male infidelity

By Sarah P.

If you have been through an affair, you have come a long way, baby.

You know your story backwards and forwards and have become a wiser person. You have been able to piece together how you got there and how far you have come. (By the way, I do smoke and I do not support smoking. You will see several Virginia Slims advertisements throughout this post because they are relevant iconography, which represent cultural shifts.)

I wanted to add a twist to this whole story and look at gender roles and how underneath female gender roles of the past, it is implied that these roles were meant to curtail male infidelity.

Specifically, I wanted to focus on roles within the past seventy or so years. I want to look at the concept of the perfect housewife from the 1950’s and what was expected from her, versus what was expected from her husband at the time.

I wanted to examine how her expected purity and wholesomeness is a throwback to an older archetype and that this archetype was originally contrived to keep women in their place but also to prevent male infidelity.

Then, I wanted to look at the transition time beginning in the early 70’s. The reason this time period stands out to me is because during a span of about 17 years, we witnessed one of the largest sociological shifts known the western society—the change from the demure and shrinking housewife to the rise of the feminist woman.

I want to take a look at how different expectations were in the 1950’s as compared to what they are now. The difference is so shocking that it’s difficult to even imagine a time when women were treated in such insulting ways. Of course, it was not just the 1950’s, it was pretty much all throughout history.

Why is this important?

Well, in a roundabout way, I believe that the pressure on the 1950’s housewife to be perfect was meant to be a preventative measure to a husband’s potential infidelity. Affairs in the 1950’s were rampant and men mostly carried them on. The divorce rate skyrocketed. There was a theory that if a woman was the perfect wife, then her husband will be happy at home and won’t need to go elsewhere.

I believe that this is a theory that has been carried on since the beginning of time. The burden of a good marriage falls on women. The assumption was that women could bring a man down or raise him up. The woman was responsible.

If a husband chose to stray, it was because of a deficiency in his wife.  If a woman was the perfect wife, her children would be happy because their father would be invested in the family. If a woman were the perfect wife, then all would be well on the home front. But, God-forbid that a man had an affair or wasn’t happy at home. His behavior was evidence that, well, that a woman was not a perfect wife—that she was deficient.

When I was thinking about this, I made the connection that as far as we know, a sub-set of men have always been unfaithful. Throughout the ages, men have probably been unfaithful in seemingly equal numbers. Women have been told to change, and we women have changed in many ways, but our changes have never changed the rate of which husbands are unfaithful. Therefore, I think it is interesting to look at expectation placed on women and whether or not their good or bad actions affected men in any way.

Don’t Misbehave!

I think the reason it is important to look at what was expected of the perfect 1950’s- style wife is because she symbolizes the ultimate effort on the part of society to change women so that their husbands and male society would be happy. And yet, we can infer that the 1950’s housewife was an epic fail because almost immediately after her invention, some women began to rebel. By the early 1970’s, women were rebelling en masse and the name of their rebellion was Feminism.

In the 1950’s Dr. George Crane authored several books about how women should behave and what makes a good wife. One of his books was centered around a quiz where husbands could analyze 50 different characteristics of their wives and either give them a demerit or a point based on each behavior. It was called the Marital Rating Scale and men who purchased the book used it to figure out if their wives measured up. (Such a funny thing that there was no similar book that measured men to see if they ‘measured up.’)

But, before I show you the Marital Rating Scale in its entirety, I wanted to point out some of the most outrageous things that were expected of women, according to the male author.

The following items earned a wife a demerit:

  • #3: Fails to sew on buttons and darn socks regularly
  • #5: Wears red nail polish
  • #9: Puts her cold feet on her husband
  • #16: Squeezes toothpaste at the top
  • #27: Is more than 15 pounds overweight
  • #31: Fails to wash top of the milk bottle

The following items earned a wife a point:

  • #27: Praises husband in public
  • #29: Writes to husband’s parents regularly
  • #33: Often comments on husband’s strength and masculinity
  • #35: Gives husband a shampoo and manicure
  • #39: Keeps herself dainty, perfumed, and feminine
  • #41: Has minor children to care for. (Extra 5 points per child.)
  • #49: Praises marriage to other young women

I don’t know about you, but I am seeing some inherent conflicts in this list. Because, let’s say she has a house full of ten children. I don’t know how she would possibly be able to remain perfumed and dainty and keep a pre-pregnancy shape on top of it all. In fact, I don’t know how she would have time to accomplish anything on the entire 50-point list if she has more than one child.

 

marital rating scale

 

marital rating scale 2

 

Marital rating scale 3

 

Marital rating scale 4

 

Advertising during the 1950’s tended to reinforce this idea of a wife as a child. Because she was a child, she was liable to be spanked if she misbehaved. No, this type of spanking was not consensual and it was not part of the BDSM community, which really did not exist in large numbers at that time. This spanking was meant to punish a ‘bad wife’ and to make her feel ashamed for being such a bad wife.

if husband finds out
This woman obviously received too many demerits for being a ‘bad wife.’

 

But, had society seen anything like the archetype of the 1950’s housewife before? Yes, society had seen it before. This type of woman had a different name during a different century and this woman was called ‘The Angel in the House.’

“The popular Victorian image of the ideal wife/woman came to be “the Angel in the House”; she was expected to be devoted and submissive to her husband. The Angel was passive and powerless, meek, charming, graceful, sympathetic, self-sacrificing, pious, and above all – pure.

The phrase “Angel in the House” comes from the title of an immensely popular poem by Coventry Patmore, in which he holds his angel-wife up as a model for all women. Believing that his wife Emily was the perfect Victorian wife, he wrote “The Angel in the House” about her (originally published in 1854, revised through 1862).

Though it did not receive much attention when it was first published in 1854, it became increasingly popular through the rest of the nineteenth century and continued to be influential into the twentieth century. For Virginia Woolf, the repressive ideal of women represented by the Angel in the House was still so potent that she wrote, in 1931, “Killing the Angel in the House was part of the occupation of a woman writer.” (1)

Here is an excerpt from Coventry Patmore’s poem:

“Waits by, expecting his remorse,
With pardon in her pitying eyes;
And if he once, by shame oppress’d,
A comfortable word confers,
She leans and weeps against his breast,
And seems to think the sin was hers;
Or any eye to see her charms,
At any time, she’s still his wife,
Dearly devoted to his arms;
She loves with love that cannot tire;
And when, ah woe, she loves alone,
Through passionate duty love springs higher,
As grass grows taller round a stone.” (1)

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So, yes, this archetype was alive and well during the later Victorian period. As you can see from the poem, the Angel/Wife takes all of the sins of her husband as her sins. This type of wife was expected to love her husband even during times when he did not love her, or if he did things that were shameful.

This was supposed to be a good thing, as evidenced in the last two lines state. Perhaps this worked during a time when women had no voting or property rights. Women were still in essence considered to be chattel by the laws and wider society of the time.

But, did that beautiful, pure, dainty Angel in the House prevent her husband from cheating? No.

During the Victorian Era there was more written pornography published than during any other time period. Syphilis was also at an all-time high. I read an account of a socialite who, as a virgin, was married off to a handsome, young doctor. She contracted syphilis soon after being married and her father allowed her to annul the marriage.

Again, I am interested in exploring these ‘perfect’ female archetypes and exploring whether or not the ‘perfect woman’ had any impact on the incidence of male infidelity at the time. We can learn a lot from history and in a way, knowing about what worked and didn’t work in the past can pave a way to a better future. We cannot know who we are without knowing where we came from.

During the 1930’s, Virginia Wolfe decided to “kill” the archetype of the Angel in the House through her writing. It is interesting to note that this archetype remained dead for only a couple of decades and then made her resurgence under a different name: the perfect 1950’s housewife.

 

 

woman in kitchen
I wonder if she remembered to wash the top of the milk bottle before opening it?

 

So, how did sexuality fit into the 1950’s?

Was the 1950’s as clean as it has been presented and did the perfect housewife keep the family together? I found an interesting article in Ms. Magazine about the 1950’s. In this article, the author found that…brace yourself….women who did not have a certain type of orgasm contributed to the breakdown of the family unit. Amy Williams noted,

“Americans in the early Cold War period were not having good sex, apparently. At this time, many psychiatrists, marriage counselors and gynecologists worried that women were failing to perform in the bedroom. Research has shown that they saw “frigidity”–which was largely defined as a woman’s inability to have a vaginal orgasm with her husband–as a culprit in the breakdown of the contemporary marriage and family unit.” (2)

Divorce had actually skyrocketed by the 1950’s and the break down of marriage and family was once again being blamed on women. Some in society absurdly blamed women and their orgasms (or not) as the culprit that was breaking up the family. That’s just one of those things that induces head scratching and wonder at how male, academic scholars at the time could link female sexual mechanics to the breakdown of the family. I mean, really? Don’t just blame the woman – blame her orgasm!!

I think Freud solidified this incorrect attitude. He really saw many different things that were wrong with women due to her sexuality. Or rather, he interpreted normal things about a woman’s sexuality to be linked directly to different types of (what he considered to be) neuroses.  I believe he also helped solidify the medical diagnosis of “hysteria,” which was directly related to the idea that a uterus could cause mental illness. In Latin, hysteria means “of the womb” and in Greek it means “suffering in the womb.”

But, hysteria was written about even as far back as ancient Egypt. The ancient Egyptians felt that a woman developed hysteria if her uterus spontaneously moved. A woman could be diagnosed as hysterical if she did any one of the following:

  • did not procreate enough
  • was involved in activities deemed as witchcraft (which was everything)
  • if she sinned in any way
  • if she had insomnia, epilepsy or depression
  • if she fainted

But, those were only a small amount of complaints compared to how the wider diagnosis of hysteria unfolded through history. Freud simply solidified this concept in the modern age.

Back to how women and their sexuality were seen through the lens of the late 1940’s and 1950’s

“During the war, promiscuous American women were considered to be a threat to national security because they had the potential to contaminate American soldiers (who were fighting in the war) with sexually transmitted diseases like syphilis. While Cold War medical experts did not explicitly control women’s sexuality in the same way that the U.S. Public Health Service controlled sexuality through forced detention (yes, the U.S. Public Health Service forcibly hospitalized and treated “loose women” for venereal diseases during the war, John Parascandola wrote in a Bulletin of the History of Medicine article last year), these medical experts attempted to contain women’s sexuality through an “othering” of normal sexual behaviors like masturbation and premarital sex. In “curing” women of their sexual maladjustments through psychotherapy and premarital examinations, medical experts were attempting to backpedal on women’s progress. They were putting women in their place: out of the workforce, out of the back seat of the automobile and into the safe confines of a suburban bedroom.” (2)

Wow, what an utterly charming society to live in. (Sarcasm.)

Note that the in an attempt to circumvent the spread of diseases like syphilis, they pointed all efforts toward those terrible, promiscuous women. They went as far as to put these women in detention centers. I am going to assume that the detention centers for promiscuous women were just one step down from being put in jail.

No one mentions telling men to ‘keep it in their pants’

My second boyfriend in college had a father who believed ‘keeping it in his pants’ was the solution to all of the woes of the world. If he failed a semester, his father said in a huff, “You shoudda kept it in your pants, son!” If he wanted to change college majors, his father angrily asked, “why couldn’t you keep it in your pants, son?” It is comical looking back on it now, but it was not funny at the time because he was a serious, shy student and did not attend parties or goof off. Incidentally, this is one of the few long-term relationships I have experienced where the man never cheated.

So, I cannot help but wonder why male members of society refused to point fingers at other male members of society?

I think I know why. In anthropology we learn that every society has had and also needs a scapegoat. Think Pagan executions of virgins (scapegoat) or Salem Witch Trials (scapegoat) or men who have affairs and the wife is blamed (scapegoat.) Societies need someone or something to blame. Women seemed to fit the bill every time and it worked for men all across this great nation because they didn’t have to take accountability for their bad behavior or their unscrupulous choices.

Of course at the time, the double standard was still in full-force as well

Boys will be boys was often repeated many times a day. Men were having affairs in the 1950’s and when it happened, the blame always fell on the wife. “She was frigid and so he had an affair” or “obviously she was a bad wife and mom because her husband cheated.” The book that I showed you several paragraphs ago serves to reinforce this idea.

I think the woman of the 1950’s probably tried to live up to these standards. But, I think they must have become disheartened when men didn’t change one bit in response to their efforts. Men still drank, gambled, had affairs, had illegitimate children, and still physically beat their wives and children.

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It all makes sense because we have learned that the only person anyone can change is himself or herself. So, no amount of being the perfect 1950’s housewife was going to change a man dead set on carousing, drinking, and having many affairs.

I am pretty sure that something snapped inside of the female collective consciousness when they saw the outcome of their efforts. They changed, but the men around them didn’t change. In fact, I am pretty sure that they were all having private epiphanies while doing the dishes each night.

if looks could kill

After all, over the span of about 15 years, women went from having a strict set of rules being imposed upon them to getting empowered and becoming free-range or shall I say “free rage” feminists? Women were throwing away the girdles and burning their bras. Women were having sexual relationships prior to marriage and sometimes many sexual relationships prior to marriage.

Enter the era of Ms. Magazine and Female Empowerment. Companies like Virginia Slims got on the bandwagon and they were asserting not the equality, but the superiority of women.

As far as I can tell, this was the most profound sociological change that ever occurred. What is more surprising is that this change took place in the blink of an eye.

By 1971, these were the messages women were receiving in advertisements.
By 1971, these were the messages women were receiving in advertisements.

 

The Era of the Slut

All of a sudden, the predominant message was that women are okay the way that they are—in fact, biologically superior even! Soon, birth control pills became widely available and Roe vs. Wade was legalized. Soon, women adopted a type of sexuality similar to the sexuality men had all along.

Now, men could go to a bar and have any number of women to choose from to take home. Men should have been happy. But, were they?

Nope.

That just caused us to enter the era of The Slut. Men were finally getting what they wanted—sex with every type of woman in existence – but, boy, they were not happy. Simultaneously, they looked for someone to warm their bed at night while calling that very woman A Slut. They were having their cake, eating it too, and blaming the very person who was serving the cake.

Say what?

Virginia Slims tool kit

 

So what does this survey of these cultural shifts have to do with male infidelity?

To figure out what is going on, context, history, and society’s views need to be taken into account. Infidelity never occurs in a vacuum and infidelity is currently the largest threat to a civil society. One cannot have a society that works if everyone comes from broken homes.

Here is how I picture adultery:

Back in the olden days, the Dutch started reclaiming land from the sea. This was very important to them because they needed to grow food on this reclaimed land so that they could feed their people. They built strong dikes to fight back the sea and to ensure that their countrymen, countrywomen, and children were fed. Food security allowed Holland to become a first world nation and these strong sea walls were essential for their society if they wanted to progress and remain and first-world nation.

If a dike failed, poof!—it all went away just like that. Their society was destroyed and most towns are now underwater. No more cities, no more farmland, no more food, no more stable country.

So how could these sea walls fail? They failed because of water. Water is really a magical thing because it cleanses, it is essential for life to exist, it can be a thing of great beauty or it can be a thing of great destruction since it erodes. Water always finds the lowest, weak point in anything, including a strong sea wall.

In this case, the ocean is like sexuality…

It needs to be put in its proper place, which is within marriage (behind the seawall).  Infidelity is like the water that starts to wear away at the sea wall. It comes in so softly and so slightly that no one pays attention. Water (sex) automatically goes to the weakest point in the sea wall (marriage). If the seawall is strong and has been engineered correctly, the water might try to get in, but it does not succeed.

Let’s say the water (sex) finds many weak points in the seawall (marriage). Without notice, it slowly forms tiny cracks so small that no one sees. Everyone is too busy farming and living their lives. Pretty soon, all of those cracks weaken the foundation and structure of the seawall. In an instant, the sea floods in and it obliterates everything in its path. The marriage crumbles and everything within the marriage is now destroyed.

This is what infidelity does to marriages and if all marriages are infected with infidelity, there is no stable society. Everyone is living in chaos, mistrust, split assets, and living with broken hearts.

Often the result is trauma. I don’t remember who said this, but I do remember that it was a male infidelity expert and psychologist. He said that what turns garden-variety tragedy into severe trauma and even PTSD is when a person’s life expectations are violated.

He was speaking within the context of infidelity; I believe this is a very significant definition of trauma as caused by infidelity. Most people go into their marriage absolutely trusting, loving, and thinking that they will have a bright future. They believe that the person they marry would never be cruel enough to stray. But, then it happens. The expectations have been violated and the betrayed spouse does not suffer garden-variety tragedy that goes away, she suffers the kind of trauma that can stay with her/him forever.

Some Interesting Facts & Statistics

I wanted to take a quick segue and look at some more recent infidelity statistics. Dr. Kelly James Bonewell says:

“In a recent Barna study, 4 out of 10 Americans believe that adultery is morally acceptable. For Christians, that number was 1 out of 10. Perhaps there is no reason to wonder why adultery is on the rise. When reading research about those who have affairs, the statistics can vary greatly. Most researchers come to this general conclusion:

That over a third of married men will cheat on their wives; That nearly a quarter of all married women will cheat on their husbands; And that more than 50% of all marriages will be impacted by one of the spouses being unfaithful. Grim statistics if you think about them. Here are some other interesting facts that we know: 

Back in the 1960’s it was usually the husband who was unfaithful. Today, researchers are finding that women are just as likely as men to have an affair. As a way of comparison to how adultery has become more prevalent: a 1983 study found that 29 percent of married people under twenty-five had had an affair. By comparison, only 9 percent of spouses in the 1950s under the age of 25 had been involved in extramarital sex. Ten percent of extramarital affairs are “one night stands;” ten percent last more than one day, but less than a month; half of all affairs last more than a month but less than a year; and 40 percent last two or more years (Lampe, 2000). There is growing psychological evidence that adulterous behavior in parents dramatically affects children when they reach adulthood. Research also tells us that just as divorce in a family influences the likelihood of the adult children to consider divorce, adulterous behavior by parents seems to beget similar behavior by their children. Here is maybe the most important statistic—a recent University of Chicago study discovered that a third of all marriages end in divorce because of an affair. It is vital that we understand how adultery happens and effects individuals, marriages and families. Countless times I have sat with couples or individuals who been swayed into being unfaithful to their spouse and then have to face the ramifications of those choices. And I am not immune; in my own life, I have seen this same struggle and temptation. I too am bombarded by the message of my culture, “You are your own. You don’t have to answer to anyone. Go ahead…No one will know.” While I have been faithful up to this point in my marriage, I know that without being intentional and walking a narrow path, I too, could just become another statistic.” (3)

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Dr. Bonewell is writing from the perspective of a Christian and he admits that he himself has been intentional in walking a narrow path. He does not hide from the fact that he too has faced temptation and has made the conscious choice NOT to stray. He is admirable in his candor. So, once again, he notes that affairs are an intentional choice that someone must make despite the temptation.

And yet, the idea persist that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence

I had an interesting experience last week involving fences and greener grass. We suspected that our septic system was failing and we called a septic builder/designer. We stood on an area of parched grass and he, the septic builder, silently looked around.

Finally, he said, “That, now that is a problem.”

He pointed to several green tufts of grass just beyond our fence.

He said, “Do you see that lush, green grass on the other side of your fence? That grass is a big problem for you.”

We didn’t quite understand.

He gave us a puzzled look since we didn’t understand something that was so obvious to him.

He continued, “You see this dead grass that we are standing on?”

He kicked and stomped the dead grass. “This is the type of grass that you want. When you are talking about septic tanks, green grass is a very big problem.

He squinted and pointed, “That green grass on the other side of your fence is a big problem.”

Yeah, my husband and I were unusually dense that day and still did not know to what the all-knowing septic designer was referring. After all, didn’t most people try to get lawns full of lush, green grass? Wasn’t that part of the American dream? Wasn’t this every man’s goal?

Nope.

According to the septic designer, dead, flat, yellow-brown grass meant everything in the septic system was healthy.

Green grass was the enemy of septic systems. We still didn’t get it.

Finally, the septic designer said something so noteworthy that I took notice. It was so brilliant that I immediately felt it would make a really great meme, especially when it comes to affairs.

grass full of shit

That’s right, that’s what the frustrated septic designer said to us two dense people who just did not get it.

What was obvious to him was not at all obvious to us. And yet—in its crass bluntness, the words were so elegant, so apropos. The concept was so smart, even in all of its vulgarity, when applied to infidelity.

This random phrase of profundity, from an unexpected source, smartly summed it up.

When people are married, the grass often looks greener on the other side of the fence. But, if someone is stupid enough to go and get the grass on the other side of the fence, they had better not look or smell too closely. If they do, they will soon find out that the grass contains a really ‘shitty’ situation.

All that seems green and lush is actually full of septic black water. This is the heart of the affair. It looks so tantalizing and so much better than what someone stands on. Yet, once someone is in a bit deeper, they are neck deep in a terrible situation and neck deep in black water. They thought they were neck deep in a bad situation before and they left a perfectly healthy situation for something that turns out to be quite the opposite. They are the ultimate fool and traded something good in for a load of crud.

Back to women and social roles

It is apparent to me that all of these social roles that we have seen throughout history have meant to repress and control women. But, the other underlying intention was to make women so flawless that men wouldn’t cheat. Historically, men have not been held accountable for their choices. Male society has generally assumed that it was the woman’s fault that they (the men) cheated and so the men designed social roles with the intent of making women perfect. They figured they would not cheat on perfect women. But, they did cheat on perfect women and they still do.

When it comes to affairs, I have observed that men will come up with any excuse to cheat. They will turn a positive into a negative just to relieve their guilt. If they have a tall blond at home some will find fault with her because she is not a curvy brunette – and vice versa – anything to excuse their choice. Men have even told me as much.

That doesn’t mean that women shouldn’t try to be the best versions of themselves. Women should try to be the best versions of themselves and they do it specifically for themselves. Women feel better when they do and men generally appreciate the effort.

It doesn’t prevent cheating, but that’s not the point. A woman being the best version of herself will always make her feel good about herself. It adds to self-esteem.

The Big Picture

But, all of what I have written today is part of a much bigger picture and it’s a picture that spans hundreds of thousands of generations. What we know about causes of infidelity and healing of infidelity is still a very small tip of a very large iceberg. We are trying our best to keep this destructive force at bay.

One of my intentions is to notice and examine all of those small cracks in the proverbial seawall. I like to figure out what they are to tell warn people about them. My intention is to get the information out there; to sound the alert when I see something wrong. My intention is to continue the work toward keeping that tremendous seawall mostly intact– to teach others how to fix those cracks in the seawall so that everything they worked for can be saved.

It may be a large battle, but it is a worthy one because I believe that not only our marriages and families, but also our societies are at stake. Nothing is more valuable than hearth and home, than securing our children’s and grandchildren’s futures, and fighting the battle against infidelity. Fighting this battle is a fight for all of these good and meaningful things in our lives—things that are worthy of our protection and our best effort.

No matter what the battle, don’t ever give up or lose faith. You, your marriage, and your family are worth it.

*********

How has your week been? Were any of you housewives during the 1950’s, or did you have mothers or grandmothers who were? What was their story?

 

Sources

The Angel in the House. From http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/english/melani/novel_19c/thackeray/angel.html

Williams, Amy. What Was(n’t) So Great About the 1950s? Part II: Sex! From http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/07/23/what-wasnt-so-great-about-the-1950s-part-ii-sex/

Bonewell, Dr. Kelly James. Adultery: Just the Statistics. From http://www.kellybonewell.com/adultery-just-the-statistics/

 

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    40 replies to "You Have Come A Long Way, Baby! – Female Gender Roles as an Attempt to Curtail Male Infidelity"

    • Mike

      March 8, 2016:

      “Summary of the 2016 Annual Reader Survey

      We’re sure you’ve been waiting with baited breath for the results of our most recent reader survey which we conducted last week. So we’re gonna present that to you here in this rather detailed – and long – post. . . .

      . . . Reader Suggestions

      We got a ton of topic suggestions, which we thank you for. There are certainly some very good suggestions and we will attempt to address as many of them as we can in the coming months.

      Men out there…We hear ya! We acknowledge that often the articles tend to have a man-as-the-cheater slant to them and that is really just a function of our own experiences and the fact that our main readership has always been women. But we will certainly add some more articles that are man-as-the-betrayed focused.”

      We don’t need “man-as-the-betrayed focused” articles either.

      A core theme of most (if not all) of the recent articles on this blog (at least the last ten) have been gender-focused and either state or imply that based on what people are (i.e., male, female, etc.) can predispose them to doing something or not doing something when it comes to infidelity.

      However, in an honest examination of affairs, with a few psychological exceptions (e.g., narcissistic personal disorder, anti-social personality disorder) the focus should not be on what people are, but instead, who they are (e.g., honest, dishonest, selfish, not selfish, etc.). Accordingly a proper analysis centers, not so much on the gender of a person, but more so on their character, their experiences that shaped that character, and the consequences of the conscious choices made based upon that.

      From my own experience, I discovered that good couple crisis counselors at some point make both the betrayer and the betrayed, look inward at themselves as to the cause of the affair; to examine their pasts and the other things that make them the people they are and behave the way they behave.

      For me, as the betrayed, I was not at fault for the occurrence of the affair, but was equally (and I say for the sake of argument, more than equally) at fault for the conditions that led to the affair. By weather analogy, I was not guilty of the tornado warning, but was guilty for a big part of the tornado watch. From that, I changed by entire life in my approach to my wife to make sure we would never have to rebuild from rubble again.

      Conversely, painting with the broad brush of gender leaves messy drips, such as this gem:
      “A man will cheat if he wants to cheat.”

      (Well, I am a man and I made a conscious decision as an individual not to cheat and have never done so. My wife is a woman and she did (EA) when she was given an opportunity).
      And another missive such as this:

      “I believe this is why women stay, even when men are chumps, even when men stray, women find wholeness in marriage. To give up the marriage would be like amputating one of your most beloved limbs.”

      (It’s a long story for later, but my wife was shoving me out the door the first week the EA started and engaged in an eight month bring of addictive and risky behaviors in her EA to where, had I divorced her then, she would not only lost me, but the children, the pets and the home as well, so I don’t see the “wholeness” in that).

      When it comes to gender in affairs, the one statistic I agree with is that in heterosexual affairs, there are as many women participants as there are men. I first came to this site in February, 2011, the night I discovered the EA. There have been many good articles and commenters who over the years I have greatly enjoyed. Without naming all, if The First Wife is not a counselor, she should be, as she looks right past gender and sees the real issue.

      For example, she writes:

      “In my honest opinion if your spouse is going to cheat he/she is going to cheat. Nothing you do will prevent it. I think this article is petty minded and gives rise to game playing and forces spouses to act like they are in middle school.”

      Scott is also someone I would like to acknowledge. I could not have written my thoughts down any better when it comes to the stab of betrayal and the grim determination to carry on thereafter.

      My personal thanks to them both and all the rest.

      And as for my present feedback: If the present goal is to turn this blog into gender-war clickbait for the sake of hits, then the current themes and focus are working. However, if the goal is to continue to provide a great resource for persons seeking answers and for fellowship among individuals experiencing the trauma of infidelity, then you need to closely look at where you presently heading.

      • TheFirstWife

        Thank you for your kind words. I am here to be helpful to others.

        I agree with your post about this blog – it should be a place of support (even though I believe more women post than men) but the same advice goes for both Husband and Wife.

        I think I liked the posts better on what we can do in recovery and how to navigate many of those issues.

        The affair happened otherwise we would not be here. And Linda & Doug had a wonderful idea on how to help others along. Some marriages survive infidelity and sadly, some do not.

        I was not a fan of the last post except it proves you can be victimized no matter what. I get that. I have seen those types before – both men & women.

        I think this is why so many people shy away from therapy or counseling. This last post inundated me with thoughts and comparisons and studies. Too much(for me).

        After 3 years with a wonderful therapist my H is now going (different one) but on his own. ?. His approach is different and works for my H. Me? Give it to me straight and I will work on a solution. My therpist was perfect for me. Cut to the chase kind of guy. His one comment to me was I was the calmest about to be divorced person he ever met. I was broken up and rolled up in a ball crying my heart out many many months BUT I still had to function and be brave in front of my kids.

        I didn’t have any other options b/c I thought any second I will be a single parent with no $$. Scary thoughts.

        And this blog helped with my PTSD, my H’s continued lying and so many things. Doug even emailed me once some helpful info on why my H “doesn’t remember certain details if the affair”. It helped tremendously.

        I would like to see this blog get back to basics – recovery, support, good ideas on books, tools, tips and insights into a healthy strong marriage.

        I think the one positive we have is the support we show each other. I don’t think I would have survived some days b/c my family didn’t want to deal with it and cut me loose and I had very few people I trusted b/c of the town gossip and trying to protect my kids from this.

      • TheFirstWife

        And Mike my H was leaving me for the OW a number of times – once very early on in the relationship and second was round 2 / DDay2.

        Now?

        He deeply regrets all of it and realizes what a terrible mistake it would have been had he made that choice. He woke up at the last possible second.

      • Mike

        The First Wife,

        My apologies for the slow reply. I work 10+ hours, six days a week and outside some sleep, I give the rest to the family.

        Again, a big thanks to you (and many others like Blueskyabove). Through this site, I have followed the comments from all of you over the years, reading about your events, getting your perspectives and empathizing along with your feelings concerning infidelity. At the very least, you all have helped at least one person along his journey: me.

        The value choices individuals make, both good and bad, are gender-neutral. By way of example, thank you for sharing the information that your spouse, on his own, has sought out and is seeing a counselor. When reading this, the key phrase I picked up on is, “but on his own”. So your spouse, who has previously, grievously wronged you, has made a conscious choice, an exercise of his free will, a choice without made without duress or under force, to work with someone to repair/improve/protect his relationship with you?

        To me, such a choice says that to him now, his relationship with you has value and (more importantly) you matter. Moreover, his deep regret also reflects a choice as to how he choose to feel about his past poor choices and genuine sorrow is a big step toward repentance and redemption.

        It’s important to all of us that we have value, that we are wanted by someone else, faults and all. That need is also gender-neutral.

        As to your opinion that this blog needs to get back to the basics, I could not have said it any more correctly, concisely or clearly. You also correctly state that more women than men post on this site. However, that does not necessarily mean that men do not regularly visit it. As just one example, I have visited this site almost daily for five and a half years (even going into the archived articles), but the first time I ever posted anything on it was yesterday. In addition, I have also referred many men, women and couples to it as a supplemental resource (after first stating that selection of one (or more) competent couples-crisis counselors is primary).

        I made yesterday’s post solely out of concern. I just don’t want some betrayed guy, lost and looking for help, assistance, fellowship and direction, getting on a site and leaving it thinking, he may be the cause of the affair because of WHAT (and not WHO) he is and that because of the gender he is, he himself may be predisposed to engaging in the same conduct (e.g., “A man will cheat if he wants to cheat”). I believe that such an event would not be consistent with the spirit upon which Linda and Doug founded this site.

        As to basics, a big one I learned was the notion of ‘unconditional love’. As for me (a betrayed spouse whose spouse continued on her eight-month EA binge after D-day), I learned what unconditional love was really about the moment I came to the realization that I was to stand my ground in preservation of our marriage, not DESPITE my spouse and what she was doing, but instead, FOR my spouse and what she was doing; that she was lost in a cloud, heading toward a fall off the edge of the marital cliff and her spouse should be there to catch her because she matters to him, faults and all.
        I also learned that, while unconditional love is patient, kind, does not envy, etc., etc., it is also not a doormat, not co-dependent, not a martyr, not a license to abuse, not permission to be selfish, not a right to betray and above all, is not to be taken for granted. We are in the process of going over that together with a (great) counselor now.

        I don’t post much, if at all, and will probably go completely dormant after this reply. So as for my story? It’s long, but in short summary, it involved my spouse, her affair partner (a college boyfriend from twenty years ago who looked up my spouse and who is married to an executive with a national company who paid all of his bills), my spouse and her affair partner on the internet/cell phones with a bunch of romantic, nasty emails, texts, blech, yuck, ick, etc. between them, a national, professional athletic association and its website, three states, two sets of attorneys, a team of (very good) computer experts and me.

        Pretty crazy stuff? Even more crazy in the end I had, quietly, over eight months set it set up where he would lose his job, career, marriage (and bill payer), all in the same hour by exposing to the world (and his spouse and association) all of his poor choices and conduct.

        The night he was groveling to me to please let him go, with the promise that he would never darken our door again, I also knew that if I exposed him, I would also be exposing my spouse and she would lose her job, career and (most likely) marriage.

        Even though there was overwhelming desire to extract just deserts on someone who had come into my life, without provocation, with the intent to interfere with and destroy my marriage and family, in the end, my love for (and value of) my spouse (and God), was stronger. I chose family. I chose her. I chose love. I’d choose it all again if need be.

        So, it’s all about the choices we all, as individuals, make.

    • blueskyabove

      Mike,

      All I can say is “Amen!”

    • Rachel

      Again, what is with these people looking up the old girlfriend / boyfriend ?????

      • TheFirstWife

        Living in the past and trying to recapture youth. Plain & simple (IMO).

        Honestly if any old BF of mine popped up it would not go very far. You are an exBF for a reason (probably cheated) sooooo move along.

    • Sam

      UPDATE:
      My dad actually came around to cut our hedge. I asked not to see him, but he just stormed into my room, and started asking me questions about what I am doing for the seven months that he has not contacted me, and also my brother. He started crying in the kitchen about what he had done. He then just yesterday he came around to finish off, and everytime I walked past him and he just laughed (my mum says that it is just a nervous laugh, because if he didn’t laugh he would start crying). Later on me and my mum had to go somewhere, I went around to the front of the house so I didn’t have to see or talk to him. My mum was talking to him and she said that he was crying hysterically at what he had done. He said that her son that he hates to death has moved out and gone to live with his dad [she probably kicked him out of the house, because she knows how much he dispises him and her kids anti-social, arrogent attitude] – terrible mother IMO. When [we] ask him if he is happy with the OW and living in her tiny two bedroom two up-two down shanty town house; he just says: “yeah, it’s okay….”, with NOT much conviction, asif he is trying to convince himself. He still says he ‘loves my mum’. In his face he look absolutely ‘unhappy’ and ‘miserable’. My mothers friends seem to think that things are NOT TOO GOOD down there with the OW, hense why he is all of a sudden offering to do all of these jobs for us, surely this must be sending warning signs to the OW (that’s if she knows, which I doubt she does). I suppose the OW’s insecurity (since he dumped and left her twice, once not even telling her) and her checking of his cell phone, internet use, etc. is starting to get to him now. He says that he will draw out an legal agreement that if anything happens to him (she; the OW) will not get or be intitled to his half of his assests: so therefore he cannot love her that much. My brother recently bought a new phone that came with a new number and he wants it, as he wants to talk to him!? For a reason that I don’t know and have no idea why – he hasn’t even tried to contact him for seven (close to eight months) now!!!
      Is he finally waking up from the affair-fog, is he starting to finally regret what he has done!?!?

      • TheFirstWife

        Hi Sam. How are you doing with this?

        And how is your mom reacting?

        It could be he is looking to see if he has a home to come back to and whether he would be welcomed.

        • Sam

          I’m doing fine, but cannot but think he is up to something… My mum starts crying, but after a while they start to talk like normal. After a while they seem to get on better then they have for the last year that they have been married – and I think if the OW saw thinks she would be bitter and envious. He never talks about her infront of us (neither good or bad) about her. He may have dumped her months ago and we wouldn’t have known.

          @FirstWife: Do you think things with the OW are going so well? (….as my mum’s two friends have said)?!?!?

    • TheFirstWife

      I would have a hard time knowing about OW.

      But I think it may not be as big a factor right now. It is more important how things are going for your dad.

      Let’s assume everything with OW is fabulous. But your dad comes around.

      Your family needs to decide how to manage his sudden appearances. Your mom may have one thought, you may think diffetently and your brother may have another feeling.

      Come together – the 3 of you – and talk about it. What do you want, your mom want and other family members?

      Set boundaries you can live with. If you decide not to see your dad but your mom wants to, have a plan to make sure everyone gets what they want.

      Don’t let him dictate your family life. The three of you should dictate to him. The OW is not important here.

      Set boundaries with him. He is now like the child and the 3 of you should stick together.

      If he wants to come back it should be agreeable to all 3 of you. If not, someone may need to move out or your dad should not be moving back at that time.

      Given his erratic behavior I would be very cautious. Make him earn it.

      • Sam

        Thanks….
        I just don’t think his relationship with the OW can last much longer, as he is offering to do things for us, which he hasn’t in the past: before he has insulted her calling her an “lowlife alcoholic-junkie”…. and dumped us because he “was bored”, what happens when he bores of her and her family!?!?!? Will he cheat and leave her for another woman? Everyone that knows him says he is “miserable”, and refuses to talk about her and her family!!!

        • TheFirstWife

          Hi Sam. I am glad your dad is making an effort.

          As for the OW that is the current OW right now, if he is “bored” with her then she may be replaced by another OW. And you and your family.

          Your dad needs to face his issues. Or it may be his pattern of behavior continues.

          And that is fine if it does continue but you and your mom & family should not be dragged through the mud or be a party to it.

          If he wants to behave this way he should not be including you & your mom in having to witness it.

    • TryingHard

      Hi Mike
      I’d like to know why it’s taken you so long to post a comment here? I know many people have asked our male counterparts to post but not many have.

      Of course infidelity hits both sexes. Male cheaters have partners who are generally female and probably married as well. They sure aren’t fooling around with themselves.

      I think the reason why the focus is on the female betrayed is because it is the FEMALES who speak up. We are the most prevalent on this site. But it doesn’t mean men aren’t as affected as we are by cheaters bad choices.

      When TFW says “if a man wants to cheat, he will”. For the sake of brevity she/we use a man. And certainly the same is applied to females. Fact is if ANYONE wants to cheat, they will. No amount of doing the right or wrong thing in a marriage will stop it or “open the door” for infidelity in a marriage.

      I hope you’ve at least gotten that cheating is a matter of lack of character and integrity and honesty and a real personal sense of entitlement. Not only honesty with your mate but mostly with yourself.

      I’m not saying you didn’t contribute to your marriage, good or bad. But your wife’s choice to cheat is ALL hers. Apples and oranges.

      Glad you’ve decided to join us. We need more male voices. Now maybe some cheating men will start to post here because of your courage. If you guys want to be included then join in. No one here is going to keep you out. I have a feeling you will be welcomed with open and loving arms.

      • Untold

        I’ve posted off and on here many times before. It’s been four years since my CW looked up and hooked up with her old high school/college boyfriend, and two years since last DDay. We’re still mired in her denial, deceit, rug-sweeping and failed counseling because they skipped right past addressing the affair and onto shared responsibility/improved communication.

        I agree with Mike about the direction of more recent posts. Although the posts are thoughtful and insightful, they do tend to be slanted against men. It’s very off-putting for us male betrayeds, especially since we all know now that current statistics show women cheat just as much as men.

        And it seems the same in counseling. The two we saw favored my wife and her “story” until they got deeper into the relationship. Then when another secret or lie became exposed, or a hostile attack and stonewalling occurred in the office, and they found out what really happened, they were shocked. If only they had been more objective from the start.

        I’ve found myself shifting toward some other sites, but acknowledge this one has been very helpful over the last few years and has lots of good material including reader comments.

    • TryingHard

      Hi Untold
      I remember you posting. Wow it’s such a shame that you have a low grade counselor. I cannot imagine a worse scenario than going to a therapist that wants to put the blame of the wife’s affair onto her husband. That sucks.

      I’ve been so fortunate to find not one but FOUR therapists who have dealt with the affair and NOT the details of the marriage. As long as your wife is STILL in contact with the AP there is no reason to even address any issues in the marriage. Those issues are NOT why she cheats. I cannot believe the crummy therapist you are going to doesn’t address her character issues. How on earth can one heal issues in a marriage if the other one is having an affair?

      I agree this site does have a female bend. Even though Doug, a male, as the host of the blog addresses lots of issues as the cheater male and I think Doug does a great job reaching out to male readers of the blog it’s really we women who comment. So of course articles such as the latest is going to address female issues.

      There are some things male betrayed spouses have in common with female betrayed spouses such as ALL cheaters have character issues, a very twisted sense of entitlement, lack of integrity and commitment. That said I believe once a woman cheats it is very hard to bring her back out of her fantasy of the AP. Women get more emotionally involved and that is a tough thing to break. I feel for all the good guys out there who I know are trying their hardest to please their wives and be good husbands and providers for their families only to have their wives cheat with other guys whom they presume are way better than their current husbands. Which is in no way true. These guys are creeps preying on vulnerable stupid women. They don’t give one shit about these woman. They are side pieces for which they don’t have to be accountable. They get what they want for an hour or so and then text the rest of the time and these dummy women get all riled up by the bullshit these creeps say to them. Sadly THEY BELIEVE IT!!! Trust me guys, THEY BELIEVE IT. So how do you combat that when you’re taking care of your home, children, and work and still have to make sure you are saying and doing all the right thing for your dumb bunny wives???

      If you want a female POV, once she’s emotionally gone from the marriage there is not much you can do. Well you can settle like we women do, but is that good enough for a man? I know if I left my marriage emotionally there would and could not be any going back. Women are just like that. There is no playing catch up. If you think you’ve effed up your marriage to her by you just being you, and she went and found someone else outside the marriage, I’m sorry but it’s too late. This is where I think men and women are soooo different and I truly believe males who are married to cheaters have it much worse.

      My suggestion Untold is find a new therapist. This one is doing you no good. Good Luck to you.

      • Untold

        Thanks TH. FWIW, I don’t think I effed up my marriage at all. I think my wife effed it up by being unfaithful and so terribly deceitful for years even she can’t come to terms with it.

        You may be right about never going back. She still has hostile and contemptuous outbursts and refuses to talk about the state of our marriage. Selfishness bordering on BPD is too common. She says she’s fine, and doesn’t need to learn or do anything to improve our relationship (i.e. still in denial).

        I am seeing a different counselor myself now, periodically, to come to terms with whether I think it’s salvageable or to begin the difficult process of parting. Very discouraging after 29 years of marriage and at this stage of our lives. Nonetheless, I plod on.

    • Mike

      Hi Trying Hard,

      Thank you very much for your kind invitation to me to continue contributing input into the group. I too, like TFW, Blueskyabove, you and the many others who regularly post here, am willing to help others anytime I can, whether that be sharing an experience, lending some sadder-but-wiser story, been-done-that advice, or otherwise.

      And, just to set the record correctly, it was not TFW who is the author of the quote, “A man will cheat if he wants to cheat”. You will find that quote in (I believe) the fifteenth (15th) comment in the previous article (“Spouse Poachers: When it’s open season on your husband, you need to have a plan”). Likewise, you will find the quote, “I believe this is why women stay, even when men are chumps, even when men stray, women find wholeness in marriage. To give up the marriage would be like amputating one of your most beloved limbs”, (I believe) in comment thirty-six (36) of the same article.

      As to why it’s taken me so long to post a comment here?

      One reason is time. My career is very time-demanding, yet I have over the twenty-one (21) years of marriage, made sure to be a father who was genuinely there for his children and who made consistent and good contributions to their lives (including that of a positive parental role model), as a household partner in doing my share of the family work (yard, pets, driving kids to school (don’t have to do that one anymore), cooking, cleaning, etc.) and as a husband (who to this day, still thinks his wife is the hottest – and (wow) she is on an objective scale too), all to the best of my ability.

      And on top of all of that, it was five years ago (in fact on this very day), that I let her groveling affair partner slink away and go free. Yet today, the question remains as to whether our marriage will survive. In the counseling sessions that took place during the height of the affair, something came up in my wife as to a possible root cause for her inability to find connection with me; something so basic that it went all the way back to our first “hello” – something so basic that it appear to concern ‘what’ I am, as opposed to ‘who’ – something so basic that it has been me from the moment I was born – something I can never change it and even if I could, I shouldn’t had to.

      It is something that literally is a matter of WHAT I am, something I have known as far back as the playground in the small-town Midwest. More importantly though, my childhood forced me to know WHO I am at a very early age and actually, I am very, very thankful for that.

      I know who I am, one hundred percent through, faults and all, and I can tell you that I am not even close to perfect – I don’t think anyone is, except God.

      From that, I believe that in times people fall into predicaments, such as with infidelity, it’s sometimes because they don’t, deep down, know who they really are. In support of that, I further believe this is why one of the first things a good counselor does is to make each person look inward, before getting to the business of ‘Oh, well let me tell you about all the things wrong with the other person’.

      In my case though, to my horror, I was shown there can be a stark difference between loving someone and desiring someone; that love and lust are (as the existence of this site is a testament to) sometimes two entirely different matters. And when that difference may be caused by something you can’t or shouldn’t have to change, well, it leaves a lasting mark.

      So, now that the nest is about to be empty, it is me, in the safe environment of a couples’ counselor, who is now asking whether this marriage should go on. Our current counselor is encouraging me to listen to all the evidence and go through all the analysis before making my conclusions final. I have chose to do that, because my wife is worth such consideration, I am worth it and we are worth it.

      This, by itself, however, takes priority and time.

      I could author an entire article on that single topic. . . . Again, if I had the time.

      In addition, for all of us our words, whether spoken or written, have the potential to have a profound impact/influence on others, and such and impact/influence can lead to real-world consequences, good or bad. So again as to time, on a site where others come for assistance, reference and/or fellowship, I want my comments to make a positive contribution to the conversation; to be meaningful, well thought out and not off-the-cuff, glib or from-the-hip nor made with an intent to attack. Dedication to such a commitment also takes a reasonable amount of time.

      So, with all of the above going on, time itself is a commodity that, at this point in my life, is in short supply.

      Another reason is, in all honesty, that the comments (including those from TFW, you and all the others) have over the years have been in my opinion as a general rule, meaningful, thorough, comprehensive and helpful. So to me, interjection on my part would in many cases just have been redundant, non-productive ‘blah, blah’. I don’t communicate for the sake of hearing (or reading) myself communicating, or to put it differently, when the analysis on a topic by readers has been so good, why ruin it with that proverbial, ‘extra brush stroke’?

      My final reason (and notwithstanding the foregoing) however, is that I’m not bashful about saying something when an issue needs addressing (actually, for better or worse, my career demands that from me every day). Moreover, I am more than ready to engage in an honest, intellectual debate on issues if required (also a requisite career component).

      I am making it clear that I am not here to troll this site nor anyone one person on it. But, when I read article after article lately on ‘male infidelity’ and the resulting stereotypes and clichés therein, after myself having been ran over (and then pulled along underneath) the affair bus that my spouse drove along with her affair partner sitting in the passenger seat, for eight months plus after D-day?

      Well Trying Hard, then it’s finally time something needs to be said. And yes, I do so with some bit of restraint, for the sake of keeping it professional (and constructive).

      So, in a constructive way, I argue that gender should not be tossed into simple categories with an ‘us-versus-them’ mannerism or even with any appearance of such. Lumping people into categories as to ‘what’ they are (or are not), creates an atmosphere in which stereotypes and clichés can flourish.

      I like the quote of Junot Diaz (creative writing professor at MIT and fiction editor at the Boston Review) when he says:

      “Stereotypes, they’re sensual, cultural weapons. That’s the way that we attack people. At an artistic level, stereotypes are terrible writing.”

      Or, that of Nancy Kress (writer of published novels):

      “A stereotype may be negative or positive, but even positive stereotypes present two problems: They are clichés, and they present a human being as far more simple and uniform than any human being actually is.”

      Or Harold Evans (British journalist and former editor of the Sunday Times):

      “Attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes and clichés.”

      I do acknowledge that men and women are made different by sex, and as such, I am not arguing that gender does not play any role or should have any consideration whatsoever when it comes to infidelity. Gender, like any other factor, should have its place as one of many things to consider for any individual couple in any individual case. However it should not, like anything else, become the primary focus.

      I believe I could author another article as to stereotypes and clichés I have come across lately, with a reasoned response to each. By way of example, I am not a “Reverse Prince Charming”, nor a “Fallen Prince Charming”, or some ‘good man that doesn’t have a radar for spouse poachers’ . . . . . and I could go on and on and on. . . .

      . . . Instead? Hi, I’m Mike, I’m one hundred percent very (very) male, I’m not six years old, I am the father of two wonderful children, I take personal responsibility for my actions, I made the choices I made when it came to my wife’s betrayal of herself, me and the family based on who (and not what) I am, and, I have had my entire life and the way I viewed couples’ relationships forever changed, hopefully not in a bad way.

      In the further spirit of keeping things constructive, however, I am not saying that recent articles have no value; they do, but, I am voicing concern when it comes to ‘gender-centric’ thinking and this concern is the reason I made my first post; I desire that this site remain a great resource for everyone (men, women and couples) and not become one where any man (or any person) leaves feeling disfranchised or worse yet, misinformed.

      TFW correctly (and concisely) summarized my (long-winded) point in my first post that this blog needs to “get back to basics” At this time, in my opinion, the recent articles seem to be heading toward something else more gender-focused (it’s us and them, as opposed to behavioral-focused) and personally, that is disturbing to me. At a time when couples are facing a crisis issue such as infidelity, I believe that setting them even further apart by separating them into gender categories, may not be particularly beneficial in bringing them back together,

      Instead, as TFW correctly observes, emphasis on “recovery, support, good ideas on books, tools, tips and insights into a healthy strong marriage” seem to me to be much better approaches to helping couples. Period.

      So Trying Hard, thank you very much for your excellent question for me. It is said, that the only bad question one can ask another, is the one that isn’t asked.

      Also, thank you for your input and counsel. I will seriously rethink my “dormancy” decision as to further posting, depending on what direction this site goes.

      To that end, it is my deepest hope that this blog shows signs it will remain a resource for all and if so, I will choose to check in as my personal time permits as explained above, and will likewise encourage others to do so as well. . . .

      . . . . However, if it is decided that this site is to head in a direction toward becoming stereotyped, clichéd, tiring, old gender-war click-bait, I will have no choice but to avoid it like the plague, encourage others who I have directed to it to do likewise, and simply move on.

      Either way, at the proper time, I will make the choice based upon who I am.

      • Sarah P.

        Hi Mike,
        I understand why you might think I was trying to incite a gender war, but I can assure you I am not. I will definitely own up to the idea that this article was gender biased and could certainly be misinterpreted as trying to incite a gender war. That is a mistake on my part. Since the readership is so heavily biased toward female betrayed spouses, I thought I would share an epiphany that I had, but the epiphany may not have been written in the best way.

        Unfortunately, as a human, I often forget that there are some regular male readers out there like you. My wish is never to make you feel attacked and if I have done so I certainly apologize to you and all of the other men here.

        Honestly, I would absolutely love it if some of the betrayed male spouse came forward more often. I have a lot to say to you guys in terms of support and I am pretty sure that all of the women here feel that way. There is nothing women do better than rallying around others in times of crisis. Another stereotype, but I think a lot women thrive on it. 🙂

        I wanted to say something about choices and infidelity. I believe that an unfaithful woman must take as much responsibility for her choice as an unfaithful man. Even if a woman believes a man drove her to cheat because of x, y, and z, I will point out the flawed thinking, which was cheating was a chosen response to what she felt was a bad situation. There are many other responses she could have chosen such as getting a divorce, seeing a therapist, looking inward before doing anything, communicating with her husband, talking to friends, talking to a pastor, prayer, and the like. She can even do nothing in response to what she feels os a bad marriage. Even doing nothing is a choice.

        I realize that there is always a dynamic and that two people can contribute to an unhealthy dynamic and create the perfect storm. But, even in such cases, cheating in response to the perfect storm is still a choice. Personally, if my husband has faults and I have an issue with him or our lives, I communicate. If it does not work and we are stuck on the same problem, I communicate. If I feel lonely because he works long hours, I focus on my kids, friends, family, hobbies, and on my PsyD classes. (By the way, I never plan to pursue being a therapist but rather continue a writer.) If our problems still don’t go away, I stick it out, knowing that marriage is challenging. But, marriage is an opportunity for me to grow as a person too. Granted, we don’t have major problems. No drugs or alcohol addiction, no abuse, etc. If that were the case, I would leave. I realize that even if he were the MOST terrible human being on the planet, I would still leave, but I would not cheat. Plus, it would say a lot about me if I chose to (knowingly) marry the worst human being on the planet. Such a realization would cause me personally to look inward and figure out why I would knowingly do such a thing. And I would go to therapy to figure it out too.

        But, I would never say that he caused me to cheat. If I cheated, I would own up to the idea that I chose the wrong and the most selfish response to a bad situation. But, I was not required to cheat, I chose to. And that is where my philosophy that someone chooses to cheat comes from. I absolutely believe in looking inward and doing it often. But, someone cannot cause me to cheat just like I cannot cause my husband to cheat. It is a choice.

        I will let you and the rest of the guys here in on a little secret as to how I feel about fathers and men who are married to toxic women. In these cases, I believe in father’s rights. I have personally witnessed women who are horrendously emotionally and sometimes physically abusive to their husbands. In these cases, I take the man’s side and believe that not only should he leave, he should get primary custody of the children. Most of my posts are geared towards betrayed women and men who cheat on them. I have strong opinions about men who destroy their families with infidelity. I also have strong opinions about women who are unfaithful, emotionally abusive, or physically abusive to their children or husbands. I do not believe in no fault divorce, in some cases. I have observed scenarios where a woman gets married just because that is a milestone she wants to meet and not because she loves the man. She knows in her heart of hearts that one day she will file for divorce in a no-fault state, get the kids, and she is okay with that. Now, these women are NOT the norm, but I will not ignore the fact that they do exist. There are male scoundrels who are just as harmful and who also live in no fault states. The woman and her children get the short end of the stick in these cases. I hope that I do not alienate anyone for having these opinions.

        Mike, please speak up and share your story with everyone. Everyone here has awesome insight and is always supportive. I bet TFW has some great insight for you too.

        From here on out, I promise that I will not write loaded gender-based articles and I will take a more balanced perspective. I do not wish to offend or alienate anyone here.

        I am also happy that Doug and Linda are taking a larger role in the blog again. As I told them over the email, their personal story provides a beacon of hope for everyone here because they have been there, done that, and they have a stronger marriage for it. They have learned how to thrive in adverse circumstances. Ultimately, they have drawn everyone into the site and most are here to read their story. I love helping when I can add insight. It literally makes my week if someone actually moves forward in their life because of something I have written. I live for those moments! But, I realize the blog is not about me and I am just here to lend a hand. I am grateful that they let me help.

        Mike, feel free to share because I really would like to hear what you have been through.

        Thanks and I wish you the best,
        Sarah

        • Sarah P.

          PS-
          Mike I also agree that we are at a crucial time when families are breaking apart and no one needs to add fuel to the gender fire.

          I think infidelity is the challenge of our time and in my opinion infidelity is more threatening to society than wars or disease.

          I truly believe that strong family is the foundation of a strong society. I left a corporate career after my second child was born because I realized that I needed to raise my sons instead of someone else. My regret is that I did not have this realization when my first son was born. I was fooled into thinking I needed to work and fooled into thinking that work was the most valuable thing I could do for my family. But, I came to the realization that I was most valuable being a mom and being there for my kids. I believe that by staying home I can create one more strong family and raise my kids better than anyone else.

          Do I fault working women? Absolutely not! This is simply what I feel is best for my family and we live on a budget to make it happen. Not everyone has this choice.

          I certainly can come off as having strong opinions and I realize that. I don’t think that I mention my underlying my motive often enough and that is to help people get past infidelity. Infidelity seems to be the #1 factor in divorces. The statistics would indicate that so many divorces are caused by infidelity as the deciding factor that pushed a marriage over the edge. So many children suffer unnecessarily from the infidelity of a parent. Life is stressful enough without infidelity and it is the number one threat to a strong family, at least in my opinion.

          So, Mike, you have been heard and let’s all find common ground. I think all of us can agree on the idea that infidelity is devastating to individuals and families and that no one gets away unscathed.

    • TryingHard

      Mike
      I couldn’t agree with you more with regards to gender bashing and putting “all” of one gender into the same pot.

      I don’t see that the females here put “all men” into the same pot, just men who cheat. And I do believe there is a stark difference between the reasons men cheat and the reasons women cheat. Look, I’ve raised two sons so I am def NOT a male basher. Matter of fact my youngest son’s marriage ended because his wife was having an EO, although I am sure it crossed the line into a PA at least a couple times, so I am intimately aware of a males plight with regards to infidelity. Her cheating has wreaked havoc on our whole family. The repercussions of it are still affecting everyone and mostly my innocent grandson from that marriage. I have not shared any of it here and it is horrifying.

      Doesn’t make any difference who said the quote about men will cheat. I don’t memorize everyone’s comment and I thought you referenced TFW in the quote. My bad. And I’m not picking on TFW.

      FYI, I’ve searched for blogs that include the male’s POV with regards to their cheating wives and have found none. I found one blog written by a man and he was the cheater and an remorseful one at that. I’m sure not every post on this blog appeals to everyone’s taste but they do a great job covering all topics. Men just aren’t as vocal with regards to relationships as women ergo the female bend on the posts. Simple as supply and demand.

      And as a male BS I feel for you. As I said to Untold, I think it’s much worse for the husband of a cheater. One thing that bothers me is when people are simply being themselves and always have been and the cheater makes demands that they change. I call bullshit on that. Look she can’t accept you for who you are then leave, get divorced. Cheating is a chicken shit way for her to deal with what she perceives are your shortcomings–hot or not, which BTW, there’s plenty of “hot” non-cheating women out there Mike 🙂 Hot non-cheating women who have character, integrity, and real sense of commitment. You don’t have a quota on how many “hot” women are out there for you if that’s important to you.

      I get your busy. Glad you answered my question. I hope you know, I’m on your side. Good Luck to you.

    • theresa

      The majority of the stories are from women which greatly limits perspective.One of the things I look for and greatly appreciate on this site is participation from
      “the other side”.
      I need to hear from the men who are the BS.. I need to know the pain from this type of betrayal is not gender specific. For some reason this gave me hope. There are men that could share their story, and understand my pain. The hope being my CH could also understand and want to heal the hurt he caused.
      Mike, the way you described the situation that preceded the affair was perfect. I have heard the same sentiments before but I think the “masculine tone” (forgive me) struck a deep chord in me. Sometimes it’s just the way it’s said.
      I know there were problems that we both were responsible for The marriage was just a shadow. But the betrayal, and continuation of the activities is just indefensible.
      The other “other side” is the cheater. I can not imagine how hard it is to tell the story from this side.(Especially when you are not “anonymous” Doug, thank you).
      Here I learned so much. The why, how, when, who information that helped me to understand, hope, despair. The information I got from both the men and women who told this side was invaluable. Some of you took quite a beating and were gracious, others not so much. Thank you.
      I am anonymous. I have not told my story outside of here. So, Linda thank you too!

    • Shifting Impressions

      This particular post did absolutely nothing for me. But the value of this blog has been….well I have no words. It has been and still is a life line.

      The posts that have spoken to me the most are the ones by Doug and Linda themselves. Hearing about the real life struggles has been invaluable.

      I don’t think the gender thing is all that appropriate either….pain is pain regardless of one’s gender.

      The other thing that keeps coming back are the comments….sometimes they are bitter and over the top…BUT WHO CARES. This should be and is a safe place to pour out all of our pain and bitterness. I don’t want my close friends to say “Here she comes again with her pain” NO I can come here and feel understood and understand.

    • TryingHard

      Exactly SI. At least we are somewhat anonymous here. And NO our friends are no longer interested so I don’t waste my breath. As far as they are concerned every thing is just fine, peach keen evn!

      Not every article speaks to me either. And more so I don’t expect it to. No blog can be everything to everyone.

      What I get from everyone here is I am not alone in my pain and struggles. And that has helped me immensely.

      I don’t see any posts from Linda hardly anymore and haven’t for a while. I know she’s busy with her job as are most people in life. So now we have others like Sarah P whom I find doing her best to keep the site going. I have no idea what Doug and Linda’s plans are for THEIR blog. I see Doug posting in the comments sometimes but mostly it seems they have “guest” posters.

      I also don’t see this blog as singling out all men as cheaters or all women as gold diggers(the typical stereotypes where infidelity is concerned) LOL well maybe OW’s—KIDDING 🙂

      Hey, it is what it is. My motto is if it doesn’t work for you, move on, no one’s obliged to anyone here. Not Doug and Linda, not Sarah P. and certainly not the commenters.

      That is all, #mikedrop, peace out.

      • Doug

        TH, Mike, Untold, SI, Theresa, TFW and any others I’m leaving out,

        Indeed we have stepped back a bit from writing – since 3/22 to be exact (though we are posting tomorrow) – for a variety of reasons: Work, life, taking care of elderly parents… Many people don’t know – or forget – that both Linda and I work other jobs/professions and time can be a huge factor. However, we plan to post again more often and bring back the focused discussions, as well as continue to have Sarah P. as a writer too. And you’re right, we can’t be everything to everyone, nor do we try to be. The fact is that nearly 90% of our readers (based on surveys) are women – and the percentage is even more when it comes to those who comment. That does’t mean we only write/post with women in mind as a general rule of thumb, but certainly that has been the case here the last 4 weeks or so. Our intention is certainly not to start a gender war for the sake of clicks. Additionally, many of the articles that Sarah has written (and will write) are in response to suggestions that were provided through our most recent survey. Some, of course are Sarah’s own ideas – which BTW she is very passionate about – an she’s very passionate about helping people as well. Anyways, there will be some changes coming soon (as outlined in tomorrow’s post) and we are always up for any suggestions you have to offer. Thanks again for all your loyal readership and support!

        • Mike

          Doug,

          And my thanks to Linda, Sarah, you and any other contributors as well. . . .

    • Strengthrequired

      Doug, so many of us here have found your and Linda’s site during times in our life that is full of sadness, despair, confusion, even anger, with a feeling of where to go, who to turn to for help. My only wish for me, was that I found your site on dday or as close to dday, instead of finding you a year after dday.
      Better late than never though, as the saying goes. It has been a wild ride, one hope never to be stuck on again, yet if it does at least I know where to go, for support, here.
      As we know here, infidelity is not gender specific. Being a cheater, a betrayed spouse, or even an affair partner if not gender specific, the damage caused hurts all of us. It is a pain, that we wish time could be turned back and made never to happen. Unfortunately, time keeps moving forward until time makes it hurt less.
      We come here, because we find others that have been through it, are going through it, or at just finding out about cheating. You and Linda have started a community here, that has helped many, especially when it is not so easy to get the help in the real world.
      So from the bottom of my heart, a heart felt Thankyou to you and everyone here, because if I hadn’t found you, I would still be thinking my ch affair was my fault. I needed to hear from cheaters perspective, I needed to hear about the betrayed perspective, I needed to find hope when there was none, I needed to find understanding, as well as most of all the need to know I was not alone. Especially when you feel the most alone than you have ever felt. I needed to also hear from the affair partners, how they felt etc, and honestly it is what’s needed.
      We all suffer, no one is left unscathed. So again, Thank you,

    • TryingHard

      SR–ditto. I guess I’m a little defensive I’d Doug and Linda’s blog because I too have found a kinship here as in no place else. They don’t censor us and comments flow rather freely. I will be forever grateful to them and the posts and the commenters here. I feel bad there are some that feel excluded. They don’t have to be but the blog and the help we all receive here is what WE make of it. Everyone’s busy. We all have jobs and responsibilities and some of us have a true passion with regards to this topic of infidelity. That’s why I take the time to post. I’m quite certain all of us have lots of more productive things we can and should be doing. While I am way into recovery I still feel like I need all of your support from time to time and that’s why I stick around.

      Hugs to ALL of you

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, I think that is why, I still find myself here. At times I still struggle, and even if I don’t post, I read, and at times it helps me carry on another day, until another day, another week, another month, to another year has past.
        Thanks th, for all you have helped me with over the years. I have to say it’s nice to still see some of us older posters still posting on Occassion. Like gizield, and Rachel. Even untold, and many others.

    • TryingHard

      My dear SR–you hold a special place in my little cyber heart. I hope I can always be here for you. Please know if not in the human form or cyber form , but truly in Spirit. You and your family are always in my daily prayers. Others as well, too numerous to mention.

      • Strengthrequired

        Th, as you and your family are in mine.

    • Antiskank

      For what it’s worth. I too wish to express my appreciation for this site and it’s many contributors. After D-Day 1, I spent all my spare time searching for answers to my many questions – anywhere and everywhere I could. What happened, why, what did I do wrong, was I going crazy, was I unlovable, among others. I found this site and still check it daily when I can. It is a source of comfort to me in an unsettling situation.

      I would agree that I liked it better when we heard more from Doug and Linda but it is good to get other perspectives too, even if I don’t agree with the sentiment of the article. At times I may even find them offensive. What I do look forward to in those cases are the comments from our very supportive group of betrayed spouses. I look forward to hearing the various ideas and suggestions, sometimes quite colourful!! As much as I hate the idea that new people have to join us and deal with being betrayed, I do get a lot from their stories and questions. I do like to hear from the betrayed men to get a different point of view. Hearing from the cheaters is also helpful to me in understanding how they see things. I would really hate to see any of these people driven away. The more ideas we get, the more insight we have.

      It has been both an inspiration to me and a source of anxiety to observe the progress of our long term contributors. Some people have made amazing progress in getting their lives back together and I see them move from questioning to offering advice. That is amazing to me! On the other hand, it disturbs me that I haven’t progressed as far as I should. That’s one of the reasons I’m still here!

      Thank you to all for your willingness to share and care! Some names come to mind – TFW, Scott, SR, TH, Rachel, SI, Broken 2, Giz. I know this was Doug and Linda’s blog and I am so thankful to them but it also would not be the same without all of you!!!

    • Shifting Impressions

      Anti
      You just brought tears to my eyes.

      So there you have it Doug and Linda this site has been a life line for so many of us. It’s a place that many of us come to daily…perhaps so we just don’t feel quite as alone in this journey. Infidelity is often shrouded in secrecy and to others it might even appear that we have the “perfect marriage” as if there is such a thing. But here we can shed the mask and take comfort and give comfort.

      I have gone and will continue to get some personal counseling but nothing has helped me as much as this community.

      And Sarah P just because I don’t happen to agree with every post….I love you the majority of them and love your input. Thanks so much.

      Also thanks to everyone that take the time to comment……….I can’t say it enough.

    • Doug

      Thanks for all the kind words guys, and we do appreciate each and every one of you. What makes this site different from many others I’ve seen that deal with this topic is the level of community that exists. Most blogs that deal with this go dormant or die after a really brief time, and if not for the community that has been built here – though it constantly changes – I’m sure that would have happened to us as well. And over the years you all have been instrumental in our own recovery and my personal growth through the comments that you make. I think every ex-cheater or cheater-to-be should sit down for a day and read the stories of betrayed spouses that exist on this site. It can literally be life-changing.

      As of today, there will be 1000 articles posted to the blog and about 700 audios, videos and written content in the Higher Healing area. That’s all well and good, but in the end it’s the community and the support and the sharing of experiences that is most important.

    • TryingHard

      Untold–I am so sorry. I know it is a monumental task even trying to conceive of breaking a relationship with someone of so many years. Yikes, my new DIL is a Borderline and honestly I do not know why or how my son stays with her. She got pregnant, presumably by him, less than a month after his divorce was final. So now they have a 2 year old. I’m hoping he’s biding his time till his child gets a little older and he can bolt! I feel for you.

      So so smart to get a different therapist. Look you don’t have to make the decision to leave right away. You’ve held out this long. Take your time, talk to your therapist weekly for a while, things will start to become very clear to you before you know it. Don’t let anyone talk you into leaving or staying and for pete’s sake don’t let anyone ever ever even try to sniff at the suggestion that you caused her cheating. Borderlines NEVER do anything they don’t want to do. She was in full control. LOL pretty sure if the therapist asked what she thought you did to “make” her cheat and what you thought you did to “make” her cheat, I better your answers would be totally different. So don’t accept any of it. Therapy is to figure out what you need for yourself and in YOUR life–with or without her.

      Hang in there Bud. Having sons this just makes me want to cry 🙁 or kick someone’s ass!!!

      • TheFirstWife

        I hear you. My teenage son dated a total narcissistic BPD nasty partying “girl” for years. He finally escaped her by going away to college.

        His friends despised her and would tell him all the time how bad she was. Cheated on him, humiliated him, trash talked him, used & abused him. So hard to watch.

        I hope he learned something from this. she was ever so sweet when she wanted to be and needed something. So for her she was not beset with mental issues or problems, she was creating them. She abused so many people in school it was ridiculous. They could do very little to stop it.

        Hard to watch. I pray for our chikdren who get sucked into this black hole.

    • TryingHard

      This borderline is NEVER sweet. She’ s awful. My sister just told me a story today about her. We were at my grandson’s birthday party (BPD is not his mother, thank God) and my sister hadn’t seen her for a long time. She walked up and said Hello (insert name), it’s good to see you again. Her reply was Yeah right, ok. And walked away!!! Seriously who does that????

      I have read so much about Borderlines, which BTW I can’t wait to quit reading books about infidelity, Narcissism, Sociopaths, Liars, I can’t wait to buy some juicey smutty book!!!!. Anyway these people literally are CRAZY. I just hope she’s crazy enough to drive into the river someday!

    • Patsy50

      My appreciation also for this site. When my husband told me about his EA five years ago, and my head was spinning and I didn’t know what the hell hit me, I found this site. It gave me some understanding and direction. We are in a much better place today. I still come to this site, not so much for me anymore but for my daughter, who’s husband had an EA,PA and she was told he didn’t love her after 7 years of marriage and three sons under the age of 7. They went to counseling but after only a few sessions, he would not do the homework and stopped going He was not interested in working on the marriage. The way I handle my situation is different then the way she handles hers so I learn from many on this site and give guidance to her when needed. My husband and I support her in anyway we can. She has always been there for me now it’s my turn to be there for her. She will never walk alone, I will walk with her every step of the way. So thank you Linda, Doug and the many people who post on this blog.

    • theresa

      Projection.
      This word comes up a lot for me. Mostly during a less than harmonious exchange with my husband. One of us assumes a thought or action by the adversary based on our own expected response For example, “so you did this to get back at me!” The last time I heard that my response was, “no, that’s what you would do”.
      I must also confess it gives me a feeling of superiority to be ab;e to say this. But in the aftermath I try to remind myself that I’m guilty of this myself. The gender specific bias jumps out here. Some of it is factual. Some not. Emotion blurs the lines. Self defense becomes an attack. Time passes and you ask yourself “who the hell was that?”
      The tangle of infidelity strips us bare. Some are able to rise above the lowest elements and remain true to ourselves. Some are buried by it.

    • Shaun

      I don’t understand this article. It implies it’s about female infidelity, but all it does is mostly talk about all the ways men were terrible to women cheat.

      You know some of us are very sympathetic and try to uplift our wives and make sacrifices for them and their goals. And yet as soon as they get that big promotion we’re discarded for someone else without even a care in their mind. This has happened to me and it has happened to many men I know. Men of the 1950’s were truly horrible and the last think I ever wanted was to stifle and control my wife. But where did it get me? Fucked over.

      I’ll never truly fully commit and give myself to a woman ever again, because they just aren’t capable of handling it in a reasonable and caring way.

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