Is The Cheating Spouse Living With Regret?

cheating spouse

I wonder how many marriages end because of infidelity with the cheating spouse regretting their decisions.

I wonder how many marriages end because of infidelity with the cheating spouse regretting their decisions.  I wonder that once they make that decision, how difficult it is to turn around and admit how wrong they were.

This weekend we met up with some of our old college friends and Doug’s fraternity brothers for a enjoyable night out.  Some of these guys we haven’t seen in over twenty years.  It was fun catching up on everyone’s lives, reliving old antics and feeling twenty again.

For me it was especially enjoyable because I was the only woman there who could completely appreciate all the old college stories because I lived them as well. 

Doug and I met when we were freshman and I was definitely a permanent figure at the fraternity house. I had a feeling of comfort knowing that Doug and I have come so far and lived so much of our lives together.  It was truly a confirmation that having a history together bonds a couple like no other.

It was very disturbing to find out several of the men there are (or have been) divorced, with one being on his third marriage.  I listened intently to all the complications that have developed as a result of divorce.  There’s the switching back and forth of children, trying to move closer to the ex-wife to be closer to the kids, etc.   It was overwhelming to hear how difficult divorce is, and I wonder if they could have looked into the future, would they have tried harder to save the marriage.

I met one woman who was the “friend” of one of Doug’s frat brothers who also is divorced.  As we began talking, I found out that ironically her children attend the same schools and play on the same sports team as our children do. 

We had a lot in common and talked for quite a long time.  She was telling me about how difficult it is being divorced and sharing custody of her children.  She said there isn’t a minute that passes when there isn’t some complication or disturbance as a result of her divorce. 

She then began to tell me how she got into this mess, and sadly it was because of her husband’s affair with a co-worker.  She said that it took her by complete surprise and that she never saw it coming. 

They were going through a difficult time and were very busy working full time, taking care of the kids and tending to her husband’s sick parents.   Her husband found someone who gave him the attention that was lacking at home.  That right there makes me want to scream!

It seems to me that it’s a common thread that for some reason, the cheating spouse thinks that the other person cares more for them than his own spouse does.  I firmly believe that it is usually not the case.  It’s just that there isn’t enough time, opportunity or energy to give the spouse as much attention as in the past due to all the stuff that life throws at us.  But the poor little deprived spouse isn’t getting enough attention, so they wander to the arms of another person.

OK, sorry about that, I had to vent a little.  Getting back to this woman…

It has been six years since this marital affair took place and I could still see the pain and anguish in her eyes.  Her story made me so angry because it represents how selfish affairs are.  I wonder if her husband ever looked past the moment to see the future and what a mess he was creating. His children will never again experience a life that is secure and normal.  There will always be some kind of drama because of the affair.

This woman told me that she is not even sure he is still with his affair partner, as the OW is still married and it is a subject that they do not bring up.  The only thing they talk about is the logistics of raising their kids.

How sad to be so close to someone and spend a majority of your life together and this is the end result. They probably share more feelings and emotions with a complete stranger than they do with their ex-spouse.

I wonder how many marriages end because of infidelity with the cheating spouse regretting their decisions.  I wonder that once they make that decision, how difficult it is to turn around and admit how wrong they were

I have to think that rarely is the other person worth giving everything up for.  The cheating spouse is giving up their family, friends, home, their past, their assets, and almost everything in their life for this other person, who in many cases they hardly even know.  Can that one person fill all those spaces in their life and make them happy?  That is a large responsibility to put on one person.

It is different when a person is eighteen and has their whole life ahead of them.  When they are fifty and have so much history behind them, it is difficult for the cheating spouse to start again from scratch after the affair.  We have a lot of baggage to carry along with us as we grow older and to give everything up like it didn’t exist would be virtually impossible.

 

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95 Responses to Is The Cheating Spouse Living With Regret?

  1. Jennifer August 23, 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    This topic pulls at my heartstrings. It scares me because I have seen my husband in tears about how he worries that our kids don’t realize how much he loves them. I worry that he is only staying with me for “appearances” towards the kids. (They are 6 and 7.) I worry that this is the way it will be forever and he will continue to go out with his buddies and have affairs and then come home and “play house” in front of the kids. The only one that hurts is me.
    Today is our 8th anniversary and I’m not sure how to handle it. I did buy him something. Not sure if I should have. I don’t even know how to act towards him today. Do I tell him I love him or do I back off and not make him uncomfortable? Maybe I should celebrate the 8 years of my own accomplishment in keeping this marriage working, 8 years of loving him no matter the cost. Ugh. I hope today passes quickly.

    • Attraversiamo August 31, 2011 at 11:16 am #

      Is your relationship with your husband better today?

  2. ppl August 23, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    i hope not. although it may give satisfaction to feel “guilty party” is forever regretting decisions, i would sincerely hope all can get to a better place. nobody would condone “war of roses” and destructive behavior. jealousy would seem to be worst reason to stay together. thougjt of spouse with someone else makes it seem like a “game” that one doesnt want to lose. the one i would like to see without regret is the “wronged spouse”. we all need to make decisions. whether time or finality of situation, many dont regret decision. the old joke of :
    why is divoirce so expensive… because its worth it.
    sometimes must be true

  3. NotBroken August 23, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    I think the cheating spouse will only regret their decision if they lose something because of it. I don’t think the cheating spouse regrets cheating if the wife/husband decides to stay and work on the marriage. Because if they don’t divorce…. then what did they really lose? Nothing. Sure they created a problem and will have arguments, but in the end they win. They cheat and have fun… and as a result end up with a better marriage than they had before. For them it’s a win win situation, and for us betrayed spouses we suffer and lose everything. I’ve lost my sanity and my sense of security. I’ve lost everything I thought I had. My H lost nothing. I’m here the kids are here. What did he lose?

    • Jennifer August 23, 2010 at 4:42 pm #

      Good point, NotBroken. However, I feel like I have GAINED in this situation. Gained a better sense of myself and what I need and also what I’m putting out there. I’ve spent a lot of lonely hours crying and moping, but after I got all of that out of me, I started reading up and finding sites like this one and DEFINING MYSELF. It has been a growing experience for me whether we divorce or not. And for that tiny little fact, I can be thankful. I improved ME.

    • jackie September 19, 2011 at 10:39 am #

      If it was an affair of the heart, the other woman loses as well. She loses the man of her dreams, who stays in his marriage (better or worse), and ends up alone.

      And imagine a man who makes his marriage better at the other woman’s expense?

      Betrayed spouses always give a lot of heat to the other woman. But it was the husband who betrayed her, not the other woman. No one thinks about the other woman’s point of view. We all want to be loved and everyone makes unwise choices when they are in love. I don’t think any other woman intends to hurt the wife. I think it is more about HIM. But betrayed spouses are so angry (rightfully so) that they take out all their anger on the other woman.

      • Jackie September 19, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

        Hmm, another jackie,

        You said:

        “Betrayed spouses always give a lot of heat to the other woman. But it was the husband who betrayed her, not the other woman. No one thinks about the other woman’s point of view. We all want to be loved and everyone makes unwise choices when they are in love. I don’t think any other woman intends to hurt the wife.”

        I agree with you that everyone hurts due to affairs, but I don’t agree that the other woman doesn’t intend to hurt the wife. Just by joining the H in the affair, the OW is hurting the wife and the family. Maybe the H made advances to the OW, which was also wrong, but the OW made the “unwise” choice to have the affair. In this way, the OW too has betrayed the wife and kids. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Once you realize your unwise choice, it is time to make the right choices, make amends, and learn from your mistake.

        Perhaps you did not intend to hurt the wife. Perhaps you were not thinking. That “in love” feeling is a powerful force of Mother nature. But we humans aren’t animals. We have a rational brain that tells us something is right and something is wrong. People in affairs know something is wrong, which is why they to try to keep it secret. People in affairs also choose to ignore their rational side, they succumb to the positive drug-like feeling that the affair gives them.

        Put yourself in the wife’s place for just a moment. Imagine you are married, working hard, supporting your husband and kids in every way you can. You love your H, but life has gotten a bit dull and routine, filled with endless chores…groceries, maintaining the house, driving the kids to school and activities…hectic. Then out of the blue, your husband starts to act distant. Then he tells you, “I love you, but I’m” in love” with another woman.” How does that make you feel? To me it felt just how I felt when my Mom died. My world crumbled around me.

        If you were to put yourself in the wife’s shoe, maybe you might try to understand what you have done wrong. Most people involved in affairs are usually not bad people. They are naïve at best, weak in will power, generally selfish, and cruel and heartless at worst. It is not my intent to insult you. I have no ill will towards the OW in my H emotional affair. In my H’s case, she did the right thing. She told my H , “ What you are doing is wrong.” The OW refused to participate further, even though my H wanted more. This is what you needed to do. That is ended it before it got started. Kept a distance.

        Unfortunately, many people only see their own needs first…it doesn’t matter who they hurt, as long as they get what they want. This is called “selfish.”

        Getting involved with someone who is married is “WRONG”. It is just as wrong as the H is for getting emotionally involved with the OP, instead of working out the issues with his wife. He is running away from the issues, has given up trying. He owes it to his wife, marriage, and kids to try to work on the issues at home. The CS promised to his spouse in his marriage vow, in front of many family and friends that he would, “Promise to love, honor and cherish…till death do us part.” Having an affair is none of these things.

        Many people get involved in affairs during times of stress, crisis, because of fear…so many reasons. The proper way to deal with a unhappy marriage, is to do everything to resolve the problems of the marriage, with time spent, counseling, talking, working out issues…not escaping in a fantasy affair. Affairs hurt everyone, including the OP. That is why no one should get involved in affair, including the OM/OW. If the marriage is truly over, end it properly. Then go ahead and find another relationship. Having two relationships at once is a recipe for disaster, pain, and hurt.

        Yes, we all want to be loved. Love with two unattached single people is a beautiful thing. Getting emotionally involved with a person already in a committed relationship is a destructive thing, causing much confusion and pain to everyone involved. When you get involved with a married person, you are helping to destroy his spouse and his family.

        Sorry this is so long, but recovery from an affair is even more of a long drawn, out painful process.

        • Jackie September 20, 2011 at 6:55 am #

          Not all betrayed spouses are by their husband’s sides, supporting their husbands needs, taking care of the family doing endless chores. Some wives are sitting back and letting their husband’s fill both the wife/mother role, and husband/father role.

          At this point, the man should step up and express his discontent. That is the proper way to handle any relationship because it is honest. But sometimes, being honest isn’t easy due to the temperaments of the people involved. If a person is difficult to talk to, and histrionic, it is a deterrent to communication. Some men are afraid of their wives.

          I agree that it is a selfish act between the affair partners. But, to diminish the idea that perhaps the betrayed spouse also contributed to the situation is naive. Many betrayed spouses sense their marriage is going off course long before an affair starts but chose to do nothing about it. I KNOW when something is going off course when I’m in a relationship and I work to fix it. I don’t wait for something to happen before I wake up.

          The OW may have participated in a selfish act, but it most cases is wasn’t a willful act to hurt the wife. If it were, they would go out of their way to make sure the wife found out, they would rub it in her face.

          In my case, I went out of my way to make sure she didn’t find out. He said he was going to leave and gave me a lot of supporting evidence to be credible that this is what he intended to do and was serious about it. I gave him many exits which he didn’t take.

          I didn’t want her EVER to find out about us, because their marriage was broken long before I got there, and as far as I was concerned, the demise of it, had nothing to do with me. I wanted him to leave because it was abusive to him, because he was miserable, not because of ME. (He and I were friends for many years before we got involved. I had some first hand knowledge of what the truth of the situation was. He knew my former husband also, before I divorced him. I had the strength to leave an abusive situation.) He didn’t come to me because he was bored. He came to me because I was easy to talk to, and because I allowed him to be free to be himself. While the sex was stellar, it wasn’t about sex for us. It was about friendship.

          And when she found out about us, all the issues that were on the table suddenly became about me, rather than the real issues. She cursed me out and said some nasty things to me. I took it because I didn’t want to cause her any more pain and figured I would give her her day. I understood her hurt.

          And then out of nowhere, he stayed to try to work it out with her, after he said things could not be worked out because she would have to change too much of her innate temperment to make it work. I left him alone hoping he would see the error in his ways. Her response, was to harass me. She continues to harass me, after more than three years, even though I’m NOT involved with him at all, and have no contact with him. It seems like every time they have an argument, it must be my fault.

          It was a really devastating situation for me, and she won’t let it go. It hardly seems right that I am the focus of their ongoing maritial battle. The mistake is trying to put lipstick on a pig, to try to make an abusive situation work, which is what he is trying to do.

          While I agree with almost everything you said about honesty and integrity and how the betrayed spouse must feel, you gotta understand something.

          Not everyone is emotionally sound. You have three people in the equation. What oughta be is largely about how emotionally stable a person is. People have wounds, they have emotional codependencies. Having willpower isn’t just about saying no. It can go much deeper. All three people in the triad have to be emotionally stable in order to not get entangled in the first place. People discount how emotionally screwed up people can be. And the reality is, people who are very high functioning in other parts of their life can be extremely screwed up in other areas. You would never know it unless you get close to them. They put on a show off perfect lives in front of strangers. What goes on behind closed doors is something else.

          For my part, my ex-OM was one of those guys. He continues to work at a relationship I KNOW makes him miserable. On the few occasions I run into him at Walmart, I can see it in his eyes. (I know him very well.) He continues to be afraid of his wife, and having been the subject her non-stop harassment for years, I understand why he feels that way. Of course, bullies don’t get put down until people stop enabling bad behavior.

          PS: I have been the betrayed spouse too. I can honestly say, this betrayal, by the OM hurt me worse than my husband’s philandering. You can’t really know this unless you have been on both sides. And you certainly can’t stroke a broad brush over every situuation. Life can be complicated and messy.

          • Jackie September 20, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

            “What oughta be is largely about how emotionally stable a person is. ”

            Again I agree with you in many areas. As I said before, every relationship is different, and people go into affairs for different reasons.

            Emotions are the cause of all the volatility involved in relationships in general. Affairs are definitely lacking in the individual’s emotional stability…that is not being in touch with one’s emotions, understanding them, and not letting emotions take control of what you believe in.

            I have no doubt that your OM was suffering, but it isn’t always because of the wife, even though he says it is. Many people in affairs rationalize the affair by blaming the BS, it lessens the guilt and shame, and provides an easy scapegoat and defense for the CS bizarre behavior. Once the feeling of being, “in love” takes over, it becomes more like an addiction, and the CS and OP both must deal with how to stop the addiction to each other.

            You can’t always believe what a CS says to you. Remember he is cheating on his spouse. He is breaking a promise he made to himself and his spouse. It isn’t necessarily that he is lying to you, but more that he is lying to himself, rationalizing, escaping. I’m not sure if your ex H did this to you also.

            I love my H with all my heart and would have done almost anything for him. Before the affair, H was depressed and unhappy, and the affair gave him a wonderful high. I’m sure my H was saying to the OW that I didn’t understand him, or that I was verbally abusive, cause that was what he was suddenly telling me. In all our life together, over 20 years, he had never said such words. I had no idea why he was saying them suddenly. I’m not sure if your ex H did this to you also.

            The OW definitely understood his work better, cause she worked with him in his field. As for verbally abusive, H gets upset when I ask him to clean up dishes instead of leaving them around. Any small criticism I made during the affair was considered as me being verbally abusive. And I have to say I rarely criticized. Yes, my H was sick, depressed, and not thinking straight “in love”.

            Many CS have been going through crisis such as overwork, depression, family illness, loss of work, etc…causing major pain and breakdown between spouses. I suppose many OP also have their own emotional problems also. So basically and affair is a relationship between two people who both have emotional problems. I suppose this is why so many affairs fail.

            You said, “All three people in the triad have to be emotionally stable in order to not get entangled in the first place. People discount how emotionally screwed up people can be. And the reality is, people who are very high functioning in other parts of their life can be extremely screwed up in other areas. ”

            I believe you are so right in this area, and that this is one of the main reasons people get involved in affairs. These people really need help with their emotional issues, but instead choose to escape in an affair, rather than work out their real issues the way they should. So if you know you are emotionally screwed up…get help!

            I know this is easier said than done. My H who knows he has emotional issues, won’t seek outside help and won’t talk about it. He might read an occasional book though. Mostly he insist on figure it out himself. He is better, but it is a much longer drawn out process. He improved so much faster when he was going to counseling for a short while.

            I am really sorry for you also. I know you hurt too, and didn’t mean to help cause all this damage. But it is the BS who really gets hurt the most though, because he/she never chose to cheat and has to figure out how to deal with the mess that the CS has created. You must have felt that way when your ex cheated on you.

            Even if the BS was an abuser, cheater, gambler, it is up to the CS to work on fixing the marriage or leaving it the proper way, divorce. Having an affair doesn’t solve the marriage problem. It makes things worst. It adds a new problem to solve in addition to all the other problems. An affair is the cowards way out, if the purpose was to end the marriage.

            For most CS though , it seems the affair was caused by the CS allowing his emotions control his actions, instead of his rational mind keeping things under control. I suppose that is why affairs are a fantasy. All reality and rational thinking is pushed aside to allow the affair to continue.

            One thing I have learned from all this pain and sorrow is, “Never get emotionally involved with a married or unavailable person. And if you are married, you have no business getting emotionally involved with another person who isn’t your spouse.” It is not worth the time or emotional pain, caused to everyone involved, including the OP.

            I wish you well in your healing and learning from this experience. I know you are not a bad person. I also know you, as well as I, will continue to grow and learn from this painful experience. Because when you thing of it, the best gift from all this pain is the lessons we can learn from it.

            Heal from this pain, grow from the lessons you have learned, and find a love who is available who can love you fully in return.

            From personal experience, one of the most important lessons I have learned since childhood was always take care of your health both physically and mentally because if you don’t, you will have to live with the consequences of the illness for the rest of your life. And that your illness will cause pain and suffering to you and all who love you and care about you.

            Sorry this is long again. I find that sharing our insights and perspectives to be very good healing process.

          • B December 1, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

            Ever think that this man was lying to you about who and how his wife was. That’s how it works sometimes. He has already shown you he is a dishonest and deceptive person by having an affair behind his wife’s back. These men lie to their wives and they lie to you too. Many times they tell you things to gain your sympathy as that creates a very powerful connection and emotions. This strokes their fragile egos and they just lap it up. You don’t live with them and see the true person they are. Of course they are charming for the few hours you see each other, anyone can be charming when they are lying and pumping themselves up, and spending money on you and trying to impress you. You do NOT know his wife, all you know are the lies he tells you, and believe me HE IS LYING TO YOU TOO! Wake up and get that if you don’t get anything else. She obviously was not as horrible as he told you since he finally woke up and realized what he could possibly lose. That tells you something. These guys lie to get what they want, they want their cake and to eat it too. They lie all the way around, period!

          • Tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 11:11 am #

            The only thing you “know” is what he told you. You want to believe he is miserable. Sorry to say I doubt it. Since there’s been no contact sounds to me like his misery came from his relationship he had with you.

        • Gizfield May 21, 2012 at 10:40 am #

          I love the way that Other Women believe everything some one else’s husband tells them. Really? He is a known liar. Lol At least his wife can admit it. they tell you all about how horrible their life is, yet they stay. And the reason??? Because they want to.

      • Jackie September 19, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

        “And imagine a man who makes his marriage better at the other woman’s expense?”

        Yes, I also agree to this too! As I said, the H was wrong to make advances in the first place! But two wrongs don’t make a right. The pain you feel is because you got involved with a man you knew was (unavailable) married. Your response to his advances, no matter how wonderful it made you feel, should be, “I don’t get involved with married men.”

        • Tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 11:22 am #

          I doubt he was the only one making the advances! I’m sure she made sure he knew she was a willing participant. It takes two and she played her role in the deception. The wife knows about his deception and she is placing the other half of the blame where it rightfully belongs. She bought into his justifications for his bad behavior. I feel sorry for these pathetic OW. They buy I to the stories lies and fantasies these selfish boys tell them. Too bad. In the end they are the ones who have to look at their own sad dumped pathetic faces in the mirrors and know they too were taken for a foo used and tossed aside when these men were finished with them.

      • Jackie September 19, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

        “But betrayed spouses are so angry (rightfully so) that they take out all their anger on the other woman.”

        You are also right about this line. It is so much easier to blame the OP. It is hard to blame the one you love for hurting you. It is so much easier to blame someone else, when actually the blame falls equally on both cheater and other person. Each has the control to end the affair directly, the spouse can only end the affair indirectly.

      • Tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 11:02 am #

        I hope you get married. I hope you trust implicitly. I hope you love unconditionally. I hope he betrays you with someone else. I hope you learn what empathy means.

  4. ppl August 23, 2010 at 4:04 pm #

    your respect. hopefully you havent lost your own self respect.

  5. Jeffrey Murrah August 23, 2010 at 5:33 pm #

    Linda,

    Let me see if I understand your questions: “How many marriages end because of infidelity with the cheating spouse regretting their decisions?”

    This is an unanswerable question. Although you can find the numbers for divorce where infidelity is given for the reason, that does not indicate how many regret that choice. What I can tell you is that at least 15% of the people who divorce their spouse after an affair don’t regret their actions in terms of thinking they did anything wrong. That is about the number of people who function with little or no conscience. Another group are those who are using the affair as a passive way out of the marriage. For them, they only consider their immediate emotional state. They do not consider how their actions impact others. Beyond that is all a matter of speculation.

    You other question, “Once a cheating spouse makes that decision (I am not sure if this is the decision to cheat or the decision to stay together?) , how difficult it is to turn around and admit how wrong they were?” It all depends on how much pride they have and how strong their moral convictions are.

    A question in my mind is “What is the purpose of marriage?” How people answer this question determines a lot. It identifies what they see as their options. It determines what they will and won’t feel guilty about.

    If their answer is that it is about enjoying a life together. When they cease enjoying that life, then marriage has outlived its usefulness for them.

    If they say marriage as a way to indulge in sexual relations without conviction, then when the opportunity comes up for them to get their jollies and not get caught, they jump at the the chance.

    If they see the purpose of the marriage to raise good children and strong families, they will view their options differently.

  6. NotBroken August 23, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    Jennifer… your right I did improve myself, and my outlook on life is more mature now. I’m not like a child living some fantasy.
    Ppl… He did lose my respect.

  7. michael's wife August 23, 2010 at 7:13 pm #

    I live with regrets everyday, every minute, I have been trying to ask myself how I could have done this to my loving husband to my family. I thank god everyday that my husband has continued to stay with me. He has also tried to help in so many ways. I don’t believe that I deserve him, sometimes I think that is the reason for the EA. I really don’t know the why, but I’m trying to work through that.

    • Doug August 24, 2010 at 10:00 am #

      Michael’s wife, Often times the betrayer suffers in silence, afraid to talk about their feelings because they feel they have to be the strong one. I know that if Doug would have told me how much he regretted the affair and how terrible he felt and the feelings he was experiencing it would have helped me move on. Often times the spouse sees the pain and silence as a sign they are still thinking about their affair partner, little do we know that they may be feeling shameful, guilty or undeserving. I believe the most important thing you can do for your marriage is be honest with your feelings and trust that your husband will listen. He has proven that he wants your marriage to work, try to trust him and open up yourself to him. Linda

  8. neko September 15, 2010 at 3:16 am #

    I’m young, not close to 50 but not a teen.
    I’ve ‘still got my whole life ahead’ of me, but the pain caused by an abusive spouse isn’t any less. Of course it doesn’t start off abusive – the honeymoon phase does came to a halt, however he gave up completely – and without telling me (the affair). I made it crystal clear that if he were unhappy or wanted us to part – i’d respect that, he didn’t want me to carry on with my life aka have closure hence doing the dirty behind my back, whilst i was at home cooking his meals.
    My other half deceived me for a whole year, sure we didn’t have kids, however his ‘reasons’ or rather excuses were the same to the ones mentioned above. He was spoilt rotten, selfish and abusive(emotionally, psychologically and eventually physically) . He was a narcissist. I couldn’t see the abuse for what it was at the time – who ever really does?
    By that time he’d managed to isolate me from friends and family – was in a foreign country, hardly spoke the language.
    I couldn’t have been more reasonable, then again it takes two to make a relationship work. Trust is the basis of any relationship, at the time i trusted him to be a decent human being. It was a game to him of power and control.
    No love. I eventually found the strength to leave him, once i realised he was abusing me. This realisation came once i had secretly reconnected with my family and friends online.
    To this day he tries to torment me indirectly- in new ways (for narcissists are master manipulators) in an attempt to reel me back into his destructive world.
    Is he trying to reel me back in due to regret? hell no. He’s still with that other sorry excuse for a human being (they deserve one another) it’s just for his sick sadistic satisfaction.
    To regret, to apologise would mean him admitting that he was wrong. That will never happen. He blamed me till the very day i moved. I’ve never looked back. Never broke my word of never speaking to him ever again. We’ll have to see one another at a certain institution due to circumstance and although it may be tough, it’ll be bearable and part of the mending process.
    He gave up on us, but i’ll never give up on myself.

  9. Dawn October 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm #

    Just for a second the other day I was thankful that I was cheated on and not the cheater. I was trying to think how I could live in my relationship if I had done what was done to me and I do not think I could live with it. Then I thought, no, being cheated on sucks, but it was just a thought.

    • Doug November 2, 2010 at 10:16 am #

      Dawn, interesting stance on that. As the cheater, I believe that the regret and guilt is tough to bare, but nothing compared to the hurt that the victim feels.

  10. Jackie February 12, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

    Dawn,
    The cheater must live with the fact that he cheated on his spouse, and kids if he had any. The betrayed must live with the idea that this can happen again if the cheater doesn’t learn anything from the affair and cheating. The cheater betrayed him/herself, and what he used to believe in, to give himself the good feeling of having a fantasy affair.

    We all get hurt from the betrayal. The best we can do is learn and grow from it.

  11. Elemen May 17, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    As a spouse that cheated and chose to separate, I can tell you definitely there isn’t a day now for 2 yrs I don’t regret my actions. Mine is a double-edged sword in that my husband also cheated on me. That came out later though, when we confessed to eachother. He had already filed for divorce by the time we told eachother. And we tried to reconcile but ultimately he wanted to divorce and said there was too much damage/not much to salvage. I was still open to reconciling w/ him.
    So I can tell everyone here: yes, some spouses that cheated regret it horribly. It is by far my worst regret in life. It’s #1. And eventhough I couldn’t save my marriage I learned some major life lessons and one is that I will never ever cheat again. It was NOT worth it. Please note: I did not leave my husband to be with the OM. In fact, I barely spoke to OM after separating from my husband and soon after cut off all contact.
    Affairs are ugly and devastating & although my H wanted to divorce, I will always regret the way we cheated on eachother in the end…we were so close to separating and should have just separated before involving third parties…

  12. StealthGenie July 13, 2011 at 10:04 am #

    I wonder the other person really worth a try to give a second chance or it is just a fake excuse to relax your heart apparently and temporarily. Decisions must be made keeping in view their consequences, emotional and sentimental people often end their lives with guilt overpowering their lives. To avoid such hazardous times, I think precautions are better and one such could be installation of a spying software in their mobile phones to remove the evils the moment they start appearing.

  13. Gayle August 4, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    I am the cheater and regret deeply that I have done so. My then husband was miserable and said his life was “sucky” all the time. I took it as since I was a part of that life..well I must suck too. In reality..he was miserable because he thought I wasn’t happy and was trying everything he could to make me happy..so he sacrified his own happines. I couldn’t talk to him..didnt’ want to go to him for comfort..because all I heard was life was sucky. I called him once and asked if we could start to have date nights..I felt like I was starting to faulter in our relationship..he said he didn’t think it was necessary. I thought he was done..so I shut down myself. I was contacted on facebook by an old classmate. Talking with him he tugged at my emotional strings. I quickly started to lie, sneak around, send this old classmate money to help him out and then eventually made up a story on why I had to drive 5 hours away to go see him and have sex with him. At first I didnt’ feel guilty..cause it was a temporary high. When my ex figured out what was going on..he wanted to die. I can still hear nights of him wailing and crying out to me that he can’t move..he can’t breathe..he wants to die. I couldnt’ reach out to him. I was frozen.
    Here it is 2 years later and just now I am starting to see the effects of my actions on my family, my ex husband and the fact that I only have 1/2 of my childrens lives to me since we have 50/50. I am devasted I gave up so much. A man that would have done anything if I would have just opened up more and said I think we are in trouble and need help. I suffered in my own hell then..and I am still suffering now.

  14. Dawn September 20, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    Dear Jackie the OW who posted September 20th. Looks like you were fed the line every OW has been fed, the wife is horrible. Then the Husband realizes that he actually loves the woman he married and has a life with and that the pig he was putting lipstick on was you.

    • Tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

      Dawn. Lol. Good point on the pig to whom lipstick was being put on!

  15. jackie September 30, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    @Dawn The husband never said he didn’t love his wife. He said that the situation was a lost cause, and that they were too different, too incompatible to bridge the gap. That’s a very different thing.

    I loved my ex-h. I also knew that he was too broken to continue to be part of my life, so I divorced him. It was the healthy thing to do. Love simply isn’t enough to have a healthy relationship.

    @responsetoJackie(me) [Something weird in the way this board works]

    I stated before. We were friends for many years before our affair started. So I can only assume what he had to say was me was truth, and not a “setup” to get me in his bed.

    A lot of what he described in his marriage was described in a matter of fact way. He didn’t describe it as abuse. But when I heard it, clearly it was abusive. Subtle tactics such as: isolating him from outside influences, dominating all of his free time with honey-do lists (when I know he spent the majority of his weekends doing stuff around the house or doing stuff for her endless number of extended family. I saw the proof in these things because he used to post photos of his project on facebook and post tons of facebook statuses about that over the many years.) Those lists would keep him from doing any of the personal things he wanted to do for himself. He NEVER had any alone time.

    She would tell him what to wear, disallow whole families of food in their household (because she didn’t like the taste of them, no one else was allowed to have it). When she got angry with him, she would spend days ignoring him. She would make really snide degrading comments about him on facebook.

    He would say terrible things about himself and I would ask him why he thought those things and he would say, “no reason”. Then I would dig deeper and he would admit “someone” said that about him, but never would say who it was.

    A lot of time he would talk about things, vacations, activities, and I would say, “you don’t sound like you had fun” or “you don’t sound like you want to do that”. His response was always, “she had fun” or “this is what she wants to do”. So he would never complain and say, “I don’t want to do this”. In fact, he never said he was unhappy, until we actually got deeply involved in an emotional affair. He simply stated things as if this is how things are, with a cold detachment as if he wasn’t part of the whole thing, but an observer.

    Only a few things he would complain about, usually things about the kids where he wanted to engage them in more enriching activities and she would dismiss his suggestions as being unnecessary.

    And over time, being his friend, I dug and realized that he likes keeping the peace over all else and I encouraged him to speak up more about what he wants and needs and stop being so wishy washy.

    So I do believe he was honest about the situation. I haven’t detailed all the other behaviors. None of the behaviors seem so bad on the surface. But when you detail them all together, there is clearly a pattern of controlling and manipulative behaviors. To this day, he has never admitted that they were abuse when clearly, a description of the behaviors (which I haven’t provided in enough details to make the case) IS an abusive situation.

    This is what happens to people who are accustomed to having their needs steam-rolled for many years. They are not able to even see how much they are being abused.

    But when I see him, he looks different. There is no twinkle in his eye. His posture has changed. He looks beaten down. Our mutual friends say that he no longer speaks to anyone and has withdrawn from all of his friendships.

    As far as I am concerned, I got out of a marriage that was very bad for me, but this experience was far worse because the betrayal of what was promised, and even the betrayal of our emotional connection, the mutual respect, the mutual trust was epic. No one has ever hurt me this badly, not EVEN my philandering husband.

    While I was definitely not in my right mind by getting involved with an unavailable man and have learned a great deal of myself afterward, I did not ever dream that someone that was closer than family would betray me like this. It isn’t just the trying to work things out at home, but the complete lack of acknowledgement of the damage he did to me by bringing me into this on such a deep level. (Promises of growing old together etc.)

    In a marriage where there is a betrayal, when the spouse chooses to work on it, there is a lot of mending to be done, and it takes time. But at least the cheater admits to their errors and tries to make amends. To the OW, dropping her like a hot potato. It’s like divorcing your spouse without even having a conversation and then simply disappearing. Just try to imagine that. It really doesn’t matter if the person was unavailable to begin with, the simple fact was a serious emotional bond was formed and every human being, no matter how flawed and how erroneous their decision was, deserves respect and validation, especially when they were i a serious relationship.

    • Jackie September 30, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

      I had to also address this line of yours:
      “It really doesn’t matter if the person was unavailable to begin with, the simple fact was a serious emotional bond was formed and every human being, no matter how flawed and how erroneous their decision was, deserves respect and validation, especially when they were i a serious relationship.”

      You are right in this, and this should say something of the kind of person you are dealing with. Like many here, the CS has some character flaws. First he is cheating on his wife and family, getting involved with someone outside his marriage. He is clearly not working on his issues. You are right you deserve more as any decent human does deserve. What he should say to you is, “I’m sorry I hurt you. I didn’t mean to. I never should have let it go this far. I wasn’t thinking straight.”

      Did you notice how these are the same words he needs to say to his spouse and he may never be able to say even to someone he has been with for decades? This is why he also can’t say it to you. Be lucky if you ever hear anything that resembles, “I’m sorry for hurting you.”

      I’m sure he is sorry…he just has trouble admitting his mistakes and faults. This is the type of man the wife has been living with and accepting for years.

      If it is any comfort, please take my quotes of apologies as if they were truly said to you by the CS. Believe them. I’m sure they are as true as he would have said them. He just has trouble saying these words to anyone…including himself.

      Heal, learn and grow stronger.

    • B December 1, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

      You being dropped like a hot potato is what you deserved. You now have to feel the heartbreak you caused his wife. There is something called KARMA.

      • Jackie December 2, 2012 at 8:55 am #

        It’s been years since we’ve been together but I do run into him on occasion. He is still married, and still unhappy. He looks like a different person. He has aged in an unflattering way. He looks worn out and defeated, has no bounce in his step, no twinkle in his eye.

        We spoke and I asked him if he was happy in his life. He admitted his isn’t. I asked if he was in love. He admitted that he only stayed for the kids. The expression on my face was enough for him to fall over himself and strongly state that it is his life and his choices to make. (It is, and he is a coward.)

        I am sad for him because he has chosen to play make believe for his kids. It’s not good for anyone involved including the kids. He thinks they won’t know, but they will eventually and he condemns them to do the same with their lives giving them a good role model about loyalty but a terrible role model about self-love.

        I feel sorry for his wife. I wouldn’t want a man to stay with me simply because I am the mother of his kids. It might feel good to have someone go through the motions, pretending to love me, but on some level, I would know in my heart that it is fake. And I would forever feel insecure, and look over my shoulder, walk on egg shells. That’s no way to live.

        He told me he was never in love with her, never attracted to her. (She doesn’t have a sexy bone in her body, even though she has a very pretty face.) She chose him and he feels obliged to stay for the kids. What a horrible way to keep a man in ones life? I can think of no reason why he would lie at this point. He has nothing to gain because he knows he has lost me and my respect forever. I can’t love a person who doesn’t have enough courage to follow his heart, if not with me, at least not to live a pretend life.

        Yes, his character flaws surprised me and out of the three of us, I am the luckiest of all. I lost the guy, but gained a new sense of self-worth. I won’t be making mistakes like that again. Perhaps he wasn’t worth keeping to begin with. He remains with her, and the two of them remain in a pretend marriage, both, not truly happy. I get to live the rest of my life in pursuit of true happiness, and they spend theirs on a treadmill looking good to the neighbors but fooling no one. (People do talk behind their back and anyone paying attention to the details sees that nothing has changed.) Truly sad.

        • Surviving December 2, 2012 at 6:17 pm #

          Jackie,
          It’s possible he isn’t truthful to you as much as you may think he’s being honest he prob isn’t.
          As for staying for the kids I gather you don’t have any. Once they are born and your holding this life you made and feel that unconditional love you know at that moment you would give your life up for them.
          If he wanted to leave he would.

        • justbecause December 3, 2012 at 10:59 am #

          Jackie, It seems to me that you are trying to rationalize your affair with a married man. I think it would be hard to be objective in your situation. Seeing things as you do may be a way of self-preservation, of allaying guilt, of not fully admitting to a tragic, horrible deed.

          I agree with Surviving. Jackie, you don’t know everything. You know or perceive what the CS wants you to.

          I have had limited contact with the OW since my D-day. The part that bothers me the most about the cow is her inability to admit she was wrong, that she engaged in the EA in part due to her emotional issues. She did not know my H or our situation at all – despite 20 months of conversing online.

          When at first your practice to deceive . . .

        • Ken April 14, 2014 at 6:17 pm #

          Don’t’ pity the wife. Just like the wife we have reasons to stay temporarily, I really really want to separate with him. I caught my H cheating too. I offered him a divorce but he wants to stay. We agreed that he will stay, but i won’t care for him or i’ll ignore him. I dont love him anymore since he hurt my feelings. I wish to be happy and planned my life in the future without him. I ignores him whenever he’s in the house. I don’t care about him anymore. The only thing i stayed with him is just to prepare myself in the future and get a license in my chosen profession. After that, we will leave him. I don’t want a cheater, liar, betrayer in my life. he’ll just poison my good dispositions in life.

    • Carly October 12, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

      You are making me feel waves of nausea again, I want to vomit, Yes, you are making me sick, AGAIN.

      The truth is you know NOTHING about his marriage.

      And comparing your pain to a dumped, faithful, long term, cheated on wife with young children….disgusting.

      You asked for your pain. Read Anna Karenina.

  16. Jackie September 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    Hi again other jackie,
    I see and feel your pain. Interesting, I could see my loving H say all these things to you and how you may have grown to think that his wife was abusive. I agree with you that in a sense, he was a broken man when he met the OW. But he wasn’t necessarily broken because of the marriage or wife, more so it was how his life had become unbalanced and unfulfilling. In my case, my H was depressed and over worked. Yes, he has been unhappy lately, and being with the OW gave him a kind of high, giving him an ego boost, when life seemed to be all work, no play. But it was a fantasy. He was living in fantasy, running away from all his troubles, cause he didn’t know how to fix them.

    The feeling of an infatuation, affair, or being “in love”…is highly addictive. It gives one a high, drug like feeling. It is not a rational feeling but pure emotional (chemical).Yes it feels good, but at what cost. He has dropped you as he has, because he realizes what damage he has done to his marriage, family and everyone who believed and trusted him. He likely realizes that he made a mistake, and can’t believe what he has done. Now he is angry at himself, ashamed that he could have done such a horrible thing to his family, marriage and all of those who loved him. He let everyone down including himself, for a fantasy. He has lied, cheated, and has become someone he never imagined he could become.

    Understand, my H doesn’t often give his opinion on what he wants to do or where he wants to go. He chooses to defer to me or the kids, saying it doesn’t matter. I believe him when he says this, because I believe he will tell me if he doesn’t like something or would rather do something else. As in any adult, it is his responsibility to communicate his wishes, otherwise I will have no clue he doesn’t like something. To me his opinion matters very much and I respond as much as I can to his needs and desires. He knows this, and says sometimes that is why he doesn’t ask, because he knows I would likely make an effort to please him.

    I can see how you may have interpreted his unhappiness as his wife being abusive, when it really was him not voicing or communicating his wants. Like many men in relationships, many H choose a passive role in the workings of the relationship. H think that it is the wife’s job to make him happy, not his own. It takes two to make a relationship work. You must have seen this in your previous marriage.

    My H said this early on in the EA, “I don’t know why I am doing this. I have everything I could ask for here!”

    So what about you, the OW? Yes, you too got hurt by the affair. Now you feel abandoned after all he had said and done with you. That is why one should never get involved with a married person. They are NOT AVALIABLE! They have promised their spouse to love, honor them, until death do they part. If the CS were so unhappy in the relationship in the first place, they need to end it, before starting another relationship. Unfortunately, the CS unintentionally hurt you too, to make himself feel better, just like he hurt himself, his wife, the kids, and his family and friends. The CS has let everyone down, and now has to try to pick up the pieces from the destruction that he has caused.

    Your job is to learn from your mistakes and pain, grow from it, become a better person. I feel you haven’t learned the mistake from your first marriage, when your H cheated on you. Somehow you allowed yourself to be the OW. After all the pain and anguish from your first marriage, why didn’t you vow never to get involved in an affair? That puzzles me. Like all of us here, you must look deeper into yourself to learn from your life and mistakes. The pain you feel here is the process of learning the hard way, because you didn’t learn it the first time. You have also played a role in his destruction. You got physically and emotionally involved with a vulnerable married man. You tried to fulfill your needs, with someone who had a wife and family. You joined the fantasy, encouraged it with your assumptions in the guise of being understanding. You were a major role in the destruction of someone else’s marriage.

    Do everyone a favor. Leave him and his family alone. Allow them to try to repair and heal from the damage that the affair caused. Vow never again to get involved with a unavailable man…that is both married, attached, or emotionally unavailable for that matter.

    You are like the alcohol bottle, to the alcoholic. The temptation and destruction of life as the CS once knew and loved. Yes, loved. He realizes what he will lose if he continues down this path with you. Not that you are a bad person, disillusioned maybe, but not bad. Just like alcohol isn’t necessarily bad, it is how alcohol is abused that causes problems in a person’s life.

    I know you hurt and I don’t mean to lecture you. But at this stage of struggle and learning in our life, every action and word comes under scrutiny. Don’t become bitter. Learn from your mistakes. We are all human and we all make mistakes. The best you can do is to move on and learn from them.

    Like all of us, we could all use some therapeutic counseling to help us understand why we do destructive things in our lives. Live to better the world. Do what you can to not hurt others. Life is not only about you and your feelings. Look beyond yourself.

    As I say often, “Affairs are wrong because they hurt EVERYONE involved.”

    • Dawn September 30, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

      Hi Jackie, not the OW Jackie, the other Jackie :-)
      I love your posts. Everything you have said is so true and so parallel to my experience.
      To the OW Jackie, I guess I am so upset by your statements because even though my husband had an emotional affair 2 years ago, the thing I carry with me the most is that the OW is walking around thinking that my husband is in a bad relationship, that I am crazy, and that he would rather be with her. Even though I know for certain that could not be further from the truth. It pains me to think that she may think that, and be discussing this in her world, as our worlds do overlap to a certain extent. I usually get past it by thinking she cannot possibly be that delusional, but then I read your posts and realize that she quite possibly could be.

  17. jackie October 1, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    @Jackie (round green face)

    Yes clearly he wasn’t working on his issues. And it isn’t as if I didn’t encourage him for years to work on them. Most of his issues, which I identified early on, he refused to admit existed. Near the end of our final breakup, he admitted he didn’t believe they were as big of a problem as he now knows they are. But it isn’t as if I didn’t try. And this was well before we had any sort of improper relationship.

    There was much more to our relationship than him saying I’m sorry, I wasn’t thinking straight. If it were that simple. I put him over the coals more than once during every stage of our relationship, drawing lines of what I wanted and expected. I was very clear that I did not want to be placed in the position that I am now. And had he taken my lead, we would still be friends, having never crossed the line at all. Instead, he gave me over-the-top gestures that were quite convincing that he meant what he said. In the end, we were pretty close to being also married. People who saw us together thought we were living together and he had already left his marriage due to a lot of reasons that I don’t want to say here. I did go to therapy after this and my therapist, who is experienced in these matters was very surprised HOW FAR he went to assure me that he was serious. He owes me far more than a “I’m sorry”. I’m not saying I want him back or even in my life, but a conversation that really gets to the root of things would be valuable to me.

    I know he was broken from things in his own past. Your situation may be very different than the situation with my OM. Not all situations are the same. His past reflects ALL the choices he has made in his life. From what he told me, he told me that he has NEVER been attracted sexually to any of the woman he has been with, that I was the first. He told me he aimed down because he knew they were insecure enough with themselves that they wouldn’t leave him, and he didn’t want to get hurt again. (I did the same in my own marriage because of the place I was in my life at the time I met my former spouse.) But if it were appearance that would be simple. He didn’t have a normal upbringing and therefore does not know what a normal relationship feels like. He chose long-term partners that reflected the same personality types he grew up with which were not healthy ones.

    I do understand that people need to voice their needs in order to have them met. But there is another side of that. What happens if voicing your needs results in a drawn out argument? Or having your feelings squashed, or invalidated. He described stuff like that to me, and having been through that myself, I know exactly what happens. You decide to keep things to yourself becuase you get tired of the fight about EVERYTHING. Communication is not simply voicing your opinions, but giving your partner the space to voice their needs and desires in an emotionally safe way. From everything he has said, he shut down because of the lack of emotional safety. And her behavior towards me, after ALL this time doesn’t give me a whole lot of confidence that she has changed her temperment at all. Otherwise, her energy would be on him, not me.

    I have had time to reflect on a lot of things, OM and my marriage. I got emotionally entangled with my OM when I was in the midst of a divorce, having a very dark, dark time in my life. I was scared, hurt, afraid that I would be alone for the rest of my life. And here was a man that really “got” me, understood how I ticked, and represented everything that I wanted in a future relationship. It was hard not to get caught up in that. That doesn’t mean I never learned anything from my marriage. My marriage did not end because of infidelity but because of other issues far more destructive. Infidelity was PEANUTS compared to the other issues.

    There was nothing I could have done to save my marriage. The issues with that squarely fell on him. I worked for a long time to fix it. The big mistake was marrying the wrong person in the first place. The other big mistake was spending years trying to fix something that NEVER WORKED TO BEGIN WITH. You can’t fix something that never worked.

    @Dawn You may be right in your situation about the OW and your H and you. But that may not be the truth in my situation. I do know people who admit to be miserable in their marriages and stay in it anyway. (Yet they continue to tell me about it.) I have counselled them to go to counseling and really work to fix it, BUT, the big BUT, to give themselves a timeline of what they expect to be corrected. I told them to not remain in limbo but to make a decision. If XYZ isn’t fulfilled by this date, then they need to move on and not keep hitting the reset button. (I did this for too long and nothing really improved.)

    I know others who stayed for the kids in marriages for more than 20 years and then left their spouses. They said they knew when their kids were young that they wanted out, but stayed anyway, much to the regret of their squandered life. (Their elder counsel told me not to do the same with my life.)

    The worst thing is to keep extending those boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable, never making a choice to move on when it isn’t working, but to keep living in fantasy land that the future will be better if you just hold out a little long. Miracles of miracles something that has never worked with just change, if you try a little longer and a little harder.

    I did that for the majority of my marriage. I realized now that the person is only who they are NOW, not what I want them to be in the future. And relationships should be regarded the same. That is why I say to set a firm set of criteria and goals, with a definitive deadline. If that deadline is breached without SUBSTANTIAL improvement, then it’s time to move on. This is my take away from both relationships. I have learned a lot about what I need to do to live in the present, and that goes far beyond love relationships. I have never done this before. I was much like your husband, deferring my needs to everyone else. The difference though was I knew what my needs and wants were, unlike my OM who deferred so much, for so long, he didn’t even know what he wanted for himself, even when asked. I have also learned how NOT to settle for less than I want. I have learned quite a lot in this experience. The only thing I haven’t gotten past is the hurt of such a deep betrayal. This was far worse than anything my ex-h and I experienced, believe me. As far as leaving him alone, I don’t contact him in any way at all. His wife doesn’t leave me alone and if she truly wanted me out of their marraige, than it is up to her to extract me out of her marriage by leaving me alone.

    For the record, I do think she is nuts. I think he is nuts. I think I am nuts. But of the three of us, I’m probably the most emotionally stable and the most introspective and self-seeking. (I’m more introspective than most people.) I also know this because I don’t believe their marriage would have gotten to the point of his multiple affairs if the two of them were more introspective, more transparent, more honest with themselves and each other. Those problems, were big and self-evident, long before I got there. They both chose to ignore them. Now they are aware of them, thanks to me.

    Being disguarded the way I was forced me to fast-track a lot of my personal growth. I think it can be extremely difficult to fix yourself (which the three of us need to do for YEARS to come), while trying to fix a relationship. The two things cancel each other out. What I mean is he has spent his whole life allowing his needs to pushed aside for the needs of others. He needs to figure out how to love himself for who he is, not for how others define him and not for what he does for others. Trying to discover ‘oneself’ while trying to also fix a relationship (which always requires compromise) is a bit counterproductive. Dawn, I hope you can make things work with your hubbie. You shouldn’t care what the OW thinks about you at all. If it bothers you, perhaps you should ask yourself why it bothers you so you can find a way to have it stop bothering you. She’s gonna do what she’s gonna do.

    I know what the wife thinks of me. She doesn’t know or understand how I tick at all and in her harrassment of me, has tried to upset me with things that don’t bother me. I’m more upset about the desire to hurt me then the actual things she says, especially since she won’t drop it. The things she says and does are so far removed from the truth about me, it’s impossible to be upset by the content. If the OW has something to say to your mutual friends, just know one thing, your mutual friends will have an interpretation that is different from both your side, and the OW side and form their own opinion. And to that end, who really cares? Your friends really don’t care, I can assure you of that. It’s just gossip to them.

  18. Jackie October 1, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Hi Jackie (green gear face),
    Your quote:
    “For the record, I do think she is nuts. I think he is nuts. I think I am nuts. ” pushed some buttons for me.

    Funny, how I really thought my H had gone nuts. He really was acting irritable, illogical, and angry weeks before he told me about being “in love” with someone else. Then after telling me, all hell broke loose. He was acting literally out of his mind. H was blaming one minute, loving the next, raising his voice towards me and the kids, not telling us where he was going or when he would be back, not saying hello or goodbye. It felt as H had lost his mind. Marriage counseling helped him open up, but when he talked he was completely irrational, saying one thing one moment and the complete opposite the next. We couldn’t agree on anything, and as far as I was concern he couldn’t care less if I were dead or alive. All I knew was he was continuing to pursue the OW, and she made him feel wonderful, and I was the enemy for some reason.

    As weeks like this went by, I too was going through a sort of craziness. Trying to understand why he was doing this, what was wrong with him. Was he mentally ill? Has he truly been unhappy for so many years without me knowing? Why didn’t he make more effort in the past to let me know how important these issues of his were so we could work it out?

    He only wanted to be left alone to enjoy his fantasy, even though he admitted it was a fantasy. This was a man who in all the years I had known him was the most honest, sincere, loyal, caring, sensitive person I knew. Now he was completely the opposite, arrogant, blaming, uncaring, dishonest, keeping secrets which were important to us and our marriage. H was acting just like a selfish adolescent. I was doing everything in my power not to go crazy myself. I knew I had to keep my head, if not for me, but for the sake of the kids.

    I knew I had to do everything in my power to remain healthy both mentally and physically, when I felt I was losing it. I lost my appetite, couldn’t sleep, had intrusive thoughts, crying all the time, and was tip toeing around him not to set him off. He frightened me so much I started to understand how someone who once loved you could kill a loved one. This was a frightening thought, but the look of hatred in his eyes were frightening.

    Why am I telling you this? I guess because I realize my H crazy actions, were making me crazy. When you are so close to someone, what they do, influences you very deeply. This is what you experienced too.

    So basically the H affair causes craziness all around him. It makes the wife crazy. Because of the lying and dishonesty the CS has to play detective trying to get at the truth that the H is trying so hard to hide. She worries about the kids, her future, her H, the OW. Her whole life has gotten out of control.

    As the OW, I suppose the beginning offers the excitement of any new relationship. That is, dreams of a wonderful future, but when real life comes into the picture, it too comes crashing down with the same kind of craziness that the BS feels…the issues of lying and dishonesty…worry about the future…and the loneliness.

    In your case and in mine, and probably many others here, the CS has created this craziness for himself for what ever reason, and anyone who enters his world gets kind of crazy themselves. The spouse has less choices, he/she is married to this person…crazy or not.

    The only cure to the craziness, is to get out of the picture or never enter it in the first place. Of course, this is much easier said than done.

    So, yes, all of you are crazy…me too! But it is what we do now that determines whether we remain in that mode, or slowly dig our way out and create better richer lives for ourselves.

    As for my H, he still has trouble talking about it. He still uses escape as his method of coping with difficult emotions. He knows he has issues, and is trying to work on them in his own way. Will it work? Who knows.

    I love him even though he has all these problems. I try to improve our relationship by reading, understanding, and trying to reach him once again. I see improvements but who knows at this point where we are going or where we will end up. I have grown thru all this, learning to deal with my fears of the unknown, and appreciating each day that I am alive.

  19. jackie October 1, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    @Dawn, I was thinking about what you said about not speaking up. A couple of things. He never had a problem speaking up for his needs to me. At first, yes. But I paid close attention to him, his words, his body language. When something seemed not right, I asked him to express what he was really feeling. And over time, he felt comfortable enough to be very specific with his feelings. Didn’t his wife pick up on that? If not, why not? From everything he told me, she didn’t want to pick up on it. She really seemed very self-oriented. And he, always was doing for others, even for strangers. So what was it about her, that made him NOT want to tell her what he needed. Obviously there was something that she did or didn’t do that made him feel like it was pointless. So no, it’s not entirely his fault. She has plenty of blame too.

    The second part that is the belief that she is crazy. The simple fact is this. For several years since the affair ended, she makes a point of leaving a typed note on my car on a regular basis. (I had it tested for finger prints and its clean.)

    She’s also slashed my tires, broke into my car and left a dead animal in it. She has even once went to my son’s school and told him that his mother was a whore. (I said something to him about it and he told me that I should turn the other cheek and that he would not do anything about these behaviors.)

    The notes continue. Never more than 8 weeks have gone by when I don’t get another one. It is always specific enough for me to know it is her, but never specific enough to indicate that it is definitely her. In other words, I can’t prove that she is doing it, but I know she is behind it. It only started when she found out about us, and the information is far too detailed for someone who wasn’t involved.

    As a result, I’m constantly looking over my shoulder, wondering when the next shoe will drop. It’s a terrifying experience.

    So after some years, why won’t she leave me alone? Isn’t it enough that he hasn’t left her and that he publicly humiliated me to appease her? (And when we talked in private about he, he said he had to do it so she would trust him and that he really didn’t mean what he said. That doesn’t make it right, and it is scary to think that he would throw away all of his scruples just to appease what she wants.)

    I would say this is proof that she is deeply disturbed and I that’s probably why he looks so beaten down and unhappy. He’s obviously afraid of what she will do to him if he breaks away from her control.

  20. jackie October 1, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    @Jackie (round green face),

    Your story really touched me. I’m sorry you went through that. I did the same thing to my Ex-H. The difference was though, is that I told him many times what I wanted. He didn’t listen. Or he did listen and changed for a few weeks, only to go back to his old ways. I said I had enough more than once. He always promised to change, and I gave him second chances, third chances. Finally, I drew the line and said ENOUGH. This time, ex-H didn’t believe me and refused to accept that my decision was final. So I had no choice but to treat him that way until he got the point.

    The feelings you described, I felt both when I was married and then in the after-math of our affair. OM strung me along for some time after the affair ended telling me that things had changed, that they got more complicated and things would still happen, only it would now take longer. In the meantime, he too had the behavior wiith me that you described from your H. Only I had never seen this behavior from him and he had never been so selfish toward me. (I had been there for him through many a personal crisis, and when it was his turn to be there for me, really be there, he wasn’t. He said things were too rough at home and he didn’t have enough for himself to give to me. That hurt more you can imagine considering how much I gave to him.)

    Yes, the feelings you described for yourself is the same feelings that I felt. With one exception.

    The spouse has less choices because they are married to the crazy person? One can say the spouse has the opportunity to fix the craziness or get out of the craziness. The OW isn’t given a choice. Instead she is left alone trying to answer questions that only he can answer. Do you think either position is enviable? At least the spouse has a fighting chance to straighten out the mess.

    I still recommend that you make a decision about what goals you want to achieve and how long they should take to acheive them.

    For myself, I am a constant work in progress. I am fine most of the time. It is only the times that I receive a note, or, when I see him at Walmart that the feeling of hurt comes back to me.

    I don’t believe I love him anymore. He isn’t the person I thought he was. He said he would never go back to such a destructive situation. But that is what he has done. Even if I had the chance, even if he came banging down my door, I just don’t know if I could truly ever trust him with my heart. We were closer than anyone can imagine and if you imagine. If a person that close to you betrays you, then there is no way to know that they can ever be trustworthy, since that sort of is the measurement of trustworthiness to begin with.

    Anyway, Jackie be strong. I assure you I will never be involved with another unavailable man again. In fact, I drop them like hot-potatoes the minute I smell something isn’t right. I don’t give them second chances. I take things at face value and don’t allow excuses and words to persuade me anymore. Perhaps it is too harsh, and I will end up alone the rest of my life. Or perhaps I am just holding out, for the first time in my life for the RIGHT guy, not just any guy who is interested in me, but the one that is right. In the meantime, I live a fulfilling life, I have friends, and I enjoy my family. The right man will be dessert on a already wonderful plate of food. (And maybe when I meet that right man, you think the wife will stop leaving me notes? I hope.)

    • Jackie October 1, 2011 at 8:48 pm #

      Jackie (green gear shaped face),
      We are going to have to make a name change or something.

      I have to say I find our conversations enlightening.

      To your comment:
      “The spouse has less choices because they are married to the crazy person? One can say the spouse has the opportunity to fix the craziness or get out of the craziness. The OW isn’t given a choice. Instead she is left alone trying to answer questions that only he can answer. Do you think either position is enviable? At least the spouse has a fighting chance to straighten out the mess.”

      Do you notice the parallel here between the BS and the OP. The CS is doing the same thing to the OP that he did to the BS. It really is interesting. The CS is really selfish in many ways. Constantly hurting those he once claims to love. Both BS and OP have been left alone at one point, trying to answer questions that only he can answer. And the annoying part is the CS often refuses to answer. It is really sad.

      Really the choice of whether to stay in the marriage or end it, is between CS and BS. The choice the OP has is to try to continue the relationship with the CS or end it. Early in the affair, the CS chooses the OP, later CS often chose to stay with the marriage. But until the CS makes up their mind both the BS and the OP don’t really know where they stand, because the CS can’t make up their minds…this is the confusion, limbo stage of the marriage. The CS really wants to have the best of both worlds, but typically the BS and the OP don’t want that kind of relationship. This is the CS fantasy. He wants what he can’t have. He wants someone to help take away his unhappiness, because he doesn’t know how to create it himself.

      The BS may or may not have an opportunity to fix the craziness. So much depends on the CS willingness to admit they have a problem and their willingness to fix it. This is usually a life long problem, started in childhood. Many CS just are unable to look at themselves clearly. They are in so much pain and denial that they even have a problem…all they care about is what makes them feel good. In this state of mind the CS doesn’t seem to care who they hurt, as long as they feel good.

      It is that addiction thing again. It is so much easier for the CS blame others for the CS problem, and so easy to convince the CS self that everyone else is the problem.
      The BS always has the option to get out of the marriage…but at what cost? Considerations such as kids and finance are a huge factor in this matter.

      In your case, the OP as well as the BS have felt the same type of painful feelings, neither position is enviable. Both have been abandoned, betrayed, hurt, and blamed by the CS at some point in the affair. True, the BS usually gets the CS back in the end, but is still faced with the fact that the CS has lied, betrayed those he once loved, and abandoned his marriage. And as you say, can you really ever completely trust someone who has betrayed you so deeply? Will they do it again?

      As you said:
      “If a person that close to you betrays you, then there is no way to know that they can ever be trustworthy, since that sort of is the measurement of trustworthiness to begin with.”

      This exactly is the BS’s dilemma when the CS comes back to the marriage. It is not a pretty picture. Nobody wins. Everyone hurts.

    • B December 2, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

      You talk about the destructive situation these men go back to—THEY MADE IT THAT WAY. When these guys are in affairs they act differently at home toward their spouse and family, angry, distant, mean, no time for them, and guess what, the spouse notices but not knowing what’s really going on it drives them crazy in a sense. When they try to talk to their cheating husband, these guys totally shut down or get mad. It eventually drives the poor wife crazy because she is at least trying, but he on the other hand is doing such damage and causing such destruction. GET REAL, he bears a lot of the blame for his home situation!!!

  21. jacklyn October 1, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    @jackie But you do get a chance to TRY to fix it. I wasn’t given that choice. (And we were not having any problems between us. Now the rift, is irreconcilable because what has happened AFTER the break up.)

    It may be hard to build trust for the betrayed spouse, but that is what marriage counseling can do for you. It helps bridge the communication problems. Even if things don’t work out for you and your H, you will take comfort that you tried your best to fix it and make it work. You will get closure. If you decide to stay in the marriage, YOU MUST find a way to let your trust issues go, or else your marriage will be doomed to be an empty shell. And no one should live like that. Not your H, and not you. If you can’t find that place, then you should end it so the two of you can have the chance of finding real happiness again.

    For me, he never gave me a real chance. He didn’t separate and take some time alone. That is what he really should have done given the circumstances that I haven’t shared. Instead, he dropped me and started working on fixing things with her. I ASKED HIM to fix things before he ever got involved with me. He said he tried and tried and tried. I coached him and gave him advice on ways to make things better with her. I helped him buy gifts for her, I helped him create surprise romantic evenings. And it still didn’t help them.

    Then we got a little too close and we got involved. I backed away many times because I told him I would NOT be second fiddle and also, that our friendship meant more to me than a sexual relationship with him. I started dating others and he kept pulling me back in telling me that I was #1 and guaranteed that it would happen for us if I were only patient. Given all the information he had fed me, for years, I believe him to be sincere, and that he had my best interest at heart.

    The day she discovered us, he cried and cried. I asked where I stood and he told me that he never loved anyone like he did me, and he would never give me up. Two days later, he told me that he will work on his marriage and that I should move on, just like that. And I was left dumb-founded because I thought that he had already done this work and he was solid about his commitment and love for me. The question was never whether he loved her, but whether their lack of anything in common could reasonable be bridged into a marriage that wasn’t filled will constant compromises, where neither person gets their greatest wishes fulfilled, and whether their personalities meshed at all.

    After all the emotional work I have done, I know what a healthy foundation looks like and what isn’t a healthy foundation. I also know when there has been a lot of water under the bridge, it is almost impossible to not fall back into old learned habits without significant time apart (years). My ex-H and I still occasionally fall back into those skirmishes over our son. He said to me, “You and I are still the same people we always were. And we still fight the way we did. People don’t change.” And I believe that is really true when two people are very different in temperaments, and when those temperament differences are not complementary.

    He most definitely has a lot of work to do. But from everything I know, she isn’t emotionally healthy either. And it isn’t just because of him. The things she asked of him to do for her, (long before we were really involved) were completely unreasonable. And when she didn’t get her way, she made a big stink about it. And I told him so many times, why do you do something you don’t want to do? His answer, “Because you have to pick your battles and I don’t always want to fight about everything.” And there lies the problem. The only way they could agree on anything is if he let her have her way. A marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship. And from what he has said to me about her, EVERYONE lets her have her way, her sisters and brothers, her parents, because she is relentless and won’t stop until she gets it. People don’t want the drama and they give in. So they enable this, and as a result, she gets worse. No one has the courage to tell her to stop.

    Anyway, I could use a little of that couples counseling with him, even if the goal is to have a more civilized closure. Especially since we live in a smallish town and see each other in public often. Given how much time has elapsed, that will never happen.

    At least you have that opportunity to see it through and find out if it could work. I wish I had the opportunity to at least resolve my feelings.

    • Lynne October 2, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

      It sounds that (from your many comments) you still have a lot of emotional/therapy work to do. You seem to have a lot of “transference”…….in other words, you seem to spend a lot of your dialogue on your AP’s wife, her behaviors and his reaction to them, instead of recognizing that there was always the risk that he would/could choose his marriage over you. You must have known this was always a possibility, yet you seem so jilted by it! It seems likely that he was in his “affair fog’ and probably meant the things he said to you at the time, but again, this is a fog of excitement and fantasy. Your comments also suggest that you are spending a great deal of time on what others say to back up your theory and impressions of “their marriage”…..this is extremely unhealthy for you and will prevent you from moving on if you choose to stay mired in what he should have done, what he said he would do, and what his wife is or is not doing to him. Stop feeling sorry for him and his lot in life–he chose a life with his wife! He doesn’t sound like a victim (as you make him out to be), but is someone who had two choices and made the one he felt was best for all concerned. End of story, done deal! Move on and build a beautiful life for yourself…..stop blaming others for the risky choices you made…..learn the lessons…..and only choose people that are really, truly and openly AVAILABLE!!!

  22. jacklyn October 2, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    @jackie I have also been thinking about what you said about Alcohol and addictions. Obviously there was some element of that to our relationship or else we would have done things the right way.

    But what if the addiction is to being in destructive relationships rather than a healthy one? And being the OW may be party to a destructive relationship because it is destructive to wife and family. However, what if the relationship with the spouse truly was toxic and destructive to the CS, to the spouse, and possibly the entire family dynamic? Then it becomes more complicated. It’s not a matter of children and finances. Its far more complicated. It’s about sentencing oneself to a lifetime of misery, setting a bad example of relationships to the kids. Money is only money after all. It’s complicated but it can be worked out. I certainly worked it out, and I was a stay at home mom without a job when my marriage broke up.

    What’s worse? Breaking up a family and a marriage, or staying inside a toxic one? What if the destructive addiction is to the person they are married to?

    These are the things I have wrestled with ever since the end of the affair and in my marriage. In the end, I thought it was more important to be happy and set a good example of a how women should be treated to my son, then stay in a marriage that abusive.

    So you may be right. I may have been a fantasy to him. (It wasn’t a fantasy to me.) But what if I were merely the Zyban to his wife, who is full on nicotine. I really do believe this based on what has happened. Unfortunately, people don’t quit smoking, even when they know its bad for them, until they are ready.

    I regret I reunited with him at the time I did (when my marriage was ending). It was a bad time in my life. We grew up on the same cul-de-sac a long time ago. I have lost a life long friend.

    • Jackie October 3, 2011 at 12:49 am #

      People should not stay in relationships that are destructive to their self esteem or that of the family. Affairs create a toxic environment for a marriage. Does that mean one should end the marriage? Not necessarily.

      People get involved in affairs for so many different reasons. I’d guess most of the reasons aren’t even obvious to the CS. Affairs seem to give the CS a high on fantasy drug like feeling. This doesn’t last forever, as the “in love” feeling is always temporary, as opposed to true loves day to day kind of feeling. So generally the BS needs to wait it out to see how things progress and see which direction the CS decides to go.

      During this period the CS is not showing his true self to the OP. The CS is not only lying to the BS, but lying to himself, and the OP. The CS often will say the BS is the problem, simply to justify his cheating actions and take the focus off himself. This is a very effective method to disarm the BS and get the BS off the CS’s back. The CS may not think he is lying, because he is too busy rationalizing his irrational behaviors. The out of touch brain works in mysterious ways.

      When someone is willing to lie and cheat on his spouse, you can’t expect him to be honest with the OP. It is not very realistic to expect honesty from the CS who is being clearly dishonest to his BS and marriage. The CS has some unaddressed issues.

      So what is the real truth? It is what ever truth one chooses to believe, and that can change minute to minute, day to day, and will hopefully stabilize over time. I supposed this is the irrational rollercoaster behavior that the CS exhibits. Over time the CS figures out what he believes is his truth. The BS and OP also figure out their version of truths. But there really is no one “real truth”, just numerous different perspectives.

      Generally all beginning relationships beginning with the “in love” feeling, are a drug induced fantasy (ie. the fog). The couple imagines and creates what they hope will become a true loving relationship. But it is not until you really get to know someone over time, day in and day out, that their real true nature comes through. That is when real love takes over. Over time individuals try to learn to accept one other for who they are, warts and all. Often times they have to give and take, and work together for what each feels is best for each other and the relationship. This may include not voicing opinions strongly to keep the peace in the relationship. If something is important enough, it is should be brought up for discussion. Sometimes, people just disagree, or agree to disagree. Others argue over and over about the same things.

      Most CS realize over time, what they had really wasn’t as bad as they imagined, in fact, there is a lot of good in the marriage that they don’t want give up after all. Maybe the grass wasn’t really greener on the other side, just different and new. And different and new isn’t necessarily better. With different and new, comes different and new problems, along with the same old problems.

      • jacklyn October 3, 2011 at 9:16 am #

        > Affairs create a toxic environment for a marriage. 

        What I am saying is the toxic environment existed BEFORE the affair. The affair simply worsened it.

        >  “in love” feeling is always temporary, as opposed to true loves day to day kind of feeling. 

        All love starts that way, not just affairs.  What bothers me to no end is the notion that a love a CS can have for the OP couldn’t possibly be real, simply because it was an affair, or simply because he choses to stay with the BS. People don’t always stay together for the right reasons.  And simply being married to a person doesn’t automatically put some magic Pixie dust on the quality of that relationship.  

        Sure many affairs could be a fog.  But it is a little harder to justify it as a fog when it was a long-term relationship.   For myself and my partner, we served on the same civic board for over a decade.  We got to know each other under fire over a long stretch of time, in good times and bad times.  Our affair didn’t start for more than 5 years of us spending a non-trivial time amount of time together. Before we re-met each other as adults, we lived on the same cul-de-sac. So we knew each other very well, warts and all. They say that if love lasts more than 6-12 months, then it is more than simply infatuation. That would indicate far more than a fog. Loving one person doesn’t automatically mean that any other love you feel is less real.
          
        >Sometimes, people just disagree, or agree to disagree. Others argue over and over about the same things.

        The 1st could be a healthy situation depending on the nature and the quantity of the disagreements. The second, is unhealthy.  And even if one’s truth is that the second is ok, from a shrink perspective, it isn’t ok.  Justifying not-ok behavior may be one’s personal truth, but it isn’t a truth rooted in a healthy self-esteem.  That is why you see victims of familial molestation defending people who molested them. They love and hate the person who hurt them and cannot separate the two, because they are damaged.  It may be their truth, but it isn’t a truth that you or I would ever defend as a healthy choice.  I mentioned that I still get notes on my car, after three years. How much more time does she need to ‘wait it out’ and see? And everyone knows that she continues to do this.  But since her daddy owns the town, they simply ignore it.  Can you honestly defend those behaviors as justifiable after we have had no contact for all of this time? No wonder it’s difficult for me to get over it. It isn’t as if CS returned back to his civic life, or his regular activity or his friends either.  So did he realize the grass was greener at home.  I’m not sure if the situation can be broken down  as who’s grass is greener.  I think it is far more twisted than that.  Perhaps in your situation it is different. I can tell by your writing style that you have empathy and introspection. So in your situation all that you have said is likely to be true.  But that doesn’t mean it goes across the board to all affair situations.  The person I told you about who left their marriage after 20 years, regretting every day of it, ended it with an affair.  Even then, they said they would have stayed and endured it for longer for the sake of the kids. They tried for more than a year. But the BS made his life living hell and he decided he couldn’t stay.  But not everyone is that strong. Some people will stay, even if they aren’t happy and would rather not be with the BS.  And it may not be because they want to be with the OP, but simply that they want to be OUT of the marriage period.  The affair may have just been an exit. I stayed in my marriage for 22 years.  I knew I wanted out in year 5.  

        • Jackie October 3, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

          My generalizations are just that, generalizations. Each situation is very different. I am only presenting my overall view of what I have learned during these last few years, in hopes of helping others find peace of mind due to an affair.

          The fantasy I talk about referred mainly to the CS. I never said there was no real connection between the affair partners. Nor did I say, what you personally felt was all a fantasy. We all are capable of loving many people. In fact, most if not all of our marriages and relationships started out that way. The fantasy is based on a connection that is real.

          The fantasy comes into play when the CS thinks he can have it all. To have a secret emotional relationship with the OP and honest emotional relationship with the BS in his marriage, is a fantasy. For it to be fair, the CS need to be honest with the BS as to what is going on, and allow the BS to make a choice as to whether she wants this kind of relationship or not. The CS’s sneaking around and lying are very destructive behaviors. Usually both OP and BS each want an exclusive relationship with the CS. The CS is often lying to both the OP and the BS to keep the fantasy going. As I said before, the CS is also rationalizing it all to himself, that this is an okay thing to do with other people’s emotions. This is cruel emotionally for the CS and OP, and very selfish on the CS’s part. This is all self serving crazy making.

          I suppose the OP has their own version of the fantasy too. Believing a married person wants an honest relationship outside his marriage, is in a sense a fantasy. The reality is that the CS is married, and if the CS is unhappy he should get divorce and be free to pursue his happiness. The OP can justify and rationalize all they want, but it is still a fact that the CS is married. (Please don’t take this as an attack! It is not meant to be one.)

          The reality is that, one has to choose how they want to live their life. That it is wrong to start another relationship before completely severing the first one. Affair triangles cause too much emotional hurt and betrayal for all the parties involved. I supposed it is because most CS abandon one person emotionally for another. It is a cruel treatment of people’s emotions, both the BS and the OP. Using an affair is a coward’s way out for some. For others, they fall into an affair, and have trouble getting back out because of the addictive qualities of the “in love” feelings. And for still others, an affair can happen for another one of many reasons sa health, time of life, stress etc… Each CS has their own reason for cheating. Some CS just don’t know why they cheat, nor do they want to know why. Other CS are trying to understand and fix their problems.

          It is for each of us to determine why we get involved in our unhealthy behaviors, whether it be drugs, alcohol, over work, affairs, or any other means of escape, rather than deal directly with our pained emotions. All these are part of our imperfect human condition.

          I just know for me, after all this pain, I will never choose to start an affair, and never choose to allow myself to get involved with someone who is not available, that is married, attached, or emotionally unavailable. I have seen and felt too much pain already in this life time. I don’t need to create more unhealthy drama in my life.

          I, as well as everyone here, am trying to find meaning to what went wrong, to learn and grow from mistakes I have made to contribute to this. We must all deal with the damage caused in our lives due to the affair. There are also many things that are not in my power to change, and those I must learn to deal with.

          Some people get stuck in blame, anger, bitterness, and pain. I suppose this is where many people get hung up. That may help to explain the BS’s behavior towards you. It is so much easier to blame others, than to look at one’s self and one’s own life, than to accept where you are and focus on where you are going. But being stuck isn’t learning and growing from the experience. Move on, learn and grow from your mistakes. That is the best we can each do, to better our life and that of others.

          • Jacklyn October 3, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

            I think you have wrapped this thread up nicely.

  23. Jackie October 3, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Thanks Jacklyn. And thanks for adjusting your name, to ease confusion.

  24. Gizfield June 7, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    If you think you know somebody “warts and all” cause you work together for years our live on the same street you are in a fog. When you live with someone for years, and have seen them in all situations, then you might begin to know them. Has your friend seen you when you are angry, hungry, up all night with a child, when you have had no make up or shower, when you have been sick for a week, when you are hurling your guts out? I didnt think so…

  25. Gizfield June 7, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    Oh, I forgot the special events of pregnancy, like gaining 60 pounds due to edema and high blood pressure, and seeing a ten pound baby shoot out your ass, lol. I’m really surprised anybody stays married after that! Yet they do…maybe thats what love is about, not some retarded text messages and sappy love songs. Maturity is a bitch, isn’t it?

  26. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 8:02 am #

    Jackie. Thank you for your perspective as the other woman. I don’t want to bash you however, just because the hubby says he was abused, or not in love with his wife etc or any of the other lies he told you doesn’t make it so. Do you really think he would tell you that he loves his wife and family but is confused or having a mid life crisis or whatever. Would you have put it all out there for him? It is comforting to you to think he is till unhappy and in a bad relationship because it makes you feel better when the truth of the matter is that he had choices. He could have stayed with you and would have stayed with you if you were the love of his life as the other woman often says and thinks. He chose to stay with his wife and family because he lives them above all else. To this day the OW in our relationship thinks my husband stayed with me for kids, money, respect etc. anything but love. For the other woman to accept that we are in love would mean that she wasted years of her life pining over a man that was already taken. I don’t believe he is miserable with his wife. You may see something in his eyes at Walmart but it is probably guilt, regret, shame and embarrassment. I don’t understand why OW take what isn’t theirs and then say ” he was the love of my life”. If he was, nothing would stop him from being with you. Period. He is with who he chooses to be with. That’s the bottom line and you can tell yourself that he is still pining for you and he made the wrong decision all you want. Trust me. He is happy with his wife and children. You are fooling yourself to ease your own guilt

  27. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 8:25 am #

    Seriously Jackie OW – ” why didn’t the wife talk to him, ask him about his feeling etc… Well , while you were at a bar or hotel or parking lot watching his facial expressions and delving into his psyche and really listening to him and observing him, his wife was at home , working, laundry, kids, soccer, baseball, dance classes, etc. the wife didn’t have the luxury of sitting in a bar with no worries and not a care in the world OMG. Couples grow apart because of their busy lives while raising children but it ebbs and flows and when the children are out of the house a new adventure starts for the married couple. You met the OM during one of these ebbs. Having been married and cheated on yourself , you should have seen the signs. My husband who cheated on me told me it was fun, a distraction, the OW listened to him and understood him. HAH. Of course it’s fun going to a bar or a hotel and locking out the problems and day to day business. You weren’t at home taking care of your children , or bills, or sick parents or in laws. You were in a fantasy world. You had all the time in the world to really “listen to him” Duh.

  28. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 8:44 am #

    The OW in my marriage also thinks the same thing. Thinks my hubby stayed for kids and/ or money. She even told me this to my face. I think all OW actually believe this. To think you were just a distraction or piece of A$@ would be damaging to your self esteem. As for the wife still bothering you or leaving notes on your car. Too bad. Suck it up. Maybe that’s how she is healing. I am 2 years out from D Day and although there is no contact I think of her often and plot ways to piss her off. Not because she is a part of my life or even worth my time but because its fun. Your statements about other people thinking the same as you and how he would e better with you etc… Shows how emotionally unstable and emotionally immature you are. My OW said the same thing. She told me that even his own family thought they should be together. Everyone that sees is together knows I can make him happier. Etc etc etc. the truth is I don’t need anyone or anything to back me up when I say my husband is the love of my life. It’s just the way it is. I don’t need reinforcements or kudos from the outside world. When you meet someone (who is not married) and fall in love again, you will know its the real thing when you don’t need encouragement, kudos or reinforcement from outsiders to bolster your stance. It will be you and him alone. Period

  29. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 8:53 am #

    It’s very nice to hear the OW perspective on things but its also very telling that they all say exactly the same thing. Like a line from a play book. To this day, I know for a fact the OW thinks my hubby still loves her and is just living his life out in misery. That really pissed me off but it’s comforting to know they all say the same thing.

  30. Jackie June 21, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    Well as a matter of fact, I overheard him talking to his sister. I was online at the checkout counter a few feet behind him. She asked him how things were at home, and he said they were horrible and that he is still unhappy. He did not know I was there. So I guess he must be lying to his sister too.

  31. Jackie June 21, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    Puleze. That wife never took her kid to a soccer game, pediatrician, dance recital or did a load of laundry in her life. He did all of it, brought home the bacon, and fixed the washing machine. He was both mom and dad.

  32. Jackie June 21, 2013 at 9:14 am #

    “I am 2 years out from D Day and although there is no contact I think of her often and plot ways to piss her off. Not because she is a part of my life or even worth my time but because its fun.”

    This is not behavior of a mature adult who “won”. This is adolescent and probably should be visited with a licenced counselor.

  33. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 9:34 am #

    I didn’t “win”. It wasn’t a contest. I had him all along and still do. I even had him here supporting me and our kids, living together, sharing, etc while he was dallying with the other woman once a week. To be honest, I actually thought my OW found this site when I read your comments because it is exactly what she said. To win or lose there has to be a competition. To me, there was no competition. Puleeze. I was deeply hurt, traumatized, embarrassed, etc. but I knew that he would never leave. I wasn’t competing with the other woman. I didn’t even know she existed until dday. She was competing with me for my husband. In order to compete , one must be in the game. I was just living my life day to day and doing the usual. So apparently my “usual” was enough. Tell me, did the wife actually know the affair was going on when it started or did she find out later (dday)? You see, there is no competition when it’s just one woman trying to take something that doesn’t belong to her. The competition starts after dday, I would say. After I found out about the affair it had been going on for 18 months, so the OW had 18 months to convince my hubby she was the one. She had 18 months to really “listen to him” and make him feel like a king. That’s a long time. Yet when the affair becomes public knowledge it’s not as much fun anymore. There’s no sneaking around or clandestine meetings or adrenaline rush. When the bullet hit the bone , he chose his wife just like your CS. It comforts you to think he’s not happy, but he had choices and you did your very best to “win” him. You probably had your hair and nails done every time you saw him. You have him your full attention and hung on his every word and cared so deeply you had to convince him to open up to you. You game him mind blowing sex and understood him like no one else ever has. Yet hen the wife (me) found out, it wasn’t fun anymore. My OW insisted my hubby states with me for kids even though my kids are 19 and 21 and almost finished with college. You see, I didn’t WIN anything. I wasn’t in competition. I already had the prize

  34. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 9:38 am #

    I would be interested to know how long your affair lasted before his wife found out from a perspective point if you wouldn’t mind sharing

  35. Surviving June 21, 2013 at 9:40 am #

    @Jackie,
    Really he didn’t notice you behind him at the checkout counter and was talking about his personal problems loud enough for you to hear?

  36. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 9:50 am #

    Sorry. I have one more question to ask. I always wanted to ask her this so ill ask you if you don’t mind. I never understood why : if you or the OW was the love of the CS life and even other people said so , why the sneaking around? If my hubby wanted to be with the OW why sneak around behind my back? The OW actually got mad several times when she couldn’t see my hubby because he had plans with me or when we went on vacation. I always wondered what she thought when this happened. Did she think I hog tied him to my car or drugged him to get on an airplane? I’m talking when the plans were just me and him (no kids). We went to poco is and enjoyed 2 nd honeymoon and she was pissed. What was going thru her mind. Didn’t she realize tht if he was spending one on one time with me for no other reason than to just be with me alone that maybe, just maybe things weren’t as bad as made them out to be? She was mad all the time because she only saw him before work or when I was out with my friends. Didn’t it ever occur to her that he only saw her when I wasn’t around? It’s not like he skipped family dinners or vacations to be with her. I was just always curious as to what she thought. I even saw a text one time with her asking to go somewhere on a Friday night am he responded that we had plans together. How did she justify that in her mind. Did she think I was forcing him or blackmailing him to go out with me?

  37. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 9:59 am #

    One time we were in New Orleans on vacation during their affair ( I was unaware of affair). We were having a blast. Just the 2 of us. Drinking, eating sightseeing flashing for beads etc. found out later that he texted her from New Orleans and they were in communication. Yes he was a schmuck and an ass however, did the Ow really believe in her pea brain that he was there against his will? That he was moping around and pining for her? Seriously, how desperate must she have been. How low was her self esteem that she took crumbs here and there when I wasn’t around. How could he possibly be in love with you or the love of your life when he was only willing to throw you crumbs when he was available. My hubby never once broke plans with me to be with her ever. The only time he actually saw her was when I was busy doing something else. If he truly wanted her and not me why didn’t he just tell me , hey, I want to go out with OW tonight? Because the sneaking around was part of the rush. That’s why. When DDAY came the rush was gone

  38. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Sorry for the rants but these posts must have struck a chord with me tht I thought was long buried. Lol. It irritates me to no end when the OW states that she got jilted, or she has feelings, or she has pain , or needs counseling etc. you can’t lose something that was never yours! Did he see you in childbirth in all your glory, did he see you throwing up with the flu, did he see you in the morning with morning breath and crazy hair, did he see you with unshaven legs because your kid was sick for 3 days, did he see you when you were preoccupied, moody, overworked an tired? No. He only saw the best of you. He saw the OW coiffed, perfumed and dressed to the nines ( or what she thought was the nines). Lol. The OW wasn’t preoccupied with kids, work, chores, money etc because you had none of these things in common. He asked you to dinner or to a bar for a drink or a walk in the park. You had all the time in the world to primp and preen and when you met up with him he was the only thing on your mind because you had nothing else in your life. My hubby’s OW actually had 3 kids that she totally ignored when he called her. Hand to God, she was in a hotel with another loser when she got a call from police that her kids were having a party and underage drinking at her house. Her youngest was 12. She left the hotel, went home talked with cops, grounded her kids and went back to hotel. The only thing that mattered to her was herself. Her only interest was “winning” the man. Her own husband cheated on her yet she had all the excuses in the book as to why her affair with a married man was different. My kids were very hurt and mad and were disrespectful to my husband when they found out. She told me it was my fault and that my kids shouldn’t be involved! She was delusional. How can you have an affair with a married man with children and disregard the kids?

  39. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    I agree Trying Hard. OW Jackie. You say Pulleeeze the wife never did laundry, or went to a pediatrician office. He allegedly worked full time and came home and did everything. What is he “superman”? This is what he told you. This is what you believed. You weren’t there. You weren’t living with them. Did the pediatrician come in on Sundays just for this poor hard working man? Never did laundry in her life? Wow. You bought it hook, line and sinker. A more believable tale would be ” my wife is behind on laundry or only does it once a week”. Not NEVER. The next time you meet a man be careful what you believe

  40. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 11:39 am #

    Here’s another tip. There isn’t a married man alive that will tell you I am so happy with my wife an life I just want a piece of extra A$& because I’m bored. They will always tell you try are miserable. They won’t tell you they are in the throes of a mid life crisis and feeling old. And they will always tell you they have to do “everything around the house”. You see, they are putting their best foot forward to. Would you have slept with him if he told you his wife was terrific? Would you have slept with him if he told you his wife was a great mother? Of course not. Et life is so bad at home he chose her over you in the end. The OW has to believe he is miserable and has to believe his lies. Why else would the other woman accept crumbs

  41. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    I missed the post whee you said the affair ended when the wife found out. Sorry. I posted a question asking you when the affair ended. Isn’t it interesting that the affair can be 5 minutes or years and years as you describe but the minute the wife finds out it ends? Jackie (OW) why would you have played second fiddle for years and years? If you thought he was the love of your life or you his why didn’t you tell the wife? Why didn’t he tell his wife? Surely, you must have thought he would choose you, so why the sneaking around?

  42. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    The very 1st thing the OW said to me when I met up with her was ” how could you not have known your husband was having an affair with me?” Ummm seriously. Do you think I knew about it and just allowed it Dumb ass. Fact is, the minute I found out, the minute he decided to stay with me. Very similar to Jackie (ow) CS. Why oh why do these tramps think the man will stay with them for the duration when they won’t even tell their wives they are having an affair or want a divorce? Simply put, it’s a fantasy and fun while it lasts

  43. Jackie June 21, 2013 at 2:52 pm #

    To answer all the questions. It’s hard to put a date when the affair began since it started as an emotional affair many years before it was sexual. The sexual affair was under a year.

    The man did not overhear me on the line and has done every thing to convince me that he is happy. If he had seen me there, he would not have so freely shared information to the contrary.

    The man does a lot of charity work with the church and has double-timed his charity work. The town talks and believes it is to spend as LITTLE time at home as possible. They also think he made the wrong choice and is too embarrassed to admit it, and too devoted to his children (who are young) to do anything about it.

    I know the wife didn’t do anything at the home because I had been to their home, seen them together, and have seen WHO does the work around the house. Having known him for many years, it’s not hard to notice these dynamics.

    We never met in a bar or a hotel. We spent time at each other’s home.

    Lastly, why is it so hard to believe that men might actually stay for their KIDS. People do that all the time. It might make your darling little hearts to believe that, and I’m sure he fooled you into believing that. But bottom line is, if he were fulfilling you so bad, he wouldn’t have stepped out on you the first place. Staying with status quo is not evidence of loyalty. It could just as easily be evidence of cowardice, the same cowardice they displayed by not telling you they were unhappy in the relationship in the first place. If you feel you have to harass your OW after some years, then deep down inside, you know your marriage is compromised and perhaps your husband really doesn’t want to be there. He can also love you but not like you very much. (very common) A secure and happy wife wouldn’t give a crap about OW years later.

    • tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

      Jackie tthe OW
      You know what you are right. It is a waste of time even giving that pathetic excuse any attention. My H sure didn’t have a problem tossing her to the curb. I laugh and so does he when he tells me all the lies he told her. FYI at my house I DID ALL THE HONEY DO CHORES! So what was his excuse?? He was bored. Well he was bored because he was boring and guess what come to find out so was the OW. Her constant complaining became very tedious for him. He saw right through her passive/aggressive behavior and wanted to get rid of her. Yep he was a coward about getting rid of her sooner because he was scared to death she would tell me everything. He did everything to keep it secret. Not to keep her on the line because he kept hoping she would find someone else. Heck she did when she was seeing him. She played both of them for money. But he finally found his courage and he beat her to the punch and told me everything.

      He freely admitted he told her disparaging things about me and our marriage to shut her up, keep her calm and make himself look better in her eyes. I don’t expect you to grasp or understand any of this. I understand your limitations. I do want to thank you for driving it home that you OW are truly not worth any of my thought, hatred or attention. Your are right, you had no responsibility for anything because you are bottom feeders. Bottom feeders eat other people’s crumbs. They never get to see sunlight because it’s too embarrassing to be seen with them. Besides they are never near as lovely in broad daylight.

      Really helping me to move on and accept all the love and attention and great sex I am getting from my husband.

      Every time one of you OW surfaces and post your arguments for fucking a married man, I understand more clearly why it was so easy for him to forget and dump the OW. Thanks :)

  44. tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 3:30 pm #

    Also I didn’t even realize that this thread started two years ago. Looks like to me YOU, Jackie the OW, are having a hard time letting go too!!! I would have thought by now since you talk so big you would have moved on and not even responded!!!

    You talk the talk but you can’t walk the walk! PATHETIC

  45. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    I agree that men stay in marriages for the kids all the time. However, my OW is insisting that my husband stayed for the kids and my kids are 19 and 21 and 1 is already on his own. There would be no child support or worry about splitting up time. My husband stepped out on me because he has a mid life crisis , something he admitted to and something our counselor agrees with as well. He stayed because he realized what he had with me and has told me often how he almost made the biggest mistake in his life

    As for me harassing the OW after all these years – it hasn’t happened. She is not worth the dirt on the bottom of my shoes. I couldn’t care less about her as my husband has realized his mistake.

    And while you may have entertained each other in your homes an have actually seen his wife at home, you did not live with them. You were not there on a daily basis. When we have guests over , my husband runs around like a chicken getting drinks, talking, cleaning up etc. it would be easy to misinterpret that as being the status quo.

    Actually , in my case the other woman was also a guest in my home during their affair ( I was unaware of affair) and he was like a whirlwind of activity cleaning glasses, getting drinks, loading dishwasher. It would be easy for a Visitor to think he did this all the time.

    Lastly, if you had a deep emotional bond and commitment to each other, why did he drop you like a hot potato 2 days after his wife found out? Even if he stayed for the kids or does charity work to get away from his wife, why did he dump you. You could have remained friends since you 2 were extremely close. He’s telling you he is happy with his wife and you are not believing him. And you are obviously gossiping with others if you know what they have to say about the situation.

    And you didn’t answer my question. I’m not bashing you or judging you. I would really like an answer as you were the OW. In my case and your case and everyone else on this site. If you had such a bond , or emotional attachment, or off the wall sex , why the secrecy? Why didn’t the other woman tell me (we were friends) what they were doing? If she thought she was the love of his life and they had a future why not tell me to get me out of the way? Why the secrecy? It’s my belief that she knew once the cat was out of the bag, the relationship would be over. The relationship was a lie, a sham and sloppy seconds and it couldn’t be sustained without the thrill and secrets

  46. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

    Oh wow. Trying hard, I also didn’t know this thread was 2 years old. Thought it was just posted.

    And another thing, if his wife truly didn’t do anything for her kids and he was totally devoted to them he could have sued for custody and you could have had a ready made family. Star crossed lovers with deep emotional bonds and ties shouldn’t have to be separated. Of he’s spending so much time away from home how is he seeing his kids anyway? Seems to me there is a crack in your belief.

  47. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

    And Jackie. My OW also told me she shared a deep bond with my husband and they were best friends and couldn’t live without each other. She also told me in detail (joyfully) of their sexcapades after I found out about affair. It was a last ditch effort to keep my husband and make me go away. Believe me, if I believed he had a deep bond with anyone else I wouldn’t be here.

  48. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    To answer your question, it’s not hard or unimaginable to believe that some marriages stay together for the kids but on the other hand why is it so hard for the OW to believe that the husbands stay because they love their wives especially when that is what they are telling you

    • tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

      Because Cindy then she would have to admit to herself that she was used and discarded. That she made a fool of herself. That she was stupid enough to believe all the bull he shoveled out to her. Not only did she buy it she savored it. Now she has to wonder what he’s saying to his wife about her ??? She was discarded and she just can’t accept it that he really does love his wife, his family, and his life. Mostly because she is still living in her fantasy world. PATHETIC.

  49. Jackie June 21, 2013 at 4:58 pm #

    No. I’m not hung up. I just get an email ding every time one of you sends an email.

    And I’m very amused by the stereotypes of OW that are so inaccurate. They are varied and different as your relationships are with your husbands.

    Some of you have better relationships because of your OW. Congratulations. It sucked to have it happen that way.

    Others of you are delusional. Your relationships are just as bad as they always were and he’s lying to you, just like he lied to you when he cheated on you, and just like he lied to the OW. A person who lies to their primary partner is someone who is capable of lying to anyone, about anything. That’s a deeper, deeper flaw than just participation.

    Have fun looking externally for all your problems. You’ll always solve your own problems by blaming someone else.

    • tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 5:12 pm #

      Me thinks she does protest too much!!! LOLOLOL

      Yes they are big fat lairs and that is why we read, go to therapy, talk, probe, dig to make sure it NEVER happens again. I am no where near as naive as when I took him at his word. If he’s lying now he deserves an academy award!

      Nope, wrong again, I am too smart to look externally. I dug deep into my own issues and figured out how they impacted my husband. Made great changes and he has too.

      You if you want to read a blog that patronizes you pathetic existence I hear there are plenty of blogs you can read. With your shitty attitude toward right and wrong and reality you are not going to find ANY support here. There are plenty of OW on this site that have great attitudes and understand the impact and reality of their choices. We support those women as well. They were used by married men. They get a lot of information, support, and help here. Every once in a while some one like you shows up and spouts her ridiculousness and well sorry but you get what you deserve. You are here to see what the wives are saying because you are still daydreaming about your Prince Charming!

      Unclick the box genius so you don’t have to hear our abuse because that’s all you’re going to get!!!

      Oh yeah, WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get over it.

  50. Disappointed June 21, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    No one wins with affairs. You may survive them but you don’t win.

    • tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

      Dis
      I hear what you are saying however compared to the OW that was in my H’s life, I WIN. She lost everything including him not to mention any sense of dignity. Her family even came down on her for having the affair. I have a good relationship with the man I love, I have the love and respect of my family, I have my business, I have a very nice blessed life. I want for nothing, well with the exception that I could make the affair go away and we are working on that. Yep, she definitely lost compared to me.

      I wish the same for you :)

  51. tryinghard June 21, 2013 at 6:28 pm #

    LOL I just realized I never answered your question. Yes undeniably so Doug and Linda my H lives with regret, shame and guilt. This keeps him humble and he knows he needs it. He knows what a false ego he had with the OW. Now he sees it an is ashamed. I feel bad for him sometimes but this was NO mistake, it was a choice and well I learned as a young woman that we are responsible for our own choices, good or bad, and we have to live with them—forever!

    Thanks for reposting. I got soooo much out of this.

  52. Cindy June 21, 2013 at 7:13 pm #

    Jackie – according to you, our husbands have a deep deep character flaw and are liars, and we are blaming others for our problems and you are just a participant. The poor, misunderstood and stereotyped mistress.
    First of all we are not stereotyping anyone on this board. All OW are exactly the same. They all try to take what’s not their and then try to justify their actions. It is what it is

    We don’t blame others for our problems either. We didn’t cheat , or lie or try to take something that didn’t belong to us. We didn’t create the problems as you so put it
    You act like you are lily white and take no blame for your part in the affair.
    If our husbands have deep deep character flaws that make them lie and cheat then the minute you crossed over the line you accepted that and wanted that kind of man yet you scoff at us survivors for continuing to love that man and forgive him.
    You weren’t just a participant. You were a liar and cheater as well . Hiding in the shadows am accepting the left over crumbs.
    Then you come on this site and blame the husband and the wife and paint yourself the victim. You are not the victim and not just a participant. Even after all these years you still can’t accept responsibility for what you have done. That’s the problem.

  53. forcryin'outloud June 21, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

    Jackie first posted in 9/2011 it’s now 21 months later and she’s still spewing the same vitriol. I think she’s stuck early on in the evolutionary chart of multi-cell organisms.

    Evolve…MOVE ON!

  54. Tryinghard June 22, 2013 at 8:39 am #

    Fool and Cindy
    You both made great points. I agree. I guess we are all stuck to a certain degree however she was the one that participated in the “crime”. I’m amazed how she continues to buy into the old tale of poor me that he told her. I’m also amazed at the lameness of the tale, he cheated because the wife made him do things around the house and he couldn’t eat junk food! Boy if there were ever a reason to cheat that would be it! I have a hard time listening to fools and just can’t hold my 2 cents when the talk and act so stupid. She’s right up there with Jody the guilty one!

  55. suziesuffers June 30, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    I think there is some truth to all of these points….and I’m the last to want to admit it…I was the BS….many many times. Did the CS lie to the other woman or just “expand” on the truth to make himself look good….don’t we all do that when we first meet someone to impress them…Does the CS eventually manipulate the situation in or to get “into the pants” of the other woman….absolutely!! My ex husband told me just what he would say to make a woman feel comfortable with him…he’s very charming narcissistic recovering alcoholic addict….So he’s really really good at lying…expert. So what makes me believe he wasn’t lying to me just as much about the OW to minimize the impact….Oh ya, he told me some awful things about her…her selfish, rude behavior…mixed in with the things that he liked about her….but as he saw how much that hurt I think he moved toward more of her negative traits…we all have them…So when talking to me…to minimize the hurt, it was eventually how stupid he was and all her negative traits to help boost my crushed self esteem that he had destroyed over the 35 years we were together struggling thru his addictions…well, his sober years were THE WORST….he cheated more than ever with every AA or Alanon woman that would have him…and if they didn’t he just lusted after them….Do I think he showed a persona that was just the stellar recovering addict!!! Absolutely!! And when I went to therapy and was talking to a therapist about how hurt I was…devastated to my very core after the 5 years of his “recovery” and constant sexual pursuits of ANYONE it seemed…I explained how much I was talking to my husband about how inferior I felt..comparing my self to all the women…but especially one in particular that he struggled letting go of…..and how much he was professing he loved me…but wouldn’t go to counseling and how crazy I was trying to heal myself..that he had all the words, but he resented being transparent (later to find his transparency was a front for his continued “escapes”)…I just became more and more viligant in trying to keep an eye on him…scared of what the next day would bring..never trusting…YES ..I had gone crazy with the crazy making of him telling me I was everything to him…he had never loved me like he loved me know…how grateful he was….but each and everyday I brought up the affair(they all rolled into one it seemed)…trying desperately to relieve the pain and get closure..I used Linda Glassman (I think that’s the name) book on how to help your spouse get over your cheating…over and over I read it and it spoke to exactly how I felt…I told him about this website…sent him emails about recovery….I was on him 24/7 pushing him to take any action …other than just wanting to “play” second honeymoon with lots of gooey talk and sex…that we needed something more and that I WAS SO STUCK….WELL…he was charming and for the most part was saying loving words…but discounting how I was feeling…telling me I was doing it just to punish him…”crucify” him as he spread his arms out…wanting me to have an affair to be even (guess he didn’t mind some images of some guy with me:)…all around telling me how little the other women meant….how awful they were…sex was terrible for the most part because she was a smoker and drunk AAer newcomer……BUT the therapist said one thing to me that crushed my bubble….me thinking that somehow his affirmations of all the negatives about HER (the most threatening and last PA)….HE said to me….WHY DO YOU THINK HE WAS TELLING YOU THE TRUTH?? EVERYTHING HE SAID COULD BE A LIE!!! Boy, why did I want to believe that all his wonderful words to me were truthful….He had lied to me and lied to the OW…Lying is what was saving his “A@S”…It’s what smoothed things over!! It’s what helped “temporarily” build my self esteem….because I could believe it wasn’t so much about what I lacked in comparison….WELL….They LIE!! How could we ever know the truth…I could catch him in a lie and it would be because of his memory lapse and he would correct himself and confirm the information…making me think he was being truthful!!! Truth is not a word in their vocabulary. THEY are selfish and will save their “A@S”…My part was that I was never getting any closure…He was still doing what I thought was being less than open and transparent….which just brewed my suspicions and my viligance to check up on him…he’d delete emails…hide messages…from women he’d met in AA…telling me later that I would just be upset because they were innocent and I would make a big deal about them…so better to hide them. NO I didn’t want him making friends with women in these groups…it was a social meat market…he had no business “connecting” with women in these groups…get well with the men…SINCE in the past you’ve had issues with the women…DUH…of course, I’m insecure about that……But there was always an excuse…He left me telling me it was all my fault because I had my “head so far up his a@s” that it was driving him crazy on my constant checking up (don’t know why it bothered him so much if he had nothing to hide)..that I was talking about it all the time making him crazy (admitted I was stuck in a downward spiral at times…especially when his behavior was unpredicatable and still selfish….so he told me everyday how much he loved me and how wonderful and terrific I was…and I went out of town and came back to an empty place….and he told me he would have told me anything so I didn’t know what he was planning…that he just wanted me to shut the “fk” up so he wouldn’t have to hear about the affairs for one more day…course he had refused to go to counseling together…said AA is all he needed …of course, I found out later he was secretively going to Alanon meeting (more codependent women needing comfort)…and “getting” to know them…telling them he wasn’t with his wife anymore and wanted a divorce…whilst telling me for months how much he loved me and couldn’t live without me!!! He’s always broke…finally go SS for retirement and as an architect is working parttime as a security guard and moved in with an Alanon lady to start his new life…luckily he was having to leave the place where he was living and she owns a home….big surprise…after all he said he looks for money and sex…that’s why he married me…as he told my son..and that he married me for all the wrong reasons….seems he’s still using that MO…but professes how much he has spiritually grown by looking at his emotional availability and that his problem all these years was that he was trying to make relationships with people that were emotionally unavail..we were together for 35 years…who’s he talking about…alll these people…All the women he was having affairs with that didn’t work out were emotionally unavail…but he realized it wasn’t him…it was them because he feels he was partially avail…although not always…they weren’t……CRAZY MAKING AT IT’S TOPS!! And yet….I miss the good guy I thought I feel in love with…must have been an illusion…..because he’s been lost for a very long time. Sorry for the long post…THEY LIE TO WHOMEVER THEY NEED TO IN ORDER TO SATISFY THE SITUATION….BS OR OW….WHATEVER IT TAKES TO KEEP THEIR EGO IN TACT….AND THEIR BUTT OUT OF THE SLING…OR KICKED OUT HOMELESS.

  56. Kaya August 26, 2014 at 6:32 pm #

    I just divorced my husband of 20 plus years after i caught him in an affair with a young co worker in her 20’s. He is 45. They are both sheriffs deputies. He lied and lied, cheated and in the end blamed me for it. He tried to say I am mentally ill, he said I was crazy. All the while he was lying to me and his only teenage son. He left and changed all bank accounts and stopped paying my sons college tuition. He acted like a total idiot. I finally had enough. I hired an aggressive male attorney , cut of all contact with the ex , shut of all my emotions and took him to court. The divorce was a nightmare. I came out the winner. I was awarded permanent alimony and half of his army retirement. I am so over him. I don’t need a person who is capable to just walk away from his family. In the end he lost it all. His home, his family, his money, his child, his past. For what ? Some hot sex with this young girl who called him so hot. Please , she can have him. Divorcibg him was the best decision I ever made. Nobody disrespects me like this. I cost me a fortune in legal feed but I fought and prevailed. After all he is the loser , the coward, the idiot , who gave it all up.
    This article is very well written. Do I care if he regrets cheating ? Absolutely not Cheating is a choice. If you chose evil you will face the consequences. on the other hand I am free now, I am at peace and most importantly nobody lies to me anymore. His son wants nothing to do with him I hope the little whore was worth giving up his life. But that’s his problem. For ever I owe her. He cheated with her , he will cheat on her.

    • Rachel August 27, 2014 at 3:15 am #

      Kaya, good for you!!!!
      I too came out a winner as well.
      Divorce is hard, but I had no other choice and don’t regret a minute of it.
      My ex blames me now and tells my boys that he wanted me back on divorce day with his big tears and attorney rubbing his back.
      He forgets my boys heard the same words I did. I don’t want you or our marriage.
      Good luck kaya!

  57. Kaya August 26, 2014 at 7:14 pm #

    Why in the world would you want to keep a husband who cheated on you? Where is your respect , your morales , your integrity. Once a cheater always a cheater. I do not have any sympathy god women who complain about their cheating husband. Divorce him. You might lose material assets but you will keep your self respect. As far as the OW. nobody cares about you. You are just trash to start an affair with a married man with a family. And you can keep him . Starting a relationship with a cheater is a “great” foundation for a lasting and trusting relationship. :)

    • Strengthrequired August 27, 2014 at 2:36 am #

      Kaya, I’m so happy that you have been able to move on with your life with a positive outlook. It seems to have been the best thing for you. You have chosen your path, to leave and divorce your h. Please however do not judge those of us who have stayed with our cs. Most of our cs, were actually good people who lost there way, through depression or midlife crisis. Some of us also have young children that needed to be thought of too, and most of our cs have been remorseful.
      Yet we who believe our cs deserved the chance to redeem themselves for the sake of our families and life together, did so because we felt it was right for us, just as you felt it right for you to divorce your h.
      So please be happy for those of us who have a cs that wants to keep their marriage in tact, just like we are happy for you with the choice you made.
      I do wish you well and hope you have a wonderful future and meet someone that is truly deserving of you. No one deserves this type of pain thrust upon them, we all deserve to be happy no matter whether we choose to stay or go.
      Hugs to you

      • forcryin'outloud August 27, 2014 at 8:37 am #

        Well said SR!!!

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