The other day when I recapped our most recent survey, one of the takeaways that I mentioned was that most couples decide rather quickly to remain married after an affair. This was derived from the questions below where it shows that 80.3% of the respondents decided within one year on whether or not to get a divorce, with 74.4% deciding to stay married. All told, 86.3% responded that they are in fact still married. There is still some uncertainty (21.5%), but the overwhelming choice was/is to stay married.
Here are those questions again:
How long after discovery was there a decision as to whether to stay married or get a divorce?
Less than 3 months – 42.7%
Three months to a year – 37.6%
More than a year – 19.7%
What was the decision?
To stay married – 74.4%
To get a divorce – 4.1%
Still undecided – 21.5%
One of the readers made the following statement that was interesting:
“I suspect that if the majority of respondents had been male rather than female, the number of couples remaining married would have been far less. In my experience, women who have been betrayed are far more likely to ‘forgive’ and put the needs of their families/children above their own….and far more able to be the ones who re-build the relationship.”
I thought perhaps this would make for a good topic for discussion. So…
With so many of you deciding rather quickly to remain married after an affair, what were the driving forces for that decision? Any particular reason for making the decision rather quickly?
For instance, was it due to forgiveness, fear, love, financial concerns, or desire to keep the family together?
Conversely, for any of you who decided to divorce, what were the driving forces behind that decision – and why was it made rather soon after discovery of the affair?
Please reply in the comment section below with as much detail as necessary, and feel free to respond to one another.
Thanks!
Linda & Doug
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LINESPACE
143 replies to "Discussion – Why Did You Decide to Remain Married After an Affair?"
Why have I remained married after I found out? (For me, I still have not decided if I’m ready to recommit 100%. There are some changes that are underway in my H, but he still has a long way to go before I feel comfortable recommitting.) The answer is simple: my kids. Had it been up to me, I would have insisted on a separation as soon as I found out and, frankly, probably would have divorced him as there wouldn’t have been much reason to stick it out. I was so angry about what he did, on top of years and years of neglect and selfishness and, apparently, lies on his part, that I’d just had it. But when I demanded he leave, my children overheard, and I saw my children’s faces fall, and when they dissolved into tears, I relented and just could not do it. My own parents divorced when I was about my daughter’s age, and I swear I had a flashback. I decided to try to deal with this while still living under the same roof (though he did move into the basement for two months). I am trying to live up to what I always thought I believed: that once you have kids, you really have to ‘earn’ your way out of a marriage, by trying everything possible to save it before divorcing, and that divorce is really the last and not the first choice. I would have no hesitation whatsoever in divorcing my H should I ever discover that he’s lied to me again, however. I feel that I am now giving him a second chance, but he does not get a third.
Carol- you got this right on the head!
“I am trying to live up to what I always thought I believed: that once you have kids, you really have to ‘earn’ your way out of a marriage, by trying everything possible to save it before divorcing, and that divorce is really the last and not the first choice. I would have no hesitation whatsoever in divorcing my H should I ever discover that he’s lied to me again, however. I feel that I am now giving him a second chance, but he does not get a third.”
My D-Day One Year Anniversary is a few days away (H of 30 years had 1 1/2 yr EA with old GF). From the beginning we said we weren’t sure where we would end up, but we wanted to work on our marriage and try to stay together.
I wish I could say here I was one year later and all is well, and I’ve made the decision to stay, but I can’t. I still haven’t forgiven him, I am still in pain, I don’t trust him, and I hate these feelings. I envy those who post here and say their marriage is “better than it was before”. That is still my wish for my marriage, so for the time being, I’m holding on to the hope we will stay married.
csb: I think you’ve done A LOT by wanting to stay together but now the burden is on him. Did he think he was going to have his cake and eat it too? His responsibility is to take that pain away. He needs to man up and give you the security you need to move on to a better place. He needs to gain your trust by doing the right things. Tell him to read books on how to fix the mess he’s created in your life. No marriage can last if the CS doesn’t get his act together and makes a better life for the BS. I sincerely hope your marriage takes a turn for the best. 30 years is a long time, I know… I’ve been married 29 (this year). Best of luck to you.
Before I even confronted my H or made the decision to stay married I asked myseIf if I really loved him enough to fight for our marriage. The answer was yes. But things were going to have to change. After some soul searching I decided to stay married. I though about my children and how detrimental it would be for them to see the stupid choices their father had made. Even though they are all in college now I felt they did not deserve this. Another reason I decided to fight for my marriage was my H’s reaction when I confronted him with my suspicions. His response to my question “What were you thinking?” was an immediate apology and acknowledgment that he should have never contacted an old flame and at that moment all contact with her stopped immediately. A few days after confronting him I realized that he had been having EAs for years with his so called co-workers. I demanded to know everything about these bitches and he did not hesitate to tell me. All contact with them as changed dramatically. Unfortunately he cannot change his job at this time but is working on it. We read the book “Not just friends” by Dr. Shirley Glass and many other books by M. Gary Neuman and he has followed their advice. After years of treating me like a narcissistic bastard, gaslighting, stonewalling (you name it) he has returned to be the man I married. As to my children, I have always preferred to take my H’s crap in order to protect them from their father’s behavior. I don’t regret the sacrifice, my kids are wonderful and well adjusted individuals. As to my H, I did give him a second chance and told him to fix his mess or else it was over and no, there won’t be a third chance should he fall off the wagon again. He knows this and he is working very hard to make our marriage a better one. As much as I appreciate his change, he still has a long way to go before I can forgive and trust him completely again. It’s been a long and bumpy road but there is still hope and love between us.
Natalia, You sound like me. I love the book “Not Just Friends”. Out of all the things we tried, I think that was the most successful, because it not only gives something research-based, so he HAS to consider it (not just my own “opinion”–though I’m also a counselor), but it also gives very specific and meaningful language. The whole concept of “windows” and “walls” has saved a discussion from becoming an argument many times, because we can both relate to the meaning of that and how it impacts the relationship. Without that language, we got into endless enmeshed discussions of “I didn’t do anything wrong” vs “You are acting with this person in an inappropriate way”. But otherwise, all the things people are saying here apply to me as well.
Fiorastar, this book helped me discover that my H’s behavior had a name: Emotional Affair. Up until the moment I read it I had no idea that the emotional connections he had with his co-workers, old GFs and girl-friends were emotional affairs! Boy was I blind and naive! Not anymore. It all has a name and I call it as it is even though he cringes everytime a mention the words EA. Too bad for him. I’m just glad I’m not crazy for thinking that his behavior with all his female friends was WRONG. I didn’t like it, don’t like it now and will not tolerate it ever. He knows this and is working hard and has stopped this behavior cold turkey!
I stayed for our four children. In the end, their happiness and well-being is more important to me than mine. My wife had an EA/PA, and it is D-Day plus a few months. I don’t dwell on the affair daily, choosing rather not to. However I am reminded nearly day and must make a conscious effort and choice to dwell on other things. Most days I am successful, but not always.
I forgave my wife very quickly (again for the sake of the children), and chose to trust her again fairly quickly. Through Providence the anger and resentment are gone, and I even forgave the OM.
The pain. The pain becomes muted for the most part, especially as we work to build new memories and look forward rather than back. But not always.
My driving force was — love and forgiveness, bottom line. I was not afraid to be on my own after 38 yrs. of marriage nor a need financially.
My girls were married and in their 30’s, same age as husbands coworker whom he had a 1 yr. EA with. Although he knew her 10 yrs. and still works in the same office. My girls were my support system. Said what they had to him but they supported me in whatever decision I made. They also loved their father and forgave him as I did.
I must say, all through our marriage, he was always a kind, caring, loving and trust worthy man. We had to take a good look at what was breaking down in our marriage. I can honestly say, it was a wake up call for me, although I would have preferred communicating the problems instead of an EA.
And so he asked to give him a second chance to make things right and he has done everything to show me he can and has.
We will be married 41 yrs. this Oct. don’t know how many more years we have left together. We are not spring chickens! But our hearts are young again!
I decided to remain married after my husbands affair because I truly was in love with my husband and loved him. I didn’t want to break up the family unit and I was willing to go to therapy with him to start fresh. Well, as some of you know that didn’t happen. My H didn’t want to start fresh. He wanted his freedom. He felt that he wanted to “date” other women , new women as well as ex girlfriends and his decision was to end our 25 year marriage, he didn’t want me.
Our marriage meant nothing to him. He said it was a mistake, he should never have married me, he was never happy and he just married me out of pity. This of which is all a lie. He was happy he is just trying to justify what he is doing. That is fine. I feel less stress in my life now. I knew that I could never trust him again. He lied to me about his affair, I knew he had someone else in his life.
Well, he has someone else now. Someone he works with, she at least is divorced.
I’m anxious for my divorce to be over so I can start my new life. I know he doesn’t respect me and is seeing someone even though we are still legally married but I’m not like him in the least. Respect is something that he never had for me.
My only problem of moving on is the jealousy that I feel for the other women that he is with. Perhaps it’s a feeling of being with someone for 30 years. Hopefully it will end when I start my new and happy life.
Rachel,
I’m sorry you are going through all this mess. To hear that you never meant anything to a man you were married to for 30 yrs, excuse or not had to hurt. I’m glad that you are getting along better though, sometimes I think I would be better off along also.
After 30 or in my case, 50 yrs. with someone, even after the divorce it would bother me that my H had another woman in his life. I’ve thought of that often, I put in all the hard work with this man and someone else comes along and reaps all the benefits of my hard work. I totally understand, but I think pretty soon the happiness of not having to be with a cheating husband that you can’t trust will take over and you will be totally happy. I wish that for you, along with a happy life in peace.
Linda
I forgot to mention a book that I am reading called Runaway Husbands, The abandoned Wife’s guide to Recovery and Renewal. By Vikki Stark.
I swear that this author has met me. She is writing about me! And why are all these men so similar??? It’s almost like they read a manual on how to blame your wife for everything, I want a divorce.
The cover alone is priceless. It’s of two goldfish in a bowl and one is jumping out, yup that my husband!
Amazing that, so far, the majority of those commenting who stayed, did so because of the children. I did the same. Since i became a mother 22 years ago, i did and continue to do things, because of the children. So what is the excuse of the CS and his/her actions that proved irresponsible to their commitment? How did he or she NOT think of the children if children were present in the marriage. How do you bypass that commitment and put yourself (or your AP) 1st? This is where i am stuck…this is unfortunately where ‘acceptance,’ just “ain’t” happening.
I am in the ‘undecided’ percentage because i will NEVER be sure of my future with my H after all the damage done…but i’m still married. After all, were were married 25 years while he was cheating, had SO much on our plates back then (23 months ago,) yet he had time for another life?
After what i personally have been thru during all the discoveries this past almost 2 years, looks like i may forever be ‘undecided,’….as, there will be no 3rd chance (DDay#3.)…same as you, Carol & Blue…
I think I am younger than most posting on this thread and, while my H and I have been together for quite some time, our marriage is 3 years in. I don’t yet have children but will have soon.
I stayed because 1) the offense was not a PA, which I am not sure I could forgive 2) he did a 180 and is committed in every way to a better relationship 3) we’re in counseling 4) we have built/are building a strong foundation and are happier than ever. 5) we never fell out of love or into a rut or physically/emotionally distant (until , that is I suspected the EA and called it out at which point he turned it back on me)…the EA happened for other reasons having to do with his ego issues, and so on.
In my heart I know that our love is profound and that he regrets his actions so very much. He understands what happened and why and is doing seriously hard personal work in the everyday to change himself, his behavior, and his overall relationship to his negative tendencies. I am changing, too. Our whole ecosystem is changing.
Hopeful….I’m curious: Why do you think he had an affair? I have been reading these forums for over a year and am always struck by the fact that most posters cite a breakdown in communication, or poor relationship, drifting apart, etc. It sounds to me like you didn’t have that. My husband told me he loved me every day, kissed me goodbye every morning as we left for work, called me throughout the day, etc. We were (and are) completely in love, excellent communicators, best friends etc. He even said nice things about me to the OW: I’ve seen their correspondence.
I have never seen anyone more remorseful in my life than my husband was when his EA was revealed. He has appologized over and over, gone to counseling, endured my emotional meltdowns, etc. And even though I know with certainty that he loves me, and never intended to hurt me, a year and a half after D-day I still don’t feel that I will ever fully trust him again. If everything is good, and you love your spouse (and in our case, our children) what could possibly possess one to risk it all? And the fact that I noticed nothing while it was going on, that we still talked and emailed throughout our days, made each other laugh, just makes it even harder for me to trust him. Surely he must be a spectacular liar.
Hello darlin, That’s right. Well, I did suspect something was weird and there was tension and distance that occurred (but this happened only for a few months and in the middle of the EA not before it). In fact, the EA followed one of the best years of our ten year relationship. And, there was no slow growing apart. We are both young and have no children yet. WE were not in a rut.
However, this was not the first time we had battled about his weird relationships to a woman. He had had a PA with his first wife and they divorced. Married young and that is why he thought it happened and was generally unreflective. I was young when I met my H and never felt settled with that response and I always felt uneasy with the prospect of something happening in the future as a result. The one thing we fought about a lot in the first five years of our relationship was this one lady friend of his (and they really were just friends). She was weird and clingy and had no boundaries. Was it rooted it sexual attraction? No, at least not for him, but she was weird and I didn’t trust him and my feelings were a burden to him on this. He refused, and I mean REFUSED to listen to my very legit concerns about her. That drifted off for a bunch of reasons that don’t matter for you, and after time passed, I thought we had gotten past all of this stuff and I felt safe and we had no major issues and life was good.
As for his EA, I wasn’t suspicious until I met her and she was a total bitch to me but in a subtle way. She wouldn’t look me in the eye and seemed shifty and uncomfortable around me. When I brought it up he defended her. And on and on. His behavior started getting distant and strange. Less touching and eye contact. Etc. But he loved me and there were many normal days.
Why did he do it? Ultimately, I think he had ego issues. He didn’t love himself and maybe even hated himself, due to many factors but were connected to bad parenting and abandonment by the father and hot/cold love by mother. His ego formed strangely you might say. He had a personality that needed constant confirmation of accomplishment, attention, and unique cherishment to feel ok and women (especially in the arts which he values) played a bad role throughout his adulthood. Broken, needy (but smart and soulful) women were bad news, as they would pump his ego at “no cost,” tell him he was an accomplished artist, present a gaping emotional need that only he could support (making him feel needed, special, and powerful), and would promise entry into a fantasy art world that didn’t exist for them to begin with. Anyway, the details beyond this don’t matter. The bottom line is that he had unmet emotional and ego needs that he didn’t realize he even had and was blind to how these women and needs led to self-destructive tendencies, latched to depression, and so on. He needed to see how this all operated and heal his wounds and supply the thins he needed for himself and in healthy ways. Honestly, there were things he couldn’t see.
Also, though, as he admits, he didn’t really understand what it meant to commit to someone longterm. By this I mean the need to see the needs of your partner as always legit and something to negotiate. IT is not ok to stonewall or lead a secret life. While that sounds obvious, maybe, it wasn’t clear that he was being cruel to me. Not entirely to me either. In the day to day things get fuzzy.
Also, as he said, as the EA played out, he lied even to himself. That it wasn’t a big deal, that he was in control, that he loved me and this was just a little bobble,that they were just friends, that there’s no harm, that it’d phase out, that I wasn’t being hurt, etc. It honestly didn’t occur to him that our relationship was at stake or that I was being mortally harmed or that it would take us years to heal. He didn’t connect the dots that would let him see what he was doing as betrayal and disrepect to someone he loved and valued.
It is a dissociative disorder.
So, I think these things can happen for you and I when we are with a partner that has unreflective childhood wounds and needs that they literally cannot see. Circumstance also played a role.
Hoep that helps.
Hopeful, that was a fabulous answer! I am also of the camp that had very few “warning signs” – my friends and my boss all were quite touched by how close we were, even after a couple of decades, and then some together, lots of light, and sweet texts during every work day, secret smiles, kisses, loving touches, hugs when we saw each other after a day’s work, that kind of thing. When I look back, there were a couple of signs, but nothing at all, I would have needed to be an expert to have picked them up (and of course, have beaten myself to a mental pulp because I did miss them, lol!) He still does, and even then, did, love me, but once again, it was about HIS issues, HIS coping mechanisms, HIS insecurities, HIS inability to communicate any of those to me effectively. The scope of the lying boggles the mind, he was also lying to himself, BIG TIME, even to the point of telling himself they were just friends, which is a real stretch, as this was a sexual affair, of 15 months duration! Every time they had sex (and there weren’t that many times, it actually was mostly an emotional connection they had) he would feel the intense remorse and think to himself “I really am the scum of the earth,” but somehow, not enough to NOT go back for the next time? She was a childhood friend of mine, and she always met my eye, and never made me suspicious, not his “type” – or so I thought! She was also a world class liar, coming on holkiday to our holiday home one multiple occasions, often at MY invitation, just our family, her and her little boy, lovely. Even on two occasions when he wasn’t there. Dissociative, indeed! So, I understand your question JLH19. I really do.
Paula, our stories are so similar. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage of love for each other. Comments were made all the time and I was so proud of what we had together and only ever being with each other. We started seeing each other at 16, went steady, boy am I dating myself for 2 yrs. He joined the Military for a 3 yr. stint and we got married when we were both 18. So much in love and I thought it would be that way forever. Right before our 25th. Anniversary, which he didn’t seem to pay attention to I noticed at he was drinking more, coming home a little later (thought he was working late in his high profile job) which required that sometimes, so didn’t think anything of it. But then he would be distant sometimes when he did get home, but he would just say that he had a hard day. He took me to her home for a Christmas party, him being an executive and her a lower lever secretary (not saying to knock anyone down, just making a point as to what she was after) and I told him, we are not suppose to be associating with these people at work, unless it’s your boss or business associates. He said, it wouldn’t look good and we wouldn’t stay long, but he did know a lot of the people at this branch, as they had several at his company. We went, met her husband and 2 little girls, talk about nerve. He drank to much, said he needed to dance with the hostess, which he did several times, with her Husband and I right there. I was livid as he sure wasn’t dancing with me, even though I didn’t want to anyway as I didn’t feel right being there. I’m not a snob either, I grew up in a poor family, but it just wasn’t the thing we should have been doing. When I saw how much he was drinking and acting, I told him we needed to go, he was so mad and drove home like a maniac, fussing all the way. I also remember seeing her flirting with him, when I walked into surprise him at the company bowling league and I warned him to watch out for her, that’s what he was doing anyway as they had already slept together. Supposedly no sex, according to the lie detector test, but their was some questions that he didn’t pass, so I still don’t know wether to believe him or her or not? They had a 3 yr. A and went off together for 2 weekends and then one Friday night, where they supposedly broke it off. He told me that he went off on the weekend’s so they could go to the attractions that she didn’t get to go to as her H couldn’t afford it. She also had 2 little girls and led my H to believe that their marriage wasn’t doing well, so she cried on his shoulder about it. This made him feel that he was helping her out by listening and that those weekends were not so bad, since her marriage wasn’t doing that well. I told him, that’s what a cheater will do, she will lie, did you expect her to say that her marriage was great? She started the A by flirting with him at a conference in the lounge, he had never had a woman come on to him since we had been going together for since the age of 16 and he was now 40. He enjoyed her flirting, she was 6 yrs. younger than me, but I also looked younger for my age and had kept myself up also. But I wasn’t a flirt, my love that I showed him was sincere. He called her for lunch and he thought that wasn’t so bad as he wasn’t really doing anything to wrong. They rationalize everything they do in an A, even the weekend where they slept in the same bed. He thought that if he didn’t have sex with her, that made it not as bad, then if he did have sex with her. He told me, like your H did, that he felt guilty and she did also when they went off together. My comment is like yours, then if that was the case and you felt guilty, you could have slept on the couch, came back home and surely not go off on another one a year later. He said that he thought it wouldn’t be as hard the next time. I don’t buy any of this, he enjoyed being with her, loved the added attention from someone new and didn’t want to give her up. He could have made many different choices just like your H, but chose not to. Our therapist, which he didn’t like going to for 5 yrs, as he was their in body only. Told me, that she felt the reason he had the A was inside he was really an insecure person, needed the “extra” attention to affirm himself and had a narcisstic personality. If he wanted something, he felt entitled to it and he had always been given everything he wanted, even by me. I put him on a pedestal so high that he would have had a nose bleed him if he fell off. He got so much attention and love at home, he sure didn’t need it elsewhere, but his personality was such that he couldn’t get enough attention and if he liked something, like his drinking, he didn’t turn it down. All I know is that he had some of the same needs and issues that Hopeful’s H had and didn’t know how to come to me and discuss it. All I know is that an A can tear down something that you thought you had and that special feeling that occurred between the two of you is not to be anymore. I get so tired of hearing that an A is a sign that something is wrong in your marriage, that is so untrue. The fault lies within the inside of the person who has the A and has nothing to do with the spouse that was cheated on. Even if a marriage does have issues, you either go to your spouse or get out of the marriage before you act on it. You have choices and if you truly love your spouse more than you care about your selfish needs, that’s what you will do.
Thanks for letting me vent,
Linda
Linda,
Your husband sounds likenmy soon to be ex. Narsasisstic personality. It’s all about them!!!
Sorry didn’t catch if you are still married?
Best of luck!
Hi Rachel,
Yes, the D-day was 11/6/87, you never forget those dates do you. Five years of counseling, pretty much me, he only showed up. Then I decided after a Retro weekend to love and forgive and move on. For 20 yrs. it wasn’t so bad, then stock market, other things etc., caused him to change. Past year has been really bad as I’ve asked him the questions that he wouldn’t answer 25 yrs. ago and it doesn’t sit well with him. Doesn’t remember, been to long, our grown children think I’m being obsessive and are on their Dad’s side, so I pretty much get a H who gives short answers, doesn’t want to and just would like us to go on with our life at 68 and enjoy what time we have left. I wish I had divorced him, when I was 40 as I look back on my life with him the past 25 yrs. He didn’t learn from what he did, not that their has been another A. If that happened you might be reading about me in the paper, even though I don’t own a gun. After what I’ve been through, never again. I should have left, thought I could get through it, decided to love him again, but he never became a better person after what he did. Nothing changed, drinking, selfishness, etc. Now, it’s going to be a big decision if I do at our age, but I’m very un-happy and not sure if their is any love left. You were smart, you got out, wish I had done the same.
Linda
Hi Linda,
For myself I can not say that I regret divorcing, when I read your posts it only confirms it even more.
You asked the question how do you get your feelings back
again, that is a very good question that I do not have the answer to that question. I broken off relationships due to the lack of feelings, and I do not know how to get those feelings again once they are gone.
Maybe someone else here has been throught that and could answer that question better then me.
JLH19 – My story is the same….best friends (married 30 years), constant contact throughout the day, date nights, etc. Then I found out about his 1 1/2 year EA with an old GF.
I know many people say they actually have a better relationship after the discovery because it forced them to analyze what was wrong with the relationship and work harder. Obviously, something was wrong in our relationship or he wouldn’t have had the EA to begin with, but because it seemed like we had so much, I can’t see how we can be “better” now.
I think it would have been easier to handle the EA if I had an obvious problem in our marriage to blame it on. Also, for recovery, it would be easier if I could say “okay, we improved on that problem that made the marriage break down in the first place, so it may not happen again”.
Csb. At a minimum, your relationship with your H was without a doubt missing one thing that all EA relationships have. Novelty.
TO JLH19, Im right there with you! Our stories match. I had NO CLUE! We even made comments during movies with infidelity in them. No clue it was happening in our own lives…. My husband had low self esteem and selfishness. I didnt know that! How could I not know that?? After being together for 27 years (since we were 14 yrs old). He wasnt looking for an affair. SHE just mistook his niceness for flirting~and she ran with it and their fun began! REMEMBER: MOST MENs MINDS ARE LIKE FILING CABINETS, OUR MINDS ARE LIKE THE WHOLE CLOSET! Some men can close their family life (like closing a filing cabinet drawer) and open their new, exciting drawer of fun… and close that drawer when they come home and work too. MOST women think of home life and fun and work and kids and…..its all there at the same time! So our husbands compartmentalize like a BOSS!!
I am a little different to many of the mothers posting here, in that I originally stayed because he told me he was ashamed, and loved me very deeply, and I knew I did him – which surprised me, as I thought an affair would be the end for us. He offered to leave the night I found out, and I surprised myself at the time as the words, “no, I think I need you here, to help me heal from this.” I did NOT stay for the children, not at all. I believe children will be happy if their parents (and especially their mother, if she is the primary caregiver) are happy, and that means in, or out, of a marriage. I would not stay in a bad or unhappy relationship. That said, of course there has been MUCH unhappiness. We have separated several times, with me finally coming to the conclusion that I am less unhappy with him than without him, and he has definitely made the changes, and done/is doing the work required. His EA/SA was over before I ever knew, and he ended it, so that kind of helps, too, as it was his decision, he made by himself under no pressure to do “the right thing,” just a decision that she was not a better option, and he had been a fool, he realised he’d made a GIGANTIC error. With the passing of time, I did start to realise that my life would be less financially comfortable if I left, and the children would miss out on some of the creature comforts they currently enjoy, but that was not a driving factor in me staying. Legal changes were made (in an outstanding show of faith on his behalf) to ensure I came out of this with a properly reflective share of what we had worked for together, previously there were some serious anomalies that would have seen me walk away with next to nothing, struggling to pay rent, let alone buy, when he would have owned millions of dollars worth of property, which we both realised was stupid of us, and naive. That also helped, as I could have walked as soon as the ink was dry, out of the lawyers’ offices, but he did it anyway, partly to even things up to be fairer, but partly to show me that he did value me, and as a show of faith.
My parents separated and subsequently divorced just as I was leaving for university. It was amicable, but painful, mostly for my mother, but also for my father,and we were all okay, I have two younger brothers. I have never felt distressed by it, or negatively affected by it, probably because they were open with us about the reasons, and there was no animosity, with my father “at fault” as such, and giving my mother more than half of the assets, kind of as a type of apology, and acknowledgement that he had the greater earning power at the time. My mother went onto a lovely life, eventually meeting and marrying a lovely man, who she saw her days out with, in true wedded bliss.
I am also of the camp that isn’t able to be in this 100%. I mostly am, but things are irrecoverably changed, I will never be able to let myself be that vulnerable again, trust like that again, or feel safe again. It is not because I want to be this way, or because I haven’t had good guidance, or counselling. This is mostly not good, of course, but it is a reality of what he did to us. He accepts that, and continues to work towards a way whereby we can stay together, as happily as we can manage. I have asked him many times, in the aftermath, if he thinks he could be happier without me in the picture, as I believe my pain is permanent, and I don’t want him to be punished for the rest of his life. At the end of the day, it is about BOTH of us, not just me, and I love him too much to see him unhappy, if that is what he is. He says he is happier staying with me, and he understands the damage done. I know it sounds awful, it’s not as bad as all that, but my life is still nowhere near as fulfilling as it once was, and I believe that this is kind of it, as good as it gets. That’s okay, but I just wish I never knew the bliss I had before all of this, and then I wouldn’t feel quite so much like I am living a 2nd class life now, instead of the purity of the love and life we had before his stupidity. Maybe this is how all of the “normal” people always were – before this I had this silly notion that we had something rare, something few people are lucky enough to experience. Maybe that is why I had to have this awful lesson applied???
I’m not sure why I decided to remain married in the initial months after. I think I was in shock and hoping it would all just go away and the nightmare would stop. There was no actual discussion about leaving or staying but my H agreed immediately to NC (even though he was lying or technically telling the truth at that time).
I’m glad now that we did stay married even though things will never be like they were and implicit trust has gone forever.
I stayed because once upon a time we loved each other so much and I hoped there might be some way to rebuild that. I stayed because not staying would have been a financial disaster. I stayed because I had invested half my life in this marriage and I didn’t want that time to have been wastsed. I stayed because I was too traumatized to do anything else. I stayed because he begged me to stay.
It is still too soon to say I am 100% committed. Things are getting better. But it’s hard to imagine that I will ever really trust him again, despite the hard work I see him doing to rebuild our relationship. I just can’t see him as the person I thought he was, the person I thought I knew. At the same time I know how hard it is to find love and how painful and difficult it would be to start my life over. Sometimes I can see glimpses of the person he was, even of the couple we were. So I am still hoping.
I stayed because I still love my husband deeply, even though he hurt me more than I had ever been hurt in my life before. In our situation, there was a “perfect storm” of events that occurred, and in his distress he forgot his strong love for me and was not strong enough to stay true to me, particularly since his affair was with an old GF (and apparently there can be neuro-pathways formed in early relationships that never go entirely away). I did not stay for my kids, although I would have been so sad to see our family torn apart. I don’t think my husband is a bad person – he was just a very weak person during that time, so I felt some compassion for him even while I was also very disappointed in his weakness. So my respect for him has diminished, at least for the time being. I hope it can be restored. I love him to death, and I hope we can use the experience to remember never to take each other for granted and to savor the moments we have together. I can and have forgiven him, but I will have no patience for any further deception or betrayal, because if anything happens a second time it is not a mistake, it is intentional.
Kali, well put, my situation was the same, a “perfect storm” and an ex-GF, and the most intense pain imaginable. I also have a lot of compassion for how lost he felt during that “perfect storm.” and ALMOST understand how it could all happen, lol. My respect for my boy has also diminished, but my love for him has not.
I’m very interested in your comment about the neuro-pathways, and will do some further research on that. Maybe that is also part of why I stayed, as I was just 20 when I met him, and he is, to this day, my closest friend and greatest ally. Interesting stuff. Thank you.
When I first found out about my wife’s EA I was on a business trip. And as I was about to take the plane back home, I was fully convinced to kick her out of the house. The flight got cancelled and that gave me a full day to sleep over it. The next day I was convinced that I was not going to give away my wife that easy to the stupid OM. As I arrived back home on the day after D-Day, I set the record straight. I told her I was willing to work it out if she did the 180 degree changes we needed for this marriage to work; I also gave her a deadline, if by the time our second daughter was of to college (she was a freshman in HS on D-Day) my W had not made the changes needed, we would divorce. So I think my main reason to stay was because I hated the OM so much that I was not going to give her away that easy. The second reason was that I didn’t want to rock my daughter’s life so much as she was starting HS. We are a year an a half since D-Day, and my wife has not done almost anything of what I asked for, no huge changes, and we are not in a better place than before D-Day, Sometimes I wonder if I should have kicked her out on D-Day!. I committed to stay another 2.5 years and I’ll be true to my word (I ahould’t as she was not true to her vows to me!!!). At this point I think I’ll divorce as soon as my second daughter goes to college. It’s sad to see that my W said she would do anything to fix this back on D-Day and not to see any actions in 1.5 years to back up her words.
Ocanas,
That pain you feel about wanting to keep your commitments and not rock your daughter’s world as she goes through high school, while watching your wife ignore the commitments she made to you, well..that’s profound and it’s hard to stay with. How do you manage to not let that poison your life in your daily interactions? Is anything better than it was?
I’m wondering if you two can get into counseling together?
Fiorastar, good point on the “poison” the rest of my days. I now have three very close friends asking me what’s going on with my wife and if they can help at all – I really love these friends and am grateful for their concern – but back to your point, it looks like I won’t be able to keep this from poisoning everything else for too much longer
Out of eight deal breaker issues she committed to change, 3 were done very well, but the other 5, each of them being a big deal breaker on it’s own, have not been addressed at all. if and when she goes to counceling for her issues, I would consider going together – as with many other cases here – her EA was mostly because of a ton of childhood issues she has never addresed; so unless she addresses those, I can’t stay as we’ll be in the boat a few years from now. Something big has to change or I am out
Ocanas. I respect your decision to put your own needs aside for your daughter so as to not “rock her world” with a divorce while she is in high school. But understand that you may be damaging her anyway with the actions and inactions of her parents at this time, for the last one and one-half years, and for the time from now until you finally seek a divorce from your wife. Kids are, I believe, more perceptive than we often think, so if your household is anything like my household was while my W was involved in her EA, it’s not the best environment for raising children. Also, a potential lesson that might be learned from this by your daughter is that it’s ok to stay in an unhealthy and unhappy relationship even though the better course to take is to end such relationship and move on to bigger and better things, even if the moving on is to become a single parent and devote most, if not all, of your time to caring for your daughter.
Our counselor told my W and me that if we had to label her, we should label her “pro-marriage” but we should understand that she did not, by any means, believe in continuing in a marriage, or any relationship for that matter, for the wrong reasons or with damaging results. She also said that she was a firm believer that one spouse can and should if at all possible earn their way out of marriage, and that H’s and W’s experiencing marital problems should as much as possible do everything they could do to try to “fix” such problems and re-establish a relationship that makes them healthy and happy. As to the latter, through counseling and re-committing to our marriage and the ending of not only my W’s EA, but any behaviors along those lines that were causing damage to our marriage, my W and I are now much better partners for each other and way happier, something that is not lost on our children, although they do not know the specifics of what all transpired, but they do know that “mommy and daddy are much better now”. As far as earning our way out of our marriage, we established in counseling actions and inactions that, if allowed to continue, would eventually justify the appropriate party’s ending of our marriage. Needless to say, not doing anything to “fix” identified problems, including not stopping inappropriate behaviors (behaviors established as inappropriate based on how they impacted our relationship which included any continued contact by my W with her AP and the establishment of any new relationships with other men which crossed mutually agreed upon boundaries), was something that would allow one or both of us to earn our way out of the marriage.
I agree with Fiorastar that if you haven’t already gotten counseling assistance, you should (the greatest probability is that it will help at least a bit, if not only to allow you to see that for whatever personal reasons it will not be of any further help at some point, and it is highly unlikely, in my opinion, to hurt anything). My W and I are very thankful that we saw one counselor together and individually. The individual sessions were still directed toward, almost exclusive, our marriage as opposed to individual issues, although most “individual issues” seem applicable to the marriage as well. There were a number of reasons that we felt our individual sessions, coupled with our joint sessions, helped tremendously to getting to a point where we could work on our marriage on our own, a point we felt we reached more quickly by having the opportunities to meet alone with our counselor. However, the biggest benefit to having our individual sessions, looking back in hindsight, is that the individual sessions lessened the inevitable feelings that the counselor in the joint session was taking one party’s “side” over the other party, which was especially important for us as we were dealing with an EA and all that goes with that and it would have been easy for my W to feel as though the counselor was at times “against her”. We also often addressed things for the first time during individual sessions, and then either dropped them as not being necessary for discussion during joint session, or learned from the individual sessions how to best bring them up during joint sessions and how to best react during the joint sessions when anticipated partner reactions took place. It was also important for us both to understand, and our counselor strongly asserted, that everything that was discussed during individual sessions could come out during joint sessions (i.e., no counselor-patient priviledge since the “client” was agreed upon to be our marriage, not our individual selves).
Good luck my man!
Healing Mark, thanks a lot for the insights of your experience with counceling. It’s definitely something I’m considering once she decides to go on her own and start working with a therapist on the childhood issues that caused the EA to happen in the first place – we have clearly identified them through tons of open heart to heart conversations and a bunch of great books. I’m glad you were able to get to a better place.
I know I have to keep an eye for my daughter to limit the damage to her as much as possible – be it stay until she leaves for college or leave in her Junior or Senior years in HS – and my real concer is that being so deep in the woods, I may not be the best to asses the damage to her. as I told Fiorasatr, after a year and a half after D-Day, close friends are starting to ask what is going on, so I ‘m learning that if they are noticing it, I bet my children are also
Hard decisions coming up in the near future
I stayed because I could not imagine being alone with out her and I love her but after several months now I’m wondering if the best thing for both of us wouldn’t be to go our separate ways.
I’m having a hard time with it all and it seem like reminders are everywhere when I go out and at home as well. I trust and hope one day and feel like throwing in the towel and saying to hell with it all the next.
Benny, you mentioned it’s been several months. That is not a very long time. You can expect this roller coaster ride for quite some time. These feelings are normal. Work on yourself, decide what YOU want from your marriage and in life and go for it. Is there no contact with the AP? Are you and your spouse working on the relationship by talking, setting boundaries, having total transparency, seeing a counselor? It’s a long haul, but repairing your relationship is possible with hard work on both your parts. I’m 6 months past D-Day 2 and am seeing immense progress. My best to you!
I stay for the simple reason that I love my husband. It has only been lately that I have even thought about the repercussions to our children, family, finances and stability.
My husband’s affair was in 2007-2008 after the death of his father in fall 2006 and before the death of his mother in summer 2008. We were going through a rough and somewhat distant time in our marriage and all the grief we both felt about his parents piled on top of it. Although I was suspicious then, I never found hard proof until his return from a deployment in November of 2011 because he went on multiple deployments between 2009 and 2011 and was gone much of those years. I found texts to 2 old HS girlfriends (two EA’s at the same time while gone in 2011) and then later after digging around through his stuff pics of his AP from 2007. He denied until I found solid proof (A video of them together). I was devastated because he lied 4 times stating he never had an affair then I keep finding more until he finally tells me all. Since then I have repeatedly asked why HE stayed if he felt so unhappy because I DO NOT and never did want him out of family obligation or guilt, or because of what others may think, I only want him to stay if he truly still loves ME. I told him he had two better and more honorable choices if he was unhappy in our marriage, talk to ME about it or leave then have other women. He says he never stopped loving me, and that he was stupid and out of control then, but I still am not trusting of him and find it hard to believe that he could lie to my face for years and betray the privacy of our marriage to her and the others and still love me. I have tried to leave more than once since D-Day just because of the pain. He has begged me not to leave and has been the man i married since his return, but I am almost afraid to be happy now. I feel our marriage is less somehow and that our history together is a lie. How do you act normal at family functions like Christmas, then go outside to call your girfriend with your wife whom you profess to love just inside the house with your kids and think it’s OK?
I do think we have talked more than ever in our marriage and gained a greater understanding of each other at the same time and in many ways things are better than before the affair if that makes sense. The stumbling block seems to be me having difficulty getting over the pain and devastation.
I stayed at first because I was in shock and so much pain from the EA, he stayed at this time to help me heal, our love for each other was always there.
Many times I questioned if I left would this pain stop? If I once thought it would help me to leave then I would have left.
We have one at home still and yes he life would have changed for the worse, my emotional health had deterioted and I barely made it through each day.
The thought of adding all the other single parent issues ontop of my recovery would have been too much.
I stayed for me and if he hides anything from me again I will be gone. I am much stronger now my guard is up and there is NO trust.
i stay because he’s been doing everything he can to make me not leave.. i can see true remorse.. we have no sex life now (more than a half year) because i havent forgive him, and he’s not complaining
I stayed for a number of reasons. At first, I think it was just reactive shock. How “could” he be this way? I thought we were in love! I thought he was trustworthy!
Then, it was thinking of our youngest daughter. She’s in middle school, and my eldest was the same age when I went through a very long, difficult, nasty divorce with HER cheating father! The angst between us leaked out and she has forever blamed me for the hurt she felt and the way it destabilized her adolescence. I don’t want to repeat that for my youngest. She is very sensitive and wants to have her family together.
Third, because of the way my spouse used email, Facebook messaging, and other “creative” private ways to communicate, and because he disparaged me with his family, with our friends, and in the greater community network of acquaintances, it’s impossible for me to get out of this “cleanly”…both my daughter and my community network would see it as somehow caused by me if I break up, and he will get off as the one who “gave everything” while everyone sees me as being “the problem”, thanks to the many ways he painted me that way over the years when he was more interested in other women than in working on our relationship. I’m truly afraid I could lose my daughter because of it, if I were to break up with him, not to mention all our friendship network.
Most of all, though, it’s because even after all he did, even though I still can’t trust him, he is essentially a loving man and I love who we can be together, when we are at our best. I’m doubtful that breaking up would “fix” it for either of us, since we’d probably both take whatever is wrong to our next relationship, so we might as well do the work with one another rather than throw our home and family out to try to start over again.
Ultimately, the length of time invested (15 years so far) and the level of investment (a 13 year old daughter), mean it is better to keep moving forward than to start over.
Not just friends is one of the best books I’ve read on this subject
I’m 25 yrs. past E/A S/A? I stayed originally because he lied to me and told me that he only had lunch with the OW for a year. I had received the love letters on her birthday cards that my H wrote from the OW husband. He had tried to warn me 2 yrs. before about this 3 yr. affair. I was shocked, husband out of town and my husband came up with a great story of firing this man’s wife and I believed him as he was always home and was very loving and I didn’t suspect anything. The shock after 25 yrs. of marriage I couldn’t even face. I didn’t even comprehend that I would have known it was a 3 yr. affair if I had noticed that he had sent her 3 birthday cards? Stupid of me, yes, but shock took over, as I trusted him so much and loved him so much and thought he felt the same way about me. We had 2 children in college and a 15 yr. old still at home. I told him to leave even in the beginning and he wouldn’t go. I only found out about it being a 3 yr. affair after confronting him on 3 separate occasions and he would still lie, even with the proof in front of him. We went to counseling, or should I say, I went to heal as I almost had a nervous breakdown, suicide, etc. during the 5 yrs. that we were trying to make it together. He wasn’t remorseful like he should have been and looking back on it I wished we had divorced. After 5 yrs. of therapy, I made a choice to let it go and live life again and forgive him. Now 25 yrs. later, I think that I suppressed everything, as he hasn’t been a good person to me these past 3 yrs., stock market crash, trouble with daughter, ED issues, etc. So, I sure didn’t feel loved by him and then questioned my whole life and choice of staying with him. At 68 my life was flashing in front of my eyes and I didn’t like what I saw. I wish I had left in the beginning after finding out that he did sleep with her on two weekends. The lie detector tests that I had him take showed that he didn’t have sex with her and he did say that it was a commitment that he couldn’t live with if he had sex. He was 40 at the time, she came on to him, he enjoyed the extra flattery and came back for more. Believe me, he got more than enough at home, as I was so much in love with him, put him on a pedestal, etc. Our marriage was pretty decent for about 20 yrs. other than he would drink to much at social occasions, he has since stopped drinking and has finally after 20 yrs. decided to work on our marriage. Now, I’m the one that doesn’t know if their is any love left as I’ve been through so much these past few years with him, in addition to the 3 yr. affair. The letter said it was still going on, but he says it wasn’t and I can’t find any evidence to support what the truth is. All I know for any of you out there, as he claims he has put it all out of his mind, wants to make a new life for us and wants to show me how much he loves me, but doesn’t want to now talk about what happened during the affair. I couldn’t get him to answer them after the affair, so if their is anything that you need to know, get the answers now and not be like me and wanting to know and understand why he did what he did 25 yrs. later. I was so happy, got married at 18, thought I had a man that would only love me as I loved him. Since the affair everything is changed. Even when I forgave him 25 yrs. ago I still never felt that special, untarnished love that only the two of us had together. It’s so sad that an affair with someone that he wanted an ego boost and was 6 yrs. younger than me, messed that up. Now he looks back on it and can’t believe that he did what he did and this last year has been the results of it as I think that I am suffering from PTSD. Sorry this is so long, I just think it’s an unusual result of an affair that has come back to me 25 yrs. later due to his lack of attention to me and anger over stock market issues. Not sure if we are going to get through this or not, can’t seem to find the right counselor, he is willing to go this time and is truly working on the marriage. I still don’t know if they had sex or not and if they did, I would leave in a heartbeat. Some parts of the lie detector tests in regards to that were inconclusive and I know he won’t tell me the truth, as he knows I’ll leave. Just understand, that neither of us had ever been with anyone else, so he said he was to uncomfortable and it wasn’t what he was in the affair for, it was the extra, new attention. I keep saying, it was probably because he wasn’t able to. He was also a high up executive and she was a secretary that was way down the ladder in her position and I think she had her eyes on him as she wasn’t happy in her marriage. She had 2 little girls and they eventually got divorced over this.
I’m sorry, I needed to add more about why I stayed after finding out about the affair, even though he lied in the beginning and I thought it was for just lunch’s. I had always said, “That if he had an affair, I would leave in a heartbeat.” He knew this also, so I was very upset when I got the letters from the OW husband, but without reading them again and him telling me about the lunches, I was so relieved that it hadn’t gone any further, I decided that I could deal with that as I did love him. Then 6 weeks after the affair, I was diagnosed with stage 3 melanoma and was laid up for 3 months and was in no condition to make any decisions. It was after that, when I started going through receipts and slowly found out a lot more. I seriously wish that I had left after 3 D-days of finding out more truths, as he was continuing to lie, even with the counselor telling him that he was setting me back in healing. He wasn’t remorseful like he should have been and I can’t believe that I was the one working on the marriage and he wasn’t. He was just trying to protect himself from he leaving him. So, in hindsight, if I had known the total truth, which took me a year to find out and I still don’t know if they really had sex or not, I wish I had left him. I think in order for a marriage to work after an affair the wayward spouse has to be remorseful and give 100% into making the marriage work and proving to the wife what a mistake he made. Mine didn’t do that and I was stupid for putting up with all that I did, the lying, arguing and fighting, when he should have been on his knee’s begging for forgiveness from me.
I’m new here as I’m sure that many of you can tell from the 3rd. message I’m posting. I forgot to put a check mark by my message as I would like to be notified if anyone does reply to my comment. I hope it works this time as I don’t know how to go back and do it.
Linda. So sorry for the negative emotions you are apparently currently experiencing in connection with your marriage and life. You say that you forgave your H for his affair but it is obvious that you never did. Otherwise, you would not be blaming the problems with your relationship on it. You say that in order for a marriage to work after an affair, the CS has to be remorseful and give 100% into making the marriage work and proving to the BS what a mistake the CS made. No arguments here with this statement. However, I believe that in order for a marriage to work after an affair (and my belief in this regard comes from my experience as a BS), the BS has to eventually genuinely forgive the CS and give 100% into making the marriage work and proving to the CS that the BS is not, and will not, be forever holding the mistakes made by the CS against the CS. Again, in my opinion, if the BS is unable to genuinely forgive the CS for an affair and yet remains in the marriage in which neither the BS nor the CS is happy, the BS is then equally responsible for all unhappiness that results from the foregoing and should not blame anything on the fact that their spouse had an affair.
I did forgive him after 5 years of working on the marriage, which he didn’t participate in with me, only in appearance. I decided to love him again and did for the next 20 years and forgive also. I didn’t hold it over his head and didn’t even talk about it to him. Love is a choice and I made it. During those 20 yrs. we still had problems with his drinking, control and selfishness. I left him one time for a week as he was so drunk he couldn’t even talk and he had driven home from a conference. He still danced with other woman at these conferences’s even though he knew it made me upset. I forgave him, over & over again because I loved him and wanted our marriage to work. Like I said, the drinking at social occasions was always a problem, but he wouldn’t admit it. Every night he would have his 2 or 3 drinks of wine, even if he was sick. I put up with a lot of things that I shouldn’t have had to, that’s why I made the comment that he should have learned from what he did and became a better person because of it, but he didn’t. When the last 3 or 4 yrs. came about, due to what I said, I was concerned their was another A going on as I didn’t seem very important to him and he argued with me a lot and had a temper which was only shown before after the Affair as he didn’t want to answer any of my questions. I even had to meet with the other woman twice and call her to get any information as he wouldn’t tell me anything, thus the lie detector test. Only this last year have I began to ask him why the affair, why the risk of loosing a high profile job, his family, me, etc. when he was only in it for fun? Peggy Vaughn has a book out and her feelings along with some others, are you need to have the whole truth to close those open wounds that never healed. I thought mine had as I never thought of it much after I forgave him. Did I have trigger points, yes I did as he took her to all our special places and I would be driving by them. Our special sunsets, etc. So this year has been very hard, a lot of questions about the affair that I never got, me trying to finally understand, WHY? Us arguing a lot, stress, counselors that didn’t work out. When I say he has tried, it’s only been since Christmas when he stopped drinking that he has put any effort into our marriage, while I forgave him, put up with a lot with out him showing any remorse or trying to make me feel special to him, like before the affair. We had such a loving relationship before that and still had a lot of it after I forgave him. What I’m trying to point out is, by him treating me mean, not loving me in the true sense of everything for months, I got the feeling of not being loved or desired and didn’t understand why? I remember during the affair, that I had to work a little harder for his attention, but I thought it was due to his job, not another woman, if you can call her that, I sure don’t. That popped back in my mind and all of a sudden I couldn’t stop thinking about the affair and that happened during that time and afterwards. Those 5 years were like hell on earth and I felt like I was back there again, especially this past year. I think he should have worked on our marriage and asked for forgiveness after the affair and he never really did that, which I’ll never understand. So, I don’t feel like I am responsible for any of our unhappiness, except for the past few months. I am mad that he brought all this back to me due to his lack of attention and behavior, when I was the one that was doing all the giving. Now, I feel like I’ve been through so much that I don’t know if I have anything left to give. Some days are better than others, but it’s almost like I’m afraid to let my self go for fear of getting hurt again. Thanks for your response, however and I’ll answer the other’s tomorrow. I hope though that you understand what I am saying, as I don’t know how else to put it.
Healing Mark – I have to agree with your point about the BS genuinely forgiving the CS. Up until now, as much as my H and I have committed to staying together and repairing our relationship, i have fought with forgiving him fully. He is truly committed to making things better and I do realize that the one thing standing in our way right now is my total forgiveness. I believe that if I cannot fully forgive him, we will never be whole.
I think I carried my pain and anger like a shield and I believed if I forgave him, it was almost like saying “it’s okay that you cheated on me” and would give him license to do it again.
We’re a few days away from our one year D-Day “Antiversary” and I honestly can say I think I’m almost there as far as forgiving him totally.
Csb. I felt the same way regarding how forgiving might be interpretted. I had to feel very strongly that my W truly understood that her EA relationship was damaging to our marriage and family and that she would not develop similar relationships with others ever again. Several times I felt like I had reached the point of forgiveness, and communicated the same to my W, only to later discover that I was wrong and was not yet really over her EA and the lies and deceit that occurred in connection with it. It was almost a year after my D-day that I really got past what happened, forgave my W, and stopped experiencing trigger events just about every day. The fact that your H is still willing to participate in discussions regarding his EA is commendable, but also probably a sign that you have not yet been able to genuinely forgive him for it. I felt as though I had reached the point of genuine forgiveness when I no longer needed to have discussions regarding my W’s EA. After all, if I have forgiven my W, why is there any further need to discuss that which has been forgiven? And for what it’s worth, once I had truly forgiven my W for her “mistakes”, our relationship improved even more and one upside of this nightmare has been that my W has been open with me since D-day about discussing attempts by a couple of men who were beginning to seek to establish relationships with my W (she is very active in our community) that were closer than we agreed should be established and maintained, and my W quickly set these men straight and their relationships are such that they pose not threat and cause no harm to our marriage (amazing what happens when you cut short attempts to text or email more than reasonably necessary and chose not to participate in discussions about very personal details of other persons lives).
Best of luck as you continue to work towards genuinely forgiving your H for his “mistakes”.
Healing Mark,
I hear you and I commend you for getting over yours so quickly. I don’t think that anyone seems to understand that my H never cooperated with any information or tried to make our marriage better with learning why he did what he did and becoming a better person. He wouldn’t answer any of my questions 25 yrs. ago. I finally gave up, decided to love and forgive him and move on, which I did. In reference to his willingness to answer any questions now, he isn’t willing to. I may ask them, his standard answer is, “I don’t remember” or “I’m not sure!” Then after me talking calmly to him for maybe 30 minutes he then looses it and act’s like he did 25 yrs. ago. So, I wouldn’t say that he is willing trying to help me finally understand the affair that has come back full force. I am not a revengeful person and am not asking these questions to make him suffer. I need to know some answers as to why he would risk everything for another man’s wife, which he said he never thought about. I forgave him for the mistakes he has made for 50 yrs. of our married life, with the exception of the first 10 yrs. I think the drinking is what changed him and our marriage. His job taught him that he was always in charge and control and I think he brought that home with him. So, I’ve done my part in the way of forgiveness, he’s now 49 yrs. later deciding that he might loose me and is now working on the marriage. I haven’t given up, we are both still working on it. Thanks for listening.
Linda, thanks for sharing, you are in the place that I am very afraid to be 25 years from now. My W has not done almost anything to change and turn this marriage around – after a year and a half of D-Day. And I have been very clear (most recently this week) that if she does not put any work on it, I’ll leave pretty soon. Sometimes I feel to do what you did 25 yrs ago, just let go, and move on, without requesting any extra work from her side – why do I think that way? – because I can see how difficult and painful those changes will be and I don’t want to see her going through that. But after reading your story, I realize more than ever that I have to stay in course and don’t give up on my requests – or I could be you 25 yrs from now
Thanks for sharing
Hi Ocanas,
I hope that you aren’t in my position 25 yrs. from now. I was in so much shock in the beginning my brain couldn’t process all of it, then the Melanoma didn’t help. When you are dealing with cancer, weak, pain and can’t process the pain as you can’t believe that it happened, it’s so hard. When I started asking more questions about the A, all I got was lies. I was so upset I told him that I needed to see a counselor to talk to, he told me we couldn’t afford one and we could. It was his selfishness again, always thinking about himself and money, not me. I couldn’t sleep more than 3 hrs. a night, if that. You would have thought that he could see the pain and hurt that I was suffering and respond with love and compassion if he loved me? When it got so bad that I couldn’t even function, I called one myself and she saw me the next day and 5 yrs. after that. I was even suicidal and if it hadn’t been for my twin grandson’s that were born 6 months later and my children, I didn’t care about living at all. I poured the Xanax in my hand one afternoon and looked at them and just wanted to die. Only my family, not the loss of my husband kept me from doing it. I wanted to drive into a tree one night as thoughts of them together went through my mind, walk into the deep end of the pool so I didn’t have to suffer the pain anymore. Those are all the things that go through your mind when the pain of an unexpected affair, that you never dreamed it would happen, does. I was caught so totally off guard by those letter’s, professing that “No one has ever meant as much to me as you and I can’t imagine life without you” hurt me more than I can say.
I’m getting off the point here, sorry. The main thing, is he continued to lie after every discovery on my part, promised their wasn’t anything else I didn’t know, to cover his butt and then a month later would find out something else, equally as devastating. He never cried about hurting me the night I threw the letters at him, he wouldn’t leave and kept telling me that nothing happened, only lunch’s and he was sorry. The next day, he sat down with our 2 daughters and me, apologized to all of us, again repeated that he shouldn’t have done it, but it was only for lunch’s with here. Then he proceeded to cut the grass. I believed him because I couldn’t let my mind go there. I remember sleeping with him that night, don’t know why I did. I think that I was so glad that it hadn’t gone any further and I could handle that, as painful as it was. I remember him loving me that night after comforting me and looking into his eyes, as I held his face in my hands, tear’s streaming down my face and telling him, that I was so glad that he hadn’t did anything else with her. He didn’t say anything, but how could he look back at me, knowing he was lying? He could have come clean the next morning, not put me through the hell I went through. In counseling, when he did go with me, he truly didn’t participate. Five years we went through this, his lying, yelling and not wanting to deal with what he had done, wanted me to forget it and shove it under the rug and move on. I can’t tell you how bad the arguing was, I actually threw a vase at him one time. Where was the remorse, he didn’t try to go to IC which from what I understand on another sight, Healing Hearts is a must for the CS, as they need to know why they did what they did? If they had a loving and good marriage which I sure thought that we had, he needed to know why he gave into her temptations and didn’t love me enough to not do it. That is a must and for anyone one on here, I would sure suggest it, but if they don’t want to do it then it won’t help them at all. It’s got to be their choice. Now you can say that if they don’t go and try to understand and try and sincerely work on the marriage, then that’s a stipulation, along with a time frame as to when you are going to make a decision to stay or go. As everyone on here has said, it takes two to bring things back together and then you have a better chance of making a marriage work after an Affair. I didn’t have that and when I look back on our marriage, I did do all the work, physically and emotionally after the first few years on our marriage. I didn’t think it was unusual as my Mom did the same thing. My H worked, had a high and demanding job, so I did everything possible to see that he came home to the “Cleaver” household. That was the least that I could do, then he could relax after a hard day’s work, never thinking that I was doing the same thing, just not getting paid. He controlled the money also. I just loved him so much, had 3 children and no college education, so I did put up with a lot. So that’s why this A was the line drawn in the sand for me, it wasn’t going to happen to me, as I loved my H, he loved me and I did everything possible to make him feel special and loved and it was from my heart. When he did what he did, he left a permanent hold in that heart. I did forgive him, but our love was never that beautiful love that it was before he brought another woman into our bed. I
In regards to what you should do, only you know that. But I agree, your wife, like my H has got to want to work on the marriage, become a better person for the mistake that they made and try and make up for the pain caused for the other partner. That is the least they can do for the pain they have caused us. Also, they need to work on being a better person and want to learn from this mistake, so at least something good will come from all the pain. That is a what I was trying to point out in regards to my own H not giving in a good way to help me after the Affair and after I forgave him during those 20 yrs. I guarantee you if he hadn’t been drinking so much at that cocktail party, when she came on to him he might have resisted her and not followed through with a A. So, the first thing he should have realized is, STOP DRINKING! But he didn’t until 25 yrs. later, even though it caused so many problems in our marriage that I continued to put up with. Yes, I left him once, due to him being so drunk for a week. I came back on the condition, no more drinking and that lasted for 6 months, then he wanted to ease back into it and I gave in. This happened twice after the A, where their was an ultimatum given, again he slipped back into it slowly and I didn’t walk out. So, to say that I have been through a lot of giving and him taking is an understatement. Now he’s trying and I hope it’s not to late as I am so tired of it all. I pray that your wife comes to her senses and work’s on this marriage for the sake of both of you. I hope that something I said will help you out.
Take care of yourself
Csb, I hear what you are saying about forgiveness. I really felt that I forgave my H, but I don’t think I healed fully inside. I feel that I shoved my feelings of pain and the loss of that special love that the two of us had only shared together, deep into the depth of my heart and soul and couldn’t let myself fully experience it. I think 25 yrs. later that it has finally surfaced in full force. I was so focused on the sex and trying to find out about the A that he wouldn’t tell me about, that I didn’t actually get to the fact that he betrayed me. So, that’s why I mentioned PTSD, as that does happen sometimes, years later. I also forgot to mention that I just did my Dad’s 90th. birthday party and had to get pictures together of our whole family for a slide show. Looking at all of them brought back so many memories, realizing that during our daughter’s wedding he was having an A and that’s why he danced with all the younger woman and I was only 40. I never understood then why, just like I didn’t understand on our 25th. anniversary why he wasn’t that interested in me? My Dad was having an A at the same time as my H and my H knew about it. You would have thought that at our daughter’s wedding that it might have reminded him that he was married to me and stop the A, but he didn’t. Looking at all those pictures brought everything back that had caused me the pain. I do hope that things work out for the two of us, after 50 yrs. of marriage, which we didn’t celebrate as it would have been a farce. I was so upset on that day, as we had a tiny wedding and had hoped to have a renewal of vows in our church on that day with our family there to celebrate with us. But under the circumstances, their was no way that I could do that. I hope this explains a little more about why things are like they are?
PS…in our case, this progress was only accomplished because even one year later, we continue to have open lines of communication and discussions regarding the EA when things come up.
csb,
I wish I could say the same. You were lucky that your CH at least kept the lines of communication open with you. Mine didn’t and that was one of our biggest problems. As it has all come back to me 25 yrs. later, he still doesn’t want to talk about it and that’s why I feel their are still lies. We are at a stalemate right now, living in separate rooms.
I do want to comment on one thing you posted a week or so ago. I don’t think that a marriage that really is a good marriage and then an A happens, will make that marriage better. It’s not anything that you could have done different and maybe not even your CH, he got tempted, couldn’t resist for one reason or another and decided, like EVE to taste it. As another one on here said, we can’t compete with novelty. That’s what that other person brings to the table and when you have a partner, even though you think you have a wonderful, loving marriage like i thought may go for it.
I’m sorry you have went through this and are having a hard time. I know how you feel.
Linda
I’m still undecided but leaning on divorcing and it’s been over two years. Forgiveness is one thing; trusting the same person again and living with said person is a completely different animal.
I can honestly say that if it weren’t for my two young daughters, I would’ve left a looooonnnnngggg time ago. Being that she owns the house (all for a stupid tax break) and living in a no-fault divorce state, I’d be the one getting slapped around in family court in terms of alimony and child support payments as if I was the one having the affair. How many folks can survive on their own on less than 60% of their paycheck, especially in this economy?
Dejay,
I hope that things go well for you, being in a state where it’s a no-fault one is bad. Fl. at least isn’t like that, so I wouldn’t worry if I got divorced. In regards to your 2 daughters, are they going to be happy with 2 parents who aren’t happy? That’s always the hard part and I’ll never understand why the CS doesn’t think of the children when they decide to do the cheating? Yes, you can forgive, but the trust will always be with eyes in the back of your head. As my counselor once said, his true personality will never change. You will just know him better and be able to see when he is lying and that’s the same with the trust.
Best of luck to you.
Dee Jay, I know exactly what you are going through. I stayed with my lying, cheating scum and my only regret is I didnt leave his nasty ass 3 years so when he announced he wanted a divorce. I stayed, hoping it was best for my then five year old daughter and myself but I was wrong. I gave this guy so many chances and I was repaid by continued contact with his whore. I say Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish. Looking forward to a divorce and life with out a lying, cheating whore
Gizfield,
The one good thing I can say about my CH is that their wasn’t any contact with the other woman. That would be a deal breaker for me. I agree with everything you are saying.
Good luck
Thanks, Linda, but I wouldn’t put too much faith in the no contact thing. I believed this loser for about a year 2 different times. They have so many ways to contact people and hide it you would not even believe. You can set up accounts to forward texts and calls to secret numbers and erase them, get secret phones, use pay phones if you csn find one. And of course there is the good old United States Postal Service, lol. They can send each other”trinkets” and love notes through the mail…
Gizfield,
You are correct in that and it was dumb of me to say it. I did feel that that time that the A was over, as he told me it ended a year earlier and I couldn’t find any evidence on receipts that would disprove what he was saying. He was always home, not late after work like before when I thought he had to work late at his job, while they were meeting for drinks and dancing at cocktail hour. But what I have always wondered about is, the letter from the other woman’s husband said that it was still going on? I never got a chance to ask him, “Why do you feel that it is?” He mentioned, “Has he been anywhere without you lately?” I didn’t see any receipts to tell me that their had been a weekend, like I did on the other 2 weekends, so I couldn’t come up with any evidence. But I often wondered why she would meet with me 8 months after I found out about the A from her husband, unless her and my husband were getting their stories straight? I do believe that it was still going on and that they were still in contact with each other. She no longer worked at the office with him, but their could have been phone calls to her where she worked after that. I feel they broke it off after the letters were sent to me as she was afraid that her H might take the girls away from her if they got divorced, which they did get divorced one year after the letter’s came to me. Back 25 yrs. ago, the computer was something he didn’t have, so that wasn’t possible, but he had during the affair sent her a note on his office memo about getting together, so yes, he could have easily done that. I don’t think phones like that were available 25 yrs. ago either, only pay phones and that could have been arranged. She only lived 3 miles from our home and I always found it odd that he left for a while that day, but with him being home with me after I got that letter, I don’t know how they would have taken the chance with any phone call’s to see each other? Who knows, I believed him the first year after getting a letter from her H telling me that an affair was going on and I believed his lying excuse, that he had fired this man’s wife. If I hadn’t trusted him so much, I should have called her husband and asked about the letter. But that’s what trust does for you, so I’ll never trust again. Even know, I don’t believe half of what he tells me about the A, 25 yrs. later and if I do stay, I might insist on another lie detector test from a more qualified examiner, not the cheap one that I used. I don’t know if I can live with a man, even though I did forget about it pretty much for 20 yrs. now that it’s all come back and that has caused a big trust issue.
Thanks for the insight, you could be right. I just feel that their were no more weekends after that, as he was always home and the same thing after work. But their could have been lunch’s. I’ll never know, as I’m living with a man that I can’t trust his word.
Linda, I am so incredibly sorry I did not mean for you to think what you said was dumb or that you shouldn’t say it. so please dont think that! I just see do many people bragging on here Theres no contact! And that is just about absolutely impossible to prove unless you are with somebody every second of the day. My husband was “talking” with his tramp every day whore I was at work! Eventually I just got tired of being his moms
Oooops, I just got tired of being his momma and said Good byeeee!
I know Anita was on here so lot talking about how much more difficult it is to leave a cheater than stay. I always thought she was wrong because my issues were with having to be around a cheater.well, I now KNOW that it is much easier to leave. I haven’t told anyone yet, due to legal concerns but I feel 150 millions percent better than I have in 3 years. I truly hate divorce but thank god for it because it’s a wonderful thing. NOBODY should put up with a lying, cheating bunch of bullshit from anybody. Fog, excuses, whatever you want to call it, it is just crap from a liar.
Gizfield,
I didn’t take it that way at all, so not to worry. I was already made a fool of by a H that I loved and trusted so much, who totally changed my life by what he did, along with our children. I had thought of them being in contact in regards to me finding out about the A from her husband and I guarantee you one of them called the other one at work that coming Monday. Remember their wasn’t disposable phones back 25 yrs. ago and we didn’t have a computer. I sure wish I had, as I can find out a lot on it. I just had 4 yrs. of receipts to go through, found some things and don’t know why, but threw all them away a couple of years ago, except for the yr. that I thought it ended. Big mistake, but would cost me $500 to get them from a bank that is no longer in business. Not sure if it’s worth it. The question was asked on the lie detector test, two of them and they contradict each other on when it ended.I really get so tired of not knowing the truth.
Take care of yourself.
Linda,
I have to thank the computers we have nowadays. I was able to read most of the interactions my W had with the OM, -it’s both good and bad – as some of those things will haunt me forever – one the other side, I can use that info so I don’ t forget how bad it was and why I’m asking her to put up with the work needed to restore our marriage.
Take care
ocanas,
I only had 3 letters, even though it hurts to read it, it shows you the truth and I would give my life, well almost, to know all the truth. The words will always stay with you, but it’s better to know it, then to wonder all your life if you stayed like I did. I so wish I didn’t, as I could still be living a lie and at 68, it’s hard to make that decision. It would have been easier at 40.
Best of luck to you,
Linda
I never could get the truth out of my loser husband but I did get something so much better! Not giving a flying damn about the”truth”any more about what happened between a couple of whores. Ughhh. They said love never dies but trust me it can die in the blink of an eye.
I am very scared and excited at the same time. I decided a couple of months ago when I found my husband was still talking with his tramp daily while I was at work that I was DONE. Unfortunately, I was you afraid to actually do anything about it. today I called an attorney and have an appointment at 3:30 Monday. You know the old joke: why is divorce so expensive? Because it’s WORTH IT!! Lol. Seriously, I never thought this would happen but I am so disgusted with living with a LIAR!!!!!
Gizfield: thanks for the joke. Got a good laugh! Especially because I work for an attorney! I get to see the worst in divorcing couples. But the expense is totally worth it when you get rid of the lying bastard!
I know, Natalia, it is good to have the upper hands for once. This guy had made my life a total living nightmarefor 3 years with his lying whoring bullshit. He thought he was oh so cute talking with this slut while I was at work. Guess it’s not so cute now.
@linda
Very thought provoking thoughts.
If we don’t do the work now it may haunt us later on.
I read a great article on another forum from DJ
it was about the high cost of infidelity
Maybe Doug can post it?
But there is a high cost, more than the monetary cost in all the damage that is done to the BS
There is no just getting over it
Surviving, I assume you are referring to an article by Rick Reynolds about the high price of forgiveness that was recently posted on DJ’s blog. Here it is: http://affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity If this isn’t what you’re referring to, just let me know.
Thanks Doug,
I did read it and it was very profound and the best that I had ever read. I printed it out for my H to read, but he didn’t say anything about it until I asked him. He is over talking or even thinking about this and just wants it to go away. At least he read it, but didn’t want to discuss it. Thanks for re-posting the link.
Linda
Thanks Surviving,
If what I said will help anyone not be where I am today, it will all be worth what I wrote to help. It’s hard trying to remember what happened 25 yrs. ago, it’s not for me, but my darn H claims that it is and I really don’t believe him. He just doesn’t want to face what he did and wants a normal life again. Unfortunately, no matter how long ago it happened, when it isn’t cleared up, it will come back to bite you in the butt, excuse my language.
Linda
Linda,
I hope you will continue to use this site. Around a year ago
I stumbled on to this site by accident. This site gave me the courage to reopen the can of worms, so I could start
my annulment process after my divorce, which at this point
in time is on inactive status. However between my annulment process and this site I was able to get a deeper level of healing and into total forgiveness, along with prayer and reading my Bible.
Infidelity, and in my case divorce, need not be a lifetime
sentence to unhappiness.
I hope you will find the peace you are looking for as you
make your journey through this.
As your memories resurface, work through the pain, and
forgive each one as they come, in time as you forgive each one, you will heal. The good news is that you can overcome this. Take Care
Hi Amanda,
Thanks for the nice message. I’ve been on this site before, just have never posted. I sure didn’t want to open up this can of worms on purpose. You can read why it happened, due to H’s action’s 3 yrs. ago. I had put it past me for 20 yrs. like I said. Obviously, it’s not fun to relive all of this as it is physically and emotionally draining. I thank you for your words of encouragement, I just hope that I can do what you are suggesting. I forgave once for the A and have so many times afterwards and before the A also. After a while you get tired of forgiving the same thing over and over again, when that person doesn’t make any changes. Yes, he’s finally made some, but it took over 40 yrs. to do so. The other site that I have found very helpful is this one. http://www.network54.com/
I’ve been on it almost a yr. now and they are also very helpful with everyone there to offer suggestions and just to listen. Their are also some good books to read that they suggest also. I have always found good things in the topics on this site and am glad that I joined in this particular blog. I just hope that something I have said will help some one else. I hear you about the Bible and prayer, I use to do that and have gotten away from it. It use to give me peace to read it, now I just feel so tired emotionally that’s it even hard to focus on anything that I’m reading. So much is riding on the line in this almost 51 yr. marriage, after it all has returned to my mind. I just don’t seem to know how to heal the pain of what has all come back, that I didn’t heal 25 yrs. ago.
Thanks again for your help,
Linda
Linda,
A friend of mine told me once that she had read a book, from the betrayed spouses point of view, that betrayed spouse tried for 18 yrs to heal from the infidelity of her husband, she would make progress, and relapse, she compared it to having a scab over a wound, however it
always felt like infection, so she would pick at scab over and over again, therefore she never healed and she divorced.
I know that is a story of one person, and I am sure that there are some couples who have healed from this, and
who are very happy.
For myself my marriage did not survive my exhusband’s last affair, and we divorced. I have healed and forgiven
him. I did read the article that Doug mentioned by Rick
Reyonlds, and I do have to agree in my own case I was
the person who forgave, but not reconciled. My exhusband
and I get along and he has since remarried another woman he met later after our divorce.
The point what I am trying to say is that, after my divorce
my emotional connection to my exhusband was gone, and
because we live in different states we never are around
each other except on a rare occasion. It helped me in getting over him, and it allowed me to begin a new life,
because I am over him, I am no longer in pain, and because my pain is gone, I was able to come to total
forgiveness.
That is much different then staying with someone who your
around on a daily bases. I hope you will be able to come
to a place of peace in all this. Take Care and God Bless.
Hi Amanda,
First I listened to the song, Forgiveness and it was beautiful. Sometimes easier said than done. I think as I look back on the A and after the A for the next 25 yrs. I forgave over and over again. I forgave the excess drinking, control, selfishness, but most of all, his not making me feel special! I had done so much after his A, counseling, church, loving him again and forgiving also. The least that he could have given back to me was remorse, showing me how special I was after taking him back. Treating me with respect all the time, not knocking me down in front of friends, as he thought it was cute and I would laugh to save face. I don’t think he was doing it to be cruel, he just liked to tease and I would be the one he would do it to, then he got extra attention from it. Never thinking that it hurt me inside. I would tell him, he wouldn’t do it for a while, until the next time. It was all about him getting attention which he obviously needed so much of. I couldn’t have given him anymore, before or after the A, but it was never enough for him. I think the least he could have done was to love me like he did when we first got married, after me taking him back after the A. At 25 yrs. I loved him as much then as I did the day I married him. Did I like him when he drank to much, controlled or was selfish, no I didn’t, but the love was still as strong. For someone who swore that if her H ever had an A on her that she would leave in a heart beat, you would have thought that he couldn’t have done enough for me because I didn’t leave him? I loved him again, forgave him so many times for things he shouldn’t have done. He was never that remorseful, didn’t grow up and become a better man after the A. Usually when a person goes through a life altering experience they change for the better, but he didn’t. That I’ll never understand, just like I’ll never understand the A either. For 3 yrs. he betrayed me, lied, sleep with a married woman and then came home to me. I’ll never know if they had sex or not, as parts of the lie detector test came back non-conclusive in one part. Right now, I’ve moved into the guest room, I just don’t want to sleep with him right now. I’m not after him for revenge, I think I know why it all came back, as I’ve mentioned. We were pretty happy those 20 yrs., I didn’t hold a grudge, laughed together, vacation, etc. and most of the time enjoyed each other’s company. So, it seems so strange to me, that a stock market crash, daughter owing us a great deal of money and him having some depression or something over the above, plus not loving me very often and then the temper and drinking could bring us to where we are today? I put up with the 3 yr. thing, also had a lot of back pain issues due to slip & falls which he didn’t deal with very well and wasn’t compassionate at all, so that affected some of our traveling that he thought we were going to do during his retirement. We did a lot of that, but then he would worry me so much before the trip that my back might go out, that I would tense up and sure enough, it would sometimes. So, he wasn’t a happy camper for a while. So how did we get to where we are today? He’s now trying to make the marriage work and I’m not even sure if I want to be married to him anymore. I can’t seem to get those feelings back again, but it’s hard for me to believe that you could lose them in 3 to 4 yrs. Any suggestions would be welcome, as I don’t know how much longer I can hold on at 68 yrs. of age. I just wish I had left at 40 when I was in real good health and young.
Blessings, Linda
My only advice is to get as much evidence as you csn cause these cheaters LIE their asses off. I have emails where my soon to be ex invited this tramp out, made reference to stopping by her effing house, which is only a couple of exits down the interstate and swears he only saw her once. I’m the crazy one cause he “didnt do anything.,” lol. He has lied pretty much continuously for 4 years and expects me to believe he only lied about talking to this whore.really ????????
Oh, in response to the question why did I stay ? Cause I’m a dumbass. Thats really all I can say, lol.
I would love to see the article about the costs of infidelity as well. Tooooo high, whatever they are. I had a busy ddy, defriended my husband on facebook, as well as blocked him. He is always looking at everything I do and commenting on it. not cause he gives a crap about me but because his narcissus ic ass is afraid someone will see him in a bad light. Too bad they couldnt see him one inch from my face this morning screaming “whore” at me. If anyone ever needs help picking a loser, please let me know. I’m better at it then anyone I’ve ever met. I should start a business…
This is my last comment of the night, I promise. Like I said effort, I made an appointment with an attorney for next week and also told my husband I did so. I hate that it had to come to this, but I feel more empowered and happy than I have in years !!!! I no longer have to listen to a bunch of damn lies, and wonder whether they are thetruth or not. It is WONDERFUL!!!! No more what should I do, does he love me, I’m so hurt, blah blah blah. I’m beginning to wonder if I’ma closet sociopath, lol. Seriously , I never cry. The last time I remember was October 2, 2011 when I caught my wonderful spouse yet again in contact with his tramp. Oh well, if I should happen to be a sociopath it is great and I highly recommend it.
The best of luck Gizfield!
Thank you, Ocanas. Your wife and my husband should get together, lol. I’m sorry, I could not resist. He had done nothing as well, except continuing to lie and sneak around. I found out recent ly that he thinks he did nothing wrong, nobody will tell him who he csn talk to, etc. my thoughts to him are Buddy if you put your right to sneak around and be a confidante to another woman above your wife and child, you no longer deserve them and they should find someone who does. I did not get married to be in a competition for my husband and if I am she can have him ! Love only does it for me to a certain point and that is beyond the point. Nobody wanted this to work more than me, but I can only do so much. It is destroying my mental and physical health. I dont deserve that, the adulterers do, NOT me. Good luck to you as well.
Linda…I disagree with your counselor that a person cant change. I think that was really bad advise. People can change…I have seen it not only with my husband but with other people in my life. Will they slip and make mistakes…absolutely but humans are capable of change…if that is what they truly want. We cant change anyone…we can only change ourselves and that works both ways. My husband IS a different man then he was 2 years ago….if he had not made those changes I know our marriage would not have worked. Does he make mistakes…yes….but I keep waiting for him to go back to the person he once was…that hasnt happened.
Gizfield…..Even though you have made a choice to seperate from your husband …your anger is coming through loud and clear in your posts not relief or happiness. I dont think its fair to say that people are “bragging” on this forum that their spouses have no contact with their affair partners….for many that is the truth. Not everyones story is the same as yours and I feel like that takes hope away from those who believe that their partners are honoring no contact. I hope that you find the peace you seek in the future and much happiness in your new life. I am sorry it didn’t work out and you have endured so much pain.
Im working on forgiveness…
I stayed for a lot of reasons… The kids. Thats my #1 reason. and then~Ever heard that saying that your 1st boyfriend is your hardest to loose?? Well, my husband is my first (and only) boyfriend since the age of 14… it all started in 1988. We married in 1994 when we were 21. And here we are. I will never be the same. Im left with anxiety, pain, a new found strength to speak my mind. He is such a changed man over this (in a good way) after reading and doing the LOVE DARE. And reading anything and everything I told him to read and read some things on his own. He read the 5 LANGUAGES of APOLOGY~by Gary Chapman. His apology to me was as if HE COULD WORK FOR THE HALLMARK CARD COMPANY! If I can just get rid of the nightmares of HER and the triggers& lump in my throat Id be a lot better….. its so hard. My whole life revolved around him and loving him. Constantly thinking of him. So now Im working on forgiveness. Doug and Linda have a good post on FORGIVENESS.
I have a good song by Matthew West called
FORGIVENESS. Here are the lyrics:
It’s the hardest thing to give away
And the last thing on your mind today
It always goes to those that don’t deserve
It’s the opposite of how you feel
When the pain they caused is just too real
It takes everything you have just to say the word…
Forgiveness Forgiveness
It flies in the face of all your pride
It moves away the mad inside
It’s always anger’s own worst enemy
Even when the jury and the judge
Say you gotta right to hold a grudge
It’s the whisper in your ear saying ‘Set It Free’
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Show me how to love the unlovable
Show me how to reach the unreachable
Help me now to do the impossible
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Help me now to do the impossible
Forgiveness
It’ll clear the bitterness away
It can even set a prisoner free
There is no end to what it’s power can do
So, let it go and be amazed
By what you see through eyes of grace
The prisoner that it really frees is you
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
I want to finally set it free
So show me how to see what Your mercy sees
Help me now to give what You gave to me
Forgiveness, Forgiveness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lu5udXEZI
I envy you for the changes your H did! – I’ve been giving my W one year and a half worth of books, articles, blogs, etc. etc. and she has not finished one single book, and has not read ell the articles – I am done here – unless she changes I’m leaving as soon as my youngest leaves for college – there is just so much patience anyone can have
Ocanas, I am thankful for all the changes made… On the other hand, the hurt is so deep that the good changes are still not enough to break down the wall of I CANT BELIEVE YOU DID THIS TO US! When I say “us”, Im saying me & our two daughters….. Believe me, the changes are good, but for some reason, not enough to take away the pain.
About the counseling, It is a must!! I found it helpful to GET MY OWN therapist and HE get his own. Then the 4 of us meet for the marriage counseling. I HOPE YOU CONSIDER THE SAME.
What would happen if you just made the appt. and tell her to SHOW UP if HER FAMILY meant anything to her. Wouldnt that tell her that YOU are still trying after all this time?? If she wont go, then go without her. Let it all out and help yourself. What would it hurt?? It would make a statement for sure!! Point blank~ Have you asked her if SHE still wants to be married to you?? With you wanting to wait til your youngest goes to college, that could hurt you & your daughter more than help. I know there is a post by Doug & Linda on this. If your wife doesnt do the things you ask, are they unreasonable?? Is she remorseful?? Doug & Linda have a post of on this too! What the things the CHEATER MUST DO in order to help the BETRAYED.
Im still in the hopes of having the best marriage ever…. one of these days. I’ve never felt this before… Even after all the changes, I still question his every move!
Im banking on Forgiveness to be the answer for us. I still cant believe it even happened. Working on Acceptance too….
I will be checking back to see what you decided to do! Prayers sent your way.
Wake my heart and take my tears,
Your WALL really hits the. nail on the head! – two daughters here and I still java tha exact question!! – thanks for the advise and ideas – all the best to you!
Ocanas, I found one of 2 of the posts I was talking about!!
https://www.emotionalaffair.org/healing-from-an-affair-changing-from-destroyer-to-rebuilder/
Ocanas, heres another. I am still looking for another that talks about the kids. https://www.emotionalaffair.org/surviving-infidelity-the-top-26-things-you-both-must-do/
Wake my heart at take my tears,
THANKS!!!
To Wake My Heart and take my tears,
On this site that you sent to Ocanas I couldn’t get on it. Do you belong to a separate membership than the free one and if so, which one? Do you feel you get enough extra help to make it beneficial to you?
Thanks, Linda
Linda, both links are in this same website, excellent reading BTW
ocanas,
When I clicked on one of the two that were highlighted to read, it said that I had to have a higher membership? I don’t have any membership, just the free one that allows you on this site, so I don’t understand why I can’t click on it? It’s late tonight, so I’ll address it again later today.
Thanks, Linda
Linda, I am a member of the Higher Healing area. I COULD NOT IMAGINE MY LIFE WITHOUT IT NOW ! Doug & Linda have given me more than they will ever know. I wish they’d do a seminar or get together so I could personally THANK THEM! I am new to commenting on posts but have been a faithful reader since AUGUST 2011. I have read every article and post and have been able to find out what is going on with me! I would of never ever figured most of this out on my own! It ALL used to be free. When they started charging, I had no choice but to get it, Id be LOST without them! I have the membership fees taken right out of my husbands account! It is his fault after all!! 🙂 I didn’t even ask either. He read every single post too but stopped in January this year. He loved the website too cause he had no idea what to do with a wife who couldn’t get out of bed and cried all the time and who was a basket case…. But in Jan. he felt it helped him enough so he didn’t need it anymore. And I think I will need it until Doug & Linda call it quits. I have that fear all the time.
Wake my heart and take my tears: your post brought tears to my eyes. I’ve also felt that Doug and Linda have helped me tremendously. They’ve actually filled in the gaps left by all the books I’ve read and made my H read. I’m in a better place today but still need help to be completely healed. My H is doing his part an for that I’m thankful.
My husband is doing his part too but would NOT be if it weren’t for Doug & Linda. I believe everything happens for a reason. Doug did this to Linda and she had to endure so much to help so MANY more of us. I think my husband did this so I would be able to go through the motions so I can help our daughters out if they have the same issues. I can tell you right now, that with this website and therapy~Ive been able to help my oldest teenage daughter go through her 1st break up. Then they got back together, Thats ok, I have now learned so much more on relationships than ever before that Im ready for when her boyfriend screws up agian!!
Wake my heart and take my tears,
I use to believe that everything happens for a reason, but I can’t agree with infidelity. I don’t think that God would want us to go through this much pain, due to our CH not honoring his marriage vows. He had a choice and he chose to be unfaithful with no regard to what he might lose and the pain he might cause. We’ve discussed this once before and he says, “Life is never perfect, people get killed in accidents all the time and they didn’t chose that.” I came back and said to him, they didn’t chose to be in that accident, it was an accident that happened. You didn’t have an accident, you CHOSE to have a affair, so THEIR is a lot of difference. I hear what you are saying that Linda & Doug went through what they went through and now they can help us. I’m sure in their heart they are glad that they can, but I wonder if you asked them or anyone on here, would they change what happened if they could? I know I sure don’t want to be here due to my CH’s morals or lack of. We don’t have to agree on this, I’m just giving my feelings on it.
Linda
Natalia,
I totally agree with you, those songs said so much and did bring tears to my eyes. It was like they were telling you about your life and what it was all about, the suffering, learning, etc. I’m glad that they were posted.
Thanks, Linda
Wake my heart…, Thanks so much for the kind words. It makes us both very happy to know that we have helped in some way. I think at some point we should all get together somewhere for a seminar, conference or something (party) like that.
How about a cruise! Upper deck for those who stayed married and lower deck for those who divorced so they can be singe to mingle!
Hi Wake my heart and take my tears,
I will definitely be joining the upper level to have access to everything. I definitely have been helped on this site and feel that it would be worth it. Thanks for confirming it, I just belong to another one and sometimes you can get so wrapped up in reading about A’s, that it makes you regress, or at least I’ve found that out.
Thanks, Linda
Wake my heart and take my tears—- Thanks for that beautiful song. The words were very touching and ever so true.
Another song!
LOSING by Tenth Ave North
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX0cmUj4hvw
Lyrics:
I can’t believe what she said
I can’t believe what he did
Oh, don’t they know it’s wrong
Don’t they know it’s wrong, yeah
Maybe there’s something I missed
But how could they treat me like this
It’s wearing out my heart
The way they disregard
This is love, this is hate
We all have a choice to make
Oh, Father won’t You forgive them
They don’t know what they’ve been doing
Oh Father, give me grace to forgive them
Cause I feel like the one losing
It’s only the dead that can live
But still I wrestle with this
To lose the pain that’s mine
Seventy times seven times, yeah
Lord it doesn’t feel right
For me to turn a blind eye
Though I guess it’s not that much
When I think of what You’ve done
This is love, this is hate
We gotta a choice to make
Oh Father won’t You forgive them
They don’t know what they’ve been doing
Oh Father, give me grace to forgive them
Cause I feel like the one losing, oh no
Why do we think that hate’s gonna change the heart
We’re up in arms over wars that don’t need to be fought
Pride won’t let us lay weapons on the ground
We build our bridges up but just to burn them down
We think pain is owed an apology and then it’ll stop
Truth be told it doesn’t matter if we’re sorry or not
Freedom comes when we surrender to the sound
Of Your mercy and Your grace, Father, send Your angels down
Oh Father wont You forgive them
They don’t know what they’ve been doing, oh no
Oh Father, give me grace to forgive them
Cause I feel like the one losing
Yeah, I feel like I’ve been losing
Oh Father, give me grace to forgive them
Cause I feel like the one losing
I feel like I’ve been losing
Oh Father, give me grace to forgive them
Cause I feel like the one losing
Wake my heart and take my tears,
I agree that is a beautiful song also, and the words are true.
Broken two, anger and happiness can co exist, st least for so while. I understand people wanting hope, but we need a few doses of the alternate reality as well. I mean, many people starting thisjourney well be in my spot, it’s just a matter of when. Three years like me, maybe 25 years like Linda but probably somewhere in the middle. I’m not even sure I agree with the No Contact discipline anyway. If my spouse is so eat up with someone else that seeing them or talking with them will result in an attack of love or lust our whatever it is, they are not for me. I dont agree that affairs happen if you are not looking for them. People who are not looking for them dont have them. They are not “mistakes” they are conscious decisions that reflect a lack of commitment, at least at that moment in time. Just my opinions, of course.
Gizfield,
I pop in and out to see how some of you’s are doing, I am
sorry to hear about you and your husband.
I agree most of the people who come to this site are looking for hope. However it isn’t what you or I or anyone
else says that will determine the outcome someone
else’s marriage, that will be determined by the spouses themselves.
With the no contact order, some of the cheating spouses
will follow it, others will take the affair deeper underground,
or they will have an affair with someone else in the future.
The betrayed spouse has no choice but to believe the best
in their cheating spouse in hopes that they won’t repeat
the offense again. Sadly some marriages do not survive an affair, where others do. Sometimes marriages appear
to survive, and later they divorce, and some marriage do
survive however they are not happy, and there are those
marriages where the couple lives happily ever after.
I do have compassion for you and I do understand your
pain, and the anger that your feeling is part of a grieving
process, however the good news is that this pain will not
last forever, and once you have had the time to heal and
forgive, a new door will open for you, and you will find
that infidelity no longer plays a role in your life.
My heart goes out to you, take care of yourself and anger
is part of healing.
Gizfield,
I just realized I used my real name instead of the name Anita, that I use on this site.
However now that you know, I will continue to use my real name Amanda when I pop in and out time to time.
Doug and Linda,
Now that I let the cat out of the bag, I rather use my real
name Amanda. As I have mentioned before my past is over and for myself, I feel that I no longer need to hide that,
and I am ok using my real first name, instead of Anita.
Oh, I will forgive my husband when I no longer have to look at him everyday.
I did forget one interesting thing about anger. When my first husband, the abusive alcoholic died, I went to the psycho therapist. It came out that I was having guilt for being angry that he was an abusive alcoholic. She told me that anger is a defense mechanism and that sometimes it is the only defense mechanism a person has. Bingo!!
Gizfield,
I wish I could tell you that on the day your divorce becomes
final, if you do decide to divorce, that the pain will stop,
Unfortunatley, that’s not the case, only after you have grieved through your loss is when the pain to starts to subside, little by little, until one day it becomes your past, and your new life takes over.
I know there is people who go out and celebrate their divorce, however deep inside they’re hurting. Only
through time, healing and forgiveness are those wounds
healed.
I also had to allow myself to be humbled and look back
on my own mistakes, so I could carry the lessons I have
learned from that so I wouldn’t repeat those same mistakes in my current life. I remember when I first divorced it was all my exhusbands fault, now that I haved
healed and forgiven I could see that I also got to share in some of that blame.
I know right now, your still in a grieving process and it takes
time to work through it all, but when you do, a new door
opens for you. Life is a learning experience for all of us,
and when we can see our own errors, and we can grow
from them, then our lives can blossom even more.
Has anyone ever heard of that saying “ITS NOT A RELIGION ITS A RELATIONSHIP”?? Get a relationship with Christ and your whole world will change for GOOD! I believe my husband has changed forever. Its been a little over a year since his affair. He immediately broke it off with the OW. The funny thing is I AM JUST his wife so he never heard all my compliments to him and I reminded him of at least 5 during the one month affair! Its a huge WOW factor that the one person that made his ego go sky high was the same person that made him feel like total scum when it was discovered!
Hi to Gizfield and everyone else who has been posting on this subject. Well I’ve never been to bed, couldn’t sleep as our relationship is just not at peace. Had another argument tonight. To Gizlield, I’m glad that you made a decision that you can live with and I hope that everything works out for you. I do agree, that you do sound angry, but then again, I haven’t read all the post since the last one I posted late last night. I do agree that when you mentioned that my H could have still been having an A after I found out, it did bother me. I really don’t think he was, because I feel that if he was seeing her he would have stopped for fear of loosing me and his job. Do I think he might have got in touch with her to discuss what happened when her husband sent me the letters, I think that was a big possibility. Their stories were just to similar when I spoke to her. In regards to the person and i’m doing this in a hurry as I’ve been sick and really need to go to bed. When I said that my therapist said that a person can’t change, she meant that they can’t normally change their true personality. They are who they are, but they can monitor those mistakes and be conscious of them and not make them as often. So, that is what she meant. It all comes down to how hard they work at it. Mine had a relapse tonight and lost his temper, which he has, as an example. If he had just counted to 10, thought about it, then he could have monitored himself and not blew up. That’s a conscious thought on his part. So anyway, goodnight to all of you for now, or good morning. I’ll address the rest of these later today. I do however believe with all my heart, if a person gets God in their life,anything can happen!
Take care, Linda
Linda– I have been married for along time. I have been with my husband since I was 15 yrs. old and he was 16 yrs. old. Married at 21 and 22 yrs, old. When my husband had an EA two yrs. ago he came to me just after our 38 th wedding anniversary and told me he was sexually attracted to a coworker half his age. I asked questions which he answered, not sure if he told me everything but I looked at it this way— he kept secrets from me, he invested time with someone else he cheated on me period. It did not matter if I heard all the details nor had any proof
as he admitted to the EA. We now had to make a decision to go our separate ways or to stay and repair the relationship. It’s success would largely depend on his part in the healing process. He now had to rebuild the lost trust I had in him and I had to rebuild my self esteem which he totally shattered and together we mourned that happy marriage that once was and start a new one but with good memories of the past and combine with good memories going forward.
I wish you well.
I have already answered this question in much detail as most of you already know. My question is, is their anyone in this discussion that has had the same situation as I’ve had? Where you made a decision to stay in a marriage and you stay for a long time, but the betrayer doesn’t show hardly any remorse, become a better person after the pain that he caused you due to the affair that he had? My husband can’t understand why I can’t get over it now, due to his not answering the questions that I asked him 25 yrs. ago. I’ve explained why these things came back into my mind in the past 2 yrs. Their has been about 9 months of questions off and on and mostly off. Did most of you on here get answers to your questions about the affair and did you get proof that they were telling you the proof? What if their was no proof that you could find out for sure, did you still forgive them and just go on with your life, not knowing if you are living with a person who could be harboring a lie? Would you want to live with that same person if they told you that if you hadn’t found out about the affair that they wouldn’t have told you? If you didn’t find out about an affair, would you be happier that you never knew? I often wonder, as I realize how happyI was in my marriage, before I found out about the affair from the other woman’s husband. Then you wonder, is it better to know or not know?
Thanks for listening,
Linda
Linda. Please take the following with a grain of salt. Your feelings are, of course, valid, and regardless of the circumstances or how other people might feel given the same circumstances, how you feel is what it is and rather than argue with you over whether or not you should be over an affair, you H needs to accept that you are feeling the way you are and deal with it. I understand that times were very different 25 years ago and discovered affairs appear to have been dealt with much differently then than they are now. Life is too short to be unhappy in a relationship, so fight like hell to change things and be happy being married to your H or, if you find yourself unable for whatever reason to be happy being married to your H (no need to point fingers, really), you should probably end your marriage and look for other avenues to happiness.
Answers to questions to follow. I got answers I needed about my W’s EA and proof that she was telling the truth. Actually, in a few instances in the beginning, I ended up getting proof of a few lies, with my W apologizing for lying (excuse was always that she did not want to hurt me more, but later she admitted that she very much wanted to be forgiven for her EA, which had ended about 6 months prior to D-day, and to move on with the happier marriage we found ourselves with after the ending of her EA without me actually knowing about it, but only suspecting that something was “up”). Please note that I did not require much detail, and really wanted to know just enough to be able to establish acceptable boundaries moving forward. It was important for me to establish that it was just an EA, which I realize cannot be established with absolute certainty, but as long as I could be, and was, satisfied that it was just an EA, I could move on.
I got proof, but I did not necessarily need objective evidence of the extent of my W’s relationship with her AP. Subjective evidence would have sufficed, but I believe it would have taken me longer to forgive my W for her EA under such circumstances as it took me awhile to be able to trust her sufficiently again after D-day, and the re-establishment of such trust would have been necessary for me to move on in the absence of objective proof that what my W was telling me about her EA was the truth.
My W did tell me, and I believe she really meant this, that if I hadn’t found out about the EA, she planned to never tell me about it. So, yea, I’m cool with this. She did cry and tell me that she did want to tell me that I was right when I voiced my suspicions to her, as she hated lying to me. But protecting our family from the damage that occurred once I did find out about the EA was the overriding goal, as was ending the EA once my W realized what damage it was causing notwithstanding me not actually knowing (as opposed to just suspecting) about it. I think that I would feel differently here if my W had no plans to tell me about her EA, and was continuing the EA as opposed to having ended it when my discovery of it occurred. Maybe not. But in any event, I have no problem with the fact that CS do not want to out of the blue confess to having had an affair, and believe that such a confession is wrong and that a CS should just end their affair and take steps to repair the inevitable damage that it has caused to their marriage.
Yes, I would be happier if I never actually knew about my W’s EA. Sure, I suspected. And it hurt to feel like my W was lying to me when pressed about her EA, but not as much as it hurt once I actually confirmed that she had been lying and was having an EA. I really did not need validation of my suspicions. Instead, what I needed was my true wife back, which happened once she ended her fantasy relationship with the AP and returned to being the loving wife that I had before the EA developed. If my W was still maintaining her EA and the wife of her AP alerted me to the EA’s existence, I would be grateful, but still hurt and unhappy. However, if my W and her AP ended their EA, it was later discovered by the wife of the AP, and she then alerted me to the ended EA’s existence, I would have been so pissed! So for me, if the affair has ended, it’s better to not know. If the affair is ongoing, I think that it might be better to know if knowing about it is necessary to get the affair to end. That said, there is always a chance that the affair will end on its own, so not knowing and then having the affair end on its own would be my preference, since knowing hurts so much and leads to the path we are all so familiar with.
Best of luck with your attempts to regain the happiness you had in your marriage. It can be done! Not easy, of course. But not impossible or even that improbable.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the nice explanation of your feelings about your W emotional A. I understand totally, but had never heard that A’s were handled differently 25 yrs. ago? I just remember my counselor, actually ours also, but he didn’t participate actually when he was in our sessions, not focusing on the details that I so needed. To press him about the sexual part of it and to dig deeper into why he could have slept with her and no sex.? I know it was killing me as that was the deal breaker, the sex, but she was trying to make me look at it as a betrayal which I couldn’t seem to deal with, but do now and that is hurting me just as bad. The thoughts now of the actual 3 yr. period that he could be seeing her and come home to me and act like nothing was happening blows my mind. Even after the OWH sent me a letter one year into the A and he talked his way out of it, while in the hotel room with her, telling me that he had fired this woman and the H was getting even with him and stupid me, believed him! Those are the things now that are driving me crazy and he doesn’t want to discuss them anymore, as he says, “we have discussed them to death!” In my mind, we haven’t as I still don’t see how anyone can look and sleep with their spouse after being with the cheating one?
My biggest question to you is this. If you knew for sure that your W had been in the same bed with the OM at least on 2 weekends and she told you that they didn’t have sex or do anything of a sexual nature, because she told you she couldn’t have brought herself to do that as it was where she drew the line, would you believe her? My H and I had gotten married at 18 and had never been with anyone else and he said, “He would not have been able to do that with her as it would have been something he couldn’t handle and that’s where he drew the line.” He said, he enjoyed being away with her on the weekends, the attractions they went to, not looking over their shoulder, did feel guilt at different times, but it was never for the sex.” He told me they didn’t even french kiss (boy am I dating myself) but he did touch the top of her breast as he didn’t want to look like he wasn’t a man at all in bed with her and that wasn’t every time. She said the same thing, but then one other time in a statement, used the word sex and guilt together. Her H confronted her with the same question and she first said, No, then when he made front of my H, she told him that they did have sex. I’ve had him take 2 lie detector test’s 25 yrs. ago and the part having to do with the sex and if he wasn’t able to are non-conclusive. It makes me sick to my stomach, even now, if he did have sex with her and we’ve been sleeping together for 25 yrs. I’ve got to find out if that happened or not, as that is a deal breaker for me, it’s something I can’t stand to even think about and if he’s been lying to me all these years, which he swears he hasn’t, I would be even more mad. Sorry this is so long, but you get the idea of what I’m dealing with. I still don’t know if the A was even over at that point, as the letter that the CSH sent me, said that it was still going on. I have a feeling in my gut that it was, but I have no way to prove it. I tried getting in touch with the CSH by letter and he wouldn’t respond. I even went to his home and he wasn’t there, so I would have to go back there again and that was so hard to do the first time. He would know why he said that to me. I am so frustrated, tired and almost sick with worry, but I can’t let it go! God, I wish I could, but I just can’t. So if you can answer that one question I would really appreciate it.
Blessings, Linda
Linda. Whoa. I’ll answer your question below.
Broken2. Let me clarify. I did need to know certain details, mostly those that I discovered on my own and some that my W supplied me with, some of which I then wished I didn’t get to know even though they were fairly tame. They were, after all, details about a relationship that nearly wrecked our marriage and permanently damaged our children, so no matter how tame, they still hurt. Mostly actions that would have been no big deal if they took place in the context of an appropriate friendship. And by appropriate, I can’t help but look back and say that the fact that my W developed feelings of attraction for the OM led to many of her actions being viewed by me as inappropriate.
Linda. My W and the OM each described to me, and for a number of objective and subjective reasons I truly believe them (or am at least comfortable enough with my trust and belief to not continue to wonder about this and be bothered by the fact that I cannot be 100% sure about this), the fact that the one line that they were adament about not crossing was having sex while married. So under my circumstances, I was able to believe my W and the OM with limited objective proof that at least at a time they were talking about (in an email) how, while they were curious about what sex between them might be like, there was no way that they would risk it, and how sad this made them feel (ouch!). There was even another email between them I found where they even agreed that if they had sex, their respective spouses would then no doubt discover the fact that they were having an affair, and also agreed that if they did not have sex, their special “friendship” would likely be able to continue undiscovered for what it really was (about a month later they “broke up” and agreed to remain “just good friends” – seriously!). My sentimental and at times goofy W kept these emails because they were “special” for her, but she was not very good at trying to hide them). However, and I hate to share this with you, but one of the reasons I was able to believe the no sex story was the fact that both my W and the OM separately admitted that they avoided getting into a situation where the ability to have sex was present (mostly, they avoided getting together alone at one home or the other while families were gone and no one would suspect that they might have gotten together), because they admitted that the temptation was, for a time, so great that they were afraid that they would “fail” and have sex.
So, would I believe my W if she were in the same position as your H and told me that no sex occurred? Probably not. I can only speak from experience, but if another woman wanted to have an affair with me, and the opportunity has unfortunately arisen before, and I allowed myself to be in the position you describe your H as having been in, there is zero chance that I would not have had sex with the OW. To avoid this result, I would, and have, nipped things in the bud long before getting into a situation where the opportunity presented itself. Not because I don’t trust myself to not have sex with the OW. But because even allowing myself to get that far with another woman is just plain wrong and so crosses the boundaries that I have with my W for our marriage. And…, ok, I kind of sort of don’t trust myself because I am a man with a you know what and am not a man of the cloth (no child comments here).
My advice for you Linda is to try, try, try to stop worrying about whether your H is telling the truth or not (seriously, lie detector tests?). Convince yourself that it doesn’t matter what happened exactly (i.e., details that you chose to avoid knowing), but that what is really important is that your H has admitted that whatever it was that he did was wrong and will not happen again. Then give yourself some time to hopefully move on from the pain and distrust that has re-arisen due to your H’s actions and inactions (regardless of when these occurred), and to hopefully re-establish a relationship with your H that makes each of you happy and is one that you want to continue to have. And if you can’t get to this point with your H, regardless of the reasons why, then you should, again in my opinion, consider ending what will no doubt be a marriage that is no longer any good for either you, your H or your family.
Finally, the post below by Broken2 contains many statements that I agree with 100% and have experienced just like she has. Much good advice in this post, so read and re-read carefully. And good luck as always.
Healing Mark,
So sorry it was so long, I should have been an author and wrote books about affairs, not a joke and can’t believe I even said it. I appreciate everything that you have told me and I agree with you a lot on what you have said. I still have the same two problems that I have been talking about. 1. The thought of them even sleeping in the same bed on 2 weekends makes me sick. I can’t even look at him sometimes. I feel that he wanted sex with her and maybe with the kissing and making out, nothing was working, so he stopped. Even that makes me mad as he had no business being in bed with her to begin with. If he was so darn uncomfortable, get in the car and go back home with your wife, where you should be.
2. As you discussed a lot in the last part of your message, the knowledge of when this A actually ended I still don’t really know. Her ex-husband in the letter to me says it was still going on. I feel that it was, as their answers seem to back each other up. I’ve asked till I’m blue in the face to tell me the truth, he swears that it ended a yr. before I got the letter from her H. I still don’t believe him.
3. If their is anyway that I can find out if they had sex, I can’t live with that. Even being naked and doing a lot in bed together would end it for me. To know that I had been having sex with my H for 20 yrs. or more after the A, with the knowledge that he had been lying to me, I would be livid and be glad that their wasn’t a gun in the house. I was used enough, FORGAVE, so it better not be so as their would be a divorce.
4. I know you sort of joked about the lie-detector test, but it wasn’t a joke for me to do it. My H put me through 4 D-days of lie’s. He lied in the very beginning and said it was a yr. of lunch’s and I believed him. First lie! If I had known the other 3 lies in the beginning, he would have been out the door. For me to have to meet the OW face to face to ask her questions, which he knew about, because he wouldn’t give me any answers and then he kept lying to me, so I didn’t believe a word he said. I read about a lie detector test and that was my ultimatum to him, either you take it or leave. He agreed and their were some things that showed things were not correct. I had him take another one 8 months later, as we were still having horrible issues. This all took place the the first 18 months. The second one showed a problem with erection or him not having sex because he did or didn’t want to? That showed deception also. I don’t feel that it’s to much to ask from your CS to take a lie detector test when he does nothing but lie for a yr. He even lied to our priest from the very beginning. He allowed me to love him the first night after finding out, because I was so relieved that he had only seen her for lunches. I feel even more humiliated by that as I held his face with my hands afterwards, looking directly into his eyes with tears streaming down my face and telling him how happy I was that it wasn’t any worse than it was! What kind of man or H would allow his crying wife to do that and not come clean the next morning? So a lie detector test was the least of his problems. I also used a cheaper one, so I don’t feel the results are as valid due to all the questions asked.
I know you tell me to put it in the back of my mind and I did for 20 yrs. but it’s now back full force and I just can’t. I am sleeping in the other room and until I get the answer’s I need we are on a holding pattern. I’m not going to let that last very long, as it’s very uncomfortable. I can’t forget this, it’s to strong now and the sex issue has really taken over in my mind. Our love life hasn’t been good for 3 yrs. now, due to his problems of the fall of the stock market, depression, ED, no interest in sex with me, which was not normal and demoralizing for me. I even thought he and this was before I even asked any questions like I have this past year, off and on. So, for me to just let it go, I can’t do that now. I wish I could as he is really trying, but I just don’t feel anything right now. I do appreciate all your help and sorry that you went through all that you had to deal with.
It amazes me when I think back on even 6 yrs. ago, sure their were problems with his drinking to much sometimes and his control issues, but we could at least laugh together. I can’t say that I’ve ever been the carefree woman that I was before the A, as I’m not. He really lost something special when he lost that.
Blessings, Linda
Linda….I feel for you. My husband ended up divorcing me because I pressed him constantly for the details….He was a serial cheater..EA and PA over our 35 years together. I could never prove it until he got sober 5 years ago…and the cheating got more apparent!! This is just my assumption, but I don’t think it’s the thought of him having sex that makes you so sick as it is that you feel he is still continuing to lie to you. It’s the secrecy… I was so stressed with the comparisons of me and the other women….I wondered if he liked having sex with them more than me…if they did things we didn’t and liked it better. If he was more turned on by looking at their bodies vs mine. It’s the crashing self esteem. I don’t want to admit it…but he probably did like them better….It was new and exciting and that part breaks my heart. Of course he lusted after them and it’s me I wanted he to want. How did they interact together? holding hands….looking into each others eyes…dreaming of the future together….feeling all warm and wonderful inside because they were with someone that made them feel so good about themselves……and it wasn’t me. Then the guilt starts to hit….IT WASN’T ME that he wanted….Why…what was wrong with me. Our arguments about alcoholism, his behavior, his lying…….it was all too much for him…and the new women in his life didn’t have those issues…He was on his best behavior for them….Or was he just happier because he wasn’t with me…the “shrew”….and it was my behavior. IT’S ALL VERY CONFUSING AT TIMES….and I think that is your stuggle too… You are standing on sand and trying to continue living in your marriage….your husband has never rebuilt trust!! He needed to remove the sand and put in rocks. So the issue is more that you still don’t trust him. I never could figure out if getting all the truth from my husband would make me feel better or not….Is that what I was looking for or did I feel that would make me feel he was being so truthful to me that I could trust him going forward. DOES REVELATION HELP REBUILD TRUST?? or HOW?? I had pushed for access to his email and phone log……..didn’t get it for over a year, but then I was upset about some phone calls to a woman I had voiced my concerns about….another argument he defended…..He divorced me because he said I was too intrusive into his private life, interrogating and investigating him….that I had said really mean things to him (he called it veral abuse)…I know when we had some of the infidelity discussions and he was dismissive or just get over it or mocking me or making sarcastic comments about his relationship with his affair partner, I could come back with a mean comment….counselor said that’s normal, not abusive although reactive instead of correct response….and that’s why he divorced me…..although I found he was lying to me about a number of things and whenever he had an “interest” or potential women stroking his ego, he would threaten divorce (especially during his drinking years….and then sober too!!)…and I’d run into my codependence abandonment dance……and he’d feel validated in pursuing the newest interest…..SO I imagine since he has a new girlfriend during our separation for divorce that something was probably brewing. Have you gone to any additional individual therapy to address this specific concern about his honesty about the affair………..I really think it’s more about feeling that if he “reveals” this to you it proves his trustworthiness” more than the details………So, something has been missing in how he didn’t rebuilt trust with you….maybe as with my husband he just expected over time it was just going to fade away……and that was enough….IT ISN’T!!! TRUST HAS TO BE REBUILT!!!
Linda, I agree with Mark and Broken2. In my case I met my W when we were 15 and 16, got married at 22 and 23; both have never been with anyone else and she had this EA for 6 months. From a man’s perspective, I would not trust me not having sex with the dream of my life (when they are in the Affair fog) that I was able to get to the same bed with me, I cannot think of any man that I know that would not do it. But regardless, for me, the deal breaker is not the PA, the deal breaker was the first time she told the OM “I love you”. We both have been mourning of what no longer is. I don’t want anything to do with this woman as much as I love her. I will only stay if she does the hard work needed to fight to build something new (the old great marriage is gone forever). If she doesn’t put up with the work, I am gone.
As I said before, I can easily see myself in your same position if I don’t ask for the changes needed now. A book that helped me a lot lately is called “too good to stay, too bad to go” – Mira Kirshenbaum; she made a big research on the biggest issues marriages have, and followed up with the people that decided to stay and the ones that decided to go, and measured the level of happiness each one had. It really helped me realize the issues we have, the responses both of us have, and how happy/ unhappy we would be if nothing changes.
All the best
Linda, I had to know EVERY. LITTLE. LAST. DETAIL. My husband gave all I wanted to know and more. What a huge mistake on my part for asking. I have such a visual mind that I had to know it ALL to eliminate all the things I was making up in my head. In return I am left with more triggers than one can imagine…
Your husband is not on board cause he just doesn’t understand how we think, at all. He hasn’t done ALL THE STEPS it takes to help YOU HEAL and wants it to just all go away cause its done and over with the OW …not knowing he hasnt done the things he needs to do to get you at a resting point becasue he just doesnt know what to do. Doug & Linda have a post on this too! It is ANOTHER POST that I RECOMMEND. Im telling you, this is a process that has to be done right or you will not ever be happy with him. For starters, he should feel your pain. I can find the post for you but you need to get the Higher Healing membership to do some damage control! You can cancel any month Im sure. Id take a week or two vacation, read it all and have a nice beautiful conversation with your husband about the LOVE you once had and how bad it needs to be restored. This website will give you all the words you need! I promise!
My husband was clueless and wanted me to just forget it ever happened and move on! Then I emailed him some of these posts to read. He caught on after awhile. His affair was physical and emotional. He worked out of town so some nights they had sex. Other nights they didn’t.
How many nights were they together??
Have you ever heard of the book called the LOVE DARE??
Ok, after reading your comment and seeing that you have been with this man for so long and this is the second woman he may have been with sexually … I’M RIGHT THERE WITH YOU! SAME SITUATION! And I believe if he did NOT have sex that is just because he couldn’t get an erection AND TO EMBARRASSED TO SAY. Was alcohol involved? What about medications?? I have talked to two male cheaters and BOTH had a hard (or not so hard) time cause they had been with their wives so long. I have been with my husband since we were 14 (28 years) I can just look at him and he gets an erection even after all these years. I had to be convinced he was telling the truth by what the other men said! And trust me HE DIDN’T WANT TO TELL ME THAT AND WHEN HE DID I DIDN’T BELIEVE HIM!!
Maybe the pain is so deep cause you haven’t had previous “scar tissue” from other past relationships. That’s what I’m dealing with.
Here is a song by MercyMe called “The Hurt & The Healer”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xzaivDbu9c&feature=related
Here are the lyrics:
Why?
The question that is never far away
The healing doesn’t come from the explained
Jesus please don’t let this go in vain
You’re all I have
All that remains
So here I am
What’s left of me
Where glory meets my suffering
I’m alive
Even though a part of me has died
You take my heart and breathe it back to life
I’ve fallen into Your arms open wide
When the hurt and the healer collide
Breathe
Sometimes I feel it’s all that I can do
Pain so deep that I can hardly move
Just keep my eyes completely fixed on You
Lord take hold and pull me through
So here I am
What’s left of me
Where glory meets my suffering
I’m alive
Even though a part of me has died
You take my heart and breathe it back to life
I’ve fallen into your arms open wide
When the hurt and the healer collide
It’s the moment when humanity
Is overcome by majesty
When grace is ushered in for good
And all our scars are understood
When mercy takes its rightful place
And all these questions fade away
When out of the weakness we must bow
And hear You say “It’s over now”
I’m alive
Even though a part of me has died
You take my heart and breathe it back to life
I’ve fallen into your arms open wide
When The hurt and the healer collide
Jesus come and break my fear
Awake my heart and take my tears
Find Your glory even here
When the hurt and the healer collide
Jesus come and break my fear
Awake my heart and take my tears
Find Your glory even here
Wake my heart and take my tears,
I had no previous relationships that would have given me any scar tissue. I had only dated 2 guys, once each before I met my husband. I met him at 16 and had just started dating. No one has ever broken my heart like he did and if I got divorced I don’t think at my age I would ever get married again. I trusted him so much and loved him. I would have bet my life on his fidelity and I was so wrong, so I would never fully trust another man again. I’m sure their are one’s out there, but I thought I had one and I didn’t.
Linda
Wake my heart and take my tears,
I am the only other W he’s been with before we got married and until the A. He’s not a flirt and had never been interested in OW. She was the flirt, was looking for a higher up man, was married with 2 children and her H had a blue color job and she was around Executives at work, like my H. I don’t know what he did in that bed, but had never even touched another woman’s breast, besides mine. He said that he did touch the top of her’s, just so he wouldn’t look like a wimp, but who knows.
Yes, he had been drinking, probably 4 drinks at least. He was 40 at the time and I wouldn’t remember if it worked with me at 40 yrs. of age, as I would be to angry to make love with him, as I don’t like him when he drinks to much. Other men can answer that question, after 4 drinks or more, do things still work at that age and you add nerves to it, I don’t think it would. Maybe
We have been together since 16, got married at 18 and had sex then. I was his second and really first girlfriend and he can still get one now, with hardly doing anything. It doesn’t stop me from thinking that as a man in bed with a new woman for the first time, that even with drinking, that it wouldn’t work some? I don’t know if being a top executive where they worked and she was a secretary, that she might not have made a lot of moves on him.
I just don’t believe any of it. I saw her flirt with him at the bowling alley, her home and at the bar, where they both invited their respective spouses for drinks, can you believe it?
Oh, he wasn’t on any medication, forgot that.We had been married 22 yrs. when this started, so I still don’t know what to believe. I want him to take another lie detector test from a more qualified expert, not the cheap one he insisted we use because of the money. Until he decides to do that, I’m in the other room and we pretty much live separate lives. I won’t stay this way to long. I’ll rent an apartment first if it starts getting to uncomfortable.
Thanks for your helpful input. I just wish I really knew and I think he is cruel for not being honest to me.
Linda
Linda….Until you know the truth and have all of the questions you need answered….answered then you will not be able to move forward and heal from this. It doesn’t matter if it was yesterday or 20 years ago. There must be full disclosure to heal. That means diferent things to different people. Healing Mark didn’t want to know the details but I did…every last one of them. Maybe its a girl thing. My husband from day one attempted to answer my questions and like Healing Mark I caught him in some lies and half truths for what he says was an attempt to not hurt me.At the beginning of disclosure he couldnt remember some of what he said 2 years ago but I kept a journal and I wrote it all down so I quickly put an end to that nonsense. Eventually I believe the half truths became truths as he soon realized I wasn’t going to be satisfird with anything less then everything. The pieces had to fit together for me to move forward. You ask if it would be better to not have known and what proof there is to the stories. In my case my husband would have never changed his behavior had I never have known. He had to change or lose me and I am glad that at least now my life isnt one big lie. That gives me some control over my life. I don’t think any of us will ever have solid proof that what we have been told and if going forward the truth will always be there. Its a kind of blind faith that needs to return…I guess its called trust and thats hard to get back. The only proof I guess I had was that I believed him, the emails stopped, the text messages stopped, and except for her attempts to contact him the phone calls stopped. I have no choice but to trust that there is no contact at work because I am not there and I can never look at his work computer because he works for a bank and there are layers of security on it that I can never crack, If you could get the answers you need and you must….maybe solid proof wouldnt be an issue. If I thought my husband was still cheatin then we couldnt go on from here and if he hadnt told me about his behavior then we couldnt have gone forward, He also had done some things 20 some years ago that tied all of this together and we explore those issues as well…he remembered everything so dont believe that excuse. He needs to talk to you….without that….you will never heal.
Linda I know you probably want to hear it from a mans perspective and this is proabaly not what you want to hear but I dont believe for one second that your husband slept in the same bed with another woman and didnt have sex with her. I think you know in your heart the answer to that allready. I asked my husband what he thought of your comment and he said your husband is lying.
Broken2
I hear you and no it’s not what I want to hear, but I know if I had been having an A and going through that much lie and deceit that I would have had sex. Of course, I can say without any doubt, I couldn’t have an A and live with myself, but that’s just me. I am not judging anyone else.
Did you explain that we had only been with each other and were married at 18? Would he have been uncomfortable under those circumstances with the 2nd. woman he had ever slept with? My take on the whole thing is he wanted to, but wasn’t able to perform and that’s why he didn’t have sex. The lie detector test, two of them, broke it down to individual parts and I won’t go into them here, but it would tell you that from the parts that they asked about and he passed that, he couldn’t have had sex. The question about penetration with so many things, he passed, but their still showed deception over something. The question in regards to if he was able to have sex with her showed deception on the 2nd. lie detector test, that’s why I believe he wasn’t able to, not that he didn’t want to. If I honestly knew it in my heart, I wouldn’t have stayed with him these past 25 yrs. I just had to put it to rest and then due to circumstances I’ve explained, it’s all come back to me. The emotional part and betrayal now has come back full force and the thought of him doing that to me hurts more now than ever. I guess because I look back on our last 25 yrs. and see that he didn’t become a better person till the past 9 months. But he still doesn’t want to go into detail with any questions about what happened and stands by his story. Anyway, thank’s for the input, not sure where this is going to end. I have to go and be with my Uncle who is having surgery this morning, so don’t think I’m ignoring your response’s.
Thank you, Linda
Linda all he said was being a man if he had taken the affair to that level and had been in bed with another woman he would have had sex with her and if the same problem you explain occurred with him he said there are many other ways to have sex. Your husband owes you the truth lie detector test or not and those vague areas within the test must be explained. I cant give you the answers to all of your questions and make it all go away…I wish I could. The fact is he cheated….he refuses to give you the one thing you need to heal and that is disclosure. He continues to lie to you by saying he doesnt remember. You deserve MUCH better. It doesnt matter what age you got married ….cheating is cheating. I was 14 years old when I met my husband….he still cheated on me and lied to me. There is no excuse for what he did. There is no excuse for what your husband did and IS STILL DOING…..he is lying. He may have begun a change in the last 9 months and thats a good thing but the change is on his terms and at this point he has no terms….its about you or lose you. Your mind will run wild…out of control and you wont be able to shut it off until you can fill it with truth. Haven’t you put up with this long enough? He OWES you the truth.
Did I miss part of the discussion? What has made your husband suddenly change in the last 9 months after 25 years of living the same way…..and your anguish about the affair. What is it in his change that actually is making you uneasy after the last 25 years. I know where you were 25 years ago……..just like all of us….We want to be in denial about what happened because facing that truth we don’t know if we can deal with the pain. We have already had so much pain we hardly thought we could live through, that one more thing is almost unbearable….thinking about your husband lying to you for the last 25 years is what is killing you. We all know that if they are in bed together, they will make a pretty good attempt at sex. My husband told me that even though he was excited about it….it made him alittle sick to his stomach about going through with it….THAT may have been a lie….I want to believe there was some conscience….didn’t stop him though…and sure he said it was terrible because she was drunk…relapsing AA newcomer, but he was “in love” with her and she was an AMAZING PERSON….that all changed as he came off his high and out of the fog…..Or maybe just to minimize the pain from everything he said about her….she was suddenly “pig face”…..(she did kinda have a nose like a pig….bad me)… I went to one counselor that told me that he doesn’t recommend people talk about the details…and I told him some of the details my husband told me made me feel better about the faults in the relationship….vs. it all good. He then told me…….HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT WAS THE TRUTH EITHER?? Well, that shattered the bubble….but it’s true. I will never know….And that is hard when they are lying
suzie suffers,
I answered your question as soon as possible, a lot going on and have been sick.To answer your question, I’ll write it as short as possible.
Last Christmas night, with the whole family here, including my 91 yr. old Dad, who we flew in for our total family get together. My H had drank to much the weekend before with Dad here and I wasn’t happy, drove home from our daughter’s house. Christmas day, at our daughter’s house for Christmas, everyone there, he drank again all day. We proceeded to a good friends house for desert and I noticed for the first time, that he was drinking a lot and no one else was. He was acting his normal, overly friendly self, so I took the wine away, quietly and we were going home anyway. I drove, we got home and he started arguing with my Dad right there about things that we needed to do for the next day. He couldn’t talk as well, but it was his arguing in front of my Dad that made me so mad and I told him just to go to bed. The next day, he didn’t feel well, which was a first for him in a very long time. That was the last day he drank, 9 months ago. That’s been the main change, along with his control over everything in the house, heat, air, just totally control and attitude. He’s made a conscious effort to be a better person and try and save our marriage. All that is good, as long as I don’t mention wanting to know anything about the A.
About 3 or 4 yrs. ago, when the stock market dropped and we lost 1/2 of his retirement, he lost it. Our daughter owed us $10,000 and wasn’t paying it back like she promised and we had to do it for the grandchildren. He was so angry, as we had to do it before and he doesn’t like it when someone owes him money and then threatened to cut her family off from us, if we were going to keep bugging her about the money. She told us that she had payed us back before and would again, it just couldn’t be now. He and I fought about this a lot, I got tired of his anger, it didn’t do any good and their was nothing we could do about it, except take it out of her inheritance. Then he stopped loving me but every 3 or 4 months, wasn’t overly romantic at all. He was getting his showers to go to the gym and fix his hair, so I got suspicious of another A, which he wasn’t doing. The romantic thing and not making love really got to me, as it brought back how I had to try extra hard to get his interest during his 3 or 4 yr. A, but I thought it was due to his job. I also had a lot of back pain from 5 slip & falls during the past 10 yrs., none were my fault. I was an athlete for 35 yrs. and had never fell on the court. He didn’t deal with this very well, got angry at me because of it, no emotional support, so then I started questioning, “Why did I stay with the man for the 25 yrs. after the A, Forgive him, love him, put up with his drinking to much and control and most of all, forgive him for an A that was something I said that I would never do.
I started getting suspicious about his behavior and got the love letter’s and questions and notes that I wrote down from our meetings 25 yrs. ago and looked at them. I hadn’t did that in 20 yrs. and kept them in case we got a divorce as I was advised to do. So, I started evaluating my whole life. I’m now 68, husband not being very loving and desiring me and I hadn’t changed. I had forgiven an A, which was the one deal breaker in our marriage, but I stayed, even though their were, I felt still some lies. I decided to move on with our life and forgive.
I dealt with my pain well, as it was off and on and didn’t complain to him about it.
So yes, now I am thinking of the past 25 yr.’s and wondering if he lied to me all the time, especially about the sex. I, like you said, was in so much pain for so many years I couldn’t look at the total picture, that he had betrayed me and been in bed with another woman and had an A for 3 or more years. I am so angry as it’s all coming back to me, as I feel that I denied it for so many years, enjoying the grandchildren, etc. So you hit the nail on the head, it’s the not knowing that is killing me inside and like your counselor told you, “How do you know that he isn’t lying?” So, knowing that, isn’t it hard for you to make love to your H? I can’t imagine it and yet, I could have been doing it for the past 25 yrs. My H is such a good liar, if he can look at a priest directly in the eye, he can lie about anything. I hope this explains it to you. I’m not sure where this will end and I wish you the best also.
Blessings, Linda
Broken 2,
I hear you and I agree he needs to take another lie detector test from a very good examiner. Things just don’t add up. I look at it this way, like your H said. If I’m going through all that trouble, I would have been jumping in that bed right away. If you have feelings for that person and he did, he wouldn’t have been able to help himself and one thing would have lead to another. Maybe it wouldn’t work after drinking, nerves, never being with anyone else. If it didn’t work, he could have been so embarrassed, he sure wouldn’t have tried again the next night, I don’t think.
Yes, he cheated, which makes me still angry all over again. He owes me the lie detector test and he could remember but I think he know’s he’s lying and then gets upset and wants to quit talking about it. He thinks it’s all going away, but it’s not. I won’t give up and if he won’t cooperate, I’ll find an apartment. Maybe that will wake him up. I still think he stopped drinking, not for me, but because he was concerned about his blood hormone levels. So, see he still lies by not telling the total truth.
Thanks for your help,
Linda
To all the above you answered my question in regards to staying with my CH if I couldn’t prove that he had sex with the OW, I’ll have to answer later today. I’ve been at the hospital all day with my sick 85 yr. old Uncle, who had blood clots and surgery and have to get up at 7:30 for a doctor’s appointment. I really appreciate everyone taking time to respond and I’ll get back with all of you.
Thanks so much, Sad & Mixed Up, Linda
Linda,
Hope your Uncle is better today. I know how you feel with the never-ending struggle of needing to know the truth. I am in the same boat. My H insists that yes it was well on its way to a PA but has also sworn up and down that it never had a chance to progress to that point. I became suspicious when a text intended for her went to my daughter. He claimed it was for me but it didn’t make sense. I of course bought it for the time being since the thought of him going down that path was inconceivable to me and very uncharacteristic of him. (He was never a flirter) Anyway, He changed his plans (which were to travel together for work) when I questioned him. He took a male co-worker with him instead and claimed weeks later on Dday that he ended it then and there with her. All it took to snap him out of his fantasy sexting party with her was to have our daughter see that text! (My daughter, by-the-way, bought the story since my H and I have always been very lovey dovey). But I know there were several times they traveled together months earlier and he says it was not at the point then of sexting. There was just a strong friendship still (pushing boundries friendship aka EA) but no talk of testing the PA arena yet. Anyway I too have no proof of a PA either way and it truly dominates my thoughts daily. But like you, I am needing to have full disclosure before I can understand and move past it. However at the same time I am somewhat scared that if I force the truth out of him (assuming the truth is a PA) I am afraid of the possibility that I can’t get past it. I do love him very much still but am so angry and hurt by it all.I know a few people have already advised that I let it go but that is so difficult for me. My H is back to his former self and is incredibly attentive, remorseful and embarrassed by his weakness to her advances and flattery.
So I guess I stayed married because I do still love him but I have so much still to work through and can’t deny that some days I think seriously about separating. Not because he doesn’t love me and want to work through this but more because I have so much emotional baggage now that I wonder if I’ll ever feel the same about him and be able to let go of the anger toward him.
To Josie30, & all others who have wrote to me,
I hear you Josie, I’m sorry you are going through this and everyone else. I will respond tomorrow. I know I promised today, bur I am exhausted from being at the hospital, emotionally and physically. He is doing a lot better now, got the main blood clot, so he is better. I am just so tired, I took a 3 hr. nap this afternoon and still worn out. This emotional stress is taking its toll on me. I do sleep in my own room and won’t go back until I get some answers that I can believe. So until tomorrow, thanks to all of you who have written me.
Blessings, Linda
Hello all…I just want to thank everyone here for all the support. Through all of our pain and sadness, we found each other…not the group we would have ever chosen but here we are.
Today is my one year “Antiversary”….hard to believe I’ve survived one year after finding that facebook message that changed everything I thought was my (then) 29 year marriage! Anyway…my H and I recognize we are a.”work in progress” , and doing better. Thank you all for your continued support!
csb,
I wasn’t here to know the whole story, but I am sad that you are here, or have to be on this site. The sadness of this day must be hard for you. I remember mine very well and 25 yrs. later, probably have only let that day slip by maybe 3 times, just because I didn’t know what the date actually was. I know your a work in progress, it takes a long time and a yr. isn’t nearly enough or it sure wasn’t for me. Not knowing the whole truth, which I am now finding out is so hard, so I hope that you know all that you need to know to heal. I would never want you to be where I am now.
Take care,
Linda