4 kids, had a full time job and a hobby farm. I told him not to come over and when he did (because he felt he could do whatever he wanted when it came to me) I called the police in an effort to get a restraining order. Well, he ended up being arrested then I had a no contact order. But, guess what ? We had contact for 3 more months-he put on his ring, asked me to drop the charges, played nice for a bit, but I didn’t trust him…few weeks later, the wedding ring came off again. After 3 months and the court date we abided by the no contact for about 2 months. I preface with the history because it brings me to right now.

    After 2 months, we ended up talking and I could tell my husband was back. He had gotten help for his problems and issues and wanted to reconcile. That was almost 4 yrs ago. It has been hard but he has had no problem telling me everything and answering questions. He’s told me things that really hurt and he knew they would when he told me but we both knew how important this was. Well, as I’ve gone through my healing and rebuilding process I finally last spring came to the realization that my husband was here, showing me everything he could to reassure me, etc-I have a choice to let it all go, open my heart, believe and trust in him and live with love-whatever happens,,,happens but I need to enjoy now. This was hard up until I thought about it this way.

    So I’ve been living it and feeling pretty good about everything. There are certain situations that send me reeling in the past and I think my husband is kind of feeling like my ‘past’ will never end. Last night we have this conversation because we have been disconnected for about a week. As in he has been very irritable with me which makes me cringe and turn quiet. So he wants to talk last night and says he doesn’t think we have the same views on things such as things with the kids-I couldn’t get any other examples from him (and do we all have to have the same views??), he doesn’t think we have the same family values-the way my family is is different from his, not that it’s a bad thing he says, he feels he is always the one giving n on things-I asked for examples because quite honestly he has said before how well we work together and I’m a pretty flexible laid back person but he couldn’t give any. He says that there are things he disagrees with but he just goes along with it. To which I replies that he needs to open his mouth at the time because otherwise I don’t know.

    This was one big thing we talked about when we got back together……there was one more thing but I just can’t even think right now! The conversation freaked the hell out of me! He said it was just a conversation. Oh! I know. He basically also said that he is tired about hearing everything from the past and how I always tell him that he doesn’t understand (because he won’t read things about affairs and learn about how it effects me. I had to ask if he was talking to someone to which he said he was offended. I’m am just beside myself. I don’t know what to think or do. I have been preparing my mind for divorce arrangements.

    How do we go along and I’m feeling good about things and he ends up irritable?!? How do I end up blindsided?? What do I do? How do I act? Is this another bubbling happening. I am so sad and confused. Thanks for listening to my ramblings. I don’t feel like I have anyone else to talk to about this that would understand. And, I know it’s hard when you don’t know us. But, thanks!

    • theresa October 28, 2014 at 11:18 pm #

      could you tell him you need a break to work through a few things for yourself? You’re not happy, or feel unsettled, or need to re-evaluate, or any other BS you could think of? Or, use some of HIS old lines?

  13. tdleea October 27, 2014 at 12:58 pm #

    He has told me he’s not mad at me and it’s nothing that I’m doing. I think it would be better if it was something i was doing so i could change. This is a scary position right now. He doesn’t want me to act weird with him. but, how do i act when he just told me all these things that are bothering him and that he’s irritable and he’s not feeling happy? It makes me feel like I should duck and hide. Like I should go to the other room. Like I should do everything so he has nothing to worry about. i suppose the fear is to-that I feel like I’m starting to reel and not think clearly and that I may be on the emotional path as it had been during the affair and I will truly NEVER walk down that path again. So, that makes me feel hardened and trying to just shut off from him which is something he doesn’t like because he says he’s not mad at me. Why do I feel crazy AGAIN?!?!?!

  14. antiskank October 27, 2014 at 1:12 pm #

    It is truly unfortunate but “I am not alone”

    So many of the things mentioned strike a chord with me. After 4 years of my CS’ cheesy emotional affair with his one true love – a coworker, I found out and ruined it all. This was 2 1/2 years ago. He was madly, passionately in love and lust for the first time in his life. (We had been married 38 years at that point) She didn’t seem to share his feelings, just played with him to get her jollies, but he didn’t see it.

    As you can all relate, I was devastated beyond comprehension. He lied, pretended they were just friends, it was all my fault, I was unreasonable to expect him to get rid of his “friend”. Then he decided to lie some more and tell me that he really loved me and would do anything to save our marriage. He still didn’t get rid of the slut, didn’t keep his word on anything and carried on seeing her at work, getting texts from her, watching with pleasure as I fell apart more each day.

    When he knew he had to face the first of our counsellors, he made a half hearted attempt to break it off with OW by phoning her and telling her that his wife didn’t think they should continue, that his wife thought it wasn’t appropriate! Her response, – Okay, see you at work! Pretty effective, huh? A week later I called her and suggested that what he was really tryng to say is that there was to be NO contact between them – no more texting, phone calls, cozy coffee breaks together – nothing! She feigned suprise and said that she only thought of him as an older uncle!! (She is 20 years younger) Considering that I saw the texts, I call BS. I was super polite and nice to her for some stupid reason.

    After I called her, I think they stopped seeing each other. But he ramped up his emotional abuse campaign on me. He told me every horrible thing he could come up with to destroy me, including the old standard – I don’t love you, have never loved you, could never love you. Anythng that he could say to hurt me ; from comparing me unfavourably to his one true love, telling me he had never chosen me, to telling me that I was old, fat, ugly, boring, etc…… Not true, but when you are already devastated from the betrayal, it takes a toll on your self confidence for sure. His tactics worked in spades, I was totally destroyed with no one to turn to but him. Many times I wished I could just die.

    In the midst of his abuse, he would sometimes decide to really mess with my mind by pretending that he realized what he had done and really did love me and want me now. He would lie in bed with me, holding me, saying this is what he had missed and he loved me so much. His goal was just to get sex and stay close enough to twist the knife. After pretending for a few weeks at a time, then he would tell me that he didn’t love me – he was just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear.

    I tried so hard to give him opportunities to be a decent human being and tried everything to get him to talk to me, to help me get beyond this torture. After a while, he would do the odd little thing to make it seem like he cared but still no talking. More little things like going shopping with me, making me toast for breakfast. If I were to tell him how I felt, he would change the subject, ignore me and walk away. I tried asking him to talk ever day. I tried avoiding any negative subjects. I tried acting loving and having fun as if nothing was bothering me. I would send him emails describing my torment, asking him for responses. I would send him articles about affairs. Nothing worked. He completely ignored it all.

    As long as I played along and didn’t ask anything of him, he would say he knew he had been wrong and would appear on the outside to be getting back to caring about me but it didn’t feel right. He would assure me frequently that he was over the OW and wanted to spend his life with me. He would tell me he loved me sooooo much. Meanwhile he had made promises to stop gambling, stop viewing porn, stop lying, and actually talk out our problems. They were all lies!!

    When he told me that he was over her but wasn’t – it wasn’t really a lie because he knew that maybe someday he would be over her. When he told me he loved me but didn’t , it wasn’t a lie because maybe he could again someday. When he saw her and said hello, it wasn’t a lie when he told me that he hadn’t because I asked if he’d said Hi – very different! When he talked to her after saying he never would, it was only because he was being polite. When he went to the casino and when he watched porn after promising not to – well, you know some things are hard to do. Can you tell this is a person that cares nothing about me? I sure can, but it took a while.

    I’m truly not sure how I survived to this point as he would do absolutely nothing to help me through my grief and would just walk away when I would cry or feel hurt. He told me more than once that he just didn’t care about me. He has told me that he did nothing to help me or to repair our marriage because he didn’t think he had to, and he didn’t want to. How’s that for making someone feel that they are completely worthless, not even worth putting a minimal effort!

    I did eventually get a little stronger, but was apparently still in denial – I decided that enough is enough. I was tired of the games. I needed answers, honesty, full disclosure. I needed to start healing and I was ready to move on – whatever that looked like. I told him to shape up or ship out. I have discussed divorce, selling the house, spilitting the animals, arranging family holidays to avoid each other.

    Things have been very bad for the last few months. Interestingly, we have talked a little about things just in the last couple of weeks because I have told him I am done with him. That seemed to wake him up just a tiny bit. He apparently doesn’t want to lose the house and still doesn’t want to be alone. Apparently he still needs me to do the cooking and cleaning – something he previously told me was the only reason I had any value. Once again, he is begging for a chance, telling me he loves me.

    Silly me, thinking maybe we had hit a turning point and that maybe there was a chance after all. Maybe there was a real live person inside that cheating scumbag’s body. But when getting down to the nitty gritty, it turns out that he has truly felt that he did
    nothing wrong. He has spent the past 2 1/2 years longing for the slut, and trying to get revenge on me for making him lose his true chance at happiness. He had to make me pay – apparently the betrayal and abuse weren’t enough. I need to pay for ruining his life!! Can you believe it?

    But, don’t you see? NOW – this time (he says) he really means it. This time he really is over her, this time he does love me – not in that head over heels way but love just the same. He really does want to help me get better. I just can barely look at him at this point. I feel sick to my stomach like I have been betrayed all over again, only more so. To top it all off, in my deplorable state of confusion and pain, I think I may still love this lousy excuse for a husband. How disgusting is that?

    Now I am really in a state. I alternate between the excruciating, crushing pain and the outraged anger over what he has done to me, to my life. Financially we just cannot afford to support two households but I don’t think that I can get over all of his lies, betrayal, and abuse. I have tried thinking of some way out of this but just can’t come up with anything.

    Have other BS dealt with this type of revenge from the CS? Do all CS play with your mind and manipulate you this way? Am I the only one stupid enough to believe and keep putting myself out ther while not knowing the extent of the lies I am being fed? I am I the only one stupid enough to stil feel love for the CS even while I despise everything he’s done to me? How do you give this kind of CS yet another chance without compromising your own self respect and being a doormat all over again?

    • Strengthrequired October 27, 2014 at 5:35 pm #

      Antiskank, firstly love the name lol.
      Let me just say, you are not alone, that is for certain.
      Those mind games, I think all cs do that. Mine did, although I know my cs loves me, yet he still used those mind games and lies as well as the deceipt. my cs appears to know what he wants now, that he loves me and only me, yet after all they did to keep the affair going, certainly is hard to truly believe.
      Yet the truth is, like you I love my cs, yet it doesn’t stop me from thinking am I making a mistake staying with him, because like you, I do not want to feel like I am his doormat again. I remember during the middle of my h affair, I told him that he was treating me like a doormat. He actually felt offended that I would say such a thing, because in his sick and twisted mind back then, he wasn’t treating me badly.
      He wanted his cake and he wanted to eat it too.
      So for me although things are so much better now, I at times wonder as the dust settles, have I lost that much respect for my h, when it comes to him and our marriage, that, I still fight that urge to just call it quits, whether I love him or not, has he just caused too much damage to our marriage and to me, as well as our children for the sake of a skank, is it just too much for me to get past now?
      Each day I ask myself the same question, and I still have no answer. Maybe because I don’t want to put my children through a divorce. I see them happy for the first time in a long time, and I just don’t want to take that away from them. As well, I do love him, I think I am more afraid of being able to believe him, when he talks about our future, incase at the flip of a switch he changes again.
      Maybe I still need time, so I take each day as it comes, and hope that I begin to see that I am safe again.

      • CBb October 28, 2014 at 10:11 am #

        Yes they are the same. All lies all the time. The CS is delusional and will do whatever it takes to get what they want, just like a 2 year old spoiled brat.

        after 15 months of therapy I have recovered from this nightmare. I have forgiven my CH for the he’ll he put us through. And he has acknowledged and admitted all he has done wrong. And is trying to help me heal.

        The difference is he admits his bad choices and has answered all Qs (for the most part) truthfully. It took him 6 months to admit he loved her (and I saw it in emails and texts). I was stuck on that issue until he finally admitted it.

        But I now put me first. I make sure my needs are met and I am happy with my life, with or without him. If our marriage ended tomorrow I will be saddened by it but would move forward with my life with joy.

        Therapy helped with that aspect.

        Yes they will play mind games and try to do WHATEVER it takes to get their own way. I would not be able to put up with that.

        As many know when I found out about the EA round two (ended and 2 months later he went running back b/c she was not yet out of his system) I asked him to leave. We were done and there was nothing left. That scared him completely.

        I also told him if he wanted me to stay he needed to sign a post nup agreement, so any $ in my name he cannot touch in a divorce (thanks to some smart women). So I am protected and so are my kids.

        His mid life crisis almost upended our family. But through therapy and his desire to correct his errors and choices we are together and happy.

        I take it day by day. It is easier that way.

        Men are like children at times.

        Take back your power. Put yourself first. Don’t believe his BS that you are the cause. He chose to cheat and be a scumbag. He could have done the right thing but CHOSE not to. Don’t fall victim to his antics.

        When I stood up to my CH it was the most freeing moment. When I asked him to leave he refused. So I called a mutual friend and made arrangements for him to go. My CH was Shocked and he became unglued.

        I wish we could see our situations from a third party viewpoint. It could help us.

        But I think if you can stop being a victim in this it will start you on thecroad to recovery, which is long and hard. And you’re responsible for your happiness. No one else should have that power.

        I hope these ideas help. I hate to see you stuck in this warp.

  15. Tabs October 27, 2014 at 8:24 pm #

    Antiskank

    It’s a common tale. We love and despise our CS all at the same time. My H, like yours, didn’t feel like he cheated with a girl almost the same age as our daughter. Since there was no sex, there was no cheating. However, he was sexting her when ever he could. It’s something that I have to remind him of. I didn’t demand everything end right away because they were working on a very large project together…my mistake. The project crashed and burned. So, I totally understand what you mean about the lack of self respect. Should have told him to end everything the minute I found out.

    It’s been about three years since that affair.To this day, I “constantly” question whether I should have just kicked out my H out and been done with my marriage. I will say, though, my H is trying to make ammends. But I realize he’s trying so hard to forget about the affairs that he is really forgetting what he’s done. “Out of sight, out of mind.”

  16. antiskank October 28, 2014 at 11:39 am #

    Thank you all for your words of wisdom. Love is certainly a complicated thing, isn’t it. Although we can be so intelligent in other areas of our lives, when it comes to love, we just can’t get it together!

    Although it really does make me feel better to know that I am no the only one with these feelings and constant torment, it makes me so sad for all of us. Our lives have been forever changed by someone else’s lies and betrayals.

    There are so many commonalities, from the types of situations to the constant and continued lying.
    Tabs – like your husband, mine “fell in love” with someone our daughter’s age. She was in fact a friend of our son’s and had had some sort of dalliance with him too!! Doesn’t that make you want to vomit?

    CBb – Like your husband, mine refused to admit he loved his skank for a very long time, just one of so many lies. He has also started answering a few questions but not with any clarity. It sounds like you are getting back on track in spite of all that you have dealt with. I applaud your strength and determination. I hope things get better for you.

    Strengthrequired – How true by the way! The only good thing for me is that my children are adults and although they would be devastated by us splitting up, it’s not the same as hurting young children with such news. I feel for you. That has to be a very difficult situation on top of the pain of the betrayal.

    You are all so strong in trying to get beyond the pain and live a life. I hope for myself and for you that the pain does eventually fade away and life can be enjoyed as fully as it is meant to be. Right now, even though I have taken a stand and decided to get back to living a full life, it’s so hard to maintain the strength with any constancy. Your responses bolster my resolve and make me feel like I am not really going completely crazy! Thank you.

  17. Connie October 29, 2014 at 1:15 am #

    I need help and advice on what are appropriate interactions with my spouses’s affair partner. Sometimes when I’m really hurting, I lash out at both husband and OW to point out how horrible their behavior and lies are and how much damage they’ve caused our family. The OW recently responded first to my spouse, that she deletes my communications w/o reading them and that she wishes nothing but peace and blessings to us. Then she emailed me a horrible email, pointing out all the mean things my husband said about me to her, really below the belt and not all truthful by any means. The hardest was hearing how he told her he was searching for a better female role model than I for our daughters. That’s one of the things that he thought the OW could fulfill. They are both huge triathlete and marathoners. And he admires her athletic stamina and has no regard or interest in my work with the poorest of poor across the globe. Usually, I can live above all this, but occasionally I buckle and I want to hurt them through words. I want to tell her husband and leak info to her following of other triathletes who all think she is so up worthy. They had a full fledge emotional and physical, sexual relationship, a year of hundreds of lies, and wrecked our family life. At the end of her hurtful letter to me, which not only included a list of negative things about me, she also made multiple excuses for what she did, offered an insincere, generic/blanket apology (sorry for any pain I might have caused) and finished it with stating she wishes nothing but peace and happiness for me. How do I move on, not respond and not waste my time seething over this? I hate her. My husband is trying to make amends. We are in marriage therapy, he shows remorse, usually patient when I rehash things, etc. In the grand scheme of things, she’s nothing. And whether she gets it or not, isn’t anything I should waste my energy on, but I ridiculously yearn to bring her to her knees. I want a true blue apology from her (which I know I’ll never get). I feel like a loser for even thinking about her. But then when I discuss this with my husband, he stands up for her every time…she’s a great person…that’s not like her to communicate to me the way she did…you must have pushed her to respond in such a disrespectful way…and on and on. Then I get mad and hurt by that.

    Anyone have good advice to get me to rise above all this catty stuff and focus on improving myself and our marriage? I’m losing self respect.

  18. Tryinghard October 29, 2014 at 9:44 am #

    Connie
    First I am so sorry that you have had this horrible experience. It is a truly awful place to be and all of us hear and know what you’re going through.

    I don’t know how much reading or therapy you’ve done. All of us here have done copious amounts of both! I hope we can be of help to you.

    Ok so your H is a triathlete which in and of itself is pretty narcissistic. I. A huge believer that cheater have a lot of narcissism which is a huge lack of empathy and entitlement. The fact that he defends the OW TO YOU shows his deep lack of empathy. At this point you need to ask him to put himself in YOUR shoes. He doesn’t get it. He’s probably still enamoured with her as they have a lot of common interests, right? This is impossible for a betrayed spouse to take. In order for him to feel the pain HE’S inflicted on you he has to feel shame and remorse. He has to humble himself to feel it. Right now he sees himself as some sort of “prize” to be won. He has the attention of two women. What a glorious place for a competitive man to be in!!

    The OW didn’t give you an apology and she won’t. Besides is there even an apology out there that she could give that would make a difference? Hell no!! What you really want from her is a statement that she won’t continue having an affair with you husband and she won’t do that either so you are essentially spinning your wheels with her. She has nothing to lose. She’s a sociopath. She believes she did nothing wrong after all she didn’t make any promises to you is what she believes. She’s entitled as well. So leave her alone. Take her out of the equation because all you are doing is building her ego. She thinks she’s smarter better than you. Seriously ignore her!

    I spent a lot of time focusing on the OW and trust me I got my pound of flesh from her. Scared the shit out of her but revenge is never enough. And in the end you only make yourself look more foolish. To that end her husband needs to know about the affair. Now maybe you don’t want to tell him because you’re afraid he will dump her and she and your h are then free to run off together to a happy love filled triathlon but is that what you want your marriage held together with? She is banking on you not telling her husband for just that reason. I say tell him and let the chips fall where they may.

    Your h disrespected you and still continues to do so. The fact that he would even dare to defend her to you after having an affair with her is reason enough to toss his ass out! This is not the road to reconciliation. It’s a road to putting off the inevitable.

    Right out of the gate you have to draw the line in the sand and let him know any disrespect will not be tolerated any longer. You need total transparency that the affair is over. To be honest with you the fact that he doesn’t see how dispicable she is in being complicit in wrecking your lives tells me it’s not! He thinks they can still “be friends” and they can’t PERIOD!!! No contact, ever. Get some books, find a supportive therapist and start respecting yourself before you ever start trying to get him to respect you.

    I hate the OW with all my being and I wish nothing short of hell for her but until I focused all my attentions on my husband and realized my hate red for her was only still my residual anger at him did I let my revenge towards her go. It’s easy to focus on the OW because we want to forgive and get back to that loving relationship but it’s totally misguided anger. Focus on yourself and decide if this person is really who you want or need in your life. Deal with his betrayal to you not her.

    I hope I’ve helped.

    • Rachel October 29, 2014 at 9:45 pm #

      Well said tryinghard. Connie you don’t deserved to be treated like that. As tryinghard said take care of you !!! You are a good person!

      I bought a sign BREATHE when my ex husband cheated on me.
      Just looking at it calms me.
      peace and take care.

  19. betrayedchump October 29, 2014 at 6:39 pm #

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Divorce Just SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! Lawyers are cold hearted robots (insert your own description) who drag out the process (with their good old boy fellow lawyers) far longer than it should take!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE DIVORCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    My CS who filed for divorce after I discovered her EA with a MM with 2 kids keeps playing mind games with me to continue to show me she has CONTROL!!!!!!! Divorce was final on 08/30/14, she was required by the court in the property settlement to give to me some furniture & washer & dryer (my mother’s items), pictures of OUR son & my family, pay off her 1/2 of our joint credit card, get her own health & life insurance on or before 08/30/14!!!!!!!! She refuses to let me into OUR house (now her house) so I can get my things because she is afraid of me??????????? She was so afraid of me that she would drive to my work by herself in my company vehicle (that I had to provide her for 30 days) & walk into the building by herself when no one else but me was in the building????????
    I called insurance company this week to get her off insurance policy & was told by insurance company she called on 08/15/14 & 09/18/14 but didn’t cancell her policy?????
    Finally saw my lawyer face to face last week & told him to do what he legally can do for me to get my things!!!!!!!!!! He said to me well I haven’t heard anything from her lawyer of her?????????????? It took every fiber of my body to not reach over his desk & choke the living shit out of him. I told him I don’t want you to talk to her lawyer or her, do your job for me, do what you can do legally to make her to abide by the court ordered property settlement NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You know the absolutely worst sick twisted part of ALL of this is I STILL LOVE HER?????
    I saw on this site about the I Hate You Because Letter & I have started mine, to her, her EA MM & her 2nd EA MM. I think I should have started the letters to her boyfriends first because I don’t think her letter is ever going to end!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!!! I HATE DIVORCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Rachel October 29, 2014 at 9:31 pm #

    Sorry betrayedchump for what you are going thru.
    You should contact your attorney about getting your things out of the house especially if it’s in the divorce decree. Call the insurance company and get her off of your insurance.
    The divorce decree isn’t anything that is taken lightly I’m really surprised your attorney isn’t working for you.
    Divorce is really hard but once all the dust settles you need to move forward with your life.
    You may not think so now but it does get easier.
    Come on here and vent away, I still do and I’ve been divorced for 14 months.
    It’s something that we never thought we would go thru.
    Good luck and hold your head high!!

    • betrayedchump October 30, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

      Thank you Rachel! It is hard to hold ones head high when it feels like the albatross is tied around your neck but one day the rope will rot away & the stench will fade away also,

  21. Tryinghard October 30, 2014 at 12:32 am #

    Betrayed
    OMG!!!!!!! This had me laughing and sooo feeling for you. How frustrating this must be. I am so sorry that you are still dealing with the aggravation of her.

    Ok I don’t know about divorce but isn’t she defying a gucking court order??? Can’t you simply take the order to the police and ask them to escort you to get your stuff?

    So she’s doing this on purpose. She’s not afraid of you. She wants to get to you and she is. Shes a sadistic bitch!!! No contact. Go to the police. File a suit. Make her miserable but don’t play her game.
    Vent away. Hugs to you:)

    • betrayedchump October 30, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

      Thank you TH! I hope & pray that you NEVER know the NIGHTMARE of divorce it is several thousand ($) times WORSE than the nightmare of betrayal! I was asked if I knew why divorce cost so much money? Because it is worth every penny! However for me I haven’t seen any return on my investment? It is so very HARD to let go of someone you LOVE when they do NOT LOVE you & ALL you want is their LOVE! Cheaters, liars & thieves find cheaters, liars & thieves so hopefully I will find someone to give my heart & my love to once I can heal this festering wound that used to be my loving, trusting, caring heart! AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. Strengthrequired October 30, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    Betrayed, this saddens me to hear that your marriage has ended with divorce. Yet let me tell you, and I want you to hear it and keep reminding yourself of it. You did not need a wife that was not fully committed to you. You deserved to have someone that was able to give you their complete self and complete love. You did n deserve to be treated the way your exw treated you, you do n deserve the continued disrespect she gives you even now. You deserve better, and if she was unable to give you all that you needed from her, then she has given you a favor by letting you go, so that you can find someone that can. You have a whole lot of love to give some lucky lady out there, and that lady will give you all the unconditional love and respect, she will give herself completely, she will give her love cimoletely to you, and you will deserve it.
    Let’s agree right here, that your exw doesn’t deserve you, and you do not deserve her, you deserve way better. I’m sorry to say, but your exw is an idiot, she has let an honourable man go, one that was giving himself cimoletely to her, giving his complete love to her, that to me is an idiot, for any woman to let that go.
    Do get the police to escort you to the house so you can get your belongings. They are yours. Please take care of yourself, and know, you will be happy again, and you will be happier than you have ever been with her. You will see.

    • betrayedchump October 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm #

      Thank you SR,
      My happiness, my self-worth, my self-esteem, my heart, my manhood, my spirit, the core of my soul has been stomped on, torn to pieces, crushed & discarded like the wrapper from a piece of candy.
      The TRUTH is a bitter pill to swallow because there are 3 versions of the truth, mine, hers & God’s. I was NOT the perfect husband, she was not the perfect wife but she WAS mine & she WAS perfect for me!!!!!!!!, I LOVED her for all of her many perfections & few imperfections. I thought she loved me for my few perfections & many imperfections? I worshipped her flesh NOT her complete being, I took her for granted. I let life interfer with OUR relationship/marriage, I stopped romancing her, I stopped comforting, communicating & making her feel safe/protected as I should have. WHY? WHY DID I DO WHAT I DID? This Question HAUNTS me every waking hour & even in my sleep!!!!! The reasons/excuses I did & still do to justify what I did to HURT her & BREAK her heart CANNOT be justified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I am an adult as she is an adult, WE failed to let each other know what each of US wanted, needed, dreamed, desired & required from each other. The disappointment is overwhelming!!!!!!! NOT just mine but hers, OUR Son & his family, her family, my family, OUR friends. her friends, my friends, EVERYONE DISAPPOINTED!
      The BIGGEST disappointment of all is that she did NOT remain TRUE TO HERSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!! She became someone else that I NEVER met in my life, I did NOT know this person that now inhabited the body of the mother of OUR son, my best friend, partner, lover & wife!
      I did NOT give myself completely to her & she did NOT give herself completely to me this much is TRUE!!!!!! The SADDEST part of OUR story is that WE did NOT have to END/DIE!!!!!! Neither one of US died, WE both were still alive, WE were broken but NOT DEAD!!!!! When ONE HALF of US/WE QUITS & REFUSES to TRY to fix, repair, save & renew US/We, US/WE become NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      DIVORCE IS THE ABSOLUTE WORSE PAIN TO ENDURE ON THIS EARTH!!!!!!!
      “It is the little things NOT expectations that make life worth living” JJ GREY
      Peace to all!

      • Strengthrequired November 1, 2014 at 2:51 am #

        Betrayed, no one is perfect. You need to sto beating yourself up over this, you did your best to try and win her back, she thought she wanted different.
        The truth is, as we get into marriage years down the line, life truly does get in the way, my h never romances me, that does not mean I will go and find better. He chose to believe that I did not love him, just as your wife did of you. It does not help situations when there is another person involved, it makes the whole thing so much worse, and harder to prove. Yet you did your best, and you did that for your son. Unfortunately we cannot change the way someone acts towards us, it is hw we treat them that matters, and hopefully would end up rubbing off onto them. I could not control the way my h felt about me, he has to be the one that opened his eyes. Just like your wife, she had to open her eyes to see you.
        Please look after yourself, your sin still needs you.

        • Strengthrequired November 1, 2014 at 2:52 am #

          Sorry betrayed that was supposed to say son, not sin.

        • betrayedchump November 1, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

          SR:
          Thank You! Strength is required to endure, survive & live life during & after Betrayal!
          Strength & Peace to ALL!!!!!!!!!!

  23. Jim November 2, 2014 at 3:02 pm #

    How do you get your betrayed spouse to finally get to the point of no contact? My wife is working on it , seeing a psych Dr. Couple times a week, does not want divorce. She is a victim of her parents divorce and her emotionally abusive father history and finally abandonment from him 20 yrs ago. She wants us to stay together for our kid. She has said “I love you” more in the last two weeks than in all of the last 10 months since the emotional affair started. We are in a much better place than we have been in a long time…. But, the OM is back in Europe working and wont be back for 3-4 months. She didn’t communicate with him for a few months the last time he left but the EA started right back up when he returned in Sept. I feel she is getting a lot out of therapy…. I think she is close to ending it…..so hard to get her to finally end it

  24. Jim November 2, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    Sorry the question is, How do you get the wayward spouse to end it?

    • antiskank November 4, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

      Jim,

      I wish I knew as well. I thought, based on what my CS had told me that he had ended it. It could very well be that the actual contact ended but the admiring from afar and the fantasizing and the building up of the AP to superhuman staus did not.
      After two and a half years, with the last 2 years of it being told that it was over, that he wanted only me, that he fantasized about only me, that he loved only me, wanted only me, despised her, hated what she had done to him, hated what he had done, etc….. Now I find out that he did not love me, continued to lie, was not and is not over her, has spent all of this time doing nothing for our marriage or for me because he has been fantasizing about her, sex with her, the good feelings he could get if he had sex with her. All this, even though there was not a chance in hell that it would actually happen in real life. You don’t continue to fantasize in this way and hold on to the affair high unless you really want to! Only now that I have said I am done and want to move on is he thinking about what he has been doing. He is scrambling to hold on to the house, his life, his family. I don’t believe that I am part of what he wants but who knows.

      I have completely underestimated the depths to which the CS will lower themselves to keep a fantasy alive. The deception, the cruelty, the vindictiveness, the ugly characteristics that come out are beyond my comprehension. I can’t imagine anyone doing these things to any other human or animal, never mind a person that they profess to love!!

      There are just no easy answers, Jim. It sounds like your CS is being reasonably honest about what is going on, not that that makes it any less painful, I’m sure.You can’t do anything to get them to stop. They have to want to. Whether you can wait for that to happen and whether they will be someone you still want to be with if/when that happens is another story. I wish you all the luck in the world. I know how distressing this is. Please take care of yourself first and foremost. As you my have figured out by now, nobody else will!!

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