The idea for this week’s discussion unfortunately came from one of the persons that Linda has been mentoring for the last several months.

It had appeared that this person and her cheating spouse were on their way to working things out and rebuilding their relationship after his infidelity that occurred a couple of years back.  He had maintained that there had been no contact with the other woman and he had appeared to be wanting to save the marriage.

Well as you can probably guess by now, somehow she discovered that there had been contact, and in fact, it looks as though he never ended contact with the other woman.  He had been lying all along.  Naturally, she is devastated.

Linda and I received a few emails from her which resulted in a brief phone discussion where Linda asked me “How does anyone really know if contact has ended and the affair is over?”

We  both agreed that the signs are all in the cheating spouse’s actions.  They can say anything they want, but there probably are some clues in the way the cheater is acting towards you and in how they go about their every day activities that would indicate whether or not they have ended things.

So…

How can you be sure that there is no contact and the affair is over? 

Are the cheating spouse’s actions sufficient enough to clue you in?

Is the betrayed spouse destined to a life of wondering and being afraid that something is still going on?

Please share any experiences or thoughts you might have in the comment section.

See also  Open 'Mic' Discussion #18

Thanks!

Linda & Doug

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LINESPACE

    51 replies to "Discussion – How Do You Really Know if the Affair is Over?"

    • Kelly

      I am in the same boat. I found out last week that my SO had resumed contact with an affair partner. She was a co worker, so he was able to contact her through his company email. He tells me that it lasted just a short time, but I don’t believe him. This would make the third affair partner that he has contacted or tried to contact since our first D-Day. Thinking back, I should have realized that he wasn’t putting nearly as much effort into repairing our relationship as I was.
      I found out in April of 09 about multiple emotional affairs. He was sincere in his remorse for hurting me, but not sincere in efforts to help me. I would tell him that I needed for him to read some of the books I thought would be helpful, that I needed his reassurance, needed for him to talk to me about his affairs or just about our relationship without me asking. He just wouldn’t follow through. When I would ask him why he hadn’t followed through with his promises, he would tell me that we had too many other things to concentrate on right now. He continued to lie to me and when I would catch him in a lie, he would get very angry and confrontational, trying to make me feel bad for not trusting him. He just wanted me to move past this and get our lives back to normal.
      Once again, looking back, I feel like such a fool for not recognizing the signs. I wanted so badly to work this out, and tried so hard that I didn’t see what was right in front of me.

      • MadMD

        If he’s really remorseful, he’d do anything, and I mean anything to help you recover. My wife cut off all contact, deleted all email addresses she had and even arranged our counseling. She made me trust her so much more than I would have without her clear work to restore our relationship. Explain to him that you really need the help restoring your trust in him. It just doesn’t sound to me that he really understands how tough this is for us to get past.

    • Dol

      Something just happened that draws attention to how hard this is. I completely trusted my partner before this: it never occurred to me not to, our trust was – apparently – so innocently solid. And actually, that fact is getting me through now, because I do believe we have a foundation to build on. Trust-wise, I feel like a coastline hit by an oilslick: an ecosystem that will never completely recover, but over time will re-establish itself.

      So, we do have transparency and honesty, and I do believe that to be genuine. We have our rules: she can have no contact, and any contact that does occur, she must show me.

      So: just now – he’s emailed her at work, again, after what should have been final contact. I kind of suspect he’s not quite ready to stop yet. I think they’ll bump into each other at work, and he’ll follow up with an email. My partner’s done what she said she would: forwarded to me.

      Yet… she’s then gone to a talk at work. And this is the hard part. I now have a new, well-fed paranoia monster that I didn’t have before. It’s almost completely irrational. If she’s at home, and is checking her phone, it thumps me in the stomach to get my attention. That makes no rational sense – she’s just been at work all day! Either our written agreement on transparency works or it doesn’t. If it does, these feelings at home make no sense.

      And the paranoia monster is saying: a talk? Just after that email? Really? Intellectually, I know (think I know) she is being completely honest with me. I don’t want to be the kind of person who’s dominated by paranoid thoughts.

      But the problem here is stark: I honestly don’t think there could be a better foundation for dealing with this than we have. Our relationship has been amazing – up to now. But even then, even though I can believe I trust her to be honest with me, I have to deal with the fact that some part of me can’t quite manage it.

      So there are two separate problems: whether our partners can, actually, be trusted, and whether we are able to learn to control our worst paranoid impulses. I feel lucky in that I can clearly see the line between those two. I’ve read many heartbreaking comments here of other betrayed spouses having to deal with situations where lack of trust is an ongoing problem: I cannot imagine the struggle that must be. I don’t think I’d have the strength.

      • D

        I went through a similar process (and have a similar relationship.) DDay was January 16, but final contact was in April. During those months she wouldn’t always say if he contacted her or vice-versa. Unfortunately, there is withdrawal and feeling of obligation to the other (but not to us, oddly.) They need closure and it takes time for them to understand that there is no such thing. There’s NO CONTACT and that is the only thing that works. Addicts have AA, but there is no group out there in which to confess or find solace, so the cheaters perpetually turn to one another “just to make sure he’s/she’s alright.”

        I confronted the guy and believed him when he said he wanted to end things. He actually did but was such a coward he couldn’t, not for awhile. They never got back together, but as far as I was concerned I didn’t even want him to say Boo to her.

        What I wish I had told him was this:

        “As a man I’m going to expect you to cease all contact. That means rejecting all contact she initiates as well. Every time contact is made I will come visit you at your place of business and explain to you in ever-increasing tones in front of your co-workers and friends that your time with my wife is over.”

        That would have been satisfying, I have to admit.

      • MadMD

        Man, I know how you all feel! After finding out about my wife’s online emotional affair, I was devastated. After getting past that, I try hard not to let on, but the paranoia is torture for me. Every form of communication outside our home makes me worry she’s still having contact, just doing a better job of hiding it from me. She doesn’t know that I suffer like this. I don’t think the trust can ever really be restored fully, but then my D-day was only two months ago. Is it really possible to restore complete trust? I just don’t think so.

        • Notoverit

          It will never be the innocent trust you had before. I am firmly of that belief. You can trust her with a proviso: don’t do something you’ll regret. Hope you find your trust!

    • Norwegian woman

      Wow, Kelly. After two years of playing the husband that is willing to do what it takes to make it up to you?? It sends chills down my spine.
      We are also almost two years out of D-day 1 and about 1 year and 2 months out of d-day 2. D-day two was about him keeping in contact with a mistress he had BEFORE the one I discovered d-day 1.
      I have no doubt that he isn`t in contact with his mistress from three years ago. Me and her husband made a living HELL for them, and put them up against each other, so I am quite sure that they hate each other.
      The one I discovered d-day one (had been going on for about 2-3 months) I had a sneaking suspicion that he had contact with after d-day. For two reasons. He had maintained contact with the first one (even though it was over and he couldn`t “care less” about her…. yeah right). The other reason was that he had nice things to say about the second one, months after d-day – even though I talked a lot about what kind of woman this was (moving all around the country for men, being dumped again and again, sneaking around with another womans husband, lying about her work – she told him she worked in a home for elderly people because she cared so much for elderly people – she forgot to tell that she worked as a kitchen assistant….. ) Many months after d-day he actually said to me that she was a person that cared a lot about other people. I exploded. After that it was silent. He insisted on that they have had no contact since d-day. A couple of months ago, he admitted that he had called her about 14 days later (to make sure she didn`t make contact with him…. yeah right) But since THAT time, he have had no contact with her…..
      She is blocked from his facebook account, but I can see her page. Of course, she have been kicked out from the guy she was with after the affair with my husband. And she have moved once again because she met another man only weeks after the first one kicked her out.
      Last week, I told him that she had moved again, beause of another “love”, and we laughed about how stupid she was and made jokes about how long this one would last.
      A couple of days later, I was blocked by her……. It was almost as if she knew that I was keeping my eye on her…. Why block me, two years after the affair? Why not block me straight away?
      I thought about asking my husband if he was still in contact with her, but I didn`t. Of course he will say no….
      After reading this, I think I will ask him after all…… Even though he will deny, I will make him know that I am on watch….

    • Elizabeth

      i suppose you cant really know for sure,because its a game to them,and they seem to think if they are smarter this time around they can pull the wool over our eyes again.They prob think they are still not doing anything wrong.I dont know if my stupid partner will do this again in the future,but what he does know is that he has no more chances,and he knows i mean it.I will trust my instinct and i will never forget.

    • jenn

      I think this is why I have a constant heavy feeling in my heart. I. like Kelly, expected my husband to bend over backwards to help me heal from what he did. It’s been 1 year and 4 months since the last DDay. He has made progress, but I don’t feel like he’s completely there for me or on my side. too much has happened during this time, and I’ve commented to him a couple of times that I still don’t know that he’s not NOT involved with someone else. Even though it would be harder for him now.
      If he had been attentive, consistent, loving, tender, compassionate, and patient during this entire time, I believe I would feel differently now. If he had strived to make me know that I am the only woman he loves, that he cherishes me and that he is my protector and defender when others (especially his family) bash me, things would be different.
      Maybe someone can help me with this question. He fought with me over what I said about his AP, defended her to the Nth degree when I told him they were both wrong to try and destroy 2 families, along with a female coworker he took to a birthday lunch during his affair–he fought me because I called the coworker when I found out (he told me I “Ruined her birthday and would be apologizing to her”–never did, just told her I would not expect any more future birthday lunches to occur between them).
      Yet, when his brother bashed me, treated me horribly, and told my husband that he didn’t think he did anything wrong, my husband won’t give me the same kind of defense. Why?

      I am afraid of this topic–I do feel like if I left him, the pain would dissipate. When we were separated, I remember feeling peace, and all the memories make me feel weak that I am still with him. I’m not happy with the way his family helped him during the affair also. The holidays are very difficult for me now, because I have to smile and be ‘the good girl’ for the sake of my precious daughters. I want them to grow up in a happy family, not a mess like I grew up.
      Maybe it’s stubbornness, I don’t know. I’m just tired of not having complete happiness, and I’m afraid I will never again feel for him to way I did before his affair. He just treated me so badly, it’s hard to forget.

      • MadMD

        Jen, I’m praying for u! Thank God my wife did it all right… The things you wish your husband would do. We looked to the “What Ever It Takes” videos and are going through the Bible study that goes along with the movie, “Fireproof”. It’s been a huge marriage rebuilding time. I can’t say I’m over it yet, but since D-Day 2 mo ago, we’ve come a long way. See if he’s willing to go through something like that to grow your marriage.

    • kelly

      I think my gut was right all along, I just lost the ability to trust it. The first time he cheated on me, he had no idea how badly it would hurt me and how much damage it would cause to our relationship. This time around he knew.

    • Broken

      You can never be sure that they have not been in contact with the OW. I think about this on a daily basis. It is because I just cant go through it again. CS are master manipulaters and great at lying. We are all in this situation because they hid the affair from us. Of course they can do it again and be smarter about it for the experience. I think as BS spouses we will always wonder if they are talking to each other, if it will happen again etc. Just need to decide if you can live with all of this.

      By the way my husbands OW called him 2 months ago and he hid it from me then she called again when I was there…busted. I must have asked him 3 times a week if he had heard from her and the answer was no. When she called his first words were”why are you calling me I haven’t heard from you in over a year” …he had heard from her a few weeks before and it was so easy for him to lie. Of course NOW its “different” …if she calls again he will tell me immediately….yea right.

      I am sick of it totally and I am sorry to say have little feelings left for my husband. I guess I am good at lying too because I look at him and say I love you and mean I hate you.

    • Lynne

      I don’t say this to stand in judgment of the above comments regarding CS that have reoffended and continued post D-day deceit, but I am truly mystified as to why anyone would stay in a relationship where their H or W would continue these behaviors. I understand all the reasons people consider staying–children, long histories together, love etc…..yet at what point do you choose to save yourself?

      We can’t make anyone do anything, change them, demand that they do it our way, change their email passwords and write text and emails for them, monitor their every move–this is no way to live for the BS or the CS! While I am a big believer that most often everyone deserves another chance to make things right again, how many chances do they get before it becomes apparent that this is who they really are (for what ever reason that is), and that enough is truly enough. If they know how much they’ve hurt you, yet they return to the scene of the crime, isn’t this as telling as it gets?

      In my own situation, we have had one D-day, but I am absolutely confident that if there is another, I will know all that I need to know about my H, and I will leave immediately……no further conversation, no beating him up about it, as I would know that he is not capable of a full commitment to me. I have never felt that I was less than the OW, or that it was any reflection on me as a partner. I have felt that this was really a reflection of his character, his need to be admired and to have some extra excitement. Should he choose that road again, then he is clearly communicating his chose in the matter. My job isn’t to keep it from happening again, but to pay attention to any signs that he is back in that saddle!

      My best wishes and prayers to all of you. Stand strong and take care of you!

      • ifeelsodumb

        Lynne,
        Ditto everything you said! NO relationship is worth this pain…My boys and I will be fine, if it ever comes to that! I hope and pray it never does, but I refuse to be married to a serial cheat and liar!

    • whirling

      Maybe it’s too soon for me, but I find myself questioning so much now. My worry is that he apologized for hurting me but doesn’t think he did anything wrong………..

      • MadMD

        I’m not sure the worry ever really goes away 100%, but the cs can do a lot to help restore trust. Getting them to understand just exactly how much we need them to go the extra miles to restore our relationship with them is the hardest part. It wasn’t until I told my wife that she could keep her “friend”, but that I wanted a divorce and her out of the house by morning, did she suddenly realize just how strongly I felt about their “friendship”. She immediately cut off all contact and started taking steps at restoration. To her the relationship was just close friendship, but to me the level of intimacy in the emails I discovered was pure inidelity, and thank God I discovered them before a sexual relationship started!

      • melissa

        Whirling, I think your H is going through his paces. My H apologised, but in the same breath, said he’d done nothing wrong. He kept that tack for months and months and months and I think it’s only now, over two years down the line, that he realises how close he’s been to losing me and why. Of course, he won’t say but it’s worth looking at your H’s behaviour rather than waiting for his words (I’d dearly want to HEAR my H say the words I so want to hear but it’s not happening, however, his behaviour seems to be a lot more loving, attentive and ‘present in the marriage’. This said, as others have written here, you never know whether your trust can be freely given. I know I will never feel that 100%, solid trust I felt before.

    • Norwegian woman

      Lynne.
      You ask valid questions. Beeing a woman that has gone through two d-days, I really know that there will never be a third d-day. I have given him all the chances and then some.
      I have come to the realiation that I can not do anything. If he chooses to continue, he will. Of course, I am hyper sensitive to things he does/says, but i can not prevent him from lying to me, being smarter, appearing super loving as a cover for what he does when I am not there.
      All I can do is wait. And i DO wait. With all that has happened, and the continued lying to me, I have come to realize that this may be just the way he is.
      But IF he is just decieving me, he will sooner or later screw up. In the meantime, I will take what I can get.
      He has often told me “do you really think that I will put myself in a situation and go through all this again?”. I have told him, he doesn`t have to, because the moment I discover a lie, a contact, ANYTHING, I will be gone. He then has made his choice and I will make mine. And there won`t be anything more to talk or argue about.
      Despite the hell i have gone through. I have used the time to build myself up also. Putting the blame where it belongs. Know that I am a better person, with more integrity, more backbone than he will ever have.
      I love him deeply, but I now love me even more. I now know that I will never accept anything like that again. And I know that I am strong enough and gone through so much thinking and reflecting, that if he screws up, I will be out the door. And I will have the knowledge that I did EVERYTHING I could and there are no more stones to turn.

    • Paula

      Funnily enough, our counsellor told me on Tuesday that he, who is normally pretty onto these guys, sorry, usually guys, was completely taken in once, by a rich guy who was making all the right noises, for more than a year in counselling, and it turned out he had the mistress waiting in a restaurant downtown after every session. Don’t feel bad if you’ve been duped, it seems to happen to the best of us. Good luck all who have this situation, I don’t think I could give too many chances (actually not even one, sorry!) but I wish you all much love

    • Paula

      OH, and Lynne, I agree with you, for me, but we are all different. For me personally, I will not do another Dday, I’m strong, gorgeous, clever, loving and worth so much more, and I just won’t bear that much pain ever again. (The old fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.)

      I think the only book I really have much time for is Peggy Vaughan’s The Monogamy Myth, in which she says that we cannot expect/believe a “monogamy promise” – just an honesty one, including honesty about attractions, etc. I believe that is so very true. My OH won’t even tell white lies anymore, it’s been very obvious since Dday that the lies are not something he ever wants to repeat. That much I know, and that much I believe, as he has shown this in all walks of life for two and a half years, there are no more lies in his life.

    • Elizabeth

      I was told by my stupid partner he saw the NRW again but only from a distance and that he stayed away,and he said if it helps she looks heavy pregnant,i said i was pleased for her as she finally got what she wanted.Now i feel bitter,because i am thinking that the pair of them “had there cake and ate it” 1st because thats what brought her to him,the fact that she was having trouble having children and 2nd is He did what he did.Now i think that they are both so pleased with them self and feeling smug( no harm done so to speak both have come out on top) Great for them! they can move on,and what they did to me can be forgotten because it didnt matter that they turned my life upside down and destroyed the person that i was.

    • kelly

      I havent made any decision yet. I want to be a bit more rational and a bit less emotional before I do. I havent put him out yet. He is truly as broken down as I am. He did make a confession this time, although I was on the verge of finding out on my own. He has told me about previous lies and has made an appointment to see a psychiatrist. He has been reading this website and has posted on it as well. I have asked myself the same questions as Lynne and would feel exactly the same way if I were on the outside looking in. I dont feel like I want to do anymore of the hard work it takes to repair our relationship. I’ve done it for so long and it didnt make a difference. He tells me 100% of the work is up to him now, and he is right. I just need some time to get a clear head and make the right decision for me. I am very thankful for this website. It’s nice to hear from others who know how I feel.

    • Katara

      I have been through a lot these past few months, I found out that my husband had kissed a woman a while back, and just recently started a flame with a female co-worker. At first I was embarassed because she is prettier than me, and over the years I’ve gained weight and I probably don’t look the same anymore, but I felt he could at leat just try to be stronger and give us a chance but everyone is different about how they do things. I do know that however I DON’T DESERVE TO FEEL THIS WAY ANYMORE! I deserve better than this and I want better than this….I do know however that this is the last straw, and if it happens again I’m leaving, he can have her and loose me. I finally know now that history with a person does not mean shit to the CS and that my feelings didn’t mean shit to him either! I just found out after a few months that he had contacted her on facebook, she sent me a message telling me that he had contacted her and I felt like a damn fool! She has been telling me everything they talk about, and she forwarded me texts that they had sent to each other. She told me no matter what he tells you, he will never leave her alone and that I’m going toexscuse my language but “a goddamn fool if you believe him, because he said he don’t love you anymore he loves me and is trying to find a way to break it to you” I felt so low. But as usual every time I ask him about it he swears she is lying and that he does love me, but then I have to go back to the fact that he lied to me about contact with her so why won’t he lie about this? I’m tired of this, if its gonna be over I want it to be over, and if this is what he wants just be a man about it and let me go so I can be happy! I do love him a lot but I love myself too and I deserve to be treated right, despite my short comings and despite my flaws….everyone deserves to be loved faithfully and truly. Plus there are too many diseases out there and I don’t want them, my mom died of AIDS and I saw what it can do….I don’t want that for me or anyone for that mattter. I don’t want to be one of those women on Dr. Phil, crying and dying at the same time cause her husband couldn’t keep his friend in his pants! He said none of the contacts were sexual but I’m terrified that he’s lying, mainly cause the girl at his job has herpes and she admitted she did. God knows what else she has, she can’t keep a boyfriend and she sleeps with anyone…I thought my husband had better standards but maybe he does’nt?

    • Katara

      The smile on the avatar is so far from my true expression, I just don’t know how to change it yet?

      • Jackie

        The smile on the avatar will some day be truly yours. Believe in it. Keep working on yourself. You will come to a place in time when that smile will once again return.

        • Katara

          Thx jackie I really need the support…truthfully I’m only 28yrs old and we had been together since I was 19. I have isolated myself so bad that I lost my best friend of 20 yrs, now I’m alone and have noone to talk with. My grandma is there but I really don’t need her kind of support right now. I’m confused and scared to death that I lost respect for myself, I don’t know what to do..I’m truly at a loss for words and I am at a point to where I don’t care anymore. I go through each day in limbo, I feel like all I do now is exist…life for me right now is just a big joke…can I find happiness again? Can I feel alive again…can I get back the respect for myself that was taken from me? Will I move on…or will I be scarred forever? I just hope something comes to a solution soon…I hope I get relief soon. Because right now I really feel like giving up on life…I hate feeling alone like this. Maybe this is the best feeling for me right now…maybe I need to be at my lowest point in life, so then I can build myself up again. I ask that all of you please give me as much support as you feel I need, because I feel like I need it….I’m one step from giving up on life and everything that come with it!

          • Anita

            Katara,
            I just been reading your blog, I want to say you have been through a lot for a young woman your age. I also lost both my parents at a young age myself, and I divorced a few years ago.
            I don’t have any advice for your marriage. But I want to offer you some words of encourgement. These hard times that you are going through will make you a stronger woman. I once had a woman who I worked with, tell me the same thing, and its true. Please do not let your husbands inappropriate behavior control how you feel about yourself. His behavior belongs to him. Its has nothing to do with you. You are wonderful just the way you are. He is the one with the issues, he needs to behave like a married man.
            If he doesn’t, it is no reflection on you. He has to be the one who changes his behavior, and needs to treat you better.
            Its unfortunate, but no one can make him do this.
            What you can do for yourself, is find things that you like to do, that interest you. Perhaps taking a class, or some activity
            that gets you out of the house for a few hours.
            One thing I preached to my own children, was always to make sure that they had enough education, so they are able to support themselves, and they do.
            I do not know your level of education or job that you have, but no matter what happens in your marriage, this is something that will always be helpful.
            The more independence you develop, the less fears you will
            have.
            Prayer is also very helpful, in good times and bad.
            I know I am sounding like a mother here, and I’m sorry.
            I have a daughter that is just a few months younger than you. She’s my one child, that says she’s never getting married or having children, she’s focused on her career.
            My 2 other children have given me my grandchildren.
            Katara, you are young yet, and no matter what happens in your marriage, there is so many opportunites this day and age if you want to do them. Even on your computer you now can take classes. I wish the very best for you!

          • ifeelsodumb

            Katara,
            Please don’t give up on yourself! You ARE a special person, and there ARE people who care about you, even if you think there aren’t! We have all felt what you are feeling! That’s the terrible thing about EA’s…once you find out, you feel like the joy has been sucked right out of you!
            But trust me, you WILL feel better!! It just takes time! But now you have to concentrate on YOU!! Your H is a big boy, and he has to make his choices, you can’t make him give her up! If he is treating you this way, spending time at HER house and leaving you alone…well, that’s just wrong!
            If I were in your shoes, then I’d stay right where I am, in MY home…and I’d live MY life…I’d come and go as I please, sleep when I want, eat when I want…and you know what, you mentioned that you’d put on a little weight? Well, honey, I’d be out pounding the pavement, getting in shape and showing him you are taking care of yourself!! Don’t yell at him, don’t throw questions at him, just treat him nice, be calm, let him wonder about the NEW you!!
            It’s hard, I know…but it will show him that you are gonna be ok…plus, he can’t compare you to her, you the screaming mad woman…her the sweet, smiling OW….
            Hope this helps you…also…try to get into counseling for yourself…if you call different churches in your area, a lot of times they offer free counseling….take care!

          • Notoverit

            Never, ever give up on YOURSELF! If you truly want out of the marriage, then don’t do it until you are ready. Work on losing the weight and making yourself feel good about yourself. Plan what you want to do if you are going to leave. And I mean plan financially. Don’t just walk out of the house with nothing. You have to have some way to live. And decide what you want to do. Possibly go back to school or find a new job that you are interested in. Something that means something to you.

            At 29 you have so very much to live for! Heck, you can create a whole new life for yourself if you want to! Step back from all this mess and really evaluate what you want. I found it helpful to make lists – pros and cons of things I wanted. It seems to help to have it on paper. The first step for you is to get some medical help. Sounds like you are depressed and might need something to help you through this. If you don’t have a therapist or psychologist, go to your family doctor and explain you are depressed. Just something to help you get through all this turmoil. Doing something stupid is simply not the answer – you will have a happy life again! Nothing is that hopeless. We are all here for you.

    • Tryingtounderstand

      I had taken sometime away from this blog so i could ‘find’ myself. I am so glad my Husband is away ‘ working out of the country’ and will be back in a months time or two. This ‘separation’ is helping me see that i can do without him. Although we agreed that we use this time to reflect on us and the Marriage i have instead been trying to disconnect from my husband emotionally and getting my house inorder. I dont trust him at all and although he calls me everyday i have build walls around my heart to protect my self. He has never really come out clean about the affair or even apologised for what he’s done.. i feel that this is a sign he could still be in contact with the OW. I’ve had so much peace since he left and even added some weight trully i can’t imagine going back to the same turmoil.
      There will be no second DD..i will make my finall decision once he comes back..i will be monitoring him like a hawk. It has taken so much to get where i am right now ( state of my mind) and i will not give him that power again, if i discover any contact with the OW that.. to me.. will be ‘last straw that broke the camels back’.
      The OW is someone i know very well, she has a reputation of loose morals and breaking up homes, my husband is very well aware of that fact. Our country is prevalent with HIV and i strongly feel that this affair is an indication that my husband has no respect for himself, his children, his family, his wife and worse he has no fear of God.

      • Katara

        Thx tryingtounderstand,

        I appreciate your comment as well. I have been feeling like getting away from him for a while. I just wanted to make the right choice…I didn’t want to go and push him closer to her but in the end it seemed like it didn’t matter, because he still kept going back to her. I also didn’t want to give up on my marrige, but right now I feel like a damn fool and like no matter what happenes I can no longer trust him. I think me leaving may be the best thing…the only problem is I have no where to go and noone to go to. I’m confused and don’t know where to start from. I don’t know where to go? I don’t even know how to leave, it sucks how he treated me this time. I really felt like a dog. I remember on mothers day this year he went to her moms house and I spent mothers day all alone, plus my birthday was two days before so my holiday was horrible. I felt so alone. I would have never treated him like that no matter how mad or how bad it got between the two of us, I feel he deserves more than that. Maybe that then was telling me how must he thought about me, maybe I really don’t mean that much to him…..oh and his mom and sister treat me like pure shit, I’m tired of that too!

    • Paula

      Katara, I’m really sorry for the pain you are experiencing. We all know that feeling. One of the things that gets me out of bed in the morning, and gives me the strength to continue living, is that I know this was sent to test me, I know how easy it is to feel self-pity, and that is normal, but, without wanting to seem too harsh, you are somehow allowing your in-laws to treat you that way. Please either stand up to them, or COMPLETELY ignore tham, they are harming you, by allowing you to feel awful about yourself. Mirroring, unfortunately, you are feeling how they want you to feel. I am also very alone, but I dig very deep, and find a way to cope, some days it’s pure hell, but I don’t have a choice, tomorrow will be a better day. I know you feel like you have nowhere to go, but if you need to go, you will find a place, this means actively looking (for rentals/ room mate ads, etc) as it won’t happen for you, or you MAKE him leave you in the home you currently live in, get him out if you can’t stand it anymore. I wish you well, and sorry if I’ve sounded harsh, but I believe in you, your strength is there, underneath all of the pain, believe me, and if it is the end of this relationship, or a way to a new beginning, try to look at it as an opportunity for a phoenix to rise from the ashes, take care 🙂

    • Katara

      Thank you ALL! I’m starting to feel so much better through your advice and I do plan on talking to a counselor about my issues. I think I am depressed and want this feeling to be over. I’m taking it one day at a time, and I do plan on doing some self imporvement exercises for myself first. I plan on losing the weight and taking better care of myself. I think I will remain calm no matter how hard it will be, plus I plan on finding some me time alone away from him. An activity that will get me out and away from him for a few hours, I’m thinking about going back to school. So again thank you all these ideas are just what I needed to get the ball rolling and helping me to get my house in order. I feel a little better!

    • STILL STRUGGLING

      Is there any certainty in anything? How do you know for certain?

      This is my story:
      Dday – 1/16/2011, I asked him to leave
      Separated until 5/29, moved back home
      Supposedly ended the relationship seeing the OW outside of work, but continued to see her at work (I found out she continued to go to his office after he moved back home). So he lied about ending contact completely.
      Now, he claims he sees the OW only when he has to since they work together.

      All the things he is doing:
      Watched the movie “Fireproof Your Marriage”
      Read, “Not Just Friends” and “Boundaries in Marriage”
      Answers just about all my questions regarding the emotional affair
      Accounts for any times he is going to be late coming home
      Continues with counseling
      Tells me when he sees the OW and when she tries to contact him
      Renewed our wedding vows 11/11 (his idea)
      Arranges all date nights
      Said he would contact the OW in my presence to end the affair correctly (after reading the book “Not Just Friends”, he realized he did not end the affair right, that is why the OW still tries to contact him)
      …and he says all the right things

      BUT, I don’t know for certain. I worry daily whether he is being truthful with me. His deceit goes deep, and to know he had this EA for over a year while I was battling breast cancer while caring for me and I never suspected.
      What do you all think?

      • ifeelsodumb

        Who knows, Still Struggling…who really can know? I’ve read on here so many times about CS doing all the right things…reading books, showing email accts. etc….only to be found out later that they never gave up the OW…so I think you take it day by day…At this time last year my H was involved in his EA…it started the end of Sept. and ended Jan 1st when I found out…I can’t seem to get out of this pit that I’m in…My H says the right things, brings home flowers and small gifts, but it means nothing to me, when I remember all the lies from last year…sigh….

    • STILL STRUGGLING

      Reading all the posted comments does not give me much hope. So how do you really know when they are doing all the right things?

    • Broken

      Still Struggling….I guess only you can be the judge if they are doing all the right things for you. No one else can answer that. As a BS we don’t trust anymore, we have shattered self esteem, total devastation of our emotions and we want it to all go away and be like we were “before” the affair. That will never happen. You have to decide what is right for you…what you are willing to put up with as far as your own emotions for the rest of your life. So many stories on this site of the CS doing all the right things and marriages better then before the affair…equally as many of the CS doing all the right things and is still cheating or CS doing none of the right things. It’s a hard road we have chosen….some days I think the “prize” isnt worth the effort as he is in reality a lier and a cheat. My husband IS doing all the right things and I am 15 months post dday. His little OW decided to contact him in Sept and sometime before that because he chose once again to keep a secret from me. I forgave him the first time and I had actually moved on and felt happy again. This time not so much. I am bitter and twice as angry even though he didnt contact her. It is the lying that I am angry about. This time I am no fool and this time I may not stay. I have realized I dont need him to be happy.

    • Notoverit

      Still Struggling. I agree with Ifeelsodumb. We can’t ever really know until it hits us right between the eyes. When I found out about the EA it hit me broadside. I thought we were happy, never argued, always together, always etc. Then wham, here it comes.

      It’s been a little over a year for me since D-day and I still check the phones, the computers, his closet, his car, his office at work. All the paranoid things to keep tabs on him. I know we are supposed to trust but I think that is a part of the rebuilding. If we find nothing, then we feel foolish and the trust grows – he’s telling the truth now. If you do find something, then you need to deal with the fact that he is just continuing with his mess. I have told my husband that if I find out anything else is ever going on – wait for the divorce papers. There will be no reconciliation and there will be no trying again on my part. I won’t go through this mess again. I would rather eat dirt.

      And as for the right things – that depends on what makes you happy. The EA was all about him. The recovery is ALL ABOUT YOU. I have told my H this and I firmly stand by it. If I get a weird question out of the blue about some insignificant thing the two of them did, I ask him. I can see he is really tired of all this but I remind him: you brought this in the marriage and your answer will help me heal. He takes a deep breath and then tries to answer me. So I guess the right thing is what gives you comfort and makes you feel safer. Just a thought.

      • D

        From my own experience, Notoverit, that deep breath he takes just might be the biggest indication of how meaningless it was. I spent the better part of the second year dredging things up. In hindsight it only made her more defensive and me more insecure. She said to me more than once that she only wants to talk about “Us.” If it doesn’t move our marriage forward, then it isn’t serving us.

        The past three or four months I’ve kept my curiosity to a minimum and it has greatly improved the relationship.

    • Swivet

      My wife is leaving for a hotel today because she can’t handle my anger. Yes I am angry and rightfully so! I am confused on how I feel about this, one part is extremely sad and the other is go ahead I am tired of your lies and lack of respect and understanding of how I feel. I will not be asking her to come back, if she wants to come back and work on our marriage there will be some things she needs to do before she comes home. The first one is contact the OM and tell him it is over while I’m on the other line listening. I have never felt such anger and humilation before. I actually wanted to hit my wife for the first time ever…I would never do that! It was a fleeting thought though. I want to thank all of you for sharing your stories and thoughts because I now know that I am not the only one, one of only a few men though, and time will heal the wounds with her or without her.

    • Dol

      So sorry you’re having to go through this, Swivet. Getting some space can help though – you’ll both have room to work out what you really want, and clearly see what’s important. Though, have you made clear to her what the consequences are if she continues any contact with the OM while she’s gone?

      I don’t know if there are so few men this happens to – I suspect not many of us would be willing to come to a site like this and share our thoughts (though that could be a an entirely unjustified sexist assumption about men’s general emotional literacy…!)

    • csb

      Swivet, let’s face it…we’ve had this bombshell dropped on us and when the CS chose to do this to us, they changed the playing field. I am constantly amazed at how my H can go about every day like nothing happened, while I know my life is changed forever. What did she say when you told her she needs to contact OM to end it?

      We all need to be reminded sometimes….it’s okay to be angry, hurt, etc. You didn’t ask for this, the CS has had time to “deal with it” since the day they started the EA/PA.

      I’m only 3 months since dday, so I’m really not in the best place right now, but wanted you to know we all care!

    • ifeelsodumb

      It does get better, csb…I’ve been pretty much alone in this journey for the last year. My H did read one book…but didn’t really let it impact our relationship very much…He is very non-confrontational…and THAT really has come out in the last year, since he’s left me do most of the work.
      We really started talking more in the last week…he had bad chest pains (I think stress related, since he holds everything in) last Monday night, and he said it got him thinking that he doesn’t want it to end this way…I was upset with him, we had argued AGAIN…and I was downstairs on the couch…I CANNOT sleep in the same room with him, when I’m angry…to see him sleep like a baby, man, that just ticks me off, lol!
      Anyway, he said that was sort of like an epiphany to him…he was scared and thought about dying, knowing this wasn’t resolved between us…. he said he prayed and made a promise to God that he would work on US more, and put me first! And he has, I can see a difference in him now, when I couldn’t before.
      I really do wish these CS would realize that all we want is to be reassured that they do love us and are truly remorseful…I can’t read my H, and so when he would say he was sorry, I didn’t know if he was telling the truth or not…so I would look at his actions, and that was telling me he wasn’t all that sorry, because he was doing nothing to help me heal.
      I’m hoping that in the coming weeks I can wean myself off of this site…that I will feel that my marriage is in a better place and I won’t need the support I find on here….we shall see….I do know that this is a process, and you can’t rush it. In a few yrs time, I’m hoping that I will be in a place to be able to help other BS who have been through this hell….SOMETHING good has to come out of this, right?

    • Swivet

      csb – She said that she did not want to call him and let him think there was more to their EA than what she perceives it to be. She finally did admit that she liked him (notice past tense, yeah right!) We talked this morning and I asked her if she has communicated with the OM and she said no, I have to believe that if I want to get past this. Part of me believes this but that damn nagging voice puts doubt. I am a week and half out from the fourth Dday (they continued to contact each other). She admitted this morning that she realizes how much destruction she has caused, it was all her fault, and she is extremely remorseful. This I beleive.

      Dol – thanks for the encouragement and I too am sorry for all the people that go through this, the pain is more than I could ever imagine! She and I agree that time apart will do us good and told her no contact with @sshole. You are a little bit farther out than my Dday, does each day get better or do you still have good and bad days. I am in a vicious cycle, every other day is a bad one, hence she had to leave the house. I truly understand why she did but it still makes me angry that she couldn’t stand me being angry but yet I have to deal with what she did. I told her this and she said she realizes this but if we are going to get past this that we need time to get both our minds right. Damn it! Like other people have posted why is it the honest spouse has to make the changes and the most effort!!!!

    • ifeelsodumb

      Swivet…Best book I’ve read so far…and my H just read it also, and he said it DID help open his eyes to how damaging an EA is…http://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Spouse-Heal-Affair/dp/145055332X
      It’s only 98 pages, a pretty easy read…If my H could read it in 2 weeks, ANYONE can!! LOL! He’s NOT a reader! Anyway, it pretty much covers A LOT of what we talk about on here…and like I said, my H said it really did help him to understand why I act the way I do, the “good” days…and the “pit” days…and also, what exactly I need from him!
      I wish I had gotten it sooner, but I was being “stubborn” and wouldn’t order it…I told my H about it, that it’s highly recommended on here, He told me to order it, and he’d read it…I told HIM to order it!! LOL! A bit of tug of war going on, but darn it, I was soooo over ordering AND reading all the books! So he finally asked me where he could find it, and he ordered it. And then read it~GASP~LOL!!
      My sense of humor is back…so I MUST be doing better!
      Anyway, another interesting thing my H told me recently is that I forgave him to soon the last time…My H had an EA, maybe PA, (who can know? He says it wasn’t but again..I wasn’t there!) 24 yrs ago, while overseas in the military,,,and I forgave him after I went to counseling and was put on anti depression meds…I totally forgave AND forgot!!!
      In fact, I never even thought about the OTHER EA when I found out about this one! It was months later before I even thought about it! And the sad thing…My H NEVER even thought about the pain he caused me 24 yrs ago when he started this EA….he didn’t suffer any consequences from the first affair…so why should he? So I’m a FIRM believer that the CS HAS to see AND feel the pain they have caused!! And also the anger!! If you haven’t already read this, then this might help explain what you are feeling… https://www.emotionalaffair.org/the-four-stages-of-healing-after-an-affair/ Read this blog, best thing I did! It’s helped me to know I’m not alone!!

    • Swivet

      ifeelsodumb – my wife actually ordered that book between the 1st and 2nd D day without me knowing it. I ordered it a couple of days ago and read it within 30 minutes and you are correct best book ever. I was feeling everything in that book. I told my wife to read the book and that is when she told me she already read the book, to my surprise! I asked her what she thought and her statement was even more of a shock, “that is one persons opinion and that it may not work for everyone. ” Reading many post I have come to realize that the CS may not “get it” until months down the road. I know my wife will “get it” because she is actually a very good person, I just wish she would get it NOW!! As I posted in another blog my wife will soon realize my attitude toward us and myself has changed. She has faced my anger, she is in a hotel now by her choice because of my anger. I beleive it was D who posted about having a “safe” environment at home and that made me think. I realized my anger was not helping either of us, I was not abusive, just a lot of yelling on my part. I believe that she has seen and felt my pain, I am waiting for her to help me heal.
      I am truly sorry to hear that you have gone through this twice!

    • ifeelsodumb

      You’re right, when the CS is in the fog, they think only of themselves! My 1 yr DDay was this past weekend, and I’m better than I thought I’d be…but it’s because my H finally started talking with me. I still have moments of anger, not yelling shouting kind of anger, though that DOES happen, sometimes…but anger because at this point in our lives, we shouldn’t be dealing with this!
      Hmmm, after reading that, I guess I should say that there is NO good time to be dealing with this…but after being married over 26 yrs, I mean, come on!! Either you’re a mature adult or you’re not!
      You know, the first EA wasn’t as bad as this…yes, I hurt, yes, I had to go to counseling, but I recovered so much faster! I think the difference was that we had only been married for a couple of years, didn’t have all the history we do now, 26 yrs married, four children, a happy family life, a church ministry that we enjoy, etc…AND the EA then wasn’t with an old GF AND didn’t have the help of two of his family members!! I was betrayed by him AND them!! That HURT!
      My H understands now that the 3rd time WON’T be the charm…we are finished if this every happens again…I just cannot and will not do this anymore!

    • Fonnel

      I am currently struggling with this reality. My H has been on and off with the OW since I discovered the affair in May. It seems that it has been a monthly DDay for me, since. He commits to the marriage and within 4-6 weeks I sense something is not right and discover that they are on again! Most recenlty, I spooked called him on his work phone and had her number appear. He answered the call!!! Albeit professionally, he still answered. I didnt speak when I called. I called a second time. Same thing. I called him on his personal cell as myself and he didnt not say a word about the calls!! This is concerning because we agreed on complete transparency and he has failed….again. I am so livid because he called our entire families to apologize for the affair ( I had filed for divorce after taking him back a number of times). Yet, withing weeks he was speaking to her. He said he felt responsible and guilty for her current marriage issues. Really? He wanted to fix it for her? Really? You cant fix our marriage but you want to fix hers? By the way, this same woman has spoken to me on the phone and by text numerous times to reveal some very disturbing detail about the affair, she has totally mistreated me, lied to him and yet, he goes back to fix it! So, back to the calls. he says he didnt realize it was her calling. I dont see how that is possible since the first thing one does when a phone rings is look who is calling. Right? Not to mention, he told me he called his coworker following the two spoof calls I made to check that his phone was working because he had recieved those two calls with no response on the other end. Finally, I called a third time with the OW number and this time I engaged him. I just said “hey” to which he responded “hey, What’s going on?” The phone cut out as the spoof only gives you a couple of minutes of air time. Of course, I followed up as myself and questioned him inside and out but he still holds that he didnt know it was her. I called him while we were both home that evening and handed him the phone. The first thing he did, was to look who was calling. So, I am in a pickle. I guess I proved that he still cant be trusted. We are going to counseling this weekend and the counselor is aware of these developments and plans to address it with us. Any thoughts! Cheaters?

    • Broken

      What I want to know how to do a spoof call.

    • theresa

      think of how you feel right now! You can’t guarantee that you will never feel this way again. But you CAN guarantee that it will not be because of him. But oh what a painful step it is.

    • Fonnel

      Google free spoof call. U are usually limited time & tries if its free. U can always pay for a services which is unlimited. The reality though is u can probably only use this once as a “gotcha.”

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